Lively v. Baldoni 46 - Hey Look, It's Textbook Retaliation By Baldoni Revealed In His Own Lawsuit

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:01 Clip: All rise. Court is now in session. Court is reconvened. I may be seated. Maintain order. The federal rise to face the jury and harken to its verdicts.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavel in everyone. I'm Thomas. That's Lydia. This is Gavel Gavel. We each represent one gavel. Gavel to gavel didn't someone call our show gavel to gavel? What was that? I don't remember.

0:00:35 Lydia: Gabble to gabble. Yes. I don't remember either, but yes, that did happen. Yeah.

0:00:40 Thomas: There's there's some sometime someone called it that and I thought it was funny. It's gavel to gavel over here. We're looking down the barrel of being maybe a third done with this fucking thing.

0:00:52 Lydia: Yeah. I started putting together like a spreadsheet to map our progress over these episodes. And then you were like, no, don't. It's too depressing. Yeah.

0:00:59 Thomas: Don't don't even do it. It's not worth it. Does Sisyphus have a spreadsheet tracking how many times he's moved the fucking rock, rolled the rock?

0:01:06 Lydia: You know what? Maybe he'd be able to get out of it if he did do a spreadsheet. Like maybe.

0:01:13 Thomas: Yeah, I guess he never tried it.

0:01:15 Lydia: No, he didn't.

0:01:16 Thomas: It's true. What an idiot, that guy.

0:01:16 Lydia: It would have helped an argument maybe where he's like, hey, this seems wrong.

0:01:18 Thomas: Do historians know why he never tried that?

0:01:22 Lydia: I don't think we know.

0:01:22 Thomas: Oh, man. It always reminds me of like, for some reason, this is really funny to me. And I still don't know the answer because I think my brain just doesn't remember. Gun to my head. Is the Trojan horse thing a myth or a real thing that happened. I don't know. You know, what's his name is doing that Odyssey movie. Nolan is doing the Odyssey.

0:01:41 Thomas: Maybe it's in that movie. Is the Trojan horse in the Odyssey or is it part of real history of something? I don'T know. I'll never know.

0:01:47 Lydia: I'm going to say that it was real and I can't wait to be wrong and for people to make fun of me.

0:01:51 Thomas: Real? Oh, wow. Like the horse was real. No, I'm just kidding. You think they put all those guys on a real horse? Idiot. Horses were much bigger back then. There's like two guys in there. They come out, they're like, ah, that didn't work very well.

0:01:55 Lydia: Yeah, it was an actual horse. They like gutted out the horse. I was like really crammed in. It could have been a Clydesdale. You don't know. Gross yeah disgusting just smell terrible always

0:02:14 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, gross. Anyway, this is just us avoiding the topic. This is like, if we're at the beginning of a therapy session and there's something really important, you know, and the therapist is like you're, you're stalling. We need to get to the complaint at hand on

0:02:26 Lydia: We should have a therapist on each of these episodes because then they can just call us out when we're doing this stuff yeah just be like get to it please

0:02:29 Thomas: Call for now. It has to be us. And then me editing out an hour of us stalling that's the gavel way so this is the 12th episode essentially of the baldoni complaint the wayfarer v lively yeah we've gotten past the list where they defend everything right I think we're we bested that foe cool and now we're just in a bunch of texts this is just we're in the spaghetti phase I mean a lot of this is spaghetti phase but this is this is a spaghetti phase and I'm just like throw spaghetti texts at the wall and just be like yeah and then look at all this and say it it with a tone that shows this is something important. And then mostly no one got this far in the complaint except us. Yeah.

0:02:38 Lydia: And putting it in the bloops yeah that's the gavel way wayfarer parties yeah yes yep the 17 point list yeah this is like the One of the I mean, I would almost even call this like the crux of their thing. Right. Which is that Blake Lively tried to take over the movie. We're in post -production land now. Right? So I think this is a lot of meat, I guess, like from the Wayfair perspective is a whole lot of ink is spent on this stuff. But yeah, I mean we'll see.

0:03:37 Thomas: But it's just like we ended last time going over texts. Well, we ended the last time we ended going over her giving really detailed feedback that was interesting, but setting that aside, it's pages of text with editors that aren't anything. And I know we already said this, but it's intentional. That's to confuse us. Here's a bunch of talk with editors, that's nothing. Oh, thanks for getting that organized. Okay. Oh wow. I was wondering what you're going to do. I know we talked about an 11 a.m.. start with Blake. That's all. It's nothing. I

0:04:05 Lydia: And with random dates and it jumps around and it's all meant to obfuscate.

0:04:11 Thomas: Think maybe what might be happening is if Justin's of the mindset, and I don't know how fair this is because we haven't talked to like film experts that much. I guess we've talked to a few people a little bit, but if Justin'S of the mind set that any intrusion into him and his his editors, anything is like unacceptable, then maybe that explains this where he's just like, look, look at how much I had to talk to the editors about ideas that weren't mine. Like other stuff. That's not me. You know, like I, we, this shouldn't, it's, we're talking about like scheduling with her and we're telling about her ideas and we'll talk like, I think maybe that's why I think that's the only thing that explains posting a bunch of conversations that just don't really have anything in them. And maybe that's, I don't know how valid that is. If they have the opinion, if he has the opinion that she should not be allowed to be involved in any way, I guess. But here's the other point. When you talk about taking over a movie, which is ridiculous, we know that's ridiculous, but does that mean doing some behind the scenes editing to get a cut that you want and then not even having an editor credit? Like, what does that do in the story of evil Blake trying to get her clutches and, you know, control of a movie? It doesn't really that doesn't Really make sense, you Know, because that would just be she wants the movie to be a little differently and she's not getting credit for that. Does that fit with the character they're building of her that she wanted to come in and take control? Because this strikes me as as we saw at the end of last episode, pointed critique directly art related and

0:05:44 Thomas: She is not getting an editing credit. It so it just fits more with she wants the movie to be a certain way because she thinks it's better that's all I'm saying like it doesn't fit with some like giving her yeah giving like just a personal personal agenda to me that's where we are I guess we should take our quick usual first break here and we're gonna go try to get past these texts that are just baffling they're just nothing we'll see if there's anything to them and then we skip through uh march of 2024 and we'll going to start into April of 2024 in the timeline. And we'll see what, see what that does. See if that does anything for him.

