DOD236: Find You a Woman Who Hates Men?

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's two -thirds going to QED. I'm Tom Curry, and I'm not, but I'm joined by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick, who are... Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:40 Eli: Tom, we can't define ourselves by the things we're doing that you're not. That means the intro would take up the whole show. The podcast that goes out to eat sometimes, the podcast that's allowed to touch grass without getting a rare parasite dropped by a Chinese spy plane. You need to come up with things more specific, Tom.

0:00:50 Thomas: Not often.

0:00:59 Tom: That's true. That is true. You guys don't smile, do you? Like, you're not, like, happy.

0:01:04 Eli: Rarely.

0:01:05 Tom: Okay, good. All right. I just want to make sure.

0:01:06 Eli: I medicate myself up to the occasional smile.

0:01:06 Thomas: You picked a bad example. Yeah. What?

0:01:09 Tom: Yeah, good. Yeah, I kind of pin one. They call it a rictus. I think it's more of a rictus than it is a smile.

0:01:13 Eli: Ooh, I call that the Zing Zing the monkey smile.

0:01:16 Tom: Whoa, that's got a very, is that a, is this an Italian brain rot thing? No? Are you sure?

0:01:19 Eli: So no, it's not. This is one of my favorite TikTok monkeys. So she is a monkey first of all she's a queen so yeah

0:01:26 Tom: Wait a minute. Did you say one of your favorite TikTok monkeys? Like you have a lot of, I

0:01:28 Eli: I mean she has top five

0:01:30 Thomas: We've heard him talk about, just on this show, we know about several TikTok monkeys, I feel like.

0:01:35 Eli: Yes I come with my full heart full of monkeys

0:01:38 Tom: Feel like monkeys come up on this show more often than I would have anticipated when we began this show.

0:01:42 Eli: Really interesting I'm surprised that you're surprised I'm not surprised at the monkeys I'm surprising you're suprised we understand yeah so zing zing the monkey she is a donkey that lives in a like a small town that has a monastery attached to it and she was hurt by a trap when she was very young and so the monastery took her in and they feed her and she's a full -bodied queen if you know what I'm saying and she'S very photogenic people come from all over the country to to see

0:01:49 Tom: Okay that's fair yeah give me give me zing zing the monkey

0:01:49 Thomas: I want to hear about whatever the smile was. Those bastards.

0:02:08 Tom: Smile just a full -bodied queen oh

0:02:10 Eli: Her and one of the reasons why people come to see Her is that so monkeys show aggression by baring their teeth but it looks like she's doing an office smile you know that thing where you're walking down a hall and another person's walking down the hall and you go like I'm not allowed to scream dear god kill me so you just pull your cheeks backward in a rictus of human life she does that and you realize we're just like we're four genes away from her cause every time a fucking Taurus comes up and is like let me feed you a banana she does like a good to see you Carol how are your kids it's the fucking

0:02:10 Thomas: What the fuck? Oh my God. Wow wow that's

0:02:46 Eli: Best she has recently started attacking people much like all of society is broken down so too have Zing Zing's walls and what's amazing is now her village and the the only reason people come there is to see Zing Zing the monkey is just plastered in signs that are like Zing, Zing. The monkey fucking hates you. Please don't approach her or she'll attack you. It's the best.

0:02:48 Tom: Of course sure I have this thing where like when the animals start attacking like you know like the orcas have started sinking boats and like I could not be more team orca like every time I read one of those stories we're like yeah orcas

0:03:08 Thomas: Funny wow it's like a three -year -old story that's where tom is occasionally it gives me an idea of where tom is in the time

0:03:20 Tom: No they keep doing it they keepdoingit they keep sinking yachts yeah they keep syncing

0:03:24 Thomas: Continuum no they do it is you actually talked to a whale expert on sio about it and she was like yeah it's mainly just like coincidence that people because I am also rooting for the whales and I was I was really hoping she'd be like yeah they're communists they've had a meeting

0:03:39 Eli: It's crazy. It's socialist. They all got a copy of the communist manifesto and it made a lot of sense to them.

0:03:40 Tom: Yachts no

0:03:40 Thomas: They're it's antifa yeah yeah I was Really hoping it'd be that she was Like well it's kind of just like occasionally the you know some asshole gets close and they kill the boat like oh okay can't you scientists just say something good then maybe that's why we defunded

0:03:54 Tom: That's not so I

0:03:54 Eli: Ah, ruin it. Yeah. That's the kind of skepticism that always bums me out. It's like Coco, the gorilla. Yeah.

0:04:00 Thomas: You yeah what oh the wait which one the sign language one yeah yeah

0:04:03 Tom: Oh the the one that could sign language gorilla

0:04:05 Eli: Sign language gorilla. It's not real. And then whenever you talk about Coco, Coco? Coco's not real. She's a magic trick.

0:04:07 Tom: What do you mean it's not real what do You mean wait a minute hold on a second slow the fucking train down because you're breaking my fucking coco heart live on air right now you're

0:04:17 Eli: This is exactly what I'm

0:04:19 Thomas: Yeah that's Why Everyone Hates Us

0:04:19 Eli: About to say. This Is Why It's So Upsetting is Coco was a magic trick. Her trainers would signal to her what signs she was supposed to make. She was just them doing a magic trick at people. I know.

