DOD169: Putting the Man in Manners

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:28 Tom: To Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's pleased to thank you. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:38 Thomas: It's the pegging episode. No, I don't know.

0:00:42 Eli: Finally, it makes sense. It's all coming together. Hey.

0:00:43 Tom: Yeah. Was like on the Dad's page on Facebook, somebody said, "Hey, what do we have to have for the Patreon level for a pegging episode?" And I don't know what they want out of that pegging episode, but I can tell you they can't afford it.

0:00:58 Eli: Facebook enjoyer, which of the three of us do you think is gonna have anything to say about pay? If you want me to do a solo, you want, want my blog back, that, because that just sounds like you want me to do my blog bag that's

0:01:08 Thomas: Yeah, I do want your... Is this how we get your blog back?

0:01:10 Tom: Ha ha ha ha Ha

0:01:12 Eli: Right, Patreon. Oh, remember when, uh, your business got stolen and you had a nervous breakdown so Tom, read his blog, I'll read my pegging blog for our next vacation. It'll be the hey, everybody, come on down to Grandpa's Pegging House, okay?

0:01:12 Tom: Ha ha ha

0:01:16 Thomas: Uh-huh. I think that would sell. Really. Well, yeah.

0:01:29 Tom: Grandpa's Pegging House? Wait, what the fuck? We can't just let that go.

0:01:32 Eli: Guys, don't go to Grandpa can I

0:01:36 Tom: That can't just be a song.

0:01:32 Thomas: Yeah. I, I admit, I was kind of spacing on that as

0:01:38 Tom: You cannot have a song about Grandpa's Pegging House and then we transition our family show to anything else without at least calling that out.

0:01:38 Eli: Sound like the state you sound like the social services is what you sound like now. Tom, here's my, here's my quick pegging advice. All right, uh, the size of what you think it is, quadruple the lube of what you need. All right, half the size, quadrupole the lume.

0:01:48 Tom: Ha. Ha ha ha.

0:02:01 Thomas: Well. Just Fill your rectum with lube first, like in the entire and until until the lube is leaking out. Then you're ready to go. Yep.

0:02:01 Eli: Nope. I mean, maybe, I don't know if you're, yeah, you know, there's a, you can't do too much lube, get a lube proof situation going for your room if that's what you want to do. But guys, do you know the only thing worse than lubeless anal penetration? Why? It's the auto-ads. Yes. The uncareful lover of the podcasting world, auto ads bursting into your ears at a variety of volumes that we do not control or set. That I assure you, for if we did, you wouldn't hear them at all. But there is one way around, one simple trick that lets you hack the system over at patreon.com/dearolddads, where for as little as a dollar you'll get access to an extended commercial-free version of every single show. We got a little parenting story on the end of every episode. Last week Tom told us all about his Halloween, him Him and Eamon, braving the cold, collecting how much candy? Well, head over to patreon.com/dearolddads to find out. Patreon.com/dearolddads. Rip into it.

0:03:06 Thomas: Who

0:03:09 Tom: All. So I wanted to talk today, I'm curious where you guys are at with the idea of politeness and the value of teaching your kids politeness.

0:03:21 Eli: Not a fan.

0:03:22 Tom: So I, is something that's on my mind, um, it's on, on my mind as a parent all the time. Um, teaching kids politeness and, and why I think, personally, like, politeness is way undervalued. Um, time is going on, I think that there's a trend toward devaluing politeness, which I don't agree with. Um, curious what your thoughts there are, um, and what you're like as you're raising little people, particularly, like, because your kids are a lot younger than mine, like how you think about that, like what, what pieces are, are important, what pieces aren't important about being polite and teaching them to be polite.

0:03:18 Thomas: The fuck's asking Oh yeah. Oh,

0:03:55 Eli: Yeah, It's interesting because in some ways it's good and in some ways it's not right, because a lot of the things that were considered politeness when we were kids is just shittiness of adults.

0:03:55 Tom: Yeah.

0:04:08 Thomas: Yeah, like, let, let your uncle

0:04:11 Eli: Right, let your uncle hug you too long, let your grandma kiss you on the fucking lips with an open mouth if she wants to. The fucking call certain people "sir" thing. I don't know if you had one of those in your life. I had a friend who was a, was a sir guy, and he'd be like, "You can call me sir," and I was like, "Nah, it's 1980 something and he was like, "America," and I was like, "Yeah, I know, you should probably kill yourself in your garage," and he did, so win for everybody, right? So that's, that the bad part, right? And I think our generation is sort of largely reversed that trend, but there is a casualness with which children talk to each other and us now that we're not jerks anymore that I agree is not awesome. I, I teach at the high school level sometimes, and I never externalize this, I've never externalized it, but sometimes my kids walk in and they're like, what's up, dude? And I'm like, don't call me dude, you

0:04:11 Tom: Right.

0:04:18 Thomas: Gross. Oh yeah. Fuck that. Dear God.

0:05:07 Thomas: Yeah.

0:05:07 Eli: Little piece of shit. I 2016 while you were an infant for you to call me bro, okay?

0:05:07 Thomas: No. Yeah, yeah.

0:05:15 Eli: Just keep it fucking normal. So yeah, I do agree that there is a line there, and I'm interested to hear where yours is, Todd. Because my answer to that is sort of probably the laziest, which is I'm, like, I don't like it, but I'm probably wrong, so I'm just gonna go to just gonna eat these Skittles on this shelf that my tummy makes underneath my tits

0:05:16 Thomas: That's no

0:05:30 Tom: I

0:05:32 Thomas: Really. Oh wow. So I that's, I'm curious about that. Cause if I, right, I didn't know how I felt about this. I haven't really thought too much about it. Right. When you put me in that hypothetical, I am like, Oh, well, no, that's detention or whatever like that. You can't, you can't come in and say, call the teacher, "Hey, bro, what's up, dude?" Like, what? Come, that's not, no. Is that how it is now? Yeah.

0:05:39 Eli: Yeah.

0:05:57 Tom: Like, I'm, I'm years, I think, older than you guys, which is about 3,000 years in, in real terms, but, like, when I grew up, adults were always Mr. or Mrs. A hundred Mr. Mrs. And the last name, the full last name. Well, no, but that's so that nobody does that anymore.

0:06:08 Eli: Of course, I

0:06:06 Thomas: Yeah. That's current times What

0:06:11 Tom: Right.

0:06:11 Eli: Know, nobody does it anymore. It's fucking bizarre.

0:06:12 Thomas: Okay. Right.

0:06:14 Tom: So then there was like a, then there Was a trend toward Mr. Or Mrs. First name. That became a thing for about 35 seconds. And now everybody's what's up, dude. And there's none of the, any of that at all at all.

0:06:19 Thomas: Yeah.

