Lively v. Baldoni 47 - How Weird, Sony Also Thinks Baldoni and Heath Are the Problem

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavel in gavel heads. It's gavel gavel. I'm Thomas. That's Lydia. How you doing?

0:00:28 Lydia: Gavel Living it up. Doing well. I don't know.

0:00:33 Thomas: I've been told by our sponsors that we need to not say the C -H -U -N -K word in this episode. So we can't. Our sponsor, I was going to say our sponsor is just Lydia. That's the only sponsor we possibly could have.

0:00:41 Lydia: Good. I'm the sponsor. No, I love the C -H -U -N -K word.

0:00:52 Thomas: And it doesn't work to just, like, spell it out every time. You know, that happened with, uh, with our kids. Then they got to the point where they can now spell. Bell, oh

0:00:58 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, wait, can I tell you what happened tonight? Night. So Phoebe, our oldest, really wanted a treat. But she knows that whenever she asks for it by word, I get upset because her youngest brother, Remy, who's almost three, he constantly is eating candy. Constantly.

0:01:10 Thomas: Because Remy is he might as well. Okay, you know how, and I'm sorry to use this comparison, but you know, like, if someone was an alcoholic, like, you don't want to be, like, having drinks around them. Yeah, no, like, that's Remy with any food. Like, if you're eating, you got to eat in private, you know?

0:01:26 Lydia: Anyone care for a drink? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, he heard me open up the fridge and he goes, what are you making, mama?

0:01:34 Thomas: Because he'll go insane and just want everything you're

0:01:42 Lydia: Like from the other room. He had already had, had breakfast and he just comes running in. But tonight, Phoebe knows that I don't like it when she just asks for candy outright, because he'll hear that and then it'll just get him started. It, like, awakens the beast. Yes.

0:01:42 Thomas: Having, and somehow he just thinks that means he's getting candy. It's not, it's, this is, it's a tough thing, t

0:01:57 Lydia: Exactly, so, so she said tonight, she was like, can I have a tr eat a tr, each uh I told her no, but at least Remy didn't clue in on, he didn't, he didn't pick up on it, so it worked. Yeah. Oh

0:02:08 Thomas: -r -e. I don't even think that would work, but yeah, wow I hope people don't think we're just, like, shaming our kid for eating. I actually don't care how much anyone eats. It's a, it's that he always wants candy, and first, actually

0:02:25 Lydia: And he only has a bite of it and then he abandons

0:02:26 Thomas: That's the thing. The more important thing than even that is he will eat one bite of something, an entire thing that he opened, and then just throw it away. And And then, like, he used to sneak throwing stuff in the trash. We didn't even know. We thought he was eating. Yeah, we thought he wasn't eating this stuff. Like, he'd open, like. I don't know. A bag of, like goldfish or something. He'll eat one and then just, like throw it away. And he'll be like, I want this thing. I want that. I want to eat this thing and then with this thing, like it's insane. I can't stress enough how much this is. Like, I wouldn't mind if he, however much he wants to eat, except he's opening a different thing, a yogurt, taking a spoonful. Oh, done with that. Moving to the next thing. It's crazy.

0:02:37 Lydia: It Yeah, or in the cabinets. Yep. It's overwhelming, honestly. Yeah.

0:03:04 Lydia: And then I find a yogurt in the cabinet, in the pantry cabinet, days later that's opened and partially eaten. It's

0:03:10 Thomas: In the cabinet. Yeah, that kid.

0:03:12 Lydia: It's disgusting.

0:03:13 Thomas: So what does this have to do with Wayfair v. Lively? Well, nothing. But, you know, upon further review of the last episode, I forgot that you had an excellent call out to use your work slang that we make fun of from back when you worked for the state. Great call out, Lydia Smith, because that textbook retaliation with the two editors and him talking shit about Blake. It's funny because I really haven't seen anyone talk. I know we mentioned it at the time, but just further review again, like thinking it over. I can't think of any reason why that wouldn't count, you know, right?

Like if it counts to trash her online to everybody and it counts to trash hurt probably to the other actors, I would imagine, like why wouldn't that extend to the editor? And I also pointed this out, but I don't think I stressed it quite enough. Maybe the one editor that's going to work with her, like going to spend time with her. We didn't get like an amazingly specific answer from California employment lawyers about this, and I'm sure we'll revisit it. But it's like it is a little weird to be like, Like, what

0:03:24 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

0:04:08 Lydia: Yeah, directly.

0:04:08 Thomas: Constitutes retaliation in a work thingy like this that's so weird? You know, like a film set, not only the film set but most of the retaliation I think is alleged after the premiere and stuff. So, like, that extended universe of retaliation, how does that work exactly? I'm looking forward to finding out more about that. But I can't think of something that seems more textbook than trashing Blake and her allegations and stuff, her HR complaints, to editors, one of whom is going to go work with her imminently.

0:04:37 Thomas: Yeah, directly. It's just I haven't seen anyone talk about that.

0:04:37 Lydia: Well, Thank you. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where if we're just talking about random people gossiping and talking shit about each other, it's fine. It's whatever. I mean, that's the kind of person you are, whatever. But at work, and not just your co-workers, your boss, the director of the company essentially talking shit it to employees about another employee, that's insane. That's insane. Mm.

0:05:06 Thomas: Yeah. Well, let's see what else we can find that no one's talking about. I don't know. I mean, I feel like largely very few people are talking about this whole thing because nobody went through this whole fucking thing except what we're doing. And it's crazy. And I would like to say hello to our three listeners who are still with us through all of this.

0:05:19 Lydia: -hmm line by line.

0:05:25 Thomas: But I'm enjoying it. I'm having a great time now. I'm coming around. There's a bunch of stuff that we haven't talked about that it's just particularly hitting right now. Now, I think the message of this CH unk that you're about to hear is at a certain point, well, I mean the whole time, but at a sudden point, they, I guess, realized like, wait, as we've been typing this complaint, we've lying and no one has cared yet as we're typing it. So we can lie and lie and more. And they just say stuff. They just fucking say stuff that's not demonstrated in the thing. And I know that's been a theme, but it just keeps it feels like it keeps getting worse and worse.

