DOD190: Anatomy of a Not Cash Money Experience

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and honor dependent. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired.

0:00:22 Clip: Telling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's checked all the boxes for your box. I'm Tom Curry. I am joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:39 Eli: Hello.

0:00:41 Thomas: Big announcement, guys. Big announcement. As folks are hearing this, I will have had my balls chopped off by a doctor or whatever it was that Eli did. Yeah, I think so.

0:00:51 Tom: What? Your neutering is...

0:00:53 Thomas: I think it's going to be a big announcement. So it's tomorrow afternoon.

0:00:54 Tom: What day is your neutering? Oh, the

0:00:58 Thomas: It's I guess I'm doing it. I guess. I guess some going through with it.

0:00:58 Eli: Amazing.

0:00:58 Tom: Big day. Well... when you've got frozen vegetables on your nuts, man. Like that's, yeah,

0:01:04 Eli: I was just about to invite Tom over to the corner to have a bet about whether or not Tom is...

0:01:07 Thomas: You Well, that all the time. It has nothing to do with, okay.

0:01:11 Tom: Of actually getting your vasectomy in my mind have moved from 0 % to 9%. That's it.

0:01:17 Thomas: Well, how, okay, so how

0:01:19 Tom: That's generous for you.

0:01:19 Thomas: Do I have an appointment for tomorrow, you ask? Well, I'll tell you. I did, no, I followed up at some point. I did eventually, I don't remember, some number of months ago. It was after the time that I said I had to push a button thing or the app didn't work, whatever it was, the app link didn't look like it was supposed to work. And then two times after that, I messaged the doctor. I was like, hey, that app thing never worked. And he said like, oh, okay, call this number. And I was Like, that's impossible. So Yeah.

0:01:22 Tom: Phoebe made it for you, right?

0:01:23 Eli: Lydia pushed the button. Never.

0:01:47 Thomas: Well, or, and I might've even called, no, here's the new level of health for people like me, especially with Kaiser. As much as I love Kaiser, it actually good healthcare. They'll be like, Oh, okay. Call this number and you know what the number is. It's like 1 -800 -KISER, you know, it'll be be like, okay, hi, I think I'm calling for specifically the chop my balls off department appointment. They're like, no, this is just like, if healthcare.

0:01:47 Tom: No, no, it's not.

0:01:48 Eli: Thank you for calling Kaiser.

0:02:11 Thomas: Yeah. It's and I'm like, no, you don't give me a number. Everybody does this now. Has this happened to you?

0:02:14 Eli: If you're wearing a colorful hat, press

0:02:17 Thomas: Has this happen to you. They give you a number? You're like off. Okay, good. I'll call the direct note. Nope.

0:02:18 Eli: 1. Yeah, I

0:02:20 Tom: What do you mean, has this happened to you? This is America in 2025. There are no direct numbers.

0:02:26 Thomas: It's it's maddening

0:02:27 Eli: Don't think Tom has been off the phone with a health insurance company since 2018.

0:02:30 Thomas: Now. He's been recording one. We've actually had to get the consent of the healthcare agent that Tom's talking to to be on the show like you know those waivers or whatever

0:02:32 Tom: This happen to you, are you fucking kidding me?

0:02:33 Eli: Thank you, yeah.

0:02:42 Tom: Online. The pharmacies by us, they just no longer answer their phone at all. All you can do is leave a message. So that's the best. They're just like, yeah, we don't answer the phone.

0:02:48 Thomas: Cause everybody's calling them asking if their ADHD meds are in and they're like um no but

0:02:56 Tom: Yeah. So they literally went to a system called we don't answer the phone. And it's not even like they have a thing. When you call CVS now, the recording says, thanks for calling the pharmacy. Leave a message. Fuck off. And that's like the message. That's it.

0:03:09 Eli: I think it's weird they include the fuck off, but it's true, they do, yeah, yeah?

0:03:10 Thomas: Thanks for

0:03:11 Tom: Thought so, too. But, you know, at least I know where I stand with them.

0:03:14 Thomas: Calling the pharmacy we still have a phone for some reason but fuck off yeah Yeah. Uh, it'll be that thing where it's like, okay, call this number. I call high balls department and, make it.

0:03:23 Eli: Press one for assholes, two for balls, three

0:03:27 Thomas: I wish, I wish it was that I don't even get that. I'llbe like, this happens so often. I'm like, Hey, I, he, this is the number they gave me to schedule the thing. They'll be like, Oh, uh, Hmm. Okay. Do you know what doctor that's supposed to be? I'm fucking no, man. The The doctor just told me, call this number for your balls. I called the number for my balls.

0:03:27 Eli: For clits.

0:03:47 Thomas: I did it. Even though Eli and Tom said I would never do it, I did.

0:03:47 Eli: You You know what the best and most heartbreaking part of those hotline phone calls is, is that once every 97 calls, you get a competent person who wants to help. Right. You've been going through a field of voices. I won't do an imitation of telling you things that you can't do or just putting you on hold and then hanging up with you. And then you're a random Tuesday. You call and someone's like, hi, this is Kim. Oh, gosh, that's terrible. Yeah, no, let me fix that in the system right now.

0:04:21 Eli: All right, Mr. Bosnick, have a good one. You're like, Kim, don't ever get off the phone. Kim, just stay with me forever.

0:04:26 Thomas: My thing is like, how do I, how Do I pay get you? Can I send you something? Can I, you know, I'm always like, this is not.

0:04:32 Eli: What's your cell phone number? I will give you $1 ,000.

0:04:34 Thomas: Instead, I give you the same. Thank you. That I give the horrible people, you know, I'm just like, oh, thank you. You know, like I, there's gotta be some better way.

0:04:39 Eli: I give Kim a less enthusiastic thank you because I'm not trying to not crack the veneers of my teeth when I'm talking to Kim. When I've finished with person whose name I won't make up, I usually am like, oh my God. Well, I, hey, thank you. Well.

0:05:01 Eli: Man, we sure have done something today. Well I'm going to get off the phone now.

