GG69: The Most Dangerous Newlywed Game

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavel in Gavelinos. It's Thomas. That over there is Lydia. How you doing? Yeah, it's the gavel of our marriage. Do they gavel? They should gavel marriages. We weren't gaveled, but why not? It's not like there's too many things that you use a gavel for. Like most, most like normal people. How often do you get to encounter the majesty of a gavel? They'll figure it out. They'll

0:00:29 Lydia: It's gavel time. I'm feeling extremely married. How married are you feeling? We were not gaveled. It's a good question. Yeah, I will say, though, it probably makes it really weird for outdoor weddings like ours was because now you have to have like a little table to put the gavel on. It is a whole thing. It s a whole

0:01:02 Thomas: They'll figure it out. Plus, we'll employ more gavelsmen because right now they're having a hell of a time finding work. They also could do it at the city hall or whatever, you know? Yeah, I guess it is a little bit evocative of an auction, which is not amazing, you

0:01:20 Lydia: Yeah, that's a great point. I think maybe we keep the gavel out of marriage because otherwise women are property. Yeah, yeah, I don't think we should go back to that. Okay, you'd like that.

0:01:22 Thomas: Know? You're like, sold! Yeah, well, maybe you're buying me. I don't know. It's the future. Maybe I'm the chattel. Maybe I, maybe learn more about our marriage dynamic in today's episode. I hate to say it, but it's also gavel gavel 69.

0:01:39 Lydia: Of course it is of course it is how'd we do yeah

0:01:47 Thomas: Good times. Well, on that note, Matt is about to do the interview. That's the like with both of us and the residency part. And then we'll get a bit of the, essentially the newlywed game part of it, the debrief of it. We'll see how we did. We'll see. You know, no spoilers. Did we remain married after this? We all know I'm getting deported, but did we try again? Did Lydia move with me to Canada or is she with another person now? Some other hockey player. Yeah. Some other property. She's buying, selling. She just buy low, sell high. You now, that's what. All right. Well, this was so much fun. Let's get on back over to

0:02:01 Lydia: Jury's out yeah some other property yes yep yep you know me that's what I always say

0:02:34 Thomas: Thanks so much, Gavelinos, for listening. And I'll remind you at the end of the episode, too, but since we caught up to our schedule, that means that there is one more episode of this with a lot more fun stuff. But normies are going to have to wait a little bit. So if you want to get away, I don't know what that voice is.

0:02:48 Lydia: Surprise being a normie I don't know no one is is going to know where they're supposed to go.

0:02:55 Thomas: It's because I, yeah, but I can't say it loud. Everyone will. It's, it's like a secret. Yeah.

0:02:56 Lydia: You need to enunciate. We want everyone to hear it, but we want everyone...

0:03:02 Thomas: It's a secret deal. But if they think it's a sacred deal, you're blowing this. Look,

0:03:04 Lydia: No, no, no. But it's not a secret deal. It's a deal that we want to know everyone has access to.

0:03:10 Thomas: I know you have so much experience buying and selling men, but Patreon, you know, is my territory okay so patrons will get the part the uh episode 70 the last part of this fun little

0:03:18 Lydia: All right. We'll see how that goes.

0:03:25 Thomas: Adventure uh right away normies you gotta wait until monday right yeah that's when the show is every single monday we never miss one every single time like clockwork like a monday clock

0:03:32 Lydia: Mondays. Never have, never will. Yep. Or this isn't a gavel in my hand.

0:03:40 Thomas: Clock. All right. Well, thanks, Gavelinos. Let's get on over to it. Hi, hun, ex-convict, apparently.

0:03:46 Lydia: Are we divorced? What? Wait, what? Oh, me? Oh yes. Oh, I got convicted. Oh okay. Oh my gosh. Oh boy. Oh

0:03:55 Matt: Welcome back, Mrs. Smith. You may have remained.

0:03:58 Thomas: Very curious to know what's going on. Yeah. Oh, sorry. No, I was joking. I meant like a criminal, apparently. Oh sorry. Oh that's my lawyer. He's the one on the show you asked about. Sorry, I don't

0:04:10 Matt: Yeah. Guys, I think we need to talk about this outside, please. Thank you.

0:04:18 Thomas: Know why I didn't make that connection. He is sitting here right next to me. Okay, never mind.

0:04:19 Matt: That would be a fantastically massive conflict of interest. Mr. Cameron?

0:04:26 Thomas: Mind. He's not on the show. This guy, you can tell because he's not nearly as good looking as the other guy. You can tell. I'll show you photos. This guys, sorry, but no offense, Mr. Attorney, but holy shit. Here's the funny thing. Probably no. I might be the one per, you know, there's the

0:04:27 Matt: Yeah. Yeah, I was very confused. I will say that man has a face for radio, video, the man in the room with us. So just want to go through the residency portion now. Mrs. Smith, I want to remind you that you remain under oath in case I ask you any questions, but I don't think I will need to. These questions are going to be for your husband. These are routine questions for the most part that we ask everyone. I'm just going to get through very quickly. We'll skip the preliminaries. I think that's fine. We've covered most of it. Have you ever been a member of, involved in, or in any way associated with any organization or association, fund, foundation, party, club, society, or similar group in the United States or in other locations in the world? No. Is that right? No, that's fair. You're allowed to ask

0:05:03 Lydia: You know thomas smith and time

0:05:10 Thomas: Whole, like, I wouldn't be a member of a club that would have me as a member. Well, that also doesn't apply because I mainly just wouldn't be a member of a club because it takes effort and people. So that would be, yeah, there could be something, but cause I know you're not actually going to be able to check this for the show. So I'm going to say no, but if it was real life, I think I would say, I probably asked like, so what, what kinds of things qualify? I'm not sure what level of granularity do you mean, sir? Yeah. Oh, uh, Oh, okay. Does it count if I like donate

0:05:35 Matt: Follow-up questions, please do. And you can always check with your counsel for clarification as well. This is very important. The eye will remind you you're under oath, and these are very significant questions, sir. So I would say anything that requires membership or dues. No, that's different.

0:05:50 Thomas: To like the ACLU? Okay. I don't know if that, I think they call you, I Think they call call you like a member, don't they? Or something. I don't know. It's not, I don't do meetings or anything, but I just like donate. Okay. Well, I'll just say that just in case. Okay, I thought

0:05:53 Matt: Although I don't know why you would do that, Ben. Yeah. I forgot to ask you before, you know, you said you have a legal podcast. I just had it, forgot to ask. I'd just completely slipped my mind. But my favorite legal podcast, the one I just can't get enough of, have you heard of Ben Shapiro? No, no, no. I never heard of that one. Doesn't sound great. Yeah. But Ben Shapiro,

0:06:15 Thomas: You're going to say law and chaos. No one has. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yep. Him and Nickelback. I get

0:06:18 Lydia: Can't like pick up shifts at mcdonald's x-nay on the irkway

0:06:24 Matt: Though, my favorite. Voice of an angel, that man. Can't get enough of him. You don't sound very enthusiastic about Ben Shapiro. I'm putting it down to sure as your response to that. Okay. All right. Okay, you can sign this sworn statement later. This is my first day, actually,

0:06:29 Thomas: It. Yeah those are two. Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah that's a pretty good summary of what I said. You're good good at your job. I just want to say you're very good at this. Nope. Denied a visa. So I got him

0:06:44 Matt: So thank you. Have you ever been denied admission to the United States? Have you been denied a visa to the U.S.? You've held only one visa, as far as I can tell. Are there any others? Okay,

0:06:53 Thomas: So bad at these things. No, I haven't been denied a visa yet. Yes. I did a little bit

0:06:59 Matt: Okay, very good. Just the one student visa. All right. And have you ever worked in the United States without authorization? I see. Okay. No, that actually would be without. So this was not within the OPT period, but in the authorized. I understand you did some authorized employment in your program, accounting I see here, but you're telling me you had some unauthorized employment as well. Sure. Yes. I know it was a few years ago, Thomas. I'll just remind you that during

0:07:06 Thomas: While I was in school. Wait, but if I'm while I'm in school, then yeah. Yeah. I need, I just, it was expensive in school but if I'm in a question for my lawyer, Matt lawyer, if I am in It says while in school, in the facts that I have, I did unauthorized work. Now, if I'm on my visa, what's unauthorised? Am I only allowed to do certain things? Oh, and so I guess I'm just curious.

0:07:38 Matt: Your student visa program, you're authorized a certain period of time where you can work within in your program, as long as you're doing work that's related in optional practical training. And so I understand you did some work with an accounting firm at some point in your optional practical training, but of course we do have to, in this interview, disclose any other way that you earned money during the time that you're in school that was unauthorized. Nope. No babysitting,

0:07:57 Thomas: I was not allowed to, like, if I'm like, oh, shoot, don't quite have enough money, and then I can't get the authorized work or whatever, I can't just do any work to, yeah, to be able to like, oh, really? I didn't know that.

0:08:09 Matt: No dock walking. Yeah, can't even sell your body. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah." All right. Okay.

0:08:16 Thomas: Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I did do a little, I was a little confused on the rules. I did do, full disclosure, a little bit of unauthorized work on the side with Lydia's cousin. Didn't really understand or think about it, but it was just a few bucks while I was in school. The terms of our conditions. Okay. Well, this one, I would definitely talk to my lawyer.

