DOD294: Hi Bored, We're Dad

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's that's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired is the only part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: To dear old dads the podcast that's not boring I promise I'm Tom Curry I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick hello gentlemen that's

0:00:38 Thomas: Or if we are boring it's to you know it's a lesson I

0:00:41 Tom: Right if you as the audience do you remember I remember uh when I was in school I had a teacher who said maybe it's not the class that's boring maybe it'S YOU that's BORING have you ever heard that before like

0:00:52 Eli: They should

0:00:51 Thomas: Don't know I think it's pretty pretty much you that's a weird one

0:00:56 Tom: Was like I don't know man like mean you're fucking boring dude this is trigonometry this is fucking boring

0:00:59 Thomas: Does that work for like in the oscars where they're like hey the movie maybe you need to watch it it better. That there's, you know, it's

0:01:08 Tom: Should enjoy this fucking trigonometric class in high school that you'll never fucking use are

0:01:09 Eli: Should do that you entertain

0:01:14 Thomas: Responsibility to make a movie that entertains you. You have to be entertaining while watching my movie. That's what it is.

0:01:21 Eli: You while you watch

0:01:22 Tom: You not entertained no as a matter of fact I'm not I'm not entertained at all no it's fucking super boring I don't care about SINE OR COSINE AS IT

0:01:25 Eli: I'm not I hate this I hate you yeah you hate to see it all that all right here's my thing. Here's Gentlemen, speaking of boredom, because we're going to get into screens, we're gonna be talking about some screens today. I have spoken many a time on this channel about my greatest regret as a parent. Um, and foremost, of course, that the real father to my child is not Tom. I've said that before. I tried stealing his cum. He was, shall we say negative about it, but the, yes, not Jerry is the, is the least of what I would say about that. It was downright slappy. I would saying slappy, hurtful, chicanerous. Uh, no, the biggest regret I have had as a parent is when I set my my son up with his iPad. I set up YouTube kids cause I'm not a fucking crazy person. Um, I just gave him unrestricted access to YouTube kids. And it turned out that the stuff on YouTube kids fucking sucks. It's, not necessarily violent or sexual or awful. It just fuck a horrible, boring uh

0:01:34 Thomas: How's it

0:02:01 Tom: Not generous.

0:02:36 Eli: Repetitive insane uh right and I have lived as I've talked about many times on this show with that because there's no good way to be like daddy doesn't think the things you think are interesting are interesting right a worse message to send than look at these minecrafters screaming about the tnts that they're using somehow some way it It is actually worse than that. So I was like, fuck, what do I do? Other day, because of a miracle from God, Jesus specifically, that's the one we believe in, everybody, just in case you're wondering. You can't listen if you're not a Christian to this podcast, despite how Jewish I sound. No, Max to me after iPad time and he goes, Daddy. OK, And sorry, I need to clarify. There's aware there is a Reddit called That Happened.

0:02:36 Tom: Just bad, yeah. Yes.

0:03:26 Eli: Yeah. Is just people making up crazy, insane stories about things that happened to them, where it's like this girl came up to me at the gym and she was like, I've always considered myself a feminist. And then I was like Jordan Peterson. And she was Like, oh, my gosh, please be my father, my babies. Right. And a lot of that is people's kids saying lies, like lies about people's children. I'm like, oh, but daddy, don't people understand that if Zoran Mamdani redistributes the wealth, that there won't, that only the people who impact the system will benefit? So I'm about to say sounds like a crazy lie. It is not.

0:04:05 Thomas: Here's the other thing. Eli almost always lies too. That's the only thing. Like, yeah double.

0:04:11 Eli: But always lies is such a harsh term for does not let myself be restricted by reality when when in pursuit of a great story, a great tale, if you will.

0:04:21 Tom: On with your tales of Yik Yak, Eli. Nobody will stop you.

0:04:23 Eli: You my yik -yak tales of so he goes daddy so many things on my ipad are scary and horrible I was like yeah man fucking you want me to get rid of them and he's like yeah can you take those off and I Was like nice so I run over because again keep in mind this is my fantasy privacy, right? I think about this every time the fucking iPad turns on. I I have a fucking Sansa list in my head of the channels I'll block and the things, yes, Aria, yes. Aria did fucking Cagoran the Brave and the Hound. I'm just going to, everything I'm going to eliminate from that iPad, given the slightest opportunity. I

0:04:51 Thomas: Aria? I think you mean Aria. Yeah I would do that but but I can't remember a single one of the stupid fucking things that they, they'll be like, no, it's, it's Jordan watches or something. I don't know. Fucking. Yeah.

0:05:07 Eli: I'm dumb, stupid, stupid dumb.

0:05:13 Thomas: I'll be able to, I'll just be like that idiot. That one, that dumb one.

0:05:14 Eli: Fucking hate it. I hate these fuckers yeah exactly I hate all these fucker but I've had this plan in my head like I don't know if you've had okay I'm gonna say something a little bit blue so forgive me because I know I've been very not blue so far this thing do you have you had a partner you have a sexual fantasy right your partner and maybe you share it maybe talk about it right then one day your partner goes hey do you want to do that thing and I don't know about you guys but the times that that has happened to me I've been like oh it's today it's Christmas like I don'T like I DON'T have like why aren't I ready I should have had everything ready I have to go buy I Barney the Dinosaur costume but you stay right here I know

0:05:50 Thomas: I do. Okay.