0:05:06 Thomas: So is the adhd way that I made this appointment so after doing that I'm gonna say probably two times not exaggerating I think it's two times I somehow accidentally did it and and I got a hold of someone the balls department I was like yeah I guess vasectomy and they're like okay and I was yeah when's the when's next appointment because I'm trying to you know do do this and they're like when's the next appointment uh we'll call you in the year 2028 when everybody's balls but yours are done or whatever because like I guess this is a very backed up procedure there's just like everybody wants to get it done relative to the to the balls doctors or something I don't know and so they I was like so what do I do they're like oh you know you can check in you can see if there's an appointment and I waslike oh well Well, we're back to back to where we were, back to where we were. And then, and then here's what happened. They just called me and said, do you want this appointment? And I was like, well, I, I guess, yeah, I guess I, like I've been tricked into like months later, I've forgotten that I had balls. I didn't even know anymore. And then they call me and they're like, do you want this appointment? I was like, okay. And so now, now here's what happened now. I'd have to un -ADHD to not have it. So that's why, you know, it's going to happen because it's like I haven't canceled it because that would be something and I I know what you're asking. What you're asking, what you'RE thinking is Thomas, have you shaved your balls yet? And the answer is no. I haven'T. I'm going to do it tonight because you don't want to go in with the five o 'clock scrote shadow. I think that's embarrassing.

0:06:37 Eli: That's true honestly if your pubes are growing at a five o 'clock shadow you need to you need donate your balls to charity so that they can figure yeah use it exactly

0:06:43 Thomas: I'm like it's a real faux pas to go in there.

0:06:46 Tom: I appreciate the shadow, though. That's like some Tucker Carlson, like, son -your -asshole kind of stuff when you're out there getting a little, hey, look at that, it's casting a shadow. It's about 3 o 'clock on the ball dial. That' great.

0:06:54 Eli: Six more weeks of winter but

0:06:58 Thomas: And so am I sure that I am done having kids no but I guess I am I asked lydia I said well are we done havingkids and she said well I'm done havingkids I said okay then I guess that means that I gotta go to the ball doctor I guess Yes. I don't know.

0:07:04 Tom: Yeah, you are.

0:07:05 Eli: You are you are after this yeah

0:07:12 Tom: That locks it in, yeah. I mean, what if you got another screamer out of it, though? Like, wouldn't that be a delight? You know, like another couple of years of just nonstop ear -splitting, mind -numbing screeching?

0:07:23 Thomas: I know, man, but all If I'm being honest with you and our Lord Jesus Christ, you all in the audience, I, would love another kid, but I understand that I'm the crazy person and we shouldn't do it. And there's speaking, it would be impossible for us to have another, it's impossible to have the three we have. It's actually impossible. We're not doing it. There's no way. So it's for the best.

0:07:50 Thomas: No, two is, two two is great two is good it's hard it was hard in the beginning obviously when you have a baby dude a baby's always hard but like once you got to the more than you more than the number of adults is really really hard um so that's the story so as people are hearing this I either have no balls or three depending on how it goes I think I know eli grew that extra one

0:07:50 Eli: Didn't seem great seems tough yeah I'm not outnumbering stuff And I can't do it.

0:08:14 Tom: Did.

0:08:14 Eli: I say this? If you're interested in having Thomas' baby, catch a load from him in the next 48 hours, and there is still a non -insignificant chance.

0:08:23 Thomas: We're down to 20 26 hours 26 hours everybody get

0:08:27 Eli: Well, yeah, get in there. Get there, Catch catch a Smith load. Catch Smith load! And

0:08:21 Tom: I mean could always throw some Spunksicles in your freezer, though, just in case. You know? Keep your... You know. Keep your options open.

0:08:39 Thomas: On it oh man I'm I'm holding we'll have an airport -com scene where will be out doctors fondling I'm doing whatever they do and then lydia will break in no we

0:08:46 Tom: If you're expecting a fondling, you're in for a rude awakening.

0:08:48 Thomas: Need

0:08:48 Eli: Hey, your doctor shouldn't fondle your balls, man. You're doing a Joey's Taylor situation here.

0:08:53 Thomas: What

0:08:50 Tom: That's... It's weird when you leave that much of a tip on the... If your doctor has a nightstand, I don't think that's a doctor, Thomas.

0:08:56 Eli: That's not good. Yeah. I mean, I like that you're comfortable.

0:08:59 Thomas: But lydia's gonna chase me down no don't do it we need another kid let's see

0:09:03 Eli: Need another kid. Who can scream even louder. Guys, do you know the only thing worse than the image of Lydia chasing a anthropomorphized testicle through an airport? Why? It's the auto ads. The interruption to your podcast listening experience. You know, I heard from someone the other day saying, Eli, I love the podcast, but I hate that part where you tell us that I can avoid the auto ads by, and then your metaphors, they extend too long. It goes too long, I'm already paying for the Patreon version. I got to hear this part. I don't enjoy it. So I'll just say, hey, if you don't like auto ads, head over to Patreon and you'll get nice, clean versions of the podcast like this. Patreon .com forward slash dear old dads. Little is a dollar, bonus episodes, parenting story at the end. Tom's sometimes there.

0:09:56 Eli: Tom some - Yeah, no, unless Haley has the sniffles.

0:09:54 Tom: Almost nearly sometimes always.

0:10:03 Eli: My wife's got a little bit of allergies this week, Tom. Do you mind if I miss a month of work? Oh, we have fun.

0:10:13 Thomas: So dudes I really have been wanting to have this conversation with y 'all because I have a friend who had an encounter that was like not the best and I really

0:10:25 Eli: Not cash money, if you will.

0:10:27 Thomas: Yeah but not not you know not like uh 9 -1 -1 you know, not like not like that but not cash money and I I really thought it would be great to talk about and by the way I got her permission 14 different times just I literally checked just now to make absolutely sure and I will check again in before we hit publish on this. So if you're hearing this, I have checked 90, 100 times and she has said, yes, please talk about it every time.

0:10:42 Eli: Smart. The person who's giving him his vasectomy is the one who's told him this story, so it's a twofer.

0:10:56 Thomas: Sorry. Sorry, it's on my throat.

0:10:58 Tom: A spunk -sicle.

0:11:00 Thomas: I wasn't supposed to eat those. Damn it. I thought that was one of my new low calorie snacks that

0:11:05 Eli: I think the fact that you thought it was lime flavor indicates a much larger problem.

