DOD214: Just Trying to Help

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's just trying to help. I'm Tom Curry. I am joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:39 Thomas: That's a good one. I like that tie -in to what we're going to talk about today. It was good delivery, too.

0:00:44 Tom: Just trying to help.

0:00:44 Thomas: I thought you really got in character on that one.

0:00:45 Tom: Just, yeah, you know, just, you know what? That's because I can feel, I just, like, I feel that in the body. You're just like, I'm fucking just trying to help! That's all I'm trying to do.

0:00:45 Eli: No, it was good.

0:00:49 Thomas: Yeah. Is this coming from... Yeah, level with us, Tom. Oh, boy.

0:00:57 Tom: This isn't for me. I'm just trying to help

0:01:00 Eli: It's so fun when you try to help and everybody's like, you didn't do a good enough job at the thing you were trying to do. And you're like, yeah, that's on me.

0:01:13 Tom: Yeah, dude, I get nothing out of this. No matter how this resolves. The problem isn't for me. The solution isn't for me, but I'm trying to do the work to try to help.

0:01:21 Thomas: Yeah, totally. And slightly, I think, related but not exactly that is lately I've had this desire. I wish... You know what we need is like a fast -acting, temporary, undisputable truth serum where it's like you voluntarily could take it. Cause sometimes I find myself just wanting to be like, look, I know that a lot of times in life, people are trying to tell you something for their own benefit or for their, they're trying to give you advice. It's like skewed toward that. I do not give a fuck. I'm just trying to help. Like I'm literally, I want to swear on a stack of Bibles. Yeah. Yeah. I promise you, this is not me trying to insult you or trying to just like do anything like that. I'm juste saying, maybe if you didn't scream all the time or whatever it is, it's like, But it's like, I wish I just want to

0:01:49 Eli: Look at Daddy. Daddy's drinking the truth serum. See? Peas are good for you. See? Lydia.

0:02:05 Thomas: Be able, and with adults too, yeah. And with adults, too, it's, like, I might be wrong. Like, don't get me wrong. I could entirely be wrong about my view. But I wish there was some way to just be, like. I wish, I could communicate how much I promise you I'm just trying to tell you what I think and it's not some fucking battle. Do you have that?

0:02:08 Eli: Can I tell you, the not being on the social internet internet has so transformed that for me because it becomes your instinct. Oh, see, I found that happen on the internet all the time.

0:02:28 Thomas: I'm talking about just in life. I don't do that on the internet at all. I'm, talking about in everyday life.

0:02:35 Thomas: Oh, okay. Yeah, I don' t even try that level of sincerity on the, yeah,

0:02:38 Eli: Any kind of communication, I remember because I was so baffled by it, which was like anytime I ever tried to use a metaphor in a conversation on the internet, it was a lost cause instantly. Like I never successfully used a single metaphor while trying to convince someone of something or convey my opinion to someone the entire time I was on the social internet but when I meet people in person I mean maybe it's just because I'm bitter now but like everybody's just so obviously gonna do what they're gonna do that I I barely even bother at this point anymore right like because I have a lot of younger friends and they're like I don't know man she said that like maybe I could date her sister while she's out of the country do you think that's a good idea and I'm like no but you're gonna do it anyways and then you're gonna call me in two months crying about it I feel defeated at the start

0:03:31 Tom: It's like, are you just trying to get me to validate your bad decision before you make it? Because I don't want to be a part of that. I don'T want to be any part of THAT at all. You're doing it anyhow. I can tell from your undertone, you're dug in.

0:03:41 Thomas: I think we're all talking about or maybe just me is talking about like slightly different things that are kind of all the same. But for mine lately, and that's fine. But like for mine, lately, it's people that I swear are like, it would be so much better if you could just be open. Like, I don't know what it is. Like some people just cannot fucking open up at all. And I don'T know if they're too scared of a judgment or whatever. It's like, I DON'T There are situations where I'm like, I can't give a meaningful response to you if the thing you're saying isn't real. You know what I mean?

0:04:09 Tom: Right.

0:04:09 Thomas: It's like, what do we just like?

0:04:10 Eli: I don't actually

0:04:12 Tom: Well, just, I'll tell you too, like just on a very practical level, like a kid's story, like the kids are all of an age now where they go in their rooms, they shut the door and they lock the door. Like they're just, they just, that's it. And they just live behind a locked door. And I don't care, like lock your door.

0:04:28 Tom: I don'T want to walk in on you, whatever you need privacy for, that'S yours. That'S great.

0:04:23 Eli: No doors in this

0:04:27 Thomas: It's their farting corner.

0:04:33 Tom: What they can't figure out is that the farting corner, the fartING corner, THE FARTING CORNER. Oh my God, we're gonna play some beanie boos and fart. But like, what I can't get them to understand is I can hear through the fucking door.

0:04:31 Eli: House skronking

0:04:34 Thomas: Sorry, that's a Tom callback. That's the farting corner. Nice.

0:04:46 Tom: Like we have solid doors. We don't have

0:04:49 Thomas: I got to get those.

0:04:49 Tom: Hollow corridors, solid doors, so I can hear through. So like, I'll go and I'll be like, Hey, and I'm just trying to help, right? Like I am not doing any of this for me. I get nothing out of any of it.

0:04:57 Thomas: Sorry, are you giving pointers on the thing they're doing? Never mind. Never mind, never mind.

0:04:59 Tom: No, I'm like, hey, you got, I'm trying to wake you up for the thing that you have to do. You know, like I don't, I have to goes on whether you do this thing or not like it's fine it's literally not for me right it's for you like hey I'm just trying to help you out trying to wake you up trying to remind you of something

0:05:02 Thomas: Hey, I've got a good website for you. Oh, okay. Sorry.

0:05:16 Tom: I said I was coming and you're like I don't need that like I don't mean that at all

0:05:21 Thomas: Never mind Yeah. Hmm.

0:05:25 Eli: Like I'm so done with my mom and dad thing maybe I'm I'm sensitive to it cause I'm a parent now, but like watching a tween absolutely roll their eyes in the most rage and disgust you've ever seen because their mom wants them to checks notes, get into the car is fucking insane to me.

0:05:46 Tom: It's so frustrating because they'll like they'll evidently have answered me but they'll have answered me you know at probably a tone of voice or a volume of voice that like does not carry through a solid door and then we've done this a hundred times right so it's not like the first time and then so like I knock again or I ask again or whatever it is and then I get the huge attitude and I'm like wait a minute I'm here to help you if this thing doesn't happen it doesn't affect me at all I think that all the time it's like I am just doing a thing to serve you this is not for me I get nothing

0:06:18 Thomas: So I'm saying the truth serum.

