DOD252: Choosing Between Career and Family

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's that's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired is the only part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:29 Tom: Dear old dads the podcast that's always only had two hosts I'm Tom Curry I'm joined as always with no exceptions by Eli Bosnick hello Eli

0:00:39 Eli: Hello, Tom Curry, who's also here 100% of the time.

0:00:43 Tom: Love that as the least reliable member of the cast I'm throwing shade I love it like of all the three of us I'm like I can't make it again and I'm throwin fuckin shade right now so fuckin take that even

0:00:53 Eli: Look, you gotta take your wins where you can get them, you know?

0:00:58 Tom: If but they're illusory. Even illusORY wins.

0:01:01 Eli: Those are the most important wins, if you learn anything from us here.

0:01:04 Tom: They're the only wins I'm getting these days, so I got to fucking make them up as I go. Jesus Christ.

0:01:11 Eli: We'll fucking sit around waiting for real wins.

0:01:13 Tom: Will say, audience, I know that you're all very upset that Thomas Smith isn't here. We're upset that Tom Smith isn't here. We suspect he'll be here again, but we don't know. You know, he could he Could disappear.

0:01:22 Eli: Never know. You never know. He's a busy man. He's got shit going on.

0:01:25 Tom: Is a busy man. He's got priorities. We don't know what they are, but they're not the show.

0:01:31 Eli: Exactly. They're not us. Before we dive in, Tom, would you like to place knowing Thomas as well as we do as his best friends in the entire world? What would you Like to Wager is happening that Thomas is not here on our radio program right now?

0:01:46 Tom: All right. Well, let's see. It recording this at 1215. Our regular recording time is 12 o'clock. This is a show that is on our schedule that we keep. So my guess is over under he's sleeping.

0:01:59 Eli: Sleeping.

0:01:59 Tom: He's 100 percent sleeping.

0:02:00 Eli: Yeah. So number one bet is sleeping, but sleeping with, let me, let me fucking put a little mentalist twist on this. I'm going to say sleeping with kids sick excuse. So those of you Who follow T -Dog on the book of face. So I'm not on Facebook anymore, but my wife helps me with Facebook the way I imagine some like paraplegics get helped in and out of the bath. So she'll just occasionally wander over and be like, Hey, Thomas and Lydia's kids are are sick again, you should shoot them a nice message or you should do something. Oh, we wait, ladies and gentlemen, we have breaking news.

0:02:11 Tom: I like that. Yeah. Oh, that's a multiplier.

0:02:34 Eli: We have breaking news.

0:02:33 Tom: Oh, what's happening? What is going on right now?

0:02:35 Eli: We just got, oh fuck, god damn it, in the slack. We be joined by Thomas Smith? I think we are. I think we will. Or he's coming. He's coming, alright. Yeah, so okay, great. Well, I'm going to finish making my prediction before he gets on the air. So my wife told me that his kids are sick and this is like the second weekend or like they got sick and then they got stick again. So I'm guessing that like Remy was up all night, like having sex with a fire demon and then Thomas overslept because of that. So that's that's My Prediction. When T-Dog gets on the air, we'll see how it goes.

0:02:44 Tom: Voice. I can't wait to hear the groggy in his voice. I'm here. I'm her. Oh, my God.

0:03:13 Tom: Well, we don't know until he eventually shows up. Up 12 17 though definitely the right the right time I was panicking I I'm was running five minutes late because my boss would not shut up and I can't tell him like hey man I got a hard stop so I can podcast in the middle of the day this is really pretty rude of you actually if you think about it mike this is actually on you we

0:03:16 Eli: We won't know until he appears. I gotta go do the other job. Is on you, buddy. Come on. I mean, how come many houses can we possibly sell in these next five minutes or whatever it it is we do I'm not quite sure sell a house buy a house

0:03:42 Tom: It's not no one knows it's did Did you watch Friends? I feel like my job is like Chandler, where nobody actually knows what

0:03:49 Eli: Yes nobody knows what he does for work did I tell you that I'm sure I've told you the story of me completely getting wrong what you do for work so

0:03:51 Tom: It is. Yeah. But you get it wrong every time you mention it, so I assume. Yeah.

0:03:59 Eli: Get it we mention it so we'RE at dinner with some of hannah's friends and he's like I do um estate insurance and I was like oh my god my buddy does real estate assurance and he was like really and I Was like yeah he does does real real estate insurance and anna has to go hey um he doesn't that's not what tom does and I was like yes it is she was like I embarrassment I have from this moment already is so extreme please stop prolonging it and then the rest of the meal I could see you know when you say something maybe you don't do this I do this all the time when you say something so fucked up that you watch it ruin someone else's week right they're just going well why did he think his friend did real estate insurance did he lie in the hopes of connecting with me is was it a purposeful lie was it an accidental lie yeah

0:04:45 Tom: I remember when and I first started dating, we're talking, and after a couple of months or something, and she's like hey what do you do for work like you never mentioned your work and I was just like it's just too boring I don't want to tell you it's too fucking boring I remember being like it's boring I'm gonna start telling you and then I'm going to get bored and then you're going to get bored it's not really even worth talking about so I'm no thankyou that's what I do for it just nothankyou

0:05:07 Eli: Not what I want to do not my passion

0:05:11 Tom: I remember when I decided I wasn't going to teach and my dad was very upset because I had gone to school to be a teacher so So I have a degree in English lit. I have a secondary education minor. And, like, I went through the whole process, the student teaching, the whole nine yards, and I told my dad, I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to teach. And he's like, what are you going to do with an English degree? And I was like, I don't know, but I'm not going to sit at a desk and push papers all day, Dad.

