WTW77: What Happens to Male Celebrities When They Give Bad Interviews?

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:42 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Where There's Woke. This is episode 77. I'm Thomas Smith. That over there is Lydia Smith. How you doing?

0:00:46 Lydia: Hello. I am doing okay. My voice is still gone.

0:00:50 Thomas: The way you answered that question, wow, it made me want to quit my job. Uh, I don't know how I'm gonna, for the longest time I've blamed myself. Yeah. It is time that Lydia Smith has taken down. People are tired of this behavior. They're tired of it.

0:00:57 Lydia: Yeah, for eight years. Dang. Wow. I know.

0:01:07 Thomas: So fucking ridiculous. So yes, we got to continue debunking the fuck out of of the idea that the hate on Blake Lively is warranted in any way whatsoever. By the way, when I say that, important time to say, I don't know Blake Lively. I have no fucking idea. I literally hadn't seen anything she was in. I swear to God, I had never seen a thing that I know of that she's been in. And if I did, I forgot. I don't care. She might actually be not that great of a person. It doesn't matter because what we need to be talking about is, is was this warranted relative to replacement level celebrity Hollywood stuff? Because any celebrity, you can find stories of people hating them and they're a monster or whatever, for the most part. There's like two exceptions and they're both men.

0:01:41 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Like Tom Holland.

0:01:51 Thomas: It'll be like Keanu Reeves and Tom Holland and the Fonz, Henry Winkler. Everyone loves Henry Wankler. And that's great for him. I love that. That's cool. But other than that, everybody has these stories. And so So this is not a Blake Lively is above all any and all criticism and is a deity. And I don't fucking give a shit about that. What I'm telling you is this is bullshit. This is absolutely bullshit. And this is part two of this is for this one, because this will be fun. I got to give you some examples of men in, I don' t even know if I could call it equivalent situations. It's going to be fun and it really like I've been thinking a lot about this and it's just really interesting to talk about the gender dynamics here and like how much of an uphill pill battle it is for, again, people who are not like the dominant demographic of society to try to speak up at all about their discomfort in any way. And how easy it is for men to get away with

0:01:56 Lydia: Oh, Henry Winkler. Mm hmm. Yeah Mm -Hmm. Yeah

0:02:46 Thomas: Stuff, essentially. So we'll take our little break and then we'll get to that. Congratulations on your little break.

0:02:52 Lydia: Congratulations on your little break.

0:02:54 Thomas: Fucking I quit. I quit my job. I quit. All right.

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0:03:02 Thomas: I know we've we've debunked this to death. We're not going to go through her videos anymore. Kirstie Flaa, because fuck that. Although I am going to make one point about her videos, which is she tried to kind of continue on this like celebrities behaving badly kick. And I think that was probably the Anne Hathaway one, which she had some success for that. She had a few other things, but she tried To do like the next one she did. It was two months ago. She posted this might might be my most uncomfortable interview experience ever. Interesting. And it's with Ezra Miller, who is insane.

0:03:40 Thomas: And this is nine minutes and I'm not going to play through the whole thing. He doesn't say anything that's like physically threatening or anything, but he's so fucking weird that I would be like, wow, am I in danger right now? Like this is a, this is to see.

0:03:54 Lydia: Yeah yeah

0:03:59 Clip: So so when people meet you now or like especially kids maybe are they like is this the flash is it credence? Are they kind of like what how do they approach you? That's how I feel when I'm trying to figure out how to approach myself You're talking about my internal process, but no kids don't know who I am. They're like You're stupid. Pay attention. That's what a kid said to me once There's like a three-year-old who just looked at me and was like pay attention And I was like you are absolutely right Where did you come from, you wise little sage, who gave you all these knowledges and powers? I guess it was God. And then he hit me. And he knocked my head three quarters of the way off my body, like nearly headless neck. And that's why I have this terrible scar. Do you see it? But I believe you. I was probably from that incident, though, because it was really, it changed a lot about my life.

