DOD256: What If Your Friend Starts Dating Your Ex...

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that doesn't have enough time to write a pithy intro because Eli has to record immediately after this recording. I'm Tom Curry. I've joined, as always, by Eli Bosnick and Thomas Smith. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:40 Eli: Pew pew pew!

0:00:41 Thomas: Look, I know I'm not monogamous, but Tom, how do you handle the fact that, you know, we're on a date and then our date is like, oh yeah, can we cut this short? I got another date after this.

0:00:43 Tom: We're speed running. Running.

0:00:52 Thomas: How do you handle that is what I want to know.

0:00:52 Eli: Well, and consider especially that you show up 15 minutes late for all of our dates. How does that feel? First, take into account that you are 8 minutes late for every single date we have ever been on.

0:01:09 Thomas: I can't tell if you're talking about me or are you talking about him? Cause either one. Oh, okay. Yeah. I was like, I wasn't sure who. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

0:01:10 Tom: Both

0:01:12 Eli: Oh, both of you! It's both of ya! You take turns. You take turn.

0:01:13 Tom: Of us. Yeah, it's both of us, yeah. No, I'm routinely late. I am constantly and routinely late, that is true.

0:01:20 Eli: I'll say Tom Clean Fresh doesn't show up more often than Thomas does, but Thomas doesn't show up without warning more often than Tom does, so it's fun.

0:01:30 Tom: It's nice, yeah,

0:01:31 Thomas: That has happened a couple of times. I've been in a solid coma and Lydia has to unplug the machine and then get the, and then like the doctors come in, they rub the two irons together for the clothes and then they put it on me. It burns a lot. Uh -huh. That is what happens.

0:01:43 Tom: Clear, yeah right, right, yeah yep.

0:01:45 Eli: Besorp you, and then you come podcast with us.

0:01:49 Tom: What do you use to wake up, Tom? Do you use a regular alarm clock?

0:01:52 Thomas: Uh, just my phone. Yeah.

0:01:53 Eli: Stop trying to sell him on shock clock.

0:01:55 Tom: You gotta get electricity electricity involved, like big electricity, you know, like, come on. Yeah.

0:01:58 Thomas: Boy. Well, I assume the

0:02:00 Eli: Cow electricity. Livestock electricity.

0:02:03 Tom: You got to just just hook it up right to your balls. You will not oversleep. I'm just saying you will not oversleep at all. It's great because

0:02:03 Thomas: Phone has some. Well then why aren't you on time all the time?

0:02:11 Tom: I'm просто constantly mismanaging my time.

0:02:12 Thomas: It's too busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:02:14 Eli: Yeah, because Tom has a grown -up job, and there's a moment in the middle of a conversation that was supposed to end at blank where he should go, sorry, guys, I've got a good podcast, that he doesn't because he likes eating food 100 % of the time.

0:02:29 Tom: I am the king of mismanage my time like I will. I constantly underestimate how long everything is going to take because I've got to get like six things done. I have five units of time to do So I'm just going to decide that's possible. And then I'm like, if nothing goes wrong and everything is perfect, this will work out exactly as it should. And, of course, that isn't how life is. So I am always running, like, at least a few minutes late to everything. I have no idea what else to do about it.

0:02:57 Thomas: Try so hard to be on time for this, you know and it's I've been worse lately I've regressed I regret I've regressed

0:03:02 Eli: That's crazy. That's insane. We would have to have different definitions of the word try.

0:03:08 Thomas: Hey remember that one time that we recorded around the time of my time Pacific time that normally you guys record on your time and I was there I was present it was easy it was couldn't have been easier it's just the time a day we do I just need you know accommodations

0:03:27 Eli: So for everyone at home who assume that we're waking Thomas up at, I don't know, 6 a .m., it is currently 10, 10,

0:03:27 Tom: 10,

0:03:27 Thomas: I'm gonna sue you guys is under the ADA.

0:03:38 Tom: 15.

0:03:38 Thomas: No, it's not. Look, these details aren't important. These details are not. You don't, don't. Don't. Don't! And yet, still, when we recorded later, it was way better, is all I'm saying.

0:03:39 Eli: 15 a .am.

0:03:40 Tom: It's double -digit time.

0:03:46 Eli: Farmers go to bed at the time we ask you to wake up this is a siesta for a lot of the world the spanish have had a cigarette and fucked

0:04:04 Thomas: It's always because of sleep there's no other thing that's going on just so you know there's No other fucking thing it's like fuck oh god uh

0:04:12 Eli: I know and the other problem with you being so like pathologically honest is that when another person is late they lie right and they tell you a nice comforting lie about why they were late guys I'm so sorry fucking I got hit by a train on the way here, and you're like, oh my god, a train? Yeah, no, it was one of those big ones that carries the coal. Oh my god. Well, let's get started, dude. But Thomas is just like, sorry, I was a sleepy little bear again. You know the way that everyone wakes up 100 % of the time? That doesn't work on me sometimes. So I wasn't here and now I am and I don't understand or empathize with any impatience to that circumstance whatsoever. Oh, you've been waiting here five minutes. I donno, listen to a podcast, man. I know what to tell ya. In.

0:04:48 Thomas: Yeah oh no that's that's not true now that now you're adding stuff because I'm deeply mad that I'm late but there's nothing I can do about it look my hands are tied there's nothing I'm as upset as you all

0:05:02 Eli: Nothing to be done. Nothing to be dead. What can I do?

