This Is The Dark Place. Why Aren't We Acting Like It?

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:01 Thomas: Have been trying to record for three days now, ever since the killing of Alex Pretti, and I just don't know what to say, because I just feel insane. I've decided to try to record some video because I want to go over some of the video and some other visual things, but also I just want to, I guess, communicate on a more intimate human level. Know it's an overused comparison, but it's the only thing that even comes close or makes sense and resonates. Like, we are in the Nazi times right now. I know there's been a lot of talk about that ever since Trump won, you know, and I'm happy to label a lot of these people Nazis, and they are Nazis, and there have been plenty of Nazis around. Round but this fascist takeover and this invasion into a U.S. city by a federal force that is accountable to no one except I guess the president if that's I don't I don't see that as meaningful because they're one in the same so it's like accountable to itself I guess this is a new level it's not that everything that's happening is is exactly stuff that's never happened before in the country. There are examples of all kinds of injustices throughout our history that you can look at that bear a lot of resemblance, mostly around the black community, mostly the awful things perpetrated on the black committee and other minority communities in our country. But this all together and the addition of ICE, which is only 22 years old or so, so that's all the history we have there of that this is new and it's HAVING SUCH A HARD TIME BECAUSE I'M LOOKING AROUND AND I JUST DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE REACTING HOW THEY SHOULD BE REACTing TO THIS I MEAN EVEN IN Trump won. Again, horrible things happen. There are Nazis. Absolutely. There are fascists. But this is the full thing. This is the whole fascist by have set up machinery and they have seized all the levers of power in ways that mean there is no limit to what they can do right now.

0:02:30 Thomas: I've been saying this for a long time because it's felt to what the MAGA, the right, what Republicans will justify.

0:02:40 Thomas: Certainly after January 6th, initially it felt like that was going to change some things because Republicans, even Republican leaders, were talking kind of appropriately about it. But within a few weeks, it became clear that they were going to erase that. And now we're to the point where they're having hearings with Jack Smith and Republicans who were saved, who were protected by Capitol Police, who are in the room with them for these hearings, for the Jack Smith hearings. They're willing to bash them and lie in front of them about what happened. Can you just, can you imagine, can your eyes be opened? Can you imagine that level of dishonesty and cowardice and just evil to be in the presence of of some of the Capitol Police officers who saved your life that day, and to have the gall to just lie about them to their faces.

0:03:43 Thomas: If you could do that, you can do anything. If you can that, and Republicans, Jim Jordan, all those assholes, they've shown they can. If you can you can anything. What can't you do?

0:03:59 Thomas: If you can could do that you could murder a mother in her car um shooting her to death from the side when you were in no danger and justify it you could murderer a nurse who was only trying to help some women who was being who were being bullied and shoved and assaulted by an ice officer um you could justify shooting him in the back 10 times when he was not a danger if you can justify that what can't you justify? We're in it right now. We're, we're in the Nazi times. And I just got to say, you know, as somebody who, my job is making podcasts and I, I need to keep doing my job to be able to live. Uh, but I don't, I ,I've have a hard time even doing it because as much as people talk about the Nazi terms, the bad times that whatever, after the killing of Alex and just to some degree, Renee as well, I felt this, but with Alex, it really just, I think it's something just broke in my brain. And now I'm there, like actually there. I actually feel like we are in the Nazi times. And when you actually feel that, and I'm going to make the case, maybe that sounds insane to some people. I'm gonna make the guess. I want to show you some things that, that maybe Maybe we'll convince you we are we are in a situation that can become as bad as they want it to become. It's not as bad is the Holocaust right now. Fortunately, I don't think enough of MAGA and or Donald Trump wants to actually do a holocaust. So I don't think there will be – there's not going to be that level of death. There's not gonna be a – I don't think.

0:05:49 Thomas: But what they've set up can justify – I DON'T know how to quantify it. It can justify a lot. It can testify a lot of killing and collecting of migrants and putting them into what are concentration camps essentially.

0:06:07 Thomas: They are already doing that. They're doing that, we just don't – There's... there's too much to talk about. There's too much negative shit. There is too much shit in the zone to even properly understand that they are running concentration camps. They're not as large as the German concentration camps they don't have as much capacity but they've just been given $80 billion that's a lot. You could build a lot with that but the point is I feel like I'm in it now. I feel like I feel like we're in those times and when when you actually embody that when you actually feel like you are in a time like that there's a whole lot that just doesn't make sense I I can't post a joke about it I I cant I don't feel like posting a meme about it I don t feel like a quote from somebody about fascists or like I don I don I don I don't understand this behavior that we're seeing like even people on my side I don't understand it, and I'm having trouble doing anything except sitting here looking like a crazy person like this and just my brain being frozen. I've been doing it for three days. I've been trying to still be a parent and get work done because you have to, but I keep going through the same pattern in my brain of they've created the circumstances to be able to do whatever the fuck they want, and they're doing it. And it's it's but you know what trump said where the only limits he needs is his own morality that's that's what the limit is he was he was not wrong he's right about that the only limit on him is his own morality and for now that's we're that's we're not getting um like a holocaust that's good it's

0:08:04 Thomas: Possible that he'll decide to stop deploying ice into cities but I don't know. I don't know about that. I think that while he might, he might want to stop doing that for political purposes, but for political reasons, because his approval rating is so is sinking because of it. I do not know that he can stop the machinery of ice, or I do know that it will stop when you have given it $80 billion, when you set up people like Greg Bovino and a bunch of Nazi murderers who get to do whatever they want to people. Evil people like doing evil things to people. And when they, when there's going to be no consequences and no accountability, do they just stop? I don't know. Do they just stop doing that if Trump decides to pull them out or are they, we're not going to hear from them really? It's just going tobe fine? I don't think so.

0:08:56 Thomas: And that's, that's the best case. I don't know why I'm talking in those optimistic terms. The worst case is he decides to double and triple down and keep doing this in city after city. And tha, that's going to get really, really, really ugly it already is really ugly and things can always get worse all maybe I need to start talking about some of the I guess reasons why I'm in this psychosis right now and I I feel like I'm reacting appropriately and a lot of the world isn't a lot the country isn't that's what I that's if you want my honest truth I think that's a lot a lot people are and I'm out here in California. I'm safe. My family's safe for now. You know, like I, this is, I can only imagine what it's like if you're in Minneapolis right now or anywhere in the affected areas. I can only imagine. It's, it's, It's horrible. It is absolutely horrible. And I don't, I don't think, like people are just going about their lives. I don't understand it. Right. So I'm, I'm sure you all know this, but just in case, I'm sure you've all seen this. There are plenty of videos that show that this is a murder here's one that was slowed down I think pretty well probably shows it best obviously content warning he's

0:10:19 Thomas: Shot in the back pulls out murdered in the bank he has no threat right there he's completely murdered in back and then shot 10 times total he's lying on the ground shot I've watched this video 30 times I didn't used to do things like this but I the fascists are gonna lie about it I can't I can help it now I already know this by now that man right there pull uh you can't see my cursor the man with the gray jacket he took his gun he took alex's gun he's no longer armed the other guy shoots him in the back maybe he's maybe the first shot was an accident it's actually possible it was an accent after that I think they decide oh well in for a penny in for pound but I want to go back because there's uh another video that I Think shows a lot more of the reason why this was so unnecessary and pointless and a a murder. What's happening here. Here's what happened. There are two women, one with an orange backpack, and they are going to confront an ICE officer in that second car, in the first car to the left there, that darker vehicle. And they're going to do something that is all right as Americans, which is they're, I think they're yelling at this ICE officer and they're probably telling him what a fucking asshole, racist piece of shit pig he is. I hope anyway.

0:11:39 Thomas: They're not close-ish. Well, let's just go forward a little bit.

0:11:46 Thomas: So they're walking over to that vehicle right there and they want to insult this Nazi pig. So, they're shouting insults.

0:11:57 Thomas: They're allowed to do that. I get that, you know, there's some amount of validity to the fascist stormtroopers do have have the legal right to have some space or something. I get that. So I don't know the exact rules around that, but they are pretty close to him and they're in the street. So I could see him wanting them to get out of the street and even forcing them out of the street, at least in legal ways, in nonviolent ways.

0:12:33 Thomas: I could also see him doing nothing. Thing. You don't have to do that. If this was about, if this was not a fascist endeavor, which I think it just definitionally has to be, but let's assume for the sake of argument that it was an ICE officer who just wants to arrest the bad guy they've claimed they were trying to arrest, he could just ignore them. He could ignore them, but, let's say, he wants to get them out of the street.

0:13:01 Thomas: I get it. I guess ICE has the right to do this, and get people away from them. I what happens so they're insulting him it almost looks like he does start to walk away I don't know what happens here we lose sight for just a sec there's alex trying to get another car to go around he's holding his phone and now when we come back to them the ice officer has shoved them across the street because that's the next right where we got there I where did the other backpack woman go Actually, I don't know. I'm not sure if there's other video that will show that. But so we've got if we go back there, we've Got orange backpack woman and the more brown. I think her jacket is more brown looking from what I can see. And then when we next get side of them right here, I think that's the so that's the brown jacket woman right there. And I believe the backpack woman has been shoved possibly in in down or at least over to that officer's right to our left and that's when alex and I and I believe this is his voice I wasn't sure at first but I'm pretty sure his voice says don't shove them into the traffic so he's telling a nazi piece of shit ice officer who is shoving women into oncoming traffic to not do that which is something that I would hope any of us would do I let's see where we can hear that see

0:14:41 Thomas: His voice is so authoritative I actually just assumed that was an ice officer but and I at first assumed that I like maybe some other ice officer might have been saying don't show that first ice officer in traffic but based on on the context, I think that's actually Alex's voice. And he's very authoritatively and loudly and aggressively saying, do not push them into the traffic. So he's doing what he can to avoid a piece of shit, ice Nazi, badly hurting women, which I think is a good thing to do now.

0:15:17 Thomas: So here we are. Okay. Now, when we come back up, is that, okay. So there's the girl, the backpack. So there's the girl with the backpack. Alex has the girl with the brown jacket, the woman in the brown jacket.

0:15:38 Thomas: And she's seen, he's, I don't know if she's been pepper sprayed at this point yet. It's possible that we just didn't kind of see that because he's already, seems like trying to attend to her in some way there. And then the woman with the backpack is coming back around because she was shoved that way. We don't know if she was shoved, or at least from this video, I can't tell if she was shoved to the ground or anything, but she was shoved violently by rabid pig, you don't have to do that. You don't have to. There's a segment of our society that has decided and accepted that police officers, ICE, whoever, can just throw women to the pavement.

0:16:20 Thomas: I'm sorry to get somewhat patriarchal, but I guess another word for it would be people smaller than them, people more vulnerable than them. Because it's elderly, it's everybody. Everybody. They will do that to everybody. But particularly, it's I can understand as a man, as Alex, I believe, identified as feeling a particular burning anger from seeing a Nazi piece of shit pig like this throw women onto the hard, icy pavement. I can see being activated in a certain way by that. And yet still, he did everything right here. He used his voice.

0:17:04 Thomas: We know he had a gun. If he was some crazed lunatic, he could have drawn it at this point when there was one officer and when he had already shoved two women. Woman, why didn't, if he was some deranged ice killer, why didn't he just take it out then and shoot that guy? Nope, he's not that. He's attending to this woman here. And then the backpack woman comes over. And now, now what are we doing? Now what was the goal?

0:17:34 Thomas: Okay, Nazi pig officer, I'm going to go ahead and spot you like just by the letter of the law, let's say, that you can get them away from you in the street. Okay, I I don't think you need to shove them like that. Obviously, this is all awful. But I'm trying to think like in adjusted societal terms what we tend to permit police to do for some reason. Probably because half of people really like police committing violence on the right kind of people.

0:18:05 Thomas: I get that you're allowed to get them away from you. Now, at this point, what is the need for that ICE officer to keep engaging? Look at the image.

0:18:13 Thomas: What is the Need? Need you have alex and this woman are turned away from you the other woman in the backpack is coming around I don't even think he knows she's there yet because he seems to be looking right at the camera here what what is he still fucking doing what is He's already he's already gotten to abuse some people which I think is what they're here for mainly he's they're out of the street they're away from his car. They've probably, they would, they've probably been persuaded to stop getting in his face. I bet because he's used violence on them. Turn around and go back and do whatever the fuck stupid shit you came here to do. Why? He's turned around. He's turn around. She's turned around. What is he still doing there? What is she still doing? Let's see what happens here. Okay now he just sees her and shoves her what what was that for what does that do what was that for and I don't even know why I'm saying this because what's the fucking point who's listening who is listening who isn't already convinced I guess maybe there are some people I hope I I really really really deeply hope that somebody who doesn't agree with me might see this and change their mind but is that happening that's why I've had such a hard time even knowing what to to do. I want to say something. There's things I need to say. There are things I want to get out. But why? What are we doing?

0:19:49 Thomas: There are people who are either ignorant, who have decided they don't want to know, or are actively fine with this.

0:20:01 Thomas: But just in case, I just want to put this down for the record. Look at how unnecessary this entire fucking situation was. Again, bending over backwards for the fascists for some reason. But no, because that's how a jury would do it. That's how our society does it. Bending over backwards.