0:04:27 Tom: A magic trick god damn it our next thing you're going to tell me is that horse that stomps its hooves that can't actually do math it's god damnit

0:04:35 Thomas: My favorite one was this is I don't think this gets shared as much now but this feels like an early internet one was they asked this monkey about climate change do you remember that one it'd be this video they're like they asked the sign -language monkey it might have been a different one because I don' know if this is that same original one still alive They asked about climate change. No, it's literally just a meme video. It was literally just a mean video. And I always thought it was so fucking funny. Cause like what insight, you know, cause they do the sign language and then I'm sure it's roughly translating into like, Oh, care for our environment or something. It's like, what do you think a gorilla is going to tell us about climate? Like, it'S just so fucking stupid.

0:04:47 Tom: Wait what was this an snl skit this feels like an snls skit and not a good one yeah the global perspective of the gorilla is not something I'm like keen to get here fucking what does a tree taste like is a good question

0:05:20 Thomas: Yeah. I'm guessing the gorilla is gonna be like, Oh no, don't. Who is that? Who's that convincing that isn't already convinced?

0:05:25 Eli: Now, when you say carbon output, what the fuck are you talking about?

0:05:34 Thomas: Did you say carbon output? What are you talking about? Oh, out foot. Yeah.

0:05:35 Eli: I meant output. Yeah yeah yeah

0:05:34 Tom: He did say carbon output. No, output.

0:05:38 Eli: Output yeah

0:05:39 Thomas: Oh, and you combined it with footprint, I think. I like that. Okay.

0:05:42 Eli: He's just signing do you know how many concepts I would have to understand to care about climate

0:05:48 Thomas: Yeah, it's the equivalent of that family joke where the guy's like, he's like you speak English? No, just that sentence in this one explaining it. What?

0:05:56 Tom: I actually love that. That's great.

0:05:56 Thomas: Okay. It's such a good joke. It's like the monkey learned enough to be like, do you know how many concepts I'd have to understand? That's it.

0:06:03 Eli: Change but gentlemen do you know the only thing worse than bringing a monkey's attention to climate change why it's the auto ads

0:06:09 Thomas: Shattering Tom's dreams about the monkey.

0:06:12 Tom: Fucking had one thing to be happy about. Thank you.

0:06:14 Thomas: This is the one thing Tom still had.

0:06:14 Eli: The auto adds the climate change of your podcasting experience if people didn't want so much money they wouldn't have been here it would have been fine but greedy greedy capitalists like the smiths inserted these podcast ads and there's no way to get them out scientists have moved the podcast doomsday clock another minute forward in the saddest nerd action they ever do a year to tell you you have to head to patreon .com forward slash god awful movies and and pledge as little as a dollar to help keep this show going. And also, you get a commercial -free version of every single show, plus bonus episodes, monthly bonus episodes. All sorts of fun. You can get it all over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dads. As that monkey said of the hole in the ozone, rip into it.

0:06:36 Thomas: I disagree.

0:07:06 Tom: Know we

0:07:13 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:07:15 Tom: Don't do often enough gentlemen is discover and play and discuss tiktoks feel like we should have more tiktok

0:07:25 Thomas: I think we do enough of that.

0:07:25 Tom: And tiktak related content mostly because thomas smith I know you love the audio quality and I know nothing makes you happier than playing the audio quality

0:07:32 Thomas: No, this was about, this was about just sheerly not being able to listen to this fucking person. Okay. We're doing this TikTok. I'm glad we're doing it. Great topic or something. I don't know. We'll see. But I was like, like, oh, let me check this out to see. And I can't, when I watch TikToks like this, which is never, I'm like, I're not part of this society. Whatever, whatever society this is, like am I on a different planet or they are? Cause I just am so far away. Is this just me? Like I see that. Well, okay. We'll play. Why don't we play it?

0:08:00 Tom: Yeah let's play it yeah

0:08:00 Thomas: Should I hit play? This is a good point. I'm sorry. I don't want to have to do it, but I will hold on. Let me, let Me also, it's the worst interface possible. So you can't get the beginning of the video.

0:08:00 Eli: You didn't explain. They don't know what the TikTok.

0:08:09 Clip: Who hates all men

0:08:11 Thomas: Got to try again. Here we go. Can I I unmute it what

0:08:14 Clip: You're a guy who can find a girl Who hates You're set You are literally set for life Because these girls Everybody's like, all these guys are like like, oh, I hate these girls who hate all men. No, no, no. You're playing it wrong. That's the thing. All these girls, who hate on men, they're going to find one man that they love, that they want to take care of, that they cherish, that want to be super kind to, super sweet, everything like that. But the thing is, all the other guys are like, no I don't want to give you the time of day. A guy walks up to her, she's like, nope. Boom! Right to the face. K.O. first round five five seconds it drops from there but that's the thing is she will turn around and look at you and be like oh my gosh sweetie I love you so much I'm so happy you're here and give you a bunch of

0:08:33 Thomas: Is what is that I'm gonna leave while this goes this is not real

0:08:57 Tom: Yeah what

0:09:07 Thomas: This is nothing

0:09:09 Clip: Kisses yes yes I want that immediately give it to me now please

0:09:15 Thomas: I want to die from having watched that I

0:09:18 Eli: I call this TikTok, uh -oh, my kink is an open preference. Here's the thing. If you want a girl to step on your nuts in the privacy of your own bedroom, I don't believe you should be allowed to vote like the little spoon men out there, but it's perfectly fine. It's legal, right? You can do it.

