DOD290: It Was An Accident!

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast where our kids just tell us what's up. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:38 Eli: Well, Tom, Tom if you don't, if you don't start the episode, so here's, here's what's gonna happen, here what's gonna happen. You have two choices. You can start the episode by telling me 97 Dog Man references that you don' know, but I phrase everything as a quiz because I watch those on YouTube, or else I'm gonna have made a bad decision welcome to my life am I doing a bad here's the thing about being a gentle parent because we're the first generation of gentle parents tom you can see yourself out we're the first generation of gentle parents so you know what no one has spoken about is that raising a a little fucking piece of shit and raising a fully like person who feels respected and loved through gentle parenting identical experiences for dad like here's the thing if my son is 18 and is arrested in a wendy's because they told him they were out of chili and he dropped his pants and began to shat violently against the register, I'll go, oh yeah, no, that's on me. I gentle parented him. And if he becomes a leader of men who solves the crisis in the Middle East, I'll be like, oh, yeah, it's because I gentle -parented him, there is no indication which direction we are headed.

0:01:29 Thomas: I guess. Yeah.

0:01:54 Tom: That works, yeah.

0:02:00 Thomas: Yeah yeah yeah I don't even know if I can technically be gentle parent technically because I gentle parent as I say for the first five to ten times and then we run out of time on the earth and I start having to yell because it doesn't do anything so that's where I am so I'm really like a harvey two -faced I'm doing both you know what I'm diversifying my approach I'm gentle parenting and then I'm also yell dad. Those are my two approaches.

0:02:33 Eli: I'm still at a solid two yells ever, and they were both physical emergencies.

0:02:39 Thomas: Jesus, that's impossible. That's not possible.

0:02:40 Tom: That's really good. That's really good.

0:02:41 Eli: I'm at two. I'm a two. Too, and they felt fucking great. Oh, boy.

0:02:46 Tom: That's really good, yeah,

0:02:46 Thomas: I met two things not yelled per day.

0:02:49 Tom: Thomas is like, what time is it now, 10 o 'clock, I've yelled, my voice is hoarse,

0:02:52 Thomas: God, it's impossible. I mean, I always joke that if you're not raising neurodivergent kids, you're not a parent. I'm sorry. You're just doing, you just have a Tamagotchi. That is all. It's just just easy.

0:03:02 Eli: That's right. You have a cool Tamagotchi who speaks in normal. You've never spoken to a child in riddles, and I am not interested. Your life's nothing like Batman.

0:03:04 Thomas: Yeah. You got a fun, you got a fun hobby, you know, something. God, if you have three potentially, you have three potentially neurodivergent, maybe ADHD, who the fuck knows kids who just don't do anything you say ever, no matter how many times you ask them nicely as possible. You try consequences, you try try bribes, you try whatever. They're just not doing it. Doesn't matter. You know what? Maybe they'll do something once, but the bad news is you have to get them to do stuff all fucking day, all day. There's things they have to do.

0:03:42 Tom: So like, what do they not, I'm curious, like, what do they not, okay, yeah, right, so not like, tile the foyer,

0:03:45 Thomas: Go to school, get ready. You got to go. Oh, stop hitting your brother. Oh stop. Okay. Don't do that. No, you can't steal. You can't steal all the candy in the house and eat it. That's why you have a bunch of fucking cavities. Remy, just to use an example that works for all of them. No. Uh, yeah, just stuff where you, they can't do, like, honestly, most of the things that's optional, I just give up. Like, it usually ends up being stuff that's not optional in some different way. We got to go to this appointment. We've got to do the whatever. And they just don't do it. I think it's just my kids. They just, you know, they're absorbed in what they're doing. They're, I don't know. It's really, really gets old and they kind of enable each other too.

0:04:26 Eli: Let me comfort you that it is not. I can't promise much. I can promise it's not just your kid, because my fuck, I am in that fucking no we're not gonna do absolutely

0:04:36 Thomas: Yeah, imagine if you had three who are all on the same page in terms of not doing whatever you want them to.

0:04:41 Eli: Not the fact that we have him outnumbered is pretty much always size and numbers is all we were like the fucking spartans we're just fucking we're funneling him through things we're like the maccabees we're using left -handed swords when he's right -handed doing

0:04:48 Tom: So it's what you're relying on, no,

0:05:00 Eli: Our fucking best man we have a fucking situation so here's the other thing too and And again, this is a neurodivergent kid. Or maybe it's just a... Here's the other thing.

0:05:08 Thomas: Who knows?

0:05:09 Eli: Here's it. Here's another thing. Maybe it's a kid thing. Because you don't... I would love... Oh, let me talk to the Watcher. You know that big bald dude who sees everything? Who introduced all the What If comics for Marvel? That relatable reference that much of our audience will love. You guys don't remember the late 70s, early 80s failed comic book series? You don't know that? Well, that's true. Yeah, no, he was having his second child. But if I just had some kind of omnipresent person, why won't anyone talk to me? Everyone's like, well, you know, there's a difference and everyone's different. I'll kill a man for a sentence, for an imperative sentence as a parent. Just one person going, oh, I think you should do this. I would love it. And you know what? The only people who do it are fucking Christians. Fucking Christians. The most authoritative book I ever read and I loved it so much was baby wise was was baby wait wait way ahead of me baby wise it's the only I remember I read it and I was like oh finally fucking answers and then I was like wait a second eli you've been getting definitive answers for the first time in your life and that means something terrible is about to happen and it It turns out that book was written through divine revelation.

0:05:23 Thomas: I don't, but yeah, everyone else will get it. Nah, Tom was too old for comics by then.

0:05:37 Tom: If they involve fun, I didn't do that. Yeah.

0:05:58 Thomas: Yeah or bad yeah it was how to hit your kid really well oh no oh

0:06:31 Eli: And I was like, oh, that's why they were so certain you could sleep train your baby three months before everyone else said you could.