0:05:03 Tom: There's nothing you can there's nothing that can be done it cannot be solved yep yep shock watch shock watch what

0:05:07 Eli: It's physically impossible for anyone to wake up. You know what's weird? And then I promised to introduce our shock watch,

0:05:08 Thomas: Are it's nope can't be done can't be done I

0:05:15 Eli: Our sponsor for this week's shock watch. I wake up before my alarm every single day. I think my alarm wakes me up like twice a month.

0:05:23 Tom: What?

0:05:23 Eli: Yeah. Yep.

0:05:24 Tom: What?

0:05:23 Thomas: Have that sometimes but yeah not

0:05:26 Eli: 6 .15, 6 .20. I just sort of come out of an unpleasant dream where everyone's mad at me and I look at my phone and I go, alright, close enough. Yeah? And I awake into a world where everyone's mad at me oh my

0:05:32 Thomas: Really oh everyone's mad at you

0:05:41 Tom: What

0:05:41 Eli: God oh okay let me talk about this so the only let me tell you about this for a second so my the neuro spice I love the neuro spice in a lot of ways but one of the problems with the neuro space is that my son's ideas about what the morning has to consist of at this point are now more a choreographed ballet ballet, that Tchaikovsky and maybe some postmodern artist would come together to create. First of all, it has to be the time. The time is never right. If I wake him early, it was too early. If I wake him late, it's too late. If wake him on time, it is too late, but every time I wake, him whenever time I walk into his room, I have done it at the wrong time, and so the first words I hear out of my favorite favorite person's mouth. First thing in the morning, he's my favorite person in the world.

0:06:22 Thomas: What the

0:06:32 Tom: I say?

0:06:32 Eli: In the world! And the first thing I hear out of his mouth every morning is, no, no! Every morning, every morning, I walk in. Keep in mind, this is what I have done before this happens. I wake up at 6 .15, I put on my clothes, I get dressed, I go downstairs, I clean, I clear. How did things get messy between us going to bed when I cleaned and waking up in the mornin' when I clean? The goblin the mess goblin has come so I fucking clean I clean the house so that you can make it I pour him a bowl of cheerios I set up

0:06:33 Thomas: Fuck oh man god so oh wow

0:07:04 Eli: His ipad just where he likes I start the coffee so that there's coffee ready for everybody when they come down slash upstairs depending on where they live in my house right I turn on all the lights get everything going then I go upstairs I open the door hey buddy yes little candelabra and I make sure he's got the white bowl not the yellow bowl for his Cheerios.

0:07:04 Thomas: Holy shit it's like a candelabra for the date that he's having this is like a 90s movies to date montage

0:07:25 Eli: We're all set. I lay his backpack on the couch so that he could put his stuff. Yeah, exactly. I knock on the door. I open it up. No!

0:07:25 Thomas: Like a string quartet

0:07:32 Eli: No! No! And then I just have to start my day with a hostage negotiation. Just to, just walk away. Allow me to put on, take off your jammies and enter into, please pee.

0:07:32 Thomas: Oh god oh god so I fuck fuck.

0:07:50 Eli: Gentlemen, do you know the only thing worse than trying to convince a five -year -old to live the incredibly easy life you woke woke up at farmer times to arrange for him. Why? It's the auto ads, the Thomas waking up of your podcasting experience. You can make those things go away over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dance, where for as little as a dollar, you'll get a commercial free version of every show, a bonus episode whenever Thomas and Lydia damn well feel like it, but usually once a month. It's out this month. So see, you got one this month?

0:08:02 Thomas: It's already out. It was out on the 2nd, I want to say. That's within the plus

0:08:28 Tom: That's within range. It's within range.

0:08:28 Thomas: Or minus on the calendars. That was

0:08:29 Eli: Yeah, exactly. Is that this month's bonus, or was that last month's?

0:08:34 Thomas: January's bonus, of course. Sorry, did you record a February you wear a bonus that I don't know about yeah

0:08:40 Eli: No, I didn't, but again, I don't know what timeline we're... Podcast Lister, this is how our timeline works. We make a schedule page once a month. We sit down, and Thomas, I know, I Know, but believe me, he is actually the one who should do this. Thomas makes a schedule, lays it out in a nice little spreadsheet, beautiful little spreadsheet.

0:08:58 Tom: It's gorgeous.

0:08:58 Eli: We look at it, we talk it over, we do the thing every single week. We need seven. We need seven or else we need a time machine to kill Hitler.

0:09:07 Thomas: I don'T know what you're talking about

0:09:07 Eli: One of those things needs to happen this week.

0:09:08 Thomas: So this asshole over here is like hey you know I record once a week we record once a week I can't do an eli voice hey you don't have an impression you know record once a week

0:09:17 Eli: Because of how mask...

0:09:17 Tom: What was that? That was not even close.

0:09:19 Thomas: I can't make it let's see then eli be like hey I have a thing I can record let's Let's see, next week, the week after, the week after that, or the week after that. I need one episode the week after that and then after that I'm quitting the show and then I can't record. So, Thomas, can you figure out a way to schedule out how we're going to get the month's worth of episodes on one single

0:09:19 Eli: Anti -Semitic. Thank

0:09:34 Tom: I don't see any problem with this arrangement, by the way.

0:09:40 Thomas: Day in May for February through May? And I'll be like, sure, I'll work it out. Why does it matter if the advance notice is high? I'm leaving the planet.

0:09:45 Eli: You. I give such advanced notice, podcast listener. This is so unfair. What do you mean, what does it matter?

0:09:51 Tom: Because we can pre -record.

