DOD267: When Your Partner Needs an Abortion

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's a brick and we're drowning slowly. I'm Tom Curry.

0:00:33 Thomas: Thank you, Tom. Thank you.

0:00:33 Tom: I am joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bozic. That's for you, Thomas. That is for you buddy. I was going to write the podcast, that's happy to write this check, but you know. It's a metaphorical check. It's metaphorical, alright? All right?

0:00:43 Thomas: Oh, that's good. That's good, nobody uses checks, so is this a -

0:00:47 Eli: Yeah, you lost him. The podcast is ready to hand you this mimeograph. Fifteen, there's still time for you.

0:00:58 Thomas: That's not - I was gonna say that's not, that that's - Oh god. No, no. Oh my - now you're just being fucking stupid. Stupid.

0:01:00 Eli: Five for Fighting and Ben Folds are the same band. They're all the same. And Dave Matthews Band, same band, Bashing Pumpkins, same band, they're all the same bands.

0:01:08 Tom: Smashing Pumpkins? What is happening in your mind?

0:01:11 Thomas: It was funny and plausible at the first one. That's nothing.

0:01:12 Eli: Hey, hey, hey. Schemo, hey ho, me ho, it's the same Beautiful, you're beautiful, it's true I'm the

0:01:17 Tom: That's nothing. I don't

0:01:17 Thomas: What you're doing now is nothing. Do you know who the Smashing Pumpkins are? I don't think you know who the smashing bumpkins are.

0:01:25 Tom: Think he has any idea.

0:01:26 Thomas: Sing a Smasher.

0:01:29 Tom: Name one of the pumpkins.

0:01:25 Eli: Smashing Pumpkins Jack

0:01:33 Thomas: No, literally like, do you know a song of theirs? Oh, no way. Well, they're from Chicago, right? I think they're from chicago yeah oh my god no

0:01:35 Eli: Skellington is the lead pumpkin and then he goes to Christmastown. This is Smashing Pumpkins, this is Smesher Pumpkin Yeah,

0:01:38 Tom: This is Christmas, I think. Halloween. Yeah, right yeah that was my very first concert Smashing Pumpkins 1996 I think so yeah yeah they they are yeah but Lollapalooza 1996 was my first concert yeah

0:01:53 Thomas: No one gives a shit but I think they might be the most underrated band of the whole 90s I think THEY DIDN'T GET ENOUGH DUE they were okay sorry in retrospect no no in retrospect

0:01:57 Tom: You think they were underrated they were so big they were huge

0:01:58 Eli: How could they be underrated? They were allowed to play music in public

0:02:03 Thomas: Because nobody died so starting about 2000 or so the world forgot they existed like completely I'm saying now tom they were famous in the 90s oh yeah for sure but like once you got to like 2000 2001 they just didn't exist anymore it was like they never existed it was the and they were so fucking good. Guy's an asshole. I hate that guy. Yeah. God, I love that band. Oh, Tom, we agree on a music opinion.

0:02:19 Tom: Yeah that's super fair yeah and huge yeah Billy Corgan's a giant piece of shit but like who cares that guy could write a goddamn lyric holy shit yeah

0:02:32 Eli: Look at this.

0:02:32 Thomas: Oh, we do? Oh, yeah, we like Tool.

0:02:32 Tom: We agree on a lot of music opinions we both like we both like to have like postal

0:02:37 Thomas: Oh, yes, that's true. I thought that was just for your audio testing. Oh, you like it? Okay, cool. All right. Nice. I love it. Yeah.

0:02:37 Tom: Service yeah no I have the record so I've got I've got it on vinyl over here so yeah

0:02:45 Eli: Postal Service on vinyl?

0:02:46 Thomas: God, I fucking love the Smashing Pumpkins. So, so good.

0:02:49 Tom: What are you saying, Eli?

0:02:50 Eli: That's such a weird pull for Tom to have because you have no emotions. So it's crazy to have a Postal Service record.

0:02:57 Tom: I have no emotions a

0:02:59 Eli: That would be like if I was like, oh, I have a Bowflex. It's in the center of my living room. The Postal Service is the Bowflex of emotions and you've never used it. That's crazy.

0:03:03 Tom: Bowflex, Jesus Christ Oh

0:03:07 Thomas: Did oh no the postal service is to tom as the bow flex is to eli you did nail it eli you must have gotten a perfect score on that fucking part of the SAT because that was that's amazing that comparison was

0:03:21 Tom: What

0:03:21 Eli: What do you do with the Postal Service record I know you haven't listened to it do you use it to scrape ice off your car

0:03:27 Tom: Are you talking about I've of course I have of course I've listened to it you are ridiculous

0:03:33 Eli: Look we talked last week in the Patreon bonus about you going to a vape shop which was a pretty delicious idea for me to take in but the idea of you sitting there listening to such great heights and being like yep silhouettes where we go absolutely

0:03:33 Thomas: Perfect oh

0:03:46 Tom: That so I don't know if you remember when like we had the ladies on but like one of the questions from that like uh cecil hosted newlywed game was like what's your song hayley and I song is such great heights

0:03:51 Thomas: Shit

0:03:56 Eli: Not such I just assumed that was hailey and that you were like whatever you say she could have been like 26 minutes of static and you would would have danced to that at your wedding no it's a great song it's a great story it's for it's like say and Tom Tom I

0:03:58 Thomas: Yeah yeah that is a safe assumption interruption, it's a great song. It's for who?