0:11:09 Thomas: Cursed my ADHD. It was I who put this in here a second ago. So, who's a very good friend of mine, and the reason I want to talk about this is it's easy, I think, for us, for US dudes, to talk about the easy black and white issues with this. The easy, oh, yep, that fucking guy sucks. That's easy. I think – maybe I'm wrong – but I think that when I talk talk about this scenario, I think it won't be as clear to some dudes. And I think that's exactly the kind of conversation that actually maybe we need to do. Like, I just think that the goal of this show in many ways, to try to like, you know, as men, as dads, as dudes, as partners, as, you know, try ourselves and all that. I think this is one that maybe is important So, this sort of fresh off a pretty deep relationship. I it was over a year, I want to say. And she was, you know, pretty affected by it. So, a months out of a breakup and has felt not what she's ready for exactly kind of thing. Um she had this guy over that she had been talking to and and is really attracted to likes a lot and finally like having that date that with him kind of thing he came over and kind of was like oh how you know how did it go how was it kind says well um know we we hung out uh things were good etc etc and then we had had sex. I'm not really sure I wanted to. I mean, I was trying to say that I wanted to take it kind of slow, but I felt like he wasn't really listening. Was like I was 16 again and I didn't didn't want to have sex. I was like, oh shit, like, tell me more essentially, like what's going on. She said, I feel like it's hard to know if it was okay. I mean, we went to my bed after kissing on the couch for a while. We ended up in our underwear and I said, I wasn't sure I wanted to have sex. And he said, yeah, it's totally fine. You can stop me whenever you like. But then he went like a hundred percent all in instead of taking it a bit slow. Like he took his underwear off just a moment after. And I felt Like I was just letting it happen. I was okay at the end, but if he hadn't been so pushy physically, I would have said I didn't want to like just kissing and touching would have been enough for me. I think I'm OK, though, and I think he's a good guy. Maybe I don'T KNOW IF MAYBE I DIDN'T EXPLAIN PROPERLY WHAT I WANTED AND GAVE THE WRONG SIGNALS OR SOMETHING. SO I WAS LIKE, OKAY, YOU KNOW, STILL PROCESSING. Then I was like, we we Should all have a conversation like me, Lydia and this friend, because I felt like, obviously, Lydia would have a better understanding with this kind of interaction probably from from her end and the more we talked about it the more it was like yeah that was that was pretty not cool um I think what struck me is in the end he asked her like hey is this okay you know like hey it's okay we have sex and she said yes and the end though she had this to say and I just think that I like there's so many people and maybe I'm overreacting from just being on the shitty internet, you know, like YouTube or something. I feel Like there's So many dudes who will react maybe negatively to this idea. But in my mind, I had this thought of like, well, this is a girl who was into this guy, was attracted to him. Probably like she'd said at some point, like it might have been fine to have sex if it was, you better. You know, like she,

0:14:15 Thomas: This is not someone with any like to just make some shit up or decide, you know what I mean? It's like, it's this kind of interaction that I think we as dudes need to understand a little better. Now there I think think one of the scary things about me too, was the stories where as dudes we're like oh fuck is is there any of me in is there anywhere in this that I've you know like that's the anxiety that lot that I hope dudes have I think we should have the anxiety of hearing a woman tell any sort of story like this and think like oh f**k oh f*** have I ever done anything like this oh f**** we're racking everything and then what we do is I think мы're like relieved okay thank god no this guy suck he's never done on anything like I would do, I would do different, you know, and it's like there's that duality of reaction where I think if it's a very clear cut scenario, most dudes are comfortable being like, this is outrageous, this guy fucking sucks, et cetera, et cetera. If it's more ambiguous, then I think I see an opposite reaction, which is like this anger with the woman for even expressing any discomfort when, hey, he asked, he checked, that's consent. What more do you want? You know, like, and I just think it's those middle interactions that I think are really important. And as she told the story more, I think it did become clear that like, oh, maybe this was a little worse than she thought maybe at first telling, because she said she had already told him going into this, that she, you know, was probably, maybe not ready to have sex, like probably not, but like, wasn't you like a firm no, but it was like, yeah, I'm not, you're not quite ready. Feel like that's a totally normal thing. Like the guy started in with like making out right away like in the door make out make out um right to it and she's like okay no not wanting to do this uh that already was like yeah okay that's that's if you had been told by a girl hey I'm not sure I'm ready to have sex I leading off right away with a with that this feels feels like strong you kind of moved to me and then later she said that they were making out he had put his hand you downstairs and she physically grabbed his hand and moved it off I

0:16:12 Tom: A subtle piece of

0:16:14 Thomas: And right when she told me that yeah I was like okay what the fuck are you talking about because like yeah

0:16:14 Tom: Very difficult to body language right yeah right good

0:16:19 Eli: Hard to read those cues.

0:16:20 Thomas: So hard to read those signals and

0:16:21 Tom: Women should just like really tell us what they're looking for

0:16:23 Eli: She hadn't fully depressed the lever on the pepper spray is the thing. Like, she was pepper spraying me, but not at the full force. Not bear mace. It was just regular.

0:16:26 Tom: What am I a mind reader

0:16:29 Thomas: And And like right after that, I think was when he did ask, is this okay? She was like, yeah this is fine, what they were doing then, you there was some other stuff, but point is, that was where I was like, okay, that's, yeah that's far. But think the thing that killed me is that I know that in his mind, I know in his his mind, his story is going to be, well, I asked, I checked in. I said, Hey, is this okay? I said is stop. Het all right that we had set, you know, like he's going to have all those stories in his mind. And, um, was torn about whether to like, try to talk to him. What to say. Did eventually decide to message him and said, hey, I've been thinking about what happened and I ended up feeling a bit bit disregarded. I tried to say multiple times even before you came over that I wanted to take things slow. Even though you said you understood, it still felt like you kept pushing things forward. Instead of really listening and being considerate, you said, you can just say stop, which didn't really feel like the right approach to me. In a situation like that, I think it's more important to let the other person take most of the initiative. I think that made me go along with something that I wasn't really comfortable with from the start. There was nothing wrong with the sex itself, but afterwards I was was left with uneasy feeling like my boundaries weren't being taken into account. I wanted to bring it up because it didn't sit right with me. So that's the message that she sent him and he sent back. That was not my intention. I'm sorry to hear this. I didn't think there was anything wrong either. I thought I asked your consent in every step of the way. We weren't even supposed to go all the way you said yes to it. When I said, should I just just do that. I understand that maybe you set boundaries and now feel like they were violated, but yeah, I don't know. Again, my intention was the opposite of you making me feel bad, and I really enjoyed my time there. So, what do you make of this, gentlemen? Give me your thoughts. I'm just curious about this whole thing.

0:18:18 Eli: There's so much to talk about here, but our generation, our nation was raised with the yes or no model of consent, which is if someone says yes to sex, it is consensual. And if someone's says no, you are raping me right now. It is non -consensual and anything else is tricky. Right. Tricky always means it's not the guy's fault.

