DOD179: Just in it for the Money

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and utter dependence. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired.

0:00:22 Clip: Telling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's just doing it for the money. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:37 Thomas: Need to say your internal monologue out loud that can just be well

0:00:40 Eli: I was going to say, guys,

0:00:40 Tom: I'm doing it all for the... All of it, Thomas Smith. Absolutely all of it.

0:00:44 Eli: If you won a majillion dollars tomorrow, which of your podcasts would you still do?

0:00:48 Thomas: This one I think I would do I would would do all of them but less I think it would do like one a month you know

0:00:51 Tom: Would do all of them. I would love to just do podcasting. Would like to do all the podcasting stuff. I would just love that experience.

0:01:04 Thomas: This loser still has a day job I forgot oh boy

0:01:09 Eli: Slacking off with this leave, Tom, and you might just have that opportunity.

0:01:12 Tom: Know I know just fucking yeah I would I would do all of them like do podcasting I think it would be great like I've talked to hayley like if I won the lottery and I occasionally play do

0:01:16 Thomas: It's just do that yeah not I'm sorry I'm going to burst your bubble

0:01:26 Tom: You guys ever play lottery do you ever I

0:01:28 Eli: Are you kidding?

0:01:29 Thomas: No.

0:01:29 Eli: Tom, we have bonded over this.

0:01:30 Thomas: Are you kidding me?

0:01:32 Eli: Here's the thing.

0:01:31 Tom: I play the lottery from time

0:01:32 Eli: The impossibility of me winning doesn't feel as bad as the microsecond of joy I get when I buy a lottery ticket. Because for just a second, I get to think of all the things that make me the most scared, the most worried, the more sad, the afraid for my loved ones. I get think of those things going away. And you know what doesn't do that for me? Numbers your

0:01:33 Tom: To time yeah

0:02:04 Eli: Real ass fucking numbers they don't do shit for me you know you have more of a chance do you know of getting hit by lightning than you do of convincing me to take away my fun little thing that's what you do now I did have to cut myself off because I think it was like a couple months ago maybe six seven months ago I played two weeks in a row and I was like okay this is is where it begins right I could feel it right it was that moment where you're at the cliff's edge and at the bottom of the cliff was me like yelling about the scratch offs I was not winning at the guy at 7 -eleven right and so I was like all right and you gotta uninstall this because it was because they gave me an app for my phone and so when I would play they'd be like you lost and I'd be like fucking cool I needed more of these notifications on my phone but then they'd He'd be like, hey, we're sorry you lost. Do you want 50 % off your next ticket? And I was like, oh, New York lottery, New Jersey lottery. I do want that. And so I had to uninstall it. And I told myself I couldn't play again for a year.

0:02:54 Tom: A year

0:03:08 Eli: Yep.

0:03:08 Tom: Oh

0:03:09 Thomas: Eli, you know, I have a similar feeling, but a little bit inverse where I'm like, man, nothing gives me as much of a good feeling as numbers. And so I'm I'm like, I fucking love numbers and the numbers say don't, don't fucking do it. And I'm, like, thanks, numbers. I, I miss when being good at you mattered. That's what,

0:03:18 Tom: You and your numbers

0:03:28 Eli: How'd those numbers turn out for you? They didn't work out? It worked out?

0:03:30 Thomas: Nothing, no, fucking, nope, not

0:03:32 Eli: It's going well?

0:03:32 Thomas: At all. It helps me not waste money on lottery tickets, but other than that, yeah.

0:03:36 Eli: I'm sure he's going to pass some law where you have to, everyone has to buy one lottery ticket starting tomorrow and 8 million more people will vote pro on the fucking lottery ticket thing Bernie Sanders oh you know if only we had connected to people more then they wouldn't have voted yes on lotteryticketsrus.com and then everyone would be like oh are you giving up on the lottery now wow how selfish of you so you're just gonna sit there because all the lottery tickets are made out of the flesh of unborn children and you're like wait what they're making them out of flesh yeah you have to read the New York times all day every day just click just clickety click click click if you don't click it means you don't care you're killing a child every time you don't click clickety-click clickety click click and gentlemen do you know what's worse than the clicking turning out to be the actual thing that drove the master from Doctor Who insane why it's the auto ads sort of algorithmic conclusion in our podcasting experience if you will but if you would like the experience of having a human conversation oh so rare these days you can head on over to patreon .com forward slash dear old dads where for as little as a dollar or one lottery ticket you can support me and tom's gambling habit or at least you will be

0:04:53 Tom: Win

0:04:53 Eli: Able to in 2026 when I will allow myself to play again

0:04:55 Thomas: And on and if you support tom's gambling habit and he's like okay the only way I'm gonna pay for my wife's health care is if I win big and he loses then you are supporting the actions he takes after that which may involve certain health care ceos

0:05:02 Tom: The fucking lottery.

0:05:08 Eli: That's true it's a me tom mccurdy you know what I'm saying yeah

0:05:13 Thomas: So think so think about that when you're going to patreon.com/dearolddads

0:05:17 Eli: patreon.com/dearolddads as they say at the scratch off center rip into it or scratch into it go

0:05:27 Thomas: Right time you wanted to talk about your stupid stupid lottery habits though.

0:05:28 Tom: I was just you know I just you know like I at that buying a lottery ticket every once in a while for a dollar lets me uh lets me pretend that I don't have to do this forever you know like like all of the all of it you know

0:05:29 Eli: On tom do the thing where you like wait until it's a big amount and you're like alright well now it's worth it to play

0:05:43 Thomas: That's the joke I always make. I love when people are like, well, 20 billion now, 30 billion. It's like the difference between fucking 20 and 30 is going to be, I don't get out of bed for less than 30 million, whatever. So funny.

