DOD178: I Think You Gave Me the Wrong Kid

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and utter dependence. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired.

0:00:22 Clip: Yelling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:29 Tom: To dear old dads the podcast that was switched at birth with a better podcast I'm tom curry I'm joined as always by thomas smith and eli bosnick hello gentlemen

0:00:39 Thomas: I been doing the wrong one?

0:00:40 Eli: Do we start out as one bad mother is that what happened damn it damn it

0:00:44 Tom: Can we switch back that's the question I want to know is

0:00:48 Thomas: Depends on how old we are.

0:00:48 Eli: They're done we're filling the niche of the parenting podcast that says fuck you're

0:00:52 Tom: Want fill the niche of the patreon uh and the ad like what yeah that's That's the niche I'm looking to fill these days.

0:00:59 Eli: That case I would say we were switched to birth with call her daddy I would like one of the big I

0:01:04 Tom: Oh, I was going to give you guys a Haley update because I know the listeners want to know, but I want to give you an update on this letter that I got. Going I'm to read you guys part of a letter I meant to do this.

0:01:10 Eli: Would actually prefer if you didn't thank you oh oh

0:01:17 Tom: Yeah, Yeah, dear Haley. We received a request from your provider for the coverage of services under your health benefit plan. All submitted clinical information was reviewed against the plan document and the utilization criteria adopted by the plan. This review indicated that the requested services are not covered under your plan and consequently your claim is denied. Denial of not approved for the entire inpatient stay for already called on it and I've begun the process of making not true, and I will make that not be true.

0:01:17 Eli: Walking

0:01:43 Thomas: Of 3D

0:01:44 Eli: Right

0:01:50 Thomas: You've started to learn the 3D printing process.

0:01:53 Tom: You've seen Luigi don't make Mario, like you are not

0:01:54 Eli: Where their ceo is going

0:01:58 Thomas: That was the music I was doing, by the way, just in case the joke wasn't clear.

0:02:03 Tom: What a great letter during a stressful time

0:02:05 Eli: i'M LOOKING AT MY COPY OF THE LETTER HERE TOM AND I I DON'T WANT TO CRITICIZE HALEY OBVIOUSLY SHE'S GOING THROUGH A LOT BUT SHE DID WRITE INTO THE COMPANY FOR Or, quote, sick party drugs? I don't think... Maybe it's the language?

0:02:18 Tom: Right yeah I'm sure no a letter like this from your insurance company when like the stress level is already a little on the high side around the old homestead doesn't help like that does not like actually I

0:02:30 Thomas: Why haven't there been more murdered? Why haven't there been more in?

0:02:36 Eli: Because we indoctrinate children from an early age to believe a fiction of nonviolence that has nothing to do with history.

0:02:42 Thomas: I was going to say a fiction of capitalism, but yeah, either the same thing, I guess.

0:02:45 Eli: We had to rewrite all of human history where asking nicely was how change happened. Otherwise, they knew we would kill and eat them.

0:02:52 Thomas: That's true. That

0:02:54 Tom: Yeah. No part of that is wrong. No part of that is right. Know, like I talked to the guy on the phone, like, I, I did immediately call on that because like a five or six day stay in the hospital, it would just be like financially crippling, like for, for just about anybody, you know? Like there's, there's nobody, hardly anybody is writing a check for a five- or six-day stay in a hospital and being like yeah that was fine that was fine you

0:02:57 Thomas: Is absolutely true.

0:03:07 Eli: Of course! For everybody! Right. Jeff Bezos

0:03:14 Thomas: No. Yeah, that is. That's like a month's worth of legal fees when you're in a. I wish I were joking. It's probably not as much as that.

0:03:20 Tom: It probably is pretty much said he's like yeah you know so what's going to happen is like this will get denied and then we'll just have him recode it as a bunch of other bill codes so this whole denial thing is part of the dance between the insurance company and the hospital right now that I'm just getting letters for and

0:03:40 Thomas: Every time time they just try to see oh can we get away with it because because tom who's gonna hold them accountable I'm sorry you can't I'm so sorry I hate this so much who's who's going to hold them accountable there's

0:03:50 Tom: I know. Yeah,

0:03:55 Eli: How to win a time war or how to lose a time war right is that there are two evil nation states just making different forms of sci -fi soldiers and pitting them against each other right that's what hospitals and the health insurance companies are right because the health insurances companies are like deny deny work for the Megatron and the hospitals are like slither into the garden of Dufrat ought to. Oh, unfortunately your insurance has not replied to our missive in the space -time core quampantum. You must call them. No, you must call them! And, like, just in the middle, there's just a churn of human remains being like, at least I took the higher ground!

0:04:05 Tom: Dude.

0:04:35 Eli: Got to hold a model of a house once in kindergarten, so it's all worth it!

0:04:40 Thomas: No there'sno disincentive I I understand like even under the capitalist hellscape we are like which that set that aside even in the for -profit insurance model of for private health care there's basic tom you talk about this all the time basic behavior reinforcement or incentive or disincentive if every time an insurance company tries to deny something a certain percentage of it just works out and they get paid a bunch of money and if it's total bullshit here's what happens that's it that's all that happens not why wouldn't they always be doing it and that's what they do they just do it I ever since 2008 I was working the ophthalmology practice and with a bunch of conservatives by the way he didn't make the connection around the time of obamacare but they were like yeah we have to just change they change the forms every other month because it's like then they can say oh you you had the wrong claim form you know for what there's nobody's making

0:04:44 Tom: Not at all. Yeah Yep. Exactly. Yep.

0:05:10 Eli: That's it, yeah.

0:05:33 Tom: Yeah.