0:09:51 Eli: That gives you all the other time in human life.

0:09:54 Thomas: You do give at least a couple weeks sometimes but then like tom has one minute of the day that he can record it's not like we could work around it's like a miracle that recording

0:10:05 Eli: Of course we can work around Tom.

0:10:06 Thomas: Today we all have our flaws we

0:10:06 Eli: We just do a show without him. It's what we do. It's three out of four shows. We just do one, you and me. What do you mean?

0:10:12 Tom: Three out of four. That's a lot.

0:10:14 Eli: Oh, what are we going to do if we can't work around Tom's schedule? I don't know. Pretend he's just not there that day.

0:10:22 Eli: Oh, let's pack away Tom episodes for the winter. What are we gonna do?

0:10:27 Tom: To be fair, if I see an episode, there's six more weeks of no more episodes. So it's how it works. Works I try not to open my eyes that

0:10:32 Eli: That's true. That's truth. And your wife doesn't get the immortality potion that you get.

0:10:37 Thomas: All uh that's funny daryl

0:10:38 Tom: I've been working on yeah that's what yeah patreon you

0:10:44 Eli: And then I rip into it.

0:10:44 Tom: Should be there I still get paid I mean I don't deserve it but I still getting

0:10:49 Eli: But it happens.

0:10:58 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:11:00 Tom: Paid so this question comes from mike says hey fellow dads I have a situation I never thought I'd have to email you about but I think it's worth a discussion my son is a senior in high school and just before christmas he broke up with his girlfriend of three years he handled everything around the situation with a maturity I hadn't expected. He realized the relationship with her was not making him happy. He communicated what he needed and she responded by initiating the breakup.

0:11:23 Tom: He didn't mourn the relationship per se and he made a conscious decision to work on himself. He has friends outside of school, both boys and girls, and one friend in particular who's a girl, but he doesn't want anything more than friendship with her right now. Today he showed me his phone and there was a message from his best friend. Bro, I feel bad about this, but I've been talking to girlfriend, like talking, talking. Honking. And my son was pretty rattled by this. Now, I don't believe in bros before hoes and find that idea repugnant, but I'd never try to get with a friend's ex so shortly after a breakup, if at all, because I value my friendships first and foremost. This made me curious how you'd counsel your child in a situation like this. For what it's worth, I told him it's dumb of those two to try to talk and it's possible she's acting like this to get back at my son. So if he has to to say anything to either of them to just say I'm happy for you but I don't need the details right now or simply cool I'm unhappy for you to walk away from it I also said his ex could be using the friend as a rebound and it's unlikely to last thanks mike so

0:12:23 Tom: Very I

0:12:25 Thomas: Very curious to here's the thing. I don't know how I feel about this one. Like genuinely don't know because now the answer is I don' care because I'm non -monogat. But how would I have felt in like high school or whatever? Like I don''t think I'd be happy about it.

0:12:39 Eli: Oh, I cared so much.

0:12:41 Tom: Feel like it makes less of a difference if you're monogamous or polyamorous or whatever then like that's your ex like why is your your friend thinking of your ex?

0:12:50 Thomas: Nah, it's about the non -Monogat

0:12:52 Eli: That's insane. Okay, good. Thank you, Tom, for providing that.

0:12:54 Tom: Why is your friend thinking of you ex? No, most of the time, it doesn't matter if it's your girlfriend or your girlfriend's girlfriend's girlfriend. It doesn't matter. If you break up with somebody, it is, or somebody breaks up with you. I think most people would understand that there is very often still feelings around that. It doesn't matter if it's monogamous or polyamorous.

0:13:15 Thomas: I just want to know that for me I heard this says doesn't matter if you're monogamous, non - monogamist this why are you looking at my wife that

0:13:22 Tom: Well, that's not what I'm saying, though.

0:13:23 Thomas: Way fucking piece of shit

0:13:24 Tom: That's not at all what I am saying. I'm I'm saying like like very often there are still like feelings around that, like people are mad or they're sad or they've got it's never or rarely entirely neutral, especially after three years. This is a three year long relationship. This isn't like they dated for two weeks and it's like, oh, whatever. This is like three year along relationship and probably the first relationship somebody has had because like they're just a senior in high school.

0:13:51 Thomas: Eli you could correct me if I'm I'm wrong but as a non -monago these days now again a high school different story or whatever like younger different story breakups are mostly like schedule related like it's it's more like you're just like ah we just can't fucking line up the goddamn schedules schedules.

0:14:04 Eli: God no I'm fuck that would be amazing no please high school is the best representation of poly breakups and makeups every poly couple I know are like well you know jesanthopus is no longer paramours with costar and brankhammer after the microaggressions during the board game night I'll fucking kill my I miss the fights out front of the high school more than anything in the world oh my god and then everyone gets on their friends and family instagram stories to call the other one a gaslighting abuser I would pay

0:14:38 Thomas: Okay. I don't, I don'T have any of this world. I DON'T know what this is. Oh no. Oh my God. You're with the worst people. I Don'T know WHAT'S going on. Fuck that. Oh yeah. I'm I'm no longer Paramore's with Coaster. Yeah. Oh, God.

