Lively v. Baldoni 56 - They Had Us Down There With the Soda Bottles. THE SODA BOTTLES, I SAY!

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:01 Clip: All rise. Court is now in session. Court is reconvened. I may be seated. Maintain order. The federal rise to face the jury and harken to its verdicts.

0:00:25 Thomas: Gavalin, Gavalinos, it's Thomas and Lydia. How you doing?

0:00:30 Lydia: Hello, I'm doing okay. I think we know what we're talking about today.

0:00:33 Thomas: Yeah, I'm so excited because we're moving on from the text. Now, the funny thing is we're moving on to two days in the past. We're Benjamin buttoning this thing and we're moving on the past, but that's because we, in backtracking, doing a forensic audit of our podcast, we had gotten ahead on the timeline, which is all the exhibits, we got ahead of ourselves. The actual complaint, which we're on page 106 of 224 of, although I hope a lot of those pages later on are going to be stuff we don't have to do because it's law and yeah. No peeking.

0:00:37 Lydia: We are. We're moving on, but we're going backwards.

0:01:00 Lydia: Yeah, I think so. I'm not peeking ahead. I do when I read a book, you know, and I try to see, okay, how long is this chapter? Do I want to commit to that? I'm trying not to peek ahead to see when the causes of action are listed and things like that. But I won't say anything. Yeah, I'm not going to look. I'm not going to look

0:01:13 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, don't tell me who wins. Yeah but I'm excited we get to move on from that text exchange. I hope that our three remaining listeners are as excited as we are to move on. Um, I just, I don't, I don't have any sense, you know, like I can't, I can spend a whole lot of time trying to think about what people think of like the shows and all that. Like sometimes I'm trying to be like, oh, you know obviously you want to be like, well this will be better than that or this will do this direction. But like for the most part it's really you can get lost in that. So I just try to do like what's interesting to us, you know.

0:01:40 Lydia: Yeah and then once it goes out you have to stop thinking about like how it's going to be perceived really

0:01:54 Thomas: Oh yeah. By the time it goes out I'm done. I've moved on to another thing. But it's just, I only think about it when it's relevant. Like should I change something,

0:01:57 Lydia: Like you've quit the show yeah right

0:02:01 Thomas: You know? And so when we're doing this though, like going through this text, I'm like, I've lost all ability to have any idea. Like I'm just so, cause it's just such a mind puzzle that we had to solve that. Like, I just, I don't know. Sorry. We had to move on. We Had to Do It. We Had To Do It? Yeah. And now we're moving on and all three of our listeners are as excited as we are.

0:02:11 Lydia: Right mm -hmm the Rubik's Cube of gabble gabble yeah yeah

0:02:22 Thomas: So we'll take our first break, which you can avoid at patreon .com slash gavelpod. You're but not you yeah darn it the time travel gets so confusing but if you're not on patreon you're not hearing this now then

0:02:30 Lydia: All three of you oh boy then

0:02:39 Thomas: Damn it. Anyway, you'll get stuff early if you're on patreon.com and you'll get extra stuff and no ads so thank you to those who support us we really appreciate it we're also to the point where we have too much like Matt and Liz both messaged us or like, hey, let's do this stuff. And it's like, yeah, we might have to just start doing some amount of it on Patreon or something. We just have too much.

0:02:48 Lydia: I might be working on something behind the the scenes too that our patrons are gonna get first dibs on so Oh my God, yeah, I want to do this trial. I want to do this trial yeah yeah a lot of important things going

0:03:09 Thomas: So we'll see. Anyway, thanks so much. We'll take a break and we'll get on. We'll move on to two days in the past.

0:03:25 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:03:25 Thomas: All right. Paragraph 166. This is not Melissa Nathan. Yeah. Moving on.

0:03:30 Lydia: On okay we get to talk about baldoni again while in sweden celebrating his wife's he's your favorite character uh celebrating his life's birthday baldoni was informed that lively demanded he not attend the film's premiere on august 6 2024 lively further threatened that if baldoni attended ended the premiere, she and the majority of the cast would boycott. It remained unclear what Lively had communicated to or promised the cast, but they now also refused to attend if Baldoni was present.

0:03:33 Thomas: Love it. He's my favorite. Yeah, OK. So So we're losing our minds and we're pretty sure we've talked about this before, but also we went back and we haven't, at least in the recent thing. So sorry if we've done this before. We're just doing it. Yeah. Yeah. It's about time for you to do something, listener. Jesus.

0:04:04 Lydia: And if we have, then you need to prove it to us with timestamps because I'm not going to be gaslit.

0:04:14 Thomas: I feel like we're doing all the podcasting here.

0:04:16 Lydia: We're trying so hard. It remains unclear what Lively had communicated or promised to the cast but they also refused to attend if Baldoni was present, The fact that Sony advised Wayfarer to concede underscores Lively and Reynolds' immense power and influence.

0:04:27 Thomas: Yeah. Or that you sucked and too many people were like, this guy sucks.

0:04:35 Lydia: This is also a small point, but the apostrophe is incorrect in Reynolds there. They, yeah, they renamed him to Ryan Reynolds. Yeah, yeah.

0:04:39 Thomas: Oh, Reynolds. Yeah. Oh, wait. We've done. I swear we've gone back to. Oh, maybe it happened somewhere else. Reynolds. Remember, it was like a Reynolds, Reynolds, no then that doesn't make sense either reynold is there anybody named reynolds just like

0:04:49 Lydia: No, that's also incorrect. No, because I don't think that would be a last name. Maybe it is. I don' t know. Know yeah apparently apparently there's ryan reynolds yeah

0:04:57 Thomas: Reysold I can't think of anything oh well there's ryan reyold all right well but okay 167 I swear I've read this but we'll skip just go through just

0:05:08 Lydia: Baldonian wayfarer refused to succumb to the bullying tactics aimed at excluding them from the premiere of their film a project they had financed produced and owned yeah

0:05:11 Thomas: Like yeah once again I'll just quickly even though I feel like I'm in a time loop it makes it worse to emphasize how important you were to the film because that's like that's how much people hated you like you were so fundamental if you were the caterer and they left you out you'd be like oh okay that doesn't matter that much they weren't thinking of you you're literally the person of the film and everyone is like universally fuck this

