DOD170: Eli Made the Mistake of Asking a Parenting Group Something

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:28 Tom: To Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's definitely got takesies backsies. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen. That was very mrs doubtfire

0:00:41 Thomas: Doubtfire, uh Hi.

0:00:42 Eli: Sure, look On episode like 200, man. All right, you gotta mix them up with some silly ones every now and then, can't that's

0:00:45 Tom: Yeah

0:00:52 Thomas: Hello. Yeah

0:00:52 Tom: As opposed to the serious the serious tone you've struck

0:00:53 Thomas: I'll do all this Good Day Tom

0:00:54 Eli: Right Wow exactly, yeah. Greeting Tom like a fucking 1940s newsman. He needs color, he needs difference. But guys, you know, the only thing worse than Thomas just shitting on my, my delightful hello, just now.

0:01:00 Thomas: Salutations

0:01:10 Eli: Why?

0:01:08 Thomas: What? I just said it was, it

0:01:12 Eli: It's the auto ads.

0:01:12 Thomas: Was Mrs. Doubtfire. I don't necessarily think

0:01:14 Eli: Auto ads, they're bad.

0:01:14 Thomas: That's bad just was What?

0:01:12 Tom: I like Mrs. Doubtfire.

0:01:16 Thomas: It was and

0:01:16 Eli: You hate them, we hate them. But they feed our children, and that's important. But if you feed our children, we'll let the auto adds stop feeding our children. That's not how it works. But look, give us money over at patreon.com forward slash Dear Old Dads.

0:01:29 Thomas: Uh Eli What fresh hot dog related content tent it

0:01:33 Eli: Was just going to say where for as little as a dollar you get a commercial free version of every single show. You know, a little parenting story at the end of the episode when Tom decides to show up. And you'll also get our monthly bonus episode. This month, I asked the gentleman a controversial question. Something that cuts to the core of who we are and what we want.

0:01:51 Thomas: Was a real frank conversation

0:01:54 Eli: It's a real, real the heart place. And we all discuss it over on the bonus. It's lot of fun. Check it out. If you need something light, something fun, something silly, that's going to do the trick for you over at patreon.com forward slash dear old dads in the words of popo, rip into it all. Right, gentlemen, so I gathered you here today because I had an experience that I think is doubly fitting for our show. The first is a parenting issue that I'm going through that I'd love your guys's, like, take on. And the second, and this is sort of probably the more fun version, is I made the mistake of bringing this question to my local parenting group and had the experience that I always have when bringing a question to a local parenting group.

0:02:12 Thomas: Yeah Do you like a random sampling? Well, not quite random but, like, yeah, a normie sampling of people we know how that goes lately. Interesting.

0:02:46 Eli: Yes. Truly. Of my fellow Americans. Yes, exactly. And I thought I'd talk to you about it. So, I may have mentioned this on the air or may I have not. But, you know, Max is four. And he's going through a snatching phase. Is, he's just like taking things he wants. Right? Sees a kid playing with a toy. He goes over to try to take the toy. Sees the kid doing a thing. We're holding our thing, he wants it, just goes over and tries to take it out of our hand.

So I did some reading of it online, and one of the explanations that really registered with me is that, hey, toddlers tend to do this because we do it to them, right? We tend to just snatch things out of their hand when we're done with them playing with a toy and it's time to go, we just take the thing out of Their Hand. When we want them to not do a thing, we take the Thing out of Our Hand.

We do what we want to do, right? Because they're kids and we know that we love them and we want them to be happy, and so we're only doing it in sort of a must situation. But what they learn is, like, if someone has something in their hand, i.e. me, the center of the universe, sometimes people just come by and take it. So if

0:03:48 Eli: That's how we communicate wanting things out of other people's hands, I'm allowed to do it. So I am trying to learn not to snatch things out of Max's hands, because the minute I read that, I realized, holy shit, I snatch everything out of of this poor fucking kid's hands, right?

0:03:47 Thomas: Yeah Yeah Especially when communication can be an issue. They often you just have to shortcut, cut you know because

0:04:04 Eli: -hmm Yeah when he is done with a toy, when he, when I need him to finish doing a thing

0:04:09 Tom: Wow. Or if you just want to play with that toy, that's fine.

0:04:10 Eli: Right if I, it's my turn with the Nintendo Switch. Yeah, exactly. There's all sorts of reasons why I tend to do it, and we practice taking turns and stuff, and so that's a little bit better, and that and that has also really helped, I will point out. But yeah, it, that tends to be the case. Uh, I noticed that, but it's it's still really a habit, it, and I wanted to know some tips for navigating the situations that are tricky, right? So like when he's stuck, we got to go somewhere and he's using the object in his hands to stall, right? Uh, he has a thing and I'm worried he's gonna break it and it's not an emergency, but I do want, like, I just thought, you know what, I'm

0:04:11 Tom: Yeah, right. Yeah.

0:04:12 Thomas: My turn. Yeah.

0:04:47 Thomas: Uh

0:04:48 Eli: Gonna reach out to my feral fellow parentals

0:04:50 Tom: Think you were right with Feral. Yeah. I think that was right on. I think I was right.

0:04:51 Eli: Feral, my feral parentals Yeah No it's a Freudian

0:04:55 Tom: I

0:04:55 Eli: Slip and get some advice. And my friends, I was met with the craziest, most batshit series of responses I can possibly describe to you. So before I get to the batshit responses, which I think we'll all enjoy, uh, you dealt with this at all? Did you have to figure out not snatching things from your kids' hands, like, like, how did that work? I assume you still don't have to snatch things from your kids' hands, Tom. Tom,

0:05:16 Thomas: I don't You know I

0:05:20 Tom: Think it was right, right on? To now Yeah, yes.