0:06:26 Eli: Also, can I get on an old man horse for just a second to talk about the kids? So the kid prank, and I don't know if this was our prank, and I don't just remember, they make sex noises and sex jokes that I get because I'm an adult who's had sex, and they, like, think they're fooling me. One of the teachers in my school, I can't believe I had to have this fucking conversation, she was like, one of them called me a hock to a girl. What do we do, and I was like, they're fucking in trouble. They mean blowjob. I had tell a group of adults in button-down shirts they mean blojobs, and they were like, I don't understand.

0:06:51 Tom: Oh my God.

0:06:54 Thomas: Oh, my God. God.

0:07:02 Eli: And I was like, you know when you spit on a cock before you suck it? What are we doing? Jesus. We're all 40. We're all 40. We've at least seen someone spit or pretend. And that's the thing, right? Maybe this is just a teacher thing and I'm totally irrelevant, but we've all, like, we're all adults, adults, and teachers are like, I don't know, a blow job, you say, is that like a balloon? I'm like, relax.

0:07:10 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, what the fuck is that? Yeah, yeah.

0:07:27 Eli: The kids in my room last year, two years ago, they, they were going, ah, they were like making a sex noise to, like, make each other laugh. And I was like, hey, don't do that. And they were, like, why? What's wrong with it? And I was, like, it's a sex noise. And they were like, ah-ha-ha. And I was like, now you're in trouble. Like, that was it. It was that. That's all I had to do. So I was like, I know, what you're doing.

0:07:45 Tom: Right.

0:07:47 Eli: Stop. And they were, like. All right. He's cracked the code. There's a word. There's, a leak.

0:07:47 Thomas: Oh my god. I I'm realizing, I could, I can't be a teacher, or I need to have full authoritarian control over the punishment system of the, yeah, yeah

0:07:58 Eli: I'm ,a, pretty, cool teacher. But I also. Get the fuck out of my classroom right now. I'm like, I have no time for any of that.

0:08:06 Thomas: That's how I would be. Because like I can, first off I can stand any lying. So any pretending that you didn't, I'd be like, "No, fuck you and get out of my class for the rest of your life." Oh, why, why can't I do that? You don't fucking Yeah, I know, you know what you're talking about, you fucking asshole. What are you talking about? And just do this, and then they get away with it. Do We live in a society.

0:08:17 Tom: Yes.

0:08:24 Thomas: Still am I gonna

0:08:23 Eli: Yeah. They get

0:08:24 Tom: They get away with it

0:08:25 Thomas: Okay

0:08:25 Eli: Away with it all the time. And God, it's so funny.

0:08:27 Thomas: So I'm gonna be, be a fucking it's over for me.

0:08:28 Tom: It's it's fucking anarchy out there

0:08:31 Eli: When you said detention, I, it took all of me not to laugh because You can't just be like, you have detention anymore. You have to write a little book report on how they hurt your feelings by calling you a hawk to a girl. And then that goes to an underpaid Republican, Republican who wanted to be mayor but settled for principal, and they look at it with the glazed eyes of a man having an affair with a 19 year old, and they send it back to you being like, they can't get in trouble because their parents will call, and that is, I cannot emphasize enough, the end of it.

And I work in really nice schools. Let, have a friend who got punched in the face by a student this year at one of her schools, and, and she was like, "Cool, so that kid's, it's not my class anymore." And they were like, "Well, he's got to learn math." And she was like, "Maybe not here." And they were like, "No, that wouldn't be good for him to move. We would hate to disturb his learning process. So if he punches you in the face again, just let us know. And we will continue

0:08:35 Thomas: What?

0:09:01 Thomas: Wow.

0:09:24 Thomas: Nah,

0:09:24 Eli: To do nothing.

0:09:24 Thomas: I don't accept this. This can't be reality. I'm sorry. Subscribed to something called PragerU for some reason. My hand involuntarily did it. I don' t.

0:09:33 Eli: Wish, I wish these were extreme examples. My kids are good kids.

0:09:39 Tom: But like with little kids, are you guys teaching "please" and "thank you"? Okay, Thomas.

0:09:45 Thomas: Oh, I'm so far away from that mindset right now, just conversation-wise. I need to solve who I'm voting for next time out of this. I'm trying to strategize now in the teaching job I don't have and will never have. It's important to emphasize that. How I'm gonna manage this, like, I'm already like that's the mode I'm in, you know? And I'm wondering, can you just make their lives hell in ways that aren't disciplinary, you know? Like, can it be like, "Oh, you're gonna do that bullshit? Okay, well, here we're just fucking, you're just writing a book report today for no reason."

0:09:56 Eli: Yeah.

0:10:17 Tom: Terrifying thing about teaching, because I've done this in the high school level when I was doing the student teaching, because that's what I went to school to do. So, um, I did my student teaching, it was

0:10:25 Thomas: Yes. But that was two decades ago, Tom, at least.

0:10:27 Tom: Two decades ago, but I learned something really important.

0:10:28 Eli: Everyone Put away your T89 calculators, they're coming for your fluids. Hadn't

0:10:33 Tom: I I learned that you have literally no actual power or authority that matters. I there and like there was this moment where this kid, I was walking. I had a class with only four kids in it because they were taking a remedial English class. They had to pass this class in order to graduate. I had really wild kind doing my student teaching. So these four kids, they sat at four different ends of the classroom because they had some behavioral problems.

So they were posted up in the corners of this great big room. And we're going to the library, which I think we fucking called a learning center or some stupid bullshit. It was a library. So we're Going to the Library.

And this kid, he's a senior, he's a fucking senior, means he's a 17 year old kid, we're walking there's a total of five of us, me, four kids, we're walking, and he just decides that he's just not going to walk, he's going to stand in the hallway and not walk forward anymore, and then I, as the teacher, realized how incredibly stuck I was because I've got these other people that I want to take to the library to do the learning stuff I have planned. I can't grab this kid and throw him over my shoulder. There's not a fucking walkie talkie to call for backup or anything.

0:11:45 Eli: Been invented yet. Yeah.

0:11:46 Tom: I'm just stuck in the hallway with an asshole who is just like, I'm going to be disruptive. And that was the moment I realized that like, he does not care about the consequences because they're going to be post hoc consequences. So I was just like my brain melted and I died and I decided not to teach.

0:11:48 Eli: Mm. -hmm, can't

0:11:49 Thomas: The fuck oh I couldn't I couldn't do this how

0:12:04 Tom: I mean, it was a little more than that, but you can't touch these kids. You can't touch them.

0:12:09 Eli: Touch them.

0:12:04 Thomas: Did you not just push him out of the way? Oh. I disagree. I think you could actually. I think you could lightly push him out of the way, and then maybe there's consequences, but those are post -hoc. Anyway, whatever. You just said, yeah.

