DOD302: Viced Rhino Transed All the Kids

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's that's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired is the only part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Viced: To Dear Old Dads, the podcast where Vice Rhino sucks at being Tom. Hey,

0:00:33 Thomas: On tom do we get eli do we get tom back yay

0:00:35 Eli: Sounds like oh tom's okay everybody he's here yeah your

0:00:37 Thomas: Tom tom

0:00:39 Viced: Everybody, my spine goblin is at work today.

0:00:43 Eli: Spine goblin is at work today here's the thing that's weird about this bit pretty sick I he was just getting back surgery and in a tremendous amount of pain there was nothing funnier than this blah blah blah I'm loving it but he's pretty sick and I'm I'm just, I'm me tell you what my greatest fear is. My greatest fear is that Tom will die and, don't interrupt, people will be mad at me for my great jokes. That's, I my worst nightmare is that I make such amazing jokes and then other people aren't awesome about them.

0:00:46 Thomas: Man that's a good tom he's dead yeah yeah yeah it's pretty bad oh man no

0:01:22 Viced: My YouTube channel gets canceled over this intro.

0:01:24 Thomas: Was right it was alvise rhino's fault fuck god here we were trying to be be respectful of our dying co -host

0:01:26 Eli: Like, was all Vice Rhino. He came on to, for a month, we did a month of episodes where every month we logged on and all the empathy and the heart and the eye of the tiger and the the am a firework and all you're gonna be is mean is then vice was on and he we edited it out but he would be like you have to fucking rip on tom super hard and we are afraid we are scared to say no because

0:01:52 Viced: Literally just heard the citation needed intro where Cecil sends Tom to a farm upstate. Date by

0:01:57 Eli: Yeah exactly that was that's

0:01:58 Thomas: Using my joke that I use on this fucking show god damn it oh maybe mine didn't come out yet that's a problem too we're so ahead in these recordings sometimes that we don't know whether tom's dead or not just or okay here's the thing assume that whatever our joke is it was totally appropriate and and even for whatever the status of Tom was at that time

0:02:00 Eli: Right fucking stealer thief damn it tom might be better yeah also please assume that about the first 100 episodes of all the podcasts I've ever been on I you're gonna have to go back a while for some of them but when you You consider that the first episode of GAM was recorded in 1492? Pretty woke. But gentlemen, do you know the only thing worse than a recorded history of being wildly problematic? Why, it's the auto ads. The auto ads busting into your podcast experience the way that misfortune busts into Tom's spinal health, it turns out. But you can make those all go away. Vice, do know how people can make the auto adds go away? Have you ever heard about this have you seen this no

0:02:24 Viced: Going to patreon .com slash dear old dads and donating as little as fucked patreon's changing their thing now isn't it

0:03:09 Eli: Don't tell them about that fuck yeah as little as a dollar an episode it's still a dollar and episode it just a different shape over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dad's monthly bonus episodes support tom's medical recovery and yeah so

0:03:25 Viced: Vice rhino into eli's impression of tom rip into it

0:03:30 Thomas: This is too good should

0:03:39 Eli: So first of all I want to say something now this is a little behind the scenes I

0:03:43 Thomas: We introduce our guest to anyone who doesn't know okay

0:03:46 Eli: Don't know about vice rhino what are you doing here that's my question but yes we are joined today by youtuber podcaster author and father feist rhino feist welcome you are working on one right now

0:03:56 Viced: Author did I write a book sure we'll go with that I

0:04:05 Eli: You don't have a book up top got a book up top be it is there's that book there's that romanticy it

0:04:07 Viced: Not know I lack the organizational organizational capacity to write one speaking

0:04:15 Thomas: All So here's, here's the thing. Um, when Eli decides a biographical fact about you, you just have to go with it, man. It doesn't, it's never, yeah. I've, I live in LA apparently.

0:04:23 Viced: Of how are your feet thomas

0:04:25 Thomas: Yeah. I livein LA, I guess. I still, that one was for like 10 years.

0:04:22 Eli: Kind of becomes true he lives in la he doesn't have feet it's

0:04:31 Thomas: To be fair, LA is all of California. You know, it was the same one place.

0:04:31 Eli: Tough out there yeah it's the same it's all the same state everyone believes the same things there suffice thanks so much for coming on the show what

0:04:41 Viced: I'm I'm happy to be here not happy about the circumstances

0:04:45 Eli: You punctured tom's spine and inserted a hot dog sized tumor so that you could be here so it's interesting to hear you say that yeah that's

0:04:55 Viced: I I heard that you guys needed a third host that can actually join you and suck the dick corner so

0:04:59 Eli: Right sucked a dick corner sucked a deck corner now we're just now the pod is sucked a dead corner feels weird

0:05:01 Thomas: Bringing that back. I

0:05:07 Viced: Yeah thanks renaming it from dear old dads to suck the dick corner that's

0:05:11 Eli: True I actually I just checked itunes there's a lot of podcasts already called of that. So we're going to, we're keep our branding consistent. So, uh, vice, as I said in the intro, you are a dad. Tell us a little about your parentaling situation.

