WTW118: The Trump Administration Is Being Really Weird About Milk...

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:42 Thomas: Hello, and welcome to Where There's Woke. I'm Thomas. That over there is Lydia. How you doing?

0:00:47 Lydia: Oh, I'm feeling a little parched. Feeling a little perched.

0:00:48 Thomas: Feeling a little parched. We'll get some water before we start recording. Are you a professional or are you a fucking amateur? Yeah. All right, I'll pause the recording.

0:00:51 Lydia: Yeah. But I'm not in the mood for water. I'm in the mood for milk. Said no one ever. No one ever!

0:01:00 Thomas: Yeah. In fact, the famous quote is, milk was a bad choice. Yes.

0:01:03 Lydia: Milk was a bad choice. But today, I want to talk about it. I want to talk milk because did you know? Did you know that whole milk is racist? But here's the thing.

0:01:16 Thomas: Sorry. I should have said, no, you got to specify. Everything's racist ultimately. Like instead of six degrees of Kevin Bacon, it's like one degree of American racism. Like it's just like one to two or is it zero? Like if it's directly, so like if you are Kevin Bacon is at one degree or zero degrees. Oh, okay. So then I would amend what I just said to zero to one, One, sometimes two in terms of racism in anything in America.

0:01:22 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. I I think it's zero degrees.

0:01:41 Lydia: Yes. Here's the thing, though. It is insane, apparently, for us to view milk and its history as problematic and potentially aligned with racism. Yeah. So there's a big old hubbub that has been happening. Props to the person who wrote this headline in the New York Post, because I kind of like it. I kind OF LIKE IT. It says utter nonsense. U -D -D E -R.

0:01:49 Thomas: Or to even ask the question. Yeah. The New York Post? Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. Okay. I was going to say, if we're going to give the literal devil their due, it's got to be better than utter nonsense. I'm sorry. That's... Look, I guess you haven't seen very many milk headlines. That's old hat for me.

0:02:07 Lydia: No, I thought it was funny. Whatever. Yeah. So utter nonsense. Woke NYC professor.

0:02:19 Thomas: Here we go. Yeah.

0:02:19 Lydia: So you're hitting like all the buzzwords. Woke NYC professor. Jeez.

0:02:23 Thomas: I really do think they have sort of like in Microsoft Word, the templates, they just have this already. You know what I mean? They're like, hey, it's a it's a mad lib. It's a woke lib. Yeah.

0:02:27 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was going to say it's those it's like generators where you would create like your rap name or whatever, you know, like they just kind of have a generator that spits us out. Yeah? Yeah. Makes claim that whole milk is racist. And we'll get into the article after the break and everything.

0:02:36 Thomas: Yeah. Professor from city thinks that, you know, from liberal city things. Yeah. You

0:02:48 Lydia: But I just wanted to tease everybody with that. We're gonna be be talking about milk today. There's a lot going on in the world, you know, like, let's lighten the mood a little bit.

0:02:53 Thomas: Know. Yes, we're going to talk about this. I don't mean to shut you down in any way. I will say that if it were ever the case that we're like shit, we need to you know we're out sick, you know like for some reason we can't record. You could start that and then I could say, oh, OK, here I already have the ending for you. I haven't looked this up. It's Lydia's research. Did he not really say that? But also milk is actually racist. There is a troubling history. Like that's always it's always what it's going to be. Yeah, you're right. I can't just spoil the show. The show is going to Be they didn't say that. But also even if he had said that it would probably be more correct

0:03:12 Lydia: That's Our show, though. You can't say that. It's

0:03:24 Thomas: Than not. Yeah. So no, don't, everyone. I didn't say that, don't worry. I didn't just spoil the entire format of every single episode of our show, but that's, that's the entire form out of every single episode. Our fascist government, our news environment, you know, it's every single one.

0:03:24 Lydia: Reasonable. Yeah, please still listen. Yeah, but I have some, like, little fun clips we're gonna listen to. Um, yeah. Oh yeah.

0:03:41 Thomas: Oh yeah, I have a clip for you. Oh, oh, I was gonna ask, does this have anything to do with the truly, truly disturbing video I saw of RFK Jr. and Kid Rock? Cuz they drank milk. Okay, aligned with

0:03:52 Lydia: It is aligned with that. So it all stems from, not getting too far ahead, it all stems from the fact that Trump just signed the Whole Milk for Healthy Kids Act because He wants to make whole milk great again, is the tagline there. And we'll get into that. But that's something he signed on January 14th. And so we have seen a huge increase in the number of propaganda pieces coming out of the White House that are like the Got Milk campaign of the 90s in early 2000s.

0:04:06 Thomas: It Yeah, sure. Yeah.

0:04:27 Lydia: And RFK is one of those people, shirtless in jeans.

0:04:26 Thomas: That Workout video. Truly the stuff of nightmares, like I, I mean, yeah, it's like, it's beyond funny, it's beyond. I, like, I can't even really mock it. It's more like I'm in a horror movie, and it's not horror like, "Oh, knife," you know, like, it like psychological terror like, truly, I couldn't come up with that as a nightmare. Like, that's how good it is.

0:04:33 Lydia: Oh, it's traumatizing. Mm -hmm. Mm -huh. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's fair.

0:04:52 Thomas: All right, right, well, we'll get to the, uh, the part where it's the professor didn't say that, and also we did, he was right after this break. Support us pointing out how every single fucking anti-woke story is the same propaganda bullshit, because we need to, the reason that it never ends is because we haven't ended it yet, and we, we needto keep going. And if you'd like us to keep going, please support the show: patreon .com slash where there's woke. More importantly, please share the show with somebody. Buddy, just share it. Tell them, "Hey, do you want to know why every news story is wrong every single time?" And they're like, "Do I?" Or something. I don't know. You could come up with a better way to pitch it to you. It's your friends. Why am I coming up with the script for your friends? You could do a better job.

0:05:08 Lydia: And everybody's so annoying. Mm -hm. Mm, yeah. Exactly. Exactly." Before

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0:05:42 Lydia: We do the article, I have to talk about milk for a second, just milk in general. I have never liked milk. I don't like dairy milk. I think it's gross and disgusting. I don't like it with cookies or anything. I will have milk with cereal. I Will have half and a half with coffee trying to think if there's anything else related to milk.

0:06:00 Thomas: Is this important? Like, are you, you're, like, getting your, these are, like, your, um, conflicts or whatever. Like, yeah, I have once associated with milk, but it was in my youth.

0:06:06 Lydia: Yeah, exactly. But you like milk with cookies.

0:06:14 Thomas: Is it fair to say that? I have also a kind of a revulsion to cow's milk, except that I like half and half of my coffee. There's no, there isn't anything good enough to replace half and a half in coffee for me. There just isn't. Yeah. Or it just doesn't taste good. Like I just truly, I wish there was something, if science designed something, I'd be happy. Also, there's a few, like actual ice cream, I really, really love.

0:06:25 Lydia: Everything else separates in a weird way when it hits the heat of the coffee. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah cheese, but like if it's made into a solid anything involving milk to cook or to bake or anything I don't mind that I'm just saying like the drink like the liquid by itself

0:06:38 Thomas: That's gotten better. Yeah. Cheese ice cream is really good. Hmm.

