DOD304: Diagnosing the Situation

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:28 Eli: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that everyone has autism on! I'm Eli Bosnick, and I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith. Thomas, how you doing?

0:00:41 Thomas: Non-autistic.

0:00:41 Eli: Not autistic, and I'm joined once again by the lovely, the talented, the glowing Lydia Smith. Lydia, thank you so much for joining us.

0:00:46 Lydia: Yeah, Yeah, thank you. If you listened the last episode, you know why I'm glowing.

0:00:53 Thomas: Yeah. Don't want to miss that one.

0:00:55 Eli: All... Or maybe that didn't make the edit. We'll find out.

0:00:57 Thomas: Oh, that, no, that made the edit.

0:00:57 Lydia: I'm Leaving it in, it's fine, I

0:00:58 Thomas: Lydia's best joke she's ever told.

0:00:59 Lydia: Don't

0:00:59 Eli: It made it in the edit. It's in front of the...

0:01:01 Thomas: I think Lydia's best joke she's ever made will be in the show.

0:01:03 Lydia: Care now.

0:01:03 Eli: It's... But it's in... It's behind a paywall for a lot of reasons. So, you know, sign up. And hey,

0:01:08 Thomas: That's, is it, wait, what are you talking about?

0:01:10 Lydia: I'm Giving it to the people, it's

0:01:11 Thomas: It's not behind a paywall.

0:01:11 Eli: It's to the people. All right, well, there you go.

0:01:12 Lydia: Yeah.

0:01:12 Thomas: Yeah. Everybody's getting right? What? I'm sorry.

0:01:14 Lydia: Yeah. Before, It was before, A parenting

0:01:15 Thomas: Yeah.

0:01:16 Eli: I was making an OnlyFans joke just when I was making it.

0:01:18 Thomas: Gotcha. Sorry.

0:01:18 Lydia: Yeah. No, I'm too busy to figure out that stuff.

0:01:21 Eli: Too busy to figure out an OnlyFans.

0:01:22 Thomas: It's really the only reason.

0:01:24 Eli: Only reason, it's the only way that the Smiths have not yet monetized is with OnlyFans. We found it.

0:01:27 Thomas: Yeah. And we're just too busy.

0:01:30 Lydia: And Burnout.

0:01:32 Thomas: Yeah.

0:01:30 Eli: Too busy what you're saying is that if dear old dad, if Tom does die And dear old dad's ends you pivot to only fans

0:01:36 Lydia: We pivot, then we pivot.

0:01:37 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe someone will do all this shit. Like, just do all the practical stuff.

0:01:44 Eli: You could get Andrew Tate Andrew Tate will do it for you

0:01:46 Thomas: Oh, God.

0:01:47 Lydia: My god, gross.

0:01:47 Thomas: Why did you go there? All right. I'm on the straight and narrow now. You've talked me out of That fucking guy.

0:01:51 Eli: There you go that's and that's how we talk people out of porn is that you may someday end up working for Andrew Tate I

0:01:57 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, this is not the intro we should have for this one. This is... Let's just get...

0:02:01 Eli: Think it is I think it is

0:02:03 Thomas: We should get to the nice commercial break first before we even, know, just clean split.

0:02:06 Eli: That's right. But gentlemen, gentlemen and or lady, you know the worst thing about doing your sex work to feed Andrew Tate's empire of misogyny and bigotry? Why? It's the auto ads. I was listening to our show the other day, so sometimes when I'm sad, this is going to maybe make me seem silly, I listen to the sex doll episode because I laugh so hard listening to that episode and I listened to it on the regular feed and I received 9 million auto ads but I didn't resent them because they're putting money in my pocket but if I did if I did I could head on over to patreon.com/dearolddads where for just a dollar an episode I could get rid of those auto ads once and for

0:02:15 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, God, that was the hardest you've ever left. Yeah.

0:02:27 Lydia: You. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Aww.

0:02:54 Thomas: God,

0:02:54 Eli: All plus I get an extended commercial-free version of every single episode with a little parenting story at the end

0:02:55 Thomas: That was the best. I hope they're still listening. That episode was the best. The parents were the best. It turned out that everyone ruled in that situation.

0:03:03 Eli: Was great everybody was great everyone

0:03:06 Thomas: That was so weird.

0:03:07 Eli: Ruled in that situation I now we did not hear from the dad and I assume he died, I assume he died by his own hand

0:03:12 Thomas: Oh, we just heard from the mom? Okay. I think she said it was cool though, right? Whatever.

0:03:14 Eli: Yes think the dad is dead by his own hand I think he. He didn't make it. I think he walked into the woods.

0:03:20 Thomas: Okay. Well, what was funny is that was another time where that one was more a joke, but I ended up being right, because I'd made the joke that it was like, oh, what if he barely even cared about it, forgot about the whole thing? And then the mom replied, it kind of was that, where the son was like, ah, nevermind.

0:03:31 Lydia: Mm.

0:03:39 Thomas: Anyway, listen to our entire back catalog. You got another little thing.

0:03:36 Eli: Yeah. Yeah, not a big deal. Insane. But I promise you, Dad thinks about it every day. Dad opens his eyes the way Thomas goes, Ah, I hate waking up! Dad goes, Ahh! The sex doll conversation! Uh, but I was listening to it. Auto ads, boring. But patreon.com, get rid of all those. Parenting story at the end. Monthly bonus episodes. And, hey, if we didn't guilt you already, Tom's got a lot of medical bills to pay.

0:03:44 Lydia: Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha.

0:04:03 Eli: And so you can make those bills go away one dollar at a time over at patreon.com/dearolddads. Lydia!

0:03:44 Thomas: Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sure fucking does or a guy

0:04:14 Eli: Excellent, look at that.

0:04:15 Thomas: Oh, you're doing like a little jingle to it, you know, like something like that.

0:04:18 Lydia: It. Mm-hmm.

0:04:18 Eli: That's great.

0:04:19 Thomas: I like it, it's good stuff.

0:04:19 Eli: Excellent. Last week we talked about coming on faces.

0:04:28 Thomas: It now now we're clean. Intro, we're clean. Clean cut off because, uh, big news in the Smith house. We got a diagnosis. Diagnosis watch. Yeah, our little Feebster has officially a diagnosis of ADHD.

0:04:45 Lydia: Yeah, both.

0:04:46 Thomas: Both autism and HD. For a second it was autism, with that doctor saying, "I'm pretty certain she has ADHD, but I don't get to say that." And then we did the ADHD one and they were like instantly like, "Yeah." It was weird.

0:04:57 Lydia: Yep.

0:04:59 Eli: Yeah. It was like when you would take a COVID test back in the day when you really had COVID and you'd be like, oh shit, yeah, it just popped.

0:05:02 Thomas: Just that line fucking you open the package and the line was there somehow. You're like, "Fuck."

0:05:06 Eli: Yeah. Yeah. And the line appeared. Yeah. 100%.

0:05:08 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:05:08 Thomas: Yep. It was like that. And, uh, yeah, this has been a a really interesting thing because I definitely thought she had ADHD. I wasn't, I, well, I, I guess, hon, I think I was the one who was saying she might have autism, right?

0:05:08 Eli: Yeah.

0:05:20 Lydia: Yeah, I think you were.

0:05:21 Thomas: Yeah, but I wasn't, I just, I wasn't sure because like, there's a lot of stuff going on in that, in that girl's brain. She's, she's just got so much going on in her brain. But yeah, that was ultimately the diagnosis. And what's funny, we can talk about it, but funniest the thing was she literally has the inverse autism of Arlo.

0:05:27 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

0:05:38 Thomas: The cause they have like a, I don't know, like

0:05:39 Lydia: There's A criteria and B criteria and then in the B criteria there's four items and she has two and Arlo has the other two.

