GG83: DOJ vs. the Totally Completely Real Antifa Conspiracy in Minnesota. That Definitely Happened.

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:25 Thomas: Gavalin, Gavalino's, it's Thomas, it's Lydia and it's Matt. How's it going?

0:00:30 Matt: Guys, just another long day of pulling the strings on all of my Antifa drones out there. All enthralled to me.

0:00:36 Thomas: We're Yeah, there's a massive conspiracy that we're uncovering here.

0:00:42 Matt: I've been uncovering. I know what you guys are doing. Are you slacking?

0:00:44 Thomas: Oh, OK. OK, so this is where we're

0:00:49 Lydia: I'm one of the drones, honestly. I'm too tired. I can't be the, I can' t be the head.

0:00:53 Thomas: Oh man, yeah, this, don't, Matt, what the hell is this? I don't even know how to introduce it.

0:01:00 Matt: Well, it's not real, so that's part of the problem. It doesn't exist. The, I started to read through what we're going to be talking about, the more I realized that these people might actually believe that there's an Antifa conspiracy with some puppet master pulling the strings and actually controlling protestors in Minneapolis, that's right, straight to the top. We're gonna be looking at some documents that just came out and there's more coming because there's a discovery motion we'll get into that is like, where's the rest of this? Because this is the most comprehensive complete picture that we have gotten so far of how how ICE does undercover investigations of peaceful protesters. And as you might imagine,

0:01:02 Thomas: Exactly. Mr.

0:01:15 Thomas: Antifa Okay.

0:01:34 Thomas: Why

0:01:34 Matt: Some of it is, yeah, great

0:01:35 Thomas: Sorry what, why would that be a thing that ICE would do is

0:01:39 Matt: Question. And we're going to go through the indictment that all of this is attached to of multiple protesters in Minneapolis. And you're going be left with more questions, I think, than answers on this. Because when you actually break down what these people are charged with, of course, we've talked at length about the Prairieland protesters. And at least in the Prairland case, they could point to the fact that somebody at some point shot a gun and somebody got hit with a gun, right? Right? There's nothing like that here. There are no allegations of violence. There's no allegations of even really threats. Of these people are charged under the same statute as our friend, the sandwich guy, 18 U.S.C. 111, a different version, obviously. No sandwiches were harmed in the making of these protests. But this, to me, as I'm looking through this, I'm realizing we're kind of building out this universe of undercover ICE agents and what they've been doing.

And it's especially interesting to me because, of course, as you know, I was in Minneapolis in January. I went just a few days after the murder of Alex Preti and I kind of got a sense of things on the ground. I went to a number of meetings with activists. I got to see what they're actually doing and people, I gotta say, even though I was there with someone that they had every reason to trust, were deeply suspicious of

0:01:40 Thomas: Mm. -hmm all right

0:02:42 Matt: Everybody and of me. And when you read these reports, you can see why. They know and

0:02:43 Thomas: Yeah to be fair, you look like a narc, Matt, yeah.

0:02:47 Matt: That's true. I'm such a nerd. Shouldn't be wearing a black suit everywhere. That's probably my first problem.

0:02:52 Thomas: And an earpiece, oh.

0:02:54 Matt: Yeah, actually, I don't own, I own a black suit for funerals. I wouldn't wear one otherwise. But it is, though, it know, I would start asking questions about organizing tactics because I want to take stuff back to Boston and people would just kind of shut down, even though I'm like I'm with and not going to name the friend I was with, but she's pretty well known in New England as an organizer and politician.

0:03:05 Thomas: Yeah but did you say, "Hello, fellow kids?" Did you make sure to, I think that works if you do that.

0:03:16 Lydia: Oh,

0:03:16 Matt: My Original plan was I had my recorder recorder with me and I was going to start just recording some interviews and maybe use some clips on OA. And I realized I can't do that. I can't just pull out a recorder in front of these people like that. You know, they're going to kick me out. Even though, you know, I've got a business card, you can Google me, I'm findable, whatever. But for all they know, I've been turned by ICE. And, you know, that's pretty reasonable. Based on this stuff, honestly, like based on what I'm seeing here, the number of meetings they went to, the kinds of meetings that they were going to, I mean, they were definitely going to the same kinds of meetings that I was going to and sitting in. And you know that one of the organizers told me, we've just started saying, hey, welcome ICE agents, you know, hope you enjoy the meeting.

0:03:17 Thomas: Right. Oh.

0:03:36 Thomas: My god master

0:03:42 Lydia: Wow. Oh,

0:03:49 Matt: Like, they'll just say that.

0:03:49 Lydia: Just assuming that they're there. Yeah.

0:03:51 Matt: Yeah. Know, it is very funny on these reports. I mean, there's some very darkly funny stuff here, but they are trying so hard to find anything they can use. And they just can't because these are very disciplined, organized, and peaceful protesters. There are militants among them, but there are Antifa militants in the sense that they're ready to defend the community, in the since that they are using soft tactics, what they're called, like blockades and other things that don't actually hurt anybody. Um, the thing that really pervades all of this, it's called Operation Puppet Master. That is actually what they called it. And Every time I Exactly.

0:04:09 Lydia: Right.

0:04:24 Thomas: Master Yeah.

0:04:26 Matt: I was just gonna say that every time I hear the Metallica song in my head

0:04:23 Lydia: Unbelievable. Believable, yeah. Stranger

0:04:27 Thomas: And Lydia can get that reference because it was in Stranger Things otherwise she'd have no idea, yeah.

0:04:33 Lydia: Things Yeah. I

0:04:34 Matt: That's right, that was actually that was a great scene with a guitar solo that was, that was pretty, pretty sweet actually.

0:04:38 Thomas: Geppetto

0:04:39 Lydia: Say, I thought of Geppetto, so That was my first from Pinocchio.

0:04:41 Matt: Yeah.

0:04:42 Thomas: Sorry, What?

0:04:43 Lydia: Yeah. Literally

0:04:44 Thomas: Oh, oh, just by the name of it I was like The Metallica

0:04:45 Matt: The puppet master Yeah. The

0:04:46 Lydia: Like like someone who manipulates puppets, a puppet maker, maker. Oh, all

0:04:47 Matt: Whole time I

0:04:49 Thomas: Song? Was it Geppetto? Fucking A. Yeah, that's awesome.

0:04:52 Matt: Thought it was about drugs. What do I know? Uh, that, that guitar solo, you know, that's just I hear it in my head when I see this, this title, um, really shows the show because, you know, JD Van said at one point, had announced, you know, we're going to find out who's paying for these bricks, not that bricks are even really being thrown in Minneapolis Right, these expensive, I guess, custom bricks. I don't know.

0:04:56 Thomas: Yeah, of course. Paying for these bricks. Yeah.

0:05:09 Lydia: Right.

0:05:10 Matt: Patel was talking, of course, at the time as the director of the FBI about how they're going to root out all this Antifa in Minneapolis, and they're going to figure out who's running this thing. And just to give you a taste before we take a break here, I want to pull up the conspiracy map so you can see the level of intelligence that we are working with. And I mean intelligence in both senses.

0:05:26 Thomas: Yeah.