0:18:41 Eli: Right. There's never been a version where tricky meant we blame the guy. What needs to be understood from this moment. And I am so great. Like, again, my dad didn't do it in the like, proper loving way. But the reason I am So grateful to my dad for the threat he gave me, right, which a maybe, or a no, or anything other than yes, you stand up and you walk across the room, right? I was in several sexual situations in my life, exactly like this one, where someone said, hey, I want you to know, I'm not sure I want to have sex tonight, or I'm Okay, how far can I get, right? It's the fucking Grease song. Tell me more, tell me more.

0:19:33 Eli: Right? It is a model of how far did, what did you achieve sexually in that moment? And what men need to recognize in themselves is that when someone says, I'm not sure I want blank. Blank should stop being an option. That's what kind people do. And if you take that offer and you put it into any other situation, it becomes obvious, right?

0:20:01 Thomas: The spaghetti!

0:20:01 Eli: I come over to your house for dinner. Hey, Eli, what are you thinking about eating tonight? Ah, you know, what, what do you in the mood for? Um, well, I was thinking Italian food. I'm not sure I'm in the Come on! Let's get Italian food! I fucking love Italian food. Let's just eat a little mani.

0:20:17 Tom: Hey, I ordered some ziti. Is

0:20:18 Eli: I order mani -cuni.

0:20:18 Tom: That okay? I ordered the ziti, though. Is it okay?

0:20:20 Eli: I'll tell you what, I'm gonna start ordering a pizza.

0:20:21 Thomas: I'm gonna eat it in front of you yeah

0:20:23 Eli: Yeah, and you watch me eat a pizza, right?

0:20:23 Thomas: Tell me when to stop I'm

0:20:27 Tom: You didn't slap the zidi out of my hands. You wanted Italian food.

0:20:30 Eli: You didn't kill the delivery boy on his way over here, therefore...

0:20:34 Thomas: Going to put this spaghetti in your mouth you tell me win you say win

0:20:36 Eli: You tell me if you want to stop chewing. Yeah. I so obvious when you think about your sexual partner as a human being with autonomy instead of a conquest. Right. The reason why this conversation. Is so fraught and so bad is because the internet has post me too. And a little before me too, as well, the internet. Has divided us into perfect men and rapists.

0:21:08 Eli: And the reason why men don't have conversations like this, where talk about the subtleties of consent, about how you need enthusiastic consent, how it's fuck yes or no, the reason Why men don t have this conversation is because it would require some men to admit they have given women uncomfortable sexual experiences that may not have been rape, right? All bad sexual experiences, not all non -consensual sexual experiences are definitionally rape. But until men are willing to say, hey, this is a thing I did to someone else, this how I was raised, this what I thought was okay, and I now understand that it is not okay, until we're willing to do that, when these conversations come up, men who have done those things, they stay silent. Because they're afraid they're gonna be called rapists. And people end up doing the talking. The ones who are, oh my God, that's so obviously rape.

0:22:08 Eli: Right, yeah. That's so, obviously rape, what a raping rapist that raping, rapist must be.

0:22:07 Thomas: Baldoni and yeah yeah yeah

0:22:15 Eli: And misogynists who are aware that that non -consensual behavior is not good. But don't care, and so push back hard on people who had those bad experiences, because why didn't you say it

0:22:27 Thomas: Yeah why did you say why didn't you say what'd you say yes why did you do what did you just say yeah and I want to I want want to point out and not to interrupt you please continue but the word rape never used one not not a single time never used by her at all and and yet still I guarantee you it would be responded to widely as though she did like if this were just on the internet somewhere you know like on reddit and

0:22:31 Eli: It's course not, of coarse not. I mean, I, we talked about this back when we were doing the serious inquiries only debates. Um, one of the things that I talked about is like, they did a study years ago and I don't have it to hand. So forgive me. I'm probably going to get the numbers wrong. Uh, but they asked young men.

0:23:00 Thomas: The study and what it was about and who did it and and the results yeah I know

0:23:02 Tom: The source, yeah right, Jesus

0:23:02 Eli: And everything about it, right? Yeah. They asked young men, have you ever raped anybody? And the over, I think there were like less than 1 % said yes. And then they asked young man if they had involved them in behaviors that were very clearly rape, like threatening to strand someone unless they did sexual favors for you. Yeah.

0:23:11 Thomas: What you're talking about oh

0:23:20 Tom: Fucking Christ.

0:23:22 Thomas: Okay eli are you sure because I actually remember this one as being asking women Did they do both? Because there's also one.

0:23:27 Eli: Men and women. Yeah, they did. There's women as well. Yeah

0:23:29 Thomas: There was one where there's a percentage of women who insist they've never been raped or sexually assaulted, but answer yes to a lot of questions that are definitely rape and sexual assault.

0:23:37 Eli: And it's the same study. It's

0:23:38 Tom: I've seen that same thing, right

0:23:39 Eli: It's same study and, and the men, right. Who have done those things, right? Like held a person down until they agreed to sexual activity or, or the various questions. I mean, they're really, these are not like edge cases. These are very clear.

0:23:47 Thomas: Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, yeah.

0:23:49 Tom: Fucking Christ. So not ambiguous, right?

0:23:52 Eli: Yeah. This is fucking bad. God. If, if Marty McFly pulls you off and punches you in the head, we get it. Right levels of rape um those men who answered no I have never raped anybody said yes to this right because again the binary that men have been taught is that rapists are evil and worthy of murder right rapists That is why men are so unwilling to have these conversations and they're so fraught. And also, I'll add this to it, there's no room for vulnerability in these conversations, right? You cannot publicly say, hey, you know, I used to... be that cash money to my partners. And, you know, I think I definitely pressured some people into saying, you can't say that publicly. That's not a thing you're, that's not conversation you are allowed to say because someone somewhere gets to choose to label you a rapist. And because of how we now speak about that in opposed to Too Society, which is a good thing. It is good that we are a little harsher on rapists than we used to be. But because people are so afraid of that label, no one acts with that vulnerability. And I will say, to own my own shit, because know exactly the generation I grew up in and I know what the men around me were doing. If my dad had not had that very special, specific set of rules, I was 100 % raised in a mindset that would have taught me convincing people to have sex is an okay thing to do. 1 ,000%. Well,

0:25:29 Tom: There's a whole bunch of stuff I want to jump in on that and some of it in kind of reverse order. But I think there's really important issue that you raised that is related to this. And that's that idea that we can't say these things publicly. And I think also we're now living in a world where everything we say privately may become public. So that really does limit our ability to have intimate, vulnerable conversations. All. Right. Because we are in this place where it's like, fuck everything. There is everybody's got a bullhorn now. Everybody's got to platform. Everybody has been given a bull horn. I may be less comfortable connecting with my peers or mentors or other men in my life and like being hey, I had this experience. Was this OK? Did I do the right thing? I'm not sure how I how I felt about it afterwards. Right? Like. Live in a world where we don't allow for privacy to be genuinely private, we don' t get to have private conversations because the fear of publicity silos us off from those people that we would want to connect with. And they can give us advice on how to navigate our lives in intimate ways. That's bad. So like, even if you are not a public facing person, we still live with the threat of publicity. And I think that that really limits our ability to be vulnerable.

