Lively v. Baldoni 55 - I SAID. NO ONE'S LEAVING UNTIL WE SOLVE THIS.

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:01 Clip: All rise. Court is now in session. Court is reconvened. I may be seated. Maintain order. The federal rise to face the jury and harken to its verdicts.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavel in, Gavel Gavel. I'm Thomas. That over there is Lydia. It's Gavel's Day.

0:00:31 Lydia: Mm -hmm. Hello.

0:00:33 Thomas: How are you doing?

0:00:33 Lydia: Feeling gavel -y. Got a gavel in my head? Not afraid to use it?

0:00:37 Thomas: What?

0:00:37 Lydia: I don't know.

0:00:39 Thomas: We're losing it, folks. We've covered a lot of tough stuff just on the other shows lately. So in a way, it's comforting to get back to the old, oh my God, there's one more Alan Dershowitz than there ever needed to be in the world currently.

0:00:48 Lydia: Oh, my Way more Alan Dershowitz than I ever wanted in my life, between all the shows. Yeah. Agreed.

0:00:57 Thomas: God. Anyway, it's gavel time. It's Gavel Gavel. I'm gavel, that's over there's Gavel, and we're Gavel Gavel

0:01:04 Lydia: Yeah, you're a gaVEL, I'm a gaVEL.

0:01:07 Thomas: Takes one to know one You can call me gavel Well everyone, as I have said previously, I know this is a lot, this is hardcore But this is such a crucial time We gotta get to the bottom of this as best we can Because it really does, these texts, these emails that we've been going through on August 7th, 8th, 9th all that that time frame are critically important and it it seems to be when like the main shit hit the fan in terms of the like yeah and just when the trust broke down and when they just started fighting it's really interesting because it's not clear to me yet who's to blame if anyone who's right and wrong about who's the blame what started what you know it's like there's just so many things that aren't clear and so it's very important we promise this should be the last episode on this Unless there's anything like mind -blowing new that comes out. Should be the last episode on this, but there are more wow moments to be had. And at the very least, I think we can draw some conclusions. So we're going to be breaking down this stuff that we've been looking at that you've already heard a bit on. We're goingto be breaking that down in light of newly unredacted stuff and more work that my steam engine brain put into

0:01:34 Lydia: If yeah when jed wallace is engaged in this you know it's all that timing yeah

0:02:17 Thomas: It, just like over and over, couldn't stop thinking about it.

0:02:19 Lydia: And maybe we get to talk about something else in our home

0:02:23 Thomas: I will very quickly move on to another obsession, but I had to finish this obsession out first. At least when it comes to this element of this case.

0:02:30 Lydia: Yep the hyper fixation was

0:02:32 Thomas: Anyway, yeah, anyway, that's where we're at. If you want to make sure to get all this early, make sure you're on patreon .com slash gavelpod and you will have had access to this way ahead of everybody else. All those normies, beat the normies. Get access early. All right, we'll take our first break and then we will dig into it.

0:02:42 Lydia: Real yeah yeah

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0:02:55 Thomas: All right. So now we are more in the future. Speaking from more of the future now, a whole bunch of stuff has been unsealed. Now I know that we have been going in docket order, but this is an interesting one because we're still talking about the stuff that happened at this time, but it's just that stuff has been redacted later. So I don't really think that, I don'T feel like a strong obligation necessarily to follow the like redaction timeline because it's, yeah, it's like applicable to this direct stuff. And I love this because this gives us an opportunity to really test like, okay, how good are we or how accurate are we at coming up with theories? Because there might be stuff in this unredacted stuff that just blows everything we're saying up if

0:03:07 Lydia: Yeah the reveal timeline yeah right yeah and be like oops

0:03:41 Thomas: We're not doing well at the theories. Yeah, and so we've read through this a lot of, we have not read through everything, but like we've red through some new stuff. And by new stuff, I mean newly revealed messages in the same exchanges we're already looking at. So before we only had what was in like the timeline that Baldoni parties themselves decided to put in. Now we have like more of those conversations. Conversations I'm struggling with my view of Melissa like I'm really struggling on one hand I stand by my idea that it's just it's Just too crazy to suspect that she would be trying to frame Stephanie but then would say it's not Stephanie like right away I just I don't think so on the other hand this is something that I only go to at kind of an extreme this is not my first hypothesis I will go to with someone I think it's risky to jump to extremes when it comes to people and and explaining their behaviors, I think there's a possibility Melissa is actually a pathological liar.

0:04:40 Thomas: Like, actually, to the point where she doesn't entirely... Okay, here's my contention to you. Based on stuff I've read, Ithink Melissa might be Andrew. I think Melissa thinks that if she convinces someone something's true, then it's true.

0:04:50 Lydia: I could see that. Yeah,

0:04:56 Thomas: Ithink that if she thinks she can convince someone, and the reason, I'm not going to get into everything I'veread, but there are texts and texts that have now come out from later on of Melissa swearing she did nothing wrong and to the point where I think I believe that she believes that and also still referencing like stuff she definitely did. Like, it'll be like, we didn't plant anything, but also she has acknowledged that she did, I guess, in different words, like feed information to report. And it's like, I don't know what she's relying on. I don' t know if she's relying on like a slightly different definition of words or what, but I've reached the point where I think Melissa, there might be something genuinely wrong with Melissa. And that would explain why Steph Jones is so anti -Melissa, you know? And that Would Explain Why Steph Jones Is Like, Hey, I Have Some Shit To Share About Melissa. I Forget When That Was, But I Think It Was When There Was Like, Please Don't Hire Her. No, Because It Was Redacted. We Saw A Thing Where I Think We Saw Something Recently Where It Was Like Call Me. I Got I Have some shit about Melissa and it was just a call and we didn't know what it was.

0:05:34 Lydia: Yeah yeah. Have you heard about like what that what that is? Yeah.

0:05:59 Lydia: So my understanding it was Stephanie Jones's client was in a hotel room with someone that Melissa Nathan repped or something like they were on this trip or something And a young, you know, 20 -year -old model, aspiring model singer was dead in a bathtub. And yeah, really, really crazy. And Stephanie Jones says that the way that Melissa Nathan handled that crisis was, yeah, was to give her, because she had a stage name and she had birth name. And so she was giving varying information to different outlets. So to help bury it. Yeah. Yeah.