0:14:48 Eli: Anything it's oh it's 100 my friends let me be very clear I'm sure there are normal people out there who have just rejected sexual jealousy but these fucking circus performers and I do mean that literally in my life are just they are poly so they can have every bad relationship combination simultaneously they are

0:15:10 Thomas: Eli, I don't give you enough credit for not going all right. You know, because, like, I'm over here and, like. I don' t know. Like, you know, sometimes it's like I see a woke person say something dumb on the Internet. I'm like, yeah, it's just a woke version saying something dumb. On the Internet, you're barely living in, like the anti woke dream of the. Yeah, it' s like, what? What are these people

0:15:26 Eli: I live in their midst yes mm -hmm I I this is gonna this is I this is there's no way they can hear this

0:15:32 Thomas: Oh good times he's looking behind his shoulder like over his shoulder right

0:15:39 Tom: Excuse

0:15:42 Eli: Okay so I have a friend whose partner at the time wanted a break because they had a food event not a dinner party this is important had a food event at the same time as their partner's hunger strike so to be clear so to

0:16:03 Thomas: Now oh my god

0:16:04 Tom: Me wait a minute excuse me

0:16:06 Eli: Be clear here's what was happening okay there's a person at the center of the sparkle we're gonna call them slutty yeah so slutty's in the center they're They're getting fucked by everybody on the right hand side. They're going to be fucked by party a party. A's partner who I cannot emphasize enough is not fucking slutty is not fucking the center of the circle. They're just fucking party a we're going call them partner. A two, a two is having a hunger strike. Okay. The person at the center, the circle slutty wait, no, it's so important because it's, there's more than partner B. who is fucking slutty at the center of the circle partner B, their partner has a food event now I thought it was a dinner party and there was a lot of back and forth about whether or not it was a dinner part, it wasn't, it was getting together and dinner happened but then the

0:16:39 Tom: No not okay no I wait wait you said okay and I said no No, no,

0:16:44 Thomas: Oh my God this is so good this is the best sorry what Eli

0:17:05 Eli: Sinner of the circle went to the dinner instead of, I don't know standing in solidarity

0:17:11 Tom: Nobody has genitals. No, No,

0:17:12 Thomas: You're making Tom be right about things don't make Tom be write about things what are we talking about

0:17:15 Tom: No, nobody in the world has genital. Exciting enough to put up with this. Nobody, nobody, nobody.

0:17:20 Thomas: I agree with that I actually agree with it

0:17:21 Eli: This is true and yet it is a constant factor within my life.

0:17:26 Thomas: I don't know who you have found I this is okay all

0:17:31 Tom: That's a hard. No to all. Everything you said, I'm saying no to every single thing you said.

0:17:36 Eli: I say, I'm just taking in, or I'm just listening so often because there's no words I can say. Someone will be like, can you believe that? And I'll be like I hear you. I hear the words you're saying. I heard every single one of them. It really registers with me what you're saying right now.

0:17:54 Thomas: Right that's amazing oh man the cruel joke is that makes you like their best friend they're like oh my god he lies the best he just sits there and he

0:17:59 Eli: Oh my God. Eli really supported me through the hunger strike fiasco through hunger gate. Okay. So, So so here's the problem. Right. Because what you need to understand, because we're over here in non Monagoville. Right.

0:18:02 Thomas: Just oh that's so good

0:18:12 Tom: Not all of us.

0:18:13 Eli: But you can't you can'T teach the children about non Monagoville when they're not there yet, because then you're like shaming their natural development. I feel like because it's very normal. And this is what I've tried to do in the past. And it's gone, not awesome, is a young person in my life has been like, Tiffany broke up with me. And I've been like sexual ownership is slavery. And they've been that's the least helpful thing you could say except for leaning in for a kiss. So I'm a little team Tom in that you have to indulge the mindset of that sexual ownership and help them navigate it. Possession, slavery, whatever you want to use. The cock cage of the heart genital lockdown control ownership oh

0:18:13 Thomas: Yeah we yeah no yeah

0:18:54 Tom: It's nothing to do with sexual or something. Like, like, good Lord. Yeah. Genital lockdown. I feel like, I feel

0:18:58 Thomas: Yeah, chattel, yeah, the cock, the cockroach of the heart, yeah

0:19:14 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:19:17 Tom: Like somebody that would do this, honestly, is not your friend. Like, just straight up. Like, that's not your friend.

0:19:20 Eli: 100 % not your friend cause they're also in

0:19:24 Tom: No, but like, but, like what this person is tacitly saying, right, is like, hey, I would rather make myself self -happy at your expense that is what your friend is saying by pursuing somebody that like there's no reason it's not like there's other they're in high school right it's like there'S not other people to pursue it's NOT like most of these relationships work out this person is not like oh my god finally you're available I've been waiting to talk to you like none of that it's clearly just a moment of opportunism that your friend IS swooping in on and they don't care if If that makes you feel like shit, as long as it makes them feel good. And I feel like just straight up, if somebody is willing to make themselves happy at your expense, that person is never your friend. And it doesn't matter whether it's a girlfriend or a job or whatever the scenario is. If somebody has got an attitude called, I would like to make myself happy at your expense, that person sucks.

0:19:58 Thomas: Hey I started dating your job, what, what the fuck are you talking about, and

0:20:17 Eli: Monogoville

0:20:18 Tom: I mean, like outside of dating, if somebody does anything to make make themselves happy at your expense, that person isn't your friend. This is just one example of that.

0:20:27 Thomas: That's why I'm gonna come up with the third bear take maybe is yes, good. And also that guy should just do it. And he's not your friend.

0:20:36 Eli: Yeah there's the real third bear hey I understand that this is a

0:20:36 Tom: Yeah, I, right.

0:20:36 Thomas: You should just no longer be friends.

