DOD303: A Load-Bearing Fantasy

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:29 Eli: Welcome back to Dear Old Dads, the show that is here to assure you that Tom is doing just fine.

0:00:35 Lydia: Woohoo!

0:00:36 Eli: I'm joined, as always, by Thomas Smith. Thomas, welcome back to the program.

0:00:40 Thomas: Hello, Tom is not dead and she's very, what's the God's Not Dead thing, he's very alive.

0:00:44 Eli: Gone.

0:00:44 Thomas: What? Is Did he's surely A lot, that's it, I was like, it's not very alive.

0:00:44 Eli: Tom's not dead, he's surely alive. And that laugh that you just heard is because we are joined, as sometimes, by the one, the only, the glowing Lydia Smith. Lydia, welcome back.

0:00:56 Lydia: Glowing. Hi.

0:00:59 Eli: Hi. Thanks so much for coming back.

0:00:59 Lydia: Thank you. I just had a birthday, by the way.

0:01:02 Eli: Happy birthday, yes, that's right.

0:01:05 Lydia: Yeah, thanks. So I'm glowing even more, I'm glowing one more year,

0:01:06 Eli: Wished your birthday on Facebook. One more year of glow, that's exactly

0:01:11 Lydia: Yes.

0:01:12 Thomas: He Wished you birthday on Facebook, that's funny, it was like an unintentional truth, like, yeah, I said like birthday.

0:01:12 Eli: Right. I did Birthday.

0:01:19 Thomas: Uh, I love that we announced, like, Tom's not dead, and here's episode with not Tom. Tom's not dead, he is Lydia, is what happened.

0:01:27 Lydia: Yeah.

0:01:26 Eli: Yes. Tom's not dead, he's Lydia now, which means, hey, and can I say that's gonna gain us a lot of points Yeah, exactly, turning the frogs gay in the Tom's Lydia. All right. Hey everybody, quick update on Tom. So Tom, and we'll tell you his full medical story when he gets back, I'm sure, or maybe he won't, that is totally up to him and what he decides when he's no longer on Severe painkillers who knows that's Tom's journey

0:01:27 Lydia: Uh-huh, yep. Turning the frogs, gay, yeah.

0:01:32 Thomas: Yeah.

0:01:47 Thomas: I think he will.

0:01:52 Lydia: Or he'll be in the middle of a lawsuit and he can't talk about it, so.

0:01:54 Thomas: Yeah.

0:01:54 Eli: Exactly, yes, what we can tell you is that he is no longer in danger. He is recovering. He is home. He seems relatively comfortable. As comfortable as one can be after surgery. He's in good spirits. He's going to doctor's appointments. He's texting with us. The moment where we had to pause our show, just in case the next one was a very special episode, is over.

0:02:19 Thomas: Yeah.

0:02:19 Lydia: Yay.

0:02:19 Eli: Which means we get to go back to silliness and fun. Now, many of you are wondering, when will Tom be back? I miss his dulcet tones, and so do we. And we don't know. We don't know when Tom's gonna be back. That's gonna be up to when he's doing better. In the meantime, we're gonna have lots of silly fun for you here on Dear Old Dance. And then when Tom is back, he'll tell you all about his hilarious health shenanigans, and we'll be back to the show as usual

0:02:42 Thomas: Tom's health hi jinx. I'll play lots of goofy music and horns and silly

0:02:44 Lydia: Yeah.

0:02:44 Eli: Yes, Yes, exactly But as I said to Thomas before we got on air All I wanted was not to do an episode about coming on someone's face the episode before we had to announce that Tom had passed away.

0:02:58 Lydia: Yeah,

0:02:57 Thomas: Yep. Yeah, or the episode right after, either, you know. You want at least a couple episode separation.

0:03:02 Lydia: Yeah, you don't want that to be a bookend, yeah.

0:03:01 Eli: Right, exactly. Yeah, no, that's And I want to take a moment before we jump into the fun here to say two things. The first is going to be a Patreon plug and the second is not. The first is I just want to thank everybody who maintained their patronage through our month-long brink. Look, we know that for a lot of folks, your Patreon dollars are tight, and donating money to a show that is not making new content can't be fun. But quite literally, I think with the exception of three people, 100% of our patrons stayed. Or 97%, it depends on how you count those numbers. I'm too stupid to know what our numbers are.

0:03:35 Lydia: Hmm.

0:03:36 Thomas: Yeah. And honestly, I'm, I'm happy those three people are gone. What kind of asshole do you have to be to be like, oh, this content creators dying fucking we thought, I'm glad we can say it now.

0:03:43 Eli: Yeah. A dying, yeah.

0:03:48 Lydia: I'm going to take my $1 elsewhere.

0:03:49 Thomas: We literally thought Tom might die. It's not like it was not fun. And so I just anyone who was like they aren't recording just because the guy's dying like big fucking deal. You know, I'm glad they're gone. Just just glad they're gone.

0:03:52 Eli: Yeah! Yeah.

0:04:03 Eli: Just three people. And can I tell you, I guarantee you at least one or two of those three people was just so here's the thing that happens, part of the curtain a little bit if your credit card bounces they send you an email and you you ignore it because Patreon sends you 11 emails a second being like you got to try Squoomp, our new feature. And so you just it just says you're not a patron anymore.

0:04:12 Lydia: Yeah.

0:04:12 Thomas: Yeah, I probably it probably was that. Yeah, yeah. Have you strived, Squoomp, by the way? Don't

0:04:25 Eli: And so I guarantee you one of those two people is listening right now, and they're like, oh, fuck, fuck, fuck, the guys thought we lost. But I did screenshot it, and I did send your names over to Tom, so you know, if you ever come to a live show. He might not be strong by then, so like, come soon is what I'm saying. You could you could tip him.

0:04:25 Thomas: Think Squoomp is very good. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah, forgiveness in sooner

0:04:41 Eli: Yeah, get it, yeah, before he can reach you.

0:04:42 Thomas: Rather than later.

0:04:44 Eli: You stand know, at An arm's length away. So first, I wanted to thank all those generous folks who continued to give us money over at patreon.com/dearolddads where for as little as a dollar an episode you get a commercial-free version of every single show plus a little parenting story at the end of every single episode, monthly buh buh buh buh bonus episodes, and so much more. How much more? So much more. And you can check it out over at patreon.com/dearolddads. Lydia, hit them!

0:04:43 Lydia: There you go.

0:05:13 Lydia: Rip into it!

0:05:15 Eli: Fantastic, ugh!

0:05:16 Lydia: I don't know what that voice was, but we're going with

0:05:17 Thomas: Rip, rip, rip, rip, yeah, it's hard when you got to make a quick decision like that.

0:05:20 Lydia: Yeah.

0:05:18 Eli: That was great, but it was from your heart. Nah, it was from your heart, and that was what mattered.

0:05:22 Lydia: Thank you.

0:05:30 Eli: Then the second thing I just wanted to say is like, A few of you wrote some of the most beautiful, kind messages of encouragement that we got to pass along to Tom in a moment of, like, real fear and darkness. And I want you to know, and I'm sure Tom will say this when he's back, but maybe he won't. Who fucking knows?

0:05:36 Thomas: Yeah,

0:05:41 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:05:52 Eli: He's such an inconsiderate piece of shit. That's what I always say about him, now that he's not dying.

