Lively v. Baldoni 51 - The Last Straw... OR IS IT

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavalin, Gavalinos, Gavelheads. I feel like Gavelheads is just more, yeah, it's just, and it's non-gendered, you know, yeah. It's more inclusive. We're the, look, the controversy over Gavalistas and Gavalinas is hitting us hard. Um, I don't think that's why I got sick, but it's didn't help.

0:00:30 Lydia: Gavelheads is, yeah, the whole group probably, inclusive of gavelinos and gavelistas. Yeah. Yeah, it's not not part of the reason. I think that's fine.

0:00:48 Thomas: Help. So my voice is tired. I'm battered over this big controversy. So we're just going to say gavel heads for today. Gavel and gavelheads. I am Thomas. That over there is Lydia. How are you

0:00:58 Lydia: Hello, I am doing well. We are working through this monster of a complaint as we're getting ready to record today. I was like, okay, where the heck did we leave off? And searching through it and it's like pulling apart all these things where I'm sure they've talked about some of this stuff before they're likely to talk about it again. So doing our best to figure out exactly where we're picking this up.

0:01:00 Thomas: Doing? Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. It's not like a TV show where we can be like, oh, here's the part we haven't seen. It is like if a whole TV show was previously on and then we are like, I don't know which previously on we already previously on because we've seen it all. Also want to note to any listeners who might have joined up because of the sandwich trial that we're doing concurrently. We're like, we have like a real docket. You know, I never think about that. Like each judge has like 50 frigging cases, you know, we're usually just focused on one and we're like it's like all consuming. You think like, man, Judge Lyman, for example, he probably has a million cases at once. We do need law clerks. That would be cool. That'd be really nice. But anyway, yeah. But But anyway, all that is to say, we are working on The Sandwich Trial. Should have the first episode of that out. I don't know. What would you say? Within a week, that will be out.

0:01:22 Lydia: Yeah yes yeah yeah I don't know I think there's gonna be some good stuff in this iteration there always is honestly oh yeah oh hey anyone listening if you're interested yeah yeah I think probably in next week or so yep and who knows things happening in the sandwich trial

0:02:16 Thomas: And obviously, you'll be able to see what the... If you're somebody who's like, I'm only here for the sandwiches versus somebody who is like, the Blake Lively's, at least the titles, you will be able to see. But you should just listen to all of it because, you know, it's good.

0:02:29 Lydia: Might be you know important for what's happening in The Blake Lively Trial you know well legal

0:02:32 Thomas: Yeah, there's overlap like the Marvel movies or something.

0:02:36 Lydia: Concepts we're going to be talking about things it's going to help our broaden our horizons

0:02:37 Thomas: All of a sudden, there is a sandwich in the Blake Lively thing. It's like I knew it. It's one universe. That being said we're gonna get right back on this complaint and see how far we get so support the show patreon.com/seriouspod gavelistas and gavelinas and gaver and gaivel heads get the bonuses oh yeah the bonus with dale was a ton of fun all right after this we'll get to it like you said we were trying to track down where we are I just have to in the narrative I don't know if we did this before but if we did then I must have been focused on something else because I I don'T

0:02:53 Lydia: Gavel heads yes yep yeah we did bonus with dale last month or you ranted about it and you forgot that you've ranted it I think you might have I don't know it feels familiar to me but it could

0:03:20 Thomas: Think so did I I think I would remember that no way I think I would remember I don't know. So the end of paragraph 155, they say, having been forced, and this is about the

0:03:25 Lydia: Be like my brain is combining things yes let the record reflect yeah well maybe yeah maybe I'm

0:03:31 Thomas: PGA credit thing. So we're not going back because we did cover that. We all agree. I think we've covered all there is to cover. Yeah. But I just, I guess I missed this sentence because it's so freaking funny. It's so indicative of how stupid these people are. Having been forced in the face of extortionate threats to concede to lively's every demand to thus far, wait, whatever, they believed it would be dishonest, unethical and unjust to producers who rightfully earned the Mark to falsely represent to the PGA that Lively had fulfilled the requisite producing responsibilities. Okay. We're not going to rehash that even though he's lying and obviously whatever. This sentence though, asking that they lie on her behalf was the final straw, dot, dot dot, or so they thought. What does that mean?

0:04:14 Lydia: Mixing it up with a dramatic thing that was similar to that but like this makes no sense Like, it's created dramatically, but then also, but what?

0:04:16 Thomas: What doesthat mean? It's yeah, exactly. I think you're right. Cause it's the, the final draw is you're, you say that you're that's up to you you you I got good news for you idiots you get to decide what the final straw is so weird to be like and that was the last straw or so I thought I guess they had more straws I didn't know about so good or so they thought oh my god so okay I'm gonna do a good job of not getting

0:04:37 Lydia: Or so I thought. Ridiculous. I'm proud of you.

0:04:50 Thomas: Back into that stuff but I just had to read that because it was so funny god that there's no way I

0:04:53 Lydia: Yeah. So we're going to be picking up the lead up to the premiere is where we're at.

0:04:54 Thomas: I saw that before. It was so freaking funny. What was the promise? Was that real? Yeah. So I'm just

0:05:00 Lydia: And man, I'm trying to think. We're goingto have to pick and choose how we go about this. Maybe we start in the narrative and then we go back to the timeline and kind of fill in the blanks if we need to. All right. All right. So we're on paragraph 158, if you're following along in the amended complaint. As the premiere of the film approached, Lively made good on her promise and instructed Sony that she and the cast would not participate in any marketing or promotion of the film alongside Baldoni, in spite of Baldoni and Wafer's acquiescence to all her demands. I don't know.

0:05:31 Thomas: Pointing out that that's fake. I don't know. When did she, did she promise that? What did she promise? Do we have evidence of that? Instructed Sony and the cast that she would not, what is her promise? Are they just saying she's still serious about being mad at them? I don't know what made good on their promise means. That's okay. Right. But that doesn't necessarily mean you're not doing the premiere. Now, what I also want to know, and we'll see if they tell us,

0:05:31 Lydia: Was it that any goodwill left? But that's not necessarily, yeah, weird.

0:05:51 Lydia: Right. And then independently, each of the cast members. Yeah, yeah. She made certain that Baldoni was removed from all artwork for the film, posters included, and stripped him of his A Film by Credit. No, and we've talked about that already on previous episodes.