0:08:32 Matt: Well, that's all right. As your counsel, I'm sure, has advised you, any unauthorized employment is excused for people married to U.S. citizens. We just need to put you down for a yes. And have you ever violated the terms or conditions of your non-immigrant status I'll give you a hint you just told me you did so yes and since we're talking thomas I just remind you you have overstayed

0:08:49 Thomas: Hey, lawyer Matt, I guess, can I just, I'll just say, yeah, I don't have to be specific. Uh yes that's why I said yes um no no no uh in any country I don't know uh no was that in the

0:08:57 Matt: Your visa and you did work without employment those are both so that does count very good

0:09:02 Lydia: This is news to me

0:09:03 Matt: Thank you putting it down for a yes are you presently, have you ever been in removal proceedings including expedited removal no okay ever been issued a final order of exclusion deportation removal ever been granted voluntary departure all right have you been arrested cited charged are permitted to participate in a diversion program or detained for any reason by law enforcement in any country? No, you're going with no. I'm going to ask one more time and reminding you that you're under oath. Have you ever been arrested, cited, charged, or permitted to participate in diversion program, including pretrial diversion, deferred prosecution, deferred adjudication, or any other withheld adjudication? I know it was a long time ago,

0:09:46 Thomas: Secret uh attorney matt uh was this in the secret facts because I don'T think so we did oh shit

0:09:51 Matt: Thomas, but we did put in some records. You do have a record. Yes. That's all right.

0:09:56 Thomas: Sorry you should have given me that in writing because I couldn't couldn't remember um I'm talking my attorney hon I don't know are you allowed to eavesdrop on my no I totally and now

0:10:04 Matt: Yeah, I'm very sorry, Mrs. Smith, you cannot participate in this. Yes, Thomas, I am just reminding you as your attorney that we did put these records in. It is very important that you be as honest as possible.

0:10:13 Thomas: Now, those records we put in, do you remember what they said or anything about them?

0:10:17 Matt: Yes, so Mr. Smith I have here that you have been arrested on three counts of vandalism at different times. Well, we did look into this a little more, and all three of these incidents appear to

0:10:18 Thomas: Because I don't. Oh, God, that's right. That's right, yep. Sorry, going back. Excuse me, just speaking with my attorney. Yes, of course. Sorry, I did have some minor things, vandalism in Canada. But, you know, it's Canada, so whatever. You would probably vandalize Canada, right? Sure.

0:10:40 Matt: Involve the Nickelback tour bus. Is that correct?

0:10:43 Thomas: You're right, and I would do it again, damn it. Oh, wow.

0:10:46 Matt: I was so interested in this that I obtained the plea transcript from the most recent incident.

0:10:50 Thomas: I think it said exactly, you're right. I would do it again. I think I've been consistent.

0:10:53 Matt: Quoting yourself, yes.

0:10:53 Thomas: Look, consistency is, say a lot of things about me.

0:10:56 Matt: Yeah, no, I do have it on the plea transcript. Here, that as you were running away from the tour bus that you just vandalized with Nickelback rocks and very large letters, he was heard to shout, my name is Thomas Smith, and I would do this again.

0:11:04 Thomas: Yep. And I threw the sandwich too. I did all that stuff.

0:11:09 Matt: Oh, Thomas, hold on. Don't start admitting to crimes. We're sticking with the crimes we know

0:11:10 Thomas: Yeah. Threw a sandwich at it. Sorry. Well, the sandwich didn't do anything, so it wasn't part of the vandalism, and I don't think it was technically a crime. I just want to add in that detail that I did throw a sandwich at the bus as well. Yeah.

0:11:16 Matt: About. Okay. Kind of weird, but sure. All right. Have you ever committed a crime for which you were not arrested? It is a trap question, Thomas. This is not a confessional booth, so the answer

0:11:29 Thomas: I'm going to speak with my attorney real quick. You're the expert. This feels like one of those trap questions because it's like everybody's done some sort of crime. Okay. So, oh, do I say no?

0:11:39 Matt: There is no. Yeah, you can't possibly account for all the times you might have downloaded things

0:11:42 Thomas: Oh, really? But isn't that like if I sped or something? So it's a trap question, but you're supposed to fall for the trap.

0:11:51 Matt: From Napster or whatever else. Well, then you have to describe everything you've ever done. So

0:11:53 Thomas: Exactly. So okay so but if you answer yes then they're just like good day to you you're out of the country oh so you just say no okay okay uh no fair fair you know I learned my lesson I learned

0:12:01 Matt: You probably don't want to do that. Yeah. Very good. Have you ever pled guilty to or been convicted of a crime or offense? I have here that you took down 90 days of probation on that last vandalism charge, which I have to say is not enough. I think that should have been several years in prison for the Nickelback tour bus. I hope so, Mr. Smith. I have said that.

0:12:19 Thomas: My lesson yeah yeah look we all have things we're ashamed of and I know now that buses

0:12:22 Matt: This is not the kind of immigrant this country needs. Hmm.

0:12:30 Thomas: Shouldn't be written on you know oh boy uh I I know

0:12:35 Matt: All right. Okay. You're aware, though, that taking that probation constituted a conviction, even though you were told that it wouldn't in Canada. I'm sure you've been advised this is actually a conviction. All right?

0:12:44 Thomas: Know now. Yeah. I didn't know at the time, apparently. So that seems like a tricky rule.

0:12:47 Matt: Officer, I just want to jump in.

0:12:49 Thomas: It was petty. I agree. It was petty, but I mean, but yeah, go ahead. Yeah, sorry. Boy,

0:12:50 Matt: I'm pretty sure you already have this, but this actually would constitute a petty offense. It was only a 90-day sentence. The possible... Excuse me. Hold on, Thomas. One second. I just... This is very realistic. One second, I'm sorry. Make sure, officer, that we're agreed that this is a petty offense, which would not go toward inadmissibility? Yes, counsel, I think so. I'm going to have to review that. I will run this by a supervisor. All right. Have you ever been ordered, punished by a judge who had conditions imposed upon you that restrained your liberty? Think carefully. And you still can't name your favorite Nickelback album after all of that court-imposed Nickelback listening? All right,

0:13:13 Thomas: This is the best acting I've ever heard Matt do. Well, they made me listen to a lot of Nickelback after that, which I feel like was an attack. No, I just, it was court imposed. Yeah it was just court imposed, like I couldn't, could someone tell you the brand of the ankle monitor they had on? Probably not. You know, like it's just that kind of thing. I know I had to listen to it, but

0:13:39 Lydia: Hmm. Yes. Can we see a supervisor if I'm being told to kill my husband?

0:13:39 Matt: Have you ever violated or attempted or conspired to violate any controlled substance law or

0:13:40 Thomas: But I got through it.

0:13:45 Matt: A regulation of a state or the United States or a foreign country? Best to say no, to your knowledge. You're not familiar with all the controlled substances laws in the world. Very good. Have you ever trafficked in or benefited from or knowingly aided, abetted, assisted, conspired, or colluded in the illegal trafficking of any controlled substances? Very good. Are you the spouse, son, or daughter of an alien who did any of those things with controlled substances Very good Have you every engaged in prostitution or are you coming to the United States to engage in prostitution? I am, sir, a federal officer of the United

0:13:47 Thomas: I'm going to speak to my attorney. Was this another trap? Do I just have to say no? Let's say no. Okay. To my, yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. To my knowledge, no. No. Not to my knowledge. No.

0:14:18 Thomas: Who's asking? Sorry. No, that was just a joke. That was just as funny as I thought it was.

0:14:23 Matt: United States. This is not a joke, sir. Do you think this is funny? None of these questions are

0:14:24 Thomas: That was a joke as I'm a, I'm a comedian. I thought my joke was funny, but if you didn't, then no, that was, that wasn't as not funny as Nickelback is good. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. I'll trust that he can't work that one out. Yeah. Yeah, no, I was trying to be funny.

0:14:30 Matt: Funny, Mr. Smith. Oof. All right. I'm going to be considering everything you've said today in this decision. I have to let you know. And I remind you again, you are under oath and Congress wrote these questions not to be funny, sir? Well, this is not the place. All Right. Okay. Very good.

0:14:46 Thomas: I don't think Congress is very funny. Okay. Okay, I will no longer be, lesson learned, no longer to be fun. What was the question? Oh, prostitution. Oh, no. That would be funny if you weren't a prostitute. But one time I picked up somebody's dollar bill and they had just left it for prostitutes? No, I haven't. No. Nope. Yep. Oh, I thought it was related to gambling. Sorry,

0:15:02 Matt: Ever received any proceeds or money from prostitution? All right, you've never been a pimp is the question. Do you intend to engage in illegal gambling or any form of commercialized vice. All right. Just podcasting? I would consider that to be commercialized advice, especially the background I've done on your show. It is, but commercialized advice. I'm just telling you my opinion, sir. I don't, I'm not sure the law would agree with me. Have you ever exercised immunity, diplomatic or otherwise, to avoid being prosecuted for a criminal offense in the United States? Have you ever served as a foreign government official? All right, skipping ahead, just a few more things. Have your ever engaged in money laundering? Have you ever knowingly aided, abetted, assisted, conspired, or colluded with others in money laundering. Ever engaged in any activity that violates or evades any law relating to espionage? Are you a spy, sir, for Canada? Sabotage. I'm asking. We're not a Beastie

0:15:26 Thomas: I misunderstood. Like advice related? Oh, oh, I see. Nope, nope, nope. Uh, no. Are you saying sabotage or are you asking about sabotage? I wasn't sure if you were like, sabotage, like you're accusing or something, or like saying, look over there. No, hold on. Do they count whatever I did to that bus? I mean, the bus still worked. So I think no. Unfortunately, Fortunately, the bus still functions. So I'd say no. Oh, no, no.