0:05:34 Tom: And I got a job pretty much immediately sitting at a deck and pushing the maximum amount of paper. In an industry, actually, that has, like longer than almost any other industry to modernize. Like still have fax machines like we legitimately yeah it's fucking crazy we're stalling yeah this is this is a banter this is vamping oh

0:05:47 Eli: Fuck yeah baby hey stalling because we're still waiting on thomas um you hear because I know you do a bunch of wire transfer stuff have you heard that like everyone is saying we have to stop doing wire transfers because of how good ai is at tricking people into fucking up their wire transfer so it was already a huge fraud problem right and now it's just a way worse one no

0:06:05 Tom: It's a huge problem dude it it's huge problem what's so funny is that like in most of money in our industries is big money and it gets It's moved electronically. And in fact, in Illinois, because of some boring state laws, if the money is over $50,000, you have to move it electronically. We're required to receipt the money in as a wire. So you can't even show up with a cashier's check for $51,000. It's not a thing. That's called the Illinois Good Funds Law. Not every state has that, but many do. But we have to do everything by wire, and everybody wants their money wired. So when somebody sells a house, they don't want you to give them a check. That's like how we did it 20 years ago. But nobody wants a check that they have to deposit and has to clear. So everybody's stealing everybody's money. There is an enormous amount of crazy wire fraud and AI is making that even worse. And actually there's an entirely new scam that's going out that is like twist on an old scam. But like people are selling homes that they don't own now

0:06:32 Eli: You cannot of course yeah yes

0:07:05 Tom: And they're doing it wildly successfully we've had deals that we have caught literally we were a handful of minutes away from pushing the button like there's not literally one button but there's kind of one button there's kinda one button right so we're we're moments away from like a deal a transaction action of, you know, and like, we find out just in the nick of time that like the guy purporting to be the seller, that's not the seller.

0:07:06 Eli: This is a big thing there's kind of one but just

0:07:33 Tom: That motherfucker doesn't own the house. That's just some dude happens all the fucking time now that people try that shit. So yeah, we've got pretty good, like measures in place. So I don't think we've actually, since we put those measures in place, had a loss, but like people fucking test the fences 30 times a week.

0:07:33 Eli: A fucking guy yep mm -hmm yeah oh million because it's so much money it's you make a hundred thousand dollars if you get it right but tom you know the only thing worse than losing your home to wire fraud or your potential home to fire fraud it's the auto autoads joining our podcast for those autoads just button on in for those autoads is the one the only thomas smith now

0:07:51 Tom: It's crazy. Yeah. You get it right. Yeah.

0:08:09 Thomas: Hey I'm an auto ad hello well

0:08:12 Tom: Thomas Smith.

0:08:14 Eli: Are both recording and uh patrons we we predicted why you are late uh our patrons over at patreon.com/dearolddads they don't get any autoads in the show they also get a commercial free version of the show they get a little parenting story at the very end of the show they get bonus episodes but this week this week I want our patrons also to find out why you're late take it away T-Dog patreon.com/dearolddads for the answer do it right now and then we'll beep it out

0:08:20 Thomas: That's not hard. Are you saying I'm doing it on the Patreon only, or? Oh, the fucking kids are sick again, and came in a million times last night.

0:08:58 Eli: Fucking got it in one nailed it nailed it Nailed it.

0:09:00 Tom: Got it in one. You got it in one Jesus

0:09:03 Thomas: And, they came in a bunch, and I'm exhausted, and then I messed up my alarm, because came in much. Yeah, that's that's not hard, yeah.

0:09:03 Tom: Christ. Literally you of doing the actual impression of him. It's yeah you got the

0:09:11 Eli: Hundred percent. Nailed. It. Well, patrons, you might find out what I nailed. You heard the first part. Or maybe you didn't. I don't know. Sleepy Lydia will have to figure that out.

0:09:19 Thomas: We'll figure it out in posts. Yeah.

0:09:21 Eli: You can figure that over at patreon.com/dearolddads. Like his children's illness into Thomas' sleep schedule. Rip into it.

0:09:40 Thomas: A miss.

0:09:42 Eli: Got a listener email today, Thomas. Don't worry. This is when you would have heard it anyway.

0:09:49 Tom: No longer behind the eight ball you're all caught up

0:09:51 Eli: Are now at exactly the same yeah honestly his

0:09:51 Thomas: Man. I'm actually, I'm really on

0:09:52 Tom: My god yeah right yeah so this episode comes from nick and I like nick because he his P.S. which I'm going to to read first is this is my favorite podcast tom is the most relatable

0:09:56 Thomas: It. P I bet Tom Thomas is late because he, he also guessed that.

