DOD180: Do Men Have a Duty To Protect?

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and utter dependence. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired.

0:00:22 Clip: Telling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:28 Tom: To Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's just itching to get involved. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:38 Thomas: Yo all right I need to apologize for the yik yak I read the other day I got the age of the babies wrong so it was a little less crazy they found out about the switch and the ivf at like two months or something and they were done they

0:00:52 Tom: Too much changes the

0:00:52 Eli: Off that's nothing that's

0:00:53 Tom: Whole thing. Delete the episode.

0:00:54 Thomas: Were I know I know

0:00:55 Tom: Delete the whole episode.

0:00:56 Thomas: I did I already did I

0:00:57 Tom: Two months, you the baby back, and who cares?

0:00:58 Eli: Nothing that a nothing story I

0:01:00 Thomas: But it took them a while it took that was when they started the testing and then by the time I think they had just about fully traded by four months uh so sorry about that I went to go check and I swear I saw a year but it must have been I was just scanning real fast because it was too long in between when I read it and when we did the episode my fault sorry

0:01:17 Tom: A little bit more about this. I think by the age of 13, I probably wouldn't trade back. You the time they're like you know a teenager early teenager I'd probably be like yeah all right I'm kind of settled into this one that's

0:01:20 Thomas: The important thing is it's the first time any of us have ever gotten anything wrong on the air, you know, and I just want to, sorry.

0:01:33 Tom: Is it's certainly the first time many of us have admitted it yeah

0:01:38 Eli: Just just wish you take your responsibility as a skeptic a little more seriously Thomas you know it's just like we carry the torch of truth here on our podcasts and

0:01:46 Thomas: That, that makes me feel better. Cause as I thought about it, I mean, Tom, I think you were totally on this, the whole to both of you, really. It's like a year is that is pretty crazy. That would be pretty rough.

0:01:56 Tom: That's fucking bonkers you've

0:01:57 Eli: But a two months is nothing though that's the other problem the problem with two months is that's not that shouldn't have been in the newspaper

0:02:01 Thomas: Shouldn't have been a story yeah that

0:02:05 Tom: Like what you're fucking crying about that's feel

0:02:06 Thomas: Should have been like oh I set down my baby here and you set down your baby here then we accidentally mixed them up for five minutes yeah

0:02:13 Tom: Like they're like suitcases at that point like if you grab a brown suitcase and you get a brown suit like whatever yeah

0:02:18 Eli: When you'RE waiting for luggage you grab someone else's suitcase and they're like that's mine you're like oh sorry anything good in it right like that'S how newsworthy that situation was yeah

0:02:27 Tom: Like one of those sitcom like oh my goldfish died I got a new goldfish tropes you know like a baby looks about

0:02:33 Thomas: Here it is here's my plan the husbands have to get together meet with the babies and make hair and makeup experts and they're like how do we slowly transition the babies to each other over time like it's just a little like yeah each day like oh that eyebrow is a little you know thing whatever it is like hair is slightly darker you know and then and

0:02:44 Eli: Using practical effects yeah yeah

0:02:46 Tom: And you have to do the whole thing in stop motion too that's the other part it's like yeah can I just say too that I saw a lot of comments from people on that episode where they were essentially I know it is it is generally speaking it is where where they they all kind of said something similar which is like oh in that circumstance I would like be super duper friends with the family and like more people who love your kid like that sounds fine but I thought like but I don't like most fucking people like but like it's not even what like I don'T like most atheists like

0:02:53 Thomas: They meet in the middle, swapperoo, nobody's the wiser.

0:03:03 Eli: That seems like a terrible idea you shouldn't do that what if

0:03:04 Thomas: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

0:03:22 Eli: They're christians yeah right

0:03:26 Tom: Most people I meet I'm unlikely to be like oh now we're family we love each other we have the same thoughts and like the chances of that happening are fucking in my mind like infinitesimally small like

0:03:36 Eli: But tom you understand that's not a universal experience right how you feel

0:03:40 Tom: Don't most people dislike most people yeah like I mean most people I meet I'm like I don't like that guy

0:03:40 Thomas: I'm with Tom on this one. I'm mitama on this. It's universal on this podcast, except for Eli.

0:03:47 Eli: It's a two -thirds majority on this podcast these other people are icky I

0:03:50 Thomas: I'm Withya. Here's what you're forgetting. They have custody of your child. Child. So it's kissing ass until you can. Oh, yeah, we totally agree. And then you leave the country once

0:03:56 Eli: Would

0:03:56 Tom: Know I could Thomas Smith nobody can pretend better than I can I spent a lot of years in sales I spent like people, but like, I'm not going to be like, oh, we're friends. We're getting together at the 4th of July barbecue. And like, we'll all get together on the weekends to play board. Like, what are the chances that I like that guy?

