DOD276: The Annual Poopy Pants Review

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that may or may not have poopy pants. We'll find out in a moment. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:35 Eli: Ooooooooooooooooh Man, that's a way to get rid of a new listener right there. That's done and done. This one's only for the die -hards! Feel free to make as many deep cuts as you like, because nobody's tuning into this one for the first time. Well, we don't - so, okay. Backstory. Back story. So for those of you deep in the lore, which is all of you, because Tom scared away all the newbies with poopy pants, last year Thomas and I were both poopy -pants husbands come Mother's Day. I think I had a fucking something, some work thing that meant Anna didn't get a break or anything. And then I did like a, right, she went somewhere, but it just, it wasn't a Mother's Day, Mother's Day, right? A Mother's day, Mother'S day. And I think we talked about this last year. So I'll try and make it quick. Mother's days. Mother'S days is where you take all the bad things about being a mom, all of them. And you make them go away for one 12 hour period, just one 12 12 -hour period, take all the hard work, all the emotional labor, and it all goes away. She gets to lie in bed on her phone, which is what she wants. She wants to lie on bed on their phone and order Uber Eats. These are her deepest, most

0:01:53 Tom: Desires.

0:01:53 Eli: Private desires. And you can make those things happen. So both Thomas and I failed. We failed on the present game. Spoiler alert, I did awesome this year, which Is why I want to talk about it, of course.

0:02:04 Tom: Let me jump in on that real quick, because I saw a, uh, like, I don't know how accurate or, like whatever, the study or the survey. It was not a study. It was a survey. But it was something like what do like women want for Mother's Day and like what men want for Father's Day. And like men for Father'S Day overwhelmingly wanted sexual favors and like women overwhelmingly wanted exactly what you described. It's like, can I just have some fucking inner peace for an hour, please? I got to just not be harassed always by something nonsensical and annoying and taxing.

0:02:28 Eli: Just want to relax. Yeah. I want something not to be holding onto my face for balance. That's what I want. Yeah.

0:02:40 Tom: It just felt like this like perfect like, yeah, that's that's it. That's all it they're like that survey that's it in a nutshell that's the whole of culture right there in a nut shell yeah

0:02:48 Eli: I do want sexual favors for Father's Day, though. That is what I wanted.

0:03:00 Thomas: Not sex to you.

0:03:03 Tom: Today that's how good at it I am your present is I won't make you do

0:03:05 Thomas: You can give me a thank you card. Yeah, I expect a thank -you card. No sex.

0:03:05 Eli: You're welcome. Here's some no -sex coupons for you. Feel free to use those whenever you like.

0:03:15 Tom: This they just all say headache they just all say head I guess is pull one out of the headache book

0:03:15 Thomas: They're expired.

0:03:19 Eli: They all... You can give me a headache. It's actually a little bit of poison. You just put it in whatever I'm eating or drinking.

0:03:25 Thomas: But the only thing worse than...

0:03:28 Eli: But the only thing worse than having sex with Thomas Smith is the auto ads. Yes, the auto ads. They're interrupting your podcast experience. Look, you love this podcast. You love tuning in, dropping out, and chilling to your favorite tunes with your three favorite dance. But then you get a big, loud, noisy ad for Trump University or Hitler's Ghost, whatever it is we have running on the auto ads

0:03:50 Tom: Hitler's

0:03:49 Thomas: Dude, that thing's flying off the shelves.

0:03:51 Eli: This week. People love Hitler's ghost. Can't get enough of them but you can make them all go away for as little as a dollar you give us a dollar over at patreon.com and folks your dollar's never been more important because jack conti is once again striving to sabotage our livelihoods partly he's switching everybody over to monthly accounts which is going to be a delight in a few months you'll hear about that when it goes terribly wrong and everyone freaks out at the great threat to our livelihood but But he's also starting his own social network. That's right. For those of you who do turn in on Patreon, have you ever thought to yourself, wait a second. What if there was a Twitter with nothing but Patreon posts I can't see? Well, your wish has been granted, Aladdin. And it only took all the money that company has taken from stupid new real estate investors to do it. Check it out. They're calling them coops or something because everything's stupid and bad now. patreon.com/dearolddads business is easy everyone's an idiot no

0:04:58 Thomas: You know I'm realizing too what's great about patreon is they're they're actually at least it's charming that they're still doing last decades dumb tech bullshit you know they're not doing ai right so they're like one dumb tech behind they're like guys social media like they already did that yeah Yeah.

0:04:58 Tom: Ghost

0:05:08 Eli: Not yet

0:05:13 Tom: Well just what America was clamoring for another social media space I don't have enough is there any way I can download an app that tracks everywhere I go that would be amazing amazing

0:05:23 Eli: Well I don't know if you guys read jack's new york times op -ed

0:05:26 Tom: I don't read anything that fucking guy writes

0:05:27 Eli: But or if you've seen his hats but he's a little bit different than your usual ceo he wears hats yeah

0:05:34 Tom: Does he turn the chair around backwards in the board meeting and so that he can yeah rap have a little rap

0:05:37 Eli: Every announcement might as well have yep a backwards chair and a fucking rap beat in the background

0:05:44 Thomas: I'm realizing, too, he's like 10 years ago, weird CEO as well. Like he's not the current moment is A .I. and CEOs that are just actively garbage people. He's just like a decade behind, which I actually appreciate a little bit. I're trying to find the bright side of this. You know, it's.

0:05:59 Eli: You can actually pinpoint the moment the CEO of your favorite company started using ketamine. It's nice. You can see it right there in the stock price. It just goes all down from the moment they had a little nose spray that made them feel not so scared anymore.