0:06:15 Thomas: Oh, oh my God. What? Made Her Think She's a sociopath? Oh my God. Oh my God. Well, how do you know this? Okay. Well I, I didn't even see that. And I was like, maybe Melissa is a pathological liar.

0:06:36 Lydia: Because of stuff that's been redacted from all these texts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:06:44 Thomas: Now that's like, oh, okay. So she's a fucking sociopath. And that I also want to say, and I think I've said this before. I think I owe Stephanie Jones an apology. I mean, I thinkI was pretty, you know, cause like I'm skeptical when somebody, cause it really seemed like with the stuff that they had on Stephanie, where it was like that article that that That reporter did a bunch of work on it. And yes, it seemed like Melissa, you know, and Jen might've been stoking that, but there's only so much of that you can do with a reporter. You can't just like make something up and then tell a reporter to publish it. That doesn't work. That is contrary to what all the Baldoni people think about the New York Times. Like that doesn't actually work. They have to look into it themselves. So I thought like, oh, maybe there's something here. We have gone through so much stuff. I have not seen anything that makes Stephanie Jones look bad. Not a single thing. And granted, there's a lot to go through. I haven't gone through everything. Thing. But it's been a while that we've been doing this and not one time have I seen something that's like, oh, so Steph was just like being a liar there. She was just kind of like, not even at all. Like to the point where I've seen a lot of stuff that makes Leslie look kind of bad, not horrible, but like, eh, okay. Leslie's kind of a liar. Nothing from Steph Jones that I've seen. It's crazy. Maybe, could be, she could just be smarter. But like the fact that like she, she, I take that, that is crazy what you just told me. And I, I take that like, if that's, if you have that on good information or whatever, I see Stephanie Jones as somebody who I'm sure has to, you know, sometimes do some little bit like questionable amounts of spin and all that. Of course, she's a, she's PR person. Yeah. But like, I believe that she would see that and be like, oh my God, that's evil. And I'm not that person. Yeah. And Melissa, I,

0:07:03 Lydia: The DJ and everything. Yeah right. Yeah yeah yeah. And maybe she does all of her lying on the phone. I don't know. But there's just no digital footprint. Mm -hmm. Mm. Sure. That's the industry. Yeah. Yeah, that's a line I will never cross kind of thing. Yeah?

0:08:27 Thomas: I'm telling you, I think she just, I mean, just having heard that, I mean, she might just be a sociopath, like, just straight up.

0:08:35 Lydia: Yeah. And when you know, what's interesting, too, is like, like, now that we've seen a little more of these conversations, and again, there's so much, I'm sure we're going to get into a lot of it in future episodes, too. But something that I wanted to capture kind of these side by side screenshots that that stood out to me was looking at James Vitushka's text with Leslie Sloan. And there was one where he says, so James Vitushka says to Leslie, I do talk to Melissa, but she is in no way giving me any anti -Blake info. Blake's backlash is due to her own words and actions and interviews. The only thing she told me is what she told you, and that's that this is all organic. And then I was looking through, you know, the pages of James and Melissa's texts back and forth, and Melissa says to him, also, I hope you told LS literally, Leslie Sloan, literally all of this hate is And he responds, what's that mean, organic? And so she's like feeding him what organic means. And then he is regurgitating that exact same language choice to Leslie Sloan. So it's just it's this weird, not necessarily coordinated, like in an open way, but this absorbing almost in the same way that Jen Abel absorbs what Melissa tells her and then turns around and kind of talks about it probably in the the same way

0:09:47 Thomas: Yeah, and I've read some of that same stuff, and it seems like Melissa will be feeding and feeding andfeeding and be like, off the record, and then has no awareness that like, hey, maybe some of that contributed to what's going on. Like sure you might have said like oh hey don't tell but like you're talking to a bunch of people who just blab and I think she thinks like oh if I technically set off the record then that means I definitely didn't have anything to do with anything and she'll be saying like this is all organic and she still is acknowledging that she's it just feels like she's convinced herself that she's not lying it's like I don't know I can't tell yeah

0:10:23 Lydia: It is interesting because yeah like all you have to say is like you can give somebody information say off the record so now that person has that information they're going to go look for somebody who can attest to that right because you've given them dirt and they want to be able to publish that

0:10:34 Thomas: Especially since we know they say like Like, hey, just say people close to whatever. We have texts where she's saying, okay, you can't say people close to Baldoni, but say people closed to filming. And it's like, wait, so who is that? Is that her just planting stories? And she doesn't, and she never says she planted anything. She'll swear on a stack of Bibles. Yeah, she'll just be like, never did anything. And it'S like, I don't. So that's what's made this hard is because I think you should be very hesitant to jump to that conclusion about anybody everybody because I think people are flawed and are sometimes going to tell little lies here and there. It doesn't mean they're evil. I think that's just how people are, especially, you know, in something like this where there's conflict. But so there's these times where I've seen Melissa say, like, we didn't do anything. I've been like, God damn, maybe they didn't. And then it's like, but wait, there's an example of her doing something. I Think Melissa just genuinely comes across like she believes she's innocent. I don't know if she believes he's innocent and she's that good of a liar or if she's convinced herself she's innocent or she's delusional. One way or the other, the amount that she's sure that she is innocent does not correspond to how innocent she

0:10:51 Lydia: Mm-hmm, I know under oath actually

0:11:44 Thomas: Is in a way that I wouldn't have thought with most people.

0:11:46 Lydia: Yeah yeah you're right I mean it is it is an andrew corollary for

0:11:50 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. And so some things I wanted to bring up just from slightly more, and we could branch off forever with newly unredacted stuff, we're not going to, but just with slightly more revelations about this moment. Remember when we were trying to figure out what you made the right decision was? And I felt like it was like, I couldn't be about leaving because it felt more immediate. I think I was wrong. I think it is about leaving.

