DOD158: Yep, Still Micro-Cheating

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and utter dependence. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired.

0:00:22 Clip: Telling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:28 Clip: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that, forgot to, record a, a second intro, for the, two -part show, that we did, so, just me, hello, gentlemen, you're not there, yeah, I'm just recording this, like a week later,

0:00:45 Thomas: You know, the only things worse than not recording an intro, is not didn't tell us anything of what's happening. This is part two of 21 examples of micro -cheating, a fun list that we have even more fun going through on this part two. Make sure you've listened to part one, otherwise you're just going to be lost. You won't have any idea who any of us are, any of the characters are. Of course, the only thing really worse than this horrible intro is the auto -ads. That's right, the things we have absolutely no control over, so don't email or write in about it. I mean, you can, but there's nothing I can do about it, we those at patreon .com slash dear old dads and the bonus with Heath. You definitely want that bonus with Heath. It was really good. All said, let's get to the real episode. Part two of examples of micro cheating after this annoying ad. Okay. And so now we're getting, here we go. Number 10, telling someone you're single when you aren't.

0:01:40 Thomas: Obviously. I love that this, it started from micro cheating to now just, just cheating, just macro.

0:01:41 Tom: The fuck of course what

0:01:48 Thomas: That's just called cheating.

0:01:46 Eli: Is that's just cheating

0:01:48 Tom: The shit Yeah. Is there controversy around that where someone's Like, I totally thought that would be cool, baby. I don't know like I, right?

0:01:51 Thomas: I know. Hey, you could have had a list of nine things, you know, is that the problem? Are we still doing the 10 that you need 21 things for some reason? Eleven, sending someone photos of yourself. Now, what kind of normal photos? Could normal photos be fine?

0:01:58 Tom: Yeah.

0:01:59 Eli: Yeah yeah Normal photos are fine.

0:02:08 Thomas: OK, I don't know.

0:02:09 Eli: Sexy photos are not fine.

0:02:10 Thomas: Are normal photos fine? Like, do you get like is that would that be weird?

0:02:14 Tom: Are you sending photos of somebody directly for, like, if it's not like a work thing where I'm like here's my fucking professional headshots." What am I sending? That's weird, right? Like,

0:02:17 Thomas: Yeah, that's that's what I'm saying. You don't take photos, Tom.

0:02:25 Eli: Let's live in the real world, right? I'm just hanging out one day and I'm like, I miss my friend Haley. Haven't seen Haley for a couple of years. I wonder how things are going. Just send her a little selfie. Hey, girl. Gee, a little peace sign in the corner.

0:02:39 Tom: That would be so weird. I wouldn't be mad about it, but it would be, that

0:02:39 Thomas: That's that is pretty weird.

0:02:41 Eli: Don't think that's weird. I'm going to do it right now. I's not

0:02:45 Tom: Would be like a genuinely, like, it would Be such a weird thing to do. Like, it Would be less weird if you took like a video of yourself talking. It Was like, just chit -chatting, want to catch up with you or whatever, but just like sending a selfie or something. It seems like a weird Thing to do, I'm not saying it's flirt. I don't, what it? What are you trying to get from this communication?

0:03:03 Eli: Micro cheating. It's insane is what it is.

0:03:04 Thomas: Yeah, yeah,

0:03:05 Tom: Yes. I that's, I guess that's where I'm struggling. Like, is that cheating? I don't, it's fucking bonkers, right? I don'T know. Like that's a fucking crazy person thing to do like

0:03:10 Eli: Yeah.

0:03:06 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. The only thing I think of is if you're you're good friends with somebody and you, something funny happens maybe like, like there's a funny, yeah.

0:03:19 Tom: A reaction picture or something.

0:03:20 Thomas: Like, Oh, I saw this funny thing.

0:03:21 Tom: Yeah. Yeah, that's nothing.

0:03:23 Thomas: Maybe, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. But all

0:03:18 Eli: Yeah. I

0:03:24 Tom: Let me put it this way. I've never sent Cecil a picture of me ever in 30 years. What would I do that for

0:03:30 Thomas: That does clear it up pretty quickly. You

0:03:31 Tom: Right

0:03:31 Eli: Should send Cecil a picture of myself, right?

0:03:33 Thomas: They say that to men who, have who, good boundaries with women's bodies in public. And they're like, "Hey, would you, if there's a dude in the the concert in front of you, would you touch their hips as you moved past them, or is that a thing you just do with women?"

0:03:43 Tom: For Women, right?

0:03:45 Thomas: And it very clearly is like, oh yeah, that's that would not happen. Yeah, you wouldn't do that. That

0:03:46 Tom: Yeah. So you go Like years of my closest friendship, and I've never just been like, feeling cute, snap, and sent one over to Cecil. Right, that's

0:03:57 Eli: I love that so king I would love that så much

0:03:58 Thomas: Would be great. He's never sent you a picture of any of his swords though, like just, it's just a sword pick, just like either

0:04:04 Tom: Pork sword or regular

0:04:00 Eli: Oh, either I understand you guys aren't into the pork, but yeah, he's never sent you a video of him doing a sword fight and been like got a perfect score

0:04:11 Tom: Sure but but that's not that's, I'm saying, like, that's like, I've sent it's, it's curved and up and to the right. Now it Yeah.

0:04:15 Eli: Yeah

0:04:17 Thomas: Is it more of a scimitar, or no, sorry, Yeah.

0:04:22 Tom: I, I think it's different if you're sending somebody a picture of you doing something, like, I do think that that's fine.

0:04:27 Thomas: Yeah, whereas I'm

0:04:22 Eli: I'm gonna send you guys pictures every day of just me with my tongue out being like, feeling silly. Just a silly little guy.

0:04:35 Thomas: That's, that's criminal behavior. I don't it just is weird.

0:04:39 Thomas: I can't, yeah, no, but I'm, I'm, I, I'm think, I totally agree, but I'm like, oh wait, but I've on occasion sent normal pictures to somebody, and I'm like, oh yeah, but I flirting with them, that's I flirting

0:04:50 Tom: Yeah. Right. Right.

0:04:51 Eli: Me. There's flirting. Okay, yeah. That's what I thought.

0:04:52 Thomas: Yeah. And I like

0:04:53 Tom: You're like Yeah. Actually that does prove the point

0:04:53 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Like I wouldn't do that with, you know, Cecil or whatever the Cecil equivalents like, oh yeah. Cause it's, it's flirting. Yeah, that's fair. Having, oh, here's an interesting one. Well, not really.

0:05:04 Eli: Sex with someone.

0:05:05 Thomas: Yeah! Repeatedly, constant, regular sexism. Having secret friendships. What What the fuck would that be? Secret friendships.

0:05:06 Tom: Yeah, looks like an emotional cheating, maybe, right?

0:05:15 Eli: The secret is the problem. Again, we didn't we do this earlier? The secret is the secret is the problem.

0:05:17 Thomas: Yeah. Secret anything, I guess.

0:05:21 Eli: Yeah.

0:05:17 Tom: Right. Having another family three counties over. Like what? Yeah. Is it cheating if I'm a trauma long distance trucker and I'm away from home? Yeah, it's fucking cheating. Like, what do you what is happening right now?

0:05:24 Eli: Yeah.

0:05:25 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. But I also, I think I'm interested in that one because it's so weird. Like, what does is that? Is that a real thing or are we just trying to fill out a list? It's like a secret.

0:05:40 Tom: Well, all right. So there is a scenario where that's not cheating. Right. But it's not a healthy scenario. So There are people that are very controlling in relationships.

0:05:44 Thomas: Hmm. Okay. Tell us what you're doing, Tom. No, I'm just kidding.

0:05:49 Tom: Imagine if you've got some guy who's very controlling in a relationship because it's very often the directionality, although not always.

0:05:52 Thomas: Hmm.

0:05:54 Eli: Won't even let Eli send you a cute little picture of himself.

