DOD171: Crashing Your Ex's Vacation

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and utter dependence. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired.

0:00:22 Clip: Telling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:28 Tom: To Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's crossing every boundary. I'm Tom Curry, I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick, it's a that would only be for patrons we would only peg the patrons no so I'm

0:00:35 Thomas: The pegging episode

0:00:41 Eli: A very specific boundary of muscle, human muscle, a ring, if you will.

0:00:48 Tom: Curious if you guys I wanted to start with a just a hijack real quick I'm curious if you guys have started your christmas shopping we find ourselves in the end days of november as we record this so

0:00:59 Eli: I I have, Tom. Indeed I am. Indeed I know already I took care of your families, both of yours.

0:01:04 Tom: Which was by which the way delightful and thoughtful thank you very much

0:01:07 Eli: Have you gotten to play or are you waiting until Christmas?

0:01:10 Tom: We're gonna I'm gonna wait yeah I'm not yeah this for a

0:01:11 Eli: Waiting. Smiths, you guys waiting?

0:01:14 Thomas: Unfortunately you got something that was your idea so I'm glad you you got it but I had told arlo about this game uh I don't know why I'm saying like as though he listens, I don't, uh yeah I told ario arlo About Mario Maker and he was like I must have that in my veins immediately. He, he wanted it so badly, but I'm, I'm sitting here looking at like

0:01:25 Tom: Long Now, did he melt it over a bent spoon before he got it in there or just, just.

0:01:38 Thomas: Practically man, like pretty much. And he's got so many games and I don't, I'm not doing the thing where I'm like you spoiled ass kids, but like, he's, he, he doesn't want to do it. He's got too many games. He has so many that I'm okay if like, are not valuing them enough. Like I'm not, I don't want to get into a cycle and maybe you can help me out here. I don't want to get into a cycle where I'm buying him 14 games and he plays each one for 10 minutes like I'm not doing that you know like come on so

0:02:02 Eli: Yeah what is he me and my steam library described exactly hey how about fuck you Thomas, maybe maybe Arlo just needs a little break from work every now and then and he gets bored or the game gets hard and he kind of gets the gist of what it is but he doesn't want to get good at it hmm

0:02:17 Thomas: I so because we've, we've had this conversation, I won't rehash it but in terms of like I am letting him play switch we are doing some that he's not playing forever and ever but you know holidays are a special time he gets to play a little more you know when they're off but I did draw the line at like yeah but you keep wanting a new game new game I'm gonna at least do a little bit of the like all right you got to at least play this one for a while you know otherwise then lo and behold this because I was like oh I have to buy it that was the other thing it became a good excuse because like now that he is playing more than I am it's not stuff that I've played already anymore so I was He's like, oh, can't get Mario Maker. I got to buy it. You know, and that's just we'll see maybe Christmas or whatever. And then Eli sends it over. But I kept I didn't show him yet. So I think we're holding it till Christmas is the the short answer. But very excited.

0:03:02 Eli: Yeah keep it tight oh

0:03:04 Thomas: He is he is going to lose it when he sees that at Christmas. And I am going to 100 percent tell him I got him it. And like, you don't exist. And it was entirely.

0:03:07 Eli: He's gonna love it that's fair, you know what you gotta do, it's It's a different kind of gift, but it's still a gift. We stand, we get it, to do what you got to do. Yeah, but I took care of all that. The only person in my life who I haven't taken care of yet, because my wife has a really good gift list. My mom and sister, they do that. The only one person who I don't know what I'm getting is Heath, Bethesda, and Wright.

0:03:31 Thomas: Interesting.

0:03:32 Eli: I got him cheese last year. And we're in a present truce, right? So we have a dollar limit on our Christmas gifts this year.

0:03:36 Thomas: It's always good.

0:03:35 Tom: Did you really? Well, wait a second. I just want to throw in. You got him cheese. Do you know what Cogdiss got Heath last year for Christmas?

0:03:49 Thomas: Is it, is it cheese?

0:03:50 Eli: Steaks

0:03:51 Tom: We got him like cheese humidor.

0:03:52 Thomas: Is the answer cheese?

0:03:53 Tom: I forgot what it's called, but it's a specific like little humidor for your cheese. And we got him this like melting thing to make raclette and then we sent him cheese I think it's hilarious that like unbeknownst to we all sent him cheesepresents that's

0:03:56 Eli: Cheese humidor yeah

0:04:03 Thomas: My God. Hey Heath, if you want to re -gift that, I would like a hundred percent if he doesn't like it or

0:04:11 Tom: So funny

0:04:08 Eli: We I'll take some fucking cheese yeah so

0:04:11 Tom: To me I

0:04:12 Thomas: Tom, if You want to buy the exact same gift. If you got two of those, like that sounds delicious.

0:04:16 Tom: Have your gift already thomas

0:04:17 Thomas: Oh, is a cheese related?

0:04:17 Tom: I haveyourgiftalready

0:04:19 Eli: I got them cheese last year so I have to get him something that isn't cheese has to be under so I nailed it with ann his uh soon wife to be fucking nailed it nailed it with kind of sort of step kid thanks to ann's help I got I got even got a good one for cecil this this year like I actually thought of something smart because I'm always like cooking but then I don't know what the fuck he wants and that's like someone being like here's a deck of cards I hear you like magic but I I think I nailed it with c -dog this year so I was pretty pretty excited for all of my gifts

0:04:19 Tom: It is not cheese related unfortunately

0:04:47 Thomas: Hey Eli, should we tell Tom what his gift is? All right. We'll tell him. Tom, Tom, we stole the company. You don't have to work anymore. It's all ours.

0:04:49 Eli: We stole the company from you buddy you're welcome no

0:04:54 Tom: Right but am I still getting checks well that's not I don't have to work anymore that's I have have to work different somewhere else now

0:04:55 Thomas: Nope. But you don't have to do it anymore. Also, we got you fired from your day job. You don''t have to do it any more, man. No more money, but no more shocking your balls awake. It's for your own good.