0:05:26 Viced: I had three kids with my wife um

0:05:29 Eli: Like one of them's dead. I need you to know.

0:05:29 Thomas: Was going to say this is not a good start.

0:05:31 Viced: My wife is dead

0:05:32 Eli: Yeah, no, I know. But it sounds like one of the kids is that is a, for sure. My kid is dead set up.

0:05:38 Thomas: Yeah, that was like I can't remember where I left them.

0:05:41 Viced: Thing that was coming next was then I had a vasectomy because three was enough now I'm with my current partner who has two more so I have five kids it's a lot

0:05:44 Thomas: Gotcha. Hey, wow.

0:05:45 Eli: So tom had two kids vasectomy right bought two kids in the in the spouse market ended up with four you ended up mit five so if you think about it this is kind of a tom upgrade um

0:06:03 Thomas: Yeah it's the next evolution of tom oh

0:06:05 Eli: Uh old are the various children's oh

0:06:09 Viced: Her two are seven and eight and mine are 13 15 and 17 nope

0:06:14 Eli: God not a fucking single easy age among them that's like someone being like let's see I moved from iran to gaza to the south sudan and then to the bottom of the ocean yeah

0:06:26 Thomas: Ukraine ukraine yeah oh

0:06:29 Viced: Want to hear about the diagnoses they got because

0:06:31 Eli: Yeah no run us through the diagnoses

0:06:31 Thomas: Ding ding ding here we go the game show

0:06:34 Viced: Got autism we've Got ADHD we've GOT OCD we've GOT ODD we've GOT GAD they just stole the alphabet

0:06:38 Thomas: Wait what's

0:06:42 Eli: I don't know what odd and gad are so you're gonna have to fill us in uh

0:06:42 Thomas: Gad yeah oh

0:06:46 Viced: Defiant disorder and general general anxiety disorder.

0:06:46 Thomas: I know that one okay yeah oh boy that's

0:06:51 Viced: And also there's a bunch of LGBTQ. So they just, they just want the whole alphabet to themselves.

0:06:55 Eli: Kids stealing all the letters

0:06:55 Thomas: Fun so how do you have any time to to do anything other than manage all that. Cause I've, I've found that just, just the handful of possible diagnoses that my kids have. It's just, it's just a lot, man. It'S a lot.

0:07:10 Viced: Uh, yeah. So I had therapy this morning about that because I don't.

0:07:17 Thomas: Well, that, and the therapist has some more letters for you. Probably. They're probably an M.

0:07:21 Eli: No the therapist is gonna add some in there that's

0:07:24 Viced: No, I, I got my own letters and my kids to share.

0:07:25 Eli: Borrowing letters from the kids now it's a whole thing yes exactly um and you're full -time youtuber right yeah uh is your partner

0:07:35 Viced: She is a therapist. Um. And so, so the reason we all go to therapy is so that she she doesn't have to work when she's at home.

0:07:42 Eli: Exactly it's the shoemakers kids go barefoot situation I understand yeah

0:07:46 Thomas: That's one of like the classic Seinfeld where he's dating a masseuse and he's trying to get her to give him a massage and she just never will is it your partner like I'm not saying anything insightful in here at home no insight she's

0:07:59 Eli: It's a great question.

0:08:00 Viced: Is she's actually really, really great. And like, if she notices that there's something wrong with me, she will like sit down and poke me out of it. And I'm, I'm sitting there like, no, I have to protect you because you do this as a job. So I need to give you time off, but

0:08:13 Thomas: Like I will here is my venmo though I will I will accept

0:08:15 Eli: Let let me ask you a question because I have found that, and this would suck because you would have to be the shitty one in this situation, but I'll explain. So every therapist I know is in the worst possible relationship because, and I've talked about this on the show, they have to cultivate this thing of nonjudgment and they're super excited about it. It's the only thing you have to learn when you're a therapist. Everything Everything else is just like read a book. And so they all fucking they get such a hard on for non -judgment that then they tell you they'll be like, yeah, well, you know, Brad hasn't had a job for 11 years and he is punching the walls less than he was. And we're really proud of him for that. And you have to be like this is my question.

0:08:54 Viced: Saying I suck.

0:08:56 Thomas: Asking if you suck his question

0:08:57 Eli: When you suck, does she notice?

0:08:58 Thomas: Is

0:09:02 Viced: She will point out when I suck she she is good about that yeah um

0:09:04 Thomas: Good be

0:09:05 Eli: Now this is another question I have because all my therapist uh they're fucking narcs and they suck and so I'll be like who's your worst client and they'll belike my clients aren't the worst everyone's on a journey of growth and I'm like oh you're so fun to talk to uh does she ever like this dude got fucked by his priest like 40 years ago and he won't shut up up about it do you ever get those

0:09:29 Viced: I am not I I'm going to I'm going to plead the canadian version of the fifth which is actually the 13th I

0:09:30 Thomas: Careful yeah yeah I

0:09:32 Eli: Should your wife lose her job is what we're saying get your wife fired from her job right now is

0:09:37 Thomas: Think eli's question is how good is that youtube gig is is that

0:09:42 Viced: I I am canadian and in canada we cannot be compelled to testify against our spouses so in

