DOD271: Hell in a Handbasket, I Say!

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that wants to know, why are you mad at me? I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:38 Eli: Hello.

0:00:34 Thomas: Well, I like that you're teasing the topic that we might get to. Yeah.

0:00:42 Tom: That we may cover. Look, here's the thing. I write two little intros on this piece of paper, and I'm going to use them, God damn it. That's it. That's It. It works

0:00:48 Eli: That's right. Maybe we're mad at you because you're gay.

0:00:54 Tom: In so many different dimensions. It's fine.

0:00:56 Eli: I had a student come out to his parents this year and his parents were cool and it made me so happy.

0:01:02 Eli: He was like, oh, tough weekend coming ahead. And I was like oh yeah, what's up? Partying too hard? And he was like I'm coming out to my parents and they're really religious Catholics. And I was like, ah, why? I hope they don't deserve to die.

0:01:11 Thomas: That's nice. Ooh. Yeah, what do you even say? Shit. Oh boy.

0:01:24 Tom: But they were fine with it

0:01:24 Eli: But they were, they were awesome. Apparently they were like, cool.

0:01:28 Thomas: I like the stories you hear where the parents were like, yeah, man. Like, oh, they have to pretend. Oh yeah.

0:01:31 Tom: We fucking know I love that like Eli's theater student is surprising anybody

0:01:39 Eli: Yeah. Yeah, to be fair, to be there. Have you seen the video of the little, he's got the little like bangs over his eyes and he's telling his big southern mom and she's like honey you're fine like he fell and she's convincing him he's not hurt bad it's the best but gentlemen

0:01:58 Thomas: Wow. That's awesome. Well, that's because people think it's morally wrong.

0:02:04 Eli: That's because people think it's morally wrong and we're going to get to those moral wrongs in just a little bit but before we do we need to tell people about the greatest moral wrong of all something that 100 percent of Americans can agree sends you straight to hell I'm talking about listening to auto ads that's right If you've ever heard an auto-ad, you'll never live in Christ's grace. But you can be saved by accepting Jesus into your heart through faith and faith alone. Or by heading over to Patreon.com forward slash. I like the idea that there's a new listener who thinks I'm a conservative Christian and just turned off the podcast. But just in case you're not that person, you can head to Patreon dot com forward slash dear old dads. We get a commercial free version of every single show. Plus a little parenting story at the end. Tom taught us how to write an essay last week. And next week, he's going to teach us how to tie a hitch knot. You can get all of it over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dads.

0:02:33 Tom: Gotta learn how to tie a hitch

0:02:56 Thomas: Life lessons with Tom.

0:02:58 Eli: Rip into it. Yeah.

0:02:59 Tom: Knot

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0:03:06 Tom: All right, we've got some more of this pew research study on uh what's what's morally wrong here to cover

0:03:12 Eli: And we're going to start with a bummer. We led up to this one last week, but we didn't actually get to it. 23 % of Americans, that would be less than half of the people who think it is wrong

0:03:22 Thomas: I want to just before we do that to refresh people to drumroll into it, just quickly review the numbers. Having an affair, 90 percent. Viewing pornography, pornography 52% having abortion, 47% homosexuality, 39% ending your life with the help of doctor, 35% death penalty, 34% gambling, 29%. And that leads us to the first thing that anyone should even think is wrong.

0:03:47 Thomas: Is that right? Hold on. I'm looking back at it. Yeah, that's the, uh, no, I guess death penalty. Sorry. The second thing anyone should even give a shit about on this list, drum roll, we're finally there.

0:03:53 Eli: Using marijuana. No. Spanking. Spanking children.

0:04:02 Thomas: Spanking your children. 23%. Only 23%.

0:04:04 Tom: Uh so beating people that are smaller than you and look how many people are like that's not a moral issue

0:04:12 Thomas: Not a moral issue.

0:04:14 Eli: Not a moral issue.

0:04:14 Thomas: That's between that adult and that thing that can't reason yet. That's just between them.

0:04:20 Eli: More people think it's not a moral issue to spank children than think the death penalty is not a moral issue. I don't really see how that's here or there. Yeah.

0:04:26 Tom: 39 man are like like I don't know I

0:04:28 Thomas: Oh, boy. We haven't been reviewing that. 36 % think it's morally acceptable. We haven't even looked at that. That's an interesting split. Because the gambling one, that was just before it. And it was 29 % think morally wrong, only 20 % thought it was morally acceptable, but 50 % were like, why are they fucking asking me about that? That's not a moral issue, which I think is pretty appropriate.

0:04:49 Thomas: Like that's probably what I would answer now that I think about it. But this one, nope, 36%. It has a higher, like people are more proactively like, well, no, that's, yeah, that's good.

0:04:56 Eli: That's good. That is a good thing to do. Yeah, but again, now there is an advantage to that 36% because you can actively change all of those people's minds by beating them up. They've told you.

0:04:58 Tom: Gotta whack

0:05:05 Thomas: By applying the death penalty? Oh, yeah.

0:05:08 Eli: They told you, hey, if you disagree with me kick the shit out of me because that's an awesome not it's not such a good way to learn it works on children works on infants it's

0:05:19 Thomas: If it works on children, what's their defense? What are they going to say? Well, no, don't do it on me. I can think for myself. Wait. Yeah. Yeah.

0:05:22 Eli: Gonna be amazing for adults I stopped

0:05:28 Tom: Yes maybe you have to be in a position of authority over that person so we should beat our employees. Like, I think that's what we should. Yeah, like, yeah, right, yeah.

0:05:34 Eli: Learning yes tom honestly if you could do a quick survey around the break room and just be like all right everybody you're shirtless by the way when you're doing this and you have a tie tied around your forehead and you're cracking your knuckles and you're like anybody HERE THINK it's okay to hit your kids asking for a friend the friend is my 25 year old

0:05:55 Thomas: He's like, I've got the keys to the car wash. There's nobody there. It's just going to be you and me.

0:05:56 Tom: Here we go. God.

0:05:58 Eli: Testosterone nobody there old scrubbing bubble down the street has let me have the place for the they said they don't rent out for birthday parties but everyone's got a number laughing

0:06:11 Tom: That's fucking unbelievable.

0:06:11 Thomas: It's so bad only 23 percent

0:06:14 Tom: I guess, like I wonder, because I don't think that many people actually spanked her there because I don't think 77 percent of people are spanking their kids are they just like well because 23 think it's morally wrong right to spank your kids so 77 of people would

0:06:23 Thomas: No no no well wait where are you getting 77 oh yeah yeah but the but the 39 said it's not a moral oh shit yeah wait what 39 say it's a moral issue what are they saying shit now oh crap I don't know what that now I'm even more shattered that's like saying it's not a moral if I kill this guy over here

0:06:37 Tom: Be what yeah that I don't even understand that like that is just like

0:06:45 Thomas: That's that's not that's worse hold on that's worse. I'd rather you think you had the right to do it than think.