0:05:27 Matt: You can make out this conspiracy that's is from the exhibits, uh, is So

0:05:32 Thomas: Why does it say damn in the beginning?

0:05:34 Lydia: Action Minnesota I like it

0:05:34 Matt: Yeah. Yes. Which one of the best group names of all time. I love it. Yeah. But it is funny that everything points to damn

0:05:36 Lydia: Yeah. Damn.

0:05:36 Thomas: Oh, nice. Damn. Damn. Yeah. That's a circle of stuff and then it all points into damn The conspiracy. Okay, this

0:05:42 Lydia: Yeah.

0:05:42 Matt: It's a circle of damn. Yep. And out these groups, um, these Evil, evil groups like the SEIU, the CFO, right, like some of the biggest unions in the country. Of these are militant groups, none of these Antifa groups, Socialist Alternative.

0:05:58 Matt: There's literally a bike club, not a biker club, a biking club.

0:05:58 Lydia: The Grease pit. I'm

0:05:59 Thomas: Is incredible. Homeland Security Investigations, the conspiracy. So someone made a PowerPoint of this and you just put a bunch of logos and then in a line

0:06:06 Matt: Yeah, yes, yes.

0:06:11 Lydia: Sorry, And every single one says council member, like There's a cleaner way to do that.

0:06:12 Matt: Yes yeah.

0:06:14 Thomas: What? Yeah. It sounds like there's a council that has members. Is that, that's probably on, like, a website or something. They don't need to do a damn

0:06:21 Lydia: Minnesota

0:06:21 Matt: Organizer fashion, they do have have a leadership from each one of these groups sitting in on damn to organize, so they can have a response, um straight

0:06:26 Thomas: What?

0:06:28 Lydia: Association of Professional Employees. Oh my God, I'm shaking in my boots. That sounds very scary. Wow, vets

0:06:34 Matt: To the tab. Yep, yep. Um, so we'll get into some of this, uh, and, and how they're trying to piece all this together, but they are so desperate. This is literally what they're calling Antifa, is this, this ring, this conspiracy, um Right, uh, like the Black Cat Workers Collective is an anarchist collective, right? But again, they are peaceful. Uh, know, and the Democratic Socialist of America, I think we're pretty familiar with. Uh, you know, don't know, I mean, again, it's an actual political party. Um not a single group on here that, I mean, I'm familiar and I've heard of all these groups, having been there. Uh, Showing Up for Racial Justice has a chapter in Boston, like completely normal anti-racism work. Uh, Voices for Racial Injustice is one of the big ones. I'm not sure if it's even on here, I don's see it on the map, but that's when they mention a lot. Oh, Left Jab, I should mention because it's going to come up a lot during these, these documents. Left Job is

0:06:46 Lydia: For peace. Cool.

0:06:46 Thomas: Well

0:06:59 Lydia: Yeah.

0:07:16 Lydia: Very violent. Yeah.

0:07:17 Matt: A boxing club. Uh, they teach you how to box, so you know, look out. Uh

0:07:23 Thomas: There was that big boxing attack on ICE agents, yeah.

0:07:27 Matt: The mass boxing, yeah.

0:07:28 Thomas: Not

0:07:28 Matt: Uh, maybe that's why they got the gloves. Yeah. That's

0:07:29 Lydia: And What's his name? Isn't, like, the center of the ring, a mic comes down out of nowhere to start announcing It, yeah. Is that his name? Oh,

0:07:33 Matt: Right, yeah.

0:07:37 Thomas: Even close. Are you talking about Bruce Buffer? Okay, I wasn't sure See, I, I wasn't sure if you're going for, like, an in-universe reference, though, like you're gonna have someone from ICE be that guy.

0:07:37 Lydia: Yeah.

0:07:40 Matt: Know his name. Yep.

0:07:47 Lydia: No.

0:07:47 Thomas: So you know what I mean? Yeah.

0:07:48 Lydia: No. I wanted him, but is that like boxing prejudice, like, did I just, like, because I called him Vinny was that bad

0:07:49 Thomas: No. You gotta go, well, Well, now the fact is, I mean, they are. Yes, that's anti-Italian or something. But no, they all right. So that makes sense. Like UFC, you know, they literally fought at the White House and, like, their whole, they're very, they're very close. It works. But if you take any group of or just, like, just get a bunch of logos, like we could just get, get a bunch of logos of anything and then put a bunch of arrows from them and be like, they all, roads lead to the conspiracy of something. Yeah. That's right. Our parent teacher club, there

0:08:15 Matt: Yep. There's The WWE, everybody's in on this. Yeah, yeah.

0:08:27 Lydia: Yeah. PTO, yeah, that's

0:08:27 Thomas: Yeah.

0:08:29 Matt: And that's about the level of organization of the intelligence they have here. We're going to have some fun looking at these reports, but we'll start by going through the indictments and the defense things. You can see kind of what this is up to, but we've got a lot to talk about. We should get to it.

0:08:41 Thomas: Well, You tell me, though, what is this from? Like, what legal action in us getting this exactly? Exactly, no,

0:08:46 Matt: So the indictment that we'll be looking at is lead defendant from this is Isaac Sant, but I think that there are about 14 others. And we're going to go through the indictment a little bit so you can see the horrific things with which they are charged. You will not believe the number of signal chats that were exchanged in the making of this indictment. Can you believe it?

0:09:02 Thomas: Listener discretion is advised, by the way, yeah, right, yeah

0:09:05 Matt: Right. You're going hear a lot about signal. And if you're not ready for encrypted messaging, you know, it's an adult subject. Remember from Prairieland that there was at least one person who was indicted for adding people to a Signal chat and then removing people from a Signal chart, right?

0:09:16 Thomas: You're damned if you do, damned if You don't, I think it was if you added them, you're in the conspiracy, if you get rid of them, You're in The Conspiracy, what am I supposed to do, oh

0:09:19 Matt: Yeah. That, I mean, the overt acts in this are so much less than Prairieland, fortunately, that the time these people are facing is going to be less than Prairieland, but there's very real possibility that we've got jail time for the stuff we're gonna be looking at. So yeah.

0:09:35 Lydia: Crazy spread.

0:09:35 Matt: As funny as some of this is, it's, it's also not, I

0:09:34 Thomas: My god, it Matt, can't we just have a nice funny thing, apparently not, can

0:09:42 Matt: We'll get back to the sandwich trial, I promise. We're going to finish it off because

0:09:45 Thomas: Win. I mean, can we have these, these people win so that, that doesn't then we can all just be fun. Yeah, okay.

0:09:47 Matt: I So I hope a lot of them do. And honestly, with the stuff that's going to be coming out, I think from what happened in the grand jury and from how badly ICE put this case together, maybe, uh, you know, the, the rest of the discovery they're going to be getting, I think they might really might prejudice the case quite a lot. We'll see. Um,

0:10:02 Thomas: But

0:10:02 Lydia: This far and wide so we can just keep shaming the government because this is insane.

0:10:05 Matt: No, I want to talk about this. I appreciate you saying that. Is that we want to make sure that we see what these tactics are now and we call them out and we show how stupid this is, because ICE has so much money right now. They have been given so much money to do this kind of thing. Um, know, we just talked in opening arguments about the, the gloves they just invested in for $20 million that, you know, just designed to torture people without incurring too much damage. Got money to waste, money to burn. And they're going to be sending undercover agents. We're going see what these undercover agents are up to. But this is the stuff that's happening with your tax dollars.

