DOD260: You're a Lefty but Your Kid Wants to Join the Military

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that definitely should read some reviews before it chooses a date movie. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:34 Thomas: Why that's so specific.

0:00:41 Eli: How was I supposed to know what Schindler's List was a list of? I thought it was about grocery shopping!

0:00:46 Thomas: A list of good things about his wife, I don't know, no,

0:00:50 Eli: I'm pro -choice. Why would Sophie's Choice be a sad thing?

0:00:53 Tom: Have you guys seen the movie Kids?

0:00:56 Eli: Yes.

0:00:57 Tom: Kids is not a good date movie, like it is an aggressively bad date movie and like when I was in high school, there was this girl I had a crazy crush on. We kind of had this like will they won't they thing going on we were very much friends and she would kind of flirt and then kind of back off and it was all very weird but like we were hanging out in my buddy's basement and like we're sitting there and she was like leaned up against me and like I had my arm around her and I'm like hey like this is getting comfortable you know like finally and then my buddy said hey let's watch a movie and I am like yeah great idea and the motherfucker puts in kids I

0:00:57 Thomas: I haven't,

0:00:59 Eli: Nope. Sure isn't. Hey man, why do you have kids?

0:01:30 Thomas: Maybe

0:01:31 Tom: Don't even know like maybe he'd rented it or whatever I don' t even know this is my

0:01:34 Thomas: He keeps it around to cock block when he needs to,

0:01:36 Tom: You know what I thought to myself later like that's the same fucking guy that shot me in the eye like maybe I should

0:01:42 Eli: The two worst things that I've ever...

0:01:42 Thomas: You have a nemesis and you keep him around for some reason?

0:01:45 Tom: Have do you know I didn't work out was that which is fine but like homeboy blocked me so bad like I'm like 30 minutes into this movie I'm not gonna do it again I'm gonna well I feel like I should move my arm this doesn't feel good right now like it

0:01:56 Eli: Yep. Yeah, this is definitely not the time for the old yawn -a -roo.

0:02:00 Tom: Just yeah right like she sat up straighter I sat up straiter I'm Like I'll get a drink for us like it was fucking awkward

0:02:07 Eli: I'm actually gonna pull some school

0:02:09 Tom: It was the worst worst fucking movie for fucking 18 year old me you

0:02:09 Eli: Desks in so that we're just entirely separated. I'm here to learn!

0:02:18 Eli: Do you think your secret rival feels bad that the universe has done so much more punishment to you than he ever could? Right. Do you like he writes in his Salieri diary? He's like, I shot out his eye and I prevented Stephanie from giving him that heege in my basement. But this morning I learned he broke his own neck by waking up. What to do, diary? What to doing?

0:02:42 Thomas: It'd be weird if Amadeus turns into Salieri, like trying to help out Mozart. Like he's like, God, I fucking feel so bad for this guy.

0:02:47 Eli: Yeah, that's what happens. He's gonna nurse you in the last moments of your life it

0:02:51 Tom: Know yeah just be like I'm so sorry I'm so sorry nice

0:02:59 Eli: Is what it is

0:03:00 Thomas: Well, this is also oddly specific. I don't know. I wanted to tell this story. I almost did it as This is an end of show story, but I think everybody should have a chance to laugh at me or us. So Valentine's Day, had a pretty good Valentine's day. For Thomas, it was like a Tom. It was like, imagine on a scale of me, I did like a tom level

0:03:13 Eli: Yeah what'd you do remembered lydia's name on the very first try

0:03:21 Thomas: Valentine's today. I remembered it. Yeah, I remembered. It was Valentine's. I, ahead of time, ordered some super fancy chocolates and got an extremely nice card. No, I, I. Yeah. No, those are lenders. It's so funny. I made the joke because one of the kids got some of those for Valentine's Day. I was like, oh, look, lenders! Lydia got a kick out of it.

0:03:30 Tom: I seize

0:03:31 Eli: A fancy brand like lind perhaps an exotic unknown brand no

0:03:49 Thomas: The kids don't listen. No, I'm just kidding. So here we are, we're having a great Valentine's Day. We're in Valentine's evening territory, which, you know, we'll keep it a PG -13 show, but things are great. Lydia's looking hot. We're all just having a good time. We're going to hang out, maybe watch a date movie, you know, watch something romantic, get in the mood. Just everybody's having a great time. Vibes are off the charts. We're having good time and we're like, okay, we'RE doing this thing, which we do every year, which WE try to watch all the best picture nominees and WE usually get about six of them. Them. That's about how many we can do in a given year. We just don't have time. But we usually get through six of them. We love doing it. And we've seen a few of them and we've both wanted to watch Hamnet as our next one because we love Jessie Buckley already. Jessie Buckle is one of the best actors on earth. One of the best human actors that there is.

0:03:51 Eli: They listen you're

0:04:39 Tom: Who is this just yeah

0:04:39 Thomas: She's incredible. Jessie Buckle. She is a little obscure. The stuff I've seen her in is like, did you ever watch the show version of Fargo yeah the show it's really good the show is also

0:04:49 Tom: Uh no the show no uh -uh

0:04:52 Eli: Alive so I know you didn't see I'm thinking of ending things things

0:04:55 Thomas: Good oh wait I think I haven't seen that

0:04:57 Eli: You haven't seen I'm thinking of ending things

0:04:58 Thomas: I bet you better give me more you better Give Me More Jesse Buckley to watch oh she's so good oh oh the daughter is that uh was that the name of it the daughter okay

0:05:01 Eli: Oh you gotta not see I'm thinking of endings uh I got one I got one that tom saw tom she's in do little the

0:05:09 Tom: Yeah I haven't seen too little

0:05:11 Thomas: What Doolittle

0:05:12 Eli: 2020 movie with robert downey jr where he's dr do

0:05:15 Thomas: Oh dear god she is okay I

0:05:15 Tom: I have not seen that no oh my god yeah

0:05:18 Eli: Little it's fucking incredible

0:05:18 Thomas: haven'T seen that shit oh wow anyway she's incredible and And the vibe of the, Eli, I know you know it. Tom, do you know Hamnet at all? Have you seen the, okay.

