DOD238: A Step-Tom's Lament

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's something, something step -parent. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:39 Eli: Hello, Tomifer. Podcast listener, I do need to tell you the weirdest part about that intro is that Tom did stop and pause like he was writing it or figuring out what he was going to say. And then, and then the result was something, something, step -parents.

0:00:56 Thomas: To be fair, it might have been that he paused because the demon from hell was starting to grab at his leg, and he's like, ah, not now,

0:01:01 Eli: Ah, come on. You said you were on lunch.

0:01:02 Tom: You got to kick them away.

0:01:02 Thomas: Okay. Sorry, it is what it is!

0:01:05 Tom: Yeah, it's a kick, shuffle, ball step to get them away

0:01:07 Eli: Have you met my daughter? It's kind of bring your kid to work day.

0:01:12 Eli: Do you mind if she hurts a part of your body permanently forever?

0:01:17 Thomas: Just something small. Doesn't have to be, doesn't have to be like a main one, just...

0:01:18 Eli: Forever don't stop small maybe your dick yeah

0:01:23 Tom: Something small. Sure yeah it makes sense right yeah it works that works jesus christ are you guys uh well no because your kids are too young it is crazy time over here by the way because it is uh register all of the kids all at once for school time that's a fucking exciting moment we've got to register finn for his second semester at the community college donovan has it's been a year and a half only but he's actually run out of classes at the community college that he can take. So he's going to be transferring to his university nearby. So we've got to not just register Donovan, we've actually got to transfer him and get his credits transferred over and then register him at the same time that Aislinn has to register for her classes for high school, which wouldn't be that stressful except for she's like taking all honors and AP courses.

0:02:13 Tom: So that's like a whole thing. Like she's mapped out her schedule to where she'll walk out of high school with eight AP courses.

0:02:20 Thomas: Jesus.

0:02:21 Tom: Yeah. As a freshman, she's already banging at one.

0:02:20 Eli: And her college is going to take one maybe two of those credits so that's

0:02:26 Tom: If she gets a four or five on the test, most of the schools out here, I think all the schools out here with a four, five on. The test will take them all. That's good. At least. I don't know if that's the case over there in New Jersey, but

0:02:37 Eli: What's so funny to me because I'm a college advisor at the school that I work at is that a kid can be like I was a full ap diploma student I traveled to the fucking model un to take my AP World History exam from Mr. World History himself. I received a 97 on the, I corrected one of the incorrect questions on the exam and fucking Magula University will be like, not so sure about that. But you could have taken Chuckle Fuck History 101 at DD Community College slash prison jail. And they're like, fucking roll it on in, baby.

0:03:16 Thomas: Chuckle fuck history I love that one that was one of my

0:03:17 Eli: Credit for our system I'm 100 real about this for our system the community college credits just transfer over it's not even like a oh you do a thing and then you enter a code the way we do with ap people just fucking type in I took history at community college and then our university is just like you're good never darken that history doorway again

0:03:34 Thomas: Favorite which is funny because the high school ap classes are so fucking hard so it's like the couldn't be more

0:03:44 Tom: Are you talking about New Jersey or New York

0:03:47 Eli: I can only speak to my university which is the only place where I'm an advisor. I'm an adjunct everywhere else that I worked in. They don't make adjunects be advisors.

0:03:55 Tom: I will say like Haley came obviously from New York and there's like the whole system out there to seamlessly transfer credits from the community college system into the university system that does not exist in Illinois in Illinois Illinois, it is a fucking hodgepodge, helter -skelter, non -system system like a lot of things here where every college and every university decides what and whether or not they will accept which classes at which community college. So it's a fucking transfer mess. It's an absolute disaster. And when you go to talk to the advisors, they're like, yeah, I got a job advising students, so I don't really have any advice for you.

0:04:34 Tom: And you're like what is that? Yeah, I can take some classes and maybe it'll transfer over maybe they won't I don't know register and we'll see yeah it's

0:04:34 Thomas: Opposite my advice is you should get this job it's great I don't do anything I I don't know anything or help anyone.