0:12:14 Thomas: And it's because, and speaking of Melissa being very two-faced. So here's the exchange with Melissa Nathan and Katie Case. Now, granted, I guess we didn't have any of this before, but it's from August 6th. So it's like this time period.

0:12:07 Lydia: Right okay

0:12:27 Thomas: So they're talking about, it's hard because they're talking about a lot of other clients too. It's like kind of mixed in. So, you know, I'm not a hundred percent. Maybe you can help me with some of this. Actually, they talk about rebel a little bit.

0:12:25 Lydia: Right

0:12:38 Thomas: It like oh so basically rebel wants one of those sites so it's that so melissa says august 6th again so a few days before this thank you it can be really really harsh and then link it to jed s voice thing is that jed no wait who's jed s huh well anyway

0:12:34 Lydia: Yeah yeah it's got to be jed wallace jed signal voice thing or something maybe I don't

0:12:57 Thomas: I just can't deal with this redacted stuff what is wrong with him katie case says I'm not entirely sure but I will resurface my quote one of her kids is his theory because anything else does not make sense well the weird thing is I can't deal with

0:13:06 Lydia: Know it's scooter that they're talking about

0:13:13 Thomas: This blank stuff is like literally one letter. Oh, so maybe that's Jed S voice thing. So they didn't redact the S there. Oh. So but then here's the thing. The very next message, I guess it is like a minute or two separate.

0:13:17 Lydia: S yeah it could be jed jed Jed regarding Scooter. Yeah. Mm hmm.

0:13:31 Thomas: So let me reread that just to get us in the mindset. Maybe you can help me with this. So this is Katie Case saying, I'm not entirely sure, but I will resurface my one of her kids is his theory because anything else does not make make sense melissa says yep I checked in with jen personally while I sent her that screenshot do you want to check in with the group and just seeing how day two is going and that's day two of like this press thing they're at and katie case says yes so far nothing bad on jb in the press that's run from yesterday so

0:13:53 Lydia: OK. Yeah, the junket. JB is Justin Baldoni. Oh, I'm just kidding.

0:14:03 Thomas: Every yeah so everyone is ostensibly playing nice so the way that that ran right in I was like is that is the jen thing related to the one of her kids is his I mean, I guess I mean there is like a two minute gap. So maybe that's a new topic.

0:14:16 Lydia: Yeah I don't think it is because I think the thing is is that Scooter and Stephanie are friends.

0:14:22 Thomas: Scooter and Steph Jones.

0:14:23 Lydia: Scooter, yeah, mm hmm. But then Scooter also owns part of TAG and so he's also close with Melissa. Yeah and he's also close avec Justin. So yeah, Stephanie.

0:14:34 Thomas: So what's the one of her? Who's the her? Really?

0:14:37 Lydia: Yeah so that's them just gossiping saying that one of stephanie's kids is actually scooters like you know he's the dad who knows

0:14:43 Thomas: Oh, and that's why he. Okay, that that makes sense. So that's so that's probably bullshit their way of coping or whatever.

0:14:44 Lydia: And that's why he always goes to bat for stephany yeah yeah yeah it's

0:14:52 Thomas: Probably. I don't know anything about this, but that would fit into that Melissa's way of operating, I think. But also Katie Case, I guess, too. They seem to culturally hate Stephanie there, which makes sense, I'm sure. And I'm certain Melissa has planted those seeds plenty. Or maybe Katie has some independent reason. I don't know.

0:15:03 Lydia: Weird yeah it's just like mean girl gossiping behavior and stuff well yeah I mean katie used to work for Stephanie's so

0:15:13 Thomas: Oh, okay. Yeah, so maybe Katie doesn't like her either. So, yep, I checked with Jen, so we got that. And Katie Case said, so far nothing about JB, as I said. The next message is from Melissa Nathan. They are, but definitely check, as in everyone's playing nice. Katie Case says, I did. Melissa, and this might be a different thing, but it's all mixed in, Len, whoever that is.

0:15:34 Thomas: Oh, dash Russian oligarchs and making her a madam, basically. LOL, said Jed. I don't know what the fuck that means. We might not have to get into it, but Katie Case. Oh my God. LOL. Okay. This one will be fun. So I guess that's a separate thing. Nevermind. I guess. Sure.

0:15:32 Lydia: He's a russian yeah this oh my god okay uh yeah oh I think that might have have to do with the Amanda Ghost website. Yeah, yeah, that's what it has to do. So they're brainstorming what they want to put on the Amanda ghost website, which is in service of their client Rebel Wilson, because of their lawsuit that's happening there. So trying to link up Amanda Ghost with Len Blavatnik and Russia, basically, which is funny, because Melissa Nathan was part of the whole Russiagate thing and implicated there via like, Tiffany Trump. And yeah.

0:16:15 Thomas: So, I didn't realize it turns out I didn't need to read any of that.

0:16:18 Lydia: Anyway, anyway yeah just cut

0:16:19 Thomas: Maybe it's okay. We can keep it if it's fun. But then an hour later, Katie. SoI believe Katie Katie sends a screenshot of her text with Jen, which is Katie offering, good morning, good morning. I hope you're doing okay. Very quick question. Would you like me to join you and Matthew for the premiere? Now, I thought this was Melissa before, but I guess I made a mistake. So this is Katie, but I guess that would still make sense, right? They're kind of working together, Katie Case, I guess if, yeah. So would you like to join me and Matthew for the premiere you guys absolutely have it in hand and I'm happy to stay in the back as the crisis person lol but I always like to ask just in case an extra set of hands is needed. And Jen responds, I appreciate you offering, but I think we were all set. So that's the screenshots she sends. Katie Case says, LOL, as she sends that, which I think is why I thought it was Melissa. I just assumed it was like a response. But as I'm looking at it, I think she's just saying like, LOL in accompanying the message

0:17:09 Thomas: I'm sending. And she says, I do hope this is a nice reminder of how PR should work together and not just butt their way into any possible situation by force, which is interesting. This is where this gets weird. Melissa Nathan says, sure, but I still don't trust this woman as far as I could throw her.

