DOD270: Poll on Moral Issues Explains Everything Wrong with America

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's judging you, judging me. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:38 Thomas: Wait, I must have hit play on an old one, because I'm hearing Tom.

0:00:41 Eli: Yeah, no, this must be an ancient episode.

0:00:44 Thomas: Well, and Eli! Holy shit.

0:00:44 Tom: I am always sometimes here. I am sometimes always nearly here -ish. I'm, like, adjacent to the band.

0:00:53 Eli: Listeners probably won't hear this for a couple of weeks, but I was writing a list of betrayals the cast of Citation Needed has done against me, and it was just part of my workflow or anything else that the Citation needed cast has done against me and the one I listed for Tom was missing a bunch of shows. So his wife could get plastic surgery on her head or something. I don't know. I wasn't paying attention. Attention.

0:01:01 Tom: Wait, what? A list of betrayals? What betrayals we have done against you I can't wait hey I have a I have a funny thing that just happened today like it's a it's a guy thing for sure I think I've mentioned on the show that I have been supplementing testosterone for a while probably last 10 years or so I supplement testosterone through a doctor as we age our testosterone levels naturally decline I don't want my testosterone levels to decline so I I get these bioidentical pellets twice a year put in, and that keeps my testosterone.

0:01:21 Thomas: I'm excited for that. Jesus. Put in? Like, put into your balls, or what? Where do they put them?

0:01:51 Tom: No, they put them into your skin. So they're subcutaneous. Sorry, I should have mentioned.

0:01:54 Thomas: Yeah, like, that's obvious.

0:01:55 Tom: They're subcutaneous little pellets.

0:01:57 Thomas: No idea. Wow.

0:01:57 Tom: So there's, yeah, no, there's these tiny little pelllets. They're about the size of like a big grain of rice. And depending on how, you know, how much testosterone you're supplementing, they put these pellets in and then they dissolve in your body over time. You're actually supposed to get them like every six months. I have to get them like every three to four months because I work out a lot. So like you burn through them faster.

0:02:18 Eli: Burned through my testosterone too quickly.

0:02:20 Tom: You do. You actually burn through them a lot quicker. So I get them a little more often.

0:02:21 Thomas: Of course, it was never going to be, oh, I only have to do it every other year or whatever. It was always going to be whatever it is. I have to Do It Every Week.

0:02:27 Tom: Now, the more active you are, the More They Burn Out.

0:02:31 Eli: Tom, I'm a little disappointed that the one bad science thing you haven't bought into is the one that I'm doing, GLP -1s. It feels lonely over here, I gotta say. Of all the bad science...

0:02:41 Tom: Well, the thing is, like, I have no interest in having my testosterone drop as I age. I'm almost 50 years old. The acceptable clinical range is all the way down to 200 for my age. Like you would feel like I do. Yeah. Yeah. So like there's an enormous range of like acceptable, but you can go to a doctor and be like, hey, I would like some more. And yeah, and they'll kick it up a notch, you

0:02:52 Thomas: I don't know what that means, though. Do you know what That Means?

0:03:03 Thomas: I got that. I got That. How do you know that being on one end of that is bad or good?

0:03:09 Eli: Oh, he's met me.

0:03:11 Tom: Know, because there's a ton of studies out there that actually show like that this range is pretty widely agreed upon to be too fucking big. And the thing, too, that like I think a lot of people don't understand or realize, because why would you, is that when you go get lab tests, those ranges of whether something is normal or not, they're not the same from one lab to the next lab.

0:03:32 Tom: The lab itself actually tells you what the range is. So if you go to like, what are the big nationals? The big national lab companies are Quest and LabCorp. And you get a liver enzyme test, like an ALT or AST liver enzyme tests. The values on there are not determined by that fucking liver society of fucking doctors or whatever it's determined by quest I'm not even kidding though so quest will have different normal lab values and lab ranges than lab core your

0:04:01 Thomas: You know, doesn't your doctor look at it and say,

0:04:06 Tom: Doctor looks to see generally is it in the range but then like the range is oftentimes determined at least in part like there's differences between the labs so my point being that like it's not as dialed in as you would would expect it to be?

0:04:21 Thomas: Yeah, and I'm not trying to be rude, but my question is, but why would you know that a specific place in that range is better? Like you, Tom. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm asking. So, yeah.

0:04:28 Tom: Because there's a ton of studies on it. I was curious about it. So there's ton of, yeah, that's what I was, so there's tons of studies that, like, you feel generally, many people, not everybody, but many people will feel generally pretty shitty in that 2 to 450 range, but it may not flag as clinically sub, there's name for it, hypogonadism, so it won't flag for low testosterone, which is all to get to my point that I've been, I've been supplementing testosterone, not a lot, but I've been supplemented testosterone for like a little over 10 years, about 10 years give or take I don't know, a long time, and I keep my level, I monitor my blood and all this stuff a few times a year, and I keep my testosterone levels no,

0:04:50 Eli: My testosterone is so low that that fucking me counts as gender -affirming care for trans women.

0:04:57 Thomas: I have no idea. Yeah.

0:05:12 Eli: That's true. You don't sleep. The fact that you do this, but not sleep, is B -A -N -A N -A S.

0:05:20 Tom: But I'll tell you why so, but hang on a second, so I look and I'm like, alright, well, like, if I was 25, what would my testosterone be, andi keep my testosterone at about that level, give or tak, so it fluctuates a little bit, but that's the number that I shoot for. So I'm not shooting for like bodybuilder, crazy bullshit, but I'm trying to keep my testosterone at a younger age. Yeah, man, I don't want fucking 50 year old testosterone, man.

0:05:38 Eli: Just a normal 25 -year -old 50. Tom, are you friends with that billionaire guy who looks like Data from Star Trek

0:05:48 Tom: No, no, no. Fuck that.

0:05:48 Thomas: Who like I'm pretty sure he fucks his own kid or something

0:05:48 Eli: And tells me I'm going to live forever if I drink his lemonade? Yeah, yeah. How much of Finn's blood is in you right now? You can't lie.