0:05:51 Thomas: Because he's of shit Yeah, and a little when he was dying.

0:05:58 Lydia: Hahahahaha

0:06:01 Eli: And a lot when he was dying, which was really, was a big swing, and I think not enough people call me brave. I want you to know how much that meant to him, again, I'm sure he will speak to it, but like, feeling that there is a community there, and look, I know that there is nothing more boring to someone sitting around in their car than hearing an incredibly lucky person and talk about how hard being on the receiving end of a parasocial relationship is for them. My meat is too fall off the bone and my steak is too juicy, or whatever the fucking expression is. But it can be a bad time, and it was such a wonderful thing to see so many people come together for Tom.

0:06:43 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:06:43 Eli: So if you were one of those people who left those comments or sent those messages or sent those emails, they were read and they mattered to someone going through an incredibly scary time, and I want you to know that, like, it's very easy for the stuff you do online to feel meaningless, because so much of it is just, like, received by Robotron and then cloned by a t-shirt company, and then Grok AI makes child porn out of it, but, like, that... that thing you did... I mean, Grok AI did make child porn out of all of your emails, and that's...

0:07:11 Thomas: Of time, yeah.

0:07:12 Eli: That was... that was on me. It's because I... I was really... I was trying to get it to work with Slack, and it did not go well.

0:07:06 Lydia: God, so true. Hahahaha Hahaha

0:07:16 Thomas: If you make child porn out of Tom, it's fine, because he's of age, right,

0:07:19 Eli: Because he's an adult. You've got to swell up the head, It's though. Tough. It's tricky. Imagine is not up for it. The point is, you did a really wonderful thing, and as someone who was supporting him during that time, it was really wonderful to be able to turn those over. Alright, so let's get back to doing what we do best, commenting on other people's sex lives.

0:07:41 Eli: Now, I want to tip my hat, I want to tip my hat to the one,

0:07:40 Thomas: Yeah We've been sitting on this one so long it's it sucks, you know what we don't talk about how much Tom wronged us enough This was one of the worst things Tom did to us. It's so fucking inconsiderate, dude We had this amazing follow-up ready and then it was like I can't wait to do this amazing follow-up and, uh, then Tom had to go and selfishly get in the hospital. He just got in. He was like, I want to be selfish.

0:07:51 Eli: Yes! Yes. Exactly.

0:07:55 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:08:08 Thomas: Check me in.

0:08:07 Lydia: Typical Tom.

0:08:09 Eli: Yeah, and you know how someone will be talking about something serious, but you're ready to leave, and so you try to wrap the conversation too early and you could feel it in the air? That's what it was like with this email. Like, Tom would be like, Fellas, they moved me to the emergency ward. It's, it's spread to my eyeballs. And I'd be like, cool, yeah. So do you think Monday you'd be ready to record?

0:08:09 Thomas: Gosh.

0:08:18 Lydia: Mmm.

0:08:31 Eli: Cause I've got this one, I'm just ready to go on it, buddy. But now he's fine and Lydia's here so we get to talk about it.

0:08:31 Lydia: I gotta it, I gotta do

0:08:39 Eli: So, obviously we need to refresh people on this.

0:08:38 Thomas: I think we need to refresh people on the original though. Yeah, it's been long enough. It's been several times

0:08:41 Lydia: Yes. Yes.

0:08:44 Eli: A reminder, we had a listener who wrote in because they're a bit more adventurous than their spouse. Actually, do you want me to read the original email?

0:08:51 Lydia: Yeah.

0:08:51 Thomas: Yeah, I think it's worth reading the original. I think this is going to be possibly contentious in a contentious and it's yeah, we need the full

0:08:52 Lydia: Yeah. It's been a while.

0:08:52 Eli: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we need the full record. We need it on the record. All right. Hi dads! My wife and I have been married for almost 15 years. We have had a generally great relationship. We communicate well, love each other, show affection, and enjoy each other's company. The only persistent issue in our relationship has been sex. To be clear, my wife and I both love sex, we both enjoy sex, but we enjoy different things. I am much more adventurous and enjoy a variety and exploration. She enjoys comfortable and routine sex. Her enjoyment is necessary for mine, and if she were to just do something because I like it, I wouldn't be into it. In fact, that is what happened. We were having sex I asked if she wanted to try something.

0:09:38 Thomas: Something.

0:09:39 Eli: She said no, but she would if I wanted to, and it finally clicked for me that she's just not into the things I am. We've talked about this extensively in our relationship, and I always kind of imagined that she could learn to like trying new things. Listen, I know, I hear it too. I never want her to feel shame or guilt or do something she's not comfortable with. At the same time, I'm kind of bored with our sex now. Since that day, when we have sex, I haven't been able to have an orgasm. The sex feels good. I'm still attracted to her, but I feel like I had a load-bearing fantasy. Great pun for the follow-up, by the way Great pun for the follow-up listener. Yes.

0:10:12 Lydia: Nice. Nice.

0:10:10 Thomas: Oh, it was there. The signs were there. National treasure. Was on the back of the Constitution or Declaration of Independence.

0:10:19 Lydia: Yeah,

0:10:18 Eli: A That cum shot was on the back of the Constitution. Feel like I had a load-bearing fantasy that she would one day be into my stuff and realized that she isn't. Won't be. And it would be unrealistic and unfair to expect for her to be into something for me. I'm worried that I won't find a way to come back and find pleasure in our sex again. I feel a little resentful that her sexual desires are totally met, and mine are not at all, but I know that's not fair or productive. I know Tom won't say anything because he's a monk, and Eli, yes, monogamy is torture, and I should read The Ethical Slut. We know. With that aside, I'm a loss for what to do. Rip into it, a listener.

0:10:20 Lydia: Yeah.

0:10:54 Thomas: All right.

0:10:55 Eli: Now, a quick reminder of the episode, and again, credit, there's this thing

0:10:58 Thomas: In the episode, I called the entire thing, just called my shot.

0:11:01 Eli: A Hundred percent this is exactly what I was about to say because one of the privileges of podcasting with Thomas is like, Thomas's insight is psychic levels at certain points.

0:11:04 Thomas: Oh, thank you, I should have let Yeah, but my communication has turned to zero. What's a D&D character like? You can't understand what I'm saying half the time, but I promise you it's there.

0:11:14 Lydia: Yeah.

0:11:20 Eli: Yeah, Thomas doesn't speak common.

0:11:25 Thomas: I do the same thing where I'm listening back, I'm like, oh, I know what I was thinking there and I can't understand what I said.

0:11:30 Lydia: But those are not the words that I should have used.

0:11:32 Thomas: Yeah. Like, geez, something happened to me. I don't know what we'll find out. I didn't want to take focus away from Tom, but I might check into the hospital next.

0:11:38 Eli: No you can't have a turn. It's my turn next. It's my turn. Noah got to have a heart attack and then...

0:11:41 Thomas: Yeah, that's true. It is your team, whoever a shotgun on the hospital, whoever.

0:11:46 Eli: No, and then Tom took two turns in a row. Yeah, and it's in my turn. It's mine.

0:11:48 Lydia: Yeah, that's true.

0:11:49 Thomas: Yeah. Okay. Let's go back to where I totally called it. I liked that when you were talking about that.