0:05:00 Thomas: Yeah, it's just crazy. Ezra just goes crazy. And it's disturbing and weird and uncomfortable. The first thing I want to say is it's so interesting to see the comments. Because again, this is the double standard that exists. People are like, well, oh, wow, cocaine is a hell of a drug. This is why you don't do drugs. Yeah. Yeah! This one, he didn't seem like a bully to me. He seemed like he was completely full of himself and really high on something. I don't see his behavior as rude, but on a completely different planet than most people. They just monologued for a while, not letting Kirstie talk, by the way. But no, this is weird. It's kooky. It's wow, drugs. It is bad. I am not saying they like Ezra or that the commenters are like, this Is fine. But that is the key difference is they will find one thing, the earliest, thing, the earliest, easiest thing to completely dismiss the very existence of a woman who they want to. And then a male presenting person can be literally the most insane fucking person ever. I'm not saying they're fans of it, but it's just, they don't disqualify. That's the thing that's really key that I noticed, especially like arguing about fucking Trump and Hillary forever. It's not as though like there weren't criticisms of Hillary. There were valid criticisms of But it's the same thing we run into every time where there's a difference between a criticism and finding a way to discount someone's entire personhood instantly. Like they just, they just find something where it's disqualifying that they don't do with men where Trump had plenty of things, but it was, wasn't ever like, oh, and that's why we can't vote for him forever. It was like, ah, you know, yeah. Yeah.

0:05:19 Lydia: They're kooky yeah yeah ezra miller has like a very complicated history like legally and like uh abusively like that that people are responding in the comment section as if like none of that exists is kind of crazy to me too yeah but I mean it's the comments of people commenting on the video

0:06:57 Thomas: Yeah. Well, this interview is from 2018 or something or 2019. And well, and it's so funny because she's not doing the same like a Hollywood, you know, like it's, it's uncomfortable. It's weird. It's not, I was going to quit my job. Why didn't this make you want to quit your job? This would absolutely more make me want to quit my job then. Congrats on your little bump. This is insane.

0:07:07 Lydia: Now yeah yeah yeah

0:07:20 Thomas: So getting off the Kirstie Faw train, I just want to give more examples of of things that women could never do in a million fucking years and I this is my favorite this is my favorite one I forget if you know this but oh I love this one this is so

0:07:39 Clip: I want you off the fucking set, you prick. No, don't just be sorry. Think for one fucking second. The fuck are you doing? Are you professional or not? Do I fucking walk around and rip that?

0:08:01 Clip: Am I going to walk around and rip your fucking lights down in the middle of a scene? Then why the fuck are you walking right through like this in the background? What don't you fucking understand? You got any fucking idea about, hey, it's fucking distracting having somebody walking up behind Bryce in the Give me a fucking answer. What don't you get about it I was looking at the light oh good for you and

0:08:38 Lydia: Oh my God

0:08:39 Clip: How was it I hope it was fucking good because it's useless now isn't it

0:08:46 Thomas: Good it's so good we're

0:08:47 Clip: Fuck sake man you're amateur

0:08:49 Lydia: Geez like feels fake like Like,

0:08:55 Clip: Look gee yeah fucking something to say to this prick well somebody should be

0:08:57 Thomas: Not even we're Not even a third of the way through

0:09:00 Clip: Fucking watching and keeping an eye on him. This is the second time that he doesn't give a fuck about what is going on in front of the camera. All right. I'm trying to fucking do a scene here and I'm going, why the fuck is Shane walking in there? What is he doing there? Do you understand my mind is not in the scene if you're doing that? I absolutely apologize. Sorry, I did not mean

0:09:24 Thomas: I love this I want I want to keep going it's

0:09:24 Clip: Stay off the fucking set man Let's not take a fucking minute And let's not have you fucking walking in Can I have Tom put this on please? Can I get Tom Wardrop please? You're un-fucking-believable Number of times you're strolling the fucking round in the background around. I never had a DP behave like this. You don't fucking understand what it's like working with actors. That's what that is. That is what that is, man. I'm telling you. I am not asking, I am telling you, you wouldn't have done that otherwise. I want to fucking kick your fucking ass. You go fucking trash your lights do you want me to fucking trash them then why are you trashing my scene I'm not trying to you are trashing might seem you do it one more fucking time I ain't walking on this set if you're still hired I'm fucking serious you're a nice guy you're a nice but I don't fucking cut it when you're bullshitting and fucking around like this on set it yeah you might get it he doesn't fucking get it you might he does not get it good adjustments

0:09:27 Thomas: So fun it's So insane still going still

0:10:55 Clip: Okay for real honestly I get it walk for five seconds no I don't need any fucking walking he needs to stop walking I ain't the one walking let's get tom and put this back on let's go again seriously man you and me we're fucking done professionally

0:11:07 Thomas: Going by the way the movie was Terminator Salvation. Why? It's the movie you should care least about it. It wasn't The Godfather 2. And we all know this was in 2008 and Christian Bale never worked again after that. It's too bad. What happened? Is he still alive?