0:05:55 Thomas: Yeah you have to

0:06:00 Tom: Some. No. So, and I do feel a lot better. And like, you're right. I don'T sleep. Like I don' t sleep very much. I sleep. Now I'm like a little under four hours lately so I'm in the 350 range I

0:06:06 Thomas: Say

0:06:10 Eli: Ooh, what a fancy lad you've been lately.

0:06:12 Thomas: Yeah jesus

0:06:13 Tom: Know if you if you sleep as little as I do your body will also produce yeah it I mean honestly it will like it doesn't it's not good I'm not I'm acknowledging fully it is not good for

0:06:18 Eli: Shut down, die.

0:06:22 Thomas: Die yeah I just love the idea of tom going to the doctor having all this stuff dialed in he's like Like, yeah, I think my fucking levels are a little bit whatever. And he's got this chart and stuff. And the doctor's like, hey, man, you're going to just die from not sleeping. Do that part. My riboflavin levels are slightly.

0:06:38 Eli: Your eyes are bleeding

0:06:39 Tom: You pass what else you got we can inject something into my eyes I'm sure yeah

0:06:41 Eli: Every time you blink. If I say I'm testing your levels, will you take a nap on this piece of paper in my office?

0:06:52 Tom: I

0:06:52 Thomas: Yeah. How do I put this in the form of like chemical that's like manly that you don't have enough of?

0:06:55 Eli: You might have the testosterone of a 25 -year -old. You have the sleep schedule of a three -month -old, uh a

0:07:05 Tom: Do I do it's bad but like if you don't sleep your testosterone levels will drop so like it's it's I know I know. I am solving the problem at the wrong end like let me just say it out loud I'm solving the problem at the right time. I'm doing it right now.

0:07:06 Thomas: Oh, I think I found, Tom, I think I've found the culprit. Yeah.

0:07:06 Eli: Colicky one tom when I get you fired your testosterone is going to be like a 19 year old think about it it's gonna be great

0:07:24 Thomas: He's going to be growing extra ball sacks like all over his body. Just like.

0:07:30 Tom: I coming up in like a couple of days. And my doctor was like, Hey, you know, I put an order in.

0:07:34 Eli: Emotionally preparing himself psyching himself up at home oh just in the mirror that'll kill you that will kill you how do I honey will you tell me if you if this sounds like it would make a change in you either

0:07:49 Tom: So I go to a different doctor for the testosterone than I do that. My GP, my GP is not the guy that does it. So I haven't had testosterone labs through my G it's just not a specialty, but like I GP has never run a testosterone panel before. It's just is not part of my regular workup but as I get closer to 50 he put it in the orders I didn't notice it when got my blood drawn and I got my results back today and he sent me back a thing and he's like so you haven't disclosed it but you're clearly supplementing testosterone and we'll talk about that on your appointment on wednesday because like the level is just you know it's it's higher than you would expect for a 48 year old man so it just made me laugh because I was like, oh yeah.

0:07:56 Thomas: Because he's a real pussy.

0:08:29 Eli: You're a cartoon wolf who saw a sexy lady walk by just now or there's a pill in your leg

0:08:35 Tom: Well, it's funny. Cause like I have a hard policy that I never lie to my doctors. I always disclose. I never lied. I just fucking didn't bring it up. Like, I don't know why I just never brought it up, but I do think I thought like he might not approve and I don' want to tell him about it, you know, but like, I'm not getting it like from some dude at Gold's gym. I feel weird about it. But I do it anyway.

0:08:55 Thomas: I totally agree with that policy, but how does that apply? I'm curious about this, Tom. I go to the dentist and they ask a lot of questions for some reason. They'll be like, any health changes? Are you doing any medication? And I'm just like, I don't think you need to know that. I think just scrub a dub dub,

0:09:10 Tom: Just look at the old teeth.

0:09:11 Eli: How dare you

0:09:11 Thomas: Just get in there. You know, like, I don'T THINK YOU NEED TO KNOW. Yeah.

0:09:13 Eli: How dare you talk shit about the edible bone surgeon like that I like dentists so much more because dentists are just doctors who work on exposed bones and everything they use has to be edible and it can't even taste bad it has to taste

0:09:22 Thomas: Yeah, I love that. But they're always mad when I eat it first thing, when I come in and eat the tools right away, they're always like, come on, man. It's, but why'd

0:09:37 Eli: I was like come on that's why we keep them in the plastic

0:09:41 Thomas: You make it edible if I'm not supposed to eat it?

0:09:43 Tom: Do you guys have a dental phobia? Do either one of you have a dental phopia at all? Does anyone in your house have dental phobias? No.

0:09:46 Eli: No I love no

0:09:49 Thomas: Everybody in my house is afraid of everything. No one in myhouse can do anything except Arlo.

0:09:57 Tom: Arlo's fine with it. Yeah.

0:09:57 Thomas: Yeah, he's fine. Oh boy jesus

0:09:58 Eli: Arlo goes there on the way home from school every day just

0:10:04 Tom: Haley has a pretty severe dental phobia. She had some bad experiences when she was a kid having teeth removed with insufficient pain relief. I had my wisdom teeth removed with insufficient pain relief. That's a very unpleasant experience. It's like that is a zero out of ten did you

0:10:18 Eli: I also had that yeah what is my dad was poor he had like a friend who was a dentist who retired like three months later do it and he was like I could do it for like 20 bucks and so So Novocaine only raw dogged the wisdom teeth out of the left side of my mouth. And I was like, no, being

0:10:28 Thomas: Oh jesus oh my god

0:10:36 Tom: Samesies

0:10:38 Thomas: Eli I know you're a big fan of your dad um that sounds sounds

0:10:43 Tom: No being poor yeah

0:10:43 Eli: Poor was not his best moment. Yeah, there were a lot of I'm poor now, so I'm making these choices moments that have not made it to air. And that is one of them. Yeah. And then I got a real doctor for the second two with like a fountain in his office and gas. And I Was like, oh, all right. I better be funny on the Internet.

0:10:50 Thomas: Bad jesus

0:11:02 Tom: Yeah my wisdom teeth I they came in when I was like 18 or 19 I was broke as fuck and I went to the orthodontist whoever pulls them out the fucking oral maxillofacial surgeon or whatever and they're like yeah you gotta pull all four of them out and you got some infection over on the one side or whatever and I'm like all right well how much is it gonna cost and he's like well this for the anesthesia. I'm like, well, let's pair that back a little bit.