0:06:14 Tom: Session all

0:06:21 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:06:22 Tom: Right so mother's day how did you guys do yeah yeah

0:06:24 Eli: A little preview, little preview before we say how we did, because I have a feeling how this is going to go, but I want to point out that Tom did cheat on our behalf. Tom let us know that Mother's Day was a month away we

0:06:34 Tom: Oh that's right I did I

0:06:36 Thomas: No, yeah, that's a huge. Eli, I don't know. There's something saintly about you that you're saying us it is really kind of you because it is just me yeah

0:06:47 Tom: Did and I love thomas's response it was something like oh

0:06:51 Thomas: So tom tom tries to pull a prank the other day where he's like hey mother's day is coming and I was like no fucking way no shut the fuck I just did this we just we just did this it was there's no I actively thought it was a joke and then he said yeah may 10th and that that was honestly the best thing. It was, it was like pretty, I don't know if Lydia put you up to it, but that was like really cool that you did that. Like, cause I, there's no bits here. I had absolutely no fucking clue that this was coming. There's no, I, There's No Way to Know. I don' know how Tom knows.

0:07:04 Eli: It was just Christmas what's happening it was just Christmas birthday yeah

0:07:28 Tom: Fuck it's impossible yeah

0:07:28 Thomas: He has some hidden information that only Tom knows."

0:07:31 Tom: It's right yeah I get I get text messages from the government that's the only way that you know yeah it says you sign up yeah that's a right yeah right I got a guy I got mother's day guy yeah yeah

0:07:34 Thomas: Oh, okay. Yeah. I was wondering. He's, he has like a connection. You know, he's really businessy. Yeah, I have a a Mother's Day guy.

0:07:40 Eli: This is gonna be the most podcaster of podcaster takes but you know how I actually know that Mother's Day is coming up or a frame sends me a bunch of money so they fucking they go hard on ads. Yeah. Yep. They buy 19 spots across all of our shows. Ooh.

0:07:48 Thomas: Uh, yeah, that does happen. Actually, that does happen to me too. Sometimes this time it wasn't this time. It wasn't, I totally, this, this is not a bit, this was what told me about Mother's day. And I was like, okay, okay. And I managed to do okay. I actually, the thing was I put in the Slack for the shows that I wanted to talk about when you have a neurodivergent kid who's fucking up Mother's day. Cause that was a new experience to me really. Like Like I hadn't really, I guess, dealt with this level of fuckery, but it was, man, I had a, I had a time. It was rough, but there was almost no poop in the poopy pants. Like I would say very, it was

0:08:27 Eli: So tell us, tell us how little poop was in your pants and then we can talk about how much you hate your kids. Yeah.

0:08:33 Tom: That is amazing and you were traveling which made it extra

0:08:36 Thomas: Extra difficult because Tom warned me and it's entirely because Tom warned Me. There wouldn't, nothing would have happened if it hadn't been for that. So I do want to, I just can't stress enough how much my pants would have been poopy if if not for this diaper -changing miracle man.

0:08:53 Thomas: I think another thing that happens with people like me is I'm in the ideas phase for too long. Because I was like, wow, I've just gotten, I felt like I had an insider stock trading tip. When he told me about Mother's Day, ahead of when the general public knows about it, I was, like, holy shit, dude, first off, how many people can I tell? Like, am I in trouble if I tell anybody else? This is like I went on cal she yeah I was like uh maybe

0:09:12 Eli: This was your Conor McGregor wants to try being a boxer moment. You were just like, holy shit. Other people don't know how obvious this is.

0:09:22 Tom: Difficult goal

0:09:22 Thomas: I can bet on mother's day happening because nobody will know when that is you know yeah but I was not sure if I was right god damn it everybody somehow tom told too many people or something because they already it didn't work but anyway then I was in the ideas yeah then I Was in the idea's face and I was like oh yeah I got all the time in the world he told me nearly I don't know if you check the date on that message but it was a matter of weeks I think which is unheard of and so I knew about this thing and sorry I didn't tell any of you but I knew about this holiday weeks in advance crazy can't even believe the technology we have these days and so uh I was in the ideas phase I was trying to come up with something and then I don't know what happened all of a sudden it was like may 3rd I was like oh

0:09:26 Eli: Nobody will know. It's perfect. Yeah, exactly.

0:09:27 Tom: Thomas is on the prediction markets like oh this is not good a lot of us sign up for the text alerts

0:10:06 Thomas: Damn it fucking god damn it and then uh that's when I also found out that we have a trip that nobody could possibly know about that was happening at that time as well. I know you didn't tell me that we had a trip. Yeah, I really, I actually should. Here's the funny thing.

0:10:06 Eli: Tom

0:10:15 Tom: Yeah I should all right you you gotta share your family calendar with me thomas I've told you this again and again you just gotta share the family calendar with me and

0:10:17 Eli: Why didn't you text Thomas about the trip that his family on

0:10:27 Thomas: I actually showed. And if I did, Tom would probably remind me about a bunch of stuff. Cause that's just how Tom is. Uh, he feels so he pities like how bad I am.

0:10:32 Tom: I'll pretty

0:10:27 Eli: Lydia don't forget all those doctor's appointments

0:10:37 Tom: Hard

0:10:37 Thomas: And so we haven't, we had a trip that made it pretty hard because the calendar said we're coming back on Mother's Day. I was like, well, that's impossible. We can't, then, then it's canceled. And then turned out the calendar lied and we were coming back On Saturday. That made it a little easier, but I did book a double massage for Lydia, an extra length session that I was, like, she really needs this. She's going to love it. And I told her to fuck off. She can go do that, you know, just get out out of here. And that was good. But in the morning, so as we were getting back from our trip, which was very late, flying was actually kind of fine. It was because we were flying from two and from small airports, which is nice. But we did have like an hour delay coming home. By the time we got home, it was like 2 a .m. with all the kids, you know, and all this stuff. It Was hell. So I was trying to tell Phoebe, and it's fun too, because Phoebe's so, Phoebe. She's so into it that I, you Know, she can be a co -conspirator. She loves it. It's her favorite thing. And I told told her like, Hey, you know, it's mother's day. She's like, yeah, I fucking knew you idiot. I know it's Mother's Day. Dummy.