0:17:09 Lydia: It yeah yeah

0:17:26 Thomas: And she's talking about Jen. Because I was like, that has to be Stephanie, but it's not. Because what happens is I still Don't Trust This Woman as far As I Could Throw Her. Katie Casey says, absolutely not. She's not trustworthy. Melissa Nathan, not one bit. Melissa Nathan then, she sends a screenshot and we don't know who it's to. I think it has to Be Jamie Heath or something. I can't, I don't ,I figured this out at some point. Now I forget, but It's not super important. The screenshot she sends is, there is a separate thread for anything blank related that we have with Joan's works for reasons that you are aware that have nothing to do with me. Jen is there only a few more weeks, which is a real shame, especially for me, as she is the one that does the actual work and is really great. You and I need to discuss where you see this realistically going. She says, she didn't answer my text that speaks volumes because there's no answer to that. And Katie Case says, that's not good. She it's a typo but she'd also be an absolute idiot to go back on leaving

0:18:23 Lydia: Know yeah

0:18:23 Thomas: That has to be jen because they're texting jen jen's the one who's gonna leave it has to b so

0:18:27 Lydia: Yeah and so they're saying like if she's gonna go back and stick with jones

0:18:31 Thomas: This is august 6th after all that's happened that's melissa saying I don't trust this woman jen she's not trustworthy don't this woman as far as I could throw her about jen he's such a two -faced asshole like melissa is so two -faced but then melissa says but also she's screenshot me some shit so you know I I would assume that means like about how bad Jones works is maybe or something or Steph Jones, but continues. Oh, I know, but still Katie, this is Katie case. Oh, no, but I'd be the most embarrassed if I quit then came back, but SJ might've offered her tons of money or something.

0:18:43 Lydia: Works yeah yeah it's crazy

0:19:07 Thomas: Katie case says, have you in blank chat about the blank press preview on 14th, blah, blah. So there's some stuff that's unrelated there. So having seen that where they're, for some reason, they were in doubt that Jen was actually going to leave. I'm not sure why, you know, it can't just be that like, they didn't, she didn't answer this one text. I feel like there's got to be probably something else we haven't seen. But now seeing that, I do think it actually does make sense for that later text. That's like you made the right decision. I think that makes more sense for it to be leaving because that's like fresh on their mind, apparently. But I just thought since she had already made the decision so long ago, it felt weird for that to be what it is. But Now, knowing that there's for some reason, Melissa thought maybe Jen's not going to leave. That makes it make more sense that like she's trying to reinforce that to get her to leave and

0:19:05 Lydia: Yeah right yeah yeah right right Right.

0:19:50 Thomas: It could also, I guess, explain why. Again, I feel like the evidence is not necessarily right now that Melissa started this whole thing to frame Stephanie, but it does make it make sense that she seized on that opportunity to frame Tiffany. And it's like, hey, you know, she did this, right? She sucks. She did this. She sucks to try to. It makes it make a little more sense. I mean, we already suspected this, but makes it makes a little bit more sense that's she's going to like seize on to that and try to drive that wedge between them if she thought maybe she was in danger of losing Jen back to Stephanie.

0:20:13 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah that makes sense.

0:20:20 Thomas: So then there's a little but more interesting stuff in this. Katie Case says, is Jed doing anything on Justin? I'm having Zoe monitor, but that's not the same. Which, by the way, if the argument was that Jed just does monitoring, it's pretty stupid to be like, is Jet doing anything? I'm Having Zoe monitor. But that's Not the Same. Hmm. And Melissa says, not yet. They've not signed him on. Katie Case Says, Erg, I wish they'd get a move on. All they care about is social right now. And we can't do anything about it. LOL.

0:20:47 Thomas: Katie Case still further saying, also, what are we supposed to do about a journalist calling her like, do your job, Jen, LOL, which is like more trashing Jen talk, which I thought was interesting. And I think that's pretty much everything there. But I just, I thought that was interesting to show that like, Melissa is so two -faced that she's shit talking Jen, which I just is just so contrary to the impression we would have gotten, you know, before, which is like, Melisa loves Jen is trying to get her away from Stephanie. Yeah. Such a liar.

0:21:09 Lydia: Oh yeah yeah exactly and she's like we're gonna take over the world together blah blah blah yeah.

0:21:16 Thomas: And the whole, like, just do your jobs. And now that was Katie case saying that, but I think that's indicative of kind of the environment there that they've set up.

0:21:21 Lydia: Mm -hmm. Right exactly like that that would be a welcome comment because of the things that Melissa has done before.

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0:21:34 Thomas: I don't remember if we already had this. I honestly just don't Remember. But on August 7, we have some texts between Jen and Melissa, there's not much here. But I did want to once again, point out for people who try to say and they really try to save this that all Jed was doing is monitoring. I think we already have this. It's the green light thing. She says, I think, we really need to put the social combat plan then into motion. Melissa Nathan says, So do I, we are heavily monitoring, trust me, and have our Friendly is updating us as well. But it's like, so they're already monitoring, but they need the social combat plan. They need Jed.

0:22:04 Lydia: There's additional work that needs to be done that cannot be done via monitoring.

0:22:05 Thomas: So yeah, combat is not monitoring. Yeah, so dumb. Another thing we got is like the full Steph Jones, Jamie Heath, like that group conversation. And we can see if that helps us make any sense of the Sony of it all and like who, how that worked. So after the, I am hearing from Sony that quote, someone named Steph Jones has responded, blah, blah. We've read that a million times. I won't read it again. Steph Jones says, I did not even speak to Daily Mail. So I know this isn't true. Steph Jones, please tell me who at Sony said this as I don't believe it for one minute. Who at Sony? And mind you, we had some of this, but it was like a weird selection of it.

0:22:38 Thomas: This is, I think, finally all of it. Steph Jones says, and we all know I would never ever say Blake is to blame. I'll contact Sony comms now as I know, this isn'T true. So there's a few more messages there that we kind of didn't have. Jamie Heath, do not context anyone at all right now. Contact fixing that. I'm sorry for being direct, but I need to be direct. I don'T want any messaging with anyone right now, so I'm officially needing that to be understood. Understood. Steph Jones, to clarify again, I've not spoken to Daily Mail. The above isn't true. I also don't believe Danny or Kim at Sony are saying that that above quote also has spaces as if it was just being drafted. You know, what's funny is I still don't understand that. I don't know if maybe it just didn't copy in the spaces somehow, but yeah. And then another message, Steph Jones. I am not contacting press, but is concerning if Danny or Tim are saying I have escalated this as I haven't even touched this. I'm going to contact them. Jamie Heath, Then again, with the more bold lie, Stephanie, as your client and the one that pays for the services, I'm stating not to contact anyone regarding Wayfair or Sony at this time. If you do after this text, it will be a major problem. This needs to be respected.