0:10:06 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:10:33 Thomas: The one kind of bottleneck for them is competent lawyers, right? Like competent prosecutors. They don't have like that many that are actually competent, right? Yeah.

0:10:42 Matt: Short supply. That's true.

0:10:43 Thomas: The more we shame them for the shit they do, I, I think that may get even less, you know, or, or if it's sanctionable stuff. I just hope are, Are we going to get any, was there grand jury stuff in this that we get to have, or is that just

0:10:43 Matt: And Yeah. There's going to one transcript we can do a little reading of. There is some fun on there. Yeah. There's more coming.

0:10:57 Thomas: We need we need recurring

0:10:59 Matt: I know.

0:10:59 Thomas: Grand jury person? Whoever it was, it was just like seems like bullshit.

0:11:03 Matt: It's so good. Yeah.

0:11:05 Thomas: Oh, man. Well, we'll see. All right. We'll take that break and then we'll dig into all the horrific fascism and fun that is Master of Puppets.

0:11:05 Matt: Yeah, all

0:11:15 Lydia: And all

0:11:24 Thomas: Right, Matt, where do you want to start us off? That damn entitlement.

0:11:26 Matt: Right, obey your master. Damn indictment, let's pull it up. Uh, is the damn indictment. That is literally what it's called. Um, we've got United States of America versus all of these people and All their aliases.

0:11:36 Lydia: Their aliases. Donkey.

0:11:38 Matt: AKA A.K.A. Doug. I like how Douglas' alias is Doug.

0:11:38 Thomas: Oh, wow. Donkey Doug.

0:11:41 Lydia: Doug. Any Good Place watchers out there?

0:11:44 Thomas: Oh, Man.

0:11:44 Lydia: The best. I understand Well, sorry, very quickly. I understand, like, yeah, if you go by a nickname or something like that that's very, very different from your name, you get that, but yeah, Doug, like, AKA Doug for Douglas, it's like, okay, yeah.

0:11:45 Matt: Right. So these yeah, good.

0:11:58 Thomas: It's What Yeah, is that just, well, good point, is that an attempt to make it seem more sinister or is that what normally happens in law stuff? Like, if I'm, I being indicted for something and yeah, I'm Thomas, but like some people call me like Big T, but just for fun, you know, like it's not really part of anything. Are they still need, yeah, Eli calls me T-Dog for fun.

0:11:58 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:12:13 Lydia: -Dog. Yeah.

0:12:19 Thomas: Do they need to say that? Like, what is the, I would think that this would only matter if like on the streets you are known as whatever, you know?

0:12:27 Matt: Well, I think for this purpose, if he's calling you T -Dog in a signal chat in which he's planning, you know, to show up and yell at ICE officers, then you might have some problems.

0:12:35 Thomas: But I'm actually asking for the law thing. Like, when does that matter? Indictment wise that they actually need to say like, here's all.

0:12:41 Matt: That's what I'm saying, is if it's in the evidence, right, if you're being referred to throughout the evidence you're introducing, right?

0:12:42 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, okay. If it's in the evidence. Oh my God. I got you. Okay.

0:12:47 Matt: So in the signal chats, so you're going to see references to names that are not their names, but like like what he said

0:12:50 Thomas: Okay, hold on. New, new tool unlocked. I'm going to be indict, unindictable because I'm gonna have so many nicknames and all the evidence like I'm Gonna have, I'm going to require people to call me a different 128 -bit hash every single message. Just an impossible length of thing every single message, and then that's how I'll get them. They won't be able to print.

0:12:54 Matt: Yeah that's right yeah

0:13:09 Thomas: They want to have enough paper.

0:13:09 Matt: They'll never find you. That's

0:13:10 Thomas: They'll be out of ink.

0:13:04 Lydia: Yeah, do

0:13:11 Matt: Fine no

0:13:12 Lydia: Have to put it though on the cover page? Because I feel like if it's an evidence, right, that like there's plenty of other opportunities to, to cross reference, yeah, names and aliases there. This, this does feel more like,

0:13:14 Matt: Yeah no, I think

0:13:15 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, are they trying to make it seem more sinister?

0:13:24 Matt: They are. I think they are. They, I mean, and again, like, I mean, you wouldn't necessarily know that Dustin goes by Sparky, right? But like, you're gonna figure it out, and also in the indictment, as you'll see, scroll down a little further, um, know, you're to see that they use like, yeah uh

0:13:35 Thomas: But Brian Stillwell Applin going by aka Tiny. I like that. Okay, that one's good. Keep that one. I'm fine. Donkey

0:13:40 Matt: There is one actually I wish they'd put it in the caption. The other alias, oh no, it is there. The other alias for Doug is on the top of page two, which is pretty funny

0:13:45 Lydia: D -Money

0:13:46 Thomas: Doug D-Money. Oh, that's all one name, D money big dog or for, uh, wow and so this is just okay, so it is because in the chats they all have, like, funny handles or something.

0:13:46 Lydia: Big Dog Orf Orf. That's all one name. Oh, Doug, if you're listening, we love it.

0:13:47 Matt: Yeah that's Doug also Doug, yeah So

0:14:00 Thomas: Okay that's great

0:14:00 Matt: You got to keep them going straight, yeah, that is why

0:14:00 Thomas: Oh some Okay, new rule: all terrorist, uh, chats that you're in have a really obscene nickname, like just a bunch, so it'll be really funny, you know, just like a gratuitously insane saying. Yeah.

0:14:10 Lydia: Yeah.

0:14:12 Matt: On, yeah.

0:14:13 Thomas: Yeah, oh boy. Okay, well, we're on, we're on the first page. We got, we've gotten as far as the titles or whatever, the first stage. Terrorists.

0:14:22 Matt: Yeah. So the first count is, uh, to impede or injure a federal officer, which also was involved in the Broadview cases. Um, basically, as we talked about, the Broadview situation, which involved Kata Bigazil and others, and actually all prominent people that were all indicted in that case, they happen to all be in the same place at the same time at a protest. That was pretty much the extent the conspiracy. These are not people that agreed ahead of time. They made eye contact at some point, I guess. When they decided to block a car you know yeah, right, yeah see

0:14:46 Lydia: Yikes.

0:14:41 Thomas: Oh wow well you didn't tell me that you're telling me we had criminal Cat Abu Zela on the, uh, and you didn't tell me that she had made eye contact with somebody else at a protest. Matt, you've left me open to so much, you know, know, liability here.

0:14:56 Matt: True, that's right. We're not even credible at this point. We're not giving these details, honestly. That's my one weird trick for not getting indicted for conspiracy: I never make eye contact. There you go, easy.

0:14:58 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:15:04 Lydia: There you go. Smart. Very smart.

0:15:06 Thomas: People on the spectrum, unindictable. You heard it here first.

0:15:08 Matt: That's why, way that's right Exactly. It's like, uh, there's people that don't have fingerprints, like they exist, you know. That's perfect, perfect crime. I got a few of those in my client base. Um, No, there's like some people genetically that, like, you don't know how to burn them off. Some people just can't capture a fingerprint. It's very rare, but I've had it happen.