0:04:04 Tom: That's a great song no what are you talking about why do you think I am in a what world are you living where I am emotionless what

0:04:13 Eli: Tom car wash fights is my answer to that question and the second answer you liked the car wash fights a little bit

0:04:21 Tom: Why didn't like the car wash fights

0:04:27 Thomas: I didn't like the car wash.

0:04:27 Tom: But like you gotta what do you do not go to work that day

0:04:27 Eli: I'm not saying you enthusiastically join I'm saying you missed the car our watch place.

0:04:36 Tom: I wasn't

0:04:36 Thomas: It was a bit miffed by the carwash fights. I love I didn's like the... I didn' prefer the carwash fights to the death. I was not...

0:04:44 Tom: Pro car wash fight but I wasn'T gonna miss a day at work I mean that's outrageous what am I to call in sick I'm not actually sick

0:04:44 Thomas: Yeah. Oh man, now I love the idea that Tom also had to win the fight just because he didn't want to miss a day of work. That was actually why he beat the shit out of everybody.

0:04:58 Tom: I lost plenty of those fights let me tell you that like I didn't know I don't want I don'T want to like fucking won every fight I was in

0:05:02 Eli: By disqualification, I crawled inside their bodies and

0:05:05 Tom: No I did not I did NOT I was 15 what

0:05:08 Thomas: Yeah yeah 15

0:05:08 Eli: Wore them. And Tom, we'll get back to why you can't appreciate music in a second. But I, Tom, I think any time over and look into your heart, don't be closed. Look into your heart. I think if any time of the last, let's say two years, I had been like, Like, hey, Tom, I got a call from your boss. Instead of work today, you can spend the afternoon fighting people your size and shape. You'd be like, that sounds pretty good.

0:05:14 Tom: The fuck is this yeah it does. I mean I've got some feelings I'd like to get out I don't know you know like I literally sit and listen to music almost every single morning I sit and listen to it is one of the things that can absolutely move me to tears by myself in a room I listen to Music all the time every day I listen to music

0:05:37 Eli: Exactly. And it's because you cannot hear music like the Postal Service.

0:05:55 Eli: It's interesting how your loved ones will introduce you to a thing years ago. And then you finally check it out and you're like, oh, it's pretty good, the person I like most in the world does it. The example for me is my wife's favorite song is the acrobat by iron and wine yeah

0:06:10 Thomas: I don't think I know that one is it on vinyl jesus oh my god

0:06:10 Tom: Okay I love iron and wine I've got an Iron and Wine album it is on vinyl yeah I've got it on cd too actually

0:06:13 Eli: The trapeze sing yeah it is on vinyl yeah you need that extra tones and so for years she's been like oh yeah no it's the trappies same swinger whatever it is by iron wine and we listened to it once or twice and I was like yeah good song whatever but I never listened to any extra iron and vine and then I'm not kidding three months ago I was oh my wife likes iron wine siri play some iron stop I know No, I was joking. Don't actually do it. She's here. I'm sorry. I was like, play some Iron One. And she did. And it was fucking great.

0:06:27 Thomas: Cd

0:06:47 Eli: And so then I had to come home. And I don't know if you've ever dealt with this, where you finally tried the thing the person says is good. And you're like, hey, that thing we talked about 10 years ago is good,

0:06:56 Thomas: Yeah you know I just don't like the name iron and wine I'm gonna say it don't like it something about it is off -putting to me not gonna listen to it yeah

0:07:05 Tom: I am looking at their discography and I absolutely have been listening to iron and wine on and off I don't think I've listened to every one of their albums but I've been listening to them for over 20 years now yeah iron and wire fucking rules absolutely fucking rules yeah one One of my favorite things that my wife does for me is curate a Spotify playlist of songs that like remind her of us. It's like a mixtape, but just a shared Spotify playlist. And it is absolutely genuinely one of my very favorite things. That she does for my, if I had like a top three list, it would be right up there. I love it so much. I check it all because she never tells me when she puts a new song on it. She just waits for me to find it like on the playlist. List. And it's like, it's like, it's like getting a gift. It's like getting a present today that I didn't expect. So yeah.

0:07:19 Eli: You know, one of the hardest things in the world is telling someone you didn't like a song they liked. You ever had to do that? Someone's like, oh, this is my favorite song. And you're like, oh, I don't like it. This thing that touched your soul, this one right here.

0:08:02 Thomas: Music is so important to me that I've actively tried to avoid these conversations like if someone's like oh I I mean what are you and I'm like oh no that's great that's fine I try to pretend I've never heard a song no I don't yeah I don' t know there's nothing

0:08:18 Eli: Sure. No, if you don't, I get it. Me and my very, very close group of magician friends realized during COVID we had never shared music and we were just hanging out on Zoom all the time and we had just finished Tiger King. So we were like, guys, let's just do a little listen party. And we all had, I don't know how four people can do it. The math doesn't seem to work out. We all had exactly opposing music tastes it was the worst hang we have ever had someone

0:08:19 Tom: Music is impossible. If I don't hear music. Yeah. Oh

0:08:46 Eli: Would play a song everyone would go that's wet dog shit and then the next person go we'd go yep that's also wet by the time we got around to me I was like okay statistically we all are about to love this song because we've run out of every other genre of music and they were like no no, no, wet dog shit.

0:09:07 Eli: One of my buddies, just out of nowhere, K-pop, just unprepared. It was K -hop from one person, sad girl music for me, obviously, sad girl music and techno, John Prine. Do you know John Prine?

0:09:05 Thomas: What weird

0:09:10 Tom: Oh, I don' I, I, that's not for me. No, no.