0:12:18 Tom: Yeah, right. So the kids, the problem is the kids have realized how powerless you are also. So actually does get to the to the real subject of politeness, because when you're teaching kids to be polite, light, especially as they get older. I think there's a really stupid idea that gets floated around. And I see it all the time in all kinds of different circles, right? Where people will be like, ah, that's just a social construct. And that's a way for people to be really dismissive of pretty much the most important things that you can possibly learn.

0:12:46 Eli: Everything's a social construct. Yeah.

0:12:48 Thomas: Money is a social construct. Yeah.

0:12:53 Tom: Yeah. Laws are a social concept, but you've heard the same thing, right. Everybody's heard it.

0:12:53 Eli: Everything's a social constraint. Oh.

0:12:54 Thomas: For Sure. Yeah.

0:12:57 Tom: Oh, that's just a, a social construct, and it's a way to be dismissive of the parts of the world you don't want to engage in, and that's stupid

0:12:57 Eli: Girl. Yeah.

0:12:58 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. While keeping the rest of the parts. Yeah.

0:13:05 Tom: Right? Well, keeping all the rest, but it's libertarianism. Right, it's like I'm going to drive on the roads, you know, that I don't, you know, it's all, it's fucking nonsense. And it's for small-minded dipshits, right? It's a stupid fucking thing to say, but you hear it all the time, you hear constantly, no,

0:13:16 Eli: Uh.

0:13:07 Thomas: Yep. Yep. For sure can. You verbally abuse the kids. Is that no? Fuck Fuck.

0:13:20 Tom: You can't do anything good. You can't. The thing is, like, to Eli's point to, sometimes you can't even discipline them meaningfully. But like when you're teaching kids, you have to teach them. You're trying to teach him the value of politeness without being able to sort of, not being able to, but without knowing that, like, punishments are not the answer. Right. So they have to understand a different set of reasons why politeness has value in their world and in their life. And if it's something that you value because you think that it will get them, like, I do, I value politeness a lot. I value manners and politeness a lot, it's really important. And have I good reasons why. But like, we're moving into a society, I think, more and more, that is moving further and further away from, like, really valuing those same things. Things, so I, I am curious, like, just with parents of little kids, please and thank you, I think, are the foundational elements for manners and politeness. Are those things you guys value and teach, right?

0:13:22 Eli: Yeah.

0:13:23 Thomas: I don't think I'm going to get over this.

0:14:20 Thomas: Yeah, I think so.

0:14:21 Eli: We do a lot of please and thank you. We do a lot of, um, Tiger is pretty fucking on the money as far as, like, what real manners are, because Daniel Targer fucking gets it right. So it's like, when you do something bad, it's like, you say you're sorry and then you ask, how can I help? Like, a lot of that emotional social learning shit is spot is on, and it's a lot of it is in little kid shit these days, which I really love. Um, has a really good sense of, like, empathy and doing things because you care about, like, politeness because you care about other people doing

0:14:48 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah not because it's like authoritarian rules.

0:14:51 Eli: Not because it's like the rules with

0:14:52 Thomas: Yeah

0:14:52 Tom: That's what I was trying to get at

0:14:52 Thomas: Exactly. Yeah

0:14:53 Eli: The capital R.

0:14:54 Thomas: For sure.

0:14:54 Eli: Yeah, and it fucking rules. I mean, all that, I hate to say this, is going to sound like such a lazy answer, but like smarter genuinely than me, and people who are genuinely empathic as opposed to just goblins who have been pointed in the right direction, like myself, have made content, and I just repeat what, what they say. Right?

0:14:54 Tom: Yeah Right

0:14:59 Thomas: TV will be my parent. Yeah

0:15:12 Eli: Because honestly, if you were like, all right, Eli, there's no Daniel Tiger, there's no Bluey, teach your kid politeness, I'd be like, if you eat food on others' plates, they cry, which can over salt the food. So obviously there are downsides. Daddy makes money being cruel. Don't do that unless you can make money, and then do that. Do it better than daddy. Maybe a little meaner. Daddy, Daddy feels like he's gotten soft last couple of years, right? So like, truly, like there are just other people guiding that. And my wife is, and I know, I feel like every time we ask this question, I'm always like, my wife isn't amazing, but my wife was amazing.

Like Anna is a really good bullshit detector because I'm like, I've rejected society in the cool way that white upper middle class men have decided to all universally do. But she's like an empath who cares about other people in the world.

So she is a really good informant on, like, what is real and what is bullshit, right? Because I'll be like, he, she should call everyone sir, and she's like, nah, it's not real. And I'm like, no pooping in his hands, and she was like, yep, that's a good one. All right, good, I got it.

0:15:31 Tom: I feel Feel, feel like when we were kids, manners were taught, like politeness and manners were taught as a way to sort of enforce a kind of hierarchy, like a social hierarchy, and that they were also taught as way to avoid making other people mad. And I do disagree with that stuff, right? I think that's the call your dad, sir, stuff. Like, that's not kind of what I'm talking about. I think that's how we grew up, though. I grew up with the idea that, like, you're polite and manners are important because if you don't behave in these ways, other people will get angry with you

0:16:32 Eli: Absolutely. Yeah. Right.

0:16:56 Eli: A full-grown man will yell at you who you I can't emphasize this enough, don't know like dad, right? Like, the first time that happened, I was like, oh, I don't call my parents sir. He yelled at me in his loud voice now here's the crazy thing, he survived that, because I tell you what. I tell YOU WHAT, if one of my dad friends ever yelled at Max for that, I'd be like, hey, we're gonna have a fist fight, do you want to pick a day and a time, but we could also do it right now here in your kitchen. I'm gonna eat your M&M's afterwards as a sort of victory dance.

0:16:58 Tom: Right. Yes. Right.

0:17:11 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:17:25 Thomas: Well, that's an interesting contradiction.

0:17:32 Eli: No.

0:17:33 Thomas: So, or potential, like, thing to look at, attention there, because I have the same thing. If anyone just yelled at my kid, I'd murder them, but like, is the issue though, like, is that maybe that's part of it? Like, if we're all just as it

0:17:44 Eli: Fine with them yelling at my kid when he does wrong stuff. Like, we're a dad, I have a group of dad friends, and our kids hang out all the time, and they now are like, hey, Max, buddy, and I'm like, fucking get in there, man, get him, get him in a headlock. He's got a weak left hook, but it's not the yelling, it's that an adult very clearly lost control of his temper at me, a child, over an invisible thing, over a thing he made up.

0:17:44 Thomas: Okay. Yeah.

0:18:08 Thomas: They want to be worshipped and called called a deity or whatever, that's nonsense. Yeah.

0:18:08 Eli: Right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

0:18:11 Tom: Yeah. I don't know, like, how I feel about the respect your elders sort of like principle I entirely dismiss it, um,

0:18:16 Thomas: No. That's, yeah. I don't care. I pretty much entirely dismiss it because they're all Trump voters now.

