DOD274: You Better Ask Nicely

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's taking the activity bus. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:37 Eli: Oh, Tom, did they tell you it was the activity bus?

0:00:38 Thomas: What's the activity bus? I don't know what that is. There's not a real activity bus. Is this from Harry Potter?

0:00:40 Tom: No, this was the real activity bus! I already got in trouble in our very early episodes for, there is an activity bus? I took the activity every day! Late, home from high school. God damn it.

0:00:42 Eli: Was that the? Yeah. Hey, did that bus have a little less capacity than maybe a standard bus, Tom?

0:00:53 Thomas: Oh, I kind of remember that.

0:00:57 Tom: No, no, no. I already got in trouble for that, early in our recording history.

0:01:02 Eli: Was there a lot of hugs on that bus?

0:01:05 Tom: Early listeners of this show will know that I did take a bus like that when I was a young person because I went to school.

0:01:11 Thomas: You can't blame Tom for that because he was subject to all of the things that people are saying are offensive like literally

0:01:18 Eli: Yeah, Tom.

0:01:19 Tom: Yeah, I went to that school.

0:01:19 Thomas: Tom was called all of the offensive things you can be that mad at him yeah it's

0:01:22 Eli: Your youth was very offensive. Can I say? You are canceled. In the words of your mom,

0:01:31 Tom: Just because it's like here's my life. We just don't want to hear about it, actually. It's fine. You didn't do anything wrong. We just didn't want you to hear about your life anymore, Tom. Yeah, so it's on. It's awkward.

0:01:38 Eli: It's a little problematic. Little tropey. Little Tropey?

0:01:42 Thomas: Like when they came back from the war and they're like I don't know how to be a civilian now that's like tom tom's aged into an age yeah childhood yeah the

0:01:47 Eli: Yes, that's how tom came back from the activity bus yeah

0:01:55 Tom: When I was in high school, it was so funny because when I was in high School, I wasn't allowed to join sports. And we talked about this before. I wasn t allowed to joined sports, but my dad didn't get home till six o 'clock. So my time was my time from the time I got out of school until my dad came home at six o clock. I was just expected to be home when he got home so we could have dinner. So every single day, after school, I stayed after school to work out. So I took the activity called it the activity bus the late bus it's just a bus yeah is that what you had it you had as the late bus yeah

0:02:25 Thomas: Late bus that's what it was that's why we had called it yeah I did not know what an activity

0:02:27 Eli: Late they called it the late bloomer bus

0:02:31 Tom: Well it's for people that had after -school activities you know if you're in journalism or you know so

0:02:32 Thomas: Bus the late bloomer yeah yeah

0:02:36 Eli: Yeah no max has a lot of those we've got him in speech therapy for some of his activities

0:02:39 Tom: That's how I sneakily joined sports teams without anyone knowing for

0:02:47 Thomas: Yeah the sports kids would take that one.

0:02:48 Tom: A while yeah right yeah yeah yeah

0:02:48 Thomas: Yeah. Autistic kids.

0:02:48 Eli: And goes to a summer camp for autistic kids my

0:02:53 Tom: So activist autistic

0:02:58 Thomas: Hold on. I want to hear Eli's tight 20 about how his town is burning down and his firefighters don't know what to do.

0:03:03 Eli: Town is on fire so I hate to dox myself because this town has

0:03:04 Tom: Yeah what do you mean your town is on

0:03:09 Eli: Three people in it. So it'll be pretty obvious to tell where I'm from. But my town is on fire. Now, you're probably thinking, wait Eli, do you mean right now? Yes, I do mean right Now. And here's the thing. We're taking a risk here, podcast listener. Because by the time you Google this, someone might have really gotten hurt. And this story isn't funny anymore. But, I need you to understand that Monday,

0:03:09 Thomas: I really, for

0:03:32 Tom: Fire it's funny so far

0:03:32 Thomas: Now it's funny on

0:03:32 Eli: May 4th, at 1 .29pm. The only person who was injured was a firefighter hurt his elbow like he ran by and bonked his elbow on something and he's fine.

0:03:43 Thomas: The fire. Yeah. Yeah, how'd that even come out?

0:03:45 Tom: I wouldn't tell anyone if that happened to me if I'm a fucking firefighter and I got a fucking like I whacked my funny bone or something I'd be like no I didn't no I'm a tough ass firefighter fuck you

0:03:56 Thomas: Because we, I mean, you guys don't live in fire town, But like we have a thing that happens where the whole state gets on fire and then there will be press conferences on it every day where they have to be like, all right, it's 0 % contained. That's my favorite part is when they bother saying it's zero percent contained.

0:04:05 Tom: Right fire's still hot

0:04:12 Thomas: And it's like, what does that mean? You know, like it, I just feel like it has to, just odds wise, it has got to be one or two, you know, there's probably a river or a rock or a, but

0:04:20 Tom: Residents should be advised to check if they're on fire at the time of this press conference, if you're on fire, stop it. Just stop it You should stop being on fire

0:04:24 Eli: Yeah. Stop it. Don't go into the forest.

0:04:28 Thomas: These poor, tired, exhausted firefighters will be like well, seven of us died, it is zero percent contained we're all gonna die we're doing our best they're tired they haven't slept meanwhile eli's town the guy's like I got an owie ow and it's hot it's they don't tell you it's really

0:04:47 Eli: It's going to be fucking hot.

0:04:47 Thomas: Hot well

0:04:48 Tom: Just as a quick dystopian America side quest here on that, but like I read something like maybe a year ago about how a bunch of the firefighters out in California who put out the fires have become, for lack of a better term, contract gig workers and they essentially have no health benefits now.

0:05:06 Thomas: Are you talking about the prisoners that we have do it in a very problematic oh

0:05:09 Tom: That's outside of the prisoners That at least. Yeah. So a huge amount. They need so many firefighters that like a huge amount of these firefighting outfits are privately contracted and they just like get people and they are they work on contract and then they work out their contract and Then they're no longer employed. And so they're No longer insured but these are things with lifelong potential health consequences and then also like these guys get hurt sometimes, you know, even if it's not fire like throw their back up break a knee you know whatever it's hard work yeah right but I mean there's like lots of ways to get hurt I guess is all I'm saying and like these guys get hurt and then they can't work out their contract and so they lose their health insurance so it's like it's a whole thing where it's wildly

0:05:11 Thomas: Outside of the prisoners oh wow yeah jesus yeah oh they get hurt in fires We have real fires out here. Yeah.

0:05:53 Tom: Exploitive industry

0:05:53 Eli: Did think it was weird when Uber added that bar where you can click put out a fire, right? Because the package one is already odd enough, but the fact that you could navigate over to put out a fire near me, I feel like it's weird that you can use the app for that.