0:05:52 Lydia: Right. Right. I see what you're saying. Yeah, scheming. Yeah mm hmm. Yeah.

0:06:20 Thomas: See If there's better evidence in April. I don't know. Let's just keep putting it off. Hey, support the show. Get the stuff early at patreon.com/gavelpod. Thanks so much to our patrons who got stuff early. We hope you enjoyed it. We're trying to make it not be that much earlier this time, but still early, still good to be a patron. Still good to support the show. Still good to share the show.

0:06:40 Lydia: We're also in talks about some bonus episodes so no spoilers yet but if you don't want want to miss out on those. Those are going to be exclusive to patrons.

0:06:44 Thomas: Ooh. All right. After this, we'll get to Alright, set your gavels to stun, everyone, and let's turn on your gavel - yeah, to sleep, and then we don't have to do this. Make sure the safeties are off on your gavel. Yeah, I mean, there's a little bit of interesting stuff there where Editor 1 seems like they're kind of a dick, and on Baldoni's side, and Editor 2 is like, okay, don't care, you know, just like trying to get through the work, which I think is interesting.

0:07:00 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:07:04 Lydia: Stun ourselves. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah I think there's a good example of this in the April 18th text bottom of 78 where Justin says Blake wants to know when you could be there next week. Redacted name to kick off that text conversation and editor to the one who seems to be kind of like okay let's just get this done said I can fly on Sunday or Monday up to you guys. Justin responds and would you prefer to be there or edit from home editor two I honestly don't have a preference and then editor one chimes in even though they're not involved in the editing relationship with blake at this point and just writes and so it begins dot dot dot justin responds we could push for you to stay home it's up to you editor two says both have pros and cons I want blake to feel like she's getting what she wants so we can move on from this need of hers and then justin couldn't help himself for the record she's been getting what he wants this entire movie

0:08:09 Thomas: Has Justin not been getting what he wants this time? So editor one is the one that says Baldoni bent over backwards for months on end. And it's interesting because how they've been editing for months. I don't think so.

0:08:23 Lydia: Yeah let's see production wrapped end of January, I think, but I don't know that they've necessarily, I mean, months on end seems like a stretch. It might have been two months at that point, maybe, maybe. This is such a minor note, but on paragraph 139, it says, as April 2024 approached, we're already in the middle of April 2024, so I don'T know what they're talking about. And I was like, oh, did we go backwards with the texts below? No, it's April 21st. So it just like bothers me. That's just not, it's not good writing.

0:08:51 Thomas: It's interesting seeing editor two be a professional and editor one kind of be a Homer for Justin. And I don'T know what the story is there. Do we know the genders of these editors? I would say that But editor two seems perhaps more sympathetic to the situation, not even like they're on anybody's side, but just like being more kind of respectful all around. And editor one is a homer for Justin.

0:09:02 Lydia: I think someone had cracked it at some point.

0:09:18 Lydia: But yeah, one is a woman, one is a man.

0:09:21 Thomas: This is interesting. Editor two asks, so are we keeping the thrust, which I think, which at first I just read to be like, oh, the thrust of it, whatever. You know, it's actually a literal thrust. And Justin says that's going to end up being a Blake call. All, honestly, if you can get her to keep it in and it's in the movie when I get it back, it can stay in. She has approval of that scene, in quotes, he says. Editor two says, even for Young Lily? Editor one says, I was just thinking the same thing. Justin Baldoni says, when she claimed she was unsafe, she redid the nudity writer to get approval of Young Lily too.

0:09:27 Lydia: Oh no, it's definitely, yeah, an action. Yeah.

0:09:56 Thomas: And editor two says got it, which is like, yeah, because you don't have any fucking part in that. Like that's not, you're an editor coming in to a possible workplace sexual harassment situation. And the one person who's on one side of that, the perpetrator side, potentially, allegedly, again, even if you're just coming to this fresh, like the person, the accused person is saying she got a hold of nudity writers. So she got approval of this. I feel like editor two is just doing what you do, but you don't need to take sides. You know, you'd like that's being a professional. Got it. That's the information you're working with. Whatever. Editor one says SMH, you know, like what?

0:10:33 Lydia: Shaking my head for those who are not in the know, just in case.

0:10:35 Thomas: For those who are in the know, actually, for those in the know currently, you wouldn't know what that is. But for those In The Know in 1999.

0:10:46 Lydia: I don't know. We don't know who all listens to this podcast

0:10:49 Thomas: Yeah, no, I know. Justin Baldoni says because she wasn't a part of writing that sex scene and didn't want a character depicting her to have sex in high school. Uh, is that a shrug emoji?

0:10:53 Lydia: Shrug emoji

0:11:00 Thomas: Honestly, underlined. It's all about control. So she could get to where she will be next week. All good. What does that mean? Okay.

0:11:15 Lydia: That means in the editing bay all about control so she could get to being in the position of editing the movie herself which is next week

0:11:16 Thomas: And that's just such an unprofessional thing to say. Like I get that he's in a spat, he's In a dispute with Blake, but like, it's just such a messy thing. You're dealing with other professional.

0:11:23 Lydia: Yeah go complain to your bro chat like yeah

0:11:27 Thomas: Yeah. Complain to your Baha 'i chat, Bahaibros.