0:05:52 Tom: I just buy them randomly like yeah right I actually do the thomas thing where I'm I'm like I smugly am like I'm not buying a ticket when everybody else is buying a ticket then my odds are even and just like okay that's so like my odds were already infinitesimally small like it's just I'm not gonna win the lottery but like you know I like to buy a lottery ticket for you like what a couple of dollars it's like it it's not it's not a lot of dough you know so

0:06:06 Thomas: You gotta to wait till exactly yeah

0:06:13 Eli: You're an outsider who

0:06:20 Thomas: That's how they get you but

0:06:23 Eli: Do you have a list in your head of like people who you're calling up and just being like hey just so you know I'm giving you a million dollars so

0:06:29 Tom: No I wouldn't tell anybody I won like literally nobody at all if I won the lottery only one other person would know that I won a lottery I would only tell tell Haley. I, we would, we've already talked like I would never, I wouldn't tell the kids. I would know.

0:06:42 Eli: That's nuts yeah

0:06:42 Thomas: Man I was hoping so hard the person was gonna be someone other than Haley just because that'd be so interesting there's only one person and it's Randy and you're like who

0:06:47 Eli: Blue health blue

0:06:51 Tom: And it's Remy.

0:06:51 Eli: Shield yeah Yeah.

0:06:52 Tom: No, yeah, no, if there's ever a windfall, like, No, there's not like nobody else knows about it.

0:06:57 Thomas: Well here's the thing there's the lottery curse or whatever but here's The Thing you have to consider the people who win the lottery are the people stupid enough don't listen both of you the people stupid enough to buy lottery tickets are the only people ever. So it's not a guy like me or Heath, who's like, I like numbers, the warm, cozy, embrace of numbers. The numbers say, put this in a fucking ETF market, whatever.

0:06:57 Eli: I'm telling everybody.

0:07:01 Tom: I've done a citation on that. Okay. It's me. Ouch. That hurts my heart right here thomas it's a dollar it's like tipping at starbucks it's like it's just

0:07:22 Thomas: No, no. Here's I do Wanna say that decision makes complete sense. I actually get it because you could compare it. You know, this is, this this is a, this is, or yeah, I am just realizing in real time, some, there should actually be an article written on this. Like someone should write like, actually, it does kind of make sense to even though cold economics tells you there's no point in doing this. You're just, it's just a tax on people who don't understand numbers. That is also still true. But if you compare it as just entertainment, it's like, well, I could pay whatever $20 a month to stream Disney play, whatever, you know, like a bazillion dollars. We pay so much more for entertainment all the time. If this is providing you guys some form of like emotional feeling, some sort

0:07:31 Tom: Feelings I just that's

0:07:31 Eli: Voting. Can

0:08:05 Thomas: Of, yeah, then it's a completely rational decision. Here's my problem because I'm so devoted to numbers and rationality. I don't get that feeling. My feeling is I will not win. So there's no set. I I can'T can't, trick myself into thinking I would ever win. If I could, I'd be happier. I probably would buy a lottery ticket and

0:08:05 Tom: All it is yeah and that's why you're not going to win the lottery

0:08:23 Thomas: Why I'm never happy. Yeah.

0:08:23 Eli: Thomas, sit down next time you see like a mega man, right? You're pulling into the gas station. You see the little sign, just shoot Lydia text with the number and then sit down that night and plan out the money. Just plan out The Money because you have never been more more generous, more happy. You get to live because fantasy is the same as reality, except it ends.

0:08:46 Eli: And so you get to just imagine all the phone calls you'd make, right? All the people you'd be like, Hey, just so you know, you don't ever have to work again in your life, right. The people you'll be able to help all the charities. Oh, the charities that I would make do absolutely absolutely bizarre shit it would be I mean I I've talked on the air about the heath finger biting thing which is obviously a great idea have I not told you guys this this

0:08:56 Thomas: Yeah what I don't think so

0:09:13 Tom: What are you talking about

0:09:14 Eli: Is fucking great maybe noah cuts it so if I ever win like a bunch of money right I win a hundred billion trillion dollars right whatever it is take out a full page ad in the new york times and it's a picture of heathenright and it says if you can get this man to bite off one of your fingers you get one million dollars you

0:09:15 Thomas: Probably so generous of you yeah you're just really generous of heart I

0:09:39 Eli: Can't force him to do it you cannot make him do it he can't trick him into doing it but if he willingly bites off one of your fingers you can have one million million because then

0:09:51 Thomas: See why Noah edits this out all

0:09:54 Eli: People would constantly be coming up to heath and be like hey man my kid's actually pretty sick um and I don't type a lot and it would really mean a lot to me like he would have to do that for the rest of his life every interaction he'd have he'd be waiting for the shoe to drop with the will you bite off one of my fingers and the answer 10 times would be yes right he would be so yeah I would do all sorts of fun charity work like that and here's the thing numbers is giving 10 million dollars people in need you have your charity I have mine

0:10:09 Thomas: The time yeah oh my god that would ruin his life so it's a cool generous stuff they needed it so bad they got a guy to bite off their finger

0:10:34 Eli: I'm sorry am I not buying keith expensive dinners with my charity money I'm not taking him out to five-star restaurants my point is it's all meaningless and I would would like to have a lot of money while it's being oh I would give so many people money it would change every I've been making my estate I'll tell you this guys this and then we got to get into the topic of the show uh Been Making My Estate Lately Because It's Important To Have Those Things In Order Every Single Person I Have Spoken To in this process has asked me if I am planning on killing myself my

0:10:42 Thomas: Man oh boy then we gotta start recording yeah yeah

0:11:12 Tom: What? Really?