0:04:19 Eli: Just like to remind everybody that I have been in the room twice when tom was pretending not to be mad and he melted several things with his eyes

0:04:26 Tom: Different. That's, that's different, that different. I'm just saying, like, I can sell you that. I like you. I am guarantee. I can tell you that I I like you if I if I want to get something out of it so

0:04:31 Thomas: Wait a minute.

0:04:39 Eli: That's true I'm pretty convinced I'm pretty convinced it's

0:04:41 Thomas: Now I feel bad that he hasn't even tried with me. He's like, like I'm not pretending it's not worth my time tom's

0:04:41 Tom: It's not that much in it for me you know

0:04:48 Eli: Guys guys you know the only thing worse than uh people according to the two of you yeah tom's ability to pretend why it's the auto ads the fake friendship of podcasting here you are shaking our hands what's that in between our hands why it doesn't it's a tiny little verizon commercial but But you can get rid of that tiny Verizon commercial in between our palms over at patreon.com/dear old dads where, for as little as a dollar, you get a commercial-free version of every show, but not just commercial-free. No, no, no. You also get an extended version of each show with a little parenting story at the end. Some of the best lore of the podcast has come from those end segments. You want to fill in your notebook, your notion board of podcastiverse lore you gotta do it over at patreon.com/dear old dads real into

0:04:52 Thomas: Ability to pretend that he's not mad yeah

0:05:41 Tom: Right so uh one is a is a reader so I'm going to read uh this probably came from reddit I don't remember where it came from I saw it on our uh uh group or whatever and I thought this would be great for the show so let me go ahead and read this I'm gonna read it by by the way, exactly as it's written. And because I think this was posted to Reddit, what I want you to remember is that everybody who posts to Reddit is like terrible at writing things. So this is not, this is Not Me.

0:06:06 Eli: Fair

0:06:06 Thomas: Think chat gpt is quite good at writing that's weird I

0:06:09 Tom: Jesus Christ. All went his company Christmas party last night as we were waiting for our Uber. Yeah, I know. I know, and also like Like, evidently, it's illegal when you write on Reddit to use a comma anywhere or any punctuation other than a period.

0:06:24 Thomas: Found that in general the options are no commas or 400 commas like commas in places they don't belong at all oh

0:06:28 Tom: Just a comma in the middle of a word. We were waiting for our Uber out on the sidewalk, I noticed a girl standing by herself waiting for her ride on the corner. I didn't like that she was waiting by herself, so I was keeping an eye on her while we were outside talking. This drunk kid was roaming around talking to himself, and eventually I saw him go up to her. I was watching the whole time to see her body language and see if she was okay. And when I saw her walk away, I walked over there and my boyfriend followed. I just stayed in her general vicinity and she walked over and asked if she could wait with us. And I said, of course, I came here because I didn't like that you were waiting by yourself and that the drunk guy was bothering you. She was super appreciative. We waited with her until her Uber came. Her Uber got there and the drunk I walked straight up and opens the passenger seat and is trying to get in and I walk over there and I let the Uber driver know this guy is not with her and don't let him in this car. Tell the drunk guide to go away. This isn't his Uber, and try to shove him off the car, but he isn't budging. I look over, and my boyfriend is still standing on the corner, looking at his phone to see when our Uber is coming.

0:07:28 Tom: I call out to him to come help, and he still stands there. Fed up, I go back inside, inside the venue, to find some guy bartenders who will instantly drop their cleanup to come outside and help. My boyfriend just stood there the entire time and watched me fend off a drunk guy by myself. His defense is he know what people are capable of and people can be dangerous but he's perfectly okay with watching his girlfriend walk into that I really don't know where to go from here but I can't see him as a man anymore if he's not going to protect me yeah

0:07:58 Eli: See him identically as a man that's the most man thing to do in the universe the most man thing ever is let a woman be in danger and then be like oh sorry let me explain this to you while you're emotional I could have gotten hurt you understand understand how terrible that would be right babe how terrible it would be if I got hurt like

0:08:00 Thomas: I was gonna gonna say until that last sentence yeah I love how his his reasoning was just the reason there was a conflict like did he think she was just doing that for fun like for no reason like yeah I'm helping because people could be dangerous that's exactly we have the same reasoning yeah

0:08:28 Eli: Candy

0:08:28 Tom: Yeah well also clearly like it's it's not like he's like whoa this could be dangerous I should get my girlfriend out of this situation right he's just like this couldbe dangerous I guess you can handle it so

0:08:44 Eli: Crush candy crush oh sprinkle ball candy candy crush

0:08:49 Tom: There's a lot to unpack here and I think the the best place to start is the is maybe the hardest and longest part to unpack which which is the idea that this this lady, woman, this girlfriend can't see him as a man anymore. So of his value as a man, and her perception of his masculinity as it should be expressed, is tied up in that idea of protection. And I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.