0:11:54 Eli: Yeah, you called so like the levels of insight that sometimes happen from Thomas are just truly astounding to me because on a regular, not irregular basis, you'll be like, because I'll hear it on air, you'll be like, I don't know, it seems like the test is just unplugged, and I'd be like, what the fuck is he thinking? And then we'll get a follow-up email being like up turned out the toaster was unplugged, and I'm just like where where and how?

0:12:15 Lydia: I'm not sure what I'm doing here. Hahaha.

0:12:19 Eli: Did- and I look, I know you at home listening are just like, "He's just smarter than you." But I need you to know that that's magic to me when you're not smart and a smart person can see things you can't. It's insane. I'll tell you the example of this for me right now, is I'm playing this puzzle game, Between the Stars, Star Drop, something, something- it's by the guy who made The Witness, and it's a puzzle game. It's great. Great game, but I'm an idiot, and so on a regular basis I'm just like, well this one's broken. They fucked up.

0:12:25 Lydia: Hahaha.

0:12:41 Lydia: Hmm.

0:12:46 Eli: They made a whole game.

0:12:46 Thomas: They messed up a puzzle, yeah.

0:12:47 Eli: They made a game, and this one's not possible, and I bring it over to my wife, like the child that I am, and she goes, oh, you gotta do this, this, and this, and I go, fuck! Because it's just, she just has an eye that I don't have.

0:12:57 Thomas: How did she patch the code like that in real time?

0:12:59 Eli: Yeah, exactly. She must have hacked into the mainframe. Uh, so I thought it was like something extreme, I was like, this is anal, right? Or something like to...

0:13:09 Thomas: And, and I didn't at the time, like I wanted to be careful too, because I've been doing this long enough where you just never know people's stories, but I was like, know, this could either be, he's a total asshole or she's a total asshole. And got hung up on the fact that she said, well, she could do it if he wanted to, but she wasn't into it. And I was like, that's not anal. That's not an answer you get for that. Yeah, if you want.

0:13:29 Eli: Hm.

0:13:32 Lydia: I could open my sphincter.

0:13:34 Thomas: Yeah.

0:13:34 Eli: Hahahaha!

0:13:35 Thomas: That's a thing where you're like either yes or firm no. Like there's that.

0:13:34 Lydia: Yeah, can't really fake that in the body, no.

0:13:41 Thomas: Yeah. And then it got me like the tone of the rest of it. It really fit with like, I feel for this guy now. And I really think, based on this update that we're gonna say, I feel like, I feel like I get where this guy's coming from, I'll just

0:13:41 Eli: Hahaha.

0:13:54 Eli: Yeah, yeah, I think there's two really interesting things to be talked about here, so let's dive into the follow-up. Hi dads! Listen to the episode today, thanks for all the advice. I don't expect you to respond or air this bit, but since you seem genuinely split, yeah.

0:14:01 Lydia: Hm. Well, we're going to.

0:14:10 Thomas: By the way, we asked him for permission. Just so everybody knows.

0:14:11 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:14:11 Eli: We did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did follow up because we never know with our listeners.

0:14:15 Lydia: Important clarification. Haha.

0:14:17 Thomas: Yeah, it's like, I even, Eli was like, we have the rule, if you email, we read it. I was like, yeah, but a follow-up on something this sensitive, I was like, let's ask again, just to make sure, yeah.

0:14:23 Lydia: Yeah.

0:14:24 Eli: And we did, and we got a big yes, so there you go.

0:14:27 Thomas: Enthusiastic consent.

0:14:28 Eli: Enthusiastic consent, exactly. My wife and I did speak about this afterwards and decided to start incorporating small things into our sex. Couple-sensitive porn, no pussy-slapping, hair-pulling, gagging stuff, I get it, to help her explore what she might be into. The specific act was, in fact, a facial, not anal, because beyond consent I don't want spur-of-the-moment butt sex. I'm not into being covered in poop.

0:14:35 Lydia: Hm. Hmm.

0:14:46 Thomas: Here we go, drum roll.

0:14:55 Lydia: Hahaha.

0:14:58 Eli: Judgey. As for my wife, she has had a lot of sexual partners. I added that emphasis to really ruin

0:15:03 Lydia: Oh, yeah,

0:15:05 Thomas: Yeah, wow, I think I missed that part.

0:15:06 Lydia: I was like, what?

0:15:06 Eli: Her week. But not a lot of sexual variety. She's tried things with me and with others, decided she doesn't like them and doesn't want to explore them further. Other things I'm into she hasn't tried and doesn't really want to. She doesn't really have any kinks or desires that she has or will express to me. She insists she simply doesn't have them at all, so if they're being hidden, it's pretty deep. There are some issues and insecurities in our relationship, and in ourselves personally, that we're both exploring. In therapy and with each other, and have been for years. Individual therapy, not couples. That's also something we're planning on starting soon as we find the right therapist.

0:15:07 Thomas: Heh, heh heh heh heh.

0:15:42 Lydia: Aww.

0:15:43 Eli: For my wife, she has lots of concerns and anxieties around control and agency, and I think a lot of that pleads into our sex. To Thomas's point, we are having what I consider the most vanilla sex imaginable. Missionary or doggy, no lingerie, no dirty talk. She likes oral sex, but she never wants to receive it when I offer, enthusiastically, but likes giving it, though she's uncomfortable with anything related to ejaculation at all. To Tom's point, that last issue is a problem for me. After 15 years, I'm kind just of tired of every blowjob ending with a handjob onto her shoulder.

0:16:13 Eli: She's simply not into anything else. Doesn't like it physically or sexually and doesn't want to do it, and has really just ruined my experience of oral sex. Something previously we both really enjoyed. To Tom's other point, for a long time I fantasized that this time would be different and she would do something new, but that is simply not who she is. I love her and relish her in my life, this and isn't worth risking or losing our relationship for, but it does make me sad and diminish my enjoyment of sex. I'm not sure how we proceed. We both want to make things better, and neither one of us wants the other to suffer for each selfishly. I want Tom to be right, there are some table stakes things that we should just do for our partner in reality, table stakes,

0:16:06 Lydia: Hmm hmm

0:16:52 Thomas: Wait, did Tom say that? I thought I said

0:16:54 Lydia: Mm-hmm,

0:16:54 Eli: Maybe he's calling you Tom, yeah,

0:16:55 Thomas: Oh, yeah, that's always the thing. Somebody should have gotten a different name. Hey, while Tom's dead, I'm renaming Tom.

0:17:00 Eli: Yeah, Tom.

0:17:01 Thomas: He's actually Steven

0:16:57 Lydia: Yep, yeah,

0:17:01 Eli: Tom. Come back. I mean, he did come back as Lydia, yeah.

0:17:04 Lydia: There you go.

0:17:05 Eli: Yeah, but in reality, table stakes for me is not table stakes for my wife. Like I said, no expectation that you will respond or air this. Simply providing fodder for you to chat with Tom while he's high as a kite yelling, "Rip into it," at the neurosurgeon. Hope it gets well soon. We love you, Tom. Listener. What if that was all Thomas had to offer he nailed it next episode

0:17:24 Lydia: Ha ha ha. Ha. Ha, ha. Ha.