0:16:05 Matt: Boys tribute band. Have you engaged in sabotage? Very good. I know that. Oh, the question actually is sabotage in the United States. So we can actually, I appreciate your consideration.

0:16:20 Thomas: Next time they're on tour here, maybe. But no. Yeah.

0:16:24 Matt: Engaged in any activities in the States that evade or violates any law prohibiting the export from the United States of good technology or sensitive information. Engaged in any activity whose purpose includes opposing, controlling, or overthrowing the U.S. government by force, violence, or other unlawful means while in the United States. Hmm. All right. So you were not at January 6th. We will run that up the chain. I'm not sure what we're going to do with you.

0:16:46 Thomas: Yeah. Counts against me.

0:16:48 Matt: Yeah. We're looking for people who are at January six. That would be the correct answer.

0:16:49 Thomas: I mean, I was I was at the date January 6th. Yeah, but I was out.

0:16:56 Matt: You were in California as I understand it, but all right. You've received any weapons training, paramilitary training, or another military type training. Ever committed kidnapping, kidnapping, assassination, hijacking, or sabotage of a conveyance. No, I don't think that would be sabotage. Thomas, you got to stop admitting to crimes just as your attorney. You weren't

0:16:59 Thomas: The date there. It was January 6 at some time.

0:17:07 Thomas: Don't think so. Just that bus, if that counts. But no, it still worked. So I don't think. So, OK, sorry.

0:17:21 Thomas: My lawyer just told me I should stop admitting to crime. So I'm going to say no. Oh, my lawyer said I shouldn't repeat what he says. When do I start not repeating? Yeah. Nope. Nope, I'm gonna go and say I can't medically I can process any of this.

0:17:24 Matt: Supposed to repeat that. Okay. All right. All Right. Let's all just take a beat.

0:17:32 Matt: Threatened, attempted, conspired, prepared, or planned to do any of the things described above, including using a weapon or explosive or any dangerous device with the intent to endanger the safety of another. All right. Ever incited or under any circumstances indicating an intention to cause death or serious bodily harm or injury to any of these activities we've just mentioned. Participated in or been a member of or a group or organization that did any of the activity described above. Mr. Smith, English is your first language, is it not? Interesting. Not speaking

0:17:58 Thomas: Can my lawyer just answer? I don't even know what this means. Yeah, but you're not speaking English. I don't. What is all that stuff? Legalese? I dunno, man. It's hard to understand. My lawyer, sorry, my lawyers said I should stop saying stuff like this. And then he said stop repeating what what I'm saying again okay uh no oh no no no uh associated yeah I don't uh no yes that would

0:18:07 Matt: English. I'm taking this down. Yes. All right. Okay. Essentially, we're just looking to see if you've been involved with any acts of terror, sabotage, and ever been associated with any groups or people. You're sure? Would it surprise you to learn that you have, in fact, been very closely associated with a Quebecois terrorist separatist group? Your ex-wife went on to nearly blow up the parliament. This would have been, I'm seeing, 2010. So yes, your testimony before is that you were separated for some time before that, right? So this is news to you. You've never heard this. So your wife, your ex is actually wanted in Canada right now. She is on the run.

0:18:37 Thomas: Surprise me what well but I wasn't associated with it yeah yeah I absolutely are you sure you got the right person she was so boring though that's interesting well you got me there wow I'm

0:19:00 Matt: Canada doesn't produce the most exciting terrorists, sir. Okay. I'm glad to hear that you're not aware of that. Okay, very good. Later, not now. You may go gold, I'll give you permission.

0:19:05 Thomas: Gonna have to look this up no yeah wow am I allowed to look that up later or would that be terrorism okay thank you I'm sure wow wow I did I was not aware I was unbeknownst do you have that word

0:19:13 Matt: Vision. Yeah. Because, you know, one of the questions is, are you the spouse or child of an individual who ever engaged in any of these activities? And technically you were her spouse at the time. Yes. All right. Not announced yet. Very good. Taking that down. I will just take it on faith that English is your first language. All right. Have you ever sold, provided, or transported weapons or assisted anyone doing that? Ever worked, volunteered, or otherwise served in a prison jail, prison camp, detention facility, labor camp, or other place where people were detained? Have you been a member of, assisted, or participated in any group of organization in which you used any type of weapon or threatened to do so? Ever been a member of any military police unit? Have you ever served in, but a member or assisted or helped any kind of paramilitary unit, self-defense unit, vigilante, rebel group, or guerrilla group? All right. As established, you were not aware of your association. I'm going to take that on faith. Very good. Have you ever been a member ever in any way affiliated with the Communist Party or any totalitarian party? Excluding the Republican Party, of course. Torture, question

0:19:25 Thomas: Here it was not noted to me it's a big Canadian word sorry yeah nope no that's an interesting question nope unless a podcast is a weapon no I'm just kidding uh no nope right yes yeah no no is that a question just in general are we doing that now no no can't say that I have no no

0:20:14 Matt: Mark. That is a question. Have you ever been ordered, incited, called for, committed, assisted, or helped others to participate in torture? No, no torture. I am putting you down for no. And how about genocide? It's on the list. Killing or trying to kill any person. Intentionally or severely injuring or trying to injure any person? Have you ever used any person under 15 of age to take part in hostilities? For example, participating in combat or providing services related to combat. You've never trained a child soldier, even in Canada, which is rife with them. That's your testimony. Okay. All right. Very good. I have reviewed your most recent tax returns. I have no questions about financial sponsorship or eligibility. I just want to remind your spouse while she's here that she is now under contract with the United States government. Not to let you go on public benefits and that she will have to repay those benefits if you at any time prior to naturalization or death take those benefits. Do you understand that, Ms. Smith? Okay, very good. And you do understand that you don't get out of that obligation unless this man naturalizes or dies. You'll either have to accompany him to his naturalization ceremony or kill him. Well, you'll have to die. I might want to work on my phrasing. Yeah, thank you.

0:20:31 Thomas: No absolutely not uh true that is my testimony Jesus Christ sorry that doesn't sound right you said this is your first day right that can't be right yeah look everyone makes mistakes no

0:21:27 Matt: I appreciate that. As your attorney, I will advise you to have the right to seek a supervisor at any

0:21:28 Thomas: Don't make him mad oh I feel like he'll be pissed if we do that we're in a convo with matt right now

0:21:32 Matt: Time during the interview. So that would be an appropriate time if you're being told. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I think, you know what, we're at the finish line here. The Nickelback stuff

0:21:40 Thomas: With our brother attorney I'm getting weird vibe from this guy but I also feel like I don't want to make him bad like dude okay just kind of get through it yeah yeah I mean so it's not just me

0:21:47 Matt: Is weirding me out, honestly. And you really didn't know what the terrorist thing? I mean,

0:21:51 Thomas: Okay. No, I did not know about that. We don't keep up. Do you know every ex of yours that's a terrorist? Okay. But you do? Well, sorry. I guess I don't Keep up with them that much.

0:21:58 Matt: Only a couple. It's fine. Okay. So Mr. Smith, over here, please. Thank you. Okay, have you ever failed or refused to attend or remain in attendance at any removal proceeding filed on or against you after April 1st, 1997? Okay, ever submitted an altered fraudulent or counterfeit documentation to any U.S. government official? How about to obtain or attempt to obtain an immigration benefit? Have you ever concealed or misrepresented any information on an application or petition, including in this interview? That again is to obtain a visa, other documentation, admission to the United States, or any kind of immigration benefit. You're saying you've never lied about, concealed, or misrepresent any information. Very good. Putting you down for no. Have you ever falsely claimed to be a U. S. citizen in writing or any other way? That's the correct answer. Have you ever been a stowaway on a vessel or aircraft arriving in the United States? Have you ever knowingly encouraged, induced, incited, abetted, or aided any alien to try to enter the United States illegally. Have you ever been excluded, deported, or removed from the United States? All right. Since April 1st, 1997, have you been unlawfully present in the United States? Yes, that's right. And I have here that it was for more than one year in the aggregate,

0:22:02 Thomas: Yeah. Nope. Nope, nope, nope. No I have not. No. Nope nope. Well I did. We've talked about it. I did overstay my student visa by my wife's comment. I'm intrigued but I'm gonna

0:23:12 Matt: Which is another question here. So I'll put that down for yes as well. Do you plan to practice polygamy in the United States? All Right. And that is defined by law as intending to live in marital union with more than one person. And Thomas, as your attorney, I can point out that Canada is not a country in which polygamy is traditionally practiced. So that's actually super racist. They only look at countries in which polygamy is traditionally practiced. Are you accompanying an alien who is inadmissible and has been certified by a medical officer as helpless from sickness, mental or physical disability and requires your protection or guardianship as described in INA Section 232(c)? Well, that's a question for Congress, sir. I'm