0:05:05 Tom: Don't understand how have to works we

0:05:02 Eli: So, I've 11 -year -old girl for the last couple of years on the internet. And today,

0:05:13 Thomas: That's not related. This is a new segment. Eli, we're still on.

0:05:15 Tom: This is jesus

0:05:16 Eli: On my MySpace, I accused you of molesting me. So, um, yeah. You'll get a call from the cops. It's fine. It's, um...

0:05:20 Tom: Christ jesus Christ it's funny

0:05:25 Thomas: But importantly, no more working so much.

0:05:28 Eli: Yeah. Yeah. Wait till you see what's in those signatures those emails I've been sending you. It's a, we have fun pranks. But hey, you guys know the only thing worse than secretly posing as co -workers for just over two years so you could get someone arrested for child pornography possession?

0:05:34 Tom: That

0:05:44 Eli: Why?

0:05:42 Tom: Is not fucking

0:05:44 Thomas: Not much is worse than that.

0:05:46 Eli: It's the auto ads. The auto ads, which I got a weird one the other day. Truly like an upsetting one the another day. It was for wine and gift. Gift and wine. Have you guys gotten one of these it's

0:05:57 Thomas: It's because they heard that you haven't bought Heath So

0:06:00 Eli: Are the saddest fucking ads there's like a dog barking in the background you hear broken glass and sirens and it's just like hey ladies a dollar off absolute vodka that's what we can give you a dollar one fucking dollar but you know what it matters it adds up because you drink seven of those bottles a week and then you get another one for free wine and gift you can come in person you can order it online drizzly do whatever the fuck Fuck you need to do to get your fix, am I right? Why in the cap? Anyways, you can prevent that for as little as a dollar over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dads. Where not only we get an extended commercial free version of every single show, but you'll also get all the bonus material we've created. We got some AMAs there. We had a fun little conversation about hot dogs on

0:06:28 Thomas: Jesus.

0:06:29 Tom: I love

0:06:46 Thomas: Hey, remember how weird dinner party questions was? We got, Eli decided.

0:06:51 Eli: Listener favorite. Listener favorite dinner party questions. Questions the heart and soul of our podcast dinner party questions exactly

0:06:55 Thomas: Eli decided I'm going to want to. Yeah.

0:06:59 Tom: That we took his dinner party question and ran with it for 45 minutes though 45 minutes on this one

0:07:03 Eli: Important legendary anyways check it out patreon.com forward slash dear old dads oh yeah yeah

0:07:12 Tom: Fuck all right so I ran across this Am I the Asshole and I thought it would be a great, I don't know, almost holiday themed Am I the Asshole. I also think maybe we might three bears this one so I'm curious where we all land on it, uh it's a longer Am I the Asshole so I am going to go ahead and read it and then we can kind of launch into this a little bit. AITA for accepting an invitation to my ex-husband's family Christmas vacation and upsetting my two kids' stepmom.

0:07:26 Eli: I stand well

0:07:43 Tom: For almost five years. We share two kids, a seven and a 12 -year -old, both daughters. He usually has them on the weekends during the school year. My husband got remarried to his wife in mid -April of 2023. His wife has a 13 -year old daughter from a previous relationship. Past Saturday, my ex and I hosted a birthday party for our 12 -years -old daughter at a bowling alley, since that's one of the things she enjoys doing. Well I love the detail in here like it would like yeah we threw a party at the

0:07:40 Thomas: Already okay

0:08:07 Eli: I'm glad to hear it yeah lest you think we forced your 13 year old to bowl relax

0:08:12 Tom: So fucking we invited some relatives and friends of hers and of course our youngest his wife and his stepdaughter were also there I was conversating you were talking I fucking hate that so much I was fucking conversing

0:08:25 Eli: Chat gbt yeah

0:08:25 Thomas: She's is this like a police report Like, at 0500, I was conversating with an individual.

0:08:28 Eli: Exactly my name's in lowercase levels

0:08:33 Tom: Jumped in their vehicle it's a car it's it's a car, Brad. It's a fucking car. Was conversating with my mom, ex, former mother -in -law and my youngest daughter when my former mother in law brought up family vacation during Christmas and asked if I wanted to go. I looked at my ex who shrugged his shoulders and said that maybe it would be a good idea for the kids.

0:08:51 Eli: Pause who the fuck takes that as a yes

0:08:56 Tom: Dude, we got to get there because there is nothing but problems here. My youngest then got excited, begging me to say yes. That was enough to make Sorry, there's a break in the thing. And speak to her. I told her that my kids were the reason why I'm going on this trip. She didn't want to accept that and continued to say that just because I share kids with my ex does not mean I should tag along on his family vacation, especially now that he's married to someone else. It almost sounded like she was crying as she said that. My ex tried to calm her down, but she wouldn't listen, so we both agreed to end the call so they could talk. Was I wrong? I gotta know where you guys there's so fucking much in this enormous am I the asshole to unpack

0:10:05 Eli: Say this this situation gets slightly complicated when the kid is like oh oh, please, oh, please, oh, please. But you should be so against going on vacation with your ex that your kid wouldn't dream of saying, oh, please, oh, please, oh, please. It's like, here's the thing, right? I'm not, I don't want to go full Tom Curry, right? I believe that you can see your exes on the visible light spectrum after you are no longer fucking each other. I get it. Ball slapped the back of thighs and you've got to go your separate ways. That's all I'm saying, right? Right. Going on vacation with someone else's family is fucking bizarre, especially because the the ex -husband's response was.

0:10:49 Eli: Right. I wouldn't go on a vacation with friends if I said, hey, do you want me to come on this thing I'm being invited on? And they were like, I'd be like, oh, well, no, I certainly don't need to be in a space where I am not excitedly welcome. Welcome.