0:06:47 Tom: Hitting children is probably not even a thing for me to think

0:06:47 Eli: Laughing why are we bringing good guy bad guy into this serial rape I'm just I

0:06:57 Thomas: Yeah. Shit. There's a way it's there's a weight in which that's almost more psychopathy. Like you're like, well, no, I'd rather you. Think it was good. Oh yeah. Oh God. I hope or something. No, that's still bad. I don't even know what I'm hoping for in that situation. Okay.

0:07:05 Eli: Think those people think it's functional. I think that those people are like, it's not a moral issue because it's just what one needs to do to train up a child. Yeah. Right.

0:07:17 Tom: About jesus yeah because like I think if I thought it was functional and not harmful then I would be like yeah it's a moral thing to do because like you gets how you get people to do the things and it's fine

0:07:29 Thomas: Maybe the way we can think of it is if, If someone asked you, yeah, if someone asked you, is it like moral issue to give your kids timeouts or something? You'd be like, well, not really, I guess. Maybe that's like, I'm trying to get into their mind where they think it's just discipline. It's like grounding your kid. Would you think it was like, yeah. Do you think that's a moral, not real? I think it wasn't like not really a moral issue. It's just a practical issue of how you're raising your kids. Maybe. I don't know. I'm just trying to, yeah

0:07:31 Tom: I don't even understand

0:07:43 Eli: It's just a thing one must do. Yeah, it's discipline.

0:07:53 Eli: Not supposed to do timeouts now either. That's going to be our heading.

0:07:55 Thomas: They're supposed to be short, very short was the last thing I heard on it. Like they're, they're suppose to be way shorter than you would think.

0:08:00 Eli: I empathize tremendously with the generation that hit their kids and now don't want to admit that they hit theirkids because I'm learning that timeouts are bad. I've never done timeouts. I didn't get to enjoy a timeout before. Or someone told me not to do them, which sucked because I would love to fucking send him to a timeout sometimes. But I do that obfuscation in my brain that I hear them doing about hitting where I'm like, yeah, but you know, I got put in timeout and I'm fine. Turned out okay. I turned out good.

0:08:28 Tom: This spanking has been very widely

0:08:42 Thomas: I've I heard the timeouts are bad thing years ago but I also have heard since then I don't think people agree on that I think that's not a consensus yet maybe it will be yeah it's just bad

0:08:42 Tom: Studied and it's like yeah That's directly harmful. Yeah.

0:08:45 Eli: Doctors always get so excited when they finally locked in on something. They were like, COVID shot fucking works. And they were like no, no, spanking's bad.

0:08:53 Tom: Yeah. And you need more testosterone.

0:08:53 Thomas: The thing I heard is

0:08:56 Eli: You need more testosterone. Testosterone oh

0:08:56 Thomas: That timeouts shouldn't be any more than a minute for each year they are like that's like the max so it's like really fast

0:09:01 Tom: That's why, yeah.

0:09:02 Eli: God that sounds amazing five I was gonna say one

0:09:04 Thomas: What oh for for you yeah yeah do you eventually get to earn them like oh dude give me a timeout

0:09:05 Tom: I want a 48 -minute timeout. I want one right now.

0:09:12 Eli: I could watch a whole prestige drama in the time of my time out that sounds great if I skip

0:09:14 Thomas: Holy shit yeah isn't that funny that everything that's punishment like bath going to bed now like everything we have to force our kids to do is just like dear god let us do it you know like it's ah ah my favorite thing is when I have to tell my kids like no you don't get your dessert until you eat all of your checks notes pizza hey

0:09:25 Eli: Through the

0:09:26 Tom: I'll take it. I'll tak it. Yeah. You

0:09:36 Eli: Sex

0:09:37 Thomas: Eat your first dessert before you get your second dessert

0:09:40 Eli: Eat the most delicious thing yeah

0:09:42 Tom: Can't have this sweet junk food until after you've had your savory junk food.

0:09:43 Thomas: Yeah honestly and here's the thing honestly that was my knee -jerk reaction where I would just like oh no you can't have until you eat your dinner and then I'd look at dinner and be like oh now I've learned and so I go when they ask like well can I have a treat I look at what the fuck they were eating for dinner if they're eating pizza I'm like yes like I don't even care you don't have to pizza is like one of of the least healthy things that there is like fine if it was like ice cream or pizza I'm pretty sure ice cream's better yep

0:10:08 Eli: Makes

0:10:09 Tom: Oh, I got to tell you a funny ice cream story real quick. I think I've told you before, I have a hard time with ice cream. If there's ice cream in the house, I'll eat the whole container of ice cream because I'm convinced that a pint is a serving. So Haagen -Dazs, I found out, Haagen Dazs sells...

0:10:21 Thomas: Well it is yeah oh

0:10:24 Eli: A testosterone flavor flavor. Yeah.

0:10:26 Tom: I ate a hundred of them! HaagenDaz sells a single serving, little miniature pint -shaped. So I was ordering groceries, and I saw those, and they're like 220 calories, and I ordered some of them. Oh my god this fucking thing shows up and

0:10:31 Thomas: Like the mini ones yeah yeah I've seen that you got 50 of them he ordered 400 of them it's like it's working I just eat until I die of these yeah

0:10:50 Tom: It's like it's one of those moments where you're like oh that's a serving size and you're Like it's this is a fucking day yeah I was like this is fucking adorable and it actually makes me want to eat ice cream less because

0:10:54 Thomas: Yeah well I'm headed for heart surgery soon yeah yeah

0:11:05 Tom: I will hold myself to I'm only going to eat one but now I'm like well now it doesn't even feel like a big splurgy treat Yeah,

0:11:10 Eli: I'm going to eat two bites of ice cream and then

0:11:11 Thomas: Yeah that's just like you're sampling it to see if you like the flavor

0:11:15 Tom: It's just like, hey, do you want just foreplay? No. What are you talking about? I want just for play.

0:11:18 Thomas: That's yeah yeah a gentle rub atop your pants and no more that's nothing

0:11:25 Tom: I'm a grown up. God damn it.

0:11:25 Thomas: Yeah I'm not even fucking getting out of bed for that or in bed I'm getting not getting in bed for that.

0:11:31 Eli: I'm fucking this pint of ice cream.