0:05:28 Tom: I I mean I looked it up when you told me about it so yeah

0:05:31 Thomas: So, oh, but prior to this, Lydia and I don't have time. We also don't want to know anything about the movies ahead of time. Like, I love watching movies cold.

0:05:38 Eli: Yeah it's a spoiler from the 1500s there t -doc

0:05:41 Thomas: No, yeah, it's, you don't wanna know, like, any, anything. Like ,I don't wannanow, like Sinners. Like, I didn't wanna know anything about it. They're much better when you watch a movie and you're just totally surprised. It's just much better. And this is some of the best art.

0:05:52 Tom: Was it this time?

0:05:52 Thomas: It really is some of the best art that there is and I really love going into it cold it's it's so fun but you know we've seen the posters we've vaguely seen the concept both of us I think we're under the impression that this was like a shakespeare in love type thing you know like a like a rom -com somehow involving shakespearein some way with yeah it's just her she's beautiful beautiful really

0:06:13 Eli: Poster I am examining the poster they are they are close together physically but they do

0:06:22 Thomas: I don't well jesse buckley the posters I've seen it just is her looking I'll admit it's not her looking like happy happy but it's like it's in the rom -com you

0:06:30 Eli: Not closely.

0:06:34 Tom: I could see how you could look at this poster and be like, yeah, maybe they look, I don't know, like content or about to take a nap or like cuddling with each other. Like, no, I think you could like a passing glance, a passing glance with no knowledge. I think You could.

0:06:41 Thomas: Know hold on which one which one let me see here

0:06:41 Eli: I don't think you can look at it closely. Yeah.

0:06:48 Eli: A Smithian glance at this. You're like, yeah, no,

0:06:50 Thomas: That is a very much in the rom -com realm okay it's It's in the romantic movie area. It's a man and a woman near each other. Okay.

0:06:53 Tom: I don' t see calm out of that, but I see two people cuddiling. Yeah.

0:06:57 Eli: They're close. And they're in physical proximity. I get it.

0:07:04 Thomas: And yeah. And maybe we both happen to make heart eyes when we see Jesse Buckley. So we did the rest of, maybe that was in our heads that we're like, yeah, of course you're doing the heart eyes of Jesse Buckleys. And just for fun, I know that the surprise is kind of blown, but just to, just to give you an idea of how our romantic, you know, like super romantic Valentine's day lingerie, all this stuff goes. Afterwards, I read Wikipedia and was like, I'm going to read you these two reviews. Oh, man. Variety declared the film to be, quote, so emotionally raw as to be almost excruciating at times.

0:07:04 Tom: There are two people.

0:07:40 Thomas: And then this other one, somebody from Vulture described Hamnet as, quote devastating, maybe the most emotionally shattering movie I've seen in years.

0:07:51 Tom: That's even worse than I

0:07:51 Thomas: It's so good it's so good we are watching this movie and we're all you know snuggled up it's all hot and then we proceed to cry for an hour straight together just full on bawling for an hour together like okay and then it was great movie love the movie and then were like I guess we'll go to bed Oh, God, it was so fucking funny.

0:08:09 Tom: Thought this is so

0:08:14 Eli: Yeah. Kids come downstairs. They see her makeup's all messed up. They're like I guess someone's having a nice Valentine's Day. Arlo why are you doing that I listen to the podcast you said it's

0:08:27 Tom: Great oh my god that's fucking great that's so great oh god I love

0:08:31 Thomas: Oh, so good. Oh, man. If you don't, if you, yeah, it's sad.

0:08:37 Eli: Hard to think of a more boner killing movie than hamnet that doesn't directly involve sexual assault

0:08:46 Thomas: Yeah, the doesn't directly involve the Holocaust. Yeah. Yeah.

0:08:48 Eli: If I was trying not to come hamnet might be one of the movies I think about

0:08:56 Tom: It it won't help but I'll give it a whirl yeah

0:08:57 Thomas: Oh, so good. And we were totally clueless. This was not in any way foreseen by us. It was so funny. Yeah.

0:08:58 Eli: It won't help yeah

0:09:03 Tom: Hey thomas you know your policy if I don't want to learn anything maybe for valentine's day that policy should go on the back burner you know

0:09:09 Eli: You make a little exception there we

0:09:10 Thomas: No, no. I actually, I actually love it. I wouldn't change it. I think it was great. It wasn't bad. Look, we have sex all the time. It's fine. It was a, yeah, yeah. No. But this is one of those stories we'll always have. You know, it was, it was so funny, God, we were just like devastated by this. Oh, so emotionally raw as to be almost excruciating.

0:09:17 Tom: You know for valente's day we don't know anything about the restaurant we both got food poisoning it was terrific I loved it yeah we're shitting our brains out for six hours but we did it together

0:09:25 Eli: Have sex all the time

0:09:32 Tom: Remember the time we trauma bonded over that movie that was awesome god I can't wait to never watch

0:09:41 Thomas: Oh, it's so fucking good. Don't watch it. You won't care.

0:09:41 Eli: Don't watch it

0:09:51 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:09:52 Eli: Can I say something when you have a mental illness there's sometimes you just have thoughts that when you say them out loud you're like oh that's not a good thought and then you just deal with it and fix it I haven't enjoyed a movie in such a long time because every movie I just go oh this is like meets because like when

0:10:06 Thomas: Oh, that's rough.