0:10:45 Tom: Is for father's day that's actually yeah

0:11:04 Eli: Tom texted me

0:11:37 Thomas: I've known. She was like, I told Tom to tell you. Yeah. And so I was like, yes, of course. Of course. I knew too. I, we all knew. Duh. Yeah, and I was just testing him. You knew. That's what I was testing. And I was like okay, is there any way that we could have Remy? I was asking for ideas. I was, like, could we have Remy not wake mom up tomorrow? And it was funny and I was mainly asking just for fun like just to

0:11:38 Tom: Perfect she's like dad I've got on the family calendar what kind of a jackass are you do not even check this right

0:12:00 Thomas: Talk to Phoebe about it and I the funny thing was I saw her brain work she's like because she was kind of excited to like maybe plan something plot I was like we're gonna go out we're going to get mom some stuff we're gonna you know we'll do all the stuff it's like how could we have Remy not wake up mom she goes oh oh I don't know yeah it pretty much was like I saw the wheels in her brain turn and she was like that's not possible she's just like there is no way to do that I'm sorry I was like, yeah, yeah.

0:12:13 Eli: Sure kill

0:12:22 Tom: Yeah see that's the best answer from phoebe from what you've described like I could could just see her being like oh that's no problem and sweetly run off to grab duct tape you know in a very concerning

0:12:34 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, she probably tried to strangle him.

0:12:36 Eli: Him gets a hand drill

0:12:38 Thomas: But no, here's the here's. The issue with Phoebe is she is the latest sleeper. If she was the first riser, I could have she would have done that. Like I would have been like, OK, here is the thing. Yeah.

0:12:39 Tom: Manner right

0:12:47 Eli: She would have duct taped him up for you yeah

0:12:50 Thomas: You kidnap. I would've had to specify, hey, no fatalities like you're not. Yeah it'd be like Fargo or something. I have to tell her, like, you can't be a psychopath.

0:12:54 Tom: No murder yeah no

0:13:00 Eli: She's just sitting there like Billy Bob Thornton In the emergency room I need you to tell me You want Remy not to wake mom up

0:13:04 Thomas: You Because if I tell her just like, oh, this needs to happen, she will take it upon herself to be the brute force of enforcement of making something happen that wasn't actually that important. She'll kill Remy, murder Arlo, start a race war. It's just the stuff she does. And so that wasn'T going to work. I knew it wasn'T gonna work.

0:13:20 Eli: Shit we're all the same race I don't know why I did that

0:13:27 Tom: Murder oh

0:13:27 Thomas: It doesn'T matter. She found a way. But I did say, all right, well, whatever. Whenever when Remy comes in and wakes us up, I will handle it or something. And sure enough, he did. And, you know, we got to bed at 2 a .m. So Remy slept all the way until six, which was, you know. That's fucking great. That is fucking phenomenal. No matter what happens, he still has to wake up at his insane time. He's not changing. The other two kids, they're like, yeah, sleeping in. We're tired. Cool. Awesome. Remy? No. He is going to do what he is going do. Do you guys remember or have it, has it happened recently or whatever, to remember the thing where you're dying of exhaustion and your brain is trying to figure out how to bargain your baby or child into giving you a little more sleep somehow. Remember that? It's a whole thing. It's a real fun thing. And then in my mind, I'm like, but I also, I can't wake up Lydia. Oh, buddy, I've got, I'll come in. He's like, and then he just goes straight toward mom, of course, because that's all he does. I was like, no, no. I got you, buddy. He was like no, don't want that anyway eventually he wins I'm like you're right I have to get up I can't I want him to just snuggle and bet I was like maybe if I can get him to просто snuggle then we can just sleep more but he wouldn't do it so I had to go downstairs I was exhausted but uh we still we went out once the big kids were up we went out we got mom's stuff we were gonna go to her favorite coffee shop we just opened we had planned it all out phoebe was excited because we both thought of it we're like oh instead of the normal coffee we get let's get this special coffee she wants we go there after the last part of the trip because we wanted the coffee to stay hot you you know, kind of thing. And it's pretty close to our house. We get there. The line is out the door and around the block.

0:13:55 Eli: It's a man on a mission He's like Tom

0:14:57 Thomas: I was like, well, we're not doing that because apparently it's soft open, but like hard fucking opened yesterday or something. I don't know. So yeah, it's soft open for Mother's Day, hard open for Father's Day or something like that. And so Phoebe was like no, we're going to do it. I'm like, babe, that'll first off. We also bought mom some like gelato and stuff for after dinner. It's in the car right now. If we wait for this, we'll never go home like she'll which she might like that might be a good way to do mother's day but uh no

0:15:05 Tom: Again that's father's day thomas I don't know getting mixed

0:15:26 Thomas: We went back so we drove all the way back up the normal coffee all that stuff and it was great we got our flowers we had our cards I really like just having the kids pick out stuff that's dumb like that because like I don't know that's what I would like I mean after this or you know before all the sexual favors of course that we agree that we want for father's day not during but whenever the kid bullshit is I don'T mind if they I was even telling some of the kids I was like hey because they were stressing out, what do I write? What do I do? I was like, just do any, whatever. As long as it's meaningful to you, as long as you try, they'll love it. She'll love it. You know, grandma will love it when you're doing cards for grandma too. They'll love it, you know?

0:15:26 Tom: Up

0:15:41 Eli: Not during

0:16:01 Tom: Oh you did something for your mom too

0:16:01 Thomas: And, uh, oh God, no. Uh, it was for Lydia's mom. Yeah.