0:09:13 Thomas: Nah not doing it I've heard the name but I don't know oh wow

0:09:21 Eli: Yeah, he's like country, Western folky kind of, just the fucking wildest pulse from absolutely everybody. It was nuts.

0:09:27 Thomas: Dear God yeah

0:09:29 Tom: When people do that though, do you think people have an urgency to sort of impress by pulling out their like weirdest takes or they're like most obscure listens and stuff. It's just like, I don't want to put on something that everybody already knows and likes, because then I won't be the cool guy that likes indie shit or whatever. Do you think that there's some element of that that is in play? I fucking hate that.

0:09:49 Eli: No, I don't think anyone pulls out the indie shit. It. I think someone pulls out the song. I think they aren't thinking clearly. Right. Exactly. I, I think they're like, oh, I don't want to, because like, I, I think yesterday is one of the most beautiful songs in the world

0:09:56 Tom: Nobody likes the B-sides on this. Fucking stop.

0:10:04 Eli: By the Beatles, but I don't know THAT I WOULD NECESSARILY SHARE IT BECAUSE THEY'D BE LIKE, OH, A BEATLES SONG. SO YOU WANT, YOU WANNA SHARE JUST LIKE A TINY CORNER OF YOUR HEART, BUT NOT TOO MUCH OF YOUR HeART, RIGHT? LIKE I WOULD PLAY KYOTO FOR SOMEONE, BUT I WOULD NEVER PLAY a funeral for someone right I would funerals for me phoebe

0:10:22 Thomas: I don't KNOW WHAT EITHER OF THESE TWO THINGS ARE WHAT WHAT ARE THOSE OH

0:10:25 Eli: Phoebe Bridgers oh

0:10:25 Tom: I don't know. You're just saying things quickly now.

0:10:28 Thomas: UH I TRIED THAT ONCE AND I DON'T I THINK IT WAS FINE BUT I DIDN'T I WASN'T LIKE grab bites sorry I don't know I'm not

0:10:35 Tom: What is it? Phoebe Bridgers. Oh, you've mentioned this before. I don't think I've listened to her.

0:10:35 Eli: My god Phoebe Bridgers

0:10:40 Thomas: I bet she's good but I haven't like done

0:10:40 Eli: Ah ah but gentlemen do you know the only thing worse than learning that the comrade who can't listen to music and the comrade who can haven't listened to Phoebe Bridgers why it's the auto ads interrupting your podcast experience the way traditional music tries to interrupt the monologue going through Tom's head at all times which is kill Kill, kill, kill Kill. But you can make all that go away over at patreon.com/seriouspod We get a commercial-free version of every show little bonus episode every single month This month, or maybe last month I don't know, we're recording these well ahead of time Our bonus was a four-way AMA with Aislinn and Donovan, Tom's stepkids, and it was a delight, can I say it was a delightful, it was really lovely At one point I suggested suggested that Tom needed to beat Elden Ring before their mom was allowed to get her life -affirming surgery, they were not fans. But I think they'll have warmed to the idea in the next couple of weeks. We'll see. But you can check all that out over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dance. Like music ripping through the hard walls of trauma, Tom has been forced to build up around himself.

0:11:55 Eli: Rip into it.

0:11:57 Thomas: Delight are

0:12:03 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:12:05 Tom: All right eli this was another one this is another uh eli bosnick topic special that you posted in our show

0:12:10 Eli: Yes. So again, on my festival of Of things we haven't talked about. I was thinking about abortion because I was getting one. I just do it. Yeah.

0:12:18 Thomas: You gonna get one yeah I

0:12:19 Tom: Topics it's too

0:12:20 Eli: I just head into the clinic here in Jersey. Yeah.

0:12:21 Thomas: Was shopping for abortion doctors you know

0:12:21 Tom: Late man max is like five or six it's like they have rules on that now

0:12:24 Eli: No, I bring him in and they're like, no.

0:12:25 Thomas: I looked up my local

0:12:28 Eli: And I show them how quickly he does a puzzle and they still say no, which is crazy for me. Oh, can I go on a quick side tangent about Max's

0:12:32 Thomas: Abortionist but

0:12:37 Tom: No not on this show what What?

0:12:38 Thomas: Yeah yeah

0:12:38 Eli: Sick day? So this morning, Max had his very first sick day. The very first time that he was supposed to go to school and did not because he was sick. So I wake him up. I have my early day on Monday. We're recording this on a Monday. On my early Day and Monday, my class starts at 8, which means I leave my house at 7 a .m., very, very early. Anna wakes up with him. She was like, hey, he's not really eating this morning. And I was like eh, don't worry about it because I don't know if you've ever tried to make an autistic person do anything that they don't want to do. Yeah? Anything. But they physically cannot.