0:10:14 Tom: Oh yeah well gammon's probably killing him for you

0:10:16 Eli: When I was a young person, I would see a movie, right? I was like a really a movie connoisseur and I took in all the movies and I got my mind blown by Chinatown for the first time, fucking curse of the, and then I would watch this movie and I saw this classic and then they sort of absorbed them all. And then I was caught up on movie history so I could watch modern movies and I would get all the inferences, right. Because when you watch great filmmakers, like,

0:10:41 Thomas: Sorry. You thought you had to watch all the movies so you'd understand the other movies? Oh, I haven't seen movies one through million. Yeah.

0:10:45 Eli: Yeah, you get like a film education so that you know all the exactly yeah you get a film education so you can go oh this is so cool this is just like when they did this and you know if you especially if you nerd out on movies and you study like the weimar stuff you can be like oh this istuch a salute to this kind of filmmaking that kind of filmmaking and I watched modern movies for a while and then the modern movies kind of started to get like a little samey and so you go through a phase where you're like ah movies these days not as good as they could be but you know some good performances some good performances but now I just I can't watch them my brain diagnoses the movie and then it's like physically painful to try to make it through the rest of the

0:10:50 Tom: I did not like watching movies for years after doing everyone's a critic for we did everyone's critic sporadically. I can't even imagine after doing GAM where you have to like watch a movie and think about a movie, turn it into a work product, make jokes about it.

0:11:45 Thomas: Jeez. What the fuck is wrong with you guys? I don't know what's wrong with it. No, not this experience in any way, shape, or form. It's weird.

0:11:53 Tom: I stopped reading for pleasure after I got my lit degree for years. I couldn't read for pleasure. After I got my lit degree for God, almost a decade before I could just read a book without thinking about the book so heavily all the time. Cause you just sort of build up this skillset and these rules and and these sort of, like, tools, and it's, like what you're doing while you're watching it, I wonder if that has any bearing on it for you, it's like, when you watch a movie, like a lot of times, you're just activating a different part of your brain, like not the, like enjoyment part, but just the, work part

0:12:27 Thomas: Always have that part of my brain going. Maybe that's the difference. I always had that part of my mind going and that's why I hate 98 % of things, but there's actually still really good things out there if you power past that. Like, I'm sorry, I don't buy the idea that Eli, you've mastered movie making so you know every single movie in the right.

0:12:35 Eli: Movie oh no let me let me be very clear I don't think this is a movies thing I don'T THINK THEY STOPPED MAKING GOOD MOVIES TO BE CLEAR I'M TALKING ABOUT A THING THAT MY BRAIN DOES

0:12:51 Thomas: Oh, okay. That's kind of what it came across as.

0:12:55 Eli: YEAH NO I THINK SINNERS probably was on to

0:12:55 Thomas: Oh, gotcha. Okay. Yeah, it's so fucking good.

0:12:59 Eli: Something I'm pretty sure I don't yeah whatever the black guys are vampires or something boring no I'm saying that this thing that happens in my head I was wondering if it's just a part of getting older because you know what I think about a lot you remember that south park episode where all they can see and hear is shit and so they start drinking jack

0:13:18 Thomas: The hell are you talking? About.

0:13:18 Tom: What

0:13:20 Eli: Daniels stan just can't every movie he sees is just someone shitting and all music he hears is it's just someone shitting.

0:13:21 Thomas: I didn't watch South Park.

0:13:26 Eli: So he starts drinking Jack Daniels. And I feel like that's the experience I have is like, I see, I'll give you a great example. One something after another, the Paul Thomas Anderson movie. I watched that movie and my brain was like, this is a well -made movie. I'm going to say 11 minutes into that movie, my brain went, the professional, this movie is the professional, but with different actors. You remember the professional? It's going to be that. And I was like okay well let's give it a chance let's see we've got some different actors the story's not exactly the same it's just an older guy and a younger lady like let's get a second and then people would talk and I'd go that's like when they were in the professional it's like the professional but I already know what's gonna happen because I saw the professional I can't make it through I can enjoy I'm just I find myself and this is genuinely true I find myself staring at movies and going it's really nice that even when you're not paying because because I don't do stuff on my phone anymore because I Don't Have TikTok and I Don'T Have Social Media. I think this thought genuinely three or four times a week. It's nice that movies keep going even if you're not paying attention.

0:13:37 Thomas: Really? You didn't like that? Oh my God. Yeah. I think that might be your, I think I might be a mental illness. I don't know. Yeah, yeah.

0:14:39 Eli: It's just a mental illness thought. Okay, never mind then. Retracted.

0:14:41 Tom: I don't know well, but I will say it like I think that if you are in the zone of like trope hunting and archetype hunting then like I don't know man you're gonna pick out those features

0:14:50 Thomas: And here's what I was going to say, Tom. Eli is someone who is able to convince himself that I had a black wife and I was from LA for a while.

0:14:56 Tom: Immediately wait what that is true eli does just straight make shit up

0:14:57 Thomas: So I think what he's, what he is actually doing, what he actually, Eli just decided, to be fair to Eli, that me having a black Black Wife was a bit he was doing. The me being from LA was not a bit. He was doing, he just decided I was from LA. I never said I was familiar. No one ever said that he just decided it. And it took a while for me to convince him otherwise.

0:15:15 Tom: Yeah that's my favorite part

0:15:15 Thomas: And, uh, I think what might be happening, Eli is you decide that something is like another thing, and then you don't see what's happening. Cause you've just decided that. And you aren't actually even watching the movie.

0:15:24 Tom: Okay I feel like that's hard true yeah I feel Like that's Hard True yeah

0:15:27 Eli: That's definitely true. That's what it is. Because my brain just goes, we figured it out. And then it moves on. Can't pay attention. Exactly great

0:15:32 Thomas: Can't pay attention anymore. Oh man. One battle after another other was the most, I have never been so anxious during the movie. I thought it was so incredible at maintaining the fucking anxiety. Never have I been so anxious during a movie. It was incredible. Great movie.