0:11:33 Thomas: Yeah. I've mixed my metaphors. One way or the other, I'm going to sleep. That's all I'm saying. I want to go to bed.

0:11:38 Eli: One way or another, no one's eating this tonight.

0:11:42 Tom: This using

0:11:44 Thomas: So anyways, 23 % of people, only 23%. Oh boy. I think it's morally wrong to spank your kids. Cool.

0:11:53 Tom: Marijuana same number 23 but 52 are like that's nothing why are you saying these words

0:12:00 Thomas: Yeah, at least there's that. It's interesting. Now I'm looking at that not a moral issue thing all differently now. When not a morale issue, when it comes to suspending your kids that's like oh my god you're a psychopath like I'm worried when it's marijuana I'm like yeah you're right fucking right it's not a moral issue fuck off you know what I mean like it's it's crazy how different that answer feels depending on the thing that's

0:12:19 Tom: I guess I would say it's morally acceptable I don't really understand the distinction between something being morally acceptable and not being a moral issue really like it's like everything it's not a moral is then morally acceptable

0:12:30 Thomas: A good point that's a good I'm trying to think what is the difference I think the difference is you know that it's um like a weighty decision that people will disagree with maybe but you're just on the other side of it or something

0:12:40 Tom: I think it's just a way to be like that's a stupid question why are you asking me that question yeah

0:12:43 Thomas: Well having having said that though I actually think if someone asks is homosexuality whatever I think it's better to say that's not a moral issue than to say it's morally acceptable yeah

0:12:54 Tom: Because it supposes that it sort of like says yeah this is a legitimate moral question right

0:12:58 Thomas: Right right because if you're like oh I'm okay I think it's acceptable that you exist just like no I don't fucking you shouldn't even be saying that that's that you know what I mean whereas to your point Tom I'm trying to think what's the thing that you should say morally acceptable versus not a moral issue shit I don's know morally acceptable now I don' know god damn it these polls no

0:13:19 Eli: Think you'd say like giving your money to charity. Right.

0:13:23 Thomas: Because you're not saying like like morally like laudatory or whatever. You're not, it's just, you're saying like acceptable, right? So like, I think maybe I would do viewing pornography. I might say morally acceptable rather than not. Man, I don't know. Yeah.

0:13:29 Eli: It's not morally wrong and it's not not a moral issue. It is a moral issue

0:13:41 Thomas: What would you gentlemen, if you're looking at this list, what is something you would say morally accessible versus not a moral issue? I think maybe the ending your life, maybe the patient ending their life. Cause I do think that's like a moral decision. Like it's a weighty kind of decision. If you're ending your Life, you gotta I consider like you are, you know, you have the right to, I think, but you're,

0:13:46 Eli: Homosexuality

0:13:57 Tom: It's yeah okay all right I think I got it like I think I think something is morally acceptable I think for me I would draw the distinction if the question itself requires me to think about the impact on other people.

0:14:10 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. I like that. Yeah.

0:14:10 Tom: So like, for example, patient ending their life with the help of a doctor, I have to consider that that, and the doctor, right? And the doctor themselves too, right, the whole system. So there's a whole bunch of people. Just pet

0:14:15 Thomas: Your family. And so that was kind of what I was getting at. Okay. Oh, and the doctor, that's a good point. Yeah, yeah! Good point.

0:14:22 Eli: My dentist was such a whiner yeah

0:14:24 Thomas: When I told him to end my life after molesting me, I even told him he could molest me first. Like, whatever, I'm dying. Who cares? Yeah. Yeah!

0:14:31 Tom: My head a little, it's fine. So yeah, so I think maybe Maybe that's the right way to think about it.

0:14:36 Thomas: No, I like that. I think that's where I was giving too, Tom. I liked that. So in that case, I think the doctor one, I would, I could see if someone answered the death penalty, I I could understand it. Yeah. If they were like, Hey, it's morally acceptable in these circumstances or something. I at least could see that not. Yeah, exactly.

0:14:44 Tom: The death penalty for sure. Yeah, I think it's insane to be like, that death penalty is not a moral issue. Like what? That's, what do you, do you know what these words mean? Go get a pretzel.

0:14:53 Eli: None of my

0:14:54 Thomas: That are you a Nazi? Yeah. Okay. Himmler. Like, yeah. Yeah. It's like, you don't even view them as humans. Like you're just not a moral issue.

0:15:03 Eli: Business sometimes you gotta care about

0:15:03 Thomas: It's just fucking taking out the garbage. That's then you're worse than then you were a psychopath. I think.

0:15:06 Eli: Okay can I be the marijuana prude

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0:15:09 Eli: Though because I know whenever if you were to ask me in a vacuum knowing what I know about marijuana users if you were like hey hey, should someone ever use marijuana on a regular basis? I'd be like, how's the rest of their life going?

0:15:09 Thomas: Ooh. Yeah.

0:15:27 Eli: Because here's the thing. The most efficient, hardworking people I know use marijuana all day, every day, nonstop. I also know some people who should stop smoking marijuana now and never smoke it again because they are fucking it up. There's nothing like talking to someone about losing their kids in a divorce and then they start to fill a bowl in front of you while they talk about how unfair it is and you're just like, mm -hmm, it's 9 a .m. Right.

0:15:57 Tom: I would agree with that. Yeah.

0:15:59 Thomas: Yeah. So I'm curious then, does that make it a moral issue? Like, okay, if someone asks you using marijuana morally wrong, I guess I could almost see that as maybe I would say morally acceptable or I would Say not a moral issue. I don't know. What do you think?

0:16:12 Tom: I don't know that it's a moral thing. I think something can be a good idea or a bad idea without necessarily, like gambling, right? Like I don'T think gambling should be legal. It's just, it's, it'S a bad IDEA. Socially speaking, we should be like hey, this isn't good for the functioning of society, right. Right. We shouldn't do that. So like but I don't think it's for moral reasons. I just think it'S like, right.

0:16:32 Thomas: I agree. I look at it as like, I don' t know, maybe if someone was going to be like too lazy or something, it's like, I don't really, I mean, just don't do it. I don'' t know. It's like life guidance or something. I don '' t know right

0:16:40 Eli: There's something wrong with the act itself, but I know lots of people who do that act and it affects other things that I put a tremendous amount of moral weight on, like how they treat their friends and family.

0:16:43 Thomas: Other people. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, but just so we all are on the same page, everybody, it is just as bad to smoke a joint as it is to hit your kid, literally to hit your fucking kid. That's where our country is.

0:16:53 Tom: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah 100 percent. Hit your kid. Yeah.

0:17:05 Eli: But is there anything else that shares that number? Thomas, next on the list.

