DOD300: She'll Do It If You Want To

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's that's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired. Yelling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: To Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's tired of asking, I'm Tom Curry, I am joined, as always, by Thomas Smith, and Eli Bosnick, hello, gentlemen, that's it, that was the

0:00:39 Thomas: This I I was

0:00:37 Eli: Hello, that's a, they did it, they,

0:00:42 Tom: Show,

0:00:41 Thomas: Waiting for I was I was waiting for something more I okay um

0:00:43 Eli: Pre,

0:00:43 Tom: I mean, do we need to, like, launch into pre banter, tales of woe, I can tell you about my air conditioner that broke, literally, the day after after I got home from the hospital, yeah, okay, let me just tell you, like a quick, sad tale of air conditioning, woe., I keep my house at a perfectly normal, reasonable, human temperature, temperature, 68 degrees. That is the appropriate temperature for a house.

0:00:51 Eli: Take us there, tell us about your, Jesus, too

0:01:00 Thomas: Degrees nice oh fuck how has haley not killed you though that's yeah two yeah

0:01:08 Eli: Weak, too frozen,

0:01:08 Tom: It's, yeah, everybody has decided that I am an ice wraith and that is what they call me. And they can just wear a shirt and a jacket and a blanket and some slippers. I don't care. It's 68. 68 is the right temperature. I kept it 66 when I had an apartment by myself. I've given in two degrees. That's fine.

0:01:23 Eli: It's nice, because if if you forget food, right, and you leave it out, and, you don't put it in the fridge right away, it still safe, that nice, yeah,

0:01:30 Tom: Fine It's Fine

0:01:31 Thomas: You can thaw it out in the fridge

0:01:33 Tom: So get I get home from the hospital I'm still hurting I'm you know trying to like take it easy Like all this And the fucking air conditioner Stops working Now it's

0:01:44 Thomas: Oh, okay. I thought you were going to say while you were gone, there was a mutiny and it was now like 83 degrees.

0:01:49 Eli: And then they moved it up, now, now do you,

0:01:50 Tom: I don't know what

0:01:50 Thomas: It's the scouring of the Shire. Like you come back.

0:01:51 Tom: Look What they do while I'm not here In their little temperature wonderland Has nothing to do with me You know But like What I expect

0:01:57 Eli: Yeah, that's between them and God. Yeah, yeah.

0:02:00 Thomas: They're like, shit, he's coming back. Turn down. No, it's not going to be fast enough. Like getting buckets of ice. It's like, how do we make it colder in here?

0:02:06 Tom: Look there are there are very few things where I'm like yeah this one is just my decision like in the temperature the house is just one of them so like it's it's not a lot it's not a lot yeah

0:02:07 Eli: It's a reverse poppers penguins.

0:02:13 Thomas: I think every dad should get one. Every dad should gets one. One of those things minimum.

0:02:18 Eli: Every dad has one line that they draw and it's because there's a little part of you that is still when men killed their whole families. And so you just go, hey, I'm not going to kill my whole family, but I would like to control the thermostat. I mean, not Tom right now.

0:02:27 Tom: I can so jesus yeah

0:02:35 Thomas: Jesus Christ.

0:02:36 Eli: He's very typical right now, but

0:02:37 Thomas: That's hospital Tom is back. Hospital Tom is back. It's a different Tom. It got canceled. It is not this one.

0:02:40 Tom: I'm is it so

0:02:41 Eli: Tom Tom Tom have a plan for the order in which he would kill his family obviously yes everyone does why wouldn't you have an order you're just gonna get fucking get brained from behind like Finn

0:02:48 Tom: Has an order though right yeah well

0:02:52 Thomas: Each get walked into the car wash one at a time.

0:02:55 Tom: Like yeah no like

0:02:55 Eli: If you don't start with Finn you're obviously gonna get defeated by Finn yeah exactly he's ruining the whole plan yes

0:02:57 Tom: I don't start with finn it's not happening happening it's not happening I gotta do I finn's a by surprise or not happening situation a hundred percent god he's fucking huge right now that

0:03:04 Eli: You got it you gotta get Finn and then Donovan's gonna get brave and ninja moves at the end and then And honestly, then you can take your time and have a good time. Then

0:03:13 Tom: Got plenty of options in front of you all right so the fucking air conditioner it starts to be like 72 70 it's like 72 73 well that's no good 74 70 no okay we're not doing that so I call an air conditioning company guy comes out he's like I can't really find anything I clean this I clean that you know your expectations are too too high. He says, you know, it's 90 degrees out. It's going to be not 68. I was like, well, it's been 68 for three years that I've owned this house. Yes, it will.

0:03:13 Thomas: Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah.

0:03:13 Eli: You can enjoy yourself. Enough about killing our families.

0:03:34 Thomas: Oh man.

0:03:40 Tom: So let's send someone else out.

