WTW110: America Fest 3 - Tucker Carlson Hits Back at Ben Shapiro

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:03 Clip: What's so scary about the woke mob? How often you just don't see them coming. Anywhere you see diversity, equity, and inclusion, you see Marxism and you see woke principles being pushed. Wokeness is a virus more dangerous than any pandemic hands down. The woke monster is here and it's coming for everything.

0:00:33 Clip: Instead of go-go boots, the seductress green M&M will now wear sneakers.

0:00:41 Thomas: Hello. This is where there's woke. We've lost our minds. Well, that I don't even know. That'll, that's patron only or something at this point. Ah, well, hello. All right. We'll leave that part in and say, if you want to hear Lydia and I do nothing nonsense stuff for 10

0:00:43 Lydia: What show are we doing? Have we launched a new podcast? Oh, man.

0:00:54 Lydia: Anyway, that was some of the most enjoyable podcasting I think we've done in a long time.

0:01:06 Thomas: Minutes, I will put it after the show for everybody. I guess I'll put it for it. There's no value to it. I'll put it for everybody after the show. If you would like to hear it after what show, I don't know, because who knows how many parts of this there's going to be because I watched Tucker Carlson so that no one else had to.

0:01:06 Lydia: So it's very enjoyable. Yes, for the people. Yes. I'm so glad. Doing

0:01:25 Thomas: Hello, I'm Thomas. That over there is Lydia. How are you doing?

0:01:27 Lydia: Better than you because I don't have to watch Tucker Carlson yet. I am about to be bad.

0:01:31 Thomas: Well, yeah, also just the, the supreme peak of human emotion you just displayed in the thing people might hear after the Show, if they actually like us, but But so all five of them, it was it was the funniest thing that's ever happened. Anyway. Yeah, I'm doing well.

0:01:40 Lydia: It got me in the mood it got me in a mood I didn't ask how are you I know the rush of dopamine yeah it's

0:01:49 Thomas: So, yeah, that's fine. I get you. You know what? You just had your most mind blowing experience. You know, it's like it's it's like it was your wedding day. I'm not going to be like, oh, she didn't ask me how I was like, whatever. You got stuff going on. It doesn't work because we're married. Well, no, it works.

0:02:02 Lydia: Fair it still works oh

0:02:07 Thomas: Truth be told, we because of multiple reasons, including everybody being sick and everything and

0:02:14 Lydia: And hey everybody's sick again yeah

0:02:14 Thomas: I everybody's sick again so cool we'll see when we get this out working our hardest but seriously everyone was just sick and then everyone's sick against hopefully this one's quicker I think Remy got through pretty hopefully pretty quickly the last one was rough anyway I watched America Fest as people obviously just listen to two episodes of it but there's been a bit of a delay between when I watched it and now there wasn't in the first two but now we had to like break for various things. So I went back and I watched the Tucker Carlson again to make sure I was prepped for this one. And I don't know how I'm not going to do the whole thing. It's, it's really fucking interesting. It's really interesting. Clearly you can tell I've like kind of changed my mind about Tucker Carlson. Not that he's like a good guy by any means, none of that, but that

0:02:26 Lydia: 48 hours yeah Yeah. Right. Yeah.

0:03:01 Thomas: Like he comes across as more of a believer of what he's saying than I thought. I was surprised by that because I do think we have a tendency and this happens everywhere, you know, especially with Tucker Tucker Carlson. I don't want to fucking watch Tucker Carlston. I don't wanna listen to him. I wanna hear him. So, my exposure is when people are roasting him or when people are dunking on him which they should cuz he sucks but like it does give you a bit of a skewed view and and I don'T even mean that means like we're judging him too harshly. I just mean it it changes our view. It it affects our view of who people are and what and what they believe.

0:03:21 Lydia: Shout out Kat Abughazaleh. Mm hmm. OK.

0:03:35 Thomas: Not even just judging them but like knowing what they belief because I'm changed but a little bit by this it doesn't mean that he's good I'm just very clear it's just that the things he believes I think are different than I thought that's all I'm saying and they're like differently bad and this speech is so interesting so we've already set it up and people are more fresh than than we are no I guess we edited it but but like there's the feud well why don't we just get to it no reason to keep pre -loading it um because we can just take our break which you can avoid patreon .com slash where there's woke and we edited that pause out so people don't know that I my brain doesn't work anymore

0:04:11 Lydia: Yes. Thank you for the note. Yeah.

0:04:15 Thomas: I am lightning quick with all my references and I get the composer that I'm trying to think of right on the first try

0:04:21 Lydia: And we don't go off for 10 minutes about all the music.

0:04:22 Thomas: 100 yeah duh I don't even know why we're saying all these things because those don't happen anyway point is patreon .gov slash wherethere'swoke get all the nonsense and everything early that's probably Probably the biggest benefit is stuff early. And the no ads.

0:04:27 Lydia: Not in this timeline. And the nonsense, please. Yeah, that's true. This time. Not guaranteed all the time.

0:04:39 Thomas: Well, we're giving everyone this nonsense, I think, so. That was so ominous. Yeah, this time. They better watch their fucking asses next time. They're not going to get our nonsense. All right, we'll take a break, and then we're going to listen to Tucker Carlson, our favorite person in the world.

0:04:59 Thomas: We're just going to go, because I'm telling you, if I had my druthers, and I don't have, I didn't bring my drethers. I've never owned druthers, but if I had them, if I bought a pair of druthERS, they come in pairs, I think. Yeah. If I ordered druthERs, it would mean that we listened to this entire fucking thing. Really, I'm not joking. I'm so interested by this because it's like, it's a really interesting thing that's happening. I'm trying to get a sense of what these fuckers believe. And I'll be honest, the last one, and I think we probably all felt this way, the The last one left us with a, oh, shit, we're all going to die feeling

0:05:00 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:05:05 Lydia: Yes, you've never had druthers. If you had the forethought to go and buy some druthers. Especially

0:05:35 Thomas: Because if Michael Knowles is the voice, is the is the conscience, is is the place that the right is going, it's only going to get worse. Like it just it feels horrible.

0:05:45 Lydia: If his mouth is talking directly to children's ears.

0:05:49 Thomas: What does that mean?

0:05:50 Lydia: Well, because I said, you know, he was PragerU.

0:05:52 Thomas: Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah, geez.

0:05:52 Lydia: Like, he's a big Prager U guy. Yeah.

0:05:55 Thomas: Yeah I still don't know how that's working. Does he tone it down or is he just like, hey, kids, we hate all the non whites or, you know, I don't even know. No.

0:05:59 Lydia: Man. Yeah. I don't know.

0:06:04 Thomas: But he's so coded. He was so sneaky. I had no idea he was basically just being a white nationalist. Totally had no idea. It was so coded, we fell for it. But this one is interesting because it's not exactly that, but it's a different kind of thing. And I'm trying to wrap my mind around where this sits within the movement. He postures himself in this as though he is is embattled and everyone's going to agree with ben shapiro and it might be true on this crowd maybe like but I feel like he does an incredible job in terms of knowing his audience and sticking to his guns uh and he gets to have the last word which I think is virtually everything in something like this when you have two shitty people like being shitty to each other like whoever gets the last word in front of these dumbos that are in the crowd probably is going to win but okay let's just go.

0:06:59 Thomas: No, that's a call ahead, call forward. Oh, we got, of course we got to get the intro here.

0:07:05 Clip: I never miss a Charlie Kirk event because I love Charlie Kirk. The more you tell the truth, the stronger you become. Come. Telling the truth means the hardest truth of all, which is telling the truth about yourself. It might be worth taking just 10 minutes out of your busy schedule to say a prayer for the future, and I hope you will. Don't let anybody insult you instead of answering a legitimate question. You know, you've got your ideas. I've got my ideas. We can debate them, but I honestly don't think ever again in my lifetime will the richest people in the country be able to point a finger at your face and say your position is too immoral to discuss and if you keep talking we're going to put you in jail that has been their position

0:07:51 Thomas: Who the F is he talking about? I think he's talking about, yeah, like under the Biden terror regime.

0:07:52 Lydia: Wow. I don'T know. I was trying to parse that out. Yeah. The swamp.

0:07:59 Thomas: You know, like this is, look, okay. The date of this, admittedly, it's been almost a month. This is before Venezuela, this is before the Rene Good murder, but it's after After Charlie Kirk was killed, obviously, it's after they fired everybody who even quoted Charlie Kirk. That's completely lost. I would imagine they just don't cover it.

0:08:19 Lydia: Oh, there's plenty of bullshit. Yeah, exactly.

0:08:21 Thomas: It's so funny to be like, oh, never again will they stop me from talking. What are you talking? No one was arrested. No one is arresting you or anyone like you ever for anything. What areyou talking about? Yeah.

0:08:32 Lydia: Well, yeah, the closest thing has been the press being kicked out of the Pentagon unless they would sign documents saying that they would run every story by the Department of Fake War, you know, before they publish. Like all these infringements on legitimate constitutional protections. That's what's happening now. It did not happen before, Tucker.

0:08:53 Thomas: It' s crazy. But I just wanted to situate this in time with where we are.

0:08:55 Clip: And they will never again get away with that ever ladies and gentlemen that has

0:08:56 Thomas: But like, this is after Charlie died. So, you know, that happened. Oh, my God. God, there's like fucking pyrotechnics going on. I'm telling you, I just noticed there's like the part in the stage that juts out, you know, in case he wants to like play a solo, you know, like I wonder if anyone used that, but it also, I guess it's a bit of a like pointy shape. So I don't know if it's trying to be evocative of like a star, like

0:09:31 Lydia: Oh, yeah. Like going to the crowd kind of thing. Yeah?

0:09:40 Thomas: Fucking stars and stripes kind of thing. But I just imagine like a Lady Gaga -esque like something, you Know, just iconic like like Beyonce, whatever, walking out where the crowd is on the jutted out stage. But no, I don't think anyone did that.

0:09:55 Clip: Oh, what a trip.

0:10:06 Thomas: To his minor credit, I think he is pretty put off by this shit and is trying to just like, okay. Yeah.

0:10:13 Lydia: Trying to like play it off a little bit.

0:10:17 Thomas: My God, they're shooting confetti into the, what? Did they win the Super Bowl?

0:10:18 Clip: You. Walking out is always such a trip with these things. I just got here and I feel like I missed the first part of the program. I hope I didn't miss anything meaningful. But I just want to say, I don't think I did. No, I'm just kidding. I watched it. I laughed. I laughed at that kind of bitter sardonic laugh that emerges from you when upside down world arrives when your dog starts doing your taxes and you're like wait it's not supposed to work this way to hear calls for like D platforming and denouncing people at a Charlie Kirk event I'm like what but the prediction that you know at

0:10:30 Thomas: Not bad.

0:10:31 Lydia: Yeah, Michael.

0:11:00 Thomas: I want to do the Michael, no, not George Michael. Who's George Michael's dad? It is Michael? It is Mike. Okay. God, I'm so. So I want to do the Michael, like still doing that, huh? He's still doing the laughing like an insane person. He has to have seen by now that he laughs like a fucking insane person, but he's still doing it. But you can tell he's tried to tone it down a little bit. He's like, you know, he's Joe Bluth, but He's also he's, oh my God. Remember that brilliant send up in Veep

0:11:11 Lydia: Tucker is such a Joe Bluth. He is such a Joe bluth. God.

0:11:32 Thomas: Where the tall guy that ends up being like by the end, he was like a fascist member of the

0:11:32 Lydia: Yeah Yeah. I don't know. He's great though.

0:11:38 Thomas: House or whatever. The hell's that guy's name? It's that vibe hmm

0:11:44 Clip: Some point when Republicans took power again which I did everything I could you know to help and really felt that was important I still think you know I was right? But I really thought that the impulse to de-platform people, or even to use the word platform as a verb, which it's not, it's a noun, don't steal my nouns, form and denounce,

0:11:59 Thomas: Hey man I got news for you the language changes all the fuck if that's your criticism look I love being a stickler for certain things of language that like are incorrect uses that then turn correct and I hate it like irregardless or something like I'll I'll take irreguardless to my death as in that's not a word and you shouldn't do it because it's just wrong but I'm wrong like I know I'm whatever language changes and the point of it is just to communicate There's no there's no reason why the sounds we make have to mean a certain thing. But like if the hill you're going to die on is not using a noun as a verb like, dude, we settled that 200 years ago. Like Shakespeare did that. What a dumb point. Anyway, so we can't spend our time on that kind of, you

0:12:50 Clip: Why haven't you denounced somebody else? The whole like Red Guard cultural revolution thing that we so hated and feared on the left, that we did everything we could to usher in a new time where you could have an actual debate. I mean, this kind of was the whole point of Charlie Kirk's public life. And I think that he died for it. I really believe that. And I know a lot about it because the last several months of Charlie's life were devoted in part to arguing about this event, in fact, this speech, in my speech here, which he asked

0:13:29 Thomas: Know, man, I'm going to try to not butt in as much as I can. But I think that for one, I don't think the point of Charlie's life was debate. I thinkthat was what he used to accomplish the real point of his life, which is Christian nationalism. And I also was just thinking like this is a a philosophical point but if you are killed because you have disgusting views that someone doesn't like and I'm not justifying killing people for their disgusting views but that does seem to be what happened let's grant that that's what happened he expressed disgusting views about trans people we can just grant for the moment that's happened and was shot you didn't die for the sake of debate you died because you had gross views that'd be like if fucking hitler is doing hitler language and then someone's like we got to stop this guy and then you shoot him he's like I always believed in debate you know it's like you're just expressing bad views that's why someone killed you if you were dying for the sake of like debate and free expression that would mean like you were like an aclu lawyer who like tried to protect someone's free speech but then they got mad at you for that and that would be legitimately like dying for free speech if you defended like an unpopular person or something thing in court or whatever. And you're like, no, they suck, but I'm defending their rights to have free speech. And someone killed you for that, that would be dying for free speech,

0:13:54 Lydia: Yeah Yeah. You're not condoning that. Yeah. Even closer to Charlie Kirk, if he had just been organizing the events on

0:14:51 Thomas: Right? Yeah.

0:14:51 Lydia: These campuses and not actually participating in them and then was killed, then yes, absolutely. That's exactly what happened. Yeah.

0:14:58 Thomas: And I get that, like, okay, he lived his values in that he was spouting his disgusting crap and might've been killed for it, I guess. But that's not the same as like, oh, what he really stood for in that moment is the principle of debate. What he stood for is ugly, disgusting crap. And that's why someone shot him. You know what I mean? It's weird to say that that's for debate, You know, it's not.

0:15:19 Thomas: It's like he could have been anti -debate and been up there just saying his views and been killed by the exact same person for the exact same thing. And you wouldn't be like, well, he's pro free speech. That's why he died. You know what I mean? Does that make sense?