0:06:48 Thomas: The drink. Yeah, it's okay. But I've, I've found that I can actually totally live with the full fat kind of, oh, actually either of them, but I do kind of like the full fat for a nice treat. The oat milk. Actually, it is really good. I actually, that replaced my, I can have that if I'm having something where I want actual milk, like milk and cookies, or for some reason for me, when I have like peanut butter, like a peanut butter something. Sometimes I'll make a peanut butter thing, or sometimes if I'm feeling extra special, I'll make a Peanut Butter and Nutella sandwich, and that demands milk. Demands milk.

0:07:25 Thomas: But the oat milk works great. I actually like the oat milk more. So we're good. So, we've declared our allegiances.

0:07:02 Lydia: Oh yeah yeah uh -huh oh wow yeah interesting interesting yeah okay all right good yes we are

0:07:32 Thomas: We're good, yeah.

0:07:32 Lydia: Clear in this house about where cow milk stands. Okay, so this article in the New York Post, as I mentioned, President Trump just recently signed the Whole Milk for Healthy Kids Act. That was January 14th. This article came out because of an article that came out in between where a professor of bioethics at New York University kind of went after the Whole Milk for Healthy Kids Act, so they say. We'll get into what he said specifically, but just wanted to lay down this timeline a little bit. So this article starts out, I have to say it, I have to say, holy cow, now even milk is racist. Is, you hate this so much. Oh, I

0:08:11 Thomas: It's just not, I don't hate it except that you praised it. That's like, that's like you complimenting some guy that I think is a douchebag and I'm trying to play it cool. Oh yeah, this is music. That good though? It kind of sounds shitty to me. Like, he's not very good at, is he that funny? I don't, I don't, I haven't really laughed. I mean, yeah, sure. Yeah, because I hate it.

0:08:14 Lydia: Praised. Utter. I Yeah, so you're getting, like, jealous of this New York Post journalist, in quotes, right now.

0:08:35 Thomas: So much, and it's not impressive. Like, I would, I would give the devil their due, except it's C minus. Milk puns and cow puns, give me something, something good. Oh

0:08:35 Lydia: Yeah. Okay, okay. All right, all right. Well, we'll see what you come up with for the show notes for this one. Yeah, yeah, here we go. Competition. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm making you do the work. So this journalist goes on, "The bipartisan push to put whole milk back on school menus is rife with secret racial meaning and smacks of bigoted messages," a lefty-lipped college professor whined.

0:08:47 Thomas: Wow. Okay, this is you tricking me. This is you whitewash-fence me into doing the work.

0:09:06 Thomas: Yeah, a lefty. What, lefty?

0:09:08 Lydia: Lefty -lipped, L -I -P -P E -D.

0:09:10 Thomas: Lipped. Does that mean his lips are left

0:09:13 Lydia: I don't know. I had to look up this journalist because part of me was like, is this a fake person?

0:09:17 Thomas: -handed? Lefty-lipped. It might.

0:09:20 Lydia: Like, as I read that, no, well, if it's a fake person, because we live in 2026, yeah, this person has a LinkedIn and they, right, well I mean she has a picture of herself, supposed picture.

0:09:22 Thomas: Be, I, like, you, you're about to, no, it's not, well, or it's Just been AI longer than, yeah, it's been AI longer than I've checked. Oh, well, that proves it. It, yeah, they can't. Hey, I can't do pictures. You're

0:09:41 Lydia: She asserts that she has an EMT certification and I feel like that would be a weird thing for AI to do.

0:09:41 Thomas: Right. Weirdly Yeah, no, weirdly that is the first thing that's been like, okay, maybe that, all right, maybe you got me there. Yeah, yeah. I

0:09:49 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, that feels like more human, right? All right, Turing test. So this professor that she's railing on is named Arthur Kaplan. And she says that he says he's claiming that whole milk has become a symbol for white supremacists.

0:10:05 Thomas: Feel like it probably has though. If I were to guess, like, I'm just, again, I don't, I don't know, I haven't seen the trick ahead of time that you're doing.

0:10:08 Lydia: Yes. So my first big point here is that, and I'll get into this in a bit, but this is not a new conversation. We have been talking about milk being a symbol for white supremacy for at least nine years. But in my research with this, it's been a lot longer. Really, really, really long time that there's actually been a connection between race and whole milk and Milk in general. Yeah, yeah. And we'll get into that history, it's super interesting, super fascinating. But at the very least, this is not a problem of 2026, this is a problem, this is something that we've been talking about for a while.

0:10:29 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, wow.

0:10:42 Thomas: Like an actual one? Yeah, yeah.

0:10:59 Thomas: I feel like Like this is, even this has been, like you say, like we've done this news cycle before, I think.

0:11:05 Lydia: Yeah. "Kaplan's efforts," so the author, author, Arthur Kaplan, who we'll talk about his piece in a minute, "efforts to take the left's battle against American traditions into the dairy aisle was quickly stomped under the hooves of some serious bovine backlash." You hate this person so much.

0:11:18 Thomas: Okay. No, that doesn't, that does not make sense. So were the cows backlashing? There is not bovine backlash. That is nothing.

0:11:24 Lydia: The cow, well, unless the left are cows.

0:11:28 Thomas: This is so bad. You are right. I think AI would do better.

0:11:31 Lydia: "Our government is taking bold steps to strengthen school nutrition, including the Whole Milk for Healthy Kids Act, which would bring whole milk back to school cafeterias," a U.S. Department of Agriculture spokesperson told the Post. "To suggest otherwise is completely false." And here we go, some more puns for you, hun. Still, Kaplan beefed that the ability to guzzle whole milk has become a sign of strength and genetic health and used to mock non-whites. "Utter nonsense," blasted fellow bioethicist Wesley J. Smith.

0:11:46 Thomas: Okay. Oh, see, it was not even, it is, you take your compliment back.

0:12:01 Lydia: I do, actually, when it's used in the headline and also in the piece itself. That's not, not good. No, it's not. It's not quoting. No.

0:12:06 Thomas: Well, yeah, and it is quoting someone. So like, no? What did you just say? What did, yeah. Blasted the, oh

0:12:11 Lydia: It says utter nonsense blasted. No so this is the person's characterization of the response from this other bioethicist. No no that's

0:12:16 Thomas: I thought you were quoting them. Okay, how am I to know. Utter nonsense, is that funny? If you made a big stand and it's like, it is

0:12:20 Lydia: Fair. That's fair. This is not a visual medium. He writes in response, Wesley J. Smith writes, quote, yeah Yeah, quote, "One of the honored guests at the Oval Office signing ceremony of the Whole Milk for Healthy Kids Act, mentioned in passing by Kaplan, which put whole milk back on school menus, was, was that notorious white supremacist Dr. Ben Carson," he sarcastically wrote in an article for National Review. And then, quote, one of the early sponsors was Senator John Fetterman, a famous KKK sympathizer.

0:12:43 Thomas: Right. Well You just named two Republicans. Yeah.

0:12:52 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Quote, seriously, this is idiotic. Sometimes whole milk is just whole milk, said Smith.