0:23:22 Thomas: Going to say no oh and marital union no yeah no no but I wonder what kind of ableist crap that whatever that was sorry let me talk to my lawyer yeah what kind

0:23:54 Matt: Required to ask you these questions. You know, this has never come up in a single case, but

0:23:55 Lydia: Quick question on the side. Lawyer Matt, the previous question renouncing U.S. citizenship

0:23:56 Thomas: Of ableist crap was that matt eugenic stuff what do we got going there wow nope nope nope

0:24:03 Matt: Are you a guardian to somebody who's got a severe disability? It requires protection, something they need to know. Have you ever assisted in detaining, retaining or withholding custody of a United States child outside the United States from a person who's been granted custody of that child. All right. Have you ever voted in violation of federal, state, or local constitutional provisions? All right, have you ever renounced U.S. citizenship to avoid being taxed by the United States? Ever been convicted of desertion from the U. S. armed forces? It is. During times of emergency, that can happen. You can get it back. Yeah,

0:24:24 Thomas: Is that even possible no oh yeah it is possible okay because you can be not a citizen and be in the army oh wow I've never been a citizen yeah it's like if people are trying to get it back

0:24:40 Lydia: So you can't pay taxes but this is for someone who's never been a citizen oh okay okay oh okay

0:24:48 Thomas: Or something oh all right and be like I would pay taxes for you I love you so much I would actually

0:24:49 Matt: You could remarry, and I don't know how many people have ever done that, but you could renounce your citizenship and then meet somebody you really liked and marry and come back. Got to keep that that open. Exactly. Yeah. All right. Just going over the form one more time. I am now presenting

0:24:57 Lydia: All right thank you it's part of their vows I was waiting for something like being pronounced husband and wife but like we're already married

0:25:03 Thomas: File those forms holy shit really. Matt, attorney time. Matt, what did you fuck up? How? With why

0:25:08 Matt: You with all of the changes, all of your attorney review, all the many changes that we've made to this application. No, he's just being dramatic. It's fine. There's nothing important that we're

0:25:17 Thomas: There's so many changes, don't you do this for a living? This is why I'm never hiring you to be on my show. Okay, yeah, what a dick. Oh, okay. Yep, we're extremely married. Sorry, just yeah, yeah, I know I

0:25:26 Matt: Changed here. I think that you were just a little unclear on the unlawful employment question, as well as I think we had not previously had an understanding about the criminal matter, but we can talk about that another time. It is not going to be a problem. All right. So upon review, your attorney seems to be signing off on everything. Is everything in this application true and complete to your knowledge? Very good. All right, well, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, thank you for your time today. We will review everything. I'll run this by a supervisor and you should have an answer within a few weeks. You did say that. All Right. Well, pretty good.

0:25:57 Thomas: I now pronounce you extremely married.

0:26:01 Lydia: Extremely married

0:26:05 Matt: Pretty good. I hope you do. I mean, it's like an American not having a favorite Creed album. I

0:26:05 Thomas: Thank you. You've been a true scholar and a gentleman. And I will check out that Nickelback album that I can't remember which one he said already. But I will check it out. Yeah. It's on Spotify or... Well, okay. We're two very different bands. I mean, My Own Prison is the only... No, Human Clay. What's the name of that album? Yeah, I think it's Human Clay is the name of the album.

0:26:26 Matt: Wow. Wow. You can name a Creed album, but not a Nickelback album. Sir, out of my office. Get out of our office. We're done. Mr. Smith, your time is up. Okay. All right. You'll have our

0:26:28 Thomas: Because Creed is significantly better than... I'm not saying Creed's good. They're better than Nickelback by quite a bit. You're right. Sorry, I'm blowing it. My attorney is now taking me out of the room in a half Nelson. Full Nelson, actually, now. I don't

0:26:34 Lydia: With arms wide open

0:26:40 Matt: Answer soon. Boldly. All Right. So that was pretty accurate as far as these interviews go.

0:26:59 Matt: There were a few things, obviously, I just didn't want to get too personal with things.

0:27:01 Thomas: Think anyone would be as bad as I am at that. I think most people would be pretty... Okay. Okay.

0:27:02 Matt: No. Well, I've seen worse. I've seen men who can't remember their own marriage dates who are definitely extremely married. It does happen. I didn't even ask you. That's true. I'm pretty

0:27:09 Thomas: You didn't ask me the marriage date, but I think I would have gotten that one. Would have nailed that one, although yesterday, I will admit this. I will. I would admit this was our anniversary

0:27:13 Matt: Was taking on faith that you would have nailed that. That would have been a question. Right,

0:27:16 Lydia: Yesterday yes thank you yeah my head like swiveled over like I looked over very quickly

0:27:18 Thomas: Anniversary yesterday, as we were driving back, I was into work mode and I was thinking we have a lot to get done before the end of every month. And I just blurted out, what's the date? And then before Lydia said anything, I said, no, that I laughed at myself. Yep. Yep, but I got no, but I got it before you said anything. I was like, I know that I know the date. I just wasn't thinking.

0:27:35 Lydia: Yeah I know I trust you

0:27:39 Thomas: I was, like, the question I meant was, how many days until the end of the fucking month, you know, but, like I was just sad, like what's what's the date on our anniversary? Not a great thing to say. Do I have to memorize things? Was

0:27:44 Matt: Right. Yeah, well, you know, so it's extremely common that I work with a lot of people who are

0:27:49 Lydia: Yeah you can't have any notes or anything oh and I was answering based off of when we were

0:27:54 Matt: Not used to memorizing things. I work with a lot of people who maybe didn't make it past third grade and have never had to take a test. No, right. Like, so I'm asking, it could matter quite a

0:28:00 Thomas: I supposed to memorize stuff? Yeah, but what does it matter if you don't know? If you can't remember a specific date, is it a big knock against you? Oh, okay. Oh, boy. No, you asked me when we bought

0:28:09 Matt: Lot depending on what it is. So if it's something like your address history, and you're just wildly off there, there was one issue that was raised here that I thought was really unusual. I will

0:28:20 Thomas: This home. I clarified when we got this home, and yeah, I knew there was no way we had a different answer on that. Yeah, so I think, Matt, we can review the tape. I think you fucked up because Cause I asked you specifically this home.

0:28:25 Lydia: Homeowners and yeah and we've been owners since yes not referring to this specific property

0:28:31 Matt: Well, I asked Lydia, own or rent? And then when she said, own, I said, since when? And I got 2015.

0:28:32 Thomas: And I think you must've assumed this was the first house we bought, but it's not. I said, own. Yeah. Yeah. So that led her to believe when, how long have we been homeowners? It sounds like she answered, but I clarified, I can't speak for what that there-ist over there said, but what I asked him was how long, how long we owned this home? And you said, yep. And I answered the right answer to that. Or, well, I answered within a year of that.

0:28:51 Matt: Sure. All right. Pretty good. The last trip thing was kind of funny. This is a very common question

0:28:58 Lydia: Yeah yeah what did you say yes yeah no I I don't know I I went off of like my memory but yeah

0:28:59 Thomas: I said it was either 21 or 22. you. I think it was October of 21. Okay. Thank you. So you should add her along. She would have known all the answers. Will this be one that you messed up again, Matt? No, you would obviously

0:29:11 Matt: And very commonly botched because people just remember different things. My favorite one ever, no, just that it took you a while to remember that you'd left the country recently. What was

0:29:22 Lydia: Maybe we were uh-huh oh and he just didn't even talk about the grand canyon wow

0:29:23 Thomas: Remember. Right. So what, what, uh, what was the difference? No. You asked, which is the last time we left the state? Oh, you're right. That was before. Oh yeah. No, that's on me. Sorry. That's on me when you said left the state for some reason, that's what my mind went to. And then I thought of our New Jersey trip, but that of course was before the trip out of the country.

0:29:31 Matt: The last major trip you took? And you kind of, what was your trip? Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Right.