0:15:33 Lydia: Well, especially because like what the right has really focused in on, too, is like the positions of the shooter, the positions of Robinson and, you know, that it was against things that Charlie would say. Like, that's not that's not debate. You're talking about a difference in positions, a difference in beliefs, a different difference in values there. The right has accepted that even from their own perspective. So I don't really know what he's getting at here.

0:16:02 Clip: Me to do earlier this year, this summer, and was immediately put under just immense pressure from people who give money to Turning Point, I would assume good people, but who wanted And this has all become public, and the whole thing is so sad that I never talk about it, except to say Charlie stood firm in his often stated and deeply held belief that people should be able to debate, and that if you have something valid to say, if you're telling the truth you ought to be able to explain it calmly and in detail to people who don't agree with you and that you shouldn't immediately resort to shut up racist you shouldn t immediately go to motive by the way shut up racist is the number one reason I voted for Donald Trump and because they're just sick of it I mean first of all if I was a racist if I

0:16:52 Thomas: Wait, voting for him wouldn't shut him up. What are you talking about? No, I'm just kidding.

0:16:55 Clip: I would just say so okay it's America you're allowed to be whatever kind of of person you want. I'm not. I am sincerely opposed, have always been, and will always be. But the style of debate where you prevent the other side from talking or being heard because you immediately go to motive. Well, I wonder why you're asking that question. I wonder, why are you asking that? I detect in the question a certain evil in your soul. And everyone listening should know that listening to you implicates them. And that they someday day may be asked to denounce you, and that friendship is not a reason to defend someone.

0:17:34 Thomas: So far, I bet you're thinking, wait a minute, isn't he exactly denouncing his entire shtick all the time? At least in terms of like questioning motive. Yeah, like he never questions the motives of. But what's interesting is that what is so fundamental to what's happening here is that it's silly and makes no sense if you think of him as just speaking in a general sense. But when you realize he's very, very specifically dealing with and speaking about this possible schism in the right and all of these principles of charity and of like, I don't go for all of that only applies when he's talking about the other MAGA or the other people.

0:18:14 Thomas: Like it took me a while. Yeah, exactly. It took me a while to realize that because like he says so many things that are so directly laughably like, oh, dude, you do that all the time that it's like it's hard to believe he doesn't see it. But I think it's that he truly just does not think of people on the left as like people. They're just like evil demons to him. You know, like anyone who would at all go for racial equality or anything like that. They'RE just these evil demons. And the only only people who are people who are like worthy of these like principles of charity that he's sort of and he talks about this a lot in the speech like different principles of charity it's because it specifically fits this moment in the schism and it works really well for that and what I just found myself wondering is like if there hadn't been this controversy between Ben and all that like I wonder what this speech would have been you know I'm actually kind of curious like if

0:18:15 Lydia: Within your in -group. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

0:19:07 Thomas: That hadn't be the central thing because the minute if you you were just stumping for Republicans or against Democrats in general in some way or conservatism or whatever, liberalism, I think it would mainly just be hate. It would mainly Just be like, these are people are demons and they suck and explicitly they have bad motives and they want to control you and all, all this stuff. That's exactly the opposite of what you just said. But because he's dealing with a conservative on conservative split here, it's funny for to hear him talk about all this, that he definitely doesn't follow ever when it comes to like him talking about anyone else.

0:19:39 Lydia: J

0:19:39 Clip: I think I should take the opportunity to explain why Charlie was under all this pressure, and I think Erica, who I just saw backstage, and whom I love, and who I can tell you is totally committed to continuing the core principle of Charlie's public life, which is the right

0:19:53 Lydia: .D. Vance is like, back off.

0:19:56 Clip: Of every person to express what he believes, that is rooted in Christian faith.

0:19:56 Thomas: It's a fraught love triangle, except for the soulless Democrats.

0:20:01 Clip: We believe people should be able to say what they think because they have souls Created by God they are not slaves. They are not animals. They're not objects you cannot tell another human being even shut up racist

0:20:17 Thomas: Oh, I can't. Shut up.

0:20:18 Lydia: Mm -mmm -hmmm.

0:20:18 Thomas: Shut up, racist. I did it.

0:20:20 Clip: Because you don't own him He is an independent autonomous person created by God as an individual okay, so that's where that belief comes from that's where free speech comes from and there's no accident this is the only country in the world

0:20:29 Lydia: But also not free from consequences, so. Yeah.

0:20:32 Thomas: Yeah. This is the only country in the world that protects free speech. Did you know that? No one else is allowed to say anything in any other country. That's why people have to listen to our podcast. There's no speaking in other countries. It's, you know, it'S great for us.

0:20:41 Lydia: Oh, oh, clearly. Yes. Of course. On the entire planet Earth. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Totally.

0:20:58 Clip: That protects it this is only country the world that protects

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0:21:01 Clip: It because our founding documents were formed as you just heard so nicely expressed by Michael Knowles my friend by people who self-consciously incorporated Christian precepts into their

0:21:07 Thomas: No you didn't hear that that's what's so funny he references michael knolls oh yeah you you heard that no michael knowles was like I love cancel culture fuck the democrats they shouldn't be allowed to live what are you talking about yeah like okay a lot of this is so worthless because it's all and this is sort of the depressing conclusion of this this is, I feel like it's all special pleading.

0:21:19 Lydia: De -platform all of them. Literally.

0:21:32 Thomas: Like all of this entire fucking side is special pleading, you can make any statement of principle. And he makes a lot, he makes so many statements of principle where I'm like, yeah, right on, I agree with that. That's great. But it just doesn't matter. Because if he says, I treat everyone equally, you're like, okay, yeah. I agree with that, but then what happens is he's like, Okay, but black people commit more crime. So we We got to police them. You know, like instantly it'll be special pleading. OK, but not this situation or not this person or it'll just be convenience. Like he doesn't think about those principles ever in his daily life with the show. He only can just speak about it. It's like this real cognitive dissonance or I don't even know if it's it's like this compartmentalization or something where it's like he can believe these principles and I think he thinks he believes them. But it just doesn't matter because like the minute there's a police shooting, Then it's like, well, that guy was clearly suspicious and it's just all the things that he thinks he's not doing. He does, but it's fine because he thinks He's not doing them. So it's okay. You know, it's, it just like depressing.

0:22:34 Lydia: Well, yeah, I mean, like, it's just so clear in the most simple of versions, too, where he's saying, you know, we're allowed to speak, we have souls, we Have autonomy, etc, etc. Okay, well, then everyone who says I don't like what you're saying, that's also their autonomy. That's also if you believe in souls, it'S literally the exact same thing.

0:22:51 Thomas: Yep. Saying shut up. Racist is also speech. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:22:56 Lydia: We're not preventing you from saying it. We'RE saying, hey, we don't really like what what you're saying that's a really really shitty thing to say that can't exist in the same world

0:23:05 Thomas: Well, I'm out of luck. Cause I, I don't have a soul, so I'm not allowed to say shut up racist. That sucks. Hey, can someone with a soul? Can I hire someone? Can I contract with someone who has a soul to be able to shout that?

0:23:08 Lydia: Yeah yeah exactly you are excluded outsource you know check task

0:23:22 Clip: Structure of government so Charlie was committed to that but they the people around him were like you can't because it's not that Carlson's wrong my only point was I don't want a land war with with Iran. I got over my skis and said I didn't want another regime change war with Iran." Rather than explain why we should have a regime change with Iran, which I'd be happy to listen to, he's an anti-Semite. He's an Anti-Semi! To which I said, well, obviously that's not true. And Charlie said, I know. And then it just didn't stop. So I continued to say, I'm not an anti Semite. We don't care what you say. You're lying. You are. So let me just affirm one final time, not only am I not an anti-Semite and would say so if I was, I'm not an antisemite for a very specific reason. Not because it's unpopular or my donors don't like it. I don't have any donors. I'm not an antisemite because antisemitism is immoral immoral in my religion. It is immoral to hate people for how they were born. Period. But

0:23:59 Thomas: I'm a pro -Semite.

0:24:00 Lydia: Rabbit

0:24:23 Thomas: Sure. Unless they were born trans. See, yeah, it doesn't matter. Like, it's like, cool, man. I wish you ever lived that.

0:24:26 Lydia: Or gay

0:24:33 Thomas: Ever. But the minute you're like, hey, what about trans kid? Then you can be like, well, there are no trans kids. It's just the people trying to trans them. It was like, okay, so what about the people trying to trance them? Were they born that way or not? You know, it's, like, it does not mean anything. It means nothing. It's frustrating it's like what's the point of this great

0:24:33 Lydia: Yeah

0:24:49 Clip: That is not a limited principle. That is a universal principle. It applies to every human being on planet earth. You may not, you are prohibited by my religion, which is Christianity, from hating people for how they were born because God created them with his

0:25:01 Thomas: For this he's gonna transition it pretty soon where do you see this going I'm just wondering eventually within

0:25:13 Lydia: Yeah not where not where we anticipate the exact opposite

0:25:23 Thomas: A few minutes this idea of not doing anything wrong to people based on how they were born where do where do you think that's going oh no okay

0:25:24 Clip: Spark in his image because they have souls you can disagree with them you can

0:25:25 Thomas: Well we'll see anyone at home play

0:25:31 Clip: Hate their ideas you may even find yourself and I do I'll confess it hating them for a moment but you can't hate everyone who's like them you punish people for crimes they didn't commit that's the basis of our justice a system that's the basis of Christian ethics. That's why we have what are called human rights. They apply to every human, not just your group, not my group, but every group, every human. Because we don't consider people in terms of the groups to which they belong, we consider them as individuals the way that God created them. Them. So anti-Semitism is not just naughty, it's immoral. And it is precisely as immoral

0:25:45 Thomas: Along sure didn't create any groups I can't stop thinking about that turn of phrase yeah Yeah. It's really interesting. Don't get hung up on the word per se.

0:26:14 Lydia: Okay naughty yeah okay I'm getting Now,

0:26:20 Thomas: What is that thought? Like there's something about it that my brain is putting together, but I can't quite put into words. It'S not just naughty. It' s immoral. I think what that comes from, I think that what that sentence comes from is him thinking that everyone who says, oh, that's racist or that's anti -Semitic is doing so from a sense that it's like a faux pas or it's something that we're trained to say is bad. And he's saying, no, I actually believe it's bad. Like not just naughty, it's immoral. I can't imagine coming up with that sentence any other, like, that's my closest guess. I think that he thinks, you know, people like us who would be like, oh, that thing you're saying is, you don't really believe that or we're just doing so because it's like a social nicety or something. And he's coming around saying, no, it's not just naughty. It's immoral. Like I actually believe it's immorality.

0:27:18 Lydia: This feels to me more like, and I could be wrong, but this feels to me, more like a direct plea to Ben Shapiro to be like, anti -Semitism to me is not just like a bad thing. It is opposite to humanity. I don't know that he's necessarily like contrasting himself with the left and like saying that the left, you know, only is avoiding anti -semitism because we think it's a bad thing to do I it almost no yeah but but it almost feels like it this is a like very personal I don't want to say plea but like sort of demonstrating in his speech to ben shapiro and maybe folks that might feel in the way that ben shapuro feels like I don'T just think that and anti -semitism is bad I feel like it is opposite to being a human being if you are going to participate in anti -semitism no I

0:27:47 Thomas: It is immoral, but it's not avoiding it. It it's about calling it out.

0:28:13 Thomas: Nah. I, I, so I think maybe I messed up by saying, don't focus on the word. Okay. Focus on the world a little bit. Cause why would she naughty? That doesn't make any sense. You would, you would say like, look, I don't think it's, I just think it is like kind of bad. I think it is super bad. Like naughty is a weird, I really, I mean, you could could be right but I I really feel like that comes from I just think based on what I know of him and and how much these people think because these people think that no one actually believes the stuff that we or anybody says like he I think he thinks and and I said to the left but I also think it's because of ben shapiro too like I think he's applying that same thing because he's talking about the entire purpose of this is how ben it's the thing I said where it's like ben shapira is having to use all the leftist arguments. So it's one in the same that he's talking about. And I think he thinks we don't actually think something's racist. I think we're just like trained by society to be politically correct. And to think that like, if you say something politically incorrect, then you're being naughty, you're being bad.

0:28:19 Lydia: Don't know tucker carlson's freaking weird

0:29:18 Thomas: I really think it comes from something like that. And he's trying to differentiate and say, no, I'm not even just doing it because of that. I actually think it's It's immoral, which I think is just such a window into how he views everybody else. I don't know. So we'll see. I don' t know. What do you think?

0:29:35 Lydia: Yeah yeah I'm not sure

0:29:37 Thomas: It's a weird word.

0:29:45 Clip: As hating any other group. And that would include other groups in the United States

0:29:49 Thomas: This is where he was going.

0:29:50 Lydia: Okay like white men

0:29:51 Clip: That are hated and have been under attack for decades. And But to become white men, they were born that way. And just because you have a beef with a white man, let's just say Donald Trump, doesn't mean you get to punish all the rest of the white men in the country.

0:29:55 Thomas: Yeah. You got there. Yeah. So good. They caught us.

0:30:12 Thomas: Guys, they caught us, we're just mad at Donald Trump. That's why all of the rhetoric around white men started in 2015 like there wasn't oh yeah we were we weren't mad well maybe I was gonna say we're we were mad at george bush too or something like before that because like that that is so funny we're mad at trump and that's Why we're like man I hate everyone who looks like so stupid

0:30:21 Lydia: Oh there was nothing before then exactly yeah white men were all fine fine nah very strange

0:30:37 Thomas: Yeah no I also did not predict that's true he's not even in your race man he's a different race I also oompa

0:30:46 Lydia: He's also an orange man not a white man so there you go yeah

0:30:46 Thomas: Loompa I also did not predict uh in real time that hard pivot and it like he

0:30:52 Lydia: He sits in it for a bit

0:30:52 Thomas: It it whoa man it goes so long that you're like oh that was the

0:30:57 Lydia: Oh okay that's his original speech got it

0:30:57 Thomas: Point oh boy yeah might be and

0:30:57 Clip: Trump doesn't means you get punish all of the rest the white man in the country. And yet, our leaders, not just of our Congress, the executive branch

0:31:04 Thomas: Yet god they're so oh my god our leaders sorry who's our leaders are they all black women yeah

0:31:10 Lydia: Oh yeah it's all of you guys I wish

0:31:14 Clip: Answer under Biden, but of every major U.S. corporation, of every college in the country, probably except Hillsdale and two others, every single one for more than 10 years has engaged in

0:31:17 Thomas: Mm -hmm they're men they're white men oh he really does think it started with trump never mind okay I take that back I guess he I guess his worldview is that all of the anti -quote anti -whiteness or anti -white maleness started with Trump he just had a decade all

0:31:41 Clip: A systematic effort to hurt white men because they are white men. That is racism that is precisely precisely as bad as anti-Semitism, but it is much more widespread and has been so far much more damaging.