0:08:58 Eli: Jolly flinting right

0:09:25 Thomas: Well I I think she was 100 right until then because for me it's more like oh you mean he just sucks like I don't care is she a man now like does she do I have to look at her as a man because she protected the woman or is it just there's people who are considerate and people who aren't you know what I mean like I Don't really

0:09:43 Eli: It's it's like she acted perfectly right as she saved this girl that she turned away from the car and she was like oh man gay people should not get married Oh, whew. Hate when gay people get married.

0:09:48 Thomas: You're like no I think of my husband is a total F slur. You're like, oh, yikes.

0:09:57 Tom: So I don't I think a couple of things here jesus

0:10:00 Eli: A kike. That's the one I can use, everybody. That' what I thought I'd bring it to bear.

0:10:06 Tom: Christ I

0:10:08 Thomas: Me get Arlo. What a dirty no coat. As long as he, I had some, some no coats were my best friend and kids. Tom, that's yours.

0:10:14 Eli: Monago. Go yeah

0:10:17 Tom: I monago I'm a monago I forgot monago no cos and monagos jesus christ we've got a whole fucking language over here on dear old dads of just weird

0:10:25 Thomas: We've invented, no, just specifically slurs, Tom. Get it right. It's just slurs that Eli invents in his spare time.

0:10:28 Eli: Specifically that's

0:10:32 Tom: Our own urban dictionary coming right out of dear old dads at this point so I I I will go the other side of the bears I think on this one which is probably not surprising but I do think that um a patriarchy men have a greater responsibility responsibility um sure and not outside of a patriarch you're just just the the general fact of sexual dimorphism like we have a greater responsibility to intervene in these scenarios than women do I think that that's just a a truth like we walk around in a world where we are generally speaking physically bigger physically stronger than women are and I think I think when a scenario like this presents itself, I think we have an actual responsibility as the larger, stronger, speaking, to get involved. I think that that is our responsibility. And I think a huge part, whether it's fair or not, is kind of just setting aside the relevance of its fairness. Feminist whether it's fair or not I also think it's true that men are generally as a rule expected or valued in part for our ability to protect I don't think that that's like socially not a true thing so I think like this guy standing there I think this guy sucks ass right this guy sucks for like 50 reasons that's why there's a lot to unpack but I actually think it'S PRETTY fair for her to see him as like, if it was, if it was two girlfriends standing there, I don't think the same amount of responsibility would be on the other girlfriend as is on this guy. I think it actually matters very much that this is a guy. And I think it's fair to judge him on it as

0:10:35 Eli: You're welcome what

0:12:13 Thomas: Guess I

0:12:14 Tom: A man. I think, I think if my wife and my wife's best friend were standing there. I would not be like, oh man, my wife, best friend really had a responsibility to get physically involved. If I'm standing there with my wife and there's something going on, I have a responsibility to get involved. Or even if it's not my wife, it's just some other random lady. I have responsibility to get informed because like I walk around with the privilege of male embodiment.

0:12:14 Thomas: I still just think the primary okay

0:12:38 Eli: Putting that aside for a second because I just sort of want to drill down on the claim here what about like lesbian couples do you think lesbian couples don't have that physical obligation okay

0:12:46 Tom: They don't have the same physical obligation as, as if she was with a male friend. Yeah. A hundred percent. Like, I think we have an obligation to like help protect our friends, but

0:12:50 Eli: Interesting interesting

0:12:55 Thomas: It's me and my girlfriend ronda rousey

0:12:58 Eli: Interesting well that that thomas you beat me to exactly which it was which is like as as someone who is less strong than most of the women in my life because like I can tell you for sure who's kicking more ass between anna and eli bosnack I'm just uh like I would heartily I'll get in there right and I'll agree with you on privilege but I'm mostly ankle biting I want you to I'm I'm mostly, I'm mostly doing that behind them on the hands and knees at the pool situation.

0:13:25 Thomas: But I was gonna say you have unique de -escalating skills though because I I've heard you just shit your pants on command and then that de -escalates the situation but

0:13:34 Eli: And it's perfect misdirection for Anna's karate. It's perfect. Like, did that guy shit himself? Hi -ya! No fucking shot.

0:13:43 Tom: Upper body strength differences between men and women when you look them up ranges it somewhere on and these are averages right so we're talking in general

0:13:50 Eli: We're not talking about me. For me, it's the inverse.