0:03:41 Thomas: I love that because not only with with normal people but also I've noticed that with um claude will sometimes just be like my computer will do something dumb and it'll be like well you know just that's just whatever chill just you got to run the audio with a buffer that like it's like 4096 and I'll be like listen to me you fucking piece of shit I bought the best computer because that's the thing I care about most this buffer should be zero it should be 0 to 1 that's how much it should be and the Claude's to credit it'll be like fuck you're right okay hold on let me let me try harder

0:04:14 Tom: Scaling it back, scaling it back. Yeah, yeah. So this guy's like, yeah, it is fine. And then it's not fine. And then they sent out a second guy and the second guy is like the nicest human being in the entire world. And the whole time, by the way, like I've got to like hobble up and down the stairs like base show in people where the fucking furnace is like I'm two three days out of The Hospital like I'm not like happy about this situation right I am grouchy the second guy comes out he's like yeah something's not right but I don't know what we gotta send out somebody more senior I'm like okay next day this other more senior guy comes out this guy comes down he spends hours fucking around with this and fucking around that he comes And he's like, hey, when your home builders built this house, they did not braze this thing in properly with nitrogen, which basically ruins it. And now it's ruined. And let me show you the way that it's ruin. And I was like, well, that sucks. Like, what do I do? He's like you have to buy a whole new air conditioning unit on your three year old house.

0:04:35 Eli: Tail of blood just dribbling behind you. Gotta

0:05:08 Thomas: Just because they didn't braise it at least

0:05:14 Eli: Put it in the fridge in a sauce.

0:05:16 Thomas: Mine was a lot more than that oh plus I had the two units that's part of it

0:05:20 Tom: And like oh yeah so he's like yeah I gotta put in a brand new air conditioner like it's just garbage now like this is ruined and he's your fuck you you know basically and I was like well that super sucks and he'S like I can have a salesperson here to sell you one in like an hour or whatever and I'm like that tracks of course you can so this lady comes out and she's like yep it's gonna be $10,000 you know I'm that's money I wasn't planning on at all so okay airline points you know yeah right yeah yeah I know I'm yikes on that but then I I'm like fine we got to do it when can you install it like I buy it right now when can install we'll install it tomorrow awesome great they come out they install it they get here like seven o 'clock in the morning now it's like one two three fucking days that like I did not get to sleep in there's came home from the hospital tuesday I am dealing with this every fucking day in the mourning since I got out home for three fucking days

0:05:47 Eli: Bills? Make sure you braise it.

0:06:16 Tom: Now. I don't want to do this. I just want my house to be a comfortable temperature and I don'T want to deal with a goddamn broken air conditioner, but I got to deal with the goddamn broken hair conditioner. And time somebody comes out it, they're here for hours and I have to stay like available to them to babysit their questions. You it's fucking sucks. It sucks. So they come out and they install this air air conditioner and I'm like okay cool that's over brand new air no new brand new air conditioner that fucking house starts to heat back up again motherfucker 72

0:06:16 Thomas: Christ dude god the average The average day of your life is the worst day of my life. Every time.

0:06:45 Eli: Hopefully.

0:06:52 Thomas: Didn't braise it. You didn' braise.

0:06:52 Eli: Goddammit.

0:06:53 Tom: I lost my fucking mind I got on the phone they have like a 24 hour service I let it go for like six or eight hours it didn't get the house down at all to like and it's now it's only like 79 degrees he's out my house is like 73 it's got a six degree spread it's ridiculous so

0:07:10 Eli: Right. You put a bowl of cold water in the middle of the living room, you're getting the same results.

0:07:13 Tom: I picked up the phone they're like yeah we'll send we'll your message to dispatch I'm was like I've got nothing but time anger and adderall I'm calling every 15 minutes until someone makes an appointment and they're here and if you think I'm kidding set your fucking watch because I'm setting a timer on my phone I will call every 15 moments until somebody gets back back to me. I have got nothing else to do. Like, I'm not working this whole week. I'm they're like, it's Sunday or whatever. I don't, like it was after hours or whatever,

0:07:37 Thomas: Give a shit. It's Christmas.

0:07:38 Eli: You know what? I just talked to God. He said you could come.

0:07:41 Tom: I was like, I don't care. I know how it works.

0:07:42 Eli: I'm on the way to church.

0:07:43 Tom: I like, if someone went wrong at your work right now, you have a cell phone number of your boss that you can pick up and call. This up the phone with me, pick up your fucking cell phone, call your boss and say, this motherfucker is not going to stop calling every 15 minutes. That person didn't get get it back 15 minutes later I called I do this four times I finally get through to somebody they have somebody come out the next day at seven o 'clock in the morning it's like this senior tech fucking hvac guy whatever they fucking installed yeah

0:08:08 Eli: They didn't tell you to braise this, did they?

0:08:10 Tom: I do they got to come out fucking thursday to fix the brand new installation they fucking instilled the wrong evaporator coil they fucking did they did like the whole thing wrong they did the whole things wrong they're like oh yeah he's like he's not doing it right he's doing it wrong he's going to do it wrong

0:08:12 Thomas: My God. Really? Like braising is not. That's a food thing. I don't even know what the fuck he was talking about.

0:08:28 Tom: It is a fucking nightmare to work with contractors. That is just all I want to say. Like it is working. We've talked about this on the show before. Like you work with fucking contractors. You try to like work in good faith and be like, yeah, all right, come on out. I'll even give the second guy a try. I mean, the third guy, a fucking try. I'll Even spend money on a brand new thing. And they're just like, Yeah, we still fucked it up when they called today. Like right before I got on the air, I was on the phone with them because they called like, Hey, we're going to reschedule replacing your evaporator coil. And I'm like, was somebody to tell me why you put the wrong one in? Because you put the wrong one in and the lady's like oh we'll have someone get back to you there's a zero percent chance anyone's gonna get back to me like a zero percent chance like it's just not gonna happen

0:09:00 Thomas: This shit happens. Yeah.