0:11:36 Lydia: Good question.

0:11:36 Thomas: What happened to him? Did he ever get a... It's Too Bad. You know, he had a good... He had a lot of potential, I think. It's Too Bad that he squandered it. Never to make another film. Nope. Totally fine. Totally fine. I just would love to play the, the, uh, just the, the side -by -side.

0:11:52 Clip: Now don't just be sorry, think for one fucking second, what the fuck are you doing?

0:11:56 Thomas: Hmm. So we got, okay, we got that. And then let's see. Let's see if we play the equivalent here.

0:12:05 Clip: First of all congrats on your little bump.

0:12:09 Thomas: Well, I guess I see how hers is worse. Now that I think about it, I guess, I get how that's worse than this.

0:12:14 Lydia: Oh, man. Man.

0:12:16 Clip: Are you professional or not?

0:12:17 Thomas: That's yeah.

0:12:19 Clip: Do I fucking walk around?

0:12:21 Thomas: I see it. Yeah, no, you're right. That'S worse. What she did was worse. Here's another fun one. I love this. We're gonna go to another actor who never worked again uh content note uh extreme racism on this one by the way for real another

0:12:35 Lydia: Who

0:12:36 Clip: I don't walk around in tight clothes, I stay at home for most of the time. Public and it's a f***ing embarrassment to me. You look like a f****** c*** on heat. And if you get raped by a pack of c***, it's your fault. Because you provoked it. You are provocatively dressed all the time with your fake boobs. You feel you have to show off in tight outfits and tight pants and stuff. And that green thing today was enough.

0:13:05 Lydia: Is that? No. Oh.

0:13:06 Thomas: Actor you never oh you don't know who that is oh it's mel gibson now Mel Gibson did take a reputational hit don't get me wrong but that should be career ending yeah uh -huh it is so it's way worse there's more to it's it's really racist and disturbing to be be honest with you. So I don't want to play more. It's awful. That's something that should be, oh, nevermind. You're done forever. Like if people had the reaction they have to Blake Lively saying congrats on your little bump to that, that would be great. Now Mel Gibson lost work. Sure. But he'd made a comeback. He's in stuff. Here's the thing. If I do a search for Blake Lively, I get we're in the midst of the thing I get. We're in this thing. There is not a single result that is not Blake Lively should be fucking

0:13:15 Lydia: Listen, he's an ambassador to Hollywood now. So thanks to Trump. Yeah.

0:13:25 Lydia: Yeah, I don't think I ever listened to that. Yeah. Yeah, mm hmm. Mm hmm.

0:13:53 Thomas: Dead. And she's the worst. If I search Mel Gibson, I have to specifically find this, you know, and I get there's a difference in time, but that shouldn't be how it is. This should be the end of Mel Gibson.

0:14:04 Lydia: Yeah Also, like he did stuff that was horrific over and over and over and over again like we're talking about like a moment that some people didn't like how she phrased a response That's crazy that that juxtaposition is there.

0:14:09 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, here's another fun one down memory lane.

0:14:22 Clip: Hey, I want to tell you something, okay? And I want to leave a message for you right now, because again, it's 10.30 here in New York on a Wednesday. And once again, I've made an ass of myself trying to get to a phone to call you at a specific time. When the time comes for me to make the phone call, I stop whatever I'm doing, and I go when I make that phone call. At 11 o'clock in the morning in Newark, and if you don't pick up the phone, at 10 o' clock at night. And you don't even have that goddamn phone turned on, I want you to know something, okay? I'm tired of playing this game with you. I'm leaving this message with you to tell you, you have insulted me for the last time. You don't have the brains or the decency as a human being. I don't give a damn that you're 12 years old or 11 years old or that your mother is a thorn with pain in the ass who doesn't care about what you do as far as I'm concerned. You have humiliated me for the last time with this phone. And when I come out there next week, I'm going to fly out there for the day just to straight you out on this issue.

0:15:35 Clip: I'm gonna let you know just how disappointed in you I am and how angry I am with you that you've done this to me again. You've made me feel like shit. And you've made me feel like a fool over and over and over again. And this crap you pull on me with this goddamn phone situation that you would never dream of doing to your mother and you do it to me constantly and over again, I am going to get on a plane or I'm going to come out there for the day and I'm gonna straighten your ass out when I see you. Do you understand me? I'm I'm going to really make sure you get it. I'mma turn around, then I'm gunna come home. So you better be ready Friday the 20th to meet with me. So I'ma let you know just how I feel about what a rude little pig you really are. You are a rude, thoughtless little pig, okay?