0:09:22 Thomas: Can't jeez

0:09:37 Eli: The problem is we've just all pointed cameras at our fucking faces like the insane zombies without grass that we are. And so whenever anyone's fucking half limp dick twitches, they go, I got to tell the world about it. The idea of women who hate all men is such an online concept, right? This is someone who literally looked at a Facebook post of someone talking about other people talking about saying that men are trash. And they were like well that's a real kind of woman and yum yum yum mommy I love it like could

0:09:37 Thomas: Yeah mm

0:10:11 Eli: There be a better example of how the internet has turned us all into babbling idiots then I am reacting with my kink to a version of women that I heard about on the internet oh

0:10:12 Tom: Mean

0:10:22 Thomas: I don't I have a different take I don'T think this I wish I wish your take were right I wish this were about this guy's king I think this is a like toxic male like they won't give any other man attention so it's like Like he likes that part of it, not the like, cause he's saying that the woman will be nice to him. I think it's about like, find you a woman that doesn't even look at other men. I think that's just one of those stupid things. Isn't it? Yeah.

0:10:43 Tom: Yeah oh okay then that's funny because let's let's go three bears because I took this on its face I actually know a fair number of women that are like yeah I don't really like or trust men. I know a fair number of women that are like, for the most part, I'm not real interested in having male friendships. I've been burned too many times by that. Hayley's a great example. She is not somebody that like is, yeah, she's not a fan of men in general.

0:11:06 Thomas: She's not a fan of two thirds of this podcast. I think just to take a sample size.

0:11:11 Tom: Yeah. I think in terms of like having like friends or casual relationships, sure. But like when she and I first met, she was not real interested in necessarily having a long -term relationship. That's for sure. The nanny that worked for us for a long time not a fan of men a lot of her friends not a fan of Men in general I think this also speaks to the sort of like broader opting out culture that a lot like hetero fatalism which is a trending sort of concept among specifically younger women who are looking out into the dating world and saying yeah I'm actually gonna opt out of that because dudes right now are pretty awful I don't think that this speaks to nothing so

0:11:47 Thomas: Well, I love that. Do you think this guy is talking about that though? I don't think this guys talking about it, but I agree with everything you said about

0:11:55 Tom: I guess what what struck me as interesting is that I think that like Like if I were to take the most charitable reading of this, I kind of agree with it. The most charitable rating would be, be the exception. If you are wildly the exception to the norm, then those women who have sworn off men, some number of those women will see that exceptionalism in you, right? So the problem is like most dudes are very much of a type. I really feel like that's the case. I don't know what the fuck it is with dudes, but like most dude's are just of a type. You meet a guy and you're like fucking I've met a hundred people that rhyme with you like I fucking know exactly what you're all about the differences between you and the other you and the other fucking you that I just met they're so minor they don't even matter you know what I mean it's like a fucking taylor swift song they all kind of sound the same and you either like it or you don't it's the same thing with so many dudes that at least I've Met in my life where I'm like yeah you fucking rhyme with that other kind of guy like you're just the category of person and yeah

0:12:49 Thomas: Especially the younger you are I do feel that where it's like if you're talking to a girl who's like super into the other 23 year old dudes around then it's like oh maybe you're dumb or something I don't know because they

0:13:04 Tom: Do you know what I mean though it's like it's like you can pretty quickly meet somebody and it's not entirely untrue of women too like it is true of just people in general like it you can find people and be like oh I know what slot to put you in you just fucking pick them up and put them in the slot and like generally speaking yeah you'll fit mostly so like I think if you meet women who are like I'm fucking done with dudes but you manage to sort of woo a woman who's done with dudes that's a win for you man that's just

0:13:12 Eli: It's true of everybody yeah it's so tricky too because it's like I think you can agree with the meme while understanding that the practicality of that is unhealthy and that like it's never clear when we're having that conversation what percentage is meme versus what percentage is like an unhealthy dismissal of half of human beings because like the meme men are trash all for it girl queen like yas girl slay men are cash throw them in there but then you'll have a conversation with someone who says that and like you're what you're communicating is like a shared communal pain and the problems of patriarchy and just how awful like anti -feminism and misogyny has become in this country like you think you're speaking the shared language and then someone's like like no actually I hate all men and you have to do this weird fucking pivot in the conversation because a person's just been like I'm in psychosis and you Have to be like oh no I thought we were doing fun internet speak you You don't, you don't do that, do you? And here's what makes it even harder. When someone takes that right turn, 99 % of the time, they're fucking lying.

0:14:39 Eli: They're just so committed to the meme that they won't like break the bit. So you were having fun, right? You were like, yes, girl boss, throw them in the trash, light them on fire, swag. I hate being bisexual because it means I'm attracted to 50 % trash, toot toot. And like, again, I fucking love that shit. All fun in the sun and then you'll be like and someone will be like no I'm serious and then you've got to be like you're ruining it stop ruining it right

0:14:39 Thomas: -hmm yeah

0:15:11 Eli: You know what it reminds me of you know it reminds you remember when charlie kirk got shot in the neck and we were all like yeah he got shot in the neck in the middle of giving a bullshit right -wing answer about gun gun violence right and then someone was like hey everybody say how you really feel about political violence right now be very serious and talk about how you feel about murdering other people and it's like you piece of shit you stand up in the middle of movies and be like don't worry everybody this horror movie's not real it's just images projected on a screen because they want everybody to fucking fucking get in line and bow. I think violence is wrong.

0:15:15 Thomas: Oh yeah that was

0:15:16 Tom: A wait he

0:15:23 Thomas: Great transphobic stupid shit yeah Yeah. Yeah.

0:15:53 Eli: The thing we all learned in fucking third grade, it's the opposite of that. Right. And look, we've had that with the Charlie Kirk conversation too, which is that we, someone would stand up and they'd be like, everyone's saying violence is bad. And we'd be Like, violence is Bad. And then one grassless piece of shit would be like Hey everybody. It's me, the anarchist. I've never read a book with that word in it. And I'm here to tell you that I actually think violence is great and I really, really mean it. And then fucking Judgy McJudgerson up at the front who's making us do our little dance about how bad violence is, is like, you see, you're all him. And it's like, I don't fucking know that dude. I've never met that dude, I think that dude's probably fake.