0:11:27 Lydia: We know you have one just stay venting there it

0:11:31 Thomas: Well, it's very, it's, it's unprofessional. Like these are two, we don't know these editors are or maybe we do or somebody does but right as of right now like these are just editors you're talking about and one of them is gonna go work with her so it feels like you're trying to like poison that editor as they're gonna go like physically be in the room maybe with with with blake yeah it could actually it's

0:11:35 Lydia: Is mm -hmm yeah and you know and you know what that could be interpreted as retaliation in the workplace after filing a sexual harassment complaint that is cookie cutter retaliation cookie cutter retaliation

0:11:57 Thomas: A good point actually yeah that is absolutely I didn't even think of that did they even I don't even think blank claimed that yeah it's hard because I don'T get a lot of exposure I DON'T know if anyone gets a lot exposure to what might be considered a reasonable person on Justin's

0:12:13 Lydia: I don't think anyone's ever called this out yeah mm -hm

0:12:13 Thomas: Side of this you know because the only we're in the other subreddit and all we see is it's just fucking insanity like even yeah even if you agreed with Justin that's insane like it's not there aren't reasoned arguments there and and to some degree that's what happens on online like when groups coalesce around a certain thing then they just tend to drive themselves more and more extreme like no matter what so I don't know but like if I were trying to speak to a reasonableperson who might be on Justin side I would just ask if this, forget everything else, this is a workplace. Forget everything else.

0:12:19 Lydia: Oh I just can't anymore yeah right mm

0:12:45 Thomas: Let's say Justin is like a high level supervisor and Blake in this situation, we'll call her like the next level down of supervisor, let's say. And she accuses her supervisor, Justin of, and other people by the way, but of sexual harassment, let'S say. Then that supervisor, the higher one, Justin, is in a conversation with some like down the rank workers and is talking shit about her her accusations. Forget everything else. Isn't that, as to your point, textbook part of what you can't do?

0:13:14 Thomas: Like you just can't, like you've been accused of sexual harassment. You can't do that. That's just not what you're supposed to do. He's saying her motives are all about control so that she could get into the editing bay. He is just saying that. It's not just that he is describing. It would be one thing, I think the first message was actually okay. When she claimed she was unsafe, she redid the nudity rider to get approval of young Lily too. Okay, whatever. Whatever. Yeah, that's fine. To say, though, that it's all about control so she could get to where she will be next week. That's just poisoning the well against this person who's accused you of sexual harassment in the workplace. Like it's just textbook.

0:13:14 Lydia: Yeah yep but leave it at that yeah

0:13:48 Thomas: That's kind of interesting. I don't I don'T think Blake's complaint even really talks about that.

0:13:51 Lydia: I don't think so. I don't. Right. And perhaps it's something that that they would incorporate as like part of their, you know, trial strategy or like like something like that where they're not having to call it out specifically or explicitly in their documents. But it's not even just that. It's like the shit talking and stuff that he does with them, too.

0:14:00 Thomas: Yeah, maybe. Yeah. It might be one thing if these editors were never were not in the same like, quote unquote, workplaces, Blake. I don' t know. This gets weird with the law. I'm not entirely sure on that. But like editor two is going to go work with Blake. So consider that regardless of what you think of Blake's accusations. You've got accuser accused. Accused is talking shit about accuser to someone who's then going to go work avecuser.

0:14:21 Lydia: Like, mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yep.

0:14:35 Thomas: That's just textbook. You can't do that, right? Yeah.

0:14:38 Lydia: I'm pretty positive it's retaliation on its face and they included it themselves. Themselves. Yeah.

0:14:43 Thomas: And their complaint.

0:14:44 Lydia: And I will say if this whole thing hadn't exploded to where we are now, and I think about that a lot, like how this could have been handled differently. Even this text where you say it's probably fine. Right. The when she claimed she was unsafe. I don't even think it's necessarily like appropriate for Justin to incorporate that language at all. Like that's a work. You know, if she's saying claimed she wasn't safe. OK, now we're talking about a workplace investigation. That's not something you should be talking about to anybody who's not involved Yeah, exactly.

0:15:13 Thomas: That's true. If we were really doing this by the book, it should be. She has approval of young Lily.

0:15:17 Lydia: Exactly. Just black and white.

0:15:19 Thomas: Yeah, no, you're right.

0:15:20 Lydia: There's no there's no context needed for that. All they need to know is how they move forward with the work that they're supposed to do. And that's all he has to say. And a story.

0:15:26 Thomas: It really infantilizes him. Him, I think, to just excuse all this mouthing off all the time. It's unprofessional. He's a child. I get some of that is like, yeah, I mean, some of this is not a typical workplace and you're dealing with like atypical stuff, but like, I don't know. Sorry, you're in control of a studio and of a movie. You're a director, like, and you've been accused. It'd be one thing if everything was hunky -dory, you have no complaints, you are a little informal with people, whatever. I sort to think that like things can drop formality as you're in a safe fine working environment sure fine but like you've been accused of something once you have someone making detailed lengthy accusations with lawyers involved this is post all that you gotta button up and like actually do the shit you're supposed to do as someone in that position even if you think you're totally innocent

0:15:37 Lydia: Emotionally immature. Yeah. Yeah, also, here's the thing. People used to say, oh, well, Hollywood's different, right? Like this is different. There was a reckoning where people were saying it should not be different. It should not be categorized differently than any other workplace. I have a right to feel safe in my work environment. We went through this. We went through this with the entire Me Too movement, with Harvey Weinstein. Like, these were serious reckonings that Hollywood had to have, and part of the reason why an intimacy coordinator exists at all. So to now say, well, it's a different work environment, no, we're past that. It's not a different work environment as it relates to protections offered to the people who work on sets. End of story.

0:16:52 Thomas: Then it seems like editor two is working with blake and yeah and then uh says says, we just finished up for the day. And Justin says, great. Should we all chat? And editor two says, yes, but let me get out of the building. Then I can call. Jamie would like to join. It looks like they have a call. Don't really get any details of that call, but it's, but it's interesting too, because Justin says sometime probably after that call. I guess, or we can't really tell based on this. Thank you again. You know, editor two, so sorry. You have to be in this position yet. No one is better suited, but like that is also poisoning the well. What is the position editor two is in? Like editor two is a fucking editor. Their job is to edit to whoever's specifications, you know? And

0:16:56 Lydia: Yeah. April 21st, April 22nd. Yeah. Yeah,

0:17:37 Thomas: So if she has to go, or if editor two has to goes work with Blake, that's just doing their job there, you know, and it's sort of like that thing. And it's just so reminiscent of other normal workplace stuff where they're like, Hey, sorry, you got to go work with them. You know, it can can be real tough to be around her you know like it's just classic retaliation stuff why don't you read us like 140 to try to get back and that was it was hard because we ended where we were was just pages of text again that just like most of it nothing but we're going to ground ourselves back in the complaint here on paragraph 140 this

