U.S. v. Dunn 1 - Assault with a Deli Weapon

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:01 Clip: All rise, the court is now in session.

0:00:12 Clip: The court is reconvened and may be seated to maintain order. The federal rise is based on the jury's argument to its verdicts.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavel in, gavel in. Oh, we've got a new gavelino. I'm Thomas, that over there is Lydia, and yeah, I was just going to say, I need to figure, what are your gavel pronouns?

0:00:33 Lydia: Gavaly Stelidia.

0:00:39 Matt: Yeah.

0:00:39 Thomas: Welcoming back, an original gavelista. It's Matt Cameron. How are you doing? Yeah, gavenos and gavelistas is what we've gotten so far.

0:00:42 Matt: Wow. Gavalero? I could be, maybe? Gavalera. Gaballero? Wait, I don't know. Anyway. Lots of ways to get there. But yeah, I'm very excited to be back. Of course, I love this show and love what you guys have been doing with it, but I'm ready to get back to you. I've been excited to do this since we first realized we could do it, to cover this trial in particular, because it's a perfect gavel -gavel trial, as far as I'm concerned, because it's very short, it's fairly simple, it'S very entertaining, and nobody got hurt, most importantly. That's what I really like in this.

0:00:59 Lydia: It loves you.

0:01:18 Thomas: Bar well a sandwich did but

0:01:19 Matt: Nobody actually got hurt. Well, that's true. A sandwich was wasted. No. It is also an acquittal. So just to spoil everything, justice will get done in this case. That'S another reason we're talking about it.

0:01:22 Thomas: And and hopefully whoever it was thrown at but I don't know let me give our gavelinos some more context because these are folks who've been listening to

0:01:39 Lydia: The diehard Lively V. Baldoni folks. Yeah.

0:01:40 Thomas: Yeah exactly they're gonna be like so which sandwich was lively and which sandwich Was Baldoni yeah so we had mentioned gosh now a month back we had had mentioned that we were going to try to incorporate another trial or, you know, legal thingy, I suppose, either way, into this because obviously it's been now a year since the Baldoni thing first broke.

0:02:04 Lydia: That's so crazy.

0:02:05 Thomas: So our first episode, it hasn't quite been a year, but it's been a years since the article dropped, essentially.

0:02:08 Lydia: I think we're at 10 months. Yeah.

0:02:13 Thomas: And that's too long. It's too long to be working on this one thing. But that is really feeling like it's going to trial. I mean, I mean, I think we'll have an answer pretty soon because the judge is doing a lot of the, like, force them to do the settlement talk that they have to do. I think that's formality or I don't think it's going well. I don'T think it'S going to go well. So I am glad that we're, you know, right on top of that and going to have all the info we need, possibly going into covering a trial of that, which will be really fun. But at the same time, it's been a lot and we've wanted to be able to do other stuff, see other trials. You know, we're not

0:02:27 Lydia: Break it up a little bit. Monagos.

0:02:51 Thomas: Dedicated monogamists in life or law. And we've been keeping our eye out. I think we've got our trial. I think we've got it. Matt, why don't you tell us why we landed on this one?

0:03:07 Matt: There are so many reasons to cover this trial. But I know, first of all, it's a case that everybody, at least briefly on social media, really enjoyed. And we got to have some joy in our lives, right? We have to enjoy the small things. And the fact is that we have this hero, this man, Sean Dunn. I'm going to say right up front that it is the official position of this show that you do not throw things at ICE officers. Please do not take anything we're saying as endorsement of throwing things at ice officers. Just need to say that disclaimer right up from the beginning. Yeah. Yeah.

0:03:32 Thomas: Legal question. Can I say, but it's also sick as hell, even if I say don't, don't do it.

0:03:37 Matt: So yeah, that's the problem with this episode is that you're going to agree, I think, by the end that Sean Dunn is actually a hero because the reason he did this actually wasn't really reported.

0:03:46 Thomas: The sandwich was too spicy? I don't know. No, he was, it was a Larry David-ish situation in which he would actually just didn't like his sandwich had nothing to do with ice. Yeah.

0:03:57 Matt: Just disposing of a sandwich and it happened to be an ICE officer there.

0:03:59 Lydia: Garbage

0:03:59 Thomas: And he's like, yeah. Took up a whole cause behind him. Yeah.

0:04:03 Matt: There's just a lot more context here, I think, that is worth talking about. Sort of the stretch goal here is we'd love to get the defendant's lawyers on, but we'll see how it goes. But as federal charges go, this is not too serious, as I was saying, but it's indicative of something that's going on in D .C. right now, which is that they're charging all kinds of people with federal crimes who should not be charged with federal crime, and grand juries and juries are not playing. They just aren't interested.

0:04:23 Matt: I went and checked, and of 100 people charged with felony assaults on federal agents in this kind of situation around the country, 55 have already been reduced to misdemeanors or dismissed already. All five defendants who've gone to trial on these kinds of things have already been acquitted, including this one.

0:04:37 Thomas: The sandwich six.

0:04:39 Matt: I think it's relevant because this kind of thing does not belong in federal court, but it's D .K., so they've just been throwing throwing everything to federal court. And this also happened right at the beginning of sort of the Trump invasion of DC. So it's a kind of a tense time to begin with. But the really exciting thing about this is we have the transcript, which no one else has.

0:04:41 Lydia: Literally nobody else you guys mm

0:05:02 Thomas: That's an important thing to say. So the reason that you're listening to this is that it is silly how much it costs to get these stupid transcripts. No offense to transcriptionists who apparently must have a good union or something or whatever they have the stranglehold over that. I'm sure they do great work, but we decided to get this transcript because nobody else was likely going to do that. It's entirely possible nobody else has done this.

0:05:28 Matt: There's no reason to. He was acquitted. So there's not going to be an appeal. There's no reason for a transcript ever would have been prepared unless some idiots asked for it. And here we are. That's us.

0:05:35 Lydia: Hey here is here are the idiots yeah yeah

0:05:35 Thomas: Yeah. And we're the idiots. Yeah, and so I just wanted folks, this is like an investment that we've made to do this series. So if you feel so inclined to perhaps pledge at patreon .com slash gavel pod to you know maybe maybe reimburse a dollar that we've put it's uh it's more than you would think it's a more than it's a lot more than I thought as an average person that uh transcript would cost um but I think it'll be worth it because uh I I just can't wait to get every moment of the testimony of the sandwich especially oh

0:06:00 Matt: Having

0:06:07 Lydia: I cannot

0:06:08 Matt: Read it, this is something we can actually cover gavel to gavel as promised, because it's a two-day trial with two witnesses. There's some interesting legal arguments even. We can talk about the use of 18 U .S .C. 111 and how that's been abused around the country and why the statute is kind of dangerous for the one he was charged with pertaining to anything that looks like an assault on a law enforcement officer. I'm really happy we did this. And I do want a special shout out to Lorraine Herman, the transcriptionist who I was in touch with on this. Very sweet, very helpful. She graciously began work on this just before Thanksgiving. And I think she probably had a little fun with it because she sat through this trial. I am sure she remembered it. And it's not every day that you see a trial this silly in federal court.

0:06:12 Thomas: What does that mean does she get to make up some of what happened what What are you talking about?