0:16:05 Tom: Oh lydia's mom okay yeah I wouldn't want you to yeah I was gonna say like that is this is a whole there's a series of new

0:16:09 Thomas: Yeah. Just sorry. It was clarification. No, that's, that's,

0:16:12 Eli: Mom I tried my best

0:16:12 Thomas: I would need to get warned years in advance for yeah you'd

0:16:16 Tom: Leaves yeah you'd have to be I should have warned you that you also have a mother is

0:16:20 Thomas: Have to warn me in the

0:16:20 Tom: My mistake I should have I forgot I forgot it's because I did warn you about mother's day but I forgot to say also Also, you have a mom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:16:22 Thomas: 90s to maintain that

0:16:20 Eli: Yeah no You should have warned Thomas' mom To be a better mom so that he would care yeah exactly crazy

0:16:27 Thomas: You said mother's day you didn't say grandma's day I didn't know that also thought they had their own day but the point and sorry to tell maybe should I Eli should I let you do yours before I talk about my troubles my strife please

0:16:38 Eli: Yes before you talk about your troubles and strife actually you know what hit it with the troubles and strive and then we'll all we'll be cheered up at the end by my victory and then tom will make us all look bad by being like so I traveled back in time to catch you remember when the lady throws that diamond in the end of the titanic I I just jumped right out of the water and caught it.

0:16:43 Thomas: Are you sure okay okay all right yeah Yeah.

0:16:45 Tom: There you go. Yeah,

0:17:05 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:17:07 Thomas: So this is what I wanted to talk about, though, because I had a struggle. This is the first time I've really dealt with a kind of a neurodivergence issue of kids really fucking up this thing, this holiday thing. And I didn't quite handle it well and I don't know how to handle it. You know, I think I do know, but it was one of those like, you know, in the moment when you're trying to handle something and when it comes to a possibly, you know, stubborn spectrum, something kid, the minute you do it wrong at all, you're like, fuck, I fucked this up. I already know this is wrong. I don't I got to stick to it or I gotto find a new plan. Either way, I'm kind of screwed right now because I have to pivot and back and whatever.

0:17:47 Thomas: So I had this happen in the momento I knew I was not handling the best. They were filling out their card for mom. You know? And that's great. Filling out the card. Love doing it. And so I'm not going to say which kid it is, but after Phoebe and Remy did theirs, apparently they took too much space on the card. And so we've got an issue because there's not enough space on The Card for my other nameless kid. Keep in mind, too, we had the long travel, like the kids, you know, it's not as, yeah, they're tired. They slept in. Yeah, but it's like it was also kind of might have happened anyway, to be honest with you. I don't know. I'm not sure. But long story short, I kept trying. I was like, hey, buddy, this is mom's day. Like this is a day for mom. You know how we love and appreciate mom. She does all this stuff. She's amazing. I Was like, just can you just, you know, just yeah. Or just I was hoping to get him like, Hey, buddy. Like mom's great. Can we just honor her a little bit? Maybe put yourself aside slightly, which I think would work on Phoebe. Probably wouldn't work on Remy because nothing works on Remi yet. But you know I think that kind of appeal when Remy's older will probably work.

0:18:15 Tom: He's overtired and everything. His schedule's off. Right.

0:18:35 Tom: Sign the fucking card. Just sign the fucking car. Sign the card. Right.

0:18:53 Thomas: It's just a no, there's something in Arlo. There's the stubbornness of perhaps autism. It'S just a, no go. And so as he needs to sign the card and, uh, I was like, buddy, I know there's not space. First off, you can use the whole back of the card. That's perfect. It'll be great. It''s your own little space. And there's all this space here. I just whole talk. I do a whole fucking what's the show with a not step -by -step, but the one Bob Saget show, you know, know, I do a whole Bob Saget pep talk. I do a whole thing of just like, hey, buddy, the music goes, you know, it's like, I know that the space on the card is apparently the most important thing in the world. I know that. We all know that there's no more important thing than the fucking space on the car that you just write your name on. Doesn't fucking matter. Most important thing the world. But could you chill for your mom? Like, could you just write I love you or happy Mother's Day or a heart or just your fucking name would be fine. If you could just do something like that that that would be awesome and I had this talk I wasn't sarcastic I actually I'm presenting it now in a comedy way but I really I tried to have a hey buddy like it's it's for mom mom's mom's great I really tried to Have a heartfelt thing because I did is how I feel so it wasn't hard but I just wanted people to know I wasn'T being sarcastic in the moment I'm just joking now but like I very much believe in I don't want to ever be sarcastic with the kids when it comes to like I'm trying to get them to do something or you know whatever like discipline them subway I something that's actually really important to me because I was only parented with sarcasm I just think it's so toxic so I just have a heart -to -heart I just tell my feel I have this whole talk and I was like did that work he grabs the card his face expression is pretty neutral I waslike did I make an impact and he starts writing his fucking manifesto he starts riding phoebe and remy took too much space on the guy he just starts writing it all over the card as to why he's doing a school shooting because fucking, they did too much

0:20:41 Thomas: Space. They didn't leave me space. And I was, buddy, come on. Why just talk to you for five minutes? It's just for Mother's Day. Like, she doesn't, that's not, could just be nice. And then he just can't let go. Like, so I have this, it's a real struggle where it's like, with autistic kids, you can't not address the bullshit. That's the problem, you know? You can't just be like, oh, that'S dumb. That doesn't matter. Sidestep it. And even if I do it in a way where I try to acknowledge it it. And I tried to like, you know, be considerate about, Hey, I know you're bummed out about the space on the card, but like, this is for mom, you can't do it. It's like, he, he can't move on until he's inflicted some punishment on somebody for the thing that he views is wrong. And it's really, man, that sucked. And then I got to the point where I was trying to have him do anything nice or say anything nice for mom that whole day. And he just wouldn't do It. Like, I was just like, Hey, just send, you'll say happy mother's day at least. And Then I did the thing where I Was like, like, hey, you know how much mom does for you? And I started listing off things. I was like, yeah, she drives you everywhere. She gets your stuff. And then he's like, she doesn't drive me anywhere because I don't want to go to any of those places. I'm like, oh, yeah, okay. We're doing this.

