WTW144: The Reactions to AOC's Comment Show Why We Should Just Not

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:03 Clip: What's so scary about the woke mob? How often you just don't see them coming. Anywhere you see diversity, equity, and inclusion, you see Marxism and you see woke principles being pushed. Wokeness is a virus more dangerous than any pandemic hands down. The woke monster is here and it's coming for everything. Instead of go-go boots, the seductress green M&M will now wear sneakers.

0:00:42 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Where There's Woke. I'm Thomas. That over there is Lydia. How you doing?

0:00:46 Lydia: Oh, I'm doing okay.

0:00:47 Thomas: You say that, but you're so confused by our episode numbering. This is Woke 1 -2.

0:00:51 Lydia: I was one, two, as in the number, or also, yeah, it's, oh boy.

0:00:55 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, Woke1, T -O -O. Because we did Woke 2, and then we did an episode called Woke One after that, which was that killed Lydia, and

0:01:05 Lydia: Which Thomas titled in our file sharing system, woke one, too.

0:01:07 Thomas: Woke one. No, this one's Woken 1 - 2. The last one I did Woken one. This one that just now, now it's woke one too, because it's the second one on woke one being crazy. I think it makes perfect sense. You all got that? Yeah.

0:01:14 Lydia: Oh right, it was woke two, then it was a woke one. Now it's woke, oh God.

0:01:22 Lydia: Alright, apologies everyone if you end up getting an episode you've already gotten instead of this one. Because I opened up the wrong file and sent it out just kidding

0:01:31 Thomas: There's so much to talk about. I think we've decided it's one of those things, and again, forgive us, there's millions of things when it comes to the topic of all of woke one, you know, like, and whether it was crazy, as we said last time. I really want to talk about the Thanksgiving thing because I think it's so funny, but I think that's more of like a bonus flavor. So I think I'm going to say, I know I teased that last time, so yeah, that stuffing, that seasoning is some bonus pie for us. I know I teased out last time so I just wanted to say that real quick. I think more of a bonus thing. I do think it is important though because it is sort of my thesis statement here and let me know if you agree or disagree that I think like to give the overall point of this for me is woke one was not crazy. Although of course you can find crazy tweets and you can buy crazy things. It's always true. I think you can do that for the right as well. I don't know. I haven't checked.

0:01:41 Lydia: Tastes like a bonus

0:02:23 Thomas: Have you been, I don't, I've never checked. Is there anything that the right says that, yeah, man, I have never thought about that before. Is there anything they've ever said?

0:02:26 Lydia: Yeah that they're insane about yeah yeah

0:02:31 Thomas: That's like, like, you know, worthy of criticism or like, or even downright crazy. We'll have to see. I don't know. Someone should look into that. But if they do, I think that it is too weak and it's also wrong. And it's bad to run away from it in the way that people are maybe starting to, you know, there was some nuance to the AOC thing. I don't think it was like the worst thing in the world. I think there are people who are trying to say like, it was totally misconstrued because she was quoting someone else. And it's like, no, it's like, if you quote someone else to say the thing that you're saying, that's not, I think people are trying to find a quick way to just have it not be what she said. You know what I mean?

0:02:34 Lydia: Huh curious curious yeah

0:03:08 Thomas: And it's like, is it a little nuanced? I don't think she was totally throwing it under the bus, but she endorses that view because she also, that refers to a tweet that she's like retweeted or not. It might be a blue sky, whatever that person she's chummy with. And she endorses that sentiment Like woke one was crazy. I think the people who are trying to just wave it off like it was a misquote or whatever, or it was misunderstood. That's not right.

0:03:32 Lydia: But alternatively I also see headlines on the other side where like this is just an example of a youtube headline lefty's losing it aoc admits the woke are crazy in quotes and it's like that's That's not what she said at all. Yeah.

0:03:40 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, also not true. Yeah so I'll try to finish up my little spiel here but I would encourage AOC and anyone just broadly us like wokies not to run away or apologize for it but I do think it's definitely true that like we do have to deal with the fact that there is this bullshit consensus that woke went too far and blah blah blah. Blah, blah. So I do think like there's nothing wrong with kind of softening the approach a little.

0:04:07 Thomas: But my contention and I will say this in the Thanksgiving bonus is that I think we can do that in a more maybe a more positive way that also acknowledges like, hey, actually, there is fucked up history to things. And like to the extent my feeling and this is just one person's opinion, one wokey's opinion, wokey to wokey, I think we could do a lot more good in general by trying to maintain a positivity and a non -lecturing frame while still having the same message. Like there's tone police that really what they're saying is just shut the fuck up and they don't want you to talk. I'm not saying that, but I am saying, I'm very much not saying that because this is messages that, these are messages that I believe in. Like I think people, I think Americans just do not know the history and the context of so much of our own shit, like so much Of it. And what I would try to do, you know, in dealings and online and in person is like, try to take a more positive learning approach to it, rather than a than a scolding approach. And I think people mostly do that in real life. I think this is kind of an online phenomenon, mainly unless

0:05:15 Thomas: It's unless it'S like a media debate where they're trying to be, you know, contentious. But so that's my overall thing. And I think it saves kind of everything. I think it preserves the fact that these points were correct and are correct. You can kind of rhetorically soften slightly, which is sort of, I think, what AOC is mostly doing. I don't like anyone saying Woke One is crazy. I think that's bad. I thinkthat plays into something that just wasn't true. And I think we can talk more about that. But that's my overall contention on that. And what do you think? What's your goal with going through all this stuff?

0:05:45 Lydia: I think I want to just stay grounded in reality. Like, I think that's kind of the biggest thing for me is it's really easy. And she'll be called out in some of this from some of the reaction pieces on the other side about like retconning and, and I don't, I don' t want the movement or the vast majority of people to feel like Like they have to do that in order to be taken seriously or in order to keep making progress, like to kind of retcon or wave away, you know, the things that happened in quote woke one, right? I think we can engage in honest discussion about the things that went well, the things that might not have gone well, even if like the underlying values are still our values, like I think we can still be honest about it. And so that's really where my position is, is I just want us to stay connected to the underlying values be honest about these conversations and keep moving forward towards the progress that I think we all want to see

0:06:07 Thomas: To do what? Sorry. Sure. Oh, that's where I think I should mention. We had, again, too much to talk about. So I'm actually going to do one of these as an SIO. So if you would like to hear about why defund the police after the last episode, I did more of a deep dive on that because it was just bothering me. And I don't know if I've come up with the best title yet for, you know, like attention grabbing purposes, but something along the lines of defund, the police is a hoax or defund the police. Like I'm trying to think I want to phrase it in the right way because I do believe in the principles of defun the police, but I want a signal that the entire controversy Maybe that's the way to say it. The controversy around defund the police is fake.