0:09:04 Eli: Yeah, 100%. Can I tell you the devil's bargain that has entered my life?

0:09:16 Thomas: Hmm.

0:09:17 Eli: It's a man, a sexual beacon named Jimmy. Jimmy's the greatest contractor that's ever lived or ever will live. He he gets texts you back like a friend like you're in a permanent conversation you know you text your buddy your buddy texts you right oh yeah oh that's your fucking back texts you back can give you availability next day maybe two days right works constantly catches here's the catch he is quintuple nope I wouldn't give a shit are you kidding oh my goodness I've forgiven so so much worse than that he'd he is quintuple the price of anybody else quintuble the price of anybody but but here's the thing you think that but it's for everything right be like shower door is a little loose he'd belike yeah 900 bucks and

0:09:28 Tom: That your age back

0:09:35 Thomas: What's the catch? What's wrong with him? There's something... Child molester. Okay. I'd be fine with that. Yeah.

0:09:54 Tom: Sold

0:10:03 Thomas: Wow. This guy's a genius.

0:10:05 Tom: Like what are you gonna do call somebody else

0:10:06 Thomas: This guy is a fucking genius. Genius I've been thinking this for for five years since ever since covid or whatever it was I don't know if it's different regionally but at a certain point every contractor in the world died or decided they don't do anything anymore and so I that I've Been thinking from the beginning I was like how hard is it can I become a contract like could hard Is that you know because to do this exact thing that this genius is doing oh

0:10:30 Eli: He He has the market. And I will tell you, his schedule, his schedule is so fucking packed. And every time you call him for the gotcha, every time, you're like, oh, I'm going to fucking get Jimmy. He did something wrong. He does something so amazingly good. So, for instance, here's a good example. Right. The other day we hired him to fucking, I don't know, look at a light bulb or something. I don't need him because he does it right every time. And you know who shows up? Not Jimmy. And I was like, you son of a bitch. You're changing this light bulb. Cost me nine billion dollars you fucking you better show up and so I'm like hey jimmy are you coming by and he's like yeah I'm gonna I'm going to check the guy's work is he doing okay and I was like I don't know man I don' t know anything that's why I hire you and he was like well don't worry I always come by and check the work uh the guy guy shows up guy's kind of working guy's kinda quiet and finishes jimny looks at the work and he he's he's fixing the things the guy did he's no no what you want to do is he also talks like this which

0:10:31 Thomas: Screw a little loose 200 bucks I'll come tighten lighten that up oh

0:11:24 Eli: Is great does like this the whole time he's like no no no what you want to do is this and you gotta do that and that's that's gonna be much nicer with them right you don't want to cut that you don'T want to do this thing he does fix all the things does it all and he's like hey thanks so much you know I don't do this with a lot of clients but we have a felons release program we hire these guys they're felons it's a felon who can't get a job another place and that's why he said and then he came and checked the work and made sure it was perfect okay but here's the worst thing about jimmy you ready for this listen to this listen what this son of a bitch did to me. And then we'll get back to our tale. Three fucking winters ago, we're dealing with, um, this water is pouring into the basement and we get quotes from other contractors. That's, you know, you gotta get the sub pump and you gotta put your basement on bricks and you gotta, I've got to replace the floor and get hundreds of thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars. All this kind of stuff, Jimmy. And I'm, I go, fuck it. Obviously going to be be expensive let's go whole hog let's get fucking jimmy call jim he goes oh yeah you're uh your gutters are pointed at the wall as opposed to out from your house and

0:11:24 Thomas: Of course that'd be yeah I want can this guy come here oh nice cool

0:12:26 Eli: So he just points my gutters away from my house for free do you understand that I would have paid him any amount of he could have been like 80 billion dollars he could have charged me for anything pointed my gutter away from my home and was like nah don't worry about it say I had to give for me fucking jimmie man And, yep,

0:12:43 Tom: Fucking amazing. That, that guy is

0:12:45 Thomas: I thought you said that was the worst thing about yeah wait

0:12:46 Tom: The only person you should hire.

0:12:47 Eli: He doesn't do HVAC and he doesn' do electricity. Other than that, he's perfect in every way.

0:12:51 Tom: I've got to deal with my, uh, when they installed my pool, the pool cover, they installed it wrong. It's boring. And they installed that wrong.

0:13:01 Tom: They fight I already know what's gonna be a fight I just texted him yesterday and I was like I literally as I was texting him I waslike I gotta I gotta fight with keith about that goddamn thing

0:13:08 Eli: Oh, God, I've got to fight. We're going with Keith. Hey, Keith.

0:13:10 Tom: Jesus christ hey keith you motherfucker remember when you fucked this up and now you're gonna try to charge me for your bad installation yeah no

0:13:12 Eli: I'm prepared. Prepared for battle.

0:13:17 Thomas: A minute guys we're recording a show I forgot fuck the only thing worse did we do that

0:13:21 Tom: Goddamn

0:13:21 Eli: Guys, I was just about to say that. The only thing worse than hiring a contractor is the auto ads, which you can make go away. The Jimmy of your podcasting experience over at patreon.com/dearolddads That's where, for as little as a dollar an episode, you'll get a commercial -free version of every single show, plus a monthly bonus episode that we throw on there for you, a little parenting story at the end of every show. It's a ton of fun. Now, Thomas and Tom, it's a very special day. Over at Puzzle and a Thunderstorm, LLC, we have started to inform people about the coming Patreon changes. Shall we inform the folks at home about what's going on with monthly pledges?