0:05:39 Lydia: I just want to say time loop or not I think this is a good previously on because everybody's coming off of a batch of episodes that were specific to a group of text messages this isa good refresher for everybody even if we've already talked about it do you want us to talk about this or no are you good yep

0:05:42 Thomas: Guy yeah well if you I can just text our listener and be like do you remember this yeah hold on let me call him real quick point it may have been at the same point under different circumstances but the whole like this threat was just, we were just, they were going to kill us. They're going to murder us, but we, we, we braved through it. We just courageously said no and nothing happened. And it's like, okay, then it wasn't. This is the single reason, the most important reason why I actually don't know and don't think we've done this, but I want to make sure we do is the sentence beginning with however down, uh,

0:06:16 Lydia: Yep However they refused to give in to this entirely unreasonable demand and valiantly searched for a compromise with Lively yeah with a sword in hand so that they could attend the premiere of the film that baldoni had directed and co -starred in and that wayfarer had co -financed and produced heath moved mountains, yeah. No, no, that's literally the next sentence. Heath moved mountains to negotiate a scenario that Lively would permit with the help of Sony as Lively refused to speak to anyone connected with Wayfair. Why? Yeah.

0:06:31 Thomas: Valiantly. Wow. Yeah. What are they? Boromir? Having been shot with many arrows. Yeah. Heath moved. I thought that was you making a joke. No, that's the next sentence.

0:06:57 Thomas: Oh, why'd you do that? Because you suck?

0:06:59 Lydia: Hi, Jamie. Why did she refuse to talk to you?

0:07:01 Thomas: Is Jamie our one listener? That can't be.

0:07:04 Lydia: Wow, that would be a real mind F.

0:07:07 Thomas: That'd be interesting. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, we definitely haven't done this. So even if that was a, I don't know, but this, we for sure haven't done this, I

0:07:14 Lydia: Okay. All right. Just days before the film's premiere, Baldoni was still unsure if he would be allowed in quotes to attend yep yep his friends and family most traveling from outside New York were left in limbo unable to finalize travel plans or book

0:07:21 Thomas: Thought you already negotiated a valiantly thing. All right, whatever.

0:07:31 Thomas: And therefore I'm suing for the airfare of like, it's just not relevant to fucking a lawsuit at all. All. I feel like so many people who got hooked onto this just have no fucking idea what an actual lawsuit is now because of this 224 page nonsense. Let it suffice to say in case anyone's never read a lawsuit and we're not lawyers, but we've read now a lot of them. This is not normal. Yeah. We've been several, yeah. We're part of several iterations of them, but like, and even ours was closer to this than the standard, you know, cause we, we were in a situation where it was PR. Yeah, and I I guess, you know, some subset of lawsuits or PR, but this is just, this is insane. It's so fucking long.

0:07:34 Lydia: Flights yeah yeah and help draft one yeah yeah oh yeah because there was a pr element and yeah yep

0:08:13 Thomas: They're just not like this. They could be like five pages, you know, like it's just, you just are trying to establish like, here's what we're suing for. Here's a few of the facts, you know, kind of that on information belief essentially. And you put in enough to make sure you survive the motion dismiss, you know, where you're pleading the facts properly. So, I mean, 20 pages, but like 224 pages and then the 168 pages of exhibits is just it's just silly yeah

0:08:37 Lydia: It's crazy yeah despite still not having seen the final cut of the movie he co -starred co -financed and directed this is bold italics everybody

0:08:42 Thomas: Man what first I'm hearing of this he was in the movie and financed it and directed it well this changes

0:08:47 Lydia: Yeah he Wanted to celebrate the culmination of his years of work with his family and friends and we get a text message between justin and editor number two justin says well if you decide to change your mind last minute this is august 5th let me know and let's figure it out together I'm gonna be there that's just different timing and holding areas and theaters and all the things you can imagine it's still our film editor number 2 it would be very hard for me to sit and watch the quote final film for the first time at the premiere just cheer for us when and our names come up. Sending all love. Question. Elsewhere, they admitted that it was 98 % their film.

0:08:57 Thomas: Everything yeah yeah I don't know if that was like the other editor that actually worked with is this because remember there's the one editor and we at one point we had all their names but one that actually works with blake a little bit and then like is that it I think editor two might have been the one that was kind of on justin's side but also they might just be like have better things to do you know like oh it'd be hard for me to watch the final film for the first time anyway have fun like whatever who

0:09:48 Lydia: Enjoy. All right, moving down to paragraph 169. Finally, through Sony, Wayfair persuaded Lively to, quote, permit Baldoni and the Wayfairy team, along with their friends and family, to attend, though only under demeaning and humiliating conditions. They were relegated to a separate theater to view the film, required to arrive at a different time than the rest of the cast and instructed to leave the red carpet immediately once Lively arrived. Baldoni was also excluded from the official celebrity after -party, despite it being an event ultimately paid for by Sony and Wayfair. As a result, Baldoni had to quickly organize and fund a separate after -party for himself and the Wayfairy team, forcing the company to cover the costs for two events,

0:09:56 Thomas: Knows your honor I had to arrange separate accommodations for my party

0:10:30 Lydia: One for Lively and everyone else, and one for Baldoni and Wayfarer.

0:10:34 Thomas: Red carpet security okay actually read 170 it gets it's just so dramatic oh

0:10:40 Lydia: Upon arrival, Baldoni began participating in red carpet photos and interviews absent the presence of the the remainder of the cast. However, his time on the red carpet was abruptly cut short when it was conveyed that Lively was on her way and he was instructed to stop immediately. He and his family were quickly ushered away. Security personnel, acting as though there was a risk of, quote, escape, escorted Baldoni's group to the basement of the building. There they were confined to a makeshift holding area surrounded by concession stand stock. Yeah.

0:10:55 Thomas: Man no a makeshift holding area yeah we're placed behind bars you know a makeshit holding area there's like other like sex pests that had were like been there I've been in here 20 years waiting for my premiere johnny depp's down

0:11:22 Lydia: Yeah, as Dale mentioned in the bonus that we did, this is a standard green room setup.

0:11:28 Thomas: There yeah it's a green room yeah makeshift holding area it's so dramatic a makeshifting area

0:11:30 Lydia: With only fold-out tables and chairs arranged in a square. Surrounded by close friends, family. Yeah surrounded by close close friends, family, soda bottles, and a lot of love, the irony of being held in a basement on what was arguably one of the most important nights of Baldoni's career thus far was not lost on anyone. Yeah.