0:09:48 Eli: That is that true in america should

0:09:51 Viced: America I feel like it would just be covered by the fifth but okay

0:09:53 Thomas: True in true no it's it's a specific spousal privilege because it also applies to civil stuff so the fifth doesn't apply to civil stuff yes it absolutely should would question if you were just questioning Eli just if you just happened to just happened to be in like a lawsuit with your business partners um would you think it would be great if discovery could reach all your conversations with Anna about those podcasters would that be would that'd be good yeah yeah there's a reason we have that privilege

0:09:56 Viced: Well ah yeah yes

0:09:59 Eli: That exist okay oh no that'd probably be fucking bad okay but

0:10:23 Viced: Suddenly he texts his wife over signal with disappearing messages

0:10:28 Eli: But that's entirely based on what a piece of shit that I am that's got nothing to do with

0:10:32 Thomas: Well lots of people are pieces of shit and it is our god -given american right to be a piece of shit to your wife yep

0:10:35 Eli: Theoretical I guess that might be it right is the core of it is like you should have one person that is um I forget who the comedian is um the one who I don't like very much so I don't feel heartbroken that I'm not no no no you're much funnier than him no well he's much more successful than us we what a get we actually asked him to come on he said no then we asked you guys just so you know that

0:10:52 Thomas: Me no I'm just kidding yeah david's oh oh man yeah yeah sorry yeah you You were second pick after.

0:10:55 Viced: Smalley so didn'' t even know that he did live comedy until you guys mentioned it and then I went and looked up one of his videos and he spent like Like 10 minutes on a bit where he was miming fucking a porn star and he was like miming it through the whole thing. I'm just like, what is

0:11:12 Thomas: My God. That's so funny. See, here's the thing, though. That's a lot of fun. That's funny, though, that's

0:11:23 Eli: Sounds pretty good I

0:11:24 Thomas: Yeah. See, I don't think you understand comedy.

0:11:26 Eli: Think we should have to watch the bit I think we gotta appreciate it until we really there

0:11:30 Viced: It? Was one of those things where like, it could have been funny, but it just it went on for too long to be funny. Like it didn't quite do the loop back around to funny again. End so

0:11:37 Eli: You go there

0:11:41 Thomas: It like so what are some of the challenges what is so because you know asking for us friends asking for the friends and the friends are Eli and I how how's it go as they they get older you know what are Some kind of the challenge is and pitfalls there

0:11:53 Eli: I'm especially interested in ODD because I know that as ODD gets older it can be easier to deal with but also harder to deal with because you become self -aware of it and so then it's like am I actually dealing with an injustice or am I so how old is your ODD and when and are they dealing with that yeah

0:12:11 Viced: Odd child is seven and they are dealing with that by doing things like running away from school and

0:12:16 Eli: Yeah it's that's still very young to be dealing an adult friend who has odd and has very specific language around when she has episodes where she'll be like hey just you know I'm feeling really attacked by this um that might not necessarily be valid so I just wanted to say like this is how I'm feelin' right now and I think I should take a step back from this and what's crazy is like she's a pretty confrontational person and that is different than and understanding that you have ODD and that you need to take a step back and think about it. And because I suck, which is very funny, she will occasionally say something like that to me, take a step back, talk to friends, talk therapist, and then be like, we've all come to the conclusion you suck. And I'm like, yeah, no, that's fair. Yeah, absolutely. That was on the yeah, because thing is like a lot of people who don't suck when someone who has ODD confronts them about something or you know has an incident right and talks to them about something people's tendency is just to apologize and be like oh my gosh I'm so sorry I didn't mean it that way which can make the condition worse and so she has sort of learned to couch

0:12:58 Thomas: Out of eight scientists agree you uh you suck oh Oh really?

0:13:19 Eli: Her language around yeah because look when when we've all been around people who are fucking rude and insane to other people and the the natural inclination for people when you're around that person is to go oh I'm sorry you're reacting so big right now it must be justified right and so one of the skills that she has had to learn is to be like hey this might be an overreaction but I want to share how I'm feeling um I can't not share how I'm feeling but yeah seven seven's fucking young

0:13:46 Thomas: I was curious about that. So it makes it worse though for, so it like, I just wasn't sure if there, yeah. Okay.

0:13:52 Viced: No it it is rough um bedtime right now is the big one because uh we try to get them in bed for eight but recently they've been staying up till 10 o 'clock screaming about how bedtime is boring because the odd kid also has adhd and cannot sit still yeah

0:14:07 Thomas: That's commitment to a bit though. If you're screaming for two hours, that bedtime is boring. I kind of think you've proven the point, you know, like, wow, I guess you're right.

0:14:14 Eli: You've you've kept it have

0:14:15 Thomas: Like Jesus.

0:14:15 Viced: I mean bedtime is boring it's supposed to be boring I

0:14:19 Eli: You gotten the completely unhelpful unhelpfulness advice yet which I love uh

0:14:25 Viced: Always get unhelpful advice but go on

0:14:27 Eli: So one of the things that I love is when you have a neurodivergent kid and I've talked about this there's like very good advice for neurotypical kids that doesn't help neurod divergent kids at all so people will be like how about a warm bath before bed and you're like how could I put you in a warm path and I hold your head under forever how about that yeah

0:14:45 Thomas: Man.