0:04:46 Tom: Been a goddamn train wreck disaster like it and I'll just say the names because fuck them at lewis university and I want to fucking shame them at Lewis University the first woman that we spoke to who's like pretty high up there on their food chain she gave us a list of classes for donovan and then the next person we talked to who is one level higher because we got frustrated with the other lady for being non -specific so I moved that up a notch and she's like oh yeah here's a list of class and some of the classes donovan took just don't do anything they're just like yeah that was nothing you just wasted that was money and time just spent doing nothing so it's just the the transfer experience has been a fucking mess an absolute fucking mess and I did not expect this because 25 or 30 years ago when I went to school it was super easy I was just like I have some classes and they're like, neat. That satisfies all of our requirements. Welcome. And I was like, cool, that worked. And now it's, it's a fucking train wreck. It's an absolute train wreck

0:05:43 Eli: No, it's a nightmare. I took all the online courses because I didn't want to be that advisor. And so I have discovered the curse of competency. The other side, here's a little peek behind the curtain from the advisor side, which is you have the students who did all the work. And when you can finally type in those codes, oh, these students who have been trying for three years to get their codes transferred and I can just be like oh here look I pushed a button and it's done I I mean truly truly I've never been anyone's hero more but you also get the other side which is the psychotic student who says a lie so openly that your brain goes well you can't be lying you must be telling the truth and so you panic and you're like oh my god I'm not serving this kid let me call because we have a hotline in our university we call the hotline and some woman like wakes up out of a asleep like an emt and like let me see if I can transfer the credits and the three times that has happened this semester it's just been a kid straight up having no fucking idea what he's talking

0:06:44 Tom: I wish we had a hotline.

0:06:44 Eli: About just being like no but I get to take that class for 12 credits and I'm like oh okay let me check and they're like no he doesn't get to do that and i'M LIKE HEY THEY SAID YOU DON'T GET TO DO THAT AND HE'S LIKE DANG AND I'M LIKE WHAT DO YOU MEAN FUCKING DANG

0:06:57 Tom: I hope we're doing this show when your kids are going to college. I really do, because this is an experience I'm having now where

0:07:05 Eli: I hope you catch on

0:07:08 Tom: Where, like, what I've learned is, well, I'm so fucking old, I guess, is what I have learned. Because I graduated from college in 2000. It's been 25 fucking years since I've been in college. And it's been 29 years since I started college. First of all, none of my experiences are relevant at all. Like, we didn't even have online.

0:07:12 Thomas: Rough.

0:07:31 Tom: Like, online wasn't even a thing. So and also I've discovered I don't fucking remember anything all the little like minutiae and Haley went to school much more recently than I did so she's like oh like you got to tell Finn for example to change his major and I'm like I didn't have a major when I was in community college and she looked at me like I was crazy like she's Like, of course you did. And I'm Like, I don' think I did.

0:07:32 Eli: Fire yeah no mm -hmm

0:07:54 Tom: I don think I d. But then also I don remember because if it wasn't important if it was just a box I checked on a form one time in 1996 it's like I like I've got this experience I'm like I don't know if these things in my own life happened because they happened so long ago I've effectively lived an entire other life since then like it's just you know it's it's like did you fill out that box 30 years ago I'm like I don' t maybe

0:07:54 Eli: I think so yeah yeah between how long you've been alive and how much trauma has driven out of Thomas's brain I would say like one out of 11 conversations I'll be like am I right fellas the peanut butter and you're both like who are you remember

0:08:31 Thomas: Yeah. It's just like nothing going on in our brains. No.

0:08:35 Eli: When you read the Bible

0:08:37 Thomas: No, I don's. I don don't. Was that for Tom or was that for me? Tom, did you read the Bible? Fucking loser. Boring. Gross.

0:08:40 Eli: It was for all of us

0:08:44 Tom: It's so bad oh lord no I would never even interview somebody that read the

0:08:52 Thomas: Gross it is pretty nuts when someone will be like oh just listened through thomas and the bible and be like that is embarrassing for them but also for me because like imagine if in any other context if someone was like just randomly forget podcaster if someone's like hey I just listened to a bunch of recordings of you from 15 years ago wouldn't that be the creepiest weirdest thing be like like that's

0:09:15 Eli: Feel bad for when people have listened to the backlog because I was so full of hope and so I imagine that they are now comparing in their head this husk of a gentleman and they're like hey I just finished listening to you to the bible and you're like

0:09:19 Thomas: Weird yeah yeah

0:09:30 Tom: Bible yeah cecil and I will get emails sometimes because we've been doing this for so long where someone will find the show and then they'll be like I'm gonna listen to the whole back catalog and they're like it's so interesting to listen and like watch you guys die a little inside in real time and you're like you guys were so stupid and naive no

0:09:44 Thomas: Dropbox

0:09:45 Eli: Hello podcast listeners you want a fucking trip go back back and listen to my favorite episode of everyone's a critic the godfather episode which is just a 82 it's on dropbox