0:10:13 Eli: Kids were sick and they messed up his alarm yeah

0:10:18 Tom: Has the biggest heart and eli is clearly the funniest person I've never met so uh terrible taste in podcasts but still

0:10:25 Thomas: Well, you also haven't met anyone as funny as Eli, so fuck off. Defending his honor a little bit.

0:10:30 Tom: All the question I'm 32 and recently divorced no kids the divorce gave me me the opportunity to chase my dream job, and I landed it. However, the job will involve two to three years of intense training in a new city, and at the end of it will be another city, another location. Doing the math, I expect to be no younger than 36, probably 37 by the time I'm ready to settle down in a city that will be completely new to me. There's waiting periods I didn't mention. Don't freak out about the math. Thomas. I still hope for a future where I'm a father.

0:10:58 Eli: He was shaking on the zencaster call I saw him being like that's not two to three years not two years I

0:11:06 Tom: Still hope for a future where I'm a father, but I'm anxious that I may be giving up that future by taking this career path. I'm pretty bad at meeting new people, and the intensity of the training will at times sap much of my free time away from me. I know there's still a fine chance I can meet someone and start a family, but I am most certainly reducing my chances of that reality by taking this path. How would you dads deal with or feel about this kind of choice? Have you been forced to make a career versus family choice in the past? I'm I'm pretty set on the path, but I would value your thoughts on this. Career versus family in general, always good stuff.

0:11:41 Thomas: Okay, what do you think this is? Like, I'm just wondering. Is he like a secret agent? Like, what is...

0:11:47 Eli: It's like a it's massan it's excellent yeah you gotta their heads are lower so so it's hard to aim for them.

0:11:48 Tom: Mossad. This is Mossad, 100%. This is just Mossad yeah, yeah, Krav Maga takes a while to learn. It's a whole thing. Yeah, you got it.

0:11:55 Eli: Gotta learn the Krav Maga. Yeah, that's what it is. I would bet that this...

0:11:58 Tom: And the umbrella guns are hard to aim. So.

0:12:02 Eli: Mm-hmm. But it's nice because they wear those Medics crosses, so it is much easier. The press hat really gives them away. I would bet that is one of two things. I would either bet someone has broken through the ceiling in tech, so for those of you who aren't aware, in tech jobs, there's just sort of an ocean of make button jobs where you make like thirty to sixty thousand dollars which hey you know not not bad money but like you literally just make welcome buttons for a company all day every day until the ceo decides he wants a bigger bonus and fires half the company and then you break through into like project management or engineering or something like that and everything it becomes the tech job that you've wanted it to be for the whole time so I'd say it's either that or it's some like cool hippie shit apprenticeship like Joe Steele, the West Coast's greatest blacksmith has agreed to take on four apprentices and I'm one of them.

0:12:09 Tom: See, I was assuming it was something medical. There's I don't know why, but I'm just assuming this is something medical and they had an opportunity to do some kind of residency or something somewhere that, was my assumption. But I don'T fucking know. Whenever I hear that level of intensity, I'm like, yeah, that's probably part of how we train doctors. Where we think they learn best when they're exhausted for some reason.

0:13:04 Thomas: Makes sense. That could make sense. Yeah. Yeah.

0:13:20 Tom: That's how science works.

0:13:21 Thomas: I think he's getting scammed, personally. I think there's something... I think it's just...

0:13:25 Tom: Is it a Nigerian prince? Maybe he's got to do a Nigerien prince scam.

0:13:26 Thomas: No yeah it's it's an ai girl something doing something I

0:13:30 Tom: Got a text message. They asked if I was up, so I was. I was, uh, yeah.

0:13:30 Thomas: Don't know yeah they don know why just like when he's saying like he get have kids for that time I just imagine he's like under deep cover you know he can'T he CAN'T whatever but is it just that he thinks he's gonna be working too hard to meet anybody is that what you're interpreting is

0:13:45 Eli: Working too hard to meet anybody, socialize, I get that.

0:13:49 Tom: Like it sounds he's going to be working very intensely and also going to being in a place where he doesn't have an existing social circle. So if you're working like crazy and you don't know anybody, buddy it's it can be real fucking hard to make new connections like hard

0:14:00 Thomas: I mean if he's getting a really good job where he's going to make tons of money like Like, he could probably find someone to just be a housewife, like me, for example. If he wants to try to put a baby in me and I don't have to work and he just has this great job, I mean, we can try.

0:14:15 Eli: Whatever prevents me from waking up for this podcast, honestly. I'll just fill, my lower intestinal tract with your seed, my friends. Just I need, I need to wake up past noon. That's my ask. I'm a simple man with a simple plan. You do whatever you want downstairs, backwards. I'm going to be up front here snoozing the day away.

0:14:19 Thomas: I'm just tired of the grind.

