Lively v. Baldoni 50 - Maybe Sony Just Isn't That Into You, Man

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:01 Clip: All rise. Court is now in session. Court is reconvened. I may be seated. Maintain order. The federal rise to face the jury and harken to its verdicts.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavel in, gavel in. What, which one do you want to pick? You pick.

0:00:30 Lydia: Well, I saw someone say, Gavalista, and I was like, ooh, Gavalista, yeah, I kind of like that.

0:00:34 Thomas: Gavelista? Like kind of how I was saying gavel, gaveleamos. Oh, okay. I thought that was like a verb, like gavel.

0:00:37 Lydia: Like a fashionista? No, no, Gavilista.

0:00:42 Thomas: Ah, gaverlissimo.

0:00:45 Lydia: Hey, Gabilistas.

0:00:47 Thomas: Gaverlistas. Okay.

0:00:47 Lydia: Yeah, well, Gávalinos, like we're, you know.

0:00:49 Thomas: That's true. Gaverninos y gaverlistos. Yes. Stupid. Anyway, this is Gavel Gavel. You've already left. Okay. They're gone.

0:01:03 Lydia: In la biblioteca. Donde esta?

0:01:09 Thomas: Lydia, I'll just introduce the show to you. This is Gavel Gavel, the show that we're on now that it's only us remaining.

0:01:15 Lydia: Well that's good. Thank you.

0:01:16 Thomas: And what is this? It is episode 50. That's cool. Of this iteration of Gavel Gavel. This is yet another segment of the Wayfair v. Lively, and we've got some interesting stuff today. We're going to get, first off, my favorite thing, more of Baldoni or Heath, whatever, Wayfairy Party, somebody involved, likely Baldoni and Heath, not understanding when people are just saying stuff to them and taking stuff like painfully, earnestly, that's clearly not meant to be so.

0:01:34 Lydia: Dang. Yeah. Hmm.

0:01:46 Thomas: And then also we get some text messages that we have of heretofore never seen before they're very relevant to the jones abel dispute yeah so that's what's up in this episode but people I suppose could just listen to the episode rather than hear me say what's gonna be on the episode but this is also just to keep our heads straight about what's going on

0:01:56 Lydia: Interesting. Yeah, yeah. No, I think it is good. Like when when you're dealing with stuff that gets really complicated, I think it's really important to start it off with what we're going to be talking about, talk about the stuff and then finish it out with what we talked about, right? Like, as we're working through what amounts to be nearly 400 pages of material just from this particular piece of the saga

0:02:24 Thomas: It's the gavalees the way god I wonder how close we are to

0:02:35 Lydia: Oh god I I hope we're close

0:02:35 Thomas: Done I wonder I wonder how many blank pages like like in a book where it's like, oh, there's the index and then there's the yeah. Yeah. Like an atlas.

0:02:41 Lydia: Intentionally left blank yeah yeah please god oh

0:02:45 Thomas: Yeah, all right. Well, we should take our break and then get to it. So hey support the show get a bonus thing that's coming out soon at patreon .com slash gavel pod. That's where you get bonus stuff. That'S where you GET TO TALK TO US you get stuff so early way early the normies are way behind. Sorry normies don't don't listen plug your ears or just go to patreon .com slash Cavalpod. They're way behind and avoid the auto ads. All right, we'll take a break and then we'll get to it.

0:03:16 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:03:16 Thomas: Here's this Wayfarer Marketing. Wow, what is this? This is, we get a memo from Wayfarers Marketing. Now, what does this say? And who is it from? We don't know who wrote this.

0:03:25 Lydia: No it says hi here is a summary of what was shared during my bi -weekly with the digital and social team the creative team has been dealing with extensive revisions based on feedback from blake there are multiple pieces being finalized including character pieces and quote get tickets assets ryan's agency maximum effort is producing content some of which will rollout on his handle. There was shoot with three creators and the rest of the cast. Sony did not have much opportunity to be involved.

0:03:50 Thomas: All right. So it sounds like another huge celebrity is giving you a lot of value there on his own Instagram handle with all that stuff. And if Sony had a problem with it, it sounds Like they hired them, right? I mean, you have a business. They're not hostages. Sony is not hostage to maximum effort. Like none of this it's just them writing it into everything

0:04:10 Lydia: Also this Sony did not have much opportunities to be engaged. I think they want us to read that like they weren't allowed to be invovled, but it could be that they did not have much opportunity because they're busy with a billion other things. So based on their schedule, they did NOT have much oppurtunity to be involved. Yeah, I think it's an email

0:04:31 Thomas: They also don't give us who this is so they give us like a what is this an email I guess it's an email but it looks so it has like a but it has like logo like wayfair marketing or something right like what is that what's the blue thing what is oh no okay so this is the redaction next to the blue things it looked like some header I thought that was like a almost like a header for some business kind of whatever but I guess it's, what is that blue thing? So it's a blue circle, which is, oh, okay. You know what that is? That's the cutoff Gmail, like no profile picture, Gmail or something.

0:04:32 Lydia: Based on the dates. Yeah...yeah...oh, uh -huh.

0:04:58 Thomas: And then it's blocked out. So now we know, okay, so sorry, this was confusing. They didn't tell us any of this. This is from someone in quote unquote, Wayfair marketing, which who is that?

0:05:07 Lydia: I'm trying to look that up right now.

0:05:08 Thomas: And they are saying, here's what we share during my bi -weekly with the digital and social team. Team. But I also think this sounds more like his PR trying to get him into stuff. Because by the time you look at the bottom, so we get Sony did not have much opportunity to be involved, but then we get another bullet point. There's one that's just right. Oh yeah, there's a bullet point that's completely two.