0:11:13 Thomas: I

0:11:13 Eli: Wife my lawyer my friend has my

0:11:16 Thomas: Was about to ask you that maybe I will just to complete this thing

0:11:18 Eli: Singleperson has has in some roundabout way been like so what do you need this for everything okay yep

0:11:29 Tom: Just because you're doing your estate planning?

0:11:31 Eli: Every single person has and can I tell you why that is and I'm going to say something controversial and you there's going to be a lot of people who don't like what I have to say, but let me speak my truth. Let me speak my truth open your hearts to me talking about my experience. I think it's because the people in my life know I should kill myself and it's and it's kind of like when someone who's in a bad relationship tells you like things aren't going well and you have to be like, oh, what do you think's going to happen? That's how most of the people in my life feel about me being alive. Is there like oh, are you not going to be a a podcaster anymore no oh

0:11:35 Thomas: I get it oh my god oh

0:12:11 Eli: I would hate for you to stop dating you you're but you're crushing it so hard with the subway sandwiches in the dark and the basketball shorts oh we sure would miss your you know we'd miss you I think

0:12:15 Tom: Fuck.

0:12:17 Thomas: Shut up wait

0:12:28 Tom: Oh fuck off get out of here with that

0:12:31 Eli: They all know it in their hearts I think you all know it in her hurts speaking of money tom

0:12:36 Thomas: Did you finish whatever that statement was you're planning your thing was that it oh

0:12:38 Eli: Blame my thing everyone has told me that they think I'm gonna kill myself every

0:12:42 Thomas: That was okay I thought you're either you're going to talk about who you're I thought I just started doling out your your uh estate to people on air I thought that's what you were going to do

0:12:44 Eli: Single person

0:12:46 Tom: Christ I just start getting nervous I'm just nervous the whole time he's talking right now just nervousthe whole timehe's talking wait

0:12:52 Eli: Can't

0:12:53 Thomas: Yeah eli you can't die before tom that doesn't make any sense Tom's heart Tom can and will his heart is going to explode Tom you

0:13:03 Tom: What I'm

0:12:59 Eli: Die can't think about the things that have tried to kill tom that's

0:13:06 Tom: Doing great god damn it

0:13:08 Thomas: Can shock your balls awake for five years straight sleeping three hours a night and not die come on come on buddy

0:13:14 Eli: Proof he can't di if I woke up at the time tom wokes up one time I'd die instantly they'd shake me awake they'd be like eli you know that thing about waking up at 4 a .m and I'd be and I would just I would remember that senator who rogue turned into goo in x1 that's what would happen to me if I tried to wake up not even the electric just the time that I tried to wake uptom is immortal also can I say the most fitting punishment for tom is that tom can't die tom is immortal I

0:13:34 Tom: Tom is immortal uh

0:13:22 Thomas: That'd be ashes yeah crumble to dust yeah yeah yeah is to remain alive yeah why does Tom deserve punishment this isn't a mean thing I

0:13:46 Tom: Next

0:13:47 Eli: Don't know what he did he knows what he didn't he hasn't gotten around to it yet he

0:13:50 Thomas: Be very sad when Tom's heart explodes next month I will Be Very Sad I don't know maybe two I will see well

0:13:54 Tom: Month I've only got a month

0:13:58 Eli: Drink water and he's stronger than both of us he can't die when

0:14:01 Thomas: That's that's true those things are true the last things not I don't think that follows I

0:14:07 Eli: Earth is absorbed by the Sun Tom will be absorbed with it screaming forever in his indestructible flesh suit which burns away and creates itself in equal measure over and over and over again screaming screaming screaming and

0:14:10 Thomas: Would

0:14:14 Tom: This is not I

0:14:20 Thomas: Just like to you to know that Eli is the evil one here Tom Tom. I am just noting, I'm just noting the reality of medical science, Tom.

0:14:22 Tom: Don't appreciate this

0:14:23 Eli: When he is pulled at last into the center of the the sun, he will look into the face of God and realize that it's been him the whole time. Sounds about right, doesn't it, Tom? Yeah, pretty fitting.

0:14:41 Tom: Oh boy yeah

0:14:39 Thomas: It does kind of, I mean, either that or it'll be Cecil's cats, but one of the two, look into the face of God and it'll Be one of Cecil cats. I'll be like, I knew it.

0:14:47 Tom: It'll be the cats it'll be the cat's yeah

0:14:52 Thomas: I saw a thing that I found really fascinating as much as we are obviously hyper skeptics about about anything on Reddit, but it also doesn't matter. Cause it's like, sometimes it's, you know, it's interesting situations we want to talk through. This struck me as like pretty realistic. I actually think this is a real person and I thought it was fascinating. I would love to talk about it, but I would Love, I don't know, Tom to read it. Cause I don'T want to read.