0:06:47 Matt: She can edit it.

0:06:47 Thomas: What does she go to work on? Okay, first legal question. I don't know if we should go after the commercial break yet. Didn't they already transcribe it? What were they doing when they did their fancy three -pronged typewriter thing, their weird thing they have? What's the additional work they do after that? They type it in Klingon, and then they got to translate it?

0:07:01 Matt: I don't know specifically. They're usually, they're sitting there with that mask on, you know, where they're just kind of talking to the record so they can go back and type it up later if they need to.

0:07:17 Thomas: Wait, who uses the tiny three -legged, the little typewriter that's got the weird keys?

0:07:22 Matt: Yeah. The shorthand. Yeah. I, I don't know enough about court reporting, to be honest.

0:07:28 Thomas: Matt, have you ever been to court?

0:07:31 Matt: All of the courts I go to just have a digital record. Nobody's sitting there. You know, I don't go to courts that are important enough. That would, yeah. And pretty soon I'm, I'm afraid these people are going to be out of a job because it's going to be very easy to generate transcripts, like flawless transcripts I think, but

0:07:34 Thomas: Oh boy, that makes way more sense. Yeah, why not just do that? Hmm.

0:07:43 Matt: You know I'm happy to give them the money in the meantime, or I guess give them your money more to the point yeah, so, but again this is a very entertaining trial, I have read it we are pretty much, as far as I know, pretty much going to do every line of this trial, because there's a lot of little fun moments in it it's so short, you know, why not, it's only two days we paid for it,

0:08:03 Thomas: Yeah, can't wait. And it's going to be the return of voice acting. I'll be playing the sandwich. Cannot wait. It's the role I was born to play. There's so much more to get into with the why and the how and the sandwich of it all. And why don't we take our first break?

0:08:08 Matt: Yes, I can't

0:08:10 Lydia: Wait yes it's like you're a court reporter already the who the how the what the where the why

0:08:24 Thomas: Do you think a court reporter is like, just

0:08:25 Lydia: I think all reporters are interested in the facts that's what I think

0:08:30 Matt: Wait we're journalists, of course we are

0:08:31 Thomas: The facts, man. Okay.

0:08:36 Lydia: Gavel out I

0:08:40 Thomas: Anyway, Lydia's done a drive-by on her recording. No, after the break, and again, you can reimburse our transcription fees at patreon.com/gavelpod, and we'll definitely make sure to have plenty of bonus extras for you on this little series. And we will obviously be continuing Lively v. Baldoni as we go as well there's so much to talk about and catch up on that we never will but we can die trying support the show lose the ads and all that and after this break we'll get more into the sandwich where were we matt

0:09:17 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:09:17 Matt: Gay nightlife in dc I think is where we were so let's pick that up yep it's extremely relevant this

0:09:21 Thomas: Does a sandwich have a backstory I don't know about that's

0:09:26 Matt: Is the context that I think people should know but we're going to talk about sort of setting the stage here the scene of the crime uh sort of the timeline of the crime we're gonna watch the video of the crime because that exists

0:09:37 Thomas: Another great reason that we're doing this one we can actually watch the video of the crime which is pretty it's pretty rare that I'd be happy about that because usually we're talking about something horrible yeah but no we're just talking about a sandwich

0:09:45 Lydia: It's usually very dark yeah

0:09:44 Matt: Yeah right and usually that means a conviction when there's a video of a crime so not so much here this happened on 14th and U Street in D.C. which is a very well-known nightlife district, and there was a gay club nearby having a Latin night. So that is the context for this. The other thing that people need to understand is that the National Guard entered DC on August 7th, and Trump had made noise about starting to take over DC police. I'm sure everybody remembers. This incident happens on August 10th in the nightlife district when federal troops have only been there for a couple of days and tensions are getting high because DC residents don't want them there for the most part.

0:10:20 Thomas: We in this year of the of 2025 that happened and the trial already is that normal is it just because we're no okay wow

0:10:23 Matt: This happened very quickly. Yep. No, no. It goes to show like this is, and we'll talk about the charges in a second, but yeah.

0:10:33 Thomas: Didn't they also fail famously we you know joke that they failed to indict a hand sandwich a ham sandwich a couple of times holy crap okay sorry got

0:10:40 Matt: Yep. Now we'll take about that in just a second. That is yeah. No. And the timeline really tells you a lot about how serious this case really is because it really all happened very quickly. Now we enter Sean Dunn. And so this is the defendant in this case. He's 37 years old.

0:10:55 Thomas: Prime sandwich throwing age he's still got, I mean, well he's a little later years of sandwich throwing like greatness you know, he's still got it, he's got some zip on that sandwich like you can you could sometimes you see a glimpse of the sandwich thrower he was at 24 you know when he first came into the

0:11:11 Lydia: Interesting kershaw

0:11:06 Matt: Well, you know, yeah, sure. But at some point, like you're in your forties, is you got to start coaching because, you know, it's over. But I know how that goes.

0:11:16 Thomas: League yeah yeah even uh the dodgers pitcher and what's his name yeah even clayton kershaw finally hung it up the greatest sandwich thrauer there maybe ever was except he's on the side of the fascists so okay but oh

0:11:27 Matt: We'll never know. Oh, well. He did pretty well in the Air Force. Now, he was an international affairs specialist at the Department of Justice. That's what makes this case extra interesting to me. He's a DOJ employee, a paralegal, essentially.

0:11:37 Thomas: Oh I don't think I knew that holy shit okay yeah

0:11:40 Matt: Yeah. One of the many interesting things about this. And he was using his skills to investigate cybercrimes. I was looking at his GoFundMe here, which we can actually, there's probably no reason to give to his GoFUNDMe at this point, but let me just check in on that. Yeah, that's right. We should get a cut.

0:11:47 Thomas: I know go fund me for buying your sandwich transcript dude yeah oh my

0:11:56 Matt: His His GoFundMe was called Help Support the Sandwich Guy, and he raised $28,126 out of $35,000. That's not too bad.

0:12:04 Thomas: God but for going through this trial I mean come on now I'm back to being sympathetic

0:12:08 Matt: Well, he didn't have to pay most of his lawyers, as we'll talk about. So he was investigating cybercrime and child exploitation and fraud. But he also, again, previously before DOJ, had served a couple of deployments as an Air Force comms tech and also joined the Forest Service and was fighting forest fires in New Mexico. So he's had a pretty interesting career. He's been around. He was out that night, and He saw CBP, Customs and Border Protection, out on the streets of DC, which is a very unusual thing to see. And here we are out near the gay nightlife district, and they're standing right next to a club that was having Latin night. And he puts things together that CBP might be there to enforce and pick up brown people.

0:12:48 Matt: And that was the state that you see him in, in the video that we're going to watch. But before we watch that, let me just remember why federal troops are in DC, and we're gonna have to have Stephen Miller explain it to us. I thought that was worth just playing very quickly, because again, this is the context. These aren't just regular cops. These are federal troops in the streets of DC because, well, I'll let him say it.