0:07:19 Thomas: It's not a real thing. Yeah, it's manufactured. I'm not saying it didn't exist. It did exist, just like other propaganda exists, but it's not real. It's not based on reality. It's based on propaganda. As always, it's based on a completely skewed view of our country and our landscape and the ideas and the people and everything. And when I look into the details of it, and you should check out Serious Inquiries Only if you want to hear this one, when I looked into the details, it was even worse than I thought in terms of how disproportionately the outrage over Defund the Police was relative to what what actually happened, to what people actually said, and to what, if you were to try to do a comparison to the right, like it is crazy how stupid it seems in retrospect. So that'll be on Serious Inquiries only. But today we're going to talk about some reaction pieces. You've got all kinds, right?

0:07:18 Lydia: Manufactured yeah right yeah all kinds I got some stuff on the left I have some I don't know highbrow sort of positions that people are taking I have a piece from someone who said woke one ruined my life

0:08:19 Thomas: Mid -brow. Yeah. Low brow to mid, all brows. We've got the 90s brows too. Two. We got 90s. Yeah.

0:08:22 Lydia: All sorts of brows yeah

0:08:28 Thomas: I was trying to think what's the most like heavy brow. Yeah, all the way from 90s eyebrows, which were a crime against humanity that we still haven't. I don't think people have properly like been recompensed for that. Two, what's like the biggest eyebrow reference that there could be?

0:08:29 Lydia: Unibrows over plucked yeah

0:08:45 Thomas: There's that basketball player with the famous unibrow. That's good.

0:08:44 Lydia: Oh what's his name oh uh -huh uh -uh couldn't tell you his name the other person I was gonna say is uh schitt's creek american pie yeah what's his

0:08:53 Thomas: Oh, he's got he's Gotts. Here's the thing. He's got very thick. That's what's his name? Son, right? It's the Oh, you're thinking the dad.

0:08:56 Lydia: Name what's name's dad yeah

0:08:59 Thomas: I'm saying both of them. But yeah, no, you're right. The dad is a better example because they're not as well kept or whatever. Kept? Well kept. Unkempt. Well kept anyway. Yeah. Some asshole. Yeah, so anyway, all ranges of highbrow, lowbrow midbrow everything.

0:09:03 Lydia: Yeah exactly unkempt well kept who made that up all right right. Change everything. We have to talk about this now.

0:09:19 Thomas: So I'm excited. Why don't we take our first break? Hey please support the show patreon.com/wherethereswoke that's where you can get a thanksgiving bonus and you can hear about how fucking insane it is that we have a holiday but not like I'm not trying to banish thanksgiving because it's a different thing now which is the point uh but the original holiday is fucking insane and the history is even worse than I remembered as always or it's by the way way worse than I ever learned because we don't teach anyone anything in this country so uh that's Where You Can Find That Bonus Thanksgiving Bonus Much Mirth and Cheer and good cheer and patreon.com/wherethereswoke and you can avoid these stupid ads that are about to play right now all right

0:10:00 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:10:02 Lydia: I'm going to start off with something light.

0:10:04 Thomas: Start us off where are we gonna what are we going to look at where is it on the eyebrow scale that's the only way I'll understand good eyebrows

0:10:06 Lydia: These are good eyebrows. These aren't. Yeah, it's Brett Cooper. You know, not a good person, but good eyebrows, I'll give her that. Formerly with Daily Wire.

0:10:13 Thomas: Okay oh so you ruined my whole thing I wanted to understand where the piece is in the eyebrow skill not her personal eyebrows. She does have good eyebrows. Yeah. Okay. So let it be said, she has good eyebrows, okay. But are

0:10:20 Lydia: And oh, sorry, I really respect eyebrows. So I thought you actually wanted to know. No. Okay. I will say this is pretty silly. This is pretty 90s. This is pretty like not a really interesting analysis. But I think this is something that a lot of people on the right do whenever AOC comes up. So I want to start here, just so we can kind of get the tone that existed in a lot of these spaces as well.

0:10:35 Thomas: We in the nineties? This is nineties eyebrows.

0:10:50 Clip: She apparently pretended to have dementia and flippantly said that Woke One, the first iteration of wokeness, was crazy. Just watch. The abolished prisons, abolished police, which is also positions that have been taken by a lot of the progressive candidates who have won how do you how do you get around that yeah not positions that are supported by right I mean I think that a lot these races even right now they'll have a tendency to be nationalized yeah but these races ultimately are local and all politics are local my understanding is that is is that Francesca Hong has made made clear her present stances to her electorate. And I have a local city councilman that has this saying, woke one was crazy.

0:10:53 Thomas: Why are you yelling at me? Yeah. Not really.

0:11:51 Clip: That woman, she is moved on from that. I went back and AOC's Twitter pulled out One of my favorites was back in, I think it was 2021, when she said, yes, men and trans women can menstruate. Oh, that was so crazy.

0:12:03 Thomas: Yeah, does that have something to do with prisons or?

0:12:05 Clip: Like AOC, you helped usher in woke one. Normal everyday people's lives. You called your political opponents from your New York City perch with your really big obnoxious megaphone You made woke one, so I just think that we should all keep that in mind and maybe also, this is important, maybe also take some of her own words to heart. Because back in 2020, when she was stoking the flames of woke one, which was just so crazy, she tweeted this. Is anyone archiving these Trump sycophants when they try to downplay or deny I foresee decent probability of many deleted tweets, LOL at the party of personal responsibility, being upset at the idea of being responsible for their behavior over the last four years. Oh AOC, as you downplay your involvement in the radicalization of America over the last decade I am so glad that we have all of your archive tweets to look back on woke

0:12:59 Lydia: Crazy.

0:13:03 Thomas: My God. That was unpleasant. Yeah.

0:13:04 Lydia: Yeah, I had to start with that because it's whenever AOC is brought up, there are a lot lot of people on the right that really go into this like cartoonish recreation of her with you know her smile and her laugh like they really

0:13:13 Thomas: Is that what's happening? Or is Brett Cooper like this? Okay.

0:13:19 Lydia: I think she she's a very like mocking type of personality

0:13:22 Thomas: I was going to say within three seconds, like, oh my God, I've never been so offended by the misogyny of a woman. Like right away, I was like, geez, cool it, dude.

0:13:28 Lydia: Yeah yeah I know it's crazy I mean yeah she she was doing numbers for daily wire they weren't able to figure out their contract she's doing perfectly fine over at youtube just being solo and playing into probably a lot of these things even more so now that she's independent potentially. I don't know. But it is interesting because, yeah, she calls out this idea that like AOC mentioning that people in the Trump administration or right wing politicians and stuff going back and deleting tweets, which they did. They were doing that kind of stuff.

0:13:59 Thomas: They probably undeleted him. Like I wanted to get reelected.

0:14:02 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. They're like, OK, cool. Bring those back. But she calls out this is like AOC is going to be doing that. And there's no indication that she's doing that she's been able to access all of these things anyway. Like, yeah。 So it's silly.