0:20:21 Thomas: I could see the ICE officer arguing he was justified in getting them out of the street away from him. That's done. That right here, right here.

0:20:32 Thomas: That's been done. That's right. Right here. We're already done. They're leaving. He's taking her. Alex is taking her off the street. This other backpack lady is walking to get off the streets. And she's probably giving him an earful about assaulting her. Okay that's words we're allowed to say words actually we're allowed the first amendment that's something we have in this country and he just shoves a woman into the sidewalk look at this what are you doing Alex has what seems to me to be a thought to intervene in some way and by some miracle of restraint I don't think he like I could see right here if I were in this situation I think I'd be dead too even if I didn't have a gun because I don't know how you watch an agent push a woman to the ground and not do something and he it looks like he he goes and and I think very quickly because Alex seems to be a pretty remarkable person I think he he thinks better of it and he says okay okay gets the pepper sprayed okay okay they're off the sidewalk they're they're off the street they're on the sidewalk now now what are we still doing now this is just fascism this is just abuse this is just ultimately murder we don't need to be here nope none of them need to be here they didn't need to get out the pepper spray but okay fine you have now shoved a woman to the sidewalk and Alex has come and and sort of maybe touched the agent because he just witnessed this fascist Nazi piece of shit shove a woman to the sidewalk and he says okay okay and the agent starts pepper spraying that none of that need to happen but okay at this point at this You could say, all right, now you've pepper sprayed them. Now can you be done? Now are you done? What, what more do you need to happen? What more do we need to do here? What needs to happen They're now crouched on the, on the curb. They are, they are disabled, you know, in the police sense. They're, they're not a threat.

0:22:39 Thomas: And he is, so now Alex is holding on to this woman, this backpack woman. And it seems to me, I don't, I Don't fully know, but it seems like he just has has a reaction to hang on to her because he's being grabbed um maybe just for balance or something it doesn't seem like it IT'S necessarily like protecting her anymore I don'T think or or maybe again we have perfect you know like hindsight or or or vision right now like from from all these angles in the moment who knows what was going through alex's head uh all I do know is it had nothing to do with any sort of threat to the the ice agents um but it seems like maybe as they were yanking him maybe he held on to the woman out of reaction or or something so because they're now they start yanking him off and I think I think it's possible that that ice agent is like hey get away I need to pepper spray this woman in the face some more like I actually think that's kind of what happened because you know never get uh in between an ice agent and the woman he wants to abuse you know he shoved her down and he gets in the way a little bit he sprayed him okay he sprayed her and he just kind of covers on top of her and now she's I think maybe he is trying to protect her from the pepper spray maybe that's why he latches on to her and so they grab him and now now what what none of this needed to happen none of this needed happen they

0:24:13 Thomas: Were off the the street. There, there are no threat. They're off the street, you had already gotten to have your fucking fun, you little piece of shit. You already got to shove them, you already got the pepper spray. But it's not enough. This is fascism. It's not enough. 100% obedience is the only acceptable behavior to them. 100%. That's fascism and then we know what happens from here. He's not, he's not a threat. He is on his hands and knees. His, his, his, he's shot in the back for what? For nothing.

0:25:08 Thomas: It's so hard. I had a, I had a thought where I was like, man, it makes it even all the harder that they keep killing like the best people, you know, like just, just in the grief of my own mind, I had that thought of like, why can't they just, I don't know, kill someone who's less good or something, you know, sort of like the bargaining phase of grief or or something, like, if only, and then I realized, oh yeah, they're killing the best people, because that's who's, that's, who's out there, that, that sues out there.

0:25:57 Thomas: That sues up there. Alex is, was a nurse, seemed like an incredible person.

0:26:11 Thomas: Listen to how gentle, and soft-spoken, and respectfully is for a veteran who died in his care.

0:26:23 Clip: Parents Lee Randolph, March 30th, 1947, December 10th, 2024. Today we remember that freedom is not free. We have to work at it, nurture it, protect it, and even sacrifice for it. May we never forget and always remember our brothers and sisters who have served so that we may enjoy the gift of freedom. So in this moment, we remember and give thanks for their dedication and selfless service to our nation in the cause of our freedom. In this solemn hour, we read them our honor and our gratitude.

0:27:13 Thomas: On one hand, we have a nurse who, whose final act was trying to protect vulnerable people from the worst people in the world. A gentle -seeming man who I can't, just seems like he was an incredible person. Him know sometimes I have that first thought of like well this this poor guy as in alex and then my next thought is like no it's more it's more us alex is gone he hope you didn't have too horrible and painful a death. I hope it was quick. It's us who suffer now. His suffering is over, and it's the people who raised him and the people who loved him and the people who knew him and the people give a shit about human life it's his friends and family everybody it's it's that's that's who's suffering now and people people die every day there's heartbreak every day on this planet obviously there has been forever for all of human history there's already enough heartbreak just naturally without having this happen and then having to see see this fascist administration instantly smearing this man and lying to our faces in ways that we as Americans have normalized somehow. We've normalized this, and

0:29:26 Thomas: We can't. And to see things like this, federal agent reportedly said boo-hoo after Minneapolis man was shot dead. Video of a nice agent. I'll describe it in case there's listeners after this fucking guy. This guy walks in. Maybe he wanted to get in on the ass beating. Oh, now there's gunshots. So he backs away. And look at him right there. He claps. Can I zoom in on this? I don't know if I can zoom in, but I think you can see. He claps, he runs in, probably a bloodthirsty um piece of shit wants to run in and um assist with the violence uh gets there a little too late unfortunately for him sees the the gentle nurse be shot 10 times in the back and then he claps he claps this is this is real this is not there is a lot of misinformation about this um on the left I mean the right I don't even count that it's just lies but on the left there is a lot of misinformation um uh this isn't this is real this this so if you're just a listener he claps after like eight of the ten shots this soulless evil monster is who we've given unlimited

0:31:00 Thomas: Power to essentially I just I don't there's no I don't have it there's just despair. Immediately we had some affidavits filed really, really quickly. And this, I mean, this isn't that important. This particular point I'm about to make is not that important, but about the misinformation on the left. Right away, we had a whole bunch of people saying they saw the woman in pink on the first angle we had. It was kind of behind it. And they said, oh, they need, we need that video. And then a bunch of People kept saying, well, they've got her they've they've abducted her ice has her and they're good they're destroying video people just make stuff up and I you know I I how big a problem that is in the scheme of things of this I don't I don't know but um people just say stuff I guess uh that wasn't true um because here she uh entered this affidavit she released her video um I want to read this to you I'm a resident of the whittier neighborhood of Minneapolis, Minnesota. I'm over 18 years of age. I am a children's entertainer who specializes in face painting. On Saturday, January 24th at about 8:50 a.m. I was getting ready to go to work when I heard whistles outside. I knew the whistles meant that ICE agents were in the area so I decided to check it out on my way to work. I've been involved in observing in my community because it is so important to document what ICE is doing to my neighbors. Connecting to your local community and knowing who your neighbors are is something I profoundly value. I drove to Nicolette Avenue and 26th where I could hear the whistles coming from. I turned south onto Nicolette. There were already several ice agents there and they'd set up a sort of vehicle convoy on Nicolette and 28th. There were also about 15 observers there recording and observing ice.

0:32:58 Thomas: I saw ice agents surrounding cars and punching car windows. I also saw them stopping vehicles further down Nicolet so I backed up because I didn't feel safe continuing on. I noticed a man sort of acting to help traffic move more smoothly. He helped me find a place to park. I got out with my whistle and my camera. I went over to him and said something like, I'm going to film and use my whistle. It seemed like most ICE activity was happening a little further down the street from us near 27th. Someone was being thrown to the ground. I started recording. There was an agent by a car across the street. Two observers were a few feet away from the agent blowing their whistles. One was wearing a backpack. I and the man who was observing and helping direct traffic were were standing in the street. There was a phone in the man's hand recording a video. An agent approached and asked us to back up, so I moved slowly back onto the sidewalk. The man stayed in the street filming as the other observers I mentioned earlier were being forced backward by another ICE agent, threatening them with pepper spray. The men went closer to support them as they got threatened, just with his camera out. I didn't see him reach for or hold a gun. Then the ICE agent shoved one of the other observer to the ground. Then he started pepper pepper spraying all three of them directly in the face and all over. The man with the phone put his hands above his head and the agent sprayed him again and pushed him. Then the man tried to help up the woman the ice agent had shoved to the ground. The ice agents just kept spraying. More agents came over and grabbed the man who was still trying to help the woman get up. All three of the observers looked to have been badly affected by the pepper spray. I could feel the pepper spray in my eyes. The agents pulled the man on the ground I didn't see him touch any of them He wasn't even turned toward them. It didn't look like he was trying to resist. He was just trying to help the woman up. I didn't see him with a gun. They threw him to the ground. Four or five agents had him on the ground, and they just started shooting him. They shot him so many times. I don't know why they shot him. He Was Only Helping. I was five feet from him, and They Just Shot Him. The video I recorded of what happened accurately depicts the events leading up to the agent shooting him and several minutes afterward. The video is attached as Exhibit 1.

0:35:04 Thomas: I have read the a statement from dhs about what happened and it is wrong the man did not approach the agents with a gun he approached them with a camera he was just trying to help women help a woman get up and they took him to the ground I feel afraid only hours have passed since they shot a man right in front of me and I don't feel like I can go home because I heard agents were looking for me hey maybe that's a reason not to spread stuff who knows maybe I don't know if that was accurate but but anyway, I don't know what the agents will do when they find me. I do KNOW that they're NOT telling the truth about what happened. I've heard that other witnesses might have been arrested and taken to the Whipple building. I am disgusted and gutted at how they are treating my neighbors and my state. I keep alternating between crying and feeling determined. It is important to remember the value of documenting injustice. We show up for the people who need us to bear witness because it can't just be one group of people bearing the brunt of their tyranny. This is a struggle to protect our freedom and democracy. Those things are on the line. He lost his life for those values. Another statement. I'm a 29-year-old resident of Redacted in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I've lived in Minneapolis when I moved to the city to begin my medical residency. I'm a licensed pediatrician, and I have been practicing pediatric medicine in the city since I moved here. On January 24th, etc., I was awoken by the sound of cars honking and whistles blowing. Shortly after I awoke, I heard screaming outside my window. I redacted, saw several ICE agents and civilians yelling at each other. One civilian was standing in front of a parked car on the side of the road. I saw him yelling at ICE agents, but I did not see him attack the agents or brandish a weapon of any kind. Suddenly, an ICE agent shoved him to the ground. My view of the altercation was partially obstructed, but after a few seconds, I saw at least four ICE agents point guns at the man. I then saw the agent shoot the man at least six or seven times. Initially, I was stunned. From what I can see from my apartment, there was absolutely no need for any violence, let alone lethal force by multiple officers. I immediately put on my boots and coat, ran outside, and approached the ICE agents who were near the victim. The scene was chaotic. Many civilians were screaming and honking. Over the noise, I informed the ICE Agents that I am a physician, and I ask to assess the victim at first. The ICE agents wouldn't let me through. They repeatedly asked me for my physician's license, which I obviously didn't have, but none of the ICE agents, who were the victim were performing CPR, and I could tell that the victim was in critical condition. I insisted that the agents let me assess him. Normally, I would not have been so persistent, but as a physician, I felt a professional and moral obligation to help this man, especially since none of the agents were helping him. Finally, one agent agreed to let me assess the victim. He patted me down to make sure I didn't have a weapon, in quotes, and then let me approach the victim." As I approached, I saw that the victim was lying on his side and was surrounded by several ICE agents. I was confused as to why the victim wasn't on his own side because that is not standard practice when a victim has been shot. Checking for a pulse and administering CPR as standard practice. Instead of doing either of those things, the ICE agents appeared to be counting his bullet wounds. I asked the ICE agents if the victim had a pulse, and they said they did not know. I then asked the agents to make space so I could assess the victim. The victim had at least three bullet wounds in his back. I Asked the ICE Agents to Turn the Victim from His Side to His Back. From that position, I saw an additional gunshot wound on the victim's upper left chest and another possible gunshot wound on his neck. I checked for a pulse but I did not feel one. I immediately began CPR. Shortly after I started compressions, EMS personnel arrived and took over. I remained at the scene for about five more minutes but protesters began to gather and the situation seemed to be escalating so I left and returned to my apartment. Going to keep going because this is a detail I'd not considered since I have never lived anywhere near anything like this. When I returned to my apartment I was extremely distraught. I was sobbing and shaking uncontrollably. Eventually Eventually, I called my sister who lives in a nearby suburb. I called her for comfort because I did not feel safe in my apartment. I wanted to see if I could stay with her for the day and maybe even a few days. I also sought advice from a friend who works for the city of Minneapolis. He recommended that I shelter in place because the situation outside my apartment was so dangerous. I was going to follow his advice, but then ICE agents deployed tear gas on the crowd that had gathered below, and the tear gas began seeping into my apartment, and

0:39:24 Thomas: I didn't even think about that. That. Imagine if you live near this and you just have a toxic hazard in your living space.