0:17:09 Thomas: Hmm. Oh boy. Uh, getting a divorce.

0:17:15 Eli: Shame on you, Tom. Shame.

0:17:18 Thomas: Yeah. Eli and I are so moral. We can fucking look down our noses at you.

0:17:23 Eli: Can I say in the specific case of Tom's divorce, I found that morally laudable.

0:17:28 Tom: Same.

0:17:30 Eli: Mandatory. If he had not wanted to get divorced, I would have divorced him against his will.

0:17:36 Thomas: So that's an interesting one. I actually find this pretty, pretty interesting just talking about it. I think now under our new paradigm that we've reached. I think getting a divorce is a moral issue then. You'd say it's like, yes, it's a moral issues, but it is morally acceptable, is probably what I'd say. Because it affects a lot of people, could affect your kids if you're married and have kids. I don't think it's like a moral to think about, but is acceptable to do that in the circumstances. Yeah.

0:17:57 Tom: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I think it's my view is like it is wildly morally unacceptable to not have divorce be available. The inverse of that is like you've got people stuck in horrible, abusive, shitty situations with no way to get out of them, you know, or miserable, unhappy people or people that are happy with somebody else. And they can't persist. Nothing but misery on the other side of the coin at all. There's a really great joke is like divorce is always a good thing. There's no happy couple that ever got divorced it

0:18:27 Eli: Yeah, Louis C .K. has that great bit in the first special. Yeah.

0:18:29 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. It's a great bit.

0:18:30 Tom: Is a good bit it is a great bit

0:18:32 Eli: No one was ever like, everything was great and we were in love and then we got divorced. Worst oh

0:18:36 Thomas: Yeah . Yeah. You know, know, I didn't do the split. Do you guys want to guess if you haven't looked for the spanking the kids? What percentage of Democrats think it's, I guess the question is, yeah, I think it'S wrong. What percent of Republicans think itS wrong?

0:18:36 Tom: Yeah yeah yeah I mean it's he's right you know it's like it's a great bet but it's like yeah it's fucking true these democrats are fucking garbage so I'll say 20 percent of these idiots think it's wrong

0:18:53 Eli: God um it's gonna be I'll I'll say 30

0:19:02 Thomas: Do You want to Guess the Republican one or just go with that one first?

0:19:04 Eli: I'm gonna say 90 of republicans think it's fine oh uh

0:19:06 Thomas: No, I Think it'S Wrong.

0:19:07 Tom: Oh think it'S wrong yeah uh um four four percent of republicans think itS

0:19:14 Eli: I'll stay 70 of democrats think it wrong and I'll 10 of republics think

0:19:19 Thomas: Oh boy. You know, Eli, you almost nailed it because you said 30 earlier with the Democrats. It'S 35 Democrats think IT'S wrong, wrong. 35 % and 12 % of Republicans think it's wrong.

0:19:29 Eli: It that's crazy to me

0:19:30 Thomas: Only 35%. That can't, this came out recently, right? Yeah, it did. It's from within a year.

0:19:37 Tom: Wrong this wasn't like a like a little house on the prairie pole is this

0:19:40 Thomas: Yeah. I'm not, I mean, only 35. Yeah, hold on. The Jewish question is in here.

0:19:42 Eli: How do you feel about the great war and are you glad that there There will never be another.

0:19:51 Thomas: Oh, wait, no, that could

0:19:52 Eli: No, that's very modern. No, it's good.

0:19:52 Thomas: Apply today. It yeah shit jesus christ uh yeah no it was that there's one that was like yeah the answers were getting better and better until a certain year and then all of a sudden it's getting worse and worse on the anti -semitism but spaying children only 35 percent of democrat slash lean democrat so you know we can assume that they're at least in the ballpark of identifying who that is you know I know they have their methods of like oh I think it's just by let me see it's but I think it's by identification. So I think it's by people saying they didn't do any other questions to like figure out if someone was left.

0:19:54 Tom: Yeah that's still hot those numbers are moving too those numbers are moving every day turns out right

0:20:27 Thomas: It's just identification, which I think is appropriate in this context. So only 35 % of people who identify as Democrat or lean Democrat think spanking your kids is wrong. Like what what are we doing?

0:20:37 Tom: I don't know who those fucking people are I don'T know what they're doing all right what's the next

0:20:41 Thomas: Oh, did I what was the next one we did? It was because there was another one.

0:20:44 Eli: We did getting a divorce.

0:20:45 Tom: One yeah we did marijuana

0:20:46 Thomas: Okay, the split I wanted to do is split on getting divorced. Okay, I don't know if you guys want to get it's actually very similar. Holy shit. Oh, it's very similar but swapped. Okay. So for For getting a divorce, 33 % of Republicans think it's wrong. 13 % of Democrats think it'S wrong.

0:20:59 Tom: Who are these democrats have

0:21:00 Thomas: Yeah. All right. Honestly, with the other answers we've seen, yes,

0:21:03 Tom: You ever met a real person that's like you know divorce is morally wrong a real and like not a manosphere person they're not real but like an actual person in person with skin

0:21:11 Thomas: I think there are a significant group of people who think if you have kids, you should never get a divorce. I think There's people who Think that there's people Who think that and aren't crazy. Like, I Think they just have that, like, view for I think They're wrong. But like, they have the view that, Like, you never want to give your kids a split household. It's just so I think I think a lot of those people personally, but yeah, fighting and yelling.

0:21:29 Tom: You want the kids to have as much visibility into the dysfunction as possible

0:21:32 Eli: How can you be pro pornography, but against exposing children to divorce? Who's going to star in the pornography? They got to think ahead. Okay.

0:21:39 Thomas: Oh God. But given the fact that we have 20 % of Democrats who say homosexuality is morally wrong, to only have 13 % who say getting a divorce is morally wrong. I'm like, well, how could that be? How could your worldview be that? Yeah.

0:21:39 Tom: Yeah yeah one affects other people one is like none of my fucking business like literally none of mine fucking business

0:22:01 Thomas: What is happening here? Okay.

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0:22:10 Tom: All right the next one is being extremely rich only 18 percent of people say that's morally wrong

0:22:15 Eli: The full question is important here, right? Because like we're extremely rich on a global standard, right. Right. So the full question was being extremely rich, for example, having billions of dollars, which

0:22:25 Tom: Yeah yeah this is

0:22:32 Thomas: So we We got 18 say it's morally wrong, 18 say it's moral acceptable, 63 which is the most of any question, 63 say not a moral issue. Which I think, I guess at least I understand why people would say that because, oh no, it's just you know, yeah,

0:22:41 Eli: Is crazy. It's such an obviously moral issue.