0:05:43 Lydia: Baby, the Phoebe method. Yeah, or sometimes the opposite is demonstrated rated.

0:06:06 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy Well, I'm excited to get to it So why don't we take our usual break which you can avoid at patreon.com/gavelpod support the show get all this way ahead of those absolute squares over on not patreon, I mean I don't want to I don' t want to trash talk them at work, but like Let's just say they're not as cool as the patrons. They're hearing this way later than the... Yeah, exactly. Truth is the ultimate defense to harassment. Patrons are getting everything early. They are great looking. They're amazing folks, and the non-patrons are not getting things early, and I can't comment about them as people. I'll just say it doesn't help that they're not patrons.

0:06:26 Lydia: That's just facts.

0:06:49 Thomas: So anyway, all jokes aside, patreon.com/gavelpod, avoid the ads, and we will see you after this break, and we'll get back into it.

0:06:49 Lydia: Heath

0:07:04 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:07:04 Thomas: Here's an interesting thing. Why don't you read April 30th in the timeline, because I think this thing is misleading here,

0:07:11 Lydia: Is informed that Lively had told Sony Marketing that she would refuse to approve trailers, TV spots, and digital marketing assets if Baldoni's acting credit appeared alongside hers.

0:07:21 Thomas: Alongside hers. So first off, why don't we see that? To your point, we never see that. We don't see anyone telling them, hey, Blake doesn't want your acting credit alongside hers. But then what's interesting is what's said next is not that. It's a different thing. And I feel like they're just lying about what this was.

0:07:26 Lydia: Yeah. Sony

0:07:44 Thomas: But why don't you continue on?

0:07:44 Lydia: Marketing, citing Lively's contractual approval rights over her image and likeness in promotional materials.

0:07:51 Thomas: Well, hold on. Now I'm wondering, contractual approval rights, what if she hasn't signed the contract? Does that matter? What contract are we talking about? Could she have a separate contract with Sony? Maybe? Yeah.

0:07:56 Lydia: Yeah. I think there are multiple contracts. There's like the loan out agreement. There's, I think, a variety of things that they do. But yeah, it ends up conflating all of these things together. It's not specific.

0:08:07 Thomas: Yeah. But OK, I guess the point I'm making is actually I think this might be a good point. If they're trying to claim that she was manipulating things by not signing her contract with them, but Sony is saying citing Lively's contractual approval rights over her image and likeness in promotional materials. That sounds to me like she has a contractual right to that.

0:08:31 Lydia: Yeah.

0:08:31 Thomas: And it's not about avoiding signing a contract and taking advantage of some like legal loophole that that is. I think this is kind of a good point here. If Sony is saying like, hey, contractually, she's got this right. They're not, Sony's not saying, hey because she hasn't signed a contract with you we can't do anything about this if she because that's what they're, that's what the implication is.

0:08:40 Lydia: Yeah, right.

0:08:51 Lydia: If she contests this.

0:08:52 Thomas: Yeah. Like the implication is because she doesn't sign that contract. We can't really, we have no enforcement mechanism. Like if she just decides to not approve stuff we're just kind of fucked. If she decides to not promote stuff, we're fucked. But Sony marketing says, no, contractually she has approval rights over her image and likeness and promotional materials. Materials, so to me that sounds like she has that no matter what Like, there's no, she could sign, so like the signing, I don't know. Well, maybe we'll find out. There's, there's something to do with the signing of the contract.

There seems to be a reason that Heath and Wayfarer want her to do that. There must be something in there they want, but for one, maybe they're wrong about it Or I don't know, because like if Sony is under the impression, Sony's a fucking corporation, you know, I trust Sony to do business-y law stuff with more reliability, yeah, than fucking Wayfarer, these dinguses that don't know what they're doing. And if Sony Marketing, the Sony Corporation Marketing is saying, hey, she can just refuse to do this because of her contract, well, once again, that to me tells me that she has signed a contract to earn that, you know?

0:09:12 Lydia: Right. Yeah with an incredible legal team. Like, yeah. Yeah.

0:09:56 Lydia: Right. There is a contract that is in play. Yeah.

0:09:59 Thomas: Yeah, did young Lily sign a contract saying I'm able to like veto promotional stuff? You know, it's like this is a benefit of her name and image and her as a product, like she as a product, as an actress, as a whatever, as it personality is just a product herself has earned enough clout to have a contract either with wafer or Sony. It sounds like it could be with Sony marketing maybe because they're the ones marketing it. If she has earned that to say, Hey, I want this clause in my contract that I can veto kind of any sort of promotional stuff with my image at all.

0:10:07 Lydia: Mm hmm. Right? Mm hmm?

0:10:30 Thomas: Like that's a, I don't know that I feel like that's something that probably not everyone would would get. And so I guess what I'm saying is, it's looked at as every aspect of power that Lively has is kind of looked at is like illegitimate. She, like, weaseled her way into it. And I'm saying that this looks to me like this is, like, contractual power that she has because she's earned it and she's negotiated it.

0:10:34 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, they don't say anything like she's throwing a fit over this. But since she hasn't signed it, we've decided we can push back. Like they don'T they don' t say anything like that. They're taking her contract, whether or not there's ink on the paper one way or the other. They' re treating it as we have a binding contract here. Those are rights that she is afforded. So now we have A problem. We got to figure it out.

0:10:57 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

0:11:10 Thomas: And most of the time, I'm sure everybody's incentives are on the same page here. Like normally Blake wants it to sell well. Sony wants it sell well, they all they all win. I have to imagine that normally this wouldn't come up much, but I would say if I was an actor, I would want to know what, because previews can often be the most annoying fucking stupid things ever.

0:11:28 Thomas: So I kind of would love to have that like, Hey, no, this sucks. I want to make sure this is like better. So anyway, I know that's a minor thing, but I think that's kind of interesting.

0:11:18 Lydia: Right Oh, yeah, deceptive. Yeah.

0:11:37 Thomas: And once again, in their own document. So why don't you continue on though? Cause this is interesting.