0:15:33 Tom: Like I know how this magic trick works yeah yeah

0:15:47 Eli: Movie great movie

0:15:47 Thomas: Man, I'm sad that you can't experience stuff. I'm actually sad.

0:15:50 Eli: Yeah because I want to be very clear for the record this is not I think movies are bad this is like is this a part of growing

0:15:59 Thomas: It's definitely part of it because I do think the funny thing that happens too is that, I was thinking about this for kids. Whenever kids are starting to consume art, they're going to think all that stuff is like the first that that they've seen, you know? And it's really interesting that like because we all went on that journey where like the first time I saw certain narrative like structures where it's like well the flashback turns into the thing that becomes you know like when I the first Time I saw like I can't name it because I'm not a good media fucking uh yeah I don't I didn't have an education in it but just those patterns you notice where it'S like the first time you saw that the flashbacks tied in and was actually said a thing about the future in a way it'S Like wow that's fucking mind -blowing and you're like that's the first great version of And then you realize like, oh, but they just keep doing these things forever. Like they keep using these tools. And then your kids are like, well, now this is the best version of it. And you're like, no, that's a shit version of that. That's someone copied.

0:16:11 Eli: Old well

0:16:52 Tom: I also think part of it for enjoyment depends on what it is in a story that you enjoy like because if you boil things down you're like nah it's just a hero's journey you know it's like well okay but it can be told really well it can have depth of character like what is it about a storythat moves you if it's if it is like I'm only really moved if an original plot element occurs you're fucked like I do think you're

0:17:01 Thomas: Yeah, it's just a hero. Yeah yeah yeah no that's that's fuck and I'm the opposite of that I I don't care what's happening in the movie it's like I mean it matters but like it's for me it's just the direction it's the acting it's everything the choices that are made I just love it I absolutely love it so much

0:17:28 Tom: Fuckt I feel like that's why I cannot and I cannot I cannot watch an action movie I cannot make my way through I just there's nothing in my life more boring than an action move

0:17:34 Thomas: Yeah I really care yeah only a few of them dude what about hold on what about the um well hold on okay I guess we gotta do our first break but what about um the The Mad Max. I almost said again, the new Mad Max, which was from 10 years ago, literal 10 years ago, the New Mad Max? I know, but in my mind, someone called me out on this last time. I said the New Bad Max, and I was talking about the one from 2016.

0:17:44 Tom: I haven't seen it I haven' seen it

0:17:51 Eli: No because there's a new mad max now fury road not furiosa yeah

0:17:59 Thomas: Yeah, and they're like, oh, you said there was a New Mad Max that came out 10 years ago, and I killed myself. I was like, god damn it. I can't even. I love it. That's my favorite action movie, I think, ever. It's so good.

0:17:59 Tom: Angry boulevard

0:18:05 Eli: Yeah that movie was so good though great movie such a great movie

0:18:11 Thomas: You should try that, Tom. Just out of curiosity, Tom, I'm curious if it would work. Oh, what's your favorite?

0:18:14 Eli: Second best action movie the rundown

0:18:20 Thomas: The Rundown.

0:18:15 Tom: Yeah what's the first with the rock I knew that you liked that you know who else loves that movie cecil loves the out of that movie this is the moment like you guys can be best us friends

0:18:24 Thomas: What?

0:18:21 Eli: The rock and stifler It's a great movie. We had Cecil on cam to review it. Yeah, we had him on it to review it for a bonus episode. It's great. It's got Christopher Walken and the head henchman. You know how you always need the head Henchman to have an interesting or cool weapon or way of fighting?

0:18:32 Tom: Do you really oh god he fucking loves that movie

0:18:46 Eli: Head Henchmen in the rundown? Whip guy. Very beginning of the movie, Dwayne Drock Johnson's like, I don't use guns. You know what he does at the end of the moving? He uses guns.

0:18:49 Tom: Oh it's kind of

0:18:57 Eli: This is pretty great

0:18:57 Tom: Great oh thanks for spoiling it 30 year old movie all

0:19:03 Thomas: Well, anything worse than that fucking movie.

0:19:04 Eli: But gentlemen do you know the only thing worse than feeling as though you've seen every movie and can never be awakened artistically ever again why? It's the auto ads the artistic experience of seeing every movie hearing all pieces of music and just riding in the car to silence but you can make all of that go away especially the riding in a car to silence part over at patreon.com/Dear Old Dads where you'll get a commercial free version of every single episode with a little parenting story at the end. Last week, we talked about Tom's kids nailing Valentine's Day, and you can hear all about it over at patreon.com/Dear Old Dads. Like time into my enjoyment of anything and anyone. Rip into it. Wow.

0:19:52 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:19:54 Tom: Right so I want to do this uh email we got an email here from dat dat dat that's what it says that dat dat dot 298 by the way so not to be confused with the other dat dat dots hey long time listener of your excellent podcast here thank you so much for all the laughs education and parasocial friendships if possible I'd love to hear an episode on your views of people in the military or law enforcement. I grew up in a military family, defaulted to career as an army officer and federal agent. I'm generally proud of the work that I've done in my career, like defeating ISIS and investigating scammers. But being on the political left, I don't feel like I really belong anywhere. My work friends lean conservative. There are no DSA chapters at Fort Bragg. Among leftists, I feel like a stick out as a fit, clean -cut, straight -edge white guy who alternately cages or bombs innocent people for a living. This attitude seems to bear out in

0:20:04 Eli: Doxed.

0:20:42 Thomas: Well, do you?

0:20:44 Eli: Yeah.