0:05:33 Thomas: The rules there's no oh yeah the claim you're right because if you don't have the right claim form then the medicine doesn't work no it's just so they can have an excuse it's just a fucking carnival game that's all it is it's nothing

0:05:43 Eli: Can I hit you guys with a hotter take? Is, do you ever feel like we're sitting around in Auschwitz being like, I gotta tell you, these gas chambers in can fucking cyst it. Like the other day, you remember he asked Moishe how many gold bars he had made. He said 10 shot him in the head. Today I made 11. He shot me in the foot. Like, I don't understand. Like maybe, maybe the problem is that we continue to exist inside the system, right? Right like maybe we need a little buchenwald sitch going on but

0:06:19 Thomas: I think this is eli's way of just ending the bit like he just

0:06:22 Eli: Guys I

0:06:22 Tom: I think so I don't know where to go with that What

0:06:22 Thomas: He just he just michael scott did our improv he just like pulled out a gun

0:06:26 Eli: Have a gun guys you know the only thing better than the fact that that taylor killed a room of 12 armed nazi guards at buchenvald why it's our patreon over at patreon.com forward slash dear old dads which can can eliminate and extinguish the Nazi guards of podcasting, by which we mean auto ads. Yes, the auto ads which we feed gently one by one into Tom's fiduciary machine so he can continue

0:06:28 Tom: I feel Is panicky

0:06:42 Thomas: Man that is awesome so

0:06:48 Tom: Yikes What?

0:06:58 Thomas: I can maybe

0:06:59 Eli: To give fake medicines

0:06:59 Thomas: Pay for his wife to be alive

0:07:02 Eli: To continue to be married, which I've said it before and I'll say it one more time, selfish, feel selfish. Yeah, I could have bought drugs with that, sandwiches, all sorts of stuff. Like I text you and Haley every morning when you wake up, usually by waking her disguised as a hospital nurse. Selfish. patreon.com .com forward slash dear old dads. Speaking of the medical system, you got a little story for us today.

0:07:15 Tom: I feel stupid I Selfish Yeah.

0:07:30 Thomas: I read an article that and this is funny I didn't even attempt to have Eli read this and that's not a slam on Eli this thing I listen to it because I don't read and the article is 45 minutes of audio I'm sure Tom read the whole thing somehow still while negotiating whether his wife is allowed to live or die with a fucking yeah he probably did

0:07:41 Tom: Jesus Christ.

0:07:43 Eli: Thank God. Surely he did, right? There's no way he would have assigned us as much homework as he has assigned us as a co -worker and not have attributed several sentences of this article to memory perhaps he'd be willing to go through a quick pop quiz on said article and

0:07:52 Thomas: Laughing yeah no I read an article and I thought oh my god this just had it had so many fascinating issues because about an IVF mix-up so like I won't go through the whole thing again it's 45 minutes this is gripping tail but these uh folks find out after um about about a year, they're like, well, we got our miracle baby. Of course they'RE, they, these are people who really want to be parents. It's heartbreaking situation in so many ways. And, and they've through the miracle of medical science and a billion dollars, I'm sure that some asshole tried to not pay or whatever. And the insurance company, they eventually, you Know, are able to, to have a, have a job and you child doesn't exactly look like, you know, necessarily their child. And Um, it's kind of tricky. It's not like super obvious, but like the families are like, it doesn't seem like it looks like the guy at all, which obviously that creates some, some awkwardness, but I'm sure people all knew it was IVF hopefully.

0:09:00 Eli: Fucking tough to cheat that at IVF let me tell you that's a real you know this is not a mailman situation this is a this is an oceans 11 s cup switch yeah this is uh you got to have a little guy folded up inside a box where you you put the specimen into it's a whole thing last

0:09:07 Thomas: You like to make that happen. Yeah, yeah. But But it was different enough. Was African-American, but I think one of them was Asian. So it was enough where they're like, yeah, this doesn't seem right. I think both couples were sort of mixed ethnicity a little bit. But they were like, ugh. And it's funny because it talks about friends being like, I don't want to say anything. It's like, would you?

0:09:41 Thomas: I think I wouldn't ever say anything in a million years.

0:09:41 Tom: What would you say? What

0:09:44 Thomas: Not in a billion years.

0:09:45 Tom: Would you say like, hey, that doesn't look like your baby.

0:09:48 Thomas: Think one of their moms was like, yeah, it doesn't, it took like one of the, you know, like one or their moms to be like, I don't think that's, you know, somebody who always just says the thing.

0:09:57 Tom: He's got your number of arms. That's good. Yeah.

0:10:00 Eli: Name only

0:10:01 Thomas: Yeah. And so what happens is I, I don't remember the details cause I didn't read it. Tom made me read it and I, no, I'm just kidding. I, it's, I, I listened to it like way back when I was wrapping Christmas presents, whenever that was.

0:10:14 Eli: Best for you podcast listener between me and tom not reading it and thomas half remembering it

0:10:21 Tom: I even see it in this slack with

0:10:21 Thomas: We're not a book show fucking nerds. No, because they eventually figured out and they, the IVF people are like, you're okay. And it turns out they've switched embryos. So they switched them and the people, the couples, couples. You know, that's not a real baby you're raising.

0:10:37 Tom: Crystals did they notice right yeah

0:10:46 Thomas: And they switched them. And so the couples that turned out there, this is a California story. They both live in, I think somewhere in Southern California, but they lived near ish. Andso imagine I just, I, there's so many issues here, but around the year of one, the age of one and might've been one, one and a half by the time it's all said and done they figure this out you realize that your baby is not your baby and you've been raising a different baby that and there's another couple that's been raising your I guess genetically baby I'll say because you know if it was an adoption situation you'd be like yeah that's your baby and that's you find that out and it's like they're like a year old let's say the baby's a year older and I just right when I heard that I was like my my God, that's just such a like bundle of like weird, potentially like But what do you do? Do you have the impulse of

0:10:40 Eli: Son of a bitch

0:11:31 Tom: Like what if you meet like your actual baby and and you like you don't like him as well you know what I mean like what if you like if the two couples get together and you're just like well let's I don't know it's like I want to meet my and you just meet your biological kid you're not feeling it you know I'm just not I like this other one better like I it turns out I don't make good babies

0:11:47 Thomas: Like, yeah. The one you have is already like playing the violin at a precocious level.