0:14:11 Thomas: She knows she can't do that. That's not gonna happen I think this shows a lot right away for one that's I know I get yelly but I don't sound like that do I god that was so there's something about like like you say I don't know if she takes on the caricature of like what the right thinks a woman is or something is she doing this all the time or if that's her shtick all the timE then I would feel bad like I donT want to like do a sexist attack on her but it does feel like she's doing a bit to attack AOC, I think, but I'm not willing to watch enough Brett Cooper to know. So I'm just going to leave it there. Yeah.

0:14:23 Lydia: No, I don'T don't think so yeah I I think it's well I don't want to say specifically to aoc but specific to certain people that she can get like this because like like recently she actually sat down with patagonia the drag queen and they had like a conversation and she wasn't mocking I mean they were person to person right face to face having a conversation and she was not engaging in mocking behavior there so I yeah I don t know true

0:15:01 Thomas: What's that? Oh yeah. Right. Yeah, I mean, these people don't often do it to people's faces, but yeah, it's a whole different thing. But it reminds me of the thing, one of my favorite observations I made about our least favorite person, Bill Maher, he's literally the biggest P word in the world. And I feel like we should use that word on him because it's like he uses it for, but no, he's the biggest, we'll say pansy in the world because he thinks he's this tough guy. But then in that episode we did with, um, it was him and Neil deGrasse Tyson, or it was human somebody. And they were talking about Neil degrasse Tyson. I can't remember which, but he does the thing where he has to start to play out because he can't even like, this is like with my dad too. These people get so into their fucking ideology that they literally can't even entertain counter arguments. It could be that with this Brett Cooper, where they turn into like an insane person because, and you're the one, and you'RE probably the ones who think, and the bathroom, and they're like, and YOU'RE just like, dude, Jesus Christ, you

0:16:12 Thomas: Know? And Bill Maher does that, and he has to talk out, he stops, I noticed, he can't talk to people when there might be that conflict, because in his own mind, he's so fucking right and the other side is so ridiculous that even if he gets a hint of somebody who's like his friend is like on that different side he turns into a fucking well he's always a moron but he turns in to one of those like discombobulating robots from a cartoon like that got water splashed on it you know it's like that like it's so interesting so it could be that anyway I think this also displayed another thing that's happening that's a reason why even if you know there may be all kinds of wokies listening you know there maybe non -wokies listening I don't know. But there may be wokies who are like me, who really don't think there's anything to apologize for through the whole woke one era, other than obviously, as I always say, some crazy people on Twitter, whatever. Or there are people, and I think this is in good faith. There are people who are wokies. I'd consider them wokies, who do have the opinion of like, well, yeah, it did go too far and it hurt the movement because we need, you know, that kind of thing.

0:16:56 Lydia: Wrote some words.

0:17:11 Thomas: And that's kind of who my audience is mainly with this, because when I say that, it's because like, that's who I'm trying to convince.

0:17:11 Lydia: Yeah yeah yeah. Right.

0:17:17 Thomas: Like I'm trying to move those people to like, actually, we don't need to apologize for it because most of the bad stuff is one -off stuff that the propaganda machine made more popular than it is. But point is another reason why you shouldn't give fuel to the other side of this, you know, why you wouldn't give into the, like, even if you're trying to like do the fine common ground thing, oh, we can both embrace and admit that woke one was a little little crazy listen to her example her example was she starts off trying to front load it with abolishing prisons and abolishing police because that's the one that the most normies will be like well that's insane you can't do that where will we put the bad guys so you can do that use that to start to get everybody in hook them in and then what does she reference as the crazy thing that aoc said that both women and trans men can menstruate which is just true like which is literally a fact she would never delete that tweet because it's just a fact there's nothing nothing about woke one erases that fact that's just a complete fact

0:18:06 Lydia: Just biologically. Yeah unless they've gone through menopause.

0:18:21 Thomas: Can you know can menstruate it's a response to like the conservative idea that menstruation equals woman or whatever it's like well actually there's there's exceptions to that both directions you know it's not just trans people who should have rights and you should acknowledge their humanity and they can menstruat if they're trans men it's also So cis women, like there's many cis women who aren't menstruated, can't menstruate. Yeah. It's like, are they not women? Is that they don't get to count as women anymore? It's ridiculous. So this would be my argument for why, like, don't give into this bullshit at all, because this is the true goal of it. The goal of It is not to say what might be the goal between you and I, like all there's some criticisms here. The goal is to just throw out all of social progress throughout all of this stuff under her a vague idea that woke one was too crazy and here's my examples I'll say out loud mostly are the ones that everyone will agree with and then what I really mean is like and also women can still vote it's like yeah fucking jesus you know like they they want to take it all out

0:18:39 Lydia: Various disorders or yeah. Yeah okay. Next.

0:19:22 Thomas: And then I'm sorry I also have to say the part where she's like they always do this too oh she's calling people nazis from her new york apartment or whatever that's like did the nazis live in new you, like, what, what is the connection? Like they think they're making some hypocrisy point or something. Like, what does

0:19:34 Lydia: Just trying to emphasize that she is, I don't know, in a liberal city or or trying to imply she has money, which also doesn't make any sense because plenty of people in New York can't afford anything either. So, yeah.

0:19:43 Thomas: I, I, what Does that mean? What does it, how does that relate? Does not at all. There's no connection to it other than here's a thing that I also don't like or something, which is so funny rhetorically. Yeah. It'd be like, just make it, call people Nazis from a New York poll. You privilege non -Nazi or something like the structure of it is like, Like, oh, you're calling out people on top of your throne of not being a Nazi or something. I don't know.

0:19:56 Lydia: Yeah. SEO. Yeah, yeah, yeah Also, the people, the Nazis marching in New York probably also live in New York and likely apartments, you know, so they're all the same.

0:20:16 Thomas: Yeah, there's Nazis everywhere. That's just funny. Like, that's more of that, like, robot got water thrown on it. Where they're just like, New York bartender. You know, it's stupid.

0:20:27 Lydia: And now we're going to pivot over to Reason, which likes to, you know, parade as this, what's it called? Just kind of this, yeah, reasonable. No, just like, I got a good head on my shoulders, you know, kind of publication. So this is Reason .com, but this is an opinion piece by Robbie if you ever have watched The Hill, which also is another thing that comes out where you think it should be more reasoned than like actually reasoned then it is, but it's pretty conservative because of this guy. And I want to just highlight a couple pieces from this that he wrote. He titled this Don't Let AOC Retcon Her Starring Role in Woke One. And it starts with Representative Alexandria Ocasio -Cortez raised eyebrows this weekend. I just had to say that since we're talking about

0:20:35 Thomas: Reasonable. Yeah.