0:13:22 Tom: Contractors we shall oh

0:13:59 Eli: Okay. So if don't give us money, you know what? A Take second. Kick your feet back. Enjoy. And hey, maybe consider giving us money because of how how hard we're about to be fucked by this change. Okay, so everybody gather around and let me explain to you a little story of a iTunes store, the worst monopoly since fucking the steel barons of the 1920s. So if you're not aware, if you've ever built anything for the iTunes store which I have, humble brag, if you try to charge any kind of money on the iTunes Store, you owe iTunes at minimum about 30%. Now, it actually gets more than that, but iTunes just off the top. But don't worry, iTunes has your back as a developer. They'll happily charge your customer that extra 30%, and then you just get the flat amount that you wanted to charge.

0:14:37 Thomas: Insane

0:14:50 Eli: There, don't hurry.

0:14:50 Thomas: And you know, there was an administration that was maybe kind of doing something about this and whatever happened Oh yeah, it was Joe Biden and then that ended, and now the current administration is like, oh no, you should probably extract more out of those Oh,

0:15:02 Eli: You can do whatever the fuck you want. Yeah, you do whateverthefuckyouwant. So, first told Patreon a couple years ago, hey, you're not charging enough money or you're charging a monthly subscription fee and you can't charge people per thing. Now, in iTunes' defense, yeah, there are a lot of predatory apps out there that take tremendous advantage of people by charging per thing and they are cracking down on that and they're trying to fix that because it is a major addiction problem, right? Games like Candy Crush, but especially now casino apps and stuff like that. Charging people per thing is a huge deal. And so they were trying to get rid of it. It's a long, boring story that you, the customer, don't care about. So they were like, hey, you can't charge per thing anymore. You got to just charge a subscription rate. And so Patreon was like, well, that's the decision. We got to switch everybody over to monthly. Then a European court told Apple like, oh, no, we still have laws over here in Sweden. You cannot adjust the due date. But what Apple did instead is they said, cool, if you want to charge any money, you've got to go monthly. And that appears to have stuck, or at the very least, it appears to be stuck for now. So moving forward, starting on November 1st, if You Were Paying Per Thing, which if you give us money, You Do, you will now pay monthly. Now, this is very important for you to understand. If you already give us money, nothing about how you give us money is changing, right? So if you give Us five bucks a month for five episodes, you will still be charged five bucks. A month. What if you limit your pledge? Because you only can afford to give Us two bucks a month. You will only give Us 2 bucks a month. You don't have to opt -in. You don' have to push any buttons. You don''t have to set anything up. It's all happening automatically. The only thing that's going to change is when you open your sweet, sweet, sleepy little eyes on November 1st, the number five will be on your pledge instead of one. And that's referring to a monthly number instead of a per thing number. That's the only thing that's going to change is a number you see on the screen. Everything else stays the same. So don't freak out. Don't

0:17:10 Eli: Freak it is, but it's, it is no longer being multiplied and that's why why you don't need to panic and hey look I don't like to attribute puzzle in a thunderstorm resources towards my solo albums but if you did want to check out please don't freak out and destroy our livelihood.com you will see a website that explains this entire process along with a video of myself and no illusions explaining everything so point being nothing is changing if you give us money now hey you non -money people I'm coming back to you again what's up I hope you enjoyed your little break let me tell you no matter what we say and do come november 1st someone who would like some attention on tiktok is going to be like why patreon just quadrupled everyone's pledge and a lot of people will have not heard this announcement they'll freak out and they will take away a significant chunk of my livelihood so if you would like to sign up for patreon to prevent me from having to sell tom's body piece by piece on the black market I would would appreciate it that's over at patreon.com/dearolddads like this legal change into my income inevitably rip into it uh

0:17:10 Tom: Eli the number five is bigger bigger than the number one. What if I panic?

0:18:29 Tom: All right! All right, so let's do an email, gentlemen. This comes from a listener named A Listener. Wife and I have been married for almost 15 years. We've had a generally great relationship. We communicate well, love each other, show affection, and enjoy each other's company. The only persistent issue in our relationship has been sex. To be clear, my wife andI both love sex. We both enjoy sex, but we enjoy different things. I am much more adventurous and enjoy variety and exploration. She enjoys comfortable and routine sex. Sex. Her enjoyment is necessary for mine. And if she were to just do something because I like it, I wouldn't be into it.

0:18:34 Thomas: Coincidence

0:19:04 Eli: You podcast listener

0:19:05 Tom: I know, like, this is a good, strong start. In fact, this is what has happened. We were having sex, and I asked if she wanted to try something. She said no, but she would if I wanted to. And it finally clicked to me that she's just not into the things that I am. We've talked about this extensively in our relationship, and I always kind of imagined that she could learn to like trying new things. Yeah, listen, I know. I hear it too. I never wanted to feel shame or guilt or do something she's not comfortable with. And at the same time, I'm kind of bored with our sex now. Since that day, when we have sex, I haven't been able to have an orgasm. The sex feels good. I'm still attracted to her, she would one day be into my stuff and the realization that she isn't won't be. And it'll be unrealistic and unfair to expect her to be into something for me. I'm worried that I won't find a way to come back and find pleasure in our sex again. I feel a little resentful that her sexual desires are totally met and mine are not at all. But I know that's not fair or productive. I know Tom won't say anything because he's a monk and Eli, yes, monogamy is torture and I should be the ethical slut. We

0:20:03 Eli: Get

0:20:03 Tom: Know that. With all of that aside, I'm at a loss for what to do, rip into it.