0:14:39 Eli: So that's what I assume. I we're going to agree on this, but maybe I'm wrong. I 100% recommend going after your dream job and not worrying about kids until you are settled, because you wouldn't want to have kids until you were settled anyways, right? You're going to be, you need the most rock solid of foundations underneath you before you start a family, and still won't work, right, mind that I, I can't speak for Thomas and Tom, I'm the luckiest person in the universe. I'm a professional comedian who works from home, right? One, one child, one single child fucking rocked my shit. Like, I am the Logan Paul of having children. I just abs I'm on my knees clinging to having a child's legs hoping they ring the bell so yeah by all means get yourself settled in and comfortable the other thing is and nick I assume you use he him pronouns but if you don't I apologize in advance when you're a dude they'll fucking ladle your cum out of your 99 year old body into your wife and then you can still have have a baby like it'll be too good at checkers but other than that it's fucking fine you're fine you can have a babies late as you want also sometimes you get tom lucky and you get a bonus family but you start dating 36 37 you know who's gonna be on the market single mom's family included you

0:15:04 Thomas: Still won't work yeah

0:16:11 Eli: Get to shop for the family at the same time you show up hey what is this well this one's good at computers and that one's gonna dress and good all right let's fucking let's make this this happen? Cha -ching! Two bonus kids.

0:16:20 Tom: At dressing good what christ

0:16:23 Eli: How Tom did it.

0:16:24 Tom: Good at dressing good acelyn is so gifted in everything

0:16:27 Thomas: For sure that

0:16:27 Eli: Didn't know what else we could talk about. I know that we have talked about Aislinn loving fashion on the show and I didn'T know what else to say.

0:16:33 Thomas: Was good that was a perfect poll

0:16:35 Tom: She's like all honors and ap classes and everything you know already so she's a a brilliant

0:16:36 Eli: Was thinking on my feet. Yes, good at dressing

0:16:40 Thomas: In dressing good classes,

0:16:41 Tom: Kid so

0:16:40 Eli: Good and also honors and APs. Shit.

0:16:42 Tom: Unbelievable artist but anyway she's good at dressing good yeah that's it yeah

0:16:45 Eli: She would accept my Instagram friend request, well, I could know other things about her interests.

0:16:49 Tom: She's not on instagram I'm not like you think I would you think I would let my kids be on instagram are you fucking kidding me absolutely not

0:16:50 Eli: I think she has a secret account and she and I should be friends on there just in case

0:16:58 Tom: But you know what she does have I will talk about the actual but she's got a character ai account and I saw the character ai is shutting shutting down all of their kids' accounts, and I was so fucking happy to hear that because, like, I have seen what she does on it. It's not problematic, but it still reaches into the very center of me and rubs fucking dirt and grit into the heart of who I am to know she has it. So, like... When they're like, yeah, we're fucking killing this thing for kids, I'm like, yes! Fah -ha! It's a good thing. It's just not me that has to do it.

0:17:20 Eli: Are yeah okay have you seen the law that they're preempting though okay so you know when they write a law and the law accidentally tips the hand of the evil thing that's been happening right like when facebook created facebook kids messenger you were like and it won't let you send any pictures to a stranger and you had to go oh it's because kids were sending pictures to strangers what were they saying I bet it was their dog same thing the law that by the way open ai is spearheading the part of because they're the good ones it's like it's

0:17:47 Tom: Pictures to strangers. Yeah, right.

0:17:54 Thomas: Eli

0:18:00 Tom: My god. Open AI's the good ones, yeah.

0:18:03 Eli: Illegal for an ai to ask someone to you know check in with them more than once a day it's legal for the ai to asked for physical favors in the real world it fucking it rules uh that's the thing you can get yourself a bonus family we don't talk about this a lot but tom was dating three other women while he was dating hayley and he chose her based on her kids and he I remember him saying I don't like hayley that much but these kids are and I'll use his words not mine good now I do not know what he meant by that at the time but that is what he

0:18:21 Thomas: Has a second family. Oh, no.

0:18:23 Tom: What? Wait, what? No, that is not the case. Nope. Nope. My God, Jesus Christ. Nope, I know the kids listen to this. No, no, that's not the truth. No, nope, that isn't the case, nope. Guys had to make any career family compromises at all have that ever come up for you guys where

0:18:58 Thomas: Mean, just the decision to stop having a real job and do podcasting. But I didn't have kids then, so.

0:19:02 Eli: FTP I was there for that

0:19:04 Tom: Made that choice before you had kids didn't you yeah

0:19:06 Thomas: Yeah, yeah I didn' have kids, it's true. But we I were actually already trying to have Phoebe and Lydia, you know, there was kind of the decision of like, hey, is this going to be great if it doesn't work? Like, what's going to happen? You know, so it was, you family knows, related. And then we, you found out Lydia was pregnant finally. It was like the, man, what was it? It was the Christmas party before I left, which was like days before I lost. So it was all, yeah, yeah. It was all set. And then we found out it was like, oh, okay, well, nope. This is going to work.

0:19:33 Eli: I remember this yes Thomas and I had been talking behind the scenes about FTP full time podcaster for those of you not in the lingo and I was like FTP and he was like we're having a baby and I was like hey so can you take that letter back or do they fucking

0:19:50 Tom: Can you unretire

0:19:52 Thomas: Can you take this job and unshev it? Can you you, shove it back?