0:11:41 Lydia: Sony marketing, citing Lively's contractual approval rights over her image and likeness and promotional materials, warns Heath that she could effectively block the release of almost every piece of promotional content featuring her face or name, essentially all of it. Faced with this leverage, Baldoni and Wayfarer reluctantly agreed to remove his name from the quote "before or above title" credit in trailers and related marketing cutdowns.

0:12:01 Thomas: Hmm. Before or above title. Does that sound like if Baldoni's acting credit appeared alongside hers?

0:12:10 Lydia: No.

0:12:11 Thomas: Isn't that a different thing? Like what What the fuck? I think they're just lying because credit before above title does hers appear before or above title, I guess, is what I'm asking. Having paused to do a little digging, as usual, there's a great expatriarch thread on this, and it's actually highlighting the exact paragraph we're on in the timeline. Line. And Expatriarch went in and found the trailer and it still has not only Justin Baldoni, but a film, the thing we're about to get to in a minute, the a film by credit, which I think we've also talked

0:12:12 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, it'd be "Justin Baldoni, a film," but yeah, yeah.

0:12:32 Lydia: Yep.

0:12:45 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, I think we have.

0:12:45 Thomas: About at some point, which I think it's completely should not be a film by Justin Baldini.

0:12:50 Lydia: That's Steven Spielberg level. That's like, yeah.

0:12:50 Thomas: Like that's not appropriate. Like, yeah, yeah. And I went through that's right. I went Through kind of the directors who do do that and the ones who don't. And it's pretty rare. And even some who by all rights deserve to have that be it don't do it because they think it's pretty pretentious, but like, you know, whatever. I think people could have different opinions, but when you've written and directed a movie, I feel like fine, you know? Um, but when you directed it and not written it in the book is not even, is, is by somebody else.

0:13:03 Lydia: Right. Yeah, yeah, right, it's adapted. Yeah.

0:13:17 Thomas: Like, eh, you know, I don't know. It doesn't really seem like a film by Justin Baldoni. It seems like, put it this way. If Justin Baldone didn't exist, could this film still exist? Fucking yes. If Quentin Tarantino didn't exist, could fucking Pulp Fiction exist? No. Like that's just, it is him. You know know what I mean?

0:13:24 Lydia: Yes, it's it's from his mind, right? Right. Yep.

0:13:33 Thomas: Like, yeah, like he he's totally part, like, it's a little bit weird to think of those hypotheticals, but absolutely you could see why that is a film by Quentin Tarantino. Whereas this is like, well, some other dingus would have bought the rights and then, you know, someone else could have directed it. It would have pretty much been the same.

0:13:45 Lydia: Yeah, absolutely.

0:13:49 Thomas: So anyway, that aside, not only does this preview, which we're looking at the date on the preview is May 16th. So after this April 30th thing, it still says a film buy Justin Baldoni. It still says Blake Lively, Justin Justin Baldoni together. And honestly, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to not do that. You know, like even from Blake's perspective, like she's not going to erase the fact that he directed the film, you know, Like she's going to raise that. She's not gonna raise the fact that he's the other like main character of the film. I don't know. Part of me thinks it's a little sexist to even assume that that would be something she would want. Like that's insane. I don' t know. She' s not gonna get rid of that. And so I don'T know.

0:13:55 Lydia: May 16th.

0:14:12 Lydia: Mm hmm. Right. Right.

0:14:26 Thomas: We don't see proof of this at all. We just see a claim that they requested that. And then we see the end result is that his name is still all over the fucking thing. So is he lying? And then why don't you continue reading on and we'll get to the film by thing.

0:14:40 Lydia: This concession is yet another clear example of Lively's ongoing effort to diminish Baldoni's presence and influence on the project. There is no creative or professional justification for his name to be excluded. It is purely a result of her demands.

0:14:49 Thomas: Well, pause there. I could absolutely see an investor, Sony, wanting to maybe exclude a possible... Yeah. Forget everything else. Once again, just looking at dollars and cents, he's just wrong there. If he's concluding it must be her demands because there's no reason that anyone else could want this, I would say, no, that's just incorrect. Like, objectively speaking, even if her fucking, even if you want to say her whole shit is fake, still Sony would not, Sony not knowing that and being a third party here would be like, well, this is kind of a risk to have his name attached to this thing. That's a half a billion dollar thing. Yeah. So he's just wrong there. It's skipping a bit ahead, but yeah.

0:14:58 Lydia: Tamp down. Yeah.

0:15:13 Lydia: Yeah. Like all over it. Yeah.

0:15:33 Lydia: The situation escalates further when on June 18th, 2024. 2024. A lot ahead in this time. And we're in the timeline, too. We're not even in the narrative here. Sony requests that Baldoni's film buy credit be removed from the film's poster, a move that reinforces Lively's wholesale erasure of his contributions. As a request of this nature would have no meaning to Sony, it is clearly instigated by Lively. Yeah.

0:15:58 Thomas: Once again, would it have no meaning to Sony? That's just ignorance. Like even if fucking, if, if I were in this situation, I would still recognize, well, okay. From other people's perspective, they're going to be like, yeah, this is a toxic situation. Like this is A risky situation, you know? Like, I'm not saying that he has to be happy about it, but to write a request of this nature would have no meaning to Sony, maybe

0:16:10 Lydia: Mm -hmm. Well, I'll tell you one further. I think it's beyond ignorance. I thing it's paranoia. Everything is is clearly instigated by Lively. Granted, you know, that's Brian

0:16:28 Thomas: Oh Yeah, like he's starting to see, yeah

0:16:32 Lydia: Friedman's language. But like, but I do think it probably like was seeping into like every corner of his mind. Everything that was happening was because of Blake Lively Mm

0:16:38 Thomas: Yep, yep Yeah, and you, you know, I feel like we've all been in those kind of social situations or something where it's like everything seems to get interpreted a certain way, and it's, I don't really, we saw that with earlier text threads where it's like so-and-so thinks that she's gonna use this to blah blah, and then the end result was like, oh, it was fine, you know, and it's clearly he has some circle of people, slash him as well, who have a very paranoid view of what she's going to do at all times.

0:16:49 Lydia: -hmm. Yeah. Uh -huh.