0:26:52 Thomas: Compound onto that are shitty justice system, because this is why I think some sort of actual like what is a restorative justice would be so valuable. I had this thought, too, because have a system where any admission like that, legally speaking, is death. And even when like the book I read about restorative justice, even when we're talking about like, you know, murders and other crimes where the perpetrator might want to try to apologize or reach out somewhat, which which, you know, obviously not going to fix it, but like I have to imagine a family might, you rather have that than someone silent, you you don't even know if they regret it or not. And yet you can't like you can'T because of our system. Them, you plus the dynamics you're talking about, Eli had the exact same thought, which is so, so unfortunate that it really is this game of, can we label the man a rapist or not? Yes, we can. Awesome. Okay. Everyone fuck this guy. Fuck. He's suck. He's a rape. You know? I think off the hook for like that behavior. That's, you you know, not cool, but no, no one's calling this rape. You she's not calling it rape. I think it lets us off the hook for that. I think let's off men the hook for actually accounting for that if we just are quick to try to label one way or the other,

0:28:04 Thomas: You know?

0:28:04 Tom: I think, not to go too far afield on this sort of side quest topic, but I do think it's important. Woman in this reached out to this guy. If I'm this guy and I did something and that was genuinely in my mind, that was not my intentions. Right. And I want to talk about a lot of that stuff in a minute. But like if those were not actually my intentions, if I just was raised like we said before, with a bad set of ideas and ideals around a goal driven sexual life about, that difference between getting sex from and having sex with. Which is such an important distinction that we don't make enough of a big deal about, but we should. If somebody reached out, it's like, fuck, like I not even feel comfortable responding in a genuine way where I get to say, oh my fucking God, I am so sorry.

0:28:51 Tom: Right. Because it's like, OK, well, this is now a text message that can be screenshot and could be shared with somebody and could become public. Our ability to engage the person to learn from that person has just been structurally diminished. We have been diminished in our ability to have honest and vulnerable conversations. Just not I don't know what to say about that or fix it, except for to be like people have to use the fucking telephone again. That's it. And that's a weird thing because nobody uses the phone and actually talks to their voices anymore. A real concern that I would have with that sort of thing. I think like the thing that strikes me as most important about this is if the the standard is supposed to be and should be and is enthusiastic, positive consent, we now have to teach people not to look for consent, but to look Right. And what does enthusiasm look like? And to Eli's point, like somebody starts off the conversation with, hey, I'm not sure, then like don't get to ask anymore. Right. Like that's not how that works now.

0:29:56 Eli: It's off the table.

0:29:58 Tom: Right?

0:29:58 Eli: It is.

0:29:59 Tom: It doesn't mean we can't do it, but it means that now that other person is going to have to transition there for me. If somebody says, I don't the way, I want to have actual intercourse, then that's awesome. But if you change your mind, you're saying that out loud or I'm not initiating that. Or you're grabbing my dick and putting it in you before I'm doing it. Yeah, right.

0:30:17 Thomas: Literally. Yes.

0:30:19 Eli: I would say that if someone completely enthusiastically changes their mind that evening, you still shouldn't do it on the off chance that they will regret that decision later. They should be allowed to cool their heels and make the conscious full -time evening decision of wanting to have sex. So if later in the evening someone's like, you know, I know I said I wasn't in the mood, but I really want to hunker, hunk, hanker, you should say, this is my genuine advice, you shouldn't say no because you don't know what's going on with a person whose mind can change that quickly.

0:30:56 Tom: I don't like that, personally. Like, I don' like that. I feel like that strips, treats people, specifically women in this circumstance, is what we're talking about, alright? I think that treats them like they don't have real agency to make choices in the moment. I think they do. I that we have to listen. If I believe you at 12 .03, I believe at 12 08, right? Difference is that at 12 03, if you said I don want to go all the way, you have know, sex. And then at 12 you say to me without my prompting or asking, get inside me, big boy. It's okay, right?

0:30:58 Thomas: I don't, I don'T either.

0:31:28 Eli: Let

0:31:28 Thomas: Clipping that. Matt? I too want to lecture Eli before you get a chance to respond, Eli. No I'm just kidding. Go ahead.

0:31:29 Eli: Me let explain why yeah, Yeah Yeah. Let me explain why. And it's not because I don't think women have the, uh, wherewithal to make that decision or because your partners don't have the wherewithal to make decision. I don't trust men to understand the difference between a genuinely changed mind and someone who's been convinced.

0:31:53 Thomas: Well, the difference would be, have you been working that whole night trying to pressure them and convince them?

0:31:58 Eli: Trust men to understand that or to internalize that. What I do understand, like a rule, right? The rule that my dad made for me was get up and walk across the room. Subtle rule he could have made for like an intelligent person who he respected would have been like, you know, hey, that's a time to stop and check in with your partner and make sure everything's OK. But you know what worked on teenage balls? Stand up and walk across the room. So the advice that I give on this microphone is if someone says I'm not sure about sex tonight, the answer should be no sex that night because I don't trust you to read the cues correctly and hey here's the good news if I'm wrong and they're like oh give me that sweet sweet sausage it's a fun little story about how sweet you were on their first date and you didn't kinda sorta rape anybody

0:32:51 Thomas: That's fair. Yeah. I think that like okay I want to I want to uh now uh am speculating right now I'm not taking my friend this is not my friend's words but I do just want to say that my impression of what's going on in those situations is that I think women often in this specific kind of situation uh there are okay with sex in the right circumstances like think the way you're looking at it like if for one I think you're right that that's the a a safe choice. And I do think that like, if people want to have an abundance of caution, absolutely. I don't think there's anything wrong with that choice. I just did share a bit of Tom's reaction when it felt a little bit like, then you're not treating women like they're making these decisions for reasons that are real. You know, it almost felt like you're treating it like this mystical thing that like I don' t know. Now the wind blows this way. It's like, I think that in this situation, my friend and I'll ask her after this and you won't hear this if I'm at all like way off base on this, but I think it's like, she was into this guy. She's interested in this guy she's she's attracted to this guy, but she's not wanting to be treated like just something to have sex with. And she's wanting in the course of the evening, if she's made to feel valuable and, and know it's a first date, not love, but like, you She's made To feel by this guy that he's valuing her for her and they hit it off and she's having a nice time. I think she's Having sex and is comfortable with And so I think that that that it's not so much of way is the wind blowing? Do I feel like, you know, I don't think that's what it is. I think it's and that because I believe if someone if is if man in that situation is being a good potential partner, then I think it's it's highly possible she won't have sex or she won't but like I think you can treat that as a real decision assuming there's not like a bunch of drinking involved which is a heavy caveat there I think if there's drinking involved then