0:22:56 Lydia: I don't either. Mm.

0:23:36 Thomas: Now, respect my authority. Steph Jones, Jamie, I've not spoken to Daily Mail. I have not spoken today, Danny or Kim. Oh, well, she edits this three times. So I'll go down to the final edit here. I have Not spoken Daily Mail I've Not spoken to Danny or Kemet Sony. The above is a significant accusation, and I find it hard to believe true. My main goal is and always has been to protect Justin. I was not aware Melissa was, quote, in the middle of it, as I was told she was only helping with scenario planning. The Daily Mail email came to us and I promptly forwarded it to you, Tara and the team within minutes of receiving. Please give me a call when you land so we can discuss and align on plan. Thank you. Which I think, again, it just emphasizes how much Steph Jones must have realized something was up at this point.

0:23:44 Lydia: Yeah, might as well. Yeah.

0:24:17 Thomas: You know, like what the fuck is that? She knows she didn't do this. It doesn't make any sense. And then Steph Jones says, we received another inquiry. Query. Please call when you land. And then she says a little later, Josh Greenstein just contacted me. And danny, Jamie Heath says, Josh has asked to speak with you and I told him it was okay to call you.

0:24:33 Thomas: So while our position is the same regarding communications, this particular call with Josh as it pertains to Wayfair and Justin, you should take. Thanks. Steph Jones, I am more than happy to speak to Josh. So it seems like she does. We don't get any more on that. And she says People Magazine reached out, but we have not responded. Let's get a line on plan when you land.

0:24:50 Thomas: Jamie Heath, where and when did that come in? And let's not respond at all, not even an acknowledgement of receipt. Steph Jones did not respond. 5:30 p.m. my time, but it was at dinner, so saw and text you above at 641. Is Melissa contacting Daily Mail or no? A little bit later, Steph Jones says, looks like she forwards kind of the Daily Mail article.

0:25:01 Lydia: But was that dinner so saw and texted you? Right.

0:25:13 Thomas: She like links it. Looks like this hit three hours ago, which is likely what prompted People Magazine to inquire with us. Nothing is from an insider and all the quotes, here we go about this, all the quotes are attributed to the specific social media posts our team sent Jen Abel this morning at 8 .11 a .m. Eastern time.

0:25:13 Lydia: Ooh, 5 .11 a .m. Eastern or 5:11 a.m. Pacific, which predates everything.

0:25:38 Thomas: Pacific time. Yeah. Would be before all that. Now, was this the article that only had Lillian on the byline or were they both on it?

0:25:46 Lydia: This might just be the Lillian one.

0:25:48 Thomas: So now for some reason this is redacted and doesn't make any sense because it's obviously Jen.

0:25:52 Lydia: Yes, this is just Lilliam.

0:25:53 Thomas: This is the important message here for us trying to figure out what what the hell happened with that, you know, Sony thing. Jen says, chiming in here, as the team knows this has been changing minute by the minute, what went from just monitoring and scenario planning as of yesterday escalated to Melissa and me having to have an off the record conversation with outlets such as the Today Show, parentheses, since he was live today and they were planning on asking about the fan theories. NYP has been digging since last week, since Justin hasn't been in any of the promo leading up to the junket, but via Melissa's relationship, they have been kept at bay with the assurance that we, along with Blake's team, were not responding to any media. Unfortunately, Daily Mail has communicated to Sony that someone from Justin's camp has contacted them and provided comment. There's no way that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

0:26:42 Lydia: OK, no. So pause there, because part of the other stuff that was unredacted in this dump is Leslie Sloan's conversations with Danny, the communications person at Sony, where she is relaying to Danny, Stephanie Jones talked to Daily Mail. She says, Stephanie Joans talked to somebody. I won't tell you which publication. So somehow they figured out it's Daily Mail? It's still weird.

0:27:06 Thomas: Yeah. I think, well, we'll see in the next message. I think maybe Jen is maybe taking a shortcut here. I don't think she's trying to because like it is crazy to say Daily Mail is communicated to Sony that someone from Justin's camp has contacted them and provide a comment, which has caused heat now with Blake's team. Steph, for full transparency, it was communicated to Sony by Daily Mail. Well, no, she's emphasizing that pretty heavily. So why is she doing that?

0:27:30 Thomas: So why are she trying to cut Leslie out of the OK?

0:27:30 Lydia: Well, it says, and also by Blake's team.

0:27:36 Thomas: So, yeah, reading Steph for full transparency, it was communicated to Sony by Daily Mail and also by Blake's team that it was you who called them and gave them info as Sony called us and told us this. The plan for now is to keep compiling the incoming requests, which we are sharing as an FYI to Melissa's team who are monitoring this for us while we continue to junk it and have the screening tonight. Night and I have a call set later with Blake's team to smooth things over and ensure that her side isn't feeding anything else, parentheses, and they know we aren't either. We have been given the assurance that they also want this to die. Let's please share the inquiries from people mag as I don't have that one here with the team and we will send it to Melissa too. This is an all hands on deck scenario.

0:28:22 Thomas: Steph Jones says, I didn't communicate with the Daily Mail or anyone else for that matter. Daily Mail did not tell Sony I called them, one, because I didn t and two, because a media outlet would never cite someone like that to another party. That's not how it works. Josh is aware of what's going on. Okay, so that's where I think Steph must have told Josh, hey, just turns out that the article here has the exact three posts that I sent to Jen Abel.

0:28:49 Thomas: Now, what time was this? If we can figure out that Josh contacted Jen after this, but I don't,

0:28:56 Lydia: We do have that somewhere. Let's see.