0:06:31 Tom: Oh, that's very chill.

0:06:39 Eli: But, yeah, man, he just spends. Sorry, I got distracted from my own sentence. He spent. So we it was my dog's birthday yesterday. It was her bat mitzvah.

0:06:50 Tom: Oh, my God. This is... Okay.

0:06:50 Thomas: All right well this one's already on you

0:06:51 Eli: It was his bark mitzvah yesterday. First of all, after October 7th, for you to react to my dog's bark mitzvah that way is so indicative of what has been allowed towards Jews in this nation. God damn cat. Wait, cat moss hat. One second. Let's just do a moment of silence while I come up with a cat moss pun. Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, cat.

0:07:05 Thomas: Sorry condemn dog

0:07:17 Tom: I think we'll need more than a second.

0:07:21 Eli: Siamese?

0:07:21 Tom: Do you want to tap in Heath?

0:07:21 Eli: Is it Siam?

0:07:23 Tom: Should I call Cecil?

0:07:20 Thomas: Hamas just uh bail out bail out cancel the process yeah

0:07:23 Eli: Nope, that's Asia. Different thing yes where cecil would have had 10 by now fucking damn it video would have looked good fucking piece of shit that's

0:07:27 Tom: Cecil will be done. Yep. He'd already beaten a sandwich.

0:07:31 Thomas: Hey I I will point out look in your defense Eli, you don't know that Cecil's fast at coming up with those puns. He's just very good at it. He might take like a month per show and just go to a cave. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He is very diligent. He might just be a hardworking punsman.

0:07:38 Eli: True maybe he takes a year he is fast though that'd be great no I see him in that he always gets the notes first he's always faster than me fucking sucks god I wish it would be so good that would make me feel so much better is completely losing my is auto ads but you can get rid of those auto ads over at patreon.com/dearolddads where for as little as a dollar you get a commercial free version of every show plus a monthly bonus episode folks we've been burning through the amas behind the scenes and I know what you're thinking eli you guys answer emails all the time what's the difference between an ama and an email well with an email it's kind of got to be related to the show you can't just ask us anything but with an ama with an ama over at patreon .com forward slash dear

0:07:50 Thomas: Anyway, the only thing worse than Eli losing his train of thought completely that we will definitely get back to is the auto ads.

0:08:27 Eli: Old dads let your Your imagination run wild.

0:08:33 Eli: Ask Tom questions about his sex life. Patreon .com forward slash... Hey, you can ask. I'm not saying...

0:08:40 Tom: Rules no yeah you can ask anything you want

0:08:43 Thomas: In a way, we are also providing like a data storage service because we'll keep that information that you sent us safe on patreon for decades could be any amount yeah no until we get to it you know it's like it's almost like a time capsule you know bark

0:08:54 Tom: Yeah minutes wait no yeah right yeah yeah yeah

0:08:56 Eli: Years. Until we get to it, yeah. Exactly. patreon.com/dearolddads. Rip into it.

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0:09:15 Eli: So it was Madge's bark mitzvah. Bark mitzvah 12 years old congratulations she was not great at her Torah portion but we tried not to hold it against her and you couldn't give me a cat you couldn'T help me out with I fucking struggled

0:09:18 Thomas: That's good I like

0:09:18 Tom: Bark mitzvah yeah I like it was that a little rough I mean I could

0:09:33 Eli: With the cat pun 8 million my wife is going to walk into the room in three weeks when she gets around to this episode and be like meow mix or whatever the fuck it is I'm going to be like you're not helping me get in your get in you're fucking time machine machine everyone could say I sit at home and listen to podcasts and come up with great shit yes her mouse her mouse is good I mean she's not a cat but if it was if she was a cat and it was that it would be good anyway she had her bark mitzvah we had our friends over to celebrate we had bagels we had locks we had schmear it was pretty great we did like plates it was it was honestly adorable but we spent three days leading up to this event our friends are going to come fucking three people all of whom he likes are gonna come into my fucking house that's it that's it we're not gonna torture him at all there's not gonna be any loud noises or murder or acid sprayed at him in a direction people he likes who he sees all the fucking time are gonna come to the house and for three days I was in a terrorist

0:09:45 Thomas: That yeah condemn her mouse yeah

0:09:45 Tom: Have god damn

0:10:38 Thomas: Funny oh wow

0:10:38 Eli: Negotiation with a terrorist who had had no hostages and he fucking won't draw. Oh my God. He won't drop it. We would be talking about something. So, but didn't you have fun at camp today? So, um, when Rachel and Lily come over the rule, no, there's no fucking rule. There's no rules. Okay. If I touch this cracker, then when everyone comes over Sunday, nobody can come. No, none of that. You don't get to make rules. Okay. I'll give you the best example of this. And it's very funny. We had a bit of a confrontation over vacation. Max and I hate to say it because usually I'm pretty fucking good at wrangling Max. We very rarely get past last chance. I'm not saying we never get to last chance. Last chance happens, but we very rarely gets past last change, but it happened. It happened on vacation. We were at the museum. We returned to the parking garage and my son had decided very very important to him that we needed to go back up. We had to go down the stairs that we had gone up to reach the surface of this park of school barrage. We had walked in a different entrance. He was not pleased. And I was like, yeah, man, we get it. But he wouldn't stop interrupting me for me to say yes to him. He just kept fucking going on this narration thing about that. I'm not going to put you through it. And so finally I was, I was just like, Hey buddy, you either got to let me talk or we're just going to get in the car. Cause we're standing at the car I am willing to walk. Walk out of this parking garage and then go around the block and walk down the stairs. He wants to walk down. It's fine. There's no fucking stakes for me and I'll be dead in 10 minutes. Let's do it. Fucking stairs. I'll climb out the fire escape as long as we don't get caught. Just to fucking tell him, but he won't stop interrupting me. And so I'm like, okay, fucking man, this is your last chance. He doesn't listen. I put him in the car and he was really sad, really sad. He's crying the whole way home and he's negotiating. He is negotiating. Like a fucking you ever seen that video that's like let me tell you something let me show you something that's what's going on he is negotiating and sobbing the whole time and I'm keeping a straight face now I'm being empathetic and i'M REPEATING THINGS BUT AND IT'S REALLY HARD BECAUSE HE'S SO FUCKING FUNNY RIGHT BECAUS I'M A LITTLE PISSED ABOUT THE SITUATION THAT HAPPENED BUT NOT NEARLY AS PISSed AS IT IS FUNMY THAT HE'S IN THE BACK SEAT AND THE BEST VERSION OF THE NEGOTIATION THAT HAPPENS IS THIS HE'S BEEN ARGUING WE'RE DRIVING BACK TO THE HEY BUDDY NO THAT'S NOT how it's going to work. No, buddy, that's not what's going to happen. You can't stop the car. What if I turn the car and you can't turn the car around? What if I make the car disappear? You can make the card disappear, right? We're just doing that for 10 -15 minutes as a pause and he goes, okay, if you get this question right, we can turn around. What color is a tree? And I go, I'm going to get up I'm trying not to laugh and I'm like buddy a tree is green but and before I can get the he goes you did it okay we can turn the car around and do that you