0:29:45 Matt: Right. There's always an explanation for that kind of thing. And I will say the funniest thing that has happened in this one is when this couple did a road trip and they went to the Grand Canyon and this woman was describing in detail about how much time they spent in the Grand canyon. And this guy describes the road trip, and he starts talking about something cool that they saw in New Mexico somewhere else. And she's like, did you see anything else on your road trip? He's like yeah, not really. And, she's a particularly famous landmark, and she's like, yeah, yeah. I thought that was great. He got there, but you know, they had pictures of themselves at the grand Canyon. So it's pretty easy to prove. Right. Right, right. So that would

0:29:46 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That happens. Yep. Nah, that's awesome. That's funny. Yeah, imagine how I feel,

0:30:10 Lydia: Wow. Wow. I mean, I'm stressed out about this. I have a pretty good memory for things and dates and whatnot. I know. I Know. Exactly. That's exactly what I've been concerned about for people who have for people who struggle with just, yeah, the details of things. It's not

0:30:28 Thomas: Hon. Jesus, you have no idea the hell that would, I'm glad this was fake. Yeah! Oh, I'm never going to be a citizen. There's no chance. Well, Matt, what you asked about the, you said a medical reason I can't remember. And I said, ADHD, how would that go? Is that that a real life thing at all or with specific dates yeah yeah right sure oh yeah oh easily

0:30:50 Matt: Be something I want to, I would want to clarify. And I was said, this is funny because I'm not used to playing immigration officer. This is something I would clarify as an attorney, if it comes up and often, usually I know, and I already knew this about you, that you have a little trouble with recall sometimes. And I would know that about my client as well. Sure. Well, a lot of people have trouble with dates and I certainly am not the best. I have worked with older people sometimes who really just don't have a great memory at all. And it might be good to just explain in advance because the things that people will forget under stress are incredible. Things like people whose houses I've been to, and I know they're married, I've met their kids, and other families and other extended families, and they'll still forget simple things, just like really basic things because they're under so much stress. And adjudicators don't always really have a lot of sympathy for that. Their position is you're supposed to be nervous. And like, of course, you're going to forget things. There's some flex depending. But I mean, you guys were pretty right on. It's always just very interesting to see what kinds of things people emphasize or don't emphasize in the course of this. And I was also giving you lots of reasons to be antagonistic to the interviewer, both of you. Lots of reasons that you might want to argue or push back or

0:31:15 Thomas: Yeah I believe it yeah yeah yeah sure yeah oh you don't you underestimate how much of my life I spend with a completely different opinion

0:31:47 Matt: Start fights. And certainly, you had your chance, but you didn't. That's good.

0:31:57 Thomas: Than the person I'm talking about or talking to and then just like yep right on nickel back

0:32:03 Lydia: Look at this photograph. You don't engage really. Yeah. I said indirectly. Well, because I yeah, I was like, yep, we stories about wokeness happening on campus and we research into that. Yeah, mm hmm. Mm hmm. There you go. Appeal to that.

0:32:04 Thomas: Back. Woo. Yeah. No, people I don't care about. If it's somebody I care about, I actually will, because I care about their opinion. Somebody's opinion I don't care about I actually don't. It doesn't, it doesn't bother me. Yeah, I just like, okay, you're not important to me. So like a actual heat, heated like, you did? Oh, wow. What did I say for that? Well, so for a second,

0:32:06 Matt: Something you need to tell me, Thomas? Okay. Oh, okay. Right. Yeah. I still haven't seen an interview get like really political. And yeah, I represented a lot of like lefty activists and advocates and people that if they wanted to, they could have made a thing out of it. But you know, I kind of was going in hot on Lydia for where there's woke and trying to get her to say that it was actually about wokeness on campus or whatever. And she handled it very well. Indirectly, it's true. It is about wakeness on canvas. Yes. Yeah, you don't want to lie about a show they

0:32:47 Thomas: I was going to do a bit of like trying to appeal to a Trump voter. And then when they realize the the reality of the thing is like, well, they would have everything. So then I was like, oh, okay. We can't actually pretend. So I didn't try. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I would do a lot. If it were

0:32:58 Matt: Can listen to. Yeah. That kind of stuff, you just have to power through it and just say whatever you have to say. You know, I've certainly worked with a number of people with politically sensitive sensitive stuff, especially in this administration. And we just have to find out how to talk about it.

0:33:10 Thomas: Me, do you do, this is just a thought, Matt, if, if I don't know how much this matters, but I would a lot of like, Well, that's why I want to be a citizen of this country. It's because of freedom of speech. We have freedom of speech here and people like can, yeah, I love, I love that you have your politics. I have my politics. We can talk about it. First Amendment, baby, Statue of Liberty, man. That's, I just want to live here. Yeah, exactly. I'll tell you this. I can't even talk in Canada. They don't even let me speak. I'm not even allowed to. If you knew you had a real Trumper, it'd be like, yeah, it's unbelievable. They tried to trans my daughter the other day. Yeah. They did it. That's why I'm coming here. Trump doesn't put up with any of that.

0:33:13 Matt: Yeah, that's right. That's right, right.

0:33:24 Lydia: That yeah america's the best country ever yeah yeah oh does that prevent you from being able to

0:33:30 Matt: That's why I'm fleeing Canada. Yes. Well, yeah, right, yeah.

0:33:48 Matt: My hero, Jordan Peterson, you know, he puts up with it, but he's still there.

0:33:48 Thomas: I could. Yeah exactly. Oh yeah. I could do a, yeah. If there wasn't a record, I would, oh man, I would love to just pretend for like appeal to the Trump voter, like immigration guy. Oh yeah.

0:34:00 Matt: I'm practically a refugee. Yeah.

0:34:02 Thomas: No, they tried to transit. That's why I got to get, that's why it's so important that I get the citizenship. Cause if she, yeah, yeah. I actually, that'S a good point, sir. Can I be a refugee or I'll start with this, but I may need to be a refugee, a trans refugee, an anti-trans refugee. You know, you get it, you Get it. Hmm. That was funny. Okay. Wow. Oh, the citizens one.

0:34:12 Matt: Yeah. So a couple of the things I wanted to flag.

0:34:19 Matt: I was going to bring out that Lydia had a criminal record and I forgot to ask her about it, of course. But your wife does not actually have a criminal record. Yeah. People learn these kinds of things about each other. And I meant to do this before I meant to bring it out. And this happened this morning. The officer started going down the road of asking about my client's criminal record, the petitioner, the US citizen. And it doesn't matter because you're a citizen. We're stuck with you. That doesn't matter. But sometimes they will like to ask about it. The only reason it matters is if it's a sex abuse case involving minors, which is the Adam Walsh Act. So if they think that, they will run a background check. You already had your fingerprints taken. They already know. And there's a waiver that's it's very hard to get that you can get for the Adam Walsh Act but otherwise other than that one thing they don't care about a u.s citizen's record and I was baffled this morning when this became a whole thing yeah against children specific culture yeah so that's the Adam Walsh Act and it's the one

0:34:40 Thomas: One yeah oh okay sure jesus wow if the spouse has or yeah specifically with children yeah okay

0:35:04 Lydia: From your spouse getting u.s citizenship if you have yeah if the u.S. citizen spouse has um any sort of like sexual misconduct against children interesting huh it's just interesting I yeah

0:35:17 Thomas: I mean I support that more than some of the other weird shit it sounded like there was like

0:35:18 Matt: Thing that keeps you from filing for somebody yeah we right exactly yeah but yeah no it is as a matter

0:35:24 Thomas: Have you ever gotten food stamps and execution or something whatever that stuff was yeah yeah yeah no that's one of the least bad ones I've heard of in terms of policy oof oh boy

0:35:30 Matt: Of policy you can see how maybe you don't want because often those people are bringing a child into the marriage right or that they're going to have children I've seen it really cause a lot of stress in some marriages when somebody's had something like that and they didn't know it and it comes up. Yeah. You can imagine you have to have that talk. Because I always ask the

0:35:35 Lydia: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, gosh.

0:35:44 Thomas: Boy. Yeah. Yikes. Well, until they say, yes, I abused a kid. They're like, well, now it is kind

0:35:46 Lydia: And those are like flat rejections or is there so there's like potentially some.

0:35:48 Matt: Citizen, I try to get them aside and just say, look, nobody cares about your DUI, but there's the one thing that matters. I just need to make sure I know. Nothing personal, just going to ask. But yeah, now we got to talk about it. You're right. No, it's a waiver. Yeah, right. Right.

0:36:00 Thomas: Of, kind of personal. I'm not gonna, yeah. Well that, that, see, that's the part that's weirding me out. It's not a flat, well there's the Epstein list exception. Are you on the list? Oh, okay.

0:36:09 Lydia: Well, yeah, I mean, well, in the same way that like the sex offender registry like can range from, you know, you peed in public versus, you

0:36:15 Thomas: Right this way, sir. Yeah, exactly. And who among us? Sorry, Lydia is a child molester. I forget if

0:36:15 Matt: You get the Trump gold card in that case. Yeah right. Yeah yeah. No it's so the real thing they

0:36:23 Lydia: Know, other other things. So so I guess that's what I'm wondering is like there can be some amount of nuance, you know, depending on like your age and the age of the victim, I guess. And what specifically happened, and that's all taken into consideration.

0:36:38 Thomas: If I said this. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What the fuck? No, sure, sure isn't. Yeah it does strike me. Is

0:36:38 Lydia: I know. Give me the details so I can know whether or not. No. Uh-huh.

0:36:43 Matt: Care about. There is a waiver available. And honestly, like Thomas was saying, in the scheme of things that they do here, the waiver confounds me because there's no waiver for cocaine possession, for example, which is nowhere near as bad as anything under the Adam Walsh Act.

0:36:53 Lydia: Huh. Yeah. That's interesting.

0:36:57 Matt: The Adam Walsh Act is, yeah. I, mm-hmm. Yep. Yep? Yeah, I talk about it in my class about how you

0:36:57 Lydia: Yeah. There's so many interesting elements of this thing. Uh-uh. Huh. Mm.

0:37:01 Thomas: It a lot just as a practitioner? Does it seem like it's just a hodgepodge of like, well, back in the year 1983, they did get really mad about, yeah, like people who are bootlegging liquor and then there's like a random bootleggings thing. Is it like that kind of thing? Oh boy, that is, that

0:37:10 Lydia: They added this thing? Mm-hmm. Wow.