0:20:40 Eli: Betrayal but um yummy no but here's the thing cause I don't want this to be construed as just a monogamy thing cause no matter how monogamous you are and I'll point this out as a rule right when someone brings a partner to an orgy it is good manners to be like hey who is your partner playing with tonight because a lot of times they just want to fuck in a room full of people who are fucking if you're like well you entered the doorway to the orgy therefore your holes are up for grabs you have a weird fucking vibe right so it doesn't matter how weird or kinky or poly you you are you gotta have some kind of conversation with let alone a former a former partner the fucking hunger strike you think I don't check in with the hunger strike squad about whether or not I can date so these people get mad at each other over who they picked in the oscar pool we all share through facebook messenger blink

0:21:16 Thomas: I'm always saying it. Oh my God. Okay. But you're in a hell.

0:21:39 Tom: Look, yeah. Right.

0:21:40 Thomas: You're in nightmare hell though. That's a different, I think you You should blink if you're unsafe, is what I think.

0:21:47 Eli: Blink blink any blink blink like blink blink

0:21:47 Tom: Blink. He's blinking so hard. I think it's going to damage his eyes. He is blinking. Well, I think, I mean, you can actually take sex and relationship, like take the romantic relationship out.

0:21:56 Eli: No talking going to women.

0:21:56 Tom: And I think the question still ports. I think The Question still ports it. Let's say you had a best friend, right? Have you ever had had a breakup with a best friend like you've ever had like a really close friend and then like you're no longer friends with that person I don't know if that's ever happened you guys

0:22:08 Thomas: Not until Eli can't stand that I'm late for the last time.

0:22:11 Eli: That's right. I do send you how many mornings you have left.

0:22:13 Tom: I have had situations in my life where somebody has been like a very very close friend and then there's been some kind of a falling out right and then we are no longer close friends it would be fucking weird to the point of insane if somebody else in my friend group was like hey Hey, do you mind if I start apropos of nothing where I did not previously have a relationship with that person becoming friends with that? I'd be like, why would you do that? Just why? Literally, why? Why would you? Why would I do that to you? You clearly know that there's probably some bad blood or awkwardness or difficulty there. Just pick somebody else. Just literally pick somebody else.

0:22:57 Eli: Yeah. It's weird.

0:22:57 Tom: Like you don't have to have a romantic or sexual element to it at all. Like, even if I had like a close friend, you'd be like, yeah, man, don't invite my former best friend to your fucking party. Why would you make it weird for me if you cared about me? Is it bros before hoes? I know girls have girl code and I think it's the same girl code. Girls talk about the same thing. Like, I just feel like it's like good manners to do that. Right.

0:23:19 Eli: A hundred percent. Yeah, not only to consider someone else's feelings, but also to just understand like that someone else is in pain right now. It is a very selfish thing. Now, I do want to congratulate this listener because I think they gave really great advice, which is just to say, cool, right? Acknowledge the information and then extricate themselves from the situation. Because a lot of the time what someone wants to do in that situation when And they're like, hey, me and Brittany are talking is they want to like have a big conversation about it where they tell you how deep their feelings for Brittany, who you dated for three years are, even though they've only known her for 11 and a half minutes. Right. And so then you end up in this weird like, well, you're the bad guy because you're not validating my feelings space. And so I think the advice this listener gave their kid about just like, Hey, that's fine. I don't need the details. I think it's spot on.

0:24:10 Tom: Yeah, I do, too. I think the part I would add, like if one of my kids came to me with this situation, I think I would very much be like. Hey, that person's not your friend. You probably shouldn't hang out with that person anymore.

0:24:20 Eli: Oh, 100%.

0:24:21 Tom: That guy you think is your buddy and he's like, oh, I feel so bad that this I'm doing this thing that I'm doing anyway. I also fucking hate that shit. Right. Like when somebody's like oh, I feel So bad that I am doing the thing I'm choosing to do. No, you don't like

0:24:33 Eli: Whoa. Thomas is right here, man. Come on. He said he was sorry about being late, Tom. Keep it chill. Keep it.

0:24:38 Tom: It's such bullshit when people say that like oh I feel bad about the thing. I'm doing. No.

0:24:47 Thomas: Well, I don't know about that.

0:24:47 Tom: You don't you don' feel bad about it at all. Like if you felt that bad about it, you wouldn't fucking do it

0:24:52 Thomas: Well, they don't feel that bad about it. They might feel bad about the fact that I don'm late. They might not feel bad at it. It's just not that amount of bad at.

0:24:53 Eli: Yeah, they feel bad.

0:24:56 Tom: They don't give a shit yeah I don't know I feel like you don't give a

0:24:58 Eli: They've tried setting their alarm clock.

0:24:58 Thomas: It you this is you applying your binary lens someone either is all into something or not

0:25:04 Eli: Oh, I need to get you with some of these people from the circus. They'll help you with that.

0:25:08 Thomas: No just in general it's like I could see a scenario where what if this guy's like hey look I've had a thing for this person for a long time before whatever you know before you're together or whatever even right when we met or something and gonna explore that because maybe it's something I don't know I don' t know I could obviously you're still upset about your friend but you're you're going to give it a try. I don't know. I don't think people are either all one thing or all the other. I think that means they're secretly not upset at all.

0:25:36 Tom: I kind of do I know that's my binary self -talking but like I kind of feel like it's sort of especially in a scenario like this like you've like maybe you're harboring feelings for this person for what like three unrequited years or some portion of that like this person's been off the table for most of all of high school and And this is supposed to be your friend. And I don't know, like for me, it feels like, again, like it kind of comes back to like, well, like, is this person actually my friend? What does that mean to me?