0:11:45 Thomas: What soda bottles what does that mean is it is he trying to say it's like it's a storage

0:11:54 Lydia: I think it's just trying to paint a picture. Yeah, it's just trying paint the picture.

0:11:57 Thomas: Room where they keep the soda bottles if it weren't for the fact that the internet massaging machine took his side so harshly imagine if like if he was a woman you'd be like oh poor woman can't even watch the a premiere without having to be around soda bottles you you know like if if it had been the if if genders had been reversed they would have roasted him for this like it's just so absurd I do see the soda bottles in the background

0:12:26 Lydia: Yeah the pallets of them. There is one soda next to Sam Baldoni in this

0:12:27 Thomas: Okay the pals in the backyard

0:12:31 Lydia: Picture, by the way. You can see it right there. Yeah okay. Scrolling through, True, that's the entirety of page 109, by the way, everybody, is this single picture to demonstrate that there were soda bottles in their space.

0:12:37 Thomas: Okay and they're cheering yeah I mean yeah okay they're in a space it doesn't look like a green room to me to be honest but it could be I mean green rooms aren't very like fancy usually but but uh whatever it's a a place with tables yeah oh they did oh the next one they did pose sitting on pallets of uh waters and

0:12:51 Lydia: Yeah, I think it all depends on the theater that's being used for the premiere and stuff and how they've set it up. Yes, next to Dasani.

0:12:59 Thomas: Yeah waters and soda okay that's

0:13:01 Lydia: Once the main theater was deemed, quote, clear of Lively and her guests, Baldoni and his group were ushered into a separate theater to view the film. At the conclusion of the screening, they were again quickly escorted out of the building by security to avoid even a chance of interaction with Lively or her guests. The Wayfarer after -party held separately from the celebrity event and

0:13:05 Thomas: Funny I don't believe the security thing like that doesn't make any sense like I I get look I might differ from dale a little bit and then I do not think this is exactly a green room down here I this this looks I mean he would know way better so you can trust him if I encourage you to not believe me but just my own eyeballs and brain it looks a little weird and the fact that they took pictures posing on the sodas makes me think that that's not normal they're like wow this is weird and it's not just just like it's a bunch of you know his friends and family like it'S I mean unless they were already thinking ahead to we need to emphasize this for something but I I feel like this was weird a little bit however I don't believe that security is fucking involved like building security is is like not in on the interpersonal personal details of who like I'm sure it was like Sony whoever yeah or just like all right now you guys can go over it wasn't like security is keeping him like they try to make him with a holding area and they try and make it sound like prison it's like so fucking dramatic yeah well no it's yeah it's it's they're under arrest or something they're trying to make it sound like

0:14:08 Lydia: Attended by crew, family, and other Wayfarer friends was a, quote, dry gathering in part to acknowledge god this is so obnoxious in part to acknowledge the known negative relationship between alcohol and domestic violence it was attended by the entire Wayfarer team from Los Angeles and their friends and family the atmosphere and tone of the Wayfarer after party were aligned with Baldoni's vision for the film focusing on celebration and gratitude despite being

0:14:28 Thomas: That oh shut up yeah doesn't that was your vision for the film my vision for the film is celebration gratitude despite being humiliated well you nailed it yeah this is stupid I think the dry the dry gathering is so fucking dumb yeah it's it's like we've been through this a little bit when it came to the betty buzz stuff they're just finding every which way they can to try to differentiate because he's a creep and is going to be outed as a creep so he's trying to differentiate and find ways to explain why he's doing a different thing but like nobody gives a shit if the people who made the movie have a drink at a premiere like you worked hard you're at your premiere have a fucking drink no one cares what what are we worried you're gonna abuse somebody like

0:14:56 Lydia: Humiliated yeah yeah this is completely irrelevant mm -hmm yeah right Right.

0:15:38 Thomas: Oh okay well that's maybe we are worried with you with that with baldoni but like that's not it doesn't it's just a weird empty virtue signaling thing that doesn't even do anything I think it's either made up or so artificially constructed to try to differentiate that it's It's like, I have no respect for that whatsoever.

0:15:46 Lydia: Mm hmm. Yeah. In the meantime, Baldoni was sidelined as Lively and Sony pressed forward with their promotional strategy for the film. By contrast, Baldomi's marketing plan outlined in his initial proposal to Sony years prior, shared with Lively, and communicated numerous times to both Sony and Lively centered on a partnership with the organization No More, which they continued to do that. And also, yeah, and here outlined in his initial proposal to Sony years

0:16:14 Thomas: Yeah. And it doesn't contradict this at all. We've cut, we've looked at that. Yeah.

0:16:20 Lydia: Prior doesn't mean, yeah, doesn't mean that they approved it, that they signed off on that. I don't know. Yeah, it could be.

0:16:25 Thomas: Are we in a time loop? Cause we've worked, I both don't think we've done this part of the complaint, but we've also done this. It might've been, is it looping around again? This is the problem with this fucking bullshit. But anyway, point, point was the evidence for him trying to say this was always the plan was so bad. I mean, it was, it Was like, I think I remember that before we went on our August 8th night thing. It was like, it was worse than not including it because it was like it said, like, hey, I think maybe now in the moment right now, not ahead of time, we should do something different, like literally that day. And it just like completely undercut the point he was making.

0:17:00 Thomas: So maybe it's just kind of repeating that. So we can go. We can just kind OF skip through that.

0:17:03 Lydia: Yeah, we can skip through this no more stuff that we've talked about, but we're going to get into some good stuff, I think, starting with paragraph 173. In the end, empowered by her celebrity firepower and her powerful allies, Lively did exactly what she set out to do. I know. No.

0:17:16 Thomas: You had the word power three times in like seven words. Yeah.

0:17:19 Lydia: I thought I messed something up after I read that. I was like, my mouth made the same movement too many times, one after another. That couldn't be correct, but it is. That's what they wrote. She took someone else's movie for her own, destroying years of creative vision.

0:17:32 Thomas: Yeah. Hold on. Lively did exactly what she set out to do.

0:17:36 Lydia: Yes. Well, wait, wait for it.

0:17:37 Thomas: Took someone else's movie for her own. Okay, good.