0:05:41 Thomas: Right. The other two. Yeah. So they have the inverse autism, because it's so funny thinking about how different autism can be for people. Because Arlo and Phoebe are so different, vastly different. And I guess that's a good lesson. There's not any such thing as just like an autistic person. It's like, it's so different.

0:06:03 Lydia: Yeah, even within the same family, you

0:06:06 Thomas: Yeah. Same family.

0:06:05 Eli: Yeah, Oh 100%, yeah. Do you guys do a lot of autism jokes? Because that's really been a big fun time for me, you throw matchsticks in front of her, I do that a lot, how many matchsticks?

0:06:14 Lydia: No, she doesn't care about that.

0:06:15 Thomas: She wouldn't know. She'd probably count them.

0:06:17 Lydia: I don't, no, I think she would walk away. I think she would leave it on the ground and not care, no.

0:06:20 Eli: Only only one way to find out

0:06:23 Thomas: I think Lydia is projecting. Our daughter loves puzzles. Our daughter loves doing puzzles.

0:06:26 Lydia: She loves puzzles, but she also doesn't care about mess or trash.

0:06:28 Eli: My son also loves puzzle

0:06:30 Thomas: That's true. No, but I'm not, you don't throw the matchsticks. Have you seen that movie? It's not because there's a mess. Well, kind of is.

0:06:35 Eli: Haven't you seen it? It's great. Hey, can I say the best depiction of autism that has ever been is Rain Man

0:06:39 Thomas: It has not held up. Rain Man. Yeah, sorry, Dustin Hoffman.

0:06:46 Eli: Dustin

0:06:44 Lydia: So oh rain man okay yeah I have seen it it's been a while

0:06:47 Eli: And Hoffman, and

0:06:48 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, I don't think it probably aged that great. No, but she does love, she loves puzzles. I think it's so funny because Lydia's reaction to a puzzle is, I want to get away from that. Like there's no reason, like a riddle or a, yeah, no, yeah, not that kind of puzzle. Like a riddle or like a mind puzzle.

0:06:48 Eli: Tom Cruise.

0:06:59 Lydia: Um, well unless it's a jigsaw puzzle. I like jigsaw puzzles

0:07:03 Eli: I like a jigsaw puzzle. I hate jigsaw puzzles. Yep. So my spatial Like I, so you guys know this, I love board games. I can't play tile laying games because like I feel the vibe at the table descend into cold terror the fourth time I'm spinning a tea tile around in my hand to see if it'll fit on my board. Like I can't do it.

0:07:05 Lydia: Yeah Really I love them

0:07:29 Eli: And So jigsaw puzzles are just, I imagine how I feel looking at a jigsaw puzzle is how like someone with severe dyslexia feels being told they have to speed read.

0:07:28 Lydia: Oh, interesting.

0:07:29 Thomas: Interesting

0:07:40 Lydia: Oh, interesting, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I'm not a fan of like logic sort of puzzles and stuff usually. I think I just get to a certain point where I'm like, Okay, I get there's a puzzle, it's fine.

0:07:40 Thomas: Yeah, wow. You just don't want to get into it. Yeah,

0:07:52 Lydia: Like, I don't need to solve it. I gave it a go and, you know, that's enough.

0:07:52 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Whereas Phoebe and I are like, let's, let's dig into this thing, like we're really into this,

0:07:59 Lydia: Yeah.

0:08:00 Eli: Yeah. Yeah, Ana and Max fucking love puzzles. Jigsaw kind, riddle kind, any kind of puzzle if Max isn't feeling discouraged about it, he's all about Big time puzzler.

0:08:04 Lydia: Hmm.

0:08:04 Thomas: The jigsaw kind or So here's a fun thing, you, when you do, when you try to screen your kids for anything like this, and I guess we'll just speak for the Kaiser experience, you need to do the same conversation that's like two hours long with different people. Four times.

0:08:22 Eli: Ting!

0:08:19 Lydia: Oh my god. It was so much. I told Thomas this is my full-time job right now, like having to just navigate like every single appointment and having the same conversation, and it's not like I was doing it alone, Thomas was there too, but it was like the paperwork after everything.

0:08:31 Thomas: Yeah.

0:08:40 Eli: But he was playing games on his phone. Lion on his back.

0:08:41 Lydia: No, no, no, he was very involved

0:08:43 Thomas: Lydia did handle the paperwork and the scheduling thing. I I'm really appreciated that she handled that end of but, you know, I have a, I'm very active in the meetings and the talking about, because I love talking about the kids. It's like my favorite thing. I'll talk about the kids all day. Do, cause like the first time you do it, it's like I don't know if I'd say heavy, but like, you're very invested in like, yeah, here's, what's going on with my kid. Here are these things that are, you know, that are interesting here, these things that are issues that we're really worried about. Like it's a very important discussion, you know, it's like a heavy weighty, yeah.

0:08:47 Lydia: The follow-up phone calls. Oh my

0:09:11 Eli: Yeah.

0:09:13 Lydia: It's also like the first time you're saying a lot of this out loud and kind of piecing it together yourself too, right? So like there's a little bit of like relief from that, and I think you end up talking more as part of that, but then they're like a week later they're Like, and again, yeah.

0:09:17 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, and then she's like, well, I'm actually just the janitor. You have to tell me before you tell anyone who matters, and you're like, oh, why did we do that for literally like three hours for one of them? Like, it was just forever.

0:09:28 Lydia: God. It was very long.

0:09:27 Eli: Yeah. Mm hmm. And it's not just that too, but like, because so much of the process is parent reporting, You're so worried about saying the wrong thing, right? Like, am I underplaying it? Am I overplaying it, right? Because that's a- am I misinterpreting

0:09:46 Thomas: Yep,

0:09:41 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Am I misinterpreting this one thing that they did this one time?

0:09:51 Eli: Things, right? Because we hear about, parents getting their kids misdiagnosed on a pretty regular basis. We also hear people reporting on their diagnosis and their symptoms. We have a bunch of neurodivergent people in our lives. Obviously, you guys know me, you've and heard, like, my experience of getting Max diagnosed, and you've met Max, and we know neurodiverse people, and so it just confabulates in your brain into, like, am I projecting this onto my kid? How do I test for that? Especially when it comes to any of the ADD, ADHD stuff, so much of that is wildly over-diagnosed, and we're aware of that, but then also a ton of it is under-diagnosed and under-treated, and we're aware of that, and so you just get super in your head about it. Now, Smiths, may I ask you a question? Because I have only podcasted with you. I have not been in a doctor's appointment. No matter how many times I've asked, you never let me come.

0:09:51 Lydia: Yeah. Mm-hmm yeah, exactly Mm-hmm.

0:10:14 Thomas: Yeah, Yeah. It is.

0:10:40 Thomas: You can come, I don't give a shit.

0:10:41 Eli: Do you guys talk—how do you guys—here's how—I'm trying to put this delicately.

0:10:45 Lydia: Oh wow.

0:10:45 Thomas: Oh wow, whatever this is, I'm very interested. Whatever this

0:10:50 Eli: I'm trying to say this without calling out anyone I may or may not be married to. How is the interrupting situation when you're talking to a doctor?

0:10:54 Thomas: Uh Who, who interrupting whomst?

0:11:00 Lydia: Handle it okay.

0:11:02 Eli: Anybody! It's not important who interrupts who. It's...

0:11:05 Lydia: Yeah I don't think either of us interrupt each other actually.

0:11:08 Thomas: Yeah, I did, I tried really, I tried, I try really hard to not interrupt Lydia. Obviously I have ADHD, so I fail sometimes.

0:11:08 Eli: God, sounds It's fuckin' nice.

0:11:17 Lydia: Yeah.