0:20:44 Tom: My favorite podcasts, dear old dads mentioned here, in which people like me are treated either as mysterious creatures or depraved sadists. If I had a time machine, I'd have done law or medicine. Unfortunately, with kids to support and being most of the way through to two lucrative pensions, it's just not practical for me to change careers or lifestyles. But now that I have children, I'm also conflicted on whether to recommend my careers to my children. I plan to make good use of my retirement, but for now it's hard not to feel conflicted and isolated. Am I off base? I see what you did there. About how I'm viewed in your social circles. How would you handle it if your children wanted to join the military or a federal criminal law enforcement agency?

0:21:24 Thomas: Well, OK, this is a great question. Sorry to jump in, but I think this is a genuine concern. And I have actually a lot of empathy for this because it is true that our circles are talking about all walks of life involved in anything like this as as being like pretty evil I get why he would get that impression I will say the military fuck no I don't I can't think of for me anyway I cannot think of a good way or use of whatever of joining the military I will Say that I've made this point I want to make it again on here because I make it on obviously the shows that are more like law stuff but we can't simultaneously be super duper upset about the Epstein files and say, why isn't anyone done anything? Why isn't anyone done? And also say there shouldn't be anything as such as the FBI, like there shouldn t be any such thing as the very federal agencies and officers that are actually the people who have to do that work. It is true that I think we on the left should recognize that those things have to happen. Like in order to have people who would go after and investigate people on the Epstine list and all that crap, you do have to have this kind of person in the right place. And And you do want robust federal agencies to deal with stuff like that and stuff like, you know, sex trafficking and especially a lot of the cybercrime, cyber sex abuse stuff going on. Like there's a lot ugly stuff. I'm glad I don't have to deal With it. And I do think we should have good people. But it's so hard when these agencies have been fundamentally corrupted and ruined by especially now, like the current administration. I mean, this would have been, I think, a whole different conversation and an interesting conversation 20 years ago or maybe, you know, like Obama years. It would be interesting to talk about it. I'm definitely curious to hear what you guys think. But I do think we have to recognize that if we want people being punished for sex trafficking type crimes across state lines, inevitably that's going to involve federal officers.

0:23:14 Eli: Yeah, I mean, again, I think this is a problem that the Charlie Kirk liars have created right as I as I so lovingly nickname them because I know a ton of federal employees and most federal employees including federal law enforcement are the best most selfless people you know they are like I've decided I want to fix roads right for their whole fucking life right they are they are nerds of making the country better and that includes federal law enforcement as thomas was just pointing out right fbi cia all those people they're the ones doing and all the kid fucking, right?

0:23:36 Tom: Yeah.

0:23:49 Eli: Theoretically, immigration customs enforcement sounds like a great idea.

0:23:49 Thomas: Yeah, yeah.

0:23:54 Eli: I'd love for there to be some kind of customs enforcement. You can't just bring a yak into this airport, sir. There's a policy for that, right. I think the misunderstanding goes both ways, right, which is that I think people who don't want to deal with the fact that their jobs no longer represent the career that they signed up for, create a straw man where the other person is saying there should be no customs and I think the people who recognize the fascist takeover of these federal agencies but don't want to recognize that there are still lots and lots of good people doing really incredible and important work in those agencies want to say catchy edgy things online like all cops are bastards and you know there shouldn't be any police and I'm an anarchist and all that fucking badly read fucking undereducated bullshit everybody wants to say that shit for the internet but they're charlie kirk liars right no one actually thinks that not a single person in the world or if they do they immediately show themselves to be in such dire mental illness that all you can feel for them is empathy right because I remember a couple years ago I was back on facebook so it must have been more than a couple of years I was like nobody's actually an anarchist this person was like yes I am it was like no you're not you've read these books and those books change the word anarchy to mean things that you don't understand and you're not actually thinking

0:25:17 Eli: About collectivism you're thinking about a different thing what you want is this stuff and they were like no I really do and then they went on this like nine page post where they talked about how they want all the structures of government to collapse and they want everyone to have to survive off the land and they're fine if that means that millions of people starve to death and there's no water and there'S no power and all that and immediately my reaction wasn't, well, at least you're intellectually honest, friend. Touché.

0:25:33 Thomas: That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my fucking life.

0:25:42 Eli: I was like, cool, go to therapy right now. You are in mental health crisis.

0:25:50 Thomas: That's insane.

0:25:51 Eli: If you were like, I want to get eaten by bears, I'd go, cool. I'm not questioning how firmly you believe that. Go see a doctor until you don't feel that. Take a different nummy pill every morning until you stop thinking those those thoughts take it from your boy so yeah I mean I think that's why you feel unwelcome on the left right now

0:26:11 Thomas: I think there's also genuine, you know, for sure. Like, I think I agree with you, but like, yeah, I mean, there's Also a lot of animosity toward certain like, I have animosity towards law enforcement because it is a gathering place for white supremacy. It just is

0:26:24 Eli: Yes of course and there's tremendous problems in law enforcement right now and you know much as when the way that I always put this when people ask me about this kind of stuff is like you ever talking to someone you're like a skeptic and they're like well did you know that such and such about western medicine is bad and you'relike yeah you know who fucking found that out western goddamn medicine.

0:26:42 Thomas: Western medicine. Yeah.

0:26:44 Eli: A homeopath has never been like, I don't know, guys, I'm looking at these MRI scans and they're not quite coming together for me. Have we tried some water? Similarly, a tremendous amount of this change, a horrendous amount of his action is coming from within the law enforcement community. I mean, you want to talk about some of the bravest people who have stood up against the Trump administration, federal employees who still show up to work every day and do good at personal personal risk within a system that is trying to do the exact opposite. Yeah.

0:27:08 Thomas: Wait,

0:27:16 Tom: Like look at mark kelly like mark kelli recently like he's former military he like put out that video saying like hey you guys swore an oath not to do illegal shit so remember you cannot do illegal when it comes to orders like and he did that at risk to himself like absolutely yeah

0:27:31 Eli: I mean, truly, you cannot count the number of stories of the fucking guy at the IRS who just took the lockdown key and threw it out the window. And they were like, you're going to go to jail. This is when what's his name? Musk and big balls were allowed to go into the IRS and they go in and they're like, well, my friend, it looks like we got our warrant. And obviously the IRS is locked down with like super important security and the guy just logged out and then took his little key thing that allows him to log in and just tossed it out the window yeah

0:27:40 Tom: Yeah I mean good

0:27:41 Thomas: What? The lockdown key? Oh, a big pause.