0:16:34 Lydia: That's so

0:16:36 Thomas: See how hers is worse, though. I, congrats on, you, you now, I, I get it. Like, it's, man, ah, maybe I should have thought more deeply about this, because that is worse. You know, than yelling at a 12 -year -old girl. Girl, your daughter, a 12 -year -old girl. And we all know that happened, I think it was like 2007. Alec Baldwin never worked again, was never in another thing.

0:16:36 Lydia: Crazy crazy yeah yeah it's so crazy yeah

0:17:02 Thomas: Here's what's the crazy part about it. The things these men are doing are actually representative of a horrible person. Look, I'm going to eventually play Christian Bale apologizing, which he does very well. It's hard because I like Christian Bale's work. Like, I like Christian Bate.

0:16:59 Lydia: Man yeah

0:17:19 Thomas: I actually really, really like Alec Baldwin as an actor. I've always known he's an asshole, so it hasn't been like a... I've never... I've kind of always had that, like, oh, I love him. I like his acting and know he's an asshole at the same time and haven't really... You know, it's... Yep. To a 12

0:17:26 Lydia: I do think it's one thing to be an asshole to other grown -ups it's another thing to being an asshole like that to a

0:17:36 Thomas: -year -old girl. And to my point, they're going to say, these men will all say, ah, you know, I got angry.

0:17:36 Lydia: Child and to like your kid yeah yeah

0:17:44 Thomas: But it's like, I don't care how mad I ever get in my whole entire life. I would never do something like that. It's not possible. And so while a split second, congrats on your little bump, is disqualifying her as a human, she's not a human anymore. They go into this like, well, she is a narcissist. You can tell how she is. They go into this extreme psychoanalysis of how she's a pathological narcissist. She is a psychopath. Like this is you see all this it's non -stop she's a psychopath abuser but then a man yells first off no one cares or it's like oh what oh man it was funny that he's mad in that moment and we don't go like geez what kind of person could possibly do that it's crazy oh

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0:18:33 Thomas: Here's the one that I love I think is a great direct comparison

0:18:36 Clip: I'll tell you a story. This is true. I'm not gonna use any names, but I was away on making bag, and she told me she had been raped. But she handled the situation of the rape in the most extraordinary way but my immediate reaction was did she know who it was? No what colour were they? She said it was a black person I went up and down areas with a kosh approached by somebody I'm ashamed to say that and I did it for maybe a week hoping some black bastard would come out of a pub and have a go at me about something you know so that I could kill him and it was that it took me a week maybe a we gonna have to kind of go for that she said It was horrible, horrible when I think back, But I did learn a lesson from it

0:20:02 Thomas: Here he learned a lesson

0:20:02 Clip: When I eventually thought, what the fuck are you doing, you now? And I come from a society, I grew up in Northern Ireland and the Troubles, And, you know, I knew a couple of guys that died on hunger strike. And I had acquaintances that were very caught up in the troubles. And I understand that need for revenge. But it just leads to more revenge and more killing and more And, I heard a norm that is proof of that. All the stuff that's happening in the world at the minute,

0:20:37 Thomas: Yeah yeah it's what he learned was revenge isn't good that's what he learned

0:20:42 Lydia: It was kind of interesting to me that he's like oh that's It's the first time I've told anyone about that. Like, maybe you should have told a therapist about that first. Like, figure that out.

0:20:49 Thomas: If you look at the comments under where he you know clarified his revenge remarks and said he wasn't racist everybody is so quick to not only accept that everything is fine with Liam Neeson but how dare anyone even be upset about this this was one where I covered at the time and I still can't believe there might be some people who don't understand that you can't confess to, I wanted to go kill a black person at random. I literally wanted to commit a race murder at random because I was mad. And then I learned that you shouldn't get so mad. It's like, no, man. The part you needed to learn most was you don't punish an entire race of people and potentially commit racial violence because of one individual's actions. If he had told the story, I think he told the story as it happened. So fair enough. But if what had happened had been, oh, you were raped, who did it? I'm going to go find them and kill them. If the story had been and I walked around just hoping I would find that guy and I would kill him. I don't think anyone would have. I mean, I'd be like, yeah, it's not good, but like I get it. Like I would get that reaction. That's an anger reaction. But he was completely oblivious to this day. I think it was completely completely oblivious, about the obvious racism of saying, I'm going to go find someone of the same color skin and murder them. And people are like, he isn't a racist. Let the man be. And then a bunch of what I can only imagine are definitely real people. As a black man, I give respect to this man. Society, men, talk about

0:21:10 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Mm-huh. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah, it's so crazy. Mm.