0:11:05 Tom: About this I think start to finish like is just outside other than they went to a bowling alley that's the only part of this story where I think anything where I I think anything even remotely appropriate even accidentally happened in this story like what fucking world is this fucking mother -in -law living in that she is inviting and trying to put plans together that involve the kids in front of the kids you never do that you they got a seven -year -old kid the youngest kid is the one right there you had a seven - year -old kid and you're like hey you know we should discuss possibilities in front on as second graders it's

0:11:13 Eli: I don't even approve of that. I know. Spell the word cookie in front of my son. Why the fuck would you try to make plans?

0:11:51 Tom: Fucking unhinged that's very first thought reading this was like that feels so manipulative by an a -in -law who wants a relationship with the first wife rather than a relationship mit the second wife that you would never no sane grown person over the age of 19 would ever in front of children be like let's make a plan where the kids overhear a thing they're definitely going to want to do you're

0:12:19 Eli: Who wants candy? Who wants exciting new activity? No, totally agree. Now, let me say this. Do I empathize with the mother -in -law? Obviously, yes. Because everyone knows what the second wife is like, right? The first one was the one who bore your son's children and the second one met him at pilates class like look we and we fucking stand but I'm just saying your mom isn't like I bet she sucks a ton of dick like your mom's not excited about your second wife okay okay well maybe your mom that Haley could sure throw a punch let me tell you

0:12:32 Tom: You gotta be careful here eli bosnick strong disagree in every like I'll just say I will will say my, my dad very clearly likes Haley much more than he likes my ex and Haley's Haley family likes me a whole lot more than her

0:13:05 Eli: Come on I think using your specific example is deeply unfair to your dad's, like you know what I like about Haley is that she, um, she doesn't go to the Potter's house and kill the parents while attempting to kill the boy and get rebounded bond by her own curse, I really love that about Haley, it's never happened to her, not even once

0:13:26 Thomas: OK, however, my nomination for hilarious dad fact that he'll casually drop one day would be that Tom's dad is still in regular contact with his ex like all the time. Just like they're friends.

0:13:36 Eli: Well and maybe they don't he could be and they just haven't mentioned it right tom would find out and be like that's none of my business with

0:13:39 Tom: I dad dad and I have to he he maintains a polite relationship because he wants to see the kids

0:13:48 Thomas: With you. I think

0:13:50 Eli: You with you a cool but polite relationship with you his son you're

0:13:56 Tom: I I wonder what a polite relationship with like that'd be a remove on a remove that'd be but like the mother -in -law here is fucking nuts but it's like so is the lady writing this like so is the the bio mom of these kids I

0:14:03 Eli: Hard to do hard to master

0:14:09 Thomas: Everyone kind of is I think everyone here sucks

0:14:12 Eli: Everyone except the seven -year -old sucks oh

0:14:15 Tom: I don' think the new wife sucks here like decisions are being made I

0:14:18 Thomas: True are you kidding me

0:14:18 Eli: The new wife sucks you call

0:14:19 Thomas: This new wife sucks real hard

0:14:22 Eli: Come on my special vacay get the fuck grow up I if Max wanted me to I would would go on vacation with Adolf Hitler, right

0:14:24 Thomas: Shut up yeah that's

0:14:30 Tom: Would would go no no no I I think I think she's I would go fucking ballistic I would I would go absolutely fucking ballistic if my family vacation was going to without any consultation we're not even going to talk about it we don't even you don't ever give me the the courtesy of the conversation but all of a sudden my family vacations which I I'm using presumably like my precious work time off of in order to have is

0:14:57 Eli: That that your mother is planning keep in mind

0:14:59 Tom: That vacation is now without any conversation with me with no respect at all to how I might feel about it is now going to involve my wife's ex that is such an unhinged and rude and disrespectful thing to do to not even involve her in the conversation I I would blow my fucking top even if I would have said yes even if I would have said yes I would be beside myself mad no

0:15:16 Eli: Definitely 100 total in agreement in how rude it is but tom you and I both know that you would be sitting next to that gentleman in a monster energy hat right now talking about how you could work an uncle cracker concert into your family vacation if that's it you would not call him crying hey

0:15:42 Tom: I know because look here's the other thing I would not like there's no world in

0:15:45 Eli: Man it's me Tom oh boy Haley really done goofed on this one I know there's a bubble Buffalo Wild Wings you haven't been to in that area and you're really excited about it

0:15:59 Tom: But but in this story to be fair in this story the the new wife doesn't call anybody that's not something that that happens in the, in the story, so, yeah, she's,

0:16:01 Eli: She's making him call she's there she gets put on speakerphone what do you You think he was like, I'm going to call and she was like no, stop, don't. No, she absolutely was like well I guess if you want to call her and tell her. I used to fucking absolutely

0:16:22 Tom: I, but I would be like, well, you're gonna make a call and put an end to this, that's not how this is gonna work, I'm

0:16:25 Eli: That's fine. She may have been calling but she was

0:16:27 Tom: Don't know, I'm blowing, like, like let's say it's a week's vacation, I'M NOT SPENDING 50 % OF MY TIME OFF OF WORK THAT I GET IN A YEAR ON A VACATION WITH MY WIFE'S EX, WITHOUT ANYBODY EVEN BOTHERING TO make a like a having a conversation with me about my thoughts on that like a crazy person thing to do

0:16:42 Thomas: That's something that does need to be planned together ahead of time, fully.

0:16:47 Eli: But think about all you'd learn about how to put lights on the underside of your car Tom. Like there's so much there's such a so much you could learn and grow from that experience.

0:16:50 Tom: Like I will acknowledge like there are a lot of people out there who have these sort of co -parenting relationships where everybody gets along and everybody involved in the transaction seems to be like if not even friends. And I think that that's personally, I don't get that. Like everybody knows it's not a surprise to listeners of this show. Like, I think that's a weird boundary crossing, but like that's descriptive, not proscriptive. Like I'm not saying like you have to have the same boundaries I have. I think it's fucking weird. You fucking do you. But even if you have that kind of a relationship, the excuse that this lady gives is like, well, you know, I would go on that vacation if it would make my kids happy. The kids were already going to go on the vacation. Not like if she didn't go on The Vacation.