0:14:47 Viced: No so the thing that I normally get is um I'm convinced that at least two of the kids have ARFID. And it's getting them to eat. And whenever I've mentioned it in any sort of public setting, you always get a million people being like, oh, no, you just sit them down and tell them that's what's for dinner. And then if they don't eat it, they go hungry. And I was like, okay, but then my kids will literally starve to death.

0:14:53 Thomas: Are Tom.

0:15:09 Eli: Yeah I've literally mentioned that on the show before like that's it again Again, good not you have to stay in the chair or any of the horrible torture stuff we went through, but like this is dinner and this is what we have to eat. There will be other foods available later, but this is, dinner is great advice for a neurotypical kid and terrible advice for under a divergent child.

0:15:30 Viced: Yeah. And my diet kind of suffers as a a result because now I'm just making chicken fingers all the time instead

0:15:36 Eli: You're short order cooking it.

0:15:37 Thomas: Wow yeah I'm

0:15:38 Viced: Want to actually eat well I have to make three dinners because on top of them there's also a vegetarian in the house

0:15:45 Eli: Would honestly, I would just tell the vid and I say this as a vegan. So feel free to play them this clip. They've got to stop. They got to cut it out. I'm so sorry. I absolutely want to support you in your journey I got some Peter Singer books don't worry they hold up great definitely read the last chapter but it's too hard at home right now I need you to eat whatever daddy's eating yeah

0:16:04 Viced: The the vegetarian is the 17 year old so there is a certain amount of um there are vegetarian options available in the house we will not always cook them for you so you can prepare it yourself self.

0:16:14 Eli: Never

0:16:15 Thomas: My favorite thing is phoebe keeps giving gestures toward being a vegetarian because because you know we are and she'll be like I I want to not eat animals and then she'll she'll be like, wait, is, you an animal or, you know, something like that. We'll be like, yeah. She's like, oh, nevermind. It's basically like she keeps trying. She's like, Oh, I want to, yeah, that's good. I like that in principle. And then she'll remember like what meat is. And she's like oh, but I have to eat that though. I like that a lot.

0:16:28 Eli: Mind yeah I don't want to do that no but I want that one that one's for me please and thank you yeah I have a friend who was just involved very publicly in a thing uh veganism thing

0:16:49 Thomas: Public veganism thing, huh? You know that veganism thing you heard about?

0:16:55 Eli: So

0:16:56 Viced: A vegan hot dog eating contest.

0:16:59 Eli: What I can say without fucking you and poor vice and thomas have been very patient because I just talked for like three and a half minutes and then had to call all backsies. Cause I realized they couldn't, here's what I can absolutely say. I, I was in college and then a little bit after college, I was in PETA. Um, like to think I was in PETa when it didn't suck. I'm sure it probably sucked in some ways back then, but my sort of group within the PETA group is, created the fast food guides. That was like our big thing. Is we created like vegan guide to fast food restaurants, which is still on the PETA website and was incredibly popular, uh, really good feedback, got a bunch of members. It was sort of, and then there's a bunch OF drama, which I won't bore you all with about why that stopped being the focus. Um, but she's, she's still in it. Um. So we ended up having this conversation about veganism, um, we were talking about advocacy and I explained how I still sort of do that stuff. Uh, she was explaining how she sort of does that stuff And what was interesting is we we were having the conversation about like, what do you encourage people towards making ethical food choices when they hit that stumbling block? Right. When the stumbling block is like, I, could be vegan except if, for cheese, I can be vegan except for eggs. And she was telling me about this answer. And I think I've talked about it before, but she's just sort of put it so well, which is like by all means be vegan except for cheese

0:18:17 Eli: Right

0:18:17 Thomas: I talk about this all the time.

0:18:18 Eli: Yeah okay cool all right had I not heard it in a while and it was just I tend to get very like all or nothing in my head and so I was very impressed by that nothing

0:18:22 Thomas: It's been a while. Yeah Actually, Carrie Poppy was, uh, you know, um, we went to college together and she told me that a lot, like a long ass time ago, probably long before I was thinking of being a vegetarian at all. Um, I mean, I've never like loved meat really. I enjoy the taste of it, but I've never liked the idea of eating animals, but I wouldn't really think about it. And then she said that same thing where she's like, hey, if you want to just not eat meat on, you know, she wasn't talking about me. She was just like talking about in general, some some, arguments she was having or some conversations she was Having rather. And she's Like, yeah, if if YOU You just don't eat meat on weekends or vice versa, it's like that's better than well, it's also like if you think about mathematically with how many people there are, that's like out of two out of every seven people going vegetarian or something. Thing. Like it doesn't matter that it's spread around the course of different people. It's the amount that's happening, like is going to be reduced. And then it's like, yeah, that's a good point. Cause I do that a little bit too. I I think for me, that'S a bit of an ADHD coping thing where, I have adhd and I often can get really obsessed with like new you know whatever it is a new obsession and whatever I have a I very much have like a cold turkey mindset where I'm like I need to be done like I did I ever tell you guys about out maybe I did he like can't remember but when I was playing pokemon go too much like it was years ago I was like tried to pick it up because of the pandemic you know I was Like oh it'll be a good way to walk around and like actually get out and then what happened was like I'm just and like I I try to play everything as hard as I can you know like I'm always like oh I gotta maximize the score and so like I started just playing it a bunch and then I found that all the grown -ass adults who are super serious about this game game they just drive around place to place to get like the best pokemon or whatever and then I was doing that for a bit and I was like wait what am I doing because