0:34:34 Thomas: 100 % I'm with you Eli yeah

0:34:34 Eli: I just think, I think the stakes are just too fucking high, right? All credit to your friend right there. They're on the fence and they wanted this and they want that. It's got nothing to do with the autonomy of this person or their adulthood. It is about the simple stakes of someone walks in and says, hey, just so you know, I'm so sorry to do this. I didn't get a chance to clean. There might be a loaded gun somewhere in the apartment tonight.

0:35:00 Tom: Oh, I hate this analogy so much.

0:35:02 Thomas: I don't know what you're even talking about

0:35:02 Eli: I get up and I walk out because the chance that that gun will go off, the gun of non -consensual sex, is possible. What you're allowing the wind to blow in another direction is you are allowing yourself to be wrong. You're allowing that person to change their mind. You are allowing all these scenarios where non - consensual can happen. And all you have to do Right? Because you can have a bunch of sex with that person in your life. You've got forever to have as much sex as you want. Slap their butthole with your balls for the rest of your lives together if you want to.

0:35:37 Eli: But tonight is the only night where they've been like, hey, just so you know, the gun of non -consensual sex might go off.

0:35:37 Thomas: That so is the magic of a day's reset why wouldn't you just forever say well you said no once so never what's the was there some magical spell

0:35:48 Tom: I, yeah I don't, yeah... Yeah.

0:35:52 Eli: Well, because someone's introducing the interaction with, hey just so, you know I don't

0:35:57 Thomas: But But why would the future be like if tomorrow they're like, all right, I feel comfortable having sex now. Nope. You said you weren't comfortable that one time.

0:35:58 Eli: Want to because you weren't there, they had time to think about it on their own. All the, all the pressures.

0:36:09 Thomas: That's OK. Actually, I will grant little you that's that's fair if it's out of your presence and

0:36:11 Tom: Like this sends a bad message that women are capricious creatures that cannot be trusted. And I don't like that. Well, hang on.

0:36:20 Eli: I want to be very clear. This, this is not about women. This is about everybody.

0:36:24 Tom: No, I know. Look, I understand that that's the tack you're taking, but I think that also we're sort of lying a little bit when we pretend that enthusiasm is difficult to gauge. I just want to make sure that I say this out loud. Enthusiasm as a standard should be the standard, and enthusiasm is not difficult to not so like when we try to like put these kind of like crazy love you buddy but like crazy draconian like rules these binary things in place what we're sort of implying and not sort of what we are directly implying is that women are difficult to understand capricious creatures and we should be scared or worried that we are not reading the room properly that's kind of nonsense

0:36:45 Thomas: Boy, that's such a good point.

0:37:12 Eli: So I not putting this on women. I am saying that men are terrible at reading the room. So, uh,

0:37:20 Tom: But that's where I disagree with you. I think here's where I totally disagree to let me let me get get there I think men Intentionally do not read the room and the advice that we are giving here is not for men who are intentionally reading the room wrong They will continue to intentionally read the wrong because they have a mindset where what they are intending to do is to get sex from somebody If the goal is to have sex with somebody understanding and reading consent is not a big challenge. It's just not. Going to sell me that they're just like, man, I really couldn't figure that one out. That was a real moment. If who are trying to get sex from, they're guys that are trying that's who they are. We're not talking to those guys right now. We are not reaching those guys.

0:38:08 Eli: I understand that. But Thomas' story, right, if this guy who his friend interacted with is right? And we have to believe him, right. Because otherwise we have be like, this guy is lying about what he experienced, right! This is a guy who misread the room. This, the reason we are having this conversation is because a guy genuinely thinks he misreads the room, right

0:38:32 Tom: I don't believe that, I guess, is what I'm going to say.

0:38:33 Thomas: I'm kind of leaning toward Tom on this. I think, I think especially when you look at his response, which I really wanted to talk about, I did read it to you, but, she sent me that response first, me. That feels like someone who is trying to check the boxes of, am I the bad guy or not? And I really think that's the problem. That's the problems with the framing from the beginning. It's like, we know that there's these bad guys and there's, these not bad guys. And his response is not, oh shit. Oh my God. What did, if oh, you don't mind, please like, tell me what, specifically what, so that I know for next time or like for, you know, like, Hey, was there any way, which thing could I have done differently? You know, of that there was, well, I don't know. You specifically that one. I understand that maybe you set boundaries and now feel like they were violated, but yeah, I don't know. Like, no, they were violent.

0:39:17 Tom: I, like, here's the thing. Like,

0:39:19 Thomas: You know, it's like, no

0:39:19 Eli: This just puts us back into the mindset problem again, though, right? Which is if he's lying, right, which is what's currently being proposed, right. He didn't read the room He understood that she didn't want to.

0:39:30 Thomas: He's working on a different paradigm. He's working out a paradigm of no means no rather than yes means yes. And he's saying, I, by the technicality, check the bylaws. I don't know, man. Like I said, should I do it and

0:39:42 Tom: From the story that you told, if I understand it correctly from my memory, like she was like, I'm not sure like that I want to have sex or whatever. And then he's like, cool, cool. And Am I am I misreading that? Like, yeah. So so soon as you read that to me, I feel like that guy's fucking lying when he says anything other than I am here to see how far I can get.

0:39:54 Eli: That's what I heard. Yeah. Right, but what I'm proposing is a system where that guy doesn't have a loophole because we're not allowing takesies -backsies. A less non -consensual sex world is one where we go, hey, you know no means no? Now maybe means no.

0:40:26 Tom: Right. That. Yeah, I think I think maybe. Yeah. I don't disagree with you.

0:40:28 Thomas: I think maybe means no. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.

0:40:30 Tom: Maybe means no. But I'm saying that, like, I don'T want to send a message that like if a woman says, hey, you know what?

0:40:37 Thomas: Eli, if she grabs the phone is like, you know what? I want that spaghetti. Order that fucking spaghetti. And she orders the spaghetti and then she starts eating the spaghetti in front of you. I think you'd be like, I guess she changed her mind on the Italian food thing.