0:05:21 Eli: Yeah, exactly.

0:05:22 Thomas: Yeah, I, I'm trying to, I'm looking within, I'm gonna notice one of those things now. I'll notice it like you said, Eli, but I don't, I I snatched things out of their hands that much, I think. That I try to be pretty, you know, and it helps that they're a little older, like as they're as they're younger it's harder now. Remy does, I just have to bring this up, semi I related, he is taken to doing the funniest thing in the world, which is, you know, I've talked about how long he just, he going back forever, as soon as he could walk and crawl or even crawl and reach food in the pantry, he just grabs whatever and comes and brings it to us and tells us he wants it.

He grabbed a thing of polenta once and insisted that we did Now he Yeah It's just No He just, we're just like, dude, that's not even, you can't eat that. Like, he just grabbed whatever whatever now he's smarter. He knows what's food and what's not, so now he takes something. We'll be like, let's say we're watching TV, he'll go grab like, like a fruit snacks or something. He'll bring it over and go, and he'll rub his tummy, because that means he wants to eat it. And then if we say no

0:05:59 Tom: All right I love that. That's great. Did you make him polenta? I like you should have made him polinta I

0:06:21 Eli: Adorable.

0:06:21 Thomas: If we stay just

0:06:22 Eli: Adorable, by

0:06:22 Tom: Do the same thing I do this same thing, like I get

0:06:22 Eli: The way.

0:06:24 Thomas: Wait, if we saying no, he chucks it at us and leaves. It'll literally just be like, things of, I didn't notice at first that he just throws it, and they'll be just, just things of food everywhere that we said no. And he just throws, he's just like rage quits. He throws it and leaves. And now I've, now that I've noticed it, I'm like, not letting him do it, but Jesus fucking Christ, what a spoiled.

0:06:24 Tom: Yeah

0:06:28 Eli: Amazing.

0:06:45 Eli: He comes over to you with a crystal flute of champagne and you're like, um, ah, here's the thing. I mean, yeah.

0:06:50 Thomas: Yes, you can have it. Chucks it, just throws. He throws at the kids too. And we're like, dude, you cant do that, man. Man.

0:06:56 Tom: God, it's been a minute since my kids were like toddler little and I don't, I hate this because I usually feel like I have a good memory of this, but I don't remember the snatching stuff as much. I still, you know, but now he packs a wallop, so it's different.

0:07:07 Thomas: Yeah.

0:07:10 Eli: Yours go through a hitting phase and did it ever end, Tom? Speaking of, on a slightly unrelated note, did

0:07:19 Tom: You know yeah Yeah, he's claw clubs you into the ground like fucking like you know that like just hammers you in like a tent stake into the dirt. Just that's rough.

0:07:18 Eli: No, he's a lot bigger now. Bam Bam? Yeah. Fan! Fan! Fan! Yeah.

0:07:19 Thomas: Jesus. Yeah, yeah.

0:07:30 Thomas: My my kids all beat the shit out of

0:07:32 Tom: It's

0:07:32 Thomas: Each other. It's it's so frustrating. Good They're at school. Did I tell you? I'm so sorry. I'm not hijacking your episode. This is but Eli did. This is fucking. Oh, my God. We Eli did a bit. Everybody. Actually, I'm realizing this might have been a prank as as I're about to say what I'm about to say. This may have been an elaborate Eli prank.

0:07:33 Eli: Max No, get in there! Yeah.

0:07:49 Eli: Sounds like it.

0:07:49 Thomas: Had the, you know, when they're in school, you get the parent-teacher conference. When they're in daycare or whatever, you get kind of, you know, a version of that that's like, got the little progress and whatever it's really, it's really sweet, it's very nice. The other day we do Remy's and like, he's a fucking model prisoner. He the best, he's interested in everything, he's polite, he's great with the other kids, he loves reading time, and we're like, what? And then Lydia's like, well, Well, yeah, but does he like, like he screams when, when he, and he's, they're like screams. I'm not even joking. It was like, Eli wrote a bit. They're like, scream. We've never, he screams. We've Never.

0:07:58 Eli: Right, yeah. Yeah.

0:08:05 Tom: Fucking

0:08:24 Thomas: What do you mean? He screams.

0:08:24 Eli: Mean when he hurts himself, right?

0:08:26 Tom: That's because kids are little liars. Like, they are little shit liars that they get to school and all of a sudden they can remember where to put their backpack and they can remember to like take their shit. They come home and like everything has to get flung with centrifugal force off their bodies just randomly. Yeah, no, they're little shit liers.

0:08:35 Eli: Oh yeah, big time. Yeah.

0:08:46 Tom: I

0:08:40 Thomas: Literally, they, Like, they didn't believe that he screamed. Like, they're like, no, he never screams. He's at fun. And, and I've kind of mentioned it before that I think the problem is he's bored at at home and like when he's at school, but like the amount that they emphasized it was just, it was Eli writing a skit. It was like, oh yeah, so it's us being like, God, he's really tough, sorry. God, what? He's the best. He's our best kid. He's literally the best kid in the daycare. We love him. We want everyone to be Remy and we're just like what the fuck dude yeah

0:09:08 Tom: Love that for him I love That for everybody actually, that's great

0:09:09 Eli: The button on that sketch is that you guys walk out the door and then it pans up and it's like, so -and -so school for the deaf. Right. And just nobody can hear.