0:15:59 Thomas: It's so dumb.

0:16:40 Eli: I think he's a Russian spy making himself up. That's what I hate about this conversation is like even the conversation about like women who hate men you have to be like I mean are we talking about the people who are in mean speak who are having a good time and talking aboutthe problems of you know misogyny in this country or are wetalking about the absolute drooling lunatics who are like no actually 50 percent of genes result in evil like the slytherins being popped out at fucking hogwarts and you You got to be like, OK, well, you should go to an emergency room for medical care. And this dude is reacting to that culture with dating tips.

0:17:22 Thomas: We should have this discussion because it's more interesting, but I firmly believe this guy means this in the sense of, he might as well be saying find you a woman who won't talk to other men, who won'T have men as friends. That's how he means it, because it'S like

0:17:23 Tom: Did yeah see I didn't even pick that I

0:17:37 Eli: I didn't get it either.

0:17:37 Tom: Genuinely am so stupid I didn' didn't even pick up on that I look Thomas

0:17:37 Thomas: Look at him! Look at his stupid fucking face!

0:17:41 Eli: You can't make me.

0:17:41 Thomas: You don't think that's what he means? Means it's absolutely what he means what yeah for

0:17:43 Eli: I'm the president.

0:17:45 Tom: Smith it's so funny because like not only did I not pick up that which I did not and I also think yeah you're probably right you know so like I'll grant both of those things but it's still funny too because that then throws a wrench in my sort of like very charitable like hey like be the exception be you know like if you are the exception to the rule and you're not this of a type piece of shit that like is like women are like yeah I fucking choose the bear like yeah all right cool this is exactly the sort of like he's basically saying like yeah be the same kind of boring toxic insecure shitty

0:17:47 Eli: I'mthe president.

0:18:18 Tom: Version of everything that people are rejecting in mass and you're just like all right that actually defeats its own purpose that's Ouroboros shit man that's eating its own fucking tail yeah

0:18:26 Thomas: Yeah he just talks about like find he doesn't say be anything he just says find a woman who's not going to talk to other men is all he's saying that's all he

0:18:35 Tom: Jesus

0:18:36 Eli: So much more depressing than my version where he's just like, find a woman who will let you lick her feet. Yeah.

0:18:37 Thomas: Said yeah yeah that's nowhere in the text I don't know that's just you you're just you're bringing that whole cloth because he's like oh she's so nice to me she's amazing to me she hates all the other men

0:18:48 Tom: Christ that's that's yeah

0:18:59 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:19:00 Thomas: But we could have the more interesting conversation but I just want to say to your point earlier tom like the worst of the internet is this obviously it's a boring point we make over and over but it occurred to me that like historically we've always had the problem and I don't know that's always I'm not saying it's always a problem in every case but there's the problem of like well there are people who are famous because they look good and then sometimes they have opinions that are really stupid you know like that's just a problem we have where it's like why are we listening to this person they look amazing but that's it but people give them this like unearned sense of genius because of how they look and I realized with tiktok that's now just times infinity it was one thing when it was like some celebrities and you get like a jane fonda you'd be like actually you know she's good looking and she's making great point you know whatever now it's just like any fucking doofus who can look amazing has nice hair and like can have some amount of like charisma and how they talk can just have a channel with hundreds of thousands whatever and they say the dumbest fucking bullshit ever and people I guess listen to it because of how they look but it's everywhere it's so many people now

0:20:07 Eli: I mean, like, I don't want to use myself as the example. Right. But I think sometimes it's because I'm so good looking.

0:20:10 Thomas: Yeah you're like this he's so good looking and that's the only reason anyone listens to

0:20:14 Eli: That's true but I think sometime about the fact of how much more influential andrew tate is than thomas smith and what a better world it would be if those numbers were reversed like thomas is so thoughtful and so empathetic and genuinely wants to know what's true and genuinely want to challenge his beliefs and I mean a 100th of a fraction of boxer man punch rapist there is no number that That shows how improperly those two audiences.

0:20:42 Thomas: Yeah it's not even on the same they can't do the math of how much bigger the audience is, yeah,

0:20:48 Eli: But I also wonder, like, is it possible that you can't have a certain size audience without being a giant piece of shit at this point in history?

0:20:55 Thomas: I think that's true. I think that's truth.

0:20:57 Eli: I certainly don't know anybody who has a tremendous audience who doesn't at least make room for massive pieces of shit in their audience. Or they're part of legacy media so it's not their fault that massive pieces of shit are part of their audience like I think there are probably some like opinion columnists for the new york times who are genuinely leftist don't take any time to like open up to the right but the only reason they're allowed to do that is because they're a part of this like large institutional media machine that is allowed to ignore what the right are doing in their content 10

0:21:35 Tom: So much of this material what it does is it points at men's insecurities and says you're right to feel insecure about this it's not your fault that you are insecure about the issue it is an earned insecurity based on the behavior of other people That is the first thing that all of these spaces do first, right? The Tate spaces, the Manosphere spaces, they all firmly establish that as the groundwork first. What we have walked away from, because of the proliferation of this kind of content, I think, what we have walk away from is the idea that we all understood before, which is if I'm insecure about something, that's something I should work on. What these guys have done is they've flipped the script. They've said you're insecure about this because the world is the way you suspect that it is yeah

0:21:54 Thomas: No, it's the children who are wrong. Yeah, exactly.