0:21:49 Thomas: All right. Honestly, I talk about the kids being tired. Also, I was fucking exhausted, so I'm doing my best. But at that point, I'm just like, dude, you got to be fucking kidding me. I couldn't believe that he was going to do the technicality out of, no, actually, my mom doesn't do anything for me, even though his entire fucking life is dependent on his mom, pretty much. It just just drove me nuts and so that's when I pretty much put the message out to you guys that's kind of the first time that I've had the neurodivergence issue ruining something for someone else you know well she doesn't care you know that she's gonna like she's never gonna be upset on her own behalf about anything that's never going to happen so it's

0:21:49 Tom: How did Lydia receive it? Okay.

0:22:27 Thomas: It's like to be fair though I think she was a little bummed that he wasn't saying anything nice or trying to I think She was yeah it wasn't wasn't great.

0:22:32 Tom: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I was just curious. Yeah, right. Yeah. Right.

0:22:37 Eli: It's tough because you hit that wall with neurodivergence because it's funny because you can talk through so many things with a neurod divergent kid that you can't with another little kid. Right. Like you can sit down and just walk a neuro divergent. Really, really. I mean, my kid's fucking five. And if I walk him through like, and look, this is the problems that Kant's categorical imperative has, right? Like he's just not, he's not thinking in a utilitarian way and philosophy, if it doesn't reflect the world around it is useless. And he's like, no, that makes a lot of fucking sense, man. But the thing about the disability is like, when the key does not fit in the lock, it doesn'T fit, right. Right. You might as well try to talk your kid with cerebral palsy out of the wheelchair. Just like, hey, buddy, really? It would mean a lot today if you would walk for mommy. And it's just like, I think I don't got it. I do not have the fucking dice.

0:23:24 Thomas: Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. It might be the way to think about it.

0:23:29 Eli: It's tough because it often presents and I know exactly what you're talking about. It often presents itself as bad behavior in a way that is identical to them just being a kid. Right. Like it doesn't feel different than when they're a little cranky and you go like, Like, hey, come on, man, do a little better. And they're like, ah, all right, I'm a little kid.

0:23:46 Eli: My mind has changed now. And then you just, you're like oh no, I am in neurodiversity swamp and I didn't realize, ah I'm sinking. I'm up to my neck in the quicksand of your disability. And I don't.

0:23:57 Tom: You know, like I also note, too, that like outside of just people with autism to like I've known a lot of people who struggle with tangential issues, which is like there can sometimes be like a convergence of people people who have a tendency toward perfectionism where they want to have, and perfectionism, remember, isn't like everything has to be perfect. And it means mostly I have to be perfectly in control. That is mostly what perfectionism is. And anything that doesn't meet that set of expectations, it's very binary. And so if you've got perfectionism it's a problem, right? It's not like I'm producing great work. I'm a perfectionist. It's I am actually kind of unable to produce any work if that work doesn't check every box and then when that kind of clashes or like kind of coincides I should say with the problem of over universalizing you can have people who are like well this isn't what I envisioned and I wouldn't like it if it were like this and because I wouldn'T like it there's no way she can like it and so it's the thought that counts and this thought thought is not what I wanted. And so like, I am unhappy. I'm not saying it's the case with Arlo. I'm just saying like, it's this, I can actually see this playing out with a lot of different types of personalities where it's

0:25:02 Thomas: Wish that were it yeah yeah yeah

0:25:13 Tom: Like, okay, I have, I Have an expectation and I want to do this thing. And then I opened that card and that card doesn't have enough room. And now I can't do the thing that I want. So if I wouldn't like it, how can you like it? It's impossible for you to like this thing that I don't find personally acceptable that's why I was curious how lydia received the card because that's very common and that's actually common in a lot of adults too you can't even believe how many people that I work with that I have to sort of walk through like hey like the end result is a good result everybody's happy with it you are actually the only one unhappy happy with the result and that matters a lot less

0:25:50 Thomas: Think what makes it even worse for me with arlo is that I know my boy he doesn't give a shit about the card he is so sensitive to what he perceives as like slights against him or unfairnesses against him that made it even worse because I know he doesn'T actually give a SHIT about the car he cares that he DIDN'T get his little space and it's like it's really hard in those moments to be able to be sympathetic to it when I know that it's just that I couldn't get him to care about mother's day at all I was I was actually, I'm a little worried, like for real worried because at no point could I get him to give a shit about it. But then later it's weird. Cause like something like a birthday, like someone else's birthday. I think he's pretty good with that. It's so hard because there's a selfishness that comes with Arlo that is really tough. But at the same time, if you can, I think if you Can get him to understand something, then all of a sudden he becomes really cool about stuff.

0:26:51 Thomas: You know what I mean? It's kind of that duality of the tism.

0:26:51 Eli: I was gonna say something that has deeply helped me. It's a pretty big misconception around autistic and neurodivergent people. Well, this is big on ADHD and ADD as well, that they lack empathy, but it is not a lack of empathy, even though it really seems like it. It is a lack of emotional attention. So the thing that they have found is actually autistic people, by and large, significantly more empathetic than neurodiverse people. They do not focus their emotional attention to natural cues.

0:27:24 Eli: And so when you say this really matters, they don't know why. You can't just tell most neurodiverse people this really matters, right? When they're an adult, they've learned to mask. And so they'll do a lot of masking behaviors that sort of imply importance. But one of the things that we talk about and one of things we work on all the time is focus your mind, focus your mind, focus your mind, right? Because it really is about focus. And when they can lock in, right, when the mind can lock in on the other person in the way that you and I as neurotypicals recognize as empathy, it instantly kicks in, Right? They're so empathetic. The thing that comes up is like, neurodiverse people will be the first when they're little kids who like run over to the crying baby or notice the emotional thing that's happening in the room. The thing is, because they are so aware of that and their filter is broken at the same time they're learning two contrary skills they're learning to ignore their empathy because the teacher's kind of in a bad mood and nobody's talking about it and they're learning to pay attention to empathy because you're trying to direct their emotional attention to emotionally appropriate ways or empathetically appropriate ways but boy do I fucking get it man because there are moments where you're like hey this thing makes people sad and in max's case he just he does the the opposite right because

0:28:46 Eli: He's trying to cover it he'll be like no it makes them happy or no it's funny right like that's that it's his defense mechanism and it it really it made it so much easier for me when I realized it was a matter of emotional attention and empathy because I'll tell you I'm not doing a we need to talk about kevin you see those fucking blubbering moms whose kids are a mass shooter and they get up there I know don't jesus don't get your hug but I'm I'm not raising a monster, okay?