0:17:11 Thomas: Having said that, she does edge him out of this stuff quite a lot. But I think it's just dumb to say a request of this nature would have no meaning to Sony. Like, no, it absolutely would. They have a lot invested in this thing. They stand to gain a lot, and if you're a toxic person who's been accused of something, absolutely they would want to maybe get rid of your name as a film by. Like, because you're still director, still directed by. You're still an actor in it. A film by, again, is a rare thing. Yeah.

0:17:32 Lydia: Yeah. It's also like such a specific request too. It's not like removing the film by credit on all digital assets, right? Or all promotional assets, marketing assets. It's specifically the film's poster. Because again, going back to that expatriarch thread on Reddit, when you click on some of these promotional materials where it still includes a film by, the dates that they're posted are June 27th. Yeah. The trailer was, yeah, but then there's a post on Instagram that happened after this supposed request.

0:18:00 Thomas: Oh, really? Okay. Because I was going to say this trailer was before the June.

0:18:10 Lydia: For it not to be a concern about all promotional materials, specifically the poster, it's just like, I don't know. I don' t buy it.

0:18:15 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, it's silly. Yeah we'll also note we have seen no proof of this. We do get something here. So what does this email say on April 30th? I guess this is what he's been talking about maybe.

0:18:28 Lydia: This is from the Sony marketing team member. Hi, Justin. I hope this email finds you well, considering how hard you're working. I'm helping Blank tie up some loose ends as we near the launch of our trailer. I know Blank mentioned this to Jamie, but I wanted to follow up with you regarding waiving your name slash actor credit before or above title for AV assets, including trailer and related trailer assets, TV ads, and related digital marketing. Can you please confirm that you are okay for us to proceed as discussed? Please don't hesitate to let us know if you have any questions or concerns. Concerns, warmly, Blank, and

0:18:50 Thomas: Yeah so that's waiving your name actor credit before or above title.

0:19:04 Lydia: And that was April 30th, and as we've seen, none of that even happened.

0:19:07 Thomas: Yeah I'm just confused. Like I don't know what all this is.

0:19:11 Lydia: It's just like, like, the mere act of being asked to do that is so offensive.

0:19:16 Thomas: Well but I also don't know what, why is Sony asking? Like what, you know, and I don't know what that is. I don'T know, is there some way in which there's some trailers that would need that? I don' t know. That's all we get. It's nothing, by the way, nothing to do with his name alongside hers. There's, that's nowhere in the proof that we're given. Maybe it could be true, but if so, he's given us no proof of that. Once again, he just says something in the commentary, in the narrative that is not at all backed up by the evidence at all.

0:19:24 Lydia: Right. Right.

0:19:43 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, and I just checked the narrative and there's nothing in there either, so

0:19:46 Thomas: Now we haven't caught back up to the narrative yet. We're We're still, so yeah, we are. And let's, I think we should read this. This is getting to stuff that is really interesting and I'm just curious about it. So I think we should go through it. Like I said, things do escalate pretty quickly here just

0:19:48 Lydia: Yeah, I think we're just about there. So close. I think this is the point where we catch up with the narrative too. May 2nd, um, and this, this email, yeah, May 2rd. While Lively is holding the film hostage in the edit Edit Room, she is simultaneously stalling the film's marketing by refusing to approve key materials, including the trailer release. With less than three months until the film premiere, Sony becomes increasingly alarmed about the delayed rollout of the trailer, a cornerstone of the promotional campaign. In a text exchange between Heath, a Sony film executive, and a Sony marketing executive, who had just spoken with Lively, they inform Heath of Lively's still escalating demands. Demands. Lively will not approve the trailer release unless she is granted more time in the edit room with her personal editor.

Adding to the pressure, Lively made a veiled threat, implying she might, quote, change her mind about reaching out to Taylor Swift to secure the use of, quote, my tears ricochet for the trailer if her demands are not met. When Heath stands firm and refuses to acquiesce, the Sony marketing executive delivers a sharp and pointed warning, quote. You don't want to play ball. You are going to delay and greatly hurt the movie. Good luck. This stark Dark response signals that Sony, too,

0:20:04 Thomas: Before it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, she asked for another week.

0:21:06 Thomas: Ah,

0:21:06 Lydia: Was beginning to apply pressure on Wayfair. Yeah, they're in on it, but won't be named in this lawsuit.

0:21:08 Thomas: They're in on it. That Sony too has been taken over by the body snatchers.

0:21:15 Lydia: Effectively strong-arming them into compliance, the message makes it clear that the studio is growing increasingly frustrated with the situation and is prepared to hold Wayfaire accountable for any negative fallout, adding yet another layer of tension to an already fraught dynamic.

0:21:29 Thomas: So that's pretty interesting when in your own stuff, you have to admit that a third party that you're not even suing that isn't Blake Lively, Sony is not say what you want. You cannot say Sony is like part of the fucking hashtag me to Blake Lively club like they're just they're Just money people and they're they're texting you guys don't want to play ball You're going to delay and greatly hurt the movie. Good luck.

0:21:47 Lydia: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.

0:21:54 Thomas: Wow, that is... wow. And so now, as you say, we have... oh, here's what's interesting. So in the narrative, we've caught up to the narrative, and that's convenient, because the narrative contradicts the timeline, because the timeline just said that this is just her wanting more time in the edit bay, you know, another week. The narrative now says, oh no, she's extorting them to create her own cut of the film, right?

0:22:13 Lydia: Right. Right. Oh.

0:22:21 Thomas: Why don't you read 140 now that we're caught up to the narrative?

0:22:20 Lydia: Oh, finally, in April and May 2024, Lively's extortionate threats coerced Sony to allow her to create her own cut of the film, a right that is exclusively reserved for directors at Wayfair and Sony's expense. And despite Baldoni and Wayfaire's rightful protests, Sony's reasons for acquiescing to these beyond unreasonable demands were clear. Sony told Wayfairy in known certain terms that Lively refused to promote the film unless her demands were met.