0:13:45 Tom: It oh good yeah no we can do that thing I we good news dad we can can do the thing I wanted all along ah man

0:13:51 Eli: Can do the thing you have to answer this question and then we can do The Thing I Want oh

0:13:57 Tom: God it's fucking great god

0:13:58 Thomas: Oh it's so good man it's crazy the things that we do just fucking crazy oh man I don't think that's an experience that like a lot of parents have they're probably like what are you talking about or not or not I don'T KNOW that's the other thing you started saying is like or this is completely normal sort of and I have no fucking idea I'll never know I'll NEVER

0:14:23 Eli: I'll never know and I think we were talking about this before we were on air so forgive me if I'm repeating myself. The problem is the way you deal with things with normal kids is not how you can deal with things with neurodivergent kids. So like a lot of the stuff that works and is a part of gentle parenting with neurotypical kids just doesn't work on a neurotypal kids. So the example that I use, and I think I literally said this before we started recording is picky eaters. So if you have a picky eater in your house, a good way to deal with a neuratypical kid is to say, hey, buddy, this is what's for dinner tonight. You don't have to eat it. You're not stuck at the table. You know, I'm going to go to your room or glue you to the chair, glue them. I need some fucking horror torture story. But like, this was for dinner. I made this for dinner if you want to eat. You can eat it if you're hungry. Later, we have a selection of healthy snacks that you can help yourself to. Right. Those are firm, good boundaries to put around a neurotypical child. If you do that to an a neurotype child, they will just starve

0:15:26 Eli: To death. They will never eat a meal ever again and then they'll go hey why is your kid 70 pounds under weight and you'll go oh well I told him that this is what we made for dinner and they go you piece of shit you can't tell a child a neuro and a typical right I mean you've got orphan kids tom so you fucking know there must have been a million times in your head that you were just like well Well, what if I just tell them they have to? I'm so much stronger than them.

0:15:45 Tom: Yeah yeah they won't eat before I understood what it was like I was like well I told hayley I waslike well just fucking then they can't eat until I'm like they'll get hungry and then they'll eat and she's like that's not how this works like and she explained to me like they literally will not eat and like Like, for both of them, they don't get the same hunger cues that everybody else gets. So, like, Donovan has passed out from being hungry and not knowing he was hungry. Aislinn has passed out from just, like—just, you know, walking, hits the floor, just—yep. They just don't getting the hunger cues.

0:16:03 Thomas: KNOW damn oh my god what the fuck wow that's

0:16:23 Eli: Bam.

0:16:27 Tom: That other people get. So eating is something that is, like this really intentional, often unpleasant thing. So you being like, well, you can't eat. They're just like, I didn't want to that much in the first place. Right. Like they're like, that's nothing. Yeah.

0:16:37 Thomas: Horrifying yeah yeah they're like wait so you're on my side of this okay Yeah. Yeah.

0:16:38 Eli: I didn't want to eat in the first place, King. You did it. Congratulations. Thanks so much.

0:16:46 Tom: It's like being sent to your room, but your room is like where you wanted to go anyway. And you're like. Yeah. Oh, no. All right. Cool. Cool. And chill in

0:16:54 Eli: Yeah, but your room is dope as fuck.

0:16:57 Tom: The same spirit. So I can't because I'm old and my memory is bad. I can'T remember. I'm sure I have 100 examples that are similar, but like I can' t remember any similar examples. But Eamon, I did want to just tell you guys this. This the other day. I know I told you the story that Eamon has insisted, insisted to me that he hates camp, hates it, and he never wanted to go to this camp. And I was like, my fucking guy, you literally asked me to find out if there was a camp at your Taekwondo school. I didn't think there was. I called. I found out there was I signed you up for it because you fucking asked me about it. And then he gaslit me the other Day, yesterday, no bullshit. We're standing in the the kitchen every day going to camp he doesn't like camp he doesn't light camp he has my camp he does my camp because my camp yesterday is like I love that place can I go back next year and I was like

0:17:01 Eli: Yeah, my kids' names.

0:17:45 Tom: I was none of the gas none of the gas has that additive that we can smell and you know that you're getting like I feel like what the fuck I actually said I was like my dude I need you to remember this conversation I'm gonna put a note in my phone yes

0:17:58 Thomas: Here you need to sign this. You need to sign this. Oh, that's so funny. I have a notary public here.

0:18:04 Tom: Oh you know what this entire house is just live streamed directly into a server that I can reference that I get a reference tag it you son of a bitch so

0:18:14 Eli: Can I say I do actually do that occasionally with max is I will make him make videos with me not make him making but we make I'll be like hey buddy let's make a video and then we make a video of him yes

0:18:25 Thomas: That's awesome.