0:12:59 Thomas: Sometimes, but not, not now.

0:13:01 Lydia: So I was interested in this because this is like bioethicist versus bioethicsist, the way that it's sort of framed at the end. So So I was like, well, I'm going to look up Arthur Kaplan in a bit as I'm like looking through his article itself, because I do want to know who he is. Who's this Wesley J. Smith that they cite as another, you know, pretty well -known bioethicist?

0:13:06 Thomas: Is it? Yeah. Yeah. Is he part of the MAGA cow alliance of

0:13:24 Lydia: Yeah, so this freaking guy, he is well known for his blog, Human Exceptionalism, hosted by National Review, which advances his theory of human exceptionalism and defends intrinsic human dignity. He's a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute's Center on Human Exceptionalism.

0:13:34 Thomas: What a great name, then. I write away like, oh, I just defend human. I write a blog where I defend human dignity. Do you? Because I don't know. I'm already suspicious. Is that going to mean like race science or something?

0:13:51 Lydia: Yeah, I think it's like one step removed. He is a very, very outspoken critic against animal rights. Against animal rights because humans are exceptional and animals deserve to be used. Yeah, yeah. He defends factory farming. He thinks that's good because humans aren't exceptional and these are things that are our right.

0:14:01 Thomas: Against animal rights? Oh, wow. You know what? I should have predicted that. That's on me because that's brilliant. Okay. I love that. Oh, my God. This is incredible.

0:14:18 Thomas: Sorry. So if something's exceptional, it gets to do whatever the fuck it wants. Boy, I sure hope we never find another animal that's more exceptional than us because then we're fucked. They just get to do Whatever They Want.

0:14:22 Lydia: Yeah. Honestly, I saw it include criticism of animal rights. I'm like, oh, like it's gone too far.

0:14:34 Thomas: Yeah, the same like PETA bullshit.

0:14:34 Lydia: Like, you know, some some certain. Right. Exactly. No, he is anti animal rights, anti.

0:14:42 Thomas: Anti -animal rights.

0:14:44 Lydia: That's crazy.

0:14:44 Thomas: Yeah, usually they just disguise their view by saying, well, I'm just tired of, you know, PETA going too far. And like you say,

0:14:49 Lydia: Right, right. Right. So no, this guy has incredibly strong opinions about how animals should be used for whatever we need as humans. So he's always going to come down on a particular lane when it comes to animal byproducts. I feel like he has a conflict of interest when it come to talking about milk. Yeah.

0:14:58 Thomas: Wow. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Just cards on the table. I fucking hate animals. I hope they all die.

0:15:13 Lydia: A sociologist reviewed his book called, it's called A Rat is a Pig is a Dog is a Boy. And I don't, I have no idea. I haven't I have no clue. No clue.

0:15:20 Thomas: Okay. What? Is a boy? Sorry, is a boy.

0:15:27 Lydia: Is a boy.

0:15:28 Thomas: So does he also think we can factory farm our boys like our what? Like I was already going to laugh at like it's kind of dumb, but then is a Boy really, really threw me for I don't is he?

0:15:32 Lydia: I don't know. I have No Idea What This Title Means. Maybe? Children?

0:15:42 Thomas: Is he also, his next step is like, "Yes, plus we can do what we want to young boys, because that wouldn't be the first time." Okay, oh.

0:15:49 Lydia: Yeah. I don'T know. So the negative review that I saw related to this isn't specific to boy. Maybe he's saying animal rights activists think that all of those animals are equivalent to a boy?

0:16:04 Thomas: Why a boy though? Like, is it that, I don't know, man, I'm... that's weird. A boy, that's a weird language. Yeah, I just... a boy. Okay.

0:16:07 Lydia: Yeah. Well, if any of our listeners have read this book or know more about it, yeah, let us know. But a sociologist reviewed it, John Sorenson, and said it was a misleading bad faith compendium of anti -animal rights propaganda based on a single idea, human exceptionalism, his brand, right? He says that Smith ignores the negative environmental effects of factory farming, including habitat destruction and loss of biodiversity from deforestation. And then a philosopher, Angus Taylor, said that Smith has, quote, little familiarity with the large range of literature on the moral status of animals.

0:16:27 Thomas: Yeah.

0:16:47 Thomas: Yeah, read a book.

0:16:47 Lydia: So he's just, I don't know, what kind of guy, what kind of a person is going to be like that intense?

0:16:52 Thomas: Someone paid by the cow murdering lobby of... yeah. Either he's a psychopath or he's paid by big animal killing, or both. No one just is like, "No, it's just what I do, man. I just really want to advocate that we hurt animals more." I don't know.

0:16:55 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, mm -hmm, yeah. Man.

0:17:11 Thomas: I was bored and that's... Yeah.

0:17:14 Lydia: In other news, he also is opposed to assisted suicide, euthanasia, human cloning.

0:17:16 Thomas: Okay. More like on -brand stuff of like, oh, we're so special that you can't do anything like that.

0:17:25 Lydia: Yeah, like you don't want to mess with nature?

0:17:29 Thomas: Success. Yeah.

0:17:29 Lydia: I don'T know, like the way that it would be? Who knows? Anyway, yeah

0:17:33 Thomas: Well, there's no motivation for it that is logical except Christianity. That's all it is. He will end up being a Christian. Oh, yeah, yeah. Right. I already got there. Okay.

0:17:39 Lydia: Right. Right. Hence the Discovery Institute, right? Yeah. Yeah. So when I saw that, I was like, okay, so all of his criticism for Arthur Kaplan's piece, I'm throwing it out. This guy is nothing to me.

0:17:50 Thomas: Yeah. He's dead to me. Tell him.

0:17:53 Lydia: Dead to me, exactly. He's like an animal to me if I'm going to put it in terms that he gets. Jeez, yeah. And so then I was, like, okay, let me look into this Arthur Kaplin guy. Like, let me see who's this guy going to be.

0:17:57 Thomas: Wow. Harsh, huh? Oh, is this the professor?

0:18:06 Lydia: This is the woke NYC professor.

0:18:06 Thomas: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, the wokest. He's left -lipped. Did you get a...

0:18:11 Lydia: Left-lipped. I'm not seeing it in the picture. His lip looks pretty lippy, pretty normal-lipped.

0:18:12 Thomas: Yeah. Is there a picture where his lip is left -handed? Lefty -lipped. That's a new one. Lefty lipped. I do think, again, I think AI would do better. I think that is a tell, like AI. I think it would make sense more, like, I don't know if AI knows how to be wrong in those ways, or I could be wrong, I'm just AI, so I could lefty lip piece of shit.

0:18:19 Lydia: Yeah. Mm. Hmm. Yeah, yeah, interesting. So this guy, as I mentioned, he is a professor of bioethics at New York University, and he is known for specifically helping to found the National Marrow Donor Program, um, yeah. Yeah. Creating the system for distributing organs in the United States, advising

0:18:52 Thomas: What an asshole, fucking creep, gross. You're into organs, you sicko, typical. And fucking

0:19:01 Lydia: On the content of the National Organ Transplant Act of 1984, creating rules governing living organ donation, and then various things involving blood safety. A really interesting education. Did undergrad in philosophy at Brandeis University and then did graduate work at Columbia. Got a master's in 73 and then a master'S in philosophy in 75.