0:37:20 Matt: Can follow the course of US history and what we were most afraid of and didn't like through these questions. It is, it is. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I love the background on it. It's super

0:37:23 Thomas: That is fascinating. Yeah, that's really interesting. You take a tour through U.S. history through basically your job, Matt, like the stuff you got to know. That's so, wow.

0:37:34 Matt: Interesting, even though a lot of it is pretty messed up, to be honest. Yeah, like the sex worker question. So I want to just highlight that because that question is obviously designed to catch Chinese women in the 19th century. That was the original thing. That is what it was for. No,

0:37:34 Thomas: Yeah, it's probably pretty shitty, but yeah, it is interesting.

0:37:45 Thomas: Really? Well, you say obviously, I would have thought it was, yeah, I would have thought it was something else. Wow.

0:37:47 Lydia: I wasn't expecting that. Huh.

0:37:51 Matt: It was because they were convinced at the time that any Chinese woman who was coming here was a sex worker because all of the men were coming here to work and they weren't staying here. There's no reason for women to be coming here as they understood it, even though people did want to bring their partners. So there was a huge suspicion about that. And there was also this general thought in the 19th century that the Chinese were just inherently immoral and could not conform their conduct to Western society, and they couldn't swear in a Bible and all that stuff. And so the sex worker question, I just want to point out, is especially bad because it doesn't require a charge or conviction. It has to be a full confession. And it's within 15 years, you can get a waiver if it's been, yeah. So the other things, like I used your vandalism thing, for example, I'll talk about that in a minute, but I picked that one for a reason. But the sex worker question, have you ever engaged in prostitution, is the only question here which applies to conduct just out in the world that maybe only you and the other person know about versus something that was charged formally that you have to admit. It's a scarlet letter.

0:38:00 Thomas: Wow. Sorry, I don't think I followed that.

0:38:02 Lydia: Wow. Oh. Oh, interesting. So just engaging in the activity itself. Yeah. Wow.

0:38:26 Thomas: What? Sure. But I guess that's if you say yes or whatever, like you're saying.

0:38:51 Matt: Yep. Right. But if they find out later that you actually were engaged during college or whatever, doing some sex work on the side, you lied. Exactly. Yep. And think about this too, in terms of the people we're talking about, the waiver is basically just like a rehabilitation waiver, which is stupid. And you have to show that you're fully rehabilitated and will never do it again, which means that you have sit there with an... And think of it at the time, there were very few female immigration officers, right? So you'd have to sit there and describe your activities and why you're rehabilitated to a male officer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of

0:38:54 Thomas: So then you're just, yeah. Even if there was no conviction for it. Wow. What? Yeah. Oh, geez. Oh. This is so Mormon. This

0:39:05 Lydia: Oh, wow. Wow, right, right.

0:39:25 Thomas: It's so fucking like that weird Mormon interview thing they do with it. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Sure. Oh because they want to. Yeah

0:39:29 Matt: Mormons and polygamy, good answer on the polygamy question. I've worked with a lot of poly and non-monogamous people in the immigration system, not naming names, but polygamy is a very, very specific definition. As I mentioned in my sidebar there, it is limited to countries in which it is traditionally practiced. And as long as you're not intending to live in marital union with more than one person. Now, of course, if you were to admit in the course of an interview that you have another relationship, that would also be a problem because they're expecting the marriage

0:39:54 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Right. And I think you've touched — we've touched on this on the show. No way, I think. But like, what are you going to do in that situation? Because I mean, generally, like with the podcast and everything, it's like, well, you don't want to try to lie because that feels like a bad thing. But, like, I mean.

0:39:54 Matt: Visa, right? Because they're, they're accepting the fifties, white picket fence, two and a half kids, you know, and nothing else. So you got to thread that needle. I don't want anybody ever lying or

0:40:12 Thomas: Like, if it was real and we have another relationship. What do we what do you have people do? What do you advise them to do? Right. Yeah, but like, do they check like socials and stuff? No, I means social media. Are they checking your social media?

0:40:23 Matt: Saying anything wrong. And as long as they don't ask directly, and the best thing is to make sure that you don't have like anything in joint names and it could be in public records. You know, if you bought a house together, like it'd be very strange because they can run public records anytime and they can be like, well, I see you bought house last year with who's this person, right? What was that about? And then it would really start to go down. Or I've had cases in which people live with other partners. Do they will check for any use of public benefits and arrests? So the arrests also can really often yield a lot of fruit. Oh, yes. Yes. Social media.

0:40:51 Thomas: You yeah so that's gonna be tough wow what if you like delete it are they gonna be like uh

0:40:51 Matt: Yes. They will check that as well. Yeah, it is. And so I tell people to lock it down. Even people that don't have any of these questions, I just tell people before your interview, or even once you've applied, it's best just to lock It down. You don't want any questions. They can use any of this stuff against you. No, you're allowed to go private. Yeah. Just go private as you're right.

0:41:05 Thomas: Something's weird here or they can they just not find it okay okay yeah that's true they're not

0:41:10 Matt: But you don't want them going through all of your Instagram photos of every vacation

0:41:11 Thomas: Like the super detectives yeah I'm kidding yeah hmm not everyone's extremely married like us huh

0:41:15 Matt: You've ever been on and trying to figure out, you know, who you might have actually been with or whatever, who we were living with at the time. Or I want to really emphasize, I do not have my clients lie. I do not allow them to lie to the government. But there are ways to get through this and answer the questions correctly in a way that gets you through the interview. And again, I have never, I want to be very clear about this in the course of my career ever worked with anybody who's not legitimately married or they can't all be extremely married, but they're all legitimate.

0:41:36 Lydia: If anyone's listening, though, lock down like your Venmo also, because that's how the Matt

0:41:39 Thomas: Oh wow oh my god I know I'm I'm like getting all stressed out like wait a minute but I'm not gonna

0:41:43 Matt: Good point. That's right.

0:41:44 Lydia: Gates stuff got found out,, because like these are public transactions unless you mark them them as private for what you've paid people for and the comments like you could be joking but you don't always know um so that's a little recommendation from me who always digs into

0:41:54 Matt: Right. Yeah, yeah, sure. Right, in this case. Right. Yeah. Yeah, keep it simple. So don't have anything

0:41:58 Lydia: People's stuff yeah yeah right yeah wow yeah wow

0:42:01 Thomas: Going to marry someone for their citizenship anywhere no it'd be my citizenship right how much do they pay attention we kind of touched on it earlier how much do you pay attention to the citizen you know like if the citizen had well I guess the marriage stuff would matter so if they think the citizen is like you know not really into this marriage but in terms of uh no I guess that was pretty much what we're talking about yeah so I guess both parties would need to to lock it down and not have stuff like that on their venmo yeah interesting yeah yeah that's the funniest thing

0:42:29 Matt: That would raise a question. There's no reason, and it's not the government's business. And nobody wants an immigration officer looking through their Instagram photos anyway. I mean, it's just a good idea, unless you need it for work or whatever, just to keep it private. But yeah, no, same with the gambling. I'm also very concerned about that with the Chinese. A lot of questions about drugs and drug trafficking. I threw in the fun detail about your ex being a terrorist, because that's just the kind of fun surprises that you get sometimes in an interview. Yeah. Okay. We'll talk for a second about the record because I wanted to make sure that you had a record for this purpose. So this is very common that people enter something that they're told is not going to be a conviction. No, no, no. This is so common. The judge told me the case was dismissed after I finished probation or my lawyer told me it wouldn't be a conviction in Canada or whatever. And you still have to put it down. And for federal purposes, because it is both a restraint on your liberty and an admission of guilt, it goes down as a conviction. So that's a real hangup for a lot of people that they don't realize that they have convictions. And a lot of these stories you hear about people being pulled aside in the airport, that's what's been happening, is people that had convictions and did not know it. Yeah. And same with the states. Every single state has some kind of pretrial diversion program,

0:42:52 Thomas: Set the record for goals in uh 2000 oh no sorry different kinds of right yeah so stuff in another country that their system is like not as big on you're saying it counts as a conviction here or is a wow wow yeah really what kind of freaking eggs was dinosaur eggs what do we oh shit yeah

0:43:45 Matt: And Congress specifically changed the law to make sure to make sure that none of those counted, which is terrible. And actually, the vandalism thing is Justin Bieber's facts, not the Nickelback part. But I remember Justin Bieber egged a house and actually caused a significant amount of damage, like something like $80,000 worth of damage. It's just a really delicate house, I guess. But I remember at the time being amazed that... Technically speaking, he could have actually

0:43:48 Lydia: Wow. Wow. He's Canadian if folks don't know that. Yeah. Yeah wow that's so crazy. Wow

0:44:07 Thomas: Those in egg houses don't stupid uh yeah yeah I don't know if you've gotten to represent anybody but would you assume

0:44:17 Matt: Been convicted of what's called an aggravated felony and been barred for life from citizenship. So he got a good deal on that when he got probation. But little things like that, you know, like little stupid childhood things. Right. Little things like vandalism, shoplifting or have huge consequences. Yeah. Depends on what they're famous for or what they are doing. I mean,

0:44:32 Thomas: And probably you couldn't talk about it but would You assume if you had a client who was like kind of famous would you Assume that could work to their benefit you know you're talking about Justin Bieber, it's like, do you think they're going to, you know, maybe get a little bit of an easier time with this kind of interview? Just depends. Yeah. Right. Yeah, no kidding. Oh, boy.