0:11:51 Eli: You have like a genius and

0:11:52 Tom: Like you make better babies than I I didn't make a good baby I made this shitty one

0:11:56 Eli: Then the other baby is is wearing a mega hat and like like won't use anything for a rattle except a monster energy can used to be married to your wife okay so did I tell you guys about compulsively signing max when he was born

0:12:01 Tom: Compulsively

0:12:07 Thomas: Oh boy stupid compulsively

0:12:17 Tom: Signing him you

0:12:17 Thomas: Signing him oh

0:12:18 Eli: I signed max the minute he came out and

0:12:21 Thomas: Like you autographed your own kid

0:12:21 Tom: The word max

0:12:23 Eli: Wrote my name on my baby's foot and they Were like oh no we use this little bracelet thing and I was like the fuck you do lion piece of shit that comes right off doesn't it some scissors and another bracelet suck a dick I know what my handwriting looks like so I signed my baby and they were like okay we're gonna go bathe them now and I was like I'll come and they Were like okay because I was already the guy first of all I'd made a fuss because of big chungus which we've already talked about on air but I was apparently not a team player because fucking the undertaker split my wife in half but then I was like all right let's go bathe the baby they finished bathing the baby which was really I gotta say like of you know these moments I always think about that that blanket in the ambulance for Arlo and these moments of kindness where someone like reaches out and it is kind to your child and you're like I love you forever one of those moments for me obviously I'm full of love uh at the time but one of Those moments for at washing my baby right she was obviously very lovingly washing a newborn child right this was not tom's medical experience

0:12:26 Thomas: My god oh my God oh my

0:12:32 Tom: Dunk

0:12:48 Thomas: Oh yeah oh

0:13:34 Tom: Dunk

0:13:34 Eli: Where the nurse comes in leaves him at the bottom of the sink and then just like puts it on spray mode and just up and down back and forth he

0:13:36 Tom: Dunk this is Christ I throw him in a dishwasher but in it sanitize it'll be be fine eyelids

0:13:47 Eli: Seems a little fat hands him back to me does she wash the baby right she gives him to me into town she's like you you gently rub, keep in mind this skin's very sensitive right now, and I, like, take the Sharpie out, and she's like, are you gonna sign your baby again, and I was like, yep,

0:13:56 Thomas: The toxic fumes of the ink like oh my

0:14:01 Tom: Forehead

0:14:02 Eli: And, I just kept, I can't tell you how many times I just keep signing the baby, so that when we got him home, and gave him his first bath, he had, I'm not kidding, like seven signatures on him, in various places, cause just whenever there was exposed skin, I was, like that's my baby

0:14:15 Thomas: My god dude you know we often rib tom we often make fun of tom for having stories so insane and like we're on year whatever three or something of this show and we're like wow how have I had not heard that story but you know dark horse eli's insanity because I you've talked about having max a lot and I've never heard this particular bit of absolute insanity just pure your fucking

0:14:21 Tom: Whatever yeah

0:14:41 Eli: We haven't even gotten around to tom wrestling cm punk yet and we know that's a thing from another program yeah exactly well

0:14:45 Thomas: I think that was it yeah that that originated on this show but day and age over here in california and civilization you have a baby you have your own room the baby stays in your room with you the entire time there's

0:14:57 Eli: Our we were in an operating room so I don't think they would have let us stay

0:15:00 Tom: It's different too like because when Eamon was born he was in the NICU so like because was young he was like uh six weeks preening

0:15:04 Thomas: That is different but they used to have the hospitals where they take them into just a farm of babies right or at least in the movies

0:15:12 Tom: Well that yeah they got to hook them up to the matrix early yeah they gotta plug them in otherwise

0:15:13 Eli: And there's a little window yeah right

0:15:14 Thomas: They have to plug them into the non -violence uh sorry we need to play this uh audio tape about how martin luther king just asked really nicely

0:15:26 Eli: Never heard of John Brown. You've never heard of John Brown? You've never heard of John Brown um

0:15:31 Thomas: I misunderstood. I thought you were saying they took him away for stuff from your room from time to time. I didn't think so. You were talking about the operating room. Signed him like eight times. So that's why I said that.

0:15:40 Eli: They took him away all the time they fucking fucked off with that baby constantly yeah because he was a little escape artist when when he was all wrapped up that the nurses were like we tried like nine times and I was like hey I paid really close attention during that childbirth class I can't do this and she was like oh I got this motherfucker and then she fuck it she put him in a little straight jacket he was not getting out of that shit this is great

0:16:02 Tom: Oh like the like like bundle them up or whatever yeah yeah well

0:16:04 Eli: Pro

0:16:05 Thomas: They're so good at that. I love that. They they make just an envelope for your kid that just perfectly seals your your your infant. It yeah you're

0:16:06 Eli: Level bundling yeah and then they hermetically seal it okay

0:16:14 Tom: So Thomas on this story like I go back to the story like because I I didn't read the story I should double check the slack I

0:16:18 Thomas: Telling me none of what Eli was talking about was related to the topic we were gonna do legally

0:16:22 Tom: But like quick legally speaking did it say who who's like who's

0:16:27 Thomas: Speak oh well fortunately okay so that's that's my first that's great thought imagine the possibilities here like imagine well we sort of joked about imagine you want to switch the other couple doesn't that'd be fucked or or vice versa

0:16:38 Tom: Hey

0:16:38 Eli: You don't want to switch the other couple does yeah

0:16:42 Thomas: Or any of that like and And one thing that was really like, just funny, but just like so all of it was about the mothers. Like all of It was like, and the mom felt this impossible guilt and the dad was like well, whatever you want. It's like, not really, but no,

0:16:56 Tom: A baby's a baby you know what I mean they got uh after

0:16:58 Thomas: It sort of, but, but like, honestly, isn't that how we would be like it? Not Not, in that dismissive way, but we, the three of us, imagine we're in this exact situation. We'd be like well what kind of matters is like you wife

0:17:02 Eli: A hundred percent I

0:17:11 Tom: A year I don't know like I'm I'm pretty much like hey hon whatever you want to do on this one but like after a year with something that a person I've been raising as my own I don't know that I'd be like whatever you want to do babe like I don'T KNOW THAT THAT'S LIKE