0:06:18 Tom: Out of this I get Nothing why am I working so hard to get to your laundry

0:06:21 Thomas: Hey, I'm popping a dose. Watch me do it. I'm bobbing this dose of truth serum, you know that everything I say right now is true. And I'm just Oh, look, truth serum I'm Just trying to get you to fucking Yeah,

0:06:29 Eli: You're permanently on that. You're a permanently on the truth serum Thomas as someone.

0:06:32 Thomas: That's that's true. That's true I'm like in fucking mad Matt and the new mad max with the blood bag like I've like the truth Or someone does that to me. I am the truth theorem if I'm the bloodbag for them like max

0:06:38 Eli: Yes, exactly right. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, we need to, we need, we need you to get you some anti -truth serum.

0:06:44 Tom: That's it yeah

0:06:45 Thomas: Oh no I've just volunteered myself to be a really fucking blood

0:06:49 Eli: That's what we need you to... We need some anti... We put me in a blood bag into your veins, and then you...

0:06:50 Thomas: Bag yeah I'll tell you it would be helpful sometimes to be

0:06:56 Eli: A lot of... Are you kidding?

0:06:56 Thomas: Like boy I wish I could lie I wish I yeah

0:06:57 Tom: Just just lie a little

0:06:59 Eli: Someone's saying a stupid idea to you, and you could just pop a little of me into your vein and be like, Well, different strokes for different folks, I guess.

0:07:04 Tom: That is a good idea

0:07:01 Thomas: Yeah I'm like just clutching like I'm turning into mr jekyll or whatever I'm I'm like, yeah, good idea.

0:07:09 Eli: How come you always plug Eli in when we talk? No big deal.

0:07:10 Tom: Yeah god I wish

0:07:17 Thomas: Why do you have mutton chops right now that grew all of a sudden? Yes, that's a good idea that you're saying.

0:07:20 Eli: Are you losing your hair? Yeah, sorry, it's Eli's hair. Eli's blood.

0:07:27 Thomas: It'll come back. It'll comes back.

0:07:29 Eli: But gentlemen, do you know the only thing worse than an ungrateful world that doesn't appreciate the sweet, pure honesty of Tana Smith? Smith. Well, it's the auto ads. Interrupting your podcasting experience, but you can make it all go away baby. Over at Lodi's Parachuting School.

0:07:45 Thomas: That's, that is, if you don't want it, there's two options. Lodi's Parachuting School.

0:07:45 Eli: Lodi's Parachuting School. Survive or your money back. Or you can go to patreon.com/dear-old-dads where for as little as a dollar you get a commercial free version of every single show. Little monthly bonus episodes. All sorts of good stuff. Check it out at patreon. Com forward slash Dear Old Dads, as they say about the parachutes at Lodi's Parachuting School, rip into it.

0:08:18 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:08:20 Tom: Right so this is an email that we got um we're gonna go through here this email is from what david

0:08:26 Eli: Wait a second. Tom, are you telling me that people can email us for advice and practical reminiscences over at thedadsatdearoldads.com?

0:08:33 Thomas: Or

0:08:35 Tom: I am telling you that but what if they email us and they don't want us to read their email, Eli.

0:08:41 Thomas: Then don't email us

0:08:41 Eli: Well, then we will throw it in the garbage.

0:08:44 Tom: That's exactly right. We don't care. Don't email us if you don't want us to read it. That's not for us. We do nothing.

0:08:52 Eli: thedadsatdearoldads.com, just for when you want your questions read on the show.

0:08:57 Tom: All right. So here's one from David. David says, hey, dads, I have a really tough scenario I've been navigating for the last year. Here's the shortest summary I can provide. Please keep in mind as you read this story that the women included are all adults. I'm David, 34 -year -old middle child with an older and younger brother. In July of 24, my 38 -year -old older brother, Matt, and his 32 -year old wife, Annie, had their son, a beautiful baby boy.

0:09:19 Thomas: Oof I'm already lost, sorry

0:09:22 Eli: Wait can I use chat gpt to help me with my homework on

0:09:23 Thomas: Yeah, yeah I was gonna say, this goes down in my mind As people, yeah, there's people Somewhere, that's what I got so far

0:09:25 Tom: Can you chart this? I need a chart. My brother's wife's mom, Christy, yep, I know, I knew. It's what is a gossip who tends to constantly start unnecessary drama about people behind their back.

0:09:33 Thomas: Nope, can't Just kidding Okay Okay.

0:09:42 Tom: She would look up my mom's posts on facebook then communicate back to the wife saying things like I saw your mom and brothers were out to the lake why weren't you two

0:09:41 Eli: It classic

0:09:41 Thomas: Fucking hate this. Fuck off, dude. Out of my life instantly. No way.

0:09:55 Eli: Chrissy okay hey I think that trigger might be a little itchy there t -dog

0:09:56 Thomas: Gone. Oh, sorry. No, no. Oh.

0:10:00 Tom: There it's just a little

0:10:01 Eli: Talk to

0:10:01 Thomas: I thought you were going to say, give me some of your blood, Eli. I was like, no, they're gone.

0:10:04 Tom: Bit thomas I fucking see you on that it's like no I fucking that happens once

0:10:06 Thomas: No. Fuck that. Get a hobby. Yeah. That's stirring shit for no,

0:10:09 Eli: Me about a facebook post you're dead to me

0:10:10 Tom: No it's the why weren'T you there I'm fucking stirring shit

0:10:16 Thomas: That's all the causing problems that I think that you should go to jail for that. Good.

0:10:19 Tom: Yeah so after several years of this my mom janelle unfriended the other mom on facebook to try to stop drama from coming up in his life with his wife christy he got mad at Janelle, complained to Annie.

0:10:31 Eli: Shit

0:10:26 Thomas: Well done. Who gives a a shit.

0:10:33 Eli: Obviously you're cutting off my source of goss I'm on team chrissie here because I fucking love goss

0:10:35 Thomas: Why, why even telling me this? Who cares? Yeah.

0:10:40 Tom: And then Annie threatened to not let my mom be a part of her grandchild's life.

0:10:40 Thomas: Who the fuck's Annie? Sorry. Was that something someone already told me? Who's Annie.

0:10:47 Tom: Yeah, Annie. Yeah. That was, that was in the first sentence or the second sentence. So Annie is, yeah. Annie is Matt's wife. So Andy is the, so

0:10:50 Thomas: Oh God damn it. Okay. And I'm not, I can't, I know I have it up, but just for the listener, who's also as stupid as me, I'm just making, cause they don't get to see it.

0:11:00 Tom: Andy threatened to not let me be a friend of her mom on Facebook. Yep. I know.

0:11:07 Thomas: Trying. I'm trying.