0:05:58 Tom: They don't like that that their girl has a friend of some kind, and so they forbid that friendship, but that friendship nonetheless continues, that then makes that become a secret friendship. Yeah.

0:06:02 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, also you should just cheat on that guy. Like if they suck that much.

0:06:10 Tom: You should just leave that guy that guy sucks. And you

0:06:13 Thomas: Yeah.

0:06:13 Tom: Should leave. Yeah.

0:06:14 Thomas: Leave, cheat, whatever.

0:06:10 Eli: Yeah, I think we should, you know, take into account our own privilege here, because, you know, that that can be a dangerous thing to do to some men. So I think we should give a little bit safer advice: you should murder that Guy. Cops

0:06:25 Tom: Right.

0:06:25 Thomas: Yes. Poison them in their sleep. Yes, no, they the only way cops ever solve murders is someone tells them what happened.

0:06:26 Tom: Yeah, that's

0:06:28 Eli: Really can't solve murders when ladies do them, just so you know. So Just don't tell anybody.

0:06:35 Thomas: They literally be like, oh, we weren't going to, you know, the, the fucking guy who tried to kill Trump, the second guy, they only found him because some lady fucking was like, oh yeah, he went there and he drove that car Yeah.

0:06:35 Eli: Yeah, exactly. Trying

0:06:46 Tom: Went that away, right?

0:06:48 Thomas: I And She wrote down the license plate or some shit. It's like, man if only that lady wasn't there, you know? Yeah, that's how they solve crimes.

0:06:48 Tom: Yeah. Right. Yes. You did. Yeah. But Yeah, if you've got a secret relay, if you're not a secret buddy for some other reason, like I just feel like secrets are a big deal, like secrets are just, I'm trying to think of a healthy relationship with secrets that are something other than, hey, I'm working on a present and I need you to help me, like, yeah.

0:06:56 Thomas: Yeah. It's not good. Yeah. Yeah.

0:07:13 Thomas: Yeah.

0:07:13 Tom: What?

0:07:12 Eli: And Mrs. Smith, Spider

0:07:14 Thomas: Did you watch that new Mr. and Mrs. Smith? That's really good. The show. Yeah.

0:07:14 Eli: -Man. No. I love Donald Clever, but yeah, yeah.

0:07:19 Thomas: It's really good. I like it a lot. Anyway. Uh, yes, that's weird. 13. Okay. Here's, is one where I think perhaps the Tom and the Eli Thomas can maybe have a discussion. Discussing your intimate desires with someone who isn't your partner. Sex talk, any sex talk at all.

0:07:19 Eli: He's great Yeah, uh No.

0:07:37 Tom: The fuck are you doing that for? What in the shit is happening? No.

0:07:39 Eli: No, no, no, no, that's very much that's

0:07:43 Thomas: Eli, you do that on this show though, like you in

0:07:46 Eli: Yeah, but now can you imagine someone in public being like, hey, Eli, how that thing do? I would turn into a rocket ship and blast off into space with how little I want to have that conversation.

0:07:54 Thomas: Public. I thought there was going to be an intersection with the sex positivity thing, like people being open about their whatever, you know?

0:08:06 Eli: Oh I hate that.

0:08:07 Thomas: Oh, OK. Yeah, I forgot. You totally hate that.

0:08:09 Tom: Yeah. No. Don't make Don't Look, don't, people don't want to hear about your fucking dream you had last night, and they don't want to hear about like how many fucking bottles of lube you have sitting around next to your bed. Like, nobody wants

0:08:10 Eli: I hate it, but

0:08:15 Thomas: Well, that's fair. I want to know how many they recovered from. What's his name? Yeah.

0:08:22 Tom: That. Yeah.

0:08:23 Eli: I want to be clear I want to hear sex talk from people I want to have sex with.

0:08:24 Tom: Right. That's why I use that. Right.

0:08:28 Thomas: Right. OK.

0:08:29 Eli: Right? That's a form of flirtation.

0:08:29 Thomas: Maybe once again, I'm making that mistake.

0:08:31 Eli: Yeah, that's a form of flirtation.

0:08:31 Tom: Yeah. That That like It's, it, that's clearly like Like opening a door to a kind of conversation to build a sort of relationship, right? Like, what in the fuck else reason would there be to have have that conversation?

0:08:32 Thomas: Oh, yeah. Forgot. Yeah. No, for sure. Well, I think there are a lot of listeners we have that are in the sex positivity. Like, it's I'll be honest, talking about sex is like a nothing to me. And so often, if someone ever initiates any conversation in that direction, I'm like, yeah, cool, whatever. Talk about sex in a way like it's It's not a thing that I see. I don't have a character.

0:09:01 Eli: Air, not in character Right, but I do.

0:09:06 Tom: Eli's like, wait, I don't understand that at all.

0:09:07 Thomas: A character,

0:09:08 Eli: Right. I'm a character, right? So off air, not in character, started talking to you about sex, you'd be like, all right, well, we're just having a car, and I'm talking about, like, not like a, don't you think it's important that we educate? I'm talking like a person being like, you know what, I'm into spoons up the butt, and you'd be like, tell me more.

0:09:08 Thomas: Yeah.

0:09:25 Thomas: Now I do want to know more spoons, huh?

0:09:27 Eli: I want to come on Serious Inquiries Only. We can talk about that. Tom.

0:09:29 Thomas: Spoons, yeah, mm

0:09:30 Tom: That, that to me falls into the, I like, it's fine from a positivity standpoint. If you want to have that conversation, I'm just saying personally on the receipt side, I do not want to talk about sports. I do want to hear about fucking how good the last Marvel movie was. I do care what your dream last night was. And I do no care what you like in the sack.

0:09:40 Thomas: -hmm. Jeez, you don't Have to hit all of Eli's kinks in one.

0:09:51 Tom: Cause I'm not fucking you. I Right? I don't care that you like spoons up the butt because I'm never sticking a spoon up your ass. That's weird. This is just like, it feels exhibitionist

0:09:58 Eli: Well, exact

0:09:59 Thomas: This is a lot for me to process in one time.

0:10:01 Eli: Can I take a step pruder than Tom, perhaps, which is

0:10:04 Thomas: Mm,

0:10:05 Tom: To me. I don'T know if that's prudery. I'm just saying I'm not interested in it. Like I'm NOT offended by it in any way.

0:10:07 Thomas: Mm.

0:10:05 Eli: Right well here's my thing, right? I am offended by that, right? If you initiate sex, sex talk with me, I'm that is not a, you have not gotten consent from me to engage in that kind of conversation.

0:10:14 Thomas: Yeah, that's fair. Ooh, yeah

0:10:20 Tom: I actually don't disagree with that. I think it's, I think really, really often that kind of talk really accomplishes one of two goals, right? It's either a form of flirtation, which I think mostly is, or it's a kind of exhibitionism, right, which is like I like to like make people squirm. I liketo challenge people's preconceptions. I'm personally getting off on it. Whatever the reasoning is, it's exhibitionist adjacent at the very least. And I'm like, yeah, I don't I t want to know that about you. Like there's some things about people that are just like, yeah, we can keep private things, be private. That's fine. It's not because I'm uncomfortable. It's because I' m bored.

0:10:59 Eli: Right.

0:10:59 Tom: Like that's not interesting. I' N T fucking you. I don't care what you like. I don'T care what gets your dick hard or gets your vagina wet. You know, it's not interesting.

0:11:04 Eli: I like the whole thing is consent. Right? And so if you start talking about sex before we have established that kind of, I mean, this is, you know, this, some of the me too stuff that's come out, it's like, you're just not supposed to initiate those kinds of conversations with people.

0:11:08 Thomas: Right.

0:11:16 Tom: Yeah.

0:11:20 Thomas: Right, but why are you interpreting it in that way? Like, you're interpreting a conversation in a way where it's like you've assaulted someone with a conversation. I'm just wondering.