0:32:00 Lydia: Wow much more

0:31:58 Thomas: Right much more damaging guys which has been more damaging anti -semitism or a thing we don't even have a name for because it's nothing. Anti -white meninism. We don't have a thing for that because it is nothing.

0:32:06 Lydia: Damaging yeah how many millions of white men have died at the yeah invite ben shapiro back on stage actually like just bring him back on let's duke it out right here right now

0:32:22 Thomas: People don't know this because they are not good at history. We have been holocausted twice. That is the thing. Us white men. They have only had one. Yep. See? No. They don't teach you that. I don't now why, but it is true that they don't don't teach you that. So ridiculous. It's been more harmful guys. Look

0:32:43 Lydia: We don't teach all of it in class yeah wow

0:32:44 Thomas: Around you idiot. Like what in the fucking world are you talking about? Every single person is a white man who's in power. Like every, just all of them.

0:32:52 Lydia: Yeah look in the mirror and recognize how mediocre you are and how much power you've had in the media landscape for so many years and it's because you're a white man it's because you're a white man tucker

0:33:07 Thomas: It'S incredible. I guess this is why it necessarily has to go along with conspiracism. Cause I guess you have to believe that like, well, you know how everything everything literally fucking everything is run by white men, like just majority, vast majority, disproportionately so more than we are the population. That's nothing. Forget that. There must be some shadowy figures behind the scenes because otherwise, how do you deal with the fact that literally the demographic that you're saying has been more harmed than Jews?

0:33:40 Thomas: White men are in charge of everything. Every president except literally one and they've all all been men so you've got that like the men part you're a hundred percent on presidents but one of them was not white

0:33:39 Lydia: Yeah yep yep

0:33:56 Clip: And my point is, if you said nothing about that, or if you encouraged it by, say, cheering

0:33:56 Thomas: And he was half white so you still get partial no I'm just kidding oh sure

0:33:58 Lydia: That's crazy

0:34:06 Clip: On BLM, which was an anti-white hate group, and said so, then you have no moral standing to lecture me about bias. Period. Because all bias is the same. You are not allowed to hate people

0:34:16 Thomas: No they didn't who's he talking to there I wonder again I would play this whole fucking thing because it's so funny but I think I can skip some because he goes on like for you know a couple minutes about how there's no permanent enemies like the bible teaches us you know saul of tarsus or or whatever the hell it is. Like he was the worst. And then overnight he's a, he's a hero. And it's like, there's no permanent enemies. Everyone is capable of whatever. Again, all these high -minded Christian principles that just have no effect on his life. He thinks he believes them. He's very convincing right now that he believes in them. And I think it's because again, I think his frame of reference, I the thing he's talking about is just amongst the right wingers. I think he probably does believe a lot of this when it comes to other right right? Wingers.

0:35:09 Thomas: Where it's like, there's no permanent enemies. Tell that to Joe fucking Biden or whatever. There's no, everybody's collective punishment, all that stuff. I think he very much thinks he believes it and maybe does when it comes to right on right crime. But the minute he's back on his show, it doesn't matter. Okay.

0:35:09 Lydia: Know

0:35:34 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:35:34 Clip: Based on their bloodline. So I guess I would just say to the many organizations now, and

0:35:35 Thomas: I got to skip a little bit at least, but this part's too interesting.

0:35:42 Thomas: Are you ready to agree with Tucker Carlson a whole lot? God, that's going to be this theme. Again, it doesn't really matter because he doesn't live this in any meaningful way, but he's going to say so many things that I'm like, yeah, I can't. Are you ready?

0:35:56 Clip: Particularly the Supplies to the Anti-Defamation League, which has cheered on anti-white hatred for decades, has attacked anyone who said anything about it, which has been one of the most aggressive cheerleaders for hate against white men in the United States, now trying to lecture the rest of us about hate, I would say it's enough to point out the irony of that. Come to our side, which is the side of humanity, and oppose all hate against all people say out loud hate against whites is every bit as bad as hate against Jews it's a universal principle or it's not a principle it's just a preference a

0:36:04 Thomas: Yeah. Fuck them. Wait, hold on. No, Tucker, you went, oh, nevermind.

0:36:16 Thomas: You were so close. What? No, that'S. Yeah.

0:36:23 Lydia: Oh because it's all the charlottesville people that were on their list for a while yeah Yeah.

0:36:27 Thomas: Oh, yeah. Sure.

0:36:32 Lydia: Okay. Oh, boy. Wow.

0:36:48 Thomas: Have you ever had to argue with somebody who has this view? Because I have. I haven't had to agree with somebody. With someone who literally believes that oppression against white people has been as bad as oppression. But I have had to argument with people who are like, it's the same. It's a principle. It either counts all the time or none. And you're like, yeah, but it's not important.

0:37:09 Thomas: Like, it counts just as much as hatred against the French. And you are like... Yeah, but I just don't think that's especially in the US. Like, does that matter? Does that come up a whole lot? You know, like, does it have an effect? Really? Does it matter? Like, like sure. If you if you want to just for fun, be like all things being equal. Just because I'm I'm all for a good hypothetical. I love a good hypothetical. Hypothetically, we live in a planet with two people and no other people and no history and nothing has ever happened. And one is black and one is white. If you hate either of them for just the color of their skin, you are doing an equal thing in that situation. Cool. Great. That's a cool hypothetical that just doesn't apply to anything.

0:37:25 Lydia: This day and age. Yeah, mm -hmm, mm.

0:37:52 Thomas: You know, it's like, yeah, no, if you could come up with a scenario in which all things were equal, then those would be equal. Well, it's not to say that hating white people for being white is like not bad and hating Jewish people for being Jewish is bad. It's not really that it's that this just irrelevant. Like it doesn't, it has no mapping onto our current reality in a way that matters at all. But if all things were equal, truly equal, meaning, I don't know, like there was a country where black people had enslaved white people for 300 years or whatever it was. And they controlled literally every single fucking lever of government and they persecuted and the police shot white people at a hugely disproportionate rate and they're mass incarcerated. He was like, yeah, sure. If you want to, if yeah, if you literally want to just flip the colors, black and white as a hypothetical, then yes, it's not about the colors black and what, like if you just flipped everything and And it was just the pigment was different. Then yes, of course.

0:38:38 Lydia: And then they entered the debate stage with America. Yeah right.

0:38:56 Thomas: But that's meaningless. Like it doesn't matter.

0:38:56 Lydia: That's not actually what happened. It's not reality.

0:38:59 Thomas: Yeah. It's not as though our son is colorblind or someone who has like a sees color differently interacts with race different. Like it has nothing to do with that. Like it's not the literal colors. It's like the situation we're in.

0:39:11 Lydia: I'll be honest like like this sentence in particular just feels so clansy to me like it feels like exactly what a Ku Klux Klan person would have said yeah

0:39:20 Thomas: Yeah. He's very clancy. He's getting a little clancy, whoa, whoa.

0:39:23 Lydia: Hate against whites is every bit as bad as hate against Jews like that's totally what a clans guy would have said it's a universal principle or it's not a principle it's just a preference yeah it's juste God transparent

0:39:26 Thomas: You're getting clancy with me. Hey, hey, you're getting Clancy. He buy me dinner first yeah it's so dumb it's just this really really frustratingly stupid literalist like yeah yeah it is a thing it is tactic that I very much understand from my previous life as a conservative annoying person which

0:39:41 Lydia: So white it's transparent when

0:39:53 Thomas: Is trying to yeah yeah which is and I was never like don't worry I was

0:39:54 Lydia: We were not together other yeah

0:39:58 Thomas: Ever like this but but like as a kid I could could have seen making arguments adjacent to this of like oh it's just as bad if you do that because I had no fucking knowledge I had complete ignorance of the real

0:39:58 Lydia: It was more like a debate me bro kind of situation

0:40:09 Thomas: World no no I did not really debate me bro but it's juste like in a vacuum when you're raised not with knowledge of the world you know it's jest like yeah no of course if someone was being mean to a white person because they're white that is the same as being mean do a black person as well it's like in a vacuum again if you were in a back we don't live in vacuums that we would die if we were in in a vacuum. That's a scientific fact.

0:40:29 Thomas: But anyway, it's such a tactic that I noticed with a particular almost always male. I don't know why. And that's me being, you know, probably a racist in his mind. That's me Being a racist against men or something. But I don' encounter women making these types of arguments as much. And I don know why maybe it's because men do all the fucking talking everywhere. Could be that. But let me know if you think I'm right on that or wrong. The thing they do is is really home in on a particular logical black and white thing that's like language -based and just refuse to budge from that. So you'll be like, but disproportionate policing and like systemic, all that. And they'll be Like, if it's not a universal principle, then it's not. So if it'S not in every case, if hatred against white people is not the exact same as hatred against black people, then It'S not a principle. It'S a prep, you know, It'S It's like they're focused on this like hyper specific logic thing that like doesn't matter.

0:41:27 Lydia: Yeah I I think on the end of like not seeing women engage in this argument this way I think is like a whole episode probably by itself so like I I don't know if we want to go down that road but yeah

0:41:36 Thomas: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But at least that the observation, do you think that observation is right or no? Like that that's because I just I've never come across women arguing in that way.

0:41:43 Lydia: Yeah no I I I think that's fair I think women tend to argue differently and that's for a variety of reasons and some of it is because they're shut out of those spaces where they might have participated in more of this type of debate or argument style but uh yeah it does not happen from my

0:42:06 Thomas: It's really interesting. Interesting. I mean, there's all kinds of crap that obviously only men do, because like when there's the underlying basic kind of overvaluing of men's voices, I think it very much comes from a deep seated, almost evolutionary thing in that throughout history, we have to be more scared of men than women. Like it's just men are like throughout history, more violent. They're the things we worry about. Like when we worry about something we're worried about, you know, it's like we're worried about the men.

0:42:26 Lydia: Perspective

0:42:35 Thomas: So, so like if there's a dumb argument style and a man does it, we might give it a little more credence than if a woman does it. And we're like, oh, that's stupid. You're a woman. So I don't, you know what I mean? Like, I don'T know if that's, that'S what I, well, it is that. Yeah. That's what, it's the same thing.

0:42:34 Lydia: Yeah yeah and also you know just misogyny and yeah yeah yeah it's all just just baked in and yeah

0:42:51 Thomas: Yeah. No, I'm very much saying that. It'S like the, I think, I I think that's maybe like an underlying that's always been my theory of like a reason why there's so much misogyny and like while there's the empathy in particular, like the empathy thing, reading like Cape Man and a lot of that, you know, like this over regard for men because they're the ones we fear. Like they're the ones who, if we're worried about a conflict or something turning violent or anything like that, like we are worried about men. I really think that has a broad and large effect. And even if it's a small effect, the fact that it's so like broad and it's so everywhere, you know, I think just vastly skews the gender dynamics of our society and just makes men the priority so much more than they should be.

0:43:39 Lydia: But I guess like teasing that apart from power can get complicated right like because men are often the ones in power and so then you don't necessarily fear the result because of man but also because of the assumed power that they have largely because they're a man right like so figuring out exactly like like how to tease that apart I think it's complicated But yeah, it's interesting.

0:44:00 Thomas: That's a good point. Yeah. It might be the feedback loop result where it's like, yeah, it's kind of one in the same eventually. Yeah, that's interesting. Okay, sorry. Getting back on to this.

0:44:08 Lydia: Back to the white man.

0:44:09 Thomas: Yeah, we've been so racist toward him. I think we need to give him a chance.

0:44:13 Clip: Universal principle it is not a principal it's just a reference it's identity politics and we've had enough of that and that's the one thing that will destroy this country certainly the only

0:44:24 Thomas: I'm sorry. The biggest, most oppressed group is white men. Now, enough of these identity politics. You fucking idiot. We are literally, we have been harmed more than Jewish people. No, enough of this.

0:44:30 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Now that I'm done declaring my identity in front of all of you. Yeah

0:44:44 Thomas: So funny.

0:44:45 Clip: Thing that we'll save it is the understanding that principles upon which America was founded apply to every single human being always. So I just want to say that by way of saying that I'm not just situationally opposed to anti-Semitism, I'm actually opposed to

0:44:53 Lydia: Dot dot dot. Yeah

0:44:57 Thomas: But it is a more tepid response than Ben Shapiro, I feel like. It's interesting. I mean, it's the response is there, but it feels more tepid. Also, his stuff is, I think, maybe another reason there could be more of a tepид response is the stuff he's saying very much so people in the crowd might be thinking this is supposed to apply to the left at all. And they're like, wait a minute, I don't want to treat people charitably or do it. It's like, no, yeah, yeah.

0:45:17 Lydia: Hmm. No no this is about Nick Fuentes. Remember like like this is basically being like no we need to like also treat Nick Fuentes like a human being here too. And why are you getting mad at me for having a human being on my show? He's just another human being, you know?

0:45:33 Thomas: Yeah. Sorry. Were you saying that's what they're saying or sorry?

0:45:35 Lydia: No, no, no. I'm just saying like from Tucker's perspective, he's like, you know, the defense mechanisms. Right.

0:45:38 Thomas: Oh, yeah yeah. But yeah, right. No, exactly. It's like, but is that lost on some of the audience and they're like, wait, do I have to?

0:45:47 Lydia: Yeah.

0:45:47 Thomas: Does this mean I have to think Joe Biden isn't evil because I want to think he's evil? You know what I mean? So like, I wonder if that's part of the tepid response or if there's more like, I don't know if there's more Ben people here than I don't know. We 'LL see as it goes on. You know, smattering of applause.

0:46:06 Clip: Anti-semitism and I hope that the ADL will join me. I'll send the money, by the way, if they come out against hate aimed at anyone and everyone.

0:46:16 Thomas: Such imagine coming up with a way to be annoyed and mad at the ADL right now that I'M like, nah. Yeah.

0:46:26 Lydia: Well, yeah. No, because he's basically saying like if the ADL comes out and says that hate against Nazis is also wrong, then I will send the money like what are you doing yeah

0:46:33 Thomas: What are you talking? What do you think groups form in order to do you know like why do you feel like hey we're a group that's gonna say all the bad things are always bad donate to

0:46:38 Lydia: Weird cut us a check thank you so much

0:46:45 Thomas: Us yeah people have interest groups like as much as the adl fucking sucks now it's funny to see like I almost was like oh you're perking up you anti -ad uh never mind they need to also cry about white people. Yeah.

0:46:56 Lydia: Yeah no it's just because they don't like Nazis and he would like them to like Nazis yeah

0:47:00 Clip: But let me just say something more broadly about where the conservative movement, whatever that is, the people who voted for Trump, the Trump coalition, and the supposed civil war I don' think, and I've had cause to think a lot about this because I've been unwittingly

0:47:20 Lydia: Says one side of the Civil War. I don't know.