0:06:09 Eli: It was just me. In case you were wondering what I was doing while you were talking just now, Tom, I was thinking of all the apps and then trying to come up with a fire pun and I failed.

0:06:09 Tom: All right so I'm sorry

0:06:19 Eli: I failed just in case you wanted wanted to know so oh

0:06:20 Thomas: Amazon fire TV.

0:06:19 Tom: Sidetrack you can you can actually go on tinder and swipe right on your fire yeah see tinder there you go yeah right yeah

0:06:24 Eli: See tinder would have been amazing so good

0:06:24 Thomas: Oh, yeah. Tinder is a little fire thingy. How does Tom know that? And we don't.

0:06:29 Eli: He's quick like

0:06:29 Tom: That hurts my feelings I don't know I had one

0:06:32 Thomas: The last time you dated, it was the you had VHS tapes that. No, I'm just kidding.

0:06:32 Eli: That tom's on tinder of your victims tom swipes through tinder and he's like it's all blank I can't see it I can see it no idea

0:06:39 Thomas: Have your victims.

0:06:40 Tom: Feeling my victims jesus christ

0:06:46 Thomas: Oh, yes. That's when he'd know he dated everybody. Everybody. Tom wouldn't know if he either dated everybody or if the world ended. That would be like a weird, all of a sudden he can't see. He's like, did I start dating men too?

0:06:55 Eli: Yes if

0:06:56 Tom: Everybody gets raptured I'm like did I date a lot I must have god damn I'm a whore holy shit it wow

0:07:03 Eli: You did a Kony 2012 if you like jerked off in public the next day could use remember the Kony 2012 guy you remember this

0:07:07 Tom: What no

0:07:07 Thomas: I don't, yeah, I do know what you're talking about, but I don'T, what's the jerked off in public thing? What is that?

0:07:14 Eli: Okay so the guy who made the Kony 2012 whatever video no no no

0:07:18 Thomas: Oh, so not Kony himself. Okay. I didn't think that's what, yeah.

0:07:22 Tom: I am still lost so

0:07:22 Eli: He he was brought to justice I believe by an international human rights court

0:07:27 Tom: Is this gonna be another thing where the jimmy john guy isn't really the jimmie john

0:07:28 Thomas: Oh my God. I allegedly am the only ADHD person here, and we are on the 15th Russian doll topic of something else. Do you remember Kony 2012, Tom?

0:07:36 Eli: No do

0:07:36 Tom: Guy no I don't even know what's happening right

0:07:39 Eli: You remember this

0:07:40 Thomas: That was the weirdest fucking thing that happened.

0:07:42 Eli: It's one of the first viral videos so basically this guy made a youtube mini essay about this warlord Kony who was doing all sorts of not cash money stuff a real You'll stinker, this Kony fella. Yeah.

0:07:55 Tom: Now oh I remember this now I do remember this yeah yeah yeah sure

0:07:57 Eli: And the video went really viral. It got a bunch of international attention. That guy, the guy who made the video, not the warlord, the guy Who made the Video had, like, a nervous breakdown as a result of the fame, which included him jerking off in public. He, like. Jerked off under the hood of a car and got arrested.

0:08:15 Eli: Yeah. So my question for you, which is why it's related to the topic, is if you did that, would you not be able to see anybody the next day when it was over that's right you

0:08:14 Tom: Standard nervous breakdown stuff well I wouldn't be able able to see the car anymore right yeah

0:08:32 Eli: Basically have the wonder woman version of an invisible jet but just for you

0:08:35 Thomas: Yeah. A car that's only visible for you. That's not as useful as the other way around.

0:08:35 Tom: Right right the

0:08:40 Eli: So let me explain something about firefighters because I haven't insulted our nation's heroes enough and it's really important that I go on a I'm gonna say three and a half minute rant about this so you become a firefighter because being a cop seems scary but you want all the nice parts and 99 % of the time unless you're in fucking the desert of Savannah or wherever Thomas lives 99 % of the times you just show up and someone's like I smoked and then slept on my baby he dead and you're just like yep you want to put him in my helmet like whatever you want him to do right so it's a pretty cushy sweet

0:09:04 Tom: Desert of savannah jesus

0:09:15 Thomas: Most of the time, it's just a hot calendar-making gig. Yeah. Yeah. It's a modeling gig.

0:09:19 Tom: Christ jesus

0:09:18 Eli: Yeah it's A hot calendar-making gig I think there's a lot of chili involved. I'm obviously well educated on the subject.

0:09:24 Tom: I would like to disassociate myself from this portion of the program this is

0:09:26 Thomas: No, there is

0:09:27 Eli: You want to just, you want to disassociate like you're in your own world.

0:09:29 Thomas: One disassociation. You want to jack off on a car hood? Yeah. Like the guy who had a public breakdown allegedly. I was just looking at the Wikipedia of those. It doesn't say jacked off on our car hood. That might've been an Eli detail just said he was naked, but okay.

0:09:32 Tom: Tom I'm

0:09:36 Eli: It's possible. Yeah.

0:09:45 Thomas: But I will say our editor one, Lydia Smith is probably coming her jeans right now talking about firefighters. Cause if there's one stereotype is that every Every woman I know is into firefighters. Like that one holds up.

0:09:56 Eli: And I want to say as a means of an apology, firefighters fucking rock. You never hear like, oh, firefighters killed another black guy. No, they're just, they're net positive. It's nothing but good. Naked for the ladies, naked it for the men. Apparently they fight fires, but not here in my part of Jersey. So, I should explain what happened. So they were making Jersey, and my part of Jersey, it sucks, my town, but it's between two towns that really, really don't suck. So we have all the warehouses, all the garages, all the stuff you don't want to live next to, is in my town. And one of the things we have is an old, abandoned mattress warehouse apparently.

0:10:35 Thomas: Abandoned.

0:10:36 Eli: Apparently nobody with a fucking fire extinguisher hangs out in there and so that caught fire yesterday morning the

0:10:36 Tom: Just oh my god

0:10:44 Thomas: That's got to be a big one.

0:10:44 Tom: The abandoned mattress factory jesus christ the old fireworks factory guys we didn't yeah expect that

0:10:48 Thomas: The abandoned kindling factory. Yeah.

0:10:46 Eli: Abandoned mattress factory caught on fire yesterday we send our like fire man over right he's got the fucking he's got the fire extinguisher he bought at Home Depot that

0:10:57 Thomas: Fireman. He's like mid modeling. He's got makeup and lights on.