0:22:44 Thomas: That's right. We did read this, but we didn't know at the time that that was contradicting their own timeline. So what do you think about the Taylor Swift stuff? I think that's kind of interesting because that seems like Blake being a massive asset, having this connection to Taylor Swift, who I'm told people care about, and And certainly Sony, certainly Sony cares about it.

0:22:50 Lydia: Right. Yeah.

0:23:01 Lydia: You're going to lose a lot of our audience. You be careful.

0:23:05 Thomas: You know, they're like, that's awesome. Let's do this. And the people holding it back, the narrative said this extorted them to create her own cut of the film. The very text we're seeing and whoever had the timeline, I think we've we've said this many times, the timeline and the lawsuit, the narrator, the complaint are like different people. But whoever has the timeline mostly, Ithink, is closer to facts because they have to they actually are dealing with the evidence that they have somewhat. Yeah.

0:23:05 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's right next to it. They don't want to look insane.

0:23:31 Thomas: Yeah. And so they're like, they're just, whoever wrote this is interpreting this text how anyone would, which is, well, okay. Blake wants more time in the edit bay. It says right here. She, of course, just reached out saying she's asking for time with blank, her editor. And this is Sony exec saying this.

0:23:46 Lydia: It's Angie, by the way.

0:23:47 Thomas: We know it was conditional on signing contract, but asking if you will reconsider so blank can release this trailer. And Blake does not change her mind. Recalling Taylor Swift, you know, re calling.

0:23:59 Lydia: Recalling. Right.

0:23:59 Thomas: Yeah, I'm going to recall her. So that, that makes it pretty clear, but anyway, I think what is interesting is this is his own document. This is very bad for him, because if all of this was as inappropriate and power-grabbing and whatever as Justin wants to say, I would think that at the very least Sony's language would be different. They'd be like, "Hey, fuck, we know, man, we know that she is, she's really trying to get a lot of, get her talons and everything, you know, but I think we need to do this in order to just, you know, let's just get through this." No, they're saying, "You guys don't want to play ball. You're going to delay and greatly hurt the movie. Good luck."

0:24:23 Lydia: Yeah, that's Josh Greenstein saying that. Pretty high up, unredacted stuff.

0:24:39 Thomas: How do you know? That was Sony marketing exec though that said that. Sony exec one is the first thing.

0:24:45 Lydia: That's Angie. Yeah. Yeah.

0:24:45 Thomas: I don't know if that's two different people. Okay. So, oh, so he's a Sony marketing exact.

0:24:49 Lydia: It says Sony marketing exec in the timeline. It just says executive two in the narrative.

0:24:54 Thomas: So that Sony exec who is different than had the first message in the timeline, it says Sony exec one and then Sony marketing sec. And in the complaint, as you point out, it Says Sony executive one and two. So there are two different People, but still the

0:25:02 Lydia: You know, I'm wondering, sorry, before we get onto that, I was wondering if that's who was interfacing with with Blake when they were talking about, oh, so-and-so has, like, eight divisions, he's overseeing for marketing in addition to corporate duties, that might be who that is. And just FYI, it is Josh Greenstein. He is a big deal. Went over to Paramount basically right after this and is pretty high up over there. And then it might have been Angie kind of like talking to Jamie being like, Josh doesn't have time for this, potentially, potentially. So

0:25:13 Thomas: Other person? Oh, yeah. Maybe.

0:25:37 Thomas: So you're saying maybe the text we read earlier, that's filling in those blanks. Could be. But point is, this is nobody who would be in Blake's corner for any particular reason other than the dollars and cents. And maybe if they have some

0:25:40 Lydia: It could be, it could, could be, not positive, but yeah.

0:25:52 Thomas: Exposure to the fact that she complained earlier, they'd be like, well, this guy is a liability, possibly. But yeah, that's someone saying, you guys don't want to play ball, you're going to delay and greatly hurt the movie, you know, like, I, I just think that if this world building that Justin had done, if that were real, I think a Sony marketing exec would be like, yeah, I know this fucking sucks, man, I don't know what to tell you, but we, we're in a position where she's gonna get Taylor Swift. I know you wanted to sign the contract, just push that and, you know, we'll see if we can get that next week or something, because this is too valuable to us. Nope, that's not what they say. Right?

0:25:52 Lydia: Right. Right.

0:26:23 Lydia: And, and not just that either, we have to believe they talked on the phone and, like, whatever conversation, whatever words were said on the phone was, like, not enough for Josh Greenstein. He was like, I'm gonna follow this up with a text, like.

0:26:29 Thomas: True. Oh. That's a good point. Yeah, I didn't even think of that. This is obviously a phone call between those two two messages. Maybe I didn't make that clear because, yeah, I'm available to talk on the phone. Call me if you're free from Jamie Heath. And then after the call, that's when we get the you guys don't want to play ball. Yeah, that person's not happy.

0:26:38 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's pissed. Yeah.

0:26:50 Thomas: Very interesting.

0:26:57 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:26:57 Thomas: All right. So now have we united the timelines here?

0:27:00 Lydia: We have, uh, no. No.

0:27:04 Thomas: No.

0:27:04 Lydia: The next paragraph jumps to May 15th is their evidence. So we, we, yeah, the editors. Yeah.

0:27:08 Thomas: Wait, what? Where? Oh, you're right. I skipped through it. Damn, I skipped too many.

0:27:13 Lydia: Okay. We got to, we got to spend some more time in the timeline.

0:27:16 Thomas: So the timeline, the narrative skips to May 15th. And this is actually, again, this is kind of important stuff. So we're going to stick with the timeline line for now. That's on May 3rd. So let's see what happens here.

0:27:26 Lydia: Faced with Lively's escalating threats, ranging from potentially delaying the film's release to outright refusing to promote it, Wayfair once again, reluctantly conceded to her demands, allowing her to continue editing with Yeah.

0:27:26 Thomas: I'm sorry, conceded to Sony's demands really as well, you know, like they, they very much also want that, hmm.

0:27:42 Lydia: Yeah. Right.

0:28:13 Lydia: Film preserving the integrity of the final product.

0:28:14 Thomas: This is interesting. So updates allowing the director sufficient time to review and incorporate her edits into his cut. Hmm. Now, the complaint said that she was demanding her own edit and release.