0:11:25 Tom: We're not going to do the anesthesia. I don't have a thousand bucks or whatever. And so we got it down to where I could afford it, which is the same thing, just like Novocaine and that's it.

0:11:25 Thomas: Christ this is so tom they're like okay fucking jesus Christ oh

0:11:36 Tom: He did the one side and it was uncomfortable, but not the end of the world. And then he did the other side. I was like, I can feel that. And he's like, no, you can't. And I was like, I definitely can feel

0:11:42 Thomas: Come on he said no you

0:11:48 Tom: That yes he did and then he gave me another shot and then he came back in like a little while later he put the tool back there and I'm like hey man I can really feel that and he's like there's no way it's just pressure and he grabbed that fucking tooth and pulled it out I jumped out of the chair and screamed this guy put his hand on my chest pushed me back in the chair and said settle down there champ and then he pulled out the other tooth and I was like like I I was shaking. I felt like I was going to die. Like, I was, like, literally shaking in the chair.

0:11:51 Eli: Gumption

0:12:13 Thomas: Can't holy shit next week that guy was arrested for impersonating a fucking dentist Dentists. There's no way.

0:12:23 Eli: Dentist I'm

0:12:23 Tom: Dentist, right? So then the nurse comes back. I'm having a hard time. Like, I'm, like literally pouring sweat and shaking and I'm just like, oh my God, what the fuck just happened? The nurse comes and she's like, the nurse came back and says, the dentist wanted to apologize. You had a little more infection. So the Novocaine may have traveled along the line of infection and not numbed you properly.

0:12:41 Tom: And I was like, it's okay. I gotta go now. I'm like, I, like, Like, yeah, it was fucking awful, man.

0:12:44 Thomas: Yeah. I got to get back to work.

0:12:47 Eli: Sorry I told you where all those nukes were I actually didn't know yeah yeah I tell you about the time I got dent

0:12:56 Thomas: We got to take the first break, man. We're going to die. Okay, go ahead.

0:12:58 Eli: Joan well no I want to tell my beautiful word tale these auto ads are bad and if you want to get rid of them they're patreon .com forward slash dear old dads commercial free version of every single show rip into it all

0:13:09 Thomas: Hey, rip into it.

0:13:17 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:13:18 Eli: Right so I think I I got dentist perverted one time. Now, I want to be clear. I want it to be clear because there are other people who might have had similar medical experiences and I have nothing but empathy. You're way ahead of me, baby. I want to point out that I think this is funny and it's my sexuality

0:13:22 Tom: Do you have to swallow or can you use the Mr. Thirsty? Oh, shit.

0:13:37 Eli: And you don't get to make it a bummer at me. All right. So I go to my dentist. This is the old one that I had when I was a college student living up in Spanish Harlem. Go to my dentist and she was like, Like, we got a new guy. Do you mind if he works on you? And I was like, no problem at all. So the first thing he does is he sits down. I don't know about you guys. I've never been in my life since or before has a dentist sat down and sort of gotten at my level while working. They have always stood. They're walking back and forth. They got tools going on. No one's ever made themselves comfortable. He sits down and the first things he does he places his hand on my forehead and gently pets my head. While we are talking so he's like all right and do you floss and I'm just it's just like pat pat pat

0:14:14 Tom: Unzipped his pants.

0:14:15 Thomas: Yeah. Huh. What? No.

0:14:18 Tom: Oh, that's standard dental patting. What's happening right now?

0:14:28 Eli: And I'll be like huh I guess because I'm in drama school at the time so I'm doing a lot of touching that I'll only recognize is not appropriate until later in life and I like huh well you know maybe he's just sort of trying to calm me down and so he does the dental cleaning And several times throughout the dental cleaning, he makes like incredibly inappropriate comments like, I don't know how you get away with having a beautiful mouth like this in the village. And I was like, ah, so I go back six months later, however long, and I was like, hey, whatever happened to that guy? Because I've like, I've done that thing.

0:14:42 Tom: Putting you at ease, yeah.

0:15:08 Eli: I don't know if you've had this. You have a bad experience that when you're a grown -up, you're going to realize was a bad experience. But you're still a young person and so you just want to talk to that person to clarify you want to be like hey when you hit me with your car the wheels hurt right like you tell me this and I was like where's dental guy and she was like oh we got rid of him he was very inappropriate with the patients and I Was like he was she was Like yes no I don't even want to really want to Talk

0:15:08 Thomas: I miss

0:15:41 Eli: About it and I was like me neither mean no more fillings in a happy well you know I thought it was just a different form of filling

0:15:45 Tom: So wait a minute. No more fillings and a happy ending? Everybody leaves with a smile. I don't know. It seems like a great... I never had to tip the dentist before. Just the tip, but yeah, it's fine. All right, so speaking of... Is it morally acceptable to tip your dentist? I don' t know. Know let's let's transfer this so there was a pew research poll came out recently we want to talk through some of this stuff pew research poll America are split on whether or not a variety of things are considered acceptable morally republicans and democrats differ sharply no shock there on abortion homosexuality and the death penalty whether these things are morally wrong I think it'll be fun to go through this list and get some bears let's see how many bears we can find on which signs of these yeah so I don't think we're going to be as far apart on these as as you might think but maybe I don' t know

0:16:43 Thomas: Oh it's not that I think it's just fucking insane I want so I think I sent this right because I just couldn't it sort of explained like everything wrong with our entire society where you're just like oh this is what people care about like this is what people are worried about like that's why we're here

0:16:49 Tom: You did yeah yeah okay so if that's the if that's attack you want to take then I'm fucking there with you because I looked at this and I'm like most of these aren't even things we should say

0:17:10 Thomas: You shouldn't even be asking a question about it yes

0:17:13 Tom: Yeah like this is just it's so nothing burger bullshit like as far as I'm concerned that you're just like all right and like there's things on here that I'm like yeah I wouldn't do

0:17:17 Thomas: Until there's one thing in particular on here that is very bad that's one of the lowest on the list that nobody cares about or sorry not many people care about it's it's just our priorities are all wrong I can't wait to talk about

0:17:37 Eli: So mystifying and I feel like whoever made this chart on the first page of the pew research feels the way we did like I think they may I they didn't have to order this chart from least crazy opinion to most crazy opinion and And somehow they managed to do it.