0:11:03 Tom: It's just some guy named phil

0:11:03 Eli: Afternoon exact yes he's

0:11:03 Thomas: He's oh shit. He's, like, his shirt's off. He's not wearing anything. He's just like, fuck, I got, I'm, even

0:11:07 Eli: Reading the tag with shaky hands as he heads over and our town is like we can't fucking put this fire out even a little we don't have shit

0:11:15 Thomas: A little.

0:11:15 Tom: Just we're making it worse hey dave stop adding fire to it you can't fight fire with fire that's just an expression.

0:11:23 Eli: Exactly so we turn to the rich towns around us and they ignore us but sometimes they acknowledge us right because they have to we all share a zip code and so sometimes they're like hey what do you want other town in central new jersey and we're like do you guys have any like other real trucks because ours are all fucking broken and we have a garden hose but not the big one made out of cloth or rubber or whatever it's supposed to be made out and they were like dude it's gonna take us a while to get over there how bad's the fire and we were like oh mattresses they were like what and we were like mattresses is they caught on fire a bunch of mattresses go away they're like okay great we'll be there set up all the water so Frank our firefighter is like all right I fucking got this so he goes over to our river dunks the hose in there whatever the fuck they do yeah right he dunks a hose in there and they're not gonna get enough water pressure and he's like Like, I'm already having a really hard day. I don't know what that means. Just fucking leave me alone.

0:12:05 Tom: He cups his hands and starts running.

0:12:07 Thomas: It's like an old, like folk story or something.

0:12:24 Eli: So the real firefighters show up. They start to try to fight the fire. And sure enough, we run out of river water. What does that mean? I don't fucking know. But neither does Frank. And now the fire has spread from the one mattress building to, like, the two buildings on either side of it.

0:12:24 Thomas: What oh

0:12:40 Eli: It is now a blazing inferno. A 12-alarm fire.

0:12:40 Thomas: Wow the duvet building and the bed frame

0:12:46 Eli: Yes, a 12-alarm fire. Alarm by them it's fucking everywhere it's bad so we call the governor now look new jersey's a rich state we call the governor and we're like hey um mickey wills uh where there's a fire here in uh go shit fuck jersey and she's like oh thank you for calling me right away and we're like yeah um not right away AND SHE'S LIKE SORRY HOW LONG HOW LONG HAS A BUILDING BEEN ON FIRE IN YOUR TOWN and we're like, 12 hours? And she's like, 12 hours?! And we're, like, 12... 12 hours. It was 12 hours Do you have a... a helicopter? Because we need a... Yeah.

0:13:15 Thomas: Building yeah

0:13:19 Tom: I'm looking at these pictures. It's a conflagration. It's so much.

0:13:24 Thomas: Did you say conflagration uh isn't

0:13:30 Tom: Is that not how it's pronounced?

0:13:31 Eli: That's how it's pronounced here in New Jersey, I'll tell ya.

0:13:34 Thomas: It conflageration or him.

0:13:35 Eli: None of this...

0:13:34 Tom: I don't know.

0:13:36 Eli: No, that's how they say it in fuckin' fancy dance California.

0:13:37 Thomas: I could be wrong. Far be it from me to correct

0:13:39 Tom: I'm sure you're right. I just probably mispronounced it.

0:13:42 Eli: Ooh, goat cheese on my salad and

0:13:42 Thomas: Tom on something, you erudite son of a bitch. Conflagration. Yeah. I'm usually the say stuff fucking wrong. Well, no, Eli is, but

0:13:43 Tom: I think you're right I think it's conflagration yeah no I think you're right I think I pronounced it weird I think I announced it

0:13:49 Eli: The conflagration has ruined the figs on my flatbread. Fuck you so she's like we don't have we have one fire a year we don't have a helicopter so we called New York we're like do you have a helicopter a personally yeah of

0:14:05 Thomas: We're loaded with them. Every Californian has one of those helicopters. Here's the thing. I just have to say this one stupid observation about this and I don't know if you've seen this enough to have this observation those helicopters carrying the water buckets there's something about human perception where my brain cannot possibly fathom that there's any fucking water in there because of the scale of it you see them do the bucket no no the amount yeah it looks like you're it's a half a cup of water

0:14:10 Tom: Weird do

0:14:27 Eli: Course cuz it's not sloshing yeah

0:14:29 Tom: I think the same thing all the time like this seems so inefficient you're just

0:14:34 Thomas: It's like there's no way that's going to do anything you see it up close there's like a video where they do one of those drop things on like I forget what it is like a car or something and it's so much water it crushes the car into a fire it's so much it crush is like the car to oblivion like is that much actual water but because the scale you see it at is always far away on my brain will never accept that there's a bunch of water in there it just looks like a teeny little cup I know it's the weirdest thing.

0:14:43 Eli: They did it on a Make-A-Wish kid yeah so

0:15:01 Thomas: I just had to say it.

0:15:02 Eli: They're like oh do you have a Helicopter in New York's like yeah man we got a helicopter in case there's another 9 -11 so Zora I'm Bob blah blah blah he's like hey you could at one of my cool socialist helicopters and we're like, cool, is it all filled with like Muslim stuff or is it like normal? And he's like, no, it's a normal I'm actually just a really good mayor and we were like, yeah, but like, you know Bernie, like, what's he like? Is he, yeah I bet it's Jewish Anyway, so he lends us a helicopter and in the middle of the night last night, we dumped a big water thing on our fire It's still on fire

0:15:18 Tom: Yes oh jesus christ what is happening

0:15:31 Thomas: I don't know. Elias is a weird character right now. You wet the bed, huh? Wow.

0:15:39 Eli: Yeah, but it is contained, yeah

0:15:43 Thomas: To roughly the city of...

0:15:39 Tom: Anymore right yeah it's it's only in jersey now so there's no problems

0:15:45 Eli: To roughly my city of shitfuck.

0:15:45 Thomas: Yeah. Wow. And the only thing worse than your mattress is being on fire oh

0:15:53 Eli: The only thing worse than my town being on fire is that they canceled my son's school and we have to parent

0:15:59 Thomas: Nice oh is the uh is the smoke like really bad

0:15:59 Tom: Oh the whole day uh

0:15:59 Eli: All day. Yeah. Oh, the smoke is everywhere and the fire is a half a block from my son. School. Yeah. No, the our main street is taken over by this fire. I need you to understand there's one street in my fucking town. We are one long road. Our town is 10 meters long and the main thoroughfare of it was apparently a mattress fire surrounded by matchsticks we don't have a police department for like all last night if you called the cops they were like figure it out kill him don't kill him I don't know this

0:16:07 Thomas: Oh jesus wow wow wow yeah

0:16:38 Tom: Shit

0:16:38 Eli: One's on you look if you want to make a fire go away you need water but if you wanna make a podcast stay you need patreon dollars over at patreon.com/dear old dads where for as little as a dollar you get a commercial-free version of every single episode, plus a little parenting bonus story at the end, monthly bonus episodes, and a chance to win a one-night experience with the one, the only, Tom Curry. That's right.