0:15:10 Lydia: Oh wow.

0:15:14 Thomas: That's interesting. Wait, for real? Huh. Wow.

0:15:24 Matt: Yeah. Uh, Anyway, so the conspiracy here, let's go down to page two, and you can see the way they summarize basically what they've been up to in paragraph two. Love

0:15:25 Thomas: Damn.

0:15:32 Lydia: Defendants were members and associates of Twin Cities Direct Action, TCDA, which later changed its name to Direct Action Minnesota, DAM, an dedicated and committed to direct action against federal law and immigration enforcement. Direct action refers to disruptive and obstructive tactics used by participants to forcibly challenge, block, or stop immigration raids, detentions, and deportations. DAM describes itself as, quote, as a decentralized coalition of working-class people engaged in various forms of community defense against the current federal occupation happening within the wider metro area and against state and a far-right violence more broadly. Yeah.

0:15:40 Matt: That, great choice

0:16:08 Thomas: Okay. This is so funny because I think what's really happening is, due to the split in America, what's actually happening when, when these assholes are writing this is, it's like, later changed its name to Direct Action Minnesota, an organization dedicated and committed to direct action against federal law and immigration enforcement. Direct action refer explosion. Yeah, but like, Lydia is just reading it, it's like, like the corporate, like, brochure for direct action. Direct action refers to but it's Also, also because it's also because, like, that is kind of, I mean, yeah, it's, they take direct action, but I really think when they write this, they are, in their mind, they think they're describing, like, the worst of the worst, you know, 9-11 terrorists or something.

0:16:22 Matt: Right Right, totally. Oh yeah, right

0:16:24 Lydia: Yeah straight yeah I'm not doing my Pete Hegseth voice for this, yeah

0:16:55 Thomas: Yeah

0:16:55 Matt: Right, and direct action doesn't mean a mass shooting. It means you show up and watch them and and like maybe At the most, we put up blockades in the street to keep them from certain streets, like they do that too, which is, you know, more questionable, but it's still not violence. And I want to point out that, you know, when I read a decentralized coalition of working-class people engaged in community defense, I think that's awesome. That's incredibly cool. And they read that as terror.

0:16:58 Thomas: Yeah yeah

0:17:00 Lydia: And blow whistles maybe it

0:17:15 Thomas: Mostly think, like, where are you guys finding the time, you saints? Like, these people are amazing, yeah well

0:17:16 Matt: Right no they're incredible. They, the level of organization and the structure, we'll see some of this obviously, but then again, it's not like structure in the Indifa sense of structure, in a sense of like they, they know their communities, they have organized Signal groups for each community, you know, their own touch. Like, it's great, and this is all organic. This is just really good organizing. Uh, they hate it.

0:17:34 Lydia: Also feels like much, like, more aligned with the idea of, like, militias, right, and the right to form a militia, not necessarily with arms necessarily, but like Like, yeah, community defense against the current federal occupation, as is our right as United States citizens. So, mm

0:17:41 Matt: Yeah yeah I mean This is exactly the stuff the right says it wants, right? Is like the right to, to watch the government and to bear arms against them

0:17:50 Lydia: -hmm.

0:17:52 Thomas: They had the, wasn't the, why am I thinking Bundy's? Was that what it was? Yeah, the yeah Amen Bundy, or whatever, like all that, they literally do, like, actual terrorism with weapons and prevent, you know, like, real stuff, and sometimes they get punished for it, sometimes they're just like, well, you know, you guys seem really mad, so we'll, we'll say, you know, we forgive you for being really mad and taking people hostage and having guns if you just kind of quit it. A

0:17:52 Matt: Yeah the, uh, yeah, mm -hmm yeah yeah yep right

0:17:58 Lydia: Oh, right. Yep.

0:18:19 Matt: Right, exactly. Now look, is the worst they can do in paragraph two, they're trying to lead with the best they've got, right? Check out what the next sentence here about Damn also trains. Yep.

0:18:28 Lydia: Also trains its members in the use of shields against law enforcement, surveillance, event planning. Okay. Role differentiation.

0:18:35 Thomas: Literal only defensive thing, like cool yeah

0:18:39 Lydia: And rapid mass mobilization against ICE enforcement actions.

0:18:38 Matt: Community defense yep getting people to show up and watch and, and protect their neighbors and again yeah event planning yes yes, yeah these People can put on a wedding, let me tell you. Uh, yeah, so exactly

0:18:47 Thomas: Event planning

0:18:45 Lydia: I'm sorry. Event planning. That's hilarious oh my God yeah yes give them jobs, then federal government sounds like we could use their, their know-how. Many

0:18:56 Matt: Um Four, you get on a paragraph where this is kind of the best they can do to try to explain why this is Antifa.

0:19:02 Lydia: Self-proclaimed, quote, anti-fascist or, quote, Antifa groups in the United States exist at the local level in small units called affinity groups. Antifa groups frequently blend anarchist and communist views. BCWC is a Minneapolis-based Antifa affinity group committed to militant class struggle, community self-defense, and revolution.

0:19:21 Matt: All of those things are legal. I just want to point, well, I mean, revolution arguably, but like But like, the emphasis throughout the Antifa and throughout the stuff that you're going to see that we're going to read is defense. That is what they're doing. They're who are prepared to take the blows if they need to be out front. Um, you, is the worst they can say about it, right? They are going to describe milton class struggle in the next sentence, and it just doesn't sound like anything. It doesn't crime. A

0:19:24 Thomas: Yeah oh

0:19:41 Lydia: Class trouble includes disrupting rallies, digital campaigning, community organizing, and physical confrontation often justified as collective self -defence. BCWC members advocate, promote, and utilize militant tactics and violence. BCwC members are intricately involved in the planning and execution of direct actions. The Ray Rainbolt Memorial Shooting Club is another other Minneapolis -based Antifa affinity group dedicated to, quote, community self -defense.

0:20:07 Matt: Gun club, which is again, completely legal. Second Amendment gun club

0:20:07 Thomas: Well they're yeah I mean they hate guns. They're not the right

0:20:11 Matt: Absolutely, and organized groups of people with guns. You know, that certainly the right has no, no truck with that. Um, the Ray Rainbow, by the way, was a super cool, uh, Sioux Nation organizer, organizer from the thirties who has a union organizer. So they, they honor him through all of this. So check out five.

0:20:12 Thomas: Oh nice damn

0:20:26 Lydia: Members worked closely with rapid response networks to identify and Harass federal immigration and law enforcement officers in order to harass and prevent officers from performing their official duties. RRNs, the rapid response network, are, quote, inherently militant with the, quote, explicit aim of combating and stopping a federal agent with a gun.

0:20:29 Thomas: Members yeah

0:20:43 Matt: Okay, I just have to point out that sentence, the explicit aim of combating and stomping a federal agent with a gun, not with guns, but the guy has a gun that you're trying to stop.