0:28:01 Tom: For him yeah

0:27:58 Thomas: Oh, shit. Dude, really? I got to read. What's this from? I gotta read this. I think I missed that. I gotta red that.

0:28:04 Eli: He just fucking threw it out the windows and they were like you're in trouble and he was like yeah it's somewhere out there oops

0:28:09 Thomas: That's incredible.

0:28:09 Tom: Who do we think whistleblowers are like whistleblopers are are the the people in these organizations that have like these positions that's why they have access to this in front and whistles it's mostly a whistle -based

0:28:18 Thomas: Have whistles. Yeah, you gotta have a whistle to be able to blow it. Yeah?

0:28:21 Eli: And federal employees are who are going to fix this right like the the a really important thing to understand is like the private sector is not it's not gonna repair when the dust settles, it will be the federal government that and fuck, here's a sentence to whatever extent it's possible puts this period of history right. The people who are throwing the bad guys in jail will be federal employees.

0:28:25 Tom: Economy yes

0:28:51 Eli: And they're going to do the long, slow work.

0:28:51 Tom: Yeah

0:28:53 Thomas: Jack Smith is incredible. If he were Mueller, we would have had a different history, I think. Jack Schmidt is what Mueller actually thought he was. And when you watch Jack Smith, I've watched I watched all his uh testimony both times the one that came out that was behind closed doors that later came out and then the one in front of everybody and it's like oh you know what maybe we should have a few guys like him we actually do need a few Guys like that who are truly they're like I do not do politics I do Not care about political parties at all I look at the letter of the law and if someone's violated it I'm prosecuting them and I truly believe that about him and I think a lot of people say that in our bullshit but like that guy actually do do believe it about him. And you see that and you're like, oh, maybe we should have that. Maybe that is an ideal that we shouldhave. We're going to need to have people who aspire to that at the very least.

0:29:39 Tom: Like what are we supposed to do like seed all of these spaces we're going to take like the most powerful positions of authority and like we're gonna seed allof these spaces to right -wing fucking white supremacist lunatics when I think about like what how would I respond if my kids wanted to join one of these things my only two questions would be like if it's the military it's like well which branch because I don't feel the same about all the branches and I don'T FEEL THE SAME MOSTLY BECAUSE NOT ALL OF THE BRANCHES ARE GOING TO OFFER THEM THE SAMe POST -MILITARY CAREER OPPORTUNITIES AND THEY HAVE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF LIKE DANGER THAT ARE INVOLVED AND VERY SELFISHLY FOR MY KIDS IF MY KID WAS LIKE I WANT TO JOIN THE MARINES IT'D BE LIKE NEAT PICK SOMETHING ELSE BUT THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT LIKE I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE THE MARines yeah like I think we should have a the marines and I think we should have a army you know but like I am also a selfish dad and at the end of the day I'm like no man join the navy or the air force there's more in it for you if you join one of the more technologically heavy branches

0:30:22 Eli: I can hit your girlfriend for you if you want.

0:30:42 Eli: I also think we should have those people who clean up crime crime scenes. That doesn't mean I want my kid to be one. Whenever someone's like, well, it's gotta be done. I'm like, yeah, but not by me. What are you doing?

0:30:53 Tom: I'll recognize like out loud the tension of that right like like that's an absolutely like insane and privileged and shitty thing to say right but like I just

0:30:58 Thomas: Oh, that's true with everything, though. There's a million

0:31:01 Tom: Want to say it yeah right but I think for me even for like local cops if my kid wanted to be a local cop like for me it's not like hey

0:31:01 Thomas: Jobs like that. There'S a millionjobs like that. Yeah, I

0:31:10 Tom: This is a bad job and you can't be a part of this job yeah I thought about being a cop at one point actually but like I think for me for me the question would be

0:31:11 Eli: Really? Is high school that hard? We can get you a tutor, kiddo.

0:31:14 Thomas: Don't know, man. Yeah you are a cop. The monogamy me police over here oh

0:31:23 Eli: Oh, Tom. Tom the cop would have been awesome. Do you know how fast you were going back there? My neck broke while I was trying to look at you. I've genuinely You would lay asking.

0:31:26 Thomas: Man that's

0:31:33 Tom: Like for methequestion is like why do you want to do it like let's really explore why you want to do this work that's an important element it's like why like whether or not I would support something if my kids wanted to do it and then like honestly if they're going to join one of these I would want to make sure that from a character standpoint they are a person that has significant strength of character because like they we're not going to fix these places if we send people in and then they integrate into those spaces right so like if you send a kid in or a young man or a young woman into this space and what they do is they change who they are in order to integrate into these violent spaces, then you've done nothing except for ceded your kid to these right -wing ideologies. But if you've got a kid that you're like, okay, you want to do this for the right reasons, you don't want to just go fight people. I literally knew a guy growing up who wanted to be a cop so he could get in fights. It's not that, right? But if he wanted to do it for good reasons, yeah.

0:32:29 Tom: I'll be honest, I thought about being a cop when I was in my early 20s because I was out of college, I had a degree in English Lit, I was working at a title insurance company. I was bored. I was sitting at a desk. I felt like chewing my fucking arms off all day just sitting there and I was like, I'd much rather just be in a car driving around and talking to people and doing something a little more dynamic than sitting at a desk but like realistically out here like where I was living. It was like yeah, these are fairly low

0:32:26 Thomas: 90 of them shooting

0:32:30 Eli: Shooting

0:32:50 Thomas: The odd person yeah

0:32:51 Eli: Them a cage. Oh, you beat me to it. How dare you? Yeah.