0:17:04 Tom: Did

0:17:06 Thomas: I was hoping it was

0:17:06 Tom: I sign up for this nothing will happen

0:17:06 Eli: This month, if you sign up for our Patreon, I will text you Tom's cell phone number. And if you text him, are you coming enough times, he'll think he already made plans with you, and then you can just show up. Hang out with tom all night long patreon.com/dear old dads Tom's cell phone number not included rip into

0:17:28 Tom: And nope nope all right

0:17:37 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:17:39 Tom: So I had an experience a couple of weeks ago that I wanted to run past you guys because it was one of those moments where you realize that the way that you were parented that you didn't really think too much about and that maybe even kind of worked for you to some degree makes you a pathological lunatic and then you don't sort of like realize that until tell something. Yes, I had, this is a longer way to say dear old dads. So just, I want to give you like a little bit of backstory first. So when I was growing up, my dad was born in 1947. So like there was a strong, heavy emphasis on an authoritarian household. And we talked about this before, very authoritarian household, what dad said goes. But beyond that, there was this this real heavy emphasis on like obedience and politeness

0:17:55 Thomas: Me hmm that's just this show what's the name of the

0:18:25 Tom: As being like, not just necessary, but like inherently held as a virtue, right? Like they're just like a value that you hold, like being polite is just a value. That like now at the age of 40, 48.

0:18:25 Thomas: Show hmm and actually Tom's a rebel because every day his dad would say credulity is a virtue every

0:18:45 Tom: And so like, I grew up with this idea about what was polite and what wasn't polite and how how important it was to be polite. And I never really thought about them, right? Because these are these sort of like embedded assumptions that are part of growing up. And then like it came to like a point a couple of weeks ago where I realized I was being reactive about something insane, like genuinely insane. I'll tell you the story. So Aislinn is taking, she's a freshman in high school. She's taking an advanced placement class. The advanced placement classes, human geography. The test is actually tomorrow, as a matter of fact. And she joined a study group, an after -school study group to prep for the test. So she wants to get ready for the task. And the way she approached me with this information was basically like, I joined this study group and you're gonna have to pick me up after school. I say that and I'm like, I'm saying something perfectly normal, but that to me felt fucking insane. That felt insane to me.

0:19:21 Thomas: Day wow

0:19:45 Eli: It is insane it is insane

0:19:47 Thomas: Well what was the exact wording just so we we know how insane you

0:19:51 Tom: I don't remember exactly what the wording was, but it was just like I joined this study group and

0:19:54 Eli: He was too busy tearing the couch in half

0:19:57 Tom: I didn't say it like I like my response to her was like, OK, well, let me look at my calendar and we'll figure out because she had different days for different sessions. We'll figure it out. I'll put it in my calendar. We'll work around it. But in my head, I'm having an entirely different conversation. So I did at least realize that like I'm being a crazy person in the moment. The conversation I'm Having is like, you can't just assume my time. You're a kid. You have to ask first. Right.

0:20:05 Eli: You bitch yeah kids do not inform adults of what they're going to

0:20:21 Tom: Right. But that is not how I want us to live and behave here in our house. Like, I actually want the kids to be free to join clubs. We push them to do this all the time. We're constantly telling them, say yes to new experiences, join clubs, please do a sport, please do this. We're consistently giving this message that we want them to excel in school. We want them to join stuff. We wanted to be more engaged, but then like, but you also have to come ask my permission because it might be inconvenient for me is contrary to that message oh no I think it is I think that it

0:20:56 Eli: Do no no it's not. You're insane. You were sane before. Now you're one of those weird torture victims who can't stop talking about how great North Korea is, is what you are now. Look, obviously you want your kids to do stuff, but the fact that your kid is about to make an imposition on you, one of the most important things you learn as a human being is no matter what, I want my dick sucked. If I wake up and you're sucking it, that's a very different conversation. You don't walk up and inform your dad that he will be picking you up at 3 15 and make sure you aren't late you say hey I got this club I'm really excited for it and he goes oh my gosh that's so exciting oh do I need to kill someone who's currently in the club so you could be there you go no all I need you to do is pick me up at three fifteen would that be okay and he says oh of course it'd be okay sweetums I'll just cancel another podcast

0:21:02 Tom: Is no no yeah

0:21:53 Eli: Recording no problem at all don't you worry it's right it's It's a basic human decency thing. Your parents are not Uber.

0:22:01 Tom: I don't know man like because I had this I had this reaction to it no no I I really don't because like I think that like my reaction to it was like well she's gonna you know I want her to do well on this test I want want her to encourage her to take these classes, these AP classes. Like, I don't want her to ask permission before she wants to do well in school, right?

0:22:03 Eli: You know.

0:22:20 Tom: Like, that feels crazy to me. Like I said, we are constantly giving them the message that we want them to say yes to things. We want themto join things. We wantthem to show up and do stuff. So, like, our side of that is we have to make that possible. If the yes is just like, I'm going to say yes, but you still have to ask, I don'twant to do that, right. That's not cash money to me.

0:22:20 Thomas: No

0:22:38 Eli: You know, it's not.

0:22:38 Thomas: I think I think tom here's what I think I think if this were a social thing then I would kind of be having that reaction of like hey you You can't just assume it was like, hey, you got to take me to my friend Tiffany's house because we're doing it. You know, like that's you can't Just assume that. But with the school thing, I think like the reason I think this might be, Tom, maybe it is kind of the toxic component of it. And it's not the healthy component of It that Eli is kind Of talking about is because I think my reaction would be like, oh, as a practical matter, you should have checked just because like, what if we can't? But I wouldn't have. I don't think I'm just putting myself through the thing. If my kid was like I'm doing a study thing like for school an extra to do better at this thing I don't think I would have the feeling of like how dare you not run that by me or whatever you know I think it would be like I and I'm not judging I'm just saying because you're you're identifying in yourself that this might have come from the you know like toxic parenting place I don't I would've been offended by it I think I just said like oh shoot well next time make sure to check before you sign up just in case like you don't have a ride you know that wouldn't be good

0:23:44 Eli: If I had a doctor's appointment that I needed my wife to drive me back and forth from, it is not about permission to go to the doctor. It is basic decency. Anybody. It is basically decency whenever you're going to impose on someone and you are of the age Which, according to the Mormon Church, which I follow, is eight years old.

0:23:53 Thomas: That's your wife

0:23:54 Tom: Yeah, these are adults. Yeah.

0:24:07 Eli: If you are of the age of reason, when you are imposing on someone for any reason that is a non -emergency, you say, Would it be okay if...