0:22:47 Thomas: Oh for sure. But I understand why Americans would saythat though.

0:22:50 Eli: If there are three apples and three little boys and I have all of them and I can't eat three apples given an infinite amount of lifetimes, is this a moral question? No.

0:22:58 Tom: And however

0:23:04 Thomas: No, but I understand why Americans think that way though. Like we're just cultured into, you know like, even if If we don't think that we think that like we've been trained on this fucking mindset that you while it's just you do what you can, whatever you can attain or obtain, that's what you do.

0:23:08 Eli: Right, because we're all going to end up with the apples, aren't we?

0:23:21 Tom: You can obtain it. Yeah, right. Yeah.

0:23:21 Thomas: You know, it's not a moral thing. Yeah, it sucks.

0:23:22 Eli: Okay but can we can we take a moment like I understand why my grandfather and grandma they were wrong but I understand what my grandmother and grandfather thought jd rockefeller earned his dollars right because something something steel mill right had his name on the side right but the richest man in the world is elon

0:23:35 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Like a railroad guy. You're like, well, you had to build a bunch of railroads. Sure. Oh, God. Yep.

0:23:45 Eli: Musk nobody can possibly think it's a meritocracy that fucking fucking golem ass motherfucker is the richest I would begin to suspect the opposite I'd be like no I think it might be the opposite like you have

0:23:57 Thomas: Yeah. The less money you have, the better you are. Yeah.

0:24:01 Tom: Yeah but here's here's the problem. Here's the problem is that you are assuming a level of basic reasoning and decency that that genuinely very few people actually have. Like most people don't understand what a billion is. Like they can't conceive of, they've never actually like got out a calculator and done something with a billion as a number. Yeah, that's exhausting. Yeah. But I'm being serious. Like they don't know what a million is. They don't even understand what a billion in the world is. They don' t understand what a billion means and how numbers work.

0:24:26 Eli: They can't press that many zeros they're too tired their testosterone's too

0:24:38 Tom: Like even at the most elementary level. So they just like, they're just like well there's wrong with being rich. And it's like, look, there's nothing wrong with like being kind of wealthy. Right. But like, there is a level of obscenity to this that is like evident. I can show you why it's evident. They're just like math is for other people. And then, you know, they wander away and I don't chew bricks or whatever people like that do, but that's most people, man. Right.

0:24:45 Thomas: How rich matters. Yeah, exactly. And that's what I really think in the left. And I think people are trying to do this. I think we should very much make that distinction. I think people are. But I agree with you that people need to understand the difference between a fucking billionaire and someone who makes, I don't know, five hundred thousand dollars. Now, that seems very wealthy to me and us and everybody listening. I'm sure like five hundred thousand dollars seems like oh you fucking rich person but in the world that that I think in the world that we think would make people in the World that I Think would would make it better in terms of earning votes I think if we made very clear like hey in our world you shouldn't be allowed to be a fucking billionaire but if you want to like have an amazing business and work hard and make a million dollars that's great like people people should be able to have all their needs met because we have so much fucking wealth and then other people if they're really you know ambitious and they want to have millions of dollars and they actually want to work for it and pay taxes like there's nothing wrong with

0:25:19 Tom: Seems fine to me.

0:25:29 Eli: Low I'm with you tom let's make this happen baby honestly pretty modest depending on maybe they're the heart and soul of their podcast they deserve to be a millionaire

0:26:03 Thomas: That yeah millionaire podcasters over here yeah

0:26:05 Eli: Maybe maybe even maybe even a billionaire

0:26:09 Tom: It's like, it's like there's less than a thousand billionaires in the

0:26:13 Thomas: So we could eat all of them

0:26:13 Tom: United States. There's less a thousand. We can eat them all. We wouldn't even get full we wouldn't even get full

0:26:17 Eli: The weird thing that really brought it home for me because I always knew being a billionaire was a bad thing but there was a meme or like an article that I read years ago years ago that was just here's the most expensive yacht in the world here'sthe nicest most expensive house that's sold this year here'sTheMostExpensive private jet if you bought all of these for yourself once a year and you had a billion dollars you You would die before you had spent your billion dollars. And I was like, oh, yeah, this makes sense. That is too much money.

0:26:44 Thomas: Yeah jesus christ really wow

0:26:51 Eli: Like that, for some reason, that brought home, that's too much money for me.

0:26:51 Thomas: Yeah yeah no that's interesting because I think it puts in And when you and it's silly, it's insane. But when you think of like rich people things and you think, well, you know, if I bought like the best house, if I bought the best fucking private jet and the best yacht, that sort of should be the end. OK, I thought of everything.

0:27:07 Eli: You should be out of money.

0:27:09 Thomas: Yeah, you don't need to have maybe you have like a little bit left, but you shouldn't need TO NEVER RUN OUT. Out. Yeah.

0:27:15 Eli: You should have like ramen money left after. You should me wandering around your mansion with cup of noodle. Being like, this is too big. I don't know this many people.

0:27:24 Tom: Yeah if you had a billion dollars and you did nothing with it but buy fucking cds certificates of deposit and you got a 3 .5 percent yield on it you make 35 million dollars

0:27:26 Eli: And the microwave is all the way over there. I'm tired. It's too much

0:27:43 Tom: A year like people don't understand how the number works it's 35 $35 million a year and you invested it like an asshole. Like that's it. Like you did exactly all the wrong things. And you're like, I still made $35 billion. Yeah.

0:27:59 Thomas: Here's my question for you now. I think this is a genuine question now, because here's what I keep hearing. We look at Mackenzie Scott, Jeff Bezos's ex. She's like the one good billionaire. Like she got a billion, you know, billions from the divorce or maybe I don't. Yeah, I think that's like she had some money, but not billions. She just giving it all away. You know she's just like actually giving it all away now given the climate we're in given the fucking ecosystem we're part of me is like if you're a good billionaire I actually don't want you to give it away now I want you to buy elections like if You're a Good Billionaire I kind of want you right yeah because all we have are the bad ones buying our political system and then the good ones are like well I want to give my money to like you know people who deserve it It's like, yeah, no, I agree. But like, but now I'm to the point where maybe the better. Yeah, the better use of money might be. Well, maybe you use your billions to fix the system so that the system overall is better. I don't even know. But that also sucks.

0:28:34 Tom: By the right elections. Yeah. Timing, timing.

0:28:58 Thomas: You know, like, I kind of think whenever I hear the good billionaire and there's like two that are just giving their money away and it's just to charities and I'm like, OK, that's great. But maybe by an election or two, maybe by yourself, a congressman, you know?