0:18:22 Tom: DON'T entirely dismiss it Yeah.

0:18:24 Thomas: Like, do you want do you wanna picture a boomer in a Trump shirt?

0:18:25 Eli: Maybe that phrase came out before the elders destroyed the housing market Well, it's actually, it's interesting because I notice a little of that in my students, right? Jokes aside, like, I am very good when a kid is going through something emotionally, because one, I'm at a drama school, so I fucking get it, kid. But also like, I, I am able to connect to them on ways that a lot of my colleagues are not. And so a couple of years ago, one of my students was was having a hard time. And I was like, hey, like, stay back a bit. Like, I want to talk to you. I'm a call ahead and make sure you don't get in trouble for being

0:18:28 Thomas: Yeah. Lost all dessert of respect. Yeah, and then

0:18:32 Tom: Right. You

0:19:01 Eli: Late to your next class. But like, let's talk because

0:19:01 Thomas: You flip the chair backwards and you sit in it. It super cool.

0:19:04 Eli: Was doing that thing that kids and Tom do where they're seething, but they don't think anyone can tell.

0:19:09 Tom: Can't tell that I'm mad Eli.

0:19:10 Eli: Right. Yeah, exactly. And like it was perfectly non-disruptive, but I could tell he's having a heart attack. Time we were talking about it anyway, I'm very clearly dealing with, like, I never want to diagnose a kid, but, like, early depressive thoughts, right? One of them was like, I'm not going to be able to afford a house when I grew up. And this was the first time that I was in the position, the official position of the elders. And so first thing I did, I was like, fuck, that's Reagan, not me. Okay, I was already destroyed when I got here, telling me, but the other thing is, like, and, and this is what, what I think is relevant to this, right, to this conversation about our relationships, is I think something that we can bring to this that our parents did not is empathy.

Is like, hey, I understand what it feels like to be angry at the older generation, and there are people in my generation who have treated you badly and betrayed you. Yeah, I see this with my college students a lot who have just finished four years of drama school and dealt with a bunch of egomaniacs and cult leaders, and then I treat them like human beings and they're like, oh shit, should my acting teachers have not had treating me this way? And I'm like, yeah, no, they shouldn't, but like, you have to meet them where they are and talk about that as colleagues without shitting on your colleagues, right? Because you can't turn around and be like, yeah, Mrs. Mahoney really is a piece of shit, isn't

0:19:35 Thomas: Yeah.

0:20:24 Eli: She Right, like you can, right?

0:20:23 Thomas: Once again, reasons I could not be a teacher, I guess, because I would do that.

0:20:26 Eli: Here's the thing. Here, come on down the hall with me, I'll tell him he's an asshole. Hey, man, you're an asshole, Mr. Mahoney. We were talking about what an asshole you, that, yeah.

0:20:30 Thomas: I would probably do that. Yeah, I want to get a teaching position now just so I can get fired. Can I do that? I think.

0:20:39 Tom: So So you can lose the job

0:20:41 Thomas: Yeah well, I'm going to test it. Social experiment.

0:20:41 Tom: Right away

0:20:40 Eli: Thomas, anything I can do any human can do that's you're

0:20:44 Thomas: Yeah social experiment. This will be important cultural work. Like, I'll be like, you know, I am going to go go undercover as a teacher and see if you can actually discipline these kids into not being pieces of shit. And then either I'll get fired and it's like, yeah, we're fucked, vote Trump or something. I don't know. Or, or it'll be like, no, you can do it. It's all just in the invisible clothes. I dunno. It was something, it was like, we, we actually can do it. And we're all just too afraid.

0:21:10 Eli: Not supposed to make your kids wear invisible clothes, Thomas, you're fired already, but

0:21:13 Tom: See, will say to Eli, like, I approach manners and politeness and teaching that stuff for the the kids, not at all from an empathy standpoint though. Like I just, it's like, never been the approach that I've taken. It's I've always approached it from a, you, what's in it for you. There's a lot in it. For you.

0:21:29 Thomas: Ah, like a sociopath. I get it. No, I'm just kidding.

0:21:31 Tom: Yeah. Like you will get ahead. Yeah, exactly. Like kids are sociopaths. Like, one thing that I think is, is incredibly true is that the real value of these things is that when you have, when you're you're polite, when you have good manners, you make other people around you comfortable. That is the point of all of that stuff. And in doing that, there are rewards for you to gain, there are things for you to reap from that. Other people will like you better, you will build better friendships, you you will will get a lot out of acting in polite ways rather than impolite ways.

You'll get more rewards, you'll will call on you more, they'll have you pass shit out out in class, that you'll get a lot more out of being the polite person than you will out of being the impolite person. And as time goes on, like your relationships will be better, you'll have relationships with better quality other people if you're polite. Like you sort of like move through this sort of like like from like please and thank you, which are like generally like little kid manners, into being polite in in more complicated ways and more in socially complex ways and navigating that. For me, all of that stuff, like when I teach it to the kids, is about teaching them like, "Hey, there's a real pragmatic reason why being

0:22:46 Thomas: Interesting.

0:22:46 Tom: Polite gets you something you want. You you better relationships with better quality people that will help you because you are better to them. So I think there's like actually different approaches that you can take with it that, that yield different results.

0:22:46 Thomas: This Interesting. Yeah.

0:23:01 Thomas: And mine would pretty much entirely be based on, like, well, like, when my kids don't do something like that, it's usually like, hey, you know, uh, mom made you really good dinner, you should probably like, you know, thank her for that. It is based in reasons, it's not based in like Or

0:23:14 Eli: What? If mom made a disgusting breakfast?

0:23:17 Thomas: Your mom, yeah, then you tell them to fuck. Fuck off. Yeah. Tell your mom she made disgusting breakfast. Realizing mine is more centered, I guess, in the like, you here's why this person should be thanked or here's why we should say please to this. Like it is more that stuff. And I'm wondering, here's my thought, Tom. Wonder if if if you're teaching it more as a rules based thing that's like, this will benefit you in a way. Is there a risk that they will apply it to the wrong people? Because, like, I'm thinking, if if my reasoning is more on like, hey, why does this person kind of deserve your respect in good manners, maybe if there's, I don't know, a piece of shit person who doesn't deserve it, then they won't automatically be like deferential to that piece of person who does not deserve it. Well

0:23:57 Eli: Yeah, and how do you teach them the difference, right?

0:24:00 Thomas: That's what I'm getting at, is this might be part of that. I don't know, because

0:24:03 Eli: Because generally, right, want to teach Max, like, listen to adults, right? Most of the adults in your life really, really care about you and want you to be be well. And when they tell you something's an emergency, you should listen. And when they tells you what to do, you should probably do it because they care about you and they care about your safety. But there's also adults out there who think the Jews use space lasers to start fires in California. And I won't always be there to be like, that's one of them. Right?

0:24:22 Thomas: Yeah.

0:24:29 Tom: Yeah.

0:24:29 Eli: So like, how do you, how do you teach kids discernment?

0:24:32 Thomas: Well,

0:24:31 Tom: Well, I don't want to teach kids to be deferential though. Like, I wouldn't think that, in my mind, that's not the same thing as manners or being polite, right? So, like being deferential is not necessarily the same things.

0:24:43 Thomas: Okay, Or polite if you're polite to someone who's potentially bad or threatening. Are You are You, yeah.

0:24:47 Tom: So, well, yeah. So, there's no harm in

0:24:50 Thomas: No. There is, like If youRE you're feeling pressured into being polite to someone who is potentially a bad or dangerous person, I guess, is my thinking, but

0:24:50 Tom: That, right. So you, I, don't understand that. Help me understand that, like how would be, look, maybe we don't, maybe, we're not talking about what polite is the same way. Can't think of a circumstance where like that is a thing. I don't, I don'T understand that genuinely.

0:25:13 Eli: Yeah, people like, you know, luring people into play, say, Hey, you have to help me with this. I need you to do this, um,

0:25:15 Thomas: People Learn Yeah, It's

0:25:19 Tom: I DON'T think of that. Okay. So that, that's what I think of like, okay, let's, that'S where we're missing each other on what polite is. Like polite is not, the so same thing as like just doing whatever anybody asks you to do.

0:25:21 Eli: What I think we're missed on is the definitions Yeah. Yeah. As Obedience. Right. Yeah. So

0:25:29 Tom: Oh polite and obedience are not the same. So a, thatS a really good distinction to draw. Polite is following a series of social clues and social cues and rules that we we all agree on. Polite is stuff like you're going to say thank you when somebody does something. You're going notice when people go out of their way. You're not going expect people to do things for you. You'll say please. Many, many more social around politeness that are not obedience related. I do not want to raise obedient kids.

0:25:59 Thomas: It's not obedient, I I think, I think, yeah, I think you're kind of drawing a line that's too easily, like, don't think in practice it's that simple, personally. Well

0:26:01 Tom: So Give, well, so help me understand, though. I'm I'm willing to concede the point if I understand it.

0:26:11 Thomas: Part of being polite might be helping out someone, uh, appears to need it, or just or shutting someone down who maybe ought to be shut down, in a way, you know what I mean? Like, I could see I could see that bleeding into that a little bit. It's hard to come up with a specific example, but like, say if a stranger is showing you attention in a slightly negative way that shouldn't be happening, we'll say, um, if you top politeness in a rules based more authoritarian manner, I feel like that's going to be more of an issue. I'm not not saying it's always, but Like, yeah.

0:26:35 Tom: Oh, 100%. I agree with- That, yeah, I I don't advocate that at all. I do not advocate teaching them as a series of authoritarian rules. I, and that's why I think teaching kids, especially as they start to get older, you know, little kids it's just a rule, please, thank you, these are really basic things, right? Like push in your chair when you're done with dinner, that kind kind of shit, right? But as kids get a little bit older and you start to explain to them that like, hey, look, all of these rules are advantageous for you to follow, if I'm then in a situation where somebody's being a shit to me, I can see immediately that there's no advantage for me in maintaining a level of politeness. I'm not going to gain anything from doing that. So my rule or my theory of teaching politeness and manners as a way to advance yourself socially and to make social connections, it works great when people are assholes.

It works better than everything else, actually, because it's not a series of hard and fast rules so much as it's a series of, hey, these are the ways that we've decided that we're all going to get along with one another. But if somebody's trying not to get alone with me, they can go fuck themselves sideways, it doesn't matter to me. Like, now I can very easily punt because I'm not working within a rules structure, I'm working within a structure of, hey, society is a way for us all to get long. If this guy doesn't want to get along, all right, I don't have to play nice. Yeah.

0:26:40 Thomas: Right.

0:26:44 Eli: So How have you passed, I guess my question is, because I agree and I love that, because I was very much taught politeness is obedience, right? So my question ist how do you pass that along to your kids, as someone who I, I think, like me, didn't get to experience it? Like, how do you, how do your kids, how do prepare your kids for that new paradigm, if I can use a pompous word, of politeness, so that they understand when someone is due politeness and when someone's not, and the difference between those two things? Like, how have you managed to pass that along to you? Cause your kids are polite. Your kids are awesome as fuck in the couple.

0:28:13 Tom: For the most part Yeah, yeah, I I don't think that they're all as polite as, as I would like them to be. I will say my kids are not obedient or deferential. Like, they are certainly not that, you

0:28:39 Eli: Yeah. Yeah. Donovan doesn't even tell you when he comes home. It's fine. Fucking hotel Curry over here.

0:28:51 Tom: You know that is not something that we value in our house, is to be either obedient or deferential. So you are polite for sure, but they'll politely say no. So you teach them them how to politely turn things down that they don't want to do, right? So you give them tools to do that. And you have it by conversation and by example, to polinely ask a question. If they're asked to do something, they can politely ask why. They can polinely argue the point. Some of it's about emotional regulation.

That's part of politeness, is not losing your temper and not treating people poorly or flippantly, or not expecting things from people that you don't have a right to expect, not expecting to be treated better than you treat other people. And a lot of that is just having those really blatant conversations. And then when people fail to be polite, having a conversation with them too, is like, hey, if behave like that, people are not going to like you.

It is going to be harder for you to make friends. It's going to to be harder for you to find a girlfriend. It is going to be harder for me to find somebody that wants to tolerate not being asked nicely for things.

0:29:57 Eli: Yeah.

0:29:58 Tom: So if you want to make connections with other people, I used to say this, like as the kids are 10, 11, 12, you know, if you wanna make connections with other that matter, you're gonna have to be more polite about it. And you can just say it to them and call them out like in, not call them in a mean way, but call them out in an explanatory way. Like, hey, nobody likes being spoken to like that. Everybody likes that being asked nicely. It's going to be harder for you to make friends, it's gonna be harder people to want to spend time with you. And I think that that kind of like process moves it away from that, like you were saying, Thomas, that authoritarian nonsense, these like follow the rules, build a higher, that's trash. But like, if they understand like, hey, there's something in this for me, then I think it goes a really long way, right?

0:30:40 Eli: Yeah. Remember something that Thomas said on an early episode of our show, and I hope it made the cut, but like, I remember Thomas was talking about talking to Phoebe once and she had done something he didn't like, or said something he didn't, like, and he said like, you know, Phoebe, when you do that, like people don't want to do these things for you. And that was such a revelation for me. Right. Don't do that was so the mindset I had been brought up in, right.

Is that there was right and wrong. But for the way that Thomas at Phoebe's level described the consequences of bad behavior without it being him. Right. Because what we either got was these hardcore rules that are graven in stone and you follow them or you don't. And there are consequences or you're breaking your mother's heart. Don't you see that you're braking your mother? Oh, your mother'S heart is broken in two, which is also not OK. You can't tell your kids your mom's heart is broken in two because you're going through natural growing up things. So I think about that quite a bit when I correct Max, especially now because he is back in his hitting phase a little bit. Just the last couple of days or so, he has decided to revisit the hitting. And really, very, very hard for me to stay calm and gentle

0:31:26 Thomas: Yeah.

0:31:37 Tom: Right.

0:31:52 Eli: In those moments and not talk about my own emotions, not talk about my own feelings, especially because my impulse you're

0:31:52 Thomas: Yeah, it is I picture you saying you're breaking my going into that voice but it's about you. Yeah.

0:32:01 Eli: Breaking my heart Yeah. My son What have you done? But like truly, like, I, I a lot of violent impulse because I'm a naturally violent person. I have never hit Max, I never will, not in a million years, but like, I'll tell you 100 true, like the other day I was carrying him, we're doing some calm thing, we're calming down, right? Right? And we're talking about it. And he just like double fists me in both sides of my head.

0:32:03 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, It's hard to, it's hard to deal with that

0:32:27 Eli: There is a blinding second where 100 % of my brain was like, punch this kid in the face. And I, of course I did not. Right. But what I did do was freeze in that moment. And so, yeah, I really try to use the that you have talked about on the show and the examples you have set with your older kids, kids, um, those moments to sort of figure out what to do, because, man, it is, it is rough. Yeah.

0:32:28 Thomas: Yeah.

0:32:28 Tom: Yeah. Oh,

0:32:49 Thomas: That First reaction is so tough when, when, when a kid is doing something, something that physically hurts or something like, it is, it's hard to do that perfectly because it's such a switch, like a quick twitch decision or not even a decision.

0:33:01 Tom: Absolutely.

0:33:00 Eli: Yeah. And like, hey, I'm over, I love you, and you're doing, like, the worst thing to me, you're physically hurting me, and it's like, oh, it's tough. And I, I, Anna's again so lucky to have her. Anna sort of noticed how upset I was and was like, tap out, and we eventually tapped in so that I I could like, honestly get over it.

0:33:05 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:33:24 Tom: You got to put yourself in a timeout.

0:33:26 Eli: I genuinely was like upset about it and realized like, Hey, it's not helpful for him for me to like pout about this interaction that we had. Right? He's got to be encouraged and move forward with positivity and all that kind of stuff. Like, I did all the right things in the moment, but now I got to go get over it so I can be a parent. I think about, um, I was Jewish way back in the Dizzee, um, read this, uh, there's like a, a commentary that's all about parenthood, right? Those of you who didn't grow up, uh, Judaism, uh, the Jewish holy books are living documents. They're not the word of God at any point.

They're just like, everyone, like, takes a turn and does whole things, and there's one guy who was like, what if it's about parenting? Um, So he literally, his whole thing is like, you think about it, the flood is like a flood of tears when your children die. Am I right? Yeah, bye bye bye, right? So I remember really liking that because one of the things that he talked about, he's not anti-corporal punishment, that would fucking rule, but one of the things he talked in that commentary that modern rabbis have picked up on is he was like, hey, you can't punish your kids when you're mad, right? Like, if you're mad when you are punishing your kids

0:33:26 Tom: Yeah, right. Yeah

0:34:30 Eli: You're not making the most reasonable decision, so you gotta like go calm down and come back. And I really take, of all the things of Judaism I've left behind, and obviously that's an entirely secular thing, it's not like, and God said to Moses on the

0:34:06 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No,

0:34:44 Eli: Mountain, take deep breaths

0:34:44 Thomas: I'm an atheist, so I'm not allowed to do that. I have to be, I have to be mad

0:34:46 Eli: Right. Yeah. I have to punch my kid Yeah. Um, like, I, I have really taken that with me and I try to continue to by it. Yeah.

0:34:48 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. That's good advice. Yeah.

0:34:55 Tom: I think like like embedded in that is is the idea, too, that you can't expect to teach emotional regulation from a dysregulated space yourself. It's just, it's literally not a possible thing because the kids will see right through it. They'll, they're going to notice right away that, like, this is bullshit, right? So it's, like, it's why, like, angry people often beget other angry people, you know? It's why these, these have a tendency to repeat, even though, like, a lot of times, like, what people will be disciplining somebody else for is exactly the emotional regulation imbalance that they are experiencing themselves, right? So it's like, you, you can see the kids will understand and build tools that see, like, right through that stuff.

Right. And I think the same is true when it comes to, like, behaviors around politeness and, and manners. I remember having a conversation with one of my closest friends. I, my, my buddy that I've known now for almost 30 years, one of them, probably my second and closest friend of all time, and, like, we were joking about, like, you know, we were, we were joking about this very topic together, and I was like, we're incredibly polite to each other. Like, I'm always, I would always say 30 years I've known this guy, it's always pleased It's, it's never a moment, it's not "pardon me" if I squeeze past them, all that stuff. And we talked about, he's like, yeah, why would I ever be less polite to someone I care about? And really strong tendency, but there's, but this is, like, this is unusual

0:35:56 Eli: Me, everybody God

0:35:56 Thomas: What

0:36:25 Tom: I think the

0:36:25 Eli: Thomas don't listen to this part, do this. I love you, Thomas. Just, what

0:36:29 Tom: The closer we are to people very often more often than not, I think the closer we are, the more of that we abandon because

0:36:32 Eli: A piece of shit I am to you. Yes.

0:36:30 Thomas: Oh Maybe. Well, I, maybe, but there's also a sense in which if you're overly formal with someone who you shouldn't be, who you're close to, then it feels cold and, like, inappropriate to the relationship. And I think that's kind of a tension there. Like, I, it would be weird to me if Lydia started being like, oh, thank you, mister. Like, that would be, and it wasn't in our role play.

0:36:40 Eli: Thank you Yeah.

0:36:58 Tom: Don't say please and thank you And you ask for something in your house with a Lydia? Like, now I'm curious. Like,

0:36:59 Thomas: Yeah. And thank you. Sure. But not, but like there are other parts of it that like the formality drops off in a way that I think is good. Like you don't, you don'T want it to feel formal. Informal And a lot of that. And I think some amount of the politeness is that like,

0:37:10 Tom: Agree with that. Yeah. I think that there's, it's funny because there's a lot of distinctions here that I think are kind of embedded that, agree you don't want to be formal with people you want to become friends with. You want to get close with. Formality tends to hold people at arm's length. I totally agree that. I'm right there with you. But I don't think that most politeness is formal. I actually don't Think that most of it is. Like, do I care about, like putting elbows on tables, Like at my dining room? No, of course not. But like what I do see is that a lot of people, as they become closer, they stop thanking. They stop saying please before they ask for something.

They stopped like expressing those sort of like small moments of real gratitude that politeness is often based on. And they just build these, I think, relationships that, that a lot of people end up resenting or feeling like, you know, not seen and not like appreciated in. And that's the opposite side of the formality, right? That's other side of the spectrum that, that think is also very real. Like, give you an example, like in, in, in my house, if I was hungry, like, let's say Hayley and I are hanging out, if I were hungry, there's no way I would ever get up and go get myself something to, to eat without asking her first if she wants something, right?

There's no world where I would do that. And if she's not sure if she want something, I will wait to get up until she's decided whether or not she

0:37:26 Thomas: Yeah.

0:38:33 Tom: Wants Something.

0:38:33 Thomas: Well, that's insane. He's

0:38:35 Eli: That's Weird, poor

0:38:35 Tom: No, I think that that's I think that that just polite, right like I like if she like, I'm not sure I'll be like, okay. Well, let me know, you know, and then I'll touch base there again in a few minutes and see if she wants something.

0:38:44 Eli: Tom clutching his stomach.

0:38:45 Thomas: Starving. Yeah, Yeah.

0:38:46 Eli: Oh, because especially because she's had stomach issues this year. Tom, you almost died. Eats like a saltine a day, man. You gotta change your policy.

0:38:49 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:38:50 Tom: But like, for a while that was, for a while, that was true. But like, yeah, like sorts of, I guess, and you don't have to do all the same thing. I'm not saying everybody has to do that. I just saying that that's an example, right?

0:38:56 Eli: Yeah. Obviously it's not, it's not a prescriptive thing. Right, and it's and it's it's a behavior you offer, not a behavior you expect. Yeah.

0:39:05 Thomas: There wasn't any danger of me doing that. Don't worry.

0:39:05 Tom: No, no, no. No. That's exactly right. That's Exactly right. But I do think that like at the root of what it means to, to decide upon manners and what those things matter to us. What we're deciding on is what parts of the social contract we think are most valuable to us as our values and as getting us what we want, you, because I do think that there's a strong pragmatic value to those things. You know, like I tell the kids, like Aislinn has a hard time saying thank you. She just doesn't really do it. And she's not much of a pleaser, actually. She's not much of a please person either.

0:39:11 Eli: Absolutely.

0:39:27 Eli: Keep

0:39:46 Tom: She's better with she's better with please than she is with thank you. But she's not good with either of them. She is at an age where she can begin to understand that, like, hey, we don't fix this, going to have a hard time making relationships with people like this is going to be a problem because at some point, like are going to expect a certain level of gratitude and a certain certain level of, you manners and politeness, and they're going to see this as rude and you're going to be seen as a rude person. And they're not going to want to, they're gonna label you that way, whether it's fair or not. So what I'll tolerate in the house is different than what you should sort of like put out

0:39:46 Thomas: She's a real dick, actually, now I think about it.

0:39:49 Eli: Saying fuck nuts

0:40:23 Tom: Into the world. And those are conversations that I think are really valuable to begin having with people as they sort of, like, move through those things. And like I said, I'm I in the kitchen walking past Haley, like not every time, but if I I'm walking past, we're both working in the kitchen. I'll be like, Oh, excuse me. As I walk past her.

0:40:38 Eli: That's insane.

0:40:38 Thomas: That's That's so funny. I was going to bring that up as a perfect example of what I don't say usually. Like, I think there's a lot with intimate partner that can go unsaid. Instead think you can take a more general, like, hey, there, you, gratitude in the relationship or in that day and is there, whatever, and that, that kind of serves rather than, like, the constant please and thank you. I was going to bring up that as an example. Like, I never say excuse me. I just, you know, get, do a little flirty grope and then get around her, you know.

0:40:38 Eli: Okay.

0:41:01 Tom: So I might do the same thing. I might put my hand on her hip as I walk past, but I'll acknowledge that I'm squeezing past her, but

0:41:02 Thomas: Just like yeah until

0:41:06 Eli: But, Tom, if you dip, does she dip and then do you both do, yes

0:41:11 Tom: Do you do that? I'm curious where you're cause Eli, you're an almost unfailingly polite person. If you are a friend. So like, as, like, somebody who's had the good fortune of calling you my friend for a number of years, you are unfailingly polite. Light, so I feel like these are values you hold too.

0:41:17 Eli: Yes.

0:41:26 Eli: They are. I, you know what's interesting is the thing you said about it's a thing you give rather than expect to receive. That's where I'm at, right? Right. Which is like I do a lot of politeness stuff for others and expect almost none of it.

0:41:42 Thomas: You reach a certain relationship with Eli and then it's all gaslighting and insults there's no know he'll just trick you into doing pull-ups. Yeah just you don't even if

0:41:44 Eli: Then and then it's all gaslighting and insults about your pull up abilities. That's right. Tricks you into doing pull ups. Has an affair with your wife on Instagram.

0:41:55 Thomas: He said, oh, I'm sorry, I tricked you into being pulled up. I'd be like, what, did an alien take over your body yeah, what yeah Oh, really?

0:41:58 Eli: What happened? Yeah. Did you steal the company? Happening, no.

0:42:04 Tom: So Why is it that you don't? It's like, are those things not valuable to you to receive back, or are they just not? I'm curious why it only flows in one direction for you. Yeah.

0:42:13 Eli: Think It's self -image thing because I think it's about respect, right? And I don't have a lot of self -respect um, so when, when people show me self - respect I am very uncomfortable in it, right? And that's largely what that is, right? That is largely someone saying like, hey, you are due this respect, and I'm always like, nah. I'll give you a great example, like my my students all call me Eli rather than Mr. Bosnick because I'm uncomfortable being called Mr. Boss Nick, right?

0:42:30 Thomas: Okay. Here we go again no

0:42:37 Tom: So that comes from you, I

0:42:39 Eli: Yeah, that's me, that's a me thing, that's not an other people thing, and, and people, not a good gift receiver. That's something that I've been working on the last couple of years. Like, people get me really lovely gifts and I want to do, like, a you didn't have to do that, and it's like, oh, that's no, thank you, to say a thank you out loud with your face, and then say what you liked about it, right? Because that, because my thing is like, like, ah, I didn't deserve that. Ah, you big fucking, ah love ya, whatever. But like, no, you actually have to have a moment where you genuinely thank a person. And so like, a lot of my bad manners come from is there a place where I am uncomfortable? Is there a relationship dynamic I'm uncomfortable imagining myself in? And what am I doing to avoid that?

0:42:54 Thomas: Yeah. Yep. That's a big one Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah.

0:43:23 Tom: Like, like, I expect the same, not the same, but I expect a, a pretty high degree of, in return, like, always. Like, I'll give you an example. Like, it's just our thing. Like, I always make Hayley her drinks and bring her her drink. So, like, if she's ever thirsty, I always makes sure to bring her a drink. She never has to get up and get herself a drink. I always do that, but she always says thank you. It would be fucking super weird, and if it wasn't, if she didn't say thank you, like, maybe she, like, forgets because she's looking at her phone or something, who cares? But, like, if just habitually she was not a habitual thinker, I would be much less inclined to continue doing it because I would be like, well, fuck me, you know? Like yeah

0:43:43 Eli: Yeah.

0:44:03 Thomas: Thank you is more common. Please is like never for us. Like when we're talking about intimate relationship, like that feels weird. Like if I said, oh, please, can you, like, that would feel bizarre to me, like in an intimate relationship. I mean, maybe sometimes, but like that feels weirdly formal to me because I think it's what's unstated is that we both always want to help each other. So it's fine, but thank you, I do get, like, we do, I, you know, we both would say that, like

0:44:24 Tom: What

0:44:25 Eli: Yeah. This is useful, we have couple code, right? So Anna's please is, I have a pug on my lap if she so if she has madge on her lap

0:44:37 Thomas: Which would read to me as, like, oh okay yeah yeah

0:44:38 Tom: Oh I get you she can't get up and do it. She's got a pug on her lap.

0:44:41 Eli: Right so she has a pug on her lab, and so, and, and I have occasionally used that, I have a plug on my lab, um, had a baby on my laptop or whatever the case may be. But like, yeah, no, there's, that's definitely it. But wait, I, I want to clarify, are there men out there in the world who are not water boys first and foremost and what they do second? I am just constantly ref, I don't know if you know this my wife is a vacuum of a desert island somewhere, and I am just refilling ever more ridiculous containers with the life-giving filtered water that she needs because she could taste the difference Can you imagine? There are men out there who don't give their wives filtered water. I mean, what are these guys doing? They should be dead.

0:44:42 Tom: Yeah. Yes. Oh

0:45:02 Thomas: Of course

0:45:12 Tom: Yes, wait

0:45:14 Thomas: Yeah.

0:45:21 Eli: I guess is what I've one

0:45:21 Thomas: They're trying to poison them yeah boy

0:45:23 Tom: Have to know, does Anna have more than one kind of drink always by her at any given time thank

0:45:28 Eli: Drink at a time. What is she, a peasant child in dictatorian England?

0:45:31 Tom: You Oh God. Yes. Yeah. At

0:45:33 Thomas: You guys are dealing with Remy, huh? Double fisting it at all times

0:45:36 Eli: There's saying there are 90 97 beverages, six of which were hot beverages and have gone cold. I don't know if you know this but if you make yourself a delicious cup of tea and then you leave it on the dining room table for four and a half hours, it is no longer a hot cup of tea. And that's on me. That's something that I've learned. Something I've learned is that I should, I got her a cup warmer a couple years ago. I got one of those warming cups, comes on, like the electronic thing, not, not the thing that gets hot, because I knew better than to get my wife, right?

0:45:44 Thomas: Oh my God Yep.

0:45:58 Tom: Yeah.

0:46:09 Thomas: I tried I tried that

0:46:11 Eli: But the cup warmer thing, she lost that bad boy. So I think she just waited until I left the room and threw it out the front door. It just went clapping down the front steps. Yeah, no, there's at least 87 beverages in, in 96 different cups. Not mentioning the kid, who also now has four different water. He's like some kind of gymnast with just 26 water bottles at all time. Just needs to squirt them in his mouth for his next pole vault or whatever.

0:46:11 Thomas: Too. Oh

0:46:36 Tom: Yes.

0:46:35 Thomas: God Yeah. Yeah. Lydia, I, uh, would get Lydia water, and then whatever water I got her would exist untouched in that form for several months because she doesn't drink water. So eventually I stopped she does. Yeah, she's a real Tom she doesn't drink water, and eventually I just quit, I just stopped. Nothing What?

0:46:48 Tom: Lydia, Lydia. I see you. I see Yo. Yeah. Yeah.

0:46:49 Eli: Doesn't drink water. What's she drink? Oh.

0:46:57 Thomas: Does Tom drink? Hard work, I don't know, something.

0:47:00 Tom: No. No, yeah, I had coffee this morning.

0:47:00 Thomas: Yeah.

0:47:02 Eli: Tom drinks coffee.

0:47:03 Tom: Yeah, I but I, I it's, it's two in the afternoon.

0:47:04 Thomas: I do make, I do make Lydia coffee every morning, but that's, but that, and then often she won't

0:47:08 Tom: I had coffee this morning. I haven't had anything since then.

0:47:08 Thomas: Drink that this this is What's insane to me, often she won't drink that, and I'll find her coffee mug somewhere, like, hidden somewhere and

0:47:17 Eli: Yeah. The hidden coffee mug is a good one. Yeah. Great prank. Got me. Yeah. Keep it up, ladies. All right, gentlemen, before we go, Thomas is my

0:47:19 Thomas: It's like, oh okay yeah it's awesome wait, for whatever this shit is, Eli, your new fucking, fucking whatever this bit is. Oh God I

0:47:40 Tom: Oh God.

0:47:40 Eli: Joke of the week. Thomas is a 32 -year -old, and he's still single. One day, a friend asks, hey, Thomas, why aren't you married? Can't you find a woman who will be a good wife? Thomas replied, actually, I found many women I wanted to marry, but when I bring them home to meet my parents, my mother doesn't like them. His friend thinks for a moment and says, I've got the perfect solution, just find a girl who's just like your mother. A few months later they meet again and the friend says, so, Thomas, did you find the perfect girl? Did your mother like her? With a frown on his face, Thomas answers, yes, I found the perfect girl. She was just like my mother. You were right, my mother liked her very much. And the friends said, well then, what's the problem? And he said, now my father doesn't like her.

0:48:22 Tom: Oh, God. Ah,

0:48:24 Thomas: Can't I don't want to do this. I don's Christ.

0:48:24 Tom: Ah, these are so bad.

0:48:27 Eli: I think we all get it. Tune In next week for black guys talk like this. Everybody, Dear Old Dads all

0:48:29 Tom: Oh god. My God. Oh my god do

0:48:35 Thomas: Well,

0:48:45 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads .com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILF, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC. Copyright 2022. All rights reserved.

0:49:25 Eli: Know when you spit on a cock before you suck it. What?

0:49:27 Thomas: She's a real dick, actually, now I think about it.

0:49:30 Eli: Punch this kid in the face.