0:22:30 Thomas: Your feelings. Men talking about their feelings. Society. We actually weren't ready for that. I don't think he's racist. It's amazing. You have to appreciate the amount of courage it took for him to say that. It is incredible. The amount will bend over backwards. And as we all know, six years ago, Liam Neeson never made another film, never in another thing. So what I also did was, and we don't have to go through it, but to further illustrate the point, I was looking for like, oh, celebrities that ruin their career with one interview. And that's a topic. And I noticed something about them. Them again, 20 celebrities that ruined their careers with one interview. They don't all fit exactly, but let me just list them and see if you notice something. Joaquin Phoenix, Tom Cruise, Piers Morgan, Liam Neeson. That's it was this one. Michael Jackson, Lance Armstrong, Paula Abdul, Catherine Heigl, Megan Fox, R Kelly. First off, ruin their careers. Joachin Phoenix. Tom Cruise. Who's Liam Neeson, Piers? No, they're still exactly. So R. Kelly, that interview was crazy. It's the member, the one where he's like yelling like he's

0:23:24 Lydia: Mm. Yeah, they're all still... Also, R. Kelly ruined his career doing something else. I don't know if I've seen that.

0:23:40 Thomas: It's insane. I mean, it is insane. Yeah.

0:23:42 Clip: How stupid would it be for me to, with my crazy past and what I've been through, oh, right now I just think I need to be a monster and hold girls against their will, chain them up in my basement, and don't let them eat, and don' let them out, unless they need some shoes down the street from their uncle. Stop it. Y'all quit playing. Quit playing. I didn't do this stuff. This is not me, y'all. I'm fighting for my life. Y'all killing me with this s***. I gave y'all 30 years Robert. 30 years of my career.

0:24:24 Clip: YOU KILLING ME, MAN. THIS THING IS NOT ABOUT MUSIC. I'M TRYIN' TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH MY KIDS AND I CAN'T Y' ALL JUST DON'T WANNA BELIEVE THE TRUTH.

0:24:40 Thomas: The people who actually, quote unquote, ruin their careers with one interview, you could say Lance Armstrong, but I don't know if it mattered. I think it was after the fact and he admitted to doping. So that should ruin people's esteem for him. R. Kelly is a fucking nut job criminal.

0:24:49 Lydia: Mm. Right. Yeah, you cheated. Serial rapist. Yeah. Yeah, when

0:24:58 Thomas: Yeah, serial, yeah, that should ruin his career. The female examples of Megan Fox, Katherine Heigl, and Paula Abdul. Now, Paula Abdul was really like high or something. She was on substances. She might, and I don't know if she had a substance abuse problem. She probably did. I think it was 13 years ago. That one's not great. The Katherine Heigl one is weird because it's like nothing. That one's weird. Megan Fox rocks. So on one hand, we have, I think, three categories here. We have men who did things that were fucking insane, whose careers were not ruined. Tom Cruise. Joaquin Phoenix is a weird one. I mean, he did that Letterman appearance. Like, again, that's a thing that only a man can do. You can say, well, but it turned out it was for a movie. It's like, yeah, but that's crazy. He just went went and ruined a David Letterman night by just not talking because it was like, that's okay. I mean, I guess, but the point is that's very weird and it definitely didn't affect him in any way. Piers Morgan, that'S a little tricky cause he's political. So, you know, those kinds of people, I think people on the left don't give a shit and people onthe right are fine with him cause he'S on the right, but his career is not over. Tom Cruise. Was Tom Cruise's career ruined after the couch thing, hon? Did he? Never made another film after that.

0:25:14 Lydia: Was that? Okay. Yeah yeah. Yeah no no

0:26:17 Thomas: Not even Michael Jackson. That interview was very weird where he talks about like, it's not weird that he sleeps with a child or whatever the hell it was. The point is there's three categories. There's men who did something incredibly weird whose careers absolutely weren't ruined. There're a couple men who did something criminal or horrible whose careers actually should have been ruined and they kind kind of were. And then there's women who had kind of bad interviews.

0:26:47 Thomas: It's like, it illustrates the very point that we're so quick to completely disqualify women, whereas men get chance after chance after chance. And when they are ruined, it's because they finally did something so goddamn horrible that there's no denying it.