0:12:47 Lydia: Give

0:12:58 Thomas: Good oh

0:13:08 Clip: To secure the city of washington for the people who live here for all the american people and all who visit here is our capital city it is more violent than baghdad it is more violent in parts of ethiopia parts of many of the most dangerous places in the world it's it's really shocking if you should look at the graph that has been shown comparing parts of some of the worst dangerous failed states in the the world compared to DC. DC is more violent and so he's going to do what's necessary to make sure our nation's capital is safe for all Americans. Thank you.

0:13:19 Lydia: Me a break

0:13:37 Matt: They don't even eat sandwiches in Ethiopia, so I'm sure it's even more dangerous here.

0:13:40 Thomas: Sure well it's hard here because we have the fully automatic sandwiches that you know they don't I don't even, other countries learned from this and they banned, they had one sandwich massacre and they're like, never again. And we're like no, we've got custom reloaded sandwiches that, that's true.

0:13:45 Lydia: Reek yeah never again yeah

0:13:55 Matt: I mean, the way we load our sandwiches up to begin with is, you know, it's obscene. A lot of ammo in there.

0:13:59 Lydia: They are dangerous actually yeah they could kill

0:14:03 Thomas: America's a real outlier in sandwich-related deaths.

0:14:06 Matt: All right. So let's take a look at the actual crime. That is the next clip here. It is a very quick clip.

0:14:13 Thomas: Well, let's comment on the Voldemort that we just saw. I just think it's worth mentioning right around the time we're recording is when the Vanity Fair stuff happened and the comment, it's just out of a movie that I don't even know if anyone is creative enough to have written, which is Stephen Miller apparently telling the photographer, like, you know, you have a lot of discretion and the kindness you show to people or whatever he said, just baffling. I don'T know if he's purely trolling or if it had anything to do with whatever. And then the photographer's like, yeah, so do you, buddy.

0:14:36 Lydia: You mm -hmm

0:14:47 Matt: So good.

0:14:47 Thomas: It's just so funny to hear this interview and just think of that. Like, yeah, he's going around telling other people like, hey, be kind.

0:14:47 Lydia: Yeah mm

0:14:55 Matt: The fact that kind isn't as a vocabulary, that's, who knew? Who knew? So then, yeah, that is Stephen Miller. And then, of course, we covered this on our way back in August when this was all happening. But of course at the beginning of the year, a different DOJ led by a different president announced that DC crime was at a 30 -year low and carjackings are down 53%. And then of course Big Balls, Edward Korostein, was carjacked.

0:15:14 Thomas: Oh yeah, someone sandwiched that guy.

0:15:18 Matt: Sandwiched. There we go. It's a verb. Yeah. So this is the context is that Sean Dunn is out for a night and sees CBP standing near a club that, and I will note too, that intersection, there's actually a Latin American queer history museum, like right there on that block.

0:15:17 Lydia: Got a knuckle sandwich

0:15:18 Thomas: Yeah, that guy got sandwiched. Oh, wow.

0:15:36 Matt: So it seems pretty notable. So that is the state of mind he's in when this happens. This isn't just walking down the street and seeing a CBP officer and losing your mind and throwing a sandwich. But we can see if you want to describe what you're looking at before we hit play

0:15:48 Thomas: Well, we see a guy in a pink shirt and some blurry officers of some kind. That's all I got so far. Sorry, I'm not much help as an eyewitness, Matt. I'm gonna be terrible at trial. Or am I gonna be good? I don't know, maybe I'll be good. Yeah, I didn't see much, just the pink shirt guy. Guy okay is pink shirt guy the guy

0:15:54 Matt: All right yeah that's right he's the guy that is Sean Dunn yeah he's

0:16:10 Thomas: Oh my god I love this guy already so he seems to be doing now I'm at three seconds I'm gonna break this down frame by frame like zapruder he he's doing some sort of um a very sarcastic getting in the face of an officer he seems to be mocking the officer with gusto which I really respect I mean this is a this is like a Homer-esque gesture I can only see him from behind and I can't hear what he's saying but the body gyrations he's doing while he's mocking the officers they tell a story. Like he's, and he's bending his knees. He's got good form. Like, he's actually, yeah, yeah. Like He's like, he is just going after this guy right in his face, but it just seems to be doing mocking stuff. And he's in a pink, looks like probably a polo. Might be a collar on that bad boy. Can't tell. Pink shirt and shorts, shorts

0:16:33 Matt: Upset

0:16:46 Lydia: Him oh protecting his back yeah okay

0:17:05 Thomas: That go, you know, tasteful there he's not wearing like the shorts that uh you know that we wore in the 90s that we thought were stylish that go all the way down past your knees he's wearing a nice stylish cut that lydia would love me wearing which is like yeah you know halfway down the thighs essentially a little further down okay I'll keep going that's not him whoa and then

0:17:15 Lydia: Good yeah yeah yeah

0:17:25 Matt: No these uh these sandwich artists don't mess around with wrapping up a sandwich I mean this is this is a tightly wrapped

0:17:30 Thomas: He turns to start to go it's like he's had enough of making fun of this guy and then He sort of considers the sandwich first but this all happens in a split second and all right this is me I'm making this up but if I'm If I'm his inner monologue, I'm like, oof, man, I still have a lot of this sandwich left. Ah, that's a lot. Do I want to throw this in? It was going to be my leftover. You know, it wasn't that good, though. The sandwich was not as good as I thought it was going be. I'll just buy another sandwich. Okay. And then he just chucks it at him, disappointed to see that the sandwich remained fully intact and hit just his, because it was wrapped up. It was fully wrapped and it hit his chest. I was I guess this whole time I was envisioning like a nice open face sandwich into an open face you know just like a meatball sub yeah they're having to draw chalk outline of all the lettuce you know and

0:17:34 Lydia: And then psych yeah yeah sure

0:17:57 Matt: Sandwich

0:18:00 Lydia: Oh really oh it was wrapped okay okay yeah well you have it like on like a roll right and then the bread like kind of comes apart and the lettuce flies into the air You know, like I want that visualization. The lettuce splatter.

0:18:27 Thomas: Then he throws it I'm gonna get make sure I get that again again we gotta know this is my analysis that I provide is important so he decides he turns throws the sandwich right at the guy there's a chance hold on there's a chance upon further analysis I'm gonna I'm gonna do some a cut down to slow -mo he's got okay there's a chance that the sandwich there's a chance I'm going to review that the sandwich because of the weight of it relative to the wrapper flies out above the officer's head and only the wrapper hits him like it kind of looks like something flies off of it hold on a sec or or if we've got a footlong famously it could be you know how they do the footlong and then they cut it

0:18:51 Lydia: What? Yeah. The six and the six. Yeah.

0:19:11 Thomas: In half like in the wrapper usually I it's possible that the debris I'm seeing the shrapnel that that comes off of it could be the other the other six inches that let's see okay reviewing yeah

0:19:23 Lydia: Wait, he throws a footlong at him? Holy crap. I didn't know it was a foot long.

0:19:26 Matt: That's a big sandwich

0:19:27 Thomas: Okay hold on okay we got in the moment of impact I'm gonna hold on I'm going to cut it down to 0 .25 everybody this is to really get yeah oh yeah we gotta get the mother motherfucker well now it's just a tool song so I don't know I think that was it I think that was the well he doesn't say motherfucker the other oh you mean there was that the famous utter utterer of the motherfucker let's see yeah

0:19:37 Lydia: Motherfuck.

