DOD296: Give Your Baby a Whole Bottle of Cocaine

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's that's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired is the only part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that genuinely suggests you give cocaine to your baby. I'm Tom Curry, I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:39 Thomas: Glad tom's coming around finally it's

0:00:40 Eli: Yes, finally.

0:00:42 Tom: A rub it on the gums or do you try to make the little baby snort it? It seems like trying to get him to snort, it seems hard.

0:00:45 Eli: You put it on the binky. Yeah, snorting is a terrible idea, because then you gotta get...

0:00:47 Thomas: A certain age you can the doctors

0:00:49 Eli: You gotta get that bulb, that squeezy bulb for the boogers.

0:00:49 Thomas: Say they can snort it I

0:00:53 Tom: That make sense? I tried getting him to freebase it when they were young and I just couldn't get him. The dexterity isn't there, you know? A

0:00:59 Eli: That's the problem, is they can't hold the spoon. And they hate needles, so... What

0:01:03 Tom: Fucking what a baby. Jesus Christ. What a baby?

0:01:05 Eli: A baby. We always say that about our kids.

0:01:07 Thomas: Have a question you guys hang on to that turkey um baster that you get your kids boogers with you hang yeah I had the same moment I was like well I don't think any of the kids need this anymore but you never know

0:01:13 Tom: What? On to it. Oh,

0:01:20 Eli: Yeah, I got the Electro Booger Suck 9000. And so I just like, first of all, I paid $80 for this thing.

0:01:29 Thomas: Yeah one of the nicest things in eli's house

0:01:32 Eli: And it's also there's this company. I don't remember their name because the time is gone when I purchased their products. But every time I went to buy something, baby, baby. It was Swedish. I remember that baby made the nice version of everything. Right. Could go to CVS and grab a dusty box that didn't work or you could buy baby. And they'd be like this soon. A lawnmower attached. To a syringe to just get everything. Sucked out part of his brain.

0:02:04 Tom: Are you like weirdly a little sentimental about it? Or are you just thinking in the back of, yeah, to the baby sucker 3000?

0:02:10 Eli: Yeah, baby sucker 3000.

0:02:11 Thomas: Still plenty of good boogers in that thing

0:02:16 Eli: The thing. Think about all the baby shit you bought that didn't work. Right?

0:02:16 Tom: Man.

0:02:20 Thomas: Yeah or that or that you used once and then yeah are

0:02:21 Eli: The baby, yeah. Right.

0:02:20 Tom: Of it. It's all of it, yeah? Everything but diapers. Yeah. Yeah the only thing you need is a pack and play and a pack of diapers and a bink that's all you need baby's fine pack and plays fuck binkies fuck everything else is just trash

0:02:24 Eli: Used ones. Is fucking rock. That's, when.

0:02:33 Thomas: The pack and plays the little like prison in that's portable that you put your kids in yeah yeah that my again speaking of memory being gone I know we had at least one baby that just would not fucking do it and that sucked and my probably Remy to be honest with you that's that's a bummer when the baby can occupy itself in baby jail that's man you got a good baby man

0:02:36 Eli: Baby jail baby jail for babies oh

0:02:54 Tom: But like you weren't able to ever put rem like if you were like going to a friend's house for something like bring the baby bring the jail get rock the baby to sleep toss him in the thing have adult time I

0:03:00 Thomas: It's like well you can yeah we can have have a screamy scream scream baby torture prison if that put uh a damper on our social hang if we have a baby screaming as though it's dying at all times yeah you can't it couldn't be alone so that's yeah

0:03:12 Eli: Just couldn't put them down yeah yeah

0:03:16 Tom: I just put him in

0:03:18 Eli: It's warm keep the car running that gets it nice and warm in there yeah it

0:03:21 Tom: It's that nice white noise generator. Yeah, yeah.

0:03:21 Thomas: Yeah that's how like the guy in the dragon tattoo movie. Yeah, exactly. And

0:03:28 Eli: Whenever anyone posts their fucking baby whatever their baby shower list I call them and I say hey I noticed that there's not a pack and play on here Is that because someone already bought it? Most of the time they say yes. That's a little sad for me. But sometimes they're like, oh no, we didn't think of that. And I'm like, I'm getting you a fucking pack and play. And to the person, the two baby gifts I get are always Slamma Jammas. Everyone goes, oh my God, the pack and plays the greatest thing. It's the only thing that works. And everyone goes, Oh my God. The aura frame is the greatest The Aura Frame Tomifer. I get every new parent an Aura frame and I sit down with them. I go, hey, a little bit of a pain in the ass, but we're going to do it right now, right now here together. I take it, I hook it up to the photos app on their phone. I know it's just going to take photos of your kid out of your phone. It's going to toss them onto that frame. And it's going to be the most precious thing in the world to you. And I go, hey, not for this month. Don't worry about it. And then three months in, they're like, hey. That's the best thing that's ever happened. Because it just randomly shows you photos of your baby. Your favorite person in the World. And you don't remember all those photos. Because you took 84 billion of them. So you're just sitting in your office. You look to the left. What's that? He's dressed like a little tiger. It's the fucking best.

0:04:03 Tom: Frame.

0:04:18 Thomas: Do we get a sponsor there?

0:04:20 Tom: What's happening here?

0:04:47 Thomas: Yeah. Boy, someday

0:04:48 Eli: I get them for literally everyone.

0:04:49 Thomas: I'm going to actually do that and I'll be 80 and then I'll finally get all my baby pictures in there and be like, Oh, I used to have kids.

0:04:54 Eli: They're the best. No. See, I am obsessive with the pictures. Because my daddy, who I adore. I love my dad so much. My dad was definitely a gonna do it guy. And as a result, there are nine photos of my childhood. They're in a yellow.

0:05:14 Thomas: Well, I have all the photos in the world. I have a lot of photos, they've just never seen the light of day outside my phone. So yeah, I, I think so.

0:05:22 Eli: You back them up? You back him up? More

0:05:25 Thomas: Yeah.

0:05:25 Eli: Than one place?

0:05:26 Thomas: I think, so yeah, pretty sure I'm going to, I'm gonna check just to make sure after this.

0:05:27 Eli: Two places? I am not a like, oh, my worldly goods guy. Right.

0:05:35 Thomas: Yeah, I'm with, I really care about this actually.

0:05:37 Eli: I lost the fucking photos, I I'm am going on a spree. I would die.

0:05:38 Thomas: Might die.

0:05:42 Tom: God, I couldn't care less. A bad person.

0:05:44 Thomas: Are you talking about?

0:05:46 Tom: My wife loves photos. I bored looking at pictures of anything after a few minutes. Haley really likes looking at photos. She likes looking up memories.

0:05:46 Thomas: You are first

0:05:54 Eli: You can only see him out of one eye.