0:11:21 Tom: Yeah, in

0:11:29 Eli: I mean, I, That's how I feel. I feel like, yeah, that's like a violation of consent.

0:11:32 Thomas: There's no possible conversation about sex with a person that's not your partner. Is that what you're saying? Can't be done.

0:11:37 Tom: Specific individual, like, here are the things that turn me on kind of ways. So we're not talking about sex, like conceptually, right?

0:11:42 Thomas: No, I'm juste saying it can't been done. Like, oh, oh. Because you're specifically focusing on, like, it's your intimate desires.

0:11:50 Eli: You're, yeah.

0:11:51 Thomas: That's fair.

0:11:49 Tom: Desires and interests, right, that's the focus

0:11:52 Thomas: I got distracted by thinking you were talking just general sex stuff. So maybe that's on.

0:11:52 Tom: Of the conversation, right. No, no, no. Like, I

0:11:56 Thomas: That might be on me.

0:11:56 Tom: Think when we're talking about

0:11:56 Eli: No, obviously you could talk about sex,

0:11:57 Tom: Like the things that here are, the things things that turn me on.

0:11:58 Thomas: Yeah. Okay. That's my fault. Yeah.

0:11:58 Eli: Right?

0:12:00 Tom: Yeah.

0:12:00 Thomas: My fault.

0:12:01 Tom: That's not a conversation that just gets had without some

0:12:01 Thomas: I lost track of it. Yeah, that's not. But guess point the is there's conversation can exist between two individuals, right? Like somebody can have that in a way that's Not an assault is all I'm saying. Like, I feel like that.

0:12:12 Tom: A hundred percent. And look, look, and close friends could have that, right? They could be like, yeah, you know, like, here's this thing that like really turns me on and like, how do I approach this with my spouse? Might be a really rational and good and decent conversation.

0:12:14 Eli: With affirmative consent, absolutely.

0:12:13 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, do I put the spoons next to the bed?

0:12:29 Tom: Right. Like, I just want to acknowledge that. Like there's plenty of reasons.

0:12:31 Eli: Tom, I would like you to think of a number that It would take me to pay you to, next time you are chatting with Cecil something Italian, Italian, bring up one of your kinks and ask him how to approach it

0:12:33 Tom: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

0:12:44 Thomas: Ask him how to approach it, yeah.

0:12:45 Tom: Is not a conversation I would have. I'm just opening this up for the audience so we don't get like a thousand Facebook messages like.

0:12:48 Eli: Look,

0:12:48 Thomas: I I was reacting to Eli's absolutist language, like there's no possible way two humans could have that discussion in a way that's not like assault. I'm just like well

0:12:58 Eli: With, with affirmative consent

0:12:58 Tom: But he's saying without some consent involved.

0:12:59 Eli: Absolutely right

0:13:00 Thomas: Yeah, but but even getting, bringing it up, like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know the way you worded it seemed weird to me, but maybe I'm wrong, yeah.

0:13:00 Tom: Right. Yeah. I don't know that consent has to be. Say, like, maybe controversial. I don'T think so. Like consent can be implicitly understood rather than necessarily explicitly given. Right? Right. So, like, it's not like every time you go to initiate sex with somebody, you're saying out loud, now I am going to initiate sex with you. Do I have your that would be insane.

0:13:12 Thomas: Yeah.

0:13:26 Thomas: No.

0:13:26 Tom: Right. Like, that's Not how it works. There's implicit understandings that are part of how we relate to other people, which I think are fair to work and operate on. And we do that. Right? Like, if you don't have at least an implicit understanding where you're just like, "Oh, hey, so how was the day yesterday at work?" And you're like, "I really like a good spoon up my ass," you know Jim That's what I really love, Jim, spoon up the old took us. That's my deal.

0:13:26 Thomas: Yeah.

0:13:27 Eli: Love.

0:13:44 Eli: A good spoon up my ass I'll also say this like, I think a lot of guys, and look, I'm not a dick pic sender, I don't understand a dick pic senders, right? Think I'm a dick pick sender, and I think that's a good thing. I think a lot, a lot guys send dick pics because they think the conversation has gone that direction, you know? I think they think well

0:13:49 Tom: Yeah

0:14:05 Thomas: Or they just literally send them first thing that also happens but

0:14:07 Eli: Yeah I mean I think there's the, like, psychosis of assaulting people with pictures of your genitals and like

0:14:08 Thomas: Yeah yeah yeah

0:14:11 Tom: I just say I think it's a way to bully people. Personally, yeah.

0:14:12 Eli: Yeah that's that's insane, right? But I'm talking about, like, people for whom a conversation has been like flirty and then they send a dick pic, which lots of female friends have expressed to me as a thing that they are. Right.

0:14:14 Tom: Yeah.

0:14:20 Thomas: Oh yeah There's an entire spectrum of dick pics. There's no shortage of dudes who send dick pics, so there's a shortage of reasons and timings for on which they send dick pic, yeah.

0:14:28 Eli: Right exactly Exactly. So for me, right, because I know so many men are clueless, right, and I am a man, I think the reason why my language sounds so absolute and so Me Too is because I am so wary of how clueless men can be in those scenarios. And I never want to be one of those men right now.

0:14:47 Tom: Totally.

0:14:49 Thomas: Fair. Yeah. Right.

0:14:50 Eli: I will say, like I'm a person who makes jokes about sex a lot, you pretty much.

0:14:55 Tom: Different.

0:14:55 Eli: Which, yeah, but, and in conversation, right? In personal conversation, I make sex jokes on a pretty regular basis. But that would never be genuine revelation of my sex life or a genuine conversation about what I'm interested in sexually.

0:14:56 Tom: Totally different. Yep.

0:14:56 Thomas: Yeah. Sure.

0:15:10 Thomas: Or it would be so disguised we wouldn't know for sure the spoons thing. Now I'm pretty convinced that's real, yeah.

0:15:11 Eli: Right. Right. You go. Yeah.

0:15:15 Tom: That's Real. It's canon.

0:15:17 Thomas: It's definitely Tom that's, that's real. Right? 100 % Yeah, now what kind of teaspoons are we, are we working from the outside in on the table setting

0:15:19 Tom: Canon Yeah. That's 100 canon. Yeah.

0:15:17 Eli: Pull -ups. Mean, eventually you can work your way up to ladles. Yeah, if you're into...

0:15:26 Tom: Ladles.

0:15:25 Thomas: Yeah ladles Oh man, but salad serving one, that's like those giant ones, um this is where I can't, I'm excited, I'm so glad we got here. Number 14, following

0:15:32 Eli: Ladle, ladle, ladder. Don't tell us about your sex life.

0:15:39 Thomas: Following inappropriate accounts on Instagram or other social media. So good.

0:15:42 Eli: Oh boy. I sure hope this isn't cheating otherwise I gotta, hey, can I come stay with you guys for a little while? Oh

0:15:45 Thomas: Yeah, here we go. So good, I this because this is so obviously nothing, but I wait for Tom to tell us why the floor is lava on this one.

0:15:55 Eli: There's no

0:15:56 Tom: Well okay hold on, hold on, I do want to, like, because what's account?

0:15:56 Eli: Fucking sure

0:16:01 Thomas: They don't allow porn on Insta, right? So it's got to be like, on Instagram? I don't think they do. No, they're, they do not.

0:16:03 Eli: They do they sure do. Oh yeah okay

0:16:07 Tom: Right. Well, let's start at the top where I think we would all agree and then work our way down to where you guys won't agree with me.

0:16:09 Thomas: Don' t think they d. do okay disagree

0:16:14 Tom: Top would be following sex workers.

0:16:13 Eli: I

0:16:14 Thomas: No I'm just kidding as to like actually like make appointments with them, yeah oh

0:16:20 Tom: So on Instagram, I just read an article about this the other day. On Instagram, there are people who are offering sex services, right?