0:11:07 Tom: After an extensive fight where my mom and the wife were taking snipes at each other through my older brother, he called me for advice And I, thinking that these were adults, gave him advice that he should bring them together into a room, talk things through, and reconcile. Well, he followed that advice and invited my mom out to his house where they talked. They talked and fought, and Annie, the wife, said some of the meanest stuff I've ever heard from anyone to a family member, even if they are a mother -in -law. And from there, my brother's wife and my mom ceased speaking, causing a major rift within the family. And I last saw my brother at...

0:11:38 Thomas: I think that went well then.

0:11:39 Tom: I don't see the problem. I last saw my brother at Christmas, and the only contact my mom has had with Matthew in 2025 was a brief phone call on Mother's Day. After months of little to no contact, which just sounds like the normal amount of contact in my...

0:11:52 Thomas: Normal. Yeah. Okay so everything's great. Everything's, so far, is there an issue? Why are they emailing us they just want to say hi

0:11:56 Tom: Yeah, that seems normal, yeah.

0:11:57 Eli: I feel like you guys got the word problem wrong and you're thinking the mom is a different character in the story than she is

0:11:59 Thomas: Oh wait really who's a hot damn it okay

0:12:03 Eli: Yeah you guys think the mom that they're talking about right now is chrissy who you don't like but this is his mom who's not chrissie the facebook

0:12:08 Thomas: Oh oh damn it yeah I know I both yes and I also got it wrong no Eli's right like I I was going with that joke like that's fine but also I got it right I got wrong so thank you Eli I still don't get it but

0:12:12 Eli: Gossip this is the mom who was preventing the snooping by unfriending on

0:12:15 Tom: No, I'm just laughing because I see my brother only on Christmas, and that's fine, we're not even mad at each other, everything's fine. It's just, once a year is an appropriate amount of time to see your brother. My mom will not tolerate being in the same room with Annie and Annie has more or less forbidden my mom from ever seeing her grandchild and will not let Matt visit my mom now in June of 25 my mom has been hoping for a reconciliation with my brother and to be a part of his life she texted me the content of a letter she intends to send to my brother essentially saying it's okay you need to focus on your family it sucks you had to cut me out of your life but I get it and I'll deal with it and now she is constantly texting me asking how to handle it and I don't know what to say So my actual questions are, one, was it the right thing to do to suggest that these adults come together in a room to talk through the challenges they were discussing, or did I inadvertently cause the separation of my family by suggesting that the two women talk through things? Two, how do I react to my mom's persistent messaging, asking me if she should cut my brother out of her life and send this emotional letter? I personally don't think sending this type of letter is a good thing to do, but I also don't feel like I have the right to tell her not to send it. And finally, is it it right that she's seeking my guidance on whether to send an estrangement letter to my older brother is it right did I give her any advice at all about this letter so those are the three questions david's got um I think we should tackle

0:12:20 Eli: Facebook yeah

0:12:31 Thomas: You'll catch me up later I'm sure yeah yeah yeah

0:13:43 Tom: Them in order so to remind you the first one was it the right thing to do to suggest that everybody come together into a room and talk things out or did they inadvertently cause this family drama by suggesting the two women talk through things this

0:13:55 Thomas: I don't want to I won't take too much time with how dumb I am And I'm not actually dumb. It's just my things I can't process. If this were like a test, an SAT or whatever, it would take me probably 35 minutes to work through just what even the people were and the answers were.

0:14:09 Eli: Do it I'll do it I'll walk you through the the relationship you need a relationship summary okay so david's brother married an asshole. Yeah. Asshole's mom liked to snoop on Facebook to David's mom and be like, why weren't you at the Lake's house? So David's the listener. David's a listener who wrote us the thing.

0:14:14 Thomas: Here we go. Okay, David. What is David's mom to David? Yeah, but if his brother, I'm already lost.

0:14:32 Eli: David has a brother. David as a brother who married an assholes mom. They're not related to her.

0:14:34 Thomas: David's brother, his mom, asshole. So that's what's getting me is the asshole's mom is talking to their daughter's husband's mom is that no fucking god damn it I'm not doing a bit like I'm genuinely this bad at

0:14:45 Eli: No, no, no. No. So assholes. Mom. Yeah, assholes Mom is looking on Facebook book and she's like oh I saw they went to the link why weren't you there and so david's mom david and matt's shared mom the one who ends up getting cut out of the family and all the bad shit happens to she unfriends this woman on facebook because she's causing a bunch of drama but because david married an asshole annie that's the asshole and he's like you ain't never coming back to my house no more so matt who's a fucking idiot because matt hey matt bring it in I'm gonna gonna tell you why this is your fault you know annie's an asshole everyone's got an annie in their life hey how you doing she don't look at me like that and from now on ain't nobody ever gonna look at be like that right we we have this

0:14:56 Thomas: This yep yep yep okay voices are helping the voices are helping

0:15:32 Eli: Piece we have piece of shit in our lives and everyone has a matt who goes well why don't we all just work it out with cecil boston lady voice I bet annie is gonna respond really well no she's the wall punching white men of women and you knew it it when you put them in the room and so your mom your poor mom her fucking baby is married to this banshee and so she gets in her honda civic she drives 45 minutes across the country missing trucks and trying to listen to podcasts and shit then she gets there and fucking cecil boston lady voice is like you don't ever talk that way to my mother you don'T EVER DO THAT and she's like okay well you can't actually treat me that way I'm a human with dignity and she'S like YOU AIN'T never see your grandbaby and david your brother is a fucking cuck he's a ballless

0:15:32 Tom: This is helpful yeah nothing wrong with the civic though it's a good

0:16:22 Thomas: Only

0:16:22 Eli: Cuck he's sitting there oh I wish you wouldn't yell at my mom oh gosh golly hon I wish you'd stop punching holes in the wall and stop yelling at my mum fuck annie fuck annIE fuck your brother tell your mom to send a letter that says fuck you you're out of the will that's what you should do date matt that's what you shouldn't fucking do right

0:16:40 Tom: Car

0:16:40 Thomas: Problem is I think you corrected me but I'm looking through and I I think I was right. So the person who's talking shit, it's a mom talking to their daughter's husband's mom. Yeah. So that's what I said. And he said, no. So I got, I got confused. So like I was trying to figure out who is stirring drama with whom. And to me, it is so weird. Is that a thing that mothers in law? Well, they're not even in laws, I guess. It's like, yeah. Uh -huh. Oh, I know. I was just rolling back to the original reason that

0:16:50 Eli: That's annie's mom so when mom cut annie mom off on facebook annie's mom complained to annie about it oh

0:17:15 Thomas: That happened. So So that's, that's the brother's wife's mom sucks. That's the person who's a gossip trap and, but okay.

0:17:21 Eli: And brother's wife and brother's wife mom both suck

0:17:25 Thomas: And then the brother, his wife, mom is communicating to the brother. His mom. That's what's, that's what crazy to me. So that'd be like, if my, okay. Oh, here we go. This'll help. That's if Lydia's mom. Yes. Okay.