0:17:50 Tom: It all right so let's let's start at their top and this is where there's I think the greatest consensus I think this chart is is at greatest consensus down to lesser consensus which one do you start with thomas

0:18:01 Thomas: It yeah there's a couple different charts I'm trying to think I think the um grace can say well that's I don't know if that's grace consensus between well sorry consensus between there's republicans and democrats or are we just looking at everybody

0:18:13 Tom: I thinkthe top chart is is America smushed together

0:18:16 Eli: Yeah, the top chart is what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah.

0:18:18 Thomas: Okay okay if you guys are both into that one let's do it

0:18:19 Tom: America smooshed together all right, so let's go through these So percentage of people who say each of the following is morally wrong versus morally acceptable, it starts at the top. 90 % of people, married people having an affair. 90%. Of people say that is morally wrong. 7% say it's morally acceptable or not a moral issue.

0:18:30 Thomas: 90

0:18:31 Eli: 90%. Yeah.

0:18:41 Tom: And total of not morally wrong is 9%. Okay.

0:18:40 Thomas: Not a moral issue how is that not a moral issue like that's the that's the funniest category to me who are you asking the 7 % which is not like tiny that's they're like well it's not a moral issue that's what a fucking economic issue what is it it's a calendar issue

0:19:00 Eli: It's a scheduling issue, if anything.

0:19:02 Thomas: Yeah it's just scheduling issue yeah having

0:19:05 Tom: I actually, I would say that that is not a moral issue that is that would actually be my yeah yeah well hang on well here's why

0:19:08 Thomas: An affair that's not okay what is a moral issue

0:19:14 Eli: I'm having an affair. That's why.

0:19:17 Tom: The reasons why people have affairs are far more complicated and if you just sort of like lump it all into the action itself without considering any of the context around it then like it's not even really an interesting is you haven't said anything interesting I think it is one of those things that is very often mostly almost always wrong to do but I absolutely can see circumstances circumstances where it's like yeah all right it's at the very least ambiguous sometimes maybe even not

0:19:48 Thomas: Not sure that doesn't make it a moral moral issue, though. I feel like that's just you saying that there's different, and I think I agree that there are different reasons people might do it. I'm not a big morals guy, I guess, but that's one thing that's at least pretty relevant. Yeah.

0:20:03 Eli: He said, covered in blood.

0:20:05 Tom: Ambiguous so yeah I guess when I thought about this one I thought like yeah generally speaking I would say that it is morally wrong to have an affair like that is as a general yeah generally yeah I would I would be like yeah you made a fucking promise and then you decided not to do the thing you promised I think that's a problem but like I know that there are plenty of circumstances dances where I'm like, yeah, I mean, that sucks. That was a weird situation you were in. Like your fucking marriage was bad. Who am I to judge?

0:20:16 Thomas: I think that still makes it a moral issue in my book, I think. That's why I'm so confused. If someone asked me, morally wrong, having a fair versus not, I would say, yeah, it's morally wrong to have an affair. I think that's why we're all on board there. I don't know who would say it's not a moral issue. Maybe I'm not understanding, but what I think is funny is that is the thing that everybody's in line on. That's the most thing that anybody agrees on. And it's the thing I feel like, what percentage of people are doing that? Everybody? I feel it's everybody but Tom is having an affair right now, as we speak. No, it's a pretty high number. So it's kind of interesting to have something that so many many people yeah go ahead

0:20:38 Tom: But then I don't know how to answer the question is where I get stuck, right? It's having an affair.

0:21:08 Eli: It is everybody but Tom. It's crazy high. It's an amazing number. It's it's a crazy high number when you count the people who admit to it, let alone the the people think about all the people who aren't well well thank you girl at the mall next to aunt annie's pretzels why yes I am cheating on my wife and the mother of my job think about how high that number is versus the people whose she comes back from aunt annie pretzel's a little too quick for them to say yes everybody is cheating on their spouse

0:21:29 Thomas: Yeah and yet only me and eli are like well maybe

0:21:42 Tom: Everybody is cheating on their spouse. House.

0:21:45 Eli: He's doing

0:21:45 Thomas: If this is a thing that everybody thinks is wrong and yet everybody still does maybe there's some other solution needs to be in place I don't

0:21:52 Eli: Yeah now Can I say something brave. Gentlemen, in my experience, when men have an affair, 99 % of the time it's wrong. It's like, yeah, I mean, I'm not proud of it, but the chemo made her throw up all the time and her breath was really bad. So I fucked her sister.

0:21:55 Thomas: Know and it dragged me to Houston to get the fucking thing done so

0:22:13 Eli: Exactly. Yeah. You get it. Yeah, we just heard Tom before the recording turned on, but I would say a solid 50 % of the time the women in my life have had an affair and it counts as an affair. I'm hot take but I'm saying 50 of the time and I'm not counting the poly weirdos I'm not

0:22:22 Thomas: And it might be more than that This is Eli tempering his opinion Yeah, no, having an affair is different

0:22:31 Eli: Counting the ones who were like well our mutual agreement was that I would no longer put my toes into the hot tub when chrysanthemum was in there or whatever the fuck I'm talking about the people who were normies had normal marriages I'm seeing 50 of women who cheated it was like well you know he had stopped hitting me at christmas and that was you know when I had escaped with the kids I met someone at the battered women's shelter and we held hands before he died by cop so I don't know I've always felt like a chewed piece of gum since then like

0:22:58 Tom: Don't know about that. I dunno about that or know about that.

0:23:10 Eli: If they had genuinely separated this question for me into is it morally wrong for a woman to have an affair or is it morally wrong for a man to have an affair I would have had such different answers for the girl at Aunt Annie's Pretzels

0:23:24 Tom: My God. I didn't know about that?

0:23:25 Thomas: Definitely agree with that to some degree

0:23:27 Tom: I don t agree with that at all.

