Lively v. Baldoni 39 - Hey Blake... [7 minutes of narcissistic man noises and vocal fry]

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavel in, everyone. It's chunk time. Well, no, it already has been chunk time, I guess. It's mid-chunk. I'm excited for this particular chunk. I am very excited.

0:00:30 Lydia: It's been chunky. Yeah. I'm also really nervous.

0:00:39 Thomas: Nervous? Wow, who gets nervous over chunks? It's the first time you've ever chunked.

0:00:42 Lydia: Yeah, I'm nervous about this one because we're going to knowingly expose ourselves to something really cringy. That's why I'm nervous. I do want to crawl and hide, but it's not because I'm embarrassed for him. It's because I don't want him talking to me like that. I feel like I'm receiving the voice memo. I don't like it.

0:00:53 Thomas: Oh, jeez.

0:01:04 Thomas: This is a whole thing. I don't know how to...

0:01:07 Lydia: Yeah I'll save it for the therapist.

0:01:08 Thomas: Well, let's save that for therapy. Yeah. But I don'T blame you. We paused at. If you've listened to this right in a row, I don't even need to reset it. But if you haven't, we've paused in Baldoni's amended massive Silmarillion. It's longer than the Silmarillion. At a time when there's some very important key messages going back and forth. And then he sent a voice memo.

0:01:21 Lydia: Oh, God. Yes.

0:01:31 Thomas: First things first, just to let you guys know, the timestamps are insane. So like we've been trying to figure out when this happens because it actually kind of makes makes a difference.

0:01:39 Lydia: And nobody's been able to figure it out.

0:01:40 Thomas: And while I think we did, I'm surprised no one did, because I think we have, with a little bit of help from ChatGPT, because I feel like it's really good at recognizing blurry whatever and also using logic. It was a little bit of a logic problem, like, you know, those old ones in school with the grids. That was fun because it was like this message can't have gone after this message and this message can't. So anyway, we've done a lot of detective work.

0:01:43 Lydia: I know. Yeah. Yeah, no, you're alone on that. And let me complain for a quick second.

0:02:07 Thomas: Please.

0:02:07 Lydia: You've already heard me complain about this, but we mentioned this footnote in the previous episode where they say some of the below text messages were extracted in European time zones and as a result do not reflect their true time of transmittal or receipt. Fair enough. But I didn't really get to focus in on this extracted language. This drives me crazy. These messages were not extracted. Extracted implies that you worked with a company that specializes in extraction. Right?

0:02:08 Thomas: I love complaints.

0:02:22 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. Or, or at least you downloaded something to do it.

0:02:35 Lydia: Some sort of technological process. These are screenshots. These aren't screenshots.

0:02:38 Thomas: Yeah. These are Polaroids of screenshots. They're not even, it's, they're so fucking bad.

0:02:44 Lydia: And I'm sure there's probably data behind the message that like, you know, a company is doing this the proper way. They would have been able to tell exactly when these messages were transmitted and received.

0:02:53 Thomas: Of course. Yeah, it was just part of the metadata. Yeah.

0:02:55 Lydia: And the only reason that we are dealing with this nonsense of, like, not knowing what time happened when, but, you know, I kind of like that we maybe are the only people that know, is because they decided to screenshot this from Justin Baldoni's phone when he was in Europe somewhere.

0:03:10 Thomas: Yeah。 Apparently. It's so crazy. But yeah, this voice memo got some reaction, shall we say. Some reaction both ways. We're going to add to that. We've gone slightly behind when they released the voice message, which was a little bit before this amended complaint, right? Right?

0:03:15 Lydia: Yeah, oh my god.

0:03:27 Lydia: Yes, yes, January 27th, which, interestingly, I was looking back through the docket sitting in that timeline order. This was the same day that Gottlieb, Michael Gottlieber, Blake Lively's counsel, filed a request for moving up the pretrial conference because of all the extrajudicial statements that Brian Friedman was making. And so the timing on that is really funny. They got this voice memo out right before Gottliebe started complaining about them litigating in the press.

0:03:47 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. So after this break, we're going to dive in. We're going to hear we're gonna hear a voice message. Yeah, it's something I haven't listened to in a while. I listened to it back back a while ago. I'm excited to revisit. So hey, support the show patreon.com slash gavel pod. There's so much so much.

0:04:01 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, God. Make it worth it for us, please.

0:04:15 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, because currently it's not, I'm not gonna, I'm just gonna level with you. It's not the level of Patreon support. Does not, weren't listening to this voice message, but we're gonna, we're, we're going to go out on a limb for you guys, we're, it's like on credit, you know. Please. Oh yeah, it's worse than the dance. Please, someone pledge just to make this worth it. Thank you all

0:04:18 Lydia: This is pushing it. Like this, yeah, yeah.

0:04:27 Lydia: I think it's gonna be worse than the dance footage. Yeah. And pay for my therapy. Thank you.

0:04:45 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:04:45 Thomas: Right, um, here we go. Do we, do we have to play on this? Do we?

0:04:48 Lydia: Yeah, unfortunately.

0:04:50 Thomas: Okay, so once again, just to set up the conversation, this was, right, so after the Khaleesi message, which I fully grant was cringe, oh, and I wanted to add one thing I forgot to kind kind of reemphasize, reiterate in the last part. I just think it's so funny that we get pages and pages. We get so many messages, so many from him, except the one that she complained about.

0:05:14 Thomas: The one message we didn't get after going through all of this. I mean, we also don't get a transcript of the voice message, but he released that publicly. So like I kind of count that. The one thing we don't have is the message where she felt Baldoni was dismissive of her contributions. And she felt that it was like, Hey, you just, yeah, you just praised my, you know, passion and not any, you didn't address the actual work I was doing. And I would love to have an opinion. I would love to be able to evaluate like, Oh, who's right or wrong in that. Except we can't because the guy who's exposing all of this stuff in this complaint and this ridiculous exhibit, a, that just has 168 pages though. Though, yeah, of varying legibility, the one thing he doesn't include is the message she was offended at, which strikes me as pretty frustrating,

0:04:50 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. -hmm Right, right. Non -specific Passion. Mm. -hm. Right.

0:05:50 Lydia: Illegible. Pages.

0:06:03 Lydia: Yeah.

0:06:04 Thomas: Like pretty intentional. Like, doesn't that seem pretty gaslighting to be like, well, anyway, and then, you know, uh, there was something I said, and then she was like complaining for nothing. Yeah. And it's the thing that made her send or the thing that led to her sending that admittedly super cringe worthy dragon thing, which I, that is, That's cringe. I don't like it, but it's within the realm of like, oh, that person's a little meh, you know, like that's kind of a self aggrandizing thing, but

0:06:08 Lydia: Yeah, and here's all the pictures of her complaining. Yeah, yeah, right.

0:06:30 Lydia: Right.

0:06:30 Thomas: We don't know what the hell came before that because he didn't tell us. And I just think it's so frustrating. And so there's where we are. We're at the end of her saying, if you ever get around to watching Game of Thrones, you'll appreciate that I'm Khaleesi and like her, I have dragons, blah, blah. So we really will all benefit from those gorgeous monsters of mine. You will too. I can promise you. And by the way, if someone's ever telling me, hey, you will benefit from Ryan Reynolds and Taylor Swift's insight. I'd be like, that's awesome. Cool. Yeah. Thanks for, I'll take all of their input that I could possibly get. Like it takes a bit of an egomaniac to be like no, I, Justin Baldoni, person who's been in a television show and like one movie, I know better than, anyway. But then time goes by and how much time? Well, we've had to do fucking detective work.

0:06:36 Lydia: Oh my God.