0:17:04 Thomas: Yeah Yeah Yep, yep, I, I, oh man, this one, this one hurts a little bit, I think, for me. I mean, we all obviously have our things we identify with more, and get I both points of view here on the wife, look, when it comes to sexual things, the answer of, in the moment when someone's like gonna come, the answer of like, nah, not really, but I guess if you want to, like what? Unless it's something you, like again, if the answer was, oh, hell no, I hate that, yeah, okay, you hate that, don't do it, million percent.

0:17:34 Lydia: Hmm.

0:17:59 Eli: 100%

0:18:01 Lydia: Do you think he's asking her about finishing, like, in the moment, like, and says like can I finish on your face, or is it just like, I would like to try this, and she's like, I'm not really into it, but I'll do it if you want to? Because I think that's different. Like, if having the conversation before you're getting hot and heavy, or if it's kind of happening at the end, you know, like, then it can be handled more sensitively, but

0:18:06 Thomas: Wasn't that in the email?

0:18:20 Thomas: No, I thought, Oh, am I misremembering? Yeah. In the email it was like, he's going to come.

0:18:23 Lydia: Mid-mid sex okay,

0:18:25 Eli: It's mid-sex. And I asked if she wanted to try something. She said no, but she would if I wanted to.

0:18:31 Thomas: Okay. So not literally going to burst, which also wasn't great. I think like mid sex, not a terrible time. Like if you're like just getting going, you know?

0:18:33 Lydia: Yeah, Yeah, it could be kind of like dirty talk sort of thing, like, you know.

0:18:40 Eli: Yeah, yeah.

0:18:40 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, think there are, it's, it's frustrating because it's like obviously one inch to another side and it's, and it's not good. Then you're talking about, Oh, something someone's not into. And they're, they're consenting when they shouldn't. And obviously I'm 0% about that. So less anyone misunderstand, But if it's genuinely something where you're like, not super into that, but it's really important to my partner. I'll just say this. I cannot identify for the life of me with that feeling at all, that if there was something your partner was like, I want this, and you were like, it's C plus for me. Like it's, ah, you know, I'm not really into it, but I could just do it for your part. Am I like, it's so, it's so, obviously the gendered thing really makes this hard to not it sound like an asshole, but in, forget sex, anything in this category, maybe it's cause this is my whole life. That could be it. My whole life is things I don't want to do ever.

0:18:50 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:19:32 Eli: Taking loads

0:19:33 Thomas: All I want, I take

0:19:33 Eli: On faces

0:19:35 Lydia: You. I'm gonna take a picture of you.

0:19:35 Thomas: Load after load of Lydia's jizz, just marble, ribbon, ribbons of it all over my face.

0:19:39 Lydia: Yeah, it's a very important part of our relationship. I

0:19:44 Thomas: No, it's just ribbons of jizz. It's just,

0:19:45 Lydia: Didn't know I did

0:19:45 Eli: You needed to search for ribbons. It was important to you to clarify the ribbony nature.

0:19:48 Lydia: Ribbons.

0:19:48 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, it was. I thought you would appreciate that

0:19:54 Eli: I do know I appreciate it so much. I needed, I froze with

0:19:54 Thomas: Joke. I thought that was funny. Damn. Oh man, my old life is things that I don't want to do. It just is. Like, I just don't want to do anything. I want yes right away, bad start already, hate this day, don't want to go anywhere, don't want to do anything. And so my whole life Yeah, my whole life is me realizing, like, oh wait, but that sucks and you suck. You suck, you piece of shit.

0:20:05 Lydia: Up in the morning, yeah. We have a very fun life.

0:20:22 Thomas: And so then I go

0:20:22 Eli: Himself he's talking to himself right now, not Lydia.

0:20:25 Thomas: And then I go yes, you should you know come out of your room for Christmas.

0:20:29 Eli: Another ribbon on your face

0:20:31 Thomas: Yeah I was trying to think of something really obviously. Yeah, you should go to your kids graduation, you know, you should No, that's more my dad That stuff when it comes to the kids. I do pretty much want to do it But you know pretty much just going someplace and talking to people is my nightmare. I just hate it. I don't like doing it Yeah, Lydia's favorite things and so there's times and it's it is really tough because I actually also understand this impulse a in relationship, the things that you suck up and do without making any noise, can't help but be taken for granted.

0:20:31 Eli: Yeah

0:20:37 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:20:50 Lydia: All of my favorite things, yeah.

0:21:07 Lydia: Mm.

0:21:08 Thomas: It's just impossible to not take those things for granted. I'm sure I do that every day with Lydia, and I know she does that with me. Like the things where I'm in my head like, this is so hard, I gotta just fucking stop being an asshole, go against every impulse I have, do the decent thing, and also not complain about it. And believe it or not, hun, I'm not, I complain a lot. There's a lot I'm not complaining about.

0:21:13 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I know I believe that because you know why, because you used to complain a lot more out loud, and you've really dialed it back.

0:21:37 Thomas: I've gotten better. Yeah, don't, and I don't even say that like since I started coming on your face more. Yeah, yeah. They became punitive at a certain point. It feels like, yeah, there's some people are gonna be way too into this.

0:21:40 Eli: I started hitting you

0:21:44 Lydia: Coming on your face. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a way to shut you up Ha, ha, ha, ha,

0:21:56 Thomas: To things, I'll just say again, completely detached from the topic, in general, it's important to do things for your partner if it's important to them, and to not be shitty about it, and I say that about myself, because I definitely fall short of that sometimes, where it's like, ah, I don't wanna go do this thing, you know, important, like, when it's stuff that's important to Lydia, I do my absolute fucking damnedest to do it and do it fun. Like try to have fun, and then, you know, I usually end up having fun because it is actually fun to be out with people.

0:22:19 Eli: Yeah.

0:22:25 Thomas: You know, I just never want to do it.

0:22:25 Lydia: In the world, yeah.

0:22:27 Thomas: Yeah. To take a load.

0:22:28 Eli: Take a load on your face.

0:22:30 Thomas: And so I think, and especially when it comes to something like this where I feel like this isn't news to the wife. Like this has clearly been a conversation. And if it's something like coming on your face. Yeah, man, don't I mean, some people are pretty into that, but like, look, you could also be like, "Hey, give me a hand job." "Well, my arm will get tired, I don't really want to do that." But I guess if you want it like, What, that would be insane, like, if anyone did that, like, if anyone had that answer to, like, "Hey, should you ever give your partner a hand job or something?" They're like, "Well, but sometimes my arm gets tired." They're like, "Yeah, that's part of it." I don't understand, like, yeah.

0:22:29 Lydia: Heh heh Mm. Mm.

0:23:07 Eli: Yeah, raise, so I think there's a reason why people get stuck on this, right, which is that I think for a long time, do a sex thing that you might not necessarily be into was code for rape your wife, right?

0:23:17 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, 100 percent.

0:23:18 Lydia: Yeah.

0:23:19 Eli: And we're acknowledging that, right? We understand that none of us think that anyone should do anything against their consent, nobody should do anything they don't want to do, um, but we now live in modern relationships with couples who are negotiating a more subtle dynamic, and while it is amazing societally for us to acknowledge that history and the problematic nature of it. It doesn't help us as cultures to treat all negotiations like it is marital rape, right? Because then you're not actually having a good conversation about negotiating things for yourselves.