0:39:35 Thomas: At that point, I did not feel like I could stay in my apartment any longer. I packed an overnight bag, took the elevator down to the parking garage, and drove about six blocks to a friend's house. I was still crying and shaking at that point and I was barely able to speak. I drove to my friend's house because it was close and I wanted time to collect myself before driving 30 minutes to my sister's house." I'm devastated by the killing of a Minnesotan by multiple federal immigration immigration agents. From what I could tell, the victim was not actively threatening ICE agents or the public. He was just yelling at the agents because he objected to ICE's presence in our city. A person should not be shot and killed for lawfully expressing their opinions. I'm not sure when I will return to my apartment. I do not feel safe in my city. In less than one month, ICE agents have shot and kill two people for protesting and observing their actions. I worry that I or someone I love will be shot killed for voicing their displeasure and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Think any human being might ask at this moment, how could you possibly justify this?

0:40:30 Thomas: Again, it's awful, obviously, that police killings happen. And sometimes I'm sure they're justified. Sometimes, I'm sure. A lot of times they're not justified. That level of tragedy and killing, I suppose, is easier to cope with when you know that's a quote-unquote bad egg or somebody who's going to be punished or possibly going to be punished. I mean, that's not, again, it's not acceptable or anything, but that's level of awful. It's another thing entirely when there's not going to be any accountability at all. There's going to lie and there's gonna be smearing of a man who really really didn't deserve it I I could go through a lot of it I could talk about but I think I want to I want to focus on Bovino um there's... there's some stuff he said that's really I don't think I've ever felt so much hate and anger for a person the things that I wish happen to Bovino so a here's appropriate briefing I

0:41:31 Clip: Afternoon. Thank you all for being here today. I'm Gregory Bovino and I have the privilege and honor of leading United States Border Patrol and Customs and Border Protection here in Minneapolis.

0:41:42 Thomas: Just want to shout fuck you over all this but but I'll refrain.

0:41:44 Clip: Some of those brave men and women of Border Patrol and Department of Homeland Security law enforcement join me here today to show support for all federal law enforcement who have been under constant attack in Minneapolis for weeks now. This morning was no different. At 9:05 a.m. Central Standard Time, as DHS law enforcement officers were conducting a targeted operation in Minneapolis against an illegal alien Jose Huerta Chuma you can see this illegal alien on the screen to my left and right that is Jose Huertachuma whose criminal history includes domestic assault to intentionally inflict bodily harm, disorderly conduct, and driving without a valid license. During this operation, an individual approached US Border Patrol agents with a 9mm semi -automatic handgun.

0:42:17 Thomas: Piece of ship behind him approached.

0:42:47 Clip: The agents attempted to disarm the individual, but he violently resisted.

0:42:46 Thomas: Nope, that didn't happen. Nope. No, it didn't.

0:42:54 Clip: Fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow officers, a Border Patrol agent fired defensive shots.

0:42:57 Thomas: He was forced to shoot him in the back. Defensive shots in the back. Can you have defensive shots in that?

0:43:02 Clip: Medics on the scene immediately delivered medical aid to the subject, but the subject was pronounced dead at the scene. The suspect also had two loaded magazines.

0:43:06 Thomas: Medics in the scene. Now he switches to suspect, by the the way

0:43:15 Clip: The subject

0:43:15 Thomas: So he said subject and then he switches to suspect what's he a suspect of what the the language I just want to take you through some of the I mean it's not like it's subtle but the the the way this fascism this this guy bovino he needs to be in prison he needs to be worse than prison in my opinion um the ways that he's going to talk about people a murder victim who was shot for no fucking reason he first says subject which okay and then he switches to suspect suspect

0:43:55 Clip: Was pronounce dead at the scene the suspect also, had two loading magazines and no accessible ID. This looks like a situation where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement.

0:44:00 Thomas: Of what no what are you talking about yeah

0:44:14 Clip: Then, about 200 rioters arrived at the scene and began to obstruct and assault law enforcement, Crowd control measures have been deployed for the safety of the public and law enforcement This situation is evolving and more information is forthcoming the officer was highly trained and had been serving as a border patrol agent for eight years. The officer has extensive training as a range safety officer and less lethal officer.

0:44:19 Thomas: Because you did a public execution I want to take a second to make this point because this happened with Renee Good as well while it is true that these ice agents are incompetent pieces of shit who aren't receiving training because they shortened the training length to 47 days to honor their dear God and leader, Donald Trump, the 47th president. That isn't the issue here. Again, it's kind of remarkable. Two for two with these murders are from veterans with, I think the first one was 10 years, I want to say, and this one's eight years experience.

0:45:23 Thomas: So if the training is not the the issue, what is the issue? Could it be that this is how they want to act? Could it be this is that how ICE agents, especially now, want to conduct themselves, even when trained? Could that be? It would almost be better if we could point to an incompetent Nazi who got hired yesterday. That would almost a bit of a relief, but no. It's the highly trained people who are committing the murders and doing the executions. So it's not a matter of training. That's not going to help. Both, two for two. It's incredible.

0:46:05 Clip: As mentioned this is only the latest attack on law enforcement. Across the country the men and women of DHS have been attacked, shot at, doxxed, had their family members threatened and as we have seen more than 100 vehicle rammings over the past year against federal law enforcement we will not allow violence against our law enforcement officers and we need state and local help state and local law enforcement to help us coordinate to get violent criminals off the streets Mayor Frey and Chief O'Hara just a few minutes ago did the opposite of that by omitting the fact that the suspect had a gun and magazines full of ammunition in what looks like a situation again where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement.

0:46:27 Thomas: Quote your Nazi officer. Boo hoo. No.

0:47:07 Clip: I want to reiterate what President Donald Trump, Secretary Kristi Noem, myself, Director Marcos Charles, and so many others have said time and again. If you obstruct a law enforcement officer or assault a law enforcement officer, you are in violation of the law and will be arrested. Our law enforcement officers take an oath to protect the public. We go to work every day to protect our friends, our neighbors, and our fellow citizens. The my name is greg bovino commander at large for cbp assets here in minneapolis I'd like to take a few moments here before we take questions and before I hear from my colleague Mr. Marcos Charles to talk about a subject that I think is very important given

0:47:30 Thomas: Then why didn't you arrest him? No, you don't. That one was bad. This one was even worse.

0:48:05 Thomas: So we're about to listen to uh idiot fascist lecture us in the stupidest terms that I don't have words for how fucking stupid this is and the smugness with which it's delivered but it explains a lot about his fascism and explains a Lot about their mindset choices

0:48:30 Clip: The events over the past couple of days. And that topic is the topic of choices. Choices. Now choosing or making a choice is one of the only true freedoms that any of us really have is to make a choice.

0:48:39 Thomas: What a philosopher like choosing to exercise exercise your

0:48:49 Clip: Whether whether that's the choice to be here today as the media, the choice to go to school, join the military, join law enforcement. Making a choice is a freedom that resides within us.

0:48:49 Thomas: First amendment right or your second amendment right what

0:49:02 Clip: Now, good choices are important in life, as we all know, and many actions that take place are due to our choices. The choice to, say, cross the border illegally, that is a choice that someone makes. To cross the border illegally, that's a choice.

0:49:15 Thomas: Do you think you're explaining is it yeah if they're fleeing for their lives because they face horrendous atrocities in a country that we've ruined possibly how much of a choice is it there is that is that I mean you could say everything's a choice um and in a certain definition I it's weird gregory that we're getting into philosophy here. I don't really think that's what the people need from you. But yeah, to some extent, everything's a choice, but you would, you would think there are choices that are more and less free. If I put a gun to your back and tell you to do something, you then can choose to do it. Is that a free choice? If, if you're fleeing awful conditions in a country because you have really no other options and you have a family and you, and you want to do what you can for them is that a choice is that a free choice I'm

0:50:25 Clip: The choice not to utilize the CBP Home app, that a choice, not standing in line and doing it the right way, that is a choice and there are always actions that result from our choices.

0:50:43 Clip: When you choose to use your five-year-old child as a shield to evade law enforcement, that is choice that someone makes and there are actions and consequences that result from that choice or when you're a politician or a community leader you make a lot of choices there some very important wide-ranging and in-depth choices when as a politician if you choose collusion and corruption as a choice then there are consequences and actions that take place because of that. That's one reason the U.S. Border Patrol and ICE are here in Minneapolis

0:50:51 Thomas: Not even gonna get into that one in in-depth choices no

0:51:29 Clip: By the thousands is because of those choices. When politicians, community leaders, and some journalists engage in that heated rhetoric we keep talking about, when they make the choice to vilify law enforcement, calling law enforcement names like Gestapo or using the term kidnapping. That is a choice that is made. There are actions and consequences that come from those choices.

0:51:29 Thomas: It's not what the fuck is this this is where I have to play that that that game for some reason in my head where I think is he this dumb or is he just doing this because he knows we can't do anything about it in this case I think he might be this dumb I think that's tough to to say but um the the idea that this explains something here I need to I need to explain something to you all choices okay when you make choices there's actions and consequences that happen okay don't choose to kill a man in the street what what what do you think this explains what what what is what do You think what are you who's his audience here what is it what What does he think? And that's the thing is, is the only acceptable response to these people is full, abject obedience. That's it. You're going to sit here and lecture us about the consequences of our own actions like you're our 90 IQ dad. What is this explaining?

0:53:21 Clip: And then when you choose, when someone chooses

0:53:22 Thomas: And also, Border Patrol and ICE, their job is not to reduce fraud among politicians or whatever he's talking about. That has nothing to do with anything. The amount of fascist that this is, this is again, this person has been given free reign and there's not really a limit to how fascist this guy wants to get.

0:53:49 Thomas: And that's why I'm feeling the the way I am um there's... there's a lot more but just just think on that this person has no consequences there there's nothing constraining this man you're

0:54:04 Clip: To listen to a politician, a so-called journalist, a community leader that spouted that type of vilification towards law enforcement or anything else, when you chose to listen that, that is a choice and there are consequences and actions there also. I think we saw that yesterday and those actions and choices can obviously have tragic consequences, bad outcomes, outcomes that law enforcement never wants to see. Law enforcement never want to see a bad consequence due

0:54:17 Thomas: Being that right now you're just doing a whole bunch of words to say it's your fault that's all you're saying you're not what is with this framing

0:54:43 Clip: To a poor choice. Now, these choices have reverberations throughout society. Let's take a look at, go ahead and put that on the screen please yesterday border patrol agents were engaged a targeted law enforcement effort to apprehend this individual here Mr. Jose Huerta Chuma look at his criminal record domestic assault, intentional infliction of bodily harm, disorderly conduct. He's also got some other records there as well. This individual remains at large today. This individual

0:54:57 Thomas: Reverberations been So does the

0:55:28 Clip: Is still roaming the streets today.

0:55:28 Thomas: Murderer who executed Alex in the street,

0:55:30 Clip: This is the individual on that targeted law enforcement efforts that Border Patrol agents were engaged in yesterday when they were disrupted, assaulted, and prevented from conducting that Title VIII mission by individuals intent on making the choice to riot, to create anarchy, and to be a violent mob.

0:55:30 Thomas: Or the murderers. Individuals. What are you talking about, man? So let's pretend they were trying to get this guy. Okay.

0:56:06 Thomas: We saw the video where there's some women shouting at an ICE agent. He can just ignore them. I would think a good ICE agent would be able to be like, oh, well, that's not important because I need to apprehend this horrible guy that we're trying to apprehend. And he had multiple chances to just leave and just go do that even after he got to do a little bit of abuse of citizens you know because they have to do that he had every choice he had every opportunity to make the choice to not fucking do that

0:56:32 Clip: This individual walks the streets today because of those choices made by politicians and those perhaps weaker minded constituents that

0:56:40 Thomas: It's only because so weaker minds perhaps weaker minded constituents what he's gonna get to eventually is everyone makes choices except them what what ice and border patrol does and what Greg Bovino does that's inevitable and that's not me making the criticism that's his actual view that's his actual viewpoint see

0:57:12 Clip: Chose to follow directions of those politicians. Sad state of affairs.

0:57:18 Clip: Now, enforcing the law is not a choice. I choose to be a Border Patrol agent. Mr. Marcos Charles chooses to be an ICE agent, but enforcing the law, that's not a choice, that is a duty. As we all know, those laws were enacted or enacted by Congress, signed by the executive, and upheld and upheld most of the time by the judiciary. Those are the laws of our land. That is our our duty to

0:57:29 Thomas: That actually is okay if every time someone goes one mile an hour above the speed limit do is that do does it have to be in for is it inevitable that that's enforced force? Does a highway patrol have to pull you over every single time you go a mile per hour above the speed limit? No.

0:58:06 Thomas: Do they have to arrest you for every single infraction, jaywalking, littering? Do they have to use maximal force to arrest you? Otherwise, then there's no laws if you don't, know. There's no other situation where we look at things this way. This is this is I get, I get, the more serious the crime is, yeah, the more important it is that police actually enforce that law. I get it. Murder, horrible things, you know, kidnapping, rape, I get It. But being in the country without the right papers is not that. They have to default to this simplistic, feeble -minded logic of like, either you enforce them or don't. If you don't enforce them, there's no laws. It's It's just not true. It's not how anything works.

0:58:53 Clip: Enforce those laws, whether that's a Title 8 immigration law, whether that's chasing a bank robber or a spy or whatever else. That is our duty, whether it's a state and local law enforcement agency, and they make choices also. Do they support federal law enforcement going after Mr.