0:09:58 Tom: You can't even find that episode we're

0:09:58 Eli: You can find it on drop box it is an 82 minute long fight between four and five year old cecil and tom about whether or not godfather is a good movie it's the fucking best

0:10:07 Tom: So young I loved

0:10:12 Thomas: Okay well it's obviously a good movie what are you talking about like why would that even be a fucking anyway yeah funny

0:10:15 Eli: It's a great movie

0:10:18 Tom: Doing that show because I just don't like movies so I got to always be the contrarian like yeah it wasn't any good I didn't enjoy that at

0:10:25 Thomas: Thing is I hate fucking mobster movies but that is the good movie you know what I mean like come on crazy no

0:10:30 Eli: Me that's a good movie that's a good one I think it's a great but gentlemen do you know the only thing worse than people who don't enjoy goodfellas

0:10:37 Thomas: The Godfather I don't like good films.

0:10:37 Eli: Why godfather that's right why it's the auto ads yes the auto ads interrupting your podcasting experience much like time has done to our fragile minds and souls but you can make it all go away over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dads where for as little as a dollar you'll get a commercial free version of every single show plus bonus episodes monthly bonus episodes we do AMAs, behind the scenes stuff we did a quiz at the very start of the show we've done a movie review all sorts of stuff there but you can only get it at patreon .com forward slash dear old dad's rip into it keeping the tension

0:11:16 Tom: All all right

0:11:19 Thomas: Confusing. Good job.

0:11:25 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:11:27 Tom: So I I had some thoughts I wanted to share with you guys and see where you guys are at.

0:11:31 Thomas: About the film The Godfather. It insists upon itself.

0:11:33 Eli: Alive it's

0:11:34 Tom: I bet that movie is so good. Tell you what, I watched it 20 years ago. I should probably put it back in and see if it's any good now.

0:11:40 Thomas: Put it back in.

0:11:41 Tom: But look, it's been... Dipped it in once. I didn't... It was fine.

0:11:46 Thomas: Pop it in the old VCR.

0:11:48 Tom: As I mentioned before, it was registration time. I filled out the FAFSA form, the Federal Student Aid form for Donovan. And it really got me to thinking a lot about how insane it is to be in the position of being a step -parent and being a step -parents fucking insane for like an enormous number of reasons. It's just a bizarre position sometimes to find yourself in structurally. But when you fill out a FAFSA form for a kid, I have to put in all of my income. So I have to upload or give permission for them to go fetch my income tax returns. And as I was doing it, I did. I was like, yeah, of course, no problem. Like, here you go. Here's my income tax information or whatever. And I hit the little fucking fucking authorized button. But then I got to thinking about it because when you're a step parent, you have no rights like legally, unless you adopt your kids, which like in my case, I can't adopt them. So unless you adapt your kids as a step parent, you have No rights to your step kids, like none at all.

0:12:46 Tom: You have no right whatsoever to your step kids. But you have this huge amount of responsibility to those kids, even like financial financial responsibility so in the case of the fafsa I send all of my stuff in and then if we take out student loans it will be because like they're going to evaluate my income as the stepdad and I will have right it's fucking crazy right this is a kid that the law says isn't mine according to the law that's not my kid but the law also says yeah but if there's a student loan like you're kind on the hook for it too. And whether he qualifies for that loan or not is based on your income as the step -parent, right? It gets even crazier. My step -kids are under my medical insurance. So I insure my step -kids. So then when I take a kid to the doctor, I'm the financially responsible party because it's my insurance. If you get an insurance, like a doctor's bill, it doesn't go to your minor child, right. It goes to you because you're the policy holder, which means you have the financial responsibility so you have this like enormous weight of responsibility like structural responsibility right like legal financial responsibility but like if hayley died tomorrow their dad could say cool they're never seeing you again they live with me now and I'm moving back to new york now I don't think that would happen and the kids like donovan is old enough like now where he's an adult. So like he could make decisions and Aislinn is technically 14. So she like could go to court and her voice would be heard. It may not be what happens. So there's like some caveats there, but they're not my caveats. They're not My rights at all, because legally I have literally no rights to these kids. All I have though, is a crazy amount of responsibility with

0:12:46 Thomas: What the fuck? That's nuts.