0:05:29 Lydia: Two blank ones yeah they're under a campaign and media strategy

0:05:32 Thomas: Oh, you're right. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So I was just looking at the campaign one. So there's one blanked out there. There is one blank down on action items. Sure do wonder what that is. What would that be? Huh? Interesting. But there is one that says the digital social social team is preparing for a significant increase in content output starting one month before the release. Based on engagement and reach, things on their side are tracking towards a very successful release as compared to other similar titles. So things are going well, by the way, by their own admission. Then multiple creative teams are working on different launches. That sounds like there's a bunch of different teams on stuff, one of which is maximum effort, right? Like to your point, there's like a bunch. There's a lot of people trying to do marketing for this. There's like, a bunch, a little things here and there, which will all hit at once, including creative advertising, creative content. But the stuff at the bottom looks more like in this action items and followups, one of which is blanked out. Interesting.

0:06:25 Thomas: And it's also, you know, what's also interesting about that is all the other redaction has been black, but this, I feel like was done in whiteout almost to make it like not obvious that there's stuff missing here. Like you, if you're just scanning through it, you wouldn't even notice that's, it feels like it just, otherwise it would be really, if it was black, it'd be like, whoa, what are they hiding from us?

0:06:24 Lydia: Yeah develop a yep

0:06:44 Thomas: But this is like, you almost think like, oh, they do a bullet point and then didn't put anything. They tried to make it like as unobvious as possible. There are plans to find ways to integrate Justin more prominently into the campaign, including at the pop -up, they had planned to invite him to host influencer events for the soft launch in the 18th. So that sounds again, like Wayfair marketing being Justin's advocate here a little bit.

0:07:03 Lydia: Yeah I mean he's their boss's boss

0:07:05 Thomas: Sony did not have much opportunity. Oh, you know what? Okay. No, I think I've pieced this together. I think this is, well, okay. As a possibility. I don't know for sure, but you know how we've seen several emails of Justin's PR team trying to be like, Hey, can we get Justin? Can we just, Justin, dude, was she you doing content shoots? Can we get Justin involved in? Can we get just and Sony's like, Oh, we don't know. Oh, I don't know.

0:07:26 Thomas: You know, I Don't know and then this is bullet points from a meeting from Wayfair marketing. The note is there was a shoot with three creators and the rest of the cast Sony did not have much of an opportunity to be involved. So doesn't that sound like maybe they were like, hey, wait a minute. You were going to let us know, you know what they were doing or whatever and maybe a Sony person was like, oh, we weren't really we were really involved in it. You know, like it could very easily be that it could also just be they're not involved like whatever but this could also very easily be sony's blowing him off because this is his pr team trying to get him more involved in everything and for whatever reason whether it's blake sony or both maybe again sony I've said this before I'll say it again they might have been like fuck we don't want the guy who might get me too at any minute to be the face of the movie so sony might have been entirely in favor of this entirely in favour of let's have like I made the point I've been make it again you would way rather have blake be on the face of this thing. Anyone with money invested in this, anyone just as a bottom line dollars decision would way rather have her be the face of this things for so many reasons. And this very easily could just be them blowing them off. Oh yeah. We didn't, we weren't re we don't know what they shot. We weren't really involved. Yeah. We don't, you know, cause I could so easily imagine in this movie, someone there's a million versions I could imagine, but one of which would be, weren't you going to tell us when you knew about the shoot they were doing or,

0:08:35 Lydia: Yeah yeah yeah we haven't seen it

0:08:50 Thomas: You. And some Sony person person being like, oh yeah, we didn't, we didn't know. Yeah. I actually think it's something like that,

0:08:50 Lydia: Yeah we weren't really involved we didn't have much opportunity to be involved yeah

0:08:58 Thomas: You know, and it's really funny. And they're, they're underlying this as this big evidence that again, she's gone rogue. She's gone rogue.

0:09:06 Thomas: So in the timeline, we're in July 10th. We're going to keep going with the timeline. This is getting interesting. Now we get enter the Steph Jones dispute here.

0:09:15 Lydia: I feel like we can probably like push through this pretty quickly anything because we've covered this in depth

0:09:21 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. Let's, we should read this first paragraph of it maybe and see, because I actually don't think we got this anywhere else. Did we? I I don't remember this. Okay, it's been a minute. Read July 10th paragraph and tell me if we've gotten that before.

0:09:33 Lydia: Whilst dealing with the Baldoni's money yeah dealing with The Baldoni is mounting PR headaches Baldoni publicist Jennifer Abel was also dealing with a difficult working relationship with her employer Stephanie Jones founder of Jonesworks PR the tension between Jones and Abel reached a tipping point when Jones whose behavior had had become increasingly erratic and hostile, demanded Abel corroborate falsified accusations about a senior JonesWorks employee in an effort to drive him out. When Abel refused to go along with it, Jones responded with mockery, calling her a, quote, 12 -year -old drama queen.

0:09:35 Thomas: Fucking whilst. While. That doesn't make sense.

0:10:07 Lydia: As a result, on July 10, 2024, Abel notified Jones of her decision to depart from JonesWorkes and intention to start her own business. Abel offered a six -week transition period with an end date of August 23, 23rd 2024 and notified her colleagues.

0:10:20 Thomas: I love when in your own words it doesn't makes sense. So we're to believe that Steph Jones wanted Abel to fabricate a falsified accusation and then Jones mocked her when she wouldn't do it saying 12 -year -old drama queen. That's not, it doesn'T make any sense.

0:10:36 Lydia: No, no, it doesn't.

0:10:36 Thomas: That's NOT, you know, that doesn'T, that's a different, whatever that is is not about whatever you just said. I'm confident of that. That's not a response that makes any sense.

0:10:44 Lydia: And then we get, I think we went through this text between Steph and Jen Abel, and then we also get Jen Abels email to her team and Stephanie Jones.

0:10:55 Thomas: Yeah. So we've covered this, like you said, we've covered this extensively. Let's go and see if there's, we'll scan through to see if There's Anything Different, Any Contradictions. So a lot of stuff is kind of interspersed. Why don't you read this July 11th thing? I don't know what this is.

0:11:09 Lydia: In anticipation of an in -person interview with a national publication that requested to follow him for a quote day in the life piece, Baldoni reaches out to the post production house working on It Ends With Us to find a time for him to come in for a few minutes and do a mock coloring session.

0:11:23 Thomas: Mock Coloring Session.