0:05:56 Tom: Yeah, it doesn't help.

0:05:58 Eli: Blurry.

0:05:58 Thomas: Off putting, baby photos in the category of, well, I just don't like photos in general is such a weird thing.

0:05:59 Eli: Stupid half blurry photo.

0:06:05 Tom: I get bored. I'm like, yeah, that's what the kid looked like. I don't know.

0:06:08 Thomas: If someone was like, why don't you like your own kid that you have? And you're not a big fan of kids. You're like.

0:06:13 Eli: It's like you said, I don't watch porn because I don' like movies.

0:06:13 Tom: I just can't get into it.

0:06:13 Thomas: My God. That's better.

0:06:19 Eli: It's what you said.

0:06:20 Tom: I just can't get into it. I've got a really short attention span for nostalgia.

0:06:22 Thomas: Like movies.

0:06:27 Tom: Nostalgia just doesn't do much for me after a few minutes.

0:06:28 Thomas: Wonder you're so so productive it's

0:06:29 Eli: Spend a long time with the photos. I will tell you, I literally have to put my aura frame in timeout in all of my offices because otherwise I just every 10 seconds look at the frame and I'm like, ah, the best. It's just consumes all of me.

0:06:44 Thomas: The best yeah

0:06:43 Tom: I think that's nice. Don't get me wrong, I have photos laying around, but I'm on my own going to be like, I want to look at my photos. I'm going to look through those old photos. It's just never something that I'm like, oh, I just did that.

0:06:54 Eli: It's not like an activity. I'm not like it's photo looking time, but that's the best thing about the aura frame is the aura flame goes, Hey, real quick photo. And you're like, fuck that. Awesome. God, that rules. Thanks so much. Aura frame and aura frames like, cool. Come back in 10 seconds. There'll be another one. You want to see that one more often touch me.

0:07:13 Thomas: It's getting weird let's

0:07:16 Tom: I've never heard of being like Haley is sentimental about the kids clothes, but I don't think about booger suckers. So that's a, that's level.

0:07:22 Eli: And my God. I'm going to send you and

0:07:23 Tom: That's a level.

0:07:23 Eli: Haley. So I have, every hey, podcast listener, if you listen to our other shows, don't narc me out to Aura Flame. Every time Aура Frame becomes sponsor, they're like, how many do you want? And I'm like, 90. And they're just fucking, you know, they don't fucking care. So, I have a stack of them and I give them to everyone when they have a baby, every family member. Ima send you guys an Aura frame. You're going to fucking, well, Haley is going to Love it. It's the best. And I'll say this. You don't have to do them nice. You can do them where you put them against the wall and you run the plug through the wall so that you don't see it and you keep the power behind it and it looks a like changing picture frame on the wall. That rocks hard, but you can just put it on a desk with a plug going behind it.

0:07:44 Tom: Haley will love it. Yeah.

0:08:02 Thomas: Just say that's not Eli though yeah

0:08:03 Tom: Yeah, no, no. It'll, it'll live in a box.

0:08:08 Thomas: We do we do have one in a box I think that uh we had one set up we Phoebe and then it just I think it just has Phoebe pictures so now it'd be a little unfair fair. Just like the other kids aren't even in there.

0:08:11 Eli: Get it fucking out. The better. Show them what's what.

0:08:24 Tom: None of my photos in my phone are organized. Do you have to organize your shit? Because I've never looked at my photos on my phone and organized them.

0:08:29 Eli: That's the best part.

0:08:29 Thomas: I'd have to spend weeks making sure it wasn't nudes. You know, like I just have to.

0:08:34 Tom: Jesus Christ. I

0:08:36 Eli: Yeah. What's nice is that it does it based. It connects directly to your Google photos and Google photos secretly uses AI to categorize everyone's face for you. So you just go like, I want all the photos of these three people. And then it just does it.

0:08:50 Tom: Don't even know if I have Google Photos. Dude, I literally don't care about pictures at all. I never go back.

0:08:53 Eli: Don't have Google photos. Crazy. Haley, if

0:08:54 Thomas: My God, dude.

0:08:59 Tom: It's so boring to me.

0:09:00 Thomas: What are

0:09:00 Eli: You're listening and I know you are.

0:09:00 Thomas: You going to do with the later half of your life? Well, no, you're already dead. Nevermind. Be

0:09:04 Eli: I was gonna say, we're in the last quarter of a second.

0:09:07 Tom: My own person. I'm not, like, spend

0:09:09 Eli: Easy

0:09:09 Tom: My time looking back, you know?

0:09:10 Thomas: My own person my

0:09:10 Eli: For him to say. It's like, well, how are we gonna build this rocket while it's on the launch pad?

0:09:17 Thomas: Own person is enjoying pictures of phoebens like come on weird like

0:09:23 Eli: Right. But gentlemen, do you know the only thing worse than the fact that Tom has no desire to reflect on the childhood of his children? Why, it's the auto -ants. The auto - ants. The podcasting experience of slowly losing everyone you love to time and memory. But you can make those go away with a little reminder of what our podcast has been like over the years over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dads where for as little as a dollar a show you get a commercial free episode. Commercial free episode? Yeah, that's what it's called. Okay. I got it. Nailed it in one. Commercial free version. There it was. I knew there was a word in there I was missing. Of every single show. Plus, a little parenting story at the end. Tons of fun. All sorts of stuff. Check it out. Bonus episodes as well. Patreon .com forward slash Dear Old Dads. Patreon dot com forward slash dear old dads. Rip into it.

0:10:13 Thomas: Tom not into the box of the aura frame rip into it on

0:10:17 Tom: What? She would

0:10:18 Eli: Oh, I'm sending one to Haley. She's going to set it up with all cool ones.

0:10:21 Tom: Like it a lot better than I would. I just would keep it in the box forever.

0:10:22 Eli: Let me say this. Tom doesn't hate his wife. I bet if she sets it up with photos of them doing fun stuff, he might like it.

0:10:31 Tom: Here's the thing. I have photos on my desk and they're fine. I like them well enough. It's cool. But I'm never going to be like, I'm going to look through my old yearbook or I'm photos like I just don't do it it's just not it just it has it doesn't hold my attention

0:10:36 Thomas: Your desk does one have a photo on their desk do you take your old phone and like just freeze it on the photo and set it there there.

0:10:50 Tom: Just that's exactly yeah that's it yeah yeah

0:10:52 Eli: Can you imagine a phone that was flatter and taller? It's crazy. It's never mind.

0:10:57 Tom: What

0:10:58 Thomas: I don't know. This is weird.

0:11:08 Eli: Gentlemen, we some questions that we're going to get to today. A potpourri, if you will. But before we do, it's time for me to talk to you about...

0:11:11 Thomas: Maybe.