0:18:27 Tom: I can throw it in your fucking face

0:18:29 Thomas: Yeah. Hey, yeah. Yeah. And hold up that newspaper. Okay. All right. That's not me.

0:18:32 Eli: Yeah and then later I show it to him and he fucking gaslights me again he's like that's not me and I'm like it's fucking you

0:18:38 Tom: That's not me hahaha he's like dad that's an AI deepfake maybe you should read a newspaper old

0:18:41 Thomas: Oh, my God. No way. Oh man.

0:18:41 Eli: It's fucking you I go we because we rode two planes to get to get vacation and back right and he's a very nervous flyer I get it and so the flight ends and despite the fact that he threw up and all the stuff he had a good time on the flight he wasn't afraid and so I was like hey buddy let's make a video about how easy the flight was for you and you alone um and so we make this video in the car where he's Like I liked the plane the plane was fun like a roller coaster it's not scary and I was like alright tell future Max he doesn't have to be scared and he was and look this isn't a fucking like you're not allowed to be scary it's like fucking here comfort yourself so I fucking make the video I show it to him and he looks at it and watches the video and he goes no cause this plane has a glass jetway and the other one was metal and I Was like jetway has nothing to do with it why would the jetway be a part of the situation

0:19:03 Tom: Man nothing that's nothing god

0:19:39 Eli: Situation it's no winning no winning

0:19:39 Thomas: That's the part that's really tough too is that and I feel like I deal with this honestly with adults a lot too who might have these issues is is I feel like there's a sense that neurodivergent people have that because they're I don't know way more like logical or something like that that means that they're right more but sometimes it's just some dumb shit like that where they're like no it's It's the jet. Like they always have reasons for stuff. And you're like, yeah, okay. I get that you're dedicated to that as though it couldn't possibly be anything but the truth, but that's not true. So how do we deal with that?

0:20:16 Eli: Yeah also you're not thinking of autistic people you're thinking of vulcans that's not the stereotype or the symptom autistic people are not more logical if they were more logical it wouldn't be a disability they don't call people who are in wheelchairs better walkers

0:20:34 Tom: But I I will say like all kids at some point have a certain amount of like weird rigidity around certain things aislinn for the longest time and still a little bit now but but not as bad, but like for the longest time, if she was like, what time is it? And you were like, oh, it's about five o 'clock and it's like four 57. She'd be like, no, it'S four 57 if she saw a clock. And I'm like, itS fucking close enough. It doesn't matter. It literally does not matter. And she's like, she needed to know exact times. So what I started doing with her when she was very young is she would ask, and she'd also want to know like what time we were leaving for things and what have you and so I would just give her random times I'd be like oh we're leaving at 4 17 and she would be like okay cool like and so it started to become like a thing now that we do for fun where I'm like yeah we'll leave in about uh 19 19 and a half minutes give or take just give her like

0:21:02 Thomas: Oh my God. I struggle with that. Yeah. Jesus Christ.

0:21:34 Tom: Weird random times and she fucking loves it it's become like from something that was like a weird rigidity thing now to something that's just like a fun silly thing between the two of us take

0:21:34 Eli: Hell yeah that's

0:21:36 Thomas: Weird man.

0:21:43 Eli: Great

0:21:44 Thomas: Imagine if you had kids who do that to each other and fight, right do they do that because my kids do that I have to break up arlo and phoebe several times a day because they're like by the way this theme of this episode was stuff our kids are saying that is driving us crazy and it was apparently driving us so crazy we couldn't get to like what the theme of the show which is like launching into it these fuckers anyway that's one is is when they yeah when they're in the mood to fight which is all the time they dothat to each other no it's not not fight. It's $4 .59, but like for everything. I can't even think of examples because it's so dumb, you know? And then eventually I have to be like, stop, stop correcting each other. Stop correcting each Other. That's nothing. Doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah, here's

0:22:06 Tom: My kids

0:22:21 Eli: And the argument lasts longer than the minute so then the argument refreshes because it's like actually the clock says it is and one of them starts crying and then it's about like the nature of whether or not the other one was nice enough while the other one cried and you're like hey can I die can I fucking die you know what would be awesome if my head exploded

0:22:40 Tom: Please oh

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0:22:52 Thomas: An interesting one. Sometimes they both gang up on me and they're like, we're not fighting. And I'm like, oh, I guess okay because like then well

0:22:58 Tom: It just you you got a handful of his hair and you're punching him in the

0:23:02 Thomas: No but honestly there's where I'm like oh maybe I'm wrong because like they are also I mean okay Arlo he didn't technically get that diagnosis but it was like yeah keep an eye on these things and he's he's skepticism there's there's uh he does because it was like keep an eyes on these and if they don't change then whatever we just haven't gone back and like gotten the diagnosis for it you know but yeah yeah well we he's also honestly honestly Arlo's thriving he's our most successful rounded kid right now I mean it changes kids are kids it changes all the time but and if the point as as they said and I think is probably healthy if the Point of getting a diagnosis is if you actually need your help and resources and he's not struggling in any way then it's like well we haven't bothered so it's not just like a haven't pushed a button thing

0:23:20 Eli: You gotta push a button I get it oh thomas I hate to correct you actually the point of getting your kid a diagnosis is so that you can call yourself an autism mama on facebook

0:23:49 Tom: Face it's

0:23:49 Thomas: I'm doing that even though I'm a dad I'm gonna say I'm an autism mama so So we're also, you know, we're also maybe looking at it with Phoebe, too. We're not sure. It's definitely different. She's always been different than Arlo. They've always been very different than each other. But that also happens with girls. I have a whole lot of thoughts on that, but they're probably not really worth sharing. But it's because it's just interesting. But anyway, sometimes they'll be fighting over. No, it's not red. It's slightly wet or, you know, whatever the stupid thing is like. No, you said it's not this because they're correcting each other on nothing and all come in because I'm so sick of them fighting and I'm so like I'm having having Vietnam flashbacks, you know, I'm just like, no, stop the fighting. I don't want to fight.