0:47:23 Thomas: Man, I don't know. This is really interesting, actually.

0:47:27 Clip: Involved in the proxy war. There are two things going on here, and I'm not guessing. One is jockeying for position post-Trump. So Trump created this amazing coalition, bringing in people who had never voted Republican before, but were very enthusiastic about him. And that coalition took over the most powerful government in the history of the world. So there's a lot at stake here. And so the question becomes, who gets to run it after? Who gets That's the machinery when the president exits the scene. And there are a lot of people in Washington, maybe even in this room, who aren't quite sure what they want, but they know they don't want J.D. Vance, okay? And so the attack, and you heard it from the stage tonight, there's someone here who's a very bad man, and he's friends with J. D. Vence.

0:47:39 Lydia: That's fair.

0:48:17 Clip: I am sad about being used in a proxy war over politics in which I'm not involved in any level I'm non-advisor to anybody but I just think I should say that out loud okay there are people who are mad at JD Vance and they're stirring up a lot of this in order to make sure he doesn't get the nomination so that this is true so this raises the obvious question which is why are they mad at J.D. Vance. Such a nice guy, which he is. They're mad at JD Vance because he is the one person, and things could change of course, but right now, who really kind of buys the core idea of the Trump coalition. Now what is that idea? Ladies and gentlemen,

0:48:43 Thomas: Such a nice guy. Do you know? What is it? What do you think he's going to say? Just keeping you involved. What do You think he is going to? What does he think the Trump idea is? No, like what would he say? I mean, that's kind of that is it. But in what language would they put it? Yeah. Yeah.

0:48:59 Lydia: I hate immigrants. Yeah? Oh, like branding? Yeah, just America first.

0:49:17 Clip: Anyone know? Anyone know? America first. It's America first, it's really simple. Which I

0:49:17 Thomas: There you go. Ding, ding, ding. She nailed it, everyone. That wasn't an edit. Lydia actually nailed that.

0:49:18 Lydia: There it is. There there it is. Yeah.

0:49:26 Thomas: Very good.

0:49:26 Clip: Which I notice, some people are pretty anxious to retire that phrase by putting America first.

0:49:32 Thomas: So that's really interesting because like he says, I'm not guessing. So I imagine he's referring to something like maybe some back chatter thing he has access to in terms of something. But I just don't really see how is he like, I think the things he's saying about a kind of a proxy war going on about the future after Trump. That's obviously true. Like there's going to be that there would be that if there's a Democrat, like there'd be some sort of battle going on about the future of whatever. But how does that have to do with this feud? I think that's a pretty weak connection. I think I think again, he just doesn't understand. And I think he's fundamentally incapable of saying, say what you want about Ben Shapiro. I think Ben Shapiro identifies his Judaism with Israel and is really really concerned about that issue. I disagree with him vehemently on that, but I at least grant that like, that's what he's doing. Like, I think he, yeah, I Think he links and I, and I have, I have a lot of empathy for that to some degree when I've talked with Jewish friends about like, you know, we've been persecuted throughout history

0:49:58 Lydia: The future of the party. It's real for him. Yeah? Yeah.

0:50:36 Thomas: And there's a feeling that like never again means never again. And we're not as a people going to tolerate anything like that. Like I understand that. And I at least understand that that's, what's going on. I'm not going to, I don't think there's any need to like, nah, it can't really be that. It's got to be a proxy war. And I think that just, again, is so revealing of Tucker Carlson. I think he just doesn't think people believe what they say ever.

0:50:59 Thomas: That's why also with the naughty thing, I think it goes with that. Like I really think he doesn't believe that people believe what They say. Yeah. I'm just putting this together now, but I think It goes along with, and you wouldn't know this as not a white man, but no, It goes Along with, I Think a lot of white men, a lot. And this is, I I think the proof is in the pudding of the proof of the pudding isn't. No, it's the actual phrase. There's one we got to fix. Don't take my nouns verbs.

0:51:23 Lydia: Proof is in the pudding.

0:51:23 Thomas: The proof of The Pudding is in The Tasting is actually the phrase. But now people say The Proof is in Well, no, I think this one's been forever.

0:51:27 Lydia: Oh, because of the viral YouTube guy. Oh. Okay.

0:51:31 Thomas: I think people just I think it's that's too long of a phrase. And I think we're like, I don't have time for that.

0:51:35 Lydia: Gotcha. Yeah yeah.

0:51:35 Thomas: The proof is In The Pudding. It's just easier to say.

0:51:38 Lydia: We get it. Mm.

0:51:39 Thomas: Yeah, but it's like the proof of whether or not The Puding is good is when you actually taste it, I think is kind of what it's getting at. It's like The Longer. Anyway, point is, the proof of this bigotry is in the MAGA, which is I think a lot of white men throughout the, you know, 90s, 2000s, 2010s had this feeling out of, I think, sheer audacity that like, well, people don't really believe this PC crap, right? Like everybody's everybody, you knows, is like me. And they think like black people, you Know, they all think of that, but they're just faking it to be polite. Like that's what Tucker believed. I strongly believe that. I think Tucker and people like Tucker think, and a lot of people think this, it's depressing. They think that no one actually believes in political correctness stuff, like social justice stuff, wokeness stuff. They think, I strongly believe this. They thinkthat it's just about trying to like gain status in some way or be cool in some way. Yeah. And it's like, I think he genuinely thinks that people don't believe that.

0:52:30 Lydia: Points. Yeah Yeah. Mm -hmm.

0:52:38 Thomas: Relating that back to the Ben Shapiro thing, like, Like, I really think he's just trained to think that everyone always has an ulterior motive. And, you know, sometimes people do, especially in his bullshit line of work. Like, sometimes pundits, politicians, yeah, like, they're honestly, like a lot of times they will. But, like when it comes to Ben Shapiro, man, I don't doubt Ben Shapiro sincerely cares about Israel. Like, I don't doubt that.

0:52:58 Lydia: Yeah well I mean it comes down to to his like position on identity politics right where he waxes on about being a white man and like why are you going to go after cis white men but identity politics are bad and what we're seeing is identity politics is inevitable because you have an identity yeah

0:53:18 Thomas: I guess the point I'm making is he can't even believe that Ben is doing identity politics. He thinks it has to be like a, uh,

0:53:22 Lydia: Yeah no I know because he thinks all identity politics is fake right except when except when he's talking about being a white man

0:53:27 Thomas: Does he think that? I don't think he thinks that, though, because I think he would say that like black people are only looking out for black people because of identity politics. You know what I mean? So like he could put Ben into that category. Yeah.

0:53:36 Lydia: Yeah okay I guess you're right yeah yeah that it's not necessarily fake but that it'S used as a tool yeah

0:53:43 Thomas: Yeah. And it's weird. It's just weird to me because of all the things I think Ben is full of shit on. I don'T doubt that he cares about Israel. I bet he cares a lot. Like he seems to wear that on his literal sleeve or whatever. Like he he like actually. Yeah, on his head. He like and that's his religion. That's his in group. That's His people. It is his culture. It'S what he cares ABOUT. I take that sincerely. I disagree strongly with where he goes with that because I think it's just terrible. I think you can have too much empathy with a group and it causes you to not see other groups as people. And that's really, really, Really bad. Sometimes there is too much focus, not really about empathy per se, but it's like it's about too much. Empathy on one side causing you to get so emotionally invested in that side that you're willing to overlook just horrible things going on to the other side.

0:53:55 Lydia: Head the loss of shared humanity right yeah

0:54:31 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. But I don't doubt that there's that empathy. I think that's what Ben's doing. Like, why would you think this is about J .D. Vance? I don'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW THIS HELPS OR HURTS J. J. D. Vance. Am I crazy? It's just, I feel like he's trying to just hijack something. Like, he's trying to, like, make it, I think this is him trying to discredit it in a weird way, you know? And I don't, I don't get it. It's just very weird.

0:54:54 Ad: [Ad break 4 — ad music]

0:54:54 Thomas: NOW WE'RE GONNA TRANSITION TO, like, his PUTTING AMERICA FIRST STUFF, AND this is where like, I think there is a genuine belief out of Tucker. And it's the weird thing is when Tucker starts talking about all this stuff, I got this feeling that like, oh, wow, this is almost kind of irrelevant in a way because Tucker might in a ways be like a true believer. He's a true believer in something awful. Don't get me wrong.

0:55:19 Thomas: But I feel like he's a true believer in the America first thing. I think he's a true believer in that and what's funny is that like even though that's all about trump and that's what trump allegedly was doing and that like all of that is there and yet it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day it's who's running our government and sometimes they're doing america first stuff but a lot of times they're not like even on its own terms like even if we were just to grant like okay america first means don't spend our money on foreign wars or whatever fine I could could agree with that. You know, like, yeah, sure.

0:55:50 Lydia: Don't love the name but yeah

0:55:52 Thomas: Now, does it mean actually taking care of Americans? No, it doesn't mean actually taken care of Americans, really. That's why it's stupid. But like, what's funny is like, I almost see Tucker in a way as being this sort of, this is why I'm so interested in this is I don't know what's true here, but, but I got a feeling and I don'T, again, I donT know if this is true, butI got a feeIng for a moment here that like, wait, is he kind of irrelevant in a wAy?

0:55:57 Lydia: Yeah

0:56:12 Thomas: Like, it just doesn't really matter. It matters like who kind of hijacks Trump for their purposes in a waY and who's in the government and who'S doing what they want within the government? I don't know. Well, here, let's listen a bit.

0:56:12 Lydia: Right

0:56:27 Clip: It's not a complicated concept, it's a really simple concept. The US government, the largest organization in human history with the most well-funded military in history, ought to, in all the decisions it makes, put the interests of American first. That's it. Oh, that's creepy. Sounds kind of fascist. You're going to invade Poland now? No, just the opposite. In fact, the original America Firsters were kind of against wars, and the current ones are too. Actually, it just means what it sounds like. The government ought to serve the people who pay for it, who elected them, in whose name the business

0:56:37 Thomas: I don't think that's true. Is it? Maybe that's, is that true?

0:57:09 Lydia: This did not age well

0:57:14 Thomas: I actually, I think it does because he is actually making a point and you know what? It was very quick, but I caught it, you know, on the 15th time around, he actually started off and it's going to be like 10 minutes ago by now. He started off with an interesting language construction, which I think reveals that he's unhappy with a lot of what Trump's doing. Cause the thing he started with is, I can't remember remember the exact wording, but it's there. If you go back, it was something like what I believed in a reason that I tried to work to get Trump elected. It was something like that. And then he starts going off on this thing. And I actually think this does age well because he's already saying he doesn't agree with the Venezuela thing.

0:57:43 Lydia: Well hmm oh uh -huh

0:57:53 Thomas: He doesn't he like give the devil his due. He doesn'T want them to be doing foreign wars. He's actually that's why there's a big schism. I think that's more the schism than whatever the fuck he's talking talking about with JD Vance, like the schism is that Tucker Carlson actually doesn't agree with that stuff. He's super anti helping Ukraine at all.

0:57:53 Lydia: Hmm

0:58:12 Thomas: I thought he was like a Russian stooge based on how fucking Russian stoof like he was being, but I don't know. Yeah. Like I find myself wondering, like, is he just really like, it's dumb, but like he's very isolationist. And I think he also, obviously anytime his enemy is doing something, he's going to kind of go over to the other side of that too much, like to trigger the libs or that kind of thing. Like, I think it might be that. Like, he's taken a ton of flack for the Israel thing. Like, He's gone against, you know, Trump, really. He's going against Trump. He's against spending American money on anyone else.

0:58:11 Lydia: Right right but he's being consistent hmm just isolationist sure sure yeah interesting mm

0:58:49 Thomas: Now, this is idiotic for a million reasons. Please don't get me wrong. This is idiotical for a billion reasons. And he's not actually in favor of spending American money to help fucking Americans. He just thinks that if we don't spend it helping other people, well, that somehow helps us. I don't know how fucking how, because you're not using it for anything. But anyway, I think it does age well. It's very weird.

0:59:14 Thomas: Okay. I think I can skip a little bit of this because he's saying everyone's for it. And a lot of people, even if you explained it in different terms, even Democrats might be for it and it might be true. Like if you explained it in a different terms and said, do you believe we shouldn't be spending money on foreign wars instead? Spend it on Americans. Yeah. But you don't do that. Like, I don'T know. Look, I confess. I DON'T follow Tucker. Could be that he's like, yeah, let's do a Medicare for all bill or something, but like, I don't think he is. So again, I would love to be like, sure, man, America first, let's not spend money on foreign wars. But the part that gets me is then like, what are we doing with that money? And I think what he really wants to do with it is I guess businesses get to keep it. Rich people get to Keep it. Cause then maybe, maybe, and this is giving him some benefit of the doubt that I don'T know if he's deserves, like maybe he thinks if American people are richer than trickle down, blah, blah. Everybody will be a better, I guess. I don't know. Or has he ever supported anything that's like actual helpful to Americans policy, like actually spending money on Americans? I don' t know.

0:59:38 Lydia: No I doubt that no I say that flippantly

1:00:13 Thomas: I don t think so. Yeah, I don know. Yeah.

1:00:15 Lydia: I'm really not sure 100 but my instinct is

1:00:19 Thomas: No, I agree. Because like there are the people, though, sometimes where like there was that weird universal basic income thing. And like, you know, we know that there are really shitty conservatives who like say they want a universal basic basic income which would be spending money on americans and you know yeah yeah which is like okay great that doesn't do fucking anything

1:00:32 Lydia: Yeah no I think he's america first but also don't spend money on anything thing like I yeah hoard it like he's yeah he's smog it's

1:00:41 Thomas: Yeah so yeah he goes on like uh the only legitimacy the american government can have is if it's america first because that's that's why we consent to be governed so you'll put us for you know stuff that like okay but like then you're just pushing it one step further because I think a lot of the money that gets spent like in foreign and aid is ultimately because it does help America. Like we could recast a lot. I'm not saying all, cause I do genuinely believe that we should spend money to help other people just help them. I believe that, you know, I don't think we should spent all our budget on it.

1:01:16 Lydia: Just the right thing to do is yeah

1:01:19 Thomas: Like, obviously like we also need to take care. The government should take care of Americans more than other people in the world. Like sure. Of course it's our tax dollars and that should mean giving us healthcare and that shouldn't mean doing a bunch of stuff for us. Like I agree with that.

1:01:30 Lydia: And then a certain percentage and the way that you would approach money management in any other way a certain percent goes towards charitable causes and yeah

1:01:35 Thomas: And it should be more than the point fucking five percent that it was that we now gutted and killed like hundreds of thousands of people for no fucking reason. I want to both say that that is better for America and you could easily argue for it for America first. And it is. But also, I mean, I don't want to.