0:11:17 Eli: Mid -Watch 2026. Is that what year it is? MedWatch.

0:11:21 Thomas: God, maybe.

0:11:22 Eli: So, for those of you who are just tuning in, we have started Max on some medication for his set of symptoms that present as ADD slash ADHD. We started with Quillelvent, which baby Ritalin. It didn't do much. Baby RitalIN didn't much. Still punching people in faces, still taking down his enemies one person at a time. So we switched him. Last week to baby Adderall. Now. Have been microdosing him up to a dose so we can watch out for side effects, things like sleep or loss of appetite or just feeling weird. If any of you have taken any of the the meths, the ADD meths. You know that the first day can be pretty intense. But since didn't affect him at all. His doctor was like, hey, let's get fucking wet and wild. Why don't we just start him on? A dose. Which is why we ended up with Coke Party for Babies! Now, for those of you who have never been up all night with a friend who has done too much cocaine, you will not recognize all the beats that I recognized in my son. But for me, it was simultaneously bad, because obviously my kid's experiencing a sad side effect, but also the funniest thing that has ever happened. So, nerds out there who haven't done the incredibly destructive drug cocaine, let me explain what happens when you do too much cocaine. When you do the right amount of cocaine, which by the way, I cannot recommend enough. Boys, girls, non -binary pals, get out there and do some cocaine. But if you do a little bit less than too much of it, that it kills you, it feels... And the way that I can sort of describe it is, you know the, uh -oh, that was too many, oh, sorry, Tom, you're not going to identify with this at all, please forgive me. You know the oh, that -was -one -too -many -cups -of -coffee feeling?

0:11:38 Thomas: I haven't heard of that one. Yeah. I've sampled.

0:13:26 Tom: Impossible

0:13:27 Eli: Okay, yep, no, I understand, I understood. Thomas, can with such a feeling?

0:13:28 Tom: Cannot no

0:13:29 Thomas: Tom, you should get on cocaine. Maybe we need to get Tom on cocaine?

0:13:33 Tom: Tried cocaine and I found it meh like

0:13:35 Thomas: Yeah, that sounds, sounds right.

0:13:35 Eli: Lacking. Nowhere close to the cold brew extract he craves.

0:13:39 Tom: I honestly I've I've cocaine a few times and I've been like, this as much ado about nothing was my feeling on it.

0:13:43 Thomas: Well, when you've accidentally seen God from your coffee mix that you had, I imagine it's all downhill from there.

0:13:48 Eli: Your coffee consumption. Yeah. Cocaines. We got to get some crack going for Tom.

0:13:52 Tom: And coffee tastes a lot better. Coke tastes so fucking bad. It tastes like unbelievably bad, like the terrible coke.

0:13:57 Thomas: Now, do you taste it? Is that part of the process yeah

0:13:56 Eli: He eat a big spoonful of it on cereal. And that was that was on him is eating it like cereal. I told him I told them not to, but he kept saying cocaine for Cocoa Puffs, which is nothing. It was an I told it was not even good wordplay. Yeah, so basically it is that sort of shaky, nauseous, unbalanced feeling. You're just sort of like, oh, okay, I can't wait for this to wear off. When will it wear off? And the answer is never, never.

0:14:04 Tom: That's bad.

0:14:28 Eli: You will spend the next... Nine years of your life away. So we give Max his cocaine for babies and immediately he's like a little weepy, a little moody, a I keep having to ask him stuff and he keeps turning to me and being like, what? But Like, not the fun. What? Like the like, huh? What did I miss? And I'm like, oh, it's okay, buddy. Comes home. He was up until my son for, to be clear, it has not always been easy. Be my son's parent a wonderful delightful joy but it hasn't been easy there have not been a lot of things that I've been like he's a really easy baby the way in which my son has been easy since moment one is sleep so when I tell you that my son has been asleep by 10 p .m. at the latest every single night of his entire life, I am not exaggerating. I am NOT lying. I AM NOT telling you a fib. He has been ASLEEP by 10 P .M. Eastern Standard Time every night of HIS LIFE EXCEPT for Cocaine Night for Babies where he was up until 2 in the morning! Just... running around his room in circles. Now, keep in mind that the wooziness at that point had worn off, so he just couldn't sleep. So he kept, like, lying down and reading a Dogman book and then being like, fucking dog! Girl, what is this? Stupid! Literally going, came in every 20, he would come in or call us into his room every 20 minutes and be like, when we go to Disney World, can we see Goofy? And I'd be like yeah, man, or I'll kill him. If you don't go to sleep,

0:16:04 Eli: I'll fucking shoot him. I'll shoot Goofy dead if you don't fucking stop calling me in. So yeah, my son bought some Bitcoin and started a band.

0:16:14 Thomas: Gonna say I started playing stock futures and all all that

0:16:17 Eli: Started pitching me on the podcast that we need to start together until two in the morning. And then the next morning I wake him up. I'm like, hey, buddy, how you doing? He's like, water. And I was like, yeah, there it is. Come on.

0:16:27 Tom: He had a bender. He was on a straight up bender, so

0:16:30 Eli: Let's go get you some pancakes and delete all the texts you sent your ex. Come on, let's go.

0:16:35 Tom: What dose is baby Adderall? Is it like five milligrams or less, or what is it? What is the dosage for?

0:16:41 Eli: It's the fucking Wild West out there. It's the fuckin' Wild West. There's no, I mean, you do it by weight, obviously, so that your kid doesn't take off into outer space, but it depends so much, because what you're doing is you are, and keep in mind that I'm not a scientist, I don't know shit about fuck, you're trying to match the too fast that their brain goes. So basically, you speed up their brain so that their mind catches up to their thoughts, very scientific answer, now everyone knows I'm a real doctor. They And just are normal, right? Because the brain is going as fast as the thoughts are going. And so it's by weight, but it's also how fast their fucking brain is So given that, I have a hunch, I'm going to save it for the parenting story, Max's checkup, because it's fucking amazing. But his said something really interesting to me at his annual checkup. Which I agree with, because I was telling her baby cocaine story. And she, of course, greatly enjoyed that story. I'm a teller of tales, a weaver of words. Then, you know, she's looking at him. And he, you know, he's being him. And she says something really interesting that I liked a lot. She said, ADHD is a description of symptoms.

0:17:18 Tom: Gotcha.

0:17:53 Eli: Autism is a diagnosis. I see the symptoms of ADHD. I do not see the diagnosis, which I interpret to mean, through her wise, wise words, as this is a kid who is not necessarily going to stimulant out of his ADHD symptoms in the same way. So we're going to keep experimenting. I will keep using my son as the laboratory for child pharmaceuticals that he is, and we'll report back.