0:23:32 Lydia: Hmm.

0:23:49 Thomas: Especially with our audience, like we're already so obviously geared toward, not the con the

0:23:51 Eli: Right. Yeah, if you're raping your wife, you are listening to the wrong, I don't know what you're listening to this show for.

0:23:57 Thomas: They're not into this show. They listened to four seconds of our show and were like F slurs and then turned it off, you know?

0:24:05 Lydia: Yeah.

0:24:04 Eli: You know what it is? They liked the opening quotes, and they were like, you know what?

0:24:06 Lydia: Huh. Hahaha.

0:24:09 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:24:10 Eli: That's fucking great.

0:24:11 Lydia: Hahaha.

0:24:11 Eli: I love those TV shows.

0:24:12 Thomas: I love yelling at my

0:24:13 Eli: And then they hated everything else.

0:24:13 Thomas: Kids. Yeah. Yep.

0:24:15 Eli: So I think that is important to acknowledge. I understand people's sensitivity to it, but you need to understand that we are serving everybody when we acknowledge that mutualistic people can compromise. The other thing is, because I think there is often a very sacred holding space in a lot of people's mind for, well, I should be able to say I'm not into things, Right? Which you can, absolutely.

0:24:33 Lydia: Mmm.

0:24:34 Thomas: Yeah, absolutely.

0:24:35 Eli: But let me put you in a mind space that I think will help you empathize better, podcast listener, which is I want you to imagine that this person who we assume is male, a partner who we assume is female, comes in and she's really feeling herself and she's wearing like sexy lingerie and she's like, so do you wanna have sex tonight? And he goes, eh, I don't really feel like it, but I will if you want to.

0:24:56 Thomas: Want to yeah then you've killed your fucking buzz like it that also is such a sensitive thing, you know, like putting yourself out there in a way is really sensitive. And as a partner, I feel like you have a more of a duty, know, I think that's a good example.

0:24:57 Eli: Right? Right. What we recognize in that moment is that it's about rejection, exactly like Thomas just said, revealing a very sensitive, very intimate part of themselves and then being rejected for it, and that there are kinder and gentler ways to deal with that.

0:25:13 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:25:24 Thomas: That's the other thing I exactly there's, here's another part of it. You can also yes, and, or or, pivot in a more enthusiastic way. Like, yeah, once again, just to say for the umpteenth time, We're talking about a good relationship where know, both partners in general are trying to do right by their partner. Nobody's coercing anybody. Are, if somebody suggests something, and this happens all the time in sex, people's sex fantasies are misaligned, you know? And there's a way that you can, assuming it's not something like, you know, really disgusting or whatever, if we're in the realm of like your kind of run of the mill, like sexual fantasies that people, I need a dirty talk, whatever it might be. Like there's a way to say no, I'm not into that. That's not like, uh, no, a pro you know, like there's a way to pivot especially in the moment that will make your partner not feel shitty

0:25:32 Eli: Pivot exactly, yeah.

0:26:10 Eli: Two

0:26:10 Thomas: And Yeah, and not feel like oh, I can't actually trust my own partner with the most intimate things You know like that So it's even if you want to still Not do the thing which is fine If you don't want to do something, you could pivot in a way. I think a good partner would have a backup plan, have a, have a suggestion, have a something pivot in a sexy way to something, you know?

0:26:10 Eli: Stars. Ha ha ha ha ha!

0:26:33 Lydia: Thank you. Where the fact that they're both in therapy and stuff is going to be super helpful because I will say like as a woman, finding like ways to pivot and express some of that stuff, like creatively, like in the moment can be kind of challenging. You know, you,

0:26:36 Thomas: Yeah.

0:26:46 Thomas: Why is that as a woman? I'm just curious.

0:26:47 Lydia: Well, because like throughout teenage years and young adulthood and stuff, it's a yes or no, right? And the man like always just kind of dictates what happens and your choices, at least the way that I grew up, felt like the choices were yes or no. You consent or you don't consent, it wasn't like offering an alternative or coming up with a pivot or something like that, so I don't want to speak for her, but I think that that is a pretty common experience for women.

0:27:12 Thomas: Okay.

0:27:12 Lydia: Personally, I don't know, that's kind of like where my head is at, is that there might be a block there that the only options aren't yes or no, it can be instead, how about this, and offering that as an alternative, and then getting in touch with like how to connect with what those alternatives could even be, and opening up like that part of your mind, too. I don't think that's something that a lot of a lot of women really have a lot of experience in, you know, growing up, so.

0:27:36 Eli: Yeah.

0:27:36 Lydia: I want to be sensitive to that

0:27:45 Eli: I also think it's why dirty talk can often be harder for women than for men. Like I've had several partners. I'm a dirty talker because I can't shut the fuck up. And I've several partners where I've been like, you ah, enjoying this game of Parcheesi, my lady? And they have been like, hey, I don't really want to talk about the Parcheesi. I just want to play. And that doesn't mean that they're not enjoying the Parcheesi, hopefully, right? But it's just a thing because what they have expressed to me in that moment is, hey, I am then taken out of it and trying to do, you know what it's kind of like? Let me say something brave.

0:27:49 Thomas: Mm hmm.

0:27:49 Lydia: Uh-huh Ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha

0:28:23 Thomas: Okay, here we

0:28:23 Eli: Thomas, you are going to get in trouble this episode, but I'm going to get in trouble now. So don't worry, here's me jumping on that grenade. So when you talk for a living, and maybe you like sometimes even argue with people for a living, and then you take those skills into a relationship, sometimes you gotta put on the kid gloves, if you know what I'm saying, you know what I'm saying? Like you can't full on debate your wife and show her all the gotchas that you have access to, if you know what I'm saying, right?

0:28:24 Thomas: Go. Yep. Mm-hmm.

0:28:49 Eli: Similarly, like, I am a very verbose person, and so always, talking about Parcheesi, has always come very naturally to me. But I think for a lot of my partners who are not necessarily verbose, asking them like, creative writing exercise, go! Also, one that is tied, it's not just a creative writing exercise, it's one that's tied to both our sexuality, can't surprise me, can't make me think about anything I don't want to think about, also can't be a lie because then you have to live it for the rest of

0:28:40 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Heh Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, hold

0:29:02 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Right.

0:29:19 Eli: Your life.

0:29:19 Thomas: On, hold on, let me, let me say one thing. If you are on the other, if you're on the Eli end of this, you also had better be in a mode of extreme openness to whatever their attempt is, you know, you like, better be yes-anding or you better be, yeah, you can't be like, the minute they say something that's not quite right, you're like, that was fucking dumb, I'm done, you can't do that.

0:29:33 Eli: You can't roast you can't roast Can I say? I do.

0:29:42 Thomas: Yeah, you've

0:29:42 Eli: I do in my head. Never out loud.

0:29:44 Thomas: Got to also

0:29:43 Lydia: And your head is fine, and your head is fine.

0:29:45 Thomas: You've

0:29:46 Eli: Never out loud.

0:29:46 Thomas: Also got to be in a in a in a mood to come halfway

0:29:50 Eli: Yeah. No, I've actually, I will tell you many, many years ago, it did ruin a session once. I was with partner, and he said something so incredibly stupid that I was like, hey, this has to stop forever, actually.