0:11:24 Lydia: At the time, the coloring was nearly complete. This was all done in an effort to promote the film and, of course, highlight Baldoni as its director. However, when Lively was informed of this, quote, fake coloring session, she was incensed and demanded that Sony intervene and stop the interview from happening. Missing period, Sony obliged, which left Baldoni and team disturbed by Lively's insertion into Baldoni's own marketing and promotional efforts for the film.

0:11:40 Thomas: Once again, how is Sony telling you to do that? I don' t know what it is. I don't know what that is, but it's just really interesting detail. So it sounds like he was getting a puff piece and they're like can we get you know we gotta get some footage of you being the director and he's like uh he's like let me let me go see if I can pretend to do that because I'm not allowed in the building anymore so he breaks into the building it's like oh yeah and as you can see here uh we're doing this coloring thing I don't fucking color correction or whatever is that what it

0:11:59 Lydia: Have you, like, actually working on the film? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah so it's a post -production process of color grading

0:12:22 Thomas: Is sure like the filtering and the

0:12:22 Lydia: So they can adjust it to create yeah specific mood or whatever

0:12:25 Thomas: Yeah I'm just doing this this is all done in an effort to to promote the film was it or was it done in an effort to promote you either way so why would lively be mad about this because as presented I don't know why she would be because it's not she hasn't tried to get Justin uncredited as the director she's not erasing she's not like getting rid of the knowledge like the men in black thing that he directed so as they present it is just like she's so mad that he would even get to do a shoot as though though he's the director. I don't believe that. I would find it more likely that she has a reason, rightly or wrongly, that makes sense to be mad about. Like maybe she thought he was trying to like influence the coloring session. Like maybe, you know, like maybe it's him trying to get back into the control in some way.

0:13:09 Lydia: No get something back in the cut

0:13:14 Thomas: But the other thing that makes no sense is she demanded that Sony intervene. Okay, she can demand that to Sony. And then it says to stop the interview from happening, as you read, said, Sony obliged, which left Baldoni and the team disturbed. What does that mean, Sony obliged? Why would they have the ability to say, no, you don't get to do this particular thing for a puff piece? And the next sentence is, disturbed by Lively's insertion into Baldoni's own marketing and promotional effort. So by your admission, it's your own thing. How would Sony even have a say over that?

0:13:33 Lydia: Maybe right yeah something is definitely missing here and we have we have nothing to back this up

0:13:49 Thomas: Just something is missing. No, yep, no documents, no text, no anything, nothing. It's just reeks of bullshit. I don't believe it. I don't Believe what they're saying.

0:13:55 Lydia: Either no emails about the piece itself like nothing there's nothing there then a few days later Later, apparently Wayfair, you know, Wayfaire is informed that Ryan Reynolds contacted Baldoni's personal agent at WME. During the call, Reynolds escalates his attack on Baldoni. Baldoni is character, calling him a, quote, deranged predator. Baldoni agent relays to Wayfairy that he did his best to reason with Reynolds and challenge the absurd claims. But Reynolds was unwilling to consider any counter narrative. Reynolds reiterated that Baldoni should not attend the premiere on August 6, stating, quote. No one wants him there. Also reiterated. I don't think it had ever been iterated at that point, July 15th. Maybe I'm forgetting something. When Baldoni's agent shares this conversation with Baldoni and Heath, both are disturbed by Reynolds' continued efforts to damage Baldoni'S reputation within the agency. They're always disturbed.

0:14:05 Thomas: Ooh. Yeah. This will be important, right? Yeah.

0:14:49 Lydia: They're Always Disturbed.

0:14:50 Thomas: They are just bystanders in their own lives constantly. Gosh, all these things are just happening to them.

0:14:55 Lydia: But you know, despite that, two days after, Baldoni attends Lily Bloom's pop -up shop at Westfield Century City to promote the film.

0:15:02 Thomas: That's weird.

0:15:03 Lydia: This was a promotion that everybody was involved with, and I think it was just like they had different schedules so they didn't have to be there at the same time. And we get a little Stephanie Jones moment here, too. Following the pop -up, Jones contacts Abel to check in after having called her a 12 -year -old girl, I guess. And drama queen.

0:15:17 Thomas: Yeah, and also she's not involved and she's erratic.

0:15:20 Lydia: Yeah. But she also, yeah,

0:15:21 Thomas: But here's a text of Stephanie Jones saying, how is the pop -up? How'd it go?

0:15:24 Lydia: Yeah. Abel responds, it looks so good. Justin was great. I feel bad for him because he's just under so much pressure and so sensitive that he can't even acknowledge when something is good. He just looks so dazed and sad, but he did a really great job. Ryan Reynolds is apparently constantly calling his agent blank and saying what a horrible person Justin is. It's so weird.

0:15:43 Thomas: So we have not second Secondhand, not thirdhand, but fourthhand. You know, like what?

0:15:48 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. From a 12 year old drama queen. Yeah.

0:15:48 Thomas: So that's from a 12 -year -old. In a text message to Steph Jones, that's Jen Abel saying, apparently, like I've heard. That's the proof for this. Okay.

0:15:58 Lydia: And it's PR people also like they're gossiping. Like that's also part of what's happening there.

0:16:03 Thomas: And then kind of more on that stuff. Lively Reynolds and other members of the film's cast attend the premiere for Deadpool and Wolverine. This just looks like more opportunities for kind of synergistic relationships, you know, that Blake Lively is providing. So it's more promo. That's kind of bonus. Cool.

0:16:20 Lydia: So we have a picture of Blake Lively with Young Lily and Young Atlas, I think that they went to the Deadpool and Wolverine premiere at the after party.

0:16:28 Thomas: The only purpose of that entry in the timeline is someone said someone that someone said, someone, someone just fucking nothing. Hearsay of hearsay, fucking nothing, no, no documents, no text, this timeline document, they put in everything they fucking could. They said they include all the everything and they couldn't find anything for that.

0:16:45 Lydia: Here's all the receipts. Guess there's no receipt for that.