0:23:28 Eli: But speaking of a thing that everybody is doing that we're still somehow pretending we're not that brings us to next on the list something that 52 percent of America agree to be morally wrong viewing

0:23:32 Thomas: Oh yeah, come on yep

0:23:44 Tom: There's a long pause. Are you expecting me to fill in that next blank? I know you were.

0:23:46 Eli: Pornography

0:23:46 Thomas: I sorry I was actually I was realizing okay I want to provide the republican democrats split yeah no I think I want also I'm gonna I'm going to correlate here whatever with the compared to the republican democrat split that last one married people having an affair republicans 93 democrats 88 so like that's again just pretty universal now the pornography one Republicans 65 Democrats 39 still really high for Democrats like what that's crazy

0:23:51 Eli: Pornography yeah right

0:24:15 Tom: All right. So I'll take this one on. So I think that in a vacuum, there's nothing wrong with pornography. I don't care about it all. In a vacuum.

0:24:22 Eli: Oh that's the best

0:24:21 Thomas: That's some of my favorite stuff when she's stuck in a vacuum yeah oh

0:24:25 Eli: The positions they can do in space it's good

0:24:29 Tom: It's actually nothing to push off of. It's very difficult to get any friction.

0:24:30 Eli: Yeah what's hard is to get everyone there

0:24:32 Thomas: I was doing the vacuum attachment thing where you put that on yeah that's good

0:24:35 Tom: Oh, yeah. But I will say personally, I think that the pornography industry is so problematic that I actually don't think that you can functionally view pornography in a moral way.

0:24:35 Eli: Oh yeah no that one's much easier yeah Yeah.

0:24:49 Thomas: Yeah it's so outdated is there a pornography industry it's just only fans people who are like dear god please look at my naked body I want so badly for you to look at me it's like everybody's only fans

0:25:01 Tom: Yeah, personally, like, I think that you've got such a high bar to cross with pornography to feel really assured that the person is acting completely without coercion and of their own free will that, like I'm not sure how you cross that bar. So exactly.

0:25:30 Eli: Because even if they are right, but their company is not at one point, you know, we've talked about this before. Right. How many drops of sexual assaults are allowed in your swimming pool of pornography before it taints the whole thing? Now, Tom's a crazy person, so he says one. But I think it's funny to recognize the cognitive dissonance in myself, branding, because in my head, the excuse I make up for myself is, oh, well, when I say viewing pornography, ethnography I mean the most ethical version of it but I don't do that when I get down to the bottom of the list when it comes to eating meat right like when someone says is it moral to eat meat I'm not picturing like that guy in japan who has the farm where he spoils the cows and then when they die of natural causes he butchers them right right exactly so I think the thing that's really interesting to me about this question is whether people were answering because this is why why I think the number among democrats is so high whether people were answering about what's getting made in florida right now or just the act of viewing that's

0:26:11 Thomas: Now yeah yeah right however

0:26:12 Tom: You're thinking of a CAFO farm because that's the truth of it. Yeah, yeah.

0:26:30 Thomas: Oh no what's getting answered is it wrong for me to watch naked people it has none of what you guys are talking about has any bearing on this question in the average american's mind like they're not answering well I think it's wrong because the poor women.

0:26:46 Tom: Yeah, I think they're thinking of, oh, yeah,

0:26:47 Thomas: Oh, no, they're thinking of the Lord says I shouldn't be viewing naked people. That's what they're fucking. That'S what 98 % of these people are thinking. Yeah, there's no chance that people are. Did you say that's what Tom's think?

0:26:53 Eli: Possible that's

0:26:55 Tom: I'm sure most people have a religious objection to it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. No, I don't.

0:26:58 Eli: Certainly Tom's reason I said that's definitely tom's reason

0:27:03 Tom: Yeah, that's what Tom's at. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I am a one drop spoils the whole thing, especially with something that is so wildly inessential.

0:27:11 Thomas: Especially with blood and racism. He says that all the time.

0:27:15 Tom: No, no, no. Like to use your analogy before for something that ist just so wildly inessential, Ithink that it is entirely reasonable to say, hey, this is inessential so I should have a zero tolerance policy around sexual assault but you don't need

0:27:29 Thomas: Yeah. You know, that thing all humans do is literally the most popular thing that they say the internet is for yeah no

0:27:34 Eli: I was just about to say I've never been more offended than when Tom called porn inessential that's oh the Mona Lisa's just oil on paper isn't it tom

0:27:38 Tom: There was a world there was no world before porn that was just

0:27:44 Eli: A bad world

0:27:45 Thomas: There wasn't sure it wasn't I've seen the cave

0:27:46 Eli: Bad world

0:27:46 Tom: It's insane that you can't okay sure

0:27:50 Thomas: Etchings of the guy with the big wing which is if I lived in a cave first thing I would do

0:27:52 Tom: Porn in the way that everybody thinks of it you know like yeah I mean if we if

0:27:53 Eli: People just had to imagine centaur girls

0:27:57 Tom: We redefine it into absurdity yeah all right having an abortion 47 morally wrong that is a higher number than I would have thought lot.

0:27:58 Eli: It's crazy

0:28:06 Tom: 47 % morally wrong. I think everybody should get at least one. I'm just like, everybody should just get one, whether you want it or not.

0:28:05 Eli: It's crazy yeah

0:28:09 Thomas: Is that's the biggest split yeah so I'm I'm on the chart that's now this one's sorted by biggest split I think between republican to democrat so i'M ACTUALLY SEEING THERE'S ONE where it flips below so I guess it's not the biggest net split but this one is 71 republican 24 democrat that's about actually the republicans a little low I would have guessed the republican was like higher honestly

0:28:33 Tom: I am a little surprised by that, too.

0:28:34 Eli: Yeah why the fuck are you a republican if you're

0:28:37 Tom: Yeah, what does that party have?