0:09:20 Thomas: Or something, I don't know. Yeah, it's God, it's it's so, anyway, every phase that I think Remy's going through that's like the end of the the world, apparently at school 100% fine, not a problem, not an issue, it's just at home.

0:09:21 Tom: That's

0:09:21 Eli: Yeah, yeah. We had a hitting phase exact, pretty much just like this one a few months ago and it was rough. And then we got over it and I was like, oh my God, yes, it ended, because that fucking sucked. And the last week in 10 days it is just back in full force and I don't know what it is, like, I do not know why it's happening, and he just, he just fucking hits and he does the laughing hitting us too, like he's not mad does the laughter hitting us and I look, I have a lot of anger and I have to not only do I have to not be angry, I have have to switch over to like calm, which is fucking

0:09:54 Thomas: Oh yeah it's really hard yeah

0:09:54 Tom: Good that's great that's oh fun

0:10:05 Thomas: And in two in tenths of a second, it's impossible it's possible, he says as he hits the mic, yeah

0:10:06 Eli: Yeah and what I have is control, right? Like, I am incredibly proud of the fact that I have never a right, that I have never and will never lay a hand on my son, but like that takes effort, right? When he punches me in the face unexpectedly, my body's like, get him yeah exactly yeah get him

0:10:24 Tom: Absolutely absolutely it's

0:10:22 Thomas: You have fast twitch reactions yeah there's never a, there's ever a time that you or I are ever going to hit or anything like that, but, but we may take accidental defensive action that is alarming to them. That's happened to me where I was like, oh, like you do something, just flinch because somebody's hitting you in the face, you know, and you're like, Oh shit. I like in, in the action of quickly putting someone down or like turning someone quickly. I'm like, Ooh, that was, that was a little, but like, it's, I hope, I hope unless we're all about to get canceled, Eli, I hope we, can give, especially dads who can give ourselves some, of a grace on this, because I think it's really hard to do everything exactly perfectly in one one hundredth of a second, like I did you

0:10:26 Eli: Mm -hmm mm -hm, yeah oh God tell

0:11:02 Thomas: Can't even blame yourself like it's impossible

0:11:02 Eli: Tell me about it yeah No, I mean, I so yeah, I'm trying to stay calm and stay cool in those situations, but yeah, it's the same as school there, they, you know, they love him, he's an angel. I do think he acts out occasionally. His teacher, preschool was like, yeah, we saw a little hitting when the hitting happened last year, but yeah, we're just, we're juste waiting this phase out. I'm really hoping it ends soon because, man, it's just, it's so tough, because like I love him and, and we're having such a sweet time, and it is usually because we're going from one thing that he loves and makes him happy to another thing he loves and makes them happy and he just doesn't want to, and like it's just like, I hold him very gently, I am very physically affectionate, which I have learned means opening myself up to getting fucking clocked in the eye or here, right?

0:11:11 Thomas: Yep yep yep yeah oh

0:11:32 Tom: A transition problem yeah yeah

0:11:51 Eli: Anger that goes through me when I, I realize I am being careful so as not to be hit, let alone the anger that goes through me when he hits Anna, right? Because that's the other thing too is when he hits and like if he's pulling her hair and I have to be like, all right, nervous system, he's hurting your wife, but you can't squeeze his hand so hard it makes juice out of either side of your hand, you have to gently take his hand hand off your wife's hair, and I, again, I have managed it, but yeah, it's fucking tough point

0:11:51 Tom: Yeah

0:12:00 Thomas: Yep yep nope yep so what

0:12:16 Tom: So I know we're going to talk about the advice for the, uh, from your parenting group. I did have a piece of advice that I don't know if you've already tried if it's like, if, if the snatching thing, I'm talking about the sn-matching, I have no idea how to fix the hitting problem, I think that, I think he's just fucking age out of that shit for the most part. I, I know that that sucks, but I think a lot of that is just aging out and the constant reinforcement but for

0:12:28 Eli: No God, yeah yeah yep

0:12:37 Thomas: Yeah and communication is part of it too like when they can express themselves with words, it gets better, yeah

0:12:44 Eli: Yep

0:12:42 Tom: Right but for the snatched thing, um, order to sort of like prevent you from having to snatch things from them, you might want to have, like, and I feel like this, like training a dog again, but you might want to have, if it's something you want to be conscious of, something to trade with him. So like, have something in your pocket. Yeah, let's see how, exactly. Yeah you know anything from the commissary, like any yeah, yeah, like a little piece of candy or like a race car or something, you know, that like you can do a trade with so that you're not just, so you can take what needs to be taken, but you're not creating this like habit of like, like, I just get to take your shit and that's how it works now. Like, a trade might be good

0:13:01 Thomas: Cigarettes yeah a knife shiv yeah

0:13:04 Eli: Ramen noodles from the, yeah exactly yeah I love that, I love it yeah

0:13:27 Tom: I have no idea if that would work, but it's the first thing that occurs to me

0:13:29 Eli: Give it a shot. And honestly, Thomas, you're thinking about the communication too, because a lot of the time with the hitting and the snatching. It comes with, I'm like, Hey buddy, it's time to put that away. And he's like, no. And I'm like, okay, well it does need to be put away. We've, communicated to the full extent that we need to.

0:13:30 Tom: Right

0:13:42 Thomas: Yeah no I mean yeah I meant, I meant they'll stop hitting others when they can say like, yeah.

0:13:45 Eli: And Oh yeah, no, that's true. But of I, the things that I have found myself saying is, Hey, I don't want to take that out of your hand, but right. I'm clarifying to him what's going on. Like, Hey this is the situation, I need that, but I don't want to take it out of your hand, and it has worked occasionally. Um, let's hear what this Facebook group had to say. So I, I wrote down this

0:13:55 Thomas: Yeah.