0:13:16 Eli: It's so funny when you talk to parents of non -autistic kids and they'll tell you the solution that they had for their non - Autistic kid where they'll be like, oh, when little scrimbrab didn't want to eat his marshmallows, I said, scrimrab, you don't want to miss Santa. My son will fucking shoot Santa in the throat and watch him die rather than eat an eighth animal cracker if he doesn't want want to. He'll eat seven instead of eight. And then that is the hardest line. So I was like, hey, he probably just doesn't feel like feeling, but they're hanging out. And the nice thing is my son, while there are communication difficulties, does have ways of communicating when he's feeling sick. And one of them is he'll just be like, I'm tired. So just like lie down in various parts of the house and then eventually throw up. So he did. And we're like, all right, buddy, you get to stay home today. He stayed home from school. But what we hadn't realized, right, is, and I know we talked about this a little bit with school vacations is like, when your kid is supposed to go to school and then doesn't, there's no greater betrayal. You're just like, no, no. You said, you said you were going to go. To the place. And now you're here, but he

0:13:36 Tom: Hard relate. Oh,

0:14:25 Eli: Felt much better. He just needed to get that one vomit out of the way. Anyways, as I was saying back to my topic. So I was doing my mind festival about the topics we haven't talked about thinking about abortion, getting getting an abortion. And I realized that while we obviously are pro -choice on this podcast and want to support a childbearing person's right to choose under all circumstances, even recreational ones, it's a weird thing, right? People are always like, oh, but what if they're just getting abortions for fun? Good. Do it. It doesn't seem like a very fun process.

0:14:55 Thomas: Yeah. Don't think it's happening meaningfully.

0:14:55 Tom: Doesn't matter to me.

0:14:56 Eli: We've talked about it, but one of the things that we haven't talked about is how to support your partner when they get an an abortion. And as someone who has done that now multiple times, I thought that would be an interesting thing for us to weigh in on.

0:15:10 Tom: Well, so you've had multiple partners that you've supported through abortions?

0:15:14 Eli: Multiple partners. So I have supported three abortions, two partners, two partners.

0:15:18 Tom: You should buy condoms. You should have bought condoms after the first abortion. I just want to throw that out there.

0:15:25 Eli: Tom, can I tell you, as someone Who tried for a kid for three months before having one, they're strong swimmers. What can I say? Bosnians get shit done. Exactly. Right right through the condom. I don't wear condoms. Those are for sailors. The point is I had two partners and then I had a friend

0:15:33 Tom: So right through the condom? Bursting through the rubber? Yeah. I

0:15:42 Eli: Who was like, Hey, I know you've done this at this point. I was like, I'm an old soul. Like, let me show him. Yeah. I get a free yogurt. It's made out of fetuses, but it's pretty good. And so, yeah, I've been in support for three abortions. Two were medication and one was like the actual medical procedure.

0:15:47 Tom: Got a punch card, actually. The next one's free. It's fine.

0:16:03 Eli: Cause she, she was not aware she was was pregnant until it was too late to get the medication. And so one of the things that I wanted to talk about is sort of like, because everyone's like, oh, I'm pro -choice, but there's not, I looked, I Googled it. There's not a ton of education out there about like, what does that look like? Right.

0:16:18 Eli: Cause you just sort of see the scary version, which is like from anti -choICE crusaders who are like a scary doctor in a dark room uses a vacuum cleaner. And then it's over. And so I want to talk about the first is most people who support their partner through a abortion, statistically speaking, are going to be doing a medically induced abortion, which means they'll take pills to have the abortion, as opposed to having to get the actual like fetus detached from the uterine wall, which is the sucky one you see in film and TV all the time with the guy in the surgery mask. Task and that is just everyone signing up for her to have the worst stomach flu she's ever had it's just you know how you have the sick test as a couple right the first time like you're sick together or the first times one of you is like genuinely sick and you have to take care of them and you see whether or not you have a good partner or a piece of shit it's that but you sign up for it you're like three two one go sick test

0:17:19 Tom: It's funny you say, I've known two people that have had the medical abortion, not the pill, but the medical procedure. They didn't describe it that way. They didn'T describe having a terrible flu. The woman who was the nanny for us, this is going to sound, I promise, I did not impregnate this lady, but The Young Lady that was our nanny, she was in a terrible relationship. She got pregnant. And the guy was a piece of shit about it and like she needed somebody to take her uh to have her abortion and so I was like yeah of course I'll take you so I took her and I did it was actually funny because on the way to planned parenthood for your appointment I was Like okay so when we go in I'm just your friend all right because I she's like 22 years old I'm not I'm Not walking like I'm her she's the nanny and like I'm yeah that's a weird look like i'M gonna get thrown out of of there beat up behind the dumpster or some shit so I was like we're just friends you know

0:17:33 Thomas: Mm -jm. Mm -kn.

0:17:37 Eli: Honestly

0:17:40 Thomas: Mm -k. Mm -kl. Mm -ml. Mm -gil. Yeah. Yeah.

0:18:09 Eli: They were probably just psyched that you were were willing to bring her in for her abortion they were like you're a good boss I mean you shouldn't have fucked her but now that you did yeah

0:18:18 Tom: So I helped support her through that I drove her there I drove home she stayed at our house uh afterwards and she didn't seem too bad off at all like I got her a hot water bottle and some tea and some warm blankets and she just kind of fell asleep woke up the next day and felt mostly fine so and my my wife had the same experience when she had her abortion

0:18:37 Eli: The the medical procedure is significantly I I think easier whatever that means

0:18:44 Tom: Oh okay I mean maybe I Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. So you're saying the pills are the, oh, okay. I misunderstood What you were Saying. I'm sorry.

0:18:47 Eli: The pills are the sign up for the stomach flu yeah because they just they just give you a little bit of poison from my medical as in my experience as a doctor they just gave you some poison and then your baby dies

0:19:01 Thomas: It can be like a really bad like period, you know, kind of day or two. Like it can be just awful, like cramping and that kind of thing.