0:28:37 Eli: If I'm really just in it because I hate poor people

0:28:40 Thomas: 24

0:28:41 Tom: I don't want to pay taxes, so I guess I'll vote over here. 24 % of Democrats still have an issue with abortion that is fascinating. I can't believe 47%, almost half. What's crazy to to me personally about that is is how revealing that is about the bubble that I live in because I don't know anybody at all in person that is part of my life that has an issue with abortion I don'T KNOW ANYBODY so

0:29:07 Thomas: So I I remember having a conversation with a girl at the state I worked with who was like I think there's a lot of people who have this impression that like well people People just do it for contraception and they just do it for fun. I think it's a stereotype or something that they, that has really, maybe it's sort of like almost like the welfare queen thing. Like, I think that kind of infected a lot of people where they think, well, well, there's these like, you know, there's, there's people not going to say, so I'm going to save a color. They are. Yeah, exactly. And I think, that's more common than, than maybe I would have thought like, cause this person was like pretty reasonable. Otherwise, like she wasn't like a Republican.

0:29:30 Eli: Yeah floozies floozies yeah

0:29:33 Tom: There's a bunch of people that believe the lies they've been told yeah right

0:29:43 Eli: But even then right when you concede that right when you do the sort of like well some people are just doing it for you know for fucking kicks and giggles because they because they like the free mints at Planned Parenthood. Right. Doesn't that imply that those people secretly believe that you're killing a baby? They just think you should be able to

0:29:52 Tom: Yeah I donT CARE IF IT'S SOMEBODY'S KINK I DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHY YOU DO

0:30:03 Eli: Kill a baby if it's a big enough inconvenience.

0:30:08 Thomas: Well, I think a lot of people, I think that is true, though. I think the philosophers would tell you it is that, actually, that. You should be able, if you get a fucking violinist attached to you, you should be able to kill that fucker. It's their fault they play the stupid violin. No, that's way

0:30:08 Tom: IT yeah right

0:30:21 Eli: Oh, no, this is he's going down Peter Singer Road. Don't ask him about consent. But he invented it. He invented lemon laws for babies. Movies.

0:30:27 Thomas: Broader than that. That's way more than Peter Singer. The violinist? No, it's what's her name?

0:30:34 Eli: My wife, she's a great violinist.

0:30:34 Thomas: It's a fucking yeah, my wife. Hold on. Violinist. Who was that again? It has been a long time since I have thought about that. Judith Jarvis Thompson. That's who it is. Yeah.

0:30:41 Tom: That name doesn't ring any bells for me

0:30:43 Eli: I feel like that's Peter Singer under a pseudonym.

0:30:43 Thomas: 1971. Oh yeah. If I rearrange the letters, it says Peterson.

0:30:54 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:30:57 Eli: Let's bum ourselves out. You ready for this next one?

0:30:59 Thomas: Yep.

0:31:00 Eli: 39 % of America think homosexuality is wrong. That's 40 people in a room of a hundred.

0:31:06 Tom: Morally wrong. That's weird what here's what I want I want to see this same poll taken 10 years ago and I feel like this is sharply drifted sharply drift drifted

0:31:22 Eli: Oh, it must have.

0:31:24 Thomas: It's actually something that I've, you know, it's important because the percentage viewing homosexuality out, well, I don't know if it's gay marriage. It might be gay marriage specifically, but the percentage was getting better and better. Like people were more and more cool with it since the decision. When was it? 2010? God, I can't remember now. But then until about 2019 or so, and then internet fucking fascism took over and now it's getting worse. So like more people have a problem with gay people. Like it's the fucking progress that was being made stopped and turned around because we live in an awful fucking world.

0:31:59 Eli: He managed to turn around fucking gay rights.

0:32:02 Thomas: And that's not even driven by Trump. I don't even think that's driven by Trump, it's driven by the movement

0:32:02 Eli: He hasn't even focused on that one.

0:32:06 Thomas: That's leading to Trump .I think it's more fundamental. He doesn't give a shit.

0:32:09 Tom: No he does not give a shit but it is the right wing drift 75

0:32:11 Eli: Well, no, because if you voted for Trump, you now have to be part of the media universe that also tells you homosexuality is wrong?

0:32:17 Thomas: Yeah, that's what I think. That's more fundamental. I think it's more like underlying it is that. And it's depressing. But I got a question for you. If you haven't looked, what do you think the Republican Democrat split is on this? If you hasn't looked.

0:32:30 Eli: Yeah, 90 -10.

0:32:32 Thomas: What do you thing, Tom? 59 -20. Yeah.

0:32:37 Eli: What?

0:32:39 Thomas: So when you look at that, having an abortion number now, it's like, OK, well, if 20 percent of Democrats. I don't know, man. I do. Don't know yeah yeah that

0:32:34 Tom: 25 what who are these democrats

0:32:45 Eli: Who are the, what are you voting for? Honestly, why are you on our side? I guess I'm glad you're there, but like, I don't know if you've seen our agendas lately, but they do not match up to yours.

0:32:56 Thomas: One's just plain weird I mean I could see I could see even answering having an abortion is morally wrong if you were like yeah but you still should be able to do it because you have the you know like I could I could even see people being like that but I can't there's no argument for homosexuality being morally there's nothing it's literally nothing

0:33:13 Eli: Nothing.

0:33:11 Tom: None at all I feel like a callback to the like having an affair like I would only care if somebody like genuinely like if somebody else has an affair I don't care I don't think they're a morally bad even though like I would fall on the I guess that's a morally wrong thing to do I don't care if somebody does it that's not to me right if if somebody hurts me I care if somebody does hurt somebody else I'm like well that wasn't my agreement sorry you didn't break it but like we're still friends like I'm not like not friends with you anymore because you broke an agreement with somebody else the idea that somebody is fucking somebody else and you're like well I think you you're using the wrong jet like what the fuck is wrong who gives a shit why is this any of your business at all like the pornography I have a stance on pornography because I worry about the harms of it. There are harms I can see.

0:33:55 Thomas: It's crazy.

0:34:01 Eli: But when I send him my stuff, he's like, please stop. That's true.

0:34:04 Tom: I can see the harms in it I can see them

0:34:08 Thomas: Some of the best parts. Yeah.

0:34:08 Tom: They're evident god

0:34:08 Eli: That's truth. I didn't know the glass was going to break, Tom.

0:34:12 Tom: All right this one patient ending their life with the help of a doctor euthanasia

0:34:18 Eli: Genuinely curious. What do the people who are against this think is happening?