0:15:13 Tom: Sure this is a reddit confessions marrying for money sucks and I do not recommend it married a 40 year old when I was 19 started dating when I was 17 yes it was gross but that's what happened the only reason he married me is because I was hot the only reasons I I married him is because he had money I I actually do have other redeeming characteristics but he married me because I was hot I know this everyone knows this it doesn't feel great but I can deal with it we've been married for 20 years four kids so we're stable and we have lots in common at this point and we do love each other but if I could go back and slap myself I would what nobody tells you or they try and you don't listen because you're a dumb ass teenager is that marrying like this this means you will fucking owe him for everything, every goddamn day, not just in the bedroom, but in every other matter in your life. The stuff you never imagined someone else trying to decide for you. And you don't just owe him the money. It's a lot heavier than that. He'll never say it out loud, but you'll know the deal. Fundamentally unequal. He's a man of his word. He'll pull rank at the most random times and will make you feel like you're falling through the floor. I don't hate my life or anything. I accept that I made this bet and I have to lie in it, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else my oldest daughter is two years younger than I was when I met my husband and I can't imagine no

0:15:23 Thomas: Eek.

0:15:31 Eli: Because high school was hard.

0:15:45 Thomas: Poor kids. Doesn't that feel pretty real to you? That's such an intro. I've never, I've never heard this perspective of someone because you think about okay you're hot at 19 so some 40 year old you know marries you or whatever but like they could also still be a very smart interesting person as well and it just struck me that like oh yeah what if that happens what if you mature into an adult who's actually you know kind of cool and interesting and insightful which strikes me as this person might very well be and then you're like wait why man I married married a 40 year old when I was 19, but but they're like, they're happy to have four kids, but then that knowledge is always there. I just found this so fucking fascinating. I'll be honest with you. Like, I was like, what a weird thing.

0:17:12 Eli: The pulling rank thing is a result of the age dynamic or her relationship dynamic, but like, I don't think that's built in, right?

0:17:17 Thomas: Age too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:17:22 Eli: I don't t know about you guys, but I have never pulled rank Maybe it's because I don't have the rank But I don' Some

0:17:22 Thomas: I had a similar thought, but, but imagine, I don't think the age thing is a big part of it, some you of you are were 40 on this, uh, Mike. So some of you, yeah, some of your almost 40, some of you.

0:17:35 Tom: I I was 40 uh hey

0:17:36 Eli: Of us are going to live forever Some of use have 40 eons left to live

0:17:41 Tom: Hey hey

0:17:42 Thomas: Some of you wish you were 40.

0:17:43 Eli: Know it's true Tom You know its true I

0:17:46 Thomas: Imagine that argument you have about a household thing with a 19 year old. Even if you'RE not trying to pull rank, you're gonna be like, okay, but that's fucking dumb, man. You're 19. Like what? You know what I mean? Like I can imagine there's a wealth of knowledge. It could be, it could be the the stupidest 40 year old and the smartest 19 year old, there's still just a wealth of life experience. It's like, all right, that's, that's you don't, you just don't know this thing yet. And could even not even be in like a trying to pull rank way. I guess I'm just saying like, I don't think it's built in, but I also think that it might just pretty much inevitably feel that way. Just cause that age gap is insane. You know, at that age and

0:18:18 Eli: Regularly losing arguments to a 4 year old So I cannot relate

0:18:23 Tom: Well well like I I think if you Look at the age gap in this one met this guy when him when she was 17 which means that that means he was 38 years old so the other thing you have to keep in mind is this guy is a piece of shit right is no world I just want to put this out there there is no world where a 40 year old is interested in a 19 year old and that's okay and there's no world were a 38 year old is interested in a 17 year old and that that's okay. That means that guy sucks, right?

0:18:29 Eli: 17

0:18:30 Thomas: He was my age. Oh my God. 38. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, 38 -year -old and a 17 -year old. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair,

0:18:38 Eli: Sucks And

0:18:57 Tom: A hundred percent of the time that dude sucks. Literally no exceptions. I will allow for no exceptions to that rule. If you are a 40 year old guy and you look at a 19 year old, and you don't see a kid, something is broken in your brain that you should have repaired at the lobotomy store. That's it yes

0:19:17 Eli: It's so bizarre because now I teach kids that age right and like I remember teachers when I was in college dating their students right we had a teacher at nyu who would take his favorite student on a trip with him to paris at the end of the year right and I was just like sometimes older people want to fuck us I guess but I'm a grown -up so I get it right and now I'm teaching people those age and like genuinely they're babies genuinely it is it is like jerking off Off to Boss Baby 2 is what I am feeling.

0:19:46 Thomas: Well, let's not...

0:19:47 Eli: Obviously, yeah. Use an example Thomas hasn't. Yeah.

0:19:50 Thomas: Hold, yeah. Please don't...

0:19:53 Eli: Boss Baby 1.

0:19:54 Thomas: Looks good in a suit, okay? It's

0:19:56 Tom: It's a I'm 46 and I have 18 year old kids so like it's yeah I know I fucking know I

0:19:59 Thomas: Jesus Christ. I thought... Maybe I need to change my timetables on your death. Hold on. You're overdue by a few months.

0:20:05 Tom: Know uh

0:20:07 Eli: So many tens of thousands left, Tom. And when it all ends, when it All Ends at the Center of the Sun, you just wake up a baby again. It just starts all over.

0:20:16 Thomas: A boss baby?

0:20:17 Eli: And for the first 60 minutes of your life, if you remember all the lives you've had before but then it all goes away and you start all over again.

0:20:17 Thomas: I'm gonna jerk off to that.

0:20:25 Tom: So I'm gonna need a minute before we record

0:20:25 Thomas: What did you do to Cecil's cat, Tom? What did your do to Cecil's cat? Uh, yeah.

0:20:32 Eli: All just a dream Tom is having.

0:20:34 Thomas: Yeah. That makes sense. Tom, can you dream better, please? Can you?