0:05:53 Thomas: Did she really instruct Sony that her and the cast would not participate? Or did she say she's not participating and then the cast also said? I don't know. That's what I'm curious about. We'll see if they have any evidence of that. No. Didn't happen. It's just lies. Cool. They're just lying.

0:06:17 Lydia: Lively and Reynolds also unfollowed him on social media, as did the author of the book, someone with whom Baldoni had maintained a five-year personal relationship and for whom Baldoni created this opportunity. I find that so...

0:06:30 Thomas: We've read that before.

0:06:33 Lydia: That created this opportunity, have we?

0:06:34 Thomas: Yeah, we have. Yeah.

0:06:35 Lydia: Okay, well, I'm just gonna say again, for the record, that is so, like, grossly, like this weird paternalistic thing, like Colleen Hoover owes Baldoni, blech.

0:06:40 Thomas: Yeah, it's disgusting. Yeah. Yeah. She wrote the book and created this entire universe. And then he's like, he created this opportunity for her. Yeah. It's also just neither here nor there. This is the slights against the

0:06:46 Lydia: And she also explicitly said that she and her friend were talking about turning this into a movie independently anyway, and how best to go about doing that. So like she very well could have created the opportunity herself if he's talking about the film. Right. Yeah. Yeah,

0:07:09 Thomas: Narcissist. What does that actually prove? Just again, taking it for granted. Pretend we're the judge who's just taking everything that he says is true to evaluate it. Oh, so Colleen Hoover is a bit of a B word. What does that have to do with this lawsuit? It has nothing to do with anything. And it's stupid and fake, but I'm just saying. Yeah. She's not, but she's not a defendant. So there's, there's nothing. Oh man. What a misunderstanding. What

0:07:23 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah yeah. What's the tort there? Yeah. And she's not a defendant. Yeah exactly. The other cast members also unfollowed Baldoni, creating the false impression that Baldoni had done something wrong yeah that's what a remarkable thing to claim here on information and belief

0:07:43 Thomas: A comedy of errors. Yeah? Oh, come on. This is psychotic. This actually, I definitely

0:07:46 Lydia: Lively induced the other cast members to shun Baldoni in an early attempt to give fans the impression that baldoni had committed an egregious sin something so egregious that no one wanted to even take photos with him or have him around Lively was leaving what she had earlier referred to as crumbs a social media strategy she had learned from a close celebrity friend To give fans just enough to allow them to come to their own conclusions, thereby launching an army of detectives that, on information and belief, Lively hoped would turn against Baldoni. Yeah, it really, really is. Yeah. And, you know, obviously they're talking about Taylor Swift there because, yeah, exactly. Because you've been given just enough. So you've Been able to figure it out over the years.

0:08:21 Thomas: Know we haven't read this because that's narcissistic delusion. Yeah, of course. Even even I know that. Yeah. It wasn't done with the requisite paperwork and notice, period. Notice

0:08:36 Lydia: The unfollowing of Baldoni by cast members and even the author of the book, who he had a longstanding relationship with, we know, you told us in the previous paragraph, was done without warning or any communication from them. Yeah, you probably don't do like a lot of unfollowing yourself, but I'm pretty sure like when you unfollow somebody, the point is that you don't really want to, yeah, you're kind of done interacting with them.

0:08:52 Thomas: And comment, period, I don't do a lot of following. Yeah, the point is you don't want to talk to them. Oh man, the only thing I could see is if some, like, if this really were what he's saying, again, there's just no way, we don't have to keep probably going back and forth on it, but But, like, there's no way that this is a thing that Blake Lively made people do. They had their reactions or whatever. And if it was, you don't think they're, okay, let's go into your narcissistic universe, Justin Baldoni. Let's say that it's all Blake. She's poisoned him all against you. Isn't it weird? She's so good at poisoning the whole world. Every single independent entity involved in this conflict, she's got, wow. She is truly like the Voldemort of, she just, what bad guy am I thinking of? We can just talk. No that's in the books right you can kind of like affect people's minds or something oh yeah sure there you go jedi she's truly jedi mind tricked everybody and amazing you don't think there's a single person who would have sent and that's why I started saying this I could imagine the unfollow where it's like hey man I I I want you to know I'm kind of on your side but like

0:09:07 Lydia: So yeah yep except for the ones that you've paid oh like darth vader I'm sorry yeah yeah yeah I would think so I think especially if these relationships are something

0:10:09 Thomas: It's getting blake's getting pretty crazy about this I'm an unfollow but like know that I have have your back you don't think you would get one let alone like 10 of those if it were really what he's saying I I feel like we would see a lot of that yeah well keeping in mind and I know we're

0:10:25 Lydia: That he feels like have been really close especially like he keeps touting this Colleen Hoover relationship if they are hearing if under his worldview they are sharing hearing this explanation from Blake and like these terrible terrible things that he's done that he claims he has not done and if those relationships were strong those people would reach out to you and be like hey I'm hearing some stuff that I'm not okay with can we talk right right exactly yeah yeah what happened what did you do yeah yeah yeah

0:10:52 Thomas: Rehashing a little bit he got to break the story to Colleen Hoover there's no one else to blame for this but you that is what's so funny is the more he says and Colleen Hoover we had such a good relationship we were best friends we were whatever look it's just so funny that he's so narcissistic He doesn't understand that that's worse for him. There's no, it does nothing for you legally. What's, none of this does anything for you legally, but we're not even in the realm of doing anything for YouLegally. At least if you're just generally talking shit on Blake, then like, okay, fine. That's at least in the neighborhood of something, but you're actually doing the opposite. If I were to tell you, hey, someone unfollowed me. It's a person I barely know. You'd be like, oh, okay. If I'm like, it's my mom. You'd be like, holy shit. What did, what happened that was so bad that your mom unfollowed you? Like the more you make it into like, we were so close. It's very Trumpian. Like that's all Trump does. He just sees things as he's always right. And so he starts going off on like, wow. Yeah. They're not very nice to Trump. I'm surprised he's not speaking in third person here. They've got Baldoni derangement syndrome. BDS, they've got BDS, Baldoni derangement syndrome. And they, I can't believe they're not very good to Baldoni, they're not very good to Baldoni it's ridiculous he we already know from his own shit that he got to break the news to colleen and they had a close relationship and he's gonna try to put this on blake and make a big deal about how close they were which is all entirely the opposite of good argument for him oh god showered on