0:29:09 Eli: Oh yeah I would definitely do some some here's the thing and I think this is important too because I often think about because I deserve a billion dollars I often think about what I would do with it I would doing some weird shit and no billionaires ever have done any fun weird shit think about that

0:29:18 Tom: Yeah, when

0:29:25 Thomas: Yeah speaking of louis ck bits yeah the one where he's like I would just buy all the pants no more pants oh

0:29:30 Eli: Yeah that sounds great

0:29:32 Tom: I was a kid, I used to think that like, if I got rich, I would would want to buy like Rhode Island just to own a whole state and then I could do whatever I wanted with it just like buy everything there and then it was like I'm

0:29:45 Eli: Look at jeffrey epstein jeffrey epstein is the only one who had a fuck island that we know of right he's the only one that had a fucking island and it well listen to let me spin let me weave my tail so we've

0:29:52 Tom: Very nervous about where this is headed is your hand on the 10 second thing Thomas we have a 10 second things right this isn't

0:29:53 Thomas: Where's this going yeah okay yeah

0:30:01 Eli: All we because because fuck island is definitely in the cards for all of us right we all think

0:30:07 Thomas: So he has a rape island you mean a fuck fuck island and a rape island

0:30:07 Tom: BAFTA what

0:30:09 Eli: Well that's the thing he it's not a fuck Island

0:30:11 Tom: Yeah there is a big difference

0:30:11 Thomas: Two different two different islands totally different islands

0:30:14 Eli: It's just think it's the worst possible fuck Island it's an anti -fuck island I

0:30:17 Thomas: Yeah yeah a fuck island where you're like hey consensual people do you want to go fuck on an island they're like that sounds great

0:30:25 Eli: Would put a billboard in New York Times that just said I'll give you a million dollars to come to fuck island

0:30:27 Tom: I feel like there's a sandals resort where you could do that already though you

0:30:30 Thomas: Yeah yeah but there's other people there I want my own fuck yeah

0:30:33 Tom: Know just fucking yourself on the

0:30:35 Thomas: I'm just masturbating on this island yeah

0:30:37 Tom: Island just run around I feel

0:30:40 Eli: You could create the perfect most consensual you literally just have to have a second burning man on an island and you've basically created the second most consensuel

0:30:50 Thomas: Dude

0:30:52 Tom: Like I'll just go to burning man and someone else will clean

0:30:53 Thomas: You could have like armed consent soldiers that are like fuck OK,

0:30:53 Eli: That's right yes everyone could have a consent coach that just follows them around and is like exactly yes

0:30:59 Tom: Up that's consent I

0:30:59 Thomas: Like stormtroopers that just blast you at the minute. Yeah, I could send soldiers. Yeah, they'd be child soldiers. No, I'm just kidding.

0:31:03 Tom: Feel weird about consent soldiers now too I don't know oh god a

0:31:08 Eli: I know you're screaming yes yeah there's so all the things and everyone does the same insane shit well first of all they're all money hoarders which is why they have a billion dollars

0:31:19 Thomas: I think that's right. I think you have to have something missing from you to want that much money. I really do.

0:31:24 Eli: Yeah number go up

0:31:24 Tom: Hundred percent you're broken inside

0:31:26 Thomas: Like I'm not talking about in theory. I'm talking about the fucking nuts and bolts of what it takes in your life life to get that much money, to actually go through with all those things, I think you have to have something wrong with you. You have to have Something Missing.

0:31:40 Eli: Right because you have to start with all the money you could ever spend in your life you have get to that point and then your tony d is like hey man what next and you're like number go out more and they're like you sure don't want to just eat it per se three meals?

0:31:56 Thomas: Man. That was one of my favorite parts of Breaking Bad was when Skyler's like, all right, we've got the fucking thing full of cash. I can't even do anything with it. You want more, more of this? You got to get more of this? Like, I thought that was a really good moment in that show where it's like oh yeah, Yeah, he's he's an asshole. Like there's no he has no reason to be doing this.

0:32:13 Tom: Yeah he's broken he's broken it's just at some point what you're doing now is you're keeping score but you're not just keeping score I was talking to somebody about this at work like you're the problem is you're not just keeping score you're keeping score and hurting other people at the same time like because there's no world where you're accumulating that much wealth and being like you know I could help I I could be a benevolent god but I would rather be an indifferent

0:32:37 Thomas: And the people you are trying to score points against are the worst fucking people. That's the thing. Like, it's one thing to be like, oh, I'm competitive with my friends about something you want. But like that you're in group that you'RE trying to SCORE POINTS against are THE FELLOW WORST PSYCHOPATHS ON THE PLANET. It's the WORST.

0:32:54 Eli: Imagine Mark Zuckerberg wanting anything and going, well, I want that too. Come on! There's nothing.

0:32:59 Tom: God it's like if thomas's hockey team is like all right here's the thing I'm going to try to score as many points as possible because I like the points I just I just want the points I don't need them I already have plenty I just wanted a lot of points now the other team the other team, if I win, if I get a lot of points, they actually have to sleep outside and can't eat food. Also, they didn't agree to it.

0:33:10 Thomas: Yeah. Where's this going? Oh, right. Right.

0:33:20 Tom: Also, they did not agree to be in this game. So they're in the game.

0:33:21 Thomas: Yeah. And I'm like, no, I still want to try, though.

0:33:24 Tom: Yeah, right, yeah. Yeah. Now, I don't know if I told anybody, but I started this game with 3 million points.

0:33:25 Eli: And it's a peewee league.

0:33:26 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Full contact. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. If you do anything other than hitting the puck into your own net as fast as you could to score points for the children that are starving on the other side, if you do any other than that, you're horrible.

0:33:33 Tom: I did start with 3 million points, so it's very fair.

0:33:34 Eli: My dad was, he was dominating a, that's,

0:33:46 Thomas: You should literally be forming a team of people to score on yourself as fast as possible. Yeah.

0:33:46 Tom: You're the worst. Yeah, you're the worst. Okay, so have we decided? Not a moral issue.

0:33:54 Eli: Not a moral issue. We all agree.

0:33:56 Tom: Not a moral issue all

0:34:03 Ad: [Ad break 4 — ad music]

0:34:05 Tom: Right let's move on drinking alcohol like it's the same as marijuana like I don't understand why there's a distinction

0:34:07 Thomas: Drinking alcohol. Yeah.

0:34:11 Eli: Which religion are you in that drinking is bad?

0:34:13 Thomas: Yeah. I think, okay, if I were to sympathize maximally with the drinking alcohol being morally wrong, I think and it's only 16%. I think there's at least that many people who have been really badly affected by somebody being an alcoholic piece of shit. So, like, I'll probably forgive those people for being like, yeah, you should never do it.