0:21:10 Lydia: Eyebrows. When she merely shrugged off her previous enthusiasm for electorally toxic far left cultural positions and then he quotes from the piece that we've emphasized here then continues man okay yes great

0:21:22 Thomas: By the way, let it be said, AOC, fantastic eyebrows. She might have the best eyebrows.

0:21:25 Lydia: Eyebrows they're very very nicely shaped

0:21:28 Thomas: Full -bodied and yet neat. Meet you know just I have we ever said on the show that we want to marry her I think we I think we I don't think we covered that we covered yeah yeah

0:21:30 Lydia: Yes yes exactly expressive just in case we want to marry her so he goes on that the attitude that she portrayed in this clip is far too blasé while it's encouraging that so many progressives have backed away from some though by no means all of their really terrible ideas no one should should be so naive as to accept these conversions at face value. Moreover, it's quite deflective of them to act as if Woke One was something bad that just sort of happened, like a hurricane or an earthquake, and they passively accepted it because what else could they do? He goes on to cite an example here about how she is part of the problem, right? Like, and she's trying to retcon her involvement here, and he gives this example. In 2019, AOC posted a video criticizing New Yorkers who wanted to grow cauliflower instead of yucca in their community gardens as complicit in colonization.

0:22:26 Lydia: And then neither cauliflower nor yuccas is indigenous to New York. And I, yes, it's bullshit.

0:22:21 Thomas: Cauliflowerization I'm gonna go and guess this is bullshit no way

0:22:37 Lydia: He linked to the video. It's pretty long, so I don't think we'll play it here. Do you want to? I mean, basically it's her talking and she's talking about, again, again, emphasis on community gardens. And she is saying that people in a community are going to be more likely to participate in their community garden if they feel connected to what is being grown. So the idea of they're not going to know how to potentially cook cauliflower, how to grow cauliflower, like it's not part. Yeah, it's a very white people thing. Yeah.

0:22:40 Thomas: Well I don' know what is it is it her talking or also who is like connected to cauliflower who feels a great spiritual connection to call like my ancestors also enjoyed this tasteless fucking

0:23:19 Lydia: So she's basically saying when you grow things that you're cooking, that you'RE familiar with, that tie to your identity and your heritage, you're more likely to feel connected to your community and the garden spaces and the work that we're trying to do there. And also, he says that criticizing New Yorkers who wanted to grow cauliflower, there were not New Yorker's who stood out with signs saying, give me cauliflower or give me death. That was not.

0:23:42 Thomas: Garbage I'm surprised because usually they form all of their opinions in opposition to one thing that aoc probably said that was directed at like 14

0:23:53 Lydia: This was literally a hypothetical vegetable that she named during

0:23:57 Thomas: People this is how insane these people

0:23:57 Lydia: Her video. She was like, she's like, for example, maybe like, I don't know, cauliflower. That's literally what she said in the video .She just came up with an idea. It was not based on a real life example of New Yorkers knocking on her door and saying, hey, no one's letting me grow my cauliflower in the community garden.

0:24:14 Lydia: That is not happening. So that's just a blatant, blatant lie here.

0:24:14 Thomas: Are god so who did the work of this nonsense was it this author or was he referencing something?

0:24:23 Lydia: This author. Yep.

0:24:24 Thomas: Okay, so this man baby is like, she came for the cauliflower. That's why you don't get to have any anymore.

0:24:31 Lydia: He goes into the Latinx debate and sort of the issues there, which I mean, there is a debate there from my understanding anyway. There's a I think that's correct.

0:24:39 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think Latinos like Latinx. And so, okay, I know it's like, or maybe somebody won't and who cares?

0:24:46 Lydia: But also, I don't know if it's that all Latinos don't like Latinx.

0:24:50 Thomas: Nobody cares as much about these issues as the MAGA fucking reactionaries. I mean, I've never come across, I've never in my life, in my wokey ass existence from college, when I started encountering the woke to now have had anyone tell me I need to use Latinx ever, not even mention it ever, ever. Like, I'm, it's not like a thing that comes up a ton, but it happened like it, you know, I say Latino people usually had Latinos because that's what, or if it's just women, I guess, Latinas to try to do the right, like Spanish language thing. But like, it's just not a big deal. And if, and if I'm wrong, someone might be like, Oh, Hey, you said the wrong thing. I'll be like.

0:25:30 Thomas: Oh, okay. Thanks. It's not a big deal now.

0:25:33 Lydia: Exactly. It's not a big deal. And it's something where we can kind of go into those conversations with an understanding that perhaps some people prefer certain terminology, other people prefer other terminology, and just trying to be, you know, mindful of that and put our best foot forward. But it's never something that's actually like blown up to be a thing.

0:25:53 Thomas: The it's the entire thing is these fragile little babies. That's the reactionary mindset is like, they do this thing where if they're ever corrected on anything, or it's not, they're not even honestly, that never happens. They witness maybe somebody else saying something and like, or they witnessed someone giving an opinion. Like you should actually use Latinx because if you don't, you're calling, who knows what it is, something they found on Twitter that's inconsequential. And then they like take on this whole thing where like, that means they're evil because they would have said Latino. And so really these people are calling him evil. And so therefore like, oh my God, how could you call me evil? They go through this whole like mental process. It renders them so angry and frothing and like insane that like, Like that's that's the whole thing. That's the whole game right there.

0:26:39 Lydia: Mm hmm, I'm gonna skip a bunch in his piece, where he just kind of goes off about the history of woke.

0:26:44 Thomas: So I'm sorry. So Reason .com, the producer of Skeptic Magazine, I think we're saying like those whole people. They didn't do what you did and like click on the link and see, oh, wait, this is bullshit. Wow. They provided it.

0:26:51 Lydia: I know. Yeah, they have the link in here. So you know, they're citing like, here's our source for it. Okay, then click it and see if it's actually saying what Robbie is saying it's saying and it doesn't.

0:27:04 Thomas: God. That's how stupid these people, that's how blinded by their bullshit they are.

0:27:09 Lydia: Yeah but towards the end he says it's certainly fair to conclude that the cultural pendulum has swung back the other way. And note that left -wing media figures, activist students, and social media mobs no longer have nearly as much power to enforce orthodoxy and punish dissenters. Democratic politicians largely attribute their reticence to challenge such forces as one of the reasons they are now thoroughly out of power. But much like Odysseus referring to his own time period as, quote, our age of bronze, and Christopher Nolan's very successful, this is all SEO, he just wants it to come up if people are searching Odyssey. Though not universally appreciated adaptation, there's something a bit too meta about calling it Woke One and saying, well, that's all over now and we'd never do it again. Trust us. At best, AOC's newfound ambivalence for wokeness is a profoundly weak choice and one that she would clearly eagerly jettison if the pendulum swung back in that direction.

0:27:58 Lydia: And I don't think there's any indication anyway in that clip that she is saying, like, every tenet of, you know, woke one, which other people, like disagree of what what is part of woke one. It's clearly not in that click. And I think it's more about tactics, perhaps, but that would be it. So.