0:17:56 Lydia: It's manipulative. Yeah right. Yeah finally in April and May 2024 Lively's extortionate threats coerced Sony to allow her to create her own cut of the film. A right that is exclusively reserved for directors, that's in parentheses, at Wayfarer and Sony's expense and despite Baldoni and Wayfarer's rightful protests. Sony's reasons for acquiescing to these beyond unreasonable demands were clear. Sony told Wayfarer in no uncertain terms that Lively refused to promote the film unless her demands were met. Wayfarer, feeling increasingly cornered into agreeing to Lively's demands, attempted at least to require that Lively finally sign her engagement contract if her demands were to be met. Even this basic ask was refused and sony urged wayfarer to give in

0:19:00 Thomas: Is interesting the complaint skipped right through it but going through the timeline you get a little more context than something I was confused about out because they kept referring to, Justin keeps referring to like, oh, Blake wants time with her editor. And I kept getting confused because it was like, it seems like editor two is doing that, right? And I was like it doesn't make sense that editor two would be her editor. Well, it turns out that her editor just happened to not be available, just didn't have availability. And so then it looks like based on this that then she agreed or they agreed like, okay, you can use this editor, editor number two, who based on unredacted stuff, we can now conclude is a woman because Justin says, I am okay sending her to NYC.

0:19:37 Lydia: It's una is that her name oh

0:19:41 Thomas: And, you know, fair enough. Justin is, they're voicing like they don't want to be doing this, but they're going along with it. And that's, well, whatever, that's fine. And in the midst of all this on April 17th, I guess it says Sony Marketing and Baldoni coordinate efforts to have Baldoni attend Book Bonanza to show audiences a surprise early screening of the film. And I think that could be important later, but the timeline is, if nothing else, the timeline is in timeline order. I will give them credit that the massive exhibit seems to pretty much keep everything in order. And so these emails are in there. And I think that might be something we're setting up for later. So team discusses possibility of sending Baldoni's editor to New York since Lively's preferred editor was not available. So that's where, you know, we saw that. So based on the pronouns there, I'm OK sending her to NYC. It seems like, you Know, that editor is so.

0:20:29 Lydia: Yeah yeah so that's una flaherty

0:20:29 Thomas: So that means we know who the editor is. Do we know that? How many editors were there?

0:20:33 Lydia: Uh two Una Flaherty and Rob Sullivan so editor two is una

0:20:35 Thomas: OK, so the so the woman was like kind of being respectful and the dude was like, fuck this noise.

0:20:42 Lydia: Yeah within the text I think there have been some like news articles that people have taken a look at um like interviews with una about the editing process and it seemed like she also wasn't happy but it doesn't seem like she lets on in the text messages at least

0:20:55 Thomas: It just means she's respectful of the situation somewhat, at least. And to be fair, I mean, editor two does say, I want Blake to feel like what she's getting, what she wants. So we can move on from this need of hers.

0:21:04 Lydia: Yeah and then uh of course people who watch Deadpool and stuff know that the editor that Blake was going to be bringing in was uh Shane Reed who works on all the Deadpool

0:21:14 Thomas: And they would know that just from watching Deadpool. That's impressive. Yeah. So this is interesting. The complaint skips through this. And I think it's interesting. The timeline keeps this in. Once again, further evidence that Blake Lively does not have a stranglehold

0:21:15 Lydia: Movies yeah he works a lot with Ryan Reynolds so

0:21:31 Thomas: On this entire movie. This is interesting. Like I said, not in the complaint because we've skipped in the complaint. We've pretty much skipped to May. So that's why I'm backtracking through the timeline here to catch up. April 23rd, Jamie Heath learns that Lively asked Sony to bring in other creative collaborators into the cutting room with her. In response, a Sony executive relayed a firm message to Lively stating, this is a Wayfarer movie wayfarer has final cut and runs the process sony is an investor and distributor the sony executive hoped to reiterate that lively needed wayfarers approval for any such involvement reinforcing the boundaries of her creative role and then we see the actual text and his sony executive and jamie heath spoke to blank he will tell blake tomorrow he cannot authorize her request request re -exitorial. I don't know what exitorial would be. Editorial? Exitorial? Yeah, I don' t know. But it's a Wayfair movie. They have final cut and run process. We are only investors and releasing. Must get approval from you all. He understands. Jamie Heath says, thank you for having the conversation. I appreciate you. And with that said, I'm always open and willing to hear your thoughts if we should make another decision with any of this. Sony executive, OK, let's talk tomorrow. So then the next day, Sony executive says texted with BL shut down blank or anyone in the cutting room. She said, OK, she understood. She did say her editor avail now, tomorrow. And can blank ask if Wayfair OK to have editor come in with her and blank. Look at some stuff. She likes blank. I got so frustrated to try to keep track. I think this is the editor we said OK to before and was not available. Can I tell blank you guys are OK with this as you were before? So then we get like the rest of this conversation is really interesting because we were trying to.

0:21:42 Lydia: Yeah maybe or maybe it's like a specific term like slang kind of thing in the industry that we don't know I don't Know I know and I think and I think there's a phone call that happens in between there

0:23:24 Thomas: Yeah, it does seem like there's a phone call that happens because it's about two hours between that. Two hours after that message, it says, so I understand. Are you saying blank coming into editorial as of now is conditional on this blank phone call? And that's what I have to talk to him about. Cannot say okay to blank now.

0:23:31 Lydia: Right yeah so I think it's that they were were previously okay with shane reed coming in and now all of a sudden they're not okay with shane read coming in until they've had a phone call with I guess

0:23:52 Thomas: Yeah, we were trying to figure out these blanks. It's really interesting because the first point I was going to make is, once again, it's a thing that I've said a bunch of times where they set up that Blake has control, there's no controlling her. And then we see a conversation where, well, told Blake no, okay. You know, like that happened again. Shut down blank or anyone in the cutting room. She said, okay, she understood, right?