0:16:55 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:16:55 Thomas: So July 23rd, I mean, we already know this, but it says Sony informs Wayfair, the studio financing the premiere and most of the film Oh, God, every time.

0:17:01 Lydia: Like we haven't been reading this for 100

0:17:03 Thomas: That Lively had demanded Tat Baldoni. I know it's just a typo, but Tat Baldani, Heath, and Waver. What if that's their quoting Lively?

0:17:05 Lydia: Pages tat

0:17:13 Thomas: Hey, Lively said, Tat Baldini, Heath. Waver refrained from attending the New York premiere and threatens a cast -wide boycott if they do. That's incredible. Wow. Imagine how a whole cast would be willing to do that.

0:17:13 Lydia: Yeah

0:17:24 Thomas: Okay. What is that? Can you read this July 24th? The wording is crazy.

0:17:24 Lydia: Yeah mindful of the potential premier boycott and not knowing what lively and reynolds were planning to do if baldoni and team attended able emails the wayfarer team requesting lively's november legal letter correctly assuming that lively would try to use the letter against wayfarers okay or it's that you're getting ready to hire melissa nathan in

0:17:48 Thomas: Oh, I bet what you're going to do is use all the stuff I did wrong against me in the document that you spelled out called Everything I Did Wrong.

0:17:49 Lydia: Because it's about a week before they sign her on. Yeah.

0:17:59 Thomas: Well, I was right.

0:18:00 Lydia: Also, this is such like a fail on Jen Abel's part two. Like, you know that things have been a big mess in terms of like your client being able to participate in this stuff. Why are you just asking for this now? I feel like that is something you should have asked for far earlier when things started being weird. If he hadn't disclosed it to you previously why are you asking for it now

0:18:24 Thomas: I'm cheating by looking down at the thing you're talking about. And it says, just wanted to send a friendly reminder if you could please share with us the legal letter. Maybe they've been asking for it for a while. And maybe because they know they're guilty as shit, Jamie and Justin are like, okay, I don't want to send, you know, and then they finally do.

0:18:34 Lydia: Yeah it could be

0:18:42 Thomas: But once you keep doing that paragraph, yeah,

0:18:41 Lydia: Yeah all right with the letter in hand Abel intends to draft context for each issue to ensure the team can factually refute any press leaks able emphasizes a reactive strategy acknowledging its drawbacks and advises promptly countering any public claims with facts third -party sources and if necessary legal action quote we will just need to be prescriptive and immediately refuting whatever Whatever is made public with facts, third -party sourcing on background, and if necessary, a legal response. Why did you just not quote? You should have just quoted it.

0:19:11 Lydia: Why did you write it and then, like, take the quote? God.

0:19:11 Thomas: That you paraphrase the quote you just were about to do. OK, wait,

0:19:15 Lydia: And not well. Like, just, okay. Upon receiving Lively's 17 -item list, Abel clarifies that they are, quote, demands, not grievances.

0:19:24 Thomas: How does she clarify that? What?

0:19:26 Lydia: I don't know.

0:19:26 Thomas: So Jen Abel sent. So July 24th. Hold on. At 923 a .m., she says, Jamie and blank appreciate you both keeping us in the loop. Wait. So on July 24, just wanted to send a friendly reminder. If you could please share with us the legal letter. Why don't you read this letter? This is interesting. We haven't seen anything like this before.

0:19:44 Lydia: Just wanted to send a friendly reminder, if you could please share with us the legal letter that was sent by BL and her team. Per our conversation, we will go through point -by -point and draft context surrounding each situation. We can then flag what we are missing that would be helpful to arm us in case we need to refute any of the claims. Jamie, understand that you are also compiling info on the various incidents, which will be helpful to ensure we are in the know on everything. We will need potential witnesses, location slash context, people who could be in our corner to speak on background to refue any claims and provide additional color surrounding the atmosphere on set. To reiterate our strategy, we should not be doing anything proactive.

0:20:19 Thomas: Should not just read it straight we should not be to do anything

0:20:21 Lydia: I'm trying to be kind. We should not be doing anything proactive. I know, but I'm also trying to be kind to our audience so they're not having to navigate poor

0:20:25 Thomas: Look if they underlined it as evidence we're going to fucking read it as is yeah we are not having a stroke we should get a little warning that I play over and over attention this is not a

0:20:32 Lydia: Sentence structure. Yeah, we should not be to do anything productive that could light our own fire unnecessarily. While it isn't ideal to be on the defense due to the ambiguity and uncertainty of what could potentially be claimed, we will just need to be prescriptive and immediately refuting whatever is made public with facts, third -party sourcing on background and if necessary a legal response retaliate

0:20:56 Thomas: Stroke now keep in mind this is before she even knows she doesn't have the legal letter she doesn'T know that they agreed to not retaliate she doesn't know that well I guess we don't know what she knows but it's possible she doesn''T know I think it's likely she didn't know they have a legal obligation to not retaliate. So I feel like this is just coincidental at best that she's not doing anything proactive because it wouldn't make any sense. You wouldn't want to proactively... I think they're trying to point to this as evidence that they didn't retaliate, but this is what you would say at the time because you're not going to bring up the charges against him apropos of nothing before it's even out in the public. You'd be like, okay, she's going to say that I didn't know. It's going to be defensive. What's this last paragraph? Might as well read that

0:21:37 Lydia: Please also keep us posted on where conversations net out with sony in the premiere until then we are moving forward business as usual I communicated this previously but just to arm you further in your conversations it's an easy thing to orchestrate a staggered arrival to ensure there is no crossing of paths on the carpet screening and jb can easily skip the after party here for any questions in the the meantime and we will stand by thank you jennifer

0:21:56 Thomas: So that's at 9 23 a .m july 24th three hours later she says great thanks and and this is still jen abel a quick

0:22:06 Lydia: Then this is to wme interesting okay so I think that this is the other person that they are emailing that jen abel's emailing it's jamie and this person from wme justin's agent I'm sure and a cc2

0:22:09 Thomas: Oh shit uh well now I'm not sure I don't know if this is the same thread because this this quoted text hidden this looks like a reply to something else so wme oh Oh, wow.