0:13:52 Tom: There are there are circumstances certainly

0:13:53 Eli: When you're thinking about me, podcast listener, please inverse whatever genders Tom is talking about.

0:13:54 Tom: That are different right Like, but

0:13:58 Thomas: Just yeah no disagreement we be it resolved that the average dude can take on the average girl just on average we'll all agree there I

0:14:07 Tom: It's a difference of between 30 and 50 percent, depending on where you look. So it's an enormous difference. That's an Enormous Differential. And I just think that with that comes some responsibility. Just Like, do. I just I think that that comes a responsibility to get involved in these scenarios.

0:14:14 Eli: What have I done? Well, it it's interesting. Even without the the like strength thing which again is like true for me right I am I am probably weaker than most of the women in my life right but like the privilege thing which you just spoke to I think that's completely true and in many ways like as if not more important right because in that scenario right like I think we can all agree on whatever you think about the biology of the the situation is that like men stop behaving when other men interfere.

0:14:54 Tom: Hundred percent.

0:14:55 Eli: Right. Is what we are culturalized to. That's what we're socialized to believe. That'S what every movie conveys. That IS what my personal experience has been. Right? That IS when women express their discomfort, men get more aggressive. When men step in, men back down. Right.? know, it's horrible to say, but like, it'S the thing that, you know, we've all heard this from countless women. When I I started wearing my wedding ring. Dude, stop being creeps. When this happened, I, you know, I say, you're looking for your husband, say you're talking to your boyfriend on the phone, right? Like there, there is something about that hierarchy of patriarchy that as a member, just like you said, Tom, as a person of privilege in that gender dynamic, it is your obligation to step in just as I would say, right. I saw a white person being racist to a person of color, right, of my privilege in the racial hierarchy, it is my obligation to step in and correct that person's behavior.

0:15:49 Tom: I think I that's think. That that's right. Right. And I think it's also like I want to go that step further and put myself out. I think I think that it is fair for this girlfriend or whatever to judge him for not getting involved and specifically to judge him based on his gender, because, again, I think that he has an obligation here that is gender specific. I really do. I think that that matters.

0:16:12 Thomas: Think that I think the the danger there is then do you making Making the claim that men who are less masculine, who are smaller, who are whatever, are not as much men. And therefore, I just think it opens up a can of worms, you know, like that. I think it's it's to me, it's like.

0:16:26 Eli: Send you a video of me fucking my wife right now, Tom.

0:16:30 Tom: No. And again,

0:16:30 Thomas: Stop offering that we get.

0:16:32 Eli: My number.

0:16:34 Thomas: No, I was going to say is I think it's for me, it's more the Spider -Man rule where it's like, I think it's just in In this of thing, I think the ability to help is what gives someone the responsibility to help. And I think that that will vary based on the situation. I agree that in more situations, men might have a size advantage or something that would allow them to help, but I also think there's lots of ways that these things go, and it really depends on what kind of confrontation this is. And a lot of times de -escalation, we've talked about that before, de -eschalation is the best bet. And I will say, Tom, as much as I'm not really disagreeing with what you just said, I do think that there absolutely the dynamic that men need that other man to be the police force on them before they take someone seriously. But I do think there is a subset of interactions where another man actually inflames things. And it of depends on what the

0:16:41 Eli: Everybody gets one. One yeah what

0:17:31 Tom: A hundred

0:17:31 Thomas: Altercation is. And whereas a girlfriend of a friend might be able to appeal to the sort of the toxic masculinity in a way that that makes a different kind of appeal. You know what I mean? What I'm trying to say? Yeah.

0:17:31 Tom: Percent. Yeah, I

0:17:46 Thomas: Don't know which would be true, but I do think that if see someone in trouble, no matter who you are, and regardless of your gender, your size, your whatever, if you have the ability to help, I do you think that gives you some responsibility, in my mind, to help in our society.

0:18:00 Tom: Do. I feel like the genders here make a big, big difference. So and I'll just, I'll just throw out there. Like if, Haley and her best friend were out on a girl's night and some drunk guy And Haley's trying to protect some stranger, just like in this scenario, against some drunk person, some drunk guy, not person, some drunk guide, right? Haney's friend was scared and did not want to get involved. I would be like, yeah, that makes sense. Like, dudes are, you to women and bigger and generally stronger and, you know, can wreak a lot of damage and have a history of doing so. So, so like makes all the sense in the world why I would not judge Haley's best friend for jumping in, in that scenario. But, uh, able -bodied man that like, let's say instead of Haley his best friend, Lainey, she was out with, you friend. She's out with Cecil. If Cecil didn't, Cecil, yeah. Okay. But, you Know, I'm just saying like, if, if just, just somebody that people know, like like, just an able -bodied guy, I be appalled.