0:07:13 Thomas: We believe based on much investigative journalism of blurry fucking fucking screenshots that she sent her messages. Now she's in New York. So we're going to talk about her time and we're gonna talk about his time, his time he's in LA. So she sends that last dragon message 10 44 PM Eastern time, so far as we can tell, which makes sense. And then he responds two hours later, which would be past midnight her time, but his time we believe it to be, this is a little sketchy, but it's either this or one hour earlier than this.

0:07:17 Lydia: Yep. Yes.

0:07:45 Thomas: We we're pretty sure it's this though. He says, hi, wow, wow. Wow. Thank you for writing this. I have so much to say. I'm so sorry for the slow response. I gave a talk tonight. So we know obviously this is a nighttime message or at least evening. Gave a talk to night to a bunch of Baha 'i youth in the city and your message came through while I was there and haven't had a second to respond. Going to send you a voice note when I get out of the Uber. Hope this doesn't wake you.

0:07:46 Lydia: Right.

0:08:09 Thomas: So, we believe that was Pacific time, 9:47 PM, which seems pretty plausibly after, right, seems pretty pretty plausibly after an evening event. Like that seems more or less fine.

0:08:09 Lydia: 12 47 in the morning for her. Not, not being too late, because he says he, it was a Baha 'i youth.

0:08:23 Thomas: Baha 'i youth. Yeah, exactly. Seems right. And then he kind of dilly-dallied after that, which fair. I mean, he gets,

0:08:27 Lydia: Yeah, and, and also, to be fair, he, you know, is taking an Uber from, what we think, from the city, LA, somewhere in LA, to Ohai in the valley, and that's an hour and a half without. Right.

0:08:38 Thomas: Yeah, in the city. Oh yeah. Good point. So yeah. Combination of that, but still five hours later, which is fine. Maybe he gets home and he's at dinner with his wife, whatever. Five hours later, he ends up sending this voice message and the message he sends after it, he says, some morning thoughts in addition to my 2 a.m. semi-coherent ramble. So we know that that voice message has to be either, it's something 44. Now closer is 144 AM, but based on the blurry screenshot, it just doesn't seem like it could possibly be that. So we're going with 244 AM, which by the way, these are all in UTC. So, we've had to do some complicated like UTC conversion and based on an amalgamation of logic of like, we figured out it's UTC, et cetera, et zebra. We think this was 244 IM. It could have been 144 and that would set everything back one hour, but like, I think this is what it is, his time.

0:09:04 Lydia: Right.

0:09:27 Lydia: Now, and it's 2 .44 a .m. his time Pacific.

0:09:32 Thomas: Her time, that would be 5 .44 a .m. And that is the voice message we are going to... All right, this is, I'll be honest, this is all just stalling. Yeah, it doesn't even matter. And also the color of the... Yeah, let's talk about the font. God, all right. I'm going to hit play. Here we go. Here's the... Here's that voice message.

0:09:40 Lydia: You've been stalling. You have an entire spreadsheet of stalling, basically. Like, you went through so much work.

0:09:57 Clip: Hey Blake, it is 2 in the morning Hopefully this does not wake you up

0:10:04 Thomas: Sorry. Sorry, I should, I meant to mute.

0:10:08 Clip: Wow, there's so much I want to say to you. And I hope that we can FaceTime or see each other in person soon And get to talk more. But I'm just going to send you a few thoughts and hopefully it's not gonna be more than a few minutes, but that, uh, I don't have the best track record. I don' think either one of us have the best track record, uh, for our voice memos.

0:10:13 Thomas: Fucking God.

0:10:34 Thomas: Sorry, I got to clean up the barf real quick. Alrighty, so this is, we have to listen to seven minutes of this fucking shit. We've done 30 seconds. First impressions. Hey, no shade on sending, yeah, it is a long voicemail, but no, I don't mind the length if it was you and I. The point is, this is not you and I Yeah, yeah. Well, the biggest thing about this, first off, at least At least poor Blake, at least the voice memos have a feature that's play it faster than it was sent. Like, and this often happens when I'm getting voice messages and I'm like, all right, I'm going to wait because if you play them right in a row, then you can kind of keep up with the person sending them. But then if you, you know, if you pay it at two X speed, then it's like you catch up before they somehow time travel.

0:10:34 Lydia: Yeah. Have either of us ever sent a seven-minute voice memo to each other? Maybe a minute and a half. Yeah. Oh, I know, I know, but I'm saying even us, even us, a married couple, we're not doing that. Hmm.

0:11:23 Thomas: She would have been able to play this faster. If I started a voice message to celebrity Blake Lively at two fucking 45 in the morning, my time, and I went, hey, Blake, and said nothing for 30 seconds, I'd be like, well, that was the first try. Delete. Stop. Okay. Collect my thoughts.

0:11:41 Lydia: Yeah, I would delete it. Yeah, exactly. You don't have to keep going.

0:11:47 Thomas: Jesus fucking Christ.

0:11:47 Lydia: Also, like, he just gave a talk tonight, you know, it's late, his voice is probably pretty tired. Like, yeah, it can wait. It can wait. You can send a text message and be like, "Hey, it actually ended up being way later, let's connect in the morning."

0:11:52 Thomas: Wait till the morning. This reads to me as a dude who thinks

0:12:04 Lydia: Loves to hear himself talk.

0:12:06 Thomas: Well, who, I don't want to get too crazy, but this is someone who either thinks this person is into him or thinks everyone is into them. Those are the two options. Honestly, it's possible he's this all the time, and I actually kind of think that might be it, because that explains a lot of the other cluelessness that led to it being an unsafe work environment, because he just overshares and thinks everyone's in love with him. But I'm telling you, in order to send a voice message, I would never, I would rather die. Like, like to send a voice message like this, I don't even know what it would take. It would have to be someone I knew just fucking so into me. And I felt like, man, I was drunk. So I felt, so I had no ability to moderate my own behavior.

0:12:14 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, mm. Hmm. Yeah.

0:12:44 Lydia: Also, they work together, like that, it's

0:12:46 Thomas: Yeah, it's just it's like this thing where he's trying to ooze like this fucking charisma or something. He's trying ooze this like, yeah, yeah. It's he feels like he has her attention. He feels like she has no need to hurry. He has no knee to whatever. Whatever he's like savoring this time or not caring enough to go faster with someone you're working with. It's just weird.

0:12:54 Lydia: Like the, the dreamy bedtime eyes, like via voice almost. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Why?

0:13:11 Thomas: I know you're going to kill me. Now that I've said all that, I need to go back. Okay. We're going listen to that again.

0:13:15 Clip: Um, two in the morning, um, hopefully this does not wake you up, um, wow, there's so much I want to say to you, and I hope that we can, um, Um, uh, FaceTime or, or see each other in person, um, soon and get to talk more, but I'm just going to send you a few thoughts and hopefully it's not going to be more than a few minutes, but that, uh, I don't have the best track record. I don't think either one of us have the

0:13:24 Thomas: God, it's so painful. It is so painful I encourage you. Yeah. I encourage everyone to slow this to us down to one speed.

0:13:51 Lydia: Yeah, I can't believe we're listening to this on one speed. Experience it, yeah?

0:14:00 Thomas: So you're going to experience this pain with us because this is the most cringy fucking thing. I can't can't even, I already can't deal with it. And we have six more minutes to go, but like, I mean it like truly, this is not me trying to pick on him. If this was anything about anyone or any one or how it doesn't matter that it's Justin Baldoni in this controversy, I'd be like, that's disgusting. Just start. I'm not going to send a woman that I work with a message. Hey, with my mouth, like, you know, yeah. So yeah. Like trying to do all these like gravelly man sounds so that you, And it's just just gross.

0:14:34 Clip: Best track recorded, uh for our voice memos. Um, I want to start with an apology. Man, I...

0:14:37 Thomas: I hate it. I hate it so much. All right. Let's see what happens here.