0:19:09 Eli: I'll say this I would never I would never describe it as a period. I would just, yeah,

0:19:12 Thomas: No, I mean, it can range from like a really bad, like period cramps or, you know, that kind of thing to what you're talking about, because that's what they told us when we had the miscarriage. That was a weird conversation. Now they think about it. This stuff's so polluted by, you you know, religious bullshit. No, that's so polluted by religious bullshit that they have to be so fucking careful, you know? Like, these doctors will be like, okay, so there's no development here. There's some options. You could pretend

0:19:26 Eli: The doctor said dibs. Was it weird that he said dibbs?

0:19:44 Thomas: That you're magic and that I never said anything and just continue to do this for some reason. Or we can give you the pills that are There's essentially abortion pills to help you out. Like you have like two or three options along those lines. But one of them is very much like the you're fucking Christians and you got, you know, like it's sacred. They have to be like, you could just give it a go. You know, just like, yeah, exactly. And to be fair, yeah. To be fair. It's like, well, is there a downside for seeing maybe if somehow some you were wrong, you know, I can't remember. We were thinking about like, is their downside to waiting another week or two or something?

0:19:52 Eli: Give it a second. See if that wart turns into a baby.

0:20:22 Eli: If we wait, is there a chance we can get one of them TikTok babies who, when you see it, you press and hold not interested and you feel bad for pressing not interested, but you also know for your mental health, you need to do that.

0:20:31 Thomas: What? I don't know what this is.

0:20:28 Tom: I have no idea either, but I like it.

0:20:35 Eli: That's okay. The young ones will get it. They get it, Skibbity Ohio. Ohio.

0:20:44 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:20:47 Tom: What was your experience supporting somebody through it? Because I am curious to hear this.

0:20:51 Eli: So it was interesting because they were such wildly different scenarios, right? So the first abortion was, I had just broken up with my high school girlfriend and she was like, Hey, we need to talk. And I was like... And my dad, my dad's advice, which I still... I'll punch you in the stomach. My dad's advise, which I still stand by to this day, I think it is the best breakup advice advice in the world. No one ever listens to me, but it's the fucking, it's manna from the heavens, which is no big, long talks, which is that in the process of breaking up or after you break up, someone will go, Hey, I'd like to have a 97 hour long, terrible

0:21:06 Thomas: It was like, I'll punch you in the face if you don't.

0:21:33 Eli: Conversation about this breakup. You should not do it. I never listened to that advice for the record. I, but I should have, I should have. And so should everybody. Yeah.

0:21:42 Tom: That is genuinely great advice.

0:21:43 Thomas: Is it? I'm so curious both why this is good advice and why your dad would have that as advice. Like it's such a random thing.

0:21:51 Eli: We talked about it. I don't know. It was relationship stuff.

0:21:54 Tom: Yeah, we actually, I remember we had this conversation. Yeah.

0:21:55 Thomas: No, we've had this conversation, but why would your dad have that in his, like, like I wouldn't have that in my tool chest of like, all right, I've done this several times.

0:22:02 Eli: Full of wisdom. He was right about everything.

0:22:05 Thomas: Don't do a long time. Yeah. But why is that good advice to you? Like, Like, in what way is that good?

0:22:11 Eli: Oh, cause so the, the reason that's good advice is that those conversations are pointless and exhausting and are the times when people say the most hurtful cause they're in so much pain. They say the most hurtful stuff. They also drastically increase the chances that you're about to get back together with someone you should be broken up with. But you will argue in a circle until, out of sheer exhaustion, you'll just be like... For the long and short of it, you're like, hey, if we're made up, we will stop having this conversation. Let's make up.

0:22:47 Tom: Yeah, I think that last part is a big deal. That happened with Finn and his girlfriend the first time they broke up. He wanted to break up with her, and he went to go break up with her. She basically had a long conversation, and he came home and was no longer broken up with her. It took him a few weeks to be like, hey, wait a minute. All those problems still exist. Right.

0:23:06 Eli: Why, I don't know.

0:23:06 Thomas: My God. I just had the funniest memory. My first major girlfriend, which was in high school. I was a freshman. She was a junior. It was a big deal. I was super, super pumped about it. First major girlfriend. For some reason, and you know when you have those first relationships, they're just stupid and nothing and they're whatever. For some region, like, I can't remember, a month in or something, which is a long time for that age. For some reasons, I got the feeling that I was just like, I don't know if I want to be in this anymore. I can't remember what it was, but I was like, yeah, maybe I'm not really into this. And I remember, God, this is a vague memory. I just had it. I think I was just kind of like not really processing and kind of just avoiding her a bit. And I Remember it was so funny because I, in my mind, I was like, Yeah, I think we should break up, but I didn't really express that at all. You know, cause I was a kid. It was literally like four, 13, 14 or whatever. I thought, I Was like, I Think we should Break up in my head where that happened. And then she was upset. That makes sense.

0:24:01 Thomas: So then she was like, we got to talk. And I was like okay. And then we had a conversation and I don't remember what it was. But I sort of tried to express like, yeah, I've just been blah, blah, something. Some level of expressing it. And in my head it was like – okay, this was a conversation where she was mad about breaking up. But it was, like, you know, kind of no hard feelings. That was what happened in my hand. Head but I guess what the conversation that happened at least in her head or maybe in reality one way or the other was we got back together and then the funny thing about being a kid is I just went with it because it wasn't really that big of an impulse to begin with to break up I was just I was fucking an idiot 14 I don't know it was just like and I just remember this feeling of like oh well that would be so rough to be like oh now we have to have another conversation where I say actually, I meant to break up. And I was like, all right, I guess we'll just do just back together.

0:24:30 Tom: He got married? I'm

0:24:53 Eli: I gotta break up with her and I'll love her again.