0:19:48 Matt: Very industrial

0:19:52 Lydia: Was that him saying motherfucker? Yeah, I know. I know the amazing person that's filming it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

0:20:12 Thomas: That was a okay because I heard the note you know I would like to know I can take this sound and slow it down in a way that actually preserves uh the sounds better this is just the youtube shitty algorithm off the top of of its head. So anyway, sound aside, cause that's so annoying. I'm going to mute it as I, as I go 0 .25 here. All right. I got, this is important. I think it is either part of the sandwich or the full thing. Cause he throws it frame by frame. Yeah. It hits him.

0:20:40 Thomas: It hit his shoulder. Oh, okay. I'll pretty sure. I pretty sure I'm pretty sure that's just the wrapper it fly or that's a little bag that it's in. Cause the sandwich flies over his shoulder, like it hits his shoulder and flies over and then what falls on the on the ground you can see is just like paper I'm wondering if we're gonna blow the lid off this whole thing what

0:20:40 Matt: I've got stills

0:20:58 Lydia: Interesting. Freaking baby. Baby.

0:21:00 Matt: Also you're a sandwich truther I mean sandwiches can't melt steel beams it's well known Sorry. Now, I will just point out that I did send you the complaint. You can look at page two with stills. And what's really funny about it is they could only get stills from this Instagram user, so it has the caption in the stills also as

0:21:02 Thomas: What if the sandwich never technically hit him and it was just a wrapper the cheese can't melt the no I don't know wait this very one that we're on oh that's fantastic

0:21:24 Matt: Part of the evidence. Yes, check out Statement of Facts. And you can take a look at the still for yourself. Of course, we're going to link to all this so everybody can play along at home. Very seriously describing the crime and then showing you the still photos.

0:21:37 Thomas: Uh oh wow here we go yeah and hon why don't you uh why don'T you read read some of

0:21:45 Lydia: At approximately 11 .06 p .m., Dunn approached V1 and threw a sandwich at him, striking V1 in the chest.

0:21:53 Matt: Victim one. He's not a missile. Yeah. Mustard stains. Yeah, you should go up a paragraph actually read what he said because it is relevant.

0:21:54 Lydia: Victim one. Victim? Jeez. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Okay, yeah, sure.

0:21:57 Thomas: This v1 victim one big is was there other victims that got residual like sandwich yeah mustard gas thing oh that was so funny it cleared up my my illness thank you

0:22:16 Lydia: Dunn stood within inches of V1. Okay, I'll just start from the beginning.

0:22:18 Thomas: Hold on well then you might as well just start let's just read the statement of facts,

0:22:21 Lydia: All right, I'm going to start from here. I'll start from beginning, folks. On August 10th, 2025, at approximately 11 p.m., Metro Transit Police Detective Dana Henry, badge number D948, 8, and members of United States Customs and Border Protection, CBP, were patrolling the area of 2001 14th Street NW in Washington, D .C. Detective Henry observed an individual, herein referenced as Sean Charles Dunn, begin to shout at CBP agent Gregory Lairmore, herein referenced as V1, who was, at the time of the offense, an employee of the United States and acting in performance of his official duties.

0:22:27 Thomas: Sandwich time and not a fan of subway.

0:23:00 Lydia: Dunn stood within inches of V1, pointed his finger in V1's face, and yelled, Fuck you, you fucking fascist. Why are you here? I don't want you in my city. Dunn continued his conduct for several minutes before crossing the street and continuing to yell obscenities at V1.

0:23:11 Thomas: Amen. Wait, what?

0:23:16 Lydia: At approximately 11:06 p.m., Dunn approached V1 and

0:23:19 Thomas: Oh, he comes back for a second. Okay. We didn't see that. Okay.

0:23:23 Lydia: Threw a sandwich at him, striking V1 in the chest.

0:23:26 Thomas: Oh, we didn't get any language about his, like, it almost looked like he was doing a chicken dance out of Arrested Development or something like that. The amount of expression he was doing, I was hoping we'd get some narrative about that. Darn.

0:23:33 Lydia: An Instagram video recorded by an observer captured the incident. The video depicts Dunn screaming at V1 within inches of his face for several seconds before winding his arm back and forcefully throwing a sub-style sandwich at V1.

0:23:52 Thomas: How was his form? Was it good? Didn't comment on that.

0:23:54 Matt: The Instagram screen capture too. It's just very funny that that's the best evidence they have.

0:23:58 Lydia: FBI gets sub -thrown at him down U Street.

0:24:01 Thomas: Yeah. Are they required to include that? Like is that would it be evidence tampering if they like didn't if they cropped out the thing yeah like probably not right why would they have to that's funny okay we

0:24:07 Matt: If they took out the caption. Yeah No, it's going into the record. It's the only thing they have and then there is another on the next page is a quick follow -up to finish up

0:24:17 Lydia: Dunn attempted to flee on foot but was apprehended. While being processed at Metropolitan Police Department's 3rd District, Dunn told MTP officer Gherkaranjot Tandi, I did it. I threw a sandwich. Confession. Wow. Yes. Amazing.

0:24:30 Matt: Signed his death warrant right there yep that's right yeah totally

0:24:36 Thomas: Need the serial music to go up at that I did I threw the sandwich dum dum dum and then then we can go into my analysis about how but the sandwich may have never even hit the officer after all it all depends on the anisha call or something I don't know uh I did it I threw a sandwich

0:24:57 Matt: Let's talk about what happened oh you can watch the rest of it actually before we talk about oh there's more a few more seconds

0:24:58 Lydia: Some more motherfuckers.

0:25:01 Thomas: Oh there's more okay so yeah that's you're right I should put it back to full speed before consuming the whole thing and I'm gonna go all the way back because I want to hear that guy again he had some things to say I want people to review this themselves and tell me that the sandwich it passes over the officer and the wrapper hits him nobody's talking about this I can see the sandwich hold on there are are more victims there are more I can see I actually finally tracked the actual sandwich I was looking on the ground thinking the sandwich was going to fall behind him on the ground but no what I didn't account for was the velocity the exit velocity

0:25:08 Lydia: Yes, please. Dear God.

0:25:08 Matt: Yes please

0:25:49 Lydia: Oh,

0:25:49 Thomas: Of the sandwich the exit velocity of that sandwich is a lot higher than I would have thought because it's like it has the actual bulk of the momentum because it is actually what what what received the kinetic energy of this brilliant man's hand this amazing sandwich throwers hand arm arm so it goes behind him he goes behind the officer and actually hits possibly that wall and then another guy I found it hold on a sec let's see yeah and that guy also looks to be an officer the really tall one in the back if you're looking I think gosh it's so fast all right we'll way. This fucking guy,

0:26:13 Lydia: Oh, wow. Victim two.

0:26:15 Matt: A second victim

0:26:25 Lydia: What

0:26:30 Matt: Very

0:26:37 Lydia: Are they saying?

0:26:39 Clip: He cooked them! He cooked em!

0:26:42 Matt: Quickly

0:26:44 Lydia: Sean

0:26:51 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:26:52 Thomas: This gentleman, I hope it's okay. I say fit gentlemen. I'm not saying like ripped, but like, yeah, Sean Dunn is, is athletic. He's got, he's filling those little shorts.