0:40:49 Tom: I, there is a message out there and I think it's bad, like objectively bad because it, it, It causes all sorts of other downstream problems, both sexually and not. There is a out there that like, you gotta be a mind reader to understand women that they, we can't trust the things that they say that we should be suspicious of their intentions that they're out to sort of regret trap into rape accusations, men, all this stuff. Of All that is nonsense. Again, understanding enthusiasm is not actually tough. It's just not. And I feel like we're rules when what we should be doing is helping to... Because who are these for, right? It's not for the people listening to this show. Who are these actually for?

0:41:32 Thomas: It might be. I don't know.

0:41:33 Tom: Maybe.

0:41:35 Thomas: It's for me in high school, if I'm being honest with you. Like, and, and that's where it really resonates. And Tom, I want to give you a because right when you said that, I thought back to high school and I thought back you know what? Like, yeah, it actually is really easy to tell enthusiasm from not enthusiasm. It just is. Is. And I think that, I think that dudes, when you're in that mindset of what what can I get? You know, how far can we go? Which is very, very high school mindset. Then it's just so clear that that's not the right thing. Like, it's just very clear.

0:41:37 Tom: But that... Yeah, right. So this... Yeah. Yeah.

0:42:06 Eli: But here's the difference, right? If we're talking to baby Thomas and baby Eli, and I have to be clear, we are, right, they might not be babies, they may be older than us, might be our same age, might younger than us. But there are single men listening to this podcast right now. And what I know, or I don't know why I made them single men, but there are men, there are people, there listening to this podcast to be right about whether or not someone has changed their mind. I do trust you to walk out of a building with your pants on. That's what I'm saying. And when the consequences are giving someone an experience this sad, this harmful, this painful, why not walk out the building with pants on? Pants

0:42:24 Thomas: In your area.

0:42:59 Tom: Hear what you're saying. It is a safe approach. It's a very safe approach, but like, I know that like Finn listens to this show now, right? I do. I know Finn is listening to this

0:43:08 Thomas: Even if you have sex, you should probably walk out with your pants on regardless.

0:43:08 Eli: On, buddy. Yeah. Oh no, I never wear pants the day I've had sex. I want the whole world to see this sticky.

0:43:15 Thomas: Whole rest of the day. Oh, we're

0:43:20 Eli: I'm a sticky boy who had a special time. That's the song I sing as I walk down the street.

0:43:24 Thomas: Going to get another saw. Here we go. Hit it. Another Eli special.

0:43:27 Eli: No, I told them it's just for the patrons, damn it.

0:43:33 Tom: I really do, Eli. I appreciate your approach. And I guess I would say this. Look, if you are a person who is like, you know what? Sometimes I don't read the room well. Eli's approach is a great approach. So maybe this is a know yourself moment, right?

0:43:46 Thomas: Yeah.

0:43:46 Tom: Know yourself. But I think like if you're a person is like you know, what? Like I feel really confident that I know the difference between enthusiasm and indifference, reluctance, just kind of a meh. If you the difference between those, and most of us do, right? Most of us then it's okay to trust the reversal. It really is fine. Women are trustworthy. They know what they want. They have agency. They're allowed to exercise and voice that agency. I don't want to pretend otherwise.

0:44:21 Thomas: One thing I really want to make sure to say, which is she wanted to make out, you know, and it's okay. This is another thing I think some some men needs to hear it's actually entirely fine and totally makes sense that women might want to, you don't want to hear that. Make out a little bit and not consent to sex. I know there's, there're men that need to here that and,

0:44:36 Eli: And this is very important. If you are a man person and you don't just want to make out, you get to draw a boundary of not making out. You are not a dog begging for treats at the door.

0:44:45 Thomas: That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair too. Yeah. Right.

0:44:49 Eli: What do I get today? A kiss? That's your sexual boundary.

0:44:53 Thomas: Yeah, no, that totally fair. Absolutely fair.

0:44:55 Tom: Yeah and if you just want to make out like if you're a guy that just wants to make like everybody gets to draw those lines well no like

0:45:00 Eli: Fucking weird. Kiss me on my mouth. Can you imagine? Fucking

0:45:08 Thomas: No, but I, no,

0:45:09 Tom: I broke up with the first girl that I, the first Girl I dated wanted to have sex before I wanted to Have sex with her, I was like, and I was pretty old, I Was like 17, 18 Yeah, she, she wanted to

0:45:15 Thomas: That's so Tom. This is so fucking Tom. Never spoke to her again. You're invisible to me. I wouldn't even be able to see where to put it in anyway.

0:45:27 Eli: You're fading from my vision as I speak. I'll

0:45:30 Thomas: But the reason I wanted to bring that up, though, is because I can remember a situation I was in like this with that exact situation where it was cool with making out, not cool with going further. And I was like, yeah, sure. That's awesome. That great. And exactly what Tom said. It's not that hard. I think in my opinion to just do the making out and 100 % of everything else is not going to be me. Anything goes anywhere further, it will literally be because someone else is initiating it and making it happen. It will not be me pushing for it. Even if I feel like things have gotten enthusiastic, maybe that's just enthusiastic making out. Maybe she's just really happy about the making out part. It will not be me initiating that going further. And I think that's a safe choice to

0:45:36 Eli: Spray. Hip throw.

0:46:14 Thomas: Make.

0:46:14 Eli: And I will speak from my experience. I have had several people in my life be like, I just want to make out tonight. And I have been like, let's go to a movie because I, and this is a very completely fair boundary to draw for yourself. I don't like anyone to go. Here's what you'll be doing sexually tonight. I like it. I tried it. It sucked.

0:46:39 Eli: So my boundary when clothes are on is someone goes, no. And I go, absolutely. Let's get Thai food.

0:46:47 Tom: Other thing that you brought up kind of to the side it's just I think it's super important too to talk about is like I do think that there is still a strong social expectation by all genders that men are supposed to be the assertive if not aggressive like we teach everyone to expect men to make the next move is very common. I'm not saying don't fucking send me your email that you're the outlier. Like, I'm Not saying that it's a hundred percent, but that is still very much the social expectation. Right. So I think that there are circumstances where it's like, oh, I thought he was going to do this next thing and he didn't do this Next thing, you know? And so, and you know, sometimes people can get judged as being like, Oh, like, I guess he wasn't that interested. Cause I wasn't you know like expect men to be the aggressors uh maybe that's not the right word but to be more assertive physically and sexually and like it's totally fine not to be that way too like that's fine like everybody gets it gets to decide like they don't want to do that

0:47:45 Eli: I've I've said this story. This was back when I was single and I took somebody back to my apartment and they just, the vibes were uncomfortable, right. Nothing bad happened, but just like we sat down and they did that sort of sit on a couch that an in trouble kid does. And Right. I was like, oh, these vibes are bad. Get the fuck out.