0:13:58 Tom: Yeah who quick who's, who is your Facebook, is this like a group of people you know, or is this like a just an online parenting group you joined? I, because I think that sets the stage here okay

0:14:15 Eli: There's an online parenting group, the, like, local moms and dads group that I'm in. Um, one is the, one of the rare ones I haven't been kicked out of, yeah so Uh, first comment, and I love this one so fucking Sorry, but if my kid has a butcher knife and is about to stab his brother, I don't have time for please and thank you. Some of us have more than one kid and a lot more problems to deal with than how we ask our kids to give up things.

0:14:21 Tom: I'm already so afraid for you yeah what

0:14:24 Thomas: Oh,

0:14:33 Tom: The fuck what is happening wow

0:14:35 Thomas: Come on. Shut the fuck up. Oh my God, dude. Here's

0:14:48 Tom: Okay, well you know what, 10 for that answer, asked and answered, end of the show, such a good answer

0:14:50 Thomas: Here's What Sucks About This. Most things on the internet that suck, most things on the internet that suck, we can be like, probably fake, probably a bot, probably Russian. Question this, I know it's real. That's What sucks about this, this is how stupid we are, and this is why we deserve Trump. This are presenting an obviously real problem that you have, which is a thing you're trying to do, and someone has to take in this is the reactionary victim psychology of our entire, you know, how they used to say the left was victims? They are 100 incorrect. All reactionary society is all at how instantly this person was making themselves a victim of a fake hypothetical that they made up related to a question you asked. I'm sorry, I'm not, what? No one's, I don't, no one knows who you are. You did, I miss it, was this guy in on the meeting that you were having at the school.

0:15:00 Eli: Yep.

0:15:37 Thomas: Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah.

0:15:39 Tom: We Circle back too to, why are you just parenting with knives laying around in this hypothetically I'm sorry, but if my kid has a flamethrower with a finger on the button of the nuclear missile launch

0:15:44 Eli: On the You just butcher knives at child level.

0:15:50 Thomas: I'm pretty sure Eli will agree with that, like Yeah, if he has a weapon and like

0:15:54 Tom: Right. Everybody

0:15:54 Eli: Yeah. Obvious And I wrote in my post, I was like, I'm obviously not talking about emergency situations, so maybe she doesn't think that's an emergency situation all

0:16:00 Thomas: Even before that was said Yeah. Oh

0:16:00 Tom: Defines emergency a little differently, Eli, what the fucking shit

0:16:05 Eli: Right, I want to read you the second comment because it's such a perfect contract, I, I laughed out loud and it was like, oh What's funny, I was the worst people. So first comment, butcher knives. Second comment, not a problem with my kid. So

0:16:11 Thomas: My god Helpful Helpful

0:16:20 Tom: God, I fucking love when people chime in to be like, nothing to add here, you're just don't chime in if you don't have a chime

0:16:22 Thomas: God You're in a parenting group, what is, in retrospect how did Trump not win more, you know like, in retrospect it's actually a testament to the ingenious campaign that was run, that he didn't get every vote in the entire nation because we're fucking idiots we're so dumb Oh I never want you to stop, I want all of them. Oh

0:16:35 Tom: It's fucking Unbelievable. Oh What

0:16:31 Eli: Fucking good more Yes. Exactly. How was it not universal? Okay. Have to read this answer now I need to emphasize I need to emphasize that I am reading this word for word. I know you're gonna sit there and you're gonna think, okay, Eli, you're making up a fun joke for your little podcast. I'm glad you're enjoying it, hearing your fictional thing. This is why we need to bring back corporal punishment, period.

0:16:58 Thomas: Come on.

0:16:58 Eli: New

0:16:59 Thomas: Shut the fuck up. Yeah.

0:17:00 Tom: What

0:17:02 Eli: Paragraph. When I was growing up, we learned things the hard way, and sometimes the hard way meant the back of my dad's hand or even his belt. Sorry, but that's just the real world, and the real word has real consequences. The problem is, I can't get over this. The problem, you're treating your kid like an equal. They're not an equal, they are your subject and you are their ruler. And then they included a Bible quote

0:17:26 Tom: This is Eli made this up. You have if you didn't make this up If

0:17:31 Eli: This is What I said I

0:17:30 Thomas: What What What group did you join, come on

0:17:32 Eli: Said look

0:17:33 Tom: You Didn't make this up. I'm not living in this world anymore.

0:17:36 Eli: Parents for Corporal Punishment is a really good group, most of the time I don't know why I finally had this reaction I laughed so hard, and I also loved the, I love this, which is the comment underneath that, because it's a pretty liberal parent group. Comment underneath that not from me is, are you even a parent? And then the comment from the original commenter is, grandparent, I raised my kids right and now I don't have to deal with them anymore, laughy face. Why are you in the parenting group what's happening

0:17:39 Thomas: Yeah I was gonna say Oh

0:17:42 Tom: Sure, yeah, sounds like it. But

0:18:09 Thomas: Boy maybe

0:18:05 Tom: Then why am I on this group? Why do I, why did you join this group?! Why would I have done any of the things that I do?! Your

0:18:13 Thomas: It is fake, I'm, never mind, we gotta, it's a comfort, it's Russians, it's the only thing that comforts my mind. Why are people like this just

0:18:13 Eli: Yeah. The robot bots are just filling in

0:18:21 Thomas: Fucking

0:18:21 Tom: Kid is your subject. I like that then your home is like a fiefdom.