0:11:17 Thomas: I try really hard. I interrupt the doctor all the time, mainly because it is really hard. I don't blame the doctor at all, but it is really hard to try to communicate these things about another person to another person. Cause it's like, you have in your mind, all these interactions with your child that you're trying to sum up in a certain way. And then they kind of give their own thing on it. One in particular that I felt very strongly about, it's, I don't know how much it matters, but it was know, does she have any repetitive things she does?

And you talked about her lip or whatever, picking at her lip. She's like, oh, okay. So she has like a tick of picking up on her lip. And I was like, no, no, no, no, it's not that. Cause like for me, it was very important to clarify. She only picks at things if there's something like wrong with it. Like she doesn't have a repetitive tick of doing the same thing no matter what. I think this is more of the ADHD thing of like, you can't stop picking at something that's bothering you,

0:11:47 Lydia: Picking, mm-hmm.

0:12:09 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:12:09 Thomas: Which is a lot different from what Arlo has, he has some autistic tics that are repetitive, know, things that he does over and over for no particular reason. I don't know how important that is, like but when she would say it as like, oh, okay, so she's got this, this tic, it was like, I had to interrupt it after and be like, no, I don't think that was quite right. Like, I don't think that's what it was, you know, stuff like that.

0:12:29 Eli: Mm-hmm.

0:12:29 Lydia: Yeah, usually—Thomas has a lot of really great observations about the kids and stuff, so when we're sitting in doctor's appointments together, a lot of times when they ask particular questions, I can kind of tell, oh, Thomas is going to have a lot to say on this. And so I just let him lead it, and then I'll chime in here and there.

0:12:45 Thomas: She's like, oh, he's going to podcast now.

0:12:47 Lydia: Well, I just like, I feel like I can kind of sense it. Or because Thomas and I have had conversations already about those things, and so I know that he has specific examples he can use, so I just kind of figure out when to lead.

0:12:47 Eli: Oh, God, here's the podcast.

0:12:48 Thomas: Yeah, no.

0:13:00 Thomas: Right, but Lydia is spending more time with them like in the mornings, which is crucial time. She has a lot of those observations So it's really interesting team effort and then God Nothing is more stressful than the forms. They're making us fill out separately. Did you have to do that?

0:13:04 Lydia: Right.

0:13:14 Eli: Yeah,

0:13:14 Lydia: The parent questionnaire and one for each parent.

0:13:15 Thomas: Yeah, and I'm so stressed that

0:13:15 Eli: Mm-hmm.

0:13:18 Lydia: We're very different for Arlo, by the way. I know. I'm leaving my answers, but

0:13:19 Thomas: Oh God, yeah, I was like shit. Am I going to be revealed as like I don't know anything about my kid

0:13:23 Lydia: Yeah. I have the exact same fear on my side, so yeah.

0:13:27 Thomas: Yeah, it's like so stressful.

0:13:28 Eli: Thomas, you called your son, Garlo.

0:13:33 Thomas: It, those ones are hard, especially because they give you like fucking four different answers. You know, it's like always, sometimes, never, you know, it's like that doesn't work for so many things. So it's like, okay, he doesn't, it's specific context. Like that's a hard one where it'll be like, he will do this in a specific scenario, but only that scenario. Does that mean always or sometimes, you know, it's just like kind of crazy

0:13:47 Lydia: Right. It depends yeah

0:13:56 Eli: You need a flowchart that you can be like, if then... To give your particular answer. The other thing, and I know you guys didn't deal with this with Phoebe, I dealt with this with Max, is like, The thing that made a lot of those questionnaires and testing hard for us was, Look at him.

0:13:59 Lydia: Mm-hmm

0:13:59 Thomas: Yeah

0:14:14 Lydia: Hahahaha.

0:14:15 Eli: Like... My son has autism. I love him. He's amazing. He's wonderful. He has fucking autism. You could tell my son has autism from a distance at which you cannot see his face, right? Like if there are kids playing on a playground far away from me, I can spot my son by the flapping. I get it, right?

0:14:17 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:14:17 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:14:25 Lydia: Hahahaha. Yeah. Mmm.

0:14:35 Eli: And were- so when I was on question 86 of like, Does he sometimes like fucking just show him finding Dory.

0:14:37 Thomas: Yeah, you're like, just fucking... Yeah.

0:14:43 Eli: You see that? You see that? That's autism. Now give him the pill or whatever. For

0:14:46 Thomas: I get

0:14:43 Lydia: Well, It's so interesting too because Phoebe's a girl and so it presents so differently, but she also struggles with anxiety and we've had a lot of issues with anger that we weren't sure what it was exactly stemming from for a long time. It was so really hard to identify, like, is this something that... know she's nine and, you know, starting the very beginnings of puberty and the hormones are starting to go through her body. You know, is it related to that? And kind of figuring out what is what.

0:14:54 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:15:12 Thomas: Yeah. But I was pretty insistent that like this isn't normal like this amount of anger, you know is not normal

0:15:18 Lydia: Yeah, the anger was really, really rough. But I think like what helped was we just tried to comment honestly about everything with like zero expectation about what any of it meant.

0:15:25 Thomas: Yeah, Yeah, yeah, No, it's definitely just, I just wanted it to be accurate, like, whatever it is, I want it to be right, like, that's all I want. Here's another thing that I'm sure a lot of people with neurodivergent kids maybe have experienced is every time you describe anything to anyone, it's like, well, she's a kid. It's like, okay, Yeah, I know, I, I have kids, like, I have two other kids, I know that.

0:15:28 Lydia: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

0:15:45 Eli: Oh, yeah, of course. The best part is when a parent does that to you when their kid very clearly is neurodivergent. They're like, that's just a kid thing and you're like, your kid is head bonking right right now while we are talking.

0:15:54 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think like we've also heard from some non-parents too And I'm like, okay, you don't need to say anything.

0:16:11 Thomas: Is the Yeah, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

0:16:13 Lydia: So,

0:16:14 Thomas: And I don't blame them, it's just you also don't have a, like the timing is very different. For Like example, now I think it's funny that if we were to do Arlo's autism thing, which we are going to do, because he didn't officially get the diagnosis, but although he kind of also did, it was kind of funny, we can say that in a second, but now I feel it's not quite like Max, but Arlo is closer to that know, than you might think where it's like, yeah, just look at him. Yeah, just like, hey, Arlo, Godzilla.

0:16:38 Lydia: It's more clear, yeah, yeah.

0:16:41 Thomas: And then he'll just say every Godzilla movie, yeah.

0:16:41 Eli: Yeah

0:16:42 Lydia: Yeah, and I'll be like, the run time of Godzilla versus Mechagodzilla is an hour and 32 minutes.

0:16:48 Thomas: It was pretty funny. I got to have that experience at a gathering for Lydia's birthday on Friday where I was like, yep, Arlo, you know, yep, he's talking to another parent. Yeah, he's autistic. And then it's like hey buddy watch it with you know, what are you into lately? It's like oh the Godzilla movies and I was like, yeah, he knows the year of Every Godzilla movie pretty much and I got to have this moment of like, yeah, that is pretty fucking weird, isn't it? Cuz like at home, we're just like, oh, that's that silly thing that Arlo does.

0:17:05 Lydia: Let's talk kaiju.

0:17:16 Eli: Yeah it's my kid.

0:17:17 Thomas: Yeah, he likes to just say the day He's like, oh that came out in 1954 for some reason

0:17:21 Lydia: The date, the run time, the rating also.

0:17:23 Thomas: Yeah, oh there he cares a lot about ratings

0:17:24 Eli: Oh.

0:17:25 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, he's like, this is rated, yeah, PG. And then I'm allowed to watch certain movies that are rated R, but these are the only ones I'm allowed.