0:20:03 Eli: It baby uh so first and foremost I just want to say that like because we get a lot of people who write in about sex problems or relationship problems, and they have fucking blown it, right? And they're barely able to communicate to us that they haven't blown it. But we're like, oh, you fucking blew it. And it really sounds like this listener did not blow it, right? This listener listened to the communication, expressed their needs, heard their partner. And that deserves a tremendous amount of congratulations. Because I think a lot of the time, especially when you're a man and you want something that your partner doesn't want, right, a good guy, TM, the only thing that consumes your brain is like, don't be a rapist, don'T BE A RAPIST, DON'T BE a RAPEST! Because so many other dudes are like, how do I be a racist? Now is the time for brain—what's the optimal strategy for being a rapest? And so not only did you do the good thing of not being a racist, but you've also acknowledged your truth without just being like, and don't worry, I promise never to feel anything ever again, which is really, really useful. Yeah

0:21:11 Tom: Also point out a couple of things that I thought were giant, like green flags from here that I thought was great. Like enjoyment is necessary for mine. And if she were to just do something because I like it, I wouldn't be into it when you see like a lot of this sort of similar question that gets phrased just to kind of yes. And what you were saying, Eli, so much of the phrasing is like My wife doesn't want to do this. How do I convince her to want to do this? Or how do I get her to do something she doesn't actually want to do anyway? And I appreciate that writer here is saying, yeah, First and foremost, let's get it out of the way first. If she's not into it, I do not want to be into it with her. I'm not into if she's into it. I think that's awesome. I actually think that that's good for you. I feel like it's always always really sus and red flaggy to me if somebody is like yeah you know my wife's not into it but like I can convince her to do it and

0:22:01 Tom: You're like that's fucking that's adjacent like it's right there like that'S RIGHT THERE like why do you like doing something that she'd like if she's just like yeah I'm just I just want to use your body to masturbate into I know you're not into this like fucking what what is wrong with you like you're bad yeah

0:22:01 Eli: It's weird it's I the thing that comes up in a lot of these situations that someone will be like well it's still fucking suck my man yeah

0:22:24 Tom: It's adjacent right because it's like It's not enthusiastic, right? You're taking the enthusiasm out of the element for sure then. Nobody's enthusiastically agreeing to something that they're just begrudgingly, you know? So yeah, I just want to give a green flag kudos to that. Sucks though to find out that it's killed your vibe together. Sucks.

0:22:46 Eli: Talk about introducing fantasies right because you're having sex and you asked if she wants to try something thing. And if this is something that you're getting a no to, right? So there's two possible scenarios here, The right. First is that you asked for something super milquetoast and you got a no to it because you didn't expect you were going to get a no, right, you were like, can I have a kiss on the neck? And she was like, oh, I'm not comfortable with that. And you're like, Oh, God, fun. Right. And we can talk about how to deal with that, but probably what happened, probably what happened is that. You were in the middle of having sex and you were, like, Can I put it in your ass? And now, let's be honest, podcast listener, is that a mid -sex conversation or is that all of our clothes are on conversation? It's an all of Our Clothes Are On conversation.

0:23:30 Thomas: How are you going to get in someone's ass with their clothes around? That doesn't make any sense.

0:23:32 Tom: Yeah, that's weird.

0:23:33 Thomas: Eli.

0:23:34 Eli: But seriously, what I suspect is you introduced something. I'm sure it's reasonably kinky. Lots of people look putting penicillin in their booties. There's nothing wrong with it. But it is a conversation to be had over clothing, over a dinner perchance, or in a scenario where the pressure is off so that you can talk around it as opposed to being like, oh, wait, um, okay. Yeah, no, that's not a problem. No, no. That's fine. That's fun. That's not fine. Fine. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. No worries. Right? Part of the reason why it was vibe killing, and you got to own this, part of the reason why it was vibe killing is because the scenario in your head involved the sudden ask and the enthusiastic yes. And look, that is wonderful and it is okay to do, right? Is absolutely okay to express to your partner a desire for something in the moment and for you both to be caught up in that enthusiastic foreknowledge consent. Hey, do you want to to take this paper towel and toss it on top of my head. Hell yeah, I do. It's a wonderful moment, right? It's lovely to be swept up in a mutual moment of affection together. But I you probably knew that your partner, I can't speak for anyone else. I'm pretty aware of what my partners are into. Yeah. I don't think that I'm just guessing for pretty much anything at this this point in my life and so I I think manner the in which you didn't do the best possible job right that you kind of I don't want to say you snuck one in because I think that's too accusatory I think you were hoping that this would fly when you knew maybe a longer conversation would be a pretty clear now right

0:25:23 Tom: Yeah. I, think that one thing I want to seize on too, from this email is this sentence and then kind of unpack what it means, because I think it's, it's at the heart of it. Since that day, when we have sex, I haven't been able to have an orgasm. The sex feels good. I'm still attracted to her, but I feel like I had a load bearing fantasy that she would one day be into my stuff and the realization that she isn't and won't be. And it would be unrealistic and expect her to be into something for me. I think the real fantasy that you've been holding out for is that your wife would sexually be someone that she's not. The boner killer here for you isn't necessarily about the sex act itself that you sprung on, like maybe in the heat of the moment, maybe bad timing, let's reconsider a different timing. But it feels to me like what this person is saying is like, hey, I kind of always had in the back of my head that my wife would open up and be this different sexual person than she actually is. And I've come to this realization that that's not going to happen. And now, now I feel that distance when, when that was maybe going to happened, the distance is more narrow, like the psychological emotion, like that distance is more narrow. Cause like, you know, maybe it will. And, and I think what they've realized is like, it's not, that's the real fantasy. The real fantasy