0:05:58 Eli: Exactly which store has it I swear I'll be right back please don't move from your mindset right now that's how I am with my son is I'm like I am like oh my god please please, please, so I'm like, come on over buddy. And so I did it. I fucking deleted all the channel, right? The only piece of parenting advice I give to new parents is when you set your kid up with YouTube kids and they go, actually, I think we're not going to do the iPad. And I punched them in the face and they Go, ah, and I go, you are going to, you stupid fuck. You stupid fuck of course, you're going to the iPad eventually. It makes it easier. And this is the hardest thing in the the universe. Now, listen, say you're not going to want to set it to kids mode. You're not going to set up by age. You want to send it to custom channels. They have curated lists of things that you can just follow. You can see all the channels that are in it. Fucking do it. Set it up with PBS kids and size show kids. And this fucking lady who just does science experiments in this other fucking lady. Who reads stories and they're really funny and they, she's modernized them so there's like little winks to the parents fucking rules it's

0:07:01 Eli: So good I set it up and it fucking rocks and I set up a disney kids profile so he just sees the shit I want him to see he's watching fucking fint fucking fantasia and shit and I'm just ah fucking

0:07:01 Thomas: I need to do whatever this is. I actually didn't.

0:07:10 Tom: I'm listening to you right now.

0:07:13 Thomas: You got your kid to watch Fantasia. First off, that thing's horrifying. I hated that.

0:07:16 Eli: He watches fantasia multiple times a day he

0:07:20 Tom: I would so much rather have Fantasia playing in the background than literally anything the kids have ever watched over here. Oh my god what a joy that would be to have fucking gershwin playing in the background and not fucking minecraft screamers oh

0:07:33 Eli: Another tis benefit is he will watch fantasia but then for the ones that are too scary he'll just ask for the music I'm sorry what oh so now we're just I don't have to watch the big demon because the big demon on top of the house I warned him I was like hey buddy this one's fucked up you gotta understand people generation they're coming off world war ii and so pretty much anything that That is in Auschwitz. They're like. Ah. It's fine. So we cannot watch this one. It's going to be so scary.

0:07:41 Thomas: Even better yeah

0:08:02 Tom: Now we're like auschwitz is fine

0:08:04 Eli: Yeah. Now we're like out. They deserved it.

0:08:04 Thomas: Do you want to watch schindler's

0:08:06 Eli: We should have known.

0:08:06 Thomas: List instead of this this is too fucking scary

0:08:08 Eli: You won't watch it unless this is too scary. So he's like. And he. At first he was like. No. I don't want you to know. I was like alright. Here's what I'm going to do. Because I know you. You fucking pussy ass. Here's. What I'm gonna do. I'ma scroll forward. While it's paused. To the fucking demon on top of the church. I'm just going to show you. I'm. I'm sure. Gonna show you this motherfucker and his plans for you and my and me and he was like absolutely not fuck this guy so we just watch we just listen to carmina barana when we get to that part but yeah it fucking it just rules and he's fucking brain is better we're you know it's not minecraft and mario it's fucking it's and daniel tiger and emotions emotions

0:08:37 Tom: That's awesome yeah

0:08:40 Thomas: Fuck I need hey you get you get like a free redo with parenting right like don't do I get to like redo like all like no

0:08:50 Eli: I genuinely feel like I have gotten a free redo and I just I'm so and like the other thing is

0:08:57 Thomas: I mean I need to like start back over over it do you get a reset yeah like can I because I fucked this up this feel like the universe will understand hey I fucked up give me re -do

0:09:00 Eli: Time machine sauce yeah yeah yeah

0:09:01 Tom: Just rewind well how old can the kids be when you can do that safe haven thing you just drop them off and be like yeah these aren't these good anymore. I just, I, yeah, I don't want these ones anymore.

0:09:11 Eli: Not working yeah fireman every time we pass a firehouse I point at him huh I do give him a little

0:09:16 Thomas: I I want to do that but with me I'm not working can can a fireman be a the dad I don't know lydia

0:09:22 Eli: Yeah Yeah, and honestly, Lydia approves.

0:09:23 Tom: Lydia's ears perk up right now. Yeah.

0:09:25 Thomas: She's like no well she

0:09:27 Tom: Lydia pipes into the show. Yes, you can. Yes.

0:09:28 Thomas: Starts to say oh are you sure well well, are you, no, no. He's trying to read me.

0:09:35 Eli: Have a few months from the calendar that I'm willing to accept an automatic yes, but otherwise, I want, I wanted some input. Dear, no, gentlemen.

0:09:45 Thomas: That the end of this? No. What is the real thing? Oh, that was the thing that really happened was him saying, get what was the scary stuff then? I don't even understand.

0:09:49 Eli: That was, I don't fucking know. I

0:09:50 Tom: Well, were the things that were scary? I want to know. Yeah.

0:09:53 Thomas: What?

0:09:53 Eli: Don' t know. I listened to it, and he just said it to me random apropos of nothing. Keep in mind, I watch everything he watches and listen to everything he listens to. So who fucking knows? Someone blew up a TNT and he didn't like it or whatever the fuck it was. It's not he stumbled upon, oh,

0:10:06 Tom: It doesn't matter.

0:10:07 Thomas: Then what did you do? I thought you said you had a list of stuff you're going to delete. What

0:10:11 Tom: Went on and killed everything he hated.

0:10:12 Eli: I killed everything. No, Thomas, you don't understand. I burned it to the fucking ground. I

0:10:17 Thomas: I don't understand I'm trying to figure this out

0:10:19 Eli: iPad to the ground. I literally burned it to the ground and built it from the ground up with these hands. Look at my hands. You see they're covered in iPad blood. That's because I burned it to the fucking ground and I started from the ground up. I did try to do accessibility mode, which, by the way, if you have a kid and you wanna make iPads easier for them to use and tablets easier for the to use, there's a setting that they don't teach you about, which is fucking insane, called Assistive Use, which just gives you like six big squares that your kid can choose from. I tried that and he was like, too far! And I was like fair, fair, for fair, fair, far, fair. Fantasy got away from me, much like the Barney outfit and your mother. I completely understand. It I took it too far if you need some space to move away from the house I completely understand so I was like okay no no problem don't worry about it king um then I moved it back but it's just it's got all the good shit I literally restarted youtube from scratch his kids you I was liked erase your fucking brain and it's just scishow and pbs and fucking great

0:10:33 Tom: Love it. I love

0:11:17 Eli: Stuff and he just he watches daniel tiger and he plays the pbs games he goes on the pbs games app and he does fucking pre -coding shit and it's just oh it's the best oh know what's worse than that than the the moment before the moment before that all of the moments before that were worse but you can make make you those things go away by listening to me and talk about the youtube settings which I've probably done a hundred times on your show but you know what else we could do is you can give us money over at patreon.com/dearolddads where for as little as a buck a show you get a commercial free version of every single episode. Little parenting story at the end. Monthly bonus episodes. But act fast because our show is coming to an end.