0:24:06 Thomas: Though not

0:24:20 Eli: This is fucking insane. You guys are fucking...

0:24:17 Thomas: For school not for

0:24:20 Tom: No, here's here's the thing. It's like when Haley and I were talking about it, one of the things that we were talking about is like what I want is for the kids to see me as somebody that they can rely on, that will help them get the things in their life done that we've asked them to do. And that does include after school and other activities. We're asking them. We're actively asking them to do that stuff, right? We're saying, I want you to do these things. I will help and support you and do them. And like, they come to me and they see me as reliable. And the solution doesn't necessarily have to be me, right. We also live in a household where I have two other, like Donovan and Finn potentially could help out, right, so I could enlist a total of three drivers right now that could potentially do it. I would just have to kind of quarterback it to make sure that it happens, right。 so she's not necessarily saying you have to do this I think she's saying I need to do this thing that you've asked me to do and this is when it is you got to get me home from this right

0:24:20 Thomas: School no not for school yeah yeah exactly you're part of that yeah yeah yeah or

0:25:17 Tom: So and I want the kids to be able to say yes first without always having to check back and when I was thinking about this one of the things this is just kind of an aside thing but I was think like why do I feel so crazy about like being asked because Because one of the things I was talking to, hey, being told, yeah, being told, well,

0:25:35 Thomas: Being like told right not so much being asked me

0:25:38 Eli: Oh, because your life is an afterlife punishment? And that was one more thing, and nobody could be bothered to just say please to you once in your whole life? In your whole life of afterlife tortures nobody could tell you hey would you please do a thing and then you had to waterboard yourself until you think it's okay on your podcast

0:25:57 Tom: No, no I think there were two things that worried me. Like, you know, one is that I don't always control my schedule entirely, right? Like I do have a day job. So I can't necessarily say, yes, I'm available at 3 o 'clock because my boss could say, hey you got to call me at 3 O 'clock, right. Right. And so that makes me worry about letting people down at that point. Right. Like being pulled in two directions where I can't possibly meet both criteria. And I think that that's reasonable and fair. Right. I think That's a reasonable thing to be concerned about. What I think is less reasonable is the sort of reactionary like, well, kids are supposed to ask stuff. And I thought back to like when I was a kid, I'm curious if this happened when you guys were kids. When I was A kid, if I went to a restaurant and Thomas, this won't matter. You'll have to plug your ears or something. Dunk your head in a,

0:26:15 Eli: That's me everybody

0:26:42 Thomas: Yeah what sorry what they let they don't Tom, they don't let kids in. No, they won't. No, you can't.

0:26:44 Eli: All right uh so a restaurant is like mcdonald's but you're supposed to yeah you're to sit at the tables okay no it's fair okay

0:26:50 Tom: You know,

0:26:50 Thomas: They don't like kids. You can't know. They don't let kids in any of those. You can. You have to be an adult. Yeah.

0:26:52 Tom: That's what they said growing up. You couldn't have them.

0:26:55 Eli: Imagine being sent to your room but it's it's outside the house and there's food there. Shit, this is fucking...

0:27:01 Thomas: So McDonald's.

0:27:03 Eli: Yeah, McDonald's.

0:27:06 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:27:06 Tom: So one of the things that was like a big deal thing with Dan and Lynn growing up is if you went out to do something, like let's say you're going to a restaurant, but it really applied to anything. Well, yeah, but like, but you couldn't just like sit down at the restaurant and order whatever you wanted. You had to ask before you ordered. You had to say, all right, would it be okay if I had this, that, or the other thing? And then Dad or Lynn would say, no, you've got to order off this side of the menu or pick something under this dollar amount or whatever the rule happened to be. But it was just wildly impolite as a kid to sit down at a restaurant and open up a menu and just pick whatever the hell you want off of that menu.

0:27:13 Eli: Lynn got to cavity search your way home.

0:27:50 Tom: Now, that's fucking crazy right like that's crazy this is my whole life

0:27:53 Thomas: How old so even when yeah it's crazy when you're like older older yeah it still now

0:27:58 Eli: This week.

0:28:01 Tom: No like as as an adult

0:28:02 Thomas: No it's crazy when your like teenager I'm saying like when youre a little kid oh okay that's weird no that's weird

0:28:05 Tom: Oh yeah it was definitely as a teenager definitely still as a teacher yeah yeah as an adult I will tell you that if I went out to dinner with dad and Lynn and they were paying let's say there was like a surf and turf and I wanted surf and turf there's no fucking way I would order

0:28:18 Thomas: Yeah oh yeah well I mean this is also a poor people thing like this I I would have the one time we went anywhere for anything we still had to do that just because of whatever we got and any god eli you didn't have to go through any of this or well I

0:28:22 Eli: That's what I was picturing, yeah.

0:28:30 Thomas: Know you had a business problems but like whatever thing we were doing or thing we're at Tom I don't know if you're the same it was just basically the assumption was whatever the cheapest possible thing was was what we were going to get and there wasn't really even a thought that there was any other possibility

0:28:31 Eli: No, it sounds really depressing.

0:28:47 Tom: Yeah no it wasn't exactly I mean like we had a range usually yeah for me it wasn t like we kids have to ask like they can't tell and that is not how we run our household here that's not how we run a household for most things like because we're trying to encourage we're actively trying to encourage something entirely different but it's one of those moments where I'm like I was annoyed because I was like well why doesn't she just take the fucking activity bus like why does she need and like here's the thing the activity bus sucks that's why the activity boss sucks it's a route that's probably going to take her an hour hour and a half to get home when the school is 10 minutes from the

0:28:49 Thomas: Than that that was

0:29:28 Tom: House so like that would suck you know because there's less buses and they drive around there's les routes for the activity bus and of course

0:29:33 Eli: Well, and they've got that chauffeur who comes whenever they tell. They just click their fingers and chauffeur Daddy Tom will just show up with the... Do you do the little water bottles in the back? I always like when they do that. Yeah. Tell them the tips go to charity too. Sometimes that helps.

0:29:44 Tom: I do otherwise they I don't want them to be parched no no but I look here's the thing if it's a social thing eli they ask and never tell but if it'S a school thing she's gonna sign up for organizations organizations and clubs and stuff next year. And we've been encouraging it. And I think like if you encourage somebody to do something, the responsibility on the other side of that encouragement is to figure out how you're going to get them back and forth. But like, I also think that I have some shit like I was thinking about it, like growing up with a single parent where my dad got home at six o 'clock. Like if I wanted to sign up for something, it was my job to figure out how to get home from it. Right. Like dad was not going to figure that out for me.

0:30:26 Eli: I think I might know the missing piece of the puzzle here, Tom. Let me run this by you. Do your kids know how bad your life is?