0:27:59 Thomas: I hope so. No. Absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what made this so insane too. And I even picked it up on the ninth time. I don't know if I said this at the time, but the guy says like abolishing prisons and defunding police. Those are some of the views that many of the progressive candidates who are winning have. Is that true? Like honest to God, like first off, as always be more specific. Do you mean at one time they might've tweeted something like that? Do you mean it's part of their campaign pain or their agenda and who, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know who those people are. So that's, that's another place where, again, far be it for me to give the most beautiful, amazing person with the best eyebrows and the smartest brain, any tips. But I really do think you could be like, Oh, what do you, who, who said, who? Who holds that view? Who, who says abolish prisons? Cause like, that'S a pretty, that'Ts a pretty far out there view.

0:29:11 Thomas: You know, like, I DON'T, I Don'T know that I would agree with abolishing prisons short of like making a a lot of progress first, you know, you'd have to do a lot of stuff before that. I would be for, unless, I'd haveto see the specifics but like, yeah.

0:29:22 Lydia: I think a lot of people that might say that, like you look for a like catchphrase kind of thing that you can say, but it doesn't necessarily mean like there is no place for consequence. Yeah.

0:29:29 Thomas: Abolitionists, yeah, day one let all the child rapists out, like that's not what people

0:29:36 Lydia: It might mean that they prefer a style more similar to like, you know, Norway and how people base consequences there and pay their time there and what that looks like, not the prison system that we have now.

0:29:47 Thomas: Mean yeah, and I'll be honest, for my taste if that is what people means, I actually don't think they should say abolish prisons, not because it's scary, I think if people did believe in abolish prison, Ithink people, everyone should say what they believe, I firmly believe people should just say whatthey believe but if yeah but if the whole like we've talked about abolition on away and

0:30:01 Lydia: Even if it's not pithy.

0:30:07 Thomas: I I definitely like the set of ideas that is around that label like it seems like I'm all for it but I don't know like there's no way anyone means let all the murderers and rapists out tomorrow like there no way everyone means that and if that's what everyone thinks it means or most people think it means when you say abolish prisons then that's a good sign that like okay maybe that's not the a term to use. And I don't mean that again. I don'T mean that in a tone policing way. If that is what you mean, then sure.

0:30:33 Thomas: Like if they literally mean, yes, I mean, let all the rapists and murderers out on day one. Okay. That's, I have no problem with you using that terminology. It's more like if you don't actually mean that, and this is being misunderstood, I guess I don' t, I don''t understand, but this is me wading into a topic that I know has eons more scholarship than I have ever given it thought. AndI'm sure there's a good reason for it. Andi'm sure there's something that makes sense, but I guess just from a marketing perspective, but like that never really gets touched on in anything like this. And I would, you know, I would encourage someone if they ever had a question asked like that of, Oh, who, who thinks abolishing prisons? What do they mean by that?

0:31:09 Thomas: And who, and are they, do they have a plan to do that? Did they run on that?

0:31:09 Lydia: And what would that plan even look like when we're talking about a democracy right like like a single person

0:31:16 Thomas: What is, yeah. Especially if they're like a Senate candidate, it literally is, there isn't that like there's, yes, there's some federal prisons, but like the prisons that we think of are all state prisons. That's the other thing that we always say it gets lost. The death of fucking nuance, you know, is just blending all this shit together. Oh, you're a house rep and you're saying I'm in favor of like defunding the police. You're never going to have any effect on that. It's not going to matter. And so it's like, why, why does the media spend so much time trying to talk to you about that? Could it be because, and I'm not saying this is necessarily a big conspiracy of the media, but I do think I actually go back and forth. I do Think it's more that the the media chases views and the reactionary people provide the views.

0:32:02 Lydia: Yep it feeds on itself

0:32:02 Thomas: And so the media necessarily, yeah, I think it's less an overt thing than more like a, well, when we, when we have this person on and we just like that fucking interview, I can't stop thinking about that interview where Caitlin Collins asked Francesca Hong a hundred questions about what other people thought about her and to become a pundit. And it's like, I think It's because that's what gets the clicks.

0:32:22 Thomas: I don't think anyone, well, I shouldn't say anyone. I think it's more about that than a top down, like, hey, here's the deal. We need to do this. But I do think there is some amount of that top down stuff when it comes to Bezos. Like we've seen that and we've seeing plenty of media outlets where that's true. But yeah, push back on those things.

0:32:37 Lydia: And then I would also chime in just to say that even if you are like running for governor and your position is abolish prisons, that also is something that you can't just do. And we see that a little bit in California, not that Newsom is abolished prisons. People will say he is because he has closed a couple of prisons, but that has been more related to mandated prison overcrowding reduction that we've been legally required to do, that we have been struggling to do. They have made efforts with that. And then now it's a budget question, right? Like, OK, now we have all these prisons. We're operating at whatever capacity. Does that make sense? Can we consolidate? And he said, yes, we can. And the legislature agreed with him and they moved forward to close a small number of prisons in sort

0:32:49 Thomas: How horrible they are. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

0:33:22 Lydia: Of more remote areas. But California still has a very large prison system. Yeah.

0:33:27 Thomas: Yeah. We're not running out of prisons here. It's got to be one of the biggest in the country, right? If not the biggest. Probably is.

0:33:33 Lydia: Yeah, it's quite large. It used to be I want to say used to be like thirty five prisons plus additional private prisons and then an out of state and then we close the out of state I'm like having to go back to my CDCR days but yeah yeah how

0:33:40 Thomas: Yeah. Jesus. Yeah. So Lydia worked in the, well, I guess I did technically too, but in a different area. Yes, I didn't really know this stuff, but like, that's such a good illustration of it. You're talking about, actually, let me just Google real quick. Okay. So Texas is the most, that, that I, that's who I would have guessed is the Most. And it's got, holy shit, Texas. Wow.

0:34:03 Thomas: Is this real? Jesus, that is awful. Oh, wow.

0:34:03 Lydia: Many do they have oh wow a hundred and four

0:34:10 Thomas: Wow, only Texas sends more people to prison than California. California, this is as of 2022, so it could be changed. But like Texas has 139 ,000 prisoners. California had 97 ,000. But what's interesting is if you look at the rate, California is actually pretty low. Yeah.