0:20:53 Lydia: The federal agent has a gun dam

0:20:53 Thomas: I

0:20:54 Matt: I don't know what the quote is even from, but like, they're trying to make that, I think they're starting to be a little ambiguous about that quote, but it's not in Vegas that's

0:21:00 Lydia: Members utilize the Whipple. Watch signal group chat, which facilitates the identification of federal immigration and law enforcement vehicles and documents identifying information such as license plate numbers in databases. The databases include information like whether a vehicle has been identified as belonging to federal law enforcement, when it was last seen, how many times it was seen, the kinds of activities it was engaged in, if it was in a caravan, and if someone saw federal agents with tactical gear inside, all to help determine how aggressive the response to that particular vehicle should be. Dam, members often rely on information and intelligence produced by the Whipple Watch and other Sigma group chats to target, harass, and confront federal immigration and law enforcement officers. Once someone relays information about a federal immigration or law enforcement officer's location, quote, dispatchers relay, quote, verified information to, quote, commuters who deploy. Okay, okay, commuters who deployed to

0:21:50 Matt: What they call themselves. Yeah, and Like It, yeah.

0:21:50 Lydia: Oh. Okay. Yeah.

0:21:53 Thomas: Actually gonna ask you while we're paused on that, how much of this is them attaching these, like, trying to make it sound more organized and fancy than it is, like RRNs and the blah, um, is it that, like, they use all that nomenclature? Oh

0:22:06 Matt: What I understand, and just observing and being around, uh, these groups, they do use these, uh, because it's A great way to organize and also, uh Commuters are just kind of a cute way to refer to these people that are following ICE around. Um, they do have, like, basically people on watch, on call, that are dispatching, that are like, you know, we've had a sighting over here, can go check it out, we think, you know, can you get this license plate, you know, that kind of stuff. Um, then the verified part is really important.

0:22:11 Thomas: Okay, sure. Yeah.

0:22:27 Thomas: It's can all almost liken it to, like, a neighborhood watch like it literally is that there are people, um, your neighbors, right? Mean, isn't that what we're talking about here? Imagine if it was, like, I don't know, that, you know, a child abductor, they'd be all about, like, oh yeah, you can, you know, form this group, you can have them watch, you can use whatever, you know, uh, or, um, uh, or whatever for them that you want to. But the minute it's like, well, they're being abducted by mass people who, you know, might be federal law enforcement, so you're not allowed to do any of this.

0:22:30 Matt: It is that's Exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. That's Right, yeah.

0:22:30 Lydia: Yeah.

0:22:59 Matt: Yeah.

0:22:59 Lydia: Also, like, so much more insane stuff that happens on Nextdoor, like, not even about this. It's So ridiculous.

0:23:03 Thomas: Yeah.

0:23:04 Matt: Totally. Right. Yeah. I think I saw a Black guy in my neighborhood, basically. Yeah, uh

0:23:05 Lydia: Yeah.

0:23:09 Thomas: Well that'd be fine, you, you can, can have those groups all day. Wait

0:23:09 Lydia: Exactly, the

0:23:11 Matt: Yeah. We need that, obviously. Uh, wanted you to read this paragraph in particular because this is what they're actually mad about. None of this stuff is a crime. This is all completely legal, but it's what they are trying to stop with this indictment, because the purpose of this indictment, as with so many other things the Trump administration is doing, is just to harass. And I mean, this is actual lawfare. This is the word that they keep using, but this is what lawfare looks like, and that's why I want to really read it, because this is the heart of it, even though they're not charged with this kind of stuff. This is why they're here.

0:23:36 Thomas: They're not charged with this stuff? What do you mean? Oh. They're just outlining it in the, okay.

0:23:38 Matt: Really You'll see that they're charged with the organizing. Yeah. They're charged with kind of things around it, but they can't really charge them with, they, they have to try to say

0:23:41 Thomas: Yeah.

0:23:45 Lydia: Actions that they've taken

0:23:46 Matt: Right.

0:23:45 Thomas: This is all freedom of everything.

0:23:46 Lydia: Yeah. That's

0:23:47 Matt: You're allowed to write down license plates and say that's an ICE truck, like, I mean, people should know that right um a known own ICE vehicle, you should be aware. So yeah, we're going to finish the paragraph.

0:23:50 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:23:49 Lydia: Freedom Yeah. Yeah. Uh, these folks deploy to the identified area to to interfere with, prevent, hinder, delay, impede, and directly confront federal immigration enforcement, including, quote, de-arresting people that federal law enforcement have arrested. Commuters follow federal immigration enforcement officers from locations like the Bishop Henry Whipple Federal Building to the officers' residences and other locations. Often work with, quote, co-pilots who communicate with, unquote, dispatchers in real time. Dispatchers relay identifying information about immigration and law enforcement vehicles to commuters and co-pilots. Dam members often engage in, quote, commuting tactics with other members.

0:24:30 Matt: The horror, the horror of all of this. It's just unimaginable, the violence they're doing to these ICE officers. I want to mention de -arresting, that is an actual expression that they use. Of course, there are people who are prepared to put themselves between a federal officer and an arrestee. As I've said many times in the show, that isn't advised. I would not do it. You're going to be charged with a federal crime. But it doesn't actually require, as I understand it, there's sort of an escalation of de - arrest. These are very well -known and practiced tactics. And often it has worked in Minneapolis and other places. If you have enough people just show up and make enough noise, ISIL just go away. That's a de -arrest.

0:25:01 Matt: I mean, that counts, right? That just gets them out of there.

0:25:01 Lydia: The

0:25:00 Thomas: I I was gonna ask, like, how often is that successful? Can't be that much, right?

0:25:06 Matt: I've heard plenty of stories where it does actually, where they're just kind of like, they can't carry out the action because there's too many people there, you know?

0:25:06 Thomas: Oh, okay. But I guess the version in my head that's, like, literally they, you know, they physically, like, stop ICE, you know, take someone back and and violently de-arrest them. You, that doesn't happen, right?

0:25:17 Matt: Yeah. Right. You're just going to get arrested. Yeah. I means, that's the truth of it, but

0:25:21 Thomas: Yeah. It's more like you cause ICE to stop by just, it's not being worth it to them at that moment, right? I

0:25:24 Matt: Right. So let's get into the purposes of the conspiracy because find the crime.

0:25:35 Lydia: Purposes of the conspiracy include the following. A. Preventing the enforcement of federal immigration law by force, intimidation, and threats.

0:25:42 Matt: Not going to see any of that in this indictment, but sure.

0:25:44 Thomas: I hate to interrupt. What is the conspiracy? Have they said what that is? Okay.

0:25:49 Matt: Basically, so count here is the conspiracy to impede or injure a federal officer. I misspoke. I'm sorry. For this count, what we're talking about here, they're saying basically that these people acted in some kind of concert to impide. Obviously, there's no injury here. They can't say that. To do anything to stop a federal officer from carrying out their jobs, and this is the same thing that Broadview people were charged with. Okay.

0:26:06 Thomas: Yeah.

0:26:08 Lydia: Opposing the authority of the United States government. C. Preveting, hindering, or delaying by force the execution of the laws governing the identification, detention, and removal of non-citizens, to include the Immigration and Nationality Act. And D, preventing, impeding, and interfering federal law enforcement from discharging their duties, including enforcement of federal immigration law by force, intimidation, and threats.

0:26:11 Matt: Yeah.