0:59:02 Thomas: Wait, how are they making choices?

0:59:12 Clip: Jose Huerta Chuma, or do they not?

0:59:12 Thomas: I thought what they do is inevitable. The only people, again, this is why it's the fascism. The only person who is making choices is the fascist. The only other people who aren't making choices in quotes in this framing is him and ICE and Border Patrol. They are the inevitable. They are the consequences. Whatever they do, it's beyond analysis even in Bovino's mind. It's inappropriate to even talk about it, that what they do is supreme to the point where he's saying local law enforcement why does local law reinforcement not get the same treatment here he even says local law they make choices okay so do you so so enforcing the law is not a choice it's a duty okay that doesn't apply to the to the police the actual police they

0:59:58 Clip: That's not a choice. That's a duty. As we all know, those laws were enacted or enacted by congress signed by the executive and is our duty whether it's a state and local law enforcement agency and they make choices also, do they support federal law enforcement going after Mr.

1:00:16 Thomas: Make make choices also.

1:00:17 Clip: Jose Huerta Chuma, or do they not? We all make choices. Our Title VIII immigration mission continues, unabated here in Minneapolis, despite yesterday's tragedy that was preventable by folks making better choices, politicians, journalists, and would -be anarchists and rioters. This individual from Laos was apprehended within the past 24 hours. This operation continues unabated. This is evidence of that. We will continue to make these streets a safer place. It is It is our duty, because we choose to be border patrol agents and ICE agents, to take individuals like that off the streets so we can make Minneapolis and America

1:00:21 Thomas: Why do you say his name like that? Fucking creep. Not ice though. Take

1:01:17 Clip: A safer place.

1:01:17 Thomas: Your fucking selves off the street. That would make it safer. Let's skip to where he's going to take questions and see if there's anything here.

1:01:19 Clip: Thank you. Commander Rubino. Commander Rubin. Commander Rubina.

1:01:33 Thomas: Yeah. So the Trump administration, Trump one released Chuma. There's also a choice. That doesn't matter. What's the point of this?

1:01:44 Clip: 2018, immigration custody, why would that be the case? I don't know the particular case in 2018 that you're talking about, but this individual individual that we uh you want to put that back up there please that individual is now an illegal alien it's my mission to find this illegal alien before he harms another american citizen and does harm that's what I'm after there and

1:01:50 Thomas: What do you think he's going to answer?

1:02:37 Clip: Sure. Many videos out there, many different accounts that you may see that I may see that anybody here may see. That, folks, is why we have something called an investigation to take what you're talking about, to take those videos, to to take witness statements, to take officer statements, all those minute details that will paint a true picture, not a freeze frame concept, and paint a larger picture of what really happened. That is why we investigate so we can get to the truth so there's not speculation. Speculation after 24 hours, you've got a lot of speculation in there. That officer, let's think of what those agents were doing on that scene, making a split -second decision.

1:02:49 Thomas: Which you're not doing, which the FBI is not doing. DHS is investigating itself self for no real reason yeah

1:03:24 Clip: You've had 24 hours to try and armchair quarterback things. That agent had a split second to make a decision. But with all due respect, Commander, Secretary Noem is not waiting for an investigation. Who's next?

1:03:26 Thomas: There's no due respect enough 10

1:03:46 Clip: Again, again, the investigation is going to uncover all those facts, things like how many shots were fired, where were the weapons located. All those facts are going to come out in the the investigation.

1:03:54 Thomas: Shots not on alex pretty I was taken from him you

1:03:58 Clip: I wasn't there wrestling that assaultive subject that was assaulting border patrol agents. I was there wrestling him myself. So I'm not going to speculate. I'm going to wait for that investigation to come. Don't interrupt me. I'm gonna wait till that investigation comes out until I make a decision there.

1:04:09 Thomas: You already did look at this yeah

1:04:24 Clip: I've not concluded anything. I have not given you a conclusion. But what I do know, what I know is this individual individual was on that scene several minutes before that shooting, interfering with a lawful, legal, ethical law enforcement operation to arrest Jose Huerta Chuma. And again, it's back to choices. We just talked about choices. When someone makes the choice to come into an active law enforcement scene, interfere, obstruct, delay or assault law enforcement officers and and and they they bring a weapon to do that that is a that is the choice that that individual made

1:04:28 Thomas: You have oh before he he didn't appear in the instant of the shooting no he didn's yeah what didn't you understand about my lecture about about choices. What aren't you getting, idiot? Oh,

1:05:07 Clip: Being

1:05:07 Thomas: It's a choice that individual made. There you go. Ironclad. So this is where I want to get to my next point, which is what is the fucking point of doing this? What are we doing? This is, again, why I feel so stuck. What is the point of mainstream journalism in this moment?

1:05:30 Thomas: It's fundamentally flawed in a way that makes them unable to deal with this. They're unable to even meaningfully help in any way. They are required to have memento disease. They re required to just not remember or be able to make a determination that what Bovino is doing is lying for fascist reasons.

1:05:56 Thomas: Objectively. That's not my partisan us an opinion. That's objectively true.

1:06:02 Thomas: And if you don't understand that, and if you're not saying that, then you're not providing any insider coverage. You're not, you're not providing me with facts. Look at this pattern. We have to say, even this, this was the quote-unquote best interview, and it was Dana Bash, CNN, challenging him. But what, what is the, what, still what is is the point? You're still just letting this fascist lie and get in this idiotic logic loop where he says, well, this person assaulted law enforcement and he came at them with a gun. They say, wait, but he didn't. We've seen the video. He didn't, well the investigation will show that. Oh, okay. You're waiting for the investigation, but you will say that he was a criminal who assaulted law reinforcement and had a gun and all that. So he'll make his claims and And he'll back up Kristi Noem's claims about him brandishing a weapon, which he never did. And then every single time he's questioned about it, he'll just say there's an investigation, which there isn't. There's not going to be the normal FBI investigation that you would have in this case. They are going to have DHS investigate themselves.

1:07:13 Thomas: There's no accountability or consequences here unless the state of Minnesota somehow makes some happen. But that's it.

1:07:21 Thomas: And what is the point? The only tool that mainstream journalists have is the idea that if you ask someone a question like a child, like you're asking a child in a way that points out their hypocrisy or points out their contradiction, if you do that enough times, that does something, but it doesn't. The fascists just – for one, nobody is watching. The people who need to see it aren't watching. For two, the fascists can just lie. They know that they can't, they have to feel shame in order for your shaming to do anything. And yet we still do this. We're on 10, you're 10 years of treating fascists like normal people and normal politicians and asking them questions. Why are you asking them question?

1:08:09 Thomas: What, what, what does that do? What does it do? It does nothing.

1:08:17 Thomas: And then afterwards you have to be like, oh, thank you so much for coming and answering the question. Thank you. Thank you all due respect. Thank you, thank you. Mr. Bovino, thank you. Thank you for joining us. Let's watch this. Man, this is long, but this is really interesting.

1:08:30 Clip: Here sir you are still in Minneapolis and I want to get to a lot of questions that we have that are unanswered answered first and foremost is that Alex Pretti approached Border Patrol agents with a nine millimeter semi-automatic handgun I want go back to one of the videos and I know you can see it there and I want to ask you about

1:08:52 Thomas: You're going to try to have him watch the video. I'm going to skip ahead.

1:08:52 Clip: What you're seeing because multiple did he at any point pull out his weapon dana good morning and thanks for having me um the weapon and we do know that the suspect did bring a weapon a loaded nine millimeter high capacity handgun to a riot we do know that as far as what happened in that intervening moment with the video that you just that you just showed that's going to come to light through the investigation that's

1:09:07 Thomas: Suspect? Of what? Mm-hmm. Wasn't right. No, it's in the video, but you already saw it.

1:09:25 Clip: Being investigated and those facts and those questions will be answered soon enough okay but the Homeland

1:09:33 Thomas: So now she's going to do it. She's going try again. Oh, wow.

1:09:34 Clip: Security Secretary is not waiting for that investigation to take place before saying that Alex Pretti was quote brandishing a weapon let's go to video 7 because of course you know THIS FAR BETTER THAN I THE DEFINITION OF BRAND BRANDISHING IS A VING OR FLOURISHING SOMETHING ESPECIALLY A WEAPON AS A THREAT OR AN ANGER AND EXCITEMENT THAT'S JUST A STILL PHOTO OF WHAT ALEX PRETTY APPEARS TO BE HOLDING THERE IS NOTHING THAT WE HAVE SEEN THAT SHOWED HIM AS SECRETARY NOEM SAID BRANDISH A WEAPON. HAVE YOU, SIR, SEEN SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO SUPPORT

1:09:37 Thomas: Let's ask a question that points out the hypocrisy. This will do it? She's got him. We've got him now. Now, yeah, maybe he's got

1:10:17 Clip: WHAT THE the secretary said.

1:10:17 Thomas: Some different evidence. So what a great question. Well,

1:10:20 Clip: Dan, I think what we need to take a look at here is the situation in its totality. What happened leading up to this situation? The suspect decided to inject himself into a law enforcement action. What's not being said here is that the law enforcement agent is the fact that Border Patrol agents and law enforcement were conducting a targeted a law enforcement effort against a violent illegal alien that was nearby and that suspect injected himself into that law enforcement into that Law Enforcement situation with a weapon and what

1:10:29 Thomas: We know nothing suspect. Yeah, because it's not relevant. Blah, blah, blah. He wasn't anywhere near it.

1:11:00 Clip: Happened between um the the when that situation first came about and the shooting that's going going to be investigated. And we're going to get to the to the facts of that. Well, you said yesterday that this looks like a situation where the individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement. What evidence do you have that he wanted to massacre law enforcement? Because all the videos that

1:11:09 Thomas: All right. That did it. Cool. Now, OK, let's ask a question here. We'll get him. We'll give him Dana. That's a lie. OK, we've got him. We've got them. What evidence, guys? Oh, that's what? What's the point of this question? Hey what evidence do you have do you have other evidence that doesn't exist they teach you not to do this in like relationships and in parenting don't ask questions that you know the answer to they're just condescending like oh really did you did you steal the thing like you don't do that as a parent why why is that all journalists can do that's all they can do they're this they this is a flaw in journalism the thing they do is is useless useless oh you've got him you pointed out his lie here we go

1:12:00 Clip: We have and I do want to we just have a still shot up now, but I do control room want to play one of the other videos. Let's play a video number one again.

1:12:03 Thomas: We've got oh here we go that'll get him oh we've done so much research let's play this other video this will get him hey great oh I got you that's

1:12:10 Clip: IT DOESN'T LOOK ANYTHING LIKE HE'S TRYING TO MASSACRE LAW ENFORCEMENT. IN FACT, HE WAS FILMING AND THEN IT LOOKED LIKE HE WAS TRY TO HELP ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL THERE WHO WAS PUSHED DOWN BY LAW EnFORCEMENT, AND THAN THEY WENT AFTER HIM.

1:12:25 Clip: IN FACT, I BELIEVE THAT THE FANTASTIC TRAINING THAT OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT PARTNERS HAVE, THE FACT THAT THEY'RE HIGHLY TRAINED, PREVENTED ANY SPECIFIC SHOOTINGS of law enforcement so good job for our law enforcement in taking him down before he was able to do that and again dana let's look at why he was there in the first place was he simply walking by and just happened to uh walk into a law enforcement situation and try to direct traffic and stand in the middle of the road and then assault delay and obstruct law enforcement Or was he there for a reason? Did he fall victim to that violent and heated rhetoric by a Mayor Frey, a Governor Walz? Look, Dana, they're trying to portray border patrol agents and ICE agents as Gestapo, Nazi, and many other words. Did this individual fall victim, as many others have, to that type of heated rhetoric? I want to stay focused on this incident right now because what you were saying is that he went there to try to stop this law enforcement operation. All of the video that we have seen shows him documenting it with his cell phone, which is a lawful thing to do.

1:13:25 Thomas: Has nothing to do with anything now we got him this this this one will do it guys this will do I

1:13:40 Clip: And the only time he seemed to interact with law enforcement is when they went after him when he was trying to help an individual who law enforcement pushed down.

1:13:41 Thomas: Think this is the one he's gonna cry and he's gonna say you're right I'm so sorry I'm a fascist liar you got me I've been confronted

1:13:49 Clip: So where do you have the evidence to show that he was trying to impede that law enforcement operation? Sure. Dan, at first he was there in the scene. He was in the seen actively impeding and assaulting law enforcement to the point. But that's not illegal. He wasn't impeding it. He was filming it, which is a legal thing to do in the United States of America. Dan, let's not freeze frame adjudicate this now.

1:13:49 Thomas: With the truth oh

1:14:16 Clip: Now, he was there for a reason, and that reason was to impede law enforcement. What evidence do you have of that? And here's a good point, Dana, is the fact that de -escalation techniques were utilized during this action. Those de -eschalation techniques, whether it was physically trying to remove them from that law enforcement scene, that active law enforcement seen in which law enforcement were going after a violent illegal alien, or the use of pepper spray, which is another de -escalation technique. Those techniques did not

1:14:16 Thomas: Yeah don't freeze frame adjudicate what does that mean yeah

1:14:49 Clip: Work. Officers always tried to use the minimum amount of force necessary to either affect an arrest, which in this case was more than likely 18 USC -111, assault on a federal officer, or impugnation of struts. Where did he assault a federal office in any of the video that you have seen? Because it looked to us from every angle, sir, that he was approached by them when he was helping another individual who was pushed down.