0:28:23 Lydia: Right. Her own cut, yeah.

0:28:28 Thomas: Well, I was saying it was was her own cut of the film.

0:28:31 Lydia: Yes, and in the narrative they're saying we understood that she would be making edits that we would incorporate into the cut of the film, which would be Justin Baldoni's cut.

0:28:33 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, So maybe later it became a different thing, but for now, yeah, it's kind of contradictory. So then the timeline we get, we just get the email that's essentially like, okay, they're saying we'll withdraw a request to sign the agreement, the contract, in order for her to have that extended edit time. Then May 6th, Baldoni and Colleen Hoover, and this is important because we set it up earlier, Baldoni was set to appear at book thingy, Book Bonanza, and And May 6th, Baldoni and Colleen Hoover host a trailer launch event at the Sony studio lot and shoot promotional content in support of the film. Trailer launch? So, wait, do we have a trailer at that point? I guess so?

0:28:59 Lydia: Yeah, yes. Bonanza.

0:29:18 Lydia: Uh, yeah, I think it was, uh, because what did I say it was? May 16th. So I think that they probably did like the trailer launch for people there and then they posted it online line following.

0:29:23 Thomas: Yeah. Hmm. Okay. Now we get, and we're still in timeline. We saw that the complaint skipped ahead to May 15th. So, timeline, we're saw on May 10th. It says, final day on which she is approved to edit the film, Lively refuses to turn over her cut to the film's director. And instead tells Sony she wants to do a, quote, friends and family screening of her cut to gather feedback and continue working on her edit. And it says this was, of course, at Wayfair and Sony's expense and not accounted for the budget. That doesn't fucking matter. It's nickels. It doesn't matter to the ultimate thing. That's that's stupid. But interesting. They are painting a picture of this escalating for confusing reasons.

0:29:43 Lydia: Right.

0:29:52 Lydia: Yeah, I think

0:30:04 Thomas: May 13th says Sony and Wayfaire do an official. Well, this must be in the complaint, too, right?

0:30:09 Lydia: It must be somewhere else.

0:30:10 Thomas: Maybe they go back. OK.

0:30:12 Lydia: Where they skip around and

0:30:13 Thomas: Okay, huh, well, that's just foreshadowing for us to know that we probably are redoing this whole fucking shit again, but we'll see, we might not need to. So May 13th, Sony and Wayfarer do an official audience test screening of Baldoni's cut. The film scores a 94 with females under 30, with female audience under 35. Why does it say males, females? That's such dated fucking language. The film's primary target audience. Both Sony and Wayfarer are ecstatic about the score. Okay, pretty good. Baldoni shares the official test audience screenings with his editor, editors on May May 15th. And that is where we've caught up to the complaint.

0:30:43 Lydia: Stuff. Yeah, so he shares these results with the editors in his little dream team chat, which the, uh, editor two, this is great. Editor one: I hope Blake got a copy. And Justin responds: no, don't think so, wouldn't matter anyways, she has her mind made up. We focus on what's best for the film. It will all all work out.

0:30:53 Thomas: They're happy about. Yeah. Hmm. Well, what does that mean? She has her mind made up. So that sounds like that he already knows. Hold on. At this point, what Does that mean she has her mine made up? Because like, where they've left us with is she's still editing, and he's still edited, right? I mean, that's interesting. It feels like here's what I'm saying. It feels Like Baldoni has not given us all the information. Last we heard, it was like, well, she's gonna keep working. And then yeah, it says continue working on her edit.

0:31:16 Lydia: Yeah. And I've got to think.

0:31:28 Lydia: Yeah, so yeah. So I guess it's right. Whatever the friends and family cut that she did before she gets feedback.

0:31:36 Thomas: Right. And so this suggests that there's been some decision, like wouldn't matter anyway, she has her mind made up. Like for all we know, they could still combine these versions. They could still like, right. They can still like take things from each other maybe. Or it's almost like when the house and the Senate have to like do reconciliation, you know, like I don't totally get it. So I feel like we're missing information here.

0:31:46 Lydia: Yeah right. Yeah yeah. Yeah, and then the next text chunk that's next to it. There's no dates on this, so I'm not sure. It seems to want us to think this happened immediately after, but I don't see any evidence of that in either the narrative or the timeline. They're identical. And it says, "Just curious if you guys have peeked at her cut and if anything has changed." Also, he spelled "peaked" P-E-A-K, sorry.

0:31:57 Thomas: Okay. Hmm. Oh yeah. Yeah. Good catch. Yeah.

0:32:22 Thomas: So, so editor two responds.

0:32:25 Lydia: I have just been told that we are not permitted to look. Haha, wow, when did that happen? As per Sony, yeah, editor too, this evening through blank. I wish they said a date.

0:32:27 Thomas: Hmm. Editor one says as per Sony editor two says this evening. Yeah, wait, yeah.

0:32:38 Lydia: I wish They were like, May, May 31st.

0:32:40 Thomas: Wait, why are there no dates? Yeah.

0:32:42 Lydia: It feels like this happened later to me.

0:32:46 Thomas: But even if not, I also, well, okay. So his, we'll just tie it out. His response.

0:32:50 Lydia: And if anything has changed,

0:32:52 Thomas: Yeah。 If anything has changed, but he responds. Wow. Okay. Then the editors and director isn't allowed to look at an actress's cut. Got it. Well, here we go. We will keep taking the high road. I don't get why. Why is editor two saying, "I have just been told that we are not permitted to look as per Sony," and editor one says, "as per something

0:33:00 Lydia: Yeah.

0:33:12 Lydia: So this feels like this is way later to me.

0:33:14 Thomas: Is, well, something's weird too, because, like, the way the business relationship seemed before, it seemed like if Sony is the investor and distributor, I would have thought that editors one and two are, like, subcontracted out by Wayfair, wouldn't you? I just feel like this is weird that all of a sudden editor one and two, why would they know they're not being permitted to look?