0:26:29 Thomas: These people rule that.

0:26:31 Matt: No, they really do. They're pretty cool. Um, So this is a very long indictment, as you can see. We're not going to read all of it. Um, Yeah.

0:26:44 Lydia: Pages, folks.

0:26:45 Matt: That's quite a lot. And the actual overt acts, um, if you go down, so the, just, let's read some samples of some of these overt acts, because these are, each one of these things they're laying out is a thing that they say they can use to prove the conspiracy.

0:26:58 Lydia: Right, here's some examples. On or about January 11, 2026, Davis moderated an event called Emergency Meeting on Resistance to ICE Operation on Central Avenue Southeast in Minneapolis. Minneapolis. During the meeting, attendees broke out into the following groups based on their assigned roles for January 23rd, 2026, direct action at the Whipple Building: hard blockade, soft blockade, mass commuting, civil disobedience, and march groups. At the meeting, Sant, another of the defendants, introduced Davis, stating he was part of the Black Cat Workers Collective before

0:26:59 Thomas: Give me a bit more nicknames, come on. Yeah.

0:27:30 Lydia: Yeah, you went through all the trouble of putting it in the on the first page guys just

0:27:32 Thomas: Give me some cool ones where's dot what is it big dog that wasn't that was so good yeah I'll find it go ahead d

0:27:34 Lydia: Yeah yeah I don't remember before the meeting ended an unindicted co-conspirator created a signal chat created a single chat group called tcda where individuals from the meeting joined to coordinate actions for the january 23rd 2026 direct action at whipple I

0:27:45 Thomas: Money big dog or for here he is

0:27:57 Matt: Right, and then there's a Facebook post about how non isn't necessarily going to save us, we need to become ungovernable, stop the Nazis, etc., etc., and now, five is pretty funny, because I remember seeing this on Blue Sky when this happened, and this, this is a big victory because it says that they broke into FBI vehicles and stole items. Um, vehicles were wide open, the door was wide open

0:28:15 Lydia: Was Gonna say Like, like, at the very least, they were unlocked. But the doors were actually open.

0:28:16 Matt: Yes. Yeah. I believe that somebody took a picture of one of the doors was hanging open, and so didn't actually know a gun had been stolen. That's not great.

0:28:20 Lydia: Oh, my God.

0:28:25 Thomas: No.

0:28:25 Matt: Uh, The other stuff that was stolen was paperwork, and they mentioned here about how ICE, I think they kind of were overwhelmed and ran away. Um, you know, some folks I raided an ICE vehicle for paperwork, so they stole paper. And then number eight, Sant wrote an article, that's literally one of the things, a first-hand account. Um, like, they're so embarrassed about this article. I mean, like, you see that the quote here from in the aftermath, exactly

0:28:26 Thomas: That's not good. Why?

0:28:47 Lydia: In the aftermath, Sant wrote, quote, the officers lost control of the area and retreated, ceding the streets to those who had defied them.

0:28:54 Thomas: Is that in an indictment that you wrote an article

0:28:56 Matt: It's journalism He's literally describing what happened. Yeah.

0:29:00 Lydia: Continued. Maybe this is what does it, you guys. Maybe this isthe illegal part.

0:29:02 Thomas: Oh because you can Oh, you're not allowed to continue. You

0:29:04 Lydia: Yeah.

0:29:04 Thomas: Can, yeah, yeah.

0:29:05 Lydia: Quote, ICE agents abandoned several vehicles in the area. Demonstrators opened up the vehicles and found identity cards, paperwork, license plates, operational plans, tactical gear, and other items. Okay, yeah.

0:29:16 Thomas: Mean, so I was gonna say, I mean, like, look, as lefty as we are, I think the people who stole a gun from a, like, cop car, whatever it is, like that, that's, I mean you're gonna get in trouble for that, but I get I want the part I want to make, um, I'm understanding right, is it's not like we're reading the indictment for, like, Fred Gun Stealer for stealing a gun, right? It's, it's that they're, they're trying to indict anyone and everyone who was, like, part of a protest for any kind of like bad actions that some random person did. Correct me me if I'm wrong. I don't know if it varies by incident, but do they even have the actual perpetrator of whoever stole the gun or the papers?

0:29:23 Matt: That's stupid don't do that. Exactly.

0:29:26 Lydia: I mean that's still a crime.

0:29:35 Matt: Yes. No.

0:29:55 Matt: I mean, they don't know, I think. They clearly they don't know because I don't name them Yeah, right.

0:29:57 Thomas: Right. So they're just trying to indict this conspiracy of people who are on Facebook or whatever the fuck it is, because there was a crime that was committed. By all means, you're going to have to punish the guy who stole a gun. I with that, actually. I don't think you should steal a gun. That's not good.

0:30:09 Matt: This just mad because they don't know who it was, you know, so

0:30:11 Thomas: Yeah. And you know, so, so you know what happens when they don't know who stole our fucking bikes or anything for it? They go, well, we don't fucking know. That's what they do. Imagine if the minute, like, you know our packages being stolen or any normal, like just suburban, whatever, which is like, I get, it's not the highest priority. I get it. And it's fine. But like, that's normally what happens. Or, Know, I shouldn't use that as an example because the, the solve rate for murders is like nationally, like what? It's like 50%. It's not good.

0:30:11 Matt: Yep.

0:30:12 Lydia: Stealing anything is is also just not good. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Better

0:30:19 Matt: Not

0:30:39 Thomas: So there's a whole bunch of, you literal murderers who, when they don't have the evidence, they don'T know who did it. They're like, well, I don'T KNOW, MAN. WE 'LL KEEP THE CASE OPEN.

0:30:39 Matt: Great. Not great. Yeah.

0:30:47 Lydia: Luck next time.

0:30:48 Thomas: YEAH. IT'S LIKE, WELL, BECAUSE IT'S THESE THESE, CRY BABY ICE OFFICERS, THEY'RE LIKE, SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR THIS. OUR PAPERS WERE STOLEN FROM OUR CAR BECAUSE WE LEFT IT OPEN LIKE FUCKING IDIOTS. SO INDICT THE ENTIRE SOCIAL MEDIA OF MINNESOTA.

0:30:48 Matt: Yeah. Exactly. Running away. Yeah, right.

0:30:56 Lydia: Yep. People who talked about it.

0:31:01 Thomas: YEAH, IT'S Like, THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING, RIGHT, MAN? I JUST just want to make sure I'm understanding.

0:31:01 Matt: Yeah. No. And, and it's the same theory as Broadview, where it's just like, you were there and you're responsible for anything that happened because you were organizing with these people. Yeah.

0:31:08 Thomas: Yeah. Want to cut that off because I'm, I think a lot of people, cause this is so dumb and weird that I think it will be confusing. I think people will think, oh, but they stole a gun from a cop car. So, you know, these lefties are trying to say you should be allowed to do that. It's like, no, that's not what's going on here at all. That took me a second. Uh, and maybe I'm just dumb, but it took me second with a Prairie Land to kind of understand that because I, I, to the normal non-fascist, it's of, and to the non-lawyer it's kind of hard to understand that's what's going on.