0:27:03 Lydia: We can even dial it in even more so right where we're not talking about one -on -one interviews like we can talk specifically about differences in press tour where it is like these quick repetitive things I mean like sad affleck right the whole meme about where Ben Affleck is just looking down. He looks sad for all of these questions during press tour for Batman versus Superman. And people just thought it was funny. But if you're the interviewer, it's kind of rude. That's sort of a rude interaction. I want to start by saying that I think, honestly, one of the biggest things that I feel people will hopefully learn from this is that press tours suck. They just suck. Well, yeah, I know. But I hope that's a little other thing that people learn from this that like press tours are so bad like and I know but

0:27:44 Thomas: That's not among the biggest thing that I hope people learn from this no one cares they only care because they want to take down Blake Lively no one cares about press tours yeah

0:27:56 Lydia: Well I guess I'm looking at it from the angle for like the actors too like for the industry and like you know jonah hill problematic guy but like he has explicitly said he will not do press tour anymore because of his mental health it caused anxiety attacks for him I sent you a video actually where they did an oscar roundtable and brad pitt another problematic guybut he speaks about this

0:28:09 Thomas: Right oh here we go

0:28:15 Clip: Well, now I'm on my own soapbox. It's the other thing that you didn't sign up for, that suddenly you get to put yourself out in a film, you lay it on the line, and that's what you believe your job is. But then there's this whole other entity that you get sucked into, and it's this publicity machine that you have to go and sell your wares. And it's something I've never made my peace with. I wrestle with it, and it gets out of control. Somehow you're not supporting your film if you don't get out and get on a show and talk about your personal life. I don't know, I find it so, like, it just has such a bad feeling. And it has nothing to do with what I, you know, why I do this.

0:28:55 Lydia: And I think that's a fair perspective to have there I mean and and like there are other examples where You know, like Harrison Ford has kind of made a name for himself in the press tour industry. They call him grumpy. Like that's how they frame his interactions with the press while he's promoting films. There's a 2013 article in The Wire where it says, quote, it's a universally acknowledged truth that Harrison Ford is sort of a grump. He's been especially grouchy in his later years, giving hilariously gruff, contentious interviews to various magazines of record. Today, Zach Barron of GQ posted an Ender's Game interview with Ford, who, Barron writes, manages to give a couple of full -sentence replies. Take, for instance, this exchange. Question, what was it like filming a space movie in the age of CGI? Does it force you to work differently? Harrison Ford answers, no, acting is about using your imagination. That's it. It question is there a trick to making seemingly ridiculous dialogue like when the aliens first invaded work answer yeah that's my job that's why I get paid and no one is categorizing this as like what a rude person for not engaging in this in this question and answer like that interviewer deserved way more etc etc he's a bully they just say oh you know what a grouch what a grumpy guy it's endearing for men yeah

0:28:56 Thomas: Oh totally valid yeah yeah he should never work again yeah yeah it gets to be a character trait or a thing that like we all the world, that's what it is. Oh, well, that is how he is. The world shall adjust. But when it is a woman expressing any discomfort, no, the fuck you are not. You need to change.

0:30:34 Lydia: Yeah how dare you have boundaries

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0:30:42 Thomas: And there is another thing. So, I referenced the Christian Bale apology. And I want to play this. And it is along those lines because it really got me thinking about the dynamics that lead to that.

0:30:58 Clip: Oh, this is Ralph, Kevin and Bean, and Lisa May is also here in the studio, Christian. All right, well, listen, I spoke with you guys a few years back. Are we being punked right here, Ralph? Believe me, this is no punk. Christian has apparently heard some of the segments we've been doing since the release of that audio tape. Listen, it has been a miserable week for me. And you guys, I was driving in the car. At least I think it was you guys I was listening to. And you made me laugh in the midst of all this craziness. I find that hard to believe really so listen I I know I have a potty mouth everybody knows that now right but I understand this is live so please don't worry I will behave if you don't we are done professionally now listen so can you let can you make me make a few comments yes sure we'd love to love to give you the opportunity thank you for calling the thing that I really want to stress is I have no confusion whatsoever I was out of order beyond belief I was way out of water I acted like a punk I regret that and there is nobody that has heard that tape that is hit harder by it than me so I make no excuses for it is inexcusable and I hope that that is absolutely clear you know one thing that has really disturbed me throughout this because because I'm just I'm not I'm familiar I'm not comfortable yet with this notion of being a movie star I've always I'm an actor and and I don't quite know how to handle the movie star thing and the the thing that disturbs me so much is that I've heard a lot of people saying that I seem to think I'm better than anybody else and nothing could be farther from the truth I am a lucky I don't want to swear I'm a lucky sob right what I do I never forget that and that is why I put so much into what I and why I care so much about it and why sometimes that enthusiasm just just just goes awry you know and