0:30:34 Tom: My life is isn't all that bad.

0:30:35 Eli: Because if they don't, I can imagine, because like my dad, there was a part of my dad's life, which was bad. But for the most part, my dad was pretty sweet. He was the owner of the business. He had a job. I knew when he worked. I know when he didn't work, but his life was pretty chill and there were times where his life was bad where I was like oh all right my dad's life is bad right now I imagine that if they think they have a normal dad who sleeps a lazy lackadaisical four hours a night they might be like all right chubbs time to pick me up chop chop but I feel like if they knew you were in a constant state of physical and psychological anguish they might be willing to take said activity bus?

0:31:14 Thomas: Jesus

0:31:11 Tom: I'm not. Yeah, I don't know, man. Like, I don't think that the way that I grew up was good, right? Like, I don'T think like, figure it out yourself. If you can't figure it, you can'T do it. I think like what that resulted in is I didn't get to have a lot of experiences that I wanted to have.

0:31:30 Tom: And that in many ways were normative experiences, right, like the normal things that made a normal childhood were things that very often I didn'T have. Like I'll tell you one other quick story that I was thinking about with this like I remember when I got a job like an after school job at like burger king or whatever not the car wash job I told my dad about it first question was like well how are you gonna get there and it was like four miles from the house and I was I looked at him and I was like what can you drive me and he's like I don't know if I could drive you or not you got to figure that out because he just wasn't going to commit to it and I didn't ask him so like that did not impress him much and so his answer ended up being no I got a ride and I scheduled all of my shifts with my best friend and we were sort of like you guys have to you know schedule us up together and then when we got fired from that job I had to go get another job with my friend because he's the one who had a car oh yeah I think I I told the Burger King story before I think right well I got fired from Burger King oh oh this is a funny story so I worked at this Burger King I think it is

0:32:09 Thomas: Christ

0:32:23 Eli: Like stepbrothers, you were standing behind him and then...

0:32:24 Thomas: Wait you did you both get fired together like from shenanigans oh man I can't remember

0:32:30 Eli: I don't think so. No. Wait, Tom. Do you want to take a second and tell the story in your head first?

0:32:37 Thomas: Is it funny take him tell you what we'll take a commercial break while Tom reviews is this actually funny or is it traumatic we'll be right

0:32:51 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:32:53 Eli: And we're back. It wasn't a funny story, everybody.

0:32:54 Thomas: Back Tom yeah

0:32:57 Tom: I don't know all right so me and my buddy Rick worked at this Burger King for like three years

0:33:00 Eli: It's the one who shot your eye out.

0:33:00 Tom: And I yeah yeah I loved this job it was great like I had all of my friends worked there we all had a great time like it was there's a lot of weird shit that happened there because it was kind of nobody like that was over the age of 25 that was in charge of anything ever there so it was a bunch of teenagers and 20 somethings being in charge of a bunch of teenagers so it's fucking shenanigans constantly but I dated this girl in fact I told a story about in our virginity episode I dated a girl whose best friend was the manager at Burger King one of the managers at Burger King and when I dumped that girl because I didn't want to have sex with her her best friend fired me and my buddy

0:33:03 Thomas: Already a bad start wow

0:33:20 Eli: As God intended.

0:33:39 Thomas: Oh I don't remember that

0:33:42 Eli: I don't remember this. I love the idea of Rick being like I'll fuck her what's the heck come on I was getting nuggets once a day just

0:33:42 Thomas: Detail holy shit yeah me too what the hell was he like come on dude just

0:33:45 Tom: Yeah yeah I

0:33:54 Eli: Like hey we hang out a lot is it because you need to picture me because you can picture me I'll hang out I'll make loud noises from the end yeah that's

0:33:54 Tom: Was burger

0:33:58 Thomas: Fucking I'll shoot your other fucking eye out if you don't fuck this

0:34:05 Tom: King yeah so her best friend was the manager so when I dumped her her best friend found an excuse and fired the both of us so we like walked into work and we had like our uniforms to get changed and they were like nope you don't work here anymore I was like what that sucks so yeah she fired us for for that so I don't know I thought it was a funny story right yeah it's fucking Burger King man I was upset at the time because like my friends worked there but then I just got a different job and made different friends like life fucking goes on it's not the end of the world but the point of the story though is like my dad's response to a normal thing like hey I'm gonna get an after-school job was not well here are the ways I can help right it was just like we'll figure that

0:34:12 Thomas: Girl Wow Jesus turn in your paper crown and your spatula and that's a

0:34:44 Tom: Shit out on your own and everything was figure that shit on your on but he didn't care if I had a job or not that was the thing I wanted the after-school job and then I think is I then I I think as the was the sticking point when I was thinking about this is like my dad wasn't worried about the things that like I wanted or made me happy right like those were up to me to figure out my dad was worried about me doing well in school and like staying out of trouble so he had his benchmarks right as long as those benchmarks were hit he was like all right the rest of it is for you to figure it out if you want a job that's I don't care if you have a job or don't have a job like if you wanna hang out with friends like that's you fucking figure out how to hang out your friends like I'm not gonna go out of my way or extend my day to go do something just because you want

0:34:47 Thomas: Job wow oh okay okay

0:35:27 Eli: Funny

0:35:27 Tom: It and so I have this like embedded idea that like well you know if the kids want something it's up to them to figure that out but I also don't believe that I don't act on that and that's not the house I want to run but I still have that reactivity to it does that make sense like there's a reactivity that's built in because like that's the way you're raised and like still I'll sit down at a restaurant and like with kids like Like, I don't care about adults at all, but like with kids, it's like, aren't you going to ask? Aren't you gonna ask? You're just going to fucking order, like, whatever?

0:35:43 Eli: Yeah no because you're right yeah

0:35:54 Thomas: Have that a little bit I have had a little little bit the kids just assume

0:35:59 Eli: My thing with kids and ordering food at a restaurant and this is picky for me and again I I was allowed to order whatever I want because I was a la -di -da fancy boy my thing with kids at a restaurant I'll notice this with like friends kids because obviously not my fucking kid the lunchbacks we packed with the three foods my son decides to eat is what he will be eating at any he could be like surfing son you could order the waiter's head on a platter and I will saw it while his parents watch I would love that shit please but like sometimes we'll go out to eat with our friend's kids and they'll order some shit. And I see parents who are good parents like you guys that are like, all right, my kid gets to order whatever they want. And I'm like, you're not gonna eat that fucking shit. I'm like this is a kid. This kid's not gonna eat fucking shit about dick. Everyone else at the table is ordering chicken fingers. And then this is what happens every time. Tell me if I'm wrong. Everyone on the table go, I want chicken fingers, can I get the pizza, can I get the cheeseburger? And then one kid goes, I'll have the filet of soul.