0:22:27 Tom: Right so it's the it's so as soon as I tell you that back to yourself now you don't have any work to do right which is always what people want to hear I don't want to here like tom you are a fundamentally flawed version of yourself that will take you the rest of your life to try to get to a point of normalcy like that's hard

0:22:43 Thomas: Well, we're going to keep saying it before every recording. Yeah yeah.

0:22:45 Eli: That's why he doesn't respond to those emails yeah it's

0:22:46 Tom: Those text messages are getting old every morning feels

0:22:49 Eli: Well I want to wake you up some way besides shocking you

0:22:52 Tom: I use earbuds now. But I do think it's interesting for young people, for men specifically or teenage boys specifically, because I think that there is something to be said about boys now going out or young men or men in general going out and trying to date in a space where there is a high level of very earned distrust of men in in general. And I think that that is something worth saying like, hey, that would be hard to do. I think it's okay to say like, yeah, a bunch of dudes fucking ruined it. And women have all kind of found a way to get together and say, hey that sucks. This is unsafe and unpleasant. And a lot of us are opting out of it and that sucks and if you're a dude who isn't a piece of shit or who is growing up and trying not to be a piece or doesn't even know what being a piece yet means you're moving into a dating space now that I think has an earned hostility.

0:22:53 Eli: Man

0:23:47 Tom: And I do think that that's something that is worth talking about. And if I were a young person or even not a young person going out into the dating world, I'd be like, yeah, there's a lot of earned distrust of me categorically. And demonstrate not who I am first, but that it's safe to find out who I I am. And I think that that's something that I had not had to consider back in the nineties when I was young.

0:24:17 Tom: It just wasn't a part of my, my early experience. And now I do, I have a lot of sympathy for people who are like, I got to convince people first that I'm safe before convincing them that I am a person they would want to spend time with as an individual.

0:24:29 Eli: And think about how much easier it is to victimize young men who are witnessing that conversation right because all you need is the guy at the front of the charlie kirk room to go you see that young boys women all think you're trash they're a bunch of stacy's and they hate men, so you might as well hate them back. And the fucking crazy people at the back of the room are like, it's true, we do hate men.

0:24:56 Eli: And so these young boys are just like, all right, thanks for radicalizing me, everybody who's lying all the time forever.

0:25:03 Thomas: Well and even if they weren't like you said that's the one person that does and then the internet blasts that and there's that there's really nothing to be done about this like it's just our slow inevitable decline well faster because it's nut picking

0:25:14 Tom: Yeah slow. Isn't the right word.

0:25:16 Eli: What, you just stop using the internet to get your...

0:25:18 Thomas: Yeah we should ban the internet like I I'm I really think

0:25:22 Eli: The internet is a failed experiment.

0:25:22 Thomas: Can we do project 2028

0:25:22 Tom: Yeah Oh wait, what's that? We're all friends now. We're

0:25:27 Eli: Tom,

0:25:28 Thomas: We should or or what's my law I think we're all friends now okay yeah I thought that we were but okay yeah sure yeah uh I think my thing is you should there should be no anonymous internet No, it was my thing. In order to say anything on the internet, you shouldn't have to be anonymous. Hey, oh, I live in the south where I need to be able to consume content. Yes. Okay. But you can't say anything unless you're identified. That's my new regime. That is what it is. It won't happen. There are problems with it. But hey, there are also some problems with the current situation.

0:25:29 Eli: We were already friends. Wow, hurtful. Yeah, yeah.

0:25:58 Eli: Yeah. Whenever anyone defends the anonymous Internet with those edge cases where they're like, well, actually, this allowed me to do this thing. I'm like, yeah, but like system wise, do you think it worked out? Chill.

0:26:06 Thomas: Yeah exactly yeah yeah people take for granted like whatever the current downsides are they price that in and then they look at the marginal different downsides and they're like can't have that

0:26:19 Eli: Can't have that. Don't want that. I just want Donald Trump to be president and for the press secretary to tell someone from the Huffington Post that your mom is the reason why we moved to the presidential thing.

0:26:23 Thomas: Wait

0:26:32 Eli: Fuck, it's great. Oh, you sure fucking did, baby. Maybe. Yep. In a post on Monday, Levitt confirmed the exchange with HuffPost SV Date, who noted in an email question to Levitt and White House Communications Director Stephen Chung that Budapest was a controversial choice because Russia signed the 1994 BudapEST memorandum there. Is the president aware of the significance of BudapEst, Date asked? Does he not see why Ukraine might object to that site? Who suggested Budapест? Levitt replied to the BudapEST question, your mom did later followed up by calling date a far left

0:26:31 Tom: Well wait describe that for

0:26:32 Thomas: Did that happen yeah

0:27:09 Tom: Listeners

0:27:09 Eli: Hack that nobody takes seriously but

0:27:11 Tom: Holy shit yeah this is what happens when internet trolling becomes systematized and institutionalized I know it's not the conversation we're trying to have but like this is is what happens like

0:27:20 Thomas: Whoops oh we did it again guys guys.

0:27:21 Eli: It's every conversation that has to be

0:27:23 Tom: I know I know but thomas I want to respond to to the idea like that you had raised that I completely missed that like what this is is like some dude saying find a woman who won't talk to other guys right because embedded in that let's assume that embedded in that is an insecurity around adultery right I think that that is oftentimes like what's embedded in that and I think like you guys that you're like yeah it's fucking that's nothing right because like you guy's are not you know monogamous you don't value monogamy as a as something that would would worry you or not worry him. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that.