0:17:24 Thomas: It's not so much that it's more that like okay what's going to matter that was me joking what's gonna matter is the mother's feelings and emotionally dealing with this like that's what that's like the thing you're going to have to work around is going to be that because that's such a tough tough thing to go through like the whole thing's impossible exactly

0:17:41 Tom: THE WHOLE THING'S IMPOSSIBLE THE WHOle THING I GENUINELY LIKE MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS LIKE YOU'VE GOT TO GET ALL THE PARENTS TOGETHER TO GO TO LIKE QUAD COUPLES COUNSELING OR SOMETHING LIKE LIKE IF THEY WERE CLOSE BY THAT WOULD BE THE BEST THING TO DO IS TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT together to path forward on this because I can't even imagine like there would be a part of me that would be like yeah of course I want my biological child for for some very practical reasons you know like like we have we have a shared genetic history that like may actually medically matter but like after a year of raising a baby I'd be like that's fucking my baby like I'm sorry I have an asian baby or whatever like fine it's fine like that'S MINE I don't know that I would be like, yeah, I'm going to turn it over.

0:17:59 Thomas: So hard. Yeah. I know. I don't. Yeah, it's tricky, man. Do you feel that way? Wow. Here's my question to you. My first question to your guys was going to be, obviously, it's discovered a week later, it is like, oh yeah. Okay. Just swap the baby. I mean, obviously you'd feel a little weird about it. Yeah it's like, Oh, okay. I barely even even use this one like here's just but but like and five years you're fucking way like that's this is what it is I was wondering what that time felt like for you guys like what feels like that switch over time where it's like but

0:18:33 Tom: I'm not invested already. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah yeah.

0:18:49 Eli: Feel it's the newborn forest right three months is the end of the newborn forest right it truly stops just becoming a slug that cries right like it's still really really a slag that cries but they're right

0:18:58 Thomas: That just turns into like a frog that cries you know it doesn't get that much better

0:19:01 Eli: But it's it's a frog and

0:19:02 Tom: Until its tail falls off. It's yeah.

0:19:05 Eli: Yeah think three months is where you go okay it's kind of a person now that's my cutoff

0:19:13 Thomas: So and you wouldn't switch back. So imagine you have another baby and then you, see Max is somewhere. Max is just out there somewhere. And they're like, Hey, we want to switch back or something. You're just like, Nope, man.

0:19:23 Eli: I'd be like nah nope you can't have him you

0:19:28 Tom: I don't think I'd switch back.

0:19:29 Thomas: That's rough.

0:19:29 Eli: Can have him if you try to get him I'm gonna kill you and anyone you bring that's

0:19:35 Tom: I feel Yeah I feel similarly like I feel like you hand me a baby and now it's mine to take care of and that's mine. Yeah and And now I start doing this baby. I start bonding with this baby and I start taking care of it and feeding it and like holding it and singing a little fucking songs and doing all the like things you do to feel love. And like if really no other analogy that works in any way at all.

0:19:40 Eli: My baby oh

0:19:51 Thomas: Yeah. I hear all that. I heard all that It's impossible. It's

0:19:58 Tom: There's no other knowledge that works. But like, yeah, this is the baby that I've grown to love. Like the other baby has my genetics but one's mine the

0:19:58 Thomas: Possible. Yeah, it really is. For sure. For sure. That's the part I was going to say. Okay, so that was the thing I was gonna say, Tom, and maybe that that doesn't impact you the way it would to me because it wouldn't be so much like, oh, this baby that I've raised isn't mine. That that's not the thought I would have. It would be like, oh, shit, my baby is out there. I it wouldn' be like oh, I want to get rid of, I'd be like no, I love this child and that's a heartbreaking situation.

0:20:27 Tom: Is they both feel like yours right

0:20:28 Thomas: Exactly, but like I I'm just saying it wouldn't be very easy for me because I would feel like oh no, my baby's out there and someone else has my baby and that's a tough thing to feel. I don't like that. That would be a hard thing.

0:20:38 Eli: See that would be dope as shit for me and my jeans right because statistically I just won oh I'm sorry did you end up with these jeans like imagine you walk into that room with those other parents and you see me and you realize the genetics you just got stuff imagine see my just eating second of two veggie delight sandwiches and just of lettuce in my beard and you go oh this guy's kid is who I'm gonna raise just I would I would text that guy all that once they agreed to keep my baby suckers I would text them all the time and I'd be like hey Diane and Joel it's Eli I'm eating while I dictate this voice memo to you um three or four he's gonna get sad that's

0:21:01 Tom: Back sees Tracy's backsies

0:21:15 Thomas: Man.

0:21:24 Tom: Oh

0:21:33 Thomas: Oh, no. Oh,

0:21:34 Tom: God God, I

0:21:35 Eli: The end of the message I just thought you guys would like to know um good luck I

0:21:37 Tom: Feel like I feel like part of this question like depends on like whether or not you really ever felt that strong biological imperative. So like part of I think and Thomas correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm like feeling like there's a like a big difference between you and I because like I never had a biological imperative to a kid like I never felt the urge to have a kid. I just had kids. But like once I had a kid it was like all right well here's this like little person and this responsibility and like I had all these attendant feelings as a result of this but I never had the biological like drive to have kids I think you very much did I think vous very much felt that biological imperative and so like I wonder if a lot of your ties to your specific genetics sort of like you know resultant from that biological imperative does that make sense

0:22:30 Thomas: Not sure if, I'm sure. I'm just not sure that phrasing, I really wanted kids as biological is necessarily like a guaranteed move. You know what I mean? Like is there any way to want kids are you just calling that biological if you have any desire for kids or

0:22:45 Tom: I think that there's a lot of reasons that people want to have kids. And there is the I think for a lot of people, there is just this sort of baseline drive to procreate. And that is just this biological imperative that's built into all animals that has nothing to do with like, oh, I want you know, I have thoughts about raising them and I have a desire to be a dad in this specific like lifestyle changing way those are like kind of after the fact to some degree all animals for the most part have an impetus to procreate