0:19:57 Tom: In the state of california building like mission impossible ropes to take his resignation letter off the desk

0:20:02 Eli: Lowering himself down into his boss's brain I didn't quit, I still work here I'm asleep up here

0:20:06 Tom: I didn't tell you that so I'm at a place with my work where if I move up one level my money would be ridiculous but like my life will get infinitely worse in terms of my work -life balance so I if I were to move up at all I would have to travel a lot I

0:20:26 Thomas: Cause now it's super healthy. He's got a, you

0:20:28 Tom: Would probably have to stop podcasting for sure and like my time at home with my family would become very limited because I look at my boss's life and that dude is working fucking constantly and he travels a lot I mean he travels probably 30 40 percent of the time and then if you move up from there it gets worse and worse you know but the money gets crazy so I have purposely limited my career at work to say like all right I'm at a place where I have these other obligations, these other things to do. I've got a good work -life balance. I am not really looking. I have a work -lifish work.

0:21:02 Eli: Consider both a work and a life

0:21:08 Tom: I've had conversations, very frank ones. You know, look, I'll I'll take on other responsibilities. I'll grow sort of laterally. Much fatter. Um I won't I can't really move up a there's I'm a certain point where I have to say no to any upward expansion so I'm very sympathetic to the way that like these can be challenging these would be difficult decisions because you know moving up would mean probably a plus of my income you know yeah it would be a big financially speaking it would be ridiculous

0:21:15 Eli: Get fatter can

0:21:32 Thomas: Jesus yeah

0:21:34 Eli: I move up for you? I'll do it hey everybody don't put your signature on the that line put it on the other line

0:21:39 Thomas: Sounds just like him yeah

0:21:38 Tom: And I put like a handful of concentrate if I Put a handful Of like really concentrated years into getting that I know I could get it like I know I could outcompete the other people it would Be in that spot so but I wouldn't do it

0:21:46 Eli: Fired

0:21:57 Thomas: I the idea that that has he'd mentioned his boss and he'd need his boss's job so the couple years is just killing his boss or something that's just like if

0:22:04 Tom: How we do it That's actually how we we do it.

0:22:04 Thomas: I bought it a couple years

0:22:05 Tom: You it's a, it's a Kumite situation and you got to challenge the Kumite and then got to do it.

0:22:06 Eli: Fast but I wear him down like a buffalo gotta sleep eventually not me

0:22:13 Tom: Will say for this listener though, like the deal, man, the jobs in front of you, that's a lock. That's a guarantee. That is a guarantee. And that's what you're going to wake up every day and do for probably, you know, more than eight hours a day from what he was describing.

0:22:25 Thomas: And someone's gonna be waiting in bed at night that's gonna be a

0:22:28 Tom: No, but like, you don't have a loved one. You don't have a wife. You don't, you're not going to have a spouse. You don' t have a partner, a girlfriend, friend like everything else is speculative so it seems like it would be insane to give up something that is as you describe it your dream job something you love you're passionate about that you'd love to throw yourself wholeheartedly into in order to like make room for something that may or may not happen that does not seem like what I would do I would just be like yeah this is the thing I'm passionate about I'm going to pursue my passions and then whatever happens in your life next happens in your life next. But I don't think you should limit your opportunities in the hopes that other opportunities may present themselves that you probably would resent because you gave up this other opportunity. That's not I would do.

0:23:12 Eli: Also, think about how much worse all your bad dates would be if you gave up your dream job for them. You're sitting across from someone, some dental hygienist, who's explaining that actually there's two different brands of Pandolphins. There's the Pandolphin's and then there's Pandolphing Angels. And those are the ones I collect. And you're like, God damn it, I could have been a singer.

0:23:33 Eli: I got into Stanford. Motherfuck. Stanford's school of singer.

0:23:37 Thomas: He's going into a six -year training program for singing yeah I

0:23:42 Eli: So fun fact, and I'm sure I've talked about this on the air. You guys know that like the big career shift, the big like choose between career and life thing I made was for Anna.

0:23:36 Tom: Didn't know it was for Anna. I knew you you had made a

0:23:53 Thomas: It was to stop smoking pot right

0:23:55 Eli: Was just, so that was to stop smoking pot. But with that also came road gigs, right? Because I, I was doing a little bit of standup when Anna and I met and like I was getting sent on the occasional road show, right. The occasional road gig. And I remember my agent at the time being like, Hey, you keep going to Pennsylvania for a weekend. Eventually we're going to get you to Ohio and we're gonna get you all these other places. We can send you out to LA. And as me and Anna started to date, I wanted to do that less and less. I wanted it to go away less and more. And the same happened for her, by the way, she the week we said, three, two, one, go. We are dating. She got a summer stock gig doing Shakespeare, like in fucking go fuck yourself, Beartown, Virginia. Right. Then she was gone for two weeks and we were like, well, this sucks. I don't like when you're gone ever. And I was like, I don'T LIKE WHEN YOU'RE GONE EVER.