0:11:58 Thomas: Go it's gonna be sold out it's

0:12:01 Eli: .com forward slash dear old dads. Rip into it.

0:12:12 Tom: Right so I stumbled across this on I think a parenting reddit it somewhere, somewhere and I just grabbed the question itself. I wanted to run it past you guys. Let me go ahead and read it for you. It says, I think I accidentally robbed my kids of being bored, and I regret it. I've been stuck with this thought. Maybe someone can help me out. When my oldest was little, I so wanted to be the cool mom. Every weekend had a plan. Library trips, playdates, science museums, arts and crafts, cooking, park runs, swimming, you name it. Every day had some or other activity planned.

0:12:42 Tom: If I heard I'm bored, I'd immediately think it was my job to fix it. Now when I look back, I think I overdid it. Now that my son is eight, I've started noticing that his first instinct during downtime is to ask, what are we doing? Or what's next? Last week, I was exhausted from working too much. So I told my kids, I'm not planning anything today. And for the first 30 minutes, they were absolutely confused. They kept wandering around complaining that there was nothing to do. I felt guilty, but I was too tired to entertain them. Then they went silent. I went to check on them and they built an entire city across the living room with our couch cushions, books, blankets, cardboard boxes, toy animals, and like some 200 Hot Wheels. Spent

0:12:41 Thomas: Jesus 200 hot

0:13:21 Tom: Almost four hours making rules, creating lanes, assigning jobs to toy dinosaurs, and arguing over whether a shark could be mayor. It was all so cute. I hadn't seen them play like that in years. It made me wonder if I had been unintentionally filling every quiet moment before they ever had a chance to create something themselves. I'm not against activities or experiences at all. We still do plenty. But I think somewhere along the way, I started believing that that a good parent keeps their kids entertained all the time. Now I'm starting to think that maybe boredom isn't a problem to solve. Maybe it's where some of the best childhood memories actually begin. Has anyone else had this realization, or am I overthinking it?

0:13:21 Thomas: Wheels I mean yes I think a lot of people have had that thought but usually it's because we just handed him a fucking ipad it's like have I robbed my kids boredom because Cause I hand them a fucking iPad and now they just do that whenever they're bored. Yes. The answer is yes. This sounds like way better. This almost sounds like you're a, bragging. Like, I don't know.

0:14:21 Tom: I think this is maybe one of those Reddit things that didn't fully happen. Like, oh, they went away, and then they made this amazing pillow fort, and they didn't just pout and stomp and whine like an eight -year -old would actually do. But I think I liked this because I like the idea of asking you guys specifically what you think of being your child's playmate and like what you feel like your responsibility to your kids boredom is or isn't or if you feel like you have any responsibility to their to because we would get the complaint when the kids were little like I'm bored and it did feel like I am hungry like something I should fix

0:14:25 Eli: 100 % fake.

0:14:58 Tom: Right like oh I should I should get up and find something for you to do. And sometimes we would, and other times we wouldn't. And I do really value the idea of like, hey, fucking figure out your own entertainment, you know? But I know a lot of parents feel differently, very differently. So I was curious where you guys fall on the, what obligation does boredom and entertainment like create for you as a parent?

0:15:22 Eli: It's fine to keep your kids from being bored because I think we have a nostalgia about being bored as adults that we don't remember was actually very bad and also led to us getting in trouble and doing things that were bad for our hearts and minds right actually think that boredom is a wildly over so what adults are actually talking about when they long for boredom is they mean free time right so when when you ask adults like what was good about boredom they would then tell you a fun creative activity they did with free time and you can do that without needing to simulate or force boredom right the notion of like that kids need to somehow organically create activities for themselves for them to be meaningful right right? That if you provide the activity, it's less enriching than if a kid provides the activity themselves. I buy that. I think what someone is talking about is they're talking about like the of enrichment, right? That is definitely real.

0:15:40 Thomas: An interesting take. Okay.

0:16:31 Tom: I guess I feel there's some questions like that I would have around that, which would be like, I think I agree that developmentally it matters when you're bored and for how long you're allowed to be bored. And so like, I would separate that, I think, from free time, because I think sometimes kids are just like, hey, I'm bored. They'll voice it. I am bored. I don't think that that necessarily means that I, as a parent, need to become their playmate in order for them to not be bored, I don't know that I necessarily need to be their play mate, actually, at all. Like, I think it's fine to play with them, But I don't think it's necessarily always good to be their primary source of entertainment and play. And know, I'm their parent. I'm not their peer. But like, I do think that as we get older, if we are bored, especially as we move into those like adolescent years, then I think boredom can be very dangerous. But I think when kids are younger, some amount of like, hey, I'm not going to structure this time and I'm not going necessarily play with you. You have things to do. You know, and toys at your disposal. There's a wide world to play in. You exercise that imagination. I think there's some real value to like not having anybody prescribe for you how you will be entertained right

0:17:48 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think one the worst accidental fuck -ups that I have that happens sometimes is where I'll be doing whatever, not knowing what's going on with the kids. Maybe I'm working, maybe I'm just waking up, whatever it is. And Arlo will ask me, like, hey, can a video game, do something? I'll say, oh, sure, buddy, let's do it. And then I'll come to find out that like not two seconds before that, you kids at all together created a magical wonderland of play and adventure that, you Phoebe had been really proud of setting up and then Arlo just like got bored and came and asked me to do something and I didn't know and then I've already said yes and then and then disappointed. I'm like, wait, no, dude, you got to do that. And then all just tell me has to do that but then he'll be mad the whole time and he won't do it oh

0:18:37 Eli: Right. Yeah. No, exactly. Because all of a sudden the answer, no, that happens all the time, which this is between parents too, is like Anna will set up a really fun game and Max will be like, can we watch TV? And I'm like, absolutely, buddy. And Anna will come over and be like, we just talked for 10 minutes about how there can't be more TV. And instead I built him a Lego maze with a real working waterfall. And I was, I was upstairs turning on the sink and now, now we got to do backseas.