0:18:24 Eli: Kid is your subject and you are their ruler

0:18:26 Tom: This is very medieval.

0:18:22 Thomas: A And Yeah, and now they never talk to me anymore, so I don't have to Yeah. Unreal.

0:18:31 Tom: Yeah.

0:18:31 Eli: Dear Dennis Prager, I'm including this Facebook thread as evidence that my kids I

0:18:35 Tom: Holy fuck. Holy. Holy, do you, like, is this a group that you've gone to for advice in the past?

0:18:41 Eli: Swear I found my doctor, my barber, and a bunch of stuff and

0:18:44 Tom: And have you ever

0:18:45 Thomas: The One that gave you a third ball or

0:18:45 Tom: Taken the advice or is like, how would Max still be alive if you've taken any of this advice?

0:18:48 Eli: I I will admit this I have

0:18:47 Thomas: Yeah Yeah and

0:18:50 Eli: Never asked for parenting advice before. I have asked for recommendations, right? Who's a good doctor? Where's a good swimwear? Where can I buy a cheesecake

0:18:58 Thomas: No one was like this doctor will beat your son. Then none of them said that

0:18:59 Eli: Right?

0:19:01 Tom: I'm not sure I would go to their doctor. That's fair. Well, this guy doesn't give you their kids, those new fangled vaccinations.

0:19:01 Thomas: Yeah Yeah

0:19:02 Eli: Yeah. Exactly. Vaccines. You've heard so much about, uh I, there will say, because I'm also on a, I'm on a list serve, which is fucking weird, but it's It's great.

0:19:08 Tom: Holy shit.

0:19:08 Thomas: Whoa that still

0:19:14 Tom: Oh, I'm sorry. Did our podcast go back in time? Everybody check your clocks. If we went 88 miles an hour in the last few minutes.

0:19:14 Thomas: Exists Yeah

0:19:17 Eli: I'm Right. We all receive a mimeograph, but I'm not a list server, right, which is just like a big, big CC all email chain, you know, hell, uh that we're all on, and it's for parents of autistic kids, and there's one lady on there who's like, the vaccines I gave my kid gave it autism and so she just replies to everything on the list serve with, I regret vaccinating my child. She just does her she just does her pitch once again, just every single time, and every single type, people are like, shut up, Suzanne. It's the best. Um, but yeah, so that was my experience of uh, asking my fellow parents for advice, and uh, there you have it, right?

0:19:26 Thomas: Yeah Oh God it's forever Wow Jesus Yeah

0:19:55 Tom: Yeah, I fuck shit. Those groups just sound that the worst places for actual advice. And that's so depressing. Cause like actually, you know, outsourcing and like crowdsourcing is oftentimes like it aggregates to good advice. Like that is oftentimes a true thing. It's just that like, there's so much noise, like nonsense in there and then the emotionality of parenting seems like it would make it just a million times worse. Like, what I mean is, like, if you outsource or crowdsource, like, you know, what is the state capital of Idaho, you're very likely to get a good answer statistically, right? Like you're just like Okay there, right but like, if it's, like, if it's this other Yeah it is exactly the answer but like, if this other stuff I'd aware, no, we reject the premise, but like, it fits this other, their stuff. It seems like, it seems like it tends to travel in the opposite direction, where just like the unhinged lunatics pop up and are just like, well, here's my take, I actually wanted to chime in to say I have no take, that's so

0:20:31 Thomas: No one cares that's the answer. Yeah who gives a shit the top upvoted answer who fucking cares

0:20:50 Eli: I was sitting here this morning refreshing this page, hoping to tell someone to hit their kid, and I'll tell you, the four posts before yours, they were about where to find a child-friendly dentist, and I couldn't really find a way to work it in. So now I can get back to work, where

0:21:11 Tom: Other people ask for. I'm cute now. I'm curious what your experience is as a sort of advice giver was

0:21:15 Thomas: Do you tell other people to hit their kids, or what do you do pay it forward word

0:21:18 Eli: The the key to this group that I like. Like, is, it's, all the posts are anonymous, right? Some of the comments are anonymous.

0:21:19 Thomas: Yeah

0:21:24 Tom: Well that's when you get the best people is when things are anonymous that's, that's even better

0:21:26 Thomas: Well

0:21:27 Eli: So for me, right, I kind of need that because if I'm ever going through something that I can't share publicly, which luckily hasn't happened, but if I remember going through something I can share publicly, that is a space I've found where, like, someone won't coincidentally run into my name and be like, Oh, that's the guy on the podcast. I like screenshot, you know? So the advantage, the reason I've been in an anonymous space is because I can't be in a non -anonymous space. Yeah, that's, been useful. Yeah,

0:21:28 Tom: Right?

0:21:47 Tom: Do you give advice on this channel like, do you Yeah Yeah. Right. Is the advice always this fucking brutal? I, there's a, there's a sense that, I think, like, what you're getting to, that, that is out there, which is the excuse to tell America to toughen up, right? There's that group of people, like, that want to use any excuse. It doesn't even matter. I don't think what the advice question is. The answer is always going to be some version of "the kids these days are soft."

0:21:56 Eli: Yeah, all the time.

0:22:20 Eli: Yeah.