0:14:37 Eli: Bad

0:14:37 Tom: None of the rights. And I just think that's such an insane position when you're a step parent. And I think I think it's also like kind of indicative also of that tension, that weird tension that exists when you are a stepparent where you have these kind of like competing forces around like kind of what your role is and like how that responsibility works and where that responsibility and like that autonomy lies. Eyes. It's just a strange position to be in where you have to sort of balance out, hey, you know, am I in charge of this? Am I taking your lead on this? Is it like our thing together? Like, what if there's a problem? And it's a strange, strange position. I know you guys have never had step -parents, right? You guys have ever been, you've never had a step -parent or step - parent figure in your lives right yeah

0:15:26 Eli: Right and I also imagine that trying to have that negotiation could not be more fraught to go to your spouse's ex as a family and go, so I think we can all agree that the parenting is transferred to me here. Do you agree with that? I hope so that we can sign some I quit paperwork. But more importantly, Tom, have you done that that hard work to figure out just how much Haley's ex is asking for in monster energy drink cans in order to let you. I assume, I don't know if he's giving you an exchange rate or if he is going to let you open with an offer.

0:15:45 Tom: Right yeah you know it's funny because like on an individual basis I actually don't think that like let's say hayley died tomorrow this is a terrible conversation but like if something happened to hayley tomorrow yeah god all I know that answer is bad luck eli I like I don't know the

0:16:16 Eli: How'd she die, Tom? To be fair, it's your bad luck.

0:16:24 Tom: Specifics but fucking bad luck yeah hers isn't so good either these days

0:16:29 Eli: Shouldn't have come to take your kid to work day. Now there were two sets of demons. Yeah. It's on her.

0:16:30 Tom: Yeah right god damn it I think he would not take the kids away I think you would I genuinely think you could recognize like okay in the kids best interest they have a bond with me they live here full time I've been caretaking them full time now for almost a decade so I doubt that he would be like peace I'm out you know and he's built a life here too but he could and that's the weird space right it's

0:16:53 Eli: Yeah, not only could Could he, the default is that he could. And if you kept them, it's kidnapping, right? It's not, it'S not just like, well, he could apply to the court and he'd have a strong case. He could show up with a U -Haul truck, toss your kids inside like Wile E.

0:17:00 Tom: Like yes right

0:17:11 Eli: Coyote, and then drive away. And the cops would be like, sounds like the law to me.

0:17:08 Tom: Yeah right well and here's something else that's fucking bonkers right like with my kids finn and amen after all these years I finally have custody of those kids and they are finally in a position where I think they're in a fucking a thousand percent better environment day to day right it's not even I just I don't even think it's close at every level and if tomorrow I died to your pointy life tomorrow I lied hayley can't continue raising them here they would just by order of fucking operation like at least amen finn can do what he wants because he's 19 so finn would stay here but like by order of operation amen would just be like well fucking I guess I I go live over here again now and that's insane we just we just got custody like we just moved him over here but like god forbid anything ever happens to me and I get struck by fucking a lightning bus or whatever is gonna finally take me out one

0:18:12 Eli: Lightning bus. It's pretty heavy on the betting pool at this point, Tom, just so you know, we've, there's a lot of money on lightning, but I just, I want you to know that me and Thomas don't have to podcast for a while if lightning bus is the one that happens yeah no

0:18:23 Tom: Day lightning bus is

0:18:24 Thomas: Not the lightning bus that you just use to wake up. Like a worse one. I guess you're saying we do

0:18:28 Tom: It right yeah different

0:18:28 Eli: No no no no malfunctioning shock watch that's obviously the favorite um strangely heath has the most money on that one he really um

0:18:31 Tom: I feel unsurprised I actually feel unsubprised by that

0:18:38 Thomas: Need to start a Tom death pool, which thing's going to get them. I don't know. I think it's gonna be something totally out of left field.

0:18:43 Eli: Right I think it would make this show cheerier too right because it'd be like a it'd been like a dear old dad slash fantasy football podcast right and you know right every

0:18:51 Thomas: Finally.

0:18:54 Tom: Yeah what finally does him in oh somehow his neck electrocuted him that's interesting we didn't think that that would have enough

0:19:03 Eli: Time they hear me in the intro they're like oh is this the week is this the weak

0:19:07 Thomas: Whatever finally does it will for sure say you're released.

0:19:11 Eli: You're really genie you're free

0:19:11 Thomas: Now you're free. You're free, free time.

0:19:14 Eli: Tom's just mopping in heaven don't really know what to do up here stupid continual consciousness is a bad concept bad concept I still fall asleep when I try to read up here and

0:19:24 Thomas: He's like, yeah, he's like fingers crossed. No afterlife fingers crossed, no afterlife fingers crossed. No after all afterlife. Fuck. God damn it.