0:11:46 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. He continues that sentence in stark contrast to the warm praise and appreciation cast members had until that point always showered on him. Yeah. It's

0:12:32 Thomas: Him why would you use that as your ad as your verb like that's yeah like it's

0:12:37 Lydia: Really gross. Well, I don't know. None of these paragraphs are legal at all. So yeah. Well and I

0:12:38 Thomas: Like they who is writing this I would would pay to know who's writing this like I can't decide because it's stupid enough and feels personal enough that I feel like a lot of it could have come from Baldoni Heath maybe but it's also like I doubt it because it is a lot legal work that I would imagine lawyers are doing yeah but it's just a lot like people don't these celebrities don't I don't know I feel like this almost has to come from him and it's funny that he would drop into that language because I think he's stupid enough where he's trying to think like oh what words have like a negative connotation because I'm talking shit about these people but then he forgets that he's applying that to himself before this so he's like they'd always showered warm praise on him that's like so wait were you a little boy that they were like I'm trying to like it was your birthday and they were keeping praise on you and showering it on you it doesn't make sense. Yeah. Jack off motion to end all jack off motion. Yeah, and and in truth, what it really is,

0:13:30 Lydia: Think the other element of that too is like if I was one of the people that had complimented him on occasion and you know granted this is not for them but like if I if I was one of those people and I read this here I would be like what the fuck like showered praise I said hey today went really smooth and you're calling that like showering you with praise yeah or or like something

0:13:55 Thomas: Is this guy sucked. And I tried to say one nice thing because he's fucking blowing it all the time. That's honestly what it's going to be. Well, this is yeah, this is really disgusting stuff.

0:14:03 Lydia: More complicated which we're about to get into and I'm excited to talk about this yeah for example

0:14:08 Thomas: Piece of shit. OK, as a human and as a person who's gone through a law thing, if he did not

0:14:09 Lydia: Isabella Ferrer cast as young lily exchanged grateful texts with Baldoni during and after her filming stint, which included a number of scenes involving intimacy. Yeah. Yep. Yep,

0:14:23 Thomas: Explicitly clear this with Isabella. I'm not saying there's anything like there's nothing like legally wrong with it, but it's just a dirtbag move. Like you are in something as contentious as this, dragging someone by name and sharing personal texts that they sent you without their explicit permission. I don't like as of right now in this timeline, I don'T know, no, maybe he did get permission. I imagine not, but if he didn't, that is such a dirtbag move. You are putting in a very public thing, personal messages between you and a, well, I don't know how old she is now. Was she a minor during this? Okay, but she's very young. Young 20s, first film, right? Was she that one? First major film? Sharing that as you're like, oh no, I'm actually a good guy because look at this child who praised me. Here's our personal messages. So gross. Absolute sociopath behavior I apparently sure yeah they hit enter, I don't know and then there's clearly

0:14:57 Lydia: Shit. No, no, no. I think she's been young, young 20s. Yeah, yeah. First major film. Yeah look at me weaponize a young woman's texts during her first feature film to me and let me use that to my benefit, to my end. Yeah. Should we read them? All right. Justin texts Isabella first, at least from what we can tell with how this thread is characterized. You did awesome today. So happy to be working with you. Isabella responds. Thank you so much. I'm so excited. Thank you for being a great director and being so wonderful to work with already. Let me know. And then there's a space randomly. I don't know why. Why would there be a space there? Oh, let me know whenever you need me for anything smiley face justin responds so kind something missing what would that be but why yeah is there is there an emoji it might be an well no because

0:15:57 Thomas: Something huh that is it an emoji why would they blank it out that is for sure something blanked out right yeah so that is really weird I think it is a screenshot maybe it was just a weird space

0:16:13 Lydia: Man and they they attach things in so many different ways to this too so it's like this is not a screenshot or it is a screenshot but it's been cut off from the top yeah yeah yeah

0:16:24 Thomas: If there was something there that means they blanked it out with blue and then in the next thing when she quoted it or loved it or whatever. And you know how when you hit the love thing, it repeats it for some text thing. And then they would have had to blank it out there in the same color as that, which is gray. So they would've had to put a lot of work to hide whatever this one particular thing is. I think maybe it's just a weird space. Yeah. It's either a weird space and therefore nothing, or it's the weirdest fucking thing. Yeah, there's something majorly, It's like it's like a fucking eggplant emoji, like it's something that bad. But I think it's probably a blank space. It's a big blank space, though.

0:16:43 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. I think if we're going to be charitable, we should say it's a weird space, but or it's diabolical. Yeah, or it's criminal. Yeah exactly. Yeah he says so kind blank space more to come you're gonna kill it. Isabella love reacted to that. It is it is it's like his thumb he didn't realize his thumb was like on the spacebar while he was texting. He like looked up and then look back down and kept typing yeah she messages back about two months later yeah so

0:17:11 Thomas: It's, like, it's, four, five characters. It's just, I don't know. It could be something, something weird. I don' t know. This is in July, yeah.

0:17:27 Lydia: This this first message was may 4th 2023 now we're at july 11th hey just got my film developed from when we were shooting so here's this sweet pic I also have to say thank you so so much for an incredible experience on my first film I still can't shake the feeling of it all because it truly was life-changing for me you are such a wonderful smart and sincere director and you you created such a comfortable safe space for me to feel like I could fully step into this role. I couldn't have asked for a more welcoming environment. It will stay with me for the rest of my life. See you soon, whether in the fall or later, and hope you're doing well. Smiley face, X. And then we have a picture that's attached, I guess. I don't know. Just them filming? Yeah.

0:18:01 Thomas: What is that supposed to be? What a random thing. Okay.

0:18:09 Lydia: Yeah. He responds the following day, Isabella, wow, what a kind message. You were such a joy

0:18:09 Thomas: It's not, like a good picture. I don't know what that, okay.