0:26:58 Lydia: Dunn. Yeah. Athletic. Oh Oh, OK. Yeah.

0:27:04 Thomas: Yeah. Like he's, he takes off running in decent form. I don't even think he's going a hundred percent to be honest with you. I think he is worried that if he runs a hundred percent, Then he's committing a real crime. He sort of jogs off. Well, first off, he almost gets hit by a car.

0:27:06 Lydia: Yeah, he's got the glutes. Mm hmm. Oh, geez.

0:27:21 Thomas: There's a car that comes right behind him as he throws it. Like it was almost like, if that had been his getaway vehicle. Imagine. The sandwich heist of a century. Nay, of two centuries. That would have been incredible. But then he just sort of, he's trotting. He's not really, he is running like he's going to run a longer race. Like maybe he's in it for the long haul. That could be pacing. It could be that because he's not sprinting. So I think that's also important evidence that we should consider. Okay. Is there anything else I need to take in from this? I think I've gotten all the facts.

0:27:43 Clip: It's fucking done!

0:27:53 Lydia: Oh, he is pacing himself. Mm hmm, mm

0:28:03 Matt: That's the crime we have now seen

0:28:08 Thomas: Do we know the charges yet?

0:28:10 Matt: The basis for these charges we should talk about how this all went down yes so that's on the complaint that I sent you there that we were just looking at that was a statement of facts attached hash the complaint in the first page.

0:28:14 Thomas: Oh, okay. So I guess I didn't remember then. And I wanted to ask, was he also charged for the running part?

0:28:21 Matt: No. Right.

0:28:21 Thomas: Interesting. That's almost, if anything, the part that I would have thought would be like, Like sometimes they get like, you know, when cops are doing a dirty cop bullshit, it's usually like, well, I'm arresting you for resisting and that's it. That's the only charge. And it's like, Well, resisting what? Like, it sounds like there was no, nothing happened.

0:28:39 Lydia: Well, what's cited here in the complaint, it's 18 U .S .C. one eleven a one assaulting, resisting or impeding.

0:28:48 Thomas: A1 for the sauce that goes on the sandwich.

0:28:48 Lydia: Yeah, A1, saucy, assaulting, resisting, or impeding certain officers and employees of the United States. So maybe it's like kind of encapsulated in that. Okay.

0:28:54 Thomas: Okay. Resisting maybe.

0:28:57 Matt: They're going with forcibly assaults. That's just to, you know, that's what they're going to be talking about.

0:29:01 Thomas: Well, so the resist part isn't a key part of it.

0:29:03 Matt: Yeah. I think that might come up at the trial, but we'll talk about 18 U .S .C. 111 another time, because I have a lot of concerns about this as a statute. But let's talk about what happened that night. He's taken in, he's processed, he'S released. You know, the complaint that I just sent you there with that statement of facts, they say they're gonna be charging him with 111 and they leave it at that. Fine. That'S all pretty normal. And then the White House posts one of the most fascistic things I've ever seen. Especially when you now know the context. Let's pull up the next video I sent you here. When they went back to rearrest Sean Don, you will not believe what you're about to see.

0:29:33 Thomas: Oh, I forgot about this. This is incredible.

0:29:36 Matt: It's really bad.

0:29:37 Thomas: Holy shit.

0:29:38 Matt: We're linking to all this. You can all play along at home.

0:29:39 Thomas: Yeah. I'm glad. I'm glad we're covering this oh my god oh I thought I didn't you know the platforms need to make up their fucking minds if they're all going to be on half of them are unmuted by default half of em are muted I hit play I think it's going to mean it blows my ears out then I hit play thing it'll play and it's muted god damn it okay here we go oh that still blew our ears out oh that's their stupid oh my God that's them doing their Christopher Nolan fucking fucking womp sound effects like it's inception or whatever I I'm it was it was a lot at once so we got we got it yeah we've got like several different cuts somebody put some editing into this

0:30:00 Matt: Mm -hmm. Soundtrack. Yep. Yep. And you have to describe what you are seeing. It is obscene.

0:30:07 Lydia: They, oh my God, that's insane.

0:30:25 Thomas: They put a location west end dc 11 09 p .m and I like it too because they pair this action sounds with some people with fbi on their back standing there in jeans in hats it's like wow that's that's It's a total action movie right there. Okay, so now U .S. Marshals. Oh, my God. You've got to be fucking kidding me with this. This is actually crazy.

0:30:47 Lydia: This is crazy

0:30:51 Matt: Remember he had been released a few days before and they come back for him with this crew

0:30:54 Lydia: Just to get the content. Like that's why they did this.

0:30:56 Matt: Yep he had not violated the conditions of his release they had no reason to come back he was going to come to court

0:31:02 Thomas: Wow. And so the police, it says police, U .s. Marshales, people in tactical gear in a hallway, 1130, 13 p .m. They've got guns drawn. This is a farce. Why would you?

0:31:15 Lydia: Unbelievable.

0:31:16 Thomas: The idea that anyone would take part in this. You know I'd like to think as much as I'm anti -police and everything I'd like to think there's still some people with dignity but apparently not nobody in this shot it's

0:31:29 Lydia: This Is like the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in my life

0:31:32 Matt: Just imagine like just like come on boys you've all seen that video let's go get this guy I mean come

0:31:38 Thomas: Silly

0:31:38 Lydia: Like like he's a dangerous terrorist what in the world are you

0:31:39 Matt: On yeah yeah

0:31:44 Thomas: I don't think they think he's dangerous per se I think I think it's like if I'm trying to get into the fascist mindset of basically run -of -the -mill conservatism you shouldn't be allowed to at all question or threaten or do anything against law enforcement ever and if you do they want the harshest possible consequences so it's not so much that they're like trying to make like this guy's dangerous they're trying to scare us and say you this will happen to you and it's this let like that's how eager they are to punish you for this and that there's no and that's and it'S also trying to show like the numbers is like we this is the amount the resources and the manpower that will go after anyone who questions us or challenges us in any way.

0:32:10 Lydia: Doing yeah yeah

0:32:32 Matt: Then we'll put out a jerry bruckheimer trailer to show your

0:32:36 Lydia: I just feel like it's it's so pathetic because if anyone knew who this guy was that they were taking away I would be like wow you guys like are really insecure and you like don't feel confident being able to carry out your duties at all like like you look like freaking babies right now having to put on like bulletproof vests your helmets like yeah exactly they have tide pens in their holsters yeah it's just so stupid like they're gonna go like like knock down his door and

0:32:51 Matt: Arrest yeah yes Yes.

0:32:54 Thomas: Those are sandwich proof vests. They're loaded with napkins. There's also like a wet wipe holster that, yeah. Tide pens, yeah, that's good.

0:33:15 Thomas: Everyone's got the like typical napkin down their neck like thing, like all ready to arrest them. Oh God. It very much is yep yep

0:33:22 Lydia: Stuff oh my god yeah anyway this is just so pathetic like just like they are playing police or something. It's so stupid.