0:19:02 Tom: You know think like kids are not going to necessarily turn to less maybe more enriching or less enticing options if they don't have a moment of that like that boredom creates. What I mean by that is if we're constantly providing play for them and activities for them, and filling all of their moments, and treating their boredom as our problem to solve, I'm not sure we give them any skills to benefit them as they move through their life on how to entertain themselves without having to turn to other people and require other people to solve that problem for them. In 2026, are kids going to go grab a book book if they're never bored I don't think so but they might if they'RE BOARD and they do around here at least you know occasionally grab a book and start reading a book if THEY'RE BOARD I think creating some room where there's just like yeah I'm not playing with you and we have downtime and you're going to figure out how you spend your time I think that's a really good life skill I I watch adults who don't know how to be bored who rather don'T let me me rephrase it actually because I think that's not less true I think a lot of adults have forgotten how to have time that doesn't intersect with media always and still feel okay so

0:20:20 Tom: Adults that I know now as soon as like as soonas like somebody gets up and leaves a conversation they grab their phone like they have to always be bringing input in and I don't think that is good for us I

0:20:30 Thomas: But here's my question do you feel like there's any correlation with that with how they were treated as a kid with boredom or is that just that technology fucking ruined our goddamn lives and because

0:20:42 Tom: Think both. I don't think it's the first one so much.

0:20:44 Thomas: Like I I had nothing but boredom I had I had the overdose of boredom like I it was I anything like a tragic dickensian tale I which eli I'll probably still say it was but like it was me and the snakes man we was just you know and once you played everything all the normal snake games you know like it's just the usual what you played like like the typical, yeah.

0:21:08 Tom: Reenact pitfall so many times, you know? Yeah.

0:21:10 Thomas: Um, and I'll tell you, like, I, don't know that that helped me. Like, I have no idea. I don'T know if anything like, came

0:21:17 Tom: Do you think it is a dosage problem?

0:21:17 Thomas: Of that, well, I DON'T know if anything CAME of that other than also I have ADHD and that's impossible anyway. Like you can't ADHD is like, it's just impossible to be bored. Like I can't, you know, it doesn't, it didn't help me or hurt me. I DON't know. I ,I DON'T KNOW. I guess I'm wondering if it's maybe a little more more innate and a product of our technology environment than this particular parenting decision. I don't know.

0:21:40 Tom: Technology is certainly a problem, right? Like 100%, I feel the technology is absolutely a problem. But I do think it is a good skill to have to not feel uncomfortable in yourself with not having something to do, with being alone with your thoughts, with having to invent a game, with having to turn to more, I know, more personal interests that aren't decided by some product that you engage with or some other person solving the problem I think there's a downside to that except for the dosage issue, which is, I think, a real issue. And I think also the timing of when we're bored. I think adolescence is a time in your life where we should, as parents, be more careful about making sure kids are not bored. I think when kids are a little younger, I think it's actually better for them to have a nice balance of time where you're creating entertaining and enriching moments. And then you're also just opening up space where even if they say, hey, I'm bored, you're not going to fix it. But like I do think that like I said once kids get a little older they can fill that quiet time with really dangerous shit and really dangerous people so you have to be a little more careful about keeping them you know moving and grooving rather than just like well I don't know what to do so I'm just gonna do drugs you know like or whatever because

0:22:59 Eli: A hundred percent.

0:22:59 Tom: That's a real thing that's a real think well

0:23:00 Thomas: Well, drugs aren't screened, so I guess you're fine.

0:23:03 Tom: Don' t think hayley will mind me telling this story like hayley She did gymnastics all through like grade school, middle school and the beginning of high school. And then she broke her arm and she broke around really badly. And so she wasn't able to do gymnastics anymore. And so She had. Well, she did a bunch of drugs. She partied and did a punch of drugs with people because she had nothing else to fill her time that, you know, had been constantly filled. And then all of a sudden, this thing that filled her time constantly was taken away and she couldn't do it anymore. And it was like, OK, well, now I got nothing but time. And so it's like, you know, you got time to go get in trouble, you know, whereas before you didn't have that, that opportunity.

0:23:16 Thomas: Took up heroin. Yeah, but that also means you're like unsupervised all the time, right? Because like my, I did not have that ability, you know, at all. I guess, again, again, living in the middle of nowhere, the snakes didn't have cars. So yeah,

0:23:44 Tom: The problem of supervision is an issue too. Right. Yeah.

0:23:54 Tom: Yeah. Think that's, important to context matters. Like I, had no supervision for, you know, several hours every day too, as you know my dad worked full time as a single parent. So like time was mine to just be like, yeah, all right, cool. Cool. I'm going to go get in trouble. And that's what I did. I went out and got in trouble, but I, am curious, like, especially cause it's a problem of littler kids who will come to you and say, Hey, I'm bored. Do you feel like you should fix that?

0:24:18 Eli: Yeah. I mean, especially littler kids. Like it just, it seems like that's that's, your opportunity to, just step in and make their life easier in a lot of ways. Like thing that comes up for me in that moment is I'm always just like, okay, okay, but like, if it's, if it's on them, then like, how are you going to light the spark? You know what I'm saying? Like, I consider a lot of playing with Max, and now, want I to caveat here, with my son in many ways is harder, but in a lot of ways is way, way easier. Max has, he's six years old, never said the words, I'm bored.