0:24:08 Lydia: Todd yeah yeah

0:24:15 Thomas: We have another one of those. But we're trying to find out who that is the best we can tell. We thought it was maybe Todd at first. Well, let's read through the rest of these messages and we can tell you what we mean, I guess. So that's after we think maybe a phone call because that message didn't really make sense by itself. The so I understand, are you saying? Because I came out of nowhere. Yeah, so it must be outside of that unless they cut and pasted the things in. I don't know.

0:24:35 Lydia: Because according to this text message Jamie didn't say anything so yeah yeah

0:24:44 Thomas: So Jamie, he says, Justin needs to hear the feedback from you, Sony executive. As you know, this whole thing is incredibly overwhelming and troublesome. The fact that Blake has access to blank during this process and we don't is not landing for him. Now, we can't figure out who that is. We thought it was Todd at first, but we think maybe actually, I think it might be a different Sony executive, like someone else in Sony. So continuing on. So if this ask has come from Blake through blank, and that seems like a different blank because it's longer unless it's just the way that spacing worked. I don't know.

0:25:18 Lydia: That's kind of like yeah Yeah.

0:25:19 Thomas: Now, from Blake through Blank, it's not unreasonable that we have firsthand conversations as well. That said, I heard your point and understand. I'm trying to manage both sides, putting my own position aside. I think once we three speak, he will sign off on it after hearing your thoughts, since you're requesting we don't speak to Blank. You can articulate it from Sony's perspective to him. And then Sony executive says, Blank is the lifesaver here, that she will not engage with Justin Wayfair me, I think that means Blake will not engage.

0:25:51 Thomas: We're pretty sure that's what that means. I know this is confusing. That Blake will not engage with Justin slash Wayfarer slash me, and he, we think that mean the other Sony exec maybe, that's the blank from before, and he inherited this and now has to be the one to navigate her on all this, is not his responsibility, the last thing he wants to do, but he's doing it because he thinks you have a hit movie. He does not have the bandwidth to do the same with Justin. If something specific to address, of course he will. But the play -by -play and what -ifs, dash, he doesn't have the bandwidth, dash. He's overseeing the marketing and release for eight divisions in addition to all his corporate duties. So I find this really interesting because the way we're reading it, and I think it's got to be what it is. It sounds like there's a different Sony executive that Blake is dealing with. And Blake won't deal with this Sony executive that's talking to Justin. It's almost like they each side got their own Sony executive.

0:26:47 Thomas: It sounds like what it is. And we're getting a bunch of game of telephone, of course. But what's interesting is then when Jamie is like, well, we want to talk to that other Sony executive and maybe it's just that that Sony executive is dealing more with marketing. Maybe that's all it is like. And so it's more about those specific questions. And it's interesting that this Sony consecutive is brushing them off, Being like, yeah, he doesn't doesn't have the bandwidth to do the same with Justin, which we're dealing with corporate people now with the Sony execs. And so I don't really know that we can always take what they're saying at face value. I mean, I don'T think we can take what anyone's saying at FaceValue, but like to varying degrees. But I sort of wonder if maybe Sony... Okay, what's about to start to happen, as I've kind of read on trying to figure this out here, is like Justin does get pretty much 100 % shut out eventually. And it's pretty abrupt. It's really interesting. Thing. And I'm sort of trying to piece this together. And part of me wonders if maybe Justin doesn't realize that Sony would also possibly have an incentive to want to distance from Justin. You know, like if looking at it from Sony's perspective, I know there's been this one executive that seems like they're kind of not on Justin's side, but more in with Justin a little bit. But they might also be thinking, hey, do we have like a classic Me Too thing happening where the person we've hitched this multi hundred million dollar wagon to with Justin like that's their investment Sony's investment is he going to be me too and that's rendered worthless because

0:28:23 Thomas: That's got to be to corporate people who are just again they're just bottom line people I don't it might be a total bullshit thing they're doing one way or the other but what I do believe they will always do is try to guard their bottom line so they might honestly be wanting to cut out Justin in as well and see it as safer. Actually, yeah. Imagine if you have millions of dollars invested in a movie that you think is going to make a lot of money.

0:28:47 Thomas: So let's just say you're like this precious thing we have here. And that would be, I mean, picture you're in charge of something that could be like a half a billion dollars. That's a lot OF fucking money. And you're like, all right, we know this person has had essentially me too type complaints against them. Yeah. So wouldn't you as a corporate person, again, just think bottom line for now, because we're Sony. I mean, just put everything else aside. We know that America, corporate business, bottom line, capitalism, just purely just to look at people's motivations. If I were Sony, I'd be like, I want Blake to be in charge of the movie. Like I want it to be Blake Lively presents this movie,

0:29:01 Lydia: Right and the movie is due to come out in a few months.

0:29:25 Thomas: Right? Because wouldn't you be like that's the safest way if you think there's any possibility, again, taking no like moral anything, just looking at dollars. If you think there's Any possibility that something comes out about Justin and you get a situation where people are thinking like, oh, I can't see this movie, especially if Blake's also not on the side of promoting the movie, then you're going to be like, it's way safer to have like the accuser be saying, here's the movie that's way safer for your investment. Right.

0:29:54 Lydia: Yeah no absolutely if you're putting on the hat of robot corporate protect the the shareholders at all expense that's obviously going to be the move that you make.

0:30:04 Thomas: I mean, I guess I'm saying also that from Justin's perspective, I totally get that. That's going to be shitty. Like that's going to suck for him. I mean, obviously, basically everyone ever accused of me too stuff ever thinks they did nothing wrong. Like there's almost none that ever think they did anything wrong. And I get that like from the accused perspective, from the accused person's perspective, basically everything's always going to seem unfair. That's just going to be how it is. I don't know how else to put that. If we're going to take on the idea that a person is innocent, who's accused and therefore nothing should be happening, then yeah that's always going to seem unfair you know like by that standard but given that he's been accused with quite a lot of there there in terms of Blake Lively and the lawyers and everything and Sony been involved by the way from the beginning Blake came to Sony first and said I want to do a complaint they're like ah we can't so like they know that this is legit I know that Justin and anyone who supports Justin tries to pretend that this Is a bullshit thing she's doing for power play but that's fucking nonsense no one in their right mind would think that that especially someone like Sony who got the first fucking call months ago with her saying, hey, I have a complaint. I and other people have a complain about this set.