0:17:35 Tom: It'd be like if your mom and lydia's mom were were

0:17:38 Thomas: That's where, but that's when I asked Eli, he said, no, that's why I was fine. Okay. So, so that must've just been a slip up. Okay.

0:17:38 Eli: Talk to your mom yeah

0:17:38 Tom: In a pissing match yeah yeah no yeah it's it's yeah

0:17:43 Thomas: So that like if Lydia, his mom was trash talking my mom or something or whatever. And it would be like this is,

0:17:47 Eli: Or just called her and was like hey I saw they were at the lake house why weren't you there yeah

0:17:47 Tom: Which like

0:17:50 Thomas: Yeah so that sucks that unambiguously sucks

0:17:51 Tom: Let me ask the the people with more normal relationships so I guess not you you, Thomas. But like, Eli, like, I mean, like my dad has not got any relationship with like Haley's parents. Is that a thing where like in -laws are friends with each other?

0:18:06 Eli: Oh yeah my my mom and anna's parents talk all the

0:18:09 Tom: Like, really?

0:18:10 Thomas: My mom's friendly with with Lydia's parents but Lydia's parents are also great so

0:18:10 Eli: Time yeah we they share pictures back and forth they text when when cool stuff happens for the the families they're in the family threads and that doesn't count the extended family threads that has like everybody in them when everyone piles in whenever something good happens for someone yeah it's it's at least for us it's very

0:18:30 Thomas: Tom you know what's gonna blow your mind let me tell you something Tom I'm pretty sure and I'm not sure if this is true Lydia will tell me when she edits this I think Lydia's dad helped my little sister move once and

0:18:40 Eli: Common see you have it

0:18:41 Thomas: I was like what it was like in LA or something I've heard something I swear to god she'll tell me but it's like I guess in normal normal people things. Other people like help each other's in -law family extended. I don't know. I don' understand.

0:18:54 Tom: What?

0:18:54 Thomas: It's part of it is just that Lydia's dad is great. And she, he, he just loves being helpful. You know, like he's, he's one of those great people that just like helps people out.

0:18:53 Eli: All the time

0:19:00 Tom: I don't think that it's just because our families are nowhere near each other. Like, you know, Haley, his family is like her, her dad's in New York. Her mom's in North Carolina. My dad's here. But, like I think if they were all next door to each other, they would never talk. Like I really do. Like, I can't like, you're talking about like a family thread. Like we've not, I've, we've never had that.

0:19:20 Eli: Yeah neighbor won't trim their bushes that's my wife neighbor won'T trim their

0:19:24 Tom: We'll trim the Bush.

0:19:23 Thomas: Yeah, that would be me. Yeah that'd be my family.

0:19:25 Tom: Like We don't have like a Family Text thread. We have no such thing as a group message with our family on it.

0:19:32 Thomas: Oh man. You know, what's funny is sometimes my siblings and I start one or have one and it's actually great because we all have the same, you know, kind of humor and references to my crazy dad and all that. But then we just forget that it exists for like two years and then there'll be a message and like oh yeah we used to talk yeah yeah so christy got mad at janelle complained to

0:19:48 Tom: Yeah. We've never, I recognize that people have this. I just didn't realize that the in -laws were connected. So I'm going to go back to the first question. Now that, now that we know who everybody but he is was it the right thing to do to suggest that the adults come together in a room to talk through the challenges that they were discussing or did david inadvertently cause the separation of the family by suggesting the women talk through things so let me let me

0:19:57 Thomas: Annie sure yeah hold on I I'm so sorry I do need to get the who's the conflict because eli was right that was mixed up so christie I'm reading it here christy Got Mad at Janelle so gossip got mad at other mom, like across the marriage mom, complained to Gossip's daughter. Gossip daughter, then yeah, yeah, I'm seeing that, I think now, yep. Gossips daughter threatened to not like other mom be a part, oh, that's fucked up. Damn. I'm here, I am like three light years behind you all.

0:20:20 Eli: Bushers yeah asshole yeah thank you thanks for coming on board yeah I love word problems yeah cut her out of her life cut herout of her grandkids life won't let the kids see him and then matt matt you know you did it wrong which is the answer to your question matt you tried to bring this this fucking wolverine into a room with your mom and your mom couldn't make up with her oh is david the listener oh david okay matt's the cuck okay sorry so david you did wrong because you knew that she was a

0:20:38 Thomas: Jesus Christ, really? That's bullshit. Because of that? You cuck. That's a cuck, right? Oh no, the other guy's a cock.

0:20:54 Tom: No matt didn't do that david did yeah david is the listener yeah matt's the brother

0:20:56 Thomas: Wait, no, hold on, hold on, Dave, yeah. Older brother, oh, Dave is the listener. Matt's the cuck, yeah, so, yeah!

0:21:05 Tom: What no I don't think so I don't I disagree

0:21:06 Thomas: Invited my mom out to, so who talked to, who did he invite to talk to whom, is what

0:21:10 Eli: Wolverine asshole and his mom

0:21:10 Thomas: I'm, oh it was, I thought it was the, um, oh oh, is it Annie, or is it the two moms? No, it's Annie.

0:21:17 Tom: No I I disagree with you entirely I think it's entirely reasonable if there's drama in the family to be like, all right, you guys are fucking grownups, get in a room and hash it out. And if grownups can't get in the room and Hash it out, it's not on you. That's never on you like if adult people cannot get in room and has out their disagree. Look, it it's not going to get resolved by them not talking that wasn't working. There is some possibility, albeit slim that it may get resolved. By them talking, but like suggesting that people who are adults and should be able to handle themselves as adults, try to work shit out.

0:21:30 Eli: Yes oh I disagree

0:21:51 Tom: Yeah, man, man? What's the alternative? Do nothing?

0:21:53 Eli: The alternative is that you know you gaslight and manipulate the people around you according to their needs and then you fix it through a series of long cons yeah because that's look here's what I'm saying david and I'm sorry to to be the one speaking truth bombs here but if you had arranged a series of shenanigans right if you would like gotten annie something that she had really wanted and then been like oh no this is for my mom she was saying the other day how much she loves you then annie who's a fucking idiot and easy to manipulate would be like she don't got me this bracelet from class and you'd be like yeah she did she really likes you she said that the next season of love island is actually like really important really important I'm always saying that you can't just be like well we're we're all adults. No, we're not. I've met three adults and that two of them

0:21:57 Thomas: Nah. Each according to his need, and if, are on the show.

0:22:42 Eli: Were president Obama. Everybody needs their ego stroked and they need to be manipulated and they need to couched and they needs to be handled and they need to channeled through the appropriate means. There are like six people in the world. Right.