0:24:56 Tom: Yeah. That's awesome.

0:24:57 Eli: Not once. Is He constantly going from activity to activity. We have to tell him activity time is coming to an end because he is constantly wanting to do things. So for me, a lot of the time it is about introducing him to new activities and not, you to the Finding Dory Tony for the eight millionth time while he takes his Finding Dori stuffy and acts out word for word exactly what's happening in the Tony or, you you know, asking to do something new in Minecraft besides, you know set a TNT up by a sheep and blow it up, right, that is where often my thing comes in, so I can't really speak to like what it is like to have children who are bored or want a new activity because that's not what my kid wants, House

0:25:43 Thomas: Interesting. I wonder if that's what Remy's going to be. Because right now we have the problem where Remy, God, he's the most, it's so hard. I Like love Remy to death. Don't get me wrong. I know it's always, I'm like complaining about Remy. He's really cute, but he's got really just Just the worst combination of needing a new novel thing every 32 seconds, barely barely exaggerating. And also being completely, I guess, dependent on us to do it. Like, can't really entertain himself. Um, it's good in that he asks us to doing a different thing every three seconds. Like like, let's do do this. We'll set up like an entire, okay. I've set up a whole, like a house of cards, some bull. I'm trying to think of an example that takes forever, but like, we'll set something up for him. And then he's like, okay, and then he has already left. And like, he has now he has a baseball bat. Let's play baseball. What we we just didn't know. I want to play baseball and then you're like, nobody. And Then screaming fit, screaming fit screaming fit.

0:26:28 Eli: Of Cards

0:26:41 Thomas: Yeah.

0:26:39 Eli: Right, then you're back into it,

0:26:41 Thomas: And it's like, again, that's the other two were not like this. And so I know that not every kid is like this. And so if you don't have a kid like this, it's hard to communicate just how impossible it is to deal with a screaming fit every three seconds. It's, just gets old, man. Like it's really, really hard. Like imagine just a full screaming meltdown every three minutes because he found a different thing he wants you to do for him all day, just all day. Weekends are hell, man with Remy. Me can do as much screens as he wants like literally and and the reason is like he actually won't like he pretty much can't sit still so for him it's like the he's able to sit still for a movie or anything we're like yeah but just fucking what here's just crack whatever do you drink because if you're sitting still it's so weird how contextual it is because like the other kids I don't you know yeah like I would feel uncomfortable if they were just like you watching TV too long or doing whatever, but like, because he never stops, if he ever stops, we're like, oh God, thank God. Just let him watch. Yeah. This is a rated

0:27:27 Eli: Do some crack, do some crap, yeah,

0:27:36 Tom: Zoned all day yeah just

0:27:44 Thomas: R movie. It's fine.

0:27:44 Tom: Give him whatever he wants

0:27:45 Thomas: Whatever it is.

0:27:45 Eli: Do whatever you want, man.

0:27:46 Thomas: Truly don't care. Like, yeah.

0:27:45 Tom: Just it's fine I

0:27:48 Eli: You want a key bump? You want key bump. Daddy got you a key bum.

0:27:50 Thomas: I say to the TV. Yeah, yeah,

0:27:51 Tom: He'll turn us into a jack -in -box in a cornfield if we don't give him what he wants it doesn't matter fucking twilight zone hostages man

0:27:55 Thomas: And so I thing that will be tough, I actually do think as hard as remy is it'll still be sad when he gets to the point where he no longer depends on us for entertainment I don't think we'll ever see him again because he just has to be doing what he wants to do all the time and for the moment what he has to do is have us entertain him but I'm I'm telling you man the minute that's over he'll be gone like he'll just he'll do something like because he's just man man, talk about not being able to be bored. Like I he's just got some severe ADHD and he can't handle not having stimulus for two seconds. And so we'll see, man, it might, it he turned six. He'll probably be on the road. He 'LL be gone. HeLL be, he 'LL be hitchhiking, you on a train.

0:28:25 Tom: Gonna follow a jam band cross -country he's just he's out yeah that's guess for me, too, like lot of the things that kids want to do, especially when they're young, are so fucking boring, honestly, because it's repetitive like it's that. Developmentally normal. It's great. And you should absolutely I'm not saying never do these things. Just so I'm clear and I don't get like weird emails. I'm just saying, like, I think that there's a balance that you can strike and I think is positive for everybody. And I think it changes as kids get older, where as they get older like more of their time, you can kind of allow them to fill that time when they're really little. You don't fucking ignore their baby or whatever. That's not what I'm saying. But then again, I think het switches back over into adolescence where we should have, you structures in place. And they don't necessarily have to be used structures, but they should be structures in places to prevent that kind of boredom. But like I think about like, kids when they were little, like I would be so bored after I mean, you try to play with them because they'll play all day. Right. Like there's never going to be a time where they don't want to play với you and you've got to do the dishes or go to work or, you up and not be hunched over a train set anymore.

0:29:58 Tom: More like there is a there is a limit to the amount of like let's do the same thing again again again again that you can do with kids so noticed that Haley did a lot is like if Aislinn because Aisling was would announce her boredom more often than most of the other kids and she would announce that she was bored and sometimes Haley would be like okay let's go do this and then let's let's just do a craft project and that was something that like Haley enjoyed doing but Haley was in control of the thing that they were going to do together so if it was like hey hey, no, what I want to do is, you play Beanie Boos. It would be like, no we're not going to do that, but we can do this instead. And it's like, nah, I want play Beannie Boos, like okay, you can go do that other thing by yourself, or we can this thing that we both enjoy together. But watched her do that with Aislinn, and I thought, well that's a good way to do it. Because

0:30:43 Thomas: I guess we do. I do do that I like that move sometimes so it's like yeah this is the thing that I'll do otherwise hey yeah go do something else dear

0:30:50 Tom: Again, I think it's very age dependent, right? Like so, you now, a three year old, yeah, like again, it very much like depends on Like, would I do that with Max? No, it wouldn't work. Right. Like Max is going to be like, no, I'm just going to do the thing I want to do or pretend you don't exist entirely. Probably. Right, so.