0:22:22 Lydia: Uh oh yeah no that's true okay oh yeah yep you're right so wme said something to jen able and she responds great thanks a quick follow here we received the letter via the Wayfair team so we are going through it it's a list of her her demands, not grievances, but still helpful for us to have. I'm also looping in blank. Let's keep her copied on these comms. Thanks again.

0:22:47 Thomas: That's not like amazing evidence. That's your own PR person talking to your agency, right? Okay. That's just your PR, man. That's not evidence of anything.

0:22:54 Lydia: Yeah, It's your team. They all work for you.

0:22:59 Thomas: Yeah. Huh. But this is interesting. We haven't seen this before.

0:23:02 Lydia: And then that same day

0:23:03 Thomas: Yeah. 11 .02. Okay. This is actually before that. So we can assume that Jen Abel has received the legal document, and then she sends a text message to Stephanie.

0:23:09 Lydia: In between the two. Yeah. Yeah after receiving the legal document she said also I just got off the phone with redacted wayfarer and she was asking for our recs for a potential crisis comms team if they wanted to bring someone in to work hand in hand with us if needed she mentioned blank which she said you guys all work together for blank but I said I would connect with you for best recos deaf not blank he's not strong who do you recommend this is from Stephanie Jones I think blank could be amazing or blank team

0:23:42 Thomas: But keep in mind, this is the ever erratic, not even there. And she's tried to falsify allegations against someone and Jen Abel wouldn't agree. Like, fucking this is not concordant with that at all. This is stupid.

0:23:54 Lydia: Yeah yeah less than two weeks later I've only ever worked with blank or blank not yeah not familiar with blank but

0:23:59 Thomas: That's Jen Abel, by the way. OK, what was the point of including that? That's very interesting. But I just think it's funny the timing of like, so they're going to need a crisis after seeing the thing. And I guess she did say that it was someone with Wayfair and she was asking for a rec. But still, that could be like as a result of all of this and then being like, you might want to have crisis PR for her.

0:24:02 Lydia: I trust your recs here. Yep. So good.

0:24:25 Thomas: So she asked Jeff Jones for recommendations. But then it seems like Abel the next day says Wayfarer receives several crisis PR recommendations, including Melissa Nathan, a veteran in the field. Abel, having worked previously with Nathan, endorses her based on their strong professional relationship. But we know that Jones hates Nathan, right?

0:24:42 Lydia: Yes.

0:24:42 Thomas: It's weird to ask for her recommendations, and the next day be like, let's go with the person that my boss hates, even though I just asked for her recommendations.

0:24:51 Lydia: Yep. Well, I mean, because we saw when we covered the Jones lawsuit, we saw the text messages between Melissa Nathan and Jennifer Abel leading up to this point in time. Because remember, the Business Insider article came out in May. This is now the end of July. Melissa Nathan, and Jennifer Abel are, they are close at this point. And Melissa Nathan's basically helping Jen Abel plan her escape from JonesWorks.

0:25:16 Lydia: So this was all like pretending to care about Stephanie Jones recommendations and try and get her to also sign off on Melissa because that's your plan anyway.

0:25:28 Thomas: Interesting.

0:25:29 Lydia: It is crazy that it's like literally the day after

0:25:32 Thomas: She's so two -faced. They're all very two-faced, but yeah,

0:25:33 Lydia: It's they're all two-faced, but like it feels so calculated because we're talking about in the span of like 24 hours, they were like, let's get on a call with Melissa Nathan, and bring her on board. Let's share these documents with her.

0:25:42 Thomas: Less. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you read that? So that's Melissa Nathan. So this is July 25th. Says the next day, Melissa Nathan says,

0:25:55 Lydia: Yep, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. Jen and our team will connect tomorrow and go through everything. I know time is definitely of the essence here. We will aim to have a plan to you by the end of tomorrow. Have a lovely evening, Melissa.

0:26:01 Thomas: And that was in response to, we

0:26:17 Lydia: Now from somebody to Melissa, someone who works for Melissa,

0:26:21 Thomas: Would love to to jump on a zoom now if possible which was sent earlier that evening and then the next day this is melissa nathan back to them again saying thank you all so uh thank oh yeah you're right I guess so

0:26:21 Lydia: But then why is it to her? Why isn't she on the CC line? Strange.

0:26:24 Thomas: So we don't know who there's an email we don'T KNOW WHO IT'S FROM it's to melissa nathan cc 'ing jamie heath which seems weird once you read this is

0:26:32 Lydia: Hi all, thank you so again for the time last evening and for the incredible context provided to us. And then in in our rectangle as promised please find our attached scope of work which details our overall approach opportunities to prevent and mitigate crisis aid the larger team in branding and messaging and finally our cost of services we look forward to your thoughts and feedback on this and of course please do let us know of any questions you might have thank you redacted

0:26:49 Thomas: Interesting so that's just somebody on the team I guess melissa and nathan I think they're trying to say oh look prevent you know like it's a passive thing but yeah prevent and mitigate crisis that That could easily mean, you know, retaliation. I don't think there's any reason why not for sure. And here is this. Now we have the scope of work. Was this something that the thing that Blake used or no?

0:27:16 Lydia: No no the the thing that blake used in hers was the marketing plan and the scenario planning document that's what you're remembering the scope of Work is before they've officially signed on

0:27:27 Thomas: But even this doesn't seem good for their whole thing if it's trying to paint a picture of only reactive stuff. So I think we better read that. So we haven't gone through this before. I don' t think.

0:27:36 Lydia: So I was was going to skip this overview but I think like just from the outset we see that this is not necessarily just reactive as they try to say it is tag pr will work closely with jonesworks justin baldoni wayfair studios and its applicable executives to design and implement a crisis communication strategy to protect and enhance the reputations of justin baldoni Wayfair Studios and their executives while navigating through anticipated and unforeseen challenges leading up to the it ends with us premiere and its aftermath as part of our efforts to protect the company's position tag pr we'll provide ongoing strategic counsel and rapid interference to mitigate references of controversy, correct inaccurate narratives, and push out factual positive messaging to create a level of control and balance in coverage surrounding the premiere and in the months afterwards. Our plan will be tailored to reach key audiences, including selected media, industry decision makers, partners, investors, and other creatives to ensure the longevity and prosperity of Justin Baldoni, Wayfair Studios, its applicable executives, and future projects. Our approach will include the following elements.