0:20:11 Thomas: I got obsessed with like oh yeah there's a new oh this this one is so fucking good I gotta get this one you know they had those days that have the different ones I don't know it's been forever and and then I realized like oh wait this is nothing like I'm just driving around with my phone like trying to get invisible visible phone points oh

0:20:26 Eli: See what I love is that anna gets super into stuff like that like she gets hyper fixated on stuff but she has no temptation to min max because fuck everybody else right go was the case right like she got super into pokemon go I remember at one point because we went to asia when it was super popular so she had like a bunch of the pokemon go pokemon from asia as well but what was amazing is when she would like find out that everyone else was driving around she'd be like nah I'm just gonna do my walk and so she'd just be fucking she'd have a level 1 billion squirtle on the church next to our house and just a bunch of nine -year -olds weeping as they walked by squirtled kill squirtl bombed my village and I didn't really had those how and a squirrel has drones fuck sure

0:21:16 Viced: My partner does something similar with um like candy crush or whatever she refuses to use anything that the company will charge money for so she will be on the same level of candy crush for like a month and actually get mad at me like occasionally I'll like reach over and poke one of the power -ups on her phone to be like no no it's not beating it if I cheat

0:21:33 Eli: So never mind hey let let's jump back to you're a piece of shit the if she doesn't put the phone down and scissor kick you in the chest leaving a viced rhino shaped hole I can't if

0:21:38 Thomas: That's abusive yeah that because she wears vice rhino shoes I'm trying to figure out how that works oh

0:21:50 Eli: Because he goes flying back through the wall. And that's the vice.

0:21:53 Thomas: In the wall okay I thought this holes was in his chest I wasn't okay oh gotcha thanks for clearing that up I

0:21:56 Eli: Sorry. I should have completed. Yeah. There's literally something. There's really nothing I could do. A I'm little afraid at the mental image of touching my wife's iPhone games.

0:22:05 Thomas: Know that just that that was triggering what

0:22:06 Eli: Shakes me to my core.

0:22:08 Viced: She gave me the pin to her phone on our third date so

0:22:11 Thomas: That's a okay like for a reason like a specific reason or just like

0:22:15 Viced: She was driving somewhere and she needed to text someone or something

0:22:17 Thomas: Yeah because that would have been really fucking weird if you're like here

0:22:20 Eli: She should just text and drive at the same time. Has she not texted and driven at the sametime? It's the best. You can get a lot of stuff done because the road's there it's fine yeah

0:22:29 Viced: Yeah no so she she's always been super open about like phone and letting me do whatever like she doesn't care about phone privacy or whatever so it's it's always felt like I'm hiding things from her when I am not comfortable with her just going through my phone uh but she she just laughs about it well

0:22:42 Thomas: Man that's

0:22:45 Eli: So you're not comfortable with her going through your phone okay

0:22:46 Thomas: So interesting yeah

0:22:48 Viced: I am now but like when date three no

0:22:51 Thomas: Yeah that's it for sure yeah that'S WHAT I WAS SAYING IT WOULD BEEN SO FUNNY IF THAT HAD BEEN LIKE A BIG LIKE

0:22:51 Eli: Date three would have a hundred percent been a no but we've talked about the the of having a quick snoop I

0:22:59 Viced: No I the only time I've ever actually snooped in her phone was um I forget exactly what it was for but it was something it was christmas present related and so I needed one one of her friends phone numbers so I can text them and

0:23:10 Eli: You know what that makes me think I haven't had a snoop in a while I would love a snooper a nice refreshing snoop on my wife's phone it's been forever sure

0:23:19 Viced: Tells me all the pta drama anyway so I

0:23:22 Eli: Yeah no it's not about trying to find your again the The problem is like everyone else who's doing a snoop is looking for things. I don't give a fuck about, I want to be like, are how the vibes in her, uh, chats? Right. Can I also say this again? Maybe this is just me. You have a group chat that has like a disgusting name full of friends who say disgusting things.

0:23:41 Thomas: THAT'S JUST YOU

0:23:42 Viced: Would have to have friends first

0:23:44 Eli: Okay. Heart that I don'T KNOW WHICH OF THOSE MADE ME SADDER.

0:23:45 Thomas: UP TOP VICE Rhino. Woo.

0:23:48 Eli: You guys should start one together. Start a, start a group thread. That's just this well

0:23:48 Thomas: Fuck Eli. Yeah. Nah, that would require having friends. No, thanks.

0:23:54 Viced: Then so I have think I have enough insight into thomas to know that both of us if we were to do that would then forget that we were in and it would just never be used.