0:34:24 Thomas: Yeah, what's the number? Sorry, did you say the number?

0:34:26 Tom: So the 35 percent of people believe that's morally wrong so more people are down with this by a little bit than homosexuality or abortion or pornography which all that's weird weird to me that's fucking weird because I can see my position is entirely unmoved by the argument but I have read arguments that are like hey you know like there are people who if the system were not really robust and well regulated could be pushed into a position where they're killing

0:35:00 Thomas: Now this is like the same with pornography, which I think is interesting. I don't know if this is a criticism necessarily, but I do think it's interesting that you tend to jump to the systemic thing. When you look at the question, I think you tend to be answering, is it morally just to have a system in which people can do X thing?

0:35:06 Eli: Are you okay with it if I film it and jerk off to it?

0:35:09 Tom: Themselves, yeah I guess I don't understand how else to

0:35:21 Thomas: Whereas the, oh, because I think the questions are very much meant for, and I think the majority of people take them as for you, Tom, would you view it like viewing pornography or that's what I think. Maybe I'm wrong. You can tell me if I'm right. Try them in. But I think that tends to be like, would you judge someone who did this? Yeah.

0:35:30 Tom: Not like do I want to live in a society that Oh, well then, the abortion people are lying because the abortion people like 47 out of 100 no because like the fucking abortion people like I know people they're just like well I fucking have them but they're wrong you can't have one yeah right

0:35:47 Thomas: Oh, they are lying. Well, you know, we saw that when they struck down roe every single fucking old republican lady was and I don't want to put it on you know ladies uh more than men but like they were the ones who were like oh wait but I did that like they all had had an abortion they're like I think yeah

0:36:05 Eli: No, but I wanted to be a congresswoman.

0:36:08 Tom: Yeah I literally was talking to it there's there's only like one republican person in my life that I know is a guy he's a subcontractor that works for me and he talks to me about this shit now and again and I remember sitting there with him and he's like well you know like when Melissa and I were younger. He's an older guy. He's like, well, Melissa and I were younger. We were pro-choice. But now that we've gotten a little older, now we've come to realize. And I'm like, Bob, so when it was a threat to you and something you would have to contend with, then you had a view that preserved your rights. And now that is something you don't have to deal with. Now you have a view that is different than that. And he sort of was like, yeah, I guess so.

0:36:28 Thomas: Yeah. So true. He's like, also, when I wasn't making money, I believed in equality. But now that I'm making money. Fuck. Fuck the poor.

0:36:49 Tom: Yeah. It was one of those things was like, you said it out loud, Bob. Like what the shit?

0:36:54 Thomas: Yeah. So I think most people would be answering in the form of like, if you did or if someone you knew did it, would you like be judgmental of them? I don't think it. I don't think most people think. Maybe I'm wrong. I certainly with Republicans. I know Republicans don't give a shit. They just are like, no, it's the Lord says no on the gay broadly. Yeah, I do. I do think so. I think I think that you like, I don't know. That's my feeling. But I could be wrong.

0:37:13 Tom: So I'm just thinking too broadly and institutionally. Okay.

0:37:22 Eli: I think that for the majority of America, us not included, moral questions are ones about personal choice and personal consequence.

0:37:29 Thomas: Yeah. Or like think about religious people. I mean, I think for most people, because what percentage of people believe in God, like in fucking 90 or so? I think for most people this question is, do you think God would be mad at you for doing this? I actually think that's pretty much what people are thinking.

0:37:43 Eli: Right, they've matched that in their head, yeah.

0:37:43 Tom: Shit. Okay, I'll try to think differently, but I don't know how.

0:37:43 Thomas: Yeah yeah. And so the split on this one, well, no, it's still interesting. It's still interesting.

0:37:51 Eli: Now, I think God would be mad if I became homosexual because I would ruin their numbers. I think he would hate... The gays are his most precious children. I don't think he wants me up there in the mix.

0:37:58 Thomas: I I think other gay men would be mad at me if I became homosexual. They'd be like, dude, we don't need you.

0:38:06 Eli: No, thank you. I'm fine.

0:38:06 Thomas: We're not, you know, like we were fine. We were happy. We were okay. We were doing. Sure.

0:38:06 Tom: I don't know about mad, but indifferent. I think I would get a lot of indifference, you know, just a lot of, yeah.

0:38:13 Eli: That guy's testosterone is way too high. Get the fuck out of here.

0:38:22 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:38:24 Tom: All Right. The death penalty, 34% view this as morally wrong.

0:38:30 Thomas: I'm glad more people think viewing pornography is wrong than the death penalty. Sure, I'm glad that we live in a society where more people are worried about that than the state killing people.

0:38:40 Tom: Okay. So I don't, I'm not trying to push too hard on you on your observation from before, but I genuinely don't know how to think about the death penalty outside of an institutional consideration. I don't know what to do. Thoughts.

0:38:49 Eli: Is it okay for you to kill a guy?

0:38:49 Thomas: Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point, yeah. That is fair, that is fair.

0:38:55 Tom: Well, I guess like, I don't want to be death -penaltied. Like, I'll bring it back to me. I don't want to be death-penaltied, so yeah, yeah, no, I know. I'm just laughing.

0:39:00 Thomas: You know what, I will acknowledge that one is one where it is really hard to separate the system from the thing. That, that, that good point and I think a lot of the arguments too are around the system whereas I don't think for like, you know, for fucking homosexuality that's not the argument like nobody's thinking in terms of like that yeah

0:39:17 Eli: It's honestly, it's the way that homosexuality is enacted. Like if I knew the right people Look, we can all agree that there are a couple guys out there who are allowed to be gay Okay, we're not talking about that we're talking about an imperfect system where way more people end up gay what if someone accidentally turns gay you can't take that

0:39:21 Thomas: Yeah, it's the homosexual industrial complex

0:39:23 Tom: I'll say,

0:39:32 Thomas: That yeah we're talking about an industry of gay people oh god but that's what they do say about trans people oh my god that wasn't even a joke when it comes to that ah never

0:39:44 Eli: Back

0:39:48 Tom: Like, all of my objections to the death penalty are institutional. Like I don't have, like a moral objection to, like if somebody did an awful thing and they got killed, I'm like yeah as long as I'm a hundred percent but I just don't believe in the hundred percent so I'm anti you know but

0:39:57 Thomas: Mind yeah I used to think that yeah I used to think I actually think I'm with you mostly but I'm not sure I think I've recently maybe I also think that nobody really has the right to do that like I think there are people who probably deserve to be killed but I don't think anyone has the rights to kill anyone you know what I mean yeah

0:40:22 Tom: I think that's an interesting point of dissection because like I agree with that and to me that's an institutional issue because then it's like okay, well who's doing this killing you know

0:40:31 Thomas: I think I'm saying I thought it was an institutional thing until I realized that no matter how this institution were set up, I don't think I would agree. You know what I mean?