0:28:33 Thomas: All right. Here's a bunch of bullet points. Let's see.

0:28:35 Lydia: The first section, crisis prevention and mitigation highlight anything

0:28:38 Thomas: Can you understand? Yeah. Maybe just see what you think. Curate statements. Treatments, background information, talking points for press reflecting the company's core values. Keeping in mind, we do have evidence from Blake, you know, that we've already seen that's like we can't put in writing what we're going to do. So keeping in mind that this is already going to be a watered down version of that, probably.

0:28:56 Lydia: Develop a comprehensive scenario planning document outlining a series of potential outcomes with the suggested course of action for each

0:29:02 Thomas: Oh, that's the thing we've seen. Provide input on specific inquiries and liaise with reporters to mitigate negative stories slash correct inaccuracies. Yeah, liaize with reporters.

0:29:03 Lydia: Variable yes oh liaise monitor coverage and social conversations correcting and updating stories and headlines

0:29:17 Thomas: Correcting and updating stories and headlines in real time. Very interesting.

0:29:18 Lydia: In real time yes uh this next section I guess that they only have two sections of work that they'll be doing this other one is branding and messaging

0:29:28 Thomas: Dense document. Let's see if we can find anything. This is the same thing over again, really. Yeah, no, that's like restating. You're just trying to pad the document. Here's everything we're doing for you. They just restated basically everything they said. Term three months, 15 ,000 a month expenses as incurred. Okay, so that's that document. Interesting. I mean, not much there. We've already seen the more damning one, I think. This seems to be more of the like puff piece boilerplate. Like, here's what we're going to do. Yeah, we already have some of this, but July 26th, upon learning that. So the next, this is so funny. We've already tracked for you what happened. Two days after asking Jones for recommendations, it says, upon learning that Wayfarer was considering working with Melissa Nathan, Stephanie Jones, seeing her as competition, began pressuring Abel to intervene and tell Wayfarers that she was, quote, shady. Abel refused to do so, which only made Jones more irritated. I don't believe you because she already was like, here's people I recommend for crisis PR. Why would this one crisis PR person be competition?

0:29:32 Lydia: Messaging yeah sign with us yeah yeah yeah

0:30:28 Thomas: I mean, we've seen other stuff where she's like, I don't think you necessarily need this, but if you need, if you want, okay. But like, oh no, if You Do This Person, she doesn't want her as competition or she's shady or Stephanie Jones has a legitimate opinion that, hey, you just asked me my opinion and then you went with this person.

0:30:45 Lydia: I don't remember reading some of these texts

0:30:48 Thomas: No, this might be extra stuff here. This is Stephanie Jones, Jen Abel that day. Let's see if there's anything good.

0:30:52 Lydia: This yeah I think there's some good stuff in here just spoke to blank can I call you quickly oh god I just saw your note we can talk later what was your feedback to blank all she said was I'm working with steph on this but we have reached out to melissa nathan for crisis comm steph has flagged some issues and potential conflicts with us and jamie and I are investigating and we will keep you posted and I'm like okay let me know how I can help steph just texted me too and I'll call her back and that was it pretty short I called you right after stephanie jones says surprised you didn't weigh in with an opinion don't you think you should also text jamie me blank with how we feel

0:31:03 Thomas: You'd think it would be Justin, but yeah.

0:31:24 Lydia: I think it's tara we always discuss how she doesn't lead with integrity you say how shady she is all the time just kind of surprised you wouldn't weigh -in with that this is from jen abel now she literally said she was into it with you and that she and jamie were investigating it wasn't that open of a call where she asked for my opinion more of telling me what was going on and that she would keep me posted and I said okay I'll call steph she just texted me

0:31:30 Thomas: That's interesting. Interesting so obviously this is two -faced jen abel lying to stephanie jones because jen able just to remind you not two seconds ago scroll back up here to what we just saw we just sah jenable say july 25th abel having previously worked with nathan endorses her based on their strong professional relationship and then they meet with nathon right away so jenabel is endorsing the fuck out of her obviously and is making this happen and then just lying to stefanie jones her her employer.

0:31:48 Lydia: Oh it gets better Oh, I can't wait.

0:32:10 Lydia: Yep. And she's like, but you hate her too. You've told me so many times how shady she is.

0:32:16 Thomas: She's like, oh, they didn't really ask me for my opinion.

0:32:20 Lydia: Yeah. Why is this happening?

0:32:22 Thomas: I was just, I said I'd call you. Yeah. You know, she's just lying.

0:32:26 Lydia: And then Stephanie Jones says, okay, I think since we are all on that chat, you should share with them how you feel about her too, so we are honest and it's not just me. Definitely think it's important for you to voice concern too. That's why she called you. She said you didn't, so that kind of hurts me. Jennifer Abel says, I didn't say anything other than what I texted you. It was a quick call. Stephanie jones responds in transparency I think it would be better to put on group text with us jen abel says yeah because they forgot to redact that ah sorry I'll call tara I don't want to put anything else in writing and that's yeah stephani jones says you don't trust tara and me jennifer abel she made it seem like she was handling this separate from us so I didn't dig in and didn't want to get more involved if they wanted to hire someone neutrally from us steph jones jen we talk about lots on text it's okay she wanted you to opine jenniper abel let me call you back my friend just got here stephanie jones call me please okay it's just three of us you can put in text of what you

0:32:49 Thomas: Now we have Tara. That's interesting. Oh my God. Wow, this is real shady.