0:24:43 Eli: And so we both made these very big adjustments in our careers and livelihoods to sort of account for that sort of first step of our families, which was each other.

0:24:53 Tom: I the case of this listener I think in the case that you're describing same thing for me like if Haley and I had not met I would 100 % be in an entirely different place in my career I because I had this conversation with my boss uh Chex Watch about the time Haley and I got together you know I was like okay same thing like I am not interested in a life where I'm traveling and I'm away from home like this is my life like hayley is my life that is my decision that's what I'm signing up for and I had that conversation with my boss at that point was like okay cool I'm where I'm at like do these things I won't do these I'm not traveling I'm Not going to be gone I'm Not getting I'm, not entering into a relationship in order to leave it to I have, to be away a couple of times a year but it's not so bad it's not so, bad but

0:25:29 Eli: You still go to the golf thing where you tell everybody you hate them. Right. Because that's my favorite thing you do every year. You get to tell everybody, you hate the one they think you're joking.

0:25:42 Tom: But I think that's totally legitimate and it's, I think it's perfectly fine too for people. I know plenty of people that seem to have really good relationships and they can manage that travel because the way that they want to structure their lives, they they, don't need that much time together. Like they're happy to be a part and then they're Happy to come back together.

0:25:58 Thomas: Is really the the key I mean I mean, it's a whole different year. I mean a lot of marriages aren't going to do well with the travel, but some are like it just totally fine. Having the kids is just, there's no fucking way. Like you're not, you're not.

0:26:11 Eli: You can't cheat on your kids.

0:26:15 Tom: Well, I'll tell you, like, even I with the kids in my previous marriage, I would have 100 percent moved up in my career. I would've been like, yeah, this is great for all of us. I just thought of it differently.

0:26:23 Thomas: Well, okay. This is great for all of us. I get to not be fucking over here around my ex.

0:26:28 Eli: I fucking hate Finn so much.

0:26:30 Tom: No, it has nothing to do with Finn. I of being at home was different. And it was also the case at the time that I didn't want to be home with my ex. Like I didn'T want to spend time with her. So it was easy for me to not be there. Right. I made I was already making every excuse in the book to not be there

0:26:40 Eli: To be fair. People have to wait until she goes back to sleep in her coffin to get out of the house with your ex, you know.

0:26:50 Tom: I mean even when I was in the house, I would I would just keep myself busy Doing other shit, you know would have looked at it like okay I can provide this, you Know amazing future and you know set the stuff up financially for the kids I

0:26:54 Eli: Covered in garlic. Garlic and holy water.

0:27:03 Thomas: And I don't have to be there. I don' t have to be. I'll just send the future in an envelope back home each week.

0:27:06 Eli: And I don't have which is the real bonus.

0:27:12 Thomas: So is the thinking then that it's like, okay, if he had something now, like if he, if he had maybe a good relationship and a plan to have kids now, maybe don't do this. But I mean, realistically, like don't give up something. He can always quit, you know, like if it just so happens that he finds somebody, you know. He can always abort the the job, but he can't unabort. No, I'm too tired to think of it. Yeah.

0:27:28 Tom: So yeah though

0:27:33 Eli: Don't abort the kid, because that's really, that's against your wants and needs.

0:27:36 Tom: Or do I mean it's your call no one's here to tell you what to do you know right

0:27:40 Eli: Say this there are also people on the opposite end who are like all I've ever wanted to be is a dad right I have a buddy who just like he's wanted to be a dad his whole life he's a fucking awesome dad and like whatever he does for work is incidental he's like yeah maybe I'll do this maybe I'll do that sounds fun but like what matters to me is my family and being a dad and being a husband and I'm like fuck yeah man go after that get it me

0:28:01 Tom: The is like most people from what this person is describing they have a dream job and never had a dream job I've actually

0:28:07 Thomas: Who is that? Who has a dream job?

0:28:09 Tom: I I have a very good job yeah I it

0:28:11 Thomas: Just Eli.

0:28:10 Eli: I have A DREAM JOB just me I'm the last American with a dream job I took away Noah's and Heath's which is fun they had dream jobs and then I joined and now it's not anymore

0:28:15 Tom: I have a very good job I think if you've got something that you're like actually passionate about there's no way you're gonna throw that away and not feel some feelings about that right because most people don't have a dream job most people aren't deeply passionate about their work most people and I'm not saying nobody is don't fucking write me and say you are like you're not most most always has outliers

0:28:41 Thomas: Those aren't the write -ins we get from people.

0:28:45 Eli: Mostly just Finn being sad that you said you wanted to escape Finn

0:28:48 Tom: Not finn I'd take finn with me on the road but like yeah

0:28:51 Eli: A CFO of this company now fake it same municipality

0:28:57 Tom: Think if you're lucky enough to have a passion holy shit look And you're lucky enough to have a passion that you can work in. And it's not like, yeah, my passion is doing this thing that I have to do off to the side because my Etsy store doesn't actually support my mortgage. Like, you've got a passion. You've got dream job. I 15 % of people, tops, get that. Most people are in drudgery.