0:30:02 Thomas: Yeah, is he like, both sides are the same, you know, like, Democrats and

0:30:06 Lydia: Yeah, hahaha,

0:30:07 Eli: Truly, he could have been like, we needed a political insider and like, outsider, and like, I don't love what he's done since 2016. I would have been better

0:30:12 Lydia: Haha.

0:30:10 Thomas: Let's make it Let's run the country like a business.

0:30:18 Eli: Then what he said it I think about it it's like it boils me from the inside

0:30:22 Thomas: Don't want to know I actually

0:30:23 Lydia: I want to know

0:30:24 Eli: No

0:30:24 Thomas: Don't I don't want to know That's, I'm already embarrassed on someone's

0:30:26 Lydia: Oh,

0:30:24 Eli: You don't want to know it boils me from the inside several times a month.

0:30:30 Lydia: Man,

0:30:32 Thomas: You haven't rewritten that memory yet because I would have rewritten that memory

0:30:34 Lydia: Want to boil from the inside several times a month. Tell me.

0:30:37 Eli: This happens to Anna where she'll think about like bad moments from her life where she like said the wrong thing or did the wrong thing, right? And then she feels like guilty or sad about it. I don't have those moments because I'm always right and everything I've done is great, but I do have those moments about other people and this is one of them where I'll be like, why? Why would you say that? Why?

0:30:48 Thomas: Sociop — yeah, you're a sociopath, it's — yeah.

0:30:52 Lydia: About other people saying the wrong thing Yeah.

0:31:00 Thomas: Uh.

0:31:00 Eli: So I think about that on a pretty regular basis. So yeah, you got to be careful. It is on-demand creative writing, especially, can I say, to Lydia's point, where do you want this load if you don't want it on your face? That's a tough redirect, right?

0:31:03 Lydia: Man.

0:31:15 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:31:15 Eli: Like I want to give credit where credit is due, right? Because you don't want it somewhere hotter than your face.

0:31:20 Lydia: What? Mean hotter?

0:31:22 Eli: That's the thing, right? If the guy's like, I want to cum on your face, it's not like he's working his way up to a different spot from face.

0:31:29 Lydia: I see, I see, that that's like his, his peak is right.

0:31:32 Eli: That's his peak. That's what he's excited for. He saw it in the porn, he wants to do it because it's in the porn.

0:31:33 Lydia: Right. Yeah.

0:31:35 Thomas: Like in that example, if she doesn't want to do it, can you be like, come on the tits?

0:31:38 Eli: Let's workshop this, yes!

0:31:40 Thomas: Yeah. Just point. Aim it here, buddy.

0:31:43 Eli: We've already heard that shoulder is fine.

0:31:44 Lydia: Shoulder. She'll take it on

0:31:45 Thomas: Yeah, but okay, so that was the next thing I was gonna say is, it's possible that I'm back on her side if what she has expressed is that she has some deathly aversion to cum. Like she just hates cum so much, yeah, yeah, yeah, what is he eating? What does he eat?

0:31:45 Lydia: The shoulder.

0:31:48 Eli: Shoulder's terrible.

0:31:56 Lydia: I was gonna say, I was gonna say, like, maybe there's something deeper there about, like, what does she not like specifically about cum? And maybe it's, like, his particular cum. Like, maybe there's, like, a viscosity thing that, like, really is challenging for her, Or, yeah, or there's

0:32:10 Thomas: Yeah, what's his diet?

0:32:10 Lydia: A flavor that's happening.

0:32:11 Eli: No, I honestly, I was about to say that, because Comrade, if you're asking for loads on faces and you're not pineapple maxing, that's right, we're show

0:32:18 Lydia: And you're just eating red meat? If you're just eating red meat, we're going to have a problem.

0:32:21 Thomas: Pineapple maxing.

0:32:20 Eli: Exactly. If you're not pineapple maxing, you're a fucking jerk. I

0:32:25 Lydia: Yeah.

0:32:22 Thomas: Yeah, if you're on the If you're on the what's-his-name diet damn it if you're on the Jordan Peterson diet you can't be making these demands.

0:32:28 Lydia: Jordan Peterson.

0:32:29 Eli: Yeah here's some dying yeah Benzos make your cum taste terrible

0:32:33 Thomas: Yeah

0:32:33 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, I do think that is worth exploring, though, because it seems like she might have a little bit of an aversion to calm, well, because he said that she also, anything involving ejaculation, think it makes that she probably also doesn't take it in the mouth, right?

0:32:38 Thomas: That's could be Yeah, well definitely I think that's

0:32:49 Lydia: Even to spit out, right? So there's something there that I think needs to be explored.

0:32:49 Thomas: What he's saying yeah, yeah Something there. Yep, For sure, I think that, and once again, just like last time, a lot depends on, you know, it could go either way because of things. So if it's something where she's expressed like a real aversion and doesn't want it, and that's therefore now the thing you do want, that's problematic. But I don't really get that sense from this emailer. I could be wrong.

0:33:08 Eli: Yeah! Yeah.

0:33:14 Lydia: Hmm.

0:33:14 Thomas: I think that, so the thing I really did seize upon the first time was, I can if you want to. Because again, that tells me, again, in a long established relationship, We're not talking about like some coercive thing with a person in power over another person. And if, you know, in a long established relationship, the not into it, but can if you want to, that means it's not something like traumatically that you hate. I mean, I can't imagine that, you know? And so that's why I seized on that the first time. If it is something where she truly is of the attitude that she could do it, but just would prefer not to, I really think in a situation like that, don't, I I think a good partner doesn't make their partner feel bad for that, you know?

0:33:38 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

0:33:54 Eli: Yeah.

0:33:55 Thomas: But if it is something that she does have some real aversion to and he's been trying to push it and you know, that could be a totally different story.

0:34:01 Lydia: Yeah.

0:34:02 Eli: In that case, fuck off, man. Here's the thing. You shouldn't want to do, and this is something that comes up in kink quite a bit, this is like the big revelation you have early on in kink, is that you actually shouldn't want to do anything your partner doesn't want to do. That is not the goal of a lot of kink.

0:34:03 Thomas: Yeah, totally.

0:34:17 Lydia: Hmm.

0:34:18 Eli: A lot of people get into kink and they're like, "I want to give somebody a good old-fashioned spankin'," and there are people out there who would like to receive a good old-fashioned spankin'. And then there are people who are like, "No, that hurts, please don't do that to me." You should never want to do that to someone. So if your partner, like, has a real revulsion around cum or trauma or whatever the case might be, you shouldn't want that. You should just stop wanting that thing. I'm sorry, you want it? Watch porn about it, fucking teaching AI to tell you how much it wants to do it, whatever you fucking gotta do, the centaur will say whatever you want it to say. That's- you should not want a thing that genuinely will bother your partner.

0:34:27 Lydia: Right.

0:34:57 Thomas: Yeah, it's interesting. I guess I would word that a little differently. Cause I, I think people's, I don't know. I think people's fantasies are maybe a little more ingrained. I, you know, I would say, yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.

0:35:07 Lydia: Yeah yeah

0:35:05 Eli: You can- look, you can want it for yourself. You shouldn't want to do it to your partner. Yeah, no. Be as into coming on people's faces as you want to be on, but like, I don't want anything that's gonna make my wife sad.