It's not that they, oh, we got a bad guy who did this thing, fine, fair enough. Like, your best to make your case against the guy in Prairieland who shot and self, you know, he can argue self-defense, or apparently no, he wasn't allowed to or something, but like, do your best, fine. That's one person who did a crime. That's not what they're doing here. They're trying to indict just who has, like, a name of a group, like if you've ever started a club that has a logo and you communicated

0:31:32 Matt: Yeah.

0:32:01 Thomas: Involving this, you're now indicted in a federal conspiracy facing what, Matt? Like we didn't even talk about the time people are potentially facing, but it's going to be years, if not decades, right?

0:32:01 Lydia: Oh

0:32:10 Matt: But I mean, if they can prove this conspiracy

0:32:11 Thomas: If they, yeah, if they're facing, yeah. If they could, yeah?

0:32:12 Matt: Yeah. Yeah. We'll get to their accounts, but yeah, no, this is, uh, it's not not as much as Prairie Land, fortunately, but it's still, I mean, this is federal prison. This is serious. This is, you know, these are not state charges, um, you, you scroll down, you can see it's basically just chats. They're just all these basic back and forths, and I'm not trying to cover for chats that are like, you know, meet me with a gun at midnight. These are like literally like at number 19, Applin created a new Signal chat group called New Friends and added Wagner and Sam. Applin messaged Kyle, meet Sam, Sam is coming up from Chicago, like that kind of stuff.

0:32:42 Lydia: My God. Done.

0:32:43 Thomas: Take back everything I said. This is a clearly terrorist stuff.

0:32:45 Lydia: Yeah.

0:32:47 Matt: And talking about building shields, right? Again, it's just like you're saying, like, just because these people are violent that they're going up against, right? Then they're getting ready to defend themselves. They know it, and

0:32:49 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. It's very important. And I just am trying to emphasize this because I don't want the takeaway to be that you should only have a problem with this if you're like a hardcore lefty. You know what I mean? Like, I really think, like, obviously we're pretty left and all that. But like, even your most normie of normies, if you are just a complete, you'd never done a thing wrong in your life and you're not in favor of any kind of militant anything, even, definitely still should be fully against and aware of how much they are railroading people for talking and fucking chats. It's not right, it's it's horrible, it's really bad.

0:33:03 Matt: Exactly. Yeah.

0:33:26 Lydia: Yeah.

0:33:26 Thomas: Oh

0:33:27 Lydia: Yeah.

0:33:24 Matt: Well know, as they point out further down here, that there's a tactic going on, uh, which there were probably, as they're pointing out, maybe eight to ten thousand people going on neighborhood patrols around Minneapolis, so many people, right? And the federal government went out of their way to find the people that, that the most militant, the, like, the, the handful of people, right? And that the Black Cat people, right? So these are these are anarchists, right? These are people that, and I know plenty of anarchists. They don't necessarily have to be violent, militant people, but they have their rights. 16, you can see they're talking about, and this is, you'll hear this kind of frustration a lot amongst these kinds of groups of like, these people are so afraid to do any physical resistance.

You know, this might be changing since Renee's murder. Is this again, remember, remember the atmosphere we're in in January in Minneapolis, right? We've got Renee Good and Alex Pretty within weeks of each other. And, you know, they're taking about the frustration they're feeling when you show up and the dispatcher says to stay 30 feet away and just take pictures, or they're complaining about the libs, which, you know, leftists do all the time, and this actually should say something. We encountered a ton of pushback from libs in every rapid response group whenever they're, because they, these people are pretty disciplined and they're saying like, don't talk about this stuff in our groups, right? We don't, they're going

0:33:40 Thomas: Like the clubs or the names or the, yeah. Mm -hmm Yeah.

0:34:24 Matt: To get attention.

0:34:24 Thomas: Well Especially because they might be fucking narcs, they might be undercover, and I had that in mind while you're saying this. How much of this do we find out necessarily when that's true? Like, do at the indictment phase, is that where they have to show their hand and be like, and this one was, was actually an agent the whole time, right?

0:34:24 Matt: Exactly. Right. No.

0:34:41 Matt: Yeah, it's coming out. There's going to be some reference to that, but this is what the discovery is for, and we're going to start to see this in the reports that we have, and there's much, many more coming, but But

0:34:45 Thomas: So for all we know a lot of that talk could be, have been encouraged by or whatever. That's why, like, honestly, online when you see these people who are trying to out left everybody and trying to, like, move stuff toward violence, it's like, I off, like, because who knows, like, it really could be. That, you know, how much budget they have now, Matt, like how many people are they going to put on that job of trying to foment violence in order to arrest people for violence?

0:34:48 Matt: Yeah, could start up. Yeah, sure, sure. Cheaper than gloves, actually. And I mean, and I've had that online all the time. And again, I think some of these people are legitimate and like actually just idiots. But sometimes people would be like asking me, like, why aren't you telling people to rise up in violence? And I'm like, do you know who you're talking to? Like, do you really think that I want to lose my law license and my ability to help the people I can help, and do the stuff I can do? Right. I mean, I'm not going to throw that away, and because, because some online leftist wants me to sound more militant. I mean, it's just not exactly, exactly, right?

0:35:20 Thomas: Yeah, I'm not saying they're all fake. Yeah.

0:35:38 Lydia: Yeah.

0:35:30 Thomas: Yeah, it's ridiculous. Probably not doing shit anyway. You absolutely true, though. The people you hear from the most, they're not the people in these indictments who are actually doing shit. You're not like they're out there actually doing it. They're not complaining to you on media.

0:35:47 Matt: That's right. Yeah. And I don't criticize diversities of tactics. I mean we have to have, and again, Antifa tactics read a lot about Antifa at this point. I have more reading to do. I have a more understanding to do it. I've talked to plenty of people who identify with these different movements.

0:35:58 Thomas: He's careful you're going to get indicted for that.

0:36:00 Matt: It's true. Just for saying I've red. We're getting there. Yeah.

0:36:00 Lydia: Like we found him, the puppet master.

0:36:03 Thomas: Yeah.

0:36:03 Matt: Well, I mean, let's hope I don't start writing about it. Apparently, that's the real crime. But it like defense. The emphasis is always on defense. It is being prepared to have people that are willing to put their bodies on the line, in the front lines, and to protect vulnerable people, to protect people of color and people that don't have immigration status, right? They're at these things. So they don't get in the line. And, you that that's all really respectable. I respect that work. And that takes a lot more courage, frankly, than I have physically. So, you know, I don't have as much respect for people who are going to talk about showing up and throwing bricks. There's no point to that. There just isn't. You're talking about heavily armed organizations like that. There's just no point. I don't understand it. But anyway, so you can keep going. I mean, overt acts include renting a U-Haul, renting a trailer, talking about renting a trailer, uh, up near a plumbing business for some reason.

0:36:08 Lydia: Yeah.

0:36:47 Thomas: What?

0:36:47 Matt: It just keeps going and going and going. There's mean, just to give you the kind of a taste of it here on, on page 17, the construction invoice number seven Signal chat group, like talking basically like how to get equipment together, right?