0:17:26 Thomas: Very weird. Yeah. Yeah. And so now it's funny in retrospect, when he was four, when we tried to do the diagnosis, there were so many things that were like, well, they could also just be four, you know, but now, she literally told us then like, Hey, keep an eye on these things. If they stay the same, it's autism. If they get, if they change, yeah, Then it's, it's, then it's not. I think she was good at her job because that was absolutely the truth and so now it's more in the

0:17:32 Eli: Nice.

0:17:39 Lydia: Yeah. The Resolver, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's become more clear over time.

0:17:54 Thomas: Yeah

0:17:54 Eli: What's that thing they say in the Christmas Carol he was as good as use this word and better.

0:17:58 Thomas: So funny why are you on that topic yeah

0:18:00 Eli: Boy, what autism is

0:17:59 Lydia: Yeah, Arlo super clear, Phoebe was more challenging and we just went through so many phone calls and so many video visits of explaining the same things over and over and over again. And then we get to finally the, like, in-person assessment.

0:18:13 Thomas: Yeah The final boss, yeah

0:18:18 Eli: The final boss you had to punch the red spot on on the doctor.

0:18:19 Lydia: Yeah,

0:18:20 Thomas: Bowser and you got it, yeah, hit the axe and then the somehow that makes the bridge go

0:18:23 Eli: Yeah

0:18:25 Lydia: So the in-person assessment, I think Phoebe was really nervous about it because, like, she associates doctors with probably needing to go get shots and stuff and she doesn't like that, and she also, you know, not knowing what to expect she was worried about that a little bit but then I just tried to tell her like, no, you're just gonna be doing like games and tests and like you know, probably playing with some toys and, you know, we're, who's really really nice and I've met her and, you know, she's great, I think you'll really like her, and then she seemed open to it, but I think there was like still maybe a little bit of nervousness still, and then at one point in between the first part of the test and the second part of the test they were doing COVID and flu shots in the hall and I was like, I'm just gonna go get this done right now, and I didn't make her get hers, and so I, like, think that helped her too, knowing like, okay,

0:18:37 Thomas: Was she nervous about it? She was excited about it, too. Yeah, and then she was excited about

0:19:10 Lydia: I'm not gonna be forced to get this shot right now.

0:19:10 Thomas: She is so scared of shots, it's the weirdest thing.

0:19:12 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. But she's gonna have to go in anyway. So during the test, asked if I could join her for like the first part, when it was just sort of like the cognitive testing. And so I just like sat in the background and you know, like up against the wall and just like kind of, you know, was quiet and was watching her and stuff. And the doctor had said, you know, we anticipate this part of the test usually takes between like 45 minutes, maybe an hour. It took an hour and 30 minutes. And it's because Phoebe just wanted to keep going with all of like the logic puzzles and everything.

0:19:41 Thomas: Yeah, she just loves, she wants to do the puzzles. She's so smart. She wanted to give bigger answers, yeah.

0:19:47 Eli: Oh, yeah.

0:19:45 Lydia: She didn't want to give up ever. Some of the questions that they were asking, like regarding, you know, these like really ambiguous things, like in what ways are fingerprints and a shadow the same? And Phoebe was like, you can't separate them from your body. Like they're always a part of you. And I was like, that is so interesting. I was like, I don't know how I would answer that question.

0:20:01 Thomas: Interesting. Yeah, that's a good one. I would answer different

0:20:01 Eli: Ooh. People.

0:20:06 Lydia: But yeah, it was like such a, I don't know, like this really reflective, answer from her.

0:20:06 Thomas: Than that, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

0:20:13 Lydia: And again, she's nine years old. And so we go through all the cognitive testing. Like I said, it took an hour and a half when it was expected to take like 45 minutes to maybe an hour. And then she went back in separately for the more like social observational sort of element of the test. And Eli is, you know, like you walk away from those things, not knowing it's going to be, right? The doctor said like, yeah, yeah.

0:20:34 Eli: Well, you, you walk away from that thing. Ha ha ha ha

0:20:37 Lydia: The doctor had said, you know, like if we have some time at the end, I like to give feedback kind of same day, so you're not waiting in the dark, but because the first part of the test took so long, she was like, no, I'm gonna have to call you guys tomorrow with some feedback. And then we had to wait longer for the report writing, but pretty quickly, I really didn't know, I didn't know how it was gonna land because like when I was watching the cognitive stuff, didn't, I'm not seeing her face and then I wasn't there for like the social part of the testing, so I didn't know what that was like.

0:20:38 Eli: Ha!

0:21:07 Eli: You went on a girl's weekend,

0:21:08 Lydia: Yeah, I went on a girl's week and I can exactly see ya,

0:21:07 Thomas: Yeah, had too much cum on her face. She can.

0:21:15 Eli: I love the idea that this is someone's first episode and they have no idea what that's

0:21:19 Thomas: Yeah.

0:21:18 Lydia: Quickly on that call, she just was like, I'm going to be diagnosing Phoebe with autism, and we both were like, oh, okay, tell us more.

0:21:25 Thomas: Yeah, it was like the first thing she said. Okay. Yeah.

0:21:30 Eli: Did you have the thing, because this was interesting, because our doctor fucking rocks. I love our doctor so much. Straight shooter, he's been doing it for 97 years. And I know that's problematic in a lot of situations, but it's exactly what we needed where the case is like, look at because what we have a lot, especially in like school environments or environments where they don't know how we're gonna react is they'll be like, So, Max?

0:21:39 Thomas: Wow. Yeah.

0:21:54 Eli: Is? And we have to be like, autistic as fuck and them being like, right, yes, okay, cool, so we're gonna do this, this, right? Because a lot of the time they're sitting there with parents who are going like, No, you just need to fucking make him right, I will not be autistic on the chalkboard, cuz that's what Bart Simpson did and now he's

0:21:57 Thomas: What? Yeah. They got parents in denial. Yeah. Yeah, God. So upsetting.

0:21:53 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's because of all the Tylenol you took when you were pregnant.

0:22:14 Eli: Now he's a businessman. Yeah, exactly. So did you get any of that or was she she knew you would be cool?

0:22:16 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. Oh, no.

0:22:16 Lydia: Yeah, no, I think because of the conversations we were having before and stuff too, like we're both pretty clear about where we're at.

0:22:24 Thomas: Well, and we're armatures over here on level one autism. We got a bunch of level one autists, It was marginal, and I'll tell you, it, there was one of the things that I actually didn't agree with for the B or whatever she had the a things

0:22:29 Eli: Yeah

0:22:28 Lydia: Yeah, Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, you guys went back and forth on that a little bit.

0:22:38 Thomas: Yeah cuz I was like, I don't think that's quite right like Yeah, well, again, it's like she gets five seconds

0:22:41 Eli: Bring her on S.I.O. She turns into a right-wing podcaster the next week. Oh, that's weird. That happened to our doctor?

0:22:47 Thomas: Yeah she Yeah, she gets a few minutes with Phoebe and it's like, I, you, I live with her, I'd like, anyway, and and that one thing I think, because of how slight it was, that almost could have swung it. I don't know like it cuz it might have so she's again. She's borderline but it does make sense

0:23:02 Lydia: I think it might have, yeah. And then the doctor's position was like, well I also suspect that she has ADHD and that might be counteracting what we see here, like it sort of, it doesn't amplify it, it sort of kind of switches it off in some ways too, so like that's why it makes it so complicated when you have the comorbidity.

0:23:11 Thomas: Mmm, yeah, right Sometimes yeah yeah, is interesting too to think about though, like, how much should you care about a diagnosis or how, not care, but like, when you look at something that could be 50-50,

0:23:30 Eli: Yeah, because you guys fucking hate Phoebe, so like, why even bother?

0:23:32 Lydia: Hahaha.