0:48:08 Eli: Let's go. And we were just I was, like, literally, I was just like, all right, let's set this in the place. You've seen it. Not much else to see here. And again, and the next morning I woke up to like a nine page text message about like, I thought you liked me. And as a gentleman, you're supposed to make the first move. And look, I think this person was. Very well -intentioned, right? I think they expected to be wooed in that moment. I don't think they were like, you should have sexually assaulted me. But whatever, whatever first move they were expecting me to make when the vibe sucked that much, I ain't making it. I ain' making it!

0:48:28 Thomas: Think you have told this story yeah yeah

0:48:53 Tom: So I think like to back to the original thing, like knowing that like the social expectation is for men to be more assertive physically and to kind of escalate very often to be the one that escalates from, you know, one stage of interaction to another stage of reaction, etc. Like if somebody puts the brakes on. 100 % of the ball is in their court, right, to your point that you were making, Thomas. Like 100 % if they're like, yeah, all I want to do is make out. Awesome sauce. All we're doing, though, is making out, and it's not going to be like we're making out and then I try to escalate and then you either accept or rebuff. That game is over. Because we set an expectation where we're not playing that sort of like test the fences thing. We're not 100 % not doing that.

0:49:34 Eli: Pants on.

0:49:32 Thomas: A hundred percent

0:49:35 Eli: I'm home. Cause I met home watching severance. That's how, you know, we're not having sex tonight. Cause, cause I'm at home

0:49:37 Thomas: Well that's I'm being honest I think high school me would have done the kind of like trying a little bit you know seeing like obviously I've never would have forced anything but like you felt like things were getting enthusiastic then it would have been like oh maybe I tried but now it's like absolutely Absolutely fucking not. Like there, there'll be no moving from the next phase to the next phase from me whatsoever without them doing it.

0:49:59 Eli: Watching query.

0:50:00 Tom: And and that that might

0:50:03 Thomas: Which is, yeah.

0:50:03 Tom: Mean that everybody walks away feeling a little disappointed too like I think that's something worth saying like that might that like you know we were making out and things started to get hot and heavy and the expectation is very often for you men to to escalate things but we've established a scenario where I am not escalating And oftentimes women are not escalating either. And so everyone's just going to be kind of like, and stuck. And that's fine. That's perfectly fine. Cause it has to be okay that nothing happened today. That has to fine.

0:50:31 Eli: Gentlemen. Step over into Ugly Men Corner with me. Tom, come on over. Thomas, welcome for the first time. This is Ugly Man Corner. Hey, Ugly men, step on in. You're funny. You have a personality. Congratulations. You grew one. People will let you take them on dates. Thank you, Tom. People won't let you. Not anymore, you're not. You were when we met. It was awesome. OG Tom.

0:50:47 Tom: It's cause I'm ugly.

0:50:54 Thomas: Everyone's like, whoa, Tom, Tom's back. Hey, Tom's here. Tom's there. Hey, everyone.

0:50:58 Eli: It was the best.

0:50:59 Thomas: The ugly corner, Tom, what, what, how'd it happen to you, buddy?

0:51:02 Eli: How many appetizers are we ordering is my question. Yeah, it was great. It was great, and then you abandoned us. You abandoned us, just I'm alone in this corner now. Thomas, you stay the fuck out of our corner.

0:51:06 Tom: That answer's never changed.

0:51:12 Thomas: Sorry, sorry.

0:51:12 Eli: Here's the thing. Here's the thing I'm going to say, okay? Sometimes people will let you take them on a date because you are funny and you grew that personality. And then the date will end and there will be a moment where you feel that person's fear and discomfort of your sexual approach, right? And if we're not honest about it, we're never going to make the world better, but you can feel it because I felt it, right. They go like, okay. Right? They're just, all of a sudden, they're scared of what you do. And if you go home, you're fine. Just go home. Just come home and watch Severance. Jerk off to whatever you want. Whatever she said, whatever you wanted in your head. Later. Later, write out a little, get ChatGPT to write it for you. They took off the safeguards. ChatGPD will say whatever you tell it to say at this point. Go the fuck. Home. You have been taught, you've been ingrained that you have to convince, that you need to wheedle, that beg, that ask. None of it. The right person will be like, toot toot, it's fucking time.

0:52:21 Eli: That's the only people you should be fucking.

0:52:21 Tom: It'S exactly right.

0:52:23 Thomas: I'll never forget when lydia said that to me for the first time

0:52:25 Eli: Dude, dude, it's fucking time or nothing. Don't listen to these assholes. These pieces of shit right here, they want you to just fucking sit in a room and read the room. You can't read a room. Tom believes in you. He's wrong. He is wrong. Tom can read a Room, but Tom also thinks nobody can tell when he's angry.

0:52:47 Eli: Can't read A Room. Stay home. Watch Severance. Right, gentlemen, before we go. Why did the...

0:53:02 Tom: Well, I hope that clarified

0:53:03 Eli: Why did The Book get thinner? Because it had its appendix removed.

0:53:01 Thomas: So good I did I think that's great

0:53:03 Tom: Things for everybody. Oh my God.

0:53:12 Thomas: Nice oh

0:53:18 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, tom smith who also wrote and recorded the intro music which is used with his permission this podcast is a production of daddy issues llc copyright 2022 all rights reserved

0:54:02 Eli: Press one for assholes, two for balls, three for clits.

0:54:08 Thomas: I called the number for my balls. I did it.

0:54:11 Eli: Smith load! And oh give me that sweet sweet sausage it's Slap their butthole with your balls for the rest of your lives together if you want to.

0:54:22 Tom: Inside me, big boy. It's

0:54:24 Eli: A sticky boy who had a special time. What do I get today? A kiss? Tell me more, tell me more. Right?

0:54:35 Tom: Hey, I ordered some ziti. Is that okay? I ordered the ziti, though. Is it okay?

0:54:41 Eli: So, obviously rape, what a raping rapist that raping, rapist must be. And I know I said I wasn't in the mood, but I really want to hunker, hunk, hanker, you

0:54:52 Tom: Jesus fucking Christ.

0:54:52 Thomas: Fucking Christ.

0:54:54 Eli: Kiss me on my mouth. Can you imagine? Fucking come home and watch Severance. Jerk toot toot, it's fucking time.

0:54:59 Tom: Awesome sauce.