0:18:47 Thomas: Well, he'll have a sword, so that's a bad comparison.

0:18:59 Tom: I would appalled differently because that's a guy and because the confrontation involves another guy.

0:19:06 Eli: About like a physically fit woman like coach tiffany

0:19:09 Tom: Yeah, fine, same. I would still be like, no, you've got to get involved. I want to go back to what you said, like, Thomas, real quick, because I wantto make sure that I'm not misconstrued by the audience. I'mnot saying violence here, right? And I but like I'm not saying that like men are good but the threat of at de -escalation we're generally speaking not I'm Not saying that women wouldn't be better at deescalating the situation generally speaking they oftentimes are as a result of the way that we socialize them and the predator prey relationship between men and women unfortunately and the things that they have to learn in order to survive but like yeah a hundred percent but like these obligation is still to get involved, whether And I do think it's entirely fair to be like, yeah, that guy sucks as

0:19:21 Thomas: You're thinking it though

0:19:52 Tom: A guy, that guy sucks. As a guy for not getting involved, because I wouldn't judge, I wouldn'T judge Laney. I wouldnT judge Haley's best friend for the same thing. AndI would judge any of her male friends for not getTing involved differently.

0:19:52 Eli: Well uh she

0:19:56 Thomas: Well hold I think we set our pieces except that I think you should judge a girlfriend if it's a similar situation because think about what the guy's doing he's not just not physically getting involved he's playing candy crush he's checked out like if lydia's girlfriend was like oh I don't yeah she asked for help if livia's girlfriend friend was like, eh, sucks to be you. Don't care. I'd be like, well, fuck that friend. Like you could, you can always be doing something. You could be alerting those very, uh, uh male staff that, that the girl friend alerted. Like there's no, if, if you were a guy who's not one for any sort of violence, I, -OK by my book, like that's, that's better. But, but like you can do other things. And this guy is just a fucking sociopath. This guy, to to mine, my, this guy guy just does not care about other people because like, I don't know how you could do that. Like it'd be one thing if he was a total stranger, I'd be like, eh, who knows? He's got stuff going on. Maybe he's just like, God, I gotta get home. I gotta go get to work or something. He's the boyfriend, right? He on.

0:20:18 Tom: Oh yeah. We got to go into all that that stuff yeah yeah oh yeah yeah yeah same

0:20:20 Eli: Asked for help she right

0:20:41 Tom: Yeah yeah

0:21:02 Eli: Yeah

0:21:02 Thomas: That's crazy.

0:21:02 Eli: Yeah so that's I think where I'm differing from you tom is that I completely agree he sucks right he sucks as a a partner he sucks as a friend he sucks as a person there's nothing inherent to maleness for me definitional except for his recipiency of privilege that I am like that makes him less male to me yes

0:21:24 Tom: Well do you I guess let me let me ask you a related question like I'm not saying it makes him less male I think it makes him less good like it makes them a shitty it makes it but I would say like specifically it makes him a shitty is fair for her to judge him as being a less desirable man because he did not intervene. I like, I am curious where you guys land on this question. Do you think that it is a fair or decent or okay thing for people to value men specifically as protectors in the way that we often socially do?

0:21:32 Eli: Good yes good for sure through the lens of privilege absolutely through the lines of like biology I'm not so sure so

0:22:08 Tom: Do you mean by that?

0:22:09 Eli: Like when someone says hey I think it is male obligation to be a protector and provider what I read into that sentence is because we have a society built by men for men I know how much of an advantage this person has and so the obligation on them to provide and protect is as a result of that privilege not a result of their inherent biology right so if someone says you have to be be a provider and protector because you are bigger and stronger. I don't know that I understand that necessarily. Like I get it because I grew up in society and I don' t want to play stupid and pretend that I didn' t grow up around that notion and understand it. I do understand it I don''t know how true it holds versus I know for a fact the notions around privilege and socialization I know those are true and I think they are important and Ithink men should feel obligated in those ways right

0:23:05 Thomas: Eli, your dad fought a different henchman each week. Yeah, every day. I'm curious how that plays into any of this for you like

0:23:08 Eli: Day every second yeah well yeah I mean I saw a person who could fight so it was it was interesting because very early I realized and I've told these shows on the store before like there I think this is action movies I don't know what it is but like if you have a dad who can fight or maybe if you're just a man in society you think you can fight right you're ready for what's that Bob Odenkirk movie right nobody right you're like if I was on a bus and they were being mean to a lady I would probably get Hulk strength I think I would get Hulk's strength and what you learn relatively quickly if you grow up in the fucking 80s and 90s is that you don't you're not good at fighting unless you learn to fight in one of the learn to fighting classrooms right that's not something that anyone is inherently good at at all anywhere And, in fact, if you are a person who thinks anger will give you Hulk strength, you are much more likely to, for instance, try to headbutt a bouncer outside a bar while he moves gently to the left and run yourself into some trash