0:14:08 Lydia: God. Yeah,

0:14:47 Clip: Reading the second part of your message, my heart sank, and uh, I'm really sorry. Um, I for sure fell short, and you worked really hard on that, and and the way you framed it, and and uh and how that made you feel, and I just want to say thank you for sharing that with me. That takes a lot of trust, trust and uh vulnerability, and I just, I feel really grateful that you uh feel safe enough to tell me that that's how you feel and share that with me, and I, I'm really sorry.

0:15:22 Lydia: Just feels so fake.

0:15:21 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. I do want to say I'm trying to be full fairness. I don't know our baseline fakeness level of every interaction between celebrities and actors and whatever. Like I with Blake, like because if this were yeah, if this Were me receiving this message, I would not. I would stop. I wouldn't even I would wait for a transcript. Yeah. Yeah. And furthermore, I don't I wouldn't really ever like talk to this person seriously again. It'd be like, OK, however I get through whatever this is.

0:15:30 Lydia: Yeah, it could always be fake, yeah! Yeah, you would have done like a thumbs up react and that would have been it.

0:15:57 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, I would have been like, hey, yeah, I appreciate the apology. But like, I know I'm weird. Yeah, I'm a little weird. She is wooey. You know, she admittedly wooey she's got you know, she's a celebrity. There's going to be some level of the fakeness, baseline fakenESS. And I fully just want to be full fairness. I don't know how far away from that this is per se, but I can't help but be like, all right, man, like it's been a minute and a half. Just be like I am so sorry. You're right. When you said that I only praise your passion, I didn't specifically look into the work. You're totally right. Sorry about that. It was just I was going fast. I was, you know, whatever the excuse was. I didn'T mean that as my only evaluation of it. I just happened to be, you Know, doing something at the time and I just I didn 'T say enough. That's all. Sorry about That. And the other thing is, like, it feels like he's, he's making a bigger deal about this than it even was. I

0:16:00 Lydia: Yeah, thanks, see you at work

0:16:46 Thomas: Guess, I don't know for sure.

0:16:46 Lydia: Yeah, it's like a martyr sort of response, um, in some ways.

0:16:49 Thomas: But yeah, yeah, it's like that overly, like, when you sit, feel like someone's going over the top to try to, like, bend over backwards to make you feel like, hey, I just was kind of expressing something, now you're making it feel like you're dealing with a kid or something, like you don't, it's just like

0:16:54 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, I'm the worst, blah blah blah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's emotionally immature, honestly. It's not a good

0:17:07 Thomas: Keeping in mind the first thing that is tension in this exchange that we see is when he does the parenthetical of, "And I didn't need Ryan. And, you know, I would have felt that way without Ryan and Taylor." And I'm not even saying that's like a big deal. I, it's not crazy for him to make that comment. Like maybe he felt a bit ambushed. Fine.

0:17:25 Thomas: But that's like the first, I guess my point is though, this wasn't her. She didn't say like, Hey, I am so upset, et cetera, etetera. Like that's the first thing that I think maybe triggered her to be like, all right, maybe I need to explain why I did that.

0:17:24 Lydia: Apology Yeah.

0:17:38 Thomas: And in explaining why she did that, she says, And I'm just trying to highlight the only things that are actually tension here at all, because we're trying to make the point that I feel like he's overshooting it. As for Taylor and Ryan and somebody for that matter, maybe that's Taylor. I don't know. I'm the luckiest motherfucker on the planet to have them as my dance moms. Yes. That said, they're also my most trusted partners and the people I go to first with anything creative I touch. And I am the person they go to you first, et cetera, et sera. When they loved and signed off on the pages, I felt good to send them to you. They asked what you thought specifically after they checked in so many times.

I told them that you laughed a bunch and said, it's probably a blend, but you appreciate my passion so much, which of course didn't feel great for me or them to have my passion be praised instead of any specific contribution, or even just that you didn't like the pages, which was fine also. So I think they wanted you and me to see how they felt about the work because they've been by my side for far too many experiences.

0:17:56 Lydia: Right. Yep.

0:18:32 Thomas: The rest is kind of like explaining them backing her up, but that's it in terms of like the tension. Like what she's expressed is she didn't, it didn't feel great to have my passion praised and not any specific contributions. Yeah. I don't want to put this all on him. Like, I don'T know how this relationship has gone. I DON'T know how much he feels like he's really needing to manage this. He doesn't want to screw it up with this actress that signed onto the film. So that's the context we're in, in terms of this voice message. And it does feel like way over action to me, but we can't fully know the context of their dynamic and their everything. So I don' t want to be too hard on him on that. What I am I'm hard on him about is the fucking vocal fry nighttime, two mile an hour pauses. Like I can't imagine, especially in a situation where I'm apologizing to someone

0:18:43 Lydia: Right. One sentence.

0:19:18 Thomas: Taking up that much of their fucking time with my bullshit, you know, like get to your point. Like it's just a weird thing to me. All right, let's keep going.

0:19:22 Lydia: Yeah, yeah.

0:19:27 Clip: I fucked up. That is a fail on my part. One thing you should know about me is I will admit and And apologize when I fail. I am far from perfect. I'm a very flawed man, as my wife will attest.

0:19:50 Clip: I'm gonna piss you off, probably. And find my way back to center. That is one thing I can assure you of. And I am sorry I made you feel that way. And I will for sure do better. And I should have given it more time. And damn right, you got great friends if that's how you felt and they knew that, and fuck, we should all have friends like that, aside from the fact that they're two The three of you guys together, it's unbelievable.

Talk about energy, just to force all three of vous. You, but I just wanted you to know that I didn't need that, because it's really good and it's going to make the movie sing like you said, and, and I'm excited to go through the whole movie with you. I'm just excited to spend time with you. I'm decided to, to be in your sphere and your presence and for us to share creative, um, juices together, although that sounds terrible, um, Um, you know, I, I think, and you and I have been trying to build a relationship, which I think we've done successfully. I mean, here we are, uh, talking like this, uh, me into my phone at two in the morning, but largely via text and voice note. And that, I will be honest with you, that is not my biggest strength. Um, I love being with people and being in

0:20:57 Lydia: It does.

0:21:22 Thomas: Oh God.

0:21:23 Lydia: I know, it just goes on and on and on. Hmm.

0:21:27 Thomas: As a woman, what does this sound like to you? I just am curious how this comes across to you. Cause I can tell you as a dude, like it feels This is someone who thinks Blake or everyone is in love with him. Does it come across that way to you or am I being sensitive about that?

0:21:31 Lydia: I would say not necessarily specifically Blake, but probably someone who is used to people being attracted to him. Yeah, yeah, I do think that has become probably part of his personality by this point in his life, maybe subconsciously, but I think there is, I don't think it is unfair for you to feel that way as he's speaking. I do think think that's what's going on to some extent.

0:21:49 Thomas: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Either or. Yeah.

0:22:05 Thomas: When I hear this tone of speaking and this and what he's doing, I feel like this would be like a man hitting on a woman at a bar kind of talk. Like, you know, a and you know it's just somebody who thinks they have the attention of the room. It's like, I don't, dude, I don't know. It really comes across that way to me, but maybe it's not as much to you. I don' t know.

0:22:26 Lydia: I think that interpretation is fair. He's talked about that in his TED talk, right? Like so many of his roles for a very long time were all about his looks. And so I think he's just probably used to being looked at and having women be attracted to him and et cetera, et cetera. And, and so like, I think that can influence how you approach conversations then later on in your life.

0:22:47 Thomas: I feel like it can get you into trouble going life through life like that.