0:33:30 Thomas: Oh we still got a few seconds here okay so he's just standing there they they're walking him out they're cuffing him like again or something or they're showing it again why do they keep showing the time 11 21 are they trying to tell us like here's here's how quick yeah okay so it took him 12 minutes to get up the building arrest a guy in jeans and a collared shirt and put him in a car and that says the white house president donald j trump that is so fucking stupid

0:33:46 Lydia: We're really efficient. God, it's so dumb.

0:34:02 Matt: It's so fascist. Also, it's a message from the White House.

0:34:05 Lydia: If I were part of this, I mean, again, like you were saying, if there's anyone left that has any dignity at all, if you saw this, like I would quit. Like, I mean, a bunch of other things would have made me quit before. But this by itself, I'd be like, this is fucking dumb. I'm not going to be affiliated with this anymore. I don't want to work for this anymore, even if this was the only thing that existed in Trump 2.0. Just this video alone, I would be like, this is so stupid.

0:34:16 Thomas: I would hope yeah it is absolutely pathetic oh

0:34:33 Matt: On. I just sent you the Pam Bondi tweet, the ex -post from the next day after he was arrested, just so we can get the full picture here.

0:34:40 Lydia: We got him. Yeah. Pam Bondi posts, if you touch any law enforcement officer, we will come after you. I just learned that this defendant worked at the Department of Justice. No longer. Not only is he fired, he has been charged with a felony. This is an example of the deep state we've been up against for seven months as we work to refocus DOJ. You will not work in this administration while disrespecting our government and law enforcement.

0:35:07 Matt: So there you go.

0:35:08 Lydia: Okay, ma'am.

0:35:09 Matt: Loses his job. But I do have to argue there with Pam Bondi. He was not charged with felony. They filed felony charges. I think she really thought that was going to stick. It did not. 18 U .S .C. 111 has a felony option, depending on the force of the assault and depending how they want to charge it, it can carry up to eight years on the felony. It can carry to 20 if you actually injure somebody, which of course didn't. No, they're not even trying to say that happened here.

0:35:21 Thomas: Look how spicy the sandwich is if there's any fish in it it does carry an extra charge

0:35:34 Matt: The dry cleaning. Yeah. So the grand jury refused to indict. We don't have that because they didn't indict it on the 27th of August. Pretty embarrassing for DOJ. They decided then to just proceed by information, which they can do in minor federal misdemeanors.

0:35:35 Lydia: Without

0:35:47 Thomas: Okay what is what does that mean

0:35:49 Matt: That's when you just file the charges and then proceed. Yep.

0:35:52 Thomas: What you can just do that

0:35:52 Lydia: An indictment?

0:35:54 Matt: For crimes that are misdemeanors that carry less than a possibility of a year, they can just proceed by information.

0:36:00 Thomas: Okay you gotta explain that a little more so there's a requirement and I know it's always weird with dc but like when do you have to do a grand jury all the time or some of the time? Or what? How does that work?

0:36:10 Matt: It really depends on the jurisdiction. So there's a lot of different answers to that. But generally speaking, to get a felony charge, you have to go through a grand jury everywhere. To get a regular criminal complaint, just stand up for a misdemeanor. And what we were reading from was the complaint where they're just proceeding and they're saying, this is what we're going to charge them. We haven't decided how we're gonna charge them yet. They can bypass the grand jury indictment and just proceed directly to prosecution on information for anything that doesn't carry a year or more.

0:36:34 Thomas: To explain, the grand jury is the thing where you're grabbing some rando people. And it's not like a trial where there's two sides. It's just the one side, right? So the reason that they say you can indict a ham sandwich is it's just the state, right. They just get to say all their stuff and get to try to convince. And you're only trying to convince these citizens there's enough to charge someone, right, yeah.

0:36:57 Lydia: Enough there there.

0:36:58 Matt: And presumably they showed them this video that we just watched and said, hey, this guy assaulted a federal officer. Here's the assault charge. Please indict. And they didn't. That's what happened.

0:37:07 Lydia: Good for them.

0:37:08 Thomas: It's fantastic. It's amazing. There are as much heroes as the sandwich thrower himself.

0:37:13 Lydia: Oh, I thought you were going to say as the sandwich?

0:37:15 Matt: Sadly, the sandwich was not.

0:37:15 Thomas: The sandwich is just a tool, Lydia.

0:37:18 Lydia: I don't know. The sandwich gave its life.

0:37:18 Thomas: A sandwich in the hands of a revolutionary is one thing. A sandwich in the hand of a policeman could go the other way. You know, it's just a toolbox.

0:37:25 Matt: So yeah, they did go forward with the misdemeanor charge, and that is what this trial is going to be about.

0:37:32 Thomas: So you can just go for, you just say, well, we disagree. So you're saying as long as it's not, if it's a minor thing, they're able to say, like, like I imagine you don't have to get a grand jury for like a traffic infraction or something. So it's like, I imagine it's that sort of rule where it's Like, okay, this is a low enough thing that we're not going to bother in paneling a grand jury.

0:37:53 Matt: Probable cause, basically, that a magistrate will take a look and say, okay, that looks like enough to proceed.

0:37:57 Thomas: So that meant, though, the most they could get him for was got to be way less than they even thought. Right. Like initially, what were they hoping? Like what kind of time or whatever could he have been doing for the first thing they were trying to get?

0:38:10 Matt: The felony carries up to eight years and up to 20 years if there's injury, but that didn't happen. So now they're stuck with the misdemeanor that's not more than one year. And realistically, I don't think he was going to get time on this anyway, but who knows?

0:38:21 Thomas: Right.

0:38:21 Matt: I mean, I'm thinking with Massachusetts rules here.

0:38:22 Thomas: You know, this is his first sandwich.

0:38:24 Matt: That is the setup. There's a little bit more I want to talk about here with the characters and the things we're going to be seeing here. I'll give you some background on the people involved. There are only going to be two witnesses at trial. So obviously the defendant is not going to testify, although I think this is one case where maybe he could have.

0:38:38 Thomas: God, please tell me we got the sandwich artist. Please tell me you got the sandwiches. And how tightly did you pack that lettuce? Cucumbers of the of the sandwich. Oh, darn. Were there cucumbers in that? They're trying to get like what could be like harder shrapnel. I'm trying to think what's the most damaging, you know?

0:38:41 Matt: No, we did not get this answer. They are going to play the body cam footage at trial.

0:38:56 Matt: Well, the hot peppers, I mean, those get in your eyes. That's, you know, yeah.

0:38:57 Lydia: Yeah pepperoncini um

0:38:59 Thomas: Right. There's a rumor that there's extra hot peppers. Can you confirm that? No, I don't. Trying to testify to pattern and practice. Would you have packed, you know, that many peppers into a footlong?

0:39:08 Lydia: From

0:39:09 Matt: Dunn's voice will be heard at trial because they're going to play the body cam footage of him with his dramatic confession of I threw a sandwich that will come out. But the only two witnesses are going to be V1, aka CBP officer Larimore,

0:39:25 Thomas: We're going to hear from the asshole who got this in. Oh, I love it.

0:39:30 Matt: The best part of the trial.

0:39:31 Thomas: I hope he cries. I'll be breaks down crying. That's what I hope. Don't spoil it for me

0:39:33 Matt: When I saw the summary of this testimony, that was when I told you we've got to order this transcript because it is that good. We're going to have the same sandwich, the Dunn Memorial sandwich. Mr.