1:01:45 Lydia: God it's so awful and it's worse for humanity and so then what kind of country are we

1:01:57 Thomas: Yeah. Exactly. And I want to both that like, I think it doesn't need to be America first, I think it should like you said, just like any budget. Hey, we have we're so rich. Let's help help other people. But setting that aside, you could easily cast tons of our policy as America first. And in fairness to the fucking warmongers, they do tend to cast that as America first. Oh, we need our safety.

1:02:22 Thomas: We got to protect Americans. And credit to Tucker Carlson, again, to give the devil his due. He cast that aside. He's like, that's not real. They're not... What are the people of Gaza going to come bomb us? That's not true. Okay. All right. Give me credit for that I

1:02:33 Lydia: Right yeah these poor dying dying pregnant women that are eating clay because they have access to no food. They're going to be the ones that are going to. Yeah. Cool.

1:02:39 Thomas: Know. He says a lot of stuff that, again, it's hard to endorse anything he says, but he makes a lot of statements to that effect in the speech. They're like, yeah, man. Cool. All right. I guess I'm glad you're saying that. So anyway, that's one thing I did want to say about his whole America First thing is like, it doesn't really suck. Like, I think it's a convenient package to put all his messaging in. And again, I can't, I feel like it's kind of genuine, but I think the easy response is like, yeah, but you could argue that a bunch of progressive policy is America first. Like it's going to help Americans first. It is. Giving us healthcare helps Americans. Doing foreign aid helps America. It gives us a good image throughout the world. Isn't that good? Isn't that beneficial? It helps us. Nations want to cooperate with us. Us being a leader on the world stage, you know how fucking good that was for us and how much it's blown right now?

1:03:23 Lydia: Oh, my God. I know.

1:03:34 Thomas: And I'm conflicted because it's maybe not good. Like it's made me not good that we've had so much influence. But as an American, it's undoubtedly in my pure self -interest, if it was just like purely we were selfish as Americans, it was better that the world revolved around us to the degree that it did. And it really did. Like the currency, the language, like I'm not saying all places and all peoples, but I'm saying largely the world economic system and culture revolves around America to a disproportionate degree.

1:04:04 Thomas: And that has been fucked, like the dollar not maybe being like the currency that people kind of value throughout the world as sort of like it's not like everyone's default currency, but it's a currency that has a lot of value to everyone that has actually. It's funny, there's an economics thing about this. There's an economist who wrote a paper that that's probably resulted in you and I and every American having effectively a 0 .25 % to 0 .5 % reduction in the interest rates on every loan we've ever gotten.

1:04:34 Thomas: Isn't that interesting? Because our currency is so valued. It's really complicated economics, but this is a real thing. This was an economist that Ezra Klein interviewed some time ago that I found that really fascinating. It just has to do with, you know, like macroeconomics. I took that class, but holy fuck, is it complicated? It's a really complicated topic. But one way or the other, as not at all an expert, my, of course you did, you did great in every class. My understanding is that, well, I bet you explained it.

1:04:56 Lydia: I did great in that class. No. I do great in the class and then it leaves my brain.

1:05:08 Thomas: You're good at we would be such a good team because you are good at all the things of class that are actually more important to getting a good grade and I'm like I don't care about any of that but I do kind of want to like understand some of these concepts and think about them more and not do homework we're a great team there

1:05:20 Lydia: Yeah oh no yeah and the homework where they gave me like extra credit if I made it like look nice with colored pencils and stuff I would do all that oh yeah

1:05:26 Thomas: You go uh if we could have been a duo throughout school no class would have gotten anything less than a plus but it's something to the effect of Like because our currency is so valued and because, you know, like, because there's always people throughout the world who want to borrow money, like it's just some one way or the other, like you would almost think that would have the opposite effect, but one way or the other, there's a paper that suggested that's been like a benefit to us as Americans. Again, America fucking first, you idiot. That has possibly been a benefit for us. To us of like 0 .25, 0 .5 % on a loan. That's a lot of money. Think about the whole fucking nation, every mortgage, every whatever, even if it's just the lowest number of 0 .25%, that is fucking significant.

1:06:09 Thomas: Again, globally speaking, I guess like maybe I'm like, okay, maybe I am not that sad because America kind of sucks. So maybe it's not terrible if we aren't that powerful on the world stage. But I also worry that who fills that vacuum? You know, like Russia shouldn't, China shouldn't. I'm not more happy if Russia or China, Well, who knows, though? If things get bad enough here, then sure. Maybe it is better.

1:06:24 Lydia: Yeah yeah I mean ideally it's that you have people in power who care about people right and And like, obviously, that's the that's ultimately the goal. But like for America to be like the it girl, you know, that that holds a lot of power. Just think about like when you go in to make deals and stuff and people respect you as a country and like you specifically as a leader, they respect you and they want to be your friend. You know, like there. I just think about Obama walking into a room versus Trump walking into her room and and how other countries approach those conversations and those deals and staff. You are more effective yeah exactly and and so like all I'm saying is it is america first to be an it girl so that's my platform vote lydia 2028 oh thank

1:06:51 Thomas: Yeah, me. Nice. Awesome. Yeah yeah. Yeah our word is worthless now too.

1:07:14 Thomas: Yeah Yeah. Nice, I was trying to I will I would vote for you. I'm trying to skip, but I realized I wanted to say that anyway, because it is an interesting, like, again, I think it, oh, of course. Yeah. But I am skipping some amount of video time because he talks about, you know, the America First stuff. And it's like, hey, man, if we lived in a world where that was a political debate we could have and it mattered, that'd be fun. I'd love to have that debate. Hey, actually, all this stuff is America First because it's a political thing. But we don't live in that world because it'S just fascism versus not fascism right now. But let's see what we can skip to here.

1:07:22 Lydia: You please this is gonna go two parts on this tucker thing so yeah yeah

1:07:51 Clip: That's all it means. Now there are two things to know about this idea. The first is almost everyone's for that. So once you realize that that's the statement at the center of the debate, it all becomes pretty clear. Really clear, actually. It's not an ideological debate. There's nothing ideological about that.

1:07:51 Thomas: Here so he says you know american citizens come first etc etc and then he's like essentially going to like that's all that matters you know and it's like it's again I let's just listen to

1:08:16 Clip: I've got all kinds of kooky ideological views. I love Knowles' list of all the views. I've probably had most of them in my long and varied life. I just kind of want to see a good faith effort to improve the country. And I'm ever aware that I'm not exactly sure the right way a lot of times. Are tariffs the best way to help the country? All I really care about is that the people in charge care. Care. That they love the people they lead. That is the first and most important requirement

1:08:46 Lydia: Oh well wow okay all right

1:08:46 Thomas: This and that is what I've always said about donald trump is selflessly he loves the people he leads uh I'm gonna let it go a little longer before we yeah it's so

1:08:55 Lydia: That's shocking shocking that they drop AI shit on top of their heads.

1:09:03 Clip: Of leadership. A father who loves his children may make mistakes, probably will, inevitably will. I did. But if he loves his kids, he'll do a pretty good job and they'll be fine.

1:09:05 Thomas: Funny yeah okay I could probably I skip a little about that.

1:09:15 Clip: People will convince you you have no agency or control. You have a lot of control. You just changed the government. Good. But if you want to know what the debate is going forward and what your job is going forward, it's holding your leaders to that very simple standard. Not on tariffs or any of these specific policy questions necessarily, but on their motive. Can you look me in the face and explain to me why the thing that you are doing, the money you're appropriating can you tell me why that helps our country and our people tell me how and if you're you're doing the whole shut up racist thing then I have a right to question your motives actually why can't you answer the question

1:10:02 Lydia: But people do answer the question. People do answer that question. That is so obnoxious.

1:10:12 Ad: [Ad break 5 — ad music]

1:10:13 Thomas: This is diabolical because I've been thinking about this conceptually and it's so fucking convenient. And one of the themes that we've talked about through a couple of these is like, what is the it that brings all of them together? I think it's white Christian nationalism, really. But it's interesting to hear different ones of them talk through that, you know, because like, you know we're going to have non -white people kind of talk about that here a little bit, uh, different speeches. And they wouldn't say it's white Christian nationalism or we're going to have non -Christian sometimes. And they wouldn'T say it'S Christian, you know, like it'S what all holds it together. And I think this is in the same way that Michael Knowles' thing was pretty diabolical. Cause it'S like, Oh, it'S not something can'T quite put my finger on it. It'S not somethin' you can learn in an immigration pop quiz. It's like, yeah, you're fuckin' talking about white people, dude. Like I know, I think THIS is like, maybe like slightly less racial, but it'S very convenient convenient because it's so funny that he says it's a simple question. He's like, oh, it's simple question, it' s so simple. It's not about terrorists, it is not about blah, blah, blah. It' s just this thing of motive, which by the way, he spent 10 minutes talking about how he shouldn' t question motive and you should blah, bla, bla motive, motive, and then he' s like, it' S a simple test. If you want to know the one key test of like, should they be in charge or not? It' S do they love America and are they putting America first? Great, man. That' s awesome. That's real actionable how do I know that how do I tell that give me some information well it's very convenient because the way you tell that is tucker carlson tells you that they're saying that

1:11:40 Thomas: Yeah he's going to use his powers of divination to divine whether or not someone is actually cares about america and wouldn't you know it the the white men do and the black women don't or

1:11:41 Lydia: Tune into his show on his channel.

1:11:55 Thomas: The you know the whatever the kamala harris is the whoever yeah they don't that's it's useless man but it's it's a perfect tactic for this kind of bullshit you know because it sounds like something you're like yeah I should love this country first and then you realize it's just a placeholder to be able to put your own bigotries it's just a way to beable to say well oh who does just so happen they're not he's gonna say he loves all people equally or whatever he's not bigoted sure you can say that I think he believes I actually think he beliefs that about himself but he's just blind to it that oh what wouldn't you know it just so happens that all All the people who actually love America are a certain kind of people, mostly conservative first, you know, but like also they

1:11:55 Lydia: The others. Yeah,

1:12:36 Thomas: Tend to be white and that it's hard to tease apart which is which there, but there's huge overlap and all the people whose motives you can instantly doubt. Well, maybe they're more often women. Maybe they're More often nonwhite. Maybe they'm more often not Christian, you Know, whatever it is, but he can think he's doing a real thing, but He's just doing a bigotry with more steps or fewer step might be fewer steps. Actually, he does a thing where it's like, I'm not going to denounce people. People your policy and this is more specifically kind of you know responding to ben I'm not going to denounce people etc etc and he makes an interesting reference here that I don't know about if and if I know you I feel like you'll look this up he says like oh my brother is my best friend and he once said something lunatic is his words all these reporters wanted him to like denounce him and he's like I'm Not going to do that you know because he loves his brother he's like if my brother went on a murder spree I'm NOT going to denounce him I'm going to say don't do that but I'm not gonna know you know it's like I don't know what his brother said but but anyway so we can skip through that a little bit

1:13:21 Lydia: I think what that's getting at, there's like a number of things. One instance is like back in 2015 even it said that a person that worked for him wrote an article with a mistake about mayor de blasio and one of the mayor's media people wrote to ask for a correction the author responded with a respectful disagreement the media person held their ground this is a woman by the way provided more supporting evidence and an editor told her to stop being whiny she reached out to carlson about his staff's unprofessional response it says that he lectured her on how she was responding so his brother responded supporting tucker's response there and said whiny little self-righteous bitch uh as part of that so this is like tweedle dee and tweedledum like they're they're together more often than I think any of us anticipated I didn't even know. And they are so close. Tucker named his son after him.

1:14:20 Thomas: My god uh yeah I didn't even know he had a brother yeah wow yeah

1:14:31 Lydia: So initially, when I looked at Buckley Carlson, it was coming back as deputy press secretary for J .D. Vance. But that's his son. That's Tucker's son that serves in that role, not his brother.

1:14:41 Thomas: Oh that's that's interesting to know

1:14:43 Lydia: Yeah. But his brother to this day, they are continuing this kind of back and forth sort of situation. Just yesterday, there have been articles coming out about some drama that's been happening on X, apparently, where it says writer Eitan Fischberger, a critic of Carlson's views on Israel, claimed on X that an upcoming episode of Tucker Carlson show featuring his brother Buckley would involve the Carlsons projecting their, quote, unresolved daddy issues and familial psychodrama onto the American public. Buckley Carlson responded with mockery of his own. So glad you will be watching, Eitan, he wrote. Do try and keep your clothes on and your hands firmly on the keyboard. Can't recall if we mentioned you specifically by name, but we sure did talk about your kind.

1:15:25 Lydia: And then Laura Loomer got involved and said the TPUSA humiliation ritual continues. Tucker's brother recently accused TPUSD executive Tyler Bauer of being a homosexual and often tweets attacks on President Trump and his biggest allies. So naturally, yeah.

1:15:41 Thomas: Well by the way tucker doesn't hate anyone for how they're born just so we're all clear

1:15:45 Lydia: So, naturally, Tucker is having him on his show. I'm sure TPUSA will continue platforming Tucker and his associates, though. Anything to not have moral clarity. Am I right? So we have Laura Loomer, who is a character

1:15:49 Thomas: Man I kind of want to watch that god I

1:15:57 Lydia: Unto herself, kind of chiming in here and saying, like, hey, these two are freaking idiots.

1:16:04 Thomas: Never thought I'd say this but can we get back to tucker carlson yeah but so it sounds like an awful sexist bigot probably

1:16:07 Lydia: Yeah, I know. I know." So anyway, a little side comment there. Yeah.

1:16:13 Lydia: And then he responded to that, calling Laura Loomer a relentless and bloodthirsty cheerleader of genocide, perpetual land theft, U .S.-focused espionage, blackmail, and extortion.

1:16:21 Thomas: Do you get a sexist thing in there

1:16:24 Lydia: No, not in that one. Not that time.

1:16:24 Thomas: No okay oh wow wow impressive I was I was counting on that I was ready for that yeah it's weird to be woker now than in 2015 because like I was gonna say that it's funny to think back to a time where that would have mattered and now trump is like quiet piggy and it just doesn't fucking they don't even pretend now

1:16:28 Lydia: You're waiting for it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Doesn't even register. People have forgotten yeah what

1:16:42 Clip: But anyway the point is you need to remember if you are a Christian and I think there are a lot of them in this room that Jesus makes demands on you and holds standards for you that are very different from those as my close friend Russell Brand so beautifully explained they're very different from the world which really is controlled by the by satan it's hard even to say that because it's so dark but it's also so true so don't be surprised are diagnosing the

1:17:11 Thomas: What I think we can skip a bit here a lot of jesusy stuff

1:17:19 Clip: Plank in the speck in our neighbor's eye. The whole thing begins with, I'm a pompous douchebag, I'll admit it. That's essential. It's essential, we are called to be righteous but not self-righteous. And we're also called, and I have to say this before opening it up to your hostile questions. We should also be very on guard against people who try to leverage the word of God, the words of Jesus, for political ends. That is a dangerous thing

1:17:55 Thomas: This is interesting where's he going with this

1:17:58 Clip: To do. I don't want to do that, and I attempt every time. This is all sort of new to me.