0:18:20 Tom: What did she mean by ADHD? Because ADHD is a formally recognized diagnosis. Oh,

0:18:24 Eli: Is, but it is also a, is a set of symptoms that comes from other diagnoses as well. Right. So like you can have, right.

0:18:30 Tom: So it can come from other diagnoses

0:18:32 Eli: You can have ADHD because of your autism. You have ADD because of you're OCD.

0:18:32 Tom: As well. Yeah, right. Right, and you can just have it stand alone as well, yeah, right, yeah.

0:18:39 Thomas: It was overlap yeah right

0:18:40 Eli: That But is not true of autism, right? You don't have autism because of depression.

0:18:46 Tom: Gotcha, gotcha. So you guys tried them on what, like Was that the first one you tried them On? Yeah, yeah But

0:18:49 Eli: We did. And then we're baby cocaine for babies was Diana. Diana.

0:18:58 Tom: It's an amphetamine salt, it's like one of the amphetamines salts, yeah I was just curious, yeah

0:19:04 Eli: In fact, we did the two fetamines. The thing that is fucking limiting about this, and then I promise I'll stop talking about my son's cocaine, is that he only does liquid medicines. He doesn't do... And if you have a kid who only does fluid medicines, it's so funny because they're like, mix it into his favorite food. And I'm like, goldfish crackers? You fucking idiot. You paint it yellow?

0:19:28 Tom: It's like, it's like I already have problems feeding this kid. I'm going to like put something that tastes bad and that he doesn't trust that food either. Let me just knock one of his trusted foods right off the big board here. No problem. Thanks for the advice, asshole.

0:19:41 Eli: That medicine is a no -choice sitch. But it's not a fun no -joice sitsch. Now, I will say, he's been amazing about the two liquid meds. We do a little taste thing. He's like, that fucking sucks. I'm like, tell me about it, brother. And then we drink it down. But there's like no wrestling, no muss, no fuss. He has been really excellent about it. But... That is a trust line that I don't just cross willy -nilly, right?

0:20:05 Tom: Right.

0:20:05 Eli: So it's not me just being like, and now this yogurt's gonna taste like shit. Gotcha.

0:20:11 Tom: Yeah, man. Like that is, I feel like that that's like a, especially for kids that have eating. Sensitivities, there's no way. I think about Donovan and Aislinn, both of whom have tried or been on stimulant medicines and non -stimulant medicines for ADHD. There's no fucking world where I'd be like, yeah, these guys barely eat anything and have a really short, abbreviated list of trusted and safe foods. Let me go ahead and adulterate those.

0:20:37 Eli: Tricky.

0:20:37 Tom: There is no fucking way I would do that.

0:20:37 Eli: It's time to get tricky.

0:20:41 Tom: No way would I do that

0:20:42 Eli: The yogurt times, never forget, braver than the troops, I mixing the vitamins so that he didn't die into the yogurts. And would wake up in the night and like shake them. I'd be like, I can't get it. There's one clump of vitamin in here. That's it. That is the last food. There is going to be a sad song and a TV commercial about him and that is it. He is gone. He's gone. Lose my boy.

0:21:08 Tom: I'll say on the the stimulants front, Donovan. So Donovan's got pretty significant ADHD. And we we did try with him.

0:21:16 Eli: Allegedly.

0:21:16 Tom: We did try by Vance with him and Adderall. And he had the same problem. Like he had mood problems with them. And I used to have mood problems. With Adderall as well. I would take Adderhall. And then like middle of the day. Late afternoon. I Like would be in a real dark mood. Like it would really affect dramatically my mood. It doesn't anymore.

0:21:35 Tom: I think I've adjusted to it. After you know a number of years of taking it. So it doesn't bother me at all anymore. But like Donovan discontinued it. And even though he has like pretty significant ADHD. Successful He's in focusing on skill building, and he has been totally unmedicated since middle school. With really significant ADHD, but really has worked really hard with therapists on skill building. And he's going to get his master's degree in a couple of years here and going to do the whole thing unmedicated. So for some kids, if work well with them, if they can find a therapist that's really good with that skill building and they devote the time to it, there are some kids who can work around it. I'm not saying it's true for everybody. Aislinn takes stimulant medications and it works great for her.

0:22:17 Eli: I mean, and some people meds are just like, yeah, and exactly. Some keep, some people are like meds turns on the lights and some are skill building. I was always, I my medication of course for depression, but I was a therapy person, right? Like my medication was great support for my therapy, but like doing CBT, not CBT. CBT? Cognitive behavior. Yes, CBT. I'm always like, it can't be cock and ball torture, but it is. It is cock andball torture. Doing my cock andbal torture, doing my ass and cock torture, those have always been like the big...

0:22:41 Tom: Jesus Christ.

0:22:47 Thomas: This whole time it actually is like for my depression there's only one there's only one thing.

0:22:53 Tom: Just cock and ball torture. That's all it really gets.

0:22:56 Eli: Wait, you guys are writing stuff down. Is it what you want people to do to your cock and balls? I don't understand that. That makes sense. But like that, that work has always been really effective for me. And I mean, you, Tom, you and I are the same prophetizers of the feeling. I'm too pushy with feeling good. I feel like a Christian about feeling good, right? Like people will be like, it's been pretty hard since my dad died. And You know, there's a book that's been scientifically proven to do a real...

0:23:23 Thomas: You know, if you tie your balls in

0:23:24 Eli: Have you had someone kick you in the nuts as hard as she can?

0:23:24 Thomas: A knot, saving

0:23:30 Tom: Over here like we're we love cock andball torture over here in the Curry House. It's a bit. Yeah. No, we all four of the kids have, done, have uh, cognitive behavioral therapy now. Yeah. All of them for different reasons, you know?

0:23:37 Thomas: Works

0:23:40 Eli: About torture. Dude, it's the best. Here's the thing, because here's the cool thing about cock and ball torture. And look, I say this as a beloved medicine advocate. I fucking love me a pill. Thank you, medical Jesus, for your sweet, sweet pills that rain down on high. But we have also, everyone who loves and appreciates medication also knows that sometimes that shit swings and misses. Sometimes you're like, oh no, not that pill. Fuck. Oh, you got me, pill. Good one. And cock and ball torture. You do your cock and bull torture. Okay.

0:24:16 Eli: It works right every time. And I'll also tell you this. I'll tell you, this, let me say something brave and incredibly unhelpful to people who need it and are in the most desperate part of their lives. Maybe you're not doing it right. If it's not working for you, maybe you're working hard enough because

0:24:17 Thomas: Every time. Yeah. I was going to say, I am really the opposite. I have cock and ball torture.

0:24:34 Eli: Whenever someone says.

0:24:35 Thomas: It doesn't do it for me. It's the medication.

0:24:36 Eli: Whenever anyone says their cock and ball torture doesn't work, I go, you do it every day? And they go, no. And I go then you're not torturing your cock and balls.