0:22:20 Thomas: I can't get over how perfectly, I'm sorry, uh, you guys tell me, tell me shut up if, if this is too much, but I can't get over how perfectly this reflects politics. You have the person who's the natural inborn authoritarian, and they're like, they're gonna go fash because they're fash. Then you have the person who's easily activated their reactionary thing, where anything that even your suggestion of you might have to change your behavior as a parent, not, not related to them, not their kid, not their situation, you're not even talking about anyone else. You're talking about a thing you described, a time, an event where you were thinking about changing your behavior. And that's such a threat to our fragile fucking little minds that we have in this country that instantly they're reacting as though you're correcting their parenting and coming up with an insane hypothetical that might as well be about immigrants eating pets.

0:23:04 Eli: Right. Yeah.

0:23:09 Thomas: Like captured all of it. It's amazing. And then the person who's like Like my kid doesn't do that. That's the third party voter. You've got everybody.

0:23:14 Eli: Yeah, they're just like, yeah I'm not playing.

0:23:16 Thomas: You've Got Everybody.

0:23:17 Eli: Was that the election? Was there a kid? It, I didn't notice. I'm just kidding, I noticed. I, I'm a bad person. And

0:23:18 Thomas: Yeah.

0:23:22 Tom: You know You hit on something too, Thomas, that I want to, like, seize on, that I think between. So there's a non-answer, which you could just be like, yeah, all right, you just, what was that? And then the other two, I think they have, like, an undercurrent though that is the same undercurrent, which is I should never have to change in order to accommodate you. That's the same undercurrent in both answers, right? Like, both of them are suggesting the same thing from a, a different angle, and that's, that's a huge element of parenting, which is like, all right, like, I'm gonna have this kid, and this kid is going to come into my house and adapt to me and my rules, and I am not gonna have to change and my needs Yeah, yeah, and I'm not gonna have to adjust or change. Yeah.

0:23:43 Thomas: Yep.

0:24:04 Eli: My needs Right. Because I think the opposite of that sort of authoritarian that comes in that first comment is the victim mindset, which I see really commonly. It's like, I'm already so overworked and so over, like, how dare you make me think about something I might be doing right.

0:24:15 Thomas: Yeah. It activates that defensiveness where it's like, And what's amazing is, like, again, even people in unrelated conversations, it's, like, how anytime we just bring up vegetarianism or veganism, there's people who are just think that we're, we're them when we're not, like it's just, yeah doesn't

0:24:24 Eli: Right.

0:24:36 Eli: Or judging them. Right, they create a judgment in themselves. Yeah.

0:24:39 Thomas: Exist Yeah.

0:24:39 Eli: Yeah, I

0:24:40 Tom: They create a judgment so they can respond to it and feel aggrieved from it. But I think, like, the, the parenting thing, like, sort of need to not change, like, our need, I, I just want to, like, tell, like, a quick personal anecdote on that.

0:24:53 Thomas: No.

0:24:54 Tom: Had no No.

0:24:53 Eli: Hate change, and I refuse

0:24:55 Tom: I you know, I had an interesting experience as a stepdad, right? Where, so eight, seven years ago when Hayley moved here and she brought Donovan and brought Aislan, and we were going to create this brand new household, which was going to go from not existing to existing overnight. And I was going have in my home, I was going to have, you, this woman who I was going to immediately, I had not lived with. And then boom, we're just, we are living together.

And then also here's these two kids and now I'm their stepdad and it's, and I'm going to be very much the odd man out in that household, right? Because there's already an established dynamic between Haley and Aislinn and Donovan. And so I knew going into this that if anyone was going to have to change, it was going to be me. Because there is no way for me to change three people to match my style, my habits, my routines.

That's just not how it's going to work. When sort of a, a parent from day one with biological parents, you grow into them, they grow into you, it's an organic sort of process that takes place over time. When you begin step parenting, if you do it the way we did it, because Hayley and I were long distance, so there wasn't an option other than just flip a switch parenting, you

0:24:55 Eli: To do it.

0:26:12 Eli: Right.

0:26:13 Tom: Know, just like overnight. Now here they are, um, I had, like, this really like, like, like, intentional, reflexive, reflective moment where I was going to be like, all right, I'm either going to be the odd man out in my own house or I'm going to have to feel out the rhythm, the vibe, you know, the, the style, the parenting, the needs, all of this.

0:26:32 Tom: And I'm gonna have to adjust into that and, and find my way through that because they can't ask all of these people to adjust to me. That's not fair. And there's a huge sort of like pushback in parenting in general, which is kids always have to adapt to you. And that's fucking insane, because I can tell you from experience that you can adapt to your kids. I did it. I adapted to an entirely different structure and rhythm and vibe and style and, you know, people that just overnight were living with me and that I was responsible for. You can fucking do it, and everything works out great. Everything can work out great, at least. But like, there's this opposite notion where it's like, yeah, kid's job is to fucking adapt to you. Like, I don't know, man, like, I adapted to a lot of shit growing up, and I don't think it always did me all the favors in the world.

0:26:32 Eli: The Crepes Yeah. Right.

0:27:22 Thomas: Are we supposed to

0:27:24 Tom: Do You know what I mean though?

0:27:24 Thomas: Pretend, no

0:27:26 Eli: The takes his headphones out, he gets it. My work here is done. No.

0:27:30 Tom: Does that make sense though? Yeah.

0:27:35 Eli: I get it, I understand, and I, as again, my parents absolutely slaughtered it. I'm very, very, very happy with how my parents raised me, but there was an expectation set that in a lot of ways wasn't healthy. Right. And there were a lot of things that my parents were capable of doing because they were fully emotionally developed adults that was expected of me as a really young kid. Uh, and so I, I didn't learn to control those emotions super well. I learned to be ashamed of them. Right? So I think that's, that's a really important thing, right?

0:28:06 Thomas: Interesting.