0:36:59 Eli: And the the parents go oh I don't know little jimmy you sure it's um it's it's market prices and the last time you had fish you stood on a chair and vomited and said I hate fish I hate it so much I never want this flavor to touch my lips again and the kid turns bright purple and he goes I want the fish and these fucking pussy ass parents go okay we'll have the filet of soul The waiter's like, what do you want for your two sides? And they're like, my ribs. And they are like, okay. You don't know what the fuck you just ordered. And they bring the kid the fish. And the kid looks at it like he ordered the cheeseburger.

0:37:41 Eli: Right? They bring it over and he's like. Oh, this one has plate on it.

0:37:50 Tom: None of my family, I can't relate to that at all. Like, Donovan and Azen are very much like Max, right? So there's a very limited, we've talked about that. Very limited repertoire of foods that they're going to eat. But like when Haley and I were talking about this too, and I was trying to figure out like why I felt so fucking weird about it. What she said is like, well, when I was growing up, my parents just didn't take me to a restaurant if they couldn't afford the items on the restaurant. But like, they didn't make me feel like shit because I couldn't have the things that like I actually wanted, but I got to read them and pine over them. Like that's not an awesome thing to do. And I thought like, yeah, wait, wait, that's actually not an awesome thing to do. Like just go to a restaurant where you can afford the food if the money is the constraint and the money was the constraint growing up. Right. So, but I also think to, to a larger degree, the constraint was making sure the kids knew their place, making sure that kids were obedient, making sure their kids were polite. And so I grew up with this idea that like, it was genuinely that like a lack of politeness or a lack of obedience is I'm viscerally opposed to it even though like I I don't actually think the things that I'm thinking of as polite are polite I think they're more controlling than they are polite right

0:38:29 Thomas: Hmm hmm man yeah I'm just curious how the first X years of being a parent didn't because like I have all that Tom but then I'm in my My household is like exposure therapy done by the conservatives who think that trigger warnings don't work. And you ought to just like if you're afraid of heights, you oughtto throw someone from a building or something. It's like my house is like that for kids that don't listen to what the fuck you say ever. And there's like I'm already I'm it's already got like the thought of my kids listening to anything I say is so alien to me. I can't even, like, I wouldn't, I wish, I WISH I still felt a pang of like, how dare you, sir? How dare you child? Yeah. They don't, they don't fucking listen at all. Yeah. It's unbelievable. So that, so you didn't, I'm just curious, like how this worked for X years up to now, you know, was there any, yeah. Is it different? Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Like, is it, was it different with your own kids and

0:39:18 Eli: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember the last time you cared how your kids treated you? God, what a vintage feeling.

0:39:58 Eli: Well, no, Tom raised his kids and then he got gift kids. And he's doing it, he did it his way with Donovan and Finn. Or the other ones.

0:40:08 Tom: For the longest time I just had finn so like when you just have one kid

0:40:11 Thomas: We've all said together one kid is not really being a parent we've all yeah there's not actually being a

0:40:16 Tom: It's so easy easy it it's an entire so when finn was little it was an entirely different experience because it's just one kid and finn by nature is a pretty agreeable kid so one I thought I was fucking killing it as a parent because I had one kid who was by nature agreeable right so I'm like this is easy so there just wasn't a lot of conflict like that there just genuinely was not anything remarkable like that then I had amon and then like amon was just the baby when hailey and I I got together. It was two or three when Haley and I got together. And then then we all of a sudden have four kids. Right. But like they were spread out in ages at that point from like three to eleven or twelve. At that point, you're just trying to get through the day we had. I don't know. It just we didn't have conflict like that. We didn't have because like no one's doing after school activities you don't control. I guess that's the thing. I guess that the thing, Thomas, is like for me, when the kids are little you're controlling all of their time but now that they're older they're controlling their time with the ways that they control their time impacts my expectations and that is I think I think that's the point that feels different to me when the kids were littler a lot of things were were because because everything is my decision ultimately you know it felt different it just felt different

0:40:16 Eli: No, no. You just got a little roommate who rocks.

0:41:05 Thomas: Apparent yeah all

0:41:39 Eli: Yeah, I mean, look, I understand the tension of politeness. I insist on politeness for Max in a way that might be antiquated. So like he'll ask for more lunch and I'll say, can you say please? What do you say? And I'll saying more teeth and crackers, please. There's never a question about whether or not he's getting more lunch. It's not about whether ou not he deserves more lunch, he needs to learn this set of human behaviors because politeness is what keeps, it's what keeps you from murdering, right? Right. The fact you need to constantly. Can you imagine not being forced by politeness to interact politely with everybody? I would walk up, fire a gun into the first person at the register. And then when the second person stepped up, I'd be like, I'll have a latte. Maybe it's just me, but I.

0:42:09 Tom: So well no yeah I so I guess here's here's where I think that there's no this is interesting to think about because like I'm super big on politeness with other people right and like we talked about like the kids I would not be cool with I need you to drive me to jill's house at at three o 'clock. I need to be asked differently. Right. I, I need to be ask differently. Yeah.

0:42:20 Thomas: Right well this is you Eli this is you yeah it's you okay that was what I was going to ask before is like as long as we're all agreed on that I think we're all

0:42:50 Tom: But if it's a school thing,

0:42:51 Eli: Thomas at Waterport himself. Yeah. No, we want them to have social activities.

0:42:53 Tom: I, yeah, I, but like, if it a school, I do, I feel differently about it. I just feel like, okay, like I would be a hypocrite. If I said, I need you to say yes to experiences, guys, I'm gonna lecture you about it and I need ya to join clubs and activities because they're good and edifying. And I needya to do things with your body and move your body every day, because you're gonna regret not doing it. If you get older and I'm I'm going to tell you about the value of all of these things until I'm blue in the face. But then also, I need you to double check with me before you actually say yes to any of this stuff, because what if it's inconvenient for me?

0:43:25 Eli: So that's not what politeness is. Politeness is not really checking or asking. Asking it's a weird social dance you do to prove that you're superior to the people you meet right when I get into a car and I say how's your afternoon going oh my gosh this weather I don't give a fuck how his afternoon is going I could go take me to the airport but you're not supposed to do that that's not kind what you're supposed to do is lie jesus

0:43:34 Thomas: Okay what eli

0:43:57 Ad: [Ad break 4 — ad music]

0:43:59 Tom: So I guess the distinction for me, and I think that this is like where I've kind of settled, is if Haley were not a polite person, she and I would not be together. Like she is polite. She says, please. She said, thank you. She, I, so many, you know, my

0:44:11 Thomas: Gotta be polite she's got been monogamous so many demands yeah

0:44:15 Eli: Not in her inbox she doesn't

0:44:18 Tom: Friends, like I wouldn't be, I would be mortified to be friends with people that I didn't think had these same standards for, for basic social decency. You are actually wildly polite,

0:44:25 Eli: That's why Tom loves me so much. I'm so polite. I am a wildly polite person. Yeah.