0:30:54 Eli: Depends on the kid. No. He sure is. He sure fucking is.

0:31:10 Tom: So did your I mean, Thomas, I know your dad did not play with you, right? Like your dad was not a play dad. Yeah. Did your mom play with you?

0:31:14 Thomas: Well okay what what age are we thinking I think I need a specific age

0:31:19 Tom: In general. I'm just curious.

0:31:20 Thomas: No I think id I don't know if I can answer that I'm trying to think um I like I I think it very much changed depending on yeah I don' t think I can't answer in general because because the answer changed too much, like, as I'm trying to think, like when I was little, maybe, I can't remember my dad ever playing anything with us. He we did stuff with my dad that was stuff that he wanted to do, which or whatever. Like there were some things when we were old, when we're younger, I honestly don't know. I mean, he, coached the little league teams. So I guess that's something, although I hated all all of that. Uh, and baseball are the two things you do with that. And those both suck dick. So I it's not like it was a fun thing. It was just like, that was like another, like, sure. Um, yeah, but my mom kind of trying to think my mom also didn't really play with us either. Like mom like did all the things. My mom did the reading to us, did that kind of stuff. And so I'm sure that she must've done some amount of that when I was an age that I can't remember um my mom also has terrible adhd so like I don't think she could sit still

0:31:20 Eli: This week, like last time you saw her, for privacy reasons, I'm not at liberty to answer that particular question.

0:32:27 Tom: Both

0:32:27 Thomas: Right

0:32:27 Tom: Just go wander off in different directions 20 minutes into hanging out.

0:32:30 Thomas: But but I have sit still adhd don't I have the movement thing you know so like I have the like inattentive or you know like I could just be in my own head off on a daydream forever so I could could be sit Still you know to play a game with us or anything she would just like have to get up and go do something it's kind of funny in retrospect um and then because I had you know I had three siblings so for a while we just played with each other you know like

0:32:57 Tom: That was going to be my next question. Do you think the obligation changes if you have just one child? Like if you haven't only child because I'm thinking back. Yeah right. I think so too because I had a brother was a year older than I am. I have brother I should say who's a year older than I am I forget him entirely but like he and I would play when we were little like like I think my dad felt like well that shit's covered and then we would do family stuff together but that kind of wasn't the same thing you know and it was it was like um I don't know it's family stuff and we didn't do that very often when we got a little older we would play maybe like a board game like scrabble or uno or something like that or cards

0:33:03 Thomas: For sure I think it does yeah yeah like your your dad

0:33:34 Tom: Cards. Dad would play those things with us. Yeah. Yeah, too often, but he if we were like, hey, I'm playing GI Joes, my dad would not get on his hands and knees and play GI Joes. That's just not a thing he's going to do. Your dad do that kind of stuff with you, did we lie? I'm guessing 100%. Yes, he did.

0:33:34 Thomas: Would or

0:33:50 Eli: Yeah. My dad played with me constantly. He What was crazy is my dad had to beg me to come to stuff with him because I wanted to sit in the house and just eat a gallon -sized bag of craisins while staring at the TV. And my dad would be like, please let me take you to the circus. And I'd be like no! Circus is fucking stupid! Like the catchphrase that had to develop between us is like after enough of that he would be okay, did you have fun today? And I would be be like so much fun. And he'd be like, cool. So can we come up with a thing where like next time you don't want to come, you remember that we had this conversation?

0:34:28 Tom: No. That will not work.

0:34:30 Eli: It did not work. It did not work.

0:34:29 Thomas: Wow oh

0:34:31 Tom: I'm literally fighting that fight with Eamon right now. No. That does not work, no no.

0:34:34 Thomas: That's so true sorry

0:34:34 Eli: He really wanted it to though. I could tell. And you know, he, he really, he made his best effort to spend time with me. You know, we had, we Had a thing every Wednesday called boys night night out. Um, we, night we would go, um, the same thing. And again, this is me, right? I wanted to do the samething every Wednesday. I wanted go to the mall. I want to go to pizza place across from the arcade. I wanna to get the same pizza that I got every time. Then I wanted the go to arcade. We would go to arcane.

0:35:05 Thomas: You got to go to pizza and arcade every week

0:35:08 Eli: You are only halfway through the a thing then we would go then we would go to the video store and yeah I know I was absolutely a spoiled ass kid yeah we would go rent a movie and then we would get candy at CVS on the way back for the movie yeah

0:35:10 Tom: Fucking hate him so much. So yeah,

0:35:13 Thomas: Fucking christ you spoiled ass kid go to the video store every week after the pizza oh my god shut up I can't that happened like three times in my life like that was like jesus christ

0:35:30 Tom: The exact same childhood. I don't know. I think you're the the outlier thomas is exactly the same for me it's 100 the same holy

0:35:37 Thomas: Oh my God dude now

0:35:34 Eli: And so that was called boys night out and we would do that literally every week from I'm gonna say eight years old maybe younger six years old until I left for college and she's

0:35:54 Tom: Holy shit so you have a sister but how old is your how what's the age difference between you and your sister

0:35:59 Eli: 15 years younger than me so she would have been three at the time

0:36:01 Tom: So you were an only child for most of your life yeah yeah yeah so I think that changes it

0:36:05 Thomas: So like what effect do you think that had on your life because Because from where I'm sitting, yeah,

0:36:09 Eli: Awesome look at me I'm a genius yeah all all people did is like you are loved you are safe you are love you are saved and now I'm a genius capable of everything except running fast and jumping high yeah man that's what spoiling your kid does they've checked that's

0:36:25 Thomas: You also have an incredible anger problem that you talk about and you have other stuff.