0:17:39 Lydia: She took someone else's film for her. Someone else's move for her on destroying years of creative vision and careful planning in service of her own brand building campaign. But why?

0:17:46 Thomas: I thought the movie was 98 % of what they said.

0:17:48 Lydia: Yeah, exactly. But why would Lively even seek to seize power over the film?

0:17:54 Thomas: Ooh.

0:17:54 Lydia: Why would she insist on taking on additional work for no additional pay or credit?

0:17:58 Thomas: I like when a legal complaint asks me questions.

0:18:00 Lydia: I love it.

0:18:02 Thomas: I don't know. Yeah.

0:18:02 Lydia: I think this is so hilarious. I don't actually love it, I think it's very silly.

0:18:05 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. This is its Benoit Blanc moment. But why would Lively seize power over the film?

0:18:11 Lydia: On information and belief, Lively may have been motivated by a number of factors. She may have wanted to seize control over the film so that she could take over the production of the sequel, It Starts With Us. This motivation also explains why the cast, who may have hoped and or been promised a role in subsequent productions, would choose to side with the powerful couple who themselves may genuinely believed they could destroy Baldonian Wayfarer and force them to cede or even sell the rights to the sequel. Yeah. Yeah. And if they don't want to sell it, they're not going to sell It. So how are you going to be forced to sell the right to the Sequel?

0:18:20 Thomas: How would that work? They, they, oh my God. Wayfarer owns the rights. Wayfarer owns the rights.

0:18:46 Lydia: Here's another theory that they have. Or Lively may have felt driven to match her star husband, Ryan Reynolds, who is widely reported to have insisted on taking so much control over the film Deadpool 2 that the director Tim Miller left the production.

0:18:58 Thomas: We get a footnote.

0:19:00 Lydia: Yeah, for the source from Men's Health.com. So the title does insinuate that he left because of Ryan Reynolds. Let me let me open this up. Yeah.

0:19:08 Thomas: Maybe yeah I don't know who knows

0:19:10 Lydia: I mean, I don't really, who cares? It became clear that Ryan wanted to be in control of the franchise.

0:19:17 Thomas: You mean the franchise that he's single -handedly like revitalized and made a

0:19:21 Lydia: Right. I don't think you can negotiate every creative decision. There's too many to make. So Ryan's the face of the Franchise and he was the most important component of that by far. So if he decides he wants to control it, then he's going to control it. Yeah. I don' t know. And also Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively are different people.

0:19:25 Thomas: Thing yeah yeah well the first theory was that they did it together and then the second theory is maybe she just was jealous of ryan and but what like your theory was already that like the couple was powerful and did this together but then like it's just fucking lazy

0:19:56 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:19:56 Lydia: Just skipping a little bit here. Following his lead and evidenced by many statements by Lively that he is involved in every project she works on and vice versa, Lively and Reynolds, accustomed to getting their way, perhaps felt entitled. Regardless of why, those are the only options they give us, by the way, regardless of why Lively insisted on seizing control of the film.

0:19:57 Thomas: Bullshit yeah hold on third option or maybe I fucking suck everybody maybe I really really suck hard. And they were like, we don't want him to be in control of a film, especially a film with this subject matter when he sucks.

0:20:25 Lydia: There can be no justification.

0:20:26 Thomas: But who's to say which of those three reasons it is?

0:20:29 Lydia: There can be no justification for her Machiavellian and civilly extortionate tactics deployed to grab complete control over the film." What we have found out since then is that she was trying to to negotiate a producer credit from the beginning. And Wayfair said, we can have that conversation later. So there's evidence to suggest that the involvement, first of all, she's been very clear in the public and, you know, in a variety of spaces that she signs on to projects where she feels that she can creatively contribute. She was clear to him.

0:20:57 Thomas: She was clear to him. We had the texts where she was like, I, one of the reasons I'm signing on with you fucking losers who have done two movies is that I want to have a little control, something she has every right to do. And They have every right today. Oh, that's not what we're looking for never mind yeah

0:21:13 Lydia: And Then beyond that, you know her kind of wanting credit for that, the producer credit, then them saying, you know, we'll consider it later down the line. OK, well, to me, as a woman who has been involved workplaces and things like that or opportunities to really try and excel and stand out and show off my performance and stuff, she then tried to step up and contribute over the course of production, pre -production, production, post -production for the film because they told her they would think about giving her a producer credit. So she's trying to demonstrate that she is worthy of that producer credit, and now that's being weaponized against her.

0:21:49 Thomas: I also think she just didn't have any respect for their skills and experience which is very much probably warranted heath has no fucking relevant experience like

0:21:52 Lydia: All of those things, I think, are true. Yeah, yeah, no, no.

0:22:00 Thomas: At all he shouldn't be anywhere near there and he was like the lead producer

0:22:04 Lydia: Mm -hmm.

0:22:05 Thomas: Right and baldoni I think we've seen that she's didn't think he knew what he was doing and I think she and then very quickly he was being a piece of shit and a creep and they're like well fuck this like there's There's nothing to explain here. Like, there's also nothing that she did wrong. Like, they were, well, I mean, I won't say that. Who knows if she, I don't, I guess I won'T make a blanket statement like that. But like, if this was egregiously wrong and was based on nothing, Sony wouldn't have gone along with it. And they could have just said no. Like, someone can't just steal a film based on Nothing, as I've said a million times. Like, it's the only reason she was able to exert control over some of these things is he knew that he had a very serious problem in terms of his shitty behavior. And he wasn't really in a position to fight it whose fault is that

0:22:47 Lydia: Yeah. Take some accountability. All right, we move on to section G. Lively's power grab and catastrophic miscalculation collapse on her. And we've talked about a lot of these things, so hopefully we can kind of speed through this section as well. But starting at least July 10th, 2024, Lively social media posts promoting the film maintained a lighthearted, frothy attitude, depicting Lively in glamorous and floral -inspired couture, highlighting high -end brands like Chanel and Christian Louboutin. Yeah.