0:16:27 Thomas: Yeah, okay, yeah, if it's actual, like, for a thing to happen in meat space, then yes

0:16:30 Tom: So yeah. So that's why I'm starting at, at the top, like with it like everybody would agree, right? Yeah. Okay, so

0:16:32 Thomas: Yeah yep, yep 100 what about next is what, an Only Fans model or something? Well

0:16:35 Eli: Wait, wait following those people is cheating because

0:16:39 Tom: The fuck are you following a prostitute on Instagram for like

0:16:42 Thomas: With Tom, on this one, because if you're just following someone who doesn't, Only Fans, that's different than, like, oh, I'm going to follow this actual sex worker in my area because I could make an appointment with somebody.

0:16:51 Tom: What is the purpose or intent of following someone? Why

0:16:54 Eli: You want to see their pictures because

0:16:55 Thomas: Do you want to see, yeah, what they post? Because there might be boobs.

0:16:55 Tom: Do you want of a of a sex

0:16:58 Thomas: There could be boobs, yeah.

0:16:57 Eli: 'Cause they got, cause

0:16:58 Tom: Worker who offers explicit sex services what I'm saying like I'm starting at the time right like I don't believe that that is unrelated to your desire to hire that sex worker

0:17:00 Eli: They have a nice,

0:17:01 Thomas: No, I am with Tom on this one. I am Tom on his one. Yeah, 100%. I can't think of an excuse for that. Like I can't, yeah no.

0:17:08 Tom: Right in, that's why I'm starting there. That's insane, right?

0:17:13 Thomas: Eli, if Eli just agrees he is just wrong. That's weird. No that's weird, but what's next?

0:17:13 Tom: Okay. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, so, and I think that this is negotiable for different couples, and they're yeah

0:17:22 Thomas: Yeah, is next like the OnlyFans model? Model

0:17:16 Eli: Which

0:17:23 Tom: So next would be following, like, Only Fans or some other sex worker, where their sex work is not physical, right? Where you're not going to engage with that sex work probably in a physical way. We're not gonna meet eat up, et cetera. Right. Then it would go all the way down to, like, you know, hot chicks. You don't know. Right, just hot, random, you were random guys or whatever. You don't know. And I think every couple gets to decide what their level of comfort there is.

0:17:42 Eli: Those are cheating? What's yours?

0:17:47 Tom: Would not follow an account of just because I thought they were attractive or whatever. And I would be unhappy if Haley did that, too. I'm not saying, though, that that's prescriptive. That's descriptive of my relationship.

0:17:44 Thomas: Tom Right?

0:18:00 Tom: So I want to be clear about that. Our relationship, that would be a thing for either of us to do to be like, yeah, I'm just I'm trolling around to like, like, you know, find hot chicks and following them so I can see more hot chicks. Like that'd be weird.

0:18:00 Thomas: Sounds

0:18:14 Tom: We wouldn't do that. Neither of us would do that now.

0:18:14 Thomas: Like a great day to me. It's a good day.

0:18:16 Tom: Neither of us. So, but like if other couples have a different boundary there, I think that's a negotiable boundary that would not necessarily venture into cheating.

0:18:18 Thomas: Whereas sure, Lydia and I both follow Sydney Sweeney and then send pics of her that we see where we're like, "Oh my god, this woman's boobs, like, I can't believe they're impossible. Sydney Sweeney's boobs, they're not

0:18:38 Tom: I have no idea what that is.

0:18:38 Thomas: Oh

0:18:39 Eli: Have a weird what well I don't want you to I don'T WANT TO END YOUR MARRIAGE OTHERWISE I'D SEND YOU A PICTURE OF HER THAT'S

0:18:40 Thomas: Oh, man, it'd be wasted. Yeah. Oh, man,

0:18:42 Tom: Who? Well, I don't know if it's an, if it's an Instagram, you you know, guys, no, I don't use it. I don't use social night. I dunno who that is though.

0:18:48 Thomas: She's an actress signed

0:18:50 Eli: TRUE HERE'S MY QUESTION AND FEEL FREE TO REJECT THE PREMISE TOM IF YOU BELIEVE IN CHEATING ISN'T THERE A HARD LINE THAT CHEating IS THAT DOESN'T OH NO I GUESS YOU KNOW YOU CAN STILL BECAUSE YOU IF YOU AGREE THAT IT'S A SOCIAL CONTRACT it's not like a two

0:18:52 Tom: Yeah.

0:19:06 Tom: Think it's a contract made between two people in a relationship.

0:19:08 Eli: People so they're that's why okay so question withdrawn I was thinking like no but there must be a hard cheating line in your mind it's

0:19:09 Thomas: In Blood Oh, yeah.

0:19:09 Tom: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but but I think that's an important, I'm glad you asked that. Cause I think that that's really like the most important thing about cheating, right. Is that this is a negotiable relationship contract and like can have that be

0:19:21 Eli: So fun yeah

0:19:26 Thomas: Early and often. I don't know.

0:19:27 Tom: Entirely open or you can close it down you know yeah like you guys decide and then if somebody violates that agreement then that's why it's cheating

0:19:31 Thomas: Yeah, no, 100%.

0:19:30 Eli: Then you gotta steal the relationship and the other person has to spend three years legally trying to get out of the relationship yeah get the relationship by themselves

0:19:36 Tom: Right yeah so I

0:19:39 Thomas: The passwords. Yeah. Get the password to your relationship. It's It's just admin. No, I don' t know.

0:19:45 Eli: Yeah hmm

0:19:45 Tom: Think I don't think that like I think if I found I think think it just was following like hot chick accounts on instagram I don t know that haley would think of it as cheating but I think that we would both agree that that was really problematic and it would cause distress and upset but I don't know that it would be I don'T KNOW THAT WE WOULD SAY THAT THAT WAS EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS CHEATING RIGHT LIKE I DO BUT I THINK IT WOULD CAUSE A LOT OF DISTRUST AND UPSET YEAH THAT'S DESCRIPTIVE THAT'S I'M NOT SAYING EVERYBODY HAS TO FEEL THAT WAY YEAH BUT I FOR THE

0:19:48 Thomas: Password one. Yes.

0:20:02 Thomas: Wow. Huh.

0:20:02 Eli: Weigh

0:20:12 Thomas: That's weird, but No, no. We know, we know, we know 100 % 100 % Yeah.

0:20:16 Eli: Yeah yeah, no, yeah, yeah. No, no. And we've, you've, you've clarified that.

0:20:19 Tom: AUDIENCE I'M MAKING SURE THE AUDIENCE TO BECAUSE THEN I'M YOU 'LL BE A FUCKING HUNDRED INSANE MESSAGES ABOUT HOW THAT'S NOT TRUE AND IT'S LIKE WHAT YOU COULD JUST HAVE have that not be true for you it's fine so

0:20:19 Eli: I don't think. Yeah. Yeah.

0:20:19 Thomas: Right. Boy. The cleavage. You are missing out on Sidney Sweeney, just the cleevage.

0:20:30 Tom: Yeah

0:20:30 Eli: This is why he has so many hobbies. This is what he's on a bike is he's not looking at fucking.

0:20:35 Thomas: It's like when George Costanza doesn't have sex. Oh, man. That's one of my favorite Seinfelds. I, that one, 'cause I just think that is like such a, like, I, what I love about this list is it goes, it alternates between putting it in the butt and having friends. Like it's just like, it's fucking wild. Like it was so crazy. Number 15, giving your number to a stranger. What year is it?

0:20:46 Tom: It's bouncing around

0:20:57 Thomas: What year was it?

0:20:38 Eli: Yeah, exactly. Right. That's cheating. Sure is cheating.

0:20:59 Thomas: Giving your number. Number to a strange or fantastic. That's just, I don't even think we need to talk about that. It's fucking stupid.

0:21:03 Eli: No cheating.

0:21:05 Thomas: Number 16, stalking your crush online. Okay.