0:34:32 Tom: I put it like gambling though it's like I think like genuinely I kind of agree like I Think socially alcohol does a lot of harms I don't think there's actually any dispute about that like alcohol is a bad drug yeah

0:34:42 Thomas: I got a question for you, Tom. Tom, if you had to rank these, the alcohol, the gambling and porn, where do you compare? Because I was just thinking, like in terms of alcohol, I could see being like. Oh, interesting.

0:34:51 Tom: Alcohol porn gambling in terms of harms social harms

0:34:54 Thomas: OK. Yeah, no, that makes sense.

0:34:56 Eli: I think, I think gambling needs to outring.

0:34:58 Thomas: But I but numbers wise, I think is the interesting thing, because pornography, as we covered before, is so is the second highest, like 52 percent. Yeah.

0:35:06 Tom: Well people are worked up about sex stuff like a fucking like as soon as like yeah yeah no

0:35:08 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. So I just wanted to, I was just, I was trying to see, you wouldn't agree with like that prioritizing of, yeah, okay.

0:35:15 Eli: All right. Now we finally have one that I agree with the nation joins hands with me nine percent including eli bosnick know that it is morally wrong to use ivf I'm tired of meeting your twins and pretending you just had twins you didn't just have twins twins isn't that crazy we waited so long to have kids and then we had twins no you didn't you fucking that's like tom just being like look at my testosterone levels isn't that

0:35:41 Thomas: You're 53. You didn't. Yeah. Now that's one where I feel like the answer is not a moral issue, right? Is that a, for

0:35:47 Tom: It's naturally like this

0:35:47 Eli: Crazy it just comes out of my eyeballs when I don't sleep do

0:35:57 Tom: Well I don't know I think I think you

0:35:59 Thomas: You and I, I could, I could get people who were like, oh, Oh, because the little fucking

0:36:00 Tom: Yeah yeah I think I think if you know how a science is then it's not a moral issue right like Like, yeah,

0:36:03 Thomas: Blastocysts or whatever. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm not surprised at the country. I'm saying for us, for us. Would you say not a moral issue? I think I would say.

0:36:13 Eli: You think the nine percent are the people who are like ivf is wrong because you should be adopting

0:36:13 Tom: It's nothing, yeah.

0:36:18 Thomas: Well, I'm surprised it's this low because there was the Republican MAGA push toward that a little bit with the, because it's just the next thing people wanted to go for.

0:36:25 Tom: Yeah, but those are just the lunatics, man. Like, everybody else is like, look, we don't want to call attention to our internal inconsistencies.

0:36:32 Thomas: Yeah, but fucking 52% of people said that pornography is more, LIKE, YOU KNOW, LIKE ACTUALLY, LOOK AT THE NEXT ONE. Look at the next one using contraceptives eight percent like I'm just surprised it's that low on ivf

0:36:40 Tom: Because they're sure they can still get it.

0:36:46 Eli: No I'm part of that too they

0:36:49 Tom: That's fucking...

0:36:49 Thomas: It's morally wrong how weird they feel

0:36:49 Eli: Feel weird it's morally wrong if you think about it you violated my consent because I don't wanna I'm

0:36:59 Thomas: So with the number of people who think that abortion is killing a baby but they're not against ivf you know what I mean like it involves

0:37:09 Tom: That's the thing, like, yeah but like, what you're, you're trying to square a circle that these people are like, look, at the end of the day I'd get the abortion too. If it served me. So the difference is like the IVF is like the IVF serves me. I want to make sure I have my options.

0:37:15 Thomas: Oh I I know. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm saying they're hypocrites.

0:37:20 Eli: Having an affair I'm watching porn with my mistress. Then she gets pregnant. We have an abortion. Then my wife gets IVF to get pregnant because I'm too old.

0:37:29 Thomas: No. No. Also they're like, all right, sir, you need to go and jack off into this cup in order to do this fucking artificial insemination or something. And like, oh, I can't look at porn when I'm doing that. That would be, that would be a sin. I have to do.

0:37:39 Eli: Can't look at porn. I just got to do it. I got to raw dog my imagination. Tell me you don't have depression without telling me you have depression that you can jerk off without porn. The notion that I can spend any time alone with my thoughts and it does time alone, with my thought masturbating and it doesn't turn into self-hatred. Yeah makes it easier and then four percent right down here at the bottom understand that needing meat is wrong okay

0:38:01 Thomas: Yeah but I thought you, I thought that's part of it for you that doesn't make it come right away yep the one thing that's actually probably of all I'm trying to look at all the things you know we got death penalty I guess maybe being extremely rich okay the time trying to think what's our rank if we were had to re-rank these fucking things because married people having an affair was top you know like and I know it's a little bit different than people's priorities because just the number of people who say yeah yeah

0:38:31 Eli: We're doing the Dear Old Dads finalists okay so I think we can all agree the worst thing on here is the death penalty because you're murdering people because you can be extremely rich without killing people okay s s tier baths are being extremely rich,

0:38:38 Thomas: Or being extremely rich honestly yeah I guess it depends on how

0:38:42 Tom: Yeah, it's hard. I think we should do S tier. Like, it'd be hard to rank them exactly.

0:38:45 Thomas: You yeah yeah yeah top

0:38:53 Eli: Spanking children, and the death penalty.

0:38:53 Thomas: Tier death penalty yeah I think so

0:38:57 Tom: That's S tier, yeah.

0:38:58 Eli: Right? Then A tier. These things are bad, but sometimes you got to marry people. Yeah. Eating meat.

0:39:04 Thomas: So for me I think eating meat would be next on that right don't you

0:39:08 Tom: Eating meat is objectively wrong, and I like meat. I don't think like morally speaking that's a circle I can square I just recognize that I do it because I like it and it's wrong but I like it anyway no

0:39:10 Thomas: Think yeah yeah when I ate meat I would say I said that I was like I think it's morally wrong but I do it anyway but the fact that there's only four percent of our fucking country there is only one of these things which one don't let me exaggerate maybe I'm wrong there is one of these things that we've talked about we've now done two episodes on these things there's how many items are there like 15 or so there's one that there's a stereotype of how these people are so fucking annoying and all they do is talk about how you shouldn't eat meat and blah blah and it's the thing that's the bottom of the list that no one gives a shit about like no one cares years.

0:39:37 Eli: Why

0:39:49 Tom: One cares even weirder 54 % of people are like that's not even a moral issue eating meat doesn't even interact with morally

0:39:58 Eli: Would killing something sentient and eating its flesh be moral?