0:22:58 Thomas: Instead she should have been pictures of her in makeup like she got abused and sad and crying that's the only serious way to promote it's just fucking stupid sexist nonsense

0:23:22 Lydia: Yeah. And so then we get exactly it's incredibly sexist and even more despicable when you have the lens of this is a person who has credibly accused you of sexual harassment in the hostile workplace environment. And now let me show you screenshots of her Instagram where we can then rally the online troops to start making fun of this person and to start going after her about X, Y and Z. So we get Instagram shots of Book Bonanza, of her, Colleen Hoover, Brandon Sklenert, like they're all wearing the floral jeans sort of thing that we had talked about before. Her in, you know, a dress saying one week away before the premiere. Another thing about flowers, another picture of her wearing a bunch of bangles on her on her wrist and some rings. Yeah.

0:24:06 Thomas: All right I want to say something and also ask you a question because I if people know me or listen to this I have no interest in any celebrity anything I don't care don't all this is dumb to me no I won't say that like not Not all of it is dumb to me. I get that some part of it is, you know, you got to promote what you're doing. I understand. But a lot of this stuff, like also because I'm just a fucking dude, I don't understand a lot the fashion element, the whatever, and I'm not critiquing it. I just don't get it.

0:24:31 Thomas: I don'T get a lot of that stuff. I want to make this point. To me, a lot of this does read as like fake or a little bit inauthentic or selling stuff or whatever. However, what you have to do is not judge it based on, hmm, do I want to hate somebody? Judge it based on like, is this par for the course for this industry or not and I think what so many people especially men can do is just turn on all their hypercritical whatever especially when it's on a woman who's doing fashion stuff and be hypercritic of it but if this is just kind of how this industry is and that's my question for you is she doing anything here that's like out of the ordinary for an actress really yeah I wouldn't think. Yeah.

0:25:09 Lydia: Exactly. No, absolutely not. I mean, they are they're constantly working with a team to curate social media always. And they're always looking to promote their projects. And one thing I will say that I've seen actually celebrities do this really, really consistently lately, which is great. And I'm seeing it here in Blake Lively's post, too, is that the only reason they're calling out Christian Louboutin and folks like that is because she's giving credit to the designers that she's wearing to the people that are helping put together her outfit. It's not always like high end brands either. She frequents small business owners and that drives traffic for them, too. Like this is such a normal part of being a celebrity. And I should know because I'm a celebrity I'm just kidding.

0:25:46 Thomas: Yeah, especially especially female celebrity. Right?

0:25:52 Lydia: Yes, absolutely.

0:25:52 Thomas: I mean, this is kind of like a good looking leading lady like this is what you're going to be doing.

0:25:54 Lydia: But I see this. I see this with, you know, like Coleman Domingo and his Instagram and, you know, Trammell Tillman. I see their stuff all the time. You know, it doesn't matter that it's just that you're a woman or anything like that. Like, I see it across the board. I follow like a few celebrities that I like really admire their work and stuff on Instagram. And this is just so absolutely normal. So normal.

0:26:16 Thomas: Yeah and so that's all the point I'm making like even if you're somebody like me who doesn't really identify with this kind of stuff I'm not really you know it's like I just whatever it's probably completely par for the course I haven't scoured his fucking Instagram to see what dumb shit like Like, I'm sure it's even I'll tell you this. He's even fucking faker.

0:26:34 Thomas: And we know that because he did a whole talk on being a great guy and all that. And he's not. So his shit is even more bullshit. But I haven't looked at it because that wasn't because her efforts, her legal efforts have been way more honest and way more based on the actual issues with obviously some amount of PR and counter PR because she needed to. But it isn't like, let's go through his Instagram for the past year and look at all the dumb shit, you know, like because that's not like. She did more of an actual legal thing. This is just sexism. It's just a chance to be like, to put a lens, a hyper -focused lens on a woman and she's damned if she doesn't, she damned if he doesn't because if she don't give credit to like who she's wearing, then she's selfish and trying to like take credit for stuff that's not her.

0:27:16 Thomas: It's a series of impossible choices where either answer will get you criticized because of sexism and it's just bullshit and you shouldn't participate in it, right?

0:27:25 Lydia: And here's the other thing, too. It's all about driving likes, engagement, traffic. Right. And like she's always tagging it ends with us movie in here. You have seven hundred ninety seven thousand hearts. One point six million hearts. One point one million hearts, six hundred five thousand hearts like it's consistent. And then you also see the sharing. And, you know, I don't know the nature of someone sharing it. Someone could be sharing and being like, this is dumb or like, I hate this outfit or I'm not a fan of Blake Lively. Who knows? But when you're sharing it often you're posting it to your story on instagram and then that gets seen by your followers whoever you may be so there's a lot of opportunity here it's all to benefit the movie not necessarily her yes

0:27:59 Thomas: The movie. Yeah any any other movie situation would be thrilled with this they'd be like fucking hey this is great she's tagging it constantly it's getting lots of engagement it's also you know I just had this thought I know this is pretty much 100 bullshit because justin baldoni we have seen the text he's trying to think of a way to differentiate and explain why he's been isolated but it's all so interesting too the sexist way that because she's doing a movie because this is a movie about domestic abuse she needs to like what not be happy or something like she doesn't get to like, you're associating her with the victim because she's the character who's the main victim in the movie, right?

0:28:25 Lydia: Yeah

0:28:38 Thomas: So like, do you need her to what, act more like your idea of what a victim would be because she is playing it in a movie? I don't even understand what the fuck that's supposed to be.

0:28:47 Lydia: That's not gonna get people to go out and see a movie be like like that's ridiculous I think the

0:28:48 Thomas: No, it'd be silly. Imagine she did that. Imagine if she posted more dramatic stuff. Again, false choices of our fucking sexist society. There's no right answer. Imagine she posts that stuff.

0:28:53 Lydia: Idea of

0:29:02 Thomas: They'd be like, this is dramatic and fucking weird. What are you trying to pose as a victim when you're not you're just an actress you fucking you know like every answer is wrong yeah

0:29:02 Lydia: Yes yeah yeah and I don't want want to go see the movie. Like what a weird marketing strategy for this. Like this makes me uncomfortable. Whereas I think focusing on the resilience in the face of trauma and abuse can be really, really empowering. And so why wouldn't you lean into that? Why wouldn't you lean in to these joyful moments? And again, the flowers are not out of place.

0:29:29 Lydia: She owns a flower shop in the movie, her name is freaking Lily Bloom. Okay, it makes sense. Yeah.