0:31:17 Thomas: You know, like they were there for that. They heard that. And so they know they're there. And so, yeah, they're going to like it actually kind of makes sense that Sony is going to do their best to also shut out Justin. But what I keep coming back to and I said last time is Justin's not suing Sony, though, which is interesting.

0:31:35 Lydia: I know it is interesting because they would be the ones I would think that are ultimately calling these shots especially based on these text messages too.

0:31:43 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. And And so right now, it's just interesting that like this Sony executive saying, well, he doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with Justin. Like I could interpret that as there's one interpretation that I think is like, OK, they each have their Sony person and they're going to kind of bridge the gap there and just be separate, whatever. The other interpretation might be like Sony doesn't really want to have anything to do with Justin and this Sony Executive is just kind of still managing that down. You know, that's a possible reading of it. So I just find that interesting. But at the same time, this Sony executive says that it's Wayfarer's ultimate call because they own the movie and Sony is just investors, you know?

0:32:19 Lydia: Right yeah exactly.

0:32:20 Thomas: So once again, that's what it is. Blake understands that. She says, okay, she doesn't go nuclear.

0:32:27 Thomas: So we're still in the timeline because it skipped a lot of interesting stuff that I think also is going to matter for later. So that's why we're kind of going through the timeline now. The complaint has jumped to May 2nd. So, we're not going to get there yet because there's still some April stuff. All right. So April 29th, it says Heath and Wayfarer are eager to get the film back from Lively. Ask the A -list producer, who we know is Todd, whatever.

0:32:48 Lydia: Blake.

0:32:49 Thomas: Asked the A list producer to make it clear to Lively's agent that Wednesday, May 1st would be her last day in the edit. So they're trying to like put their foot down. Now we get the text. Jamie Heath, anything? A -List, dealing now. Stand by. Lively agent was just told firmly by me that Wednesday is the last day for Blake Lively, period. Sit tight. Standing by. So later that day, so that was at 11:45 a.m. Later that day 5:27 p.m., I think it is, right?

0:33:13 Lydia: Yeah that's what it looks like to me.

0:33:13 Thomas: It's a little hard to see as always. Anything new I need to know. So that's Todd without any messages in between that. So Todd had last said, told firmly, Wednesday is the last day for BL, period, sit tight. Jamie Heath says standing by. Then six hours go by and then after Jamie Heath had just said standing by, Todd says anything new I needs to know? No, I spoke to Lively's manager again. Jamie Heath, call you shortly. Exiting dentist. Okay.

0:33:31 Lydia: Yeah and then And Jamie says, call you. Yeah. Then the next day. Yeah.

0:33:41 Thomas: And then the next day it's, can you chat? Yes, sir. Give me 15. That's all we get. And then after that, it says, still unsatisfied, Lively demands another extension of her time in cutting room, pushing the deadline from May 1st to May 8th, adding to the audacity. Lively insists that Sony and Wayfair hire her personal editor, someone she had worked with previously, most notably on projects with Reynolds. Faced with this escalating situation, Wayfair considers granting the extension, but attaches a significant condition. Lively would need to sign her long overdue acting agreement. This document, which had been left unsigned for over a year, would prevent Lively from continuing to leverage her promotional participation as a bargaining tool. Wayfaire's attorneys had been tirelessly trying to secure her signature, and this moment represented a pivotal opportunity to resolve the standoff. Yeah. I mean, it's also, well, that I see is all right though. Like, yeah, that she, you didn't negotiate well with her at some point and she has the ability, because I've mentioned that from the beginning. Like why does she even have the ability to withhold promotion or whatever?

0:34:27 Lydia: So dramatic. It's like a high noon duel.

0:34:47 Thomas: Promotional participation. Why does she have that? You know, like they could have put their foot down.

0:34:47 Lydia: And are there particular circumstances in which she has that power or is it blanket protection? Like how is that exactly worded in the contract specifically?

0:35:00 Thomas: Well, and is it because they've only signed that engagement thingy or that that like initial letter of whatever that you talked about, you know, like what was in that?

0:35:09 Lydia: I mean, it sucks because we do have it now.

0:35:11 Thomas: So then we get Heath clearly communicates Wayfair's position in an email to Lively's representative, hoping to bring an end to the ongoing impasse while protecting the integrity of the production. Again, so much language around these things. It'd be interesting to just read these things without the context put on them, like to the audience. We do sometimes.

0:35:26 Lydia: Yeah. That's what I've been saying. I've been saying it to you kind of like off mic and everything, but like I just want to print out every single text and email and everything. But just like the actual like primary source documents and put them in timeline order and read it myself in that way without any characterization. I mean, obviously, I would like it without redactions to help make sense, too. Yeah. But also, I mean, like it's if we're just looking at this. Yes, it is selective. But I would like to do it for the whole universe of everything

0:35:43 Thomas: I I know, it's so selective already though. Like that's the tough part. Yeah.

0:35:57 Lydia: That's come out from this entire lawsuit and just like put a whole compendium together.

0:36:02 Thomas: Well, it's good to know that you still have more appetite for this after how much we've had to go through. Yeah, I know. That's, I think that's what motivates us on these things.

0:36:06 Lydia: I just want it to be right. Right. Right.

0:36:11 Thomas: So why don't you, I've read a lot. I know your voice is a little hoarse today. I don't, do you want to read this email here?

0:36:16 Lydia: Sure. This is from Jamie to a bevy of people on Lively's side, reps, managers and her attorney. Hi, Blank. Good speaking with you earlier. Wanted to quickly recap what we spoke about. Wayfair originally agreed to have Blake work with Blank, editor, on the movie in order to express her editorial creative vision on the dates 4 -22 to 5 -1. We have since learned of her request to continue working with her own editor from 5-2 to 5-8. We are prepared to extend that period of time with the understanding that prior to any continued work, we will receive her signed contract for the movie. Please let us know that we can agree and execute the long-form agreement, and we will have post -production set things up for the edit to proceed. Jamie.