0:17:45 Eli: This is a wildly important factoid that had not occurred to me. Yeah, I because it was a chance for a kid to go somewhere. But if the kid gets to go no matter what, okay. Well, if the kids gets to no matter, no matter she's just, there's no saving. There's no complication whatsoever.

0:17:50 Tom: The kids were always going. No, they were always going.

0:17:57 Thomas: They were always going.

0:18:04 Tom: None. None,

0:18:05 Thomas: Look, they're trying to... What's the movie with the twins who try to trick their parents to get back together?

0:18:11 Tom: Parent Trap.

0:18:12 Thomas: They're trying to parent trap. The kids are trying to parent trap them and they get excited about it.

0:18:16 Eli: Fatal Attraction.

0:18:17 Tom: Yeah. So let me me bring you back to the story so listeners are reminded. So I was conversating again with my mom, my ex, my former mother -in -law, and my youngest daughter when my former mother -In -law brought up family vacation during Christmas and asked if I wanted to go. So presumably they are all taking a family Christmas vacation and add -on is the ex -wife.

0:18:26 Thomas: Back to the conversation. Huh. They're all going. But it's like is the mother in law in charge of the trip or something? Does she do the. That's a weird setup, isn't it? Like, and I guess all I'm saying is that's slightly different than like, oh, you and Haley are planning a trip and then Then, you Haley's ex is on, you know, it's a little different if it's like family trip that grandma is planning. I don't know. It's slightly different. I'm not saying it's necessarily like but it's like a little different.

0:18:51 Tom: I think sometimes grandparents will set up trips like family trips, especially if they've got more money right no no I hear what you're saying but

0:19:13 Thomas: The main thing is like, obviously there needed to be at more conversation before pulling the trigger on this. Like that's at a minimum. I'll confess to like, when I read this, I might've misread it because I do a thing where someone starts saying, um, -in -law, my ex, my fan. And my brain goes, and I don't, I assume the wife was like there for that conversation and then just didn't say anything or something. Like I just, my brain assumed she was, cause why wouldn't she be there at the birthday?

0:19:41 Eli: Just standing there, silently shaking your head back and forth.

0:19:43 Thomas: Why wouldn't you be at the party? It was at a bowling alley, which the, you know what I mean?

0:19:46 Tom: Well I think she was there but they were all having this conversation without her is the way it's written yeah

0:19:51 Thomas: Is that what's yeah.

0:19:50 Eli: Don't go to get nachos. That's you gotta, you gotta keep your eye on the prize.

0:19:53 Thomas: She was the, actually she's the bowler and she was like taking it seriously and no one else was. And And she's up there like, guys, I have an incredible game going.

0:19:59 Eli: She, she bowled a perfect 300 that night, but her, but her husband remarried her ex. It's hard to tell which is true and which is false.

0:20:03 Thomas: Everyone else is planning this trip. I think we actually are all probably pretty much in agreement on this one. Right. I think I'm going to have to do this. I think that we could also argue who is the biggest asshole. I thinkthat would be a fun one.

0:20:19 Tom: So I think the order of asshole is almost tied between mother -in -law and the husband absolutely

0:20:25 Eli: Mother -in -law is trying to reclaim her family and we cannot blame her for that. She doesn't want to go on vacation with Ashley.

0:20:32 Tom: Blame her for that look

0:20:36 Eli: She doesn'T want to Tom. She she doesn'T have anything to talk to about this 26 year old about. Okay. Okay, they're three generations separate. She has no idea what to say to this Pilates instructor. Her her husband son met on Hinge. Okay, time has left her by. Her and Beatrice got along super well. She was there for the birth. Gave the daughter that doll she had as a grandparent.

0:21:04 Thomas: So the mother -in -law is trying to parent trap. Is that what you're thinking?

0:21:07 Eli: The mother, this is absolutely.

0:21:08 Tom: -in -law is totally trying

0:21:09 Eli: She's trying to recapture the family she was promised at that wedding in the beautiful springtime in nantucket she looked gorgeous this new one and him got married in vegas because she likes it there that's his words not hers his words

0:21:09 Tom: To parent trap that's what I think makes her the asshole

0:21:23 Thomas: That's wow. I think we can all agree the husband is the worst. That's absolutely the worst because you could 100 percent tell that he takes no active hand in planning. Anything is relying on all the labor, emotional labor of the women around him. And then it's like, oh yeah, I guess I'll be fine. And then like didn't have a conversation.

0:21:29 Eli: The husband is one billion percent the worst hey she's mad she's bad I'm calling because she's made 100

0:21:48 Thomas: Yeah. And exactly. Exactly. And probably told his current wife, oh, she just like butter way in. And like, I don't I couldn't do anything about, you know, like I guarantee you he told some bullshit version of the story to the wife, you know, and like if he was a responsible citizen, he should be taking the L on this and being like, hey, I, I should have said I wasn't sure how to react in that situation.

0:22:08 Eli: She should have found his body hanging in the garage and the apology should have been in the note. That's what should have happened.

0:22:14 Tom: Look the the mother -in -law like just wrong the mother in law is clearly the biggest asshole right but like there she should never be bringing this up first of all it's a rude thing to ask

0:22:20 Eli: She's trying to recapture her family, Tom! Oh, you don't know how often she keeps quiet about this. You have no idea how many times her lips have been sealed against her will.

0:22:34 Tom: Then to bring it up in front of a kid is it's inexcusably awful like that is a that's a cruel thing to do that

0:22:38 Eli: Last Thanksgiving, when she decided she was keto, and I made all these special dishes for her, did anyone say anything? But I want to have vacation with my actual daughter, and all of a sudden I'm the villain, Tom?

0:22:46 Tom: Is your actual daughter but like what what crazy to me is the other two adults standing there the ex -wife and the uh uh, husband, they both had the opportunity to be like, actually, this is not an appropriate place for us to have this conversation and not all parties affected are here. So why don't we table this for a minute?

0:23:12 Eli: Yeah.