0:20:57 Tom: What no that's stupid yeah 100 that's cheating

0:21:09 Thomas: Okay. Okay. But here's the best thing I have found. I don't want to generalize, but I have found that women tend to do a lot of social media stalking. And I wonder how often they're doing this. So maybe they're all attracted to, I wonder, I don'T know. I pretty much always do.

0:21:09 Tom: Yeah I think this is a common behavior yeah

0:21:27 Eli: Yeah.

0:21:28 Thomas: My wife always knows everything about every single relationship statuses of people and the families and the whatever. Does that, that count? I wonder. I don't know. Yeah.

0:21:32 Tom: Yeah

0:21:35 Eli: Yeah. I so I'll say this is true of all the women in my life as well, which is that they all have done like a, I did a deep Google search and I found our third cousins, you know, had a funeral 17 weeks ago and then I Google mapped it so I could see what the tombstone looked like

0:21:43 Thomas: Yeah I'm like, I don't even know who you're talking, my sis I have a sister what are you talking about is what am I usually my response probably

0:21:51 Eli: Right and exactly yeah exactly yeah so I think that depends on only how one views, so I, I think investigation is something that is exciting for some people without being necessarily sexual. I don't know. I don't do it.

0:22:06 Thomas: Yeah

0:22:06 Tom: I think where I'm hung up is like I've got a crush on someone right in this scenario scenario I've got a crush on somebody so I've got feelings for somebody whether they're emotional exclusively sexual exclusively or a combination right Got feelings and then I'm spending my time my emotional time my my actual time and energy pursuing that

0:22:07 Eli: Right already not okay, yeah

0:22:28 Thomas: That's a good point. Tom has no time. Anything he does that uses time is cheating.

0:22:34 Tom: Like but I a little bit like I think that yeah a little Bit though like a little bit like I I think that like in, in the context of a monogamous relationship, the, the exclusivity around that does have to do with your emotional time and energy and resources.

0:22:35 Eli: Yeah yeah

0:22:36 Thomas: It's kind of true like yeah, honestly, like especially with kids Uh, yeah, 100%, especially, especially With, like, I very quickly realized, like, wait, I'm not even joking. Like, that is true. Like, especially the less time you have.

0:22:52 Eli: Skronking

0:22:57 Tom: I'm not joking. Yeah. Yeah. So like that's an hour that I'm not spending investing in my relationship. It's an hour, I have to invest in a relationship, right, somebody attention or in encouraging my own desires. And that's an hour that I've decided to spend with someone else instead of encouraging my own relationship. That's an honor. I could just spend that way.

0:22:58 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:23:16 Thomas: I want to see the candid video of Tom just encouraging his own desires. Like, on his own. God, I love, God, love Haley. Fucking love Haney so much. Slapping himself in the face. Oh, I don't know. I love him.

0:23:23 Eli: It uh that's

0:23:22 Tom: Do you So, yeah, I think that that's behavior in a monogamous relationship that would be like I'm stoking the flames of this crush. That's the intention of doing it.

0:23:36 Eli: What Tom says when he skronks it to pictures of Haley's. So good, these flames, so good, right?

0:23:43 Tom: Think cyber stalking, I don't think like cyber stalk, but I think like, like I'm looking at like person on Facebook that's obviously not cheating, but if it's somebody that like just to contextualize it again for the audience, I can leave somebody that, like, I actively have fucking feelings for, and I'm in a monogamous relationship well feeding the fire of the set of feelings, intent, intention, I'm like, like purposely doing that

0:23:50 Eli: Of course yeah yeah

0:23:50 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, mm, yeah. Mm -hmm. What if you have an office job where all day you have nothing to do? A little, a little different, you know? Like, you do a little, I remember back in, like, 2009, I'd be, I'll be on Facebook just fucking, I wasn't married, but I'd just be like, good.

0:24:16 Tom: Crushes

0:24:08 Eli: A little different obviously yeah what if it's 9/11, the country country shattered, you don't know what to to do I

0:24:21 Tom: So is that an insane take though? Like, and I want to know like you guys like is that a crazy take? No

0:24:27 Eli: Don't know, it's

0:24:25 Thomas: Yeah. No, it's not an insane take at all. No. No no no. I don't think that's an insane. I don't think that's insane take the ball number 17, paying special attention to a particular person. I love that we've gone from fucking discussing your intimate desires with someone and, like, giving your number to, like, paying attention to some, it's the, the, I'm getting the bends from the fucking, it's so funny I

0:24:28 Tom: Okay okay what

0:24:28 Eli: Hard to I don't know okay yeah

0:24:38 Tom: Yeah

0:24:46 Eli: That's crazy. Well

0:24:47 Tom: That's crazy I don't, I mean, like, like without any additional context, like

0:24:51 Thomas: I think we're to believe this is essentially just having a little bit of a crush, I think, like, in so many words, right? I mean, but

0:24:56 Eli: I I special attention to people that I don't have crushes on, like I, I, so I will say for me, right, try to be a person who people can come to in moments of hardship, uh, when they need support, and so there have been lots of times where people who are in relationships, monogamous or otherwise, have come to me for or special attention and support when there's been nothing sexual about it.

0:25:00 Tom: Yeah I, I've reached out to my friends just to be like, hey, you know, like, looks like you might be going through something. I'm here for you, right?

0:25:26 Eli: Right.

0:25:26 Thomas: The wording is special attention to a particular person. I think we're to believe this is someone you're probably like a little attracted to.

0:25:30 Tom: Right, so if you contextualize it in the other 21 questions, then it's cheating. If it's contextualized within the scope of "I have a crush on somebody and now I'm acting on that crush in order to provide them with special attention," then of course it is because I'm actively pursuing this crush.

0:25:34 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, wow. Oh. Okay.

0:25:35 Eli: Yeah.

0:25:47 Thomas: Man. Jeez. Okay, yeah. Wow. No,

0:25:48 Eli: If you're playing the floor is lava, you can't... Yeah, you can't sit on the edge of the lava and run your finger gently on the lava.

0:25:56 Thomas: For want to actually a serious question, Tom, for the sake of, and, and I hope you'll entertain the hypothetical. I want,

0:25:59 Tom: Yeah,

0:26:01 Eli: Can we have sex with your wife?

0:26:02 Thomas: I know. Can I have sex with you? No. Um, I, for that, But for the sake of the

0:26:06 Eli: That's a funnier bit. That's an even better bit.

0:26:09 Thomas: Hypothetical, I hope you'll actually go with it. Because I grant that often these things, people are bullshitting and they're actually doing something different. But let's pretend that you're never going to violate the bonds of your marriage. You're never gonna actually do something with someone. Let's pretend you're someone who's like, hey, I have a firm, I'm not going to ever physically do anything with someone, I'm never gonna even have the emotional whatever, but I think this person's attractive, And, you know, maybe like I find reasons to talk to him a little bit throughout my day, like in the, at the office or where, like, like it is the very, um, of trying to be around someone that you're maybe a little attracted to because it, you know, is just a pleasant thing to be, I guess, around. Is that too far for you? Like it, like assuming you are just never actually going to do anything.

0:26:10 Tom: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:26:55 Tom: I hate to do this. Reject the premise.

0:26:58 Thomas: Oh, come on, dude.

0:26:59 Tom: Do. I like, I don't under.

0:27:01 Thomas: How dare you?

0:27:01 Eli: Fuck you.

0:27:02 Tom: Yeah,

0:27:02 Thomas: I asked you not to.

0:27:03 Tom: I'm sorry. But yeah, I like I don't believe that.

0:27:06 Thomas: Don't think that's possible.

0:27:08 Tom: No, I DON'T. I DON't. I don't believe.

0:27:09 Thomas: Okay. I don't know, man. Well,

0:27:11 Tom: Here's the thing. I don't believe that anybody has a. Maybe I'm just wrong. I'll admit, like, maybe I'm wrong. But I don't believe that somebody has a crush of some kind on someone else such that they want to spend extra time, impress that person, be around that person more, but there is also no possibility of them developing any kind of emotional space with that person that's inappropriate. Appropriate.