0:27:49 Eli: I value it for you tom because I don't want hayley to kill herself and your children

0:27:53 Thomas: I know. No, even hold on. Hold on. Even in a monogamous relationship, I think people should be mentally men should be mentally healthy. People should be mentally healthy enough to not freak out if their partner talks to someone of the of their gender.

0:28:06 Tom: Absolutely. A thousand percent. And I've thought, you know, as somebody...

0:28:09 Eli: Yeah forced polyamory that's what I just heard and I'm in agreement on

0:28:13 Tom: The message that doesn't get out to people that I think needs to get out to people, if you are monogamous and you have an insecurity around adultery, which many people do, and I think media really exploits very often, right? It exploits and enhances, is the thing that will insulate you from the threat of adultery is you and your own actions. It's not a guarantee because nothing's a guarantee that's just not how life works but like so many people try to control their partner in order to insulate themselves from the heartbreak of adultery like I have a negative five thousand percent worry that hayley is going to emotionally or sexually cheat on me right and that's because of me it's because my activity and my actions in the way that I behave and the way that I treat her, right?

0:28:43 Thomas: He's a literal sex god everybody.

0:28:56 Tom: So, I don't get a lot of complaints if you know what I mean.

0:28:57 Eli: It that's right prove

0:29:02 Thomas: I wasn't even really joking I was like it's kind of yeah yeah let's see it right

0:29:06 Eli: It have sex with thomas right now you coward

0:29:09 Tom: So, bring it on.

0:29:10 Thomas: Now finally finally the whole show has led to

0:29:13 Eli: Comes back home from QED. Hurley, you know how when someone calls you chicken, you like gotta do it, right? Like, you can't just let someone, if I were to name a top portrayal, it would be allowing someone to call you chicken.

0:29:26 Thomas: This that's how they got michael j fox to fuck that dude and back to the future yeah called him a chicken and then he yeah that was oh you don't like back to future that's from when your time It's so good. I love those movies.

0:29:31 Tom: What? Yeah, yeah.

0:29:33 Eli: No, I remember that. Yeah. In my head, one of the Back to the Future movies, Thomas watches is just a porn parody and no one ever broke it to him.

0:29:43 Thomas: Yeah. What's the matter?

0:29:46 Eli: He thinks there are four.

0:29:46 Thomas: Chicken? No, I could fuck all those guys. That's how they got him. That'S how he got in the car accident. Come on. You don't know the lore.

0:29:55 Tom: That's oh my god it's all part and parcel of the same sales pitch that these manosphere guys are making right which is like don't work on yourself don't find ways to be better don't remove your own insecurities instead everything's externalized and if I externalize everything I don't have to do any hard work the only thing I gotta do is pay you fucking 29 .99 a month or whatever for your dickhead university

0:30:04 Thomas: Right. Good point. Right, and conveniently externalized to the woman. It's not like, hey, other dudes don't cheat with someone. It'S almost like they're cool with the other end of that and then actually that's true of the tate guy he will cheat with someone else for like what do you call that he will what the fuck is the term for that he will induce cheating from women I get no like from women who are in a relationship or whatever he'll be on the other hand of that but if a woman were to do that with him then they're like a whore and it's horrible like it's all all the burden is on women is all I'm saying the point I'm making like no burden is unlike either the man or the other men it's It's all find the woman who does the thing already without you making any effort or change to yourself.

0:30:35 Tom: Fuck oh yeah yeah

0:30:57 Eli: I would argue that it's not just to men. I would argue there's every version of that. It's men, it's women, because there's also a huge space to be gained by doing the no, men really are trash bit. You can make a really good living by just being like, no, all the things that everyone else is saying ironically are true. I'll give you a really good example of this. I'm not on social media because I'm a mentally ill little child who couldn't handle twitter in 2015 but I was talking to a buddy the other day and she was like dude I'm so depressed about the reactions to the no kings protest and I was like oh a bunch of like trumpers are being super shitty about it and she was like well no no no I just assumed that but like she had a bunch of people on her feed who were like protests do nothing and I Was just like jesus and like again it's that weird lying not lying

0:31:45 Thomas: That's unreal. Yep. It's the best.

0:31:48 Eli: Thing where it's just like that nihilism is just so pointless and so useless and just eliminates all conversation down to like because I remember this so often it still happens to me occasionally today which is I'll try to help someone understand I'll be like let me use a metaphor and the person because they don't want me to win the conversation I was trying to have with them goes I don't understand your metaphor and I'm like oh okay well now you're pretending to be stupid to win a conversation I didn't think had a winner so

0:32:20 Thomas: You pick the best example of that exact thing you're talking about, though. And it's so great with these ones. No king's protest. They don't have any demands. That's whatever. This is just liberalism at its finest. It's like, yeah, as opposed to the social media posts you're doing, which is actually is winning the revolution.

0:32:35 Eli: As opposed to your fucking facebook post melania

0:32:38 Thomas: Yeah, that's definitely the Facebook post. Look, the going out and demonstrating million strong biggest demonstration we've ever seen. That's not doing anything. But your Facebook post complaining about them. That is the change we need to see in the world. You know, that'S actually.

0:32:54 Eli: Get in here there's a person who describes themselves as an anarchist on facebook who says that they're ready to burn the whole thing down we gotta stop this right we gotta cut fascism off at the source

0:33:00 Thomas: We need to do the revolution they're not fucking doing and never are going to do. That's the better way to do it.