0:20:31 Tom: But wish I could are you

0:20:40 Thomas: Maybe you drank some fucking water, your dreams, which are our reality, would be nicer, okay?

0:20:40 Tom: Kidding me uh don't start all right stop we're not going down that road they're

0:20:47 Eli: Do come true and

0:20:49 Thomas: Drink some water, have that, don't have as much caffeine, and all of a sudden, it's not Trump country anymore.

0:20:53 Eli: Maybe they won't give the robot dog a flamethrower. That's what I'm saying.

0:20:57 Tom: Giving nothing we do stops the robot dog from getting the goddamn flamethrower every iteration I've run this simulation so many times and a goddamn dog always gets the flamethrower fuck it's fucking it's all the flamethrower every time fuck

0:21:01 Thomas: Fuck yeah every future yeah dr strange they all 21 million futures they're dog he's

0:21:01 Eli: Stop dreaming it into existence. Distance I'm picturing the scene from endgame where tom holds up the one finger but then we just pan over and it's me being burned by a dog with a flamethrower it's

0:21:25 Thomas: Like there yeah it was still the dog flametrower that was just the funniest one

0:21:28 Eli: The funniest one though it's the one that all his friends agree should have happened oh

0:21:33 Thomas: Yeah no this is insane but but what a weird situation because this strikes me as very self -aware by this girl because again you been fucking groomed at 17 yeah exactly but that's what's so fascinating because I think often as a society we look at that situation and we think like wow that girl is also like I feel like society blames the girl too you sometimes Sometimes it's Anna Nicole Smith marrying an 80 year old or whatever it is. And I'm like, yeah, OK, they're both in on that. That's fine. I don't care, you know, but like not always. That's the rare situation. More often, it's the dude groomed a 17 year old. And it's like to see her wake, self -aware or whatever. And post this very real post. It's like, you have four kids. You it strikes me so real, too, because it's Like, yeah, the marriage is happy enough or whatever, which I believe, like I'm sure it's happy enough, but, but always pulling, it's just like this horrified me to know it. What would you fucking do? What do you do?

0:21:42 Tom: She's a grown -up now yeah right a thousand percent oh

0:22:27 Eli: Well so I've actually been talking about this so spoiler alert one of my students is about to be in a broadway show and I coached her on the audition so thank you thank you yes yes brilliant and amazing uh I can tell the play I can't tell the I can'T tell the actor yet uh proctor's the villain um coming to broad so

0:22:39 Thomas: Wait, can you tell us what or no? Can you tell me and Lydia later? Okay. Don't know what that is, but it sounds awesome.

0:22:49 Eli: A play about this high high school class that reads the crucible uh two of the students sort of understand that john proctor is the villain of the crucible and so in preparing her audition for this we have sort of had to talk about the fact that john proctor isthe villain ofthe crucible it's

0:23:02 Tom: Pretty cool oh

0:23:07 Thomas: I don't know that enough. I don't remember what that means. Sorry.

0:23:10 Eli: The witch one it's the arthur miller play where the witch is so the

0:23:12 Thomas: I know that but I don't remember the character John Proctor I don' t remember that sorry

0:23:15 Eli: Perspective of the play the cruicable and tom you yeah perspective of the play the crucible is

0:23:20 Thomas: Tom's read fucking everything he's seen every future he's an infinite he was

0:23:24 Eli: Yeah he wrote the cruicable because he's arthur miller he's abigail he's john brechter he's all of them yeah exactly more weight more weight exactly yeah and he's also all the stones it's just everything it's all the things

0:23:27 Tom: It I lived through it it was it was biographical yeah right yeah

0:23:26 Thomas: There oh my god that is Tom it is Tom isn' t that Giles somebody I don'' t know yeah that guy

0:23:39 Eli: Exactly yeah so the perspective of uh

0:23:40 Tom: Cory giles yeah

0:23:43 Thomas: Was your name back then that''s

0:23:44 Eli: That was your name back back then and on, on the, yeah, my daughter, sorry, sorry guys, um, the

0:23:45 Thomas: That was my name that was Corey Giles nothing has been I'm so sorry nothing has made more sense in our entire extended joke universe than that tom is the soul of cory giles reincarnated I've never heard a more more

0:24:08 Eli: All of us, he's, he is all of use, we're all Tom reincarnating over and over and over again

0:24:12 Thomas: Weight more ball shocking more less water that's why he's afraid of water the witches just got burned and he's like no I don't know okay

0:24:19 Tom: Much less water.

0:24:19 Eli: It's I I think if he believes it he wakes up and starts again though so we should be careful we shouldbecareful this is why I did all my estate planning so uh perspective of the crucible I promise this is relevant to our topic is that abigail the girl who started the witch trials is the villain right had an affair with john John Proctor, and he ended the affair. And so she accuses his wife of witchcraft in order to like get him back. And then she gets caught up in it and a bunch of other girls. But like the perspective that Miller was writing from is very much that she is the villain, but he's 40 and she is depending on the reading and depending on the version you're reading 14.

0:24:28 Thomas: Please

0:24:28 Tom: Okay. All right. Don't, let's not do that, please.

0:24:35 Thomas: Yeah

0:25:08 Tom: Okay. There you go.