0:34:27 Lydia: As compared to our population

0:34:29 Thomas: So it's it's we're actually in the lower half. We're in the bottom 20 of states. I was expecting Texas to be like number one, but they're like number six. Mississippi, number one. Hey, it's easy to guess what these states would be. Mississippi. Louisiana. Arkansas. Oklahoma. Oklahoma, Idaho, Texas, Idaho. Well, I wouldn't have guessed that to be fair. Idaho, Texas. That might be, they just have so many criminals, so many like white nationalist Nazi weirdos. Texas and Arizona. Wow. Georgia. I wouldn't have put Arizona above Georgia, but yeah, I don't know anything. It's just crazy. But the point I was going to make is we have the second highest, California has the second most prisoners. And we can assume that correlates to most prisons, if that's important. And imagine thinking, oh no, no the governor wants to merge like two prisons it's the end of the world you know what I mean like that's a sign of how not based in reality all this shit is it's reactionary is the best word for it because it's only a reaction to a thing you heard I don't know if this is literally what the term means but it's how I think of it like you don't have any fucking information you don't have any f****** context you hear hey he wants to close prisons oh my god no no no and you're like do you have any idea what that means or what the context is no you have no fucking idea you just have an opinion you have an anger and an opinion and you are ruining our

0:35:47 Thomas: Entire country neat

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0:35:52 Lydia: And then you know there's reaction pieces from other outlets that wouldn't be surprising like Like New York Post, they say Democrats haven't grown up from woke one. They've grown nuttier still.

0:36:02 Lydia: So trying to say, like, even if AOC is is letting this go, don't buy into it. You know, they've turned hard against Israel with nearly half of House Dems. Yeah.

0:36:03 Thomas: Heck yeah what are their examples do they have any good examples for us see this is why even if I see this all the time I see people on my very Facebook feed well you know defund the police was a bad slogan and so it was kind of crazy this is what's actually happening Every single fucking person who's out there saying, oh, it was crazy. Woke wasn't crazy. They then go to something like this. Trans people exist or they're going hard against Israel.

0:36:38 Thomas: They're sort of anti-genocide. And that's just wokeness. Like, fuck you.

0:36:41 Lydia: With nearly half of House Dems recently voting to cut off all aid to the Jewish state. And with Ocasio -Cortez herself calling to block funds for the Defense Department in the middle of a war because of. It's not our war. It's not supposed to be our war, right? It's not supposed to be. Yeah. Because of bizarre conspiracy theories about Israel taking control of the Pentagon.

0:36:45 Thomas: Yeah, that's not enough. Good. Good. Well, yeah it is now I guess but hey Congress is in charge of declaring war that's literally the constitutional duty of congress and this guy's like this fucking radical wants to like not provide money for a war that is undeclared that shouldn't be happening it's like that's not radical wokeness yeah and we might have depleted our entire store of weaponry which like on one hand end I'm like cool but on the other hand part of me does kind of worry like I don't know is China or Russia just gonna be like hey they're fucking Trump ruined them do you ever worry about that

0:37:14 Lydia: Yep. Yep, in which we've already spent billions and billions and billions of dollars. Yeah.

0:37:32 Lydia: Oh, yeah. Get caught with our pants down kind of thing.

0:37:34 Thomas: Yeah like I kind of sometimes we're like hey I hate us don't get me wrong I don't hate us more than I would hate Russia or China controlling us and that's a very important or pretty much any country like obviously I always believe in like countries should control themselves people should control themselves and I do sometimes worry is it too crazy I don't want to come across as crazy And I don't think China would do like a full like kinetic war, as they say. But like sometimes I worry he is really, really reduced our ability. That's the wrong word. What's going to happen is China is going to take Taiwan or whatever it is like they're going to do some, you know, something like that. They'll do something that's previously they wouldn't have done because there's enough maybe pressure internationally or something. But now they'll just totally do it. And, you know, trample over some people that don't deserve it kind of thing.

0:38:18 Lydia: Yeah the other examples that they give is leftist Dems have stopped chanting defund the police but they still want to shift funding away from conventional policing and toward empty, quote, community-based solutions.

0:38:28 Thomas: Empty community based solutions. No, they've proven time and time again, statistically, to save more lives, to cost less, and to be better in every single way.

0:38:36 Lydia: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. That they haven't backed off an inch on the craziest gender, in quotes, policies either. Don't dare question, quote trans rights. And while abolish ICE sounds like Dems have an issue with how one agency is run, what the still rising left really means is, in italics, abolish all enforcement of immigration law. They want to, quote legalize migration, meaning open borders, and then grant voting rights to everyone. This is like just a fever dream like weird thing that's happening

0:39:01 Thomas: So stupid. Yeah, these all disguise themselves as, yeah, we the reasonable are pushing back on woke. Wasn't that so crazy? Here's why it was crazy. And then they rattle off a list of MAGA fucking bullshit. And that's what they're trying to do. They're tryingto smuggle in MAGA bullshit as the default, like, right thing. That's the default, like, correct consensus view. And these crazy wokies were doing crazy stuff.

0:39:27 Lydia: And wouldn't you know it like none of that stuff is linked at all they do link their coverage about House Democrats voting to cut off aid to israel but that's pretty much it everything else is just completely unsourced and they don't have to because anyone who reads this and like thinks this is real isn't going to be clicking on sources they're not going to look for the additional pieces that corroborate this at all they're just going to fall into this they're going to absorb the propaganda and that becomes their worldview that they will then parrot to everybody in their lives yeah

0:39:58 Thomas: And this is why it needs pushback, because most people don't read beyond the title. And most people will do the math for the person and be like, yeah, woke one was a little crazy. And again, they're just thinking of whatever their, and it might be their reasonable interpretation, like whatever their interpretation of why woke one is crazy. But really what the point of all of this is, is to say woke one's crazy because woke thought trans people existed. And woke people thought Israel shouldn't do a genocide and woke, like all this woke people thought like people should be allowed to vote. You know, it's like, it's, they're just trying to smuggle that in. Yeah.

0:40:29 Lydia: We would expect the right-wing you know media outlets to react like this that makes sense what surprised me a little bit was certain and this could just be because these outlets are carrying whoever you know whoever's writing a piece and maybe like their own politics is kind of crazy. But outlets that normally like you could kind of rest on is like, oh, this tends to be more left or this tends to be at least more reasonable and stuff. Some of them are kind of picking up on this to sort of attacking AOC a bit as well and saying that she's trying to distance herself from this thing that she created. One example is the Atlantic. I know the Atlantic is problematic for a lot of reasons, but it used to, you know, the Democrats can't just laugh off woke one. Republicans have no incentive to let them forget past excesses. And this piece is just, yeah, frustrating. But I guess it's what we have come to learn the Atlantic just is now, where they close it out with this paragraph. Ideas never die, but they can go dormant. You know, it's just like this idea again, when we talked about the James Lindsay piece, right? Like this stuff is, they like to portray this as like a virus, right, that it's not actually dead. It's just been waiting and it's been evolving and it is going to come out again.

0:41:08 Thomas: Then there's, there's no more Atlantic. This one I also had on my list. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.

0:41:45 Lydia: And we understand the waves of viruses. Yeah. The unwillingness to extirpate wokeness now may result in its resurgence later.

0:41:46 Thomas: To do what, man? That's the Atlantic. Jesus Christ.