0:23:12 Tom: Like, let's just fucking relax. But instead homeboys just like, and just like fucking shrug emojis at the problem. And I actually think it's an asshole move to accept accept the invitation you

0:23:20 Eli: Abstain it's insane to accept the invitation thank

0:23:28 Thomas: Oh, it is. It is. It still think that that heard doing that in the face of the child. So in order of assholery for me, and it doesn't mean that that place is not an asshole. Just to be clear, order of asshole for me. Husband, 100 percent first mother -in -law, second, this X third. Well, fuck. But what about this wife is? I don't know. That's where do I put her in the mix? That's tough.

0:23:28 Tom: It's it's insane new

0:23:43 Eli: You, correct okay,

0:23:53 Thomas: You know, how

0:23:53 Eli: So the correct answer is husband, ex -husband first, writer of the post second new wife third mother -in -law fourth mother -In -law fourth she's just trying to get her her family back, Tom.

0:24:06 Thomas: What? Yeah. I don't know about this, man. I,

0:24:03 Tom: Wife third you're fucking insane no she is not allowed to do that that's insane that's

0:24:16 Thomas: I need to do some forensic study of this. Okay. I look, I read it. I a hundred percent read it. Uh, but when it comes to family relationships, my brain struggles, it's like, it'S like, so Eli picture you doing math. That's me. Like when, when they start talking about like, Oh my mother -in -law, It's like sine of the, you know, cosine over the, I'm just like, okay, math. And so like, I think I did. So let's get very forensic reading, close reading. So we have, we -in -law you think is in charge of this thing, right? You think she's like, Okay, so got married, conversating with my mom. Okay, wait. So wait, her mom is there.

0:24:17 Tom: Sane no

0:24:34 Eli: Cosine of the... Okay.

0:24:51 Tom: No

0:24:45 Eli: She's planning the vacation. No, no, no. No. It's only one mom and it's the mother -in -law. Ex -mother -in law.

0:24:56 Thomas: No, no I was conversating With my mom, ex, former mother - in -law, and my youngest daughter. So that, so I guess that would be like, grandparents are coming to the thing.

0:25:02 Tom: I don't Right.

0:25:06 Thomas: Okay. Gotcha. -in -law brought up family vacation during Christmas and asked if I wanted to go. I So the fact, okay., there's so many things wrong with this. So here's, mine's contingent because if the mother - in -law was like the planner of the entire thing, then she goes a little bit down on the assholery for me. But if she's just like one member of this family trip who is like, hey, you want to go in front of the kid?

0:25:27 Eli: I think it says she's planning it. I

0:25:29 Thomas: Does it say she's planning it? I think it just says, I think we assumed that.

0:25:29 Eli: Think she's... I think... Tom, back the record, if he would I

0:25:36 Thomas: Glad we hired that transcriptionist to, yeah, could use some money.

0:25:39 Eli: Thought it was good yeah sucks that she stole the podcast

0:25:46 Tom: I was I was conversating with my mom, ex, former mother -in -law and my youngest daughter when my former mother in law brought up family vacation during Christmas and asked if I wanted to go. Now I think if you're bringing it up and you're inviting other people, you clearly are in charge.

0:26:00 Eli: She's planning it

0:26:01 Thomas: I would hope. I'm just saying if on the off chance, just a little caveat, on theoffchance, she's not the one planning it, that makes her extremely Namely more asshole is all I'm saying.

0:26:08 Eli: Obviously if she's inviting her to someone else's vacation yeah that's weird yeah

0:26:11 Thomas: Well, it's their trip. But like, you know what I mean? Like, I could imagine that. Anyway. Yeah. Jeez.

0:26:14 Eli: Incorrect

0:26:15 Tom: Right. So I think it's mother -in -law clearly first husband

0:26:19 Eli: Just trying to get her family back

0:26:21 Tom: And op tied new wife new

0:26:27 Eli: Hey

0:26:27 Thomas: Come on. I call foul on that.

0:26:30 Eli: Come on

0:26:30 Tom: Wife not the asshole at all what did she do tell me what she tell me what she did wrong she got upset that she wasn't

0:26:37 Thomas: She's a bit much.

0:26:33 Eli: All she she made him call her for takesies backsies because

0:26:40 Thomas: Call and is crying in the background.

0:26:44 Tom: Dude feel like okay maybe I'm coming at this from as as a person who has always in their life had really fucking limited no really really limited vacation time and understands what it means to use that vacation time.

0:26:50 Thomas: Cried about. No. Yeah. I was

0:26:58 Tom: For most people, no, most people get a two -week paid vacation is pretty standard. Like Like in America, that's what we get is a two week paid vacation. Idea of using the one, even one of the 10 days that I get off in a year on something nobody consults me about might make me really fucking uncomfortable comfortable or just might make me like, well, this isn't how I would want to spend one of my 10 % of my time. If it's one day, that's a big deal to just be completely left out of the loop. Yeah. I would fucking lose it. I Would absolutely be beside myself

0:26:58 Thomas: Going to say that earlier, Tom. Most people are not working like you are. I agree, but there's also the, the part where, why are you blaming? I mean, why isn't she going off on the mother -in -law? Cause like that, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like the mother in law trapped everyone into this situation, at least to start, not like irretrievably because

0:27:50 Eli: Because she's trying to get her family back

0:27:51 Tom: Because the lady agree. I be.

0:27:52 Thomas: She said it in front of the seven -year -old. Like, so, so that's a rough. So like I I get the, the new wife having upset, but the degree of upset she is plus the, how she's directing it toward the X is a little much to me. That's a little much.

0:28:07 Eli: Here's the thing I think the degree of upset which tom is echoing I completely understand because I would be exactly that upset I totally get it it is the taking action about your upsetness that makes her the asshole you you just gotta stuff stuff that down. You gotta stuff it down because

0:28:20 Thomas: Man.

0:28:18 Tom: Why? What for? It's not for the good of the kids. Remember the kids are already going on this trip.