0:22:48 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:22:54 Clip: In somebody's space and being face to face, and I feel like that's where I excel, and, um, definitely falling short at times in our text and voice note exchanges, because there's so much to communicate and there's so much happening, and, um, and all that to say, I'm just really looking, looking forward to spending time together, um, and I think that's going to really go a long way for our chemistry, which I believe is there, has been there from the start. So I was so damn excited when you want to do this film. I felt it in the room when we met, and, um, yeah, I think it does come from the both of us being so fucking hard working and having a vision and not, um, settling, and, um, I'm excited to have a creative partner in that with you, and it's just really, it's really exciting.

There's so much more to say. There's something I want to say, um, oh, and there's one thing that I do need to say, which is, um, I am so sorry you have been through what you've been through with these other filmmakers and producers or whoever the people were that you worked with. It just pissed me off, those fuckheads that I don't, I'm just still kind of blown away that this is the industry that we're in and that you've experienced that as a woman. And I know I don't need to say it, but that's not at all going to be

0:23:56 Lydia: Oh my God.

0:24:21 Lydia: And I'm going to do the same thing to you behind your back.

0:24:23 Thomas: Way worse.

0:24:24 Lydia: Yeah.

0:24:26 Clip: Or will be, hopefully. It's not been the experience with me. There's nothing more exciting to me, like, Like that I get to work with Blake Lively and have her, all of her. And so there's been no hesitancy with me sending you the final draft file. The only reason I didn't send it today was because I was trying to implement and add your notes into my working draft, which is already, like, I'm all over that draft right now. So there's a whole bunch of new stars that are going to be collated pages. And I just haven't had a chance to send it to you. And, um, and I'm sorry that that has happened to you before, and, uh, and I hope after this experience there will be a new, um, I don't know, I hope it'll be healing in some way, because that's all I want

0:25:13 Thomas: I just want, just time, time, just on the background, like, it's so much.

0:25:16 Lydia: It's Too much. It's just too much.

0:25:19 Thomas: I don't understand how you wouldn't be like, okay, let me hit play on this before I send it real quick. Oh! First off, gotta hold the mic four feet away from me, not like in my mouth. I guess he, like, I think people like this just don't even quite, you probably just sent it without even listening to it.

0:25:29 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, Yeah, absolutely. He just sent it.

0:25:36 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't understand that. It's to fucking Blake Lively. Like, I, I don't understand that way of being so much that I, it's hard to even put myself in that mindset.

0:25:40 Lydia: Yeah. Especially in a moment of conflict. Right. Like, like she is also unhappy right now and you're trying to repair this relationship and you're just gonna, like, shoot off the six minutes of nonsense. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

0:25:48 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. He thinks he can charisma his way out of it. It's like, oh man, let me explain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're just like, Jesus.

0:26:03 Lydia: And if I use enough buzzwords to show that I'm

0:26:08 Thomas: And if I do, doing a vocal fry and laugh and, like, so I can't get over it. I can' believe that this is anything but disgusting to people.

0:26:11 Lydia: Empathetic. Yeah.

0:26:18 Thomas: This is gross. Oh, all right. A little more left.

0:26:23 Clip: I want this movie to be healing. I want this movie to be commercial, just like you, and affect people and touch people. And I want to walk you through my whole plan and and the work that we're doing with the domestic violence partner that we found, Know More, and just my vision. And I just know that this can be really, really special, and it's going to be special, and you're the secret sauce. And anyways, I have so much more to say. I'm going to stop rambling because, Jesus Christ, it's been six minutes and 30 seconds, so fuck me. Right, you probably have kids all over you and a baby on your boob and you're listening to me ramble at two in the morning. Uh, I hope you're feeling better, and, uh, give Ryan my love. Thank you for, for sending me that. Means the world to me that you trust me with your feelings and your thoughts like that, and, um, I can't wait to spend more time with you. Okay, I'm done cutting myself

0:26:29 Thomas: Hmm.

0:27:05 Lydia: Yeah.

0:27:24 Lydia: Just, you know, five minutes too late cutting yourself off.

0:27:26 Thomas: So fucking gross. Yeah. Oh. But you understand he's self -aware when he said, oh, look at the fire. Yeah. It's been six minutes. No, self -aware would be like, oops, redo. Let me send a quick one. Hey, so sorry about that. I had, cause like, honestly, it even was what I said. Like, It's just his excuse. Oh, hey, I was going so fast with that that I didn't have time to give you the proper feedback.

0:27:35 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:27:50 Thomas: Sorry about that. But I definitely was thinking about your contributions and I had thoughts about it. Just didn't Have Time to Give it to You. So sorry about that, done.

0:27:56 Lydia: Uh, actually, looking back at the Reddit during this time. Yeah, just when it was posted on Baldoni Files specifically, shout out to ex-patriarch, who commented, he said, "But what really gets me, and I'll make content on this, is how he responds to Lively's exchange about how she was disappointed about getting non-specific platitudes instead of actionable, direct, and specific feedback, and he responds by rambling non-specifically for six whole minutes again, showing off his very performative nature and inability to offer genuine, authentic connection."

0:27:56 Thomas: What Reddit? Just Reddit. Yeah, yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, you don't understand. I oozed at her. I don't understanding why isn't she happy. I did my whole fucking routine at her, aw.

0:28:29 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. I know, I know.

0:28:46 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:28:46 Thomas: We should maybe just finish out what the exchange was. Us. So then I think this is kind of important. So he sends a message follow-up at 11:30 AM. So that was 245, we believe, AM. And then he goes to sleep, you know, wakes up kind of late. Makes sense to me. That's my schedule actually.

0:28:57 Lydia: AM Pacific. Yeah.

0:29:04 Thomas: He says, some morning thoughts in addition to my 2 AM semi -coherent ramble. One of the things that's been the hardest about this adaptation and all the rewrites is playing against the source material. I've rewritten the rooftop scene so many times. And even though I've changed the movie considerably. Yeah. So he's written by the way. That's why the point I made before, it's like, he's not the writer.

0:29:24 Thomas: Is this normal? Is it like he is the gatekeeper? Yeah.

0:29:24 Lydia: "I've rewritten the rooftop scene so many times." Yeah, with Christy's input, or... or yeah.

0:29:30 Thomas: Like when it, when it's her stuff, it'S like, well, we got to talk to Chrissy. We got to make sure it's in there. But like, he just talks about him writing a bunch of stuff. I don't, I don'T understand. Maybe there's something movie people, we actually do have several people who message us and are like, Hey, I do such and such in the film industry. I always want to be fair. I DON'T want to make make a point that isn't valid. It just feels weird to me that this no talent ass clown gets to just be like, yeah, I'm the gatekeeper writer of the movie. I've rewritten the rooftop scene. He says I've written it so many times. So that sounds like he's doing it, but then it's like, okay, but if Blake wants to contribute, then it'S a whole different disqualifying thing. And he has to go through Christie. And I don't understand that dynamic. Is that normal?

0:29:40 Lydia: Yeah.

0:30:07 Lydia: And then also simultaneously, then when the thought that Ryan Reynolds participated in it wanting to say like, oh, you know, a man had to step in because he couldn't trust a woman writer, etc, etc. And it's like, what are you talking about? Like you were doing the exact same thing.

0:30:17 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. I don't get it. Okay. So even though I've changed the movie considerably in many areas, I've kept it very close to the book in others. The rooftop is one of those scenes, which is why that last sparkly pass was a lot of fun, as it started to open up the movie for me. In some part, I kept it because I remember how fun it was to read the very first time.

I also know what it means to the fans, but we're not making a movie just for the fans, which is one of the reasons why I like what you did so much. With my first two films, tried to make them self-aware as often as I could, knowing the genre they were in and what I was up against, and adding the lightness and a little bit of comedy to relieve the pressure.