0:29:03 Thomas: What? Oh, yeah. Yeah yeah.

0:29:13 Eli: I'm Not Doing It. We'll all take a drive into a nearby lake before we all fucking talk about Kevin.

0:29:17 Thomas: I think that's right. I think that that strikes me as totally correct just running off of parenting and experience. I'm not you know not making any science claims but it does feel yeah it does feel like they need more teaching because like I guess when you think about it there's probably two phases to it, which is one is like empathy maybe, but the other is like recognizing what would require empathy. I mean, you could overempathize and you could be worried that that rock is hurt. It's like recognizingwhat might be going through an experience that's relevant in terms of that. And I think that sounds like probably more where the issue is. It's more like they aren't as able easily to recognize for themselves right away which things or people or situations require that. But when they do, I think they are quite empathetic. And I think I've seen

0:29:25 Eli: I am.

0:30:02 Thomas: That with Arlo as well. But it makes for this thing where I think publicly we have a lot of experience with maybe neurodivergent people who weren't fucking parented well or weren't taught that. And I do think there are a lot OF tech CEOs that just don't have that empathy at all or didn't train. It weren't thought that or were actively taught the opposite of that. I feel like it can go way more right and way more wrong. You know what I mean?

0:30:24 Thomas: Like it's like some of the best people in the entire world and also Elon Musk or whatever. It's like, hmm,

0:30:24 Tom: Yeah yeah

0:30:28 Eli: Well, you're speaking to exactly what the problem is, which is that a lot of them inadvertently train their empathy out of them because the empathetic reactions they have early are inappropriate, right?

0:30:41 Thomas: Hmm.

0:30:41 Eli: So when something is unjust, right, so the first sense of justice that we have is for ourselves, right. Right? The most empathetic kids are always the ones who feel safest, right? The foundation of empathy, the foundation of caring about other people universally is how safe do you feel? That's not a nice thing to know, right.

0:30:53 Thomas: Interesting. Yeah.

0:30:59 Eli: You would like to think that we have some sort of internal clock of kindness or a jar full of human goodness, but it's just not true. The safer you are, the kinder you are. Par none, every study, every possible metric, trick, safer, kinder, less safe, less kind. Right. And so what happens for neurodivergent people is their first sense of justice is this very, very strict thing that does not match up with the rest of the world. So there's a loud noise and they get really upset about it. And everyone says, you are overreacting.

0:31:30 Thomas: Yeah, interesting.

0:31:31 Eli: Stop feeling that way. Right? And so then later they see someone crying on the playground and they're like, oh, don't worry. I've been told multiple times that the thing that really bothers me is an overreaction. Stop feeling that way. And then all the grownups go, your kid's a fuck and we need to talk about Kevin.

0:31:50 Thomas: Jesus.

0:31:50 Eli: He needs to stop talking about Kevin or start talking about heaven. I didn't see that movie.

0:31:53 Thomas: I don't know what that is. But yes, everything's true.

0:32:01 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:32:03 Tom: I would offer this as well because I mean like I I don't know if any of the kids in my house none of them have been diagnosed autistic but they're all of thekids in my house certainly are neurodivergent and one of the things that I've learned is that with people that have some of these neurodivergences. They oftentimes can't hold emotional space for two things at the exact same time. So in the situation that you had with Arlo, what he was really trying to do was hold two emotional spaces at the same time, and it's impossible for him. Emotional space number one is, I wanted something in the guise of this card, right?

0:32:38 Tom: I wanted room or whatever it was. My expectations weren't met. I'm frustrated and upset by it and now at the same time that I'm trying to hold this space for me personally you're asking me to also hold this separate emotional space now for mom and that is not for for some kids with neurodivergencies that's not really possible to do or it's not practical for them to do it's a developed skill later in life right so like one thing that I do know is that with some kids like you can't have any surprises and nothing can be done on a rush, gosh.

0:32:37 Thomas: Yeah yeah.

0:33:11 Tom: So like if this had happeneded and you had and I'm not blaming you on this at all, but let's say this had happen and a week ahead of time, you were like, hey, let's or three, two days the day before. Let's actually let me scale it back. Let me scale up. Let's scale it up. I'm a crazy person.

0:33:16 Thomas: I love how Tom's so kind. No, he's so kind. He's like, I'm not blaming you. But if this had happened like, you know, any amount of time ahead of the thing

0:33:20 Eli: Tom, Tom, you optimistic rube.

0:33:29 Tom: So what you could have done is said, OK, I get that, buddy. Let's go get a car just for you from mom. Right. And now that short circuits it. And because he's no longer in that emotional space, now he has room to consider and be empathetic to mom. Right and so that may have changed the day another alternative might have been let's get out a special piece of paper for you to put in the card where you can write your message with plenty of room but I think for a lot of kids that have emotional regulation problems or neurodivergencies, yeah well and you can't ask them to do those two emotional things at the same time I'm I'm an adult who is at least not diagnosed with any neurodivergencies and if my emotions get ramped up not on air

0:33:29 Eli: Would

0:33:43 Thomas: For sure yeah yeah you need the time

0:34:08 Eli: You like me to diagnose you based on this podcast, Tom? I've got it.

0:34:11 Tom: Not on air now I've told you this on several shows not on

0:34:14 Eli: All right, gentlemen, then. And before we go, one second, everybody, I'm sorry, this one's going to be short. I got to do, I got a diagnosed Tom. I need a lot of time. My wrist is hurting.