0:28:59 Thomas: Yeah, why don't you look that up? I'll keep reading. Josh is awareof what's going on, Leslie Sloan may wrongly assume this is coming from Justin's side, but the Daily Mail story is solely about the three media posts that Henry sent to you this morning at 8 11 a .m. Eastern Time. I wasn't aware that he had sent you those until Daily Mail inquired hours later. Let's align on comms plan as I need to be in loop on media communications and plan. Please ensure I'm on those texts and emails. Thanks. Now, one thing that I can't remember if we've talked about that is creating all this tension is that they are actively trying to cut out Steph Jones. Jamie Heath and Jen and all of them, they've like created a separate text thread where they're like doing the PR without Steph Jones, and so that's making a lot of this problem where Steph Jones is like, hey, here's this, and it's like they might be already talking about her, they might be doing other things without telling her, but that's totally nonsense because that's part of Steph Jones's case for tortious interference and all that because it doesn't make sense that They would like cut her out. So that's part of what's creating this weird awkwardness. So then Jen says, just communicating what we were told by Sony. And yes, we've been in lockstep with the social team to flag in real time. The plan for now is just to forward all requests here and not to respond. Steph Jones says, Leslie never communicated that to Sony nor to Daily Mail.

0:30:15 Thomas: Well, now that's where she might be kind of wrong. I don't blame her. But Leslie did communicate that because Leslie was under a mistaken thing. So but it's an understandable mistake for Steph Jones to make. Because again, Steph is certain that she didn't talk to Daily Mail. So I can imagine being Stephanie and being like, that didn't happen. So yeah, this is bullshit. Yeah, she's like sure that Jen's making this up, which interestingly is not really what's happening. Like Jen is to the best of her knowledge telling the truth, I think here.

0:30:32 Lydia: And being like pretty certain and hard headed about that. Yeah mm hmm

0:30:44 Thomas: Because in our opinion, she comes across as like she truly believes, has been convinced by Melissa that Steph Jones is responsible for this. So Steph Jones says, Leslie never communicated that to Sony nor to Daily mail. Mail, who at Sony told you this, Jen? And then Steph says, what time is call with Leslie as I would like to join, or I can shoot her a text now to coordinate call to ensure she is good and knows this isn't us. Then Jen says, Danny, who the, and answering the question, like who at Sonny told you this, Danny who then was communicating with Josh and Gloria. Josh then texted me accusing me of being, oh, that's interesting. Huh? Wait, then would that happen after?

0:31:20 Lydia: I don't know. I'm trying to find the thing where to see if we can get a time on it.

0:31:24 Thomas: Huh? That's probably just going to be in the timeline right so josh then texted me accusing me of being the one who called daily mail as we were boarding okay so it's as they were boarding well then that has to be before okay so that's interesting I think that hasと be before steph jones talked to josh because if it was as we Were boarding

0:31:27 Lydia: Oh yeah probably. But I didn't I don' think I saw it.

0:31:45 Lydia: Yeah well and look at the time that Steph Jones was going to take the call from Josh.

0:31:51 Thomas: Yeah, it was like eight minutes ago

0:31:51 Lydia: It was yeah it was after lunch right.

0:31:55 Thomas: It was. I thought it was like three or maybe I'm wrong

0:31:56 Lydia: It was like two something oh no 12:12 37 yeah

0:32:03 Thomas: Is it an hour before this and Steph and Jen has been messaging and there's no indication that she was boarding during that time. I mean, I guess it's possible now that I think about it, but this would seem to indicate that it was before Steph. So I don't, we still don't know right now why Josh thought it was Jen Abel. And that's just such an interesting thing because it either means that Leslie somehow like didn't think it was Steph and communicated to Sony in such a way that made them think it was Jen or something. I don't know, or, or Steph talked to Josh before this or something. I don't know. Weird.

0:32:40 Thomas: It has to be in the complaint or the timeline. It's gotta be in one or the other.

0:32:38 Lydia: I just can't find It's in Wayfarer's

0:32:45 Thomas: It has to be either in Wayfarer's complaint or timeline. I think, cause I think that's where we, Oh wait, no, I'm sorry. It'S in Steph Jones. Yeah. It's in Steph Jones. Cause that's where she said like the lie worked because Sony was blah, blah. Yeah, so check that. Okay. And this is just interesting cause it gets heated here. Josh then texted me accusing me of being the one who called daily mail as we were boarding. I straightened it out there. So no action needed. Jamie and the team I straight I love that like I straightened it out that it was fucking Steph Jones probably so not actually needed Jamie andthe team are aware of all let's not do anything further as when we land we oh okay so they're still flying so I guess it could that timing could have been after Steph okay yep okay

0:32:51 Lydia: One yeah all right here it is August 8th at 1600 UTC

0:33:28 Thomas: We can piece this together

0:33:30 Lydia: Yeah, I mean the message from Josh, Hi Jen, been informed you have been speaking to sites about bad blood between Blake and Justin he was good on today's show the negative story breaks would hurt the movie so josh greenstein sends this message to Jen Abel at 9 a .m. Pacific. That is before, not just before the call with Stephanie, but before Leslie tells Dani that it's

0:33:44 Thomas: Wow so that's for Leslie how do we know

0:33:53 Lydia: Stephanie because we have Leslie's text to Dani. We had mentioned it before that it is confirmed that Leslie spoke with Sony about it and her understanding of the situation. She told Dani what's essentially 8 .30 a .m.

0:33:57 Thomas: That oh yeah yeah oh yeah super early uh

0:34:05 Lydia: Pacific and then Josh texts Jen at 9 a .m. Pacific, even though. So Leslie says it was Stephanie and then Josh reaches out to Jen for some reason.

0:34:16 Thomas: That's see that's so weird we so that that is so

0:34:19 Lydia: The timing does make sense then. Then if it's Leslie that's sharing this information that she has been told to Sony Communications, Sony Marketing, they take it up the chain. But then what happens for them to reach out to Jenn instead of Stephanie? Right.