0:26:05 Eli: Yeah.

0:26:05 Tom: Like if being friends means I don'T hurt this person. Yeah.

0:26:07 Thomas: I agree with that. I actually totally agree with the advice of like, yeah, maybe that means they might be a fake friend.

0:26:13 Tom: That's not your buddy. Yeah. Yeah.

0:26:13 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah I think for me, I think I pretty much agree with. That I think, I would say like, hey, maybe be careful like it's up to you know, maybe don't put a whole lot of investment into this person. I wouldn't maybe put in so stark of terms of like just ditch them or whatever, but like I I'd definitely be like, be wary.

0:26:29 Tom: I would just add that, like I don' t feel like anybody is your friend that doesn' t have you. There' s no way to have somebody as a friend that you can trust if that person's mindset mindset is, as long as I get what I want, I'm not real concerned about how much that hurts you. Yep.

0:26:45 Eli: Yeah。 I also think it's really important just to acknowledge like, hey, just so you know, because there's a lot of the time the person will frame that in like, Like, are we cool? Right. And people don't like conflict. So you're like, yeah, sure. Cool. Right. And then later they're like but you said we were cool. You said it was OK.

0:27:01 Eli: Right? So I to to sort of step over to the Tom side a little bit. I do think it's important to acknowledge to your kid to say like, hey, this person did a not nice thing to you. Right, they know you're a dirty monologue. You know you know you have yet to free yourself from sexual slavery because you won't read the copy of Ethical Slut Daddy gave you. Even though it was a birthday gift on your sixth birthday which is the perfect time to start reading the ethical slut and so like that person did a not nice thing to you and you need to take a step back from that person and figure out how you feel and have those conversations in safe ways the way you would when a friend does anything not nice right if they came up to you said haha your shoes are fat you step back and you find a way to interact safely which is that you call daddy you put

0:27:13 Thomas: Mm -mm. Ha, ha, ha.

0:27:24 Tom: Very appropriate. Right?

0:27:20 Thomas: Ha, ho, ho. Ha, he, he. Ha, she, hee, hei, hea, heee, heeh, heh, heih, heah, hehe, hehh, hehehe, hehhh, heeee, heeeee, hehhhh,

0:27:49 Eli: Daddy on speakerphone and you use the secret code for roast word you say the name of the person I have your yearbook and I have pre -written roasts for all your classmates for just such an event I put down my copy of the ethical slut heavily annotated copy of ethical slut the pink tabs are the parenting tips

0:28:08 Thomas: Hehee, heuh, heu, heue, hehu, heuu, heuuuu, he uh, man. I think we need to record on Wednesdays more often or something. I don't know what's going on.

0:28:14 Tom: Fired up.

0:28:14 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:28:20 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:28:22 Tom: I also like this isn't really addressed in the question, but I think it's a kind of an an interesting aside like I also think that if you're part of a friend group and like somebody breaks up with somebody I don't want anyone to think that I'm suggesting that you can't still be friends with that other person that you were previously friends with right so like we were all part of the same friend groupand you know mike and sarah break up now obviously you don't have to stop being friends with sarah you just don't start a new type of relationship with sarAH like Like, that's the only thing that I'm suggesting is like nothing that new would it be appropriate to begin. I don't think you have an obligation to like pick a side or abandon somebody that you previously were friends with. But like if I'm buddies with Mike, then I'm bodies with Mike and I'm not going to be like, well, now I'm going to get with Sarah. Like that's a like in my mind, that'S a fucked up thing to do. It's just like, yeah, I guess I don'T really care about Mike that much.

0:29:13 Thomas: Should we read anything into him picking the name of his best friend's wife or just should we? Yeah. Do we just. And I said in that hypothetical, hey, Cecil, I mean, hey

0:29:19 Eli: Do you want me to help you talk cecil through it because I've because I'm done this with the circus people before and it's actually um I can talk you through it it's pretty useful hey just so you know it's gonna go terrible please don't use one of the swords you collect and use at your many sword events to stab me for asking

0:29:34 Thomas: Mike.

0:29:34 Tom: I got stabbed so many times I just know like If we don't make that qualification There'll be listeners who are like You say you have to abandon anybody And I'm not saying that at all I'm just saying don't start something new That's fucking weird and

0:29:50 Thomas: Yeah. And at the risk of being roasted pretty hard by Eli in a moment, I once again would always like to reiterate how few friends I care to have. It's not very many. So yeah, it's well, either that it'll either be that or it'll be like

0:30:03 Eli: This nice I got rid of one hey

0:30:09 Tom: Rude

0:30:09 Thomas: If I'm friends with somebody, it means I like them enough to where it's like I've actually put effort into being friends with them, which is a lot. And so if I I'm probably not gonna let something like this get in the way unless it's really bad you know if I did feel like it was like a huge betrayal like oh wow this is I think it would depend on maybe what they said or how they said it you know that might be a factor but like yeah I don't know I think for me it'd be like I wouldn't really let this kill an otherwise good friendship yeah

0:30:35 Tom: That's a good point like it doesn't always have to be a non -starter right like so in other words like if the relationship just like fizzled out and everybody's cool and there's no problem and you're like hey you know would you mind if I started talking to so -and -so and you're like yeah I genuinely don't mind and it feels genuine and it's not a sort of like like eli was suggesting it's a sort -of like manipulative trap then yeah that's fine who gives a shit you asked and

0:30:59 Thomas: Maybe that's the way to go

0:30:59 Tom: It was like hey would this hurt you if I did this and if the other Cool. Then everybody's cool.