0:36:47 Thomas: Yeah. Let's let's read. let'S

0:36:59 Lydia: Cam, meet Kyle. Kyle is very generously offering a truck. Wagner responded, "What's up? Happy to help." Kennedy replied, "Hey Kyle, you're a hero. We need this bad to pull off our action tomorrow." Kennedy messaged, "Well, if, if you are willing to face possible arrest, it would be to use your truck to drive a trailer and deploy it with a small team of vetted folk to block a roadway, time permitting using chains to flip it. If you aren't comfortable with that, letting us borrow your truck will ensure we can make this action happen."

0:37:22 Matt: Is about as extreme as it gets. Like, this is about the most extreme stuff they're talking about, is potentially flipping a truck in the middle of the road, not hurting anybody. And again, it's not something I would do, but you are tactics and, and like, if you know, this is a, like a road into an immigrant neighborhood that they're going to be using that morning, whatever. I mean, I understand why they're doing it. I'm not condoning it. I'm just saying I understand why. But none of this is violence. None of it is even close to violence. Best they can do is saying that this is impeding. But, you know, they're not even saying what street they're going to be doing it on. But anyway,

0:37:45 Lydia: They also exchanged approximately 20 connected signal calls. That's an overt action. Okay.

0:37:49 Matt: Yeah. Actually kind of funny. But on 51, several individuals from the group threw large ice blocks at law enforcement vehicles. There's no alleged damage. Like the idea of throwing ice at ice. I'm Not saying you should do it, but it's kind of fun. It's also Minneapolis. There's an unlimited supply of it in January. So I get that. But yeah, again, not condoning. But again, we're talking about the last stuff. We're talking about gas masks with filters, right? Because we need to be prepared for tear gas because they're using it constantly. They tear gas children during that month. Like a whole bunch of people were like really violently tear gas for getting anywhere near facility.

0:38:20 Thomas: Want to prevent children from being tear gassed, you're a fucking terrorist. So, yeah,

0:38:23 Matt: Yeah, that's a an overt act. Yeah. Yeah. This is at the height of when there's two people, two completely innocent U .S. citizens have done have just been shot in the streets by ICE. So you can imagine that where things are at. I got a taste of it. I was there.

0:38:24 Lydia: Apparently.

0:38:37 Lydia: Also just have to say like them framing this as as overt acts is ridiculous. This is literally a timeline. I'm looking through it and it's at around 1135, you know, here's a text at approximately 1137 AM. Like it's literally just bit by bit going through a timeline of events that calling it an overt act.

0:38:54 Thomas: That's a good, good question. Yeah stupid question. What's an overt act, Matt?

0:38:58 Matt: It's anything that furthers the conspiracy, basically. So anything that, like, moves it along. And I mean, I guess that's I

0:39:04 Thomas: How granular do they, like, in a real conspiracy? Let's say we're let's say we're indicting the mafia, you know, granular do they get, well, he walked, he unlocked his car that morning, that's drive to the conspiracy, it's like, how, you know, are we getting at what point is it like, okay, well

0:39:07 Lydia: Something like this happen? Yeah, exactly.

0:39:19 Matt: It can be to the point that, like, renting a restaurant room to meet and have all the capos get together. Like, if you're the guy that rented the room, you're part of the conspiracy, right? I mean, that, that kind of stuff, I can see it, uh, certainly these chats. Yeah, it can get very, very granular, but this point of this is harassment, obviously, but they're going extremely detailed because they want to look like there's something here, right? They want to looks like they've really got something.

0:39:40 Lydia: Always the sign of, like, a bullshitter though, like you're when turning in an essay or something like that for a class and if it goes on way too long, you're like, oh okay, this person didn't read the book or this person doesn't really know what they're talking about, it's all filler. So I think that's what's happening here too.

0:39:42 Matt: Yeah, right.

0:39:51 Thomas: This conspiracy had a lot of beautiful, good character, good characters, this conspiracy, um, yeah. A lot, a good language in the, in the avert acts messages.

0:39:56 Lydia: I think Yeah.

0:39:59 Matt: Webster's Dictionary Defines Conspiracy As, yeah.

0:40:02 Thomas: Well,

0:40:03 Lydia: Almost at that level, honestly, because

0:40:05 Matt: There's so many different things. There are hundreds and hundreds of overt acts alleged all the way through this. That you've gotten a taste of this indictment, which again people should just take a look at. It's very long, there's no reason for us to read all of it, but there's a lot of good stuff in there. Hundreds of hovered act, uh, gonna take a quick look at some of the memos that HSI is exchanging, uh, this is Homeland Security Investigations, the people who are doing this undercover work, and then we're to take a look at the defense motion, which outlines kind of what they have received in discovery and what they expect to receive, and kind of, like, the extent to which we're coming to learn that these people are being investigated and what it took to investigate them, because it gets truly absurd. There is some crazy stuff coming.

0:40:50 Thomas: Okay. So, I, I think we're gonna have to leave that as a, as so, uh, part two. So you're saying we're transitioning from the indictment that's outlining all kinds of, I mean, I, I'm gonna have trouble sleeping at night, uh, after reading a lot of the, yeah, these, these sickos who are sending messages like, okay, sounds, Sounds good. And see you there.

0:40:50 Matt: Yeah.

0:41:01 Matt: Knowing these people are out there? I know.

0:41:08 Lydia: Nice to meet you.

0:41:09 Thomas: Yeah,

0:41:09 Matt: Nice to meet you, Sam. Yeah, exactly.

0:41:10 Thomas: You got a truck.

0:41:10 Lydia: Yeah.

0:41:11 Matt: Jinx.

0:41:12 Thomas: Yes. So I will. I'm going to try to do some healing. I mean, get some therapy for for that. I just don't know.

0:41:18 Lydia: We've been through a lot, you know, we've been through a whole lot. We're going to do a lot today.

0:41:19 Thomas: Yeah. I mean, I feel truly Traumatized. I had to edit out the 90 minutes of crying that we did just over this, having to witness this. Next time in part two, which I'm sure you can get right away on patreon.com/cabalpod, we're going to get into the other side of it a little bit, the uh, the bullshit undercover crap. Is that what it's gonna be? Oh I

0:41:37 Matt: Yeah, quite a bit of that. And talk a little bit about kind of where this litigation is going. Yeah.

0:41:38 Thomas: Can't wait all Righty. Well, I guess we'll have to reconvene. Is it a conspiracy if we plan on coming back to record, Matt? Yeah, meet

0:41:47 Lydia: That's an overt act.

0:41:48 Matt: That's pretty overt, Thomas. Look out. Wait,

0:41:50 Thomas: Back here, uh, so how do I do the one weird trick, folks, could possibly, possibly meet back here to record still more if they wanted to.

0:41:53 Lydia: Nope, nope. Overt act.

0:41:59 Thomas: I don't know.

0:42:00 Lydia: -oh.

0:41:59 Matt: Are we recording this? Hold on. As your attorney, I don't know.

0:42:24 Thomas: Fascism and fun that

0:42:28 Lydia: D -Money Big Dog Orf Orf.

0:42:31 Thomas: Changed its name to direct action minnesota an

0:42:35 Matt: That's my one weird trick for not getting indicted for conspiracy I never make eye contact there

0:42:40 Lydia: Found him the puppet master

0:42:43 Matt: Cheaper than gloves, actually.