0:44:50 Matt: If they're like an outspoken documentary filmmaker who's just making films about genocide in Gaza, right, that's going to be a problem right now. If they're influencers, then we're letting all those guys in right now, we're fast-tracking influencers, we love them as talents. Yeah, the most talented thing you can do is be an influencer right now they're giving out those talent visas. And we're struggling to get, I'm not even joking, yeah, Yeah, no. So like Nicole's extremely talented, like Juilliard-educated violinists are having to fight for it while these influencers are getting waved in. It's an upside down world. Very much in the same way that the only refugees right now are South African white people, right? Those are the only people who are right holding it. We got to talk about that sometime. Yeah. Yeah, but you

0:45:01 Thomas: Are you serious? Wait, you're actually serious right now? Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. Oh my God,

0:45:18 Lydia: No I don't think so like Planned Parenthood also I mean like something like that yeah oh wow

0:45:22 Thomas: Yeah, that's I saw that. Yes, I saw That story. I just boy, that is just so stupid. Oh God. Yeah?

0:45:29 Matt: Know, all those questions I asked you, I skipped a couple, but all those question come up at the interview. And imagine if your first language is not English. Imagine, as you said, even if it is

0:45:36 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I think I'm fucked here. I don't think I would have any chance if this was a real thing. No, I don'T even know if I was. No. That's why I asked about the ACLU thing. Yeah, well, I've donated to stuff, but if donating and I donate to ACLU, I donate

0:45:37 Matt: Is English. They often do rattle them off that fast. Yeah. Well, I think you did actually misrepresent something about the club or group or membership, right? Because you were... I might get your history wrong here, but were you a board member in American Atheist? Oh, okay. Were you really a dues-paying member or something? Oh. Okay. Yeah, sure. Sure. Right. Right now, that

0:46:04 Thomas: To, I probably do American Atheist. I can't remember actually now that I think about it. But if it's, if that doesn't count, if just being a donor doesn't count then no okay yeah Planned Parenthood yeah yeah I donate to a lot of those yeah right now

0:46:13 Matt: Has not... Right. Yeah that's not really... Yeah, that's just a cause. And remember as we talked about on Friday with Mahmoud Khalil, that was actually a weird made-up thing because he worked at the UN, they decided that was a membership organization, which is very strange. That's a job. That was an internship. That wasn't being a member of a club. Yeah, yeah. Right, right.

0:46:22 Thomas: It's like yeah yeah and I asked Matt I guess you don't always get to listen to often but yeah I

0:46:27 Lydia: Wow. Mm hmm. Yeah. Right. Mm. Wow. Right, right.

0:46:34 Thomas: Asked Matt like so your whole job now is like how are you even gonna how do you even ask your clients like have you ever just talked to somebody I don't even know you know like how to even do it oh really okay so you know I don'T know if this would have come up for you Matt but what about

0:46:43 Matt: And you can imagine how some of these questions that I was asking you, how these things could be interpreted later or go wrong. If it turns out that you actually were a regular drug user in Canada and you said you've never violated any controlled substances laws, right? But again, it's just better if you haven't been charged or convicted and you don't know what the law is in any given jurisdiction. You don't have to go to court. It's the best way to go. If

0:47:05 Thomas: Out if your lawyer like in that situation do you have a good defense if your lawyer said like that thing doesn't qualify is there any chance that you're like well my lawyer said I don't even have to put the UN thing that's what I'm

0:47:16 Matt: If it's basically malpractice, but I, the UN thing is so out there. Like that's not something. Yeah.

0:47:20 Thomas: Saying like not malpractice but like maybe just a little bit of not quite

0:47:22 Matt: Right. Yeah, sure. Yeah." I always tell people, if there's a benefit of doubt,

0:47:23 Thomas: Right advice or it sounds like some of this is really how they feel on the given day the immigration people so is that a defense really or only if it rises to that level of just being yeah yeah ever's true is true yeah have you

0:47:34 Matt: Something you really don't understand, just blame me. It's fine. Like I can take it. And if there is something that's just not like not consistent in the form with what is true, then, you know, whatever is true is true. Like we'll change the form. It happens. You just wouldn't believe the things that get missed sometimes, the things we don't think about. We try to ask every possible question, but you know it is really strange to watch people being asked directly if they're spies for their country or if they are trying to overthrow the U.S. government within weeks of January 6th going to these interviews. No, not that I know of.

0:47:59 Thomas: You ever had a spy? Yeah. It must've been a great spy. Yeah. Wow. How much do you have to do with

0:48:02 Matt: They're pretty good. They got through. Yeah, that's how it works. But yeah, these are the questions that you're being rapid-fire asked, maybe through a translator, maybe not. And I go over the important ones with everybody. And this is the other thing. The thing that was really unrealistic about this is we didn't practice. We didn't sit down for an hour and talk it out and make sure that you knew exactly what kinds of questions to expect. It really depends.

0:48:23 Thomas: That? Because I would never feel ready. How many practices do you do on how thorough they are? Like, oh, Jesus. All right. Hey, cancel my fucking weekend. I got to talk to this idiot forever.

0:48:26 Matt: Depends. Depends on, I can get a sense of the couple and sort of how good they're, yes, exactly. How ADHD. Yeah. Yeah, we don't charge per meeting or anything per hour. So it's

0:48:39 Thomas: How many fingers am I holding up? Can you answer that one? God, that's kind of weird.

0:48:46 Matt: Just until everybody feels like we're ready. And I've had plenty of people where they just feel better if they can just go over it a few times. But again, we're not working from a script. I'm not giving anybody any answers. I'm just making sure that I know what they're going to say and they know what they're going to say. And it happens all the time, especially when you're talking about early history of the relationship that people like Casey and I still don't totally totally agree on how we met. And that was 22 years ago. It is weird, but you know, there were a lot of open bars at Seton Hall Law School. So yeah, but I just feel like it's kind of right. Exactly. Exactly right. Facebook was when I was in law school. It's good to kind of make sure because people, I remember one of the only things I ever agreed with Mitt Romney when he was running for president, when he said you shouldn't need a lawyer to immigrate to the United States. Right. And I agree like this shouldn't exist. Yeah. He was pretty reasonable on a lot. Yeah, he also was the only person ever to run on the idea of forcing people to self-deport, but it can't be perfect. But he said that in the debates and it really stuck with

0:49:06 Thomas: Weird slightly pre-social media or something so you can't like actually track down the answer to that yeah wow he said that that fucking woke softy yeah oh weird that's a weird combination of things matt yeah no I think we'd be pretty good at that though actually maybe yeah because

0:49:40 Matt: Me. It is, it is. He was trying to be moderate. He's trying to strike that balance, but of course, time wasn't right for that. The fact is, this is a very important sworn statement. You're saying all kinds of things that could be used against you, and there's all kinds of ways to misinterpret or misunderstand. I don't think there's too much in this one between you two. I admit, again, I knew you guys would be pretty easy for this because you do spend so much time together, you know each other really well. And I wasn't also getting into stuff that we usually would get more into in immigration interviews about your kids and habits and routines I just didn't want to bring your kids into it I'm sure no doubt no doubt I mean because I know you're like you're sharing responsibilities and you work together and right

0:50:12 Thomas: We're extremely married yeah oh boy yeah it would be me me being embarrassed for sure what's the the name of the school they go to oh boy give me a sec give me

0:50:22 Matt: Yep yep yeah yeah now they'll let you yeah yeah no it can happen they're pretty patient they'll

0:50:22 Thomas: A sec I will get there does anyone ever get dinged for taking a little too long that would be my thing was because I especially with the nerves like if I was

0:50:27 Lydia: Tip of my tongue what is that yeah yeah oh no bleep uh it's kind of sad

0:50:30 Thomas: Actually nervous they'd be like what's the name the school I'd be like fucking Jesus Christ yeah no no I shouldn't bleep it yeah I know it but like yeah I could I could imagine taking too long especially with me and with stress I could imagine taking way too long on stuff that I really should know right sure yeah no I mean I get it birthdays are yeah would they

0:50:51 Matt: Give you time they'll also let you repeat a question if you're not really sure as you can think a little bit more the thing that often trips men up especially as stepkids if you know it was a recent marriage, and mom basically handles the school arrangements and is talking to the teachers and everything. And I've had more than one stepfather who doesn't know the kid's birthday and things like that. It happens when you've got a... You're married within the last couple of years, and it is a little sad, but it can be. But usually, it's because people are just working so much, and the kid already has... Maybe it's a 15-year-old kid, and I know. No.

0:51:11 Lydia: Yeah I don't know yeah I think I know those I think I know your siblings birthdays

0:51:18 Thomas: Ask me my siblings birthdays because I would fuck that up okay good that doesn't matter you know yeah you I know you do I don't know anything yeah yeah it's showing up

0:51:24 Lydia: They said yeah yeah audio production yeah yeah hey and and you handle all the finances and stuff

0:51:26 Matt: We'll say this is a pretty typical combination of the US citizen woman who's totally on top of it, and the immigrant man who's just kind of like showing up. But that's men and women generally in heterosexual relationships, right? It's not anything to do with the immigrant. It's just the woman is usually the one who's like handling all of the stuff. Yeah. Yes. Right. Right, exactly.