0:24:57 Tom: Not going to make this awkward twice. That's great.

0:25:01 Eli: Eh, not dealing with that. I'll marry you rather than have that conversation again. It's exhausting.

0:25:02 Thomas: Totally forgot about that until now. I'm not Tom. Look, I'm Not Tom, but I didn't want to have another conversation.

0:25:09 Eli: Oh, no, I can't see any other ladies. She just told me. Can't see them anymore.

0:25:14 Thomas: Oh God, it's so funny. What if we were that way about relationships like as adults? Maybe some people still are. I don't know. But like, it'd be so like the amount of like arbitrariness of like, eh, I don'T want to have Another Conversation. We'll just, that's fine I'll just go with your interpretation of reality oh

0:25:29 Eli: Honestly, I know so many people that are in that marriage that

0:25:30 Tom: I was gonna say that's like so common

0:25:33 Eli: Are just like, oh, so she touched me in high school and then

0:25:39 Thomas: That's right I forgot everybody's children

0:25:39 Eli: Everything else was cheating and now we're 40. So, I don't know what to tell you.

0:25:44 Thomas: Geez anyway sorry yeah back to

0:25:45 Tom: All right eli so back back back to your

0:25:48 Eli: Yeah back to my story so the first time with my high school girlfriend we just broken up she was like we need to talk and I was like no follow my dad's advice she was like I'm pregnant and I was like whoa because now it was like well what do we do if she wants to keep I'm no longer in the we of the way so this is entirely about and I Was like okay let me know she was like no I don't want to have the kid and I WAS like okay great yeah thank god so we went and and got the pills she was super sick and it was crazy because it was interesting similarly to thomas's story we spent the weekend hanging out because she was feeling sick she was like hey they told me I'm gonna feel really sick would you mind just like coming over and hanging out and I was like yeah of course I'm here to support you you did this is my fault so let's let's do that and so we like watched movies and we hung out and then the weekend was over she was feeling better and I was like all right uh we'll see you and she was was like we're not back together and I was like definitely 100

0:26:07 Tom: Story

0:26:13 Thomas: Like oh thank god oh

0:26:45 Eli: Not we are not back together and now I want to be clear we weren't like smooching or holding hands or anything but I was just like there in her presence to help and then she was pretty sure that was gonna like bring us together again yeah but it did not so that was number one number two uh was post -college my partner at the time got pregnant and we were like oh no right Right. And she was like, definitely not. And I was like good. Okay. Like it was one, it was such an easy conversation right away. She might as well have like kicked open the door and been like time to fucking get an abortion. Right. Like we just knew right away what was interesting about that process is because we were in New York city, I had been informed by the New York post that I lived in an abortion Mecca and that it would be like, so that I would just go into Walgreens and I'd say, sir, one baby murder, please. And he would like the way an old timey bartender has a shotgun under the bar. He would just do that to my girlfriend, but with abortion. But it was actually really fucking tough to happen. The place that we went to had protesters. And so they were like, oh, yeah, no, there are people who hang out front of our building all day and will like scream at you about being

0:26:58 Tom: Bring it closer together yeah

0:27:58 Eli: A murderer. So if you want, you can go to the Starbucks down the street and we will cover you with umbrellas and walk you into the building because they also film and take pictures of everyone who walks in and post them on the website. Because if women know that they're being photographed and they're hiding it from their husbands or boyfriends, they won't get an abortion.

0:28:00 Tom: It's delightful that's

0:28:19 Thomas: Oh my god jesus fucking christ death penalty for these people

0:28:23 Eli: Thank you so much because that was the first time I was like, oh, how has nobody ever like murdered them? And she was like,

0:28:28 Thomas: Yeah I was just gonna going to ask you guys to, I was trying not to interrupt your story, but I was like, what if this was your wife and you were having an abortion? Like, like what if it was someone you still, you know, obviously actively cared about to the extent you care about your wife? How would you not run these people over with your car?

0:28:39 Tom: So chill yeah

0:28:41 Eli: It's insane. It's truly like I had a moment of just being like, oh, because they were there. They had to be across the street and they had like a big sign and they were holding cameras. I could see kind of through the umbrella girls. Let me tell you, these ladies, umbrella ninjas, they had, like, three each and they were coordinated doing, like flag patterns, like the marching band kids. It was very impressive. But what was interesting was it has never been so easy for me to be violent. Like if if Time Stop Jesus had come down

0:29:11 Thomas: Yeah, I might kill those people. That'd be tough yeah

0:29:14 Eli: And been like, want to fight him? I would have been like everybody, all of them. I'll fight all ofهم. Again, this is not like I'm good at fighting thing. It could have been Dwayne the Rock Johnson on the other side. And I would be like, well, Dwayn, we agree to disagree. Bring it on, big fella. But honestly, the thing that sort of controlled it was I knew my partner needed my support and I knew that if I did anything or said anything, it would upset them. Now, me and my friends later, when we were the Flying Spaghetti Brigade, which is a story for another day, we went and harassed them so much that we got arrested.

0:29:49 Eli: And that made me really happy that they actually called the cops and the cops were like, you have to leave them alone. And I was like, it's my religion. And they were like、I'm going to arrest you. You. And I was like, okay. But that's a story for another day. Flying spaghetti brigade. God, we did so much fun shit. I miss it. So another day, so we went in and we got the pills and then we left. They gave them there too. Cause you couldn't get them for some reason in pharmacies. Like you had to get them right there. So they did an in -house pharmacy. It was this crazy thing. The third one was a not cash money situation. So this was a friend who had been assaulted assaulted and became pregnant from that assault and did not know until it was past the time that they could get medical abortion. They, I don't want to say they were approached. I certainly don't wanna put words in their mouth. They came from a much more conservative family than me.