0:29:34 Thomas: Incredibly dumb yeah I can't believe that was the name she chose that colleen hoover chose but still

0:29:38 Lydia: So So now we're at paragraph 180. Lively, freely interspersed posts about her new movie, by the way, they say about her new movie. Like it's about, it's, it ends with us. It's like they're really just, it'S a small little rhetorical thing, but again, trying to make us think that it's possessed by her. With ads for her new hair care line, Blake Brown. Upon information and belief, the launch of Blake Brown was timed to coincide with the film's release in the hope that cross -promotional opportunities would boost sales for Lively's new brand.

0:30:09 Thomas: Yeah man probably what the fuck are you talking about oh really what got delayed

0:30:11 Lydia: No, it's actually the opposite. It's because this got delayed. It ends with us. The premiere of it got delayed, yeah. I think initially they were looking at like Valentine's Day, which is weird that it'd be like a February release. And so from my understanding, Blake Brown was always consistently going to, you know, launch August.

0:30:29 Thomas: Also this is nothing it doesn't matter if it Like no one else is selling. He was going to do like a fucking coffee table book thing.

0:30:36 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, coffee table book,

0:30:36 Thomas: What was that? Like noone else is trying to sell anything related with the promotion. This is nothing. This is hypercritical crap that's nothing.

0:30:42 Lydia: Yeah? And then we get some, yeah yeah.

0:30:45 Thomas: Cross promotions of alcohol, brand Betty Booze. This was a massive error in judgment. Nah, shut up. Who cares?

0:30:50 Lydia: And more screenshots there. Tellingly, Wayfarers spotted the issues.

0:30:54 Thomas: Tellingly? Tellingly. Huh. All the words are just a little off. You know, it's like somebody's right.

0:31:07 Lydia: It's not quite right.

0:31:07 Thomas: Like it's just stuff that bothers like pretty much mainly me. It's like that's, how is that telling? What is that selling of?

0:31:13 Lydia: Wayfair CEO Heath responded to the organic online criticism by noting that, quote, Many people are pointing out that the DV, domestic violence, is being glossed over and that Justin is essentially the only one appreciating the subject matter, whilst others may be not giving it the proper respect it deserves. As you know, this has always been a concern of ours. Dot dot dot oh and then we get the email that's directly below after they've hired jed wallace by the way friday august

0:31:26 Thomas: Fucking whilst so this is the email yeah and this is after we already know they're trying to do this right and after they already we know they'RE trying to differentiate so as you know this has always been a concern of

0:31:44 Lydia: 9th yep and they've already started getting questions from

0:31:54 Thomas: Ours and so it seems like Jamie's just trying

0:31:56 Lydia: Tabloids about you know it seems like there were issues on set blah blah blah yeah

0:31:58 Thomas: To keep calling this out grab your friends wear your florals why is that an issue by the way what's wrong with grab your friends okay you have friends wear YOUR florals yeah she owns a flower shop it's florals what's What's the, what's the problem?

0:32:10 Lydia: Because it's not serious it'snot a serious outfit

0:32:14 Thomas: Grab your crying and bring your very sad. I don't, what is this supposed to be? Bring your tattered clothing and sad faces.

0:32:18 Lydia: Choice yeah I know here's the other thing it's like it's also this commentary on like policing women's clothing like you're gonna actually say what someone should and shouldn't wear to a movie they're their own person they can decide what to wear this is again a marketing strategy connected to the protagonist of the film and things that are important to her flowers the beauty of flowers and the things that you can create with floral arrangements and celebrating someone's life and grieving somebody's death like those are all things that involve flowers like like funerals involve flowers all of this stuff involves flowers and you wouldn't say that people don't take funerals seriously because of the flowers.

0:33:07 Thomas: Those are all great points. I've seen them say a bunch of times how this is inappropriate. And the screenshot we get is someone saying tone deaf from the beginning. Wear your florals. What is that? What does that mean? Somebody explain that to me. Hey, some sexist asshole who's mad about this, explain what the problem with grab your friends, wear your florals is. Just put it in words.

0:33:16 Lydia: Here's the other thing. I mean, and we can kind of like parse out exactly when that comment happened. So this post went up August 9th, 2024. That post says three days ago, but then the one underneath says one week ago. So it could be.

0:33:40 Thomas: Well, well, this is now you can see above 21 weeks. So that's at the time of that screenshot. It's way after.

0:33:44 Lydia: Yeah. Right, right, right. So now you have someone who has consumed the smear campaign and then is going back and commenting.

0:33:49 Thomas: Wait, actually. Yeah. What the wait? Yeah. Hold on. But this is there. What the fuck? 21 weeks?

0:33:57 Lydia: So they just took the screenshot, I'm guessing.

0:33:59 Thomas: Yeah. But then what are they saying? Because because if he sent that, it says he sent That August 11th. Right. He said, good morning, sharing this post that's using the exact language that has been called out for inappropriately marketing the film. But that comment of tone deaf from the beginning, wear your florals, says three days ago, meaning 21 weeks in the future minus three days.

0:34:20 Lydia: Well, do we know that's the exact?

0:34:22 Thomas: So it sounds like, though, I think she's just sharing the post that says grab your friends, wear florals. And at that time, unless there was a different comment, maybe at the time she shared it, there was some other critical comment. But it just says sharing this post that's using the exact language that has been called out. So yeah.

0:34:39 Lydia: That's just referring, I think, to the grab your friends, wear your florals.

0:34:42 Thomas: And where's the call out? We actually don't have a call out. Do we have a contemporaneously called out thing anywhere?

0:34:49 Lydia: Not cited yet. Yeah we'll see. We'll see mm

0:34:49 Thomas: I don't see it. Yeah. But I think that's an interesting little like substitution there. Like it's a little like quick, what's the phrase? I'm like pulling a fast one.

0:34:55 Lydia: -hmm. Look at the dates of stuff. Yeah mm -hm.

0:34:59 Thomas: We get a screenshot of the post that allegedly Jamie Heath sent on August 11th saying, hey team, this language inappropriate marketing. And the top comment is tone deaf from the beginning. But that comment, we can tell, was way after this.

0:35:14 Lydia: Half of a year.

0:35:15 Thomas: And like the one below it is like, I love the movie. So like, yeah, 21 weeks. That's a long ass time later. And again, what is the problem with grab your friends, wear your florals? Just somebody explain to me why that's inappropriate. Okay, you're not allowed to have friends. No, okay, it's not. Is it the friends part? Can't be the friends.