0:34:25 Thomas: Weird yeah we still don't know why Josh reached out to Jen because later Leslie Sloan says at 12 p .m. and that's Eastern right Leslie Sloane says I asked Josh to call Stephanie and say I would just say you were informed that she has been speaking with sites about the bad blood between Justin and Blake wait but that that's like exactly what he said but with Jen I wonder if he just like misunderstood or like took it to mean like oh it's Jones works And Jen is the one that's been working on that. That must be it. This is so funny because it's such a weird detail that's like killing us. That has to be it because that's at 12 p .m. What time did Josh contact Jen Abel?

0:35:02 Lydia: Could be. Yeah 9 a .m. Pacific.

0:35:15 Thomas: That's like exactly at that time. It's like literally as she's. So that would mean like they did it literally that minute. It is actually exactly atthat time. So I guess he would he would have to be very quick. Like it's at the minute like 12 pm is when. Oh, but OK. Okay, so Leslie Sloan is telling Danny that she told Josh. So she could have told him a little bit before. That's right. Okay. So Leslie Sloane told Josh a littlebit before that. And okay, that has to be it. Josh has to have interpreted that as Jen for some reason. That's the only thing that makes sense.

0:35:46 Lydia: Yeah that it's not Stephanie Jones in particular. It's Jones works and the person that's been working on it.

0:35:49 Thomas: Yeah, maybe. Okay, maybe that's the game of telephone is in Josh's mind. It went down as Jones works. Who's been working on it is Jen. That's only this is so fucking weird that this happened.

0:35:59 Lydia: All these people need to be better communicators

0:36:01 Thomas: Yeah, well, it's all just, again, the perils of human communication. It's so funny because in Leslie's book that went down as I asked Josh to call Stephanie oh and it's call but the fact that she says I would just say you were informed that she has been speaking to sites that's like identical to the language that Josh uses isn't it yeah so that yeah Josh has to just have interpreted that as Jones works and

0:36:19 Lydia: Yeah, yeah Been informed have been speaking to sites about bad blood. Yeah Yeah, right. And

0:36:26 Thomas: Then went to Jen because she's the one who yeah

0:36:28 Lydia: Then Jen was probably really bothered by that, spoke to Jamie. Jamie connected with Josh to say, no, it's Stephanie. Do you want to talk to her on the phone?

0:36:35 Thomas: Yeah yeah and then that happened later

0:36:38 Lydia: And that happened later. Right. So it's interesting, though, because like we talked about the perils of gossip and in all these ways. And dann the way that this gets cited in Jones v. Abel in the complaint itself, which we've talked about, where it says key players in the film's release, including Josh Greenstein, believed correctly that Abel was the person responsible for the story. And then they use that text as evidence for that. But Abel denied being the source and instead falsely told Sony's communications team that Jones was the leak. So these things have like, yeah, yeah.

0:36:58 Thomas: Right yeah yeah You can't really fault. So Steph Jones is kind of incorrect there. And I said that earlier. She's kind of correct, but you can't fault her for that. I don't I think that like she. No, no, I know.

0:37:13 Lydia: No, I know. It's just how this stuff spirals out of control.

0:37:16 Thomas: But I think what's interesting is when I said Steph Jones was playing a little fast and loose in her complaint, it turns out she was wrong. Turns out Danny and whoever were saying it was Steph Jones. Danny and Kim were saying it was Seth Jones. Now I agree with her for saying someone named someone called Seth Jones, like Jamie Heath is an idiot. He just decided to say someone named Stephanie Jones or whatever. That's him entirely, entirely making that up.

0:37:21 Lydia: Kim. Yeah, especially quote.

0:37:42 Thomas: I am hearing from Sony that quote, someone named Tiffany Jones. There's absolutely no way they said that. So what a weird thing, But here's what we can infer, because I had said when we first, first covered this and I saw that Josh thing, I had said, oh, maybe Josh has connections and actually like sussed this out that it was Jen. That can't be true. So that eliminates that.

0:38:03 Lydia: I think he's just, yeah, a higher up executive who, you know,

0:38:06 Thomas: Who heard from Leslie and interpreted Stephanie to mean Jones works, I guess. So freaking weird.

0:38:09 Lydia: Jones works. Yeah. And then moved on it quickly as he's, you know probably expected to do so.

0:38:13 Thomas: Yeah. And then later called Steph Jones. Jones. And so in a way, I guess Steph Jones, her complaint is accurate in that it did work for them to blame her. So I can't decide if I was wrong earlier. She wasn't really playing fast and loose, but I guess I would amend that to say when she represents in those messages that there's no way Danny or Kim said that, that's kind of wrong because they did say that it was her. But it is true that there is no way they would say someone named Stephanie Jones.

0:38:42 Lydia: Well, and also at the time that she's drafting this, she doesn't have access to Leslie Sloan's text with Danny. Right? So she doesn' t know. She only knows what she knows, which is primarily through Jen Abel's texts. Right, so to the best of her knowledge, that that's the story that makes sense with the information that she has.

0:38:58 Thomas: So all All this is to say, I don't think Jen planted it. The whole thing where coincidentally or not, the post is the very same three social media posts, the article is the same three. If that were Jen Abel doing that, that would mean she did that completely independently and didn't even tell Melissa. Yeah.

0:39:14 Lydia: Mm hmm. When she's been happy to brag about other things and shit talk in other places.

0:39:23 Thomas: And it would be weird. Like it wouldn't make any sense. I actually think what might happen and going back all the way to when I said, this might just be a massive miscommunication. I think that was a coincidence. I think if, if Steph Jones's team found three posts and was like, these are interesting, then I guess that means whatever they, whatever they were doing to look up posts was kind of what the Daily Mail did. And we're like, oh, these Are interesting. They haven't used the same ones.

0:39:47 Thomas: Otherwise, I don't know. I don' know. Or if Melissa was in on that, I guess That's the other thing it could be is if Melissa Was in on That conversation, like Jen shared those posts with Melissa, which could be, then you could still think Melissa did it. Known what?