1:14:50 Thomas: That didn't work what do you mean they didn'twork he was on the ground he was they were they were out of the picture we got him guys we got them here we go

1:15:16 Clip: What evidence do you have that he was assaulting any law enforcement?

1:15:16 Thomas: This will do it yeah he has evidence let's ask him what evidence

1:15:21 Clip: Dana, we don't need a suspect's help in an active law enforcement scene. When you say suspect, what is he suspected of? That's an active Law Enforcement scene. He knew that was an active law enforcement scene, especially when the officers approached him and it's very evident he did not need to be where he was and he decided on his own to stay there. When somebody is pushed down and a person's instinct is to help that person, when somebody's pushed down by law enforcement, you're saying that you just stand back and let law enforcement do what they're doing? I mean, is that really human nature? You know, Dana, every situation is different.

1:15:28 Thomas: He has I like that she asked that at least every situation

1:16:00 Clip: What our officers are faced with here in Minneapolis are chaotic, very difficult and violent situations in which individuals, and this suspect is not the only one to bring a loaded weapon to a riot. The situations are chaotic and ever -changing.

1:16:01 Thomas: Is different this is meaningless meaningless vapid nothing talk it's just fascism noises no information is provided by this it's not a riot there wasn't right at this point there's

1:16:17 Clip: Follow directions for law enforcement. Don't inject yourself knowingly beforehand into a law enforcement situation. With respect, it feels as though So in some ways, you're blaming the victim here.

1:16:28 Thomas: Respect why are you saying that

1:16:32 Clip: The victim, the victims are the border patrol agents. I'm not blaming the border control agents.

1:16:34 Thomas: The victims of the you ready for this the

1:16:36 Clip: The victim are the board of patrol agents, the suspect put himself in

1:16:37 Thomas: Victims are the border patrol the poor people who had to murder a guy here

1:16:41 Clip: That situation. The victims are the border patrol agents there. I want to go back to the gun, sir, because I think this is really, really critical.

1:16:47 Thomas: We go we got him this will do it what

1:16:52 Clip: You can see an agent, and I just want to goto, let's see here, video five.

1:16:56 Thomas: Are we doing what's the point what is the the point we

1:16:59 Clip: You can see a screenshot of a of an agent in a green jacket approach Pretti uh and then he appeared to take a gun away when the agent took the gun away which seems as though it was predi's gun that happened before predi was shot why was an unarmed man shot multiple times by law enforcement by your border patrol agents dana

1:17:17 Thomas: Got him this is I mean this is the best interview the best job it's still pointless and nothing it's pointless

1:17:25 Clip: You don't know he was unarmed I don't know he was unarmed.

1:17:27 Thomas: We do we can see it yeah he's

1:17:28 Clip: That's freeze frame adjudication of a crime scene via a photo.

1:17:28 Thomas: Unarmed we have a hundred

1:17:34 Clip: That's why we have investigators. That is why we an investigation that is going to answer those questions. How many shots were fired? Who fired shots?

1:17:34 Thomas: Angles what better 10

1:17:43 Clip: Where was the guns? Where were the guns located? All those questions are going to be answered in the investigation. We are not going going to adjudicate that here on TV in one freeze frame there.

1:17:42 Thomas: Those two fucking murders are answerable in the video okay

1:17:56 Clip: Okay.

1:17:55 Thomas: But you can say that

1:17:56 Clip: It's not a freeze frame. We're showing a video of one of your agents taking the gun away, and that happened before Freddie was shot.

1:17:57 Thomas: He was yeah. What are we doing here? Dana, CNN,

1:18:07 Clip: We don't know that agent was taking any gun away that could have been the agent's, because we don't Know that. The facts are going to come to light.

1:18:07 Thomas: All of media. We don't know anything. We

1:18:14 Clip: So you're disputing the video.

1:18:15 Thomas: Don't who we are. We don't where this is.

1:18:16 Clip: That's what happened. With an investigation. That is why we investigate. WELL, WITH RESPECT, YOU SAY THAT'S WHY WE INVESTIGATE, BUT YOU'RE ALSO DRAWING OTHER CONCLUSIONS THAT SORT OF FLY IN THE FACE OF WAITING FOR AN INVESTIGATION. I JUST WANT TO ALSO GO BACK TO WHAT I WAS ASKING ABOUT WITH REGARD TO WHAT SECRETARY NOEM SAID, THAT HE WAS BRANDISHING A GUN. At any point, do you have any evidence that, yes, he had a gun on his person? Was he brandishing it? Was he a threat because he had A gun in his hand that

1:18:20 Thomas: Investigating would mean watching this video like we're doing.

1:18:45 Thomas: What is the point of this question? Do you have evidence of that? No, he doesn't have evidence that. You know it. I know it, we all know it!

1:18:49 Clip: Put law enforcement in danger? We heard the law enforcement officer say gun, gun, gun. So at some point, they knew there was a gun. So again, that is going to be part of that investigation as to what was happening on the ground there between those victims the border patrol agent victims and the suspect both the police chief in minneapolis o'hara and governor walz say pretti was legally licensed to carry a concealed weapon so are you saying it's not okay for him to exercise his second amendment right not to mention his first amendment right to be there in the first place but his second amendment right to carry a gun and if you do you can be shot by federal law enforcement? No, I didn't say that, Dana. I never said that. What I'm saying is we respect that second amendment right, but those rights don't, those rights don't count when you riot and assault, delay, obstruct and impede

1:18:58 Thomas: I knew there was a gun I didn't

1:19:51 Clip: Law enforcement officers and most especially when you mean to do that beforehand how do you know When you mean to do that beforehand, when you show up to an active crime scene, don't leave the crime scene and you're armed, then, you know, you've got the decision-making process for

1:19:52 Thomas: So we don't need the investigation for that what crime what do you mean crime scene what crime was happening

1:20:11 Clip: That individual doesn't seem to be very good. Now, back to the Second Amendment, what you're saying about the Second amendment is peacefully protesting with firearms. Absolutely, I've done that myself and fully support that. But not when you perpetrate violence, obstruct delay, or obfuscate Border Patrol in the performance of their duties in an active crime scene. There's no evidence that he was perpetrating violence.

1:20:25 Thomas: It's too bad nobody killed you obfuscate we got

1:20:37 Clip: And there's no evidenc, unless you have it, and we'd love to see it if there is, that he was intending to massacre law enforcement, other than the fact that he was there and he had a gun lawfully.

1:20:37 Thomas: It there's no evidence we got him yes this is useless fucking useless I

1:20:49 Clip: He meant to be there beforehand. Again, Dana, he came there beforehand for a reason. How do you know that because he was there but all he was doing was filming and documenting it which is legal he was carrying a gun which in minneapolis I didn't say it wasn't and I didn'T say it WASN'T legal so then what did he do that was illegal assault federal law enforcement, when he does that, that's an active law enforcement crime scene in the video that he decided to enter into where do you see in the videos that he was assaulting law enforcement because from everything we have seen law enforcement was assaulting him when he was there

1:20:53 Thomas: Came there because crime scene active crime scene what are you talking about look

1:21:25 Clip: Trying to help another individual.

1:21:25 Thomas: We're not going to freeze frame what is the point we're

1:21:27 Clip: Dana, law enforcement doesn't assault anyone. Follow directions of law enforcement.

1:21:27 Thomas: Just stuck in a loop oh this is actually important this is important

1:21:31 Clip: See in the video

1:21:32 Thomas: This is very important um amongst all this nonsense and logic trap that we're in that's pointless he has a quote here that's that's genuinely jaw -dropping you ready for this Because

1:21:45 Clip: That he was assaulting law enforcement because from everything we have seen, law enforcement wasn't assaulting anyone. Law enforcement was assaulting him when he was there trying to help another individual. Dana, law enforcement doesn't assault anyone, follow directions of law enforcement followed directions of law enforcement in an active crime scene uh is very evident he didn't want to do that very evident that the other individuals didn't wanna do that and um you know it's uh it's too bad the consequences had to be paid because he injected himself into that crime scene I can't say that enough he made the decision to go there we didn't make the decision to talk to him. We didn't even know that individual was in existence until he came into that crime scene. I want to go back to video number one, because you

1:21:57 Thomas: Law enforcement doesn't assault anyone. Active crime. It's not a crime scene. It's a crime thing. Yeah. Oh, that'll

1:22:33 Clip: Keep saying that he

1:22:33 Thomas: Do it. Law enforcement doesn't assault people is what he said. This is what this is fascism. This is what he believes. Nothing that an ICE agent ever does in Greg Bovino's mind and in the mind of this administration. Nothing they do can ever be wrong. Definitionally, it can't be wrong, wrong. The only acceptable course of action for the fascists is 100% obedience. We're there, folks. Anything can be justified by this logic. Anything. Anything can be justified. There's no, because there's no logic. It's just fascism noises. But we're just going to ask him another time. Hold on. Let's show him a video again. That'll do it.

1:23:17 Clip: Injected himself into the crime scene, he was a guy on a street filming an operation, he wasn't, he wasn't far away, he wasn't on the crime scene, and what I want you to see again is that law enforcement appears by the video we have to be approaching him and the person who is next him not the other way around and so what I want to know is what evidence do you have that he went after law enforcement sure the fact that he was standing in the middle of the road there was interaction between him the bystanders and law enforcement and again follow directions of law enforcement he doesn't need to be in the of a crime scene Dana, I don't think you would want to be the middle crime scene or you would civilians in the crime scene injecting themselves into something that is none of their business at all.

1:23:46 Thomas: Let me handle that. In the middle of a crime scene it wasn't a crime scene until you killed him that was the crime she

1:24:12 Clip: Can you also just answer the question about the gun?

1:24:13 Thomas: Never asked what the crime scene can you just answer

1:24:16 Clip: Because, again, do you have any evidence that he was brandishing his weapon? Did he ever have his hand on the weapon?

1:24:16 Thomas: The question that's what the investigation's for Dana don't you get

1:24:24 Clip: Again, the officers on the ground, in that melee, we hear gun, gun, guns. So that gun, at some point, became visible to officers. But could it have been because they had him on the ground and maybe his shirt came up and they saw that it was on him? That doesn't mean that he was... That is why we have an investigation, Dana. That is what we are investigating. You're not going to know that now, and I'm not going to know that. I think an investigation is great, but the Homeland Security Secretary said he was brandishing a weapon. Do you have evidence that we haven't seen that he was brandishing a

1:24:35 Thomas: It there you go speculation no

1:25:01 Clip: Weapon? He brought a semi -automatic weapon to a riot, assaulted federal officers, and at some point they saw that weapon. So I do believe the secretary is 100% spot on in what she said. Why would you bring a weapon and assault a federal officer if you did not have intent to harm or delay or obstruct that federal officer with a weapon. You keep saying that he assaulted a federal officer, but, again, we have not seen evidence that that happened. It looked like he was on the defense, and, again he had a gun legally. It just it's it's sort of feels like we're in the upside down where

1:25:02 Thomas: Because it's a lie you fucking moron yeah

1:25:44 Clip: We have law enforcement and conservatives who are very pro Second Amendment saying the problem was that he had to gun legally know the problem is, as I said several times. Now is he injected himself. He put himself where he did not need to be. He put himself in and put law enforcement officers in jeopardy through his actions.

1:25:44 Thomas: How long could this go on like if you didn't have like the time limit

1:26:05 Clip: These were his actions not law enforcement officer's action. We had to react to an individual that

1:26:06 Thomas: Of TV TV and they had plenty of food and provisions. They could do this for a year.

1:26:12 Clip: Came there for a specific reason and again what that reason is we're gonna find more out about that in in the coming days. I'll be interested to see what his reason for being there while Border Patrol agents were arresting a violent criminal illegally and doing their lawful ethical and moral duties in Minneapolis that that's the question well but the question is also why is an American citizen now dead for the second time who who was there to document in this case and clearly to be there as a bystander which is his first amendment right he wasn't there to clearly document anything don't don't socially engineer the topic dana he was not

1:26:19 Thomas: We'll find out. Yeah, that is. Oh yeah. Oh,

1:26:58 Clip: There to document he came there for a reason and he obfuscated and delayed

1:26:58 Thomas: You ready for this? That's fair. Appeared to be. Yeah good. For a moment she almost said something that was obviously true. But then he calls her out and she's like, oh, that's fair, yeah. Yeah thank you Mr. Fascist. You're right. Appears to. What the fuck are we doing what what are we doing what is the point what what point why can't

1:27:23 Clip: The agent or agents, is it your understanding that more than one agent fired a weapon at Alex Pretti? Again, that's going to be part of the investigation. I'm not going to speculate on how many shots or who shot okay or that type of thing because I don't know. Are the agents who were involved still on the job? Uh, yes, they're, uh, these border patrol agents are, um, going to more than likely be on administrative duty, but, uh, they were the main border patrol agency. What does that mean? So they'll be off the streets for a bit, um, not in Minneapolis. They will, but only in Minneapolis here

1:27:31 Thomas: Know without the investigation only

1:28:02 Clip: They'll uh they'll they'll be at a different location. Okay, and before I let you go, I just wanna button up one point that you were making about what Alex Pretty was doing there. Do you accept that it is the law that an individual has a right to film what law enforcement is doing?