0:35:27 Lydia: I can't. I don't think it's the friends part. No.

0:35:33 Thomas: Because if you're promoting a movie and you're like, don't fucking tell anybody that you're seeing this movie. Go in secret. Great.

0:35:38 Lydia: Yeah, that's not a smart business decision.

0:35:41 Thomas: Yeah. That's not a good business decision. So it can't be the friends part. Wear your florals. Tell me the problem with that. Baldoni, sexist, fucking whoever supports this. What's the problem?

0:35:49 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:35:49 Thomas: Tell me the problem in words that aren't going to be sexist policing of women's bodies and clothing, as you point out.

0:35:55 Lydia: Black.

0:35:55 Thomas: What is it going to be? Nope. You have to wear the old mourning, like the black with the veil. If you've been abused and you have to just say you're sad all the time, you're no longer to have happiness at all.

0:35:59 Lydia: You can only wear black. Yeah.

0:36:06 Thomas: Otherwise that means you weren't really abused you have because once you were abused if you and a lot of them actually think this like oh if she was sexually harassed why is she all like happy in these different parts like if it hasn't ruined your life to where you, I guess, jump off a bridge then you haven't actually suffered any abuse

0:36:23 Lydia: But here's the other piece of it, too. We're not inside her mind. So we don't know internally what's actually happening. But at the end of the day, this sucks. But celebrities like that's part of your business, too And so there could be times where she seems happy and she's not potentially inside But she has to do it because she has a fiduciary duty to you know, whatever brand So I think that's something to keep in mind, that we see what's presented to us outwardly. We have no idea what is happening truly in their hearts and their minds at that time.

0:36:53 Thomas: Absolutely, and I just can't emphasize enough: there is no actual problem with this language now I'm not going to say that there was never any problem. I don't know. Maybe she did something somewhere or maybe somebody did something that was a little. I don't know. Could have been a weird tone. I maybe, I don't know, but also I also want to acknowledge too, and I've said this before that maybe, and there probably was some amount of organic backlash because our society is sexist. I've made that point. And I'm, I'm curious, like, I think it's, you know, again, it's possible that we'll find out that Baldoni and Wayfarer didn't do all that much. It's possible. I don't know. We'll see. It seems like they tried. It sure seems like they did some things, but I, you know again, it could be just our sexist society. I'm going to, it's gonna be interesting to find out

0:37:41 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:37:41 Thomas: 184 has got some great stuff

0:37:43 Lydia: All right. Heath and others at Wayfair advised listening and responding to the wave of online criticism that had met the bubbly, sunny messaging that Lively herself embraced so wholeheartedly. Though Lively now claims that Heath Baldoni and others at Wayfarer sabotaged her by planting, quote, astroturfed media criticisms of Lively, it seems that if she had listened to and respected the Wayfarers' perspective and insights on the unique sensitivities of marketing the film, rather than seizing the helm and then driving the ship aground, $350 million, yeah, aground to a pile of cash, yeah.

0:37:46 Thomas: Here hmm yeah what's that part what are you talking about This is uh these fucking what you're about to hear is an asshole thinking he's the most genius person in the world. Are you ready for this no you guys sorry you gotta go back a little bit in that sentence

0:38:22 Lydia: Yeah. Most importantly, had she allowed Baldoni to take his... Oh, yes. Rather than seizing the helm and then driving the ship aground, everything would still be coming up roses for her.

0:38:33 Thomas: But um wow coming up roses for her that's you just fucking wow what a

0:38:37 Lydia: Man, it's funny. I'm such a musical theater person that I didn't even think about flowers with that. All I thought about was gypsy. Because I sing that in my head whenever I see that phrase.

0:38:45 Thomas: Burn, thank you and I'm such an Elliot Smith fan that I only think about the Elliot Smith lyric that's imagery involving drug use but still it's roses, yeah, coming up roses for fucking bullshit fucking arrogant dog shit like these people I don't know if it's Friedman—it reeks of Friedman to me but who knows could also be these idiots they're just not that smart like fucking Wayfarer Baldoni Heath and Friedman think they're geniuses and they're not that fucking smart oh my god yeah he can't I don't think he could string this many words together

0:39:00 Lydia: Oh, but still you're able to pause that and then put yourself in yeah what we're actually talking about yeah sarowitz too yeah most importantly had she allowed Baldoni to take his rightful place side by side with her in the promotion of the film Baldoni would assuredly have kept domestic violence in the spotlight during all promotions which would assuredly have prevented her from hurting her own image. Lively's, yeah, that's not correct, folks. Lively's reputational backlash was entirely her own doing. Here's another question. When I think about like movie production studios, and granted, Sony is a distributor, but it's not like it's, you know, fully independent venture. It's not it's any sort of kind of off the beaten path, you know, doing something different sort of movie production. Like you're talking about Sony which I think is probably pretty safe well and like safe in terms of choices I think if you were diving in and saying we're going to promote this film by just talking about domestic violence and like trying to save people maybe another production studio would have done something like that but not Sony I think Sony would be like that feels

0:39:45 Thomas: Which would assuredly had prevented okay experienced yeah mm -hmm yeah

0:40:33 Lydia: Not like a smart choice let's go with some of the tried and true stuff that we've done that make people want to go out to the movies it is so hard to get people especially post-COVID to do anything

0:40:44 Thomas: Yeah you don't want to be like buckle up for a bummer everybody and it's consistent with Colleen Hoover's vision of it. She didn't want it to be trauma porn, right?

0:40:52 Lydia: Yeah, exactly she didn't want it to be porn. She didn't want it to be trauma

0:40:56 Thomas: Yeah, just no porn involved. This is entirely fine. It's entirely fine, it's a standard, it is the choice you would make, and the alternative choice would be stupid. That's the thing. When people get in, and I feel like I know this as a dude, and you know it on the other end of it, when people get into finding reasons to critique women mode, it's amazing how much they can find. It's amazing. It's just like, oh, she shouldn't be saying, grab your florals. What the fuck? What is that? It's nothing. It's Nothing. And the alternative would be put some eye makeup on to make it look like she has a black eye. And she goes on the instance, five out of fucking seven women have been, like, it's just fucking stupid.