0:33:17 Lydia: Of what you tell me is truthful I would feel better if you did because it makes me feel like you're corroborating I think she means collaborating maybe oh

0:33:23 Thomas: No, corroborating because Stephanie Jones, okay, from Stephanie Jones's point of view, and I don't think it would make sense for Stephanie Stephanie Jones to be lying in a text to Jen Abel about this. And she says, you always say she's sketchy. You say how shady she is all the time. And now Stephanie Jones has put in to Wayfair, hey, she's sketchy, and then Jen Able is silent because secretly we already know she's like recommended Melissa Nathan. She's like, hey why are you leaving me out to dry? It's weird that I'm the only one saying she's sketchy you always say that.

0:33:38 Lydia: Corroboration yeah yep yeah why am I alone

0:33:58 Thomas: She's like, I don't want to put it in writing. Okay.

0:34:00 Lydia: And then Jen Abel responds stop I'm not part of that at all I'm not comfortable putting it in writing I'll fill her in on the blank of it all I'll call her tomorrow because I'm with people now and going to a movie after this Stephanie Jones responds Help me understand why why you don't want to put she's shady and we don't want to work with her in writing. You don't have to use her name. Doesn't add up. I love you and this is killing me.

0:34:20 Thomas: Kidding.

0:34:21 Lydia: Jen Abel, I love you too. You have to trust me. Please, this is not worth stressing over. Stephanie Jones, this makes me sad. You do not have to put her name. We need honesty and transparency. If I was Jen Abel, Brian Friedman is her lawyer too. I would be kind of pissed that that exists here.

0:34:33 Thomas: We didn't get this lying

0:34:40 Lydia: This is so shady. Honestly, it also dispels all of the stupid crazy making stuff that they've been trying to say about stephanie jones like oh she's you know she's losing her mind she's she flies off the handle she gets so angry yeah yeah right next to all the things about jen abel you know encouraged us to hire melissa nathan and had strong recommendations and then you see this paired with that who in their right mind would ever want to work with jennifer abel ever again ever

0:34:40 Thomas: To her face directly yeah yeah Yeah, you're actively gaslighting her So funny wow What an asshole this is their own document everybody with that I think we're gonna need to call it there for now we've gotten to the premiere just about and we've caught up to where the lawsuit is next made a lot of progress but there's still more to go but I just think that is unbelievable how fucking bad that makes Abel look in their own shit. Such a liar.

0:35:30 Lydia: Yeah, by her own lawyer, like, God, this, yeah I know it is interesting yeah because I feel like like Stephanie Jones could have, they're her text messages too. She could have screenshotted those and plopped them in there.

0:35:33 Thomas: Yeah. And it's funny that that stuff wasn't even in Steph Jones's complaint, which is interesting.

0:35:46 Thomas: Yeah, but I'm trying to remember, was that the one where it's like they didn't put any screenshots of her own stuff in?

0:35:52 Lydia: Yeah. And I also don't know that it necessarily, like, I think you would have had to spend quite a bit of ink drawing the connection of like why those things are relevant exactly.

0:36:01 Thomas: Yeah, I think it's in her complaint and Jones's complain. They already had the evidence from the subpoena and it's like they're going to just use that's just lawyer thing to do. You don't provide. Provide it's another reason you don't put a bunch of evidence and screenshots in your thing is like no it's not just that I had this come up too where I was like hey put this put this and they're like well we want him to have to get that in discovery like there's no there's No reason to do their work for them in terms of like giving them any more information even though it was information that was good for me that I was putting in there they're Like yeah make him earn that in Discovery because you don't have to be putting all this shit in complaints you know and so it's kind of interesting, but she had all that evidence from the subpoena. And so that was already kind of on the table evidence -wise. And So I think that's why Jones's lawyers just use that stuff. So that's why we haven't seen this, but this is wow. I hadn't seen This. This is really able

0:36:15 Lydia: Because then you got some podcasters picking it apart. I'm just kidding. Yeah. Yep. Yeah,

0:36:54 Thomas: As a lying piece of shit.

0:36:55 Lydia: We've always been honest about Stephanie Jones. Like we've always been on it that she seems like, yes, yes.

0:36:57 Thomas: She comes across great in this document so far. Is there anything in this timeline? We're on page 106 of this timeline of exhaustive evidence of all this stuff. There's not a single thing that makes Stephanie Jones look bad. Isn't that interesting?

0:37:12 Lydia: I know. I I know, it's crazy.

0:37:13 Thomas: There's a bunch bunch of stuff that makes them look bad in their own thing.

0:37:17 Lydia: Man.

0:37:17 Thomas: She's like, this makes me sad. I love you. This doesn't add up.

0:37:21 Lydia: It's important that we're honest and transparent. What's happening?

0:37:22 Thomas: It doesn't ad up. Why is she saying I don't want to put it in writing in a text with the three of them for this client that's like has been a Steph Jones client for our Jonesworks client for it's just weird. She'S like, what is happening?

0:37:33 Lydia: Yep. Yeah.

0:37:34 Thomas: And this is after she already said she was leaving. Right.

0:37:36 Lydia: This is two weeks after she said she was leaving.

0:37:39 Thomas: And even still, even still. So that actually lends more credibility to Steph Jones's story this whole time that it wasn't until she had reason and found out that Jen Abel was doing all the fucking printing out her resume, basically stealing all the documents. That's what it was stealing the documents. Yeah. Stealing the documents and the emails and bragging how she stole them from Stephanie Jones. That is when shit changed. And this is completely evidence of that. Steph Jones story makes way more sense in their own documents than their story.

0:37:52 Lydia: On the company printers. Yeah. Yeah. Mm.

0:38:06 Thomas: It is just so funny. God, they have nothing.