0:24:42 Thomas: Wait, how do you do it every day?

0:24:46 Tom: Well, I think that's the thing. It's like, there's is so much evidence that it is. I mean, clinically, it is as good or better than most other interventions. It's always available and there's no side effects, but it is something that is actively has to become a part of your life. And so many people.

0:25:02 Thomas: You guys do do have to pay someone to torture your cock and balls, right?

0:25:06 Tom: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, it is something that you have to actively participate in, like all the time until those tools become embedded in your natural thought processes. Aislinn did food therapy, eating therapy. And because, like she really just didn't have the time to integrate those tools into her daily life, the therapy wasn't particularly effective. She went once a week. She tried. She engaged with the therapy. On a weekly basis. But then the six days that followed between that and her next session, she wasn't able really to follow up and do the work and integrate those tools into her daily practice. And so it's not effective. But it's really effective if you do the other thing. And we tell the kids all the time, the nice thing about these tools is once you learn them, they're just there for you.

0:25:06 Eli: We do have tortures. Obviously. Yeah.

0:25:51 Tom: They're there for you for the rest of your life. They're always something you have to reach back into your toolbox and grab and use. And there's never any side effects and they're always there. And once you build them, you don't have to pay for them again because you have these skills. You learn how to like literally do these things which are learnable and attainable and you can reach back

0:26:11 Eli: Some pretty severe side effects. For instance, it turned me into a miserable piece of shit who can't stop talking about that book, and I think you should consider how much more harmful that is than a loss of appetite. I think a lot of people would like me to eat less at meals they've sat with me at, and a lot more people would Also, while I'm plugging the books, I do just want to remind everybody that the answer is, but what if my life is bad, is ACT. ACT, ass and cock torture, is for when your life is actually bad and you don't just think your life. So that's, they got one for both. Because sometimes people are like, but then when the soldiers came to my village, and I'm like, first of all, stop, relax.

0:26:52 Eli: ACT. I'm talking about sad boys whose parents loved them too much. We get cock and ball torture. Everyone else can have ACT. Tom should have ACT, honestly. ACT would be fucking great. Based on... Do you? Do you, Tom?

0:26:59 Tom: I feel fine, weirdly enough. Yeah! I do 99 %

0:27:12 Eli: Fucking... He's lying to you, audience.

0:27:12 Thomas: Doesn't have time to feel

0:27:13 Tom: Of the time. I do.

0:27:14 Eli: Lying to you.

0:27:14 Thomas: Any other way.

0:27:16 Eli: Not feeling okay.

0:27:15 Tom: I'm pretty good, actually.

0:27:19 Eli: He's just doing the average.

0:27:20 Thomas: Would take too much time to feel a different way. So

0:27:23 Tom: What am I going to do? Get up earlier to feel something? I'm not doing that.

0:27:26 Eli: That's Who's got the time? All right, gentlemen, we got some emails to cover. These are quick ones because the answers are easy. Did you have more on cock and bell torture?

0:27:43 Tom: No, no.

0:27:44 Eli: On cocaine?

0:27:43 Thomas: I just, I can't, I'm excited to hear Eli just nail some easy emails. It'd be fun. I want

0:27:49 Eli: Easy emails. Well, look, hey, Thomas, if you think this first email isn't easy, this is going to be a bummer. This comes to us from, oh, by the way, hey, folks, did you know that we answer emails? Why, you can send us emails to thedads@dearolddads.com

0:28:06 Thomas: To be very clear we do not answer any emails we may talk shit about you

0:28:08 Eli: .com. We'll read it on air, but you can sent us the shit.

0:28:13 Thomas: You will get zero response from us I don't

0:28:17 Eli: There will be no response unless, yeah, nope,

0:28:17 Tom: We don't all even have access to that mailbox. I don't.

0:28:21 Thomas: Even know where eli gets these to be honest

0:28:25 Eli: Someone from the show will send you back. This is inappropriate. If you send us something inappropriate and then otherwise we just read it on the show. So. The Uh, dads@dearolddads.com. All right. Dads, dads. This comes to us from a listener. Dad's dads. Help me out here. My wife and I finally got around to watching the biopic of Michael Jackson. She thinks Michael Jackson is weirdo who never grew up. She argues that the court cases and the posthumous documentaries are just grifters. I don't know enough and she made good arguments against those specific cases but I can argue with his own words that he has slept with boys in the same damn bedroom and according to news articles he has censors alerting him when people would approach his bedroom When given a hypothetical situation of letting a son stay the night at Neverland Ranch, she hesitated. I feel insane. Help me out or tell me I am insane. But I do have a guess of a hypothetical of what Eli would do if Max spent the night. That said, I do believe inappropriate behavior between adults and children can involve pants being on the whole time. Mr. Rogers clearly loved kids, but at no point did you go, wow. That guy is fucking inappropriate. Yes, it's okay to be weird, but don't let power and money mask inappropriate behavior with people who don't have power.

0:29:46 Thomas: I see what you mean yeah

0:29:46 Tom: Isn't a complicated one. I I don'T understand the special pleading cases that like Michael Jackson gets over like literally every other. Alleged or convicted sex offender I really truly don't like I don't get it at all there is as much evidence or more that Michael Jackson was a fucking sex creep than so many other people that like we have all agreed to throw away because like fucking ill right and like we believe the victims and there's not like one or two or three victims for Michael there's so many and like He gets a weird special pleading, I think, because Thriller rules. And I don't think that's a good reason. I just don't know. I don' t think that' s a good reasn. And it kind of hurts me, too, because, like, Thriller Rules, but still, fucking ew.

0:30:36 Thomas: But okay his music is is you know it's interesting he was talented but his music ist also fucking weird like nobody the thing I wasn't there for michael jackson I only came to michael jason late when he died actually was was when like the first time I ever even like heard a Michael Jackson song I seriously knew none of it and when I heard it I was like this is kind of weird like this guy like clearly the person who wrote this is bizarre like this all I'm saying you know what I mean the signs are there like the the music is weird yeah

0:31:08 Tom: There for Michael Jackson. Like, I was a child. Born in 1978. He was height of his popularity.

0:31:13 Eli: You're so old.

0:31:14 Tom: I know. Height of his popularity was the height of my...

0:31:14 Thomas: Fuck are we allowed to do a podcast with someone that old is that that's

0:31:19 Eli: It feels like we're doing some kind of public service when we let him...

0:31:21 Thomas: Wrong yeah I'm gonna talk to my tax guy yeah

0:31:26 Tom: Yeah. But like Michael Jackson has nine separate accusers. Nine separate accusers. What other person are we like? Yeah.

0:31:33 Eli: Nine.

0:31:38 Tom: I mean, it's what? What?