0:18:18 Lydia: And pleasure to work with. Your openness, your raw talent, your kindness, and your excitement made me fall in love with directing again I'm so excited for your career and for everyone to see you in this film you have a big career in front of you looking forward to seeing you again in september even if we don't need you to work come visit yeah yep right exactly yeah yeah she's like

0:18:33 Thomas: So, yeah, again, this is inexcusable unless you had explicit permission. I mean, it really is. But I would say at best, at best. And this would still be rough. I think maybe what he could have done is shared without naming the name, just the quote from that one, which is you're a wonderful, smart, sincere director. You created a comfortable, safe space like that would be like, OK, I get it. He's he's he'S trying to defend himself. He'S going for what he can. He feels like under existential attack. I would at least understand that without the name, you know, just like, for example, and then, you Know, people probably figure out anyway. So just be like, For example, you Now, a young actress who was involved, texted in this, I mean, that would be like Okay, still kind of shitty, but like, whatever, but sharing all of this, but with names not redacted, and with like, all this personal stuff without permission is just insanity. What a dirtbag.

0:19:23 Lydia: 23 at this time yeah yeah it also bothers me too because like it allows him to paint the you know

0:19:25 Thomas: It's such a like, and it's so quickly proves the opposite of what he's trying to prove. If it's like, here, I'm going to take advantage of this person who said a nice thing once by blasting it out to everybody. See, aren't I so great? And it's, like, I don't know, man, if you think this is a good idea, maybe you're not.

0:19:45 Lydia: Know, underlying motives of this, like her feelings, her thoughts and cast it however suits him. And people don't actually get to hear straight from Isabella what her experience is. I mean, we can, I guess maybe you can assume that everything that she's saying to him there is 100% truthful. But if you're a 23 year old actress, I don't think you're going to be going and like burning a lot of bridges. I don'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW UNLESS I HEAR FROM ISABELLA LIKE like directly what her experience was like on the set and getting praise doesn't necessarily indicate that that's truly how a person felt. I think there's a lot of business elements that can be happening here. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hm. Yep. Yeah, exactly. We don't know. We

0:20:21 Thomas: Yeah, as usual, he doesn't understand when people have incentive to say a nice thing to him. And I think it's telling that it's the youngest, newest, greenest person who he goes to, probably because that's the only person he has. I'm not saying she was, like. Of coerced into doing it or anything, but it's going to be like, she's just starting out in major movies. She doesn't know the rope so much. She hasn't had that much perspective. She doesn't have that much to compare it to the experience. Like, and she has the most ahead of her, you know, she needs to maintain relationships the most. Like yeah, she might have said nice stuff for the sake of saying nice stuff. Like if you're leaving a job where your boss sucked, but you know that that boss could be somebody who like, they still might be in charge of you someday, or there's still a ton of connections. You're not going to to be like, fuck this. You know, you're going to probably send a nice message. And maybe, by the way, maybe she did have a good experience. I don't know. Could have been. Yeah. Oh, wow. I would have

0:21:14 Lydia: Don't but Justin Baldoni has decided to take it upon himself to dictate what Isabella felt based off of those words. And yeah, she is officially like the youngest person in that cast by the way because uh young atlas was two years older than her so so some additional background they give us here following up with paragraph 160 tellingly farrah worked with baldoni when lively was not on the set it was not until farrah spent substantial time with lively during film promotions that farrah felt compelled to shun baldoni in repudiation of her warm words

0:21:28 Thomas: Thought he was older. Tellingly, it was not until she was around the person who was possibly a victim of me that she stopped liking me. Yeah, man. I dunno. I mean, again, it's not, this isn't proof of anything. If you were shitty one way or the other, Farrah probably was like, oh, I didn't experience this but this sounds so shitty and so many people are saying it was true and also it's not just blake we've already covered it's not just Blake it's other people wow that's enough to convince me like yeah that's you're not saying anything that changes anything other than you think blake is lying this isn't new and different this is just what would happen if blake were telling the truth it's very natural that if she's telling the truth and if you sucked that after this This new actress spent more time with other people who are like, no, man, that sucked. Like, yeah, naturally.

0:21:53 Lydia: Yeah right right right and and the other possibility is you know like like you mentioned And it's that wasn't my experience. My experience with him was was positive. But wow, that's terrible. I'm so sorry you went through that. I believe you. That's 100 percent what Baldoni during a TED talk would say you should do. Right. But the other option, too, and I guess there are multiple options, but here's another option, is that what she experienced was also sucky and maybe didn't necessarily realize it or or have that perspective.

0:22:49 Thomas: Mm hmm. Yeah. Or thought she had to put up with it or thought she didn't have recourse.

0:23:00 Lydia: Perspective. Exactly, exactly. You know, we talk a lot about how even though it's a Hollywood movie set, it's still a workplace, you still have those protections. I think that it is probably really, really blurry for people. You Know, it''s blurry for peopl when they're analyzing it after the fact. I'm sure it's blurry for ppl who are experiencing it as well, especially if you're a 23-year-old young woman. That was my experience in regular workplaces, like understanding what sexual harassment is, understanding like what's appropriate in a workplace and what isn't. And lines were blurred in my experience and I didn't necessarily think anything of it or I brushed it off or whatever. And I think when you have the opportunity to have conversations with older women that, yeah, and more experience and also experience on like really safe sets potentially to be like, no, this is not the normal and it's not okay that this is how it went. This should be your expectation moving forward. I think that can be really, really powerful and we don't know exactly what happened for Isabella to move the way that she did without hearing from Isabella and a story. It became clear that Lively was laying the groundwork

0:23:40 Thomas: People who have more context.

0:24:05 Lydia: To explain away her theft of the film and exile of Baldoni. Presumably, she was concerned that her shocking conduct would be frowned upon if it became widely known. Yeah, they didn't know where to put it. Baldoni had no intention of ever making this information public. In fact, as co-star of the film, both he and his studio, who co-financed the film and had spent millions of dollars, had every reason to want the film to succeed. That was like a Steve Sarowitz sentence. He was like, make sure you put that in there. I spent so much money. Any suggestion otherwise

0:24:14 Thomas: How is this even connected to what it was? It seems like they plopped this down somewhere. Yeah. Uh huh, first time hearing of this. Yeah.

0:24:37 Thomas: Well, I didn't know they had the money. How dare you criticize them?