0:23:17 Thomas: I agree I just wouldn't was wondering how you're characterizing what you're considering my drive to have kids because I felt all those things together probably really I felt like all those yeah

0:23:27 Tom: And I don't know that they can be pulled apart necessarily

0:23:29 Thomas: Like I always wanted to have children and I wanted to be a dad and to do all like that's that too but I've always I've talked about I'm not calling I'm you out or or anything. I was just wondering how thinking about that. Talked about like, there's definitely the component where you look at the kid and it's like, yeah, that's my kid. That's our, that'S, it's not just me. It's also Lydia. Like it's also your favorite person has created this, you know, half of this kid's genetics. And that process of, you that really like loving process of recognizing your baby in that way is a powerful thing for sure. And, and to be sure it's it's also not the only thing in parenting, but like for me, it certainly is part of it. Yeah, no, for sure. But I wouldn't say that it's like, oh, I had a biological urge, you you Know, I also have always just wanted to be a dad and have kids. All, like you said, I think It's all combined. I don't know if I could really separate it, but I you connect that? Do you think, Like, cause Tom, you I just messaged us that your your, clone is actually a better model than you just

0:24:23 Thomas: Beat you in arm wrestling. A thing that I think is impossible. And I would like to see for, know for sure. Like, imagine instead you got one of my wiener kits. Imagine you got a total wienerkit. No, I'm just kidding. But to ask a serious question, part of that is like part of the just amazingness of having kids is like, wow, chip off the old block. You when it comes to you guys, here's two blocks who can fucking lift a lot of weight, just absolute shit ton of weight. And it's like, well, kind that's of that's your kid, you know?

0:24:23 Tom: For real yeah but like I guess I I feel like like I can speak to that a little bit as a step parent too, because like, as a step parent, I feel an intense love and bond with my definitely not biological kids. Like Donovan and Aislinn are, they don't look like me. I didn't, you know, had no part in creating those kids. Physically very different, you like I take care of them. I,

0:25:16 Thomas: Course. That's Why I phrase it the other way. It's not saying, oh, this is not my kid. It's saying, Oh my kid is out there. I That's, just want to make clear. That's kind of the point I'm making.

0:25:25 Tom: Yeah. No. And I, I genuinely don't Know how, I Don't know how I would feel about that. I don'T know that I would be that worried about it for me, but maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I would be super worried about

0:25:34 Thomas: Have a little mini Tom walking around somewhere out there in society with God knows who could be Eli as his parent. You don't know, you don't Know what's happening and you wouldn't have a, like, especially with how much, your like kids look like it's that I think, you know we said it from the beginning. There's no good answer here. There's it's not like there's some answer where you're like hey we're all great this all worked out better you know I'm glad it happened no that's not that's it but that that would haunt me I think to know that like that my kid was out there

0:26:02 Eli: I mean good prank on my part but I think what I would ask for and let me be vulnerable let me open my heart I think I'd be like I want to fight someone in your organization there has to be a person right yeah yeah, yeah, no, not the other parent. I'd be like, there has to be a person, right? Because this is all like records kept and blah, blah, blah. You're not hurling things around back there. So you probably have a pretty good idea of who messed up and when. And I and this other dad, and I don't want to speak for you, sir. Nice to meet you, by the way. Watch out for depression and IBS. Would like to fight that person.

0:26:16 Thomas: The other parent the ivf oh okay yeah for sure yeah yeah hi

0:26:40 Eli: Now, they can fight back. I'd prefer they fight back, but if you could, like, give me their name and their picture so I could sort of do a most dangerous game situation we could leave the lawyers out of this right

0:26:40 Thomas: I think

0:26:41 Tom: Still

0:26:53 Thomas: That might work because yeah you're otherwise you're getting millions of dollars like obviously it they ultimately they settled both couples settled with the company god knows what that amount is they didn't say because that's obviously part of of the settlement and

0:27:04 Eli: That's such a sweet deal for me I get someone else's genetic baby and 10 million dollars and

0:27:11 Tom: Doing

0:27:07 Thomas: To hunt someone for sport apparently yeah but I I imagine eli pitching that to the company and they're like that's out of the question but how much would you just just curious how much was he knock off

0:27:21 Tom: It out

0:27:13 Eli: To hunt someone for sport it's the best out of the question you know they're sending you out of it there's no hospital in america that's not

0:27:23 Tom: Of the question.

0:27:26 Thomas: I'm like that that's part of the quest just curious how much wood you knock off the settlement if we were able this is this total out of of the question thing which

0:27:30 Eli: What are we talking about here is this like a hunt to the death thing or you're just gonna sort of like give him a couple of you know chickens we're mad at him too I gotta tell you chris oh did I say his name oh I said his first name my bad so I do know his name I do know his knee I do no his name 30

0:27:42 Thomas: We had discussed a 50 million dollar settlement but this is you're suggesting something just out the pale that we would reduce it to say 30 and also give you the name and address of this fellow that

0:27:56 Eli: And I already gave you chris's name that

0:28:01 Thomas: One was on bond me that's for free that's on us.

0:28:03 Eli: Was um that was good that was good but I could save you so much googling

0:28:08 Thomas: I and another reason this article really stuck with me, because for me, that time period, they were right about at it. Like, year is like a pull that's close to as late as I would even think about maybe doing something like this. You know, like I, if it was two, I don't think, I Don't think you're doing it. I, I, yeah. Yeah.

0:28:22 Tom: You can't you can that's like know what else to say other than like it would feel like they're both your kid like as much as I I understand the appeal of wanting that like my genetic kid I just can't imagine being like well this morning I'm gonna wake up and I'm going to put clothes on this baby I've been raising for a year and hand it to somebody else forever I just couldn't imagine doing that like I could not hand off no I couldn't do it

0:28:30 Thomas: Yeah. My Yes. A hundred percent. Yep.

0:28:50 Eli: Should caveat that we uh this is not about Remy because I think we could all agree

0:28:55 Thomas: No, of course we had a no Remy's. Oh man. Remy is finally my kid, whatever age he is now.