0:51:37 Thomas: Yeah yeah yeah hey if they started grilling me about podcasts then all of a sudden different story. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Why don't you ask her about some of the EQing we do and how the track routing goes? Yeah.

0:51:56 Lydia: And so like that's fine I can't answer anything about those accounts and yeah I don't feel like

0:51:59 Thomas: Yeah, have Lydia ballpark anything about our taxes or financial situation.

0:52:04 Lydia: Like, we have zero dollars. Am I close?

0:52:07 Thomas: She'll have no idea. Yeah mm-hmm. Yeah oh wow yeah would you get any of that hun? I don't think

0:52:07 Matt: Right. Yeah, that's another thing that they would... And again, I just wasn't going to get in this kind of detail. There's no reason to have the audience hear about what your mortgage payment is and like what your monthly expenses are like. But those are questions, right? And then who pays the mortgage? How much is it? You know, if you have a landlord, like, do you give the money to the landlord? Do you pay it online? Like all that kind of stuff, you know, that you'd expect people to know. What bank is your mortgage with? That kind of staff. We have that too. Yeah. Worse and

0:52:23 Lydia: Yeah, I think I could get the general questions and stuff.

0:52:28 Thomas: Those are, I think you would be fine. You'd probably just guess. Yeah. Oh boy. I see. I might get that wrong because they sell it all the time. Those assholes sell the mortgage back and forth. Yeah, I don't. Ours has been like five. Yeah it's a lot. I think I would get that but

0:52:32 Lydia: Yeah. Well, okay, but that's hard. Yeah, they sell it all the time. Yeah, it's constant.

0:52:40 Matt: Worse companies every time. Yeah, yeah. And there are a number of things here that could have generated a request for evidence. So basically, I should say what happens after. Probably also, they would have asked a lot more about the podcast and had some interesting questions about being self-employed and how it's worked to work together and what your routine is working together. I just didn't want to get into all that. I'm too familiar anyway. I knew you'd have that nailed. There's no question. Obviously, you could talk about that. Yeah. Right. The one thing I

0:52:45 Thomas: I'm actually not 100% sure. Like your Spotify listing history. Yeah yeah. No I mean yeah it's easy. We can do that. Yeah. That's all we do. Finally, I'm in my element. Thank you, sir. Keep

0:53:13 Lydia: Yeah, 24-7.

0:53:15 Thomas: Asking these questions. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah well, Matt fucked up the question about the

0:53:17 Matt: Didn't ask you about. Yeah, so usually the nicer officers will just be like, yes, I'm recommending this for approval. I am just going to run it by a supervisor. They have to sign off on it, but we might be able to generate the card today. That really happens, especially in the extremely married cases. I mean, really. There was a period there where they weren't able... Yes, you definitely got an A. Not an A-plus necessarily, but you got an A..

0:53:28 Lydia: We got an A. okay yeah I want to know I want

0:53:40 Thomas: Homeowner thing. That is firmly on Matt. I messed up the one that was the other thing someone said.

0:53:40 Lydia: To know exactly what what did we mess up

0:53:43 Matt: Sure. That might've been phrasing. That's true. It was my first time ever doing a marriage

0:53:44 Thomas: What was it? That definitely was. I remember it was my fault. Whatever it was. The homeownership thing was matt's fault yeah yeah yeah huh yeah they come in punch you and then that's that is

0:53:52 Matt: Interview, actually. I do practice interviews with people, but I don't usually get too formal. I'll just kind of give them the sense of it. The other thing, since this is not a visual medium, the officer often is just taking notes and not looking at you. So it feels kind of weird and impersonal. But sometimes they do that. Sometimes they want to do like a bad cop thing where they'll kind of do... I actually did have a good cop, bad cop immigration interview once where they had two people and it was... The bad cop dynamic has been... But it was pretty

0:54:13 Lydia: Wow buddy system

0:54:13 Thomas: So funny how do they have the budget for that hey we got new budget we can afford a duplicate of everybody so whoever whoever's good you get a bad whoever's bad you get it good we're just gonna duplicate it buddy say yes buddy cop system yeah fair yeah oh I feel like you've told me this

0:54:28 Matt: Intimidating, I gotta say. It was like, this guy looked like an FBI agent, the guy they had as the bad cop. And there were a lot of valid things that my client... I mean, it was a situation where my client was much older than his wife and there were some real questions there. But it happens, you know, and it was a valid marriage. But generally speaking, like they don't get too personal or too intimate. And those are the times when I have had to stop the interview. I will tell you the one time that we called for a supervisor within 20 seconds. I might have told you this. Yeah, it's worth repeating because I never saw this officer again after we called a supervisor. I've only had to call a supervisor twice. But yeah, this was after they interviewed the U.S. citizen. And, you know,, he had disclosed that he was living with HIV and, you treating it and doing fine. And then the very first question that they ask the immigrant woman is, why did you marry a man with HIV? And that is so inappropriate. That is just so offensive and inappropriate. I'm even sorry that I had to ask that like out loud right now. And she just started crying. And I said, supervisor, we're going to talk to a supervisor. Because the interview had already been going kind of weird. Like I could sense there was an edge to it that

0:54:53 Lydia: Oh wow that's crazy

0:54:53 Thomas: Yeah yeah yeah what the hell was that yikes yeah yeah yeah I mean obviously that sucks but is their thinking like oh if they're trying

0:55:30 Matt: I didn't like. And that was just out of line. That was not somebody who should be interviewing people. This person is unmaritable, basically, yeah. I mean, a similar one was like,

0:55:37 Thomas: To find scam marriages like well surely you could have never wanted to marry someone who has HIV like is that the thinking they're doing or are they just being bigoted in some way yeah that's rough oh my oh my god are you kidding me

0:55:50 Matt: Well, ma'am, you've married two people from Kenya before, why do you think this is going to go any better? Would anybody ever ask, you married two Americans before? Yeah, exactly. And she's really

0:55:55 Thomas: Holy shit yeah are like two white people wow boy that is that is some racist shit holy crap

0:56:02 Lydia: What can you do

0:56:03 Matt: Big in her community and those are the people that she knows and is closest with in the community. Yeah, it's awful. I think sometimes I don't think about how these sound.

0:56:11 Thomas: Wow yeah all right well we got to take that awkward pause there it was kind of in the middle

0:56:12 Matt: These are unusual. These are outliers. I remember them for a reason because generally they're very professional. Are you a spy, sir, for Canada?

0:56:28 Thomas: Of something but don't worry it's just how the this is how the cookie crumbled as my for some reason my siblings and I used to say is that a saying okay good okay I thought we made that up

0:56:37 Lydia: Yeah it's the way the cookie crumbles No. I believe that. That's not one of them. Yeah. Okay. I want to send a message to all

0:56:40 Thomas: There's some weird stuff that we just made up you know and I okay this is how the cookie crumbles you know that's uh okay good are you sure I don't think I made it up I worried that it was made up

0:56:51 Lydia: Your siblings now and find out if they think that they made that up too. No.

0:56:58 Thomas: I didn't say like hey I've got this great saying I said it and then it was like is that going to

0:57:02 Lydia: No, I'm not saying that. I wanna know if it's Smith family lore that like, you know, you guys came up with it. Okay, all right. All right. Yeah, yes. We've affirmed

0:57:04 Thomas: Be embarrassing is what it was no it's not you're not listening to me this is why our marriage didn't work. Wait a minute. No, it did. They know it worked by now, I think. Yeah. But in part, but have we consummated it? That's what we're discussing in the next episode. Because that's a thing. That's a thing that matters for the stupid fucking government, apparently. They got to get in your business. But it's also a really funny episode, so I can't wait for y'all to hear it. By the way, Patreon, I'm not going to do it again. She said she'd divorce me if I I do it again she called matt immigration lawyer matt again it was like you know actually I I I

0:57:21 Lydia: Over and over that we are extremely married it's a great question no one knows no one knows if we've consummated our marriage it's disgusting and creepy god yeah yeah are you able to renounce somebody's citizenship and yeah yes yeah yeah hang tight you'll get it

0:57:53 Thomas: We get we got you it's a fake marriage I just wanted to test you anyway get this asshole back to canada so anyway uh patreon.com/seriouspod you can hear part three of regarding consummation of marriages and other fun in quotes because they're actually kind of shitty but you know we'll have a fun time uh elements of immigration law and the marriage visa part of it that all that whole thing it's really fun can't wait for y'all to hear it patreon.com/seriouspod or on monday. Gavelinos who are non-patrons that's okay we love you too you'll uh see you with part part three on monday we'll see you then could someone tell you the brand of the ankle monitor they had on sorry my lawyer just told me I should stop admitting to crime so I'm gonna say no oh my lawyer said I

0:58:30 Lydia: Eventually. Are you a sex worker? Look at this photograph.

0:59:10 Matt: You weren't supposed to repeat that. Okay. All right.

0:59:12 Thomas: I shouldn't repeat what he says. When do I start not repeating?

0:59:15 Matt: All right, let's all just take a beat. You'll either have to accompany him to his naturalization ceremony or kill him. My hero, Jordan Peterson.

0:59:30 Thomas: Right on. Nickelback. Woo.