0:31:38 Thomas: Tom have you considered that those are just nine opportunists who are just there because that because the minute you accuse Michael Jackson oh life of luxury after that yeah the

0:31:45 Tom: Opportunistic grifters.

0:31:51 Eli: It is so good. It's so easy and chill to accuse Michael Jackson of things. Yeah. So, yeah.

0:31:55 Thomas: Most beloved person that apparently apparently even this guy's partner is like a mouthpiece for somehow.

0:32:01 Eli: Yeah, I think your partner. So I assume when you're talking about the biopic of Michael Jackson, you're talk about the new one. I think you're partner needs to do a little bit of research into how much the Michael Jackson estate has sued and bribed people to shut down legitimate journalism. Right. So like finding Neverland, which is the sort of consummate journalistic document, documentary on. His abuse of children and interviews with his victims is gone from the internet, right? HBO?

0:32:36 Eli: HBO took it down. You can find it on pirate websites. And I recommend leaving

0:32:35 Tom: HBO. Yep, It's actually called Leaving Netherland, by the way. Everyone thinks it's, yeah.

0:32:43 Eli: Neverland. Yeah.

0:32:42 Thomas: I was going to say you, I was gonna say, Oh, the Johnny Depp one. Yeah.

0:32:46 Tom: Yeah, no, yeah, it's Leaving Neverland.

0:32:48 Eli: Can find it on pirate sites. I recommend your partner check that out. The amount of people that need to be lying and the specificity that they need to lying with and the interpretations of the things he said around the things they did. It's beyond belief. Right? Is nine coincidences all making up very similar patterns of behavior, some of which he confirmed.

0:33:22 Tom: I will say, too, I think that there's a tension that it's worth acknowledging that you can feel really bad for somebody and then also acknowledge that like that doesn't ameliorate what they did. So, like, I do think about like Michael Jackson. I think he had a terrible life. I don't think he ever had an opportunity to be normal.

0:33:48 Tom: His entire I youth was stolen from him, the ways he was abused. I feel bad for that guy. I think you can feel bad and be like, yeah, but also, I think he was fucking sexually assaulting children. It doesn't mean that one ameliorates the other, but I think people feel a little uncomfortable there because it is really true that this guy had a really fucked up life and I think And I think that he also is credibly accused by nine separate people. And I when you see him in interviews talk about sharing beds with children, children that aren't even his children. That's one thing to share a bed with your own kid, right? Like your kid crawls into bed with you in the middle of the night. You've got to sleep in the same bed as your child. That is fucking normal. That s fine. These aren't like relatives or anything. These are just people. That he brings to his weird, isolated ranch full of cameras and trip alarms. I'm sorry, what?

0:33:54 Eli: Of course! -hmm.

0:34:47 Thomas: Don't know. Tom, let

0:34:48 Eli: Yeah,

0:34:48 Tom: Like, what?!

0:34:50 Thomas: He who is without sin.

0:34:53 Tom: Jesus!

0:34:53 Eli: To Yeah. To a bummer momentarily, and I promise I'll get right back to goof troops. Is important that part the of the whitewashing has been to obfuscate the fact that he raped a lot of children. Right. That this is not this is

0:35:05 Thomas: I Don't Actually Know Much About This. Oh, that sucks. Whoa.

0:35:10 Eli: Estate of Jackson has done is they've been like you know there was some weirdness haven't we all right he had a monkey isn't that wacky but like no he raped a bunch of children he actively raped and had penetrative sex with a bunch and so that yeah yeah so that's important for us to acknowledge because the the estate has done their best to cover that up but that is what happened or or nine little separate liars depending on how you feel and obviously it changes and people love to nitpick that stories changed and the end why did they keep working with them and blah blah blah and those are those are sort of the standard rape apologetics

0:35:53 Thomas: It's also when you find yourself saying, I bet those nine children that that adult invited to his ranch and put slept in his bed with her lying. It's like, boy, those are bad odds. Michael Jackson really just drew bad odds there.

0:36:07 Thomas: Ah, you think you can invite any child into your bed, but you know what?

0:36:05 Eli: Those are he fucking rolled nothing snake eyes untrustworthy

0:36:13 Thomas: Sometimes they turn out to be liars. That's so horrible

0:36:16 Eli: Unreliable traitorous children traitorous that's what they say all right yeah michael jackson a rapist watch leaving neverland and be nice to your partner because it seems like they're a female identifying person and sometimes learning graphic details about sexual assault is hard so don't don't do the neener neener dance until you check in Make sure you aren't standing up to be like, in your face, and then you see tears rolling down cheeks. Gotta play it cool. Play it cool. Alright, next easy question. Gentlemen, are you ready?

0:36:48 Thomas: My

0:36:57 Eli: Hi dads! I don't have a life question, but I saw this election.

0:37:00 Thomas: Wife's a big Epstein fan she keeps defending

0:37:01 Eli: My wife's a big Epstein fan. Why would he say he didn't do it?

0:37:05 Tom: His island was just misunderstood. Yeah.

0:37:07 Eli: Yeah. If dance! I don't have a life question but this lecture from economics Nobel laureate Claudia Golden. And I was curious to hear your take on it since it touches on the costs of parenting and traditional masculinity. She studied the correlation of rising wealth within countries and their subsequently falling birth rates over time. She put countries in two camps. High fertility to low fertility and high fertility to medium fertility. She that the drop in fertility overall is driven by women gaining the ability to independent. If this change in countrywide wealth and women's status happens suddenly, it creates a cultural gap in values. Women quickly learn to value equality in the labor of work as well as child rearing, while men are more likely to be stuck in the previous generation's traditional values, I .e. women doing all the childcare for a lot of kids. In medium -fertility countries, however, this transition happened more slowly, which has meant more members of the previous generation, and therefore their sons, seeing the value of sharing childcare and housework more equally. Women are more likely to partner with men who share the load of parenting work. When there is a dearth of men who will share, women are more

0:37:07 Thomas: Yeah yeah

0:38:28 Eli: As has been happening in Korea. You guys are frank about the enormous amount of time and money it takes to raise a kid in our society. What are your thoughts about the implications of this model?

0:38:37 Tom: I've got a couple of thoughts, but the first is a minor nitpick. I don't understand why we talk about fertility rather than birth rate, because I don't think that anybody is suggesting that women are less or men are less fertile than they were. They are having less children, but that doesn't necessarily well, nobody with any fucking sense.

0:38:51 Thomas: I think it's well I

0:38:53 Eli: RFKJr is, maybe tune into my fucking show every so often.

0:38:56 Tom: Right. Nobody with any fuckin sense.

0:38:56 Thomas: Do I could be wrong I do think I both agree with you Tom but I also think that's like the technical term for how many babies people a people are having or whatever so like I think it's like I

0:39:05 Tom: Is it really? Because that feels weird to me.