0:30:11 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:30:49 Eli: And the relationship they were in was weird. Their partner was not supportive. I think I want to tell this person's story. When this person was assaulted, they had been like at a party hanging out with these people and their partner was extremely not cool about like, you know, that's kind of your fault. You know what I'm saying?

0:31:14 Eli: Yeah. And so they sort of came to me because they were still figuring out how to have a good conversation with that partner. They eventually broke up with them which by the way was the right move but like at the time going to that partner and saying I am pregnant from this thing happening would have made the fight worse and so they were like yeah this is the person who came to my apartment in the middle of the night and the cops I've told you this story right I'm smiling at the lady cop and she thinks that I'm the one who has assaulted her and she's gonna I haven't told you guys this story oh

0:31:14 Tom: Oh, God.

0:31:40 Thomas: Jesus

0:31:44 Tom: Oh, my God. No, I don't remember this.

0:31:46 Thomas: Christ I think so but it's been a long time

0:31:49 Eli: Okay I'll tell the quick version I know I've talked at other places I am a freshman at nyu and this friend calls me, we went to the same high school and she's like, Hey, something really bad has happened. Can you come get me? And she's 200th street, but I'm Eli, baby Eli. And I'm like, Oh, a chance for heroism to echo anything that I think about my dad. A hundred percent. I'm in there. So I run up, I get her. There's this weird moment where they don't want to let her leave. They're having an argument about letting her leave and in a moment of fantastic insight, I just go in the room and I go, hey, do you want me to call the cops like we talked about? And they were like, fine, you can leave. And so we just left. She comes back to my dorm room and tells me what happened, which pretty obvious what happened, right? But we come in and go to my RA. My RA had not signed up for that, by the way. Gosh, bless Joni Hotskins, this sweet dude who just wanted to do hookah bars and not have to knock on our doors too loud. When I came in and I was like, like, hey, my friend got sexually assaulted a hundred blocks away and I brought her here and now I'm asking you what to do. And he was like, I'm a sophomore. But we figured it out. We called a grownup. The grownup came in, the grownup called the cops and then they separated us. And I'm feeling pretty good because I did a good guy thing and it was hard. And I also went into a room full of scary people and I said a cool thing. And so I feel pretty good. And there's a lady cop in the room with me and there's other lady cops in the other room with her and they're interviewing her and I'm sort of, I'm nervous. So I'm smiling and talking to the lady cop and she's not having any of it. And I'm like, why are you not being cool? I did a good, like, I remember it's just, this is what piece of shit I am is I was like, you know, I am kind of a hero. I feel like I should be being treated a little bit like a hero here. Totally take away all the credit of me doing a good thing. And she's like, stop talking to me. And I was like wow, Jack, man, man, cops really are mean, gosh.

0:33:50 Eli: And then she comes out after being interviewed and the cop who has been sitting with me is like, and this is the guy? And she's like, oh, no, no. This is my friend who went and got me. And I saw the gears turn for her where she was like, oh, okay, this rapist hasn't been sitting here being like, you haven't seen Kung Fu Panda 2. Let me tell you, it surpasses Kung Fu Panda in all the right ways. The characters grow. Friends become enemies. Enemies become friends. Gary Oldman is fantastic. I'm telling you, get into it. So this is the aftermath of that situation. It's a month or so later. And so this needed to be a medical procedure. We went to the New York place. I was like, don't worry. I know. Or no, this is before the New York place. She had called the New York place and they said, okay, you can't get that here, but you can go. I think it was Yonkers. I was a city kid at that point who all versions of New York that weren't my hometown were just elsewhere, like Long Island and Yonkers and Albany were all the same city. It was just not New York City. But they were like, you should go to blah, blah. You can take a train to there and then you could take an Uber from that train station to there to get the medical procedure done. She was like, that's a lot. Will you come with me? And I was like absolutely. So we went and did the thing. And yeah, it was as someone who had experienced one so far and knew how sick she was, I was like, hey, do they tell you about getting sick? She was like no, they said there might be some pain or just go. I was there. Well, my first I mean, I don't know what's going on, but she was pretty sick. So I'm here if you're sick, like, just let you know. But she was a hundred. I mean not fine, but she was fine. Right.

0:35:29 Eli: Physically afterwards. And I don't know. I just think that it's something that men don't talk about enough, which is like how to be supportive in those moments and how to support a choice, in a way that will make a person feel genuinely empowered yeah

0:35:42 Tom: I want to say like one of the things I didn't know I this is maybe foolish I don't know but like I just up until like I had talked to Hayley about her experience then had the experience like helping somebody out through theirs I just thought you could go and get like it's like doctor's appointment you have to go and make an appointment and then you come back for your next appointment because the right I think for so long has sort of like painted this idea of abortion on demand. And then it's like, well, I want abortion on the man. It's like what's still a doctor's appointment. You don't just walk in and be like, hello, one abortion, please. And they're like, great, take a number.