0:28:27 Eli: Of course the kids are already going, but because

0:28:28 Tom: So why am I stuffing down being treated like an asshole?

0:28:30 Eli: Because if there's ever conflict, people don't love you.

0:28:34 Tom: What do I need in this? Who in this scenario? No, no, no. That's a good point. But in this scenario, you don't need anyone to love you.

0:28:39 Eli: You need your husband to love you

0:28:40 Thomas: In this scenario, you don't need anyone to love you.

0:28:43 Tom: You don't know. No, your husband. Well, why wouldn't your why would your husband be mad at you in this situation?

0:28:44 Eli: Because you're making him call backsies.

0:28:50 Tom: Oh, that's that. That some pussy shit right there. If he is going to be mad.

0:28:52 Eli: Making him Well, he is a boy. He shrugged. He's a shrugging puss. You're dealing with a pure...

0:28:57 Thomas: He's a... Yeah,

0:28:57 Tom: She'll just ride over the top of him. He's not going to be mad at all. So just just ride over the top of him because he's a spineless jellyfish who gives a shit no

0:29:03 Eli: Is a spineless jelly man.

0:29:04 Thomas: Is 100% number one asshole for me. 100 % the dude.

0:29:07 Eli: Number one asshole.

0:29:08 Tom: Way no he's not the asshole for not responding better to a situation the mother -in -law created what the

0:29:14 Thomas: No. Oh. Oh yes, he is. Oh

0:29:09 Eli: Number one asshole, she's trying to get her family back.

0:29:18 Thomas: He is, Tom.

0:29:19 Eli: She lost her husband less than a year ago, Tom.

0:29:19 Tom: He's trying to get the this

0:29:19 Thomas: Tom, I'm not even doing that bit. And I still agree with it.

0:29:24 Eli: Her husband didn't dance with Ashley at the wedding. Her husband isn't peepaw to her grandchildren, all right? You know what I'm saying? She misses him. She misses the feeling of family. She wanted that back together again.

0:29:36 Tom: You don't get to do that you do not get to dude you don'T get to decide oh

0:29:40 Thomas: The husband sits there and says, oh, yeah, maybe. And then doesn't follow up to resolve that. Because right away, here's the thing. I agree with you, Tom, that the mother -in -law is causing the thing initially. I think that she's up there on the list. But, okay, the there has been handed a grenade, admittedly, handed a grenade. And he's like, I don't know. And then he just like drops it on his whole family instead of being like, yeah, he's number one.

0:29:59 Eli: With the pin out.

0:30:04 Tom: He's an asshole yeah Yeah.

0:30:06 Thomas: Cause he needed to be like the in moment. Oh, Hey, we, don't we talk about that? Cause he also needs to deal with the kids. Oh you know, I'm not sure you come up with something right away for the presence of the kids? Oh, you know I, you might have plans that weekend or you know? Oh we already bought the tickets. Unfortunately, you know, right away. That's easy. Come up with. Oh. His mom doesn't like contradict him, which admittedly that could happen. Now they, now they say this out loud. He could try to do a nice, easy lie to ease the kid's mind. And then the mom is like, no, we have to, I'll book it right now. It's fine.

0:30:37 Eli: I'll book you right now. There's three extra tickets available right here you

0:30:39 Thomas: That could happened. But, but okay. So then in that case, you gotta be thinking fast. You gotta be on your feet. You you got to hand it to the ex. You Got to say, you got it. Take out your kid. No, you guys, you gotta, you gotta be like directed to the ex. Oh, you know, you'd said that you had that thing that we can, you Know something.

0:30:45 Eli: Gotta pretend to choke don't you have that thing going okay

0:30:58 Thomas: Easy, easy. Now imagine you don't do that. Imagine you don'T do that, that was just phase fucking one. That's just extra credit for that guy. You DON'T do that Okay. You freeze up. I get it. Not everyone can think super fast. I GET IT. You're like, oh yeah, maybe what the moment you're away from the kid needs to be the conversation. Hey, we can't, we can't there's no way we got to figure out a way to not do this there's no way and and or like the new wife shouldn't be finding out later and then calling like that's all that's all preventable yeah this

0:30:58 Tom: This is crazy. This is insane. Whoever

0:31:19 Eli: You get us a day later you exist this dude existed for 24 hours and was like yeah I hope the lions really take it this week oh babe I forgot to tell you I invited I invited the mother of my children who who you're desperately attempting to replace, I invited her on vacation. You know that moment where you were really hoping to connect with my kids in a way you never had before? It's going to be a little bit trickier because their mommy, who fed them from her breast and loved them more than anyone ever has or ever will, will be there. But you know what? You go ahead and try and bond over reruns of the Gilmore Girls, Ashley. I'm sure it's going gonna go fucking great. I'm sure you're gonna connect exactly the same womb their real blood mother who pushed them

0:31:28 Thomas: Guy sucks what

0:31:54 Tom: Look fundamentally,

0:32:13 Eli: From her womb into the world she's

0:32:17 Tom: Whoever causes that, and this is, I think this is true of almost any scenario with very few counterexamples, examples, whoever caused the problem is the most responsible for it and is inherently the biggest asshole. Like you cannot be a bigger asshole.

0:32:30 Thomas: Are you gonna sit there as a dude and be like oh I need my mom to fix this problem tom I

0:32:35 Tom: Can't be a bigger asshole than the person who causes the problem. You can't in almost any scenario because you didn't respond to a problem that you didn't create. Whoever causes the problem, the proximal cause is always the biggest asshole because that's that's the first domino.

0:32:39 Thomas: Disagree I think you can't if because absolutely not. I think that's a simplistic way of looking at causality, Tom. I I think you could cause something that is pretty preventable. Cut, let's say, by the way, maybe the mother -in -law, maybe she's like, oh, I shouldn't have said that. Maybe she's slip of the tongue first, an easily fixable thing because there's more time for the mom.