It's the only way I found that meaningful and at times heavy material can actually be digested. That's why my doc series about young people dying did so well. You earn the laughs and then you earn the tears. Oh, it keeps going. What you help do here is push it even more in that direction, which I was missing in parts. The way you kept the structure of the scene while still keeping the important romantic beats was really impressive and actually adds to the sexiness and tension. Imagine if we had to read this in his, this

0:31:29 Thomas: Would be an hour. It would take an hour to get through this.

0:31:29 Lydia: Yeah, it would it would take a long time.

0:31:31 Thomas: And it actually adds to his sexiness intention versus takes away from it. I do think us running it together comma is going to teach us a lot. If we had shot the early drafts, it could have been like eating too much rich chocolate cake. I like the messiness and I like her having real agency and being a willing participant versus him just happening to her and calling out the things about him the audience is already thinking. They are smarter than the studios ever want to give them credit for anyways. Just wanted to share that. If you're feeling better, I'm around this weekend to chat in real time. We'll send you FDX final later as well. So he sends that at 11, and mind you, she didn't respond to that voice message all morning, and she's on East Coast time, so like, I don't know when she gets up, but as a mom, like, she's not fucking sleeping in like he is, I guarantee it. Nursing mother which he awkwardly commented on. She might've been up when he sent that, just nursing and been like, I don't want my baby to hear this.

0:32:09 Lydia: No, no, no way. No way.

0:32:25 Thomas: Throws the phone across the floor. So she doesn't respond that whole time. And this will be important based on the insane fucking takes on this, I think. And then he sends another message, you know, nine hours later, which I have to imagine maybe he's like, hmm, no response to, No respons to my oozing charisma, charisma attempt. Let me, let me try and, and to be fair, he does get more specific in what he's talking about here.

0:32:25 Lydia: Maybe a little stressed out. Yeah? Yeah, I was gonna say, to his credit, it, this is probably a lot of what she was looking for the first time around, and so he did step up and share some actual feedback here. It still feels a little like blowing smoke up her ass a bit to me.

0:32:54 Thomas: I don't know. I think, yeah, maybe. I think, I mean, the voice message was for sure this, this is like, if this was the only response, I think that text was kind of fine, you know? Like, it'd be like, okay.

0:33:04 Lydia: I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, if it was just this, yeah, maybe.

0:33:14 Thomas: If that had been the only thing, if the voice memo had never happened, I'd be like, all right, yeah. And then she responds about three hours later, so she doesn't even respond after that.

0:33:17 Lydia: Maybe he poisoned the well against himself for me, and So this is like a five o'clock her

0:33:28 Thomas: So yeah, her time I'm seeing, we're guessing, is about 5:15 p.m. her time, 2:15 his time, and she says, "Thanks so much for the thoughtful messages, they're very appreciated.

0:33:37 Lydia: Time."

0:33:37 Thomas: Looking forward to catching up in person, and I too promise I'll freak you out, spook you, upset you, and be an actual beast, but I can promise it will always be in service of this movie and our shared goal, but we'll also always apologize. I appreciate being able to communicate openly always," and then a XX, and he says, "Love." You know, he hit love on that, and then 11 minutes later or so he says, "Here you go. Since this is our white draft, anything starred will come out in colored pages since I'm getting pressure to go to a blank Monday AM." I don't know what's redacted.

0:33:53 Lydia: Yeah. Love react.

0:34:09 Lydia: Yeah, yeah.

0:34:10 Thomas: Maybe let's start there. Also, if you can leave tracking on, that would be helpful.

0:34:15 Lydia: Whatever word it is, it, it ends in like a Y because there's a little tail.

0:34:18 Thomas: Yeah, I'm going to, uh, something Monday AM and maybe let's start there. Huh, I don't know what that would be and why would they need to reject it, but how do you feel about her message back?

0:34:23 Lydia: Yeah. I don't know. Hmm. I feel like it is direct saying what she needs to say, but not wanting to necessarily entertain the conversation further via text with her saying, looking forward to catching up in person.

0:34:43 Thomas: Well, in fairness, and that's, he's, he'd been saying like he's not getting texts and he wants to chat. Yeah, yeah.

0:34:46 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so I think that's probably her. Yeah I don' t know.

0:34:52 Thomas: To me this reads as, for one, with all the time gone by, hours since the voice message, these are all periods, there are no exclamation points. This reads very flat to me. This reads very like I'm not saying it's mean, I'm nuts, but this reads is like not really wanting to continue. To your point, it's like, like

0:35:10 Lydia: It's Not warm and fuzzy. It's, yeah, yeah.

0:35:10 Thomas: It's not, yeah, it's not worm. There's no, there's no emoji. There's a bunch of emojis before, there's no emojis in this. There's not a bunch no exclamation points in this, you know, this is reading tea leaves, but like it feels pretty flat as in like, maybe she had a bad reaction to that as any, I think human being should to that voice message. And it's just, thanks so much for the thoughtful messages, period. They're very appreciated period.

0:35:15 Lydia: Yeah. Mm. Hmm.

0:35:32 Thomas: You know, no emojis, no anything looking forward to catching up in person period. At the end, she does say, but I will also always apologize. I appreciate being able the always period. And then I guess the XX is something. What is that?

0:35:36 Lydia: Yeah. Uh, yeah, it's a very, like, English way of sending love, kind of thing, like kisses. Yeah, yeah, it's a very UK, mm.

0:35:48 Thomas: English? Really? Oh, I didn't know that. So I don't know. That's kind of how that reads to me. It's very, it's very flat.

0:35:51 Lydia: -hm, yeah. Yeah. That's kind of what I was getting at with direct, I guess, is like kind of what my feeling was, is that it's like, to your point, it's not, it's not mean, it's not rude, it's whatever. I think it's almost like the beginning of a pivot to, like, a more working relationship, like strictly working relationship.

0:35:59 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:36:12 Thomas: It does feel, that's what I'm getting at. It is hard because I don't know the context. I don't know the baseline level of bullshit in these Hollywood relationships. But if you received a voice message like that from a man you were working with, I'd be like, holy fucking shit. Yeah. I'd be like, are you? Wow. OK, that. Yeah, I'd be like that guy definitely wants to fuck you like that. That guy, I, or is just really in love with himself. And that feels, that feels off to me. And I wonder if and when she shared this with Ryan, because I can't imagine Ryan Reynolds hearing that and doing anything other than roasting him so fucking hard for it. Yeah.

0:36:26 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, that's a problem Oh yeah, I, I kind of feel like she probably sent it immediately after she heard it. Why wouldn't

0:36:51 Thomas: I feel like that. I mean, that's a long time to leave him on read, you know, after that.

0:36:56 Lydia: She, I, yeah, I think she could have also, like, if she listened to it and she's like, I don't know how to respond to this, like, you know, then talking to Ryan about, like, what should I do like, what are the key points here in this six minute thing that I could even respond

0:37:02 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then him sending the message in the morning that I think is a little more acceptable. And then she even still waits another three hours. Maybe she's busy. Could be busy.

0:37:12 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Four kids.

0:37:16 Thomas: But yeah, like, yeah maybe she's busy but but I also could easily read this. I could read this as her being put off and being like, okay, all right. Thanks for the thoughtful messages. They're very appreciated.

0:37:17 Lydia: Also, maybe the baby was sleeping. Sleep when the baby sleeps. You never know. Yeah.

0:37:31 Lydia: I do think it's a good point contrasting it with her previous messages and the way that they spoke to each other all leading up to it was far more emojis, smiles.

0:37:37 Thomas: Yeah, I will say she doesn't seem like an exclamation point person. So I will I want to be full fairness. I don't see any other exclamation points much, but tons of emojis. And especially after, after someone sending what's an apology, what is supposed to be an apology. I feel like that's a time to break out the emojis if ever, right? I mean, like normally it'd be like, oh, thanks heart, you know, something care, whatever, you know, and this is just flat, nothing, just no, just periods statements.