0:23:52 Eli: Oh hey fellow autism mamas

0:24:28 Thomas: And I'll come and be like, Hey, stop fighting. And they'll be like we're not fighting. And I realized like, Oh, well they also just talk to each other. Like that's just how they talk to Each other sometime. Well, no. I mean, that's like, uh, just Eli, hear me out. Like there is a, yeah, there is, there's potentially,

0:24:36 Tom: Like yeah it's just how they are they just hate each other

0:24:42 Eli: Yeah kids just speak in corrective statements no just every child

0:24:48 Thomas: I think a spectrum thing that can be sounding more more mad than you are and talking very intensely about something that anyone else would be like, that doesn't matter. And sometimes my thought is like, well, maybe that is just them. Maybe I shouldn't be until they actually start, you know, fighting. Maybe I should just kind of let them be weird at each other. Yeah.

0:25:08 Eli: Yeah just keep those vibes bad we're

0:25:11 Tom: I don't know man I think if the stakes are low enough like maybe do let them hash it out if you're intervening all the time and it doesn't stop them from fighting with each other like to some degree that's just like Like, okay, well, that's not working. That's not stopping them from fighting with each other. Like, maybe they just need to, maybe this is just how they need to kind of suss it out. Yeah.

0:25:29 Thomas: No, that's what I'm saying. Sometimes, sometimes it is, but sometimes it isn't. They're killing each other and I have to just tell them to please stop and separate. But like, sometimes they're like, no, we're fine. We're both happy right now. And I can't tell because they're just the way they talk. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

0:25:39 Eli: Actually loving this you're the one who's being

0:25:44 Tom: This is just, this is our conflict style that we're going to take into the rest of our lives. And we're gonna have a weird high conflict resolution to all of our problems. It's gonna be great. It's going to be awesome. Yeah.

0:25:54 Thomas: It's like, yeah, it's like resting bitch face, but for talking like often they have that. No, we don't. We're fine We just taught the way we talk is as though oh, we're going to kill each other, but we're actually completely happy right now.

0:25:55 Eli: Weird resting best friends oh can I say my favorite thing is that when there's a neurodivergent adult who has done that and you're like hey you yelled and they go no and you go no you did you did that's always fun because they know from conditioning they shouldn't have yelled but they also know they didn't mean to yell they were just very excited to tell you the fact they had and so it's so that they don't have to go I'm sorry they just go no I didn't you were wrong about the volume you heard

0:26:41 Tom: Okay, so wait a minute. Do we define yelling as just volume or attitude? Attitude.

0:26:46 Eli: Oh no it's it's tone it's tone

0:26:49 Tom: Right. Okay, good. Because otherwise, I do a lot of yelling. I want to take back everything I've said before. I don't

0:26:52 Eli: Yeah yeah everything you say is yelled if it's counseling

0:26:55 Tom: Know how to not be yelling. Like, I'll just come into the bedroom and start talking to Haley. She's like, why are you yelling it? And I'm like, I don'T know. That's just what my voice does.

0:27:02 Eli: Yeah we've all been

0:27:02 Thomas: Okay, if we're counting yelling as like full-on yelling, then I have only done that like a few times in emergencies. If we're talking yelling as raising your voice, I have to do it all the time.

0:27:15 Tom: I think it's raising your voice with a tone, right?

0:27:17 Thomas: Yeah, Yeah. But here's a great one. What if you have a kid, just, these are all hypotheticals we're dealing with today. What if you Have a kid who everything, um, not to name names she does

0:27:17 Tom: Like, it's like, bring an attitude, right

0:27:29 Thomas: Is, um yelling all the time because she's really like, can't handle anything being not exactly what she wants and how she wants it all the Time. So she's yelling at you and her siblings all the And then if you say, Hey, can you, Hey? Oh, oops. Can you not do that? If about anything, she goes, don't yell at me.

0:27:51 Thomas: And you're like, oh, I did. I didn't yell, but you just yelled at me. She's like, no, I get it. And you like, wow, this is weird because you're the one who's yelling at me for yelling at you when I just said something. So yelling, the definition of yelling for some female children that I have is anything.

0:28:08 Eli: Okay I thought you were about to call your daughter the f slur and I was like okay get it out maybe cut that part of the podcast some fuckers

0:28:11 Thomas: No, the definition of yelling for some people, for some folks, for Some citizens of this house is any. Yeah. Is anything that's disapproval in any way or or even here's another one that's really interesting about Phoebe right now is even if it's like, well, you're about to drop that or that's about to spill like that kind of thing she's so sensitive to like that's like her doing something wrong that she reacts like I'm yelling at her

0:28:15 Tom: Sure yeah yeah it'll get edited it's fine

0:28:39 Thomas: If I'm like oh watch that cup or something she's like yeah kind

0:28:43 Tom: Have you looked at like I know you haven't had her like formally but have you looked into like rejection sensitivity like are you familiar with

0:28:49 Thomas: Of that's you know we're doing the thing now with phoebe we're getting it going and uh the one it was that but it's also wait was it that it might be that tom it might be that one that the person asked about and we're like yeah I mean that really sounds like and then then the funny thing was, it was like, okay, yeah, that kind of sounds like Phoebe. That sounds like, um, Remy was like the textbook entry for that, for everything, every day, all the time. So nevermind. Forget I even have another kid. Can I do Remy right now? It's whatever, whatever you have for him. Yeah. Yeah, God. Oh yeah. Yeah someone accidentally brought the DSM to life like a witch in a haunting ritual that that's what it is yeah god this guy

0:28:55 Eli: They're having her put

0:29:16 Tom: That I just

0:29:17 Eli: Down can we switch diagnosing to give if there's a shot that you were about to do can I divert it into the other child yeah to him yeah it's