1:28:02 Thomas: Minneapolis do you hear that quick quick point here we go yeah okay

1:28:21 Clip: I believe that all citizens of the United States have those First and Fourth Amendment rights as long as they do so peacefully and don't delay, obstruct, or assault anyone in doing that. AND THAT'S THE ISSUE HERE, BECAUSE HE WAS NOT PEACEFULLY DOING ANYTHING. ALL RIGHT. AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, AND WE 'VE SEEN THIS VIDEO MULTIPLE TIMES FROM MULTIPLE ANGLES, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS DOING ANTHING OTHER THAN BEING PEACEful UNTIL THE ALTERCATION BEGAN. AGAIN, I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THE OTHERS. THE OUTER EVIDENCES AND THE INVESTIGATION THAT YOU HAVE, BECAUSES WE DO WANT TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS AND DO WAN TO GET ALL OF THE FACTS AS THEY ACTUALLY HAPPENED. CHIEF BOVINO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

1:28:52 Thomas: I look forward to seeing it great yeah let's get to the bottom of this mystery thank you oh

1:29:01 Clip: I really appreciate you being here and answering questions.

1:29:02 Thomas: Mr. Fascist I appreciate you so much answering

1:29:04 Clip: Thank you, Dana.

1:29:05 Thomas: Questions I know it's a small thing I know it's like I guess the professional courtesy what did what what did he do did he answer questions he didn't answer questions you're thanking the thank you for being here and lying your fucking face off and doing nothing and being useless and a fascist there's no point it's it just sickens me here's another one jake tapper uh this is useless this is useless I I see what we're like there's some sort of conventions of journalism that mean you can only say certain things that are you've judged to be like facts but you can't say anything that would be perceived as being like opinion I guess or something and so you're forced to act like an idiot again dana dana bash brilliant person probably brilliant person she's forced to to ask a toddler the same question over and over. What use of brain power is that? This one's even better. Jake Tapper here, I guess I appreciate that he's trying to go out of his way to do this, but now he's going to do, this is another toddler thing. So now he is going to ask us toddlers to point out the difference between the two pictures.

1:30:29 Clip: ICU nurse from the Minneapolis VA who was shot and killed today by federal agents. The first image you're going to see is him standing in the middle street of Minneapolis, holding his cell phone, filming these federal agents, An individual approached U.S. Border Patrol officers with a 9mm semi-automatic handgun. The officers attempted to disarm this individual, but the armed suspect reacted violently. Fearing for his life and for the lives of his fellow officers around him, an agent fired defensive shots. Medics were on the scene immediately and attempted to deliver medical aid to the subject, but he was pronounced dead at the scene. The suspect also had two magazines with ammunition in them that held dozens of rounds. He also had no ID. This looks like a situation where an individual arrived at the seen to inflict maximum damage on individuals and to kill law enforcement.

1:31:35 Clip: There's still a lot we don't know about this shooting. Apparently, Pretti had a gun on him. He also had a concealed carry permit, according to law enforcement. It looks as though, in the video, that his gun was taken from him by law enforcement before he was shot. It also looks as if he never actually held his gun or reached for his gun, at least based on the three or four videos we've seen of the event. Still a lot of unanswered questions, but just tell me what you think.

1:32:04 Thomas: Just three or four videos. You ready? Find the difference. What do you think?

1:32:10 Clip: Did what you saw on that video square with how Secretary Noem described it?

1:32:17 Thomas: Tough question for me, a toddler. I think Jake would say, because I did question him on some of this stuff on this channel that I think this is on, I think he would say that it's his only responsibility or his job is to just point out facts like this. And then it's my job. It's like the partisan media's job. They're the activist media's job and he said this sincerely and I I do at least understand more where he's coming from it's our job to say that guy's a fucking liar and I sort of get that but there are things that are true in an objective sense that should be quote-unquote news that are far beyond what what they where they draw that line is important you know if if tomorrow some Maga decide that AOC is a lizard person? Every time AOC comes on CNN, does he have to say now this person appears to be AOC? Appears to be. Does he have to say that every time? Does he have to give that caveat every time because some people believe she might not be who she says she is? Like where you draw that line matters. And I don't think there's anything that can be done done now. I don't think anything can be done now, probably. But what needed to happen was in 2016, all of journalism needed to realize that there's no point in asking liars questions. There's no Point. There's No Point to doing it. You're not getting information. You're Not Doing Anything Useful. You 'Re Just Letting Them Lie. And Then You Have To Pretend to be an idiot. You have to pretend to be a moron. I can't do that. I don't know how these people are so smart. Like Jake Tapper, you know, Dana Bash, like these journalists are really smart and their job is to pretend, to be stupid. It's just like humiliating. That can't be, that can't be how it's supposed to be. That cannot be how journalism is supposed to work.

1:34:37 Thomas: What you would need to do is every single time and again this would still be consistent with like this quote unquote objective journalism bullshit every time you have this liar on the show uh any of the liars you should you should have to say like oh this is a known liar by the way the ticker underneath should say like known liar um consistently deceitful uh constantly tells us stuff that That isn't true. Is lie is motivated to lie because he just seems to defend everything I said. Like that's that's like context you need. If you approach, if just pretend, pretend journalists who aren't listening, just pretend that someone is a dishonest actor who will lie every time that it suits them. Just pretend that exists hypothetically. And it was your job in the news to to like report on an interview that person. Would it be useful to approach every single interview as though it's the first one and just let them lie with no content without like without the context of like oh by the way this person always lies it's it like that's deceptive that actually deceives your audience because when they see this nice calm setting when they see this respect when they say oh thank you so much for coming to answer our questions when they See that that normalizes it and they think oh okay it was It's just that's just their view. I guess it's just a normal guy they're interviewing. And this is all normal. That's how we've normalized this. This isn't normal. This is like 22 minutes of Dana Bash asking someone a question that she knows the answer to. Do you have other evidence? No, we know the fuck he doesn't have other evident. We know that. Why are you asking that? You might as well be asking, like, were there aliens there? Did the aliens come and abduct the other evidence like it's the same? There's no value.

1:36:36 Thomas: Find a different way to do things because this is useless.

1:36:42 Thomas: I think it's the reason that no one really watches this stuff anymore. I shouldn't say no one. I don't want to turn into like MAGA, but, like, I think this is the reason why fewer and fewer people are consuming this kind of news because it's not useful. I mean, on the right, they still say that you're always lying and that you are on the left. They still smear the media as being on the the left. And then on the left, we're, I think, realizing that this is just not useful. What information am I getting from that? What information am I getting from asking him? Now, do you have evidence that he brandished a gun? No, he doesn't. We know he doesn't. Let's spend another hour asking the same question. It's useless.

1:37:25 Thomas: These are fascists. Actual, actual fascists, there's nothing that an ICE agent can do. You heard Greg Bovino say that ICE agents don't assault. They don't assault people. There's nothing they could do that would be wrong in his mind. You know, when I went on to, I sometimes go on to the Reddit r slash conservative to just kind of check. And there's a lot of justifying this there. But there's actually, I think they've gone a little too far for some conservatives on this one, especially because he was a licensed gun owner with a concealed carry permit and I think what's interesting to see is that they they take it out on Noem I think probably because she's a woman because bovino is just as just as bad it's worse but no it's all about Noem and a lot of them are saying this was not a good and I saw a lot of them defending the Renee Good murder but not this one which is wild to me because they're both Both awful. But I think the difference is the gun. Now, while that is, I guess, a good thing, and I do think this lying is beyond for anyone paying attention, for certain people who are paying attention. I think it is too far, and that's good. You get a chance to talk to any of these people, what I would like, I think an important point to make is you can't just say, oh, well, this shooting was a bad shooting.

1:39:01 Thomas: Because even in this shooting, even if you if they agree that this shooting was a bad shooting, then they what they need to do is contend with the fact that the fascist apparatus did the same thing it does with a quote unquote good shooting in their mind. They smeared the victim. They called him a terrorist. They said he was brandishing weapons. You need to recognize that, like, in the previous paradigm, you had some ability to say in a certain shooting, well, that was a bad one. There's a bad apple. Because even if a system was functioning perfectly, there might be a bad actor. And you had somability. I'm stretching because, you know, I think so many shootings are unjustified. But, like from a conservative point of view, I guess I'll say, you have some ability to say, well okay, that's a good one. That was a good point. And just take the L I guess. And so to speak, but that was in a paradigm where there would be an investigation. The people respond at the top would be responsible and would say, we're waiting the investigation. They wouldn't smear that victim as a, you know, as a domestic terrorist. And you could make some argument that like, if there's a bad apple, there's some amount of possible accountability there. But you do not have that ability here because if this was a bad shoot and just a case of bad apples, there's no consequences and they're covering for him and they'RE calling the victim a domestic terrorist. So you have to realize what that means. I'm speaking to this possible conservative. You have to realise what that means. That means no matter what they do, no matter how bad the shooting is, no mater how bad the misconduct is by ICE, they will justify it. And that is the potential for evil is infinite there. The apparatus is in place. They have a misinformation network that either will lie or just not show it. They'll either lie or not show It. And they have Republicans who probably know better, but realize to keep their jobs, they have to lie. And They have A fascist movement that that enjoys lying, that enjoys lying to our faces and knowing we can't do anything about it. And there might be some amount of true believers. But that architecture is unassailable. There's no way

1:41:34 Thomas: To limit that architecture. That architecture could go into a building of school children and shoot them all and say they're all terrorists. And the same thing would happen. The same thing Would happen. If they can defend this, they can defend anything and they will. The apparatus apparatus of lying and or omitting is responsible for stuff like this as well, for literal concentration camps.

1:42:03 Thomas: I saw this today. I think I had seen this, but I might have missed it.

1:42:10 Thomas: There's a concentration camp called Fort Bliss. There's more than one, but this is one of them. Look at this. ICE accused of sexually torturing migrants at former World War II camp Fort Bliss among 80 plus reported violations and I tracked it down because I, I always want to find the actual sources, um, and this is an ACLU report and it describes stuff that we're in we're in the bad place we're the camps this is this is the camps tell me the difference between this and the concentration camps other than scale other than skill and other than like choice of who the victim is. To 70 people who report chronic food shortages with meals sufficient for only about 50 individuals. People are forced to ration food, skip meals, or take turns eating. Take turns eating? We have people locked in a camp who have to take turns eat because they aren't given food. When food is available, it is often spoiled or are partially frozen, causing widespread vomiting, diarrhea, and rapid weight loss. Basic hygiene supplies are scarce. Pods receive only a handful of rolls of toilet paper, and people go days without soap, clean clothing, or access to functioning showers.

1:43:35 Thomas: Detainees describe tents and bathrooms flooded with foul water mixed with urine and feces, creating squalid and unsafe living conditions. What is the meaningful difference between that and a concentration camp? Other than, okay, there's no gas chamber? Is that where we're hanging our hat? But people are dying, people are lying about it. For example, access to medical care is equally alarming individuals with serious conditions report going days or weeks without prescribed medication or having medical requests ignored until someone collapses they are named here using pseudonyms to protect their identities Josephina who has diabetes described receiving insulin at erratic intervals that caused dangerous spikes and crashes in her blood sugar. Fernando went 15 days without his prescribed blood pressure medication. Others, including Ignacio, who previously suffered a stroke, report blurry vision and other clear warning signs, while officers fail to provide timely care. Detainees consistently say that staff do not respond to medical requests for days and that people must faint or bleed before receiving attention.

1:44:36 Thomas: And then here, tragically, Francisco Gaspar Andres, an immigrant from Guatemala, died of liver and kidney failure after he failed to receive appropriate medical care at Fort Bliss on December 3rd, 2025.

1:44:49 Thomas: So they killed him. He had to starve. He had the right to live. He had lived in disgusting, awful conditions, and then he died.

1:45:02 Thomas: We put someone in a camp. We deprived them of food. We deprived him of clean water. We made them live in filth.

1:45:17 Thomas: And we deprived them of medical care. We did this. Our country did this, and he died. He went to a camp to die.

1:45:29 Thomas: If you want to argue that the purpose of this camp isn't mass extermination yet, boy, that's a thin distinction. I haven't even gotten into the abuse here. Earlier this year, the ACLU reported on abusive conditions. By the way, this is not some leftist conspiracy reporting or something. This is the ACLU. This is this is really — the Washington Post has it too — the ACLU reported on abusive conditions at the largest immigration detention site in the country. Like Campos, officers beat up Samuel, a detained teenager who uses a pseudonym, so badly he had to go to the hospital. His right front tooth broke and he said one officer, quote, grabbed my testicles and firmly crushed them, while another, quote forced his fingers deep into my ears. He added that after the beating, damage to his left ear was so severe that he now has trouble hearing. And extreme and unlawful use of force is also prominent at Fort Bliss. Fort Bliss, the camp that we're putting people into where they go to live in horrible conditions and starve and die is called Fort Bliss everybody. Several detained individuals have described violent assaults by officers including sexual abuse. Ignacio, Samuel, and others report officers crushing their testicles during beatings. A tactic used while people were already restrained or after they refused coerced removal to Mexico. Abel, Benjamin, and Eduardo also reported being slammed, stomped on, or beaten when they expressed fear of being sent to Mexico or when they simply requested their medication. These are not isolated incidents. They reflect a pattern of brutality that violates ICE's minimal standards. Is leaked footage of an ICE Black site. It says It says, inside of 31 Hopkins Plaza, Baltimore, more than 50 people in rooms with no beds or bathrooms, people laying on filthy floors, guard beatings, and people with legal status being illegally held. People with legal service. People with status being illegally held.