0:33:36 Thomas: And Baldoni seems like he's sidelined here. It's like they're working with Sony, but, but they're, but if, yeah, actually this, this would have to be, yeah. Okay. Business-wise, editors one and two would have to be through Wayfair, because Wayfaire has the final cut. We've already established that. Right? So it does not make sense that Sony would be, like, in charge of, of the editors and Baldoni is, like, sideline. I don't, I just don't, something weird has happened, don't you think? Yep.

0:33:28 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, No, I agree. I think there is a reason that we don't have dates in this screenshot and they don't cite dates anywhere in the narrative or the timeline related to this specific text message. I think it's placed there to make us think that this happened in the middle of May, as, you know, as she was working on her friends and family cut and they got these amazing audience scores. I don't think that's when this happened.

0:34:08 Thomas: Yeah.

0:34:27 Thomas: That's Interesting. Yeah, that, because it just, it's confusing. It doesn't make any sense. Like, it switches so much from those two shots side by side, and, like you said, conspicuously no dates. Yeah, that, that, that can't be when that happened. Okay.

0:34:38 Lydia: Yeah. And for Sony to be communicating via the editors to Justin.

0:34:43 Thomas: Yeah, what the hell? Yeah, what? Why would the editors have been looking on their own, you know, like, it just doesn't make make any sense. The orientation of all these things makes no sense. So then we get a weird paragraph.

0:34:45 Lydia: Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's a jack off motion paragraph.

0:34:55 Thomas: I mean, we're not going to read it, but I still believe we get patented Lydia Smith Jackoff motion paragraph, still believing that in a sane and just world, despite Lively's continued extortion, an actress would never be allowed to usurp his legal rights. His legal right as a director to create and release his cut of the film.

0:35:08 Lydia: His legal right. Right. What is legal right? I guess his contractual right, his legal right.

0:35:16 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, he assumed that Lively's edit would simply supplement his work. Yeah. Okay. I don't, but yeah, we, but we don't get, again, we don't get anything to contradict that right now. He just like, it reads like there's going to be some text or some message or something, but whatever. So it sounds like though they're taking the fact that since Lake is doing a friends and family screening of her version, maybe, maybe we're to believe that that's Sony, like endorsing that version final, final kind of thing, maybe?

0:35:23 Lydia: Thus, he kept working is what he says after that.

0:35:47 Lydia: Maybe, maybe.

0:35:47 Thomas: Is that how we're to read that? And if that's true, I wonder why. It doesn't make any sense to me. All right. So it says May 20th, essentially, Blake wants an audience scoring, which, okay, we got two different versions, whatever. More jack off motion language. In light of Lively's threat to withhold promotion of the film, as well as her barely veiled threat to end Baldoni's career with a slew of false accusations. What? Where's that?

0:36:11 Thomas: The studio HBO reluctantly agreed to do an official audience test of both versions. Again, at Wayfair and Sony's expense. Who cares? Jack off motion. This decision was made on the understanding that Lively had agreed with Sony that if Baldoni's director's cut tested higher, she would drop the matter and fully cooperate so that Baldoni can finish the film without further interference.

0:36:09 Lydia: Yeah. With no evidence.

0:36:30 Thomas: No evidence. Yeah. On the understanding. But who that Lively had agreed was Sony. Yeah, so Baldoni and Wayfaire are claiming they had the understanding that Lively had agreed with Sony that she would drop it. But we have no proof of that whatsoever.

0:36:33 Lydia: Who understood that? Yeah. I also want to jump in and this, the slew of false accusations, which they themselves admit the facts of them happened. It was just the perception is different, so, like, calling them false accusations, I think is a little much.

0:36:51 Thomas: I also, I highlight that sentence and I forgot to say why. It's funny that like from Baldoni's telling, it's like, well, you know, Sony agreed because Blake threatened to ruin my career. It's like why would Sony agree because Blake threatened to ruin your career with false. That doesn't make any sense. They don't give a shit about it. You know, like what? That's just him putting that into it all the time. Inserting himself into every single fucking calculation here.

0:37:07 Lydia: Yeah. Yep, yep. Oh yeah, well, he's the main character.

0:37:20 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. So 10 days goes by, we're at May 30th, and we've got the audience test screening of Lively's cut. And according to Baldoni, Lively's cut scored an 82 % with women under 35, 12 points lower than Baldoni's 94. Yeah.

0:37:35 Lydia: So, well. I mean, and he does provide this sheet for that, so.

0:37:37 Thomas: And it says that same evening, a senior Sony marketing executive contacted Lively to discuss the scores. Instead of honoring her original promise that we don't have proof of, and we don't know exists, Lively rescinded it, doubling down on her refusal to promote Baldoni's cut, regardless of its stronger audience performance. To make matters worse, Lively further asserted that Colleen Hoover would also refuse to promote the film unless Lively's cut was released. This claim was deeply disheartening as the longstanding relationship between Colleen Hoover, Baldoni, and Heath had been one of mutual respect, trust, and admiration. Isn't that weird?

0:37:58 Lydia: Yeah, yeah.

0:38:11 Lydia: In the span of three weeks, essentially, something happened in those three weeks that apparently turned Colleen Hoover against Justin Baldoni.

0:38:14 Thomas: Yeah. And what, well, possibly, or Colleen Hoover just doesn't like his cut of it. You know, like, like, you could read that this is a personal betrayal, but you could also read this as a, as a artistic difference, you know, like, yeah, okay, I suppose if Baldoni's version scored 94% % with whatever, and were to take that on his face, I guess, I guess you can conclude that doesn't mean his video was just absolute pile of shit or something, like his edit, but there could be artistic reasons there could be, well, I don't know, some sort of reasons that Colleen Hoover, who previously had a great relationship with Baldoni, you know, he bought the thing from her and she was, is like effusive in her praise of him and all that, but now all of a sudden out of nowhere with no other information, like the only thing, again, this is like when a friend tells you, yeah, and then out of nowhere he fired, I was fired, you know, it's like, well, what was that out of no, like, with no information all of a sudden the author is on, is, is on Lively side and is only going to support Blake Lively's cut of the film.

0:38:25 Lydia: Yeah, could be, yeah.