0:29:27 Tom: Opened up the dsm and glued it to him I figured that was fine yeah that's fine

0:29:34 Eli: Quicker exactly they invoke it turns out that the dsm is a necronomicon and it summons remy the big thing in our house is that max interrupts us right and so my thing is I say tell me when it's my turn to talk I know he cannot give that respect but I want to model the respect of listening and being listened to and he doesn't have the brain cells or the wrinkles yet for I need to wait my turn to talk so when he interrupts me unless I am already talking right like because I don't let him he doesn't get to stop me from talking that's my child being the king right but if he interruptS me right I will say hey buddy I'm talking but when I am done and then I will SAY tell me what or if we are going back and forth I will Say tell me when it's my turn TO TALK because he'll just sort of go endlessly and then And I gently, not fully, it's not ignoring, but I gently drift my attention so that he's aware I am not in on the fucking Dogman monologue, right? If he's describing to me why he doesn't have to put on underwear, right, because he's going to destroy the whole earth. And what if the earth was destroyed? I sort of just gently fade away like the ghost of my own personality. And then he'll go, okay, your turn to talk, right. Right. And so we're we're learning that. But it does mean that a lot of the time it's just a lot of interrupting. And it's it's again, it's a good behavior to model. But while I'm doing it, the urge to just be like, oh,

0:30:52 Thomas: Yeah oh nice oh now Eli what's it like having the moral high ground on that um because that must be nice

0:31:11 Eli: It must be fucking.

0:31:11 Thomas: As someone, myself, who people know as an interrupter too much, it's hard for me to be like, hey, you son of a bitch. Don't you. Oh, hey. You know how. Probably. But it's like, yeah, you know how we do this thing, Arlo? We should do this less.

0:31:12 Tom: Did you come from an interrupting family? Did your family interrupt all the time?

0:31:32 Eli: So

0:31:32 Thomas: We do this a lot. So we should get better at that.

0:31:37 Eli: I actually have the except for comedy, which is funny because everyone listening to this podcast is like, I'm sorry, did they just say Eli doesn't interrupt people?

0:31:45 Thomas: No, you don't.

0:31:45 Eli: Um, but with the exception of comedy programs in my life, I actually have a problem of stopping too quickly and people think I'm mad, but actually I'm just very aware of interrupting. I'll be talking and someone will be like, oh, and I'll Be like, Oh no, sorry. Go ahead. And they're like, no, I just, I was just saying, yeah. And I'm like, No, I am not mad. And then like, well, you stopped so fast. You stopped so fast and I've had to learn to be like oh yeah cool your turn now yeah don't don't interrupt yes should just constantly there's a person at my work who I love very much but I've never finished a sentence in front of him not one time and

0:32:13 Thomas: I know I want Eli to interrupt more because it's like the people who should be interrupting more don't and the people Who do shouldn't be

0:32:29 Tom: Oh, that would make me crazy.

0:32:29 Eli: I love him I love he's so much but it just there's I will I will front load sentences so as to make sure my meaning gets across, right? I'll be like, disagree with that big time bad, because I know it's going to be like well, and he's also, and I love him, he winds up a sentence, he'll go, well, the interesting thing about that is, and you're like, oh, but I was midway through, yeah,

0:32:38 Thomas: Get the data in the beginning. Yeah Yeah Yeah, I'm good at not interrupting my kids and I'm also good at when I do I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry, I interrupted you go ahead but what's funny is like I do get that pang of like especially when arlo or somebody has asked me something and I put thought into it and I'm like trying to give a thoughtful answer and it's probably about their dumb video game thing or whatever and i'M like oh okay well that's interesting and I say something I start saying and then he asks another unrelated question in the middle of my explanation then I I have a hard time not being like you fucking asshole like I

0:33:33 Tom: Fucking son of a bitch. Okay.

0:33:33 Eli: Okay, I was going to save this for my parenting story, but I'll tell it now because this is the perfect example of it. So we have a real problem with Max interrupting during story time and dialogue during storytime is great, but it just becomes yammering, right? It's my frog is reading the story too. I'm making up my own story while you're talking. I, I'm saying different things. I'm playing a game. I'm doing something. And so we've had, we've talked about interrupting. And we're reading a story and he wants it to pause you can go pause please and we'll pause and we're in the middle of story time and a lot of pause please has happened so I'm like hey buddy this is too much mommy's trying to read you a story because we love you we want you to have fun during this story and story time's for you and it can always be over but you're doing too much pausing and he goes oh okay okay sorry sorry sorry and I'm going to read it and he's like okay like okay bunny what is it and he goes I don't know what bowser jr looks like

0:34:42 Thomas: Was oh man I saw that note you had I was so looking forward to that because I hear all about bowser jr all the time that's that would be one of arlo's special interests uh I don't know what bowser oh and just to close the loop the story was not about Bowser Jr I take it, right? Yeah, just in case any neurotypicals didn't understand.

0:34:46 Eli: Oh yeah yep bowser bowser junior mario no no no of course not no it's completely god if only if only what an amazing thing it would have been if that had been even remotely related Dinosaurs, Mario, anything. It had nothing. We were reading a book about weather.

0:35:03 Tom: That of course didn't matter. Would never matter. It's just, yeah. Oh my fucking God.

0:35:22 Thomas: Oh, man, that's great.

0:35:29 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:35:30 Thomas: Now that we're almost done, let's get to the topic of the show. The thing I wrote down that I wasn't sure if we'd have stuff for, because it was kind of a random thought I had, was if there's anything you guys have that your kids say a lot that you're getting really sick of or is just something you know just a chance for us to have a little gripe fest as parents yeah yeah oh don't you love me or some crap like that no yeah I thought it was it was a uh it'd be fun to have little gripes as old men yelling at clouds or whatever about stuff that our kids do that that's kind of annoying uh and it turns out we had a lot but the thing that made me think of of it that just, oh, it kills me. Here's, here's what happens. Okay. I'm going to try to not go into a psychosis, but my kids sometimes let's say they're doing something like, um, Hey, I'm gonna, uh, I'm going to balance this fine Ming vase on my nose. And I say, I don't think you should do that. I think that's probably not a good idea. That thing you're doing. I don't think you should take that thing of enriched uranium and throw it up in the air and then try to catch it. You know, it's just like it's something that is. Yeah, I really should. I really should. But I haven't. So fuck off. No, I'm just kidding.