0:23:34 Eli: Is what Thomas kept saying.

0:23:33 Thomas: When you look at something that's 50-50, no, I think it's interesting it's, and and it's, I think it's scary to realize how much the label does, like how much work a label does, You know, because it's like, imagine if she's like 52, 48 and the difference between being like, well, she's autistic. Then all of a sudden you're putting her in a different category in your brain. And like, you're thinking of her differently and you're like all this stuff the label does. If not us, then society, you know? Part of me is a little bit hesitant just, reading too much into her by just giving her this label that barely applies this kind of

0:23:41 Lydia: Yeah. Right

0:24:06 Eli: Can I give you my two cents on that as someone who has watched a kid with a label? It fucking rocks. Because the best people will see that label, recognize where your kid needs support, and help them thrive losing... the Because fear, and tell me if I'm wrong on this, is that they'll miss the human being. They'll see a diagnosis and your then kid stops existing, right?

0:24:08 Lydia: Always

0:24:08 Thomas: Sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

0:24:31 Eli: It's just, well, I have one autistic kid in my class. What's their name? What are they like? Doesn't matter. I have an autistic kid in my class and they need autism things to help them with their autism. You get—you still have great teachers and bad teachers and people who get it and people who don't. We have a fucking amazing teacher this year. I mean, we have a teacher—it's unfair, because his teacher last year was lovely and she really worked very hard. But when your kid—and you know this—when your kid has an amazing teacher, it kind of shits on the work the other teachers did.

0:24:31 Lydia: Mm-hmm Hmm. Yeah,

0:25:00 Thomas: Yeah. Yep.

0:25:02 Eli: You're like, mmm, well, Yeah, is like, have you have a teacher who's so amazing that it puts the whole thing in context? And, like, what I have seen is a world because I had very, very similar fears, and I think it is because I was thinking about how my generation of teachers and professionals treated the autistic kids I knew, right?

0:25:02 Thomas: That's how I feel about Arlo's teacher.

0:25:02 Lydia: Yeah.

0:25:21 Thomas: Hmm.

0:25:21 Eli: So I've talked about this before, my best childhood friend growing up was really, more autistic than Max is. Right, I think he was diagnosed as Asperger's, I don't know if they use that anymore, because you help one Nazi kill a bunch of kids and then all of a sudden you're canceled. It's gross, people, it's learned to forgive. But he was diagnosed as burgers when we were kids, and like he was just bullied by everybody. Bullied by his parents, bullied by our teachers, bullied by our cohort. I was his only friend in many ways, and the fact that he had this diagnosis just sort of made him weird, and I was so worried about that happening to Max. And I've just watched the opposite happen. Like, something really interesting that's happened this year is, you know, kindergarten was rough for socialization for Max. We dealt with some hitting, some keeping our hands to our self issues, but also just like other kids being afraid of Max, right?

0:25:28 Thomas: Hmm. Hmm.

0:26:10 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:26:14 Eli: Worried by his behavior, not liking the things that he did and said. And what I am watching happen this year is kids recognize that Max is different, but meet him where he is.

0:26:15 Thomas: No.

0:26:24 Thomas: Hmm.

0:26:25 Eli: That it is no longer Kindergarteners going, this kid's different and I don't get it. They're going, this kid's different but I still want to be his friend. Still want to play with him. You know, my sister took him to, and partly it's because he's so fucking cute, but my sister took him to the high school like Halloween thing for the whole school district. And all the kids from his school, older kids, younger kids, everybody ran over and was like, oh my god, Max!

0:26:50 Eli: And like took pictures with him and hugged him because he is so warm and affectionate, but also because they recognize he is someone deserving of more care, I think the difference between our generation and now is like, when there were autistic people in our life, at the very best we sort of held them at arm's length, right? And thought like, well, don't bully that person, or that person acts that way because of the thing they do.

0:27:08 Thomas: Mhm. Yeah, like best case scenario.

0:27:14 Eli: Right, best case scenario. And now we really See like genuinely like what the word accommodation is meant to mean right we see accommodation for neurodivergent kids So I think it's really wonderful

0:26:50 Lydia: Oh Right,

0:27:14 Thomas: Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. And when I was gonna tell the story originally when this happened, the funny thing was, is obviously we were both, I don't—I wouldn't say fretting, but we're like, okay, how are we going to tell Phoebe? Like, because there's, you know, there's a lot of conversation about, you know, some people are like, "Oh, just don't even tell them," you know, like don't tell them, you don't want them to feel different. You don't, you know, and I didn't think that, I don't think I entertained that at all, but some people think it was also like, Phoebe can be very sensitive in certain ways. And so I had a whole plan. I was like, okay, we're going to lead off with the fact that she's a genius and she nailed all those tests about the shadows and the fingerprints and the, and the person, the doctor did go on and on about that.

0:27:39 Lydia: Yeah.

0:28:06 Lydia: And she's like, incredibly bright girl.

0:28:08 Thomas: Yeah, she was like really impressed. I was like, okay, I'll use that.

0:28:11 Lydia: And she said, you know, the reason why a lot of this took so long was because Phoebe was doing stuff that, like, I do with the 16-year-old clients. Like, I just kept going, and she was doing stuff that high schoolers are doing with a lot of those spatial reasoning things.

0:28:21 Thomas: Yeah. Super cool to hear that. And so I was like, I'm going to do that because Phoebe loves that Phoebe loves feeling smart and I'll lead off with that, but the funny was, I really don't think I needed to, because Phoebe, pretty soon on, she was, like, excited that she was autistic.

0:28:31 Lydia: Mm-hmm. It seems like that there aren't any negative connotations with that stuff, at least at her school or for her experience, right? That, like, and she has someone in their after-school program, another kid that is a little more extensive with autism and some other supports and stuff that he needs, she gets along with him fine, and she, you know, sometimes he acts differently than the other kids, but She thinks, he's also really funny and he can be really kind in certain ways and like we'll randomly make them drawings and stuff. She So has positive experiences too. And like, that's a very, I don't know, open thing that's happening at their school,

0:28:40 Thomas: For her, at least, yeah.

0:28:43 Eli: No.

0:29:11 Thomas: Yeah. She was like all happy about it. I was like, Oh, did you, were you excited to be like, were you wanting this? I think I asked her like, Oh, were you wanting it to be a Yes. And she was like, yeah, cause I just want to feel special.

0:29:17 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Special. Mm-hmm.

0:29:23 Thomas: Yeah. She was like, she wanted to feel like there's something special about her, which is interesting.

0:29:26 Lydia: Yeah, Yeah. She said, "Scoliosis is one way that I'm unique, and this is another way I'm unique," and it was just really lovely, like just her reaction. To So then we have a friend visiting and stuff. This was right after she found out she was diagnosed and the kids all yeah, yeah, and the kids all know him and, you know, had like a relationship with him and stuff for a couple years, and she's like leaning on the couch, but they haven't seen him in a long time, so they were, you know, catching up and stuff. And she's laying on the top of this couch that we have as he's standing next to the couch. And she

0:29:28 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. It's really nice.

0:29:32 Eli: That's awesome.

0:29:40 Thomas: Yeah. It was like that day.

0:29:56 Thomas: Yeah, one of the questions was, can she sit normally ever? The answer was no. That is one of the screeners. Like, does she normally sit when she, yeah, no, she can't, yeah.

0:30:00 Lydia: Yeah. Just fidget. Yeah, no.

0:30:04 Eli: My god, I just discovered my wife is autistic!

0:30:07 Thomas: No, the ADHD one. But

0:30:09 Lydia: So she's laying across like the top of the couch and she just looks up at him and she goes, I'm a little bit autistic. I

0:30:15 Thomas: She goes, I'm a little bit autistic. Yeah. And it's like out of nowhere. It wasn't the conversation.