0:33:00 Tom: Stakes.

0:33:01 Thomas: Barely even get to kill

0:33:03 Eli: Let

0:33:03 Tom: These are low stakes jobs and I thought it sounded like a a little bit more interesting and I'm like I can maybe work my way and be a detective or something and like I ultimately obviously decided against doing it but I considered doing it and not for any reasons of like I'd love to have authority to lord over people but more like yeah I just I need something to do where I move my body a little more and I're more involved with human beings and like maybe I could help people maybe I can actually be somebody useful in someone's life No.

0:33:34 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:33:36 Eli: Let me speak to the obvious for a moment and say that there are obviously times and places where joining those organizations is an unwinnable situation. I don't think anyone should join ICE right now in the hopes of making it a better, more equitable work environment. And I don't think anyone should have signed up to be a cop in 1940s Germany. Right. I think there are times and periods in history where a federal government has been so thoroughly overtaken that the moral thing becomes giving up your job. Right? If it turned out that iTunes only operated because we fed 100 orphans a day into a giant wood chipper, I would stop podcasting. I wouldn't become part of the anti-wood-chipper podcast front. I would just stop podcasting. And that's important to acknowledge, too, because I think part of the straw men that goes the other way is this notion of, like, well, if it's possible to change organizations from the inside, then there's no limit to how bad an organization should be where you don't have to resign. And I think it's important that there are a lot of really good people in law enforcement right now, lots of people in our federal government right now who are doing their best to create good environments. But one of the things that we've seen is that those people have their limits. Yes, a lot of people are being laid off. A lot of people are getting let go for not staying with the status quo, and that's awesome. But a ton of people also are just taking early retirement or quitting or becoming whistleblowers and then quitting, right? And so that is also a moral path that you can take when the government turns so hard in that direction. But in terms of, like, what federal employees do, I mean, I think they, again, genuinely they are some of the most selfless jobs

0:33:46 Thomas: Anyone that's yeah no yeah yeah

0:35:32 Eli: Jobs you can take

0:35:34 Tom: You're not in it for the money. I'll tell you that. Like, I've got very good friends, husband and wife. They are both EPA scientists. Well, they're both retired now. Yeah. They're both EPA specialists. Like they work their asses off. I mean, they worked their asses off. Both of them had been courted many times by oil companies and other private industry, and they could have tripled their salaries like no bullshit, tripled Their salaries by going into the private sector, and essentially working against the work that they were doing because they

0:35:35 Eli: On both in

0:35:42 Thomas: Yeah oh yeah you mentioned them Yeah,

0:35:42 Eli: Ice all

0:36:07 Tom: Were effective at it. And like that's a I'll tell you what like that pretty compelling that's a lot of fucking money and that's why they recruit from those and they're sometimes successful doing it but like they certainly weren't doing it for the cash I think if like my kids were like hey I'd like to join the military I would very much say like alright look if you want to join The Air Force there's a ton of great opportunities very tech heavy The Air Force is a very technologically driven branch of the military where there'd be a lot of opportunity for you I would be supportive of that

0:36:10 Eli: Right never mind yeah just pretend the outline is like a dog walking on its hind legs don't worry about what it actually is and hey if you want to join the navy just be gay you don't need to make an excuse anymore you can just you just go and me and your mother are so proud of you now thomas that's probably tough for you because if your kid came out as wanting to go into the Navy, you'd have to choose between supporting the military and being homophobic. So I feel like that would be tough on you and Lydia.

0:36:44 Thomas: Know about that.

0:37:03 Tom: So Thomas, you're making noises you would not like there's no branch of the military where you'd be like yeah that's fine no why

0:37:08 Thomas: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. What is the function of the military? What does it do that would be like a thing that you're interested in doing? I don't understand. No, I don't think that.

0:37:16 Tom: Wait so you think we shouldn't have a military that seems insane

0:37:20 Thomas: If my kid wanted to join the military, I'd be like, why would you want to fucking join the military? That's insane. Saying. I would want to know like what thing they think they're doing. I didn't say that. I didn't think we should have a military. That's not the question. Was it? Yeah. This is what I would ask my kid.

0:37:32 Tom: Well you asked what the function of the military was so like like Oh, I thought you're asking me

0:37:37 Thomas: Like, what is the thing you're doing that you think you're going to be a part of, you know, like what is that overall project that you would wantto advance by being in the military? I just, I don't get it, man. I don' get it.

0:37:47 Tom: I think if we're going to accept that we have these structures and that we need these structures in place and I think we do do, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to say, okay, well, I mean, is there something in it for me? I think that personally, I think joining a branch like the Air Force, like I said, which there's a tremendous amount of extremely valuable work experience that would come out of, I think maybe you underestimate that.

0:38:11 Thomas: Yeah. If it was, if it was a heavy technical like function, I guess I could see that maybe. Yeah, no, not drones. No. Cause drones are mainly just killing people, no?

0:38:15 Tom: That's the entire Air Force. That's why I'm bringing it up. That's the entire Air Force. Yeah.

0:38:16 Eli: Come on. Drones. Arlo loves video games. Yeah.

0:38:23 Eli: No, it's like video games are low would love it.

0:38:25 Thomas: It it would only be if your job within the military was serving some actual pro -social purpose otherwise it's like hey I'm not gonna my kids can do what the fuck they want but I'm not gonna like it like why would I have to like it I'll just be like no I think that's dumb. Yeah.

0:38:38 Tom: No, no. I'm not saying you didn't like it. Yeah, yeah. No, No, yeah.

0:38:40 Eli: Oh see now interesting. Cause we've three bears here because I would absolutely do everything in my power to stop Max from joining the military.

0:38:48 Thomas: Oh, I would too. No, I'm there too.