0:29:19 Eli: So much lower so

0:29:21 Thomas: I was going to say 0 .15%.

0:29:21 Eli: Much slower than 15

0:29:22 Tom: It's probably, yeah. I think that was a ridiculous estimate, actually. So like, you you're are winning, man. You're winning. That's it fucking keep winning and if the kids come along awesome like eli's got a great point you can marry somebody with kids you're in your 30s most of the dates you're gonna be on those people have kids I didn't date anybody when I was single that didn't have kids

0:29:40 Thomas: One weird trick to...

0:29:42 Eli: And you skip the shitty parts of kids too they're all grown up and they know which clothes they like and shit

0:29:44 Tom: That's true you

0:29:47 Thomas: Man, I disagree more with that. Oh that's the best literally the best time the baby time is the best time it's just this I mean it's all all good I mean I I love every part of it but

0:29:48 Tom: Can skip all the pooping spot yeah fuck it the poopING is the best

0:29:51 Eli: That's true, you might be a baby dad like being a baby dead maybe you move to Utah meet somebody there, a lot of people there willing to accommodate

0:30:04 Thomas: Rules don't you guys miss your little babies ah I miss my little babies

0:30:08 Tom: Not ever not once I

0:30:10 Eli: I gleefully push each second I pass behind me out to sea every single moment is better than the last at each moment I look behind is on fire

0:30:17 Tom: Actually kind of feel exactly the same way I'm like the least nostalgic person for that shit ever

0:30:30 Eli: Don't get me wrong I love the pictures I take a ton of pictures because he's fucking cute as shit and I love remember how fat max was when he was a little baby he was just a fucking

0:30:33 Thomas: Man Man. Little cheeks.

0:30:39 Tom: Everybody who saw pictures of him can only remember that that's the only thing

0:30:41 Eli: He was juste a fucking yeah a lump of cookie dough and that's great but you know what those those pictures don't do spit their passy out six to seven times a night that's

0:30:46 Thomas: It was so good. Yeah, no, that's rough.

0:30:53 Tom: And the remy screaming like that's that's tough like the amen screaming

0:30:55 Thomas: That is still going, so I cannot really miss.

0:30:57 Eli: Still going he's waiting to look mine don't

0:30:58 Thomas: That is all the same.

0:31:00 Eli: Know what you got till it's go home that's

0:31:04 Tom: Haven't seen a diaper in years and I don't miss it. I don't miss that shit.

0:31:07 Eli: Because we don't hang out enough answer

0:31:09 Tom: I think my daddy used to say, and I actually agree with him. He's like, I've enjoyed every moment, every, every age that you guys were, but I'm never nostalgic about them. And I feel the same way I've enjoyed. I enjoyed the babies when they were babies, but like, Like like that time has passed. Like It's like when you get a puppy, it's like a puppy is fucking cute, but it's a shit ton of work. And I'm kind of ready for it to stop being a puppy. And I am like, yeah, I want don't that again. I loved it, but I don' t want it again. I am good. Like this thing that we are doing, it is new. It is interesting. It keeps me excited about like the next set of transitions in your lives. But like I am not looking back being like, ah, remember when that thing pissed in the corner all the time? That was awesome. Like, it's not

0:31:10 Eli: My fucking calls yeah no

0:31:49 Tom: Awesome. It's not. Like, no, I don't miss it.

0:31:52 Thomas: That's a bad example because there is no part of having a dog that is... No, sorry. Just kidding.

0:31:58 Tom: I mean, I know, man, having a puppy and having a baby are not that different. Like, there's a lot of.

0:32:03 Thomas: That was not the comment. There there's no part of having the dog that's the good part

0:32:04 Eli: They do send you to jail

0:32:05 Tom: I know that's that's enjoyable.

0:32:07 Eli: If you put it outside though that's the thing not even once no matter how much it's scratching at the door you leave it outside side for 10 minutes they cops come it's a real negative nancy's about it uh other thing that I wanted to talk about when it comes to this is that think that that there has been a false equivalency put into the atmosphere and actually I think it's just kind of like a tool of patriarchy that backfired slightly which is that like you have to choose between a career and a a family. And I think that's largely just been an argument aimed at women to be like, oh, you're getting past child rearing age. But like, that's largely a construct. And it's definitely a way weirder construct than the biological realities of how long someone can have kids for. So truly, do not not do sweat that kind of thing.

0:33:00 Tom: I don't know, man, because like for the cost of child care, I actually think that oftentimes there is a real choice about whether or not you can do both because there's a lot of of there's jobs that basically just cover or don't cover the cost of child care And can there's some math that you kind of need to do at some point and say like can we actually afford? Literally afford to do this or not afford to doing this and I think that's That's perfectly legitimate. I think the real like when I think about like the intersection between career and family All of this conversation has been incredibly privileged. What most people encounter is like when they're talking about the intersection of career and family is that remember this when I was working like I remember this when I was working like crazy like felt like I had this constant like one-sided pressure that was impossible to satisfy where I had to work I breadwinner. I had to work. I had work a lot. I was working minimum 60, sometimes 80 hours a week. I did it for years. And it was like, all right, well, I've got to do this. I got to provide. I got take care of everybody. I got put money into the machine so we can have a place to live. We weren't like making tons of money, but we were getting by okay. It's like, I got do that. But it's all right. At the same time, be bonded with your family.