0:27:36 Thomas: I was, I wasn't even using the words of crush, I was saying like someone you're attracted to. Let's say, I know I keep going back to the office, but honestly that's, that's the majority of, like, when these social things in my life have happened is in the workplace, but where it's like, all you gotta fucking, uh, to do a project with someone, do I decide to doing it with you, the extremely unattractive overweight -aged man, or there's a cute girl that I could pair up with to do this work project. You know, I'm probably going to go for the cute girl.

0:27:39 Tom: I I right yeah I think if you're choosing who to work with based on how attractive they are, you're not in a good space.

0:28:06 Thomas: A thing that doesn't matter. Pretend you do work that doesn't matter, Tom, and has never mattered. About making different bullshit meetings for nothing that don't do anything. Don't need to like be on the merits. Like who's going to be the best at this worthless PowerPoint presentation? Reputation.

0:28:20 Tom: I wouldn't say that that's cheating, but I, I would, I would question somebody's motives. Yeah, I would. I

0:28:24 Thomas: Oh, my motive is to be around the attractive person more. That's That's my motive. You don't need to question it.

0:28:29 Tom: For what like I just

0:28:30 Thomas: Because it's nice to be Around attractive people. Yeah.

0:28:30 Tom: Just to be around around attractive people so that you can be attracted to them?

0:28:35 Thomas: Yeah, it's nice.

0:28:36 Tom: Yeah. But see, yeah, no, I, I don't, yeah. I don't think that that's a real thing.

0:28:39 Thomas: Whoa, really? Wow.

0:28:37 Eli: I on I'm on Team Lava, yeah. Getting ready to step in that lava you're like, "Oh, I just want to be around the lava.

0:28:45 Thomas: What are you talking about? Maybe

0:28:46 Eli: I just want to hang out with the lava."

0:28:47 Thomas: Eli, maybe this is Why you can't do the flirting. Are you, like, you think that any amount of anything is like you're committing to, like, having sex or something? This is weird. This is a weird place to be. No, I'm talking about Eli.

0:28:48 Eli: Yeah. I

0:28:56 Tom: No, I DON't think it's committing to having sex either, but like, I, yeah!

0:28:59 Thomas: I think I think Eli is at that, like, he same reason he can't flirt at all is because he doesn't have moderation. It's either zero or a million. Oh,

0:28:59 Tom: Yeah! Right! Yeah.

0:28:59 Eli: He's not talking about. I, I, again, I think that's largely because, like, the flirting behavior, I, so this is where I was going to agree with you, Thomas, right, is that I have had work crushes where acting on those work crushes would make someone feel unsafe in the workplace, right? Or be unprofessional, but you have a crush on them and you still want to hang out with them, you you're Just like, okay, I'm just going to be like a really good friend to this person. We're going to have a really good time. I know I have this feeling, but like, it's my obligation not to make that, that other person's problem. They get to just have a good friend like that for sure I've done.

0:29:19 Thomas: God, yeah. You don't want to do that. Fuck yeah. Yeah.

0:29:34 Thomas: Yeah. That's kind of what I mean, like that kind kind of thing. Cheating.

0:29:40 Eli: But Tom, I think that's cheating in the Monago, right. And that cheat, that's fucking, Can you want to be around a person and you're just, you're not flirting with them because they're at work I think that's fucking cheating as fuck. Well

0:29:43 Tom: Yeah, I do too. Yeah!

0:29:44 Thomas: In the monoga Jesus Christ No.

0:29:50 Tom: Yeah, look, Here's, Here's the thing. It's, it's not necessarily about, like, for real, it's not necessarily about, like, am I fucking this person or not, like

0:29:50 Thomas: What's happening here It's about, have I committed thought crime? I get it, yeah, I'm

0:30:00 Tom: Well no, I have committed a thought crime. No, that's absurd, like. But no, like, I, I think that if we're intentionally changing our activity so that we can be around somebody that we're attracted to, I think that that's, that's, that's the very least cheating adjacent. Yeah, course it is because

0:30:17 Thomas: Not so I'm not so shocked by Tom's opinion. I'm shocked by Eli's opinion that's

0:30:19 Tom: Of course it is because because like, I'm, I'm working towards spending more time in a way that is not completely outside. Reasons here are not pure. My reasons here not like, yeah, I just, I'm hanging out with, with Jane because Jane's a cool person. It's like, no, I'm hanging out with Jane cause I'm attracted to Jane and I'm going out of my way to spend time with that person. Yeah, that's fucking a cheating adjacent, of course.

0:30:32 Thomas: Yeah. But But it's contextual, like what, in the same way that Lydia and I have always been fine with flirting, I feel like we've always been kind that like being around attractive people is fine. I don't know, like could that

0:30:51 Tom: But I'm not saying being around attractive people isn't fine. I want to be clear about that. Like being around attractive people is perfectly fine, but if I'm making efforts, if I'm making extra efforts to spend time with them because they're attractive, right?

0:30:52 Thomas: No like trying to be really, you know, obviously, like, that's what I mean making that effort. Yeah Yes. That's what I, that's

0:31:07 Tom: So like that, I just want to be clear again for the, like, that's, of course that's cheating adjacent. Yeah

0:31:06 Eli: That feels cheating. Oh

0:31:11 Thomas: But, but I'm also making the point that, like, thought we made earlier, which is this is contextual in terms of your relationship, right? So you don't think that's a thing that could be okay between people?

0:31:16 Tom: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

0:31:19 Eli: Yeah, no Of course I mean Yeah, yeah.

0:31:20 Tom: People can make whatever agreements they want Yeah, people

0:31:22 Thomas: Oh, okay,

0:31:22 Tom: Could make whatever agreements they want. Yeah But

0:31:22 Thomas: Okay. Well, that's why Eli's throwing me off. I don't know what the fuck Eli's saying.

0:31:25 Eli: Well Because I don't know what the fucking people are doing. You guys are all walking around pretending the floor is lava. Nothing's wrong with any of it. Good, fucking get in there, girl. Get that dick. I don't fucking know what you guys are talking about. I'm like, oh, he's fucking hot as shit. You should fuck him.

0:31:27 Tom: But I suspect, but But Yeah. Yeah.

0:31:39 Thomas: Eli's been faking it the whole time like he's not even understanding the language.

0:31:41 Eli: Yeah. I hope he comes all over your fucking eyebrows. I hope you have a fantastic time together. That sounds amazing. Get in there girl Yeah.

0:31:49 Thomas: Why the eyebrows?

0:31:47 Tom: But I expect most people who are playing the floor is lava would agree I

0:31:50 Thomas: Okay. That's a great detail.

0:31:54 Eli: That's what I'm trying to say is, I think the bring

0:31:56 Thomas: Oh, that's interesting. Okay.

0:31:57 Tom: Think that most people who are playing like would say that, yeah, like going out of your way to spend time with people you're attracted to is, even if it doesn't

0:31:58 Thomas: Okay, yeah, all right. That's so interesting. That is so interesting, because even forever ago, I would have had this opinion that that doesn't really matter that much, because, like, I think I've always just had a firm kind of distinction between is something, like actions, are you doing an actionable thing, like actual thing, or is something just background, ground or it's just kind of like, ah, you know, a little flirting, a little whatever. And I've always kind of had that distinction, but I don't know. Maybe that's just not at all normal.

0:32:07 Tom: Yeah, yeah. But

0:32:36 Thomas: I don' t know.

0:32:36 Tom: I would point out that, like, maybe part of the reason you've always had the distinction is because your proclivities are not toward monogamy

0:32:42 Thomas: How dare you talk about my proclivities? Even, even this, uh, even this, like when I was in the allegedly monogamous relationships, it's like, I ''t, I don'' t know, I don't think I cared, but but that just might be me. Well,

0:32:43 Tom: Right? So You've

0:32:53 Eli: Me speak from a pervert's purview, please. If I may, if I make, can I speak for, for the perverts?