0:23:33 Thomas: Didn't see it I

0:24:15 Eli: Cans, right? Notion that you're going to like figure it out in the moment that you'RE going to be unnatural there. I don't think there is a natural at violence. And if there is an natural at silence, it's probably a mental illness. So as someone who grew up sort of in the shadow of someone who was good at violence, who I admired so much and was such a good person. It was really weird to discover that not only was I not good at violence I had no desire to learn right because when I was young right when I Was like six seven eight I was like my dad fights I'm gonna go where where would we all go to learn violence that's right odd podcast listener taekwondo class the foremost martial art of our time the I think we can all agree the best self -defense one can learn yeah

0:25:05 Tom: Second only to capoeira, I think.

0:25:07 Eli: Exact

0:25:08 Thomas: Because you might seduce the attacker yeah a

0:25:08 Eli: Second only to capoeira and it was I right aikido energy transfer whatever the case might be right like I went to taekwondo right then of course you know some years into taekwon -do certainly after I had been given a black belt I

0:25:12 Tom: Like Bob's Burgers. Yeah

0:25:24 Thomas: Black belt holy shit I

0:25:26 Eli: Smith are you not aware that you are speaking to a second degree black belt

0:25:30 Thomas: Forgot yeah but that's but how that you bribed someone one. Right. Cause that's, cause that's actually kind of hard to do.

0:25:36 Eli: First that's how karate works everybody relax everyone's bribing everyone I don't I don't want people to think that like my parents came in after hours and slipped fucking my taekwondo master at 20 okay you stay long enough and you get the secondary black belt okay but long after some form of black beltishness had appeared in my life I was like all right spin kick and someone was like what you doing man seems like you're moving your whole body around in a big circle that's crazy why are you doing that it's

0:25:48 Thomas: It was an open auction at the, yeah, that's crazy. Eli, I'm not sure you recognize that it is actually kind of rare to have a black belt and have no ability to fight like there. I think you maybe are in a more special situation than, than you think a savant, a bribery savant.

0:26:19 Eli: A little bit of a savant a little bit of uh special boy yeah

0:26:23 Thomas: Yeah. Like Like, I would, there's no, you think they give black belts for attendance?

0:26:19 Tom: Very specialized situation yeah

0:26:25 Eli: Was no bribery involved just showed up to class yeah that's what I got I showed up every day I worked hard full

0:26:33 Tom: He's got that's not a black belt that's a participation belt that they just Just, you know, is it patent leather? Because I feel like that's just an actual black leather belt.

0:26:34 Eli: Heart yeah maybe you didn't hear me tom I said taekwondo it's the national sport should be should be that's what I deserved is a nice one thank

0:26:50 Tom: Want to be clear, too, that like I am not exclusively talking about violent, violent intervention, right? And I know that that's like kind of the direction that this conversation is headed. I'm just saying that our obligation is a greater obligation and the expectation that we generally and I would pull apart provider from protector, but like our to be a protector in general and to see that as something which is valuable as a partner in a man, I think that that's a fair thing. Not all women value it, right? Like, I don't want to say that this is universally valued, but I think in general it is often socially valued. And I think it's also a very fair thing to value

0:27:27 Thomas: Eli, you can stop wearing the black belt around. I think, I think it's time. He wears it everywhere.

0:27:28 Eli: That's how anna knows I want to do it as I'm wearing the black belt just a reminder and just the blackbelt around my cock so

0:27:35 Thomas: And just, and

0:27:37 Tom: But like to share like a super quick parenting thing that just happened the other day around the like if you haven't actually learned to fight you don't know how to fight just because you're I had to tell this to Finn the other way Finn so has gotten very very strong like Finn is working out he's gotten very strong and so like it occurred to me I don't remember we were talking about I was like I should probably tell him that Being strong doesn't mean anything about whether or not he's actually like a force to be reckoned with here.