0:39:06 Thomas: I think I agree I think this I feel like this has come up on my show before maybe I or I could be making that up either way I agree with you that like the common perception of it is weird because you're like what do you what do You mean it's not like people aren't going infertile yeah

0:39:21 Tom: Right. Yeah, I guess I worry that that language is being like by idiots on the right because I know that it is, you know, so

0:39:28 Thomas: Or just being it definitely is but or just just being misunderstood.

0:39:30 Eli: Worry about a thing that's happening.

0:39:31 Thomas: Yeah. Or just being misunderstood by people who aren't shitty. Like, oh, are we getting less for, yeah.

0:39:37 Tom: Right, right. Well, because, you

0:39:42 Thomas: Sperm count and crap. Yeah, I count my sperm every day.

0:39:44 Eli: My episode this week of GAM was about. Just listen to my fucking shows.

0:39:48 Eli: I'm a patron of your shows, Tom. It's fine. Compliment your video episodes.

0:39:50 Thomas: It's totally. Wait, wait, hold on. Eli, gun to your head. Does Tom know his sperm? Does he track his sperm count?

0:39:56 Eli: A hundred percent. Down to the hundred.

0:39:58 Tom: I've got a vasectomy. It's it better be zero.

0:40:01 Thomas: It's zero. Oh, wait.

0:40:03 Tom: It better be fucking zero. Yeah.

0:40:01 Eli: And he checks every morning. Sticks

0:40:03 Thomas: Does that mean to zero. Okay.

0:40:05 Tom: If it's not zero, there's a problem.

0:40:05 Eli: His pinky into a sample jar. Nope, still nothing. Nice.

0:40:06 Thomas: I forgot

0:40:11 Tom: God damn. I hope it's zero.

0:40:12 Thomas: About that. Yay.

0:40:13 Eli: Negative one.

0:40:13 Thomas: I know my sperm count too then.

0:40:15 Tom: I think.

0:40:15 Eli: If it gets too cloudy in there, I shoot it with a gun.

0:40:16 Thomas: Woohoo.

0:40:22 Eli: Nice try.

0:40:23 Tom: I think there's something to be said, though, about the if the model switches quickly, there are people that don't adapt well and specifically men that don'T adapt well. I think that that's that implication in her question about. When birth rates, I'm going to use birth rates because fertility still sticks in my craw. When birth rate changes too quickly when women, or not too quickly, but too quickly for society to adapt. When women's education and financial well -being increases too quickly. I think that there's some at least anecdotal evidence that that is part of what creates this sort of like. Pushback and the creation of the manosphere and this idea that like men are now on the outside I think there's some real truth to that concept

0:41:07 Thomas: I think my, yeah, I think I would agree if the solution people are proposing is find a way to get these idiots to not do that. But I don't know that that's always where this is coming from. Um, I feel like it's also coming.

0:41:18 Tom: I don't know about solutions I'm just saying I think that identifies the problem right yeah I

0:41:22 Eli: You know, speaking to that, there's a great book. It's fucking dated as fuck, but like the ideas rock and it's such an early book that it's kind of cool just that it existed in its time. Have you guys read Susan Faludi's Backlash? Guys, you gotta fucking read it. I'm trying to find out what year that book was from because it's 1991 and it is just the fucking like... So here's all the fucking meninist and men's rights activism movement is what they're going to do. We'd moved too fast. Hey guys, we moved too far. We all got credit cards in the same year and they freaked out. And so here's what's the next, here's the, the next 40 years of history are going to be like, uh, everyone should get ready. And also like, what's amazing is she also just also predicts all the like traders along the way. And she's like, and Hey, there's going to

0:41:37 Tom: Have not no

0:41:38 Thomas: Man. I'm not sure. God, it sounds really familiar. Wow.

0:42:18 Eli: Toxic bitches and they should all be dead. Like, she might as well end that book by being like, oh shit, fucking Medea's here with an axe.

0:42:35 Tom: Say that, like, I have had and I don't have a solution to any of this, obviously, because like that would be awesome and nothing awesome ever happens. But like I I have felt for a long time that like is a need for something else to stand in for men, because I think that socially there's this like of roles that they watched their parents and grandparents, et cetera, grow up with and that those roles are less. Important and less valuable and less functional socially than they used to be. And I think there's a lot of people that are struggling with what to replace there. I think the tension in that gap is what creates room for all of these manosphere assholes. And so I've had this idea for a long time that there needs to be really pretty -defined ideas about, hey, here's a prescription for masculinity if you need one that is not a problem. And you can plug into it. Because there's some people, I think, that want that. They want to plug into a social prescription where they understand how their identity can be valued in a society. And I think for a long time, a lot of guys have had that. And now for a lot They feel like they don't have that, and that gap leaves really problematic room that isn't being filled.

0:43:46 Thomas: Push back just for the sake of argument here. And I'm, I might, I'm Not sure. Yeah.

0:43:51 Eli: Edgelord Thomas Smith.

0:43:53 Thomas: I, I, wonder if, cause I don't, I don' know. Like, I feel there's plenty of role for men. That's I sort of like the the economic what explaining trump it's like yeah but also no like it be that it's the men who mainly needed the fake version of that status that's granted to them for no reason and really you can still easily have a masculinity that is valuable to people but you don't just get it for no reasons now you know know?

0:44:22 Tom: Yeah, but I agree with that. I'm not saying that I have any idea of how to solve for this, because I don't know how to prescribe, or even if it's possible to prescribe.

0:44:31 Eli: Cut to Tom gently putting away course materials for his The New Masculinity nine -week program.

0:44:37 Tom: I don't know that it's even possible to do. I think the problem, honestly, is that it requires a degree of thoughtfulness. That up until now, many people have not had to engage and most people aren't equipped to do. And that's a problem. I think when had a whole bunch of social structures that said, hey, just be like this guy. Thumbs up sign there's a lot of people are just like I know how to plug into that because I watch generations after generation plug into it I watch tv and movies and you know media tell me how to I have an archetype and most people are stupid and they're not thoughtful and they don't build intentional versions of themselves and so they absent archetypes I think there's uh maybe a drift a little bit and I think that is not good for those people I don't think like anyone else at fault for somebody else not being like introspective and thoughtful about building their own intentional self

0:45:01 Eli: Marlboro Man.

0:45:38 Thomas: It's not that it's, it'S that I, I wonder if it would make a difference what solution you go for by identifying the problem slightly differently, because I don't know if men are really required or need to act all that differently, really. Um, it might just be that that the people around them are different. Like hypothetically, if it was that,

0:46:01 Eli: Heard him, folks. Thomas thinks men are perfect just the way they are.