0:30:20 Lydia: Nope.

0:30:20 Thomas: It wasn't that's a, that's displaying the ADHD part of the audio HD.

0:30:21 Lydia: Out of nowhere. We were talking about other stuff and she just interrupts the conversation to say it in like that very particular way too. We just all started laughing. Oh my god, it was so funny. Yeah. But she was like really excited. And I wasn't expecting that at all.

0:30:24 Thomas: Yeah So funny

0:30:38 Lydia: Because with scoliosis, she really gets anxious and doesn't want people to notice it about her if she doesn't know them and stuff. And like, she tends to be a little more private about the fact that she wears a brace until she's like super comfortable. And I guess it could be that she just felt comfortable kind of being open with him. But again, they hadn't seen him in a while. So I don't know, it just really caught me off guard that she just was like so incredibly open.

0:30:38 Thomas: Hmm yeah Well it also was just not even the conversation, like she just blurted it out, it's so funny. Well the other side of that is, did she tell her teacher for ADHD that she had ADHD? And the teacher, yeah, yeah, even though we kind of told her, she, because we, yeah,

0:31:06 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, just blurted it ADHD, mm-hmm, before she was diagnosed. We said you might, think, they think that you have it, we're gonna do the, you know, we're gonna submit the questionnaires and stuff, VB, and we'll know more.

0:31:22 Eli: Spoilers!

0:31:23 Thomas: The person, yeah, it was spoilers, but we knew. She's way more ADHD than she is autistic, like that, that would have been an easier diagnosis, I think.

0:31:32 Lydia: If you've seen her backpack, it would be very

0:31:34 Thomas: Yeah. And this was interesting, and this is perhaps a what not to do possibly, the, but she told her teacher and the teacher said, Oh, I know. Because you're exactly like this other kid who has it. And Phoebe was very upset about this because

0:31:42 Lydia: Because you're exactly like so-and-so. Yeah.

0:31:49 Eli: That's a HIPAA violation, dammit!

0:31:52 Thomas: No, her perception was that the teacher didn't like this other kid, like her perception was like that this other kid's a troublemaker he's annoying and I don't know if Phoebe doesn't like him, but I'm pretty sure she told me that she doesn't think the teacher likes that kid. And so anything that's like possibly going to be a bad reflection on Phoebe at all, she's so sensitive to, which is why we were worried about this, just like in case she had like a negative view on it. And so I guess we're really fortunate that in this day and age she didn't. And she just was like totally happy to be a little bit autistic.

0:31:58 Lydia: Annoying. Yeah. Yeah, that's what she told me.

0:32:25 Thomas: But yeah, I feel like that, Eli, I don't know if you have thoughts on that, but like I feel like that's a bit of a fuck up by the teacher. Like, I don't know if the teacher should say, yeah, we know, you

0:32:22 Lydia: Mm-hmm,

0:32:36 Eli: Yeah, it's tough, because there's a humanity to that, right? You want a casualness to it, right? You want the teacher to accept it in a way that genteel and a part of, You want your kid to wake up and think about their autism the way they think about their glasses, right? Like, ah, one second, I gotta go get my autism out of the car, right?

0:32:39 Thomas: Yeah.

0:32:42 Lydia: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

0:32:57 Eli: I didn't realize I needed my autism. I'd be reading from a distance. I'd be around loud noises, right? And so there is a part of that, but it's so tricky because I think teachers define so much of kids' self worth, right? And, like, they're just never aware of the baggage kids are carrying around being identified as anything. So it's tough. It's really, really tough.

0:33:08 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:33:17 Thomas: Yeah, well, and I got the impression, I wasn't there, but I got the impression that like, maybe it was a tone of like, yeah, that's why you've been such a pain in the ass, you know, which I think is a really tough thing to do to a kid because, you know, Phoebe is rambunctious. She interrupts a lot. She has a real problem with interrupting. She has a problem with staying in her seat. She has a problem with, you know, yeah. So a lot of, a lot of the ADHD stuff, a lot of the, some of the autism stuff. And I worry that that communicated to her like, yeah, we know because you've been a pain in the ass, you know, I'm worried that that's what she took with.

0:33:26 Lydia: Yeah.

0:33:35 Lydia: Following direction, listening,

0:33:25 Eli: Mmm, yep. Yeah, I mean that is why my son is a pain in the ass, so I really relate. And not with Phoebe. But I really like, if someone said that to Max, I'd be like, ah man, I mean, yeah, but come on, dog. Fucking be cool King Queen.

0:33:50 Thomas: Yeah.

0:33:59 Thomas: Be cool. Yeah, exactly. Be chill.

0:34:01 Eli: Yeah, maybe it's a be chill situation It's like yeah, obviously oh You don't say It's like when the couple who you knew was gonna break up breaks up. You can't be like oh, yeah You have to be like oh Are you okay?

0:33:59 Lydia: Yeah, be chill, be Yeah, exactly, exactly.

0:34:04 Thomas: Yeah. Give it a give it a Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah, that. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Duh. Yeah.

0:34:22 Eli: You're glowing

0:34:18 Lydia: Mm-hmm, yeah, exactly, yeah, Yeah, so now we're on the we're on the other end of autism and

0:34:25 Thomas: You're not glowing. Yeah, we got through it. She's done. She's over it

0:34:32 Lydia: Well, And just I'm now my other full-time job, which is scheduling all of the support services and, like, we haven't even brought it I didn't bring it to school yet because as I was waiting on the ADHD side, now that I have the ADHD diagnosis as well, now I have to go schedule all the stuff with the school and have those conversations, get the IEP going.

0:34:50 Eli: Can get your IEP.

0:34:51 Thomas: I Got A question for you, Eli, because they said one of the things is, like, "Alright, here's the resource." It's a fucking nine-week class.

0:34:59 Lydia: Eight weeks.

0:35:00 Thomas: Eight-week class on Wednesdays, you go somewhere, your parents are in a separate room, and the Phoebe's in a separate room for an hour and a half, and I was like, "There is no fucking way I'm doing that" in a billion years A billion years.

0:35:05 Lydia: For about an hour and a half.

0:35:10 Eli: Yeah, so that is almost certainly, and let me not get myself in trouble, that is almost certainly ABA therapy, and there is a modern

0:35:22 Lydia: Oh, no, this one's on the ADHD side, hun.

0:35:24 Thomas: Yeah, I didn't say it. Yeah, it's the ADHD thing. Sorry, I didn't say that.

0:35:25 Eli: Oh, okay. No, I said that. I said that. I'm the one who talks like this. Thomas is the one who talks like this. So for the ADHD class, oh interesting. So I'll tell you what we've been through, right? Which is that insurance will often only cover therapies for kids if they are a certain amount of hours in a month.

0:35:28 Thomas: Yeah. Okay.

0:35:38 Lydia: Yeah. Mm.

0:35:46 Eli: Right, and so like when we were getting Max ABA therapy, for example, which modern ABA therapy is very different than old school, Skinnerian, shock your kid until they're not autistic anymore therapy. But the program is still like, most programs won't do less than 30 hours a month. Which I don't know if you know, is every day.

0:36:03 Thomas: Hmm.

0:36:06 Lydia: Don't we don't even know what is on, because ABA is one of the referrals that we got, and in order to get set up with all of the ABA classes and everything that we'll be doing there, and those services, they said expect another two hour intake to have with them

0:36:20 Thomas: Oh my God.

0:36:20 Eli: Yup, because you have to do an intake with the center, yes. They do their own thing own, because ABA is different than just a general diagnosis, it's like where does your kid actually need the therapy and how can we help them and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, no, it's fuckin'...

0:36:21 Thomas: God, I know is one time

0:36:34 Eli: Nuts.