0:22:59 Thomas: Occasionally Eli forgets who I am and tries to do some of this to me. And I just have shut down and power down and don't even, yeah, no, I know. It's just occasionally you've been like, maybe

0:23:01 Tom: That's insane.

0:23:04 Eli: Well, I don't have to do it. That's the nice thing.

0:23:08 Tom: Eli,

0:23:08 Thomas: You were a hard day's gaslighting other people. And it like kind of rubs off a little bit of our conversation.

0:23:13 Tom: Don't stop gaslighting me. I like it.

0:23:13 Eli: It's a hard work.

0:23:13 Thomas: I'm like, I don't, I Don't need any of that. I don'T need any.

0:23:15 Eli: You're welcome, Tom. You are welcome.

0:23:15 Tom: I appreciate it. I appreciate I want to be petted

0:23:19 Thomas: Oh, there's another kind of gaslightING Eli does that is successful, but not this kind. He has to do The gaslighting that works on me is the like, actually, you suck and everyone hates you.

0:23:28 Eli: You can't do pull -ups.

0:23:28 Thomas: It has to be that kind. Yeah. It can't be the like. Oh, hey, I was just thinking about the sharks. The other. No, that's not. It's not going to work.

0:23:38 Eli: You don't care about sharks, not even the animal, let alone the hockey team.

0:23:40 Thomas: They don't care about the hockey team. But yeah.

0:23:43 Tom: Annie's

0:23:50 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:23:52 Thomas: So I see that the listener wrote like, no, swear to God, there's not something else going on. It was just this. But doesn't it feel like there's something else? Like, it's pretty tough.

0:24:02 Eli: No, I can smell an asshole. Annie's the asshole.

0:24:03 Thomas: To be yeah that's fair

0:24:08 Tom: An asshole Christy is an asshole right like

0:24:10 Thomas: No I I'm not disagreeing with that yeah

0:24:10 Tom: I mean Christy probably taught Annie how to be an asshole that's probably where that where that comes from I mean it's got to be it's gotta come from somewhere

0:24:15 Thomas: But that is also just again I'm not uh no offense to our listener that's also the people that he would want to be the assholes in the story right I mean just it's not like yeah

0:24:23 Tom: Yeah of course it is he's gonna play this that look but here's here's the other thing David these are your in -laws

0:24:30 Thomas: Well once his brother I think he cares about or no his mom he cares About his mom not getting to see

0:24:30 Tom: You don't have to care about them yeah his mom doesn't get to see the kid that super sucks yeah

0:24:37 Thomas: Yeah I think that's breaking and that's sad like if that's a genuine like his mom actually is not shitty and wants to see the kid and is not not being allowed to by the fucking Annie and the cuck husband. That does kind of suck.

0:24:48 Tom: Yeah like what the fuck is with matt like what the fuck is with your brother david where your brother is like because if like if there was just some bullshit and it's like well you can't see the kids because I'm mad that somebody unfriended me on facebook

0:24:51 Thomas: Yeah, no, he sucks.

0:24:52 Eli: Yeah, your brother sucks.

0:25:00 Thomas: Yeah, there has to be more than that.

0:25:00 Tom: Are you fucking kidding like here you can have a drama that matters on facebook right it doesn't it can't matter it can matter

0:25:06 Thomas: There has to be more going on, right?

0:25:08 Eli: But David, David, I've got good news. I've Got Good News. Because I don't want to just sit here and lay this at your feet. Yes, it's your fault. You shouldn't have treated everybody like adults. That's on you. Shouldn't have treated everybody like adults.

0:25:19 Thomas: Idiot.

0:25:19 Eli: The expectation you had for everyone to be adults and for people to treat your mother well because she was treating them well and wanted to communicate well, that's onyou. But we can fix this because there's always a chance to lie and do shenanigans. Now, David? David, stay with me because these two cucks over here, they're about to lead you astray. They're aboutto be like, it's not your responsibility to fix people. Yes, it is, David. David, if you want peace, you have to fix people. And the good news is, and David, you know this is true. Look in your heart. Annie's an idiot. And you can manipulate Annie because she's an Idiot. Right? Tell your mom to fake having cancer. Oh, I would never do that. You know what? Do it. Do whatever shenanigans you want. Annie's not people. She doesn't matter. What matters is that your

0:25:16 Tom: It's not your

0:26:07 Thomas: Hey,

0:26:08 Eli: Mom gets to see your grandbaby. Fake having cancer, drive a car through a wall, say she's been kidnapped. Do whatever you want David because all you're only doing it to Annie and Annie's not people

0:26:17 Thomas: You seen the movie Fargo? Always works out great.

0:26:21 Tom: Fault all right but what what should people do that aren't insane I guess like that aren t that

0:26:28 Eli: You end up with your whole family broken up and sad the way David's is David's mom is so sad

0:26:36 Thomas: Do we know how much the listener talks to his brother? Cause it sounds like the brother's alienated from the mom, but do they? Oh, that is also. Okay. So there's really, okay. Yeah, that's right. Yep. Nope. Gotcha.

0:26:40 Tom: Who's no

0:26:41 Eli: He says that he sees him about once a year yeah remember cause Tom was like I don't see what's wrong with that sounds like too much Odyssey

0:26:43 Tom: Yeah yeah that's a normal amount of seeing your brother yeah I mean all

0:26:51 Eli: What are you

0:26:54 Thomas: For my brain, I've taken in so much more information than I'm capable of with this family stuff. I'm maxing out right now. Sometimes I have this with my, so my sisters are just always, my sisters and my mom, there's always, and by always, I mean the once or twice a decade that I see them there's always some fight there yeah but it is though like it's always it's pretty constant and the funny thing is I know it's constant because my brother actually somehow talks to them more often and also every time he talks to them there there's some fight and it's like I'll listen usually but I'm just like you all have the same story where you're all right and somebody else did something and like it it's compelling sometimes, but I just like there, I don't have any fucking idea how to, if, what am I going to pick a side? And well, she should have come over that time. And then, and I'm just like, I know, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to, I, I'll just, I don't, I care. I eventually I'm like, can you, have you tried just not caring at all? Like that's, that's the best advice I have. And I don'T even mean that in a, don't see them way. I mean, then they're like, you seem to be upset that someone didn't go to someone's house

0:27:11 Eli: Fucking it's non stop I tell you shenanigans gotta do the shenanigans thomas right don't take that as an insult just

0:27:58 Thomas: At a Yeah. Have you just tried not caring that much and just seeing them and being like, hi, who cares? You know, here we go.