0:24:02 Thomas: Have an allergy to group chats. We saw it this, just this very morning, this morning, just this various morning. Anyway, just as very morning. If there's a group chat, I have a thing mentally where I'm like, oh, well that's whatever the message was in it it was probably for the other people who aren't me like I just am like yeah it's probably they'll figure it out that you know it's like it's it's right for them and then I just don't read it so tom died that's I always read tom because they're funny that don't get me wrong these are these are more about normies so like if it's a normie group chat I'm I have group chats I hope no one listens to this I've got group chats with friends mutual friends of lydia and I I I don't know that I've ever read like I just fucking skip through them I don't I just can't do it

0:24:45 Eli: A normie there's nothing worse in the world than a normy group chat thread because you can't make a joke can't made a joke this is not for jokes this is for communicating how we're all getting to the bachelor party and you can mention that greg is fat even once there's no you don't even get one and if you ask if you say hey hey, it was really nice meeting you all this morning. I noticed that Greg is really fat. Can I make jokes about it a couple of times?

0:24:50 Thomas: All right well that's not really do you ever feel like when Eli co -signs your point you got to be like actually I don'T that's NOT

0:25:14 Viced: Take

0:25:18 Eli: Actually, that had nothing to do. I'm your Peter Singer.

0:25:20 Viced: It back.

0:25:23 Eli: Except they're all the last chapter. I was talking about the chats is that when I have a snoop on my wife's phone, one of the most upsetting things is her group chats are so mild and supportive and wonderful they make me doubt myself because all of my group chats and look common denominator me right but all my group chats are called like kill them again you a hundred and it's just the worst things anyone could say or should say or it's possible to say and And hers are called like sexy mamas. And it's like her and mom friends being photos and being like you are so strong. And I'm like, do I need this?

0:25:47 Thomas: He's getting there

0:26:14 Eli: Am I lacking this? Then I also try to think about what it would be like to say a positive thing for once in my life. And I get hives. I feel I feel a panic. I don't know what a panic attack feels like. But I imagine it's how I feel imagining saying a nice thing ever in my whole life. Once.

0:26:14 Thomas: Yeah Yeah.

0:26:31 Viced: The main group chat that I take part in is the YouTuber friends that I have. And it's, don't even remember why it's called this, but it's called the, not the anti -theism support group.

0:26:42 Eli: Nice. Raunchy? Is that dark? That feels like that could be dark. No, it's nice and supportive.

0:26:45 Viced: That's I I feel like that's just somebody made a joke about anti

0:26:48 Eli: I mean the chat. Is the chat raunchly and dark?

0:26:51 Viced: Can't be we we uh we did we we may have sent some uh happy kirkmas means memes uh

0:26:52 Eli: This is what I'm talking about. Yeah. Kirkmas was a nice exception. I felt like everybody was me on Kirkmas.

0:27:02 Viced: There's one that has uh lady in the white house talking to cash patel jd vance and donald trump where she says I think I'm going to have to put the dog down she had a minor incident on the couch cash patel says did you say dog jd vance says did you say couch and donald trump says did you say minor so stuff like that

0:27:18 Eli: Yeah. Yeah it's

0:27:20 Thomas: Well, I got to ask back on the parenting thing, you know, because it's sort of a little bit what the show is. No, I'm curious what what the signs are or things that come up with ODD is, because we were sort of a littlebit worried about that with one of our kids, but but probably not like a full on thing. What are like some of the signs and what are the some ofthe like coping mechanisms for that? Like or how do you deal with it as a parent?

0:27:46 Viced: So it can be tough is far as warning signs go it's like very they make themselves very vocally known that they oppose everything that you want them to do ever um

0:27:56 Thomas: Is it like everything all day long, all the time? Or is it like coming phases?

0:28:00 Viced: That they don't already want to if I say hey why don't you go play on your tablet they'll probably be fine with that um if it's okay it's time to like you know I gave you a 10 minute warning so it is time to put the tablet down and go to school then it's like ah that's not fair it sucks I don't want to do that yeah you guys get to do what you want all that and so it's like a big overblown reaction to just it like immediately yes so

0:28:21 Thomas: It's like zero to 11 right away. Yeah. How But do you separate the normal kidness of that? Like, when do you start to think it's just a matter of degree?

0:28:32 Viced: Here's the thing it was was actually really weird for me because I went from my three kids are all fairly I hesitate to use the word but compliant like they've always been good about you ask them to do a thing and they do the thing um they don't do it well that's another conversation but um yeah no like

0:28:46 Thomas: Gotcha. So they're just following orders. They're not doing like a good job at the Holocaust, but they are. They're just falling orders.

0:28:59 Viced: Two out of three of them, when it's their turn to wash the dishes, it's like, okay, well now that it's morning I'm gonna put all the clean dishes that you washed back in the dirty pile because you gotta do it again. Um, but uh yeah, no, so going from that to her, two kids are, let's say, high spirited, and uh, like even the one that does not have ODD has always struck me as being very defiant.

0:29:23 Thomas: Gotcha. Gotcha.

0:29:23 Viced: So so my brain might not be calibrated right based on my kids being oddballs. Yeah.