0:39:58 Lydia: But then but then theoretically stephanie jones would have known that because she had jen abel's phone if jen able shared those three specific posts with melissa you know no but I think it would have been another

0:40:09 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, true. True. It wouldn't prove that Melissa did it. Oh

0:40:16 Lydia: Piece of evidence that they could have

0:40:18 Thomas: Wait, what is, yeah. And what does Steph Jones say that, cause she says that either Jen or Melissa did, I can't remember now. At the time she thought Jen did it and now she said Melissa does it.

0:40:24 Lydia: Included she she says jen I think so

0:40:28 Thomas: So maybe that did happen. Like maybe she did see that Melissa also had access to that. I don't know.

0:40:32 Lydia: I don't know and then offers no screenshot of that

0:40:43 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:40:44 Thomas: Okay. So as you heard there, that was sort of where progress stopped in terms of this new analysis we were able to do. So it's mercy rule. We're putting a stop. The ref is blowing the whistle. We'll be like, no more. No more infliction of thoughts about this particular interaction. We've got to move on. And so we're going to move on. Closing thoughts, including any other instances of Melissa Nathan in other things we've covered.

0:40:54 Lydia: We got to keep going. Yeah. Oh, boy, howdy.

0:41:13 Lydia: Do I have some thoughts? If you don't listen to opening arguments, first of all, what are you doing? But we've been covering a lot of Epstein stuff over on opening arguments. And if you are deep in the weeds in the Lively Baldoni case, you will know that one of our frenemies from the show is in the Epstein files, Melissa Nathan.

0:41:33 Thomas: I don't think we're friends in any sense.

0:41:35 Lydia: Yeah, that's true. Frenemy of me is probably like too kind of a yeah

0:41:37 Thomas: Like was Sauron the frenemy of Gandalf or you know what I mean? Like might be a bad example, actually, because I think they do have some sort of history back before. Never mind. I'm going to stop talking right now.

0:41:42 Lydia: Yeah that's fair oh interesting yeah I don't know that lore you'll have to fill me in later but yeah so uh and it's not like that she was you know named in an article that was shared in an email or

0:41:52 Thomas: I'm so rusty on it. But, you know,

0:42:01 Lydia: Anything like that. She worked for a health sick um PR firm over in New York and they did some work for Jeffrey Epstein and she specifically was in attendance, apparently, at a brunch and named as part of the invite list, which was basically Epstein, Hiltzik, and her.

0:42:01 Thomas: You're right. Yeah. Yikes.

0:42:19 Lydia: And of course, Brian Friedman came out with a statement trying to distance Melissa Nathan and Tag from Epstein. And that blew up spectacularly because the evidence is right there. I mean, unless there is some other explanation, but it is definitely scaring them because there's also a lot of evidence of bot activity going around on TikTok talk and Instagram and Twitter and all the places and stuff just copy pasted the same exact comment from a variety of different accounts that don't actually exist. Basically saying like this is misinformation. Melissa Nathan never worked for Jeffrey Epstein or variations of that. But it's it's pretty shocking when you see it all next to each other. So so they're scared and it's not looking good. So I'm really excited that we've spent a lot of time tackling this person and her her

0:43:04 Thomas: Yeah, we should tackle her. Somebody should tackle it. I think she's a psychopath.

0:43:09 Lydia: Seemingly penchant for lying.

0:43:10 Thomas: I think he might be amoral. There's something not right with that one.

0:43:14 Lydia: Yeah, something's not right. Yeah. So happy to share those updates kind of after the fact here.

0:43:20 Thomas: Yeah, well, keep an eye on the somehow not zero connections between the Epstein files that we're covering on away. Way in this case the not zero amount of connections all right well thanks so much for listening everybody this was important to get out this was we finally we're moving past it on to bigger and better things except not really because we're still going through this complaint but we're moving on

0:43:27 Lydia: Yeah it's crazy. Yeah we are but it is big and not better but it it is Big and we're making we're Making some

0:43:46 Thomas: It's big yeah we're gonna finish this damn thing

0:43:49 Lydia: Really good progress we're gonna finish it and I'm so excited I can't wait we're going to keep working through this monster that they they decided to put out for basically no reason, but I'm glad we're going through it.

0:43:59 Thomas: And it's pretty much sucked all the way through we'll see if it continues to suck all right thanks so mucho listeners gavilinos

0:44:31 Lydia: So when I look at UTC to Pacific converter, this would be at 8 a .m. Pacific when Josh messages Jen, assuming that's correct. Then I looked at when, okay, let me do, uh, so let's see, this Would be

0:44:34 Thomas: Adios now there's a weird thing with daylight saving so are you doing specifically that day converter or are you going now yeah you have to do like a specific time yeah August 8th

0:44:54 Lydia: 2024 and the August 8th. Why doesn't it let me change the the date? Oh, there it goes. August 8th. Okay. Okay, no, that changes. Yeah, never mind. Now it's 5pm.

0:45:05 Thomas: 2024 so what does that mean wait 5pm what oh wait what no something must be yeah yeah

0:45:10 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, previous day. So well, weird. Okay? Yeah. So oh, no. It reset my time. Sorry. 4pm on that day. Nevermind. Is 9am Pacific. Okay well, let's see. Yeah GMT. Okay Okay.

0:45:24 Thomas: Oh shonen gmt minus 4 it says so then we just need to add add four so then it's 15 they start talking oh no you're right

0:45:33 Lydia: Well, GMT is the same as UTC. GMT minus four to Pacific. So, okay. God, this is so confusing. So if that's 11 a .m. No, that doesn't make any sense. It says GMT 11 a。m.

0:45:42 Thomas: Sorry yeah I asked josh to call stephanie what's ut what's

0:45:52 Lydia: Would be. So what is that?

0:45:53 Thomas: No it's gmt minus four um

0:45:57 Lydia: GMT to PST converter. Okay.

0:45:58 Thomas: Uh gmt -4 uh I think it might be east coast um gmt minus four is what damn

0:46:08 Lydia: Yeah. It must be East Coast because it says la is gmt minus seven in the summer okay so east coast time I said it was 9 a .m and then oh

0:46:11 Thomas: It yeah yeah so if that's east coast time so then at eight because because she tells him at 8 31 a .m pacific which makes sense because she got hurt what

0:46:28 Lydia: Okay then yeah then the time then what I'm saying doesn't is wrong