0:37:43 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, really appreciate it. Smiley. Yeah something. Yeah yeah

0:38:09 Thomas: I feels like this was weird to her.

0:38:11 Lydia: I agree.

0:38:12 Thomas: So let's shift to what the very chill internet has to say about this.

0:38:16 Lydia: So there's quite a few TikToks that we can't play in an audio medium because it's literally just the beginning of Justin's voice note and girls making like thirsty reactions, which is nuts to me. Like I'll briefly describe a couple of them. There's one where it's like tucking myself into bed while listening to Justin's voice note, and like smiling and stuff and getting undercovers. There is another one where a girl is just like kind of biting on her finger a little bit and like doing a facial reaction. I don't know. There is another ones where it is like getting ready for bed while listening to Justin's voice note and then you see like a sex toy at the very end before it ends. Yeah.

0:38:24 Thomas: Oh man. Man, okay.

0:38:56 Thomas: I mean, you do you, everybody, I guess, but what? Like, how popular are these? Can we tell? I don't know how any of that works.

0:39:00 Lydia: Strange, um, I mean, I think, like, it's hard for me to say for certain. I would say that it, like, it was pretty widespread, those reactions, not necessarily like tons of videos or anything like that, but like the comments that you're seeing on the videos, they're kind of like egging each other on. You see it in Reddit too. Some people saying that, you know, it was actually like pretty sexy. There is a corner of the internet that definitely interprets it that way.

0:39:31 Thomas: Hey. There's someone for everyone. Yeah, I mean, if you're really, if you're already into the guy, I guess you'd be like, okay, he's doing his, I mean, it's the kind of thing where if someone does this amount of trying to charisma it up with the hitting on you and you don't like him, it's off-putting, and you do like him, it's fine, you know? I guess that's kind going to be split that way. It's not going to be like some mild takes either way. It's going to either be repulsive or it's good. You know, I guess.

0:39:36 Lydia: Yeah.

0:39:54 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. There were a couple that said, you know, he needs to be reading audiobooks for Thorns and Roses, whatever that whatever that book is.

0:40:01 Thomas: God. I don't know what that is, but whoever... Normally, vocal fry is something people complain about. I can't stand it, whether or not it's men or women. Vocal fry sucks. Sometimes I do vocal fry, and I edit myself, and I'm like, oh man, I hate that. But apparently, I guess if it's that guy, it's fine.

0:40:07 Lydia: Romantic books. Yeah Yeah, There's, there was, was like a, an app for calm meditative music or whatever, and they made his voice note one of their sounds. Yeah, not crazy.

0:40:28 Thomas: Hold

0:40:30 Clip: Off. Good night. Hey, Blake. It is 2 in the morning. Hopefully this does not wake you

0:40:30 Thomas: On. I just need to see. Am I crazy? Is he?

0:40:38 Clip: Up whoo Wow there's so much I want to say to you and I hope that we can um

0:40:46 Thomas: No, can't do it.

0:40:48 Lydia: I think if it were just like the vocal fry at that beginning point and then it like cleared up a little bit, I don't think that would have been as off-putting to me, but I, I think he's just vocally very tired and maybe some of it's put on as well or exaggerated for effect, but, but yeah, I don't know. It's, yeah. But what we're going to go through here are some more like vocal reactions given our medium, still some TikToks. And I want to start with this idea that Blake Lively fell in love with him and the thought about how this proves that she probably fell in love with him.

0:41:21 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, mm -hmm. Mm -hmm, okay, here we go.

0:41:29 Clip: Oh my gosh I just heard Justin Belden's voice memo

0:41:33 Thomas: Why is it so quiet?

0:41:33 Lydia: I don't know.

0:41:35 Clip: He literally sounds like Joel Goldberg I legit was like Which maybe is why Blake Lively fell in love with him Holy shit second point He needs to get a deal with Audible Cause that man's voice is sexy

0:41:39 Thomas: Who is that? From me?

0:41:40 Lydia: From you? Yeah. No.

0:41:56 Lydia: So the Joe character that she's mentioning there is from the TV show You on Netflix. Joe is played by Penn Badgley, who was another actor from Gossip Girl. She dated him for years. Penn Badgeley is also Baha'i. And so, yeah, kind of a weird coincidence there.

0:42:10 Thomas: Oh, by the way.

0:42:15 Lydia: Yeah. So yeah, so the thought is like several people said it It sounds like Joe from You. And so this person in particular just, yeah, said like, oh my gosh, maybe that's why she fell in love with him because he sounds so much like her ex -boyfriend. Yeah.

0:42:24 Thomas: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

0:42:32 Lydia: Another one kind of centering the men here is about Ryan Reynolds clearly being insecure. And that's what this tells us.

0:42:39 Thomas: Oh, sure, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

0:42:42 Clip: You need to have your cold shower running before you listen to the voice note that Justin Baldoni sent Blake Lively, okay? My husband, any husband, I think, would be pissed if he heard that voice note. And it's not that Justin Baldoni did anything wrong. It's that Justin Baldoni makes any man feel insecure because forget the sultry, sexy voice. Can we talk about the emotional maturity that that man possesses? The way that he validates feelings, he accepts responsibility, he talks about what he will And honestly, I mean, that's what this whole thing boils down to. And I wish I could stop caring because like some days I wake up and I'm like, I don't give a shit. I don'T even want to see videos on this. I scroll past them. But when I heard that voice note and I listened to the whole thing, it just confirms to me that RR feels really insecure. And whether or

0:42:54 Thomas: Hmm.

0:43:03 Lydia: Not

0:43:19 Thomas: Is that what is that noise? Is that? Oh, it's hurt. OK. Well, yeah. What?

0:43:22 Lydia: Hers. Yeah. And she's also cutting herself off early.

0:43:27 Clip: Not something happened, like did something she shouldn't have done or said something she should have done, whatever, I think what it boils down to is Ryan was big mad. He saw the dailies, he heard the voice note, it sent him into a spiral. And I think that's what kind of initiated the first first lawsuit. And I've gone back and forth on this. That's how I see the world. I kind of straddle the fence on lots of things. I don't believe that everything is black and white. And I like to see the nuances. And every time something else has dropped, my opinions kind of change. But like, what a shit show. What's next? Everything aside in this case, listening

0:43:31 Lydia: Wild speculation.

0:43:43 Lydia: Yeah.

0:43:56 Thomas: OK.

0:43:56 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. And then I just want to spend a little time talking about this emotional maturity angle. And we're going to hear from someone who is insistent that what Justin Baldoni is doing here is intentional communication. And more men should be doing stuff like this.

0:44:12 Thomas: Oh, OK. Cool.

0:44:16 Clip: To Justin Baldoni's voice message, and seeing the reactions, I feel a little sad because there there seem to be a lot of women who have never heard intentional nonviolent communication. So when they hear it, they automatically think it's like gaslighting or conniving or covert narcissism. When in my reality, it's intentional communication. It's valuing the other person's emotions. It is actually centering themselves in the language so they're not attacking the other person. It's creating connection by making jokes like starting out saying, "I hope this doesn't wake you up," so he's being considerate. And when he mentions that she's maybe feeding, breastfeeding, is not. She also set the precedent and the expectations of their communication when she brought up the suppositories. What I heard was him actually acknowledging her load as a woman, but it's It's fascinating how we hear things from our unique perspectives and experiences in the. And I truly hope more women get to experience healthy men, healthy and emotionally intelligent and intentional communication henceforth.

0:44:33 Thomas: Yeah, it's really funny. She mouthed sexual. Oh sure. Yeah.

0:45:10 Lydia: Yeah.