0:28:06 Eli: How do you make And it's something that I also too, because my life is very fixed. My life is very firm, because right? I like the food I like. I like the thing I like, and it's because we work very hard, and it's because I work a lot, right, and So I made the choice not to go to an office 9-5, and I know we've talked about this off air, but I make a choice not to go to an office nine to five so that if Max needs something, wants me to read him a story, I can stop doing my work and do that for him.

Now that means that it's a lot harder to do my work and get my work done, but I've tried to incorporate that flexibility into my life so that I get to be a part of his life and not just someone he sees when he wakes up first thing in the morning, right? Because when my dad was working full-time, especially when he was commuting two and a half hours a day after his business had closed, like, I didn't see a lot of my dad. I really missed my dad and I missed that relationship with him that I'd gotten to have when he was working closer to home.

Um, it also means that I have to check in with my own habits when it comes to my comforts, right? When it comes to like how noisy I want things to be when I, uh, when it comes to like how distracted I let my attention get, how my relaxation works, right. One of the big issues that I, that, that I, I am really working on is like, I'll work all day.

Then I'll watch Max for a little bit and it sort of becomes a man cave moment. Now I don't actually go to a man cave, obviously, but like, I'll be like, okay, I'm going to play some video games or I'm going to watch a thing or I'm going to read a thing. And then Max needs my attention. But because my brain is in, well, I already

0:28:19 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:29:31 Eli: Did my job mode, right? I have had to learn to check that in myself and be like Nope, you're not off, right. You're off at eight when he falls asleep. That's when you can start being off until then you got to continue to be participatory or you've got to leave the space, right, which is something that I've also done was like, when I'm really exhausted, when I really need a break, I'll be like, Hey, I'm going to take 15 downstairs or I'll take 15 upstairs. Right. And actually do that set a timer, but like that needs to be a full-on break as opposed to trying to steal breaks in between breaths. Right. Which is my own thing. Does that make sense?

0:29:32 Thomas: Yeah.

0:29:40 Tom: Right.

0:30:02 Eli: Is that relevant at all? Or is that okay? Good.

0:30:04 Tom: Yeah. It does. I'm just thinking

0:30:02 Thomas: Tom

0:30:05 Tom: About, like, not stealing breaks in between breaths. That's a weird, that's the in-between breaths time is for Eli, obviously. That's a weird idea.

0:30:12 Eli: I Yeah.

0:30:14 Thomas: Gets a tiny amount of sleep in between every three, inhale, that's just a little teeny bit, Eli, which of this sage advice, did you take, oh,

0:30:18 Tom: Sleeping No.

0:30:24 Eli: No, I didn't.

0:30:26 Tom: Did you respond to any of these people on Facebook

0:30:28 Eli: No, no. I didn' t respond. Not interested.

0:30:29 Thomas: whatS the point, yeah no, What

0:30:30 Tom: Ah the point is the comedy, Thomas the

0:30:31 Thomas: Is this, 2016, what is this 2016 and we're trying to still affect people in the world

0:30:35 Tom: Point is the comedy

0:30:34 Eli: Yes, exactly. No. Invited them all over into Tom's podcast, Thomas's podcast. And we're going to, we're gonna release a nine-part debate where they defend the Disney crows. No, I was just like, okay, there it is. I don't know. The other thing is like, I don't know if you guys have this experience and maybe it's unrelated, but like, when a person does a bad thing online that I expect of the internet, I just completely shut down at this point in my life, right?

0:31:01 Eli: Like in person, I still like to think I'm very connected to the people around me And I do my best, but Like the minute someone online does a shitty, typically online thing, my body is so used to defending from that, it's just like, oh hey, don't worry, people are just being shitty on the internet again. And I literally, I think I deleted the post. I'm not even joking. I think. I was just like. Because it's what I'll do on Facebook. Like if I ever post a status. And people start to be shitty on it. I'm just like oh no. This isn't a thing that exists on the internet. You can't have it.

0:30:37 Thomas: Yeah mm Mm-hmm, yep, oh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:31:05 Tom: Right. Yeah.

0:31:27 Eli: Nobody gets this. I'm eating all the balloons. Or whatever the fuck. Like I'm like. I'm I'm still just not interested in it. And it's so funny. Because one of my buddy. Who's also in the group. Was like hey. I know you'd mentioned the snatching thing. Like is this you. And I was like yeah. And he's like oh. Sorry to hear it. Like let me know. No, my kids haven't gone through it, right? Very sweet. But like, it was also such a perfect illustration of the difference between relationships and the internet, right. Which is that like a friend thought maybe it was me and reached out to make sure I was okay. And the internet was like, I voted for George W. Bush for three reasons. Number one, I love war crimes.

0:31:30 Thomas: Yeah.

0:31:48 Thomas: What

0:32:00 Tom: Yeah. Man Yeah. So

0:32:04 Thomas: Are

0:32:06 Eli: Dear old dads.

0:32:08 Tom: Will you go back to that group for advice again? Was

0:32:10 Eli: So I mostly give advice on that group. This is the first time I've ever asked for it, but what I give advice on is like stuff that I feel really good about, like sometimes people are like, oh, my kid's into magic, and I'm like, uh, crack, crack, crack, crack, crack, uh, everyone back up, I'm ready to go. Or like local things, uh, you know, something someone asked, like a Jersey-based question I've used, or a New York-based question, and I've got answers to that, right? So like, you know, I try to answer those questions the best I could. I think I'm just going to stop reaching out for help.

0:32:40 Tom: There any good advice?

0:32:41 Eli: Nope.