0:33:15 Thomas: I would play this whole thing. It is 10 minutes. But yeah, I listened to the whole thing and it's so interesting to think about because for one it's like yes I mean he did pretty much probably like the best apologizing you can do for something like that and it comes across it's charming it's you have this feeling I mean don't let me speak for you if I'm wrong but you have feeling of like oh yes he gets it oh he's it's yeah yeah I was actually gonna say that same thing but like you have that feeling and I thought about it and he goes on he talks about how the guy he apologized that day and like he's like, oh, people said it almost got physical, which, yeah, you heard in the fucking recording. He's like it didn't get physical. That guy's way bigger than me. Never would have gotten physical. I didn't really believe what I was saying. I was in the moment of the character of, you know, because my character was supposed to be a little crazy in that scene.

0:33:39 Lydia: How the yeah the woman responded like oh that wasn't me folks that that was yeah yeah and not not to treat crew badly that set is a safe place to experiment with yeah

0:34:07 Thomas: And he actually has another insightful point, which is I think one of the radio idiots is like, Like, oh, and, you know, a set is a safe space to experiment and kind of thing. And Christian Bale says, oh yeah, but that shouldn't cover up bad behavior. Like that's not the point of that is not to, so like he says all the things. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he makes that point and he does pretty much all the thing. He does all the apology, all the thanks. But I was thinking about it and I was like, in real terms though, that's like what he did was insane. Saying. And if Alec Baldwin, I haven't looked it up, but if he did an apology where he hit all the notes, let's say that you could. Yeah, but no, like in real terms, what should be happening is I don't think you could ever apologize for that, especially Alec Baldwin. I don'T think you could ever apologise for saying those things to a 12 year old girl. I DON'T KNOW. I mean, I DON'T SAY NEVER AS IN HE SHOULD NEVER BE CAST OUT OF SOCIETY, BUT LIKE I DO NOT KNOW THAT you should really be like a celebrity after that. I think that should be like, all right, you know, like you're around, but like that's fucking that's really bad. You know, that's like, as I said earlier, that such an actual look into someone's bad character and this Christian Bale thing. I mean, you you just find yourself wanting to excuse it. You find yourself being like, oh, what do you use in character? He's not really that. And maybe that's true. But when I found myself wanting to accuse it, I was just thinking, you you know, my first thought was, imagine how scary that must have been in that moment. Terrifying, terrifying, actually terrifying. And my first I was like, yeah. And like, imagine How Not Terrifying it is to hear congrats on your little bum and the difference there, obviously. But then I also realized, like, that's kind of I think that might be the bottom line, very basic evolutionary, if you want to call it that reason why some of this dynamic exists. If a man is very angry and yelly and genuinely scary and then wants to apologize you want to be like oh thank god oh fucking yeah oh man yeah I get it obviously because like just historically just because of who men are and who women are yeah if

0:34:29 Lydia: Acting yeah yeah I did think yeah he repaired the relationship with his daughter but yeah mm -hmm yeah mm -hm yeah power yeah

0:36:25 Thomas: A scary dangerous person will say is scary and dangerous and then want to apologize to make it okay it's in your interest of safety to make it okay. And I think that there's no way that that isn't a lesson that is learned. It's just almost an instinctual level. It doesn't apply in every situation. Now you could say, well, now we're not in that situation. Like you could call the, yeah, but okay. We're dealing with base instincts here. Like we're dealing avec how we perceive people. And I really think that is tied to these dynamics where you want it to be okay. You are desperate psychologically, I think, for this to be okay. Because then that's one less scary, dangerous thing happening in that moment. Whereas women, we're not scared of women. Our society is not scared of women in this way. Society is not worried about women kicking our ass. We're just not. We're not as a society. We're nicht worried about that. So for women, when they step slightly out of line, we can be like, you know what? Fuck you. We hate you forever. What are you going to do about it? What are going to go about it that I really think that's what's going on? I think that's a huge part of this whole dynamic. And it's like it's depressing. It was just a realization I had just thinking about how scary scary he would have been and how much that makes you want to forgive someone. And then like just the pure physical differences going back through time being a reason why like you just don't feel that. Like women are the ones who have to conform because of that danger. We don't have to conform to women. We do not have to sit there and be like, well, I guess that is just how that woman is. I guess it is just like Harrison Ford is. You know, like we do not do that. We are not accommodating to that whatsoever. It is really interesting. And here is another thing that makes makes me think of. People might say, and I think this is almost a point, people might say yeah but but Blake didn't even apologize. All she has to do, a lot of them say that, all she has to do is apologize and we'd be fine. First off, no you wouldn't. Secondly, she's currently in a legal situation and let me tell you from experience you cannot fucking dare apologize. Our legal system sucks. If she admits any wrongdoing or any hand in her reputation going going south, that will be exhibit A1 in the case against her trying to capture damages, even if she did deserve them. Again, even if we want