0:24:44 Lydia: Is illogical. Okay. No, no. We're not saying that Baldoni was like intentionally bombing the film.

0:24:46 Thomas: What? I don't... Hold on. What the fuck is this even supposed to be arguing? Of ever making this information public. Co-founders of the film have every reason to want the film to succeed. Yeah, but that's... But any suggestion... What? Wanted the film. Wanted to fail. Yeah.

0:25:04 Lydia: He was like a betting man or something and he like bet against the film like we're not no one is saying that oh I see so any suggestion that I would have said something is illogical gotcha

0:25:06 Thomas: He bet again. I shorted the movie. I think maybe what he is jumping from is... I never was going to say anything. Thing. Here's how you know, because saying anything would hurt the film and I only wanted the film to succeed. But that clearly, yeah, yeah, which is stupid because he could have just waited a little bit and then said something like wait till after the box office is mainly settled yeah like that's this is terrible don't think so okay you seem to could do that yeah okay yeah yeah you expect that to

0:25:26 Lydia: Right or have unnamed sources and quotes yeah yeah baldoni promoted the film as originally intended did you did you gave lively full credit and praise fair enough yep and had done everything in his power at every painful turn of making this film with lively to ensure the film succeeded He wanted to move on. Lively, however, would not let it go. The dramatics throughout this narrative. I mean, it's the gift that keeps giving. Yeah. And then like you're going to turn to the next page.

0:26:02 Thomas: To be the end of a chapter of a Goosebumps book. Why is it not a coincidence? Is it because you're

0:26:07 Lydia: Baldoni later received word that during the premiere of his movie Deadpool and Wolverine, Reynolds approached Baldoni's agency, namely an executive at WME, and expressed his deep disdain for Baldoni, suggesting the agency was working with a, quote, sexual predator, a phrase that uncoincidentally later appeared in the press.

0:26:28 Lydia: And at a later date, demanded that the agent drop Baldoni.

0:26:31 Thomas: A sexual predator? Wow. Hey, you've been saying that for like a hundred fucking pages. We get it.

0:26:37 Lydia: His wielding of power and influence became undeniable. Baldoni and Wayfair grew increasingly fearful of what Lively and Reynolds were capable of as their actions seemed aimed at destroying Baldoni's career and personal life. Yeah, like, I mean, if you, yeah. Yeah, I feel like, like if you have a strong case, it does not take this many pages to lay out your case, you know? Right. Yeah. The same sentence. Yeah?

0:26:51 Thomas: Oh, we're so scared all the time. Increasingly scared. How much more room is there for you to be scared? If there's a legitimate threat to you, it doesn't take this many pages of nothing. You You know, you just be like, this was essentially a shakedown because they said, sure would be a shame if something happened to you. So you better give us some money. Otherwise, you know, like that'd be pretty obvious to point to. You could at least allege those words. He can't even allege words. He can only allege ideas of what might happen. Like, well, I knew that she could if she wanted to. But there's no there's never any real threat. Threat. There's never even any hint of a threat. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I don't know. I

0:27:41 Lydia: Yeah. I also have a really hard time believing that like Ryan Reynolds, strong businessman, is going to go up in what appears to be like an impulsive move at a premiere for his movie that's, you know, huge to go up and apropos of nothing, just be like, Justin Baldoni is a sexual predator. Yeah. Yeah.

0:28:02 Thomas: Mean, obviously he needs proof for this, but I could absolutely see, depending on the context, I could see for one, he's fucking pissed and I don't blame him. I could see like, if this were somehow you and I, or something, I could see speaking to his agent and being like, Hey, yeah, your guy fucking sucks. He's a sexual predator. Awesome. I mean, it might be not advisable. It where you're, even if you're speaking the truth in your mind, it might be that you're interfering

0:28:31 Lydia: Yeah. Well, but the thing is, is that it was a WME executive, right? It was Ari Emanuel is what we we find out.

0:28:34 Thomas: With, you know, there's like that tortious interference with people's business. Like there's something there. So I'd be a little worried about that, but I also could imagine being impulsive and just being like, Oh, Hey, it's the guy who represents the fucking sexual predator. Fuck this guy. Okay. All right. I don't know that, that, I think to me would be

0:28:52 Lydia: So it's not his agent. He's not saying, I don't know, I just find it. Yes, absolutely. I would 100% need proof. Yeah, perhaps. Yeah. Yeah it could be. Right. Yeah yeah that's fair.

0:29:01 Thomas: If it's somebody who has more of a connection with, it also could be, Hey heads up, you're You're representing someone who might be me too at any second because he sucks. So off the record, you might want to be careful. You might wantto prepare for that. But I have no idea. I'm just making this up. I have no idea. I'm not. I don't think this sounds impossible, but I do think it's something that you would want to prove. And so I guess we'll see.

0:29:27 Lydia: And I'm sure WME had people that were MeToo'd, you know, during 2016, 2017.

0:29:33 Thomas: They're like, call the. Oh, great. Sound the alarm. Yeah. He's like, great, I'll get our guy on it.

0:29:38 Lydia: This pivotal moment terrified Baldoni and ultimately caused him to seek help anywhere he could to protect his reputation, his partners, and his wife, children, and family from false accusations that could ruin their lives.

0:29:44 Thomas: Yeah, because they might get dropped by WME as well.

0:29:52 Lydia: Desperate, terrified, and in this position for the first time, he sought expert guidance and was advised to engage crisis PR to, in italics, be ready in case Reynolds and Lively decided to unleash their wrath on them.

0:30:05 Thomas: It's so stupid.

0:30:05 Lydia: In italics again, as is customary, a proposal was prepared for him with available measures and quotes of what each suggested measure would cost. This bolded italic proposal wrongfully obtained from the very public relations company that once represented Baldoni, with whom he had recently severed ties, Stephanie Jones Speaks, was later used by Lively to knowingly and falsely assert that Baldoni had agreed to the most aggressive option in the proposal. Lively falsely and ironically alleges Baldoni set out on a, quote, smear campaign to destroy Lively despite the thousands of documents she alleges to have that would prove otherwise.

0:30:42 Thomas: It's not ironic.