0:31:06 Eli: Join me over here kinky people um because tom's tricking you right now nobody's cool okay I live I know so many circus performers with pronouns you could never dream of in languages you can't speak nobody's cool the kinkiest fucking weirdest most loosey -goosey ethical slut is heteronormative so I won't read that shit hippies they're all gonna be fucking weird if you start fucking somebody they were fucking every single one of

0:31:33 Thomas: Yeah all right not me all right look I'm just weird I guess I don't know not me I don'T CARE uh you can you can go ahead and go nuts yeah

0:31:38 Eli: Them oh look I don't care I'm just letting them know they exist in the the world and they're gonna run into 99 of the people

0:31:44 Tom: Yeah. Weird.

0:31:45 Thomas: Yeah the lesson of this episode is eli's friends are fucking weird and you should stop you should get out of

0:31:50 Tom: So weird.

0:31:52 Eli: Yeah thomas could walk in on you fucking one of his partners and he'd be like she's supposed to be editing you notice how I softened that joke by making it one of His partners instead of lydia the the name lydia made it no

0:31:57 Thomas: That oh boy oh man that was no that was you didn't need you didn'T need notes on your joke it was perfect it was you don't you don'T fucking you donT take the the Mona Lisa and then fucking the you know who yeah I guess he just made it oh okay his annotations for them and the

0:32:17 Eli: Fun explain it you got it this is for the com I'm sure there are comedy history majors hundreds Hundreds of years in the future. Going, yes, exactly. Going through the archives, trying to figure out.

0:32:30 Thomas: Professor's like and did you know jesanthropus is a very bad reference to louis ck that he should stop making it's

0:32:36 Eli: So here's the problem. It's the best fake name. And it's solidified in my brain.

0:32:41 Thomas: So distinct though it's such a great movie so distinct yeah

0:32:41 Tom: It's so good. It is so good co

0:32:45 Eli: Yeah, Gizanthippus. It's perfect. It goes, and it's nobody's name. I can always safely retreat to the fake name of Gizantippus,

0:32:51 Thomas: You did co -star as well I don't know if that was real or fake and it was the greatest bowl oh god no that only works at the very specific

0:33:02 Tom: -star.

0:33:02 Eli: Maybe CoStar will be my new replacement. You gotta find a new replacement poly circus community

0:33:10 Thomas: Super woke yeah yeah like

0:33:11 Tom: Right. Yeah. Haley's going to be listening to this. Like, how dare you besmirch the circus with your poly shit? She also was the

0:33:14 Thomas: Oh bad

0:33:16 Eli: Yeah she's not circus she's pole those are normal people normal sane people

0:33:22 Tom: Same thing with those silks and the and the lira that she did too yeah that is true

0:33:24 Eli: Yeah the silk people are normal and sane I think I want to do some fun swinging around you don't know this the circus people put nails in their nose okay if you're not putting a nail in you it's a hundred yes it's 100 different we go over to the the aerialists and we hit on them because we lack self -awareness that's why we're circus people but they're too busy being married to their husbands who they love can I tell you guys one of my favorite stories

0:33:33 Tom: Okay I'm sorry you're talking about a different side of the tent I

0:33:54 Eli: About an aerialist so my buddy jizzle squizzle who I won't name uh but he's the best he is a magician and he very much inhabits the sort of like sexy world of like burlesque here in New York. And when he was first starting out his career, he's doing this gig where he's walking around doing magic tricks and he's set up at this bar. They're like, Hey, we want you to be at the bar and you do tricks for people at the bar. He's doing tricks at the Bar. And above the bar, there's an aerialist like swinging around on the silks and doing all the silk stuff. So he's that all night. And then there's a little bit of a lull and she flips on down and she was like, Oh my gosh, I've been watching you amaze people all night long. How do you do that trick with the card right because he does the same trick over and over again and he's like oh magician doesn't reveal secrets she gives him a smile and she's hanging from the ceiling and she's like please and he's like okay and he's young enough in magic that not to know you never tell the secret and so he tells her he'Slike well what I do is I take it here and it goes into the secret pocket and she goes oh lame and then flip flip flip whip flips back up the silk, which I

0:34:59 Thomas: Yes oh my god it's like a spider

0:35:03 Eli: Think is the roughest way. Yes. The roughest way to be rejected after you expose a magic trick is for someone to say lame and then roll themselves back up against gravity into the sky above you where they belong.

0:35:15 Tom: Gotcha that's fucking amazing I kind of hope every rejection goes that way actually were you just the person that rejected you

0:35:22 Eli: If they could just flip, flip, whip, flip.

0:35:23 Thomas: Jesus that's what happens in my mind yeah

0:35:23 Tom: Just disappears into the ether that's fucking amazing oh my god I love

0:35:27 Eli: Okay. One more jizzle story that I adore. So we are at a magic convention. This is again, when he was single back in the day.