0:36:58 Thomas: Interesting.

0:36:59 Lydia: Yeah, so the redaction of the editor that she was working with was Una, as we've been speaking about, and then her own editor is Shane Reed. That would be from the dates of 5 -2 to 5 -8.

0:37:07 Thomas: I Don't think we get resolution on the contract thing for a while. We don't seem to get that yet. So I think we can surmise that they're like blowing it off, that Lively might be blowing that off.

0:37:18 Lydia: Or at least not timely responding at this point, yeah.

0:37:20 Thomas: Yeah. And if signing the contract would remove Lively's leverage, then why would she do that?

0:37:26 Lydia: Right.

0:37:26 Thomas: Like if she has experienced this harassment and she wants to make sure the movie is how she wants it, that all makes sense.

0:37:33 Lydia: And her lawyers copied on there. So it's not like she's doing anything like literally illegal by not signing it.

0:37:38 Thomas: Well, yeah, I mean, I think you could make a case for that maybe later or something, like if Baldoni wanted to, if he wanted to see, and he kind of did, but not really. I don't know. Well, I Think I'm probably just repeating myself, so maybe I'll just go on here. You know, we didn't talk about that, like anything new I should know about from Todd. That was a weird thing.

0:37:58 Thomas: Anything new I need to know. This is sort of tea leaf reading because we have so little, but if Jamie Heath is like anything. And Todd says, dealing now, stand by. Lively's agent was just firmly told by me that Wednesday is the last day for Blake Lively, period, sit tight. And he says, and then Jamie says, staying by.

0:37:59 Lydia: It was weird. Yeah.

0:38:15 Thomas: And then five hours go by and Todd says anything new I need to know. I spoke to Lively's manager again.

0:38:20 Lydia: It's like particular resistance that he's maybe like encountering that he is surprised by And thinking like there's something that happened that maybe put up that wall, that defense from Lively's team.

0:38:27 Thomas: Yeah. Or something. Yeah, I mean, we could also surmise that maybe calls happened, like maybe when he was standing by, maybe then Todd called him after that, after he heard or something.

0:38:42 Lydia: Yeah, could be.

0:38:43 Thomas: What I think is interesting is that doesn't work. So this whole Todd saying Wednesday is the last day for BL. And I didn't even say this is capital letters, period. P -E -R -I -O -D, capital. I just think it's interesting. I don't know. Something could be going on there. Like if Todd said that and then maybe got word like, hey, yeah, no. Could Todd be confused as to why this isn't working?

0:39:05 Thomas: Like maybe there's other information or something. It's just something seems weird.

0:39:05 Lydia: Or if that's not the case, you said you were going to give us all the receipts. Why isn't there anything about Todd, you know, A -list producer, called Jamie Heath promptly at, you know, whatever time. Like, filling in the blanks there. We're just left to wonder. Yeah.

0:39:20 Thomas: Their claim that they're giving all the evidence is silly. Like it's insane. I mean, there, there's so much missing here all the time, but I don't know. I'm curious if we ever find out what, if this could be nothing, but it just seems weird for one. I don't know why they even bothered including this, but cause it's like, it's weird for him to say period, all caps. Like, it sounds like Todd's really, you know, like conveying that message. And then the very next thing is now she demands another extension.

0:39:44 Thomas: It's like huh. Okay. I think that didn't work for some reason. Yeah.

0:39:47 Lydia: Period did not work.

0:39:49 Thomas: And from Todd as well. I don't know. Yeah.

0:39:58 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:39:58 Thomas: All right. Chunk heads. We're calling it there. No, that's not good. Gavel, gavel, gavalinos. That's nicer, huh?

0:40:01 Lydia: Oof. Gavolinos is, that's cool. Have we done Gavolanos before? We must have.

0:40:09 Thomas: Lydia's high, everybody.

0:40:11 Lydia: I'm not. I just like it.

0:40:12 Thomas: Whoa. And also my hand.

0:40:14 Lydia: Double rainbow. Yeah.

0:40:15 Thomas: Yeah. Gavalenos. I'm sure we've done gavalanos.

0:40:18 Lydia: I'm sure we have, too.

0:40:18 Thomas: That's the least impressive thing. I do appreciate your enthusiasm, though.

0:40:20 Lydia: You know, it's been a while, maybe. Thank you.

0:40:23 Thomas: I'm enthusiastic, too, because we have so many chunks. We're chunk, chunking at you. We're just hurling chunks, but not barf.

0:40:29 Lydia: Maybe too many. Disgusting.

0:40:33 Thomas: Her yeah spewing chunks you might say uh

0:40:37 Lydia: It's the grossest thing we've ever come up with. And it's sticking. No, I mean, yeah. Get

0:40:39 Thomas: That's also not true and they're sticking, yeah, I get it, yeah, it's just sticky chunks no so we're calling it here for this part when we have chunks coming at you tonight Well, sorry patrons, tonight I could go out there with the chunks that I have and get you I was going into uh the glenn gary glenn

0:40:46 Lydia: Me out. Oh, boy. Yeah, I was actually going to say Alec Baldwin.

0:41:00 Thomas: Ross there you go wow find you a woman who knows when you're quoting alec baldwin from Glengarry Glen Ross which in retrospect since that guy is a conservative and it's a very like man script I kind of lament that a little

0:41:01 Lydia: Okay. Look at me. Glengarry, Glen, Ross. Also recently involved in litigation. So A rust?

0:41:17 Thomas: Wait what was that about no no no the author Alec Baldwin's not conservative The playwright, yeah, Mamet, yeah

0:41:20 Lydia: Like a murder? Oh. Oh. No, no, no. Sorry. Oh, yes. Yes. The mammoth. Mm hmm. Yeah. I don't know if he's involved in litigation. Alec Baldwin was.

0:41:31 Thomas: Yeah, I was for some reason I was waiting for you to like say what litigation he was in as though you're a litigation encyclopedia, but that I just throw out a name. Angela Lansbury. Oh no, she's dead. Just throw out random names and you're like, uh, computing, checking mental palace. Like you're, uh... What's his name with your mind palace?