0:30:43 Lydia: Yeah, freaking Alanis Morissette over here. Notwithstanding, Lively, her team, and the Times worked in concert to cherry pick, deliberately misconstrue, splice, and alter private communications. Alter private communications, guys. To manufacture a self-serving and factually baseless narrative. Yep, yep, I agree.

0:31:03 Thomas: Now this is New York Times stuff. And so I think we're probably going to be able to skip a lot of this. We should go down to the timeline because the timeline we left off in July 26. So let's see what we missed there.

0:31:12 Lydia: Pivoting over there right yeah every time yeah you you guys don't know a lot of things I guess

0:31:14 Thomas: I think this is funny. Just a quick thing because I noted recently that it didn't make sense to be like, oh, the threat is Lively's going to not promote the film when she's already like mid-promotion of it. And it would be silly for her to stop. I think it's funny that they, they note that, but then they have to try to like hand wave it away. Given Lively's heavy promotion of the film, the likelihood of her boycotting seemed low and her leverage appeared to be weakening as the event neared. Or so they thought. Again, again, let, okay. However, yeah.

0:31:44 Lydia: Like you keep being surprised yeah what is this wayfarer own premiere by the way was that no

0:31:45 Thomas: Baldoni remained deeply anxious, fearing potential retaliation from Lively and Reynolds simply for attending his own premiere. It's funny. Oh, I assumed you knew. Oh, okay, so I shouldn't have skipped that. After extensive consultation on July 26th and frustration over Reynolds and Lively's ongoing threats, Baldoni and Heath informed Sony that Wayfarer will attend its own premiere.

0:32:07 Lydia: But they were at the same premiere oh okay I thought they meant like a separate premiere

0:32:08 Thomas: Oh, maybe it's saying like, um, we're going to attend our own premiere, like they're saying like, yeah, like you're not going to deny us. Yeah, I actually kind of thought that for a second too.

0:32:18 Lydia: Gotcha okay all right that makes way more sense

0:32:19 Thomas: Yeah, we were taking our premiere and going home.

0:32:22 Lydia: Yeah I was like well then you guys set yourself up in the basement like

0:32:23 Thomas: Yeah, that's what it seemed like. Yeah, yeah.

0:32:26 Lydia: Like, why are you complaining? Okay. Right. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, well, and the other

0:32:26 Thomas: Yeah, no. So it does. So that's their way of saying, and again, it's so funny. They constantly strike this balance where they're like, there's no way we could say no we would be killed and then they're like and then we said no it was fine but anyway we're still scared they constantly have been doing that so this is one of those again schrodinger's mobster Blake where it's like is she the most threatening mobster in the world or is it nothing but they're saying essentially what I said which is like well what leverage does she have and so I guess they stuck to their guns and we're like we will be tending our own premiere thank you very much I'm not sure if this matters apparently he forwarded Jen Abel video of Francis Ford Coppola kissing Megalopolis extras surfaces as crew members detail unprofessional behavior on set oh this is funny because his caption is "this is the shit I'm sure they want to do - unnamed sources, etc. just sharing, I know, I know" but it says video of francis ford coppola kissing extras so like what yeah yeah it's like a real that's so funny it's funny to pick one

0:33:22 Lydia: Thing, too, is, like, the way that he's saying it, I would think it's like, oh, Daily Mail or something like that. It's a variety. Like, it's a legitimate, you know, source of news for things in the entertainment industry, for sure. Okay, now, I will say, just looking ahead a little bit,

0:33:36 Thomas: That's like, I actually didn't really remember this. I don't know about this Francis Ford Coppola thing, but it says video. And it's like crew members detail unprofessional behavior on set. I mean, that seems straightforward. That seems like pretty well-sourced whatever. And they're like, ah, this is what they're going to do to me. Oh, wow. Okay. So that's an ongoing

0:33:54 Lydia: Because I was like, Oh, what happened here? He sued Variety for defamation, and they moved to dismiss. They lost their bid to dismiss. Interesting. If I had more time to look into this, I would. Yeah. I mean, that was February 2025. So I don't know if they're working through a settlement or something, but yeah. But I mean. There's the avenue. Yeah, Aziz Ansari. Yeah?

0:34:06 Thomas: Like libel suit and defamation. Next time, next season, gavel gavel. No, but the point is all that doesn't matter. The point is him saying like him offering this in his document of like, like, is this supposed to be proof that he's innocent if he's saying this is what they want to do to me? But again, if it was like the babe.com thing with, as he's, it was something like that was like, oh, anonymous person give, you know, if the source was terrible, if it was TMZ, oh that's a bad example, but if it was, because they're closer to the TMZ. But if it was something, you know, fucking Russia Today, if it was something like that, we're like, this is what they're going to do to me. But it's like a legit source with a video. It's it is. I'm not saying this. Yeah, I'm not saying this like proves anything but it is kind of weird and telling on yourself to look at something that says video surfaces and a bunch of crew members are giving their detailed accounts and being like they're gonna do that to me. Okay, I don't think they could do that to someone who was innocent, I'm just saying funny, okay, but last time there was interesting new Steph Jones stuff

0:34:43 Lydia: Like, yeah, like New York Post, Daily Mail, like, yeah. Hindustan Times or whatever that always shows up. Yeah so now I think we can skip through some of this stuff. This is the Steph Jones.

0:35:17 Lydia: Yeah, we read this one. Yeah, so this is just Jen Abel's, yeah, her resignation email happened the same day as well, July 26th.

0:35:21 Thomas: So I'm just making sure we did read this. Oh the resignation one. Okay. Yeah. We've gone through that that. I don't know what to tell you, dude. Like this is just, you reap what you sow. Like,

0:35:28 Lydia: Busy day in this world. All right, so then July 30th, according to the timeline, Sony and senior marketing executives inform Heath and Abel that Lively has demanded Baldoni conduct his junket interviews on a different day than hers, further ostracizing Baldoni. Abel pushes back, arguing that this would signal to the press that something was wrong. Ultimately, Abel is able to find a compromise, and they agree Baldoni would conduct his interview separately from the rest of the cast at a different hotel, but on the same day. And the following day, July 31st, to close out this month of the year of 2024, social media detectives, quote unquote, begin to notice Baldoni's absence from the promotional content being posted online.

