Lively v. Baldoni 38 - Khaleesi and Her Dragons

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:01 Clip: All rise. Court is now in session. Court is reconvened. I may be seated. Maintain order. The federal rise to face the jury and harken to its verdicts.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavel in, everybody. What's up, gavel heads? I forget some of the other ones we liked. I got attached to gavel in and I do like gavelin, but then, you know, we had gavelheads. Gavel heads, gavel -in gavelhead.

0:00:39 Lydia: Gavel in, gavel heads. Yeah.

0:00:39 Thomas: We can do both of those. I feel like there's some other good ones, but anyway, I'm Thomas. That over there is the amazing Lydia Smith. How are you doing?

0:00:46 Lydia: Oh, wow. Amazing. Lydia Smith. What did I do to?

0:00:49 Thomas: Oh, sorry. This was the normal Lydia Smith I thought someone else was there. Nevermind. No just kidding fold my gavel oh that's

0:00:54 Lydia: I'm going to take my gavel and go. Put on my robe. Take my gavel. I'll be in my chambers.

0:01:05 Thomas: True judges get chambers who else gets chambers in in life in society

0:01:07 Lydia: Yeah, like dowagers in England. I don't know. It is cool. And chamber maids.

0:01:11 Thomas: Not anyone yeah chambers it's cool and there's chamber music which I mean chamber music must go fully unheard these days because there's no chambers in which to

0:01:27 Lydia: Don't chamber maids only, like, change bathroom stuff, though?

0:01:30 Thomas: Play. I don't know, probably.

0:01:32 Lydia: I don't know. I feel like all this stuff came up on Downton Abbey when we watched it a million years ago.

0:01:37 Thomas: That's, I think that's post-chamber.

0:01:41 Lydia: You really think so?

0:01:41 Thomas: I think that's in the post-chamber period of England. After the Reformation, the chamber Reformation.

0:01:49 Lydia: The chamber reformation. The chamber revolution.

0:01:52 Thomas: Ever since Martin Luther stapled that chamber pot to the wall and our door.

0:01:56 Lydia: Stapled? Stapled. That doesn't work regardless of what timeline we're in.

0:02:05 Thomas: What are we doing? So we're back to the complaint today and we're going through some interesting parts. We're going Through Some Contentious Messaging. Well, I don't know. We're Going Through Some Messaging To Back And Forth That Was Totally Fine Until Maybe It Wasn't Later On When Baldoni Decided It Wasn'T. We're Also Going To Get The Infamous Dragons Text Today.

0:02:26 Lydia: Stapled, mm-hmm.

0:02:26 Thomas: So We'll Talk About That And So Much More. Why Don't We Just Take Our Usual Break, Which You Can Avoid At Patreon .com Slash Galvapod And Then We'll Get To It.

0:02:41 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:02:41 Thomas: All Right. Well, Now We Do The Thing Where We Restart And This Restarts The Timeline. We're not going to go through it all, but this allows us, I think this is something I've been worried about. I want to make sure we go through exhibit A as well. And I think this is now where it links with their timeline. And so we're going to, yeah, again, we're going to filter as much as we can.

0:02:56 Lydia: More or less yeah yeah

0:03:00 Thomas: Now we're going to link up with that timeline and we're going to tell you anything you need to know about what this bullshit claims. So we talked about the Colleen Hoover and him getting the rights. It's been a while, but he did, we did talk about that in a previous case. So we'll try to skip as much of that as we can. So he talks about kind of the process of optioning this book and there's something so there's something that we talked about in a patron only episode about Brian Friedman and how shitty he is that I think it's worth refreshing people on because he talks about five feet apart the film based on a woman who lived with cystic fibrosis remind us what went on with all

0:03:35 Lydia: So there was actually a lawsuit against wayfarer involving this movie five feet apart by someone named travis flores travis floris is a member of the cf community he lives with cystic fibrosis or he did at the time and so he felt that this movie was very similar to a screenplay that he had worked on and he had previously worked with wayfarers for a a different project.

0:04:01 Lydia: So there were some concerns that his screenplay had kind of made it over to Wayfair studio execs, and then they built their own screenplay off of his work. Now, interestingly, Brian Friedman was his lawyer during this.

0:04:00 Thomas: That oh yeah hmm yeah interestingly and disgustingly because when you think about what went down here so what happened with

0:04:17 Lydia: Yeah. So they fought back and forth a bit. It ended up being dismissed and Flores passed away shortly after, just last year. And when Friedman Was asked about this, you know, like you used to be on the opposite side of Wayfaire with this previous lawsuit, he responded in the weirdest way possible. This was January 23rd of this year. He said, in the copyright infringement case, I learned