0:36:16 Tom: And there's like a fucking deli thing. And you're like a 36, you sit there and you wait. And then they, it's not, it's just a doctor. It's a doctor appointment because of course it is. And so like, I was something I never even thought to think of, you know, like, I was like, Oh, as soon as you realize it, it's like, well, of course, it is nothing else makes any sense at all how could they possibly plan their day if they weren't taking appointments so that was a stupid thing that I didn't even think about right yeah

0:36:39 Thomas: Also love, though, the idea, the abortion on demand. I'm always like, well, what else would it be? Now, abortions, surprise abortions. Only when you're least suspected. That's when we will give you an abortion. Yeah, it's going to be when you need one, I think.

0:36:54 Tom: Right so like what is your advice because I think the only thing that I learned was just like yeah because like your advice obviously is don't wear a condom I mean that's yeah condoms are yeah don't wear condoms yeah

0:36:59 Thomas: Abstinence.

0:37:03 Eli: Condoms feel weird don't wear them they're

0:37:06 Tom: Yeah because this feels like a situation where it's like all right like she's in charge right I feel like we've talked about this a little bit when your partner tells you she's pregnant. It's like, all right, cool. I will gauge your reaction and my reaction will match your reaction. And like, if you seem happy, I also will seem happy because to not would be ghoulish, you know? And if you, so like, if you're having an abortion, like, are you like matching the energy? Is that the, yeah.

0:37:14 Eli: Gross right I would say matching the energy and also understanding that what that person needs for me maybe this isn't like general purpose advice let me swing it at you gents and you could tell me in all three of those situations situations, there was a little bit of conflict for the person involved. Even the girlfriend who was like, let's get this thing done. There was a moment where it was like hey like is this what I want? And I think it's important in those moments to say that the choice they are making is valid. They're making a good choice and you agree with it. I think in our rush sometimes to say it's your choice, it's your choice. We forget that sometimes our friends, especially our loved ones if we are in love with that friend at that given time, need us to say, I support your choice and I think you're making a good one.

0:38:18 Tom: So I have a question for you guys, since you're significantly younger than I am, but like, I'm a boomer, right? Like, so Like, I feel like this is like a date, right. Like the man should pay, right, or is there this is one of the situations you go dodge yeah right you gotta pay

0:38:28 Eli: Oh, no, you gotta pay. You gotta pay, that's 100 % your fault. You gotta fucking pay.

0:38:31 Tom: Right like you you pay for that right

0:38:33 Thomas: I go, Dutch, you cover the abortion you got. I cover the abortions I got.

0:38:39 Eli: There you go.

0:38:39 Thomas: It's like, well, she ordered the abortion plus lobster. I feel like that wasn't fair. You know, like I should, like

0:38:44 Tom: We have told our kids all of our kids that like they have two unlimited budgets they have unlimited books you want a book you can buy a book on 10 books we'll buy you 10 books unlimited book budget and an unlimited abortions budget you or your partner needs an abortion awesome that's on tom you come to me I'll take care of

0:39:05 Thomas: Physically, like you're putting on a glove. You're like, yep, got this.

0:39:07 Tom: It hey snap

0:39:09 Eli: I got it. Aislinn, if you'll join me in the car wash.

0:39:16 Tom: I told the boy like it's like yeah we want you guys to come to us if there's ever like an issue if you're nervous if something happens if someone's late if her parents like you know for the boys like if her parents aren't like understanding of the situation like she can come to us too like we will be 100 a resource to make sure that like Like, nobody's making a choice they don't want to make, you know?

0:39:38 Tom: And, like, for teenagers, it's like, there's really only one choice that I would support.

0:39:37 Eli: Yeah, yeah.

0:39:43 Tom: I would not be supportive of, I am in high school and I'm having this baby. Like, I just would be like, hmm, I'm going to argue with you about that. Yeah.

0:39:47 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. And it's such a good time just in the world too.

0:39:48 Eli: Now's the best time to have a kid. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good time in the world. It's good time for me.

0:39:55 Tom: But let me ask you this question, Eli. How much is it appropriate to voice, because, like obviously you don't want to harangue and harass somebody into doing something. Like, let's set that off to the side. But like how much of your if you're with somebody how much of it is like all right well we should talk and decide together yeah

0:40:12 Eli: So this is where I may defer from the cultural norm, which is like, it's her decision, it is her decision. I think you should and can advocate for your reproductive freedom. You can't impose your will on another person's body, but you can absolutely say, I did not have sex with the intention to have children. I understand that I don't get to control your behavior, but I want you to know I am not having a child from this, right? Right. You might have a child and then there are legal recourse for how I will support that child. And obviously we'll do our best to be friendly and, you know, figure out a way to make that child better. But this is not an opportunity for us to have a baby together. And I think you can and should advocate for that.

0:40:53 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. I'm just remembering that too. And Tom was like, no, you become a father that day. And now

0:40:54 Tom: I remember we talked about that a little bit yeah I don't I don' t agree with that position at all yeah but we had that we had we had whole episode so I don''t

0:41:01 Thomas: Let's argue about it again.

0:41:04 Eli: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Mogan.

0:41:07 Clip: DEAR OLD DADS

0:41:13 Eli: All right, gentlemen, before we go, I finally got a job at a bakery. What can I say? I needed the dough.

0:41:21 Tom: Wanna

0:41:24 Thomas: Good times

0:42:10 Tom: Oh god well I didn't like the car wash fights

0:42:14 Eli: Schemo, hee -haw, me -hawk.

0:42:17 Tom: That's nothing what that's you're you're

0:42:17 Thomas: That's nothing what you're doing now is nothing do you know who the smashing pumpkins are

0:42:17 Eli: It's the same. Beautiful, you're beautiful, it's true.

0:42:25 Tom: What the fuck is this