0:36:29 Eli: Fine I suck but you know who else has anger problems people who get the shit beat out of them that's just a bad dice roll yeah

0:36:38 Thomas: What I'm saying, though, is I I really don't know how we can cleanly decide, okay, well, this was because of the good parenting stuff, but then this was, that's just how I am. Like I actually don't, I just don't know, man. Like I really don't.

0:36:52 Tom: Know either. I feel guess maybe part of me too reacts to just like the incredible pressure that is being a parent and feeling like I on your boredom too. Too. You know what I mean? Like, parent, it's like, we've got to take on all of these other things. And then most of us have to, you know, work and have relationships. And we're supposed to also maintain our personal social connections. And we'RE supposed to have hobbies and interests because otherwise, you Know, we'll fall apart as soon as the kids get older. We're supposed do all of These things, but then like, also I need to be responsive, not just to your hunger and not just your wellbeing and not to your socialization and and not just to your education and academics, but also, I got to also be responsive to your boredom, which is capricious as fuck and might arise at any time, and I just feel like that's too much to like, that's mine entirely. Like, their hunger is mine entirely, right? Like, a kid's like, hey, I'm hungry. You're like, all right, cool. I either make you food, or if you're old enough, like, I make sure you have food and you know where it's at and you knows how to use, you know, whatever it is that you need in order to get it. But like that is mine to solve. But bored feels less like it has to be mine to solve, you know?

0:37:36 Eli: Well say this right because I am actually that is something that anna and I do right so like a A great example of this is that Max gets an adventure every Sunday, right? And when Anna and I do our monthly planning, we sit down and we plan at least two new Max activities a month, one or two, depending on the month, how tight it is, or if we've got something built in. But like our goal as a parents is he the shots most Sunday mornings before he goes to his sitter. So Sunday, something like 8 .30 a .m. to 2 p .m., he usually has an adventure in mind. But at least once a month, we introduce him to a totally new activity that he's never done before. That's part of our goal as parents. Like, we're doing that. Now, I will say, one, caveat being one kid, right? Two, tremendous amounts of financial privilege, free time privilege, right, my job works around that, all that kind of stuff. I don't want this to come off as prescriptive. And three, the other benefit is that it is never in response to Max's boredom. Right. Which I think would make it a lot harder. Right?

0:39:10 Tom: Yeah.

0:39:11 Eli: If every Sunday we woke up and Max was like, what are we fucking doing? Like, I don'T know how I'd feel about that. Right, that is something we actively plan. We come to him on Sundays and we say, or usually we come to them on Saturdays and we We say, what do we want your adventure tomorrow to be? And he, to his credit, a like lot of the time it'll be the same stuff, but sometimes he just comes up with wild shit. Did I tell you guys about bowling day?

0:39:37 Eli: Who fucking knows why? This was when Anna was away for 11 days. I was like, we're going to the indoor playground tomorrow. He was like you, you got it, man. Wakes up in the morning. The first thing he says, when we walk in, I walk in. Hey buddy. Morning. How you doing? First thing he says is daddy today for our adventure we are going bowling he has never been bowling in his entire life I didn't know where he learned about bowl I think fucking blippy was at a bowling alley or something he was like we are gonna bowl so we put on matching bowling shirts like the studs we are we went to the local bowling alley we bowled I think we rolled the ball two times then we played air hockey uh and then we fucked off because who fucking cares? Like I live by, do you know Pete Holmes's joke about the ice cream cake?

0:40:00 Tom: Love this. No, no.

0:40:24 Eli: Very core to my parenting philosophy, which is like the joke is, and I'm not going to do it justice, but he's walking behind a and his kid and the kid's like, dad, I'm hungry. And he's like Jeremy, you just had an apple. And the of the joke is like, I'll do whatever the fuck I want. I'll take a single bite of an ice cream cake And then throw it in the garbage. That's, that's how I feel about activities with Max, right? If it's not wasteful or harmful, we'll take a single bite of an ice cream cake and throw it In the garbage, if we're going bowling, and we roll the ball two times, and then he's done fucking fine. We don't have to bowl for long. So we, we played air hockey. And then he was like, fuck this shit. And I was like fuck this shit man let's fucking go right and so like as someone who does that and again it's not in response to boredom so I don't know how I would feel

0:41:10 Thomas: But is that boredom when he's like, I'm done with this?

0:41:14 Eli: It he's just done with it

0:41:15 Tom: He's just transitioning to something else, I think.

0:41:17 Thomas: Interesting. Interesting

0:41:17 Eli: He's like now it's time for this um I will say all the privilege accounted for that is something that is very important to anna and I um we do manage it

0:41:35 Thomas: That's interesting because I think of it with remy I I haven't maybe I shouldn't be doing this but I I have a thing where I'm like the kids have to finish not finish but like if we go to the trouble of doing something an activity a thing and it know maybe there's setup involved maybe there's effort that somebody made like it's like okay you got to do it for more than two seconds like that's like don't know if i'D feel that way about bowling well I don't know maybe I would because with bowling it's like there's a part of me that that has a hard time you be like hey you know we paid to do this thing like we're gonna just like not do it at all you don't you don't have that hmm

0:42:10 Tom: To Thomas. I used Yeah. And then I realized that forced fun isn't and it never turns out OK.

0:42:18 Thomas: I agree with that it's it's they don't have to have fun they just have to do sorry they don'T HAVE TO HAVE FUN THEY JUST HAVE TO FUCKING BOWL THEY JUST GOTTA FINISH THEIR FUCKING FRAMES I don'T CARE IF YOU'RE yeah you can cry that's fine you cry while you do it you just gotta fucking finish

0:42:34 Eli: Give you He's something to cry about with the fucking frames.