0:19:30 Tom: Charge go go god shit it's not even better it's

0:19:33 Eli: It's one of the complicated ones like the buddha one where there's hot floors what do you mean everyone stands around me in a circle and gives me soup this is fucking weird

0:19:43 Thomas: Wait,

0:19:49 Tom: Just actually sounds kind of nice what kind of soup is that sounds great like yeah

0:19:50 Eli: That's true that's the islamic hell that's islamical is the hot soup circle yeah it's in the korean

0:19:55 Thomas: What? Hot soup circle.

0:19:54 Tom: Wait what you just get hot soup

0:19:58 Eli: Hot soup cycle hot soup circuit it's very hot soup it's an unimpleasantly I assume it's too hot but it is

0:20:02 Thomas: It's too, too hot. Okay.

0:20:04 Tom: Well can you blow on it to cool it down or just have to drink it hot okay because I feel like

0:20:07 Eli: Doesn't say that's my plan if I go to the majority religions hell or just saltine it right you crunch up the saltines in the bag and then you put the oh yeah but then you get burned by the spoon

0:20:16 Tom: Well just keep the spoon in there like a heat sink for a little while and then it's fine yeah no you pull the spoon out let it rest and then put it back in it's a heat sink you just got to move it back and forth that's true that's just another waiting just I'm just shortening the timeline here. I'm shortening the timeline.

0:20:25 Eli: Well now you're just waiting and getting you just waiting shortening that exactly

0:20:37 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:20:38 Eli: So I mean I guess my question is sort of like what safeguards have you put in place for your family around that like is that something you've had to discuss with the kids is that Something you plan to discuss for the kids I especially assume given you know the the custody switch between you and your ex like that's a conversation that's kind of important to have because the the step -parent thing right you can be like oh think about how many imagine dragon concerts you'll miss and he'll be like no you're right like like there's there's something to that but like the default of your ex is that something that your family has had a conversation about

0:21:11 Tom: Because the other crazy part is like, I'm not, like if I, if I fucking got hit by the lightning bus tomorrow, yeah, bring me the lightning boss.

0:21:18 Thomas: Willing.

0:21:19 Eli: Okay so now twitter is saying that you're kind of waiting the odds on lightning bus and they're shutting down the betting exchange I hope

0:21:25 Thomas: Yeah. Tom's manipulating the betting market.

0:21:28 Eli: You're happy sure would love to go for a walk on on the frozen lake come on come on

0:21:32 Thomas: Get honest yeah

0:21:34 Tom: You know, Haley's not health wise in a position to raise Amon without my being there. And also like my ex, I think would be very obstructionist to the idea of like building a contingency plan that was reasonable on that so I don't even think that's a conversation that I it's not even meaningfully a conversation that even if haley were in perfect health it's a it's not a conversation I could meaningfully have

0:21:59 Eli: You had a hard enough time getting a tangency plan let alone a contingency plan

0:22:02 Tom: Yeah right yeah which is part of the weirdness about being a step parent if you try to secure a reasonable plan or what you think are like Like, hey, I'd like to have some some rights or I'd like to Have something here whether or not you can formalize that is based entirely on the good graces of somebody that you as a family may not have the same. You may not Have a good relationship with you may not be aligned at all. You might be like on total opposite ends of the ideological spectrum. There might be bad blood there like there's like a lot of like weirdness and you're just like, hey I know I've spent like a decade building this like meaningful relationship with you know these children and I'd sure like to not have that disappear overnight can we please I just all I have is just your goodwill that's what I have is your good will and good intentions which you might not have for me maybe the other party doesn't have goodwill and good intensions for me which is fucking nuts

0:22:56 Eli: Yeah well and almost definitionally it feels like you're going to predispose people to that situation right because look there are certainly some divorced couples who just sort of realize like ah we shouldn't be married but like let's work this out and I know a few of those and it's great we have a one of our like friends of kids friends friends is a very, very sweet, very on the same page, divorced couple. Now it did help that they turned gay. I think simultaneously, I

0:23:24 Thomas: That's cheating that's not fair yeah

0:23:25 Tom: That is just stacking the

0:23:30 Eli: Think, and I'm going to use their current pronouns. So forgive me. Cause this is going to sound like I'm creating a puzzle box. I Think she shot a baby into her and they were like, ah, nah, this isn't for us, but it was too late. Damn it. It was too light.