0:19:12 Thomas: Kids. No, I'm just kidding. Oh man.

0:19:27 Thomas: Wow, he's that good at 73, he's like into... oh, sorry. That's how the math ones work, they're like, "I pick a number and I've specialized in the number 73." It's very interesting.

0:19:31 Lydia: Yes, the master's is in 73. That number. Yeah, and then he got a PhD in the history and philosophy of science in 1979, which sounds so cool to me. I was like, I don't think that exists anymore. Uh

0:19:47 Thomas: Yeah. Well, it's probably way more interesting now. It does exist. Yeah, it does exists, but, but yeah, 73. So there's way more. Oh, 79. Yeah.

0:19:54 Lydia: Yeah, 79 was when he got his PhD.

0:19:57 Thomas: He's probably writing the books on that now. Okay. So basically the antithesis of everything this other piece of shit was. Okay.

0:19:59 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yes, this person seems like such a cool dude. So he organized back in the, like, late 80s. Yeah.

0:20:13 Thomas: Organized organ donor. I get it. I see what you're doing. You're trying to compete with the New York Post.

0:20:17 Lydia: He organized the Center for Bioethics Conference on Medical Ethics and the Holocaust. And so it was the first conference that ever talked about bioethics in the Holocaust conferences.

0:20:23 Thomas: Oh, wow. Yeah, there weren't any really.

0:20:29 Lydia: Oh, oh, you mean back then?

0:20:31 Thomas: Bioethics and the Holocaust. I'd be like, here's my paper I've written. They didn't have any. They Didn't Have Any Ethics. There was no no ethics.

0:20:32 Lydia: Oh, yes. I see what you're saying. I thought you meant that there weren't any conferences regarding it. Okay. Yes. Pretty short conference.

0:20:39 Thomas: That sounds like someone's easy idea for a term paper. Yeah. Oh, I did my dissertation on the ethics they had, the Nazis had. None.

0:20:47 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But he has written extensively on it. So I think kind of dissecting.

0:20:49 Thomas: Wow. That's some really depressing stuff. I can't read that stuff. It's too horrifying.

0:20:55 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, I know. I know he is responsible for securing the first apology for the Tuskegee syphilis study. That was in 1991. And he went on to work with others.

0:21:03 Thomas: Oh wow. Huh. Yeah, because Clinton, I think, based on... Oh, Jenessa did some Tuskegee stuff I remember I was looking at, and I think Clinton might have have done some sort of apology or reconciliation. Yeah, right?

0:21:10 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. So the secretary of health and human services at the time, Louis Sullivan, was responsible for issuing the apology. And so I think it was with those conversations with Arthur Kaplan. He worked with others in 2012 to get an apology from the German Medical Association for the role of German physicians in Nazi prison experiments during the Holocaust. I can't believe it didn't happen until 2012.

0:21:22 Thomas: Oof.

0:21:33 Thomas: Wow, that, because usually, yeah, yeah, Germany is usually, they kind of were like, we can't even say Nazi or whatever, like that. Yeah, so this is surprising.

0:21:41 Lydia: Oh, they've owned it completely, too. They're like, you're going to know the dark history in our past because this is never happening again. This is like a dark stain in our country or on our country.

0:21:47 Thomas: Hmm, yeah. But maybe it was just like a niche, they're not niche, but like a particular thing that no one had drawn attention to before, maybe, you know, in their way. Yeah.

0:21:57 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, it could be. He helped develop the first flu vaccine mandate at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and then worked on New York State's policy to require health care workers to vaccinate or mask. This is back in 2009. Then he went to New York University in 2012, was the founding director of the Division of Bioethics for their School of Medicine. He's a cool guy.

0:22:03 Thomas: Wow.

0:22:19 Lydia: He's been focused on COVID -19 since 2020, has talked a lot about vaccine -related topics, including the ethics of placebo -controlled trials during the pandemic. What is owed to those vaccine trial participants after a vaccine has been authorized, the vaccination of transplant candidates, if they have been vaccinated against COVID or not, and how that should influence ethically where they are on a list for an organ transplant. And that's his position.

0:22:17 Thomas: Yeah, so this guy, fucking Rules. Interesting. Yeah.

0:22:38 Thomas: Oh. No kidding. Last, fucking last place. Good. You don't get to just deny what the medical system produced. I strongly believe this. I've said this before and I, I'm sure this professor is too saintly of a person to co-sign onto this, but I've gotten to the point where misinformation is so bad and these people are running everything and ruining our lives that I think science as a whole, if there is such a, there, there should be such a thing. First off, like there needs to be some like, you know, governing body of science broadly that gets to say, okay, guess what? No more science for you.

0:22:51 Lydia: Yeah. Mm hmm.

0:23:15 Thomas: If you don't do the vaccinations, you don'T take our recommendations. You don'T get to be a fair weather science fan. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You either get to use all the stuff and have all the benefits and take our guidance and advice for how to keep people safe. This is not, it's not anything selfish. It's just like, Like you got to listen to the science to keep people safe or not. You don't get to pick and choose. So if you don't go for that, you shouldn't get fucking cell phones or whatever. Like you shouldn't get anything. You're denying science.

0:23:15 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm, yeah, exactly. Here's what he's specifically said. He said this on CNN during an interview regarding unvaccinated folks. Quote, I'll condemn them. I'll shame them. We can penalize them more.

0:23:53 Thomas: There we go.

0:23:53 Lydia: We can say you're going to pay more on your hospital bill if you weren't vaccinated. You can't get life insurance or disability insurance at affordable rates if you aren't vaccinated. People were not pleased with this, but he's like, he feels very strongly about this. Other people have criticized him for his hands-on philosophy. Other philosophers will, you know, that are more classical style, or like hands-on philosophy.

0:23:59 Thomas: Ooh, man. I bet. Yeah, that's awesome. I love this guy. Yeah.

0:24:10 Thomas: Hands on. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do philosophy worthlessly like us.

0:24:14 Lydia: What are you doing and that he engages and some people say you engage too too much with the media. And he says, quote, to me, the whole point of doing ethics is to change people, to change behavior. Why else do it?

0:24:25 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Try to reach as few people as possible with your ethical opinions. That's the way to do it.

0:24:31 Lydia: Doesn't that feel unethical, like on its face then?

0:24:32 Thomas: Yeah. Unethical. Yeah. Yeah.

0:24:34 Lydia: No, I'm saying like to not actually try and reach people, that feels unethful. Yeah. So he's written tons of books, tons of papers, more than 860 papers is the last number I saw there. Frequent commentator on the media regarding different viruses and health challenges in America, like obesity, COVID -19 vaccination, et cetera. This is someone who is deeply engaged in these conversations and also, I think, the history of a lot of these conversations, too.

0:24:35 Thomas: No, I know. Yeah. Yeah, wow.

0:25:03 Lydia: And so let me read to you.