1:18:01 Thomas: This audience clapping for that sure this is the whole audience who's literally got a hat that says jesus wants to kill the other

1:18:02 Lydia: Like literally the entire event is that

1:18:11 Thomas: What like it's yeah it's a whole fucking thing the whole audience that is explicitly done the opposite of that is like, yeah, I totally agree with that.

1:18:11 Lydia: Jesus was MAGA yeah

1:18:20 Thomas: I agree with that. This is really telling. I think there's more here. It's interesting.

1:18:20 Lydia: Yeah

1:18:26 Clip: I'm so obviously not a great Christian that it's not like a lot of people are going to

1:18:27 Thomas: He's a newer Christian. Yeah, it's interesting, but

1:18:29 Clip: Be like, oh, I want to be like him. But there are people, particularly Christian ministers,

1:18:34 Thomas: I don't know when he converted.

1:18:36 Clip: I have noticed, who are preaching a political message and pretending that it's the gospel. So let me just say, and I think my theology is right, I'm hardly a theologian, God is not on any country's side. Certain countries can decide to be on God's side, And that is true for people too. Okay? God doesn't have a partisan affiliation. He doesn't have a nationality. And if someone is telling you otherwise, that is just not true. It is not true, and I would also call your attention to the very obvious prohibitions in the New

1:19:18 Thomas: Yeah. I love how that for a moment might be like, oh, that's true. Yeah refresh. I grew with that and then you realize the weight that's also meaningless. It just like when you say the only people who are the good people are the ones that put America first and you're like, well, how do you decide that? I just decided God isn't on any countryside countries can be on on God's side. Oh, okay. Which ones and why? Oh, us. It's like, that didn't do anything. That did not do anything at all. It just made you feel a little more godly while you were doing the thing you already wanted to do. It is useless. And same with the political party. I think he said, I do not know if he said that now or later, but he is like, God does not have a political affiliation. People can, you know, affiliate with God. It was like, yeah, okay, but you are just moving at one step that does not do nothing. Which people have aligned themselves with God? The people you say those are the ones who align themselves with god it's it's all there is here's the problem there's no god sorry man

1:20:11 Thomas: I hate to break it to you or if they're like just for fun I know I'm sure not everyone listening is an atheist there's either no god or things are exactly how they would be if there is no god you could believe there's a god but things are exactly how they Would Likely Be or at the very least they don't even retreat a little more just out out of being conciliatory. Things are exactly how they'd be if we've never heard from God, just at the very least. And so it's not very useful to say like, well, we have to be on God's, God's not on anyone's side. We have to be on his side. That doesn't just translate to the same thing, man. That just means like whoever you think is on God side is on god's side and then you've done nothing. So cool. Cool, man, here we go.

1:20:11 Lydia: First of

1:20:55 Clip: Testament against killing the innocent. We are not as Christians allowed to kill the innocent. Period. We are not. And you see elaborate arguments on behalf of doing so or ignoring it. Oh, that always happens in war. Well, you're right. One of the reasons I'm not that into wars. But when it does happen, unavoidably, we have to say that's wrong.

1:20:58 Thomas: Here we go, interesting. Okay, let him cook.

1:21:21 Clip: We have to acknowledge that was wrong. And I'm sorry for the extent to which I participated in it. Forgive me. Because killing people who committed no crime is immoral. It will always be immoral, and people who do it will be punished for it, and nations that endorse it will be punished for. That's a fact. And you are seeing now, you are

1:21:44 Thomas: Look, you know what's crazy is this was, once again, before Rene Good. But just listen to this.

1:21:52 Clip: Seeing now a very intense effort to convince you otherwise. Oh, it's fine. They deserved it. Really, do their children deserve it? If a man commits a crime, do we kill his kids? I don't care if it's in Minneapolis or Gaza City. No, we don't. They deserved it.

1:22:10 Thomas: Isn't that fucking crazy? What does he have in mind there? I'm trying to think. Like, I actually don't know. Like, is it just a random poll? Or is he maybe thinking about, like, George Floyd or something? Or like, what?

1:22:13 Lydia: Yeah I don't know who would that be phil castiel who was who was minneapolis

1:22:24 Thomas: Oh, yeah. Who is that? Oh, Philando Castile. Oh, that might be right. Well, George Floyd was Minneapolis. Yeah.

1:22:31 Lydia: Oh he was oh yeah yeah the fall of minneapolis the retcon yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah.

1:22:32 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah! Philando Castile might have also been. Oh, still Minnesota. Minnesota, but God, what the fuck's going on with Minnesota? What the hell? Okay.

1:22:38 Lydia: It says St. Paul, Minnesota. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know.

1:22:45 Thomas: Isn't that weird though? It's just like an ominous thing. Like, I don't know why he is not important, but it's just like a weird coincidence.

1:22:46 Lydia: Yeah and it's not like they were hosting it in Minneapolis.

1:22:55 Thomas: That's a good question. I don'T think so. I mean, it could just be a random poll, like, you know, middle America to might just be like a America, you Know, it's like a random Joe America city. I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT SURE WHY HE WOULD DO THAT. BUT ANYWAY, I LOVE this because it's like hey man fucking go nuts right now I can fully endorse what you're saying even if you don't actually live this principle because let me guess the next time uh black man or indeed renee good is murdered I haven't seen what he said on that actually

1:23:00 Lydia: No, Phoenix. Wow. Yeah yeah. Mm -hmm. I think he actually came out okay on that.

1:23:26 Thomas: Wait yeah no he actually was okay on that is wow okay see do you see what I mean like I've been this has been messing me up about tucker carlson he's still racist and he doesn't know it and he's a piece piece of shit, but like, it's just that he's actually just more consistent than I thought.

1:23:40 Lydia: Do you think he's always been that way though or?

1:23:42 Thomas: I don't know. I just, I don'T know a lot about it. I think this comes from not just, you know, I always just catch the clips of roasting him. And again, this is nothing like an endorsement. It's just, it'S, he'S different than I THOUGHT. He's like, the reason I'm making a big deal out of it is for once the topic of the show, but also it's like I think it is important to understand these fucking people, you KNOW, and like which ones of them want to do what and to whom. There are big differences, depending on if we're talking Stephen Miller or, frankly, Tucker Carlson. Like, if I could fucking kill Stephen Miller right now, I would. End of sentence. I don't even know why I said that. I just would love to. But if I Could Strike Him Dead and Replace Him with Tucker Carlson, I think I would, I think he's more evil. I think Tucker Carlson is evil. I think he would be bad. I think it would be less bad. I think it's interesting, especially as we, you know, as he said, as we do move into hopefully, hopefully, hopefully an era beyond Trump fucking whether or not that will be better or worse. I now don't know. I don't Know. I would have been more sure four years ago or whatever the first time, but now I don'T fucking know. They've ruined everything so badly. But anyway, I want to know what these people actually believe. And I do think that when we only consume the straw man versions of them,

1:24:53 Thomas: I shouldn't even say straw man. Honestly, it's not like, it's Not like they're being straw manned. It's just incomplete. When we only consume snippets of them, even though those snippets very often are very stupid and very harmful and very dumb. I'm not saying they're not. I'm nicht sagen, dass sie aus dem Kontext geklippt werden, aber es ist eine belegte Selektion von ihnen. And maybe I'm unique in this. I really didn't think he had this level of like coherence.

1:25:14 Lydia: Yeah, I think when he was on Fox News, too, it's like it's the regurgitation of talking points. Right. I don't know that you necessarily got to know what he personally thought. And I don'T think that he actually really ever shared what he personally thought. I DON'T I DONT KNOW. I DON'T KNOW. No, I'm not sure. Maybe on certain things. Maybe. I don't know. I don't. But I do think it is important to try to understand a little bit about these people. Because at the end of the day, we do share a country with them. Yeah, no, but like, but we share a country. And like, they're, they've been there for a long time. And they're part of our communities. I mean, like, Tucker Carlson's not in my community exactly. But people who follow Tucker Carlton are like they live in this area, too. And am I going to pretend like they don't exist? Or am I I going to say that they're all evil and just like write them out of my head completely maybe for some of them like you said like the Stephen Millers and things like that but I think that there are people where it's like we might be able to find nuggets oh

1:25:27 Thomas: Yeah, maybe. Well, I don't know about that. I think he did. I think that's I mean, I think I think you did. I think it did.

1:25:45 Thomas: They are overlords. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know.

1:26:12 Thomas: Well, just from a, even from a strategy standpoint. Oh, okay. I don't know about that. I'm not sure if I'm going with you on that, but I, I even just mean, yeah, I get it. You're very kind and I ,I get it, but also I'm even just talking about from a strategy standpoint, like we don't actually understand who they are, then we're not going to be able to predict their behavior. Yeah. Like, and I see this a lot, like people who comment on stuff, you know, and they'll just, and this is just internet, whatever. Like there's always the incentive to go to the most extreme all the time you know even if it's like the New York Times and I love bashing the New York Times.

1:26:17 Lydia: I don't know I this is my hope yeah then how do you actually fight them yeah yeah mm

1:26:43 Thomas: And then we get the person who's like yeah they're directly fascist they want the whatever. It's like no you're going too far man. They're not directly Trump. They are not Trump. But they are doing a very bad thing. But it's like everyone has to do the like it always has to be the most extreme version of whatever the thing is. So it's like take a fucking Gavin Newsom who just did something stupid.

1:27:05 Thomas: I don't like Gavin Newsom, but then the comment will always have to be, yep, he's exactly the same, right? He's just a, you know, fascist. He wasn't, it's like, come on. No, but it's just like a, you know there's the incentive to always go to the most extreme thing because also, especially when it's the most like mind reedy counterintuitive thing, because like there's the incentive for everybody to appear that they know more than other people online, you know? And so it's no, I actually know he is the, oh yeah, he is just a Republican and whatever he's not a republican he's not sorry he's just not it's like there's always always a fucking incentive to go the furthest possible thing

1:27:13 Lydia: You're not talking about my comments are you also feels

1:27:41 Thomas: Because I think it makes people feel like they know something other people don't sometimes they do yeah

1:27:46 Lydia: Like it enhances their ability to get likes which people are going to say that they don't care about that you do you do deep down that's why you're doing it is because you want to get noticed

1:27:50 Thomas: It's all of this no that's why they're commenting that's literally why theyre

1:28:01 Ad: [Ad break 6 — ad music]

1:28:01 Thomas: Commenting point is this is very interesting let's let him cook because I feel like this is one place where I just can pretty much say yeah man yeah yeah it's a funny image oh I'm so sorry yeah

1:28:19 Clip: And if we

1:28:27 Lydia: And then you're good yeah oh

1:28:28 Clip: Christian pastors make excuses for that, and that's not a partisan question. That is not a political question. That is the only question that matters. Do we have the right to murder people? And the resounding answer that Christianity provides us is, no. I don't get into the whole debate, you know, I didn't even know the terms.

1:28:48 Lydia: Shoot yeah

1:28:47 Thomas: Sometime oh there there's some unhappy people like there's a smattering of applause but the camera for some reason goes to like we fucking love murder shut up man we're super we love murder so murray seriously there's like some really unhappy people

1:29:03 Clip: I don't get into the whole debate, you know, I didn't even know the terms, dispensationalist, you know, or whatever, replacement, I'm an Episcopalian, okay, I don' t enter these debates, or was, and killing tens of thousands of children and then making excuses for it on behalf of a foreign government is not in there, it's antithetical to that. Sorry, it doesn't make me a hater, it makes me the opponent of hate so now that I've alienated most in the crowd with my staunch position against violence and power worship and money worship which are also prohibited and we should also keep that in mind and in all of us is the desire to suck up to power and accumulate money we don't need we're not allowed to sorry um anyway now I've made

1:29:15 Thomas: I can skip a little bit yeah it's not in the bible then why are you

1:29:54 Clip: Made everyone mad. Are there any questions that I can answer?

1:29:57 Thomas: Oh we're so close we get a couple questions from just tragically indoctrinated children where they're just like, I'm an eight-year-old girl and I want to someday be a fascist. What should I do? It's fucking stupid. But there's a pretty good one here that I do need to play. But holy crap, we just about covered all of that.

1:30:15 Lydia: We're doing

1:30:16 Clip: Is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, commonly known as AIPAC, is then being in America and not registered with FARA like all other lobbying groups in America? Is that that America first? Is it America first for senators, Congress, and even our president to take money from AIPAC? Is it American first to take from a foreign lobby so you'll send taxpayer dollars to that country? You know, even the question kind of answers itself. Obviously it isn't. And that's not an attack on Israel. It's certainly not anti-Semitism, despite the efforts efforts, if many, to claim that it is. It's just an obvious statement. And the fact that people are attacked for asking the question—this is something that I talked to Charlie a lot about in his final months, because he was being attacked as an anti-Semite for asking that question. We have memory hold that, but I was there, so I saw it. That's not the the right way. Don't attack people's motives. And I have a lot to attack people motives.

1:31:09 Thomas: Interesting. That's quite a bit of applause there.

1:31:33 Clip: I'm trying to remind myself, don't do that. Respond to what they're saying, right?

1:31:32 Thomas: I've been trying to remember. Fuck.

1:31:39 Clip: And so, no, of course it's not. And it's totally fine to ask about why a foreign government tried to sink one of our ships in 1967. That doesn't make you an anti-Semite, sorry. Those

1:31:49 Lydia: It oh wow the weird call out that ben shapiro got

1:31:58 Clip: No, of course not. And that's why they won't have the conversation. And my point is, you know, I'm 56. My kids are grown. I'm just not afraid of you at all. I don't hate you or anyone else. I love this country. I am going to be here until I die. I have an absolute God-given right to ask these questions. And I'm going to keep doing that. Period. And you can shoot me or put me in jail, but the questions won't go away.

1:31:58 Thomas: Yeah it was interesting

1:32:22 Clip: Way. So no, of course it's not. And that's why they respond with like rage and shame because you caught him doing something they can't defend. Duh. Orient the Republican party

1:32:34 Thomas: Oh man the next one is a guy who tries to like talk about his book it's so painful and he also does a thing I'm realizing too if you want actually this is um this is a bit of like pretty revelatory tucker carlson lore he is really hard of hearing and that actually might be why he makes that stupid fucking face all

1:32:48 Lydia: Huh and why he's always yelling

1:32:54 Thomas: The time yeah that could be that too but he so he keeps and partially it might be a tactic because whenever one of the questions listeners will be like, Oh, could you interview me? He just like, well, I can't hear you. So there's part of that, but he also can't hear the ones that he likes to. And he says like, Oh, when I was a kid and we were hunting and we needed earplugs, my dad said, just use the filter off the cigarette. And so, and so I can hear any of these questions.