0:35:09 Lydia: Yeah exactly

0:35:09 Thomas: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, that's that's what I thought. And like if you're the kind of person who's specifically wanting things that are like making your partner on like if that's your kink, that's something you really should not do.

0:35:25 Eli: It's not a kink. You're not a kink. You just go to therapy and then you stop doing it.

0:35:27 Thomas: Yeah, that's yeah.

0:35:28 Lydia: No, yeah, you lock yourself away with

0:35:29 Eli: If you can be theropized out of your kink, it wasn't a kink.

0:35:33 Thomas: Hahahaha

0:35:29 Lydia: Therapy, and yeah. Yeah, I think that's like one way where if you're willing to engage too with like opening up the relationship in some sort of way, like that's kind of, you know, an easy out because then you can still engage with the thing that like you're into that your partner might not be into but with somebody who is into it and doesn't mean that like you have to like have a full out relationship with another person. It could be that like you hire a sex worker or something to, know, explore that part of kink that you're into and stuff, I and don't know.

0:36:01 Thomas: Lydia always pushing poly on people.

0:36:04 Lydia: Yeah. But it's not just that. I'd like... But I think, like, those are other avenues, but, you know, obviously there's not a lot of people that are open to that.

0:36:05 Eli: Polly and sex work

0:36:04 Thomas: Gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's another thing that I struggle with is like, I don't think you can simultaneously.

0:36:17 Eli: Can't afford these sex workers so fucking expensive

0:36:18 Thomas: Yeah, no, I, I struggle with the, the mono people, the, the monogos and not to turn this into that, But like, I do struggle when it's like, I when everybody's get it happy and you're both into it, of course, obviously. Eli disagrees, but whatever. But when it's like, oh no, I don't want to do a whole bunch of stuff that my partner wants, but I would never, ever allow them to do anything with anyone else, then to me, that feels like, oh, you just want them to be unhappy then. Like, you're happy as long as they're unhappy.

0:36:29 Lydia: Mm-hmm. A mismatch. Much. Mm-hmm.

0:36:45 Eli: Sort of like a sexual version of if you ran a farm, you know, like cotton to work on that farm, but you didn't want to pay them.

0:36:53 Lydia: Oh my gosh.

0:36:59 Eli: What would we call that practice? Do you guys have wor- I'll probably think of it some other time.

0:36:58 Thomas: I'm glad I'm out of trouble on this one. What's that meme with Jesus with somebody hitting that with the arrows in their back is it Jesus who is it the flea? Yeah, that's that's Eli for me right now in this episode

0:37:08 Eli: Yeah, exactly,

0:37:11 Lydia: I think it is so much more extensive than just like, like, I didn't want to come on her face if she said like, I could, if I wanted to kind of thing, even though she's not into it, because he said ever since that moment he has been bored with the sex life and has had a problem orgasming after.

0:37:25 Thomas: Well, that's what I relate to the most, which is the feeling of if someone shows that to you in a relationship, like shows you that your desires are so unimportant that they could be like, I could do that, but I'm going to make you feel shitty about it. That would be what turns me out. Now, maybe that's just I'm projecting too much in terms of maybe he's turned off for a different reason, but that would be what I might understand is like, if you've been rejected in that way, I would take that as a pretty big rejection because of the fact that it was like an unnecessary amount of push, you know, like you didn't need to make someone feel like the bad guy in that moment, if again, I'm interpreting it right And if, or if, that? Like assuming the assumptions we've already made, you know, that this is not, you know, like a coercive, bad relationship or anything like

0:37:59 Lydia: Hmm.

0:38:13 Eli: Yeah, and look, I don't know about you, but I have had people be like, I suppose we can have sex multiple times in my life because of the way I look, and I've been like, oh no, right like, first, I get it, there's fucking guys out there who are just fucking animals who are like, yeah, I won, high score, but the times that that has happened to me, I've been like, oh my god, I, what if I conveyed that makes you think I'm a person who would be like noise in this moment, as opposed to the revulsion and Uber ordering that I'm doing while I talk to you.

0:38:19 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Why would you want to do that? Uh.

0:38:41 Lydia: Yeah.

0:38:46 Thomas: We're ordering.

0:38:49 Eli: I remember, this is way, way back in my dating days, I had a friend who I had flirting with, and we went out to a bar, and I don't drink, and I was not drinking at the time, and she was drunk, and she came back to my place, and like, the flirty vibes were high, but she was drunk and I wasn't, and so I was like, this is not really the vibe. And before I went, before, in, she went to sleep in my room, she goes, I suppose we should take care of you before I go to bed, and I was like never I Suppose Truly, do you want me to change your diapie would have been a nicer because at least I would have been like, oh, okay this is a specific form of roleplay, but like, time to wash the dishes in relationship to the most intimate and important part of me could not have been- I mean, the ick.

0:39:16 Lydia: Oh, whoa.

0:39:17 Thomas: That is that's a weird one Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:39:39 Thomas: Yeah.

0:39:40 Eli: The ick was forever established, it never recovered. It literally never recovered.

0:39:44 Lydia: Sad for her, too, though, because, like, who knows, you know, what kind of expectations she had been dealing with the entire time.

0:39:47 Eli: Yeah, exactly! I mean, that is nitgued. Yeah, but I think I screamed no so loud that her eardrums burst like Shai Halud, so I

0:39:50 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:39:56 Thomas: Yeah.

0:39:58 Lydia: Do you guys think that there are opportunities for them, like, in, like, a lower stakes situation, not in the middle of sex, and maybe not even necessarily, like, related to sex for something like those conversations to happen where there can be like more exploration and more creativity and more like openness to different things.

0:40:17 Thomas: I thought there were,

0:40:18 Eli: It seems like that's what they're doing with the porn.

0:40:19 Thomas: I thought he's described doing that a

0:40:19 Lydia: Really?

0:40:21 Eli: Yeah, they're watching porn.

0:40:21 Lydia: Oh, with the porn, that's right, that's right.

0:40:23 Eli: They're watching porn together.

0:40:24 Lydia: Okay,

0:40:21 Thomas: Lot. They've done that a lot. That's kind of part of why this is, yeah.

0:40:25 Lydia: Okay, interesting.

0:40:26 Eli: So, podcast listeners, let me give you some practical advice here, because I have also had partners who were like, I don't have any kinks. And that is because very often the only kinks they have been exposed to are hard kink, right? So they like go on a Porn Hub and they see a bunch of bright red tits all tied up with rope and they're like

0:40:41 Thomas: That makes sense they're like I'm not into like stepbrother something you know you're like that's not, they're all insane.

0:40:45 Lydia: Right.

0:40:45 Eli: Um yeah I don't I clicked all the categories and they a bunch of them were rape and three of them were incest yeah and so like a lot of the time, like, people are into a much softer version of a kink than they've seen in pornography, or this is something that they need to explore, not with you. Right?

0:40:53 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a good point.

0:40:54 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Mm.

0:41:11 Thomas: Yeah.

0:41:11 Eli: Like, again, much like making someone do an improv exercise in the middle of sex, or a creative writing exercise in the middle of sex, right? Exploiting your kink could be a very, like, personal, private thing, and I have a little solution. And this is for, this is for all the fellas and the ladies and the non-binary fowls out there. If you have a partner um, kinky and hasn't really been able to explore themselves like that, I definitely recommend getting them some porn to read. Spicy Book Talk has sort of,

0:41:25 Lydia: Hmm.