0:36:23 Lydia: Yeah, exactly Yeah Right

0:36:34 Thomas: I had to go to a group depression class in Kaiser and I wanted to kill myself. I had to, it was the worst thing.

0:36:39 Eli: Well, that's what the group to question class was for.

0:36:41 Thomas: Yeah. That's how they're trying to help people with depression.

0:36:43 Lydia: They're trying to weed the people

0:36:44 Thomas: They're trying to get rid of them. Cause it was like, I don't know if it's just, look, these things are going to be for the lowest common denominator because they are for everybody, know, and the depression class was like, literally, like, what is depression, I was like, I'm gonna die, I'm going to die, I can't sit through this

0:37:02 Eli: About the Tom Segura line, you ever talk to someone so boring you feel like they poisoned you? That's how those meetings make me feel, is like, ugh!

0:37:09 Thomas: And so the idea that we're gonna do like an hour and a half, by the way, we have to tell Phoebe that she's got to be separated from us. She'll hate that. She'll go nuts. She'll be really nervous.

0:37:17 Lydia: But she'll be with a bunch of other kids her age, yeah she will, the first time and then she'll make friends.

0:37:19 Thomas: Yeah, she will be very nervous. And it's some sort of class that you have to sit through. She's not gonna be able to listen to that. I'm not gonna be able to listen to ours because I could read it.

0:37:29 Lydia: I'll do it, it's fine.

0:37:30 Eli: Ha ha ha ha!

0:37:31 Thomas: Whatever it is, I could read it in three minutes, whatever it'll be, whatever it is.

0:37:35 Lydia: Yeah I'll bring you back the PowerPoint slides and then you'll be up to date,

0:37:37 Thomas: Yeah, I can't imagine doing that. Am I a bad parent for that? I can't imagine doing that.

0:37:39 Eli: Yeah. No,

0:37:39 Lydia: Yeah. Think that's your ADHD, uh-huh,

0:37:42 Eli: No. So I am the meeting parent, right? So I'm the Lydia in this situation, right? And I get it.

0:37:48 Thomas: Jesus no wonder you're so miserable

0:37:51 Eli: Yeah. That's what it is, is I've just sat into every meeting and studied all the slides and written down everyone's email and done the thing. Yeah. The other thing that you'll discover that's a part of those therapies too is that a very wide variety of diagnoses are in those therapies, so a lot of the time you'll be taking your kid into those rooms and you'll see a kid go in who has very severe needs and you'll be like, what?

0:37:59 Lydia: Yeah, Am I in the right place?

0:38:18 Eli: My kid doesn't- are they going in the same room as my kid?

0:38:19 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

0:38:19 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, I think that would freak Phoebe out too. I feel like that would.

0:38:23 Lydia: Yeah, it could.

0:38:23 Eli: Fucking on- focus on that guy, he fucking needs it, don't fucking- just give Max a puzzle while you fucking figure out what's going on over here.

0:38:24 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:38:26 Lydia: He needs more resources. Yeah.

0:38:31 Eli: Jesus, wasting your time on my- He's just an asshole. Hahahaha!

0:38:36 Lydia: It's like, it's just so much information, and so now I'm at the point where I don't even want any of it digitally, I'm gonna print out everything that they've given me so I can put it in a binder or something, just to feel like I have a handle on everything that's happening.

0:38:46 Eli: Yes! Yes, I have many a binder. I have many a binder with sheet protectors, however you need to get through it. I actually just made my my death binder, which is great. You guys have death binders?

0:38:54 Thomas: With useless information wow

0:38:57 Lydia: Did Oh my God, hun? No, because we keep forgetting. I have a note in my phone.

0:39:02 Eli: Okay, gotta make them.

0:39:02 Thomas: Well I've also forgotten to die so That's, take the good with the bad.

0:39:06 Eli: You have a note in your phone?

0:39:08 Lydia: I have a note my phone of yeah, of things I would like to happen.

0:39:11 Thomas: Things sound like not die.

0:39:14 Eli: Got everything done this year, I mean, the said the trust and the will and everything It, can I tell you, there's nothing scarier than when you sign your house over to a trust right when you just go and now the trust owns your house. Like, first of all, I don't trust the law because of the things of the times, right?

0:39:17 Lydia: God, we got to do this

0:39:18 Thomas: Yeah, we should. Yeah. Uh-huh.

0:39:31 Eli: Like, every time, it's funny how the opposite of what that show was supposed to be happened, right?

0:39:37 Thomas: What?

0:39:37 Eli: Because it was like, well, actually laws are nonsense unless you have 80 bajillion dollars. And so there was just a part of me before I signed it that was like, what if it's all a trick? What if it's all a trap and I'm about to sign my house away? But we did that and I made my death binder, which is really funny because it's filled with my jokes. Like I had the lawyer make the binder with all the information. It's like, hey, you call this person then you get this and you get this payment.

0:39:49 Thomas: Yeah.

0:40:03 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:40:04 Eli: But then I've also filled it with my bits, which is pretty enjoyable.

0:40:06 Lydia: Aww.

0:40:08 Thomas: I bequeath you these bits, the following bits.

0:40:10 Eli: Yeah, I'm literally I'm leaving behind quite a few good zingers, which I think Anna will greatly enjoy.

0:40:16 Lydia: How often do you plan on updating those?

0:40:18 Thomas: Yeah, exactly.

0:40:19 Eli: Uh, my bits?

0:40:20 Lydia: Yeah, like if you have more, like some good ones, yeah, yeah.

0:40:22 Thomas: Imagine if you had done this 15 years ago, you'd be like, "Fuck, I'm gonna get cancelled for my death finder."

0:40:28 Lydia: Do you cycle things out, put things in?

0:40:27 Eli: I... That's why you can't cancel me, I'm dead. Yeah,

0:40:29 Thomas: Yeah.

0:40:37 Eli: True. I did make a lot of topical references There's a lot of like, don't forget to sell Kelly Clarkson a bird if yes, you do Uh, so I hope, I hope those...

0:40:43 Thomas: I have no idea what that is

0:40:45 Lydia: You don't know about Kelly Clarkson and the bird?

0:40:46 Thomas: Oh, I thought

0:40:45 Eli: You don't know about this? Oh, fuck, that rules!

0:40:48 Thomas: I thought Eli was doing a random collection of things which would have been a very funny joke.

0:40:51 Lydia: No it's real.

0:40:51 Eli: No, this rules. I know everybody involved, except Kelly Clarkson.

0:40:54 Thomas: Oh, wait. Oh,

0:40:56 Lydia: You know Kelly Clarkson and the bird.

0:40:56 Thomas: Wait, wait, wait, I think I've seen this. No, I, I want to say I resent you saying that. I'm putting together that I've, I've seen something about a store and someone having a thing in...

0:41:05 Lydia: Yes.

0:40:59 Eli: Yes. Yes, so I know the store. I know the store, I know the owners, because it's a magic shop.

0:41:07 Lydia: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:41:10 Thomas: You know the bird?

0:41:12 Eli: I know the bird. I've hung out with that bird.

0:41:13 Lydia: Oh, dang.

0:41:15 Eli: Fuck that bird.

0:41:12 Thomas: You Cool. So someone tried to buy a bird and they sucked or something?

0:41:18 Eli: Yes no she so here's Kelly Clark first of all the American you don't know who that is you know who the American Idol is

0:41:19 Lydia: Someone. Kelly Clarkson. Psalm one, crazy. God, American Idol,

0:41:20 Thomas: I don't know who that is. I don't know who that is. I don't know. I would have told you.

0:41:26 Lydia: The American Idol, season one.

0:41:28 Thomas: If someone said Kelly Clarkson, I'd be like, I think American Idol, Well, the end of things I know, that's it.