1:33:19 Thomas: I know it's so awful, but it's like, that actually might be why he makes that fucking face all the time. And so it's I hate, I hate to elicit sympathy for Tucker Carlson, but that might be what he makes that dumb face so there's one more that uh you're oh boy you're just gonna you're gonna love this one

1:33:38 Clip: Around the single most popular and true message ever articulated by an American politician, which is put your own country first. That's why Trump got elected in 2016 is why he's president now. America first. And don't think of everything in narrow partisan terms. That's a

1:33:53 Thomas: That's the racism mainly the

1:34:00 Clip: Trap. Most people agree with that. Most Americans have more in common with each other than they disagree on. And almost everybody agrees on that. And almost everybody is willing to tolerate a good faith argument about how to get there. Except a few. And they're the ones running around calling everyone an anti-Semite but everyone else is like yeah of course that should be the debate and they'll vote for you they want that because they know they haven't had that that's the fact and what you're watching now attacking people on the attacking millions of americans because they're muslims it's disgusting and I'm a christian I'm not a muslim I'm never I know there's a lot of effort to claim I'm the secret jihadi I'm not you should not attack people on those grounds and you're seeing it from republic what the hell are you doing? What you're doing is trying to divide the country. And I've lived through 50 years of this crap. All these fake race wars that they're always promoting. Oh, go

1:34:18 Thomas: Sexism hold on what

1:34:36 Lydia: Huh wait what

1:34:54 Thomas: This is crazy it's crazy yeah holy

1:34:56 Clip: Hate each other while we loot the treasury. That's exactly what's going on. And most people are totally sick of that. So yes, there is a possibility for a huge coalition of decent people once they free their minds from the trap set for them by others and realize, wait wait a second, we all want to make this country better. And the 15% or 30% who don't, okay. You know, good luck in Maryland or wherever you wind up.

1:35:21 Clip: But the rest of us would like to fix it.

1:35:20 Lydia: What so

1:35:22 Thomas: Shit that's crazy because I was like oh man dude preach but then I'm realizing like oh wait I think he's talking about joe biden I think he was talking about like oh the liberals start these race wars by emphasizing race,

1:35:24 Lydia: Interesting yeah and they're the 15 % of the country that can just go live wherever you need to leave us the rest of us

1:35:40 Thomas: Emphasize race too much and be anti-white man. That's how we're doing. And then we're looting the treasury. It's like, dude, I mean, I guess I'm not sure, but that's what I think he's probably talking about. But for a moment I was like, dude, are you, do you understand what you're saying? Like that is what they've been, yes.

1:35:56 Thomas: That is what literally your whole party does all the time. That has been the point of all of it all the time I don't it's it's very weird then we get okay you're ready this is a great one here we go you're gonna love

1:35:50 Lydia: Alone yeah

1:36:10 Clip: My name's Harrison Tinsley. Didn't get to meet him until he was 15 months old One half custody, his mom tried to trans him. Long story short, I have full custody now.

1:36:18 Lydia: Lie

1:36:20 Thomas: It mom tried to trans him sure

1:36:25 Clip: But it's a miracle, and praise God, because I know so many dads that all have zero custody because of this. So Marjorie Taylor Greene's bill, Protect Children, Innocence Act, just passed the House. Can we pass it in the Senate and finally end this gender insanity, mutilating, hurting kids? I'm sorry, the last part, pull your face back from the microphone so I can hear you. Am I going to interview detransitioned people, is that the question? No no me as a dad and can we finally stop the mutilation of children with Marjorie Taylor Greene's bill okay I'm just gonna say when I was a child we did

1:36:31 Thomas: What oh

1:36:55 Lydia: Oh my god awkward

1:37:06 Thomas: Here's where here's oh

1:37:06 Clip: A lot of bird hunting and my father would always say when my brother and me would say pop you know everyone wears earplugs and he would just say pull the filter off your Marlboro and stick it in your opposite ear and that's actually at 56 made it really hard for me to hear microphone questions. So you asked, and I'll just answer this and stop, you asked about Marjorie Taylor Greene's bill to ban the mutilation of children, which for some reason seems to have a lot of trouble getting through the House of Representatives, which is controlled by Republicans. And if there's ever a clearer example of whose side they're on, I can't think of it. Because at least on some of the foreign policy stuff, they can tell you no no we have to be at war with russia because putin's bad he's just bad he's bad okay got it we have kill all the kids in gaza because otherwise the gazans will come here and kill us okay what's the potential excuse for allowing the sexual mutilation of children at that point I'm like you know I don't want to question people's motives but I'm starting starting to wonder. And I do think it just gets back to you have to demand more from your members of Congress, from your leaders more broadly. You're not allowed to sell us out again because if you keep doing that, people get radical and hateful. And then they get desperate because they realize their vote doesn't matter. And that's when things start to go sideways in a way that nobody wants. So yeah, if you can't even ban the the castration of children, I hope there is a list, and I've been traveling today, but

1:37:15 Thomas: You're marvel wow Jesus Christ

1:38:44 Clip: I hope on the internet there's a list of everyone who voted against that effort, and I hope that they are punished for it. I mean, they will be ultimately, but I hope they're punished in this life. Anyway, thank you very much.

1:38:56 Thomas: There you go and that's it well

1:39:00 Lydia: I had to look up that guy so

1:39:02 Thomas: What do you think oh you can look him up oh I didn't realize he gave his actual full name I missed it oh okay yeah interview me yeah I'm sure the

1:39:02 Lydia: Harrison Tinsley yeah oh yeah he gave his full name mm -hmm well cuz he was like an interview me on your show so this This idea that his, yeah, it's so unrealistic. I don't have time to dig into all of these things, but just here's the primary thing.

1:39:14 Thomas: First claim is he didn't meet the kid until 15 months because he was conservative like what the fuck yeah I might debunk false I mean unless the the girl was like I hate you you're disgusting I don't want you but I mean that could be true yeah no because you're

1:39:32 Lydia: And also you're conservative. Yeah. So this is just from Reddit, people kind of commenting on this from a year ago. It looks like the custody battle started after the mother was arrested for felony child endangerment. So I think there was a lot more going on here than gender identity.

1:39:45 Thomas: Conservative uh yeah well unless the child endangerment was trying to trans the kid

1:39:51 Lydia: Not in California. That's not going to happen in California, and it says add to that cps recommended mom get drug and alcohol testing so some folks are thinking that she probably got a dui while the kid was in the car

1:40:02 Thomas: And then tried to trans the kid yeah

1:40:04 Lydia: Yeah and that's how she lost custody and he got full so not because she was making him wear girl diapers which whatever girl diapers what is a girl

1:40:13 Thomas: Girl diapers trying to trans a baby what the fuck are you talking about yeah I I I think he he sees a good grift and knows knows uh when to yeah interview me yeah what

1:40:21 Lydia: Diaper yep oh yeah when he's not even shy about it interview me on your show. God, man, no one's going to agree with me on this. I feel like I want to talk to him in person. After hearing this, I think there's like moments where if I could just like keep him in that mode, then maybe there'd be progress. I don't know. That's why I said no one is going to agree on this is my rose colored glasses. You know, let me have a moment. But I don' t know. I Yeah.

1:40:29 Thomas: An asshole um okay overall thoughts about tucker carlson because I found this very enlightening no you're crazy yeah that's not happening but yeah and I'm just not agreeing with you yeah isn't it interesting though like you see what I mean like I was really kind of blown away by this in a lot of different ways and I am like yeah I guess I am glad that he is anti -bombing people in Gaza like that is good that he's doing that and I think it does come from like I actually I don't think that comes from an anti -Semitic place with him like I mean I'm not saying he doesn't have anti -semitism I think he probably does but like I don't I don'T think that's the main motivator there I think that one goes a little bit the other way around where I think HE doesn't want to spending money on that and I think what you said was was right that I don' t actually think he cares that much about the Gazans and all that I don't think he actually cares he doesn' t want to spend money on THAT and then I think from there he's happy to find whatever allies and he doesn'T particularly care if they fucking love Hitler Hitler but I also don't I you know people may disagree with me on this but I also don'T think he's trying to platform people who love Hitler because they love Hitler I actually don't think he'S trying to do that

1:41:58 Thomas: I think he has this hard -headed view that like platforming anyone is his god -given right and everyone should do it and it's great and whatever and like it's just stupid and I think he is on the side of the schism that is anti -israel or at least anti that you know giving them money

1:42:12 Lydia: Yeah. It becomes tunnel vision for that kind of thing.

1:42:13 Thomas: Yeah and I think he's fine I like I was saying the first time I just don't think he cares or knows how harmful it is to platform that fucking guy I don't know he cares about it which is slightly different like it's I would have thought before that he was trying to platform like trying to specifically promote that anti -semitism I is you know it's six of one half dozen I don'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT MATTERS but it's just a again getting into this idiot's mind like just it's JUST WEIRD IT'S It's fascinating. I actually don't think he's trying to, because he resisted platforming that guy for a while too, like for a long time.

1:42:23 Lydia: Mm hum. Mm hum. Yeah, he's just he talks a lot about in this speech anyway. He talks a lot about humanity. And, you know, and well, and that's what I'm saying. Like, if I just like, I don't know, not me, I guess like, but somebody I feel like, like when he's thinking about it on and I said this during the Ben Shapiro piece too, that when it seems like when he's approached by somebody talking about a situation as it relates to a person, as it relates to, you know, a friend of his, someone that he knows, right, that it seems Like he has an easier time of understanding why that stuff matters. But when you have like the, the bird's eye view, and you're talking about about a community and the systems, right? Like that's where Tucker seems to kind of get hung up.

1:42:54 Thomas: Yeah. I wish he would apply that to ever. No, it's not happening. It's not. Yeah, man.

1:43:43 Lydia: And so I almost feel like if you have someone who's dedicated to kind of like keeping the humanity spotlighted throughout all those conversations, one -on -one with Tucker, I don't think you're going to get that way if it's like televised or anything like that. But I do feel like there could be something, maybe. But yeah, I don' t know.

1:44:01 Thomas: I just, yeah, I just don't know. It was, it was, it's like, okay, crazy question, crazy realization. And then I guess a question I actually will say I'm not agreeing with you really but I will say that I feel like if if you had to choose who are you going to move more or who do you think you could maybe have some kind of fruitful productive conversation with Tucker Carlson or Ben Shapiro I actually think I might say Tucker Carlton just get like I think neither is going to do anything don't get me wrong but I I feel like Tucker at least is saying what he believes all the time, pretty much.

1:44:13 Lydia: You're an idiot.

1:44:39 Thomas: I think he's just this fucking asshole. And I think Ben Shapiro, I know I said before, I do take him at his word with Israel. I think does believe what he says with Israel, but I also think he just lies a lot with his arguments. I think Tucker maybe doesn't know that he's doing that, even though he is like, I think he believes what he's saying. I guess it all comes down to after watching this, I actually kind of think Tucker Carlson believes what He is saying more than Ben Shapiro believes what he is saying.

1:45:10 Lydia: Think I would have to answer that based off of who I am as a person and no who I am as person and I think that like I think I would have more success with tucker because I think it would be talking about humanness and sort of like ideals and values and stuff like that whereas whereas though with ben shapiro I think ben shapir will be more focused on like well the numbers say this even if the numbers don't say that and I think it would be like I think that would probably be more infuriating for me because I'd be like you're wrong

1:45:14 Thomas: Who do you want to kill? No, I'm just kidding.

1:45:28 Thomas: Lydia did some LSD before this recording. I just, we should be clear on that. She's wearing a flower in her hair right now. Yeah. Yeah.

1:45:45 Lydia: Over and over and again and I don't think the conversation with tucker would be like that not necessarily

1:45:49 Thomas: Here's another interesting thing. I listened to recently, I think it was probably on the daily, but I think It was part of that stupid deal book fucking summit thing. God, God, I fucking hated that. But they had a panel of podcasters, a discussion of pod casters. No, I don't think so.

1:46:03 Lydia: Ahead of golden globes was it for that oh

1:46:09 Thomas: I think it was more about like, here are the kind of new politics influencers type thing, like the new medium ish, you know. And so they had Jon Favreau. They had. OK, so I have to actually go look this up. Yep. It's not. He's going to be the he's going to be like the him and Ben Shapiro will be the only ones. What?

1:46:19 Lydia: Nominated keep listening I'll tell you if they were nominated and maybe the cross section yeah it was ben shapiro john favreau uh The guy from Dateline? Yeah.

1:46:33 Thomas: Do you know this or are you saying that's who's nominated?

1:46:35 Lydia: No, it's the Golden Globes guys. I know who was nominated for the Golden Globe for Best Podcast, but yeah, look it up.

1:46:40 Thomas: It sounded like you're saying you knew that. Okay. Well, hold on a sec. Journalism interrupted seven podcast hosts on the state of the media. Oh, man. Okay, you ready? Charlemagne the God. Yep. Jon Favreau. Amna Nawaz.

1:46:50 Lydia: Mm -hmm. Okay, never mind. He was not nominated. Nope.

1:46:57 Thomas: Oh, co -anchor and co -managing editor of PBS NewsHour. Yeah, she was good.

1:47:00 Lydia: Oh, yeah. They were eligible but did not campaign because it was going to cost thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of hours. Tens and thousands of thousands and yeah, yeah,

1:47:05 Thomas: Oh oh didn't know that david remnick uh editor of new yorker and host of new york radio hour I think I liked him stephanie rule host of the 11th hour with stephani rule I don't know oh on ms now okay so that means she's yeah andrew schultz host of The Brilliant Idiots and

1:47:18 Lydia: Oh, okay. Yeah, all these like news sort of centered ones. Huh, never heard of that.

1:47:22 Thomas: Flagrant that guy wait I fucking know that guy no it doesn't is he the one am I losing my mind is this guy also a comedian yeah he's a a standup comedian. This is that fucking guy.

1:47:26 Lydia: Like personally? Oh, with the mustache. Mustache guy yeah

1:47:39 Thomas: Yeah. He's that mustache guy. I thought it was him. I was like, isn't that name familiar, but it's also kind of a generic name. Oh man, that guy. And Ben Shapiro. So there you go. Point of all this was, well, was the daily, do you count the daily?

1:47:52 Lydia: Right so two nominated for golden globes no no because again I think a lot of the journalists they were eligible but they viewed it as a violation of journalistic ethics to spend 25k or

1:48:05 Thomas: I think that's a great encapsulation of what's going on here because then you just think these shitty people who aren't as good at this job of journalism, well I don't want to praise is the New York times right now, but, but you know, you get the point. Like you think they are more deserving because they're nominated for these awards. And then it turns out it's like, no, they, they were willing to spend the money to pursue it.