0:41:44 Thomas: Lydia can lend you Lydia can lend you some hockey books yeah she's got all hockey smut

0:41:47 Lydia: Hockey smut, I got you covered.

0:41:50 Eli: Smut, but there's a lot of smut out there. Yeah, there's a lot of smut out there, and it's really very, very, they got it for everybody. They got It for everybody. And let me tell you, it's a really Yeah, it's written badly, but it's written for its audience and it's a really great way for your partner to explore privately by themselves and then come back to you and say, "Hey, I was reading this thing in the book, what if you're a werewolf and I'm not."

0:41:52 Thomas: A to Zamboni written badly

0:42:02 Lydia: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, And simultaneously, then on the other side, if you're the partner that's not engaging in that, but the partner who is, who's exploring romantic-y or smut or whatever, then don't yuck their yum either, because I have heard many a woman that have said that they have been enjoying reading this and then their partner makes fun of them for it or looks down on it because it's, know, they used to read other types of books and stuff and they feel like really connected to this particular genre right now and they're made fun of all the time. And that's not okay either.

0:42:47 Eli: That's so fucking crazy to me, that's so fucking nuts to me.

0:42:49 Lydia: I've heard it multiple times,

0:42:51 Eli: I know, I know, I know, I know it's real, I'm not saying it's not real. But the notion that my wife would be like, hey, here's this like part of my intimacy that I've discovered and has awakened things in me.

0:43:01 Thomas: Okay, tomorrow she has Fifty Shades of Grey, and she's like, this is the best. You're you're not gonna be like

0:43:07 Eli: Yep, Oh, something that I would say at the outset because I can only speak to my new experience. There's no kink Anna could have that I wouldn't be like, fucking sure.

0:43:11 Lydia: Hahaha.

0:43:20 Lydia: Hahaha.

0:43:20 Eli: If Anna was like, I want to shit hot sauce Directly into your eyeballs.

0:43:24 Lydia: Hahaha.

0:43:20 Thomas: Yeah, That's what I said last time and you guys didn't relate to it what the fuck

0:43:26 Lydia: Hahaha.

0:43:27 Eli: No, I absolutely- if I didn't agree then it's because I was saying something funny that was the opposite opinion. Which is the only way my opinions are-

0:43:32 Thomas: That yeah No, I think you were talking, you talked about how you had the problematic, like, relationships in the past with the, like, remember that, yeah.

0:43:40 Eli: Oh yeah, no, I did have some- yeah, I did have some cash money times. Yeah, but again, I stand by those decisions, damn it. Because like there's nothing that I wouldn't just be like, yeah sure fucking why not? Right, especially in the moment I mean, well, Here's the other thing that I will say, because I feel like we've talked around this. But I do want to clarify this. If your partner asks for something that is a hard to know for you, I don't think you should say, "Not really."

0:43:43 Lydia: Right, right, right. Hmm.

0:44:07 Eli: But I will if you're into it, I think you should stop sex and have a conversation. Right, because that's about part of trusting your partner, who is inside you at the time, or you're inside them, whatever, it's 2026, get woke. But part of that trust is knowing that a person understands you well enough to know what you do and don't want. And so my like, argument would be, hey, if someone suggests something that's a hard no, the sex needs to stop and there needs to be a conversation, right, because there's a pretty major miscommunication happening

0:44:08 Lydia: Yeah Yeah

0:43:42 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could also see like if they had no idea, like if it's out of nowhere, I could also see just pivot and then explain later, but if

0:44:45 Eli: Yeah. Come on the pages of this cookbook. Yeah.

0:44:52 Thomas: It's

0:45:01 Eli: There's your answer. Oh! I had one other thing that I wanted to talk about Because I think there's one other possibility here, right? Which is that I think our listener, and listener, nobody relates to this more than me, you might have gotten a little porn brain to my friend because the truth is there's like two people on earth who love having cum on their face and they're both gay men, you know what I'm saying, so like, what the part of what the emails okay, Lydia is It's over.

0:45:04 Lydia: Yeah. Mm. Okay.

0:45:25 Thomas: It's not been my experience.

0:45:31 Lydia: I'm just gonna sit quietly over here that's why I'm glowing Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

0:45:40 Thomas: Stop the show. That's it. That's the one.

0:45:43 Eli: Dear, Haha, Sam!

0:45:43 Thomas: Damn. Oh, man. Nailed it.

0:45:48 Eli: Here's the thing. Heard—if you're expecting your partner to be psyched for that, and it ruins your ability to have an orgasm at all, if they're not psyched for it, that seems like maybe you have put some unhealthy expectations on a fantasy that you have. I also—I know I said this in the first episode, but I want to say it again—there are lots of kinks that are hard and time-consuming and expensive to explore that you can just talk about while you do regular sex like yes

0:46:24 Thomas: Yeah, yeah.

0:45:58 Lydia: Hm. Yeah, yeah, from a fantasy perspective, too, yeah, exactly.

0:46:27 Eli: It is totally fine to literally be like, "And now I am buying this French horn at the store."

0:46:37 Lydia: That's the very specific kink.

0:46:38 Eli: Yeah, I can you know what, the reason why I always use like a silly euphemism

0:46:41 Thomas: A-Boz is a musician, you know, she's,

0:46:43 Eli: Is a but is is cuz that's my wife's real kink and it's really important to her and I wanted to shout it out on there. No, you what it is is because I immediately, when I open my mouth to give an example, I think of one of my own kinks, and as someday as I'm dead, my son will be like, "I'm gonna listen to all my dad's podcasts," and he's already gonna deal with so much that

0:46:44 Lydia: Oh that's true, that's true.

0:47:00 Thomas: Uh.

0:47:03 Lydia: It's probably what's in Thomas's dad's diaries so that's why he's not opening them I'm up.

0:47:06 Eli: Yes is just nothing

0:47:07 Thomas: Dear God. I doubt that. Yeah

0:47:09 Lydia: Ha ha ha.

0:47:08 Eli: But kinks and BK but point is, you can say, "I am buying the French horn at this store," and she can say, "That's right, I'm the shopkeep, you're paying for the French horn, and I am handing it to you, and that is a very excellent compromise. And I would say a facial is a great example of Unless you're fucking taking pictures, man, maybe just kinda aim to the side. You know what I'm saying?

0:47:19 Lydia: Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Yeah, yeah.

0:47:22 Thomas: Yeah, exactly yeah exactly

0:47:37 Lydia: And just imagine it in your

0:47:48 Eli: My wife told me that sex is much better on vacation. And I gotta tell you, that wasn't a nice postcard to receive.

0:47:55 Lydia: I like that.

0:47:56 Thomas: That's good.

0:48:02 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email thedads at dearolddads.com or better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle and the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues, LLC, copyright 2022, all rights reserved.

0:48:44 Eli: Gone Tom's not dead he's surely alive

0:48:48 Lydia: I could open my sphincter.

0:48:51 Thomas: Like, that's not anal.

0:48:54 Eli: If you're asking for loads on faces and you're not pineapple maxing,

0:48:59 Lydia: Why I'm glowing