0:33:09 Tom: I'm gonna go on facebook and call out all the protesters for wanting attention while I do this on facebook like it's like what are you fucking here for

0:33:13 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, but what's really going to get it done is being more pure than other people. That is what will do it, yeah.

0:33:26 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:33:28 Eli: Now can I give a caveat to this which is that we are people who make our living online and I know that there are people listening to this who have normal facebooks with normal friends and family who don't experience this. And can I tell you guys a secret? I now experience this because I have a secret Facebook where I just am with my family. It's literally like just my family, a couple of people who are like related to me or closer. And it's great. It's great. Can I tell you who the most dramatic person on my real friends and family Facebook is? It's Thomas Smith.

0:34:03 Eli: But that's just, I just friended real Thomas and Thomas talks about politics and stuff on his thing yeah

0:34:01 Thomas: You. Oh, oh, because that is my podcast account. Yeah yeah, because I was going to say like, oh Eli, I actually do have a family Facebook, but it is so boring, I have not logged in since 2017.

0:34:10 Eli: Because that's your but yeah that's your life and your damn it I want to get in the skim it but yeah yeah

0:34:19 Thomas: I've not I'm not on it is I have a real facebook from when I was in college you know like when it started thefacebook.com or whatever from 2006 uh yes it's so boring yeah

0:34:27 Eli: And it fucking rule dude my family facebook is so boring and so unpolitical or it's like political in a in that touch grass way that you're like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah no I I did this whole weird fanta I was surrounded by enemies of my own imagining Right.

0:34:42 Thomas: No that's true yeah yeah so true

0:34:47 Eli: It's just my aunt and her girls at a no Kings protest with signs that say like hands off. And I'm like, they're great. They're fucking great. And in my head, I'm like, yeah, but I saw on a promoted Facebook page that said a thing that I slightly disagree with within leftism.

0:34:47 Tom: Yeah well yeah

0:34:59 Thomas: Yeah well let's just make this our airing of grievances episode but did you happen to witness any of the hate we got from our own listeners about interviewing Jake Tapper this is a funny it is so

0:35:11 Eli: No, I'm not on any of that space anymore.

0:35:11 Tom: Yeah no what

0:35:13 Thomas: Funny any patrons you know sorry anyone listening who if that's you it's so fucking dumb I'm sorry I don't care you can I'll I'll reimburse the dudes for when you quit our patreon I don't care it's so funny with literally people being like

0:35:25 Eli: Everybody write in and say you gave us a lot of money Jake

0:35:28 Thomas: Yeah it was like I can't believe you platformed that it's like yeah we platformed Jake Tapper you wouldn't have been able to see Jake fucking Tapper anywhere if we hadn't given him the platform that that we gave him. Who is it actually? I didn't know who it was until we put him on our show. Yeah.

0:35:36 Eli: Tapper that's true Jacob Tapper

0:35:44 Tom: Yeah you platformed jake Tapper that's the you platform Jake Tapper

0:35:49 Thomas: Someone said, someone said, oh, and you're, you're normalizing his both sides approach. Normalizing Jake Tapper's is normal. That's like the, the normal of the world is embodied in Jake Tapper.

0:36:00 Eli: Feel like cnn gets dibs for normalizing jake

0:36:04 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But it's like to any extent that that's being normalized, it's not us, the one people who actually tried to challenge him on a few things on an obscure year podcast that no one listens to it's see it fucking nn the show he's on every single day but it's so funny because it's exactly what you're talking about eli where it's like if this were a friends and family one or something or if you were dealing with the regular people of the earth they'd be like oh jake tapper yeah I sometimes see him on cnn yeah they

0:36:32 Tom: Insane yeah

0:36:31 Eli: That's so cool you got into the thing oh it's

0:36:35 Thomas: Would just think of him as like a news guy that's it but like they have all this lore of like oh I can't believe that And then they they work themselves into this thing where Jake Tapper's actually Hitler. And you're like, look, I don't like what he's doing, but like you got to fucking chill a little. Like, look at the earth slightly differently than just the super online thing you're in.

0:36:53 Tom: Yeah I think that's exactly the part of the problem and like I've walked away entirely from all social media maybe three four weeks ago I'm just done with all of it but like I think I recognize too yeah I just think I fucking I'm

0:37:07 Thomas: I'm the only one on social. Hey, friend me, everybody. Buddy. Yeah.

0:37:09 Eli: Great I'm lonely on here it's just people yelling at me for interviewing jake

0:37:14 Tom: But I've come to the conclusion that I don't think that there is a way to use it responsibly anymore I think that the online space is a space that has become full of so much absolutism bullshit where everybody speaks speaks with incredible confidence about nothing that they are not they have no expertise

0:37:31 Thomas: I'm so sorry, Tom. You're literally doing Sith deal in absolutes.

0:37:35 Eli: Tapper only the

0:37:35 Tom: To everybody becomes a fucking sith online man

0:37:36 Thomas: You know, literally doing that bit because Tom's like, it's become too absolute. We need to burn the whole thing to the ground because absolutely no one can use it correctly.

0:37:41 Eli: Sith, Tom

0:37:41 Tom: Yeah well I part of the reason I left it is because I think they

0:37:47 Eli: Would have turned into darth vader so easily

0:37:49 Tom: Oh are you kidding me fucking right now

0:37:51 Eli: He wouldn't have even had to choke hailey to death they would have been like you get a cool helmet and he would have been like

0:37:55 Tom: Hayley would turn into the emperor before

0:37:57 Thomas: For that's a good point yeah

0:37:57 Eli: I'm in yeah she

0:37:57 Tom: I turn into darth so yeah so I'd be I'd been following her down the train but like she does I left social media because meta keeps doing pedophilia shit so it's just like it's a little little too much for me at this point, but

0:38:01 Eli: Does have lightning powers

0:38:08 Thomas: Well in their defense tom like you can't I mean what are they supposed to

0:38:13 Eli: What are they supposed come on

0:38:13 Thomas: Do not pedophilia like what now you sound like do you hear yourself tom do you hear yourself oh just don't do pedophilia yeah fucking no one can please

0:38:13 Tom: Like not do that. I just not do that. I just keep doing it. You know, I know it's crazy.