0:29:24 Thomas: So it's, so you inherited that particular situation. Gotcha. Oh, oh, so that made it even harder where it's like, you're used to, you

0:29:33 Viced: Well, so I, I came in when they wouldn't eat dinner, I did the thing where it's like, well, just that's what's for dinner so just tell them that, and then if they don't eat it they go hungry, like I did that because my kids will eat whatever you put in front of them, for the vegetarian. Um,

0:29:47 Thomas: So, was already like a known kind of thing that, that you, that was being dealt with by the time you were in the picture there? It's not like a, oh

0:29:55 Viced: Was not diagnosed it was They, they were, I, I came in the picture while they were, I think, three, so they're young enough that it's like that's a toddler having a tantrum. Um but it just never stopped there.

0:30:07 Thomas: Anything they, they don't want to do? Or does it have different, like, does it come and go degrees? Or is it just like anytime there's something they don't want already?

0:30:16 Viced: Are different levels. There, there, there are things that they know, it is like school. They will not generally put up a big fuss about going to school. There are often little fights in the morning or whatever, but it's not usually a big production. Whereas, they're also in tutoring. Now they know that sometimes they can miss tutoring and we can reschedule tutoring or whatever. So because they know that there's more flexibility there, they will be more, um, what's the, in their uh opposition to it, and I, not trying to suggest that this is a conscious thought process that they're having, it's just that it's kind of um

0:30:50 Thomas: Yeah. Kids do this. They figure everything out. Raptors testing the fences, testing the system for weaknesses systematically.

0:30:52 Viced: They're little manipulative bastards

0:30:55 Eli: Well Also the nature of like their whole life, and I think about this a lot, I know it's not as true anymore, but like when you're a little kid, especially when you're a toddler or or still a young child, adults determine your whole life, like they determine the level of, of like what room you get to be in, you know, like you, you can't even wander into the kitchen without someone wandering in and being like, why are you in the kitchen right now? Right. And so any kind of self-determination is so important to them because it's their whole life. Right. And so part, part, of the reason why we have to be empathetic to that boundary pushing is because, like, if every time you walked out of the room, someone walked in and said, why aren't you in in here, although, you know what, that's what being a parent is so uh, you know, you would also want to push those boundaries. Yeah.

0:31:45 Viced: It's annoying right now, but I know I'll miss it when I'm older, but every, they see me throughout the day, hi papa, every single time, it's like, you said hi to me three minutes ago, why are you saying hi again. Um, Yeah, no, and in this case there's also a safety issue, which we have five kids in the house, and sometimes the opposition gets violent, and so there are times when it's, okay, well, I really hate that it's kind of become a punishment, that to sit with me, with my, my arm around you is a punishment almost, but it's not actually a punishment, it's just about keeping people safe. Um, are kind of adapting to, like, when it gets to the stage where I need to sit with them, it's like, okay, well the quicker I calm down the quicker I get out of this, and so they are actually, you know, starting to learn better processes, I guess.

0:32:30 Thomas: That's interesting, by your mere presence and them not wanting to be in it. That's how you know.

0:32:37 Viced: Yeah, basically. The thing. Do you remember Tom and Haley's podcast?

0:32:41 Thomas: Yeah, of course.

0:32:42 Viced: I read it, I was like, okay, well, Tom's in a similar situation to me. He's a co-parent with kind of a bad situation going there, and he's got multiple stepkids or whatever. So I'm picking up and, like, I'm having difficulty relating to my stepkids. Um, then I listened to, like, the, the episode where he talks about how, like, him first meeting the kids, like, oh yeah, and everybody got along great and it was perfect and happy and everybody loved each other, like, fuck you, you motherfucker, okay.

0:33:07 Thomas: Good advice.

0:33:08 Eli: To be fair, I don't know if he said that on that show, but I was there, and I can assure you that is not what happened. It it might

0:33:14 Viced: That that is the impression I got from the show

0:33:16 Eli: Be sunshine and roses now, but I was fucking there, so when show starts back up again I want to do a correction episode where I come on exactly caller Eli Bosnick comes in to call out fucking my, my shit, I'm coming in yeah

0:33:24 Thomas: Caller caller Eli Bosnick.

0:33:32 Viced: Maybe I'm misremembering, but that is the impression I left I was left with

0:33:34 Thomas: I know I think it was a little both. I might, the way I remember it is like there was something he did for Aisling that, like, just totally turned the corner. And I think it went from like zero to a hundred, like overnight. I don't know that that happened immediately, but that was my memory of it. So like there might've been like the, the awkward phase and then all of a sudden it was fine or something. But Uh, yeah, that's it, that's got to be an interesting experience. So what, what do you do to try to ease the, is there anything you do other than these blanket hugs that, you know, I have to do that as a parent sometimes too, where you're just like, oh, you're gonna hurt somebody so come into my here you go yeah is

0:33:51 Eli: You never know loving arms oh

0:34:11 Viced: After that they usually have to to sit on the couch for a little while and kind of be separate from everybody else while they calm down, but um, yeah, really it's, um, there's not a lot you can do in the moment other than just let them run through it, uh try to make sure there's a lot of warning, uh, they do do better if they have warning, like instead of just the, it's time to go now, it's like, okay, 20 minutes till we put the tablet down or stop playing with their toys or whatever.