0:46:05 Thomas: No, not in that sense, in the sense that like there, there may have been unearned, uh, okay, let's say, uh. Let's, let'S use my household as an example. Like my dad was, you given given the deference for, because he was, uh, the angry dude in the house, you know? And it's not as though he needs, like, he still did a lot of dad man stuff that was valuable as a dad, that stuff, he wouldn't really need to change. But like, if one day we all decided, oh, we're not giving you deference. For no reason. I'm wondering, like I'm just trying to think like w it wouldn't be be like oh but that means we didn't need him to do the dad stuff around the house we still needed that you know what I mean so I'm just wondering if it's like does it change the way we try to find a solution if we're kind of identifying the problem a little differently right

0:47:01 Tom: Well I I think think that is an absolutely essential and probably correlative problem. I would agree with that, like entirely. I think Part of that embedded archetype that is toxic and problematic and that we are socially working on throwing away right now involves deference, right? And it has always involved deference. And there's no getting that back, right. I think that's over and that should be over because that was always a horror show. And the faster that becomes over, the better society will be overall.

0:47:31 Eli: I'll make a little deference. Just a little.

0:47:33 Tom: So but so I and I agree that like a lot of the backlash comes from, hey, I don't get the unearned privileges. I think that's where a lot. A lot of backlash comes. From.

0:47:37 Eli: Maybe you take out your headphone and look at my coding project. I don't know if you don't care, but just a little bit of difference. It doesn't need to be like a

0:47:47 Tom: So I just want to acknowledge that I agree. That like that unearn.

0:47:50 Eli: Sad movie. You could just build a whole Linux computer.

0:47:55 Tom: I do agree that that that unearne privilege is is like foundational.

0:47:59 Eli: Hey, everybody, you can't hear me for the rest of this episode, and it's because I mumbled like that, and Lydia cut all of it for Anna's sake.

0:48:06 Tom: So I just want to agree with that. I think that's kind of like they're correlative issues. Right. So but I think honestly, like I think if you could model a version for young people, particularly who are doing that work of identity creation, if you don't know, archetypal through lines without deference. I think we'd get at least one step forward. I don' think it would solve everything, but I think it will be useful, I guess.

0:48:10 Thomas: Possibly

0:48:36 Tom: Hey,

0:48:36 Thomas: Let me show this at you I actually think men are more valid like the masculine traits the thing like Like in my example, my dad, if you had a dude like take Tom, for example, who's good at like pretty much all the stereotypical man stuff except sports or whatever, you know. No, but no, if you think of a hypothetical dude who's good at some

0:48:55 Eli: And fucking.

0:48:57 Tom: You have no complaints. What are you talking about?

0:48:59 Eli: That's true. Well, but for women, I'm saying for women. Obviously, men love it. Toss us around.

0:49:02 Thomas: Knows his way

0:49:04 Tom: All right. I'll grant that. Yeah, I'll Grant that.

0:49:04 Thomas: Around a dude, but yeah, no,

0:49:06 Tom: Jesus.

0:49:07 Thomas: But if I think nowadays, I think nowadays the, the typical male stuff is actually even more valued.

0:49:07 Eli: The women hate it.

0:49:13 Tom: My Google reviews are fine.

0:49:15 Eli: Yeah.

0:49:16 Thomas: If you, a guy, hypothetically, just imagine all this, a guy who's like, oh, that guy, he's really good. He's super handy he's pretty strong and he's not a piece of shit like that's even more valued now like that'S the thing so I think it's a different thing like that we need to get men to realize sucks.

0:49:27 Tom: That dude writes his own ticket. Yeah. Here's the thing. Yeah?

0:49:36 Eli: Someone living that example, Because right? I'm nothing. But I'm also not shit. Hey, here's a cool thing. I'm not shitty now. Right. I've not even I'mnot even permanently not shitty. I stopped being shitty. And everyone's like, you should have a podcast about healthy masculinity. Your podcast is so great. You're such a great example. I'll listen to it and give you a dollar a week over at Patreon .com. Right?

0:50:01 Tom: Yeah, it is.

0:50:02 Eli: Like the bar is on the fucking floor.

0:50:06 Tom: The thing, Thomas. I think that you're 100 % right, but I think the problem is we don't have a strong social narrative that says exactly that. And I think, that's kind of what I'm saying when I talk about an archetype. So an archetyp for me, and maybe I'm using the word wrong, but it's a broadly accepted social story.

0:50:24 Eli: Thinks it's the people who build buildings.

0:50:30 Tom: And I think that's the thing that's missing. I really do. I think bad actors, guys primarily who are trying to capitalize financially, are responsible for breaking the narrative. But I think because that social narrative has been at least partially deconstructed, people think wrongly that by being... I'm a fairly traditionally masculine person, as you pointed out. And it has not been... Like, I don't think I'm a tough sell like out in the, out in

0:51:01 Thomas: Just waiting for you to go back on the market. Don't tell Haley.

0:51:04 Eli: Let's get that thong ring going on, baby. Tailing.

0:51:07 Thomas: Yeah no I think we agree. I think I think the part I think think the part that's such a tough sell from my angle which is bad is the truth is honestly it's just like you need like feminism like it's just they need the education of what's actually going on because imagine in again I think I think using the microcosm of my dad is such a good example because I think the narcissism of my dat is so analogous and it really is like the same problem in a way to to men I mean it's like if my dad one day if we were like all right no more more deference for you just being mad like when you're just like mad for no reason we're not all gonna fucking tiptoe around it because you're scary like it's just like no he thing he would do is be like I guess I'm not appreciated around here I guess I won't do the fuck you know like oh I do all the whatever like whatever the fucking manually work that he did which was barely any but assume he did some he'd be like oh no more like that's the first thing because that's the human thing to do humans can't be like am I a piece of shit like that never happens me and eli are like the two people who did that you know it's

0:51:09 Eli: Let us fuck your husband. Yeah,

0:52:15 Thomas: Like pretty much everyone else is like they just don't they don't appreciate men they don' appreciate the thing

0:52:21 Eli: Be fair, a lot of people told me I was a piece of shit before I asked. Thomas, I think, came to it raw, dog. I had several interventions where I was like, you're all wrong and sitting in a circle. Do you understand? It's crazy. All right, gentlemen, before we go, I'm having an edging party tonight, but you can't come.

0:52:57 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email thedads at DearOldDads.com or better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle and the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues, LLC, copyright 2022, all rights reserved.

0:53:38 Tom: And plays fuck binkies fuck everything else is just trash yes

0:53:43 Eli: Oh, sorry, Tom, you're not going to identify with this at all, please forgive me. You

0:53:47 Thomas: My sperm every day.

0:53:49 Tom: Cock and ball torture over here in the Curry House. It's

0:53:52 Thomas: Am I a piece of shit like