0:38:21 Eli: Perfection is enemy of the good tom sure this company has been part of child trafficking across the world but maybe their next project will have less child trafficking if they're brave enough to try and they can't be brave enough with critics like you hurting them

0:38:32 Tom: Yeah, there you go. There you go let me go ahead and log into the Catholic Church while I'm at it. Yeah. Yeah I know what fucking I know means fucking nothing. I know it means nothing but I can't be there. It's like I can go to fucking Catholic Mass either. I can do it. I just like there's no way for me to do it yeah yeah

0:38:43 Eli: No it doesn't tom no tom it doesn'T mean nothing

0:38:44 Thomas: You no no no I appreciate it from you I'm annoyed by the fact that I don't get to talk to you on Facebook Messenger anymore but I'm like yeah no it's a principled stand that's cool I like that you have principles

0:38:55 Tom: I just I'll never go there

0:38:55 Eli: But tom it's actually incredibly important because you're no longer participating in facebook messenger means that no illusions had to join slack which means that I now get to use Slack for my workplace. So if you think about it, you've helped the most important person in the world do their work in a way, yeah, me, in the way that they want to do it a little bit more.

0:39:05 Thomas: Eli

0:39:19 Tom: Again okay that's fair that's fair

0:39:19 Eli: So you're like the little boy with his finger in it, but you let it out of the dam. I don't know quite where you fit in the dam metaphor.

0:39:24 Tom: Yeah I don't not sure either I just I think the jake tapper response the same thing too though of this original tiktok that we put out like it's not even a drift anymore it's something else there is there is a sort of necessity of viralism that requires that people speak as if they are fucking experts They have a right to an opinion on something that their opinion is is important and should be known by an audience.

0:39:48 Thomas: It's Darwinian. Those are the opinions you're going to see because you're gonna see only the most brazen, most narcissistic, most sure of themselves. That's who you will see because it's a Darwinian process.

0:40:00 Tom: But then everybody is like, oh, I've got something to say about this without ever first sort of stopping and being like, is it important, actually, that I say this to these people? Yeah. And also, like, who are these people I'm talking to? Why do I care to say this? Why am I commenting on this fucking New York Times article? What does that do? It does nothing. There is going to be another article out tomorrow. This threat is nothing. It's not going anywhere. It won't exist. You haven't convinced it. All of that is just nothingness. But the important part of the nothingness is that drifts toward this kind of absolutism, where now we talk about what men do and what women do in these broad categorical terms that men and women are starting to believe about themselves.

0:40:05 Thomas: Yeah. Should someone listen to me? Yeah. Yeah, mm -hmm, yeah,

0:40:39 Tom: And that, like, to come back full circle, that's the problem. Women are starting to believe categorically these things, and men are starting to believe, categorically, these things. And we're starting to categorically believe these things about one another. And all of that reductionism, it's incredible to me that the expansion of human connection has resulted in this intensely reductionist worldview that has now become comes sort of like the viral necessity because it's what sells it's zodiac shit right it's like hey here's a broad categorical thing that will feel and strike others as a set of sort of deepity based truisms and that shit plays it's not good for us like it's objectively really fucking bad for us and it's bad for the how we the way we treat one another because we don't see each other anymore as individual

0:41:31 Eli: And it's not how anybody talks. And can I say, and I'll give you the best example. The best example of this is me. So I'm teaching this year which means I have colleagues in the film and tv department and they're much older than me I think my youngest colleague is probably in their late 40s early 50s and so I will constantly in conversation bring up an internet enemy and they'll be like haven't heard of that one and I have to be like okay so in 2015 I was tweeting and they're just like Like, anyways, I got to go home to my family who we just talked to each other fully. And I was like,

0:41:31 Tom: Humans no yeah yeah

0:42:04 Thomas: Yep. But it's even worse than that, though, because the only people who are in it are literally are fucking world leaders and politicians and journalists. So that's where our politics is derived from. Is this online nothing? And then normal people are how you describe you talk to them and they're like, even people who were like liberal out here they're not like super fucking woke and I don't mean this in the anti -woke sense I consider myself whatever that means I consider myself woke and wanting to but like we lose touch with how most people are except and I would say that we should all unplug except that it's our fucking politicians now it's all politics now they are in on it they are that atmosphere and they answer questions and they give statements and they gave everything based on that worldview based on that stupid fucking way too online worldview because all of journalism and all of politics exists in that sphere and it's ruined our fucking world and what was this episode about it's related the guy's part of that he sucks too in the same way yeah kind of right oh

0:43:04 Eli: It's his fault, right?

0:43:10 Clip: DEAR OLD DADS

0:43:16 Eli: All right, gentlemen, before we go, what does the salad say before he eats? Let us pray.

0:43:25 Thomas: I was thinking that was gonna be so much dirtier yeah

0:43:27 Tom: That's good you're breaking my fucking coco heart live on air

0:44:23 Eli: I hate being bisexual because it means I'm attracted to 50 % trash. Toot, toot.

0:44:30 Thomas: Whoops we did it again guys he's a literal sex god everybody