0:42:37 Tom: I can sympathize. I used to feel a real obligation to the effort that was involved in something like I thought that created like a sense of obligation to engage the thing. And I used to feel a real sense of like uh to the expense of whatever the thing was the more expensive the thing is the more I would sort of feel obligated to have to spend time engaging that thing and then I realized that I was the only one unhappy in that scenario like and other people would be made unhappy by my unhappiness if I pushed it on them But otherwise, what am I doing? I've a scenario that nobody's asking usually but mine, especially with the kids, and decided what they're going to do and decided how they're gonna spend their time. And then because they didn't like that, now they have some obligation to make me happy. Is I and realized like they weren't happy I wasn't happy and the easier thing would be like be like yeah forced fun isn't fun so we're just going to do something different and then everybody stays chill and everybody's happy and it's cool I do think there's a lesson to learn which is important about being grateful when other people expend an effort and asking people to uh that and appreciate that but I think that that's a later lesson I think thats actually a fairly emotionally complicated thing for people to learn and I think a lot of times when I grew up my dad was very much the same like if if my dad took his time and his money and his effort to to take us somewhere and have us do something by god we were fucking doing it start to finish whether it made everybody miserable or not and I unintentionally kind of did the same thing until I was like hey hey, actually, I don't like being miserable. Hate it, as it turns out. And I didn't like doing that when I was a kid. I actually hated that when I was a kid. And

0:44:26 Tom: Now I just don't do it. I just don' t do it at all.

0:44:27 Thomas: What about when one of your kids is enjoying something and one or two of the others is like ah this you know what I mean like

0:44:35 Eli: Not an issue. One of them's a pug.

0:44:38 Tom: So that is impossible and it can't be managed. I just want to say that a lot. Like, like, especially bad and like, because there's such a big gulf the ages for our kids. Eamon is so much younger than everybody else. He's only three years younger than Aislinn, but he's like 12 years younger than she is maturity wise. So the things that interest him are just light years different than the things that interest everybody else. And that is literally impossible. And there's no good answer for it.

0:45:07 Thomas: I think that's more what I mean I'm not making any but like if nobody wants to do a thing okay that's fine but and I can't even really think of an example but I'm pretty sure it's happened at some point if it's like somebody's we put some effort in somebody's put some evidence somebody's bought something and by the way it's almost never that like me or or Lydia decided we're gonna do a thing it's almost always the kids wanted to do a thing and then they realized like I don't want want to do this or they like I don't know somebody somebody

0:45:35 Eli: Max does that all the time.

0:45:36 Thomas: Or somebody has like you know let's say it was it's not bowling I've never gone bowling but let's Say It Was That Arlo will throw one bad ball and be like this I hate it sucks because he can't handle when he's done something bad and then my attitude would be like okay well I'm having fun you know like I paid to bowl I'm gonna bowl you don't have to bowl you can just sit there if you want but I'm Having Fun or Remy's Having Fun Or Phoebe's Having Fun like that's what I mean where it's like I'm not gonna make anyone do the activity but I think it's having also unfair to anyone else who is having fun to be like oh well now we have to quit this thing kind of thing I don't know yeah

0:46:09 Tom: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's tough. Like like, don't get me wrong. Like we've had scenarios where the kids or one of the kids or whatever will just complain incessantly about something that we're trying to do and we're trying to a thing that's nice you know it's like and it's like I'm just trying to doing nice thing and like why are we fucking bitching about it just

0:46:27 Thomas: Just sign the card for your mom you fucking asshole jesus fucking christ yeah

0:46:30 Tom: And I I think that like the only solution to that is just like no solution it can't be managed I I just say can't be managed there's no there's nobody says yeah you just you get fucking angry inside you don't say anything and then you know you try to talk to about it maybe later like hey that wasn't fun for other people like you really shouldn't shit I know you can't yuck other people's yum man that's not great you know it goes back to that but in the moment no everybody just eats shit and nobody enjoys their time and that's what family fun is

0:46:38 Thomas: That's we're agreed yeah yeah

0:47:01 Eli: That's why it's so nice to have just the one fucking kid, the only kid that mattered. Now, I will say this. I do wonder as Max, because right now Max fucking goes, Max leaves his own birthday party an hour before everyone else, right? Max is fucking done. And I just tell everyone and everyone in my life kind of gets it. Right. I just sort of, you know, if we've never hung out before, I'm just like, hey, just so you know at any moment, Max might tell you to fuck yourself. And now I will say this.

0:47:27 Thomas: Like the celebrity handler like uh mr bosnick uh would like like you to fuck yourself okay

0:47:30 Eli: Now a very important thing. He is never allowed to be rude, dismissive or unkind. Right? I'll fucking strap him to a gurney like Hannibal Lecter until he says his pleases and his thank yous and all that shit is. But if he's just like quietly done with one life and no afterlife, we're fucking done. We're wasting any time on fucking what Cousin Squagwampf thinks. No, Cousins Squagwanf is fucking fine. We'll be in the car listening to super simple songs like we don't need to fuck. So I don't know it's really it's so much easier because I have one kid and he's the only vote that matters no

0:47:52 Tom: Did I but did I ever tell you this story about when my dad passed out at Six Flags because we were going to have such a good time? God damn it.

0:48:15 Eli: Parody

0:48:16 Thomas: Well okay that's a teaser for the parenting story daryl No.

0:48:28 Eli: Before we go wait The internet connection at the farm is really sketchy. So the farmer moved the modem to the barn. Now they have stable Wi -Fi.

0:48:45 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email thedads at DearOldDads.com or better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle and the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues, LLC, copyright 2022, all rights reserved.

0:49:27 Eli: Tried stealing his cum. He was, shall we say negative about it, but

0:49:34 Thomas: Just be like that idiot. That one, that dumb one. Yeah,

0:49:37 Tom: The only solution to that is just like no solution it

0:49:42 Eli: Always lies is such a harsh term for does not let myself be restricted by reality when

0:49:49 Thomas: Was me and the snakes man we