0:29:00 Eli: Remy no Remy Remy know Remy that's actually what the Smiths say when they fuck right before Thomas comes no Rami's no Ramy's no Remi's no remy's now wait

0:29:11 Thomas: Ramy is he's finally, man. He's finally doing it. He is so cute. He is God. When he is not screaming, he is the cutest. He so fucking cute. You know, okay. OK, I got to tell you this one just for fun, just just because the Remy, the Ramy bashing has been rough there. The cutest thing.

0:29:25 Eli: Wait wait the Remy bashing or the Ramy because I don't want this turned around on me don't be in a therapy session somewhere with 21 year old remy I

0:29:30 Thomas: It's not. No, nope. I'm not turning around on you. I'm turning around Onme and saying I would like to say a fun thing about Remy because the poor guy.

0:29:39 Eli: Know that I'm comfortable with that

0:29:42 Thomas: So after we they do um skating or one it just depends we take we get them we get them happy meals because these kids are fucking spoiled piece of shit and we and we they got they've gotten more happy meals than they've ever got yeah every single like week they get a new fucking toy from a happy tom how many happy meals did you have as a kid

0:29:52 Eli: You splurge on a happy meal do you top

0:30:00 Tom: Oh my dad didn't do McDonald's he liked burger king we'd go to burger king but very rarely

0:30:04 Thomas: Burger King.

0:30:04 Eli: I just like to bring the voice of sanity and say that happy meals are not a nice thing just my

0:30:09 Thomas: Yeah, they are, though. My dad is the inverse of your dad in the in the fast food wars, because my dad was always McDonald's, never Burger King guy. Maybe I'm glad they didn't meet. They would have not done anything, but they

0:30:20 Tom: They would have yeah they wouldn't have it would have they would have imploded like matter and anti -matter

0:30:22 Thomas: Could have fought. Yeah. Yes. But I got maybe like two, two

0:30:25 Eli: Dad was an arby's guy in case In case anyone's wondering about there and TV land,

0:30:28 Thomas: Fucking happy Happy Meals, you

0:30:27 Tom: Wait your dad was an arby's guy

0:30:30 Thomas: Ever ate fast food? I thought you were too good for it.

0:30:33 Eli: For 555. you kidding me? Dad ate nothing but fat. Cause mom made us eat vegetables and fucking Koi pond shit. Every But when she was gone for a month, Oh man, we were just on, we were on fucking top of it. Are you getting, when they invented the party box at Taco Bell, I thought we were going to move in. I thought We were just going to live there.

0:30:40 Tom: Koi pond shit

0:30:41 Thomas: Koi Pond shit. Man, for sure. I do want to move there still. So we noticed that whenever Remy would see the Minions on TV, on whatever, Disney, whatever the fuck, he'd say, boogers, boegers. And we're like, what the fuck are you talking about? You know, like he's got some weird words. We're like what is this? And then Lydia, to her credit, figured out, oh, the Happy Meal toy is always Minions, so he thinks they're called burgers.

0:31:21 Thomas: And to this day, still, it's been like, I don't know, half a year. He still calls the fucking Minions burgers. It's so funny. He'll be like, burgers. I'm like, yeah. Every time he's gotten a Minion, he's also gotten a burger. So how would he?

0:31:22 Tom: Burger

0:31:34 Thomas: It's that famous, like, philosophy thought experiment. Like how if every time you you get a burger there's a minion how do you know which one's the minion which one is the burger that's can't

0:31:43 Eli: I don't even know

0:31:34 Tom: Yeah which one's the burger burger

0:31:43 Eli: Which one's the burger.

0:31:44 Thomas: Be done we need uh what's his now what's this fucking wait

0:31:46 Eli: Dwight the Mint in the office.

0:31:48 Thomas: Did what's -his -name die hold on did what'S -his name die no the last the horseman who didn't suck no yeah did he die he did die oh wow it's been a rough time I forgot about that but anyway we need daniel dan's ghost to uh solve this one for us no um remy's super but yeah this is like around the latest time but here's here was my other thought I think what this moment would need is a very committed and serious reframing because here's the other thing oh shit I didn't tell you this one of the couples I think it was only one ofthe couples had another kid and so they had the the of like oh older sister is like wait my you sibling this person is gonna leave and that would be also really really hard but that was why in my in my head I thought okay I think I would do what these couples did which is they started meeting up they would just meet up and have a little play dates to see how they felt and basic

0:31:51 Eli: Remy? I feel like he would have told us. Daniel Dennett. He did die. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:31:53 Tom: You would have known if start swinging together I'm I'm hanging up like I I know you guys and if they starfucking I'm done with the show

0:32:45 Thomas: I'll be honest in that situation tom a commune is like not um the worst option like that's just a way of to that's the way to have it all like a quadruple of just like it is it is I'll

0:32:46 Eli: Close -minded. Ooh! That's a great solution! Do you see how you limit yourself, Tom? Do you See how you Limit Yourself? You and your fellow monogos?

0:32:58 Tom: There you go

0:32:59 Thomas: Be honest it's it's not the word like think back. Okay. Tom, if you don't want to go that, that route, think, think back, think back to like five minutes ago when society wasn't shaped the way that capitalism in this country has shaped it. And you had like multifamily kind of multi-generational households. You had different, you know, you might have like, it's almost like a cousin situation or something that would be like the ideal of this.

0:33:04 Eli: Get to get fucked in the ass by another guy? Lots of benefits.

0:33:22 Eli: Fuckin' your cousins. Sorry, I lost the thread a little bit. What did we say?