0:39:16 Lydia: I should clarify the reason why I interpreted it the way that I did is because when the New York Times reached out for comment for their article, they included a piece here that says, Miss Hoover had experienced frustrations with you and became upset when you told her about Miss Lively's allegations at a dinner last spring. So we know that likely did not happen before May 6th because they seemed perfectly pleasant, unless they're really good at just being super professional after a challenging conversation. But my guess is that dinner happened sometime between May 6 and May 30th.

0:39:23 Thomas: Okay.

0:39:47 Thomas: And if that's true, you could interpret it as kind of a personal thing.

0:39:50 Lydia: Or it could be both. I mean, it genuinely could be both, and

0:39:53 Thomas: It's also weird, like, if Baldoni's theory this whole time and the way he's been presenting this is that the only way Blake pulled all this off is that she got to the New York Times early and told a bunch of lies. You know, like that's a broad view of his theory. But then in that telling that is confirmed, right, by everybody, Justin is the one that had kind of first dibs on telling Colleen Hoover his version of the story, you know?

0:40:18 Lydia: She still got pissed, yeah.

0:40:19 Thomas: Yeah, and she still is on Blake's side. This is why when you look at the other subreddit, the fucking subreddit that's all about Baldoni, like any other conspiracy theory, everyone has to become in on it. Like as soon as someone's against Justin, while they're in on L Colleen Hoover's in on all this person's in on it, and it's like, or these people who are much closer to the situation than you are as a bystander who has very little information and a lot of it cherry picked has a view of the facts and is like, oh, fuck, fuck this guy, you know? Yeah.

0:40:21 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:40:48 Lydia: What's more parsimonious?

0:40:50 Thomas: And all in all, this is why I constantly come back to, I do think at the heart of this is sexism, and there's always going to be some other excuse, you're always going to have some other reason, no one's ever, no one ever says I believe this because I'm sexist, except like some extreme people, like for the most part most regular people, yeah, but to believe, oh well, calling Hoover, you know, she's a woman so she's probably going to be like, oh, she's going to buy into the Blake's bullshit because she's woman, she's like, you know, it's like it requires those sexist beliefs about women to think like, well yeah, they're going to because they're women, they're like be on each other's side over the, you know, it's like, I don't know, or. Or maybe the facts are bad for Justin. So it's just funny to get that out of nowhere, like no other information and bam.

0:40:55 Lydia: Right.

0:41:04 Lydia: In the same way with racism, right? Like, like that, that's a constant thing that we see.

0:41:28 Lydia: Yeah.

0:41:40 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:41:40 Thomas: All right, that's where we're cutting it off for this part. So much good stuff and so much fun stuff still to come. I can't wait. We still aren't at the thing that's the greatest telling on themselves. Truth be told, I actually forget what part that's in, but it's coming up. I know it's not yet.

0:41:51 Lydia: Yeah, we'll be surprised along with all the listeners, so

0:41:57 Thomas: I think it's in like maybe like not next one, but the one after that. So I think so. There's a it's a lot of chunks. There's a lot of ch

0:42:00 Lydia: Oh wow, okay. Yeah. Does see a Chunk come back next episode? Only time will tell. All

0:42:06 Thomas: Unk Uh, we'll only time will tell. We'll have to figure that out. That's, uh, my favorite dad joke that nobody fucking laughed at. It was so fucking good when they were, when your, yeah, your parents, your dad, all of a sudden we're at her parents' house, all the family. What was it? It was like they're all gone.

0:42:16 Lydia: Right, at my parents' house. No, so we were fixing a grandfather clock.

0:42:27 Thomas: I know, but I'm in the form of me telling the story. I look up and everyone's gone. I go walk over and everyone's like huddled in it.

0:42:34 Lydia: No, I called you over. I said it, you know. Yeah, because we were getting ready to turn it on. Yeah, basically to set the clock.

0:42:36 Thomas: Is that what it was? You're, you're like, "Join us, Thomas, join." And so I go, yeah, I go over to see four adults just staring into a wall because they were facing a way that I couldn't see what they were looking at. And it was the weirdest thing. I was like, it's not, not, you're not ready for like, oh, that's just going to be for people looking at a grandfather clock that you forgot or didn't realize was there. And so then, then that's not even the funny. It was kind of funny, but But that's not even the funny part, because you were doing the windy thing. Grandfather clocks, you know, give it up for grandfathers, because the clocks that those grandfathers made were complicated. And I don't know if the grandmothers were in on it or the non-binary grands were in on it, but the grandfathers knew their shit.

0:42:44 Lydia: It was our ritual, yeah.

0:42:59 Lydia: It's the grandfather clock, yeah, It's amazing.

0:43:25 Lydia: I think they just took the credit.

0:43:25 Thomas: I don't know how they did that. And so it's true. Maybe they don't even know. It's actually the grandmas that were doing all the invisible labor of tinkering away at the gears. But the way you had to set it up, you know, is a complicated thing full of pulleys and levers and gears and whatever. And then somebody, I think your dad or somebody asked, like, because after we're staring at this clock for a while and then someone's like, do you think it's working? And I said, well, only time will tell.

0:43:33 Lydia: Exactly! A lot of pulleys.

0:43:53 Thomas: Cricket, absolute cricket, crickets, even the crickets were laughing. It was you guys. No, it was nobody even acknowledged it. It was like I wasn't there.

0:44:01 Lydia: So I think the thing that was missing from your experience of this is how obnoxious it was to thread these chains for the pulley system. So I think the rest of us were just like, "God damn it, this better freaking work."

0:44:12 Thomas: I also think it's possible people didn't get it because I did. I didn't do it like I did just then when I was laughing at it. I just said it. Only time will tell. And that's a phrase people say. So maybe you didn't catch it. I don't know. But I was flabbergasted. I was like, that's the best dad joke I've ever made.

0:44:28 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Listen, I've laughed every single time you've retold this story on every podcast, so I hope that counts for

0:44:42 Thomas: It's like 14 now. I don't retell stories a whole lot. But when I'm reminded of one like that, where I've been wronged, I've been brutally wronged right in the heart.

0:44:53 Lydia: Something. Yeah, well, I hope this helps make up for that.

0:44:55 Thomas: So good. Thank you. This is it's it's the only time.