0:28:04 Tom: Right yeah so so I want to jump on that because that's actually kind of the take I have to to some degree like no for real like the real fundamental question here is the fundamental no no no listen listen the fundamental question is

0:28:11 Eli: See david I told you they're leading you astray david they're leaving you into the forest don't turn off the podcast david put the gun down

0:28:20 Tom: What responsibility do kids have to play peacemaker amongst their family that's the that's the question at the heart of all of this. And my answer is you have no responsibility to play peacemaker period, not just among family. Like you should play peacemaker. If there's an advantage to you to solve the problem of the war, right? Like if, if you need to solve it for your own peace of mind, because you're eating shit because it affects you. But like if other grown ass people can't figure out how to have relationships with each other, that's never got anything to do with you. And all you're going to do is hurt yourself and your relationships with those by getting involved.

0:28:47 Thomas: Like Neville Chamberlain and. Hmm.

0:29:03 Tom: Don't be involved. Just stay the fuck out of it. These are adults. Like if mom's sad and she's texting you, what do I do about this problem? Be like, I don't know. That's a tricky problem, mom. That really sucks. I'm sorry you're put in that position.

0:29:14 Eli: But she needs you to come through with the shananigans david this is what I'm saying

0:29:19 Tom: That's it. Just stop caring. It's not your problem. You only get burned.

0:29:22 Eli: You don't get burned if you do shenanigan if you do shenanigans everything works out

0:29:26 Thomas: Try to take both of them to the prom.

0:29:29 Tom: I just think so many people burn themselves by involving themselves in other people's shit and they don't have the control right like remember that that sentence is like it's really it's like the only thing you get to control is you so like if you control you and you're doing all the things you're supposed to do and

0:29:43 Eli: So much better at controlling people than you it's crazy

0:29:46 Tom: Other and other people are behaving badly and their feelings are hurt and they're big mad or whatever it's all right well like that's those are your feelings they're not mine. Don't take that shit on, man. Don's take on someone else's war. Ain't your fucking war, David. Just let that be mom's war, let that Matt's war and let that fucking Annie's war. None of that has anything to do with David. David's not even part of this. He didn't even have the fucking kid. He's not part of it.

0:30:09 Eli: But david david let me explain why you should manipulate and do shananigans to the people in your life you're like batman okay so why does

0:30:16 Tom: You're assuming everybody is as good at this as you are, Eli.

0:30:21 Eli: You can be david you just need

0:30:23 Thomas: Also assuming he's good at it, which I don't know is actually true.

0:30:24 Eli: To let go of of the idea that you're not batman david okay because here's the thing Batman is willing to do the things that ordinary citizens of Gotham won't do. He's willing to dress up like a bat and beat up mentally ill people because it's what Gotham needs.

0:30:25 Tom: That is true. And I, yeah, right. Yeah.

0:30:41 Thomas: Needs. Yeah.

0:30:41 Eli: Your family, they don't need adult conversation. They don't need mature communication between two people. They're not capable of that. If they were, they would have done it already. People get in fights and make up all the time. That's what adults who are capable of do. You're the shenanigans superhero. You're super shenanigan. And you're there to be like, turns out she blocked your mom on Facebook because your mom is a child sex trafficker. What?

0:31:08 Thomas: So I want to give the Thomas version of this opposite advice, which is, have you tried massive de-escalation and just sticking to facts? So I just be like, text the brother. Hey, mom's pretty sad that she can't see that, you know, your kid. And that kind of bums me out. Just like just like, hey, this is a bad thing. And then then see how they react, you see what their thing is and kind of go from that. And I think the thing is, when they get to the like, well, yeah, but you are the wife. Well, I guess that cuck of a brother is kind of just going to be like, you know, wife, you know, so that sucks.

0:31:43 Thomas: But I don't know if he can open up communication with like somehow Annie at all. But like my thing would be no matter what thing they do with the like. Well, you understand, because this and then this and they'd be like. Yeah. But anyway, so it's kind of she's sad that she can't see the kid. And that's kind OF that's just sad. You know, just stick to the bare facts of like that's a bad thing.

0:32:00 Tom: Back off.

0:32:02 Eli: Next time you see Annie, you drop a hint about putting an Apple AirTag in someone's car to keep track of them. But the one you give her is fake. So then you drive a real Apple AirTag to the strip club and pair it to her phone and she catches matt at the strip club and then matt and her break up and your mom gets to see your grandkids on the weekends and alternating holidays that he has them or you could try to communicate your feelings how'd that

0:32:13 Thomas: What is happening okay so two different approaches yeah by

0:32:32 Tom: Number

0:32:32 Eli: Work for you david did it go well he

0:32:38 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:32:40 Thomas: By the way, is it just me or is number three blank was that intentional okay that's funny that's a

0:32:43 Tom: Three is blank. That's why I just read one, two, three.

0:32:43 Eli: Did leave number three blank it was a secret test if you highlighted it says Eli's my favorite on the podcast it's white on white background

0:32:49 Thomas: Mystery I actually believe that yeah

0:32:52 Tom: Yeah, question two is how do I react to my mom's persistent messaging asking me if she should cut my brother out of her life and send this emotional letter.

0:32:57 Thomas: Wait what cut her brother out of her life I thought she was trying to get back in the life did I fucking mess up this whole thing again

0:33:02 Eli: No no she's she is the letter that she has been working on is a letter to david the no matt the cuck yeah the letter she's been working on is a letter to matt the cuck that's like hey yeah you let your wife destroy our lives sorry you made that choice but I'm here if you want to have a relation because she just needs like closure mom's trying to get closure

0:33:10 Thomas: Okay yep yep yep who's the brother yeah Yeah. Yeah.

0:33:24 Thomas: Oh, I thought mom was just trying to get back in the life. If mom is trying to like somehow say cut her out, that doesn't fucking make sense to me. Now I'm now I might be not.

0:33:33 Eli: She's not making matt make a choice she's just saying because because she's Been sort of been going back and forth on this she's not like you have to choose between him or me she's Just trying to just say a final statement of like hey it is sad to me that you have made this choice I'm here if you want but like also acknowledging that he has made the choice because it seems like matt the cuck is sitting there being like oh I don't know everybody's fighting gosh and he has to go out for shots with her girls so freaky fridays

0:34:04 Tom: So how do I react to my mom's persistent messaging asking if she should cut my brother out of her life and send this emotional letter? I personally don't think that sending this type of letter is a good thing to do, but I also don't feel like I have the right to tell her not to send it. So this is kind of interesting too. Like when you become an adult, is it appropriate for your parent to come to you to help you mediate problems they have with the other kids? Because I feel like this This request, honestly, is wildly, fantastically inappropriate.

0:34:10 Thomas: Yeah, well, this is killing me because I was so totally on this mom's side until that sentence. My mom's persistent messaging asking me if she should cut my brother out of her life. I thought she was already cut out. What is the thing so that to me sounds like trying to have a sort of dramatic like ultimatum type thing for reasons that don't make sense like that now I'm kind of more unsure on whose side I'm on

0:34:54 Tom: Yeah, I feel like these two, here's the thing. Like, I feel like the email is confusing. So I'm trying to get past, cause it, it is contradictory.