0:40:01 Thomas: It'd be a moral issue.

0:40:02 Tom: I'll say like I actually don't really care too much about that but I do think that there's like real harms like climate control harms that like we are not contending with and I also think there's real harms in terms of like the spread of disease that we are not contending with that these things are just have massive downstream effects so even if I like grant if even if I move away from the harm to the animal itself it's like what if I'm just considering human interactions like yeah it's not good it's just

0:40:11 Thomas: Guys, I know for me, it's all one podcast, and I apologize because it is all one broadcast for me. I'm a broken record. It's reactionary assholes is the podcast for me. It's just so telling to me that the least controversial issue on here, least controversial, 4%, only 4% say eating meat is morally wrong. That's one. It's not the only thing I guess but that's one where there's an entire fucking industry of people talking about how annoying the pita people are and the vegan people they're so annoying and they always are like putting their views on everybody they're always judging you that's what's wrong with our society is that the things that fucking literally no one disagrees with you on like being white and being christian and fucking eating meat it's like those things are the things that people think are in a threat like the trump administration thinks it's under threat they have a whole civil rights division for being a white christian now you know because you're so you're so fucking discriminated against eating meat is right on there there's a whole stereotype of how horrible the people who are against it are and it's the most agreed upon thing like it's the least

0:41:29 Thomas: Threat to you it's so crazy yeah

0:41:29 Tom: Not yeah I do think it is because people don't want to contend with their cognitive dissonance on the issue our nanny that worked for us for years. She was a vegan and she was not preachy about it at all. In fact, like it went the other direction. I would tease her occasionally about like, you know, not eating real food. You know, so stupid, boring jokes, like dad jokes about it.

0:41:50 Thomas: You have to torture it out of eli to even talk about the fact that he's vegan he never talks about it unless it's a topic of the conversation or something.

0:41:53 Tom: Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and

0:41:57 Eli: Unless I'm desperately trying to order at a restaurant without getting diarrhea.

0:42:02 Tom: Eli, Eli, if you go out with Eli, Eli will book restaurants with your eating habits in mind, even if they don't have good vegan options. He's done that for groups of people that I've been with him on.

0:42:13 Eli: That's true. You.

0:42:13 Tom: He'd be like, oh, this place is supposed to have great steak or whatever it happens to be. He'll look up things that he is morally objecting to in order to make other people more... That is how not annoying he is about that issue.

0:42:27 Thomas: It just goes to show how twisted like humans suck. Our priorities are so wrong. We get so threatened by something that's not even a threat. And then people build their entire politics out of it. Now, not necessarily the meat thing, but people would build their whole politics out of being worried that Christianity is under threat because there's like three people that are like, hey, fucking Christianity sucks, you know?

0:42:46 Tom: So let's bring this to parenting real quick, because I'm curious. When I was a kid growing up, my dad and I would have long and lengthy debate-style conversations about moral issues like this about the death penalty and about like and and he would always just kind of take whatever the opposite position was and we would just gently kind of debate back and forth on these things we did it a lot we did all the time and I think for me it was a very useful way to like understand my own thoughts have somebody probe somebody that I trusted that I thought was a smart person somebody I thought had you know a good sense of like his own morals and his own self, you know, probe at my ideas as a young person. And I look at this and I'm like, all right, people aren't doing that, right? That's not how people are arriving at their conclusions. I look at this list, and they're just stupid. Like, I have to say, like, at some point, if you're like, contraception, oh, I don't know.

0:43:45 Tom: God, you're a stupid person. Like there's no way hey, you're not genuinely functionally stupid, right? Like, there's nothing else for you. You're garbage, and you should just be thrown in a sandpit.

0:43:52 Thomas: Man, you ever think about that? I think about that almost similar to the billionaire thing. I point I made a moment ago where I'm like, well, at this point, the billionaires need to just like buy elections because you can't start. I have this twang. I don't do it, but I have the this twanging feeling when it comes to this, because what I want to do as a parent is exactly what you're talking about, Tom, where when we talk about some of these deeper issues with the kids, I don't want to just prescribe to them the right thing. I don't want to be like, yep, we're in this house. We do that. I don't fucking, you know, I mean, unless it's something that's a good and we do it in this house. You don't hit like I do. That's the one thing like you don't, you don't hit people. We just don't hit people. We don't do that. But beyond that, I would want to be like, yeah, take them through it. You want your kid to develop thinking, you know, like develop, like being able to contend with these ideas. But part of me, I just had this thought of like, fuck, it's just the people who are assholes are too sure of themselves. And the people who are cool are not sure enough of themselves?

0:44:52 Tom: Yeah.

0:44:52 Thomas: Are we just to the point where Mackenzie Scott just fucking, we just got to give our morals. We got to buy the morals of our kids. We got to use dirty money to just tell our kids, no, be certain that this thing is good or bad. But I don't want to do that. But it sort of feels like that's the kind of thing you're talking about, Tom, where it's like the people are really thoughtful. The people are going to engage in that kind of things. I think we're never as sure of ourselves as the people who are like, no, porn wrong, divorce wrong, homosexuality wrong. Wrong you know it's stupid sucks yeah

0:45:24 Tom: Here's the thing. There's no way you can articulate a position, much less defend it on this stuff, right, so they haven't even been asked to do that. They're just like, well, I got a feeling down deep in my tum-tum, and that's where my thoughts come from. You're like, okay, all right, whatever.

0:45:38 Thomas: Last point on this lest we think there's like a big partisan divide when you look at the eating meat the number of people democrats who say it's morally wrong six percent republicans two percent fuckers you universally think it's fine to eat meat universally stop being fucking worried about the three people who don't eat meat Jesus

0:46:04 Clip: DEAR OLD DADS

0:46:10 Eli: Right, gentlemen, before we go, my son said, what rhymes with orange? I pondered for a moment and I told him, no, it doesn't.

0:46:23 Thomas: Christ

0:47:09 Eli: That's right. If you've ever heard an auto ad, you'll never live in Christ's grace.

0:47:14 Tom: Gotta whack

0:47:16 Thomas: A gentle rub atop your pants and no more uh what's her name again um you know Jeff Bezos's ex-wife that uh wait that's her what wait what no ex-wife sorry what Mackenzie Mackenzie Scott I don't know I don' t think can you look her up right now so I have any idea what you're talking anyway

0:47:25 Eli: The pow pow fish. She looks like the pow powfish. Yeah, she looks like the bow bow fish. I know what she looks like. She's like the fish. You look it up.

0:47:26 Tom: Them I don't know I have no idea what

0:47:46 Eli: If you think about it, you violated my consent because I don't want to.