0:25:03 Thomas: And the other guy just has a bumper sticker that says, where's the beef? We should kill more cows. That's like his qualifications. Okay, cool.

0:25:08 Lydia: Yeah, exactly. So let me read to You what he wrote. This is just on bioethicstoday .org on a blog. This is nothing like he didn't take out like a full advertisement.

0:25:19 Thomas: Oh, my God. Oh! It wasn't like in his class? That's what it would lead me to believe. It would be like professor lectures his class about... Yeah. Oh. Okay. Yeah... No. Well, ever since Charlie Kirk, you're not allowed to have that kind of free speech, I guess.

0:25:28 Lydia: No, no, no. He just wrote an article. He just wrote an article on the internet.

0:25:35 Lydia: Okay. He says, the federal government has launched a highly visible campaign to promote drinking whole milk. The USDA is running a hashtag drink whole milk website featuring an edited image of President Trump, who is known to heavily favor diet soft drinks, not milk, with a white streak on his upper lip. Plenty of other endorsements are flooding the internet."

0:25:49 Thomas: Yeah! Also, Don Jr. had had a white streak on his nose, but it was unrelated. Okay.

0:25:56 Lydia: Let

0:26:01 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:26:01 Lydia: Me actually have you play. Let me send you a clip really fast so we can see one of the other endorsements that's happened as part of this.

0:26:09 Thomas: I'll just hit play here.

0:26:10 Clip: Woo-hoo! Woo-Hoo!

0:26:10 Lydia: No, not that one. Sorry, I'm sending you another one. Oh, yeah, you're doing your thing. I gotcha. Exactly. Milk roll.

0:26:13 Thomas: No, I'm, I'm, I'm milk rolling you. I can't think of the word milk without "we used to have a proper country, we used have a fucking country". This banger that I've been waiting now 30 minutes of unedited recording to play is something we just played to our kids in the 70s or something, or maybe 80s. I, I remember it as a kid, but they replay these things. We just dropped this absolute banger on our children.

0:26:49 Thomas: Listen to these chords. Listen to what this song is doing. And Sesame Street's showing us a bunch of gross stuff where cows are being milked, but whatever. I ignore that. It's like the MTV music video. The lyrics could use work, but listen to this fucking song. Fucking rules. I had this in my head for my whole life. Listen to that. We're like prog rock. It's so good. Good.

0:26:56 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:27:21 Thomas: How much of this am I allowed to play before?

0:27:23 Lydia: Before it gets taken down.

0:27:25 Thomas: Oh, well, now we're going crazy. Where are we now? Where are we Now? And then there's the part where just she goes, and that part's a little weird. Listen, we used to have music. We used to have music in this country. Okay. That's the weird part. A baby really wants it. I have a feeling this is ultimately also was part of the, like, big milk cow, whatever, government, an agenda, but still, if you're gonna write a song like that, I'm, I'm in. Okay, that was only half of it. I would play the whole thing, but I think I'm gonna get divorced if I do so. We can play your stupid thing.

0:27:42 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah, get ready for mine.

0:28:12 Thomas: Now, okay, this song better be good. Wow.

0:28:27 Thomas: There is so much here. First off, why is it going into Stranger Things? It's going into Stranger Things after that for some reason. And then the zoom in thing that it does is like literally a Tim and Eric-esque, like, freeze frame, you know? Like, I know you're not a big Tim and Eric fan, but, like, the parody thing they would do where it's like a freeze frame on a guy's face making a weird, like, it does that, but unironically. Like, that's how bad this

0:28:27 Lydia: So that was Ben Carson. Yeah, it is. It is. I wish.

0:28:54 Lydia: Uh -huh. Yeah. You have to, like, hear him, like smack his lips about drinking the milk. Yeah?

0:29:00 Thomas: Is, oh yeah. Let's put the mic in your mustache. Let's just make sure it's as close as possible to your smacking. Sounds, oh god, that's what she wants you to hear, while I want you to hear amazing prog rock song.

0:29:07 Lydia: Yeah. Uh huh. Huh? Here's the more propaganda that was happening on the Department of Agriculture's Twitter page. It says, drink up, America. Hashtag drink whole milk.

0:29:25 Thomas: Wait, is he doing, like, a Hitler pose? Like, what?

0:29:27 Lydia: This, I feel like, is really provocative. This picture.

0:29:29 Thomas: Isn't that, am I, am I crazy? Isn't there, like, an actual photograph of Hitler where he's doing that? So he's got the double fists on the desk, you know? Am I, or is it just from the movie?

0:29:39 Lydia: Let's see. Hitler at desk. It might just be from the movie.

0:29:44 Thomas: That, like, one. Okay, look, I I don't think that he's literally like, hey, let's do a Hitler thing. I doubt he thinks that way.

0:29:52 Lydia: It does look very authoritarian, though, doesn't it?

0:29:54 Thomas: Yeah, for sure. That is intentional for sure, and maybe that's just by coincidence. It's the same, but like, what the fuck?

0:29:57 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. It's this black and white picture. It says the milk mustache is back and it's Donald Trump with both fists at his table, a tall glass of milk and and a milk mustache on his face.

0:30:10 Thomas: Yeah, which, okay, this is so obviously completely digital in every way. If you zoom in on the mustache, dear God, it's Terrible. It's like someone took literal whiteout and put it on a photo. That's how bad it looks. And the milk, you can clearly see the glass of milk that's also been digitally put there, or else it was there and he just didn't drink it. It hasn't had anything drunk from it.

0:30:15 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, let me see. They painted it on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:30:33 Lydia: No, it's a full glass milk. Yeah?

0:30:33 Thomas: So he has a milk mustache with a full glass of Milk Plus with whole milk, you think you're not seeing the lip residue where all the fat of the milk like when you went on, absolutely, yeah. Unless they had the chef come and do the thing, they do the plates where they like take a napkin and like wipe around the thing.

0:30:42 Lydia: Oh, yeah? The legs? You see the legs? Mm -hmm.

0:30:50 Thomas: Like, unless you did that after he had a drink, this is entirely fake. No one cares anymore, it doesn't matter, but like, it's entirely, entirely digital. There's no sense in what I would be surprised if a desk was even there.

0:31:01 Lydia: Oh I know, I know.

0:31:01 Thomas: Actually, it's just him doing that pose. It might not even be him. Yeah, make

0:31:03 Lydia: Or it's AI. Yeah, I mean, here's another image that they've shared as well, that it is not meant to literally be him, as you'll see, it's like a cartoon sort of version of him.

0:31:14 Thomas: Whole milk great again.

0:31:16 Lydia: Yeah so this is the White House tweeting this out, and it's Trump being the milkman.

0:31:19 Thomas: But it was great though. Hold on, by your theory it already was great. You need to make us great again by having whole milk.

0:31:27 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, we're the problem, not the milk.

0:31:27 Thomas: That doesn't even make sense. Doesn't ever make sense. Was whole milk is like, oh, they took some of the fat out of it and now we're restoring it or something. No, it's just saying we should all have whole milk, right?

0:31:40 Lydia: Well, it's saying specifically at schools that they're saying, oh, it'S not just 2 % and skim. Yeah.