0:36:35 Lydia: Yeah mmhm mmhm yeah mmhmm yeah Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that, too. There's no way. Yeah, yeah. Dismissing those claims. Yeah? Yeah. Mm hmm.

0:38:43 Thomas: To say hypothetically, she's responsible for, I don't know, 20 % and he's responsible for 80 % or whatever. You cannot admit that. You absolutely cannot because of the legal system. But also think about, again, if we talk about this as kind of a longstanding gender dynamic, possibly, this is just me theorizing, maybe I'm wrong, but like, I think that's got a lot to do with it. Just imagine going through time and having this dynamic where men like Christian Bale apologize and they get that reaction. You get, you almost like him more. And imagine over time that learned behavior. Oh, I can apologize. And I get that rejection. And women being like, well, if I even try to apologize for one, I have to apologize für behavior that's one, one billionth as bad.

0:39:26 Thomas: And I don't feel like I should have to apologise for that. I would think if it were me. And two, Two, when they apologize, I don't even know that it's accepted. Yeah, too little, too late. She's just trying to give narcissists, trying to get our affection back. And so it's like, for that reason, what are people going to learn over time? What are men going to learned over time and what are women going to learn over about what's acceptable and how they can apologize and how it will be received? You know, it's all a load of bullshit is what I want to say. That is my grand thesis here. And we didn't even get to talk about the fact that this is the same YouTube audience. Against youtube tiktok a big reason we're covering this on gavel gavel is this is the same misinformation anti-woke conservative reactionary force that is responsible for trump in the world ending like it may be some of the very same people and we know ben shapiro is covering it we know but like if you want to listen to the gavel gal which you should we're eventually going to get into it like the allegation of the media manipulation the social media manipulation and the fact that there is this angry crowd. There's another thing that I'm going to cover and I don't know on which show yet, but then there's this feedback loop too, where people on YouTube and TikTok realize that that's what gets them the views. And then there's This Feedback Loop. And it's really interesting because Gavel Gavel being a law show and coming at things from that angle, I have a bunch of examples of lawyers forgetting how to be a lawyer or conveniently forgetting what law is in order to capitalize on this misogynistic hatred. And it is so emblematic of everything the show and all our projects are about. It's the reactionary, anti -feminist, anti broadly woke emotion that is so easy for people to feel and so difficult to fight against. And it leads to so much misinformation. It leads people to not question things. It leads to people to be unskeptical when it's something like, oh, angry college kid doing that. They just accept it at face value because it's everything that they want. It's everything. It's all their biases packaged into a nice, neat thing. And to end with where we began, that book of scientists writing about how the biggest threat to science is the woke in this moment when like, you might as well have Trump and an Elon destroying a thing, literal thing called science. And they might as well be dipping it into a volcano. And then those people being like, see, it's the woke people that did it. An anti -woke

0:40:41 Lydia: Mm hmm. Mm hm. Mm. Yeah I mean, who knows what kind of flu shot we're gonna have next year? I guess so.

0:41:55 Thomas: One that's going to get rid of the woke. It'll be bleach. So I hope folks found that interesting, as interesting as I did. It's really just, I just can't stop thinking about this. It's so fascinating.

0:42:07 Lydia: Just to kind of tease, I think some of the direction we're gonna go on this show with the coverage to coming up, we're going to be talking a little bit about that right -wing media and their leveraging of this situation for their brands and their pipeline of viewers, specifically in front of a very large crowd at CPAC.

0:42:23 Thomas: Oh, yeah. Looking forward to it. Seaback. Yep. Next time on Where There's Woke. Can't wait.

0:42:32 Thomas: Well, thank you so much for listening. Thank you for supporting. And again, if you want to check out Gavel Gavel, and we're just so excited to have you listening and we'll see you next episode.

0:42:40 Lydia: See you then.