0:26:40 Tom: Here, I think is like Yeah, I think that's a big deal, though. And I'm not sure that that's the same thing as trying to negotiate agreements about specific acts before or after or when the appropriate time to do it is. That stuff always really important. Important but this feels like a like I mean I hate to say it but this feels like uh an incompatibility issue sexually that may not be like like and I think that like the resolve for it is probably is probably some kind of like interrogation for yourself I'm like okay can't have this how do I still have a good time like

0:26:40 Thomas: What they're saying. Yeah,

0:27:16 Eli: Me push back slightly with some disagreement there because here's my guess and my guess could be wrong. My guess is a conversation about this hasn't happened since then. Right. You heard a no, you respected the no. Maybe maybe the vibes weren't good. Right? It certainly doesn't sound like the vibes were amazing. Right, and nobody likes to get a no. Right nobody's like wouldn't it be amazing and the other person's like not at all and you're like oh yeah it's just the deepest most vulnerable part of me stupid.

0:27:43 Eli: Right Right. Like, yeah, we fucking get it. Like I completely empathize with that. And there's nothing wrong with being hurt by that. What I would say is I might not be an incompatibility issue here. I am guess you got to know you have been afraid to have the conversation since then because you're worried it will feel like pressure. Especially if you frame the conversation as, well, I'm not really experiencing pleasure anymore because of of that no that I got, or I'm really in my head because of that. No, I got. And if you framed the conversation that way, it would be pressure. It would not be good. It wouldn't mean to not be good to express it to your partner that way or to talk to your part. About it that way. But I do think it is worth having a conversation about that thing that you want and how your partner feels about it. And If there are versions of it that can be explored, right? So something thing that you learn very early in the kink community is that there are people, and I think I've talked about this before in the context of like casual sex, right? Which is that I think casual sex and a lot of hard kinks are like backflips, which is that I think there are a few people who can do them reliably and safely. Right. I think a lot more people watch videos online of people doing backflips and they're like, I can probably do a backflip, but you can't. You're going to hurt yourself or someone else. So there are a lot of kinks that people don't want to do in real life, but they might like to talk dirty about or play pretend about. There are lots of things surrounding a kink you can do without actually making your partner

0:29:26 Eli: Wash their hair with your urine. You know what I'm saying?

0:29:30 Thomas: Yeah, I think that's a good point. I know. I want to ask you guys, though, just for fun. There much that if your wife said, all right, there's this thing I really just been wanting to do. You. I've been wanting you to do it. I wanted to do it. What's the range of things that you would say no to if your wife said that? Because for me it'd be like I don't like, you know, like cut off my arm or something, but like, yeah, pretty much pretty much short of that. You know what I mean? Like is there an interesting like double not a double standard, but like a difference in how people are.

0:29:57 Eli: See, I actually have some pretty hard lines around this stuff. Cause I had some not cash money experiences, um, with, uh, people being like, I'm dominant and you're submissive and me being 19 and just being like whatever you say ma'am um now as an adult reflecting back I'm like oh I don't want that to happen so even if if my wife was really into that and she was like hey that's how the boat floats I of course I have the fucking cheat code and I'd be like let's go find you a little motherfucker to beat the shit out of I'll fucking hey man me and my wife were checking you out across the bar and we fucking hate you dude let's get you back to my house and have my wife fucking work you over like the end of a Rocky movie. I'm all about that. But, but I, I actually do have very hard lines when it comes to that kind of stuff and have because I am a nice person. I think I've talked about this on air. So forgive me if I have, because I have a nice person and because I talk about kink a lot and because I have a soft boy face, people are like that guy, he's a fucking bottom. And so listeners generously keep in mind, if I was a bottom this is a very nice thing to do listeners will be like what up bitch I'm gonna punch you in the face and I have to be like oh first of all I appreciate the offer thank you so much that is a very kind sir you have honored me with your offer and your friendship but I must ask that you not talk to me that way because I am just a little sad now

0:31:26 Eli: For though I know you are initiating a Hey, dom sub relationship, you just actually said a mean thing and I'm a drama kid. So please send me 20 seconds of you applauding and you shall be forgiven.

0:31:40 Thomas: Know. I think we all, everybody has like their own specific things in mind, but, but even just in general, like whatever the thing may be, like, I think the odds that two people just happen to already exactly be into all of the same things is kind of low. So isn't there naturally going to be some process some amount of process I think this is kind of what you're saying with the um con like you gotta have conversations about it and also there might be other versions of things that work I think that's a really good answer but I I think it might be a little too quick to be like well no no one should ever be asked or suggested to do anything they haven't already said they're into too. Cause then I don't, I don't know how you would get, how you, you would discover anything. You know what I mean? Like the odds that you're all starting.