0:41:52 Lydia: Well, divorce proceedings. There was probably litigation involved with that. Yes. No, no.

0:41:56 Thomas: Are you actually looking this up or are you remembering? Mamet? Yeah.

0:41:58 Lydia: I knew that because people were really yes. People were really concerned about supporting any plays on Broadway of his. But it's that through a certain period, his ex -wife gets all the proceeds, not him.

0:42:10 Thomas: So it's like you have to pick like like a night that like, okay, don't buy tickets after this night. No, it'd be funny if it was like, all right, there's a cutoff date. Everyone after that, it's like David Mamet. Yeah. After that, It all goes to, to Mamet and then nobody comes or whatever.

0:42:13 Lydia: So no. Yeah. It's a child custody situation. Yeah. Yeah.

0:42:26 Thomas: Like just assholes go. I don't know. I haven't kept up with him late. I know he's conservative, but I don'T know if he's like a Trumper. And I just don't want to look it up. Cause I don' t want to ruin more. Cause like that, that play, the movie is really good.

0:42:37 Lydia: Yeah. I will say folks on the Broadway subreddit are pretty like hardline anything Mamet. They're not interested in supporting it also.

0:42:44 Thomas: Well, we saw it on Broadway.

0:42:46 Lydia: We did. But again, but again, all the proceeds were going to his ex -wife. So yes, exactly. Feminism.

0:42:47 Thomas: It wasn't very good. Good. It was not very good. Yeah.

0:42:51 Thomas: That's, that's why we went. No, it was an interesting cast. It wasn't that good. I could talk for hours about why that wasn't good. And it should have been the cast. You look at the names. Wow.

0:43:00 Lydia: Bob Odenkirk, Kieran Culkin, Bill

0:43:03 Thomas: You're just rattling it off.

0:43:03 Lydia: Burr from the Riyadh Comedy Festival.

0:43:07 Thomas: Riyadh's own Phil. Oh man. The poor people who listened to us anyway. Yeah, Michael McKean. Oh, man. I love it. You did. Wow. I don't know how she does it.

0:43:12 Lydia: Michael mckean yeah I I named all those off the top of my head yes steel

0:43:20 Thomas: So how did we get on this? I don' t even, speaking of Steel trap can you rattle off where we started and where we're going chunks chunk system um I went into the I can get you chunks oh that's what it was patrons you're getting your chunks right now right now tonight tonight at least three chunks I would say if you're listening this when it came out they're gonna get five to six chunks within like 24 hours that's how many so it's

0:43:22 Lydia: Trap I don't know chunk system well I know dang wow it pays to be a patron you

0:43:47 Thomas: Going out it was a little it does it was weirdly you have to pay to be a patron but it does but it pays us. I have found that it pays us to be patrons.

0:43:52 Lydia: Know but also pays you in chunks dear god

0:44:00 Thomas: So, you know, this was a fun month. Our kids were home. You know why we're insane? Our kids are home for nine straight fucking days all day, all day the whole day, the whole time because of the holidays. And then we ended the last day of the month, which our life revolves around, was a Sunday. So we didn't get a moment's break and solid following Thanksgiving, nine days, including Thanksgiving with the kids home, nonstop noise and distraction, impossible to function. And yet you're getting your chunks. You're getting Your Damn Chunks. It's just going to be within like 24 hours because the kids are going to school and we're going to polish up the chunks that aren't done tomorrow.

0:44:14 Lydia: Tis the season following thanksgiving we made it yep you want your chunks

0:44:42 Thomas: Yeah, you do. Polished chunks is the way to go. I'm also excited because I'm weirdly, I'm coming back around on like enjoying going through this again. It has been a real marathon obviously but this this latest series of chunks it's no secret that we record the intros outros like after the fact and it's interesting because we get to let stuff stew a bit especially because I edit and go through it all you know again and certain things that happen I'm like damn that was a good point we made or like this was a thing that you know maybe didn't resonate as much and then sit with a little bit this massive chunk which we're subdividing into to chunks, has some really interesting stuff, including one of the biggest, I don't want to call it a self -owned because that's not like an accurate, that's what it is, a biggest telling on yourself ever. It's not until later, but within this chunk subsystem here, within the greater chunk, it has the biggest telling on themselves in their own stuff.

0:44:52 Lydia: Polished yeah to the point where you messaged me about it while you were editing and I was like shoot do we need to hop back on and like record some more because I responded in all caps and I I was like, clearly I

0:45:39 Thomas: Again. Yeah. Yeah, and yell about it for, yeah, you did.

0:45:47 Lydia: Did not get everything out

0:45:48 Thomas: It was very weird. It Was Alarming. Like it actually was, I was like, Like, is she talking to someone else?

0:45:49 Lydia: Of my system.

0:45:53 Thomas: You know, like it seemed like you went into like a different mode, but that's not like it's really bad. So I'm excited. Next up along the line here in the very next episode, we're going to be talking about did Blake demand that Baldoni couldn't even have his name anywhere near hers and the credits and that kind of thing and the trailers and the direct and the a film by all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So that'll be next. And then we'll be on our merry chunking way. So gavel up, gavel heads, gaVEL out for now. And then that's just silly. God, you've really, that's where I'm drawing the line. You've taken this too far.

0:46:12 Lydia: All the marketing assets. Get your chunking hat on. Whatever. We're retiring the chunks.

0:46:30 Thomas: Everything else was totally great and normal and you took it too far?

0:46:33 Lydia: Wow. Yeah. Story of my life.

0:46:36 Thomas: No, definitely not that. All right. We're so happy to have you listening and we'll see you next chunk. Gavel heads. GaVEL out.

0:47:05 Thomas: GaVEL 1 to GaVEL 2. How are you doing? GaVEL2.

0:47:07 Lydia: Gavel 2 is doing well. How are you doing, Gavel 1?

0:47:10 Thomas: Over and out.

0:47:11 Lydia: Oh, my God. This is obnoxious.

0:47:14 Thomas: Patrons, you're getting your chunks.