0:23:42 Tom: Deck to give credit where it's due I do think that Haley's ex would not begrudge me time and like I think that potentially Aislinn would still live here I think That's a real possibility but what's so weird is that it's just a possibility and at the same time I'm filling out this form and it's like let's see if Donovan gets any you know fucking student aid and the government's like well you're pretty much his dad so uh let's look at your income

0:24:08 Eli: You're his dad.

0:24:07 Thomas: I don't get that part like let's say you you do that you got all these loans and then whatever happens bio dad takes him like are you on the fucking hook for that just like oh yeah well naturally you wanted to pay for tuition for someone.

0:24:17 Tom: They're my loans yeah I signed for him yeah right

0:24:25 Thomas: So that makes sense.

0:24:25 Tom: It's fucking wild

0:24:25 Eli: Let me know if you lose a scholarship or something, kiddo.

0:24:28 Thomas: What do you, you should at least get another degree. You know, you should get something. I don't know.

0:24:32 Eli: Yeah. Oh, there's a movie, right? A comedy where a guy's kid dies, but the loans are already paid for, so he pretends to be his

0:24:39 Thomas: So he goes to college.

0:24:40 Tom: Man

0:24:40 Eli: Son and goes to college.

0:24:42 Tom: And like to the medical stuff like because we all know the medical system in this country is so severely broken right so every it's what oh

0:24:48 Eli: It's always worked out for me. Yeah, it seems weird. Have you tried blaming yourself?

0:24:48 Thomas: It's been fine. Yeah. I think it's, I have no complaints. And

0:24:54 Tom: Yeah so like you can have like we have there's an agreement like in our case but every case is different so like there's an agreement in our case that like the kids bio dad will pay a certain percentage of their medical bills right but they're still my medical bills so if they don't go paid they go to collections and hurt my you know like they're my collections notices right like they're my medical bill so you're sort of like well you should do the thing and like he's done it so like I'm not shitting on him but it's again it's that tenuousness right where everything is based on sort of like, well, everybody should just behave in these reasonable ways. And it's, if you don't guess who eats shit is the step parent.

0:25:33 Thomas: It's so weird. Cause almost never does that happen. You're kind of in the exception. Like nobody's ever reasonable in these situations often. Right. I mean, it's like very contentious.

0:25:43 Tom: I don't know what those percentages are. I, you know, if he didn't pay, for example, my agreement when, when I had non full -time custody is I had to pay 50 % of the medical bills, right? If I didn't do that, then my ex could take me to court and I'd have to pay them. Plus I'd Have to pay fees and penalties and all this stuff, But we should have to go to court and it'd be like a whole fucking thing. A mechanism. That's what. Yeah, exactly. Right. Right, right. Yeah.

0:26:03 Thomas: Yeah, but that's super easy to do. You can just go right into court, Or waltz right in.

0:26:06 Eli: It's great. Yeah, no, he's just doing a thing. Your voice sounds the same after you've done it. Your memory is intact. Act it's totally fine this is a chill cash money thing you remember reading the bible and on

0:26:16 Thomas: Normal stuff.

0:26:16 Tom: That it's exactly it. Like because like that's the thing that people are like, oh, well, it's in our settlement agreement. It's like, yeah, but your settlement agreement doesn't self -enforce whatever your marital settle agreement says and whatever your custodial arrangements say. It doesn't zelf enforce you. If there's a discrepancy, it has to get adjudicated at the court level. Right. And then that costs everybody thousands of dollars to do.

0:26:43 Eli: Top of that if it's something that's not monetary there's very rarely unless it involves abuse there's sehr rarely like a consequence for the misbehaving party right so like right you know wag their finger at you but like I so a great example of this is we have a listener who I know very well who has custody of her son and her ex is supposed to come do these like visitations and whatever and do these things they plan them and he's a piece of shit so he just doesn't do them right he

0:26:53 Tom: Well, they sometimes will shake their finger at you. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

0:27:11 Eli: Fucking like fucking will smith doing a big monologue at the end of the show just doesn'T show up for him or bails early on stuff drops the kid off without warning early all this fucking horrible shit right and she has taken him to court over this multiple times and pretty much the only thing the court can do is be like well we're gonna take away your ability to do that and he's like no duh and they're like okay that's fucking it like it's fucking bizarre so much of that court stuff is so bizarre and inhumane and look I do empathize because I think trying to systemize the process of divorce is a losing proposition right it's like hey uh craig we were just looking Looking at the law books, how do you think we should handle it when two people stop loving each other? And let me finish, at the state level, how Do you think that should be handled at the state level?