0:35:00 Eli: Crystal clear to me david I got every

0:35:03 Tom: Now it, like, cause literally says, just, just to recap for the listeners, it literally says, the letter says to the brother, essentially saying, quote, it's okay. You need to focus on your family. It sucks. You had to cut me out of your life, but I get it and I will deal with it.

0:35:03 Eli: Word except for your name

0:35:18 Tom: That is in total opposition to mom writing a letter to cut the brother out of her life. Those two things don't match. So we've just got to get past that. They don't matter. They don't match. Yeah. Yeah.

0:35:25 Thomas: Something weird's going on all right well if his question is I personally don't think this sending this type of letter is a good thing to do yeah I agree because like if If that's the letter. No.

0:35:32 Eli: I agreed yeah your mom shouldn't send the letter

0:35:35 Thomas: Yeah. The only letter you should send, if any, is, hey, miss you. Wish we could somehow see each other.

0:35:35 Tom: I don't think you should ever send a letter. Yeah.

0:35:41 Eli: Honestly david here's my advice and again, these guys are going to come in and argue with me. I think your mom should eat the shit.

0:35:48 Thomas: Hmm. Yeah, probably. Well, yeah.

0:35:48 Eli: I think your mom should write a big apology letter to Annie with a big basket of fruit or fucking, you know, mini bottles of alcohol, whatever Annie likes, fucking earrings from Claire's. And she should be like, oh my God, Annie, I was totally wrong about everything. I refriended your mom on Facebook and I would never do that again. I hope you forgive me. And let her talk shit to her all the time and just eat that shit because Annie is easily mentally manipulated and she deserves to see her grandbaby.

0:36:04 Thomas: I let her talk shit to me all the time now.

0:36:14 Tom: Look, for mom, as far as what mom should do, yeah, I mean, mom should do whatever she's got to do in order to get access to what she wants, which is a relationship with that grandchild. A hundred percent. A hundred percent.

0:36:23 Thomas: I don't know. Something weird's going on. I feel like maybe the mom might, this mom might actually suck.

0:36:28 Eli: I trust Thomas. Look, Thomas often. So when I listened to our podcast, which is rare, but when I listen to it, a lot of the time I'll listen to what Thomas said. And I remember in the podcast in the moment, not understanding what Thomas meant. And then I listened to it and I'm like, Oh fuck, Thomas made a really good point. So he might be making a really good point right now.

0:36:45 Eli: We're inside the podcast now. So I don't know.

0:36:47 Thomas: Okay. So I think that's a sign that something else could be going on because totally like good actors, like innocent persons reaction to what I perceive to be incredibly unfair behavior here would be like, man, I just want to get back in their life. It would not be, should I cut the son out of my life? That's some, that is a sign to me that something that

0:37:09 Tom: That's why I wonder if David's perception is mistaken. Right.

0:37:11 Eli: That's what I'm saying. I think David is yeah.

0:37:11 Thomas: That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I think there might be some perception problem. It might be that your mom, David is maybe more of a problem than you might think in this in ways that I don't, maybe you don't know. Know so have you ever david just asked your brother without any you know again my strategy unlike eli's and you know pick which one you want to go with is without any fucking without any fuckin machiavellian any just be like hey what was the deal with the mom thing you know just what I don't know what the

0:37:32 Eli: Whoever is the adorable heart of the podcast, David just follow that person

0:37:42 Thomas: Context will be in their relationship but asking his view of what's happening and why without any like trying to do anything just just acquiring the best you can information neutrally as to, hey, what's going on and why, and see if there's more than you know going on with that or something.

0:37:59 Eli: And then secretly record it and play the parts that make Annie look bad for Annie so that she breaks up with him David

0:38:02 Thomas: Stop combining our plans.

0:38:06 Tom: And, and, and here's, here's my take, David, don't do any of that. That's all insane.

0:38:10 Thomas: Okay. Okay, three bears, three bears, baby.

0:38:13 Tom: David, you have no responsibility to any of this.

0:38:16 Thomas: That's fair. No, I get it.

0:38:16 Tom: You have no responsibility.

0:38:16 Eli: Take your house keys leave them at your front door and then just walk off into the

0:38:22 Tom: I would just be like, look, mom, that's up to you. That's up to you and your relationship with Matt. Here's the problem. As soon as he gives advice, he is responsible in some way to the outcome. He should not be responsible in any way for the outcome of somebody else's relationship with somebody else. Like this is a mess that David is not a part of. And his mom is trying to drag him into this by asking for his advice. And I don't think that's appropriate for mom to ask her son for advice on how to have a relationship with her other son. It's not appropriate because it's not fair to David. David can only lose in this situation. The response I would have to mom if I was David is like, mom, that really sucks. You're in a really tough spot with Matt and Annie. I really hope you guys can work things out. Let me know how I can help. I wouldn't say let me know how to help. It really sucks. I hope you guys can work things out. I love you. I love it. And that's it. David, no, no, 100%. It is inappropriate for her to come to David and ask and to be a confidant completely.

0:38:55 Thomas: Yeah, agreed there. Don't let me know how I can't help. Help. Yeah.

0:39:12 Eli: Night but not the helping kind of

0:39:23 Thomas: Agreed. And that's question four, right? So like question four. I think we agree. Yeah. Which is another tip off. Good. Yep.

0:39:25 Eli: Love ma'am I'm gonna have to ask you to leave

0:39:30 Tom: It's wrong. It's like it is actually wrong for mom to put David in that situation because again, none of this is David's drama. None of it is David drama, man. Here are all the players that are actually involved. Mom, Christy, Matt, Annie. That's it. David's literally got nothing to do with it.

0:39:46 Thomas: That's true. That's true. So much of this is screaming out that there's more going on because again, the mom being the kind of person who would put that on you listener tells me something, something could be wrong there.

0:39:57 Eli: Okay maybe there's something extra or maybe your mom recognizes that you have the potential to be batman that you are the manipulator that this family needs to save Gotham put a fake air tag in annie's car poison matt save your family david save them

0:39:57 Tom: It's not good. It's the missing

0:40:17 Thomas: No, wait a minute. Wait wait a minute, hold on. I just realized something guys. I just realized nothing. No, no, no. We specifically got the missing answers. He literally said they talked and fought and any of the wife said some of the meanest stuff I've ever heard from anyone to a family member. What was it? What was the stuff?

0:40:20 Eli: I'm right about everything

0:40:35 Thomas: Why would she just say mean stuff? Would there be maybe the stuff was hey, you're constantly fucking negative to me. Hey, you are causing problems in my life. Hey who knows maybe it was something where there's missing reasons that actually could be telling you what's going on. Because I'll be honest, the more I think about this, the more, I think that's actually what's on. I think maybe your mom could be more of the issue. I'm not, I'm saying for sure, but could be the issue than you think, you know, like that, that might be something going on here.

0:40:35 Eli: No

0:40:37 Tom: Missing we talked about. Yeah, it's almost always the case that everybody's the problem, right?

0:41:05 Thomas: Yeah. Or she's the main problem. I don't know.

0:41:08 Eli: I'm never the problem I've checked tom it's funny you should say that I've actually checked every incident I was never the trouble

0:41:16 Thomas: He doesn't tell us what the mean stuff is, you like, what, what is it? Why would someone just say a bunch of mean stuff? When you read that at first, it's the missing, missing reasons. And you expect like, oh, was she just like, oh, you fucking B cunt, whatever, like horrible stuff. And what if it was actually stuff?

0:41:31 Eli: Yeah it's not like we're worried about

0:41:33 Thomas: I don't, I know, I don't know why. And I also, I censored the wrong word. That was funny too. Why would that happen? You know, that seems a little extreme, doesn't it?

0:41:39 Tom: It does. The whole thing. Here's the thing. David is not getting, no matter what happens, David is getting a liar's version of the events.

0:41:48 Thomas: That's fair.

0:41:48 Tom: So this is the other, this is the problem. This is the problem that I would just refuse to be in. I would, I would encourage everybody to refuse to begin this problem because like mom is telling you her version. Matt is telling you his version. Probably. I don't know, but maybe he is probably not even getting a version from Annie. He's probably not getting a version from Christy, even if he were, they're all lying, right?

0:41:42 Eli: Language I haven't ever talked to David I don't understand what you're talking

0:42:03 Thomas: Has he gotten Matt's version? So that's what I'm asking. I don't know.

0:42:15 Tom: They're all telling him some version of their perception of it. And again, what point is there in you being a part of this, David? These are all grown ass people who are unhappy and miserable because they don't know how to have a connection with each other. It's got nothing to do with you, bro.

0:42:29 Thomas: I agree with a lot of that.

0:42:29 Tom: I would not let that have anything to do with me. I would be like, well, sucks to have a bad relationship with other people you care about. Anyway, I'm having dinner. That's got nothing to do with me.

0:42:37 Eli: Unless you fix it

0:42:40 Thomas: And the fact that like, here's, here's another thing. No, here's another thing I'm pulling out of here for Eli when he listens back later. What, um, why is Matt's brother cutting him out? His story was because he tried to have them talk like adults, but that doesn't, that doesn't make sense either. So is Matt, Matt's a listener, right? No, sorry.

0:42:52 Tom: Yeah

0:43:01 Thomas: Why is David's brother? Cutting him out is what I meant.

0:42:56 Eli: David right david's the

0:43:01 Tom: David because david already here's the thing david already tried to help and he's eating his shit for it right so that's why you don't try to help other people

0:43:05 Thomas: Cause David tried. Well, that's what his version though. Hold on, hold on. Yeah, fair. That's his version, though. And I'm sorry, David, this is just what I'm picking up from a lot of these signals is what if you are more of an enabler to your moms, who's a missing reasons person than you know, because I don't, here's what doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that Annie is saying all the meanest things that mysteriously, we don't know what they are. That doesn't make sense. It also doesn't Makes sense that your brother would cut you out for just saying, Hey, can they have a conversation that doesn't making sense.

0:43:38 Thomas: So it could be that they are really, it could be, I'm not saying I'm a hundred percent sure on this. I'm saying that an explanation could be, What if they don't like that they can't seem to get through to you David about why your mom sucks like why what if they have a really hard time and

0:43:37 Tom: It certainly doesn't

0:43:39 Eli: Listener oh it makes sense to me no annie annie and matt are assholes

0:43:54 Thomas: Maybe they're wrong but what if they have a really hard time with the fact that they can't get through to you on that and that genuinely your mom is causing problems to either Annie or the son or both and that they feel like you're kind of defending her and not on their side and again they could be wrong, but I think that might make more sense as to why there's even a conflict between you and your brother

0:44:11 Tom: Yeah here's a thing imagine a

0:44:13 Eli: Annie's an asshole and matt's an asshole I'm with you David I get it I mean you should do the manipulation thing you're a coward

0:44:15 Thomas: Wait, David is the one who listens to our show. Yeah, never mind. You're right about everything it's 100 % what you should do is subscribe at patreon .com slash zero dads for more advice like

0:44:23 Eli: But annie I'm mad at the problem if you want the shenanigans level I'll actually help direct the shenanigans

0:44:28 Thomas: This oh we'll mediate your family argument we will mediate yeah oh

0:44:31 Tom: Scenario oh oh all

0:44:32 Eli: I've got some we'll get into the hey we're already doing advice on the air maybe we get into like manipulation advisement right which is like oh Uh,

0:44:39 Thomas: I would true story I don't know if the dads would veto me on this if anyone involved in this story anyone your brother your mom your brother's wife would call in yeah no let's call into this show I would I would just call us and give us their version I swear to god I would love that so much

0:44:47 Eli: Wants to debate me on Serious Inquiries Only.

0:44:55 Thomas: That would be my favorite thing in the world I know yeah we

0:44:55 Tom: Right oh my

0:44:55 Eli: Uh, that would be so awful. I would hate that so much.

0:44:59 Thomas: We would not guarantee that it's going to air but I would talk to them I would absolutely talk to him I

0:45:04 Tom: Fuck that I wouldn't talk to them if they were in my family that is my

0:45:04 Eli: You can, yeah,

0:45:06 Thomas: Know Tom's already saying he doesn't even

0:45:06 Eli: It goes over, goes over in serious inquries only. I'll help you manipulate them.

0:45:09 Thomas: Want yeah but because they're not in your family it's like I don't have any fucking skin in the

0:45:14 Tom: Oh god fuck

0:45:14 Eli: I'll wear a mustache and like jump out of the banana stand and be like, that's why you always wear a seatbelt. But I'm not fucking, I'm not talking to your family. This is why it's good to be the worst person in your family, because whenever I've ever had a fight with anyone in my family I'm so obviously wrong that I'm just like oh god of course of course all right gentlemen before we go the U.S. Mint just invented a machine that recycles old pennies into new ones it just makes sense you

0:45:19 Thomas: Game voices

0:45:35 Clip: DEAR OLD DADS

0:46:39 Eli: Ain't never coming back to my house no more

0:46:43 Thomas: Helping the voices are helping I just realized

0:46:46 Eli: I'm right about everything you can't just be like well we're all adults no we're not make

0:46:59 Tom: That that's exactly right we don't care Ha ha ha ha!

0:47:03 Thomas: Something stop combining our plans fans.

0:47:03 Eli: Annie look bad for Annie so that she breaks up with him you don't get burned if you do shenanigans against.