0:33:27 Thomas: Sorry. You didn't do the reading. No. That would would be like the ideal way to to remedy to remedy this in a way that would like kind of still maintain something normal is oh yeah those are the cousins and we live real close you know like right next to each other it's like but I thought especially it occurred to me when they were trying to explain it to the like three -year -old or whatever the older sibling where I was like okay if and you're gonna do this you gotta I think you gotta have a really solid reframing which would be deathly traumatic to me. Like I would be like, this is fucked. Like this whole thing is fucked, I can't believe this is happening. So I was think, you tell the 3 - year - old, yeah, this we rescued this baby. We were watching this baby . We were, like Like it a caring thing. Yeah. We were taking care of this, this for this year to make sure they were okay. And someone else was taking care OFAR child to make sure they're okay. And now that they're, okay. We still get to see them all the time, but like, you would have to reframe it real hard in that way. You know, like you'd have to turn it into, I was just thinking like, what do you tell this three -year -old? What would I tell Phoebe if it was Arlo?

0:34:25 Eli: Okay. Here's my plan. Here's you've decided that you're going to switch the babies, right, in however many months or weeks or whatever. Because you've got to plant the seed fast, right? And you're like, you until the kid does something bad, right. And you get down on their level and you're, like, honey, hitting at preschool, you're gonna change your brother all right so when little boys and little girls are bad right their little brothers sort of absorb all that naughtiness and they're gonna change and it'll happen really fast right kind of like Santa comes right like Santa yeah it'll be just like Santa it's just one night we'll wake up and and the bad baby will be here and we'll never be able to get rid of the bad baby

0:35:03 Tom: The bad baby

0:35:05 Thomas: And you just don't say anything. Thing after that you have to gaslight the kid what are you talking about

0:35:09 Eli: Then you switch and then then you're like what are you talking about when they're like the bad baby you're like we never said anything about the bad baby but then you hold perfectly still and you droop your mouth open for a little bit and you're like huh what what would you say and and then your your kids in psychosis their whole life

0:35:21 Thomas: What's there yeah okay no that's one that's One Solution god

0:35:30 Eli: It's like a drew Barrymore thing how she thought et was real like you have a real opportunity here to throw a good pitch

0:35:30 Tom: This is that is don't wait

0:35:36 Thomas: And then she's flashing David Letterman you know there's it's a straight line I'm thinking weird shit like that oh

0:35:40 Eli: This is right yeah come

0:35:43 Tom: She flashed david letterman I

0:35:44 Thomas: Come on how do you not know this most famous clip Jesus here's the thing all right let's talk about that that's more important in this issue. I had completely forgotten about that until I saw a Reddit post about it. And I realized that I'm, I think I'm her age or maybe I'm a little, I'm probably younger. No, we're, are we younger than her?

0:35:45 Eli: On tom attached to public culture jesus

0:35:47 Tom: Know this okay okay I didn't know I

0:36:02 Thomas: I can't remember. We no, might no. We're, we'RE definitely younger than HER. Anyway, as a kid though, I kind of had a crush on her. Not going to lie. I liked, I liked Drew Barrymore as a child. And so in my, I don't know, what was I? 10 when I, when was aware that that fucking happened on David Letterman somehow. I don'T remember how or I might have been older and saw it on like a rerun or something I don't know and I was like well that's fucking great because I'm 13 or whatever I was at that time and then I saw the reddit like I just saw someone shared it like oh remember this kind of thing on reddit and I was like oh boy that's very sad and scarring like I saw it

0:36:02 Eli: Yeah

0:36:03 Tom: Have no idea oh no

0:36:34 Thomas: In a whole different light because they're like yeah she was like really high and she just like flashed David Letterman for his birthday or something and I was like oh boy this hits all kinds of different now at this age When I was 13, it was like, sweet, dude.

0:36:46 Eli: No it does not hold up to time yeah

0:36:47 Thomas: Now it's like, oh, boy, he was so much older. So much older,

0:36:50 Eli: It falls into the category of britney spears wherein if you think about your participation in it for too long you want to batman yourself right you honestly it's as as close as we'll ever get to the experience of being boomers right because someone's like hey what did you have to say about britney spears when she was going through a mental health crisis and being made a literal slave by her dad and you're like here's the thing okay I hurt I

0:37:06 Thomas: Not good. Ooh.

0:37:20 Tom: I love that he just starts scream laughing like that's just

0:37:23 Eli: I was here's a thing I had a real hard when oh here's I'm I fell and scrape my knee seriously if you haven't done this find any man in your life over the age of 30 and be like hey what did you ever say about britney spears during her crisis and watch them turn into everyone who's ever voted for trump right there before your eyes I don't care you corner rupaul and ask him what he had to say about brittany spears and

0:37:34 Thomas: That's a good point. Yeah, absolutely. Famously, I didn't give a shit about any pop culture. I'm saved. I'm rescued. I didn't care. Care

0:37:55 Tom: Think

0:37:55 Eli: Don' t believe you come

0:37:55 Tom: You and I very much the same yeah

0:37:57 Thomas: My god you don't believe me you don' believe me that I wasn't really into britney fucking spears come on dude eli

0:38:03 Eli: On you said something problematic in between the husks of corn it's

0:38:06 Thomas: You gotta take the good with the bad there's a lot of bad that comes with me but the good is I obviously never gave a shit about any of that yeah

0:38:14 Eli: Who are you going to hear about britney spears from a snake

0:38:16 Thomas: Yeah I'll tell you though those snakes did some problematic fucking things I should I ought to talk to them oh

0:38:22 Eli: Little hoods think about those snakes as they say a lot of sellers it's

0:38:34 Tom: So my god all

0:38:36 Thomas: But should probably tell people the ending because it's not my story to tell but we've come this far they did what you're saying they did us I

0:38:43 Eli: Not my story to tell who's in the new york times

0:38:46 Thomas: Know I was just kind of a joke but did they they slowly uh started this approach and they but and it's so heartbreaking because both the moms are just having like nightmares and like feeling so much guilt which is like the goes to show the amount of shit that either whether it's just society or whether it is genetic or evolution driven but like what did these moms do like they did absolutely nothing wrong and yet both of them was it was like the tell tale heart for both of the they were like both of felt like they killed somebody it

0:39:15 Eli: Thomas they did cheat at baby having right they did sheet they used baby steroids not supposed to welcome

0:39:19 Tom: Cheated at baby having yeah

0:39:21 Thomas: It just goes to show like how much of the that stuff is like like obviously just bound up in in you it's such a tough thing like moms have it so hard I think it just it feels like this failure apparently and I don't know where all of that comes from and so they're Both trying to Figure out like can we do this you know like can Can we because they, made the baby blankets. They've done all the stuff that they're a year old, you know, and so slowly they start just doing play dates and then slowly they started doing like a longer play dates or like they'll, you know, maybe they'll come over and they'll and like over the course of I forget exactly how long but quite a while they took it pretty slow. They eventually do the process of switching the kids and they're like by the end of the article. They're like, yeah, I still I still like wake up with a nightmare. Like, oh, this kid needs me, you know, like, but I think

0:39:36 Eli: To dear old moms everybody jesus yeah

0:39:41 Tom: Asshole. Jesus

0:40:16 Thomas: That would have been true either way. I feel like you would have woken up either way and been like, oh my kid's out there and needs me.