0:28:02 Tom: Well, yeah, like, like without going into the specifics, there was an event that took place where I called my attorney when I didn't have full time custody of the kids. I called my attorney. I'm like, hey, this thing happened. And he is like, look, I could get you in front of a judge tomorrow for an emergency hearing.

0:28:18 Eli: Reggie?

0:28:19 Tom: But what is likely to happen is the judge is going to say, stop doing that. That's it. And then everything is going to be bad times. And that will cost a ton of money. Now, things that are contentious will be more contentious. Right. And I'm like, but this is bad and we should stop. He's like, yep. So that's what I mean by this. Like your marital settlement agreement doesn't self -reinforce. So somebody just doesn't pay a bill. You've got to look at it and say, well, they owe me $300, but it's gonna cost me a thousand dollars to get an attorney to take him to court and then like are we still squeezing blood from stones and so that's why so many people find themselves in a position with like ah my fucking x owes me you know xyz money and like it's like yeah well because fucking you're not a collection agency you're a person so there's really not like a an easy ability to squeeze that out of people so with the step parent thing it's Like even if I had an arrangement if that arrangement were violated I'd have to enforce it myself

0:29:17 Tom: At my own expense to try to get like something done and then whether or not it got you know reinforced or not is is up to the fucking whims of the family court on the day that you happen to show up and again at the same time I am the responsible party I pick Aislinn up from school and take you know I sign sign her out when I take her to school and I drive her to the orthodontist and I sign her in and I pay the orthodox bill and I talk to the fucking orthodonist about you know put your goddamn rubber bands in like I'm I do all of the things with all of those responsibilities and at the same time you're like but I have literally no rights and that's a crazy position to be in it's just an absolutely wild position to be in and I can't believe that I'm filling out I fill out this FAFSA form and they're like yeah we're gonna look at your income and it's like why and a part of me was like how fucking dare you consider my for real like how fucking dare you consider my income for kids to say like yeah you make too much money so we're not gonna give your kid a fucking grant or a loan or whatever it is or you're not gonna qualify for anything needs -based because like you make x amount of money and it'S like yeah I sure do but you guys have said that's not my

0:30:34 Eli: Mm -hum.

0:30:34 Tom: Kid so like if if you want to fuck me on the money side can I have some rights that would be

0:30:40 Thomas: You disown your kid for tax purposes or something? You know, like, as far as the IRS is concerned, he's a little shit.

0:30:42 Eli: Mm -hu -hu. Mm -ha -ha.

0:30:45 Thomas: I don't know. Nothing to do with them.

0:30:42 Tom: Awesome if

0:30:53 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:30:54 Tom: Hayley and I hadn't gotten married if we were just cohabitating it wouldn't be the case but it's because we got married that and we filed jointly and because we filed jointly our income is essentially smushed together for the purposes of this and it's like well that's some bullshit

0:31:09 Eli: I believe that's the legal term.

0:31:11 Tom: Smush together I don't know what else to say about it except for that it's just like being a stepparent already involves so much sort of like conscious decision making and compromising you're always in this position where you're trying especially in the beginning when you sort of join a family you're try to decide what your role is going

0:31:31 Eli: Who the sexiest kid is.

0:31:31 Tom: To be fuck fuck you try to navigate like how are you going to build your family because You're not doing it organically in the same way, so you're doing it in this really intentional way where there's already established relationships and we're not building everything from the ground up. You're already trying to build all of these connections with people that are not necessarily babies brand new and then manage other relationships with these other competing interests with the other parents. So you're trying to navigate all of that stuff and like how involved do you want to be how involved will they let you be what happens when there's a decision that has to be made and you know the biological parent and the step parent disagree on how something should go forward does the biological parent just automatically have more weight in that decision there's a lot of complicated stuff that takes place there and then you throw in there and it's like ok we gotta wrestle with all that and actually these are not legally your

0:32:24 Eli: Course right

0:32:35 Tom: Kids but they're definitely your bills

0:32:37 Eli: And that's been the interesting thing to sort of uh you know peek behind the curtain slightly I feel like I've used that already on this show but like one of the really interesting and I would say wonderful things to watch over the time that we've known each other the decade or so that we have known each is like I was there when you and hayley were first dating I was there when you guys were like just starting to I got them together in my live show yes that's important thank you for pointing that out it's important I'm the reason that they have anything and I am the source of their love which is the very center of their worlds but like I remember you combining your lives and figuring that out and like what a slow and careful and thoughtful process that's been and what a wonderful process that's ben like we've even gotten to sort of demarcate a little bit of that here You're on just on dads where we've talked about like you becoming a bigger and bigger part of your kids lives and us witnessing these milestones. And none of that is reflected legally. Right.