0:44:29 Tom: Eli. You are wildly polite. Yeah. So we share that value.

0:44:30 Thomas: Eli is really polite but it is it is a front like it is he does have to do that because he will shoot somebody

0:44:37 Eli: Doesn't matter. What matters is that I do it.

0:44:38 Thomas: Yeah no it doesn't matter yeah exactly no I agree

0:44:40 Tom: I do. I think that the one relationship that's different is from your kids to your parents, because you have told them, Hey, you can rely on me differently than everybody else. Else and I had you on purpose and I have a responsibility. Nobody else has a responsibility to me, right? Even Haley, she doesn't have a response ability to me. Like that is a, that is an agreement that we have, but she's not responsible for me. Nobody else in the world is responsible for мне. The only time that relationship exists is with parents to children. So for me, I think that that thinking about it that way, it does actually change the nature of the relationship. Like it's not an ask. I don't think, you know, it's like, all right, it's my responsibility as a parent to do this stuff or to figure it out because it's a different relationship than everything else. Does that make sense?

0:45:30 Thomas: It does just for school stuff though I'm I or anything that's like an obligation thing I think were on the same page but I don't know. Cause like, I think when it comes to, well, maybe not Eli, when it comes to school stuff, I, my kids, if they're like, oh, I have a test or, oh I have a something, whatever it is. Oh, we have to go to the thing. That's to me, that's like our obligation, especially when they're little. Maybe, I mean, again, it could be different. I, you know, I don'T know if it changes when they'RE like teenagers, but school is like, Oh, that'S one of the things that I have to do. Like we'RE required, you KNOW, they GOT to have clothes, they got to eat, they they got to go to school. Like it was like the law, you know? And so if it's like a school related thing, I'd have no problem with them being like, you have to take me to the bot. Like I have no problems with it. It wouldn't. Oh, sports. So, so that's so funny that that you think that would be like, just because of our different backgrounds. Yeah, no, that well, but I'm, that's So funny to me. And I think anyone who, well, I won't, I want to universalize, but there's a mindset that you might have as somebody who played sports that like, Like, that's even more of an opportunity. That's like, you're in trouble if you don't, if your coach told you to be somewhere and you weren't there, there's no chance that I would have the kids ask me. It would be like, if they were trying to sign up for a sport, well, first off, like in what way? Like if they needed a ride, you are saying? That would be cool. I mean, I feel like they would probably ask us, but that would be, yeah, I don't think I would be. Yeah. Imagine they said I joined. Yeah. That'd be cool, I think the only, again, I I think, I think the, I think the only thing that I'm, as I'm running through that, I don't actually think I would feel, and I'm not saying I never feel this. I'm like, I'm just not, I do feel this with certain things, that pang of like, Hey, I would have gotten really fucking yelled at for that, you know, like as a kid, but this particular thing, that scenario, all that would come up for me would be like, hey, you better check next time. Cause if you sign up for something and you don't have a ride, like what if we had a thing we We can't get out of, you know, but it wouldn't be like you've insulted me in any way. It wouldn't it wouldn'T feel like that for me. It would feel like, hey, practically speaking, make sure next time, you

0:46:13 Tom: What about if it's sports after school activities? It's not technically required.

0:46:21 Eli: Thomas asks them, please, please do this for me.

0:46:43 Tom: Would they have to ask to join the sport?

0:46:50 Tom: Like if a kid came home from school and said, I joined the basketball team, but let's imagine that they didn't. Let's imagine that they didn'T. Like, yeah, let's imagine they didnT. I joined the basketball team, Dad, and so they have games every Thursday. We're going to have to be there at 7 o 'clock.

0:46:56 Eli: Thomas just got caught up in the fantasy for a second. I love you. I'm still here. I'm grateful. I used a magic spell to silence Remy.

0:47:46 Thomas: Know, that you that you have this. Yeah, I don't think I would have that.

0:47:49 Eli: Well, see, and my thing is, and I'm going to come at this from a totally different angle. I think asking has nothing to do with whether or not the thing is going to happen. If my kid goes, Dad, tennis, 3 o 'clock, it's happening, right? If my kids goes, Papa, I would so ever like to join the tennis team, would you mind? He's getting to do tennis. That's not how permission works and things work in my house. What he does need to learn is that if you talk nice, your whole life is 10 ,000 times easier. Jail is full of people whose parents didn't go, can you say please?

0:48:25 Tom: Yeah. Look, the thing is, like, I don't disagree with that. Like I think that there's an enormous, enormous amount of value in politeness for so many reasons and learning how to do that, learning howto do all of that social stuff. It gets, you get ahead so much further in all areas of your, all areas of your life but I guess like I'm thinking about it and I'm like there's no world where I think like I can tell the kids the things that I've told them about the value of joining things and then make them do this dance that they may not understand as a dance but then why do we have to do it right if the answer is a default this feels crazy if the ant but they practice in so so many other ways, right? They practice. I also

0:48:59 Eli: But then you just explain that it's a dance. You say, hey, because you got to practice. You got to practise the dance. Not enough. Not enough? It gets through. It gets true for me sometimes. You've been standing at a counter, and the 14th time someone gives you like a, I don't know, face, and you've been like, like, uh -oh, I didn't practice enough. You gotta have constant vigilance against the things you think coming out of your mouth.

0:49:05 Thomas: Yeah. Bye.

0:49:33 Tom: Think too, that like growing up with the dad that I have, who was a single parent and who was just never available. Like my dad never drove me to a thing. I just wasn't the idea of like parents driving you around as a default way for you to get places is an experience. I literally can't relate to at all. Like I have no connection to that, where it's like, oh, well, my parent will pick me up from school if I'm sick, or my parent will take me to work, or take me up to sports practice. I don't have any experience that analogs to that. So it feels like I shouldn't have to do that. But I look back on it, I'm like, well, that's fucking crazy. That's not normal. That weird.

0:50:17 Clip: DEAR OLD DAD

0:50:24 Eli: All right, gentlemen, before we go, how do you eat a virtual elephant? One megabyte at a time. Tom, your youth was very offensive.

0:51:32 Thomas: I got it. Now.

0:51:43 Eli: Zoran, blah, blah. Fish!

0:51:37 Tom: Hey, Dave, stop adding fire to it you can't fight fire with fighter that's just an expression this is a longer way to say dear old dads