0:45:35 Lydia: So I think one thing that's like really key here, and that woman brings it up, about, like, how we all have our different experiences and perspectives and stuff about, like, how we're going to interpret that. The two biggest groups of people that reacted, like, the two biggest reactions, I guess, from that voice memo was either you thought it was super sexy and you're going to make a TikTok video about how you're gonna reach for your sex toy, like, like, while you're listening to it, or you're finding it creepy and uncomfortable. Either way, that should tell you it's an inappropriate message to be sending to someone you work with.

0:45:44 Thomas: Sure. Yeah hmm. That sure is a good point.

0:46:15 Lydia: That is crazy to me. It doesn't matter. Like, fine. Find it sexy. That's fine. That is inappropriate to send to a coworker.

0:46:17 Thomas: Yeah yeah Yeah, yeah, that's a good, good point. I was going to say that I think just the entertainment dynamics would drive you towards that kind of joke because the joke of the vibrator, the whatever, the sexiness, that does two things. For one, it is a funny take on like a very heated situation, obviously. For two, it totally invalidates Blake, you know, because it's like, oh, she should be so flattered. She should be so amazed. And it's an easy punchline.

0:46:49 Thomas: So I think that like it's just an easy video for a lot of women creators. I think it's running downhill to make that video. So, I feel like that's a big part of it

0:46:35 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And there's also like that taboo element too that I think can probably draw people.

0:46:57 Thomas: Yeah. And like, you know, people are into him. He's hot. I'm not gonna deny he was hot in the show. Like, people are into him. I have no, nothing against anyone who's into him.

0:47:03 Lydia: Yeah.

0:47:13 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:47:13 Thomas: Can we find one of those skits or do one of those?

0:47:15 Lydia: Oh, here's one, here's one.

0:47:16 Clip: Exactly, Ryan. Honey, yes, sweetheart. I'm gonna go to bed early. Sounds good, babe.

0:47:32 Clip: Hey, Blake, it is, uh, two in the morning, um, hopefully this does not wake you up.

0:47:44 Clip: Sweetheart, what was that noise? I was just scrolling on my phone. Weird, because I thought I heard Justin's voicemail again. Just be careful not to poke the dragon, Khaleesi. Well, get some good sleep, honey. Hey, Blake. It is two in the morning. Hopefully this does not wake you up

0:48:07 Lydia: Yeah. So weird. I can't imagine doing something like that.

0:48:15 Thomas: Oh, was that self-explanatory to the

0:48:20 Lydia: I guess I, yeah, so

0:48:20 Thomas: Listeners, I guess it's a dude in a Blake wig and pretending to go sneak off to like listen to the

0:48:24 Lydia: Wearing multiple beanies, making fun of It Ends with Us wardrobe. That's been kind of like a common thing. Yeah, sneaking off to bed, saying they're gonna go to bed early and then going to masturbate to Justin's voicemail. And then Ryan, you just hear a voice, no image of Ryan, interrupting it.

0:48:43 Thomas: So this is why we did that painful amount of trying to figure out the time stamps of this. Like, I know it sounds like a stupid small thing, and for the record, I'm going back and forth. I do think maybe the time, timestamp was 1.44 AM because it's UTC. It's unreadable, but it's either would be 08.44 or 09.44. We'll go with 08, point is, when you look at the actual fucking timeline, all these, it is incredible.

The sexism here, all of these parodies and all these like, "Oh, so sexy" is the best. First off, to your point again, why are you sending that to a coworker? And that's why, that's what I was saying. Like, it just sounds like somebody who either thinks Blake's in love with them or everyone's in love with them. It sounds like somebody hitting on someone in a bar, you know, who's just really full of themselves. I'm trying to go out of my way to acknowledge that people experience the world differently than I am, but I just, just, just so we're clear, within one second of this, it's a no for me. It's like, what are you fucking talking about? I'm not even close to acknowledging that this is anything other than literally sexual harassment if someone sent that to you. It instantly be like, this is okay. This guy is really trying to hit on you at that hour in the night or whatever, something.

0:49:24 Lydia: Oh, yeah. And I would send it straight to HR. I'd figure out what the HR was. Yeah. No, absolutely not.

0:49:54 Thomas: Yeah. Your coworker. Yeah, 100%. I'm allowing for like, it's, it's Hollywood. I don't know. You know, it's Hollywood. People are fake, especially with all the, you know, the language he did that that one person thinks is like amazing intentional language that just sounds, yeah, it just sounds fake to me. I mean, it' s if you took it all at face value, sure. And it's not as though he did anything terribly wrong. I think the main point to me was that it just seemed like making a huge deal about it.

Like if somebody makes a huge deal About when you express something like that just feels like going over the top, you know, just feels But anyway, the point is, it's a creepy fucking message. It's creepy as hell. And we look at the timeline and Blake sends what is pretty long messages explaining herself after we already covered after that comment he made explaining herself. Her last message is at 1044. Her time. It's not super late for an adult. It's like, you know, it's kind of late, I guess. And then he sends this thing two hours later. And then, he sends his voicemail four hours later, if it's the 1.44 a.m.,

0:50:07 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Therapy speak.

0:50:26 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:50:58 Thomas: We'll say. And then she sends a morning follow -up ten hours later and then three hours later she finally responds. And that's supposed to be her just in love with him. I can't think of anything more sexist than like this dude sends three unresponded to things, one of which is a sexual harassment message is the creepiest fucking message. She doesn't respond. And when she does, it's very flat as we went over.

0:51:08 Lydia: Right. Yeah.

0:51:21 Thomas: And that's her being in love with him. The injustice of it, the unfairness of the way people will so easily go after women about a thing like this just really, really frustrates me. It's so unfair.

0:51:33 Lydia: It's honestly really demeaning. It's like another way to blame the victim. She has expressed feelings that she has been sexually harassed. And so then everyone is finding ways to say, oh, she wasn't sexually harass. Rash. She was actually falling in love with him. That's crazy.

0:51:38 Thomas: Yeah, it is crazy. No.

0:51:51 Lydia: That is just a horribly offensive take in a situation like that. You would never say that to a real person like that you knew in life ever. Yeah.

0:52:01 Thomas: Imagine with these facts, a real person who brought in lawyers and got them to agree to change their behavior before coming back to work. Imagine if you're like, she likes him. Yeah.

0:52:07 Lydia: And people try to excuse it. And they're like, well, it's because I don't like her. Well, that doesn't matter. Like, that's fine. You can not like her and also recognize that she feels she was sexually harassed. Or people are like, Well, they're actors. That still a workplace And she still has a right to feel, you know, dignity and safety in her workplace, regardless of what that workplace is. Those are just, they're nonsense excuses.

0:52:34 Thomas: And I'll go hot take the other way between the weird fucking noise he made when filming and between this, like I wouldn't, the far more plausible thing, I'm not making this claim as a certainty or anything, but much more plausible is that he had some sort of thing and wanted her. And that's why there was a lot of this attention. Engine. And if you say that, that actually makes sense. Go back to our office analysis. If you were to say, well, I think maybe the guy sexually harassing the woman is like kind of into her, I guess that, oh yeah, that makes sense, yeah, is trying to have sex with her. Yeah, no, that makes sense!

0:52:36 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, God, don't remind me.

0:52:50 Lydia: Yeah, yeah.

0:53:00 Lydia: Would like to maybe engage in something. Yeah? And the woman reporting him for sexual harassment probably is not wanting to engage with him sexually.

0:53:10 Thomas: Yeah, I can't believe we have to say this, but the woman reporting the man for sexual harassment, not into him, the man doing the sexual harassment, probably into the woman.

0:53:18 Lydia: Crazy. Yeah! Yeah. Yeah.