0:38:16 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:38:16 Thomas: So this is kind of the last of this round of chunk, just in terms of us recording wise, like we record, you know, we record like long ass segments at a time, probably like five hours at least. And that turns into anywhere from two to three hours of content. And honestly, it's been six hours before and turned into like two and a half. That was when we, that one month when we weigh, I just weigh, did not understand how dense this was going to be. And again, I am editing a ton to try to make this more streamlined so it's not boring, annoying us looking stuff up and going over stuff we don't need to go over again so doing my best on that it is labor intensive oh my god it's labor intensive Anyway Point is, I would like to reflect on the previous mega chunk and first off I think the theme of this episode was baldoni and heath either either they're just doing it for the sake of law but I actually don't think that's it I actually think they are taking people at their word when they really shouldn't be Clearly, Sony was just giving them the runaround with this stuff Clearly, Sony was like, oh yeah, we don't know what she's shooting. We just weren't involved. You know, we weren't for them to turn around and take that and be like, whoa, she didn't even allow Sony

0:38:36 Lydia: Three is being generous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, please. Yeah.

0:39:33 Thomas: To see what she was filming. It's like, that's so embarrassing that like it's actively embarrassing. That's like a social nightmare when it's like someone tells you a white lie or something. And then I guess they take it really earnestly and then repeat it back to everybody. You said that Tina was gone that weekend. So how could there have been a party that I wasn't invited to?

0:39:54 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. No, it really

0:39:57 Thomas: And then meanwhile, everyone's like, oh, fuck, There was a party.

0:39:59 Lydia: It really is like the cognitive maturity and development of children. There are markers in development when kids are able to kind of like ascertain that stuff a little bit more. And the way that they interpret it, it's like they haven't ever learned it or something or they haven't ever developed that understanding.

0:40:17 Thomas: I think it's also, and maybe this is projecting onto my experience with Andrew, but there's a certain like narcissistic quality where people just see what they want to be true. And I don't know that like, maybe in another situation they would see through this or something. Like if it wasn't something something they deeply, deeply wanted to be true. But it seems so clear that they got an idea one way or the other that Blake was just going to screw them or something early on, probably because they create a horrible environment and people were mad at them. So then they have to turn it into like, well, they're out to get us kind of thing. And then they interpreted everything through that lens. And I think they really wanted her to be doing weird stuff. And so they're just willing to believe Sony and take them at their word. Now, mind you, I don't know for sure. This is still my theory, but like, I'm pretty sure that like some of these emails and this, this isn't the only time it's happened. There's been other times. I can't think of the specific examples, but I know there's been Other times we've seen in this very complaint where they're just taking something that someone said that clearly

0:41:20 Thomas: Was like, you know, they were trying to avoid telling them a harsh truth perhaps, or just trying to get through a conversation. And they took it in all sincerity. And I just think they are just looking at what they want to be true. And it's very easy for them to believe it also how about those uh jones texts that we didn't get to see before those are pretty interesting no

0:41:38 Lydia: I know that's exciting with the amount of time that we spent on the Jones lawsuit. And I mean, we talked about this a little bit in the show, too, that it probably just isn't relevant to her claims exactly.

0:41:49 Thomas: I think it's relevant it's more

0:41:50 Lydia: You know, it's not really it's not necessary. I get it. But talk about like right sizing character for Jennifer Abel and Stephanie Jones. The way that that text thread went, it was very as much as someone might not like Stephanie Jones and her tactics and stuff. Like very clearly, she is saying they're like, you know, just be honest with them. Tell them what you really think, you know?

0:41:50 Thomas: That that she just wasn't going to proactively put in discovery that I said it before and I think this is perhaps the propaganda working because I'm very very skeptical of anyone who's been portrayed as like an abusive person I'm usually like okay there's not going to be a bunch of complaints about someone being an abusive person without it being true like I just it just never is like almost never because people just the way humans are people don't get together and form group lies like that it just doesn't really happen especially in a very serious formal way people might talk shit on someone they might you know whatever but like the fact that there was the article and it just seemed like there was some there there with steph jones and maybe there is but honestly it's pretty crazy that we've gone through so much discovered material or whatever, or just revealed material. And there isn't a single thing that makes her look bad. I can't, is there anything? Is there a single text? I said it in the show, but I'm saying, I'm trying to think even beyond this episode, is there a single thing that we've seen that firsthand makes her look bad because there's so much that makes literally everyone else, but like, and

0:43:19 Thomas: Including Blake a little bit, like there's stuff that makes Blake look bad there's there's Stuff making almost everybody else look bad some people like Abel look really shitty like just a fucking liar and same with Baldoni and Heath uh Heath especially but I can't think of anything that makes Jones look the slightest bit bad in this dispute

0:43:35 Lydia: Yeah, I I think you're right. I think the only material that we have that makes her look bad is stuff that was published in the article. Yeah. Right, right.

0:43:48 Thomas: And I believe I believe some of that stuff like the stuff where it's like they found the dj from the like I that's like who knows who knows that could be a misunderstanding or she could be shitty but like not somehow magically not at all not at all via text not at all in this very heated hated employment dispute that we've seen. It's just interesting. I literally would not have guessed that going into this, even already when I had formed kind of broadly my opinions on this whole thing. I kept thinking like, well, Steph Jones probably sucks just based on that. But I don't know, man. I really don't know anymore.

0:43:54 Lydia: Not via text or email. Email. Yeah. Yeah, I think the worst thing we saw was when they got off the meeting when Jen Abel said she was like leaving or whatever. And Steph responded on the side and saying, you know, that was really unprofessional. I feel like that's the worst thing. And no, there's nothing wrong with it. That's what I'm saying. It's like the most heated we saw Steph via these texts and emails anyway. Yeah?

0:44:30 Thomas: I don't see what's wrong with that at all, though.

0:44:38 Thomas: Very weird. It's just crazy. Well, I'm excited to get to the next mega chunk, actually, and the bonus episode that's going to go for patrons soon. We'll try to get on that, like I said, we do want to get out ahead of the December holidays. So we're going to try to get stuff out a little earlier than in past chunks, but famous last words. No, we will. We're doing it. Hon, we're doing it.

0:44:58 Lydia: We're doing it.

0:44:59 Thomas: Do it for the Gavalistas. Viva la Gavalista.

0:45:40 Thomas: Oh, I bet what you're going to do is use all the stuff I did wrong against me in the document that you spelled out called everything I did wrong I don't know is he have anything we'll just go out with that last one

0:45:53 Lydia: No, that's fine.