0:39:39 Thomas: And a sandwich that's what I told you get subway on the phone yeah the

0:39:46 Matt: Larimer is incredibly overqualified to be standing on the street of DC on a Saturday night. He should be doing other things. He is a division chief with a strategic planning analysis directorate, and he leads information enforcement systems, basically tracking tools that allow agents to see each other and communicate, managing basically major communications within CBP.

0:39:53 Lydia: Victim

0:40:08 Thomas: Point being they're just throwing everybody out

0:40:10 Matt: Yes. This man has never never been to D.C. before. He's never been to U Street before. He doesn't know what's going on. He's just walking out and patrolling.

0:40:11 Lydia: Interesting

0:40:16 Thomas: There that's great that's probably good

0:40:17 Lydia: Before his life was changed forever

0:40:19 Thomas: Yeah not anymore he's not oh

0:40:20 Matt: Right, right. Then the other witness will be D .K. police detective Dana Henry, who I'm sure has other things to do as well. And she's going to provide her perspective on the crime and the evidence at hand. So those are the only people we're going to hear from at the trial. There are going to be some interesting issues. The lawyers themselves, I will say, I just want to give you a quick preview of what's coming up. What's going going on here. But before we do that, I should actually play Janine Pirro's reaction when the grand jury failed to indict him. Forgot we have to get that in.

0:40:45 Matt: And she was U.S. attorney at the time, of course.

0:40:47 Thomas: Right I you know what's so funny is I was like oh yeah just the random tv hosts I'm not even joking like I thought we're just going to a clip of a fuck no this is a person yeah like no this

0:40:58 Lydia: Oh of her on fox news no no this is her in her official capacity

0:41:01 Matt: She had just been confirmed.

0:41:02 Clip: The federal takeover here in the district. We're hearing from the U.S. attorney for D.C., Jeanine Pirro, after a grand jury declined to indict former DOJ employee Sean Dunn for throwing a sandwich at federal officers earlier this month. While speaking on Fox News, Pirro put the blame on D.S., D.A., and D.F.A. There are a lot of people who sit on juries and they live in, you know, they livein Georgetown or in Northwest or in some of these better areas, and they don't see the reality of crime that is occurring. And my office has been instructed to move for the highest crime possible, consistent with the law, the statute, and the evidence. And in that one case, in that particular article, we were on point. But the grand jurors don't take it so seriously. And my job is to try to turn that around and to continue to give the support that my prosecutors need.

0:42:00 Clip: In that case, we took it as a misdemeanor, and we'll go forward with it. The fact that they're so used to crime, that crime is so normalized in D.C., that they don't even care about whether or not the law is violated, is the very essence of what my problem is in D。C.

0:41:56 Thomas: Is jesus christ

0:42:09 Lydia: Capacity so crazy what a crazy way to spin that geez

0:42:19 Thomas: Oh my god first off though matt can we just take a moment to try to cast our minds back into a normal time and imagine a federal u .s attorney not getting the indictment they want and then coming and like bad mouthing the grand jury has that ever happened look we know where we are but I really want Matt just give me context like this is an outrage, right? Like this is something that is completely unprofessional, completely like unacceptable in the legal profession previously, especially again, this is the government, the government's lawyer.

0:42:36 Matt: They're too used to crime. No, I've never heard of anything like this for a prosecutor, like actually blaming them.

0:42:54 Matt: Yeah, yeah. That's why I wanted to play it, because the standard reaction to a press conference or to the media in something like this, when the prosecutor's commenting on something like this would be, well, we have to respect the grand jury's decision and we'll leave it at that, right? We move on. Or maybe we try to get them on the misdemeanor, but we have to respect what they did. And I mean, obviously, this is essentially grand jury nullification, right? They saw it. They didn't think it was worth an eight -year felony, and they declined to indict, even though they saw the same video that you just did.

0:43:20 Thomas: Incredible.

0:43:21 Matt: Not because they love crime.

0:43:22 Thomas: It's just so disgusting. Like, you know, we're not super romantic about the institutions, but holy shit, it's better to have them than to have not them. We're going to forget what it used to be like to have real people doing real stuff in these positions. This is fake. This is not real.

0:43:38 Matt: That's a very good point, because we've got, you know, former Fox News and beauty queens now running these U.S. attorney's offices, apparently. So this is what we got.

0:43:45 Thomas: This is just ridiculous.

0:43:46 Lydia: Who was uh in that role under Biden

0:43:49 Matt: See, that's the point. You never heard of him because he just did his job, whoever it was. Maybe I should have said the man. Let's see. Yeah.

0:43:52 Thomas: Right. Yeah. Nelson Mandela. No, I'm just kidding.

0:43:58 Matt: His name was Matthew M. Graves, and I presume he was great because I never heard of him. Probably just did his job.

0:44:04 Thomas: There you go.

0:44:05 Matt: He also prosecuted quite a few of the January 6th cases, obviously, that ended up being dropped. So, I mean, he was pretty much in office for that whole thing. So I'm sure that was a lot of work. And then you get to watch, it'll be all undone.

0:44:16 Thomas: That's a bummer.

0:44:17 Matt: That is the reaction when they couldn't indict. They proceed on information.

0:44:29 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:44:29 Matt: Let's talk for a moment about the attorneys, and then we're pretty much done today. Full credit, we're going to be seeing these attorneys in the transcript. You'll be hearing their voices.

0:44:34 Lydia: Well you'll be hearing a version of their

0:44:36 Matt: That's right. That's correct. Yes. Yes. You'll never know the difference. The acting will be so good. Julia Gatto, Sabrina Shroff, and Nicholas Silverman opted to represent Dunn pro bono. They took on the case, which I appreciate.

0:44:37 Lydia: Voices you'll be hearing us. Good.

0:44:46 Thomas: More heroes. You just got to take me to lunch.

0:44:48 Matt: Yeah, that's right. Just buy me a sandwich. Gatto was a federal public defender in her 14 years. She's been around the system. Silverman is a white collar crime defender. And ShroFF represented, among other people, Billy McFarland from the Fyre Festival, if you remember that debacle.

0:45:04 Thomas: Oh my God. That is so funny. Place where there famously weren't enough sandwiches. Covers all sides of the sandwich spectrum.

0:45:12 Matt: And for their sins on the other side of the case. We have Michael DiLorenzo and John Perrin prosecuting. I'm sure that this was not their finest moment, especially because DiLörenzo was the deputy chief of national security and a 22 -year veteran of the D .C. district attorney's office. He prosecuted the mastermind of the Benghazi attack.

0:45:29 Thomas: Oh wow. Hillary Clinton.

0:45:29 Matt: He usually was only handling very serious transnational crime. Yeah, that's right. We got her. So just for his perspective on what this guy should be doing. And then Perrin, who's paired up with him on this, John Perrin has been practicing for eight years and joined during the Biden administration. So presumably this is not what he wanted to be doing either. I found his quote from Penn Law. He's a graduate from Penn. He graduated in 2017. This is his graduation quote, or excuse me, it's an interview quote. Quote, one of the more stimulating aspects of my summer internship was going to court and watching a variety of different proceedings. Sometimes in the classroom, I worry that I have a tendency to get detached from the practical reality of what the criminal justice system does. The importance of humanity in the whole process is something that will continue to stay with me long after my internship has ended.