0:28:04 Eli: You just kicked his ass

0:28:05 Tom: He's like the gentlest guy ever. I have no worries about this at all. So like I did have a quick conversation with him in the car. I was like, hey, just so you know, just because you're like big and strong doesn'T mean like that. You know how to fight like don't get above your britches here you know if shit pops off yeah

0:28:10 Eli: Podcast

0:28:23 Thomas: Know you guys hate it when I talk Brazilian jujitsu, but it is actually true that like the technology of fighting has changed because back in the day, it actually kind of did mean quite a lot if you were on average, because it's like the metagame of of male violence, like to make it like, you know, Magic the Gathering comparison back in in the 70s not the many average dudes

0:28:44 Eli: Reeling them back in thomas smith well

0:28:46 Thomas: I'm trying to double appeal here not the back in that you know whenever not that many on the average men were walking around being experts in in anything but now that like the proliferation of ufc and brazilian jiu -jitsu it makes a massive difference like the difference between no knowledge of that and any knowledge is massive so so it's funny it's a weird I don't know what the graph would be but size does make a huge difference but there's like these two little like lumps or I guess maybe holes in the graph where it's like well but if they know all their shit and you know nothing then all of a sudden like no it's not going to be but if you both know a little bit back to size being a massive advantage you know what I mean so it'slike yeah the

0:29:22 Tom: All things being equal size is a bit but like the biggest advantage is is just knowing how to be in a confrontation successfully like that's the that is by far more advantageous than than so I did have to have that like moment of real I was like hey bud just so you know like a lot of people that are going to be smaller and still kick your ass all day and twice on Sunday without breaking too much of a sweat. So, you know, you still have to be just as careful in the world. Yeah.

0:29:47 Thomas: Rear naked choke exists yeah

0:29:49 Eli: When you're a big guy people think you can fight and want to fight you right of the things that I know I get no no personal experience here But one of the things that I observed is, like, there brand of man who recognized that my dad was a big, strong, beat -up -looking dude. And they were like, I should probably leave that guy alone. He looks like he broke his nose on purpose multiple times. There was also a percentage of the population that was like, ah, another fighting enthusiast. Hello, good sir. Fisticuffs today? I notice you're parking too close to my vehicle. Right and so like that's another thing to prepare someone with a large body for is like hey just so you know there's a percentage of the population that's going to like prove themselves worthy by violencing at you than

0:30:33 Thomas: I cannot imagine like I'm not trying to even just be like a fucking beta woke woke cuck or whatever. I can't imagine that mindset. Like it can't relate to anything less than like looking around. Well, yeah, just like, well, I mean, Hey man, I'll throw down if there's a reason, but like the, wanting to test.

0:30:43 Eli: Wanting to fight but starting it yeah

0:30:49 Thomas: Yeah. Like, Oh, this'll, this will be the test of my masculine. It's like, what are you dude? I have so much to do, you know, like I'm just too busy.

0:30:55 Eli: The that I list in terms of contesting my masculinity against another man first of all they both both include us fucking each other. But so many more things above that list before fighting. Before fighting.

0:31:09 Tom: Like I did not shock myself awake for this. That is not, I'm not getting fucking. Oh, I also, I gave Finn, by the way, my, my shock watch the the other day to wake him up uh it was funny so he

0:31:22 Thomas: Oh my God. That's

0:31:23 Eli: How do you like it?

0:31:23 Thomas: Technically child abuse. I think

0:31:25 Tom: Was afraid of it like he was afraid yeah he was afraid of him but

0:31:25 Thomas: I, I think I need to. Yeah. Yes. Yes, Tom.

0:31:25 Eli: I was going to say. Yeah, it's an electronic shock, man.

0:31:30 Thomas: Does that tell you anything? Uh, most regular people are afraid of electricity.

0:31:30 Tom: So this oh it's fine -ish it just hurts so like like but I do think like I would go to I would go back to this before we we close out the episode though because like it's also important to note all the ways this guy sucks that have nothing to do with him being a guy like like I think it's important to you know piece apart and then everybody can like tear me apart in the comments because I think there's a role for protection but like this guy had like every opportunity in the world to intervene in any sense like he has he actually has the most useful intervention device man has ever created in his fucking hand and he's looking at it and he could have like called for help he He could have like, could have done literally anything that this woman ended up

0:31:40 Eli: It does just hurt. It's true.

0:32:20 Thomas: Tom

0:32:20 Tom: Doing.

0:32:21 Thomas: Do yes. And he could have also been like, Oh, well, Oh shit. I didn't know that I was so into my candy crush. Oh, Oh babe. I would have helped a hundred percent.

0:32:29 Eli: Babe, I would have sprinkled. His balls would have been the sprinkle there, if you know what I'm saying.

0:32:32 Thomas: Why I ought to, you know, like, even like, that's why this guy is such a fucking sociopath. He's just like, oh, no, you don't understand. Like, I didn't intervene because it was dangerous. It's

0:32:43 Tom: And it's like, he's okay. Not just with this stranger getting hurt. He's with his girlfriend getting hurt and there's, there's like a, a blindness that men have to the danger that women live within that is so fucking fucking unacceptable. And it makes them bad people. Like it makes you a bad, like just no excuses. It makes you bad person.