0:34:25 Thomas: A way you can like present stuff any differently or is it it like you know what I mean uh

0:34:40 Viced: It may be

0:34:40 Eli: My whole life is timers. My Apple Watch, I just wear it for, it's just a stopwatch, it's the only reason I wear it. It says your pulse is too high because you're fat. And then, and I use it for the constant fucking timers in my life. Gotta

0:34:56 Viced: Laughed at me when we first got together, and we were at the playground with the kids, and she said, we're leaving in three minutes, and I pulled out my phone and set a three-minute timer.

0:35:04 Eli: Do it, I get it, uh And I also really relate to the idea of, like, my presence is the punishment, because I am definitely the disciplinarian in the house, and so, like, there will be fun that is happening, and then the fun gets too wild or he gets too excited, and then sort of the need to be brought down, and I am often the vibe bring-downer, and that's, that's no fun. Oh,

0:35:34 Thomas: I I am so sick of that, it sucks, I feel like I always have to be, not all the time, Lydia is definitely getting better with this, but there's a time where I felt like I was the only one who was making Phoebe wear a brace, and so it's like, cool, I have to be the, like, put your brace on, put your brace on, put you, but, like, that's my whole interaction with her, and just kind of, like, it's, it's one of those things that, like, I, I don't know, I don't know what to do about that, you know, but the good thing is, like, I do feel like the kids are pretty, I think they're pretty flexible, I don't think they, you know, like they brush, they stuff off pretty quickly, because I would hate to just become like, oh, that's the asshole that just tells me to put on my back brace, and that's all, you know what I mean, it's bummer. Oh,

0:36:12 Viced: I suspect that their father is actually reinforcing that view of me at his house. Um, the

0:36:17 Thomas: No

0:36:17 Viced: The youngest, the trans, and um, they, their dad is not affirming, and he blames me for it, I, I think, like

0:36:25 Thomas: Sorry What, he blamed, he blames you for the transness? Oh, wow

0:36:33 Viced: The picture in his head is that his kids were fine until I showed up in the picture. Now suddenly he's got a trans kid. So that guy, I'm some woke guy who's transing my kids.

0:36:42 Thomas: How many other people have you transed and so

0:36:45 Viced: Two of my kids,

0:36:47 Eli: Well, there you go, see, you're trans in your own kids you trans is getting there let's go can I say great numbers you're fucking, and that your record is flawless.

0:36:48 Thomas: It is you okay yeah can You trans me, I'm just yeah it's

0:36:56 Viced: I mean, when you look at the correlation between autism and gender nonconformity, it, that That's how many trans kids I have, but yeah, no, that can be a little rough because I, I don't actually know that that's happening, it just, like, they, they are so much worse to me when they get back from their dad's house, so it feels like that'S happening yep

0:37:00 Thomas: Pretty yeah Yeah.

0:37:12 Eli: Well Also, you can, you know, if you have a parent, a stepparent, or a parent that is, uh, or in other ways not amazing, when they get back to their safe place, that's when they can often act out, right, is they are managing that other parent's emotions when they are over there, and then they come back and they, they feel safe and they feel comfortable. And they're like, hey, I felt a bunch of bad emotions this weekend, would you care for them? These are for you now.

0:37:39 Thomas: Oh

0:37:39 Viced: Is 100 % 100 % it's

0:37:42 Thomas: That's us after school. Basically. That was just like the, you know, I hope that's true. That

0:37:47 Viced: He picks them up at our house, uh, they will often, they'll find anything that might look pink or girly and be like, okay, well, that can't be near the door because dad might see it and get mad, and

0:37:55 Thomas: Is such a bummer. Oh my God. That sucks. Jesus. What a bummer that that's fucking awful.

0:38:00 Eli: That dude sucks. Lame.

0:38:01 Viced: Yeah, he does.

0:38:06 Thomas: Fuck.

0:38:06 Eli: Dear dads. Right. But gentlemen, don't worry, I have something that'll cheer you up. Um, 'cause I'm actually going through my own thing right now. Last night, uh, got a hole in my inflatable house, now I'm living in a flat. That.

0:38:28 Thomas: Oh, that is

0:38:31 Viced: Was eigentlich aiming for sad trombone, but I didn't uh I forgot which button it was

0:38:33 Eli: That's all right. Hey, you nailed it. You got it there.

0:38:35 Thomas: I thought that's so, so funny, I thought Eli got that back out again, I was like, oh, Eli, that's, I haven't heard that for so long, it's been a while

0:38:41 Eli: Hey soundboard parenting

0:38:48 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle and the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILF, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC. Copyright 2022. All rights reserved.

0:39:36 Thomas: Just a lot, man. It's

0:39:39 Eli: Dude got fucked by his priest like 40 years ago, and he won't shut up about it. Do

0:39:46 Thomas: What was I saying, nobody's listening, uh, damn it, no, I'm just kidding that was

0:39:49 Viced: I just don't have I also have adhd so I don't have so

0:39:52 Thomas: It, oh, thank you, you reminded me, um