0:33:06 Tom: But then we're giving we're her an out for thoughtlessness, but not giving the the response,

0:33:11 Eli: Trying to keep her family together

0:33:12 Thomas: No, no. Tom, I'm using it

0:33:13 Tom: Her family is already not together. That's there's a new family.

0:33:19 Thomas: As an example to say that for action that causes something could be, oh, shit, thoughtless thing. The dude has all day to fucking work on this. So it's one thing to make a mistake.

0:33:27 Tom: So wait a minute. Let's, let's, Let's pull this apart. So

0:33:28 Thomas: I was even giving the dude the credit if he couldn't think of it in the moment. I was going to say, fine, maybe maybe the dude. Oh, he doesn't think I'm going to do it. He doesn't have a good answer in the movement. Fine. He still has all fucking day to fix this all day. To fix it.

0:33:40 Tom: But like, there's nothing for him to fix if somebody hadn't already caused the problem. I guess that's right. Like I, I, yeah. Don't So think you are more responsible for fixing the problem the best way way than the person is who caused the problem to begin with. I can't, I'm, I can'T understand that idea.

0:34:01 Thomas: Can. Let's come up with a hypothetical. I'm at a movie theater.

0:34:04 Tom: Like this is a perfectly good hypothetical.

0:34:06 Thomas: No, no, we

0:34:06 Tom: We don't have to move to a different analogy.

0:34:07 Thomas: Do because I tried this one. It didn't work. Spill a drink and I'm like, oh, I spilled my drink. And you're the janitor and you're like, all right, I'll come over and do it. You come over and instead of mopping it up, you put motor oil on it and put a banana peel on it. And you're like, there, it's clean. And then someone falls and breaks their neck. You'd be like, well, if they didn't spill it, I wouldn't.

0:34:10 Eli: I a less controversial example and you shrug you

0:34:29 Tom: Well, that's, that'S okay. All right.

0:34:31 Thomas: I'm exaggerating for comedic effect.

0:34:31 Eli: For your 25 year old wife to

0:34:33 Thomas: But when something is more easily fixable than that caused it. If the way that it was caused is something that I

0:34:34 Eli: Find out trying

0:34:35 Tom: I don'T know that it was more fixable. I don'T, I don't know that I agree with that here. I DON'T think that it WAS more fixible. I think she put him in a shitty situation in front of his kids.

0:34:42 Thomas: Think it was. Agreed. Agreed

0:34:48 Tom: I think he reacted badly to it in the moment yeah which is understandable like he's got all these people standing around him he reacted bad I'm totally badly that's why I'm I'm saying he's an asshole but like the conversation like the mother -in -law dropping that like hey why don't you that's cut that's not an accident that's a thoughtful thing

0:34:49 Eli: To get her family together gonna coward oh

0:34:49 Thomas: With that. Agreed to that. Yeah. That could be an accident. Oh, so you guys don't have them. OK, Tom, I don't want to commit a hate crime against you and your Florida mom. But if you don't, maybe some of this could be my bias of having a mom that just says the weirdest things all the time. Time and then you have to kind of like, oh, fuck. All right.

0:35:09 Eli: No that was on purpose oh this

0:35:11 Tom: That's not a reaction to something that's not a reaction sure

0:35:28 Eli: Tom's got a mom apologetic going here's the thing sometimes your mom does things that look abusive and sound abusive but they're not because she tried her best that's

0:35:39 Thomas: He's saying the mom is the asshole. I think it's different. I think my calibration is like, yeah, OK, well, moms are going to mom like you're going to have that might be my bias. I'm admitting maybe this.

0:35:47 Eli: What I'm saying you're a mom apologist a well -known mom apologist Thomas Smith

0:35:50 Thomas: Well, yeah. Kind of. No. Oh, you said, Tom. Oh OK. I thought you said Tom was saying that you're saying I'm the mom of the pop. Oh, okay.

0:35:56 Eli: Thomas you're the mom apologist mompologist

0:35:58 Thomas: I must have misunderstood.

0:35:59 Eli: You're the William Lane Craig of moms you're

0:36:00 Tom: Mean

0:36:00 Thomas: I mean, in a way it's worse because it's like taking for granted that my mom's always going to say something weird and stupid that I have to fix. It's not a flattering position vis -a -vis moms.

0:36:14 Eli: A mom pessimist pessimum yeah

0:36:16 Thomas: Yeah. So maybe that's my bias. I don't know, Tom. What do you think?

0:36:16 Eli: She

0:36:19 Tom: I think like people who cause problems are responsible for the problems they cause like and having a history of causing problems doesn't make you less responsible it actually makes you more responsible like you have a bad trait where you were like yeah everywhere I go So I cause problems. What? I don't even understand that idea of like, well, yeah, so she's shitty, but she's shitty a lot. So like, I got to give her.

0:36:34 Eli: Tried her best Tom Thomas's

0:36:42 Thomas: But No, it's more just kind of clueless like sometimes maybe there's a mom in your life who just kind of says the thing that makes sense in the moment the kids are there there's like oh this would make the kids happy but it's kind of Clueless about how obviously fucking weird that is

0:36:57 Eli: Mom just sitting there Disneyland cake for dinner two Two Christmases! Thomas just shrugged his shoulders. All right, I guess there's two Christmasses

0:37:10 Thomas: All right well anyway we'll have the real conversation after my mom is gone

0:37:12 Eli: This year. When Grandma goes home, we'll talk about whether or not there's two Christmist kids. See, that's what I was going to say, that my wish has gone from this happening to Tom, which is still a pretty big wish for me, if Jesus is listening, to this conversation happening to Thomas, because Thomas would so clearly just go like, oh, no, I don't want that. Anyways why do you think they always put those turkeys out on the video they always because when you get three strikes it's called a turkey all right well there you go ask an answer I thought it was a thanksgiving thing I don't want you to come on my vacation I just want to say that one more time she's

0:37:48 Tom: So in the few minutes we have left, there's there's one last part because we're never going to agree on who's the biggest asshole, because I'm right. And you guys can't be persuaded.