0:33:35 Eli: Condoms feel weird. Yep.

0:34:10 Tom: And you're like, well fucking how? How am I supposed to? I'm never here. I'm here. I'm exhausted all the time. I the crack of dawn. I throw coffee in the machine. I put clothes on. I run out the door. I work fucking 14 hours a day, six days a week. And it's like, why aren't you close to your family? It's like I don't fucking know them.

0:34:29 Eli: Better fucking go play catch the minute you get home or I'm turning gay.

0:34:32 Tom: Don't know me. That's the other thing is they don' t know the stresses that I have, the things I'm thinking about.

0:34:38 Eli: That's the other part, is you don't get to share anything about your day, right? To be a supportive parent in those situations, you, all whatever happened for you all day has to be left at the door so you can come in and be like, he you took two graham crackers when one. Wow. Well, fuck. I'm zoned all the way in on that. By the way, Greg at work died. He was in a motorcycle accident. Anyways, the point is I do remember that happened to you that's the example I was thinking of

0:34:41 Tom: Right, yeah. That literally happened. Do you remember when that happened to me at work? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:35:06 Thomas: How did you remember that wow oh

0:35:08 Eli: Remember it was the day Tom's work friend died in a motorcycle accident and he came straight was it the funeral or just the death? Did you come drenched in blood? It was the funeral you came from the death adjacent event directly to our record and he was like alright I'm ready to go time for japes and japery and we were all like hey man do you want a minute? And you were like why? Oh, do I still have blood on my shirt? He was full of blood, let me tell you. I'll miss him.

0:35:17 Tom: Went to the funeral. I went to the funeral, for sure.

0:35:39 Thomas: Someone took him out to get his job that's it's

0:35:42 Tom: That's it, yeah?

0:35:42 Eli: What it was. That's how it works. Time.

0:35:46 Tom: That's when I came up with my brilliant idea. I still want to open a Harley Davidson themed funeral home. God, it's a fucking money printing machine.

0:35:52 Eli: It's a great idea. Yes.

0:35:55 Tom: Oh God. It's still, it'S the best financial thing I'm never going to do. Somebody's got to do it. Somebody take my idea and open a motorcycle themed funeral home, print money, and then just send me a fucking winky face.

0:36:08 Eli: Exactly. Just Just send him a little something. A little something, a little cheesecake on the holidays, maybe.

0:36:14 Tom: I will say like, think I it is an insane position that we put people in, especially because it is because Because the cost of childcare is so brutally expensive, what happens very often is somebody ends up staying home and then that sucks ass, right? Because there's all kinds of unhelpful, unpleasant, boring, difficult parts of being a stay-at-home parent, especially for young kids. But the cost of childcare is unsubsidized and wildly out of step with inflation. And then that person's resume grows stale and there's all those problems with skills and re-entering the workforce. For us then the other person is working is working their fucking ass off because we have an economy that's set up to not allow a single income earner to actually support a family unless they work like a fucking animal and then like it's impossible to maintain relationships you as the person out earning it's like all right well how am I supposed to be bonded with people

0:37:08 Thomas: Well and both People feel like they're missing out or you know it's like often both those things feel like you're in the shittier situation and it's it's hard to blame either person for being like well I'm stuck at home it's Like yeah well i'M fucking working and don't get to see you the family enough it's It's neither side of that can be fun potentially and it can really cause trouble right

0:37:29 Tom: A fucking mess and like there's both that there's like well you if you come home from work and don't and you know immediately like grab the kids and start taking care of the kids when do I get a break that's fucking fair but the other side is like if I wake up and run out the door and go to work and work all day and commute a fucking hour and a half home and walk in the door and pick up the kids when do I get a break the thing is nobody that no gets a break nobody gets any break it's always unfair to everybody and because we have a difficult time like creating systems where people can have real conversations with each other instead we pigeonhole each other into these gender -based roles very often and we decide whose responsibility the kids is and whose responsibility work is everybody feels shitty and everybody feels bad in the equation it's not good and it's a it's the direct result of a bad capitalist system that's killing all of us oh

0:37:47 Thomas: Nobody can say he breaks uh

0:38:19 Eli: Indeed it is. Indeed it it is, indeed right, gentlemen, before we go, having sex can make your day, but having anal sex can make your whole week.

0:38:37 Tom: My god that's that's something that's something Eli Bosnick do

0:38:41 Thomas: Let me

0:38:46 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email thedads at dearolddads .com or better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle and the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues, LLC, copyright 2022, all rights reserved.

0:39:30 Eli: He's a busy man. He's better fucking go play catch the minute you get home or I'm turning gay.

0:39:32 Thomas: He wants to try to put a baby in me and

0:39:40 Tom: But it still reaches into the very center of me and rubs fucking dirt and grit into the heart of who I am to

0:39:49 Eli: Condoms feel weird.