0:35:46 Tom: Hi dad. Yeah. Oh no. You should

0:35:51 Eli: Eat

0:36:37 Tom: Childproof your house just as a quick aside. Just a quick aside. Yeah, you

0:36:44 Thomas: It'll be something where it's clearly not a good idea. It's usually food related, if I'm being honest. They're like, no, I can totally. And I'm like, I don't think you can carry that. Can I carry that? But no, sometimes to some of my kids, it is the height of offense in their culture if I help them with something. Now, to some of my other kids, it's the height of their culture for me to help them with something, so that gets hard for me to remember. Sometimes I go to help a kid with something and they kill me. Sometimes I got to help a kid with something and they're like, oh, that's awesome. I don't like doing things. Thanks for doing that.

0:37:16 Tom: Just got to take the George Costanza route. Like whatever you you think you should do do the opposite and that's yeah right

0:37:20 Thomas: Oh, yeah. And then I do that and then I realize, wait, I've just reversed it and now I'm wrong the same amount of the time and right the same amount. And so sometimes I'm like oh let me let me get that no I could do it I could carry all this stuff and that you know that classic meme of the kid grip of the the pizza I've never felt a meme more than I don't know if you've seen that one where they're like when your kid has this grip on a plate with pizza on it? Have you seen that meme it's like a oh my god I've could maybe google it but it's just like a picture of a kid holding a paper plate barely like the pizza pizza's obviously going to slide off of it. You haven't seen that? Anyway, when people share that one, I feel it in my bones. I'm like, dear God, that's so often my kids are, let's say it's that, hey, I don't think you should hold, you need to hold the plate with two hands. You need to hold, it's something like that. And there'll be another warning or there'll be something. And then wouldn't you know it, no one could have seen this coming. It's not possible for anyone short of Nostradamus to have seen this coming. They will spill pizza all over our priceless something or other ruining something that was very important to me exactly in the way like they weren't even going to be walking there but they you know decided to walk whatever it is and I go oh god I try to not be mad because I warned them

0:38:38 Thomas: For an hour about this exact thing ah oh boy that's why we remember man remember a second ago when I was like so chill and being like, hey, maybe just two hands, remember that? And then inevitably when they see me trying to not die and have a heart attack and I, sometimes I get a little upset, not at them, but I go, oh gosh, dang it. And they go, ah, it was an accident. And I go. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know it was an accident, but it was, I told you that was going to happen 700 times. Uh, that's why, hey That's why I was doing that is because there is an accident that was gonna happen God

0:39:17 Eli: Also, no, it wasn't. Yeah. Okay, so Thomas, first of all, here's the cure. I've got a great cure for you which is everybody in your house does that to you it's not just your kids anymore it's your wife and your dog and everybody and you just go oh I'm the only person capable of maintaining a grip on an object and that cures it right quick because it's exactly what I it was an accident and I have explained before it is an accident before I warn you then then you made a choice choice then you made a choice to ignore me which is your right as an american but now now we live in the after time of your choices right you didn't vote for kamala harris and you didn't hold the pizza on the plate normal yes yeah you wanted a pizza

0:39:53 Tom: Yes now you're you're just being a stubborn, yeah.

0:40:08 Thomas: I need to tap you in for this. Yeah.

0:40:15 Thomas: Yeah. It was an accident in 2016, we'll say. We'll go ahead and say, even though it wasn't. We'll do it. We'll just go ahead and say.

0:40:22 Tom: I'll grant it.

0:40:23 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, pizza outsider.

0:40:22 Eli: Outsider and now it's on the ground yeah and

0:40:28 Thomas: A business man to hold the pizza. Yep. Yep. Yep.

0:40:29 Eli: You know what my favorite part is my favorite part is when the accident results in a loud noise and I'm a person with a nervous system so I have I have jumped or been startled and now I'm the fucking asshole right a fucking cannonball has been loosed from the top of the stairs and smashed through our large screen TV but when I went uh everyone looks at me like I fucking fucking like I uppercutted them through the ceiling.

0:40:41 Thomas: Yep. Mm -hmm. Oh. Oh. Oh, Eli. Yeah how fucking dare you oh god I'm so glad it's not just me thank you sir that really that's really all I needed man that's all I did I just needed to hear that oh god yes please yeah Yeah.

0:41:07 Eli: And you, can I say something else? Can I say Something now in this moment of freedom? I never fucking drop anything. I never fucking drop Anything in my whole fucking life. I've dropped a glass three times in 10 years. And it's been good because the fucking dog has gotten in front of my feet, falling down, hurting myself. The amount of times everyone in my family goes, well, Oh, it happens. No, it doesn't. It doesn't fucking happen. It doesn's cause

0:41:32 Thomas: Man, Eli, I had no idea.

0:41:33 Tom: I drop a lot of things. I just, I drop a lot.

0:41:36 Eli: You have some kind of degenerative illness.

0:41:36 Tom: I'm team drop. I am definitely team drop amateur.

0:41:36 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. No, I'll do one. Here's my nightmare and Lydia is probably already shouting this as she's editing. So I would say the same thing, thing, Eli. I'm not clumsy. Never drop anything. But I had a weird luck streak of like one month where, you know, there's some luck involved of this stuff. And maybe, maybe I let it get to my head. Maybe I let the fact that I'm Not Clumsy get to My Head a little bit. Maybe I take too many risks. And I had weird month where I dropped like three fucking things. I broke like three glasses. I was like, what is happening? I was actually kind of concerned. I not going to lie. I was like, am I some brain tumor or something? But no, that went away and I stopped dropping anything again. And it was, I think it was just a bad luck month, but that was my worst nightmare. Cause then I lost all my, my moral superiority there. There was, I no longer was able to gloat because I was the one who had just broken a glass three times in that one like month period.