0:53:23 Thomas: It's just, it's just fucking crazy. I mean, I, I think at best, Justin is clueless and is, you know, that explains it more, I guess, and cluelESS and a narcissist, but like, boy, I don't know. This is a weird message. I'm telling you, this is a, this isthe kind of thing. Again, if anyone out there, any man out there has a wife whose coworker sent them this, I think you know how you would feel.

0:53:45 Lydia: And like, we also have been exposed to plenty of like other Justin content through this too, right? Like Man Enough podcasts and the TED Talk and things of that nature. And like seeing it all together, it just feels like this was, and again, I don't want to say he's consciously doing this. I think that there's, it has become probably part of his personality in some way to use specific types of language to fit the brand that he is, to be a feminist ally. And so like, make sure you use the right language, make sure you offer apologies with specific tone, and it just starts to feel, it starts to feel a little put on.

0:54:28 Thomas: And consider again, how much he says in the complaint, how he was always reticent. Oh, he's hesitant. He didn't want it. He didn'T know. And then meanwhile, he said, fuck yes. Oh yeah. And then that voicemail is like, oh, I've been so excited to work with you on that. I'm so excited, so excited. To work with you on this.

0:54:45 Thomas: I can't wait to go on a journey together. Like he has done nothing but encourage her to contribute artistically.

0:54:45 Lydia: Yeah, and what's funny too is in the timeline. They also say that but then simultaneously they say that she was overstepping.

0:54:56 Thomas: Yeah, I know. It's funny. What they do is they first say all those other things where it's like, yeah, he was really, yeah, here, let's say the contrast is kind of funny. Let's go to the narrative in the complaint. There's all this language about Baldoni was reluctant to allow an actor rather than a union screenwriter to rewrite this key scene. Meanwhile, is he a union screenwriter? Is it because he's doing the writing?

0:55:02 Lydia: Yeah. Wasn't invited to do that and blah blah blah.

0:55:19 Lydia: I do not think so.

0:55:21 Thomas: But Baldoni felt the need to allow Lively to write the scene and agreed to take a look at what she put together. The draft of the rooftop scene that Lively sent Baldoni dramatically differed from what had been written originally. Baldoni Was hesitant about many of the changes, but thank Lively for her passion. That's the message we don't have.

0:55:35 Lydia: Yeah.

0:55:35 Thomas: And diplomatically, oh okay, but it was diplomatic, so told her that

0:55:38 Lydia: We can trust their, their version of

0:55:40 Thomas: The scene would likely end up being somewhere between the original version and Lively's version. It's a seemingly stung by Baldoni's exceedingly mild resistance, and then later that language was Baldoni understood the subtext he needed to comply with Lively's direction for the script, and then the below the message could not have been clear. Baldoni was not just dealing with Lively, he was also facing Lively's dragons, two of the most influential and wealthy celebrities in the world who were not afraid to make things very difficult called for him. And then the timeline as

0:55:52 Lydia: That, yeah.

0:56:06 Lydia: In the timeline for this, uh, Baldoni followed up with a voice note as promised okay, responding to her text about her dragons, as promised a man of his

0:56:14 Thomas: Promised, that's like when the Bible predicts that Jesus would come or whatever, and then it's like, my God, the Bible predicted the Bible. Wow, that, how did they do that, that's incredible, that is so funny. Parentheses, as promised.

0:56:27 Lydia: Word, circular, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:56:33 Thomas: Who made the promise? You, you made the premise it before she even responded. Like, that's pretty crazy. Like, okay. Okay, let's say I'm sending Lydia unwanted attention. Let's say, I'm giving you unwanted attention and I send you a text that's like, hey, I am going to send you a voicemail as soon as I get out of this Uber.

0:56:36 Lydia: Yep. Yep, okay.

0:56:53 Thomas: You don't respond. And then I send a sexual harassment voicemail at 2 a.m. And then you're like, not happy with it. And I say, well, I promised I'd send a vocemail. You mean in the message that she didn't respond to? That's funny to even add. That's crazy. Who added that?

0:56:58 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. Superfluous. Yeah I wish I could see. I wish I Could see the draft versions of this nonsense exhibit and how they put this together but we'll never see that. Responding to her text about her dragons and expressed his sincere apologies for not being more sensitive to her feelings blah blah blah.

0:57:19 Thomas: Right there. Hold on. Not being more sensitive to her feelings. That's once again, so condescending when she's like, hey, I just wanted you to engage with the fucking text I gave you. Engage with the fucking contributions.

0:57:26 Lydia: Oh yeah. Yeah The words in front of you, yeah.

0:57:39 Thomas: Yeah, engage with The Art I Tried to Create. Either bad or good. Either be like it, don't like it. Do like it she just wants to be dignified. Oh, sorry. I wasn't sensitive enough to your feelings. Like if someone said that to me after I said that I would f***in punch. I'd be so annoyed if this condescending vocal fry asshole. If I was like, "Hey man, yeah, but I put a lot of work into that. Do you want to give me, like, notes on, you know, like either way, like, I like, don't just be like, 'Oh, love your passion.' Be like, 'Hey, bad sentence here, good line here.'"

0:57:52 Lydia: Yeah, that That's like, uh, when you go see a play and you don't really know what to say during meet and greet to the cast and you're like, "You look like you're having a lot of fun." Up

0:58:12 Thomas: Yeah, well, I'm having a lot of fun, yeah, and after all that

0:58:17 Lydia: There, everybody knows what that means. Everybody knows what that means. Uh,

0:58:20 Thomas: I know this is either a lawyer later summarizing it in this thing, but I just think it's funny to also say, "Not being more sensitive to her feelings." That feels to me like such a fucking sexist dude's knee-jerk way to write something when, when a dude is apologizing, you know, like, ah, it was just your feelings or whatever. It wasn't sensitive. Yeah.

0:58:25 Lydia: Huh. Oh yeah. Yeah, womanly feelings. You and your female feelings.

0:58:42 Thomas: I'll go ahead and say this. I don't think sensitivity had anything the fuck to do with the problem. The problem was she wanted you to engage with the work.

0:58:46 Lydia: No. Yeah, yeah.

0:58:51 Thomas: So funny. Hmm.

0:58:51 Lydia: Exactly. It's supposed to be a working professional relationship. I'm going to skip a little bit of this paragraph and just get to the end here. Ultimately, Baldoni tried to convey that her thoughts are always welcome and that he is excited to be working with someone of Lively's caliber and all the value she brings to this film. He spends a considerable amount of time encouraging her and assuring her that she is valued.

0:59:02 Thomas: Oh, that's weird. Doesn't that contradict what we just read? Okay.

0:59:15 Lydia: Literally the opposite from the narrative. Yeah.

0:59:17 Thomas: I feel like they were, they painted themselves into a corner by releasing the voicemail and then having to summarize it faithfully, I guess. It's kind of funny. Oh boy. Well, we could go on about this forever. It's just so infuriating to see all the talk about how it's Blake Lively's in love with him. Oh, he's so sexy. And it's just like, it's so inappropriate of someone who she's complained about sexual harassment. Like, just imagine in any other scenario, as we've already said, like any other workplace harassment scenario being like, well, she actually secretly likes him. And that's the problem. It's insulting. It's sexist. It's consulting.

0:59:23 Lydia: Yeah, mm -hmm.

0:59:49 Lydia: Yeah I absolutely Absolutely agree. And also, regardless of your reaction to the voice message, it is likely inappropriate workplace conduct.

0:59:59 Thomas: Yeah. Well, we'll have to get back into the amended complaint minds for future episodes. So next time on Gavel Gavel, we'll get back to that complaint. Can't wait. I love it. It just takes forever. We'll see everybody then. Thanks for listening.

1:00:09 Lydia: Keep trying to make a dent. Yeah, gavel it up.

1:00:18 Thomas: Gavel out.

1:00:41 Thomas: You don't understand. I ooze deader.