0:41:33 Lydia: Oh wow,

0:41:27 Eli: The American you have to divorce him Lydia girl bring it over here you have to divorce him have you deserve better

0:41:34 Lydia: Wow. I think that's the only thing to do.

0:41:38 Thomas: That's how you feel, because I don't care about whatever this is, I can't.

0:41:39 Eli: You have to.

0:41:41 Lydia: I saw her in concert a million years ago. I love Kelly Clarkson.

0:41:43 Thomas: Really?

0:41:43 Eli: Oh my god, she's so great. She's incredible. Such a nice person.

0:41:45 Thomas: Oh, she's actually good? Oh, okay.

0:41:46 Lydia: An incredible voice, incredible.

0:41:48 Eli: She's the American Idol!

0:41:49 Lydia: When it mattered. When it mattered.

0:41:49 Thomas: Yeah, that's a show where an asshole says asshole things.

0:41:51 Lydia: No. No. When it mattered. When it actually, like,

0:41:54 Thomas: And then they get on an ugly older woman, which, oh my God, turns out ugly people could possibly sing, too. Wow, what an insane happenstance. You can't believe

0:41:54 Lydia: It was good.

0:42:05 Eli: That was good, oh it was incredible, it was amazing.

0:42:05 Lydia: Season one was like, like magic. She was amazing.

0:42:10 Eli: Good times.

0:42:09 Thomas: Anyway, I thought you were going to tell me the bird.

0:42:11 Eli: Anyways, she tried to buy a bird and then they were mean to her about it.

0:42:11 Thomas: Oh, okay.

0:42:14 Lydia: Yeah. I you can't afford it.

0:42:17 Thomas: What a great story.

0:42:17 Eli: Anyways, can't afford it.

0:42:19 Thomas: I can't afford it. Now I don't know what you're making up or not. I have no idea.

0:42:22 Lydia: No,

0:42:19 Eli: Yeah, it's great. No, they did. They actually, okay, so here's what actually, yeah, there's back and forth. What actually happened is Kelly Clarkson had never been to Brooklyn before. So I know these people. I'm very biased. I like the people who run the store. Kelly Clarkson had never been to Brooklyn before and she'd never been to a Brooklyn business. If you've been to a Brooklyn business, you walk in and you're, "Hi, I'm here at your ice cream shop for an ice cream because I'm a human being who's real just the way you are," and they're like, "Okay."

0:42:23 Lydia: It's there's some back and forth about what actually happened.

0:42:40 Thomas: Haha

0:42:48 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:42:49 Eli: Let me see if I've got sorry, did you say ice cream?

0:42:53 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Hehe.

0:42:54 Eli: Um Janthur Yeah, there's a guy out here who wants sorry, what was it Yeah, he wants ice cream. Yeah, I've never heard of it either.

0:42:48 Thomas: Hahahaha Yeah Yeah.

0:42:58 Lydia: Ahahahaha.

0:43:08 Lydia: Ahahahaha.

0:43:09 Eli: We're not even bothering to lower our voices. He's an inch from us. We can see him.

0:43:12 Lydia: Ahahahaha.

0:43:13 Eli: He can see us. Yeah, I guess. I guess. Sorry, we were closing because it's already like two minutes after we opened. So that's what happened, right? Now look. Here's the thing.

0:43:13 Thomas: The chanter.

0:43:20 Lydia: Ha ha ha ha ha.

0:43:27 Eli: Should you know who the fuck Kelly Clarkson is, and do you deserve the multitudinous death threats you received from Clark Stans? Yes. Ha ha ha ha!

0:43:27 Thomas: Okay, here's the

0:43:38 Lydia: Ha ha ha ha.

0:43:39 Thomas: God, glad I don't sell birds.

0:43:41 Eli: If I had been in that store, and there's a non-zero chance I had, I would've seen that interaction, and I would've walked over to the owner, who I know, and been like, hey, Kelly Clarkson, that's the American Idol. Yes, say yes right now. She a she got a talk show cuz she's so nice Yeah, they canceled Ellen and they were like fuck we need who's the nicest person they were like Tom Hanks And they were like he doesn't want to do one who's after Tom Hanks, and they were like Kelly Clarkson, okay?

0:43:42 Lydia: Ha ha ha ha. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. She makes everybody happy.

0:43:57 Thomas: I the opposite of Elenya. Oh, wow. Who's in the wrong then if she's always nice that she's

0:44:09 Lydia: Yeah.

0:44:12 Eli: The shop is in the wrong, but then Kelly Clarkson's fans of which I number myself one were too mean they were too mean They were too mean that needs to be a fun. It needs to be a gay Halloween meme, and that's You guys know the gay Halloween meme God, I love the gay Halloween meme it rocks so hard

0:44:13 Thomas: Oh, okay Okay Wow What is

0:44:18 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I do. It's like, I hate gay Halloween. What do you mean and it's like an obscure pop culture reference. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

0:44:33 Eli: Kelly Clarkson in a magic shops bird. What do you mean? You're the labooboo on Karl Marx's grave

0:44:38 Lydia: What do you mean you're the sandwich from Obsession? Like, yeah, yeah.

0:44:41 Eli: Yes exactly yeah He said as he fell asleep in his rocking chair with his pipe between his lips.

0:44:43 Thomas: That I See okay, that's funny. Yeah Oh

0:44:50 Lydia: Okay, we have to do our death binders then, if you're actually gonna like fall asleep from boredom and die, yeah.

0:44:55 Eli: Yes,

0:44:54 Thomas: Because I'm gonna die yeah, no I can hang on to life for longer if it allows me to avoid work

0:44:58 Lydia: Okay.

0:44:56 Eli: You do. As long as we stop talking about the modern culture, he'll make it.

0:45:01 Thomas: Yeah Cash. What else from Phoebe? Let's see. So I'm hoping it'll help. It? Okay. Question for the room. Do you feel like we should tell the friend moms who were like having some problems with Phoebe?

0:45:17 Eli: You jump in jump into that text message thread by the way

0:45:20 Lydia: Not doing it, no.

0:45:21 Thomas: Yeah. No, I don't mean like that. I mean like if anything happens again I feel like it would help them understand that our kids not just being a shit for no reason you know

0:45:31 Lydia: I don't know. I think like Phoebe, from what I understand, Phoebe is actually getting along pretty well with the one girl she did not get along with at all last year. And I think that if it's something that Phoebe wants to tell her about and express to her, then she has the ability to do that. And maybe if another problem came up and they texted me about it, then I might give more clarification at that point.

0:45:38 Thomas: Yeah so Weird. Yeah, and she probably already did. Well, yeah, that is kind of what I meant, but

0:45:52 Lydia: But yeah, I'm not gonna preemptively do it. No. Yeah, by the way. Hahaha,

0:45:52 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, assholes, you remember last year? No? Okay. Well.

0:45:59 Eli: Yeah. I do it so that people know we know they because a lot of parents are very sensitive about that and I'll be like autistic and they're like, oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, cool.

0:46:04 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, good point.

0:46:10 Eli: I, I will often though have to explain to people like part of what's going on with Max is his sensitivities and stuff like that, and that's always cash money and fun. It's a good time.

0:46:27 Eli: All right Smith's before we go What do you call it when two monkeys get together and find out they're perfect for each other? Prime mates

0:46:42 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email thedads at dearolddads.com or better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle and the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues, LLC, copyright 2022, all rights reserved.

0:47:23 Eli: Boy, what autism is I'm the one who talks like this. Thomas is the one who talks like this.

0:47:29 Lydia: You don't know about Kelly Clarkson and the bird?

0:47:34 Eli: You have to divorce him

0:47:37 Thomas: Now I don't know what you're making up or not. I have no idea. Glad I don't sell birds.