0:32:41 Tom: So it was exclusively bad? Wow

0:32:44 Thomas: You gonna actually do then? What's, what's your plan?

0:32:46 Eli: Uh, I mean, we're just using MyWords more, just using MyWords and stopping. And cause what it was is I was going, Hey, Max, we got to, can I have that book? It's time to go potty here. Can I have the thing? Oh God, you don't even get me started on the fucking potty wars. They never end. The potty war is never end, I think.

0:32:48 Thomas: Oh

0:33:01 Eli: Can I tell you guys something?

0:33:01 Tom: And it just won't go when you suggest it?

0:33:03 Eli: She won't. Yeah, not on my chest, not in my face. She's very, very, she's a disagreeable woman, and I'm not afraid. Thank you Yes.

0:33:03 Tom: Huh? It's not very ggg of her, you know, like Yeah, just

0:33:11 Eli: Hey, it's my wife for once. Aren't we all having a good, we're all having good time because Lydia, she pees on my chest whenever I ask, and I say, a real trooper thank you. Maybe you heard that, maybe you didn't. I know it's the episode. Um, yeah, no, we're in the potty wars as well. I'll tell you guys a plan, though. I have a plan, and maybe this is a terrible plan. This is your chance to tell me a terrible plan. I think at Christmas, me and Ann have talked about this, I think it Christmas this year, when we have Christmas break, me and Anna are just gonna be like, all right, Max, you're a big boy now. You get to tell us when it's time to go potty. So Mommy

0:33:04 Thomas: Jesus Christ Okay

0:33:16 Tom: That is Nice of her

0:33:46 Eli: And I aren't gonna tell you when to go potty anymore. Uh

0:33:46 Tom: That's a great plan So If he tells you to go potty, are you gonna have to go go potting? I

0:33:52 Eli: No No, you tell us, you tell me when to potty, not us

0:33:55 Tom: Think he should tell you when to go party. I think that would be great if he's a

0:33:56 Thomas: Yeah.

0:33:58 Eli: Tom I am an IBS survivor. My son would have me shitting my pants 11 times a day. How dare you. But I think just being like, hey, and then you'll have an accident, if you have an axe, like, I think that's just what we got to do, and we'll do it over Christmas break, hoping that he gets it.

0:34:00 Thomas: Yeah. Really?

0:34:13 Tom: Right. Oh, a, I do think that that's a good plan. If he's he doesn't care. Amon didn't care either

0:34:15 Eli: He doesn't care when you have accidents now. I'll tell you that. No he'll be like oh, I, I, I have a little drop, is what I'll say, or he'll lie and say he pooped his pants, because we like when he poops his pants, which is very rare. We'll be like, hey buddy, don't worry about, like, that, because it's always been like tummy troubles or something. So now when he has like a p accident, he'll be like, I have poop accident, and I'm like, it's not a poop accident, man, you pissed yourself, and he's like I had poop accident.

0:34:37 Thomas: He's trying to get a lighter sentence.

0:34:38 Eli: Yes. Exactly, he's trying not to be registered as a repeat offender. Exactly. Yeah.

0:34:41 Thomas: Jeez Wow

0:34:44 Tom: Amon would shit himself, the fucking most unbelievably egregious, world-ending shit, and not care at all. He did not care it all. I'd be like, yeah, just, fuck, I'll wander around in my own dookie

0:34:52 Thomas: Did You Guys, do we did the potty training, did you do the Like not wearing anything potty train? Oh man

0:34:56 Tom: Forever Like Like

0:34:57 Eli: Yeah. We did it Yeah, that we went through the whole thing, it worked, and then it just, we just backfired. Maybe that's what we'll do. Maybe we'll put him bottomless for the first couple of days so that he'll just pee into, into the middle distance if, if he Uh, does. Can I

0:35:11 Tom: Just stand on a dock and contemplate the world, peeing. Yeah

0:35:16 Eli: Say, and I hope she doesn't mind me doxing this, but Haley actually gave me some of the best advice when it comes to the potty training, which made a huge difference when we were first doing it, which is, she was like, oh yeah, you got to make them clean it up when they have to clean it up. They don't want to do it anymore.

0:35:30 Thomas: Jesus

0:35:29 Tom: Did She tell you to rub their nose in it? Because I don't think that's, that's not recommended anymore, but we're

0:35:34 Eli: No, but I make him come and bring me the paper towels and stuff and all that. But yeah. He has to throw the underwear in the laundry, but yeah. So, for coming to the Eli is failing as a dad Podcast hour everybody Can't take things out of my son's hand Keeps pissing his pants and punching me in the face I

0:35:36 Tom: Yeah. I don't THINK SO AT ALL I DON'T THINK so at all I'm telling you, man, have like a pocket full of treats and you know, trade him a treat for the thing trade loved race cars, he loved like little Matchbox cars

0:35:53 Thomas: Pocket sand Oh

0:35:55 Eli: Pocket sand Perfect He loves shit, he loves all kinds of shit Loves matchbox cars

0:35:59 Tom: Yeah. Carry a red box car or two with you and just trade him, just always, just always trade him, because he'll be happy to trade for whatever he's not holding too

0:36:04 Eli: Yeah That sounds good I'm in, I'm fucking in Alright gentlemen, before we go. My wife calls me a sex machine. I mean, she said I was a tool, but I know what she meant. Okay.

0:36:27 Tom: No

0:36:29 Thomas: Boy. Yeah.

0:36:34 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILF, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC. Copyright 2022. All rights reserved.

0:37:14 Tom: I fuck shit. Those