0:36:09 Thomas: I don't know what, again, it's hard to get in the mindset of the narcissist who I think just thinks anyone being mean to him means proof that they're bad. But it's like, yeah, man, here's what happens when you're a piece of shit and people in the movie that you directed and were a star of don't want to do promo with you. Like that's so bad. And people are going to notice that.

0:36:29 Thomas: I don't know what to tell you. It also undermines the idea that Blake is launching a campaign against you because this is just proving that basically anyone would notice this. It's not anything happened behind the scenes. Yeah. Which you could argue like, oh, this was her plan and she's responsible for it, I guess. But I don't think you can argue that she that like this goes against the idea

0:36:39 Lydia: Yeah, that's a good point. Like, she doesn't have to necessarily, like, do anything. Yeah.

0:36:51 Thomas: That she's doing some covert campaign against you. I think if he were innocent, this wouldn't happen to him. I'll just be quite honest. Like, I think there's not really a universe in which an innocent person has, not just one person, but an entire cast and Sony kind of backing them. Like,I don't think this would happen. I think you'd be like, hey, what the fuck? No, we need to do promo together. And you'd put them to the test. Find out what was going on, make people defend it. And if this was all bullshit, it would fall apart. I mean, that would be crazy. But it's not bullshit. So what he's doing is he had to sit there and eat it because he knew he was wrong and then complain about it after the fact as some sort of conspiracy against him.

0:37:30 Lydia: Getting closer and closer to the premiere, guys.

0:37:30 Thomas: Oh, this, I mean, we've been through this, but this is, we're getting into some of the like, here's proof I'm innocent. It's, checks notes, the fucking publicists I pay to defend me in private texts saying the truth is our defense or whatever. Like, okay, don't care. I mean I will say, I will say that it's at least relevant given that we saw some texts that were like his his own PR people talking shit on him. I don't blame him for being like, here's where they were like, the truth is your defense. You've done nothing wrong. And there's over a year worth of facts. But like the fact is, we know that in reality, the New York Times and Blake's lawyers and everybody, like they had so many texts that I think they could look at two contradictory statements and know which one was the actual truth because they have enough other statements to know that like, okay, when Jen Abel put on her working for Justin Baldoni hat over here, she was like telling him what he needed to hear to make him feel better and when she was shooting the shit with Melissa Nathan she's probably revealing something more closer to her actual thoughts. Well, I think she actually likes Melissa Nathan. What do you mean? I think

0:37:40 Lydia: August 2nd. Right, here's where they liked me. Right, right. Yeah, in the same way, the way that Jennifer abel talked about melissa nathan you know there's the one that's probably closer to her actual thoughts with stephanie jones and then there's a version when she's talking about Melissa Nathan to the wafer team and trying to get melissa Nathan hired so do you think that the shit that she was

0:38:59 Thomas: She's lying to Stephanie yeah because she ended up with Melissa

0:38:59 Lydia: Talking about oh really okay I don't know. I mean, maybe. Yeah, yeah, okay. So weird.

0:39:02 Thomas: Nathan and not with Stephanie I think I think she was just kind of entertaining Steph Jones yeah I don't I don't think unless I'm misremembering well why would she go to work with someone and recommend she went out of her way to get Melissa Nathan with Justin Baldoni and stuff like Oh, this is making me say, I think, I think she just was always lying to Steph Jones. Yeah, she's just a liar. Okay, it looks like we have A lot of New York Times crap. I would make sure that it's stuff we haven't seen, except it's so fucking bad quality that I can't even read what it is. Jesus. Yeah, yeah. I think we've already talked

0:39:29 Lydia: It's so tiny, you like you zoom in and zoom in and zoom in and you can't see anything, and it's the whole like excluded versus included situation that we've talked about in previous episodes. I think we have too. I think because this was from the New York Times complaint.

0:39:42 Thomas: About all this. Yeah, okay. I'm not, I'm gonna, I'm going to resist. I'm like, I take the bait all

0:39:46 Lydia: We've been talking about this. Yep, yep. Yeah, jokingly.

0:39:52 Thomas: All right, we get to August 4th and it's more people noticing that he's not with them. Yeah, that's going to happen. Here we go. I haven't looked at this yet, but we've got just the heading. Abel and Nathan commiserate about the situation with Abel jokingly suggesting they plant negative stories about Lively. Okay, let's see. While Nathan understands Abel's comments are lighthearted, she responds seriously, advising that they wait to see how the next few days unfold and stay vigilant. Okay. Nathan also notes being aware of a story from Lively's camp intended to hurt Baldoni's reputation. Both agree to stay alert and avoid taking any hasty actions okay let's see what this that's how they characterize it let's say she's talking about wayfarer that's funny hmm that's certainly

0:40:28 Lydia: Melissa Nathan: you could have stayed at my apartment, stay next time. Jennifer Abel: haha, I appreciate that but I'm making them pay for a nice hotel and room service, I'm starving lol. Melissa Nathan: okay good, I think maybe yeah. Jennifer Abel: I'm having reckless thoughts of wanting to plant pieces this week of how horrible Blake is to work with, just to get ahead of it. She's putting us through hell. Melissa Nathan: same. And I already off the record spoke to the editor at Daily Mail because she's my friend. She's ready when we are. Jennifer Abel says: what did she think? Melissa Nathan: she's right, she's happy to do whatever. Jen Abel: I'm following your lead about this. Melissa Nathan: we need to see how the next two or three days go and keep our ears to the floor, and we hear everything. We are prepped and can do anything, but I don't want to rush. We already know about one story in the works. Let's just keep across it. What? Let's Just Keep Across It. You know that's what's good about having these relationships is that we can move really fast. And then Jen Abel says, yes, master. Melissa Nathan, ha, it's just a delicate line. We need to keep in mind that we know when to do it and when not to do it yeah I don't know that we can know for sure yeah yeah I mean I think the thread of of her

0:41:31 Thomas: Not as like innocent sounding as they tried to make it seem. So we already know about one story in the works. That's interesting because to hear, obviously, the the way they characterize that is, oh well, they they're saying they knew a story that uh Blake was, did. But like, is that right? I don't know if that's right. Like, if they're trying to say that was them knowing there's a story that Blake's planting against Baldoni. If I read that apropos of nothing, I want to be totally fair here. She's ready. She's happy to do whatever. And that's talking about the Daily Mail editor. Following your lead, we need to see how the next two or three days go and keep our ears to the floor. And we hear everything. Okay. We are prepped and can do anything, but I don't want to rush. We already know about one story in the works. Already know about ONE story in THE WORKS.