0:42:33 Tom: Can I speak real quick as the dropper like when you drop something you never dropped it on purpose that didn't happen right you just you just fucking dropped it why I don't know maybe your body's just an enormous piece of shit that just drops stuff sometimes and that's just the price we all pay that's

0:42:51 Thomas: Oh, I agree. It's really about being a kid. And if the thing you drop is something important to me or the thing, you drop something on is something important to me and you're not capable of cleaning and so what has to happen after you have the accident where you drop the can of paint all over my priceless painting or something or my carpet or whatever it is is you're mad at me that I'm upset that you did this to me after I warned you

0:42:51 Eli: Not all of us.

0:42:51 Tom: It that's it you want it like that's yeah

0:43:16 Thomas: 40 times and then I have to also clean it up while you are upset at me for having to clean up the mess that you made on the thing that I warned You about about 400 times.

0:43:25 Eli: Dude.

0:43:25 Thomas: So that's why it creates so much rage. That wouldn't be you, Tom. You'd clean it up. Yeah.

0:43:28 Tom: No, but I just want to say like as the dropper of things I don't need to get grief I know I dropped it you know what I mean it's like I I know I dropped, like, I already feel like a clumsy asshole. It didn't escape my attention that I dropped something, you know? Oh, no, no. I'm not talking about you. I'm just talking about, I'm just saying, no no no, yeah. No no no .I'm just sayin', like, it, you know, I know I fuckin' dropped it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't need, I

0:43:39 Thomas: Oh, oh, oh Tom. Oh I just, I just want to make this so clear. If, if my kids are carrying something in a normal way and they drop something, I'm not giving them grief for, okay, just making sure, just make, I mean, I don't want to, I want to be, I'm just, yeah, yeah you don't need to give that reaction.

0:43:58 Tom: Dropped it, I'll clean it up. I know I fucked up. Like, I already feel, like an asshole.

0:44:01 Thomas: Do you guys do the thing in restaurants? I just don't even look because like when restaurants when so you know the server drops or whatever and you hit the loud crash and everyone has to oh and the clap I'm like no, we don't need to do that but then I feel insane then I feeling saying because I'm not participating in humans because over the course of my life I've realized like first off it's not that novel I know how it works now gravity I've been around it you dropped a glass it probably I'll be broke. But everybody else, all the other fucking apes in our society are like, whoa, loud noise. Need to make sure to comment on that because we're in public and everyone has to comment on it. Yeah, it's like, OK, maybe the first time that ever happened in

0:44:14 Tom: That is so fuckin' insanely rude. I hate that shit yeah yeah just put it anywhere okay awesome you're the best

0:44:41 Thomas: Your presence.

0:44:41 Eli: When people clap, when a waiter drops something.

0:44:44 Thomas: Oh, boy, that's that's they should go to jail.

0:44:46 Tom: Yeah there's no world where you clap and the way the waiter just drops something you clap you're like I'm still a good person though right like no no you're garbage you're absolute garbage

0:44:54 Thomas: Oh, yeah, they think they're the best person. But just in case you're what you say, I just want to make very clear when my kids have a normal thing that's just an accident I'm oh no big deal I'm helping I'm totally what this is only specifically when I'm telling them and when I am pleading with them please don't do this please please please don t please just this one at a time yeah you're you're oh what's that you're over my priceless collection of fucking whatever it is please don' t carry two cans of paint on your head don't dude that's not please don and then they yell at me cuz they're like, I can do it, I could do it you can't, I didn't know how to do it and then they drop it, and then I'm like, ah, and then I go, it was an accident, it's

0:45:13 Tom: Please don't do the the thing you're doing right now I know I didn't mean to do

0:45:36 Thomas: An accident yeah, I know I don't, what does that do, I literally this is me being a bad dad, but one time I was like, what is that mean, what does that mean? Why is that, what is, I don know, I knew it was an accident but I told you not to do it, please God yeah Yeah.

0:45:52 Eli: That's the key, right? It's not, you dropped a thing, right. I don't like that because I have a nervous system and I'd love to keep it in some kind of balance. I'm not going to lie. You know, once a month on my hands and knees, gently swiping a wet paper towel across my kitchen floor in hopes of finding glass shards so they don't bury themselves into my feet. It's not fun, but I get it. We've all been there, except for me, who that never happens to. But hypothetically exactly yeah the cupboards should be fine but yeah so it's it technically exactly it's the hey I think this is about to happen

0:46:24 Thomas: Which is crazy because your covers are always open too. So you're on hard mode over over there yeah yep

0:46:30 Tom: It okay well you should check your holding privileges there Bosnick

0:46:41 Eli: And if you take one second of your life right now your life experience will change 0 % and everyone will feel better and do better and then it happens happens and everyone looks at me because they know, they know I know. Everyone looks at me like, oh, are you going to be a real piece of shit about this? You, you time traveling fuck.

0:47:09 Thomas: Yep oh man so tom does anything bother you about your kids there's just me and eli big psychopaths over here oh that's a good point yeah

0:47:14 Tom: Oh it's just the you guys being just the same thing fucking gaslighting the shit out of me that's the only thing I could think of

0:47:23 Clip: DEAR OLD DAD

0:47:29 Eli: All right, gentlemen, before we go, my twins were being delivered. My daughter was born at five to midnight, but my son didn't follow right away. The doctor said, don't worry. The son will come out tomorrow. After October 7th, for you to react to my dog Spot mitzvah that way ask tom questions about his sex life disagree with that big time bad

0:48:39 Tom: You son of a bitch

0:48:45 Thomas: Remember that