0:46:13 Matt: No comment. We'll see how it goes. But this is going to be such an interesting trial because the defense is conceding immediately that he threw the sandwich. No question he threw this sandwich.

0:46:13 Lydia: Very

0:46:21 Thomas: Yeah, that is really interesting. Like I, part of me wonders, and we'll get into it, but part of me wonders like, I know sometimes it's like, well, then can't the judge just be like guilty? Because you can't even argue, you know, like a key fact of the thing is that. So I don't know if maybe we save more of that legal talk for the actual trial coverage, but it's It's like saying, I did it, but still, still, let's have a trial. I didn't even know you could do that.

0:46:46 Matt: Yeah, right. Sure, it happens. It happens. And usually in this kind of a case, the defense would be presenting the defendant to explain himself about whatever mitigating circumstances there were, but he's not going to do that here. They are just going to proceed with essentially jury nullification. They're going to say, yeah, he threw the sandwich, but what are we doing here, folks? That's pretty much going to be the trial and it's going to work, not to spoil anything, but that's where we're heading.

0:47:06 Thomas: That's amazing.

0:47:09 Matt: I also forgot to mention just before we conclude here that this offense occurred within the first week of National Sandwich Month. So so excellent timing.

0:47:18 Thomas: It's also in another part of the context that's so funny. I don't know if people can remember back to this time where Trump was trying to distract from the Epstein files. I know it's weird to think about now. Memory lane, you know, like, gosh, there's the dress that was the two different colors. And then also Trump was trying to distract from the Epstein -Fox, just like a perpetual story. I love that that story is the one thing in Trump adjusted terms and Trump adjusted America that has lasted like the news cycle. It's crazy. I know it's not the topic of this show, but that is a possible reason why something this absurd, you know, it's kind of overexplained, I guess, by the fascism. But but I do think that there's a real chance they wanted to make the stupid spectacle of the video and everything, knowing that it's kind of dumb, but it might distract from this even worse thing for them

0:47:37 Lydia: Man. Yeah, it's actually kind of stuck.

0:48:15 Thomas: Going on with the Epstein stuff.

0:48:17 Matt: The timing too, I just wanted to point out that this happens on the 10th, the sandwich incident. And then Trump ordered the DC National Guard in the next day on the 11th, declared an emergency and fully ordered them in. So I don't know. Yeah.

0:48:26 Lydia: Oh wow. That was the last straw for him, yeah.

0:48:28 Matt: Maybe a coincidence, maybe not.

0:48:30 Thomas: Well, we've set up a lot here, Matt. I'm so excited. For one, I'm excited to have you back on. GG.

0:48:35 Matt: Yeah, what a pleasure.

0:48:36 Thomas: It's good to see you. You'll have to, again, choose your, choose your gavel pronouns. Choose, choose your gavel and choose it wisely. And it's going to be exciting and fun to go through this, get back to doing readings, doing, doing some acting. Lydia and I, you know, can't wait.

0:48:50 Lydia: Before

0:48:51 Matt: I had so much fun with the Trump trial. That was really some of the best and most fun podcasting I think I've ever done.

0:48:57 Thomas: Going to be so much fun. Well, thanks. Thanks for listening, everybody. And again, please support not only our Sandwich budget, but our trial transcript budget over at patreon.com/gavelpod. And we'll try to make sure Matt, if you think of any bonus extras for this for this trial, let me know that we can do for patrons.

0:49:15 Matt: So I'm sure they'll come up with themselves. There's so much great stuff here. Extra toppings. That's right.

0:49:20 Lydia: We sign out, what's everyone's sandwich order?

0:49:22 Thomas: Yeah, I quit Subway. I can't do it anymore since I don't eat meat.

0:49:26 Matt: Same.

0:49:26 Thomas: There's not much else there.

0:49:27 Lydia: Sandwiches? Yeah, they're less exciting now as a vegetarian, for sure. Because we're all vegetarian too, yeah. That's funny. Yeah. Do you keep forgetting?

0:49:34 Thomas: Oh, are you meant for some reason? I thought you were like, well, I thought he said he was he like was and then wasn't or something. I'm sorry. I'm I misremembered. Oh, OK.

0:49:40 Matt: No, I eat fish, but pescatarian. Yeah.

0:49:43 Lydia: Pescatarian, yeah. That's like me.

0:49:44 Thomas: Subway, I used to enjoy with the meat, you know, but nowadays it's like they just that the way they try. To like actually pack in mass, like bulk. They can't just put in like, you know, newspaper clippings or anything like that. But it's just, the lettuce is just nothing. Like it's wet, wet, slightly crunchy, nothing. It's just I can't, I can't do Subway anymore. So I got, I got nothing for my order. Sorry, hon.

0:50:10 Thomas: What's, what's your order? My order is pass.

0:50:12 Lydia: That's okay. It depends on the place.

0:50:13 Thomas: Well, wait, are we throwing it or eating it?

0:50:15 Matt: Yeah.

0:50:15 Lydia: I'm eating it because I'm hungry. Yeah throwing it is different.

0:50:17 Thomas: Because if we're throwing it, I'm going to, Since I don't order, what do we order when we really want to pack the most punch is what I'm wondering.

0:50:25 Lydia: Meatball, yeah, because you want the weight, right? God, meatball subs,

0:50:27 Thomas: Meatball sub and a mess.

0:50:30 Lydia: That used to be like my favorite thing. Yeah and it's messy. That is so true. So true. The sauce gets everywhere.

0:50:34 Thomas: And then you look for the officer with the cleanest white shirt.

0:50:36 Lydia: Perfect.

0:50:37 Matt: You want a splash, though. Tuna salad. That's going to make a big mess, and it's going to smell bad. Yeah. Yeah. So you've got to contend. Mm. Sure. Yeah. I think that's better. Gun to my head, that's murder, I guess, is either tuna salad. They do have this veggie patty thing they put in that's like meatish, but whatever.

0:50:40 Lydia: Ooh, and stink it up. Yeah. Egg salad, too. Dang.

0:50:41 Thomas: Interesting. Oh my God. Now we're doing chemical warfare.

0:50:56 Matt: I'm with you though. Subway is just, I think it's actually in decline right now. They're not, they're not doing well.

0:51:00 Thomas: And you know, they could have, if they weren't cowards, if every corporation weren't coward, they couldn't have leaned into this.

0:51:06 Lydia: Oh, yeah. It would have distanced them from Jared. Like, they really could have, like, stepped into this as their new marketing.

0:51:07 Matt: They already had a pedophile representing them in public, right? Exactly. Yeah.

0:51:07 Thomas: Absolutely. Yeah, I know, man.

0:51:14 Matt: People like Sean Dunn a lot more than they like Jared.

0:51:16 Thomas: I know. But you know what? Corporations like fascism a lot more than they like heroes. So there we go.

0:51:20 Matt: That's true. That is true. All right. Adios Caballeros.

0:51:25 Thomas: I guess this whole time I was envisioning like a nice open face sandwich into an open face. Well, now it's just a tool song.