0:40:39 Tom: So like even in the idea of like the magic solution like the magic pill or the magic like there's a magic institution that gets everything a hundred percent of the time right

0:40:46 Thomas: Yeah. It's more like, I just don't, I don't know. I don't think other humans should have, I mean, maybe, okay. Maybe if you come up with a, with a hypothetical where it's literally, they're always guilty and they're the worst, like child murderers, then I think maybe I'd be with you. Yeah.

0:40:47 Tom: Then you would still say nobody still

0:41:01 Thomas: So maybe, and it would be, it would be way narrowed, but I agree with you that it's hard to answer this one in a vacuum without the institution. Cause it matters what people are being killed for, how they're being convicted. Yeah.

0:41:10 Tom: It's like all that matters, yeah Yes, yeah, right

0:41:12 Thomas: Like I could, if the question is, is there a person you could conceive of that probably deserves to be shot? Yes.

0:41:19 Tom: Yeah like if because on a personal level like if somebody broke into my house and they killed everybody in my house that I love, right and they left their id and they left some dna and they said, 'Hi, my name is frank frankerson as they left right you know and like, and I have their face on my ring cam, right. And they confessed and they had it on, you know, like, so, okay. So they had every piece of evidence. Like me personally, would I want to see them dead? Yeah. A hundred percent. Do I want the state to do it? No, I can't trust the state institutionally,

0:41:33 Eli: They introduce themselves on the way out hey

0:41:39 Thomas: They drop their card if you need any more of your family killed. Yeah, exactly.

0:41:54 Tom: But as for Tom Curry personally? Yeah. I'd like to do that. I'd do it myself. You know?

0:41:58 Eli: Well and thank you Tom you you're just about to bring up my point. And I know I've said this on the air before, but I think we are missing a major opportunity with the death penalty right now. Right. Cause right now we have this 30 year long process.

0:42:07 Thomas: Oh, great. That's all the time we have.

0:42:10 Eli: That's a giant waste of money, giant waste to time. Innocent people die all the time. And then when we finally get one, right. Remember that guy who killed the college students, like snuck into their house while they were asleep and murdered them. And then he instantly

0:42:22 Thomas: There's so many of that. I can't remember.

0:42:24 Tom: I remember that. Yeah. Mm -hmm.

0:42:24 Eli: Got caught that guy. Like that's when we got to let the families get involved. Because that would be because look the only reason we're having a death penalty is because of our perverted sense of justice right which we're already wrong about so why are we not doing it fun we're doing the least fun version that sister who was like if she'd been awake she would have kicked your ass give her a big spiky mace and let her do it what oh because that would be morally wrong no we're all ready wrong let's get duane the rock johnson as a guest cast executioner to hit him with a flamethrower when everyone else is done I don't understand why we're not going full lady v if we as a society are gonna have the coliseum why did we make it boring why are we why are мы feeding people to the lions one bite at a time behind a plaid curtain you know what I'm saying see

0:43:16 Tom: All right what about gambling 29 % 29 % morally wrong

0:43:19 Thomas: God, gambling. Who cares? You know what I mean? Like, ah, that's how is that close to these other ones? You know?

0:43:27 Eli: Because here's the interesting thing the people who are doing most of the gambling shouldn't be doing it

0:43:32 Thomas: Yeah. But it's not because it's morally wrong.

0:43:36 Tom: I don't think it's morally wrong but I do think it should be illegal yeah I think it Should Be Illegal yeah

0:43:37 Thomas: It's just bad for you. It sort of like, so like this, would you answer is smoking morally wrong? I'd be like, well, not really, but it's you shouldn't do it. Like, I like gambling is like smoking probably yeah so

0:43:45 Tom: Right exactly yeah right I'm right there with you like I I don' t think there's anything morally wrong with gambling I 100 % think it Should Be Illegal though like it's bad for society

0:43:55 Thomas: If somebody answers that's not a moral question to gambling actually I'm with them on that that's like actually oh actually there is quite a few okay 50 of people I guess said that's non -immoral issue okay all right I like that

0:44:05 Tom: It's not a moral question I I agree with that. Yeah. I'm right there with them. All right.

0:44:08 Thomas: But I when you look at the numbers compared to what is next on the

0:44:13 Clip: DEAR OLD DAD

0:44:19 Eli: And listener you'll find out what's next on the list but you've got to wait a week in the meantime before we go the other day my wife asked me why do you always walk in front of me and I said I'm sorry I don't follow you my

0:44:33 Thomas: List I don't

0:45:24 Eli: Testosterone is so low that fucking me counts as gender affirming care for trans women

0:45:30 Thomas: Think you need to know that I think just scrub Rub -a -dub -dup.

0:45:33 Tom: If you sleep as little as I do, your body will also, in a vacuum, there's nothing wrong with pornography.

0:45:37 Thomas: Die.

0:45:39 Eli: I don'T know how you get away with having a beautiful mouth like this in the village

0:45:46 Thomas: That's some of my favorite stuff. It's their fault they play the stupid violin.

0:45:55 Eli: The mona lisa's just oil on paper isn't it tom check it in check it out rick oh no we have an ending to our show I donT know why I I thought I needed to do an outro. I, I completely forgot, forgot what our, how our show goes one moment before we go.

0:46:01 Thomas: Yeah, that was really weird. Yeah. I wanted to see where it went. Yeah. Mm -hmm.

0:46:02 Tom: What was happening there? I was kind of curious what was going to happen. I was goingto let it play out.