0:38:49 Eli: I would sabotage that attempt to join the military to the extent that I was physically able to. I'd go down to the recruiter's office and be like, hey, that's my husband slash lover. And I just want to let you know he's a big old mo. He loves it. Loves being gay. And the Navy guy would be like over here at my booth. And I'd be like no, Navy guy, I've got a different excuse for you. Here's my favorite thing about this. Whenever I meet a member of our audience who's in the navy they're always like you always make those homophobic jokes about the navy and then I'm like are they not true and they're like no I'm fucking true it's just you make a lot of them

0:39:31 Thomas: Okay. I'm not, I won't go so far as Eli as this. I forgot the measures that Eli would take to sabotage something. I wouldn't go, I won't co -sign to that Jesus

0:39:36 Eli: You know what my mom did right so my mom not only brought me to anti -war protests as a kid and took pictures and then she also got me diagnosed as colorblind when I was a kid she was like yeah Yeah. No, I don't think he sees any of those. And so there's a bunch of stuff on my medical records that are disqualifying. She tried to get me diagnosed as flat-footed. Yeah.

0:39:53 Thomas: Christ oh my god oh sure

0:40:01 Tom: I'm flat-footed. My kids would not qualify anyway. So it's all theoretical.

0:40:06 Thomas: You you with the flat-footed kids you're trying to sign my kids up for the fucking military this

0:40:09 Tom: But like, no, I just look, I if my if my kids wanted to join the Marines or the army, I would be like Eli. I would break every bone in their body before I would let them do it because I don't think there's anything in it for them. I think that they only have an enormous amount to lose. Very, very little for them to gain. I think there's actually quite a lot for them to gain if they join other branches and depending on what their reasons were I'd be like yeah all right I can support that like there's opportunities if you want to be a doctor there's opportunity to join the military go through medical school have all that shit paid get a little bit experience come out and you're a doctor like there's like a lot of people who are like I don't know I don't know I'm not sure actually kind of a lot stuff that you can do if you join some of these other branches like like overall the combat roles are less than 10 to 15 percent almost all the roles are non-combat they're logistics intelligence etc then

0:40:58 Thomas: Is yeah it's just a weird I don't understand like this is just a total difference I guess in philosophy and that it's like I'm not looking at it as like what my kid could get out of it I'm looking at it as what is the thing you're a part And what is the function of it? And I think for most elements of our military, the function of it is imperialism and killing brown people. And even if you're not directly doing that, that's the infrastructure you're a part of. I could see some carve outs for like some of the scientific stuff they do. I know there's a lot of important, what?

0:41:28 Eli: What if we go to war with Russia though?

0:41:30 Tom: We have very little work to do it'll be a very short moment would I be excited what

0:41:30 Eli: Huh? Well, then wouldn't you be excited though?

0:41:35 Eli: What if he had a virtuous war, Thomas? A virtuous war.

0:41:37 Thomas: Virtuous? Oh, well that we shouldn't be, yeah, we should avoid war at all costs.

0:41:41 Eli: A virtuous war. Indulge me.

0:41:41 Thomas: I mean, does that mean you're going to sign up for the draft or something? I don't understand what, yeah.

0:41:45 Eli: Indulged my stupid argument. Would your children be allowed to stop being honest and intellectual?

0:41:49 Thomas: Well, no, then, then we would, the calculation changes to, this is a dangerous job that I wouldn't want them to join for selfish danger reasons. Then it would, it would shift, I guess.

0:41:58 Eli: Do you know a story about Anna's grandpa's pacifist test?

0:42:02 Thomas: No.

0:42:03 Eli: So Anna's grandfather, Otto Smith, the fucking second, I think, third. I think he's the second or the third.

0:42:09 Thomas: Sounds like a Nazi.

0:42:09 Eli: He was a he was a pacifists. Yeah, Sounds like a Nazi, opposite of a Nazi turns out. During Vietnam, they were like, join the military. You're good at engines. You have autism. And so they do this thing you used to have to participate. You still kind of do, but it's changed now. They do an interview to test your true pacifism. And one of the questions, this is a real question that was from that exam. You can look it up was, what would you do if I were to try to rape your wife right now? Right.

0:42:36 Thomas: Oh my God. Really?

0:42:45 Eli: And it's to goad you into going, kick your ass. And then they go, aha, you're not a pacifist. It's 100% real. I know that sounds like the craziest lie I've ever made up, but I promise it's real.

0:42:45 Tom: Jesus christ it's

0:42:45 Thomas: Oh my God, that's so stupid. Yeah, no, I actually think you've, I think I've heard that before. Yeah, that is. That's so, that sounds so stupid,

0:42:56 Tom: Not the craziest lies made

0:43:00 Eli: So they're polite people, so they put out cake and coffee, and they're doing it, and immediately the military people are uncomfortable, right? Because they are expecting hippies. They're expecting smelly hippies with tune -in dropout, not a Berkeley professor with several very important farming patents to his name. So they are already off their guard, and so they're kind of fucking up their lines, right, they're like,

0:43:44 Thomas: That, that was, that sounded like a, that

0:43:45 Eli: So, um, geez. Is this because of your Christian beliefs he's like no no not my Christian beliefs and so there's two different versions of the story I'll tell you my favorite version which is that they go What if I tried to rape your wife right now? What would you do And he looks down at his cake and he goes we're eating all right gentlemen before we go what's the crappiest punctuation mark the colon

0:43:47 Tom: Up

0:43:47 Clip: DEAR OLD DAD

0:44:02 Tom: Oh my God, nah

0:44:04 Thomas: Look,

0:44:49 Eli: A fancy Fancy brand like Lind, perhaps?

0:44:53 Thomas: We have sex all the time. It's fine.

0:44:55 Eli: Arlo, why are you doing that?

0:44:59 Tom: It's just a hero's journey