0:32:55 Thomas: Mm, please, yeah, absolutely.

0:32:58 Eli: From the moment monogamy was introduced, I was like, ah, fuck, I don't want to do that. Gross. And every time I'd get into a relationship, and I mean fucking early, I remember approaching my sixth grade girlfriend about an open marriage, which is the only term I knew about it. I literally was like hey, what would you think about an opened marriage? And she was like we're not going to the dance anymore. And I was, like, I have Always, look, I, I do not want to compare the experience of being a open sexually person to the experience of being gay or anything that gay or queer people go through. I'm not making that comparison at all, but I will say the closest I have ever felt to being oppressed because of a thing that is innate to me is when people have been like, "And then you're gonna want to fuck one person?" And I've been like, "Just one?" Yeah.

0:33:06 Tom: Oh, my God.

0:33:15 Thomas: No, no way. Oh, that's incredible, really? That's incredible.

0:33:48 Thomas: Yeah, I

0:33:53 Eli: Like, okay, maybe this also is low when I was, I was really informed that people who were 100% straight. How I felt. I was like, really? Like, no dudes? You don't want to fuck any dudes? And they were like, no, none dudes. And I was, like, that seems insane.

0:34:10 Tom: I think

0:34:12 Thomas: Feel bad that Eli's never tried to fuck me. Actually, is this, is it me? Is this something?

0:34:16 Eli: We work together.

0:34:19 Thomas: Oh, we didn't always work together.

0:34:15 Tom: Do, too. I think

0:34:22 Eli: We pretty much always work together, Tom. I

0:34:24 Thomas: Might

0:34:23 Tom: Yeah. Here is the way, like, if you were to just to say it honestly within a monogamist relationship where it's like, "Oh, hey, you know, I just want to let you know, like, today I'm gonna go out of my way to spend time with someone I'm attracted to." Most monogamous people will be like, "Wait, you're gonna do what? That's a weird thing for you to, like," if we just say out loud what we're actually doing when we do that, I think most people would be like, "Oh, actually, like, I would prefer that you didn't," or like, what's what's right, yeah

0:34:49 Thomas: Be true of a lot of our internal monologues though, just about everything. But maybe I'm wrong. Tom's the only one who has a purpose trained his mind to be pure at all thought times. What? 18, gentlemen, always commenting on and liking a person's pictures. Yeah.

0:34:54 Tom: Maybe I'm just saying, like, that if we say it out loud, like, if we say the true thing out loud. Don't the context of this is someone you're attracted to or have a crush. Right. Cause otherwise it makes no sense.

0:35:14 Eli: Think we got to go without the context of having a crush on the person No, see, because I would actually hear, I have actually heard people be mad about just the action of liking someone's posts and pictures. Yeah.

0:35:14 Thomas: It can't be just like Bruce Springsteen Well,

0:35:27 Tom: That's fucking nuts.

0:35:28 Eli: I think That's insane.

0:35:28 Thomas: They even if it's not like a person they're attracted to. Oh, because it's like a jealousy of like you don't like my stuff enough or whatever.

0:35:29 Eli: Yeah. Well, Yeah. And even if it's like I'm not attracted to that person, but they're the opposite sex and we're in a straight couple

0:35:35 Thomas: Okay. So it still is about that threat you

0:35:41 Eli: Yeah.

0:35:41 Tom: Like, so okay. So like, I'm like, I've got a good, like I've Got, I got women friends in my life. So like if my friend Michelle posts something, I will almost always interact with it with a like or because it's nice. It just feels polite. She's a close friend of mine for 20 years. Even I'm not going to ignore. I'm Not Going to Ignore. Right. Partly because, by the way, because I never used to interact with anything. Like people would like say stuff and I don't interact for years. And then Haley actually was like, that's really rude. Like you should interact with people that comment.

0:35:55 Thomas: Guys are fucking you should

0:36:12 Tom: Comment on her No, she was like, like if she posts a status and anybody writes anything she'll interact with it in some way and I never used to do that. Like, I would not, and she would, she was like, "You never interact with my shit." I'm like, "I don't interact with anyone's shit." Like, I'm like, that sure is a comment I just didn't do it. So she's like, "That's fucking rude. Don't be rude." So like, now I try to be less rude. So if I, like, commented on, like, something my friend Michelle all posted and Haley had a pro, like, that would be fucking insane.

0:36:11 Thomas: Fuck more other people No, I'm just kidding. Sorry. It's very rude Yep. Yep. That's Why, I like and reshare every one of Sidney Sweeney's pictures.

0:36:41 Tom: Now, Now, if I was like looking cute girl, winky face or something, that would be fucking different. Right.

0:36:46 Eli: Skronking it

0:36:47 Thomas: Yeah. No, I think this is, this is the kind of behavior where if you're doing this to an extent that a girl, like, let's say we're just talking hetero dudes here, if you are doing this to an extend where the girl is obviously noticing it, then that's already cheating aside. I don't give a shit about that. That's probably just, like, kind of weird and creepy, like you. That's probably not that cool.

0:37:08 Tom: Well, I think you're going to get like a vibe from, like, I joked before, like was like a couple of years and it's died off, but it's really funny. There was a couple years where, like, literally if Haley posted something, somebody must have had a notification set up because they would be the first to like or first to like and comment, even if like I was literally in the room when she posted it, and I was going to go in there to, like, you said, like, you like maybe like flirt with her a little bit on it or whatever, like just interact with it. That motherfucker beat me to the punch for, like, two years. It was hilarious. Dude must have had a fucking, like Pavlok wristwatch that zapped him when something went off, like it was crazy but, like, Who cares, right?

0:37:21 Thomas: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was Heath. Just kidding.

0:37:44 Eli: Oh, God. Your heart, like, so hot. Yeah. Yeah.

0:37:52 Tom: Right. Like, like it was fucking weird. I thought that was fucking weird. But like, do I think that person had a crush on her? Yeah, I 100% do. Like I that's why I'm saying like I 100% percent believe that that level of interaction one of course he did. Yeah.

0:37:59 Eli: Yeah.

0:37:58 Thomas: Yes. Yeah, 100%. And I'm agreeing in saying yes and also that's probably not cool just for the person you're, you harassing.

0:38:12 Tom: Yeah yeah.

0:38:12 Eli: They probably don't want that kind of attention. Yeah, that's you offering a little bit of penne alla vodka. No, no.

0:38:14 Thomas: Yeah.

0:38:18 Tom: It is man. It is. Yeah fucking

0:38:21 Thomas: Sorry, hoping to make someone notice you in a romantic way, in a romance, romantic way.

0:38:25 Eli: That's cheating.

0:38:25 Tom: What? Of course that is. Yeah. What the fuck? Yes. Hoping someone grabs your penis and puts it in their mouth. Is that cheating? Yeah, That's of course it is. Yeah, yeah.

0:38:32 Thomas: Does someone notice You in a Romantic Way? I guess I've just hung up on the romance. Like I could see wanting someone to be attracted to me, but like in a romantic way, like, oh, I want them to buy me flowers.

0:38:40 Eli: Yeah. In a romantic way really makes that sentence, yeah.

0:38:44 Tom: Yeah.

0:38:44 Thomas: It's kind of weird.

0:38:44 Tom: Well, and it's very specific too, right? Like, because I think we want to be attractive in the world and that, that's fine, like want to walk outside, like, if I go to, like, a, like, I got, I'll tell you a quick story. Like, I went, I, I have to get my, um, like, sport coats or suits made for me because, like, I can't buy off the rack. So I had a jacket made and I, I got it and it was wrong and I sent it back and she fixed it. But I wore it the other day to a lunch and the whole time I'm at lunch, I'm keenly aware of that she fucked up the sleeves and it doesn't sit right and I'm constantly tugging at it it it was fucking absurd.