0:32:22 Tom: I wouldn't suggest that either. Yeah

0:32:23 Thomas: Yeah. So like there's some process of like conversation that maybe, you know, to your point, isn't can't be like coercive in any way, but some, some amount, like, I think this list, I guess what I'm saying is I think maybe this listener is kind of maybe giving up all hope too quickly. I don't know. What do you think yeah

0:32:40 Tom: I think this listener has found themselves like I guess the part of it that's interesting to me is like, why can't you be into the sex that you were into before anymore? Because what they described is from the beginning of the email, they both love sex. They both enjoy sex. They were having sex fine until this moment happened. And they've been married a not insignificant amount of time. They've been married 15 years. So presumably they've been having sex, according to their own email here, happily for a decade and a half and everything hummed along just fine. He maybe had some like kinks or whatever that she wasn't into. He thought, well, maybe something. But like everything seemed like it was going OK. But now he's in his head. And I think that he's in hishead, Mike, from his email like he's in his head because he's worried that she's not into him anymore. Right. That the things he's been asking about, the things he's really interested in. It's not just that they weren't going to happen. They didn't happen for 15 years, presumably. And they had sex. They had good sex. They both enjoyed the sex. Now something has changed. What's changed is your insecurity. That's what changed now you're worried that she's not really into sex with you and that the sex that you want to have is never going to happen and like you've got like like weirdness now that you've put up and that's a hundred percent like I hate to say this my guy that's 100 your weirdness first and that lives I think secondary to the specific sex acts that you're looking for because like something got in your head here oh

0:34:14 Thomas: Want to put in one caveat which is this all depends on what it is because like honestly if it's probably what we're thinking it is and odds are something that it is if it is like I want to put on your butt that's a different story if it was like what if you wore this lingerie and she's like nah I just don't really want to you know I mean like if it something that's kind of minor he might be having a feeling of like like, wow, okay. I get that. She said she wasn't into it, but if it's something minor, is it the kind of like, what's the line of where it's you ought to do that for your partner. I mean, it just really depends what it is. Like if it is, if it something totally so something big and you're probably right.

0:34:48 Tom: Sure I and I guess I was was assuming from I was assuming from the language from the email that

0:34:52 Thomas: Yeah. I think it's like 95% that you're right. I've just wanted to put in a little caveat.

0:34:58 Eli: Thomas, I thought you were going to go the other direction, which is that I thought you were gonna say like, hey, it might be something that's really like essential to this person. Right. Like maybe you've discovered something about your identity that you want to explore in the bedroom room that your partner's not particularly into. And so that's a big part of it. Like I, I have been right.

0:35:16 Thomas: Feels like a bigger rejection Maybe. Yeah.

0:35:18 Eli: I, I have friends who that is a part of their sexual identity, not their lived identity. Um, and so they need partners who, who, yeah, exactly. And that's why they should, ah, damn it. No good bit there is bad. There is there my great bit, which is always awesome is not good in that one scenario.

0:35:23 Thomas: Like they're the small spoon, for example. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

0:35:36 Eli: How dare you? Um, but you would need a partner who could accept you in that way and again that would be a conversation to have I'm just guessing that there hasn't been a post post this conversation and there needs to be there needs to be a nice friendly conversation and it needs to be solution minded not problem minded right it can't be hey uh ever since we had that conversation I can't come because that's that's pressure and shit and I'm really really happy that you haven't had it because you know it's pressure and shitty but now it's time to have the like hey like I'm really turned on by this site of of you wearing the red lingerie how talk about it like tell me about it what that makes you uncomfortable right let's talking about the things how you feel about that what are your kinks right ask her about the thing that turns her on because you might be like I want to put it in your butt and she's over there being like it's too small I need a doorknob right and then And maybe it's the best of all worlds, possible but like that's, only something that can be explored through closed.

0:36:31 Thomas: Let me let me ask you this, though, because I'm on this. She said no, but she would if I wanted to, which kind of tells me it like it can't be that crazy, maybe like, you know what I mean? Like what? OK, let me just pose a hypothetical. So we're not like talking. Anybody's talking past each other with like different things in their mind. What if it was something like, do you want to do like a certain kind of dirty talk or whatever where what if the answer is like, well, I'm not really, but I will if you want to because then that can feel like with certain things in relationships with certain things in marriages and it all depends on what the line is aren't there things where the proper thing to do as a partner is even if you aren't super into it to do it for your partner and also not make them feel shitty about it like aren't There are plenty of other things that are like that mm

0:37:28 Eli: A million. And again, let's, let'S say that it's a certain kind of dirty talk, right? It's a sort of non -demeaning dirty talk. The clothed conversation can reveal those comfort levels, right. Like, I don't know. We were just in the moment and I couldn't really think of anything. I'm not a master of the written word the way Eli is and I was worried because I I I will say this I um had part female partners specifically who hate dirty talk who get very flustered and just use the example who get very flustered when asked to dirty talk and don't they don't like to do dirty talk because they feel like it's demeaning or or they don't know what they want to say. Like, it feels like making them do improv. And so I have had partners who are like, Hey, I don't like that. And then when we have had a conversation about it, there have been ways to get into dirty talk that have made them feel comfortable that

0:37:48 Tom: Over here scrawling notes yeah

0:38:21 Eli: They're, that have found a way in. But again, I think the clothed closed conversation, um, that. Um, and, uh, yeah, just like, again, Again, I want you to know that like it is normal to feel rejected and to go through that experience. Right. Because we share we you're a pervert, you share your sexuality, who you are, that like the things you're into with a very, very small number of people. Yeah. And it's very personal. It one of the only like truly honest connections that we have because everything relationships and everything in our human is so laced in garbage. Right. It's so