0:40:17 Tom: Christ. What you do, and I mean this, is you say, all right, here's what we're going to do. We are never going to meet that other baby. This is the baby that's in my house. This is, yeah,

0:40:29 Thomas: This is the Tom's ex route. Yeah. That's my ex baby. I can't even see it.

0:40:34 Tom: Because here's the healthiest way to deal with with it you put that information in a box in your mind you put that on a high shelf in your mind and you shut the door that that's in and you never look at it or feel it again that's the only way to deal with it

0:40:40 Eli: And you just squeeze that's right that's

0:40:46 Thomas: But what if you're not a psychopath, Tom? What if you're NOT a sociopath?

0:40:49 Tom: That's a weird sentence

0:40:50 Thomas: I'm just kidding.

0:40:50 Eli: The good thing thomas if you do that for long enough you You get good at it.

0:40:54 Thomas: Oh you gotta to practice at it what's

0:40:54 Tom: That's a it's

0:40:56 Eli: I'm sure Tom was like, I don't want to fight in the car wash. But six times in, he was like I guess this just goes in the box. Right? Like you get, you adapt. Could you play hockey the first time you tried? No, you learn new skills.

0:41:05 Thomas: In the box paint let's

0:41:11 Eli: See, I was going to suggest that you get together with the other family and you're like, guys, suicide.

0:41:15 Thomas: Make another one oh god

0:41:18 Eli: Let's just all, it didn't work out. Right? We're, it's going to be bad right we're all gonna have a bad time so let's just you know what I'm saying let's just

0:41:19 Thomas: And the and the other guy was like see this is why we want our kid back yeah they they at Anna they're like come on this is you did like come on oh

0:41:32 Tom: Suggestion for everything we we can't keep doing this

0:41:40 Eli: You kidding Anna's totally backing me we're coming in like Ashton Kutcher in pranked or whatever that show was right we were hitting people in the face with a glitter cannon like oh genetic loss like we got you Anna's gentlemen before we go got a boomer joke for you I fucking my secretary up the ass the other day when my wife walked in she said you can't do this to me and I said yeah that's why I'm doing it to her boomer

0:41:51 Tom: Fuck

0:42:07 Thomas: Boy I what sorry what we're

0:42:07 Tom: Oh god I like the boomer jokes I fully endorse the boomers jokes it's

0:42:16 Eli: Jokes you

0:42:14 Thomas: Doing this again oh really Tom you're a fan of the boomerang show well

0:42:21 Eli: Found the boomer jokes or

0:42:22 Tom: Either that or the or the bad dad jokes I'm these

0:42:25 Eli: The puns yeah

0:42:25 Thomas: Remember the one other day that was delightful that we chuckled at I can't remember now that I say that it was good though what was it no it was that Amazon primates primates primates that was it oh rip into it oh shit I

0:42:31 Eli: That's a good time rip into it lydia thought I forgot I didn't forget rip into it I saved it for the end I saved her for the end I got it just now I've

0:42:41 Thomas: Feel like we've forgotten that a lot lately okay

0:42:43 Eli: Never forgotten it a lot I forgot it one time that's

0:42:45 Tom: Are on your knives you can't forget about it

0:42:45 Thomas: That's right story time tom got us murder weapons to kill I think I think the next gift is this is your target it's a health care ceo yeah

0:42:53 Tom: It's a pocket knife

0:42:58 Eli: It's that nurse you got a photo of a different nurse at that hospital with yours right because that's what I got yeah yeah

0:43:04 Thomas: That's interesting interesting

0:43:05 Tom: I mean it's there's suggestions there's such I mean you can use your gifts however you guys want to use your gifs you know yeah

0:43:09 Eli: Open

0:43:07 Thomas: It didn't say rip into it question mark it said it's a maybe consider ripping

0:43:12 Eli: Up some boxes mine said rip into her Her, which I didn't like as much. Yeah, I didn' t.

0:43:16 Tom: That was a little yeah they didn't want to print that they did not want to print that on the side of the yeah

0:43:21 Eli: He had to draw in the her with Sharpie.

0:43:24 Thomas: But you murderer health care ceo can you please do it with a dear old dad's knife that says rip into like please okay

0:43:29 Tom: I don't have one there's only two in existence and you guys have them so you guys got oh

0:43:31 Thomas: Well we better we better better get you one based on recent mail you've received. I think I better get you one.

0:43:38 Tom: Fuck's sake jesus christ like

0:43:45 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, tom smith who also wrote and recorded the intro music which is used with his permission this podcast is a production of daddy issues llc copyright 2022 all rights reserved

0:44:25 Tom: Yeah, let me grab this letter here.

0:44:28 Eli: Away from the mic mid -record cord welcome welcome to the joe rogan podcast

0:44:30 Tom: No. This is good stuff. This is great. This is really good stuff, yeah.

0:44:32 Eli: Everybody I guess we just take shits on on air now now unfortunately your insurance has not replied to our missive in the space -time core quampantum. You at least I took the higher ground!

0:44:35 Tom: Here

0:44:42 Thomas: But what if you're not a psychopath, Tom? That's my ex baby. I can't even see it.

0:44:49 Eli: Would be dope as shit for me and my jeans right