Like, I was sitting at this table next to my boss, next to these people that they flew in from India for this, like, lunch meeting, and I felt like a fucking slob in this jacket. This, this jacket did not fit, and it was evident that it did not fit. I'm sitting at a table full of people who are are wearing tailored clothes. So I felt like an asshole. We want to go out in the world and feel attractive and confident. And that's fine. I think if our we're intention when we're dressing ourselves is to be attractive to a one specific person and it's not your spouse, then

0:38:50 Thomas: Yes. Yeah. Your

0:38:50 Eli: Speak for yourself.

0:39:15 Thomas: Buys are just bulging out of. OK. OK, geez.

0:39:50 Thomas: OK,

0:39:50 Tom: Like, yeah, of course you've, you've got intent there, right?

0:39:52 Eli: Who you want to romantically, like you, yeah, obviously, yeah.

0:39:55 Tom: You've got content there. You're like, yeah, I'm going to dress nice so that this person notices me in a sexual way or in a, in romantic way

0:40:00 Thomas: Is an interesting distinction, though, say even though the dressing, the whatever you're doing is exactly identical in both scenarios, it's it's it's fine when it's like a general I want to be attractive versus I want someone to notice me.

0:40:01 Tom: Yes. 100, it's the intent. Yes. 100.

0:40:15 Eli: Right.

0:40:15 Thomas: Very interesting.

0:40:16 Tom: Because it's your intent. It's, again, like, I feel like this, this is, like, say it out loud. It's like, oh yeah, I want to look nice for this meeting. I gotta, I gotta put on my, my nice jacket because I gotta look nice für this meeting, right? Okay. Oh, I gotta put on this, this new suit because I want Jane to be attracted to me. Anyway, hon, I'm going, going to work. Yeah,

0:40:33 Eli: Steve's gonna be there and I just want him to really think about what it might be like

0:40:37 Thomas: But on the other hand, if we're talking about the exact same look, it'S kind of funny to to be like, oh, in one scenario, yeah, I want Jane to think I'm hot. Hey, I want everyone in here to want to fuck me. I want so many people in here. To put it another way, it's like, Oh, you just want as many possible people fucking you as possible. But somehow that's fine.

0:40:55 Eli: Maybe you're even more of a perv than I am, Tom, and

0:40:58 Tom: I think about it, but I do. I actually think that it is because, like, I think broadly speaking we all want to be seen as attractive in the world in a general and non-specific way, and there's nothing threatening in a relationship about general non-specific attraction, right? Receiving it

0:41:12 Thomas: I get that all the time. Thomas, you're so attractive in a general, non -specific way.

0:41:17 Tom: I Think I think that's what dressing nice is for, right? Yeah.

0:41:18 Eli: Could do 10 pull-ups.

0:41:19 Thomas: Yeah. All right. We're almost through it. 20. Asking someone personal or inappropriate questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair. Yeah.

0:41:27 Eli: Cheating, inappropriate, inappropriate sexual harassment

0:41:30 Tom: Yeah.

0:41:32 Thomas: Inappropriate. Fuck. Okay. Let's, let's get rid of the inappropriate then. Asking someone personal questions. Is that micro cheating?

0:41:33 Eli: That's normal Yeah.

0:41:40 Tom: I think That's just making a connection with somebody. Like I guess, like, with what intent, right?

0:41:43 Thomas: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah

0:41:43 Eli: Yeah. I mean Inappropriate's doing the work there, right? So, yeah. Because

0:41:49 Tom: Yeah.

0:41:47 Thomas: Yeah. Which is stupid because it's like, yeah that's wrong for the other reason though. That's yeah.

0:41:53 Eli: It's inappropriate by definition, right?

0:41:53 Thomas: Yeah.

0:41:54 Tom: It Was it, when is it, when they're inappropriate, things appropriate? Exactly.

0:41:58 Thomas: OK, let's let's try to help this quiz and say the person's fine with it, but they would be inappropriate to like your random stranger kind of thing. Maybe like it's like you've developed a rapport. Good.

0:41:58 Tom: Yeah. Yeah.

0:42:09 Eli: I guess if it's inappropriately sexual or romantic, then, because

0:42:12 Tom: I guess for me it comes back to intent. Like, what kind of relationship am I trying to build, a friendship or a romantic relationship? Yeah.

0:42:18 Eli: I ask Tom inappropriate, inappropriate questions all the time, but I'm not flirting, right?

0:42:20 Thomas: Yeah. Better not be because, you know,

0:42:23 Tom: Like what am I like the the intent, I think, is everything, right? Like, it's like, am I intending to just like have a connection with someone I care about because that's how you build friendships or am I like, Hey, I I'm, I'm doing this to deepen our emotional connection so that I can have an emotional, I like this person.

0:42:31 Thomas: Fair or you're like, I've had diarrhea for three straight days. Do you, have you ever had diarrhea for three straight days?

0:42:44 Eli: That's Exactly what I was gonna say, yeah maybe you just want to send your buddy a picture of a b, exactly

0:42:47 Thomas: Is that okay? Yeah,

0:42:48 Tom: Are you reading Eli's text messages to me again? That's

0:42:49 Eli: Yes.

0:42:49 Thomas: That would be inappropriate, but not cheating, I think. All right, final one, drum roll.

0:42:50 Eli: Not cheating Unless last one Yeah.

0:42:57 Thomas: Turning to someone else for your emotional needs when your relationship is rocky. I think, I feel like that's probably, probably cheating.

0:42:53 Tom: Yeah. All right here we go. Oh, that's not good, that's

0:43:05 Thomas: Yeah, it's probably on the way to cheating, maybe.

0:43:06 Eli: Probably

0:43:06 Tom: Not good that's not good

0:43:09 Eli: On the way. I mean, it's, it's not necessarily cheating. It's a sign of distress in the relationship right?

0:43:13 Tom: Yeah. I don't, I will say this, like, if, if your relationship is rocky and you're turning, like, if I'm like, shit, my relationship is rocky, and I talk to, like, Cecil about it, that's fine, right? Cecil's my 30 year-long closest his friend.

0:43:27 Eli: You're not flirting.

0:43:28 Tom: Right. But like, if I talk to that girl that I've been trying to impress and wearing nice clothes for, for six months, then that's different.

0:43:24 Thomas: You're fucking. Oh, I I knew it. I knew it.

0:43:37 Tom: It is. It's just different. Right? And I will say too, like guys have a tendency to want to build emotional bridges with women rather than with men, like the time. And, and that is, that is very often a dangerous space for people to come into. Right. So if you're if your relationship is rocky, it's very easy for feelings to develop. You know, that's a very that's very vulnerable space to allow yourself to be in and to have a cross sex, assuming heterosexuality, to have across sex friendship, be that sort of for you. Right? So that's dangerous, dangerous position

0:43:35 Eli: Yeah. That's

0:43:48 Thomas: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:44:18 Eli: Why I

0:44:18 Tom: To put yourself in.

0:44:18 Eli: Can't talk to anybody about my feelings, Tom. Because I fuck all the people.

0:44:22 Tom: Because you'll want to fuck

0:44:24 Eli: I walk a lonely road, the only one that I have ever known.

0:44:24 Tom: Me if you tell me your problems. Yeah.

0:44:28 Thomas: You

0:44:36 Eli: All right, gentlemen, we did it. We did it, and uh, Thomas, Thomas, I know, I know that you've even worried about getting a vasectomy, but I'm telling you life after having a vasctomy is great. I don't really see a vast difference.

0:44:47 Tom: That was good, actually. Took a second.

0:44:54 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, tom smith who also wrote and recorded the intro music which is used with his permission This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC. Copyright 2022, all rights reserved.

0:45:34 Thomas: Never sent you a picture of any of his swords though like just it's just a sword pick just like

0:45:38 Tom: Sword? Or regular?

0:45:40 Eli: I you know what I'm into spoons up the butt and

0:45:43 Tom: Really, like a good spoon up my ass. You

0:45:46 Eli: That dick I

0:45:47 Thomas: Hey, I want everyone in here to want to fuck me. I