0:41:23 Lydia: Porn yep yeah yeah because then everybody else would be like that's virtue signaling that yeah exactly that's fake what are you doing

0:41:39 Thomas: Yeah, it'd be so stupid. It's way worse. It would be so dumb. Exactly. It would be completely roasted. Posted. And then we would have the same thing the other way, because what really happened was, again, they found a way to differentiate, which was savvy of them. Unclear if that's going to be legally okay. It might not have been. It sort of depends. Interesting legal question. I think it depends on exactly how they did it and what they did.

0:42:01 Lydia: The terms of their contracts yeah

0:42:01 Thomas: But savvy of these evildoers. No, the law, in terms of the retribution or whatever, in terms of the retaliation. So if it, you know, again, I think my understanding is if it's stuff that's more just focused on him and positive, like he would be allowed to do positive PR for him. And so it's an interesting line if he's trying to differentiate and say, I'm the one who's doing this. Because that inherently is, if you're differentiating from Blake, you're inherently kind of insulting her a little bit. Like you're coherently doing a negative on her.

0:42:29 Lydia: Especially because there's no shared opportunities for press with them it is completely siloed. So yeah, I think that would be

0:42:36 Thomas: Yeah, but I just mean, yeah, if you're drawing a comparison in a negative way, I think it's going to be interesting. I really don't know. No. And also, again, it really depends on the details, because, you know, it seems like we have enough indicia or whatever to be like, yeah, they're also trying to make negative stuff happen about her, which would be retaliation, you would think. But anyway, point is, that's the origin of this. The origin is that he needs to differentiate. So if she had gone the other way, if she had been all about the abuse and the whatever they would have got, they would have flipped and been like, I just think it's I think it's utilizing victims to make money. I think it's really gross to promote it in this way. I think we should, you know, like, yeah, you would do all that same shit because it's arbitrary. And then I love that they put this own thing in here. Like what this email. Yeah.

0:43:09 Lydia: Yeah in direct contradiction of the author's wishes yep oh this email yeah which I feel like undermines everything that they're trying to say it's

0:43:23 Thomas: And it also implies that they probably got a pretty stern email back that we don't see because the last one, just to refresh, Sunday, August 11th, 6:09 a.m. Well, we'll see if it's in the same fucking time zone and all that. But that was the one. Yeah. Later that day. So 2:54 p.m., we get this.

0:43:29 Lydia: Weird yeah at least it's from jamie both times so yep yeah jamie emails sony team and jennifer abel's listed there as well to be clear we are not saying it's been inappropriately marketed in any way.

0:43:50 Thomas: Oh, that's weird. Why did you highlight that? Okay. Yeah.

0:43:53 Lydia: Also, why are you taking all this language then in the complaint to say it's being inappropriately marketed?

0:43:57 Thomas: Very weird.

0:43:59 Lydia: In fact, you all have been brilliant. Thank you. Extremely honored to be partners with you. It's been fantastic. The proof is in the pudding. Oh my god, I hate like all those short little sentences too. It just ugh. This post is only pointing to the ones who have spoken about the marketing.

0:44:14 Thomas: This post is only pointing to the ones. What? I don't, okay.

0:44:18 Lydia: And while I am not dissuaded by their commentary, it's good to take some learnings from it.

0:44:24 Lydia: I know and trust you understand the point and I look forward to discussing it with you all. Congratulations on a huge, huge success. You play a big and amazing part in it.

0:44:31 Thomas: That email, look, you've been at many a workplace. That feels like he got something back that was like, hey, fuckstick.

0:44:38 Lydia: Oh, it's damage control. This is damage control, yeah.

0:44:40 Thomas: Yeah like it feels like someone responded and was like hey dipshit look at our numbers. We're doing great or something. I don't know who knows. Who knows how harsh it was but because like you don't send that email for no reason, especially because we know he was trying to do the artificial thing we're talking about and differentiate and plant that seed. I feel like he must've gotten something pretty harsh back.

0:44:59 Lydia: August 11th.

0:44:59 Thomas: I don't know. But who knows? Oh, have we checked the timeline for that? Is that, let's see, what date was that? Oh okay, hold on. That means we gotta go forward in the timeline finally. Oh, we gotta catch up with our timeline.

0:45:05 Lydia: Oh shoot, yeah. Okay, we got some emails from Jamie to Sony too.

0:45:12 Thomas: Yeah. Nice. Yeah, I think we've discussed this, but in the timeline there was the rooftop scene where, again, I think Blake put her foot in her mouth and said that Ryan wrote that scene or whatever. I think we've talked about that, I'm sure.

0:45:25 Thomas: I think she was trying to do a deferential thing in that moment and try to give her husband more credit than he probably should have gotten. And then she quickly took it back and whatever.

0:45:32 Lydia: We have. Also, that's a little bit of like, I think, a protective mechanism too, where like, she's just, yeah, and she's been through hell, right? And so I think like, it is almost kind of like, you know, it isn't just me, you know, yada, yada, yada, and pull in a man because that people are less likely to go after him.

0:45:39 Thomas: So she's not taking credit for it. Yeah.

0:45:46 Thomas: Yep. Yep. Yep. Well, on that realization that we've got a little bit to do and backtrack and go on the timeline and some interesting stuff, emails with Sony and all that, that I think maybe we'll pause here and call it an episode. It was a lot of fun to not be talking about the same messages over and over as it's, you know, back into the love of the game, you know? Oh my god, yeah, I haven't had to try to read anything. Oh man, it's been great. We're back on the swing of things. This was fun. Thanks everyone for listening. Next time we're going to talk about, we're after, don't worry, we'RE after the eighth and ninth stuff, but there's a little bit that happened on the ninth where on the timeline Heath is trying to break up with Jones Jones and Jones works which we saw how that went and

0:46:07 Lydia: Yeah. And us having to go zoom enhance, zoom enhance. Yep. Nice.

0:46:44 Thomas: Also we've got some premiere stuff we've got the rooftop scene stuff that they had some correspondence about that's interesting and we'll be on our merry way we'll keep going yeah nice to you that's I guess what yeah

0:47:11 Lydia: Damn it. Just if it's something that we're, scroll up forever.

0:47:18 Thomas: Unbeknownst, oh yeah we had the screening thing yeah uh Well, that was, no that was a different thing yeah it was different pronounced

0:47:19 Lydia: Oh, we talked about unbeknownst. Unbeknownsta. Oh that That was a different Benotst.