0:25:10 Eli: John Procter is the the villain he's the villain and so I to speak to this situation right like I think what this young person is grappling with in her own way though she probably hasn't put that name to it is like I was preyed upon nobody stopped that person from preying upon me um now I live with the consequences of it and one of those consequences is like not naming that for the the predation it was right and I I think that's like part of why you have to be able to like maybe that's part of Why he is able to pull rank right because like if he can't pull rank well then aren't we going to acknowledge the very nature of this relationship being predatory right isn't that going to come up eventually

0:25:38 Tom: Hundred percent. Embedded in this conversation are some, some interesting truths about how we differently value men and differently value women. What makes men attractive and what makes women attractive so like yeah like like what she's talking about what the the op and this is talking about is like is very typical sort of you tropey stuff right like this guy was valuable because he had money and like there's a million jokes like you see like an ugly dude with a hot woman right and the joke is always like oh my god how much money does he have right because like we know that one of the big things that is attractive attractive for men in the world is money. Money is attractive. Money will buy you attraction,

0:26:08 Thomas: How much they bench yeah we know well there's nothing else about us that's attractIve tom

0:26:40 Tom: I know I've, dude, I've seen, I see the male form and I'm like, women are doing us a lot of favors. I'm

0:26:41 Thomas: I give us kind of a break. It's understandable yeah take some accountability

0:26:46 Eli: You created it tom so I don't know do a better job next time when you wake up yeah

0:26:51 Tom: I, I have a lot to be accountable for then. But I know, unfortunately like women are socially, sexually valued primarily for their looks. And if you compare the two, like are much safer being valued for money, which you can accumulate over time.

0:27:06 Thomas: As long as long as you don't buy too many lottery tickets you could keep that money dude

0:27:10 Tom: It is a much, much better social position. It's a safer position. It's a position that has real longevity and it's a position that literally is power, right? Right. Because that's all money is. All money is is a stand in for different types of power versus women who socially are valued for being, in this case, hot. Right. Like when that's very typical. But if you're valued for just being physically attractive, one that fades like

0:27:37 Eli: It's like being valued for it being three in the afternoon that's

0:27:39 Tom: Right. Yeah. It's such an incredibly dangerous position for only one of those two parties, because the party that has money has power. Or that's literally what money is and the party that has beauty has something on offer that will fade and that person with money if they're saying that the real reason I'm with you is for this thing that will fade why would they continue to be loyal why would They continue to support that person and to like this these kinds of marriages and I know like like there's a marilyn monroe quote which is a pretty good quote which Is like you know a man being rich is like a girl being pretty you might not marry a girl just because she's pretty but my goodness doesn't it help and it's are in that place where the discrepancy between how and why we value men versus women is so patriarchal and it's so heavily skewed in favor of men it's phenomenally dangerous he

0:28:20 Thomas: Arthur miller what's the what was the age gap there arthur

0:28:22 Eli: Right yeah well about how that power dynamic shifts over time right because if you have a certain amount of attractiveness that equals according to this value set my amount of money and if you lose that attractiveness over time and in all likelihood you gain more money that power dynamic becomes even worse right because the less attractive you become as you get older the more money your spouse has the less they value you while you still value them an equal will amount yeah

0:29:12 Thomas: Thought we were gonna come full circle but I guess the age gap wasn't like crazy he was 40 and she was 30 that's like yeah all right but that have been interesting if that whole thing came around like he wrote the fucking thing and he was the villain of the whatever I

0:29:24 Eli: Can I I mean he's the villain trust me he's the villain for so many reasons here's my question right and and look I know there's the stereotypical fucking we've done whole bits about it and if you want to date my daughter I've got a shotgun and a shovel and I mean right problematic shitty gross 17 year old 40-year-old comes to pick up your daughter what the fuck are you doing or

0:29:50 Thomas: Thought you said four -year -old sorry 40 years yeah yeah I I was like, are you making some weird abstract point?

0:29:52 Tom: Did too instead of 40 year old like I'd be like hey all right good you know yeah

0:29:57 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:29:54 Eli: Boss baby yeah we're boss baby

0:29:58 Thomas: Hey, Boss Baby's hot.

0:29:58 Eli: You have you're in a boss baby city yeah

0:29:59 Thomas: We all agree on this show that Boss Baby, we all check off to Boss Baby.

0:30:01 Tom: You know

0:30:01 Eli: It's the official position of issues daddy llc boss baby 2 is

0:30:07 Thomas: That's why the name. That's what I'm saying. That's the way it is.

0:30:08 Eli: Hot yeah of

0:30:08 Tom: Here's here's what's frightening about that because hayley and I have had that same we've had this exact conversation and my initial thing was like oh I would fucking stop that shit you know And, you know, maybe not, of course.

0:30:18 Eli: Course so

0:30:21 Thomas: He might be able to pay some insurance bills for you.

0:30:24 Tom: So here's why that's particularly problematic. And as a parent, I don't know what the right thing to do is, because like somebody who can say, hey, your parents don't understand you come live with me and they have the ability to swoop in and rehouse your kid. Kid and if you are, you being difficult, if you're standing in the way, if you're that guy who's like, hey, I'm taking my daughter and all that and like

0:30:54 Thomas: You might just encourage it is what you're saying.

0:30:55 Tom: Might just encourage it.

0:30:57 Thomas: How you react in that situation? Yeah. Fucking hostage situation. Situation yeah

0:31:01 Tom: Yeah, it is because like if you play that hand too hard that other person can take your fucking kid from you. They just just can,

0:31:10 Eli: Me let me say this I think that in that situation you turn you already fucked up as a parent right Right. But assuming you have it right, you just rolled and you got snake eyes and your 17 year old wants some fucking boss baby dick. Right. Can turn and you can have a gentle, loving conversation with your kid, because I do believe that if you don't come from a place of love in those conversations, you are going to lose your kid. Regardless of whether they do what you say or not. Right. We have a ton of listeners who did what their parents said. And the minute their parents lost that power, they lost those kids because it was the only thing keeping them together. But here's who you don't have to have that gentle conversation with the 40 year old right has a car and a house no

0:31:45 Thomas: Four -year -old dude yeah yeah that's fair but well but then he tells your kid that a different version of your conversation and you're right back there you know what I mean like

0:31:56 Eli: No no I understand that let me say this he's probably saying it through some kind of medical cause right like the amount the level of harm I think I could say this legally because cause it's a fantasy. The level of physical harm I would do to a 40 year old here to marry my 17 year old is not like a, she doesn't find out about it level, right? It's like, uh, the cops come and there's a trial and I'll see you in two to three years.

0:32:23 Thomas: It's like a cartoon where the cast for some reason and one of his legs is hanging in the sling with the cast on it. I'm

0:32:35 Eli: I mean, look, I'd probably give him a chance. I'd be like, Hey, I'm so sorry. Like you've made this this terrible mistake, I'm literally going to murder you.

0:32:41 Thomas: So sorry you made this terrible mistake. This is hurting me. No, it's hurting you more, but we're

0:32:46 Eli: Like, It's the bad place one time when Tom imagined you into this world. He made a mistake. He made him a mistake We're all just balls running down the triangle plinko board of Tom's imagination. And you landed

0:32:55 Thomas: All sinners. And he didn't drink enough water last night.

0:33:01 Tom: You know,

0:33:02 Eli: On zero. You landed on Zero. And that's cool. But I also know that you can walk out of here and get into your Dodge and just drive off get a monster energy and punch a wall and live a good full life where I never eat any part of your anatomy none of it I don't eat any of your body it's all stays out of my digestive system the whole time

0:33:29 Tom: That's so fucking insane. I have no idea how to follow any of that up.

0:33:31 Thomas: That's fair. No, I think that's a good point. He brings up a good thing. That's a great point.

0:33:32 Eli: Just acknowledge

0:33:34 Tom: Know, the, the other thing that, that was a great point. That That was a great point.

0:33:35 Eli: That I made a great point tom god I'm

0:33:37 Thomas: It was. I feel like this situation can never happen. These people, they must not have parents in their lives. You know what I mean? Because a 40 -year -old -ass man Man, going to talk to parents that are probably that age. That's crazy.

0:33:38 Eli: You you of

0:33:47 Tom: This is so common. It might not be as common where it's a 40 year old and a 19 year old, but it is super common that it's 17, 18 year old and a 28 year old and a 29 year old and a 30 year old which is, I incredibly problematic and difficult as a parent because, again, they have probably a house and a car and all those things that the 17 year old that you're trying to scare off or what, you know, like doesn't have right. Right. Like you all of a sudden you are fighting up stream here against somebody that can literally just rehome and rehouse your kid. If things go south, you don't play your hand just right. But like one of the things that we we almost never like kind of go reverses on this. And I think it's really interesting and problematic, too, is that we don't talk about how fucked up it is for a guy to marry a woman just because she's hot. Right talking about like oh he she's marrying him because she wants access to his money well like yeah money a money is a place to live and

0:34:36 Eli: Course did

0:34:45 Tom: Money is but

0:34:45 Thomas: It makes more sense to do that than the other way, is almost more rational.

0:34:49 Tom: Way more rational right and it's way more understandable and it intensely less shallow there is nothing more intensely like and misogynist than to marry somebody just because they're hot but again socially and like I'll I may have relayed this story on the show but I just think it's a really interesting kind of like microcosmic example like when I was single and was hayley was single if if I had created and I didn't have a dating profile and she didn't Have a dating profile but let's imagine that we had created a dating profile and then we swapped them when hayley Was single she was uh when I met her she She was not yet divorced. Was just college.

0:35:29 Tom: So she wasn't, you introduced it. So she was not full -time employed.

0:35:28 Thomas: Who introduced you guys?

0:35:32 Eli: Anyone declare dibs by any chance I'm just wondering or are you a welcher I

0:35:35 Tom: She wasn't full -etime employed. She was, uh, not yet divorce. She, she, she wasn, she didn't have a lot of money. Wasn't employed full -term. Uh, she had a couple of kids and she did not have a a lot of assets, right? Had no shortage of suitors. She had people banging her fucking door down, right.

0:35:52 Eli: Was gonna say tom she didn't have a dating profile but she did have a facebook profile happens

0:35:56 Tom: Yeah. Like, yeah, literally like all she did was change her last name on Facebook and her fucking DMS blew up. Right. So I guarantee, I

0:36:05 Eli: To me all the time I get it

0:36:07 Tom: Guarantee that if I, as, as a, as a guy, if I said, Hey, I'm Tom, I've got a couple of kids, I don't have any money. I would would be immediately unmarketable immediately unmarkable and we all know it right and none of those factors affected her social sexual marketability right they didn't affect it whatsoever they were non -issues because the things that we are valued for as men and women broadly speaking I don't want I'm not talking about your specific relationships broadly broadly speaking, are informed by these like this cultural soup that says like the job of women is to be attractive and the jobof men and what makes men attractive is the acquisition of power

0:36:53 Thomas: How

0:36:54 Tom: And wealth.

0:36:54 Thomas: Many pull -ups they can do yeah 10

0:36:56 Eli: And And we disagree with these things, obviously. Right. I don't think that even needs to be said.

0:36:59 Tom: But they're still socially true. Right.

0:37:01 Thomas: Pull - ups is pretty good I don't know agreed

0:37:03 Tom: And funny because you can also see it when you talk to guys and when you talked to women. And I think people will have of like anecdotal, be able to relate to this anecdotally. When women talk about a guy they meet, their friends will say stuff like, well, what does he do? Guys talk about a girl they meet, what did she look like? Almost never does anybody say, what is she do? We're not valued for the same things. But the things that we're valuing women for are these really ephemeral intentionally. So because I think it pushes them on a back on into a corner like these like like you things that are going to slip out of their grasp beauty is fleeting all of that stuff but like how fucking awful are is a guy who's just like yeah I just married her for her beauty that's worse than marrying for money that's a thousand times worse than married for money

0:37:52 Thomas: My question to you folks is do you say anything if you're this girl if you've you've awoken into this self -awareness do you eventually be like hey it's kind of weird what you did now they think about it you know like fuck

0:38:05 Tom: You wait for him to die well actually it depends on what state she's in they've been married for what 20 years yeah I'll tell you what here in illinois that's prominent that's maintenance that's the other thing here in illinois after 15 years if they divorce he pays her maintenance for life alimony for life so like she's actually got some position at that point financially

0:38:07 Thomas: That's fair shouldn't take long oh allowed to murder yeah yeah

0:38:26 Eli: Well, and that's that's what I think makes this so interesting. Right. And what makes it not a very clear, like, just get out moment. Right. Because she says they love each other. They have four kids and they love one another. They love each Other.

0:38:34 Tom: Except for he's obviously obviously abusive because she's describing financial abuse

0:38:38 Eli: I mean, yeah, she's describing a tremendous amount of abuse. Right. Right. But like she doesn't recognize that. Right. She hasn't woken up to that. And that's what I think is so interesting to this post. Right, because if she's woken up to dat, we're just like, hey, you men have heart attacks all the time and bleach poisoning looks a lot like a heart attack. Go for it, girl. We believe in you.

0:38:55 Eli: Maybe he was cleaning his gun. Yeah, exactly.

0:38:55 Thomas: There's one consistent message of this show yeah I

0:38:56 Tom: Maybe he was cleaning his gun well

0:39:00 Eli: All sorts of stuff. The But point is, wait, when you haven't waken up to tat, when you've just woken u to a situation not being cash money right a really interesting question yeah right gentlemen before we go uh a boomer joke this week is thomas I upset you so much last week I thought I would give you a dad joke dad didn't the deodorant want its daughter carrying a handbag because it was so anti -perspirant you

0:39:22 Thomas: It was pretty upsetting

0:39:24 Tom: That boomer joke oh can we go back to the fucking boomer joe I like the boomer jok thank

0:39:41 Eli: Tom you got Got it, Tom. We're going to alternate. We are going to ALTERNATE.

0:39:43 Thomas: I did this was a

0:39:42 Tom: You thank you and

0:39:44 Thomas: Ploy this was was a ploy he told the worst joke after to try to make the boomer joke look better by comparison this was all

0:39:50 Tom: It was and it worked

0:39:51 Eli: I just spilled a bunch of water.

0:39:55 Thomas: No I think that I think the the bonus story should just be eli dealing with this water spill that he just did how

0:40:01 Eli: I spilled some water. It's okay. Oh, God, I love you.

0:40:04 Thomas: Are you gonna resolve it how are

0:40:05 Eli: Yeah, I'm going to be okay. One second. Stop in there stop

0:40:05 Thomas: Gonna resolve let's see no don't stop we have a parenting story this

0:40:09 Tom: Don't don't stop there we have a we have a parenting story

0:40:12 Eli: All over my desk gentlemen

0:40:14 Tom: I guess we're just doing a parenting store I think

0:40:15 Thomas: Is the new parenting story that's

0:40:21 Eli: Clean up this fucking water I

0:40:22 Tom: What

0:40:23 Thomas: Fine just don't just don's stop your recording no

0:40:26 Eli: To because it's getting all over the place

0:40:31 Thomas: I say don't start the record button you have to turn off the the I

0:40:34 Eli: Because I don't want it to get fucking covered in shit what

0:40:37 Thomas: Don't okay sure I don't know tom your guess is as good as mine I don't know how does he think that it works I don ''t yeah this is we're just just leave this whole thing and this is the story this is the parenting story

0:40:43 Tom: Don't know this is this is the end of the show that's it that's all we need right there is just Eli literally talking into a microphone worried that he has to turn the stop button so it doesn't short out his equipment yeah right you only short out electronic electronics when you have when you're recording yeah it's yeah right yeah other then the the electrons behave differently

0:41:02 Thomas: Because the water affects the stop if you if if it''s recording if it's live if it' s just in standby mode monitoring everything It doesn't use electricity. Yeah. That's just a mechanical process, actually. Well, anyway, you guys.

0:41:25 Tom: See this is why I don't drink water I never spill my water see things I don'T have to worry about is drinking fucking water and spilling that shit everywhere everywhere so I don't have to sweat it

0:41:40 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILF, tom smith who also wrote and recorded the intro music which is used with his permission this podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC copyright 2022 all rights reserved

0:42:21 Thomas: What did you do to Cecil's cat, Tom? What did your do to Cecil's cat?

0:42:25 Eli: You want to date my daughter I've got a shotgun and a shovel and I mean right problematic

0:42:31 Thomas: You drank some fucking water, your dreams, which are our reality, would be nicer, okay?

0:42:37 Tom: Is broken in your brain that you should have repaired at the lobotomy store. That's