0:42:22 Lydia: Text there. It does make sense to think that that is a Lively camp story and like she's caught wind of it, kind of thing. It, well, it, yeah, I guess that would be unlikely unless it's the editor of the

0:42:27 Thomas: Maybe. Is it then, are we to read it as not a Daily Mail story? Like it's just unrelated? Because if it was Daily Mail and they're saying, I spoke to the editor of the Daily Mail and she's totally on our side, why would it be a bad story that's in the works? You know, like, hmm, hmm.

0:42:47 Lydia: Daily Mail giving her a heads up and being like, you know, she's on our side but, you know, they're they're also working on this piece, you know, because they're they're in it for the clicks.

0:42:56 Thomas: One story in the works.

0:42:56 Lydia: So, yeah, I don't know. Right.

0:42:58 Thomas: It also could just be one story. I don't think there's anything that says that's Blake Lively. Even from their own text evidence, the best you could say is someone could be working on a story as a result of all the obvious social media stuff going on. Like it just says we already know about one story in the works. That could be, we're going to wait. There's a story in the works happening. Maybe they'll reach out to us to comment. Maybe, you know, like that, that could be how she means that. I don't think there's any way we know that she thinks it's a

0:43:24 Lydia: Yeah. I mean, it could be her filling in information as they're preparing the lawsuit and stuff where she says, well, here's the context.

0:43:27 Thomas: Blake Lively planted story. That just seems invented to me. Well, I think they're just lying. Yeah. About the context. Yeah, because they needed to try. We know that they have to to try to find some way to justify their response, like their reaction. They have to justify it.

0:43:37 Lydia: Oh, you think they're just lying in the complaint? Yeah. Right. Right.

0:43:48 Thomas: It's critical that they justify what they did as reactive and not proactive. And some of this language sounds like not bad evidence for them. Like, oh, well, you know, we're ready. I'm reckless thoughts of wanting to plant a piece, but let's hold off. But I already off the record spoke to the editor because she's my friend. She's ready when we are. What was that conversation? What did you off the record say is that already because if she's already seeding just bad information in that like talking shit and influencing the editor of the Daily Mail against Blake that already might be enough you know I don't know I'm not sure they'd have to testify about what that is or

0:44:23 Lydia: Yeah, that's true. It's a good point.

0:44:26 Thomas: Deposition all that but we are prepped and can do anything but I don't want to rush. Okay, not bad evidence there but the part where it's we already know about one story in the works I don't think there's anything that means that that has to be what they're saying it is because that could also be you could read that as there's already a negative story about Blake in the works so we don't need to plant it like that's what it feels like to me that actually feels more natural she's saying I'm having reckless thoughts of wanting to plant pieces this week of how horrible Blake is to work with etc etc and she's saying patience I've talked to the editor she's happy to do whatever

0:44:55 Lydia: Yeah, I think that's a fair interpretation.

0:44:59 Thomas: I'm following your lead about this we need to see how the next two three days goes we already know about one story in the works I don't know I think the most basic thing yeah so it's like that's why we don't have to do anything right now I don't see that as in any way definitely being what they're saying it could be I'm not saying it's definitely not but like certainly from that text alone we have no idea I know it's pretty funny and I don't know that she's talking about

0:45:19 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. I think also that last text is pretty telling, too, where it's just a delicate line we need to keep in mind that we know when to do it and when not to do it. So that implies that there are times when they do do it. Yeah. Yeah. Specific to this. Yeah, public perception. And yeah, yeah, right.

0:45:35 Thomas: Like I think we're possibly people are casting the lawsuit onto that as being the thing but that That also might just be her talking in terms of what's best for PR. She might not be thinking, we got to be reactive because legally it's bad. I don't, maybe they weren't even thinking about that. Maybe it's just, we gotta know when to try to strike based on like relationships with the PR, yeah, with the media and like how that will go depending on when the, you know, like, who knows? I don' t know. All right.

0:46:09 Thomas: We are pausing there for this ep. Oh man, so much fun stuff in the next one. We're going to get into, I don't want to spoil it. I don't know the future. I don't know how I'm even saying this. What's going on? We're gonna get to nice pool which is fun we will carry on as we have been and we're we're working our way through this should be done in the year let's see 2173 should we get no we're getting through it we're almost done with this we're going to keep plugging along yeah that's why it is the teamwork that I shouldn't say that because it's been a long time so that it's going

0:46:31 Lydia: Yes. We are. We're making really good progress because we're a team. Yeah mm-hmm. And our future law clerks, you know.

0:46:43 Thomas: To make people think we're a bad team I mean it's taken us a long Time yeah it's true that's true

0:46:46 Lydia: Okay. I know. It's not the only thing that we do, though. So cut yourself some slack.

0:46:52 Thomas: We have we have got a big docket like I said big docket energy is what we have

0:46:55 Lydia: We do. BDE. Anyway, stay tuned for merch with that because I'm definitely making that now.

0:47:03 Thomas: All right while you work on that thanks for listening thanks for pledging patreon.com slash gavel pod now we're doing two trials we're gonna have plenty of bonus stuff got it I mean we'll have so much extra to work with I'm sure so make sure to always go to I get last two months we've had bonuses right yeah so we're going okay we're not you know we're Not all bad oh that's

0:47:14 Lydia: Yeah. We have. We have, mm-hmm. And patrons get stuff before normies get stuff.

0:47:24 Thomas: True the main benefit is patrons get stuff way early so that's the main but patreon.com slash gavel pod they're already listening to the next episodes and you're stuck here in the past so don't don't be stuck in the past all right we'll uh see you for gg53 I guess and that was

0:47:24 Lydia: Back to back to back. Yeah. Mm-hmm? No, I'm saying the Baldonis, Alanis Morissette.

0:48:06 Thomas: The last straw or so I thought I guess they had more straws I assume you mean the opposite of Lively Spencer's head since her son was also in that oh okay I thought you're calling me that gotcha well isn't that ironic It's ironic.

0:48:17 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah.