DOD192: Funding Your Kid's "Lifestyle"

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and honor dependent. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired.

0:00:22 Clip: Telling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast with ice on its ball sack. I'm Tom Curry. I've joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen. Of us.

0:00:38 Eli: Of us one of uh one

0:00:41 Tom: The Shootin' Blanks Club. We're in the Shootin Blanks club, buddy. Yeah.

0:00:41 Thomas: There's a vast difference between how I was this week and how I but um oh I should have saved that for eli's terrible dad joke no

0:00:54 Eli: I'll see that would have been great a

0:00:55 Thomas: Hey you fuckers thought I'd never chop my balls off and yet here I am holding my ball sack in my hand

0:01:01 Eli: Mere three years after we first started I interesting. I have a couple of students, I'm teaching this year, and I have several students who, as we reach the end of the school year, are like, what if I turn that in now? I'm like, I will eat it in front of you. That's what will happen. I will chew it multiple times and then I will swallow it down and it'll be in my tummy and I'll yum, yum, yummy.

0:01:26 Eli: You have a two semester late term paper of a vasectomy is what you have.

0:01:26 Thomas: What

0:01:32 Tom: I knew as a quick aside, I knew a guy who finished his entire, like he went through his entire education, had a final project to do, did 99 % of the final project, then chickened out on turning it in, didn't turn it in and did not finish his degree program.

0:01:45 Thomas: Man I feel that oh

0:01:48 Eli: Yep. Very typical, actually. As someone who used to work in the tutoring space, I have seen multiple people who are like days away from their final thing and their brain is just like, who shall not pass college?

0:01:49 Thomas: Okay that's insane

0:02:03 Tom: Yeah, it was fucking unbelievable. I was like, dude, if you turned this in as is, you'd get a C and you'd get your degree. It wouldn't be great. If you spent another two weeks on it, it would be an A. But I'm like, just fucking turn it in. And he's like, it's not, I can't. And Now he's 40. There's no degree for no reason.

0:02:05 Thomas: Well I my god wow That is crazy. I had a weird one where my the college I went to tricked me and everyone else into an honors program that didn't actually mean anything. Like when you first got in, I guess. Yeah. OK. I guess so. I didn't know what the fuck. I'm 17. I don't fucking know. I get in with honors. There's a special dorm or two. I was like honors dorms. That's great. It was actually fun. I like that part. But then they're like, yeah.

0:02:33 Eli: Like all honors programs.

0:02:46 Thomas: And then you do you do.

0:02:46 Eli: Feels eugenic. Can I give that note? Feels eugenic.

0:02:49 Tom: In a good way or bad way.

0:02:52 Eli: Like not to comment on air.

0:02:53 Thomas: All right, Elon Musk.

0:02:53 Tom: Because you have strong feelings

0:02:56 Eli: I do have strong. Feelings.

0:02:58 Thomas: But so I always thought that was like, oh, yeah, graduating with honors. And then like, I don't know, fucking senior year, whatever. Do you call that of college? It's been so long. They were like, Oh, no, no. That's the graduate with honors GPA. Yeah. The honors program will just be like some sort of asterisk that doesn't matter. And so I literally had gone through the whole thing. And the final thing was this. Capstone project thing that seemed like really intense. And I just never did it. I was like, I started it and I was, like, oh, I found that out. Don't need to do it. Too hard. Not doing it. Just quit.

0:03:10 Tom: About it. That's just your GPA. I

0:03:31 Eli: Here's my question. What happens to the kids who are in student government? Because I could describe them to a sketch artist, to a T, but I've never heard anyone be like, I'm Senator Fillmore and what can I say? Ever since I started out in student, like my college had a robust student government and I have never heard from any of those fuckers ever again.

0:03:46 Tom: Think

0:03:53 Thomas: Oh, okay. Well, I think the girls that are in it go on to run the world, actually. And then I don't know what dudes become college Republicans, I guess.

0:04:00 Eli: Tom, do you want to tell Thomas that women don't actually run the world? That's not a thing.

0:04:02 Tom: Are not running the way others

0:04:04 Eli: That's actually terrible out there.

0:04:04 Tom: Know. There are seven women that are successful and the rest of them.

0:04:05 Thomas: My god. No, they run the word in the background and don't get any credit for it, is what I'm saying. Like, they all, we,

0:04:10 Eli: They're doing a terrible job. I feel like you should backpedal. I think you should not give them credit for the world, maybe like a charity or two. They are desperately trying to fix the world.

0:04:18 Thomas: Sorry. That's a good point. No,

0:04:22 Tom: Into their pillow. Is that fixing the world?

0:04:25 Thomas: Tiny little high school in California, weirdly had some exceptional people at it in my class. I had T .J. Dillashaw I already talked about. And then this girl who was really smart and did all that government -y stuff. And she runs all these non -profits. She's one of those people that just does all this shit that's insane. I haven't talked to her.

0:04:45 Eli: Person trap. Yeah, we had one of those too. Good person traps always so sad because if they were like two clicks more evil, they'd be a CEO with a nice life. But instead they're in fucking Uganda writing grant proposals for water.

0:04:56 Thomas: I think she does fine.

0:04:56 Tom: I know. Feel Like, like all of that stuff is great. If you're going to go on to an advanced degree program, like all that is in my view is like. The stuff you do in high school that isn't school so that you can get into college. It's like, oh, I got to be on the fucking, the glee club or whatever. And all this stupid bullshit. And it's only so you can pad a resume.

0:05:16 Eli: Some of us just love show tunes, Tom, you piece of shit.

0:05:18 Thomas: I know. I did none of those things. I was just like, oh, I did sports. I guess I can put that on the resume.

0:05:24 Tom: Didn't know things either. Don't get me wrong. But I went to community college because I was fucking broke.

0:05:27 Thomas: Well, I do theater. Yeah.

0:05:28 Eli: One guy can hold onto car for surprisingly long time.

0:05:36 Thomas: But anyway, I don't even talk about it. I freaking Tom did with my ball sack. I got so it was great.

0:05:40 Eli: Didn't drink enough water.

0:05:40 Tom: So, yeah. That's not good. You never want to time it. When I'm a verb, things have gone south bad.

0:05:45 Eli: It's never a good verb.

0:05:46 Thomas: I 100%.

0:05:47 Tom: That's bad.

0:05:47 Thomas: It's not a good verb. In this case, the timing it was thinking I was fine and so doing too much and doing a house project. And then the next, like, that day, my freaking ball. Oh, my God. Well, only one of them, though. One's perfect. You can put it in the catalog.

0:05:55 Tom: Told you a story to... know. I'll have to see the picture.

0:06:07 Thomas: It's a, yeah, testicles quarterly. It is exactly. But the other one's not doing so good. Yeah. But I all I wanted was a doctor or surgeon who had done a billion of them. And this was that. And that's all I needed. And me how I feel. I was just a little bit nervous because I had friend, you know, had that experience. And then he's instantly like, oh, was it Dr. Dick Seaman in New York? And I was like, yeah, yeah it was. He knew. He gave him the third ball, right? Yeah, gave him The old

0:06:11 Tom: Balls Illustrated. The worst swimsuit issue ever.

0:06:12 Eli: I disagree.

0:06:38 Tom: The old third ball. Yeah.

0:06:38 Eli: The old third ball.

0:06:39 Thomas: Testicle prank they pull. Nobody had all these bits that I was Like, ah, man. How do I signal Like, hey, I'm not, I don't need This. Like, you know when people go into their

0:06:48 Tom: You don't. You just listen to the bits. That's great.

0:06:52 Thomas: Can we get an opt -out button, though? Can I get an Opt -out? Like, like a

0:06:55 Eli: Like that thing on Uber where you can be like, don't talk to me.

0:06:58 Tom: I want a quiet ride or whatever. Yeah!

0:06:59 Thomas: I don't mind talking to a human, but I don't want the shtick. Like they have their shtick, their planned shtick for when they're doing each thing.

0:07:06 Tom: I WANT THE Shtick.

0:07:07 Eli: Gotta let them have their shtick. They look at dicks.

0:07:09 Tom: We gotta have the shtick!

0:07:09 Thomas: I did. I let him have his shtick. But but but here was here's what was weird. We did this funny thing where he switched from like, oh, he's going to have a human conversation back to a shtik. It was really disorienting, like like, he asked about what did. And so once I started talking about the podcast, because he asked and my balls were in his hands and I couldn't find a way to not answer. So I started telling him about podcasting and then he's like, oh, cool. And he starts like talking to me like normal. And then he just dips into some shtick again. And I thought for a second he was telling me a real thing, but it was another like testicles joke that I do.

0:07:12 Tom: I want the shtick! The shtick is great!

0:07:42 Thomas: And it was like, okay, man.

0:07:42 Eli: It would be useful. I don't want to deny them the shtick, but if they could turn a mask around on their face to the smiley side so that I know like we're doing bits now, I think that would be really useful.

0:07:51 Thomas: 100%.

0:07:55 Tom: Is there's nothing worse than when you're having some kind of like awkward procedure. And like, if you, I know the three of us on this call, like we deal with that by like, all right, I just, I don't know. This is weird. I'm going to make jokes. And then you're making jokes. You're like, first of all, these jokes are killing. And second of all you're not laughing. And that is the worst.

0:08:11 Thomas: I hate that. Yeah.

0:08:12 Tom: That's the word where somebody just looks at you. Like, I'm just here to cut your balls in half. I don'T know why you're

0:08:18 Thomas: The thing I do that I can't stand that no one else does is that I you know, that this guy's done 1 ,400 of these. There's not a joke I'm going to tell that's going to be different, unless I think of one that I think is really unique. Otherwise, the guy cuts balls for a living. Like, I'm not going to think of a ball joke that he hasn't already heard. And there's nothing lamer than a fucking joke that you think is very funny that someone's like, yep, I heard that 14 times today. Thanks. That was the 15th time. I really love it.

0:08:45 Eli: Can I give you some advice on that? You can work bluer than he's had before.

0:08:48 Tom: Yeah, I was going to say, I know you can tell. At least at the end of it, did you offer to do his in return? Like, okay, now it's my turn. Just give him a little,

0:08:55 Thomas: Way. That's definitely a con.

0:08:56 Eli: I feel like he's heard that one.

0:08:57 Thomas: He's heard that one.

0:08:57 Eli: But let me hit you with one of these. I promise he hasn't heard this. You come in after the appointment. He's like, any complications, anything? And you're like, yeah, it tastes awful. You got it. And then you pull out a jug.

0:09:11 Thomas: He probably has done that because it was someone's wife, you know?

0:09:13 Eli: Listen. Then you pull out a jug of Elmer's glue that you've mixed with glitter. Like jar full. And you're like, taste this. Taste this and tell me this isn't the worst tasting cum you've ever had. I promise you, Thomas, no one's done that. And he'll talk about you and think about you for the rest of his life.

0:09:25 Tom: Life,

0:09:30 Thomas: That's fair.

0:09:36 Eli: I can't, look. I love podcasting. I think it's given me a certain amount of immortality. But I promise you, I've said some things in some rooms that people will be on their deathbed being like, that guy was weird.

0:09:36 Tom: Yes, yes.

0:09:52 Thomas: And I don't live my life that way. I just use humor to try to get out of talking to anyone and then I'm done with the situation.

0:09:58 Eli: Well, see how it worked out for you?

0:10:01 Thomas: I got out of it. I'm not there in the office still getting my balls handled.

0:10:04 Eli: You're still there. Thomas, wake up. Thomas wake up! You knocked yourself unconscious. Still work as an accountant for the state or something, whatever. Oh, but guys, you know the only thing worse than the taste of my cum after a vasectomy? Why?

0:10:07 Thomas: I'm not, uh, no. Sorry.

0:10:14 Tom: Auto The

0:10:21 Thomas: I'm done. I said, okay, no ejaculating for seven days. And I was like, that's okay. Big guy. That's funny. What? Just, I don't think I didn't process it. Cause then I got home and I was

0:10:35 Eli: It's... First

0:10:34 Tom: Most traumatizing part of the experience was after

0:10:38 Thomas: You ever not ejaculated for seven days? Cause I don't think I've ever done that.

0:10:42 Tom: A vasectomy.

0:10:43 Thomas: Yeah. The one time. Yeah, 14 years.

0:10:45 Eli: About to tell us he hasn't ejaculated since 1968 and I need us to be prepared for this.

0:10:50 Thomas: Yeah I, I'm realizing like that fucks your life. Like, I don' want to get too crazy, but like, that's a tough, especially like, you when you're in discomfort too, and you're like, boy, you You know what would be great as I'm trying to fall asleep in pain right now?

0:11:07 Eli: Know it would be just swell.

0:11:09 Thomas: Just dandy. It would be.

0:11:10 Tom: Lot of swelling is the problem. So yeah, that's

0:11:13 Thomas: Yeah. And it's like that can't be right.

0:11:15 Tom: The, yeah. You jerk off on the drive home? I mean, I think you did.

0:11:18 Thomas: I know I'm in enough pain that I haven't done anything yet. Like it's been that painful.

0:11:24 Eli: You Seaman, I'm not going to do that. And he was like, what? And I was like I'm going to jerk off

0:11:30 Thomas: Good luck with your third ball. That's what he said. Turns out it's Eli's fault.

0:11:33 Eli: Relatively soon. I said, and this is 100 % real, I said what's the emergency amount I need to not come for? And he paused and he thought about the gun in his desk for a while. And suppose once the swelling is gone, um, yeah,

0:11:55 Tom: And you were like, God damn it. The swelling didn't go down for six months for me.

0:11:58 Eli: Exactly. So I just didn't fucking wait.

0:11:58 Thomas: And you said, sorry, I was whacking it. What did you say?

0:12:02 Tom: Was no swelling for Eli. It was just backed up spunk because he kept just shooting into his own sack every time.

0:12:06 Thomas: Guys have the swelling work its way into your penis? Because I didn't know that was going to happen. Yeah. And it starts. It's a that's a comical site. It looks like the Michelin man. Not going to lie. The swelling in the penis is not. What you would think it is. It's because it's not designed for that. The penis is like, look, we'll take what fluids we can get. But this is weird. Like I'm going to I'll work with it, but it's Oh, good time. Anyway, that's never happened. And every single evening, shall we say, I'm like, I can't believe this is still happening like this. This agony of being in seven day, what, four or five? Fuck that. No, wait, it's Tuesday. Oh, God, only one more day. I'm setting my fucking watch. Although, yeah.

0:12:50 Tom: You're setting your whack alarm.

0:12:53 Thomas: So, but, but the swelling's not down, do you think I'm supposed to not? Cause like means I might need more time. Do you think you need to wait or? Is it a deadline that's firmly bureaucratic and expires the minute it's been seven days of not coming? Or...

0:13:05 Tom: I mean, the question is like, is it the letter of the law or the spirit of the And I don't know.

0:13:11 Eli: Spirit, right? Yeah. Much like all the rest of the laws, I'm not playing because they're constructions to keep white people in power. So, I don't, I Not sure how that one's a part of it, but I'm sure it is somewhere. So I'm going to go ahead and come.

0:13:28 Thomas: Eugenics.

0:13:28 Eli: Yeah. Yeah. I know the only thing worse than the taste of my cum after my vasectomy? Why? It's the auto ads. Yes, the auto adds, the eugenics of podcasting for those elite members of our audience who have given us a dollar over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dads. They don't have to hear those auto ads, meaning they're stronger, faster, and living a better life. You can join them. And get a parenting story at the end of every single episode over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dads. As Thomas's doctor didn't tell him, rip into it. Don't rip into It. Rip it not.

0:14:09 Tom: Right. So I a co -worker that I was talking to the other day and she's got a couple of adult children. She And was telling me kind of, you know, like she tells me about her life and whatever. And her kids are 26 and 30. 26 and 36. So I need you to keep that in mind as we're walking down this garden path together. And it really struck me that, like, this has got to be talked about on this show. Because her 26 -year -old is having some, like mental health issues. Which, fine. Like, people have health issues, they have health

0:14:12 Eli: Gross. Emotional cheating.

0:14:47 Tom: Support, and she's getting in some legal trouble and what have you. She's a lot like care and support. And that's all fine. That makes a lot of sense to me, right? Like, I'm like, yeah, okay, cool. Like, just chit -chatting with her. Her 30 -year -old, though, 30 - year -old is furious with her because she is only paying a portion of the 30 - she's paying like half or like three quarters of the health insurance through the marketplace, like through the ACA marketplace for her 30-year-old daughter. Her 30-year-old daughter got an inheritance and used the inheritance to quit their job so they could just hang out at home, like in their apartment. They don't live at home. They have an apartment. Just hang out in their department. They just take a year off to just fuck around.

0:15:30 Eli: For a year, not forever.

0:15:31 Thomas: I was going to say, not forever. The inheritance was $13 ,000.

0:15:32 Tom: For a year. Well, it's been a year it's it's, it, it. Yeah, it it's. It's been. A year, right? So she's not working. Mom is paying for her health insurance. And the mom is like, Hey, you gotta, you I don't know what your fucking plan is here, but like, you got to get a job. Like you've got to. Get a job and get working. And and. The daughter said something and I just wanted to like, bring to this table. So the daughter said, I am your daughter forever.

0:15:44 Eli: Have more money than I do.

0:15:56 Tom: And you have an obligation to support me forever. And things in your own life, and I'm paraphrasing, but not by much, forgo things in your life like vacations or whatever to support, that's your obligation for signing on as a parent.

0:16:00 Thomas: This can't be real, Tom. Oh, Eli, I just realized Tom's not real. Oh. So when we do the Reddits, I'm like, fake. And now I'm realizing, actually, Tom has been fake this whole time.

0:16:21 Eli: I was about to say that. I think Tom was in the middle of firing this person and just didn't

0:16:25 Thomas: I think so, too. They just started. Just flow of consciousness, stream of consciousness.

0:16:26 Eli: Pick up the cues.

0:16:26 Tom: I would never. I lost would be if I fired this woman. Like I would have to do her job and I don't know how to do it. That would be terrifying. But like, no, she's great. So she's telling me this story. Oh yeah. She's amazing. So like she's, she was telling me the story and I'm like, that feels fucking insane to me. And she's like, it feels insane to be too. She said, but in talking with other parents, her age, and she's a little older than I am. She got kids that are, you know, 30. There's a generation of kids that are expecting, and that's why I want to bring it up, expecting a level of financial and other supports well into their adulthood.

0:17:01 Thomas: Well, to be fair. Yeah. I mean, fucking the economy and housing and everything. So, I sort of

0:17:06 Eli: I mean, it's a combination of real stuff and also the social internet just convincing absolutely everyone into a dribbling insane person. But millennials are, I know so many millennials in exactly that position where like they are entirely supported by their parents. They live at home. And when you talk to them about anything approaching the reality of whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, they're like, Tumblr, the diseases that I made up and learned about on the internet. Rush Limbaugh,

0:17:15 Thomas: Nah, I don't buy that. I think that's bullshit, man.

0:17:40 Thomas: I don' t know anyone like that. That's weird. Is it a New York thing?

0:17:40 Eli: Ronald Reagan. Oh God, that sounds fucking amazing.

0:17:43 Thomas: Cause it's impossible to live anywhere.

0:17:44 Eli: It might be a New York thing. It also might be an actor thing.

0:17:47 Thomas: Yeah. No, that's it. Yeah,

0:17:48 Eli: It could be a performing person thing.

0:17:48 Thomas: That' s it. Okay. That could be it.

0:17:50 Eli: But, like, think in my non -parent friends, I have more friends in their 30s entirely dependent on their parents than I do not.

0:18:03 Thomas: Hey, can I say a thing that might be controversial? I don t think I could be friends with him. I mean, I, we already, I'm on the record as I don't have a lot of friends. I don' t need a lot friends, but the minute they're, hey mom, can I get, you're hanging out with a 38 year old. Hey mom, we're going to get, no, I' m sorry. I'm out.

0:18:20 Eli: These are people I met when we were both young. So they're like college friends.

0:18:23 Thomas: So you've had a lot of time to get rid of them.

0:18:26 Eli: Right. But then it's just me and myself. But you have to understand, Thomas, if I don't have people around to like me at all times, I'm with the person who hates me the most. My wife.

0:18:31 Thomas: It sounds great. Oh, okay.

0:18:40 Eli: No, it's me. It's me, OK?

0:18:44 Tom: Like when I was in my late 20s, yeah, late 20S, I my best friend growing up with this guy, Rick. His mom was turning 50. I was gonna go to his mom's 50th birthday party and I was to meet my old friend, Rick, who I hadn't seen in years. I'm going to meet Rick at his apartment. And then we were going to to see his mom. And like I was so close to this family. Like I went to their house on Christmas Eve and had presents under their tree. Like, I It was a very close relationship with everybody. I get to Rick's house. I'm probably 28 years old at this point. I gets to Rick house. It's an apartment. He's sharing it with two other guys. It stinks like fucking weed. There's holes in the wall where he punched a hole in the walls when he got mad at some point. He is watching Yu -Gi -Oh! At 3 in the afternoon on a Saturday and everyone is high.

0:19:29 Eli: I don' understand how that's been. That sounds like a great idea. Fucking power

0:19:31 Tom: And I just was like, I walked in that door and I saw my buddy, you know, and I was like hey, and kind of looked around and I assessed the situation, I faked a phone call and I left and I never saw him or his mom again.

0:19:33 Eli: Of the cards. Yeah.

0:19:42 Tom: Because fuck that shit, right?

0:19:44 Eli: That is the Tom response to that decision.

0:19:46 Thomas: This is where Tom's not entirely wrong, though. Like, sometimes Tom has a point.

0:19:47 Tom: But like... is independence no longer a value associated with adulthood? Do

0:19:59 Thomas: Doesn't need adults. He needs people who like him.

0:20:02 Tom: No, with your connection with these young people, because I'm thinking of like. When I was 30, I did occasionally like I don't want to say like my folks never reached out and helped me as an adult, but I never expected them to help me. Right. There were times they were like, hey, you know, like we've got a little extra. We see that you're struggling or like, you're in real estate and it's 2008 and like the entire industry's collapsed and like we can help. But no point was I not independent. And at no To fix this for me.

0:20:34 Thomas: Yeah. And it's so interesting because we've chatted about this a little before, but I think it's been a while. So just sorry if I'm repeating the story. But my there's one thing that I don't think my dad was maybe entirely wrong about. There's a few things. For one, McDonald's. It was good when I ate meat. It's good. It's delicious. Two, he made it very clear that As long as I went to college, I could live there. Once I graduated college, going to live there. And he just like made it clear that wasn't ever an option. And I never considered it to be an option and it just wasn't. And somehow, I mean, even though I graduated in 2008, like the worst time to graduate, fortunately I was able to get a job that paid nothing and and I moved out and like, there's two sides of it though. And genuinely wonder this with my kids because, again, I don't have that healthy model to know what I think there's some amount of that that's good. I think I do need to become independent. I need I think they need to like want that somewhat. But on the other hand. I did not need my parents for anything. And I mean anything because of that, I guess, toxic level of independence. And so I just forget that my mom exists for most of my days. Like I've, I talked to her a couple of times a year. I like my mom. I know I like, I don't mind. I mean, it's hard to spend too

0:21:47 Thomas: Much time with her, but yeah,

0:21:47 Tom: I like her. I don't mind her at all.

0:21:49 Thomas: It isn't. Well, what I mean is I'm not actively in a fight with her. I'm

0:21:54 Eli: You nothing her like Tom, his exes, and his mom.

0:21:57 Thomas: I wouldn't even say that. It's like I every time I talk about actually, she's you know what? I should give her more credit. I think maybe because we never talk. She started watching the Sharks games and she'll just message me about the Shanks. I'm like, oh, OK, sure. I'll talk. Cool. Let's chat. And like she's watching them and we're talking about a little bit via a couple of texts, you one hand. They Yes, had four kids, my parents. And so, you know, they they didn't need us to leave. Left and I never really looked back or needed to talk to them for anything. I came and visited for a while. And then once my brother and I kind of realized what my dad was, we sort of stopped talking to him. But not only did I never need them for any financial ever again, I didn't even for anything housing ever again. I also just didn't to talk to them. Like they, they didn't, they, there was never a time that they had provided anything that I need, no emotional support, no whatever, you know?

0:22:49 Eli: Right.

0:22:49 Thomas: And it's like, the downside of that is now, like if my dad were still alive and there wouldn't be any talking. It's just like, there are these there, they were these, um, what? Like these, uh, they owned a bed and breakfast, maybe not even that nice. Cause like,

0:23:03 Eli: Yeah, those people want a five -star review.

0:23:05 Thomas: Yeah, they just they just managed a house and now I'm gone. It's like There's there's nothing there Yeah

0:23:10 Eli: It's fences parenting, right? If you've ever read the play Fences, right, it's like are there people out there whose mindset was like, I put clothes on your back and food in your belly. That was my job. And then, and this is what we're seeing, especially now with the difference between our generation and the past generation, is that... Then when they stop putting clothes on their kids' backs and food in their bellies, their kids sever their relationship and they're like, but I'm your pa. And it's like, oh no, it turns out you were the gap slash subway. So, um, I.

0:23:41 Tom: The is young people that you know, like is independence not a because when I grew up in the 80s and 90s and it was expected there was independence was like a value of adulthood. Right. Not have considered myself an adult, a functional adult in the world if I were not independent. And I'm wondering, is that no longer a shared value related to adulthood for younger people in your view?

0:24:04 Eli: I can only speak to my friend group, which is obviously, you know, very selected for artists in the Manhattan area, right? Like there's a selection within a selection, within a collection. But I'm only kind of kidding when I say that like the internet brain rot is omnipresent, right. A single person I know who is now entirely dependent on their parents is like, I own some part of it. They are all deeply invested in Reaganomics and self -diagnosed mental health conditions, self -biased physical conditions, right? It's the economy, it's the job market, it the internet, it politics.

0:24:33 Thomas: Reaganomics what? Oh blaming other stuff.

0:24:42 Eli: Right. It always someone's fault. And these are people who are very dear to me, who I like very much, some of whom I have had peripheral conversations about this with. I've had one like straight up and down, get your act together conversation with one person who's no longer in my life because what he chose to do instead of getting his life together is molest children. But like of friend group, right, the people that I have conversations around this subject with. They are only interested in discussing outside forces have left them no choice but to do the things they do and act the way they do.

0:25:20 Thomas: And that's a tough one because there's definitely truth to that And if you look at like the ratio you can't escape ratio of how much wages have stagnated to housing has gone up. You just can't. And now food and everything like there's no way that doesn't mean a bunch of people who would have been fine otherwise are now below that line. And that's just a fact. And like, I think there's only is there nothing wrong with acknowledging that, I mean, it's kind of pathological to not acknowledge that. I think if you still hold people to the same standards with way fewer resources, essentially, that's shitty. It just is shitty. But.

0:25:23 Eli: Course! Yeah. Oh yeah.

0:25:44 Tom: I totally agree. Yeah. Yeah, like

0:25:53 Thomas: But only discussion is ever who's to blame and never like, OK, granted, now you're in this mess. What can you try to do about it? Then I don't. Yeah, that's that's tough. I don'T know what to do About that. You know, it's like I would have a hard time being friends with something like that.

0:26:05 Tom: I. I think the thing that blows me away about this whole experience, it's not like, and Haley and I have talked, like we're going to get the kids through college and then they've got a few years after college. We are not like unaware of that same problem of like, you know, wage problems and like the incredible cost of housing and all of that. And it's like, yeah, we'll get the through college. And then they can stay here for a few year after college, we actually want them to.

0:26:30 Tom: So they're going out into the world with a little safety net behind them, a little nest egg that they've created. Like, I think all of that stuff is really good. So I'm not like a, you know, out the door at 18 or out the 22 kind of guy. I don't believe in that. That's nonsense. And I think it exactly does not take into account those economic realities. But part of it that kind of blows me away is of it, right? Idea that it's like, yeah, you just owe this to me.

0:26:54 Tom: It is expected that you continue to provide. There an expiration date on that? At which point you say like, hey, look, you can come to me if there's a crisis. Of course, I'll help you in a crisis, but

0:26:59 Eli: It's thought down the road from I didn't ask to be born.

0:27:10 Tom: Man, that's exact. That's exact, you know, like, because again, I want to acknowledge like in when 2016, when I got divorced, I stayed with my dad for like two weeks. Like I was like, Hey, I don't have any place to go, you

0:27:20 Thomas: Eli, we can't be friends with this fucking loser.

0:27:23 Eli: Little pussy ass bitch.

0:27:25 Tom: In 2008, being in real estate, when the market crashed, I borrowed some money. I that stuff is fine. But if my dad had said no, that would have been fine too. If my dad would have said, I can't help. I'd be like, yeah, okay, that's fine. You don't owe that to me anymore. I'm a grown -up. I'll figure it out.

0:27:44 Eli: Man, no problem. Do you mind if I hang out on the stoop for a second? Nice and sunny out here.

0:27:51 Thomas: I'll tile your... Everything's already tiled. You covered in tile.

0:27:53 Tom: Everything is tile.

0:27:54 Thomas: No, I'll tile the tile.

0:27:55 Tom: The house is structurally tile. Yeah. Oh, God. But you know what I mean? Like there's an expectation there that just blows me away that like here's somebody in this scenario, like not really doing anything to get out of their own situation and very comfortable with saying you owe me a certain life and lifestyle. And I'm just like, fuck that. Like at some point. You got to at least put the fucking work in. And then if shit hits the fan, like I'll be there for you. Right. Like a hundred percent. Like if shit, it's the fan. I'll

0:28:15 Thomas: I don't get it. I don' t get it humans are so bad at seeing seeing the water they're swimming. It's just true. I mean, it's like whatever. If you're raised in that circumstance where everything is provided and that it was fine and you've never known any different. I not like you can all of a sudden drop into mine or Tom's perspective and be like, oh, I'm so grateful for, you know, the parents I have. Like, it just doesn't work. Humans suck at that.

0:28:53 Tom: But, you know, like Donovan and Finn and like we've never given I mean, very much the opposite of pressure. Right. Like we expect we've told them not very like we don't want you to get jobs while you're in college. We will provide everything. Your only job is to be in college, right? So you get like are both sort of just as people. Interested in their own independence. Like they're already showing signs of being interested in the idea of their own independence.

0:29:15 Tom: Other people just naturally have an inclination that doesn't lend them in that direction. And that's fine too. I like I'm like, not even judgmental about either direction. I think the, the part is like, man, at what point though? Like, like, is there a point where you're like, all right, man. Like you're fucking 30. You got to go.

0:29:32 Tom: Well, you can't live here anymore. Or like, You got to get a job. I like I'm just not going to do it anymore. Like, how do you just like that seems like a problem.

0:29:44 Eli: I think that there is a minimum standard of living difference between generations that is also very big and not spoken about very much. And the thing I think about quite a bit is so when I first started teaching six or eight years ago, when I when I First got like in front of a classroom, one of the classes that they requested was a money class. And forgive me cause I have to break character for a second. I'm actually pretty good with money and I'm also pretty good at explaining like the things about money that most people don't know.

0:30:13 Thomas: Is not true. This is a hell of a bit, Eli.

0:30:16 Eli: I know, I know it sucks. It sucks. I promise I'll go right back to it and I'll be like, and then I fell on my...

0:30:20 Tom: Get to the part where nobody gives you quarters or whatever because you'll eat them?

0:30:23 Eli: Yeah, I'll eat my quarters. Yeah, exactly And I teach this class and one of the things that I do very early on is I demonstrate that the rent Where the class is taking place is untenable, right? You cannot afford to live in a university town and overwhelmingly That's true. Everywhere I've ever taught it, I've been in New York City, I'm here in one of the fancy areas of New Jersey, and so I sort of go like, hey guys, look, you have to be making six figures to live in this part of the town. So now, you HAVE to live, and they sort of, I watch an entire classroom of kids go, oh, somewhere else, I have to live somewhere else. But Right? There was one year, and this is a student many, many years ago, so a girl sort of, as I was doing this, was like, that's not tenable. I have to live here in the village in York. And I was like okay, well, what's your rent? She was like $3 ,500 a month. And, I was, like, okay, I don't know any jobs that can support that entry level while you are trying to be an actor, right?

0:31:15 Tom: Jesus, fuck.

0:31:26 Eli: Like I obviously put it much more gently in the conversation that we actually had. So, you know, forgive me for being blunter than I was in person because I was obviously much more open, much more thoughtful in the moment. But like what it came down to is she could not abide the idea of those kind of sacrifices.

0:31:42 Eli: And I think that's what a lot of my generation goes through. Right. I think a lot does not want to live with their parents, or if they do want to have a certain amount of luxuries in their life, that there are things that are standard parts of having a quote -unquote good life, built -in products, built in spending to have good life. And it is untenable to think of life without those things. No, that's fair.

0:32:15 Thomas: Don't ever go for this generational bullshit. Sorry. I think there's there's some forces. But I

0:32:20 Eli: I'm talking about my friends only.

0:32:20 Thomas: Like I also think. Yeah.

0:32:22 Eli: I am not talking about a generation.

0:32:22 Thomas: I do. Well, you said your generation. I really think this is like. Part of the specific area you're in, you know, and it might be a product of that as well. Broadly speaking, I really think people are the same. I do think there are these forces that might create some of these things, but to a minor degree, but I just resist the generational stuff where it's like our generation. I just, I don't know, man. I know some, for I know nobody like that at all. None of my friends, even my friends who are somehow theater friends, but they're not New York theater friends I guess. So they always had to have jobs, you I don't know. Maybe it's a different mindset. Nobody thought they were going to make it big. They all just liked doing theater.

0:32:54 Eli: Possible. No. I mean, look, I understand that the generational thing is an over -sweeping generation, and I also understand that that is a straw man that both sides are using. Right? Is that, like, older people are using kids these days to excuse the fact that they've fucked up a bunch of systems that should be supporting people. And younger people are the straw man of, oh, you just think it's kids these day to avoid personal responsibility. Right? That argument is useless, I think, in both directions.

0:33:24 Tom: Yeah, I think if you're going to reject the idea that there's anything useful to say about generations and the sort of zeitgeist of a generation, you've got to play that in both directions. And I do think we're unfair about how we do that. We don't apply that retroactively in the same way. But all of as people who are parenting, Like how do you set – because like I don't want to set expectations where you feel like Thomas did, right, where you feels like you have no safety net, where it's like – because I think that leads – my experience with not understanding that I probably did have more safety nets than I thought. That led me to make a series of really conservative choices. It really hampered my ability to take risks with my life in ways that made me very, very unhappy for decades. So like, that's bad, right? It's bad to go extreme in one direction. It's really bad. I think it's really whatever you need you can fucking live in the basement or you know have your old bedroom and I'll be 80 and you'll be you know 65 and we'll just hang out like none of that's any good right like you can't do that either well

0:34:32 Thomas: Asterisk, I'm fine with that. He can live here. We'll play video games. I'm totally cool with it.

0:34:38 Eli: Dad, I found another Korok seed. Fuck yeah. Hey, buddy, happy 39th birthday.

0:34:46 Thomas: As he was for the first Korok Seed.

0:34:51 Eli: Funny because like that is very much where I am because we don't know how. Oh, I don't Know what the term is. People So will have to forgive me if this is not a good way to put it. But do a lot of reading and I try to put things correctly. We Because he's a little kid. And right now he's the little kid that flaps and slaps me in the face. He might be an adult. It's a good bit. It gets me every time.

0:35:08 Thomas: Great bit. So we know he's good at bits. Okay, we know that much.

0:35:20 Eli: He's good. He's got solid bits, but we don't know what his needs will be as an adult. And so my mindset and obviously this is very different having having a neuro spicy. It's shitty because I like neuro spicy 99 percent of the time. And this is where I don't like neuro Spicy because.

0:35:39 Thomas: Yeah, because there is a degree that it matters. Because Arlo's

0:35:43 Eli: Because the degree fucking matter.

0:35:45 Thomas: Not exactly that. And so the shade of difference is hard to capture there in vocabulary.

0:35:50 Eli: But like, there a parent of a kid with ASD, there we go, we did it. Mindset is, if he needs to live here forever and be taken forever until I am dead, at which point he will be rich, and then other people can take care of him, that's okay.

0:36:09 Thomas: Fucking fine by me. Yeah, same.

0:36:12 Tom: I think about independence, like of The reasons that's important to me is like I worry about my ability to provide and care for people forever. Come to understand, especially over the last six or seven years of my life. Like I've Come to understand that like can have a plan and everything can look one way and then through no fault or decisions of your own. Everything can sort of shift on a dime on you. And so as much as I might say like, oh, you know, like I'm 47 and I'm in great health and I've got a good job and I can set aside money and I take care of these people, like literally tomorrow, all of that could change, right? Literally tomorrow. So if I don't foster that independence with my kids and they do depend on me, that of like presupposes that I am perfectly dependable. Right.

0:37:00 Tom: And that I never need to burn through resources for my own care. Right. Or that like I never have to find myself in a position where I'm like, hey, there's not enough money to take care of my failing health or my wife's failing health and you. And now I have to make hard choices like independence is safer for everybody. So that's that's part of why I value it. For the kids right it's like it's not because I'm like oh get the fuck out of my house I want to turn your bedroom into a you closet know I mean I do but still yeah but like you know that is part of it like there's part of where it's yeah at some point I want I want a level yeah I want

0:37:33 Eli: I do want the fuck touch it.

0:37:27 Thomas: A fuck dungeon. It's part fuck dungeon, yeah. We're going to do a partial fuck dungeon it's not the whole thing though.

0:37:38 Eli: Go

0:37:43 Tom: There's a part of it where it's like, all right, at some point I do want a level of my own adult independence where I can be like, hey, I'm moving or I'm making choices that I only have to consider two people for. But also it's really unsafe for the kids. It's a really untenable spot.

0:37:45 Eli: Down here.

0:37:47 Thomas: This cat piss. Yeah. Well, that's why you all need to subscribe to Arlo's Twitch channel and make his dreams of being a streamer happen. You know, it's just that way it'll be independent.

0:38:10 Eli: Hell yeah. That's how I feel about it.

0:38:15 Tom: What you do for that? How do you foster that, I guess? It's not a rhetorical question.

0:38:19 Thomas: I don't. Well I I answer that I don'T think is very interesting. So I haven't been saying is the more I see my kids and how rock solid they have been in their personalities from day one. The more I wonder how much of that is even anything. I don't fucking know. Like I just think

0:38:33 Eli: Can you make a difference in that?

0:38:35 Thomas: I know that Remy. I know that Remy is going to be the most independent person. He already at the reason he screams at us to no end is because he can't be doing exactly what the fuck he wants to do at all times. And he won't even sit with us for like more than five seconds because he just wants to be doing his own shit. He'll he'll be like, I want to play outside and put on his shoes. Even if the other kids don't come with him, he'll just go outside. It's I mean, I guess I'm not 100 percent sure, but I don't know. Like, I think it's pretty built in. But also, I know how to account for the fact that, like, my parents' mindset definitely had an effect. Like there's no way it didn't. So I DON'T know. I really am just that's why I haven't really been able to, like forward a theory is that I kind of am. It changed a lot about what I think about how people are just to see how firmly formed my kids entire personalities were.

0:38:36 Tom: I worry about wonder about that, too. Yeah.

0:39:30 Eli: As someone who was really supported by their parents and whose parents sort of caught them when they fell and I fell a lot. I feel like, oh, there was no question I would have failed had my parents not been absolutely helicoptering every step of the way. Right? No kind of life -ruining trouble I didn't at least at one point get into. Right. Financial trouble, legal trouble, emotional trouble, relationship trouble, psychological trouble. I fell down all of those holes and Liz and David caught me every single time.

0:40:03 Tom: You know, I wonder if like part of the answer isn't just to it as simple as just telling the kids? Because I I don't want my kids to be 30 years old and saying, hey, you should forego your vacation to pay my health insurance. Like, I don'T want them to have that entitlement attitude. Is

0:40:18 Thomas: I do think setting the expectation must have an effect. It's got to have an effect. It has to. That's why I wonder if your coworker just always had some sort of, I don't know, way of interacting with their kids that made this seem like a possibility. Because this could put any kid in my house, that wouldn't be an outcome. It's like there's no fucking way.

0:40:37 Tom: The reason this sticks with me, what's so astonishing is that this is not a coddler at all. Like you would you would think that this would come from somebody who was like maybe overindulgent or, you coddled the kids or that sort of thing. This woman is not a coddler at all. She's a very kind of no-nonsense sort of person. And she's pretty no nonsense with the kids and pretty straightforward and upfront. And yet, you Yeah, I don't, it's not even just so much like, I would think less of them as people. You know, like if my kid called me at 30 years old and it's like, oh, I expect this from you. I'd be like, Oh, I like who you turned out to be.

0:41:25 Tom: Like you actually turned out be someone I don' like. And that would be very different than if they called me a 30 and said, Hey, can you loan me some money? I'm in trouble. I would be like yeah, a hundred percent. Like I'm here for you. Like there's such a big difference to me, you know?

0:41:39 Eli: Yeah, yep.

0:41:29 Thomas: Just don't think that, yeah, exactly. It's your coworker's fault. That's our verdict. She's something.

0:41:42 Tom: Don't know how, though. I've not been able to figure out how. Like, yeah.

0:41:44 Thomas: You don't know how their interactions are. You know, you never know.

0:41:46 Eli: Something wrong. Yep. Fucked up somehow. Bad mom.

0:41:50 Tom: Oh, my God. She is such not a bad mom.

0:41:54 Eli: Look, we all two to one.

0:41:54 Thomas: Or the dad? We should also two

0:41:56 Eli: Two to one, you're outvoted.

0:41:56 Tom: What's two moms? It's two mums. That's a thing.

0:41:58 Thomas: Moms. Okay. Well, there's your problem.

0:42:00 Eli: There's a problem right there. Am I right?

0:42:03 Tom: I I would want her to be my mom. Like I like she's like there's no dead monkeys anywhere in that house. It's it's amazing. It is amazing.

0:42:09 Eli: I was going to say the bar's on the fucking floor, Tom. All right, before we go, what does a Perverted Frog say? Rub it.

0:42:33 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads .com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, tom smith who also wrote and recorded the intro music which is used with his permission this podcast is a production of daddy issues llc copyright 2022 all rights reserved

0:43:14 Eli: All of us just love show tunes, Tom, you piece of shit.

0:43:17 Tom: Balls Illustrated.

0:43:20 Eli: The diseases that I made up and learned about on the internet.

0:43:25 Thomas: I was whacking it. What did you say?

0:43:27 Eli: It.