1:48:17 Lydia: 75k yeah yeah well and amy poehler won so you know celebrities no no she's not

1:48:27 Thomas: Oh, well, yeah, but she's not trying to do journalism. I don't mind that. But this conversation was so fucking frustrating. I listened to this thing. The reason I bring it up is there's no fucking way in a billion years that Tucker Carlson would ever do anything like that. Whereas Ben Shapiro comes on and he's like plays nice, you know and he yeah they get a lot because I don't think Ben Shapiro really believes all of what he says

1:48:44 Lydia: Oh he gets along with john favreau I've watched them together yeah Yeah. Yeah.

1:48:52 Thomas: And maybe you could maybe if you were trying to bright side it maybe he believes fewer shitty things than tucker carlson that probably is true to some extent but I don't know they're often on the very same side of everything and like except for israel and I think that Ben Shapiro is willing to play nice with a system that he kind of fundamentally is undermining Whereas I think Tucker Carlson is like, no, fuck that. Like I'm not even playing nice with it, which I at least respect as a matter of he believes what he says.

1:49:22 Thomas: Ben Shapiro is constantly in the business of trying to promote Ben Shapiro. Tucker Carlson is in the business of White Native Christian Nationalism. Like he's just like, that's my full -time gig. No, I don't think that's what I'm doing, apparently, or maybe he does and he just doesn't say it, but that's what he's doing. And he really believes those things. And for that reason, like, I kind of feel like you could potentially have a discussion with him that I don't know why I'm still arguing because we're on the same side of this. But like, isn't it? It's just interesting. I didn't I wouldn't have thought that.

1:49:48 Lydia: Yeah also Ben Shapiro tried to make it as a Hollywood industry person or whatever

1:49:53 Thomas: No, really. Doesn't the sister do the musicals or whatever? Do the singing?

1:49:56 Lydia: Oh yeah yeah I mean his cousin was Matilda and all that stuff so I think there's part of him where like you never really know where he's gonna be he'll just act his way through it you know he'll kind

1:50:06 Thomas: I mean, you mostly know where he's going to be. But yeah.

1:50:08 Lydia: Of yeah no I know

1:50:10 Thomas: But yeah, anyway, I thought this was particularly interesting, and I mean who got the better of the exchange between ben shapiro and tucker carlson in this arena you know what do you think yeah got

1:50:24 Lydia: Man that's tough to say I think I have to say tucker because he talked about jesus also and like that's gonna matter a lot to the turning point audience um whereas Ben Shapiro is not talking about jesus

1:50:32 Thomas: To speak last yeah that helps yeah but israel does matter too yeah no I don't know I felt like there was more applause for

1:50:48 Lydia: I agree with that but it was also the beginning of the day so yeah yeah erica kirk did you do surveys following every evening. And can we see them?

1:50:51 Thomas: Ben true true but this he but also tucker was the headliner for the night and yes It's often that's who has more. So I don't know. It's that I really don't know. Yeah. I really, really don'T know. I think that I don'T, I mostly think that it doesn'T matter a whole lot. Cause I, I do think that, I think more of them than maybe us are aligned on the whole, we need to stick together thing. I think they've just been better. They've just been better Republicans. The right has been better at all voting the same way more than us, you know? And I feel like ultimately in the end, pretty much all of them had some sort of message of, Hey, we actually don't need to fight or we don't, we aren't really fighting, you know, like they pretty much all did that.

1:51:36 Lydia: I don't think that the vast majority of Turning Point audience members care that much that Nick Fuentes was on Tucker Carlson. I think they will care about, I think a lot of those people probably consume Candace Owens' content. And so when Ben Shapiro is going after Candace Owens, I feel like they're going to be a little bit more some of them are going to get turned off by that because they watch her stuff.

1:51:46 Thomas: Yeah. I don't really, yeah. I don't think so.

1:51:58 Thomas: Yeah, but some of also, I think there was some level of, if they're at a turning point event, they like turning point and she's talking major shit on turning point. So there's going to, I think both those groups are there. Well, was, yeah, no, I, no. I, I hear you. I'm just just saying that. And I think there's kind of two factions

1:52:05 Lydia: Yeah yeah but she's also like was close with charlie kirk too I it's just yeah yeah yeah

1:52:16 Thomas: There. There's going to be people who are like, I can't believe it that shit, how much shit she's talking about them. And there's also going to be the people who, Hey, they're just fans of Nazis. They just, they just love all the white nationalism. So they, you know, I, I collect all the cards, you Know, the rookie cards of all the white nationalists. There'S going to Be a lot of that. Yeah. But in the end, I wish it was more of a fight than it was. I mean, it was pretty direct in places, but I here's another thing. I also that Tucker was making that, or no, no, it was Michael Knowles actually. Was he the one saying like, don't believe the people who seem to not care if we win, like we need to just win. I also think that was a little bit about Ben Shapiro because I'm not sure, I'm not sure about that, but I also get the sense that like, I think Ben Shapiro personally is happier in a world where, you know, Trump loses or Democrat wins than Tucker is. I think Tucker is miserable when Democrats are in power, I think Ben Shapiro, I think he gets to like do all his arguments. Yeah, I guess the content. And I really just think that like Tucker just fucking is that guy. He just hates it.

1:53:10 Lydia: Right yeah he gets the content no matter what yeah yeah yeah

1:53:20 Thomas: Anyway, thanks so much for anyone who listened and we are going to now reward you with 10 minutes of the stupidest conversation that anyone has ever had. Yeah, it was actually, I liked it, but that's okay. It's more gavel level banter, but we'll make an exception this once.

1:53:26 Lydia: It was the best we're gonna launch a new podcast over it so yeah a

1:53:44 Thomas: Yeah start the show that nicely

1:53:46 Lydia: Little goofy yeah and we're back how everyone's feeling

1:53:54 Thomas: On like the morning like waking up feel nice I feel like that's a waking up classical music piece right no that's not right what is that I love how there's like a piece of classical

1:54:08 Lydia: I didn't know if it was like another star wars thing you were setting up I don't know

1:54:08 Thomas: Music for everything and no one or like no normie knows what it is music theory yeah people that listen to classical or whatever but like there's the like if you want to signal in a movie that things are fancy there's like what's the one no that's not fancy that's freaking verdi or whatever ever. Verdi. I don't know. Yeah. This is the solid start to the show. This is how I drew it up. Yeah, what's the one? That's true. Now, that one is something. What is that? Yeah, I know the four seasons. Oh. Is that that one? Now, I don' t know which which season that is. It probably is, actually. Okay, here's what I'm going to do. Is that the same one that goes...

1:54:13 Lydia: Now only music theory people know what it is yeah oh I was gonna say uh the seasons one the one what is that called that's not fancy yeah Verdi? Are we recording right now I thought we were still having our just like random talking yeah the four seasons I don't sounds correct maybe I'm just gonna yes and you that feels very spring

1:55:07 Thomas: I don't know if that's right, but now I want to see.

1:55:09 Lydia: Oh I donno I'm not a classical music aficionado okay

1:55:18 Thomas: Oh, I typed it maybe wrong because that can't be right. Nice inside joke. Okay. That's what what that's what I thought but how

1:55:21 Lydia: It's right side broadcasting version of Yeah. V -E -R -D -I. Verdi.

1:55:33 Thomas: Does that not be the top thing oh is he one of those artists that did a strike on spotify he got up from the grave and was like I'm I don't like the joe rogan contract

1:55:47 Lydia: No, I typed it in Google. It's the guy. He pops up. So Spotify is wrong.

1:55:50 Thomas: No I know it's the guy but it's not it's where's the seasons okay the four seasons total landscaping oh it's vivaldi what am I what are we thinking well now we can't use this Vivaldi who what's Verdi no no no it is Vivaldi for sure I was just wrong what's the Verdi one or whatever there is oh no okay so there's not now it's Vivaldi

1:55:59 Lydia: Yeah. The Four Seasons. Oh, it's Vivaldi. Well, wait a second. No. No no no. Okay. Okay oh no there is a connection. According to AI, this is Vivaldi's famous Four Seasons concertos with Verdi's music from I Vespri Siciliani to create a Vivaldi and Verdi, the Four Seasons theme. So albums combine them together because they both have written songs regarding, I don't know. I'm going to search this, Vivaldi and Verdi, the four seasons.

1:56:27 Thomas: Oh shit what oh did somebody wait okay is this actually yeah total

1:56:44 Lydia: Just call me Rudy Giuliani okay

1:56:47 Thomas: Landscaping okay I'm on Wikipedia that's a safe source yeah

1:56:51 Lydia: Vivaldi was a hundred years before Verdi so they were not uh colleagues

1:56:55 Thomas: Yeah. Okay. So I don't think it's that. No, it was a V. It was a V and I don't have a brain anymore. Okay, so the top here's where we got to go to Vivaldi's top hit. Okay? Well, obviously. Yeah. Okay. The top one is this one. Wait, is this part of the no,

1:57:02 Lydia: Yes because it's 2026 all right so Spotify was right and Google was wrong yes no

1:57:17 Thomas: No, that's not as great as hits. I mean, either that one.

1:57:18 Lydia: I don't know that this ah yeah

1:57:23 Thomas: Well, this is one of them. Yeah. Yeah. Or is this, wait, that's the same one. Okay. That's it. Hold on. I want

1:57:27 Lydia: I don' know skip ahead that's the

1:57:31 Thomas: To actually go to the, that might be summer. Let's see. Okay, here we go. Here, let's go to the album. The album's better anyway. Yeah, there we go! That's the first one! It's fucking spring! The very first one! Yeah, of course. You're right. Now that is, that is an acceptable other one of, Masterpiece theater yeah it's a bop yeah I did have the right song though right wasn't that what I did okay yeah let's see what the second most popular season so he's got three for each season

1:57:37 Lydia: One on there it is there it is oh and it that song honestly is very fancy to me because that's like Grey Poupon that's like Masterpiece Theater the fancy things in life yes yes yes I think so we'll have to go back and check the tape okay

1:58:12 Thomas: Because they had to do the different yeah they do allegro uh yeah yeah other they had to do three cheeses per season three cheeses slash noodle shapes per season okay the second most popular is winter oh is this

1:58:15 Lydia: Spring is popular. Yes. Adagio. Presto. Allegro. Adagio. Yeah, no, it's got to be noodle shapes. If we're talking Italy.

1:58:35 Thomas: Going to be a bummer let's see do we know this one oh oh Whoa, I don't know this either uh oh man this is getting dark he's about to kill himself—has anyone checked on

1:58:56 Lydia: It feels very wintry. This is definitely like a Scrooge vibe.

1:59:01 Thomas: This vivaldi guy Oh, hold on. It's turning. No. Oh, that was just a fake out. Dude, is this going to have like a chorus that we know? Oh, this fucking one. That was the loudest reaction you've ever had to anything. I don't, I only recognize that literal one part and not anything else. Oh, yeah, it does seem familiar. This seems like, now I'm getting a Sherlock vibe or something. Oh, here we go. Oh, of course. Duh. This fucking rules.

1:59:06 Lydia: Ooh. No. No. you know? It's staying in that little minor oh yes I know this if you could see me vibing right now in my room yes yes yes yeah yeah yeah oh it's so good god it's so

2:00:05 Thomas: Okay. This is one of the ones. It turns out all the classical references are just Vivaldi. And the funny thing is that I'm pretty sure Vivaldi is like sneered upon. But, you know, it's like, that's the total sellout, like basic, basic B word classical.

2:00:14 Lydia: Good oh is he but god that's good that was man you know pumpkin spice latte Vivaldi infinity scarves whatever

2:00:22 Thomas: Yeah. This is a fun. Speaking of, let's try Autumn. Yeah. You know, what's funny is Autumn. Autumn is like the fucking black sheep of the Vivaldi Four Seasons. No, but it's dog shit. Nobody even listens to it. Yeah.

2:00:31 Lydia: Interesting it's like deep down like no one wants to listen to it interesting play it

2:00:36 Thomas: Do we even know it? Oh, come on. What?

2:00:43 Thomas: How is that not the most popular one? What the hell? Wait, is that the one I did? They sound so similar.

2:00:43 Lydia: Oh, that's great, that's right well man winter is winter's a freaking vibe though no you did spring it's different it's different of course well it's supposed to be an entire set it's a concerti I doubt

2:00:59 Thomas: Oh, yeah. It is kind of similar. Yeah. Did he ever play any other instruments like a guitar?

2:01:12 Thomas: This is, oh, this has gone too long to even be post -show banter at this point. Anyway, but I think what's funny is the, so the spring is the kind of the fancy one sometimes. And then there was the first fancy one that I did that I think wasn't Vivaldi maybe, or I forgot. Got but winter is also no it's not fancy winter is in the movies it's like a dramatic like someone you know it's more of a this part the toyota you're right I wasn't counting on the toyotathon usage that's a good point you make you make a strong argument but I do feel like this is like in the movie where it's the person I picture there's like someone's like driving to commit of murder or something. I don't know. It's just something like that, you know? Yeah, it's a dramatic, someone

2:01:17 Lydia: It well we're gonna give it to the people but also winter is so fancy except when it gets to the toyota -thon toyota thon it totally is a toyota than like like like let it move into the gift buying vibe yes yeah yeah yeah things are not good

2:02:12 Thomas: Just got bad news, but you can't really hear it. It is just this music is super loud or something I'm picturing. Like someone drops like an old telephone, you know what I mean? Like something. Yeah. So I don' know why, just that's the feel. Could be, could be. Yeah, anyway. Hello.

2:02:20 Lydia: Oh yeah okay I could see that too yes yes yes and then like slow motion like a glasses Glasses dropped and then the wine we see, like, come up from it in slow motion and the way that movement works per Isaac Newton.

2:03:03 Thomas: We don't live in vacuums that we would die if we We were in a vacuum.

2:03:07 Lydia: All my nerds appreciated that one, I bet.

2:03:09 Thomas: Yeah, they appreciate the pronunciation, although everyone should know that's just because the movie exists and not because you were like the Tolkien nerd who's at the compendium. Oh, it is? Okay. But ultimately, that's because the movie consists. I just think it's funny that they're like Smaug in the movie. Anyway, let

2:03:18 Lydia: No, it's because of you. Yeah. I think you said it to me. And so, yes. Yeah. Smaug.

2:03:30 Thomas: Them cook. I love cancel culture. Fuck the Democrats. They shouldn't be allowed to live.

2:03:37 Lydia: Gavel up.

2:03:39 Thomas: Wokey's out. Hey, kids, we hate all the non -whites.

2:03:44 Lydia: Oh, wah.