0:31:43 Thomas: Yeah. So the whole milk is already great. Like, do I have to do your propaganda for you? Stupid.

0:31:49 Lydia: It is stupid. Arthur Kaplan continues and writes, as with the bizarre campaign started by conservatives in the early 2000s, denouncing the supposed war on Christmas, Many on the right seem to believe there has been a war on whole milk. I don't see much evidence of this claim.

0:32:05 Thomas: No.

0:32:06 Lydia: And then he goes on to say, you know, it's true that U .S. dietary guidelines and school lunch policies did once discourage full fat dairy consumption, including the drinking of whole milk due to obesity concerns. Concerns.

0:32:16 Thomas: Yeah, but that was wrong. I hope we all know that that was like there. It was part of I think it was part of the thing where it's like anti fat content in food, like because they thought they just word association. They thought if something was fat, then that would make you fat. But it's It's actually really with milk, especially the opposite, because the less fat it has, the more sugary it is. And it is actually better for you. I don't even know that it's artificial. I think it's part of the chemical process or whatever. I think that was what I thought, but I could be wrong.

0:32:26 Lydia: Yeah.

0:32:38 Lydia: Because they try to make up for the taste, right? Like when there's less fat, they try and add.

0:32:47 Lydia: Yeah, but I will say it's also one of those things where it's questionable how much dairy milk people need to really be drinking anyway. There's a lot of conversations that have been happening with nutritionists and, you know, folks who study food and food science and all of that stuff. We're having this debate about what level of fat content is best for our bodies, with... But it might just be that we shouldn't be drinking milk at all.

0:32:55 Thomas: Yeah.

0:33:12 Thomas: Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it, I mean, I don' t know. I think It's fine, probably. Right? I mean It's got stuff that is decent. It's Got fat content. It's GOT some protein. It's probably not terrible, but it's also like, I think he said it. Like, I don't think there is a war on whole milk. Like, I don' t know anyone who is fighting whole milk right now.

0:33:16 Lydia: Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah, and he says that whole milk was always allowed at schools.

0:33:32 Thomas: Yeah, it was always a laugh.

0:33:34 Lydia: They weren't saying you can't have it. It just wasn't available free for the lunch that was federally subsidized for kids that were getting school lunches at the time.

0:33:43 Thomas: Well, okay. I mean, I do think that it makes a difference which thing is more easily available. And like, if it's a school lunch thing, I would want the more healthy thing. I' ll listen to the scientists and maybe I' m wrong about milk, but my impression is if you are going to have milk, I' l say that. Like, if you' re going tohave milk, I think it' s better to have whole milk than to have skimmed milk. I thinkit fills you up more and gets you more, yeah, Yeah. You're more satiated and it has less of the like sugary component to it. Right.

0:33:48 Lydia: Yeah.

0:34:03 Lydia: Yeah. You're more satiated. But if there hasn't actually been a war on whole milk, then what what is happening? Why is this happening? And he says milk drinking is political. Drinking whole white milk has played a big role in racist and far right thinking. And apparently this has been part of a white supremacist rallying cry for decades, decades. He cites Mussolini's public health campaigns in Italy. Yeah, that the Nazis were enamored of whole milk, that there's there's

0:34:12 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, Mussolini. Oh OK. Wow. Such

0:34:43 Lydia: Like books about this. Yeah.

0:34:44 Thomas: A funny way to say it. You know, those Nazis, they were enamored of whole milk.

0:34:46 Lydia: Do you remember, and this is far more recent than some of those decades long ago things, but do you remember the Shia LaBeouf art installation, He Will Not Divide Us in 2017? Yeah.

0:34:59 Thomas: Oh gosh, I don't think so. Maybe.

0:35:04 Lydia: So it was basically this like live webcam that they had. It was outside of the Museum of the Moving Image in New York. And basically it was just this big thing, this big piece that said, "He will not divide us." And then people gathered and then they would just just say "he will not divide us," you know, whenever they wanted, and into the camera and shout it and chant it, and, you know, it became like a rallying cry sort of thing. It's like a performance art sort of things. Shia LaBeouf showed up there a lot.

0:35:15 Thomas: Boy.

0:35:27 Thomas: Oh, was it his thing? Oh, okay.

0:35:31 Lydia: Yeah, well, at least he partnered with it. I don't know that it was his art piece.

0:35:35 Thomas: Yeah, well, anyway, that guy's a piece of shit.

0:35:37 Lydia: Necessarily. He is a piece of shit. This was interesting and unfortunately it took off on 4chan and So then 4chan people started all coming together and then And they descended upon this and they started, I don't know why exactly, but they all started chugging milk on camera and raising their own flags and stuff. So much so that that then became an emoji that Richard Spencer used in his Twitter bio. It was lactose tolerant milk glass, right? It became such a meme for this group of people that it moved from like the Pepe the Frog frogbit, to milk. Milk was the like the thing that they focused on.

0:35:55 Thomas: Oh, huh. Oh yeah, yeah. Huh. Oh. So sorry, what was the connection of milk to the Shia LaBeouf thing?

0:36:23 Lydia: So good question. No one really knows. I don't think it was ever saying like, we don't like milk, you know, and then 4chan people show up to drink milk. It had nothing to do with that. It's almost like a dog whistle, right? It's it's a call to other alt -right people.

0:36:36 Thomas: Yeah. They just decided to use that dog whistle in relation to the Shia LaBeouf thing. It wasn't like, okay, I was a little confused, but okay, yeah, I'll just go with it.

0:36:44 Lydia: Yeah. Like, you know, kind of more pro-Trump. So we saw a lot of that stuff grow there. You know, they carrying their milk, drinking their milk on camera, shouting really racist things on camera. Anti -Semitic.

0:36:58 Thomas: Having diarrhea because they're actually not meant for your stomachs, not really meant to drink that much milk.

0:37:03 Lydia: One of the counter protesters, I guess, drank his milk and then went up to the camera and said, quote, an ice cold glass of pure racism. And the reason why, well, one of the reasons why is that there is science that looks at lactose tolerance by country, right, Asian and African countries.

0:37:11 Thomas: Uh huh. Yeah, I was going to say that. Yes. The Asian countries aren't lactose tolerant tend to be. Oh, Africa. I didn't know that.

0:37:25 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. So when you look at the rates of lactose intolerance, it tends to be heavily European countries. Yeah. And Northern European. Yeah.

0:37:31 Thomas: Yeah. Obviously, it's going to be something stupid like that. We're proud of the most meaningless fucking shit.

0:37:38 Lydia: So for those people, they see if you can drink milk without farting, I guess, that you are evolved.

0:37:38 Thomas: God. Oh, that proves. Yeah. Are they checking their underpants afterwards? Make sure. And like, hold on. You gotta sit here for a while. I gotta make sure that you could do it. Oh yeah. Oh

0:37:51 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They see it as a sign of strength of genetic health. They often use it to mock people who aren't white. And, you know, this is also brought into like that idea of what it means to be a man like soy boys. Right. As a pejorative. So everything kind of gets linked back to dairy. It's so strange. They've had people that are like chugging milk saying if you can't drink milk, you have to go back like that. That's the line for immigration. Yeah, it's really crazy. And then he ends this piece, Arthur Kaplan, racism and eugenics, sadly, may be playing a role in the sudden drive to fetishize drinking whole milk. Drinking whole milk is a dog whistle to far right white nationalists. The campaign to promote whole milk may have many factors behind it. But at a time when eugenic racism and white nationalism fuel too much of our political rhetoric, the whole milk campaign must be swallowed with care. So he's basically just being like, pay attention.