0:41:55 Lydia: This. Yeah, the silence of conventional Democrats and the ascent of the DSA could make the party's 2028 presidential primary contest resemble the 2021. Then candidates of all stripes competed to outleft one another. Yeah yeah. That's what they They say, yeah,

0:42:06 Thomas: What? Sorry. Sorry. The one that Joe Biden won.

0:42:13 Thomas: That's what, that's woke, woke commie Joe Biden. That would be horrible.

0:42:18 Lydia: Yeah. All the candidates are trying to outleft one another and didn't matter because Joe Biden won anyway. Committing themselves to positions that cause their party electoral trouble for years. Should Ocasio -Cortez become the Democratic candidate for president, she may experience that painful lesson firsthand.

0:42:31 Thomas: Well, he just cares about AOC. You know, he's just looking out for her. So I don't know why you're criticizing this one,

0:42:37 Lydia: I don't get it. Like this is not like an opinion, you know, a contributor piece, a guest piece or anything like that.

0:42:44 Thomas: Isn't it? Oh, who is it? What's yeah.

0:42:44 Lydia: This is a staff writer at The Atlantic. Idris Kahloun, I -D -R -E -E‑S -K -A -H -L -O -O‑N. And he was previously with The Economist, so keep that in mind.

0:42:54 Thomas: This is the one I read. Okay. Yeah. Cause hasn't Jenessa been showing how insane the economist is? Well, we haven't done as many of the, I think we did like one of those on SIO, but she has like five. The economist is nuts now.

0:42:57 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, that The Economist is crazy, yeah.

0:43:05 Lydia: Oh, yeah well we just get messages on Facebook all the time. And then Vox is also kind of like a questionable one too, but this is such a long piece and trying to like emphasize here, yes, really.

0:43:17 Thomas: Yeah, was this a Stead Herndon? Yeah, I have complicated feelings yeah okay

0:43:23 Lydia: This piece titled Why Progressives Are Backing Off Woke One and explaining like why this is making sense that the new plan is just going to like brush off what happened with Woke One, refocus on the present and all the policies that will actually make people's lives better. And he says, that was one of my biggest takeaways from that 2020 summer, our collective discomfort with all of these issues in the first place. Things involving race, gender, sexuality, affirmative action, religion, cancel culture. There was never a clean to America's moment, at least not the left versus right one everyone expected. The real gap was between masked America, coastal professional absolutely consumed by identity politics, and everyone else, which I think is also not a reasonable way to talk about what that was.

0:44:03 Thomas: I don't know what the hell what does that even

0:44:10 Lydia: At George Floyd's memorial in Houston and in the city where he died, there was no consensus on defunding the police, only a shared agreement about racial injustice and a deep distrust of institutions. In South Chicago, people were already skeptical that the sudden flood of corporate money into racial justice would outlast the moment, even while the checks were still being written. And so, no, I don't love the tidy language of woke one then versus woke two now. But here are a few lessons from that summer.

0:44:30 Lydia: So looking back at 2020, woke isn't dead is the first lesson saying that what has fallen out of favor, it's not wokeness. It's a way of talking. So the language that lived in mission statements and land acknowledgments or that made sweeping generalizations about a specific group, white women, cis men, you name it. David Axelrod describing Wisconsin's Francesca Hong gave it this label, a, quote, font of zany liberal faculty lounge exotica. Yes, that's the part that's gotten less popular. The vocabulary changed more than the values. I don't think that's necessarily wrong. Um,

0:44:24 Thomas: Mean sure yeah all right yeah that's fine whatever

0:45:05 Lydia: I, yeah, the left rewrote its message after 2024 is the other piece that he calls out here. Affordability. Yeah, because life has gotten progressively less affordable. So affordability is a big concern for people. Yeah.

0:45:17 Thomas: Yeah, and it's also because of you assholes like it they'll be like let's demonize the shit out of whatever we can find on the left they should all stop talking about this they should talk about something else and they're like okay affordability they fucking change their thing. Those devious wokists. It's like, they're just doing that because you keep doing your thing, man.

0:45:39 Lydia: He also asserts that Democratic voters have changed. Progressives have never had enough power to implement their most controversial ideas en masse, specifically about defunding the police. Instead, woke as a cultural phenomenon took its deepest hold in liberal and academic circles. So the corporate whiplash that followed, the rush to embrace new H .R. trainings, new D .I. policies and new vocabulary in 2020 and the quiet discarding of it a couple of years later. There's one just that the Minneapolis City Council was backtracking off defunded the police, they link that. That's it. Nope.

0:46:01 Thomas: Just can you talk? Are there sources? Are there links? For that? Yeah. Yeah. No, I got that. But like anything for the claims about like, yeah, corporate America, because that is another thing that everyone says related to this. Well, it was corporate America that started doing their DEI. And like, really? I mean, maybe there was like I do agree that there was a reaction to what was going on that was both like people getting maybe more aggressive in their wokeness or something. And then also people getting really scared for what I don't think is like great reasons. But often that's because like that's corporate America trying to protect its own money. It's weird to blame wokists for also how corporate America tries to protect its bottom line by doing stuff that it thinks will appeal to that moment that's actually kind of bullshit. You know what I mean? Like, that's also our fault somehow. The wokies aren't in control of corporate America. That's just not true. I think that's what the MAGA, that is what a lot of people think. What happens is the woke took control of these institutions. It's like, no, you know, there's some loud people on social media and some institutions tried to find ways to varying degrees of sincerity of like signaling maybe to those people to protect their bottom line right like

0:47:25 Thomas: Okay that isn't the woke in control of everything it just isn't

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0:47:33 Lydia: I want to do another video reaction though because this is just we're gonna go back to the Daily Wire where Brett Cooper no longer is but this guy certainly is it's not Ben Shapiro it's somebody crazier lots of eyebrows not actually like not not physically you know metaphorically we're gonna hear from Michael Knowles all right the one that had a debate with a 10-year-old on stage at america

0:47:47 Thomas: All right lots of eyebrows oh uh now I messed up okay oh Michael Knowles god this guy's nuts oh really

0:48:07 Lydia: 250 about well a debate they talked about the salem witch trials and he just kind of defended them Yeah.

0:48:12 Thomas: And he was on the pro side okay

0:48:17 Clip: You remember woke you remember how it like ruined your life and you lost your jobs and you were

0:48:20 Thomas: What are you talking about who the fuck is that who lost their who do you remember how it ruined your life get what like what person are you talking about I could I can give you thousands of people whose whose lives were ruined over Charlie fucking Kirk, you asshole. Do you remember that? I cannot give you anyone off the top of my head whose life was ruined by woke. Please, if anyone's life was run by woke, make your case. I'm willing to listen.

0:48:38 Lydia: Yep. Yep, that are still fighting it in court.