1:48:07 Thomas: Another one. Children can be heard screaming and sobbing inside of ICE's concentration camp in Dilley, Texas. Let's check this one out.

1:48:27 Clip: I'm outside, it doesn't say out here and I've just been ordered to leave the premises. I've just been ordered to leave the premises and she's yelling at me right now. So I'm going to head back to my car and try and keep you abreast of the situation.

1:48:49 Thomas: We're there. We're There. Air? Is the meaningful difference between this and concentration camps? And think, if they go further with their $80 billion in budget, they build more facilities, they round up more people, they round up people who are citizens, and what's to stop them? What if they roundup U.S. citizens who they perceive to be, either whether because of racism Or actively because of political dissent, round up people, anyone they want, take them, put them in one of these death camps.

1:49:32 Thomas: What in your mind stops that? Where in this architecture that we're looking at of misinformation or of withholding of information or of lying or dumb, in this process does that get stopped? Who stops it? They don't let the FBI even investigate these shootings, both Renee Good and Alex Pretti. They're not doing a real investigation. They're not even doing an investigation. They're having DHS do it, investigate themselves.

1:50:08 Thomas: How do you think that's going to go? What, what, it might not be the worst case right now. It isn't the worst place. It isn't the worst right now because it can always get worse. It can always get worse. But what is standing in the way of that?

1:50:26 Thomas: What is standing the way that we're, we're in the process? Do you think there's what, what will have to happen? And you saw Greg Bovino be questioned for 22 minutes and just give the same lie over and over.

1:50:37 Thomas: Let's imagine ICE kidnaps, I don't know, a Democratic politician or activist. ICE kidnaps them and puts them in the camp and we never hear from them again.

1:50:55 Thomas: Do you think, like, what do you think happens? Do you Think Greg Bovinos says, oh man, we made a mistake. I'm now going to tell the truth on this one. Whoops.

1:51:06 Thomas: Do you think that the Republicans in Congress who can literally sit there and lie about January 6th in the presence of the police officers who protected them that day and fought and some died for them? Do you there do you think, oh, that'll be too far for them to the to the MAGA voters who love when we're upset? We'll be really upset if this happens. Do You think they think that they'll change their minds or will it only make them more happy?

1:51:40 Thomas: I think it's true that they've gone too far in a certain way here. I think that people have seen how bad the lie is here.

1:51:53 Thomas: Some people have. And the numbers have gone down for them. And it's possible we could win in the midterms enough to provide oversight or do something. But that's in another year. How much can be done in another two years?

1:52:16 Thomas: Or can we even win? Have they rigged the game so much that we can't actually win? I don't think they've rigged it completely, but they've done a lot.

1:52:28 Thomas: There is, under an actual democratic system, we should only need 50.1% of people to say enough of this. That's all we should need in an actual democracy. Democracy. In our system that has the filibuster in the Senate that gives red states way too much representation, disproportionate representation, we need a lot more than that. We need more people to say enough is enough. We've got the electoral college, I mean, the House, gerrymandered, all this stuff. We mean so many more.

1:53:03 Thomas: And then they continue. They continue. They continue to make it so that the percentage of people required for them to do whatever they want starts shrinking and shrinking, and it has been shrinking and shrinking through various mechanisms, voter suppression, again, propaganda, political pressure, and just misinformation.

1:53:26 Thomas: The amount of people they need to actually support the horrible shit they're doing goes down every day, I think. They need less and less support to continue having a stranglehold. What happens when that, when that amount gets down to the 30 or so percent of people it seems are genuine fascists who would genuinely do death camps. I, it's hard to believe it's that many, but it's, I don't know how many, but maybe not all the way to death camps, but a lot of really horrible shit. How do we, how do we, how do we get out of this, how do we possibly get out of this I some of you might be wondering like, what am I saying? What am I advocating for? And a lot of you, and I see you in comments and stuff, say things like, there's no nonviolent solution to this or the time for peace is over or, you know, other things, guillotines and Nuremberg and all that and buy guns.

1:54:25 Thomas: And I understand it, but I don't, people say there's no nonviolent solution. I don't even even know what the violent solution would be. Like straight up. I don't know what the violent situation would be in. This is why I'm so stuck. This is why. I found it so hard to even talk because I don't know what we can do about this. I. Don't. I don't like if every if we can't do it by voting, if we if we couldn't get enough people to to elect Kamala over Trump. Think about that. We couldn't.

1:55:07 Thomas: We But we're going to get enough people to buy guns and do a revolution when they have the army, the police, the military, all that they have, all the fascist jobs is mostly MAGA.

1:55:22 Thomas: And we can't, we can't get people to do the easiest thing in the world, which is vote against this. We couldn't even get enough People to do it. But you think there's some violent solution that that that could happen? I wish I wish. I agreed with that. I don't even understand what that could be. I don't understand what it could be. I don't blame people for thinking that I'll be honest, I'm wishing bad things to happen to ICE agents. I am wishing that in my mind, I wish so badly that some really bad stuff would happen to some really — not good — people. I know we want that, but if that happens, what happens next? Fixed. Let's say something really bad did happen to some ICE agents. What comes after that?

1:56:17 Thomas: I don't think anything good. I genuinely, this is my unguarded opinion. I think you had the most perfect couple of victims, which you shouldn't need obviously perfect victims, but we did, we got a few perfect victims. We got it. We gotta, I mean, taking just this recent one, we've got a nurse who was only trying to help and who was gunned down in the back it couldn't be more straightforward and yet it's still not like we're not like a hundred to zero on this there's still like 43 of america that thinks that was fine 43 now imagine there's been an attack on ice agents where do you think that number goes when ice retaliates when the federal government retaliates even harder. Where do you think that support number goes when there's been an actual serious attack on ICE? Do you think it goes down or up?

1:57:29 Thomas: And then what happens? Does ICE let up? Are they like, oh, we learned our lesson. You did something violent to us. We learned. We'll behave.

1:57:41 Thomas: I think that's nonsense. I don't think anything good comes of violence on ICE agents or anybody or any federal agents or anything. I just like genuinely, that's why I'm so stuck. I don't know what the peaceful solution is. I don'T know what the non -peaceful solution is, I mean, the peaceful solution, I can at least see, I can at least see what the path is.

1:58:11 Thomas: Theoretically, we could elect enough people to impeach Trump and do massive reform, get rid of the filibuster, pack the supreme court and take take control and um punish and jail the people responsible that I I can at least here's the thing I don't think that's going to happen but I can't at least see the path if we were to get enough people to support that I I see the mechanical path I don't see the mecanical path for a violent solution and there are so many people online line who seem to think that there is some violent solution.

1:58:56 Thomas: I think you're living in a, in a fantasy world. I don't know what, I don'T know what you're talking about. You think we're going to get more guns than the MAGA people and the, and the police and the military and ICE?

1:59:10 Thomas: I don't know what country you think you live in. I don't know what people you think YOU live with. The approval is still like 43% for this murder of a completely innocent man. Imagine when it's a crackdown because of an actual attack on ice imagine what would what the support would be I bet it'd be 65 who knows, 55, it's, it's gonna go up. And then what happens, what, what good comes of that, again?

1:59:44 Thomas: I, I don't blame people. I, I want to play this because a lot of people heard this, I heard it, I just want, I just wanted to talk about this. I

1:59:52 Clip: And on Wednesday, I got word that Renee Nicole Good was murdered in cold blood. And I made the decision right then and there that I was going to come up here one way or another. They fired the first shot. I'm not calling for peace anymore. I don't care what Fox News says. I don't care what that woman in the press room says. I'm no calling for piece. They fired a first shot, we have the second amendment for a reason. And it's time for people to come back here with weapons and show these people that we're equals. I can just feel the emotion coming off of you right now. You've been wearing it on your sleeve today. As I've seen you, like, have some interactions with other protesters here. Describe to me some of those emotions that you're feeling right now? I'm angry. I'm hungry. We knew this was going to happen. We knew This was going To happen. I knew This Was going To Happen the minute they called the election in 2024. 24. That's why what I did right when I knew the election was going to go the way it did. That's what I went and I bought my first gun. I used to hate guns. I think that it was insane that we have more guns than people in this country. And then in reality, I still do think that it's insane that we had more guns and people. But if we've got people like these guys out here just terrorizing people, kicking in doors with no warrants, kidnapping people with no cause and and murdering people for trying to flee and for obeying a command to leave the area and then shooting her in the face like that after she drops her kid off at school there's we have to show up with guns we have to there's no other way around it I don't care if I don t have a Minnesota carry permit I'm unarmed right now but this is the last time I show up to face these guys without a weapon there's no way they I got shot with a pepper ball five minutes after walking in here I never laid a finger on them I never raised a hand to them I've only been using my voice the time for speaking is over the time the time for niceties is over they fired the first shot it is time to end this shit by any means necessary how I mean you're talking about you know potentially go into a dark place in this country. Do you foresee? We're there. This is the dark place. This is a dark time. We have people being sent to Salvadorian concentration camps. We got other countries being raided for their oil. We're in the dark time, there's no way out of this. There's no voting our way out. We can't wait till November. There is no waiting to the ballot box. We need to get to the bullet box that's the only way if there was another way I'd be advocating for it I've spoken peacefully I've marched peacefully I marched without shock and I marched on washington I've been peaceful I've acted peacefully the time for peace is over the time for any means necessary is right now why

2:02:53 Thomas: Wanted to tell you I just I just wanna talk about it I want to talk to you about this because I watched it I I agree with so much of what he said, I feel, feel that anger. And I, I think it's so well stated in so many ways. I can almost not really find much to disagree with. And yet I don't think that's going to work. Possible that Alex Pretti saw this.

2:03:20 Thomas: Maybe I just hypothetically, and that's why he was was carrying a gun. And I want to be very careful because it is not his fucking fault. It is the fascist, awful monsters who executed for no reason. It's their fault.

2:03:42 Thomas: But if he didn't have that gun, I think he'd be alive. And that's heartbreaking. Again, it's not his fuckin' fault. He has the right to have that gun. He is the fascist's fault who executed him. This is not not a blame thing. It is merely like if I were thinking for myself, should I, like if this happened in my city, should I go to an ICE protest armed or not?

2:04:22 Thomas: I'm not going armed, even if I had a gun. I've never owned a gun, but if I did, because we're to the point where if they see that you have a gun they'll just shoot you and say gun.

2:04:35 Thomas: Did it help? Did it help to have that gun we are I I fully agree with this guy we're we're in the dark place and and is it is it possible that with some level of unrest that that could like provoke change I guess but I don't boy that's a gamble it's a huge gamble to people who I think I think you you can look in times past and say maybe some of these some some violent resistance had a had a good effect places I think I think there's historical examples of that okay but we also might be in a fundamentally different time because there's a misinformation machine a propaganda machine the likes of which I don't think has existed before the algorithm the digital bullshit shit. They're able to control the media to an extent that I mean, I could be wrong, but I think that's a massive difference. And I think they want violence. AndI think if Trump and MAGA and these fascists get their violence from us, I thinkthey crack down harder and I think their support goes up.

2:06:09 Thomas: I I wish that weren't true. I wish I didn't think this. Iwish there was some solution, peaceful or non -peaceful.

2:06:19 Thomas: But I genuinely don't, I don't think, I both think this guy is entirely right and justified in almost everything. And yet, ultimately, I, I do not think this will work. I think it will make things worse. I do know. Maybe, tell, tell me how I am wrong. I genuinely, I hope, I help someone convinces me I am right.

2:06:43 Thomas: I don't know what to do. We are in the dark place. We' re in the Nazi times. We have concentration camps.

2:06:53 Thomas: We ha ve stormtroopers. Accountable to nobody. Fascists who will lie and smear the victims as terrorists who are perfectly good people. We're in that time. We are in that time. What do we do? I don't fucking know. I'm tired of carrying on like things are normal. I am tired of everything, almost everything everybody says all the time. Because in my mind, we are at a funeral with armed madmen holding us hostage. Hostage that's my that's my mood like in the middle of a funeral at gunpoint and then people are like posting memes and I'm just like I don't I I don't know I get it I mean I get I get like the the feeling of helplessness some times can lead to that being your expression but I also worry that that's another thing that normalizes things that's another thing like the the way people are able to talk about these murders and post about about them and in ways that just seem so casual to me, even again, people on my side, they'll post like a quote from somebody. I just, I don't, I dunno. I don't get it. I don't get it and I don't know what to do. And I guess I hope getting this on the record does something.