0:32:59 Thomas: Famously, you got them together at your live show. Uh -huh. Yeah.

0:33:34 Eli: You're still you're still kind of just the boyfriend in Chicago, legally speaking.

0:33:39 Tom: Right right it's fucking insane and I thought when I was thinking about this too I thought back to my stepdad so when I lived with my mom I had a stepfather and I had uh two stepbrothers and two stepsisters and when I wasn't first grade I know I told this story before a long long time ago, but like when I was in first grade, I came home from school one day and my mom had a suitcase for me by the front door. And she said, you're going to live with your dad. You're going to Chicago today and you're going to live with your dad and it was not a great day. It was a very shocking day for me as a, as a first grader. It was a lot.

0:34:14 Eli: Inconvenient. That's what his voice turned that way. By the way, he had a he had an enormous. He was like, hey, mom, what's going on? She was like you can go live with your dad. And you were like, oh, OK. If you insist no

0:34:32 Tom: So, and so that, that That afternoon, I got on an airplane from Tampa, Florida, and I flew into Chicago and I never saw any of my step siblings or my stepfather. I saw my step father one other time, but like I never saw any of myself siblings again. I don't ever know. Like I didn't find out what happened to them until maybe five or six years ago, like how their lives turned out. Not good, by the way. Well, I know. Shocking, shocking.

0:34:56 Thomas: Weird. Huh.

0:34:55 Eli: Way with your mom at the wheel nurture

0:34:59 Tom: That's the thing is like now we were all set about that whole family didn't exist anymore. So I had this family where I woke up.

0:35:05 Thomas: Oh, she sold it for scraps. She kind of like

0:35:07 Eli: Yeah that's the monkey's name monkey's name is scraps

0:35:11 Thomas: Steve Mnookin with

0:35:12 Tom: I should have been more clear. My mom and my stepfather didn't have any kids together. So he had some kids from prior relationships. Yeah. He had four kids from prior marriages or relationships or whatever. I don't really know much about his history, so I don't really know exactly how those connections were, but he had four kids and then my mom had two, my brother and I. So they didn't didn't have any kids together but like I had brothers and sisters right that lived in my house and that I went I had a dad my stepdad Gino like I woke up with and I loved him and I gave him hugs and I waited for him to come home from work at night and ran downstairs and said I'm so glad you're home I gave my hug and then literally one day I didn't and I never had them again I never saw them again because that's how step works like if the parents get weird if the adults in that situation get weird you just overnight don't have any of that family anymore if

0:35:12 Thomas: Sears. Yeah.

0:35:18 Eli: He found yeah

0:36:02 Tom: People get shitty. That's fucking crazy

0:36:06 Eli: Because here's the thing right with very rare exception the chances that your significant other's ex rules very low right because if they if they were a great co-parent and a great partner they probably wouldn't be your partner's ex unless you both change genders or something like that right unless there's something that

0:36:27 Thomas: Or your current partner is the one who actually sucks real bad.

0:36:29 Eli: Happened yeah your current partner is the one who saw I think about that all the time which is that like there is a significant percentage of my exes that I know for a fact and I would and I want to say this very clearly from my heart should side with so there's I just have you think about I don't know if that's true of you guys but for me like if my wife ever runs into any of my exes they're gonna be like what a piece of shit and she's gonna be like yeah he got him you're not

0:37:00 Thomas: We did a whole episode on this. That's when Tom famously can't see his exes. That's what we found then.

0:37:05 Eli: Wrong that's right that's why Tom can't see his exes all right gentlemen before we go I just found out that albert einstein was a real person I always thought he was a theoretical physicist.

0:37:08 Clip: DEAR OLD DAD

0:37:29 Thomas: I'm going to keep in the times you messed it up. So that mess up mess up a bad pun Like 14 times You're like okay now I laugh That's so great

0:37:31 Eli: Jesus fucking Christ. You piece of shit. We hate it. How dare you.

0:37:46 Thomas: Tell another one Make it a make up for it Let's do it. Sorry

0:37:49 Eli: No, I fucking savage these. I'm using fucking cards from a board game a friend brought me. Like I'm running out of supplies.

0:38:45 Thomas: It is what it is

0:38:48 Tom: And I'll just say the names because fuck them

0:38:51 Eli: That's the Islamic hell is the hot soup circle.

0:38:54 Thomas: As far as the IRS is concerned he's a little shit

0:38:57 Eli: Sure would love to go for a walk on the frozen lake.