0:48:51 Lydia: I won't get into this, but there is someone, his name is Ryan Zitgraf, and he wrote a piece for Unheard, which is the, yeah, and it is titled Woke One Derailed My Life, AOC Can't Laugh Off Its Excesses. And it's in 2022 I lost a trivia hosting gig at a brewery over the word Nicaragua there we go there we go he complains about it ruined his life oh

0:48:58 Thomas: How woke ruined my life? No, no, no. No fucking, no fucking way. That's real. That's not satire.

0:49:18 Lydia: No it's 100 real 100 real yeah

0:49:18 Thomas: Oh my fucking God. I want, I want that one now, but that's okay. We'll keep going.

0:49:22 Clip: Kicked out of school and we had to pretend that boys were girls and we remember and we had to go march with a bunch of murderers and rapists because a career criminal took a fatal

0:49:29 Lydia: No you didn't you didn' have to

0:49:29 Thomas: You didn't. You certainly didn't what do you mean? We fucking racist. No. It's not what happened.

0:49:34 Clip: Dose of fentanyl in Minnesota you remember like remember that whole period and the left just totally embraced it.

0:49:44 Thomas: Nope. Also didn't happen.

0:49:47 Clip: Well, AOC, the leader of the woke left, wants you to know woke 1.0 was crazy.

0:49:56 Thomas: They can't not do sexism.

0:49:58 Lydia: Why I know I know

0:50:03 Clip: He did not give the most basic follow-up question, which I think any reporter, she's obviously workshopping because she wants to reverse the Democrats' misfortunes from 2024. I got this city council member friend, you know, and she woke 1.1. That thing that we foisted on all of you, it was crazy. Remember how we ruined your life and got your kids kicked out of school and got you fired from your job and chopped up the genitals of minors?

0:50:29 Thomas: No we didn't know. We didn't, what didn't have in none of, none of the remember things that didn't happen. You asshole.

0:50:36 Clip: Oh, that was crazy! Crazy. But, you know, remember we had like a two-tiered system of policing and employment and based on race and sex. Remember that? Okay. So she says, woke 1.0 was crazy. Ha ha ha. Big

0:50:47 Thomas: Really get sources, sources needed. God, these people, this is what they think has happened, what they think is real.

0:50:55 Clip: Smile. The obvious follow-up question, which John Carl refused to ask was, what was crazy about it? That's the question. That's campaign line with. Woke 1.0 is

0:51:07 Thomas: Okay. Yeah, I agree.

0:51:08 Lydia: I know, I don't disagree with that I would want to know, I don't agree great.

0:51:12 Clip: Woke 1.0 was crazy. Oh, what was

0:51:13 Thomas: I think that's exactly why you shouldn't say that. Because like, imagine if that did happen, if AOC does say that and someone says, how is it crazy? I mean, she will give kind of the answer she did give, which was like, well, it was rhetoric that we wouldn't use, which is, you know, whatever. But it wasn't crazy. So don't say it. Don't say the whole thing. And then you don't have to worry about the whole thing.

0:51:37 Clip: Crazy about it? Because she won't have an answer. Because she's crazy herself. What was crazy about? Was transgenderism crazy? Can we get AOC on record? The idea that men can become women. Yeah, that was crazy. We're not doing that anymore. Is she going to say that? No. The idea that whiteness is bad.

0:52:01 Lydia: We're not doing that anymore. Like, it's not. I don't know. He gets into Black Lives Matter and it just kind of calls out different things. Shutting down the country for a virus, making people wear masks and take vaccines. And yeah, was that crazy?

0:52:03 Thomas: Oh, was he trans and now he's not? Dang, sorry to hear that. Oh boy, is there more of this?

0:52:17 Thomas: Yeah, once again that was woke—sorry, taking a vaccine for a deadly pandemic is woke okay again this is what if you are co-signing this or playing into this bullshit this is what they actually mean they mean the fucking vaccine that's woke that's woke

0:52:35 Lydia: Why don't you skip to 354 and then we'll get a little pivot about why he's talking about this so much, maybe.

0:52:42 Clip: She and the left broadly wants to preserve woke, realizes it is toxic, so they're just going to rename it, which is the subject of my book, Speechless, Controlling Words, Controlling minds. Coincidentally, thank you. That book, one of the key themes of that book is that the left

0:52:56 Thomas: One controlling words controlling minds yeah

0:52:58 Lydia: Yeah all right grift grift grift

0:53:04 Clip: Puts forward a bunch of terrible ideas, loses the common sense.

0:53:06 Thomas: Oh my god yeah it's amazing how many you know they talk about supply chain is it integration vertical supply chain

0:53:07 Lydia: Yep, so there's Michael Knowles going off about that yeah yeah mm

0:53:16 Thomas: Integration you know if they've got all sides of it because what they do is they create the demonization of whatever the woke thing is and then they retell that as the woke changed their mind and rebranded and then they capitalize on that. It's like every part of the fucking anti -woke supply chain. They're using every part of that.

0:53:36 Thomas: They're just, they make money on every end of it. It's pretty brilliant.

0:53:40 Lydia: Yeah, and there's obviously a million pieces we could have pulled from the right attacking her about this and attacking woke 1.0 and it's so much harder finding pieces from the left saying, actually, AOC, you're wrong. Woke 1 .0 was good. Like there were a lot of, I mean, and she didn't even say that, but like kind of pushing back and trying to emphasize it's slim compared to the right. I have like two pulled

0:54:01 Thomas: There's a couple, I think, right? Yeah.

0:54:07 Lydia: Up right now, one with The Intercept and one with New Republic. So just kind of seeing that imbalance and how easy it is for a lot of people and a lot of media to glom on this idea that the things that happened in woke one they were all, um, they were all terrible and they were crazy and they're in excess and see even aoc is saying it's crazy but also don't believe her because she's the the person who who was like the ringleader in all of this too and it's just ridiculous, so I appreciate the chances that we get to have conversations about like what actually happened in Woke 1.0 like were things taken too far? What do we actually mean when we're talking about defund the police? Can't wait to hear that episode. And, you know, just breaking it down and really getting into the specifics and the nitty-gritty there.

0:54:58 Thomas: All right. Well, thanks so much for that. Don't ever pluck your eyebrows, everybody. I mean, if that was woke, if woke was everyone's eyebrows were ruined in the nineties, then you'd have a case, you know, you'd have a case against something if that's what happened woke hasn't done nearly as much damage as whatever trend and you can't really blame any one person but whatever trend resulted in the eyebrows of the 90s you know it's not even close so what do we what are we doing here uh all right yeah like you said uh Serious Inquiries Only talking about that and also the

0:55:30 Lydia: Yeah, bonus. Can't wait to hear that.

0:55:30 Thomas: Bonus on thanksgiving patreon.com/where there's woke all right everyone thanks so much wokies it was not crazy and these are the assholes that are trying to say it was and so if you agree with the idea that was crazy this is what you're helping Where will we put the bad guys my ancestors also enjoyed this tasteless fucking garbage

0:56:03 Lydia: I really respect eyebrows.