0:32:48 Thomas: Crazy. Absolutely crazy.

0:33:07 Tom: If you are standing outside and you see a drunk lady getting harassed by some guy and he's trying to get in her Uber and you're so fucking blind or indifferent to that, even if his girlfriend hadn't gotten involved. I also think that we have an obligation again as like as the guys the people who hold all the privilege don't we have an obligation to keep our eyes open in the same way that women are like required to keep their eyes and ears open to survive shouldn't we keep our eyes opened as allies to like see when people are in danger yeah

0:33:42 Thomas: And be aware of how many ways of intervention there are that aren't final. Just by the way, when you're dealing with someone who's like that level of drunk, distraction. Just, Hey, Oh, you're wearing a cub shirt. Hey, the cub, did you see that? I hope they stay healthy this year. It's all about the coach.

0:33:53 Tom: There's a hundred things you could do that weren't violent yeah yeah

0:33:56 Thomas: It started to get into Thompson. It stopped. Hey. Did you see they get there? Hey, it's, they got to play as a team. They got, I was

0:34:00 Eli: Try on this watch. Got him.

0:34:04 Tom: Yeah I'm not advocating for violence at all like

0:34:04 Eli: Secret Taser.

0:34:11 Thomas: A little slow to that. That watch oh shit he's dead run

0:34:12 Tom: Hey wake you up now stupid nope I I said it's a six oh that's

0:34:17 Eli: I said it to Tom. I gave him the one that Tom cherry -rigged himself with 6D batteries.

0:34:22 Thomas: Whoops just wires coming out

0:34:25 Eli: Yeah. I should have said it in normal. That's on me.

0:34:25 Thomas: Of it fuck

0:34:28 Tom: Solar panels you carry around solar panels that's a lot just

0:34:32 Eli: Just when it's charging yeah unless

0:34:36 Thomas: Where's it at like a backpack

0:34:39 Tom: Yeah I'm not I want again I'm not specifically advocating for any kind of violence I don't think violence is the right intervention but intervention is important and this guy's like blindness because when confronted he wasn't like oh fuck I didn't notice. That wasn't his response.

0:34:53 Thomas: That's what I'm saying like that would have been so much better just make some I'm not one for lying I would never do that but if you're this scumbag like at least lie that's a lie you tell I

0:35:00 Eli: He making up something from the new york times Am I right everybody Thomas Smith serial sociopath liar that's what I always say can't stop making it up in

0:35:11 Thomas: Also my other favorite thing about reddit posts where somebody in just the premise of their question usually a woman by the way someone reveals that like oh their partner just does not like or care about them in any way and you have to be like

0:35:22 Tom: Man.

0:35:22 Eli: Any way shape or form he

0:35:23 Tom: All the time.

0:35:24 Thomas: Man how do you say that's not how anything should be like the premise of your question is like so yeah so I got hit by a car and he was like oh I'm busy babe and I'm like do I what should I how do I talk to him him about this. It's like, no, you don't.

0:35:38 Eli: Couldn't pause the game you have to understand he can't he would just lose he's

0:35:41 Thomas: No talking. There's no talking. That's just not, that person needs to go back to the person factory.

0:35:44 Eli: If your significant other is treating you worse than I would treat a stranger you should break up with them all Right, gentlemen before we go have you heard about the new sport called quiet tennis yeah it's like regular tennis but without the racket I

0:35:53 Thomas: I love it. Yay. It is not a weird, crazy boomer joke. That was good. I loved it. My favorite joke. Does this positive reinforcement thing work? Eli, that was so fucking funny. God, I loved

0:36:22 Eli: Don't like that I don'T like positive reinforcement I like sexual

0:36:24 Thomas: You could you could do better by. All right. Hey, if it gets rid of those boomer jokes.

0:36:27 Eli: Bribery

0:36:32 Tom: Like the boomer jokes. Bring back the boomer jokes all

0:36:33 Eli: Hey well

0:36:34 Thomas: Well, then you're going to have to fuck him harder in the other direction.

0:36:35 Eli: Everyone everyone's section this is what I was hoping for when we started the show it's all coming together I've

0:36:37 Tom: Right, I'll do it then I'll fuck them harder

0:36:47 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads .com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, tom smith who also wrote and recorded the intro music which is used with his permission this podcast is a production of daddy issues llc copyright 2022 all rights reserved

0:37:29 Eli: Did that guy shit himself? Hiya!

0:37:31 Thomas: Person needs to go back to the person factory.

0:37:33 Tom: Now we're family we love each other we have the same thoughts and like the

0:37:37 Eli: Try on this watch. Got him.

0:37:39 Tom: Did not shock myself awake for this. That