0:35:33 Thomas: Sorry I have to note I didn't realize the never tell the secret of the magic trick isn't some magic code for that it's just that the girl on silks will be like that's fucking lame that's why they haven't been revealing their

0:35:42 Tom: That that's fuckin stupid yeah no

0:35:43 Eli: Yup. It's a, so here's the crazy thing and I promise this is true every single male magician has had a moment where a girl has said please and we've shown them how the magic trick works and they've gone ah that fucking sucks because magic

0:35:47 Tom: Oh you're wearing a trick jacket with a sleeve for the

0:36:04 Eli: Tricks suck all men think about the magic tricks you know even if you don't know a lot of magic tricks think about that like one or two you know because of your uncle when the secrets The secrets suck to magic. It's the curse of magic. And so we tell ourselves, we're like, don't reveal it or a guy will be mad at you as opposed to don't reveal it because it's layman for children. Can you imagine trying to enforce the it's layman -for -children code? So my favorite jizzle story, and then we'll let him go. So a couple years ago, we were at a magic convention, and he likes to flirt when we go out, so we are at the front desk and he is flirting very heavily with

0:36:04 Thomas: Secrets yeah oh man I didn't know heath did magic

0:36:44 Eli: The person at the front desk I know of this hotel where we're staying at where the magic convention is and so make an eyebrow at her and so

0:36:46 Tom: Pocket he's making eyebrow at

0:36:51 Thomas: Fucker's never shown me a trick god damn

0:36:55 Eli: We go away and he's like oh man I lost my card case so he has like a little metal card clip that keeps the cards in good condition because that's the thing you own when you're a magician and uh sure enough he gets a text message and it's like hey you left your card clip at the front desk now he had given that girl his number and he's like oh my gosh it's her he's and they're like oh no problem just come on down to the front desk and get it when you get a chance he's like oh I'm in the middle of this thing right now um can I see you later and then she's like you know what I'll actually just leave it in my room why don't you come get it from my room later and he's like whoa now here's what didn't occur to us that should have people who work in hotels are not staying in that hotel but pin in that because we didn't think about that at the time we were just excited for him this is working out so well and so he's Like absolutely like can't wait so he's texting her she's texting back I'll see you in a few minutes yeah absolutely give me one second I just got to get up there he goes up there and he's like I should bring something right and I'm like you should absolutely bring something don't make it weird so he goes to the bar he gets a bottle of champagne right he opens up he goes through what's your room number 437 goes up to 437 opens the door it is not her it is another magician who was hanging out with us at that front desk. And so not only has he brought him a bottle of champagne, but I cannot emphasize how

0:38:22 Thomas: It oh no oh

0:38:23 Tom: Her oh not good oh

0:38:30 Eli: Flirty his texts have been to our fellow magician. He'd just been like, no, I've got to find some way to thank you. And it's like, nope, it's fine. It's just up in my room. If you could just come get it.

0:38:41 Tom: My God well he fucked him anyway

0:38:43 Eli: Yeah, of course. Obviously. Yeah. He's a magician.

0:38:43 Tom: Right okay all right yeah good good yeah okay I

0:38:55 Eli: All right, gentlemen. On topic today, I got an on topic dad joke for you what do you call a kinky pasta fettuccine how

0:38:49 Clip: DEAR OLD DADS

0:39:07 Tom: Like that one that was good

0:39:09 Thomas: Man. Eli, did you see the David Copperfield in the Epstein Files thing?

0:39:13 Eli: Many times is he in the abs he's in the epstein file so many times

0:39:18 Thomas: Okay. I couldn't remember. I feel like you told me something weird about that guy, but I can't remember.

0:39:22 Eli: Oh he's a voracious abuser of children the guardian so it's the worst article you've ever read the guardian put out two articles two years ago now and here's the crazy thing so when you read the garden article you're gonna be like he likes being being a fucking weirdo. Like, I guess some of these people didn't like have a great time on stage with him. So here's what the article is like. The article is literally like David Copperfield. One time he brought a lady on stage and he, he said, are you married? And she wouldn't feel super comfortable about that. And you're like, oh, okay. I don't know why there's a guardian article. I kid you not two paragraphs from the end. It says also seven women say he drugged and raped them, but many of them have redacted their statement after being in conversation with David's and you're like oh oh oh it was

0:40:03 Tom: What jesus christ why are we why are we not leading with that like what what

0:40:09 Eli: The guardian article and everything and people talk about it all the time in magic here's what's crazy even when you point that out to some people in magic they'll be like it's a he said she said situation and I'm like it said he said fucking jury of his peers seven people seven separate people

0:40:26 Tom: It's actually a he said she said she said she says she said that's a little different

0:40:30 Eli: She said she says she says yeah exactly and those are just Just the ones willing to speak up, yeah.

0:40:32 Thomas: Well, and you assume there's like a hundred that you haven't heard of yeah

0:40:36 Tom: Right yeah there's probably a a lot of didn't say yeah jesus christ when are we gonna make that guy disappear like

0:40:43 Eli: God. Time is doing its best.

0:40:43 Thomas: Oh tom I appreciate

0:40:43 Tom: Is that guy still a thing or what I think we should be able to saw those guys in half you know like it'd be great

0:40:54 Thomas: It those are working on me tom I don't know why those are those are really working on me those are good I like that

0:40:56 Tom: You know patreon

0:40:58 Eli: Sorry, I was a sleepy little bear again.

0:41:49 Thomas: We all have our flaws we all ever floss that's what I'm saying daryl elight

0:41:56 Eli: Bear, rip into it.

0:41:56 Tom: You should be there I still get

0:42:00 Thomas: I don't give you enough credit for not going all right

0:42:04 Tom: Paid

0:42:10 Eli: Your holes are up for grabs!

0:42:11 Tom: Nobody in the world has genitals exciting enough to put up with this I'm sorry you're talking about a different side of the tent that.

0:42:17 Eli: So slutty's in the center, they're getting fucked by everybody.