0:38:21 Thomas: A hundred percent a hundred percent yeah

0:38:58 Eli: Lanced in the culture and the religion. Well, my dad talked this way to my mom. So that's but your fuck your fuck is your fuck. Right? It's very rare that your fuck isn't your fuck right. And so to share that and have someone go not for me. It be hurtful. Did the right thing. I want to be very very clear like you should have more conversations I want to encourage you to have good conversations and connect on that level but like what you did the not being pushy to your partner that's the right thing right and what you're struggling with now is normal and fine and you get to deal with it in like a healthy way and it's not forever don't

0:39:36 Tom: I guess like one ad I would I would add to that is like when and I just want to go back to this this other part that that you brought up thomas she said no she said I'm not she said but she would if I wanted to and then that's where the whole problem like hit for him and I I just keep coming back to the psychology of it because I feel strongly like 15 years you guys have been getting it on and everything's fine and then you discovered something and I think what he wants is for her to want him in this very specific way and that the insecurity that this is like created or that this has brought brought up or that this is like forced to the forefront for you is bigger than just like, I want to do a thing. I think that just twice now in the same email, there's language here that says, I'm worried here that this person she'll do it if I want too. That's not the issue, but I'm afraid that she doesn't want these things and she might not turn out to be somebody that I want her to turn out, to be. And I think something that like is something that should be interrogated on your own and maybe with a counselor if it's like this big of a deal for you because that's less to me interpersonal and that's more like hey why am I this insecure about this maybe I should bring this up to my partner maybe I Should say hey when you said that I actually got worried about other things too because like you were willing and you know I had a reaction to that and I think there's some psychology there that's worth like exploring into especially after 15 years of good sex I

0:41:01 Thomas: I don't know that's right but I just want to offer it, like your your interpretation might be totally right um way I'm reading that could be that in a way if it had been something where she's like oh my god no I don't like that it would have been better like it would Have been easier rather for him to handle that there's something about the the like nah I mean I will if you want to depending on what again it all depends on what it is you know and there's any don't try to make me an asshole by deciding it's something terrible or whatever vice versa yeah like

0:41:21 Tom: With that yeah

0:41:33 Eli: Make her an asshole by being like it's a fucking Garfield mask tell

0:41:35 Tom: Thomas

0:41:36 Thomas: It could be exactly it a hundred percent it's we don't know what it is either way um

0:41:41 Eli: Us what it is we'd

0:41:42 Thomas: If it's but the fact that it's like something that she casually yeah the fact is something that she appears to be like oh I will if you want to kind of limits what it could you know like the range it could eat but anyway um might more be the feeling that

0:41:43 Eli: Like to judge your wife and her sexuality. Pretend to be our kid. Fine.

0:41:59 Tom: Christ no well

0:41:59 Thomas: Could could be worse to, to hear that. Cause then it sounds like, oh, it's not that she has some firm line or the, or trauma or anything like that. It's that she just doesn't really care enough to like go along with something that he wants, even though she could, that could be how he's taking that.

0:42:17 Tom: I would read it maybe even a little differently than that too and say like it think it would be very plausible I guess when one thing that I'm maybe picking up on is like it'd be very plausible to read that as like well she'll do it but she doesn't want to what else is she doing that she She doesn't want to.

0:42:30 Eli: -hmm. And what has she done that she doesn't want to do?

0:42:33 Tom: And that's what I'm saying. Like for me, I can see like I'd be like, oh, shit. Now I'm insecure about this. Right, because like I don't want her to do things. Her pleasure is important to my pleasure. It's necessary precondition for my own. I now know that she's willing to do thing that she doesn't wanna do. Has she been doing things she doesn't do all this time? Is she not having as good a time as I think she's having? That could get in your head, I guess, is what I am saying.

0:42:54 Eli: Hundred percent. Absolutely.

0:42:56 Thomas: Okay. Maybe. But I also, my interpretation was that they're just doing the most vanilla sex possible now. Now, so I don't know what else that could be because so it, my, my interpretation is I agree, but it's more forward looking where it's like, oh, I guess it's not like anything ever that is going to be anything other than missionary. When we gaze directly into each other's eyes is same way.

0:43:15 Eli: Dear Old Dad's plays Just the Parts with Eli with this special edit I made of just Eli's voice and not Tom's.

0:43:23 Thomas: Yeah he has to have tom and thomas in but she's like oh I guess

0:43:27 Eli: It's opposite earbuds. Yeah, no, it's a whole thing. Kind of do like a left -right. Right. Yeah, exactly. It's a whole thing. Yeah. And look, here's what I'll say, because we don't know the situation. We don't know what it is. There are big things, right, that your partner might not be able to do. That is a hard line for them that you have that conversation and that discovery will be, hey, that's not for me and it's never going to be. And that is when you should read the ethical slut and stop doing sexual slavery. Stop doing sexual slavery.

0:43:30 Thomas: I mean I can't if you want to fuck

0:43:56 Eli: Gentlemen, before we go, I just put a wooden desk and a blackboard in my living room. I don't know. I just like to make things more classy.

0:44:20 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle and the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILF, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC. Copyright 2022. All rights reserved.

0:45:01 Eli: Oh, no, we still have laws over here in Sweden. You cannot adjust the due date. Don't be a rapist, don't be a rapist, don't be a rapist! Because in their booties. There's