0:38:05 Thomas: Right. Yeah. Oh yeah. Forgot about that. Yeah. Dear god.

0:38:52 Thomas: Yeah, because

0:38:52 Lydia: There's probably more stuff going on here because historically there has been more stuff going on there.

0:38:55 Thomas: He's Absolutely fucking right. And obviously it's just a perfect storm, this whole milk bullshit for them, because it's like, for one, the color is white. Okay. For two, it's got everything else you talked about. For three, it also, they have a sense that anything new, anything that goes against in any way what was like the thing they think their childhood was or the thing they think was the right thing, that is coded as liberal cuck woke bullshit, like anything that's trying to change anything because they are just reactionaries, their status quo warriors, their people who just are so scared that something's going to change. And they think anyone trying to change anything is a wokest enemy. And so it's like all those things together with the whole milk make it like the perfect thing for them.

0:38:59 Lydia: Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:39:46 Lydia: I will say milk is not naturally white, like the color that we see for milk. And I mean, you know, I breastfed our babies and stuff. And like, so we've seen the color differences that happen when there's more fat, when there's more water content, more sugar content, etc.

0:39:50 Thomas: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And if you've seen that Star Wars, it's, you know, those things. Milk. Yeah, yeah, right.

0:40:05 Lydia: Blue milk. But the color is not this pure white. That is happening because it's being altered by people who want it to be bought for being pure white, yeah.

0:40:12 Thomas: Right. Oh, man. Obviously. I didn't even think about that.

0:40:22 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:40:22 Lydia: I've learned so much about history through the preparation for this episode.

0:40:26 Thomas: Yeah. You could get a good education just by researching for 10 seconds what these idiots are saying and why it's wrong. And you're like, oh, I learned a whole bunch about racism.

0:40:34 Lydia: It's so interesting, yeah, I mean, it's really sad, but there's always been elements of racism linked to diet. Always during the 19th and 20th centuries, early 20th centuries, based on the type of food that your population ate, those who believed in social Darwinism would categorize those populations based off of what their primary food sources were. So if you were eating meat and dairy, that's often the colonizer and it provides you physical vigor and, you know, imperial dominance. Like that's the reason why you are colonizing and taking over these other countries is because of the strength that you're getting from your diet, which was largely meat and dairy.

0:40:41 Thomas: Yeah, yeah.

0:41:13 Thomas: And just the power of your gas, like purely.

0:41:16 Lydia: Exactly. It probably just smelled so bad.

0:41:18 Thomas: Oh God. I don't think about that.

0:41:18 Lydia: You're crop dusting everywhere. And people are like, if you just leave, I'll do whatever you want. Just leave. Whereas in Asia and Africa, those diets are largely or at the time especially were largely plant based. And so they were thought to be weak or effeminate. And this idea of civilization hierarchy that has been around now for centuries. Even some doctors, you know, going back centuries, said that the American diet, you know—we were focused on eggs, milk, and dairy at the time—they called it the panacea for why there was a lack of intellectual vigor for the rice eaters of the non-Western world. In 1884, actually, one of the guys who played a big role in creating the epidural, J. Leonard Corning, prescribed milk and meat for, quote, cerebral exhaustion. For anyone who wasn't white, he would prescribe them milk and meat to help them improve their brain energy levels.

0:41:23 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.

0:41:55 Thomas: Oh my God. Dear God. Oh dear Yeah. I mean, okay. If you are malnourished, it could be, yeah, like getting the literal energy you need could be good, but I don't know why that in particular, you know, okay, they

0:42:23 Lydia: Perhaps, yeah. It could be. Yeah. 1923, Herbert Hoover was, this is before he was president, addressed the World Dairy Congress, which, you know, the dairy industry, yep, and said that the dairy industry, more than any other of the food industries, you know, and obviously he's pandering to them, I'm sure at that point. But he says it's not only essential for public health, but for the very growth and virility of the white race.

0:42:41 Thomas: Have a Congress. Wow.

0:42:55 Thomas: Oh my God.

0:42:57 Lydia: How incredibly racist. I mean, it's baked into it.

0:43:00 Thomas: We need to teach how just outwardly racist people were not that long ago. People who ran the country, like, I mean obviously now, but like, but this is a reason that that so many people are in denial about the racism of now is they don't actually like, I never learned that. Like if you were actually teaching people stuff in a real way, that's important.

0:43:07 Lydia: Yep.

0:43:21 Thomas: Wouldn't it be important to be like, yeah. So, you know, the guy who would be the president said like, this is good for the white race. Like just so, so take everything else that person did with a grain of salt. Right. You know, like, isn't that like kind of important? Yeah.

0:43:22 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, mm -hmm. It kind of speaks to who that person is and what their character is, right? Now, keep in mind, when you look at the world population, 68 % has some degree of lactose intolerance. I just see like in everything that I look at, I feel like I see this more and more and where white people are not the majority of people on earth.

0:43:37 Thomas: Yeah. No.

0:43:54 Thomas: Yeah.

0:43:54 Lydia: And so like they keep finding these ways, these little things that they can point to. And then you market it and you say like, that's the reason we're strong and that's the reason we should be in power. And that's why we're better than everybody else. Because again, I'm going to go back to a bug's life. People who who listen to me a lot will know my bugs life comparison. But white people are, you know, they're the grasshoppers and everybody else are the ants in the same way that, you know, there's my opinion about classes and everything like that. But there are fewer white people on this planet. And so in order for them to maintain power, they have to keep drawing these strange and bizarre differences between them and the majority of the rest of the world. There's a piece in The Atlantic that came out when this legislation was signed talking about to this day, as we've seen with all this stuff, white nationalists, alt -right groups hold up dairy milk as a symbol of whiteness and masculinity, as opposed to soy milk or plant based milks.

0:44:05 Thomas: Yeah, yeah.

0:44:52 Thomas: Sucking the teat of an animal. Nothing more masculine.

0:44:55 Lydia: Super, super masculine. Those are seen as woke, feminist, and the multiracial left. Yeah. They interviewed some health experts for that piece. And they said, again, the whole idea that there was a time when we were healthy, this is quotes, this whole idea that there was a time when we were healthy. And during that time, we were eating steak and drinking whole milk is not rooted in any reality. It's this idealized version in the same way that Make America Great Again. It's going back to this idealized version of what the 50s were, of what the 1950s were. Make America Healthy Again. You know, it's like just really focusing in and attaching to this idealised thing that never actually existed ever.

0:44:57 Thomas: Yeah.

0:45:37 Thomas: Well, It's hard because our food has gotten bad.