0:34:19 Tom: Here oh that's a lot you just keep listing things I don't feel good about this but yeah

0:34:25 Thomas: You shouldn't jack off while you do it I think that's

0:34:28 Eli: I tell my psychiatrist that all the time. Yeah.

0:34:31 Tom: So but like think about yourselves maybe you're very different than I am but if my emotions get too high like just too high I become a less empathetic person I think what we don't understand about kids is we're like why are you fucking freaking out about nothing and like that's always the wrong question the first thing is like okay you are freaking out it's about nothing but I can't ask you then to hold more you can't juggle more things you're maximally juggling right now so I can't throw more balls or they're all gonna spill you know

0:34:38 Thomas: Of course yeah that's everybody yep yeah yeah I think it's 100 right I think everything you guys said is right totally I think this is one where I let off with like you can't skip the thing that's why I was saying that like you can't skip over the dumb bullshit like you just can't apparently with certain kids. And, uh, I fucked it up. I got to take the L I didn't handle it. It was the time thing we were. Yeah, no. Well, it also was like, it was the last thing we decided to do. Like we had the flowers, we had all this stuff. And then we're, I was just trying to like, get to the point where Lydia, like we, we hadn't even gone to see her yet.

0:35:15 Tom: Well I don't know that in the moment anybody would be I'd be fucking I'd be so frustrated.

0:35:30 Thomas: I was like okay, can we get all this shit? So it was the last things we had to do and yeah, yep. Yep.

0:35:32 Eli: That's where neurodivergence thrives is just short of the finish line, Thomas. That's neurod divergence is favorite place to set up camp. Don't you know?

0:35:40 Thomas: Totally. A hundred percent. I managed this badly, but that's, that's given me a lot want to hear you know a success story yeah

0:35:48 Eli: All right. So before Tom makes me look stupid and bad. So I was like, I don't know. I'm not fucking it up this this year. Now, major parent, we've had some fucking major parenting wins. Not only is the hitting phase largely over, we're getting really good. We're getting so many double star days at school. Yeah. Well, he's not hitting us hardly at all. We had like one weekend where he took a swing at Anna and I was like, Hey man, I'm not a hitting dad, but I barely made it through 4 .5 to 5 .5. And so I need you to really consider how much of Americans agree. I don't know if you heard that episode of dear old dads but a bunch of dads think it's not a moral issue for me to fucking cartwheel kick you across this house but no but he's been doing amazing he's been just the growth is incredible but one thing that's been pretty sad the last however many months is you know we used to go to these indoor playgrounds all the time I'm sure I told you guys about him this place called catch air big closed -in indoor playground which is amazing for workaholic dads like me because he's in a giant indoor

0:36:03 Tom: I'm so glad to hear that, man.

0:36:13 Thomas: So true not a soul in this land will convict me apparently oh god

0:36:50 Eli: Space can't get kidnapped I can work in the corner and he's actually having a good time and I can tell we're not in the beginning of a sad movie right because sometimes you've you're doing a compromise thing with your kid and you can tell later the heroin needle they're gonna flash back to that moment of you being like one second right and you're just like ah I'm trying to edit these podcasts damn you youtube shorts why are you so complicated but No, he's having a fucking great time but he stopped a couple months ago because they have announcements there and the announcements really bother him and we can't guarantee that they're not going to make announcements and so every couple of days every couple of weeks not every couple days that would be insane every week or so I'll be like hey buddy how about we go back to catch air and he's been like no the announcements and I've been like all right king whenever you're you let me know king we're ready when you are the other day apropos of fucking nothing. I'm like, hey, how about some catch air? And he's like, could I wear my headphones? And I'm, like, fuck yeah, King. You can wear your headphones. And he was like, all right. We go. We got to go. He has a motherfucking blast, right?

0:37:11 Thomas: Trying to podcast yeah yeah

0:37:59 Tom: Good.

0:37:59 Eli: Like, the thing about kids is when they have fun, they have fucking fun. So, he has an amazing time, right. There's two catch airs that we like to go to. First time we go to the first one, immediately upon leaving, he's, like., Let's go to the other one. And I'm like, ah, not one a day, my man, I am going to die. So I'm like, Hey, Sunday, Sunday morning. If you're good Friday and Saturday, Sunday morning, we can go to catch air. So my wife wakes up. I wake up with Max. So when Anna wakes up, she's like, Oh, maybe I want to come. And I'm like you're going to stay home. You're going to scroll on your phone.

0:38:02 Thomas: It's the best yeah you sure

0:38:34 Tom: For Mother's Day, you're not invited.

0:38:35 Eli: You you're not invited. Max Max and I were at catch air from 10 a .m. until I dropped him off at the babysitter's. So just straight all morning for mom. Then we got a little picnic. So me and Anna have a little picnic tradition, which is we go to Whole Foods, which has the combination of nice like meats and cheeses she likes and vegan shit I can eat. And so we go and we get a bunch of shit and we make ourselves a little Picnic and we just sit and have an indoor day picnic right in the middle, right there in the middle of the whole foods until, and the cops are slow to respond. Let me tell you, they said, they say, Oh, the picnic couple is back, but they don't care. Uh, no, we did it at home and it was lovely. And then she went to a fiddle jam and I got her a gift that I knew she really wanted. It was fuck. I fucking, I even nailed grandma. I got like three things for mom. One was like a little thing. Second was a little thing. And then I got it like a really major, nice thing that I know she wanted a ton and they came like three different days in a row it fuck it I nailed it nailed it no poop in these

0:38:53 Thomas: Don't yeah wow like at the whole foods wow check those

0:39:38 Eli: Pants completely poopless, you could eat off these pants

0:39:45 Tom: I love how what moms really want for Mother's Day is for like a day where they're like, can I just not be a mom today like that's what I want is just go away just everybody go away I love it I love

0:39:50 Thomas: Pants yeah and they deserve

0:39:54 Eli: Mm-hmm, yeah, that's what they need they just need and anyone who says otherwise I think has stockholm syndrome like I've said that before and my moms in my life have been like no be with my kids and I'm like you're those people People who love jihad, right? Those like white girls who fly to Istanbul and try to join jihad. That's you, just so you know.