2:08:29 Thomas: Maybe someone can just convince me there's something easy we can do. Maybe, maybe the comments will solve it for me. I dunno, but all I know is, this is a really, really, really, Really, really scary time. Trying to stop recording, but there is something I realized I omitted that I have to share. This is from an Atlantic article that a lot of people have been sharing. And I think this is particularly important because I think there's a lot of ignorant people, either intentionally or unintentionally ignorant people who cling to the letter of the hypothetical law about what's going on. Hypothetically, a conservative can say to themselves, hey, look, look, they're just there to enforce immigration. We have rules. We have laws. Certain people can't be here. They broke the law. There's actually pretty widespread public support for the idea that we need to deport illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, I mean, I don't think we particularly need to unless they're like horrible criminals and there's not very many of those.

2:09:37 Thomas: But that's me. I guess I'm in the minority in this country. And so a conservative can cling to that they can cling to like look they got to enforce the laws and then you know then they can say hey these blue cities they're not letting them enforce the laws. And that's what's causing they can blame it on us. They can blame the victim. They Can say if these blue Cities would just let them do their job. They just they just get rid of the bad people and that would be that and you know, there might be some some incidents here and there but you know they can cling to the the hypothetical ideal deal of what's going on. But the reality is horrible.

2:10:16 Thomas: Read this, or listen to this, I suppose.

2:10:22 Thomas: This is real. This is true. This isn't fake. I just want you to imagine, especially if you're a white person like me, imagine what this would be like. So this author is talking to somebody and says, Knutson mentioned in passing that his neighbor had, quote, an adopted brown kid down down there. They hid her in the basement yesterday. This kind of thing no longer sounds weird in Minneapolis. Many people are hiding indoors. So many that in a city with a substantial minority population, I hardly saw any black or Latino faces on the street.

2:11:04 Thomas: What is the meaningful difference between this and fucking Nazis? People of color are afraid to be seen, to be out in the public? This is real. This is not a fake conspiracy website. This is the fucking Atlantic. They're not even, they're practically conservative. This Is real.

2:11:31 Thomas: Do you like living in a country in a time where people of color who are just normal people are afraid to go out in public because of what might happen to them? Is that something you're okay with? I guess I'm speaking to a hypothetical conservative right now, because maybe you're okay with the idea of deportations. Maybe you're OK with that. But what's happening in practice is a fascist liar like Bovino will justify anything ICE does. And what ICE does is they grab anyone and everyone that they want. Let's watch something here. Saw this video in the Minnesota or Minneapolis subreddit. It I hope it's okay that I show it because they said they wanted people to show they want people to know what's going on here so I think I think we don't even know the extent of it I say we people who aren't there um this is the reality look at this look

2:12:37 Clip: Ice or any federal agent they can't enter one's home without a judicial warrant signed by a neutral and detached magistrate that's what's required under the fourth amendment can you put the guns down there's kids in this house you do have to show a warrant you guys see this all on live he said he doesn't have to show a warranty I'm a veteran I swore an oath back in 1969 to protect this country against all enemies foreign and domestic this is unbelievable I will tell you this brother what you know I will take you this you raise your voice I raise your voice if I raise my voice you'll erase my are you serious you said if I raise my you'll race my voice what the fuck is going on dude this is insane no you know what really pisses me off is the fact that they detain people, cuff them, and then still beat the shit out of them. Stop kneeing him in the face! Face!

2:13:06 Thomas: At that pepper spraying an elderly woman listen to this this

2:13:39 Clip: A lot of restraint and professionalism, as you can see on display. What we do is legal, ethical, and moral. Everything we do every day is legal ethical, moral, well -grounded in law. It's like Call of Duty! Take the shot. If they kick it, you take the shot! What I see out there is a very professional, prudent, and thoughtful law enforcement action.

2:14:01 Thomas: Is kind of visual I'm not going to describe everything sorry listeners maybe watch this they're knocking over elderly people they're this is all from this This invasion.

2:14:09 Clip: Law enforcement officers are here to bring peace and to bring public safety. The officers that we have out there are very highly trained and skilled, specific for the operations that they're doing.

2:14:19 Thomas: Pepper sprang inside a car for

2:14:20 Clip: They're utilizing the most gifted individuals on these operations. And they have handled this with grace. Then I can also see the point of view of the people that say, yeah, but you don't want militarized people in the streets just roaming around, snatching people up, many of which turn out to actually be U.S. citizens that just don't have their papers on them. Are we really going to be the Gestapo? Where's your papers? Is that what we've come to? They tell you it's immigrants, only immigrants. It's fucking anybody. There were four tribal members who were picked up by ICE in a community called Little Earth right here in Minneapolis, St. Paul. And one of them has been released, but they couldn't locate the other three. There's nobody more American than American Indians. You can't just detain somebody because they look like they are Somali or they look like they are Latino. To be very clear, for the whole country, that is what is happening right now. Why are you asking me for my paperwork? Because

2:14:20 Thomas: No reason with a kid in it, it looked like.

2:14:30 Thomas: This is Joe Rogan quote doesn't need to be in here because he doesn't actually give a fuck. It's a Native American man. Look

2:15:13 Clip: Of your accent. You have an accent too. Where were you born, sir? Where were your born at? Put your hands behind your back. And they they

2:15:24 Thomas: At this. Look, there's a million examples here. I just want to zoom in on that one to make the point.

2:15:33 Thomas: If you were skeptical or don't believe what I just read you, which is that black people and latino people just basically any non-white person are actively hiding like it's that like it's Anne Frank practically if you're skeptical of that look at that interaction look at what just happened they're asking a random guy they're

2:15:54 Clip: Drove me all the way to Minneapolis. I don't know where. Where were born at. You have

2:16:00 Thomas: At someone's house they're ask him papers please he responds in the way he does he points out that the the the officer, the ICE officer questioning him has like the same accent he does. And then they start violently shoving him into the wall and arresting him.

2:16:23 Thomas: Where do you think this goes? What do you think is happening here? There are no consequences for these people currently, unless something drastically changes.

2:16:34 Thomas: They're going around. They are racial police. They are just policing the race of the people there. Look at this.

2:16:42 Clip: An accent, too. Where were you born sir? Where were you born on put your hands behind your back and then they drove me all the way to minneapolis I don't wear middle of nowhere my son grabbed my id showing to them and they didn't say anything this isn't sorry or anything they just okay you're good why would I not be a citizen of this country man I'm working dude you were from this country what do you mean if I'm from this country I can hear you don't have the same accident as me that's why oh so you're going by accents now but this is not a group that's going around and looking for people who violated the law based on skin color all right can

2:16:48 Thomas: That's it. That is all I ask. Where were you born? Shoves him against the garage arrests him this is that old man who is mong I think wearing almost nothing they have him out in the freezing one degree cold he was a citizen yes

2:17:22 Clip: We see an id please I am u .s citizen I don't need to carry around an id in my home where were you born this is my home maniapolis is my it was last thursday two target employees were arrested ALLEGEDLY INJURED BY ICE AGENTS ON THE JOB. A RICHFIELD LAWMAKER SAYS THEY WERE CITIZENS AND RELEASED. This guy right here, they let him out of the vehicle. They tortured him. You OK, man? No, I'm not OK. Bro, it's crazy.

2:17:22 Thomas: It is I believe that was

2:18:02 Clip: My man's bleeding, bleeding.

2:18:02 Thomas: A 17 year old that they hurt really bad and then just dumped him out of the car that

2:18:05 Clip: They slammed me on the ground. We got to be able to call somebody. It's just ridiculous. If it is happening to our officers, it pains me to think at how many of our community members are falling victim to this every day. It has to stop. Where are the don't tread on me guys when the federal government is overstepping state control? To all ICE officers, you have federal immunity in the conduct of your duties. And anybody who lays a hand on you or tries to stop you or try to obstruct you is committing a felony. The precedent here is very simple. You have a federal law enforcement official engaging in federal law enforcement action, that's a federal issue. That guy is protected by absolute immunity. No, I didn't say and I don't think any other official within the Trump administration said that officers who engaged in wrongdoing would enjoy immunity. That's absurd. Live images from the Target Center in downtown Minneapolis where anti -ice protesters are gathered after marching through the brutal cold. You had agitators and violent American citizens out in the streets of Minneapolis protesting protesting what exactly we've just learned the woman who was killed was 37 year old Renee Good is that agent Ross's voice calling Renee Good a fucking bitch I can't determine which one it is but it could be sir hats off to that ice agent it was an act of domestic terrorism yeah Yeah, exactly. Let people go to church. You did not learn from what just happened? And now you're considered a domestic terrorist.

2:19:38 Clip: We're videotaping you? Are you crazy? The man a Border Patrol agent shot and killed was a 37 -year -old ICU nurse who worked at the VA. And we believe he is a lawful gun owner with a permit to carry. This individual who came with weapons and ammunition to stop a law enforcement operation of federal law enforcement officers committed an act of domestic terrorism that's the facts where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement you cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want it's that simple you don't have that right to break the law we do not have evidence that he was waving a gun doing anything to threaten Border Patrol the victim are the Border Patrol agents the suspect put himself in that situation The victims are the border patrol agents there your secretary of state says everyone who's here citizens and non -citizens deserve due process Do you agree? Mr. I don't know. I'm not I'm a lawyer. I Don't know well the Fifth Amendment don't you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States as press? I don't know. This is nothing new Read history you learn from history

2:20:49 Thomas: Was from this min max channel uh it does say please help share what's happening any residents so hopefully it's okay that I played that uh they're policing the race of the residents of minneapolis and that's it the race and sometimes the politics if you dare question them I don't know what to do but the only thing I think the only think I think can actually even have the potential of success is a massive political shift I get it I hear all the oh you think we're going to vote our way out of this well I'll tell you this we could have just voted for kamala that was I'd forget the exact number but that was what a few hundred thousand votes away I mean I forget maybe that one wasn't that close but electoral college wise it was it was pretty close that we wouldn't be here and people do this thing where it's like oh yeah well things would still be bad yeah things would so be bad there'd be a lot I'd be a ton that would be bad in kamala harris's america um it wouldn't be fascist concentration camps and the things that were bad, we would have the ability to complain about it to people who have some amount of shame. We'd be able to maybe alter their behavior and lives would be saved. Lots of lives wouldbe saved.

2:22:09 Thomas: So voting wouldn't have solved everything in that moment, but it would have solved a lot. And it wasn't that far.

2:22:21 Thomas: We I get the cynicism and I get the frustration but this idea that voting can't work even though we just literally have the numbers on the spreadsheet that say it would have prevented a lot of this you know you can go back the last several elections if we hadn't lost the senate in 2014 none of this shit would have happened like and that was that you know like that's it's true um but even if you want to say voting isn't going to solve everything it's not and there's a lot of shortcomings and all that which I fully agree with what's the other thing you're talking about and how practical is that really do it in your mind do the do the simulation in your head and do the same thing of what your plan is and what it what actually happens and I think there's is a shortcut people do where they assume this other solution will somehow have enough people to do it, which to me seems fucking impossible. That seems nuts.

2:23:36 Thomas: And to, to overcome the barriers, to overcome them, the, the military, the police, the everybody, the kinds of numbers you would need. And the idea that that if you could get all those numbers to do that, to, To start engaging in not peaceful solutions, something that's like not easy to get people to do, you're going to get enough people to do that, but you can't get people to just vote. I don't know what world you're living in. Again, it's not that voting's the thing that will solve everything, but I don't What else are you talking about?

2:24:20 Thomas: So I don't know. Again, we might be fucked. We might just be fucked, but the only path that's close, the only pathway that is conceivable is massive political change and real reforms. Will we get it? I don't know. But it's literally the only path that has any chance. You tell me if I'm wrong. Explain to me how I'm right. In detail, the steps. How many people it would need, roughly. Because I can tell you all that. I can pull out a spreadsheet, look at the electoral map, and tell you here's how many people we would need to get 60 senators and the House and the presidency eventually to be able to just fix everything we literally if we had the right 60 senators or it's sorry I don't even know why I said 60 if we have the right 50 senators plus a vice president we could get rid of the filibuster and then we could do whatever the fuck we wanted now is that going to happen I'm not saying it will but I can point to the numbers and they're conceivable and working toward that is conceivable and some amount of success along the way to that is conceivable. What are you pointing to? What numbers?

2:25:37 Thomas: And if you're going to say, which I'm sure people will, oh, no, I'm just talking about buying a gun to protect myself in the event that things get really bad. Okay, that's not what I'm talking about. That's not what I'm talking about. If you're just, you know, I still don't agree with that because I think guns are more danger than they prevent, but I get it. I get that you want to arm up. I totally understand. There's I'm talking about the people who say there's some non -peaceful solution to this problem to those people. That's what I'm trying to do.

2:26:06 Thomas: I think I think you're living in a fantasy world. So the only thing that I think we can do is try to convince people.

2:26:17 Thomas: That's awesome. You know, but we we have to if if we ever get the chance, if we never get the power again, we have we have have to end this propaganda network. The misinformation machine has to be stopped somehow. I think there's hopefully smarter people than me who could find a way to do that, but it has to and it might be drastic. We need to seize power in the way that Trump has and use it to dismantle their propaganda machine.

2:26:48 Thomas: Again, there's a lot of ifs. I don't know if that'll work, but we have to start seriously thinking about getting power back and using it really, really well. And we need to be angry. We need to be shocked.

2:27:04 Thomas: Okay, I will hit stop now. Thank you to anyone who listened to this and be safe out there.