0:45:40 Lydia: Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

0:45:40 Thomas: So it's like, I think it'll be appealing to some people to be like, yeah, go back to what it was, but that doesn't mean everything in the past was good, like, there probably was too much reliance on meat and things like that, like, it isn't as good. It's really bad for cancers, like, it just is, you know, like if you eat plant-based, you have lower, you know, reduced risk of

0:45:53 Lydia: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Colon cancer is a big one. Yeah.

0:46:01 Thomas: Bowel cancers, colon cancers, yeah, all those kind of things. It's hard, though, because I do think with the health stuff, it really makes sense that that's the thing that's, like, kind of the more mainstream aspect and mainstream appeal for MAGA is, like, oh, okay, well, but that makes sense because now everything sucks food-wise, so it does make sense to be like, you know, make America healthy again. I think it's, there's so many people, you know, and also so many, like, content creators making money on this bullshit where different diets and different fads and different things that all appeal to this bygone era that, you're saying didn't exist. And I think it's rough because in some ways it kind of did. There was a time before all our food was the most processed fucking bullshit ever. And, you know, that does kind of suck.

0:46:33 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Mm-huh.

0:46:44 Thomas: There is some truth to that.

0:46:43 Lydia: Yeah, 100%. However, what have we seen with the food pyramid when RFK took over? He flipped it upside down. And now what he's saying is that the biggest part of our diet should be meat and dairy.

0:46:49 Thomas: Like for a workout video are. See how many reps I could do with this pyramid. Not good.

0:47:03 Lydia: That's what he said. That's the thing. The scientists and doctors that are affiliated with Health and Human Services are signing off and saying that we should be consuming these things that are found to be very, very high in saturated fat, which is connected to a lot of dietary problems. How is that necessarily making us healthy? If we're talking solely about processed foods, I agree.

0:47:06 Thomas: Yeah.

0:47:22 Thomas: Oh, no, I know. I'm just saying.

0:47:22 Lydia: But that doesn't mean that vegetables and fruits fall down on the pyramid.

0:47:24 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I was just saying, like, that's like, because there's an element of truth to the idea that things were better in a certain sense food-wise. That's all I'm saying. It's an effective appeal for them.

0:47:33 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. So I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm on Arthur Kaplan's side for this, that I think historically there's a lot of there there. I don't think he's wrong. The way that the New York Post framed this is obviously idiotic. And that this Wesley J. Smith loser bioethicist that is speaking against Arthur Kaplan is a piece of crap. And yeah,

0:47:44 Thomas: Yeah again, I don't think you can be a bioethicist by just saying no ethics, I've done a research, no ethics, and fuck animals, like they're the worst. That's just cheating.

0:48:04 Lydia: Yeah, I know. I know! No. And so I want to leave us with, I mean, I'm going to leave you mostly with this, but I would like you to experience it and then tell our audience about it. But this is what RFK posted after Trump signed this legislation.

0:48:11 Thomas: Oh. Great. Everything he does is horrifying and disgusting. I don't know that I can even watch Curb anymore because of, because of what's her name. It's just so depressing. It says, when you take that first sip of whole milk No.

0:48:21 Lydia: This is even more horrifying. Oh, yeah. Because of Cheryl Hines. Yeah. Yeah.

0:48:44 Thomas: Okay, so that's him. Well, it's AI, I think.

0:48:43 Lydia: All right. So it is AI.

0:48:48 Thomas: The first thing is him, but the second thing seems like AI.

0:48:49 Lydia: I don't know if it is. So this is also connected. I don't know if you've seen this meme before. It's Jon Hamm. This is like a pretty TikTok, Instagram centered thing where it's like when something happens and then it's real footage of Jon Hamm from a television show where he is like, he closes his eyes and he's like in this club sort of scene. He's like feeling the music. No, no. I think it's that newer show he's in that. We haven't watched. So this is literally just ripping it off, taking the exact audio from that. And now instead of Jon Hamm, we have to look at RFK

0:48:56 Thomas: Oh. Yeah, I don't know it. Yeah. Yeah, is it just Madman? Or, oh, because it's newer. Uh, yeah, I know.

0:49:27 Thomas: Oh God.

0:49:27 Lydia: Drinking milk and then drinking milk at a club. I don't know. Yeah.

0:49:30 Thomas: Yeah, imagine if you did that, like, what kind of sociopath, like, the response: it's just like drinking a glass of whole milk on the dance floor, God! Everything they do, if you did it in polite company, would be like, dear God. Yeah.

0:49:35 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. It's so cringy. It's so cringing. But, you know, you're probably going to see a lot more got milk type campaigns coming out. Riley Gaines just posed for one without a milk mustache, though, because that would be I don'T know. No.

0:50:00 Thomas: Oh, like the women can't do it because it's too masculine?

0:50:02 Lydia: Like, yeah, maybe. Maybe. I have not seen any woman who's participated in this have a milk mustache yet. Yeah.

0:50:05 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, man, that's so perfect, too.

0:50:09 Lydia: Yeah, folks, if you see some really weird got milk style things, send them my way because I have like a little collection going. They're all terrible. They don't

0:50:16 Thomas: Ugh, boy. What are we doing with our lives? I think we need a new line of work. The minute you said I have a got milk collection of things, like, oh, man. I'm really just examining, just reexamining some choices. He says, well, so in the end, you could almost say that, no, the professor didn't say that. And also if he did, what he said was right.

0:50:22 Lydia: Know. I don't say that the utter nonsense is not so nonsense, but it's still utter. I don't know. I'll get there. I'll figure something out.

0:50:52 Thomas: But calling back to my call out of the show, like it's pretty much what I said, right? Okay. It always is. It's fine. Oh, good times. Well, that was fun. That guy sounds really cool.

0:50:57 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It is. Oh, I know. I want to read some of his

0:51:06 Thomas: Yeah. Sounds like he's done a lot of good work. I really think my idea. A, Hey, scientists, everybody who works in anything like science, climate science, you know, you don't, you don'T get to pick and choose. You either accept science or like, if you work in a field, you can have, you're going to have a minority view on the field. That's fine. I get it. If you actually work in it, but if you're just like me, a customer, you'RE a customer of science. You'RE a fucking, you 'Re not a purveyor. You 'Re NOT a doer of science.

0:51:12 Lydia: Stuff. Mm -hmm.

0:51:32 Thomas: YOU'RE just a customer. You take what they fucking give you. That's, you know, you don't get you to pick can choose, you know, you gotta take those vaccines or nothing. You don't get anything. That's my, that's my view. Stupid. I hate it so much. I wish we could do stuff like that. All right, well, mark yourself safe from being in a club with uh, RFK. Well, being anywhere with RFK Jr. These people are insane and racist as always. Well, thanks for that deep dive, hun. That was fun. I'm gonna go wash it down a nice tall glass of oat milk because I'm a wokest. More like woke milk.

0:51:34 Lydia: Yeah. Yep. Oh I know. Got Milk. Oh, I. Now he's the worst. Yeah, yeah, of course.

0:52:05 Lydia: There you go. Suck it, woke milk. Yeah, woke milk. Let's see Hitler at

0:52:37 Thomas: I'm milk rolling you. Just know that every time you stop talking, I'm having the song in my head and while you're talking.

0:52:47 Lydia: Desk without farting, I guess.