0:40:11 Tom: It well like I think the highlight for mother's day over here was really like what the kids did this year for hayley so that was like you know in years past it's been uh more miss than hit from the kids because as the kids get older like the school doesn't tell the kids hey mother's day is coming let's do a nice little project or what have

0:40:36 Thomas: It Oh, which is the best when they do that it's so nice

0:40:38 Tom: You right so like for a long time when the kids are little like the school kind of handles that so the kid comes home and they're all proud, yeah. I know right mother's

0:40:42 Thomas: Yeah I still need that by the way I need Tom's like all right thomas draw this, trace your hand to make a turkey or whatever. Let's just fucking it's close enough enough I

0:40:49 Tom: Day is coming so like as the kids get older like you kind of want them to develop some of those like gift giving and honoring and recognizing skills on their own but like they don't do a great job all the time so like in previous years there's been some misses more than hits but this year it was great like donovan got hayley a very nice card some flowers uh some chocolates specifically too because like she'll be the first to say it hayley is literally impossible to buy for impossible especially right now because you know she really can't go out anywhere she really is just unable to leave the house for much, so she can't go out anywhere. Her diet is unbelievably restricted. We basically eat the same two meals. We've eaten the same 2 meals every day for 2 1⁄2 months. So it's very difficult, very difficult, like to buy a little treat or take you out to something. Those are very tough. But he bought her some chocolates that she can eat, and there's basically none except for a couple that she Can eat. So he did great. There's flowers, a card, some chocolates. Very nice aislinn made her uh cookies a specific recipe that hayley can eat it's not a recipe that aislyn likes or has even tried before so it was just an entire batch of cookies start to finish just for mom jerry put the effort in made this thing entirely for her so that was I think very sweet finn sent an unsolicited message wishing her a happy mother's day doesn't seem like much Look,

0:41:05 Thomas: Didn't like the start of that yeah so

0:42:24 Tom: It doesn't seem like much, but this is a leap forward in that relationship.

0:42:28 Thomas: You mean someone without like someone forcing him kind of thing without someone like manually yeah oh okay oh okay so you did better than me is which thing

0:42:32 Tom: Without a reminder. Yeah, without a reminder, yeah, without a reminder. So, you know, all very nice things from the kids to Haley, which is, you know, and all unbidden, all entirely without my orchestration or, you know, puppet mastering in the background, which I thought was great. And like it really made a difference to Hale. Like Haley was like, well, shit, like you You didn't have a hand in any of it. I'm like, no, I never had any of that.

0:42:55 Thomas: So that's why you reminded me as your puppet mastering hands were

0:42:59 Eli: Were too busy pumping. You were like, I've got one more finger for one more puppet. Yeah.

0:42:59 Thomas: Like ah I need some strings I didn't remember that I did the clutch of a good puppet string in my hand

0:43:03 Tom: Yeah, I got rid of it, I just want to laugh real quick because like this is the constraint I'm under around this time of year. So our anniversary is April 20th. Then Haley's birthday is May 4th. And then Mother's Day is like the next week for

0:43:19 Thomas: And ooh, oh, I'm so with you because our anniversary is April 19th. Arlo's birthday is April 15th and then Mother's Day. So it's like a similar, like just a bunch of shit right in a row.

0:43:30 Tom: Haley. I've got to come up with gift ideas like I've got 30 days and I've got three major Haley-centric holidays that I've got to like work around. Right. I got to get me off to the side. Yeah.

0:43:39 Thomas: You don't even have a Tom to text you about it. Huh? How do you do it? Yeah.

0:43:45 Eli: He's got the shock watch.

0:43:46 Thomas: If you text me early enough, I could text you back that.

0:43:50 Tom: So yeah. See. All right.

0:43:50 Thomas: No, that doesn't. Nice.

0:43:51 Eli: No, not going to happen.

0:43:51 Tom: No, I don't see. So I did real well for anniversary and for birthday. I think I knocked those out of the park. And then for Mother's Day a while back, she was going through some old like jewelry and stuff that she had and just kind of like setting stuff aside like, oh, this is like older, you know, give give this to Aislinn when she gets a little older and she came across like a very nice Movado watch that you know wasn't working and needed to be repaired and didn't fit anymore and like the links were gone and stuff and so I was like oh sure and she seemed a little bummed that it was no longer going to function for her and she's like well I guess set it to the side we can take it somewhere and have it fixed up for Aisling at some point I'm like okay great and then I immediately made a note of which one it was and then they don't make it anymore but I found the next closest model or whatever and I bought her a watch that looks very very much like the one that that she clearly loved before and couldn't no longer use. So that was her gift for Mother's Day. Yeah, I thought it was pretty good.

0:44:43 Eli: Nice. All right. Well, there you have it. The poopy pants update from the dads.

0:44:50 Thomas: Almost no skid marks.

0:44:51 Tom: So, oh God.

0:44:53 Clip: DEAR OLD DAD

0:45:00 Eli: Gentlemen, before we go. My friend asked me to help round up his 37 sheep. I said 40 Business is easy. Everyone's an idiot.

0:45:58 Tom: Mother's day, you're not invited.

0:46:00 Eli: No poop in these pants completely Poopless pants you could eat off these pants

0:46:07 Thomas: Nice trace your hand to make a turkey or whatever let's just fucking do it, it's close enough dude, you can't record the podcast

0:46:17 Eli: Sorry, I was leaning forward to

0:46:20 Thomas: 10 feet away from the podcast, what's happening trying to get out of this show

0:46:20 Eli: To get my dad joke. All right, but the only thing worse than having sex with Thomas Smith