0:37:55 Eli: Trying to get her family back together

0:37:56 Tom: So, I, want to focus on the other part because I see this all the time in comment sections of stories like this. And she fucking drops it in there and it makes me fucking crazy where she says in here. Uh it would make my kids happy I was willing to do anything for them you see that same commentary all the time in these sort of like family dynamics that involve step parents where people will like cross over boundaries and be like yeah but the kid was smiling when I did it the kid wasn't smiling and she like clearly wants wants to be a part of a family that is now all her ex -family.

0:38:32 Tom: Otherwise, there's no way she would go on this because her kids were already going. They were already goin' on this trip. They were not gonna be held back from this trip They were gonna go with Grandma and fuckin' Dad, presumably. They were goin 'on the trip from the fuckin' jump. They were going on the trip, and she's like, you know what? If it makes my kids happy, fuck it. I see this shit constantly, where it's like Like, every decision that should be made should be made about the kids and what makes the kids maximally happy in every situation.

0:39:02 Thomas: Well, and it has a feel of like religion where it's like, coincidentally, that's also the thing you want to do. You know?

0:39:08 Eli: Yeah it's just so happy my god agrees with me on everything yeah well

0:39:12 Thomas: My kid wants me to hate trans people, so.

0:39:14 Eli: It's crazy it's crazy how this 2,000 year old book has all the things my kid wants in it uh so this brings up a question that just occurred to me right part of this must be that she wants to spend the holidays with her kids right and so then my question becomes because you're the only one in that situation Tom Tom what the fuck do you do when you don't get to spend do you spend the holidays with your kids you get the holidays for your kids right ah what the fuck to you do when you don't get to see your kids on the holidays

0:39:26 Thomas: Yeah, that I was just thinking that, too.

0:39:38 Tom: We alternate. So I get every Thanksgiving.

0:39:43 Thomas: Jesus Christ.

0:39:44 Tom: You just pick it.

0:39:45 Thomas: Kill yourself.

0:39:45 Tom: Well, so this is normal for me. This is how I grew up my whole life. So we never celebrated Christmas.

0:39:46 Eli: That's true oh

0:39:48 Thomas: That's why Eli and I couldn't do this. What are you doing for the holidays ah killing myself yeah uh

0:39:55 Eli: I I told vous about this fight I have with my friends right so one one of our friend group one yes one of my friend group is going through a really bad divorce right now and he's he's not getting custody as the kids he's gonna see his kids every three weeks or whatever it is and I from my heart in a place of vulnerability mentioned that if I ever got divorced I would kill myself and

0:39:59 Tom: What jesus

0:39:59 Thomas: Where they tried to stop you from killing yourself oh god jesus what's

0:40:10 Tom: What

0:40:16 Thomas: No all right eli's the asshole we can all agree Eli's the asshole

0:40:21 Tom: What this is so supportive

0:40:21 Eli: Everybody was like you would you would kill yourself if you got divorced and I was like yeah what am I supposed to do get a one -bedroom apartment in New Jersey and just fucking hang out for my every three weekends and they were like that's what you're supposed to definitely not

0:40:34 Thomas: My god Eli Oh my God dude Okay I think we got it Eli's The Biggest Asshole everyone We cracked it Eli's number one

0:40:41 Tom: Eli wins the mi yes eli

0:40:42 Eli: I'm just trying to get my family back together I

0:40:46 Thomas: I love too that you clarified That it wasn't like oh That slip of the tongue where it's ah fuck I said that and I regret it Eli is like No he's like what did you say And then Eli goes on a 10 minute rant Just doubling down

0:40:46 Tom: A thousand percent the asshole that's not your family going to write it out for you

0:40:59 Eli: Waited patiently for my turn to talk, and when I did, that was the advice I volunteered.

0:41:03 Thomas: Hey you're like hey you recording this make sure you're recording this okay here's why you should kill yourself

0:41:12 Tom: Just come to my tie a noose in your single apartment seminar afterwards. It'll be, it'll be great. It's good. It's gut. You guys, it's, we're going to drink brown liquor and tie nooses. That's what we're gonna do.

0:41:20 Eli: No, I go, it's okay, I'm not sad, I got board games. I go every Thursday, it was a good time, absolutely not. That's like being like, oh, they turned the Nintendo off, but I sit there still moving the buttons for another 10 or 15 minutes and I let me say let me say they've already turned off the podcast but let me say I know there are people who live full and happy lives after divorce I think that rules awesome for them I am not one of them there's also people who fucking get in horrible accidents and like go on to do amazing things they're para olympians I'm not one of them either I'm just letting you know that if it ends it fucking ends I've got one route down the bowling alley and it's a strike or a gutter ball if you know what I'm saying well

0:41:43 Thomas: We've already got several emails yeah yeah never doing the not custody that's the part I could like you know I could see different levels of this thing not custody of kids unexcited I'm with you on that but eli um maybe don't bring that up like right with a guy if you know one of your friends it's like still

0:42:26 Eli: He wasn't there we were talking behind his back I mean would I have said it to him maybe

0:42:30 Thomas: It's a little harsh yeah you shouldn't have dialed him in, though, like you did on

0:42:35 Eli: No it's true I texted him afterwards because I was like hey I've been thinking all right gentlemen before we go are you ready for your boomer joke joke women

0:42:39 Tom: Jesus Christ.

0:42:51 Thomas: No, aren't we done with this?

0:42:53 Tom: No let's keep I like this let's keep doing the boomers they're horrible

0:42:57 Eli: Are refusing to sleep with men now that trump got re -elected apparently my wife predicted the election two years ago I ripped

0:43:09 Thomas: Jesus fucking Christ.

0:43:14 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, tom smith who also wrote and recorded the intro music which is used with his permission this podcast is a production of daddy issues llc copyright 2022 all rights reserved

0:43:57 Eli: Rip into it oh wait no this is too early the William Lane Craig of moms you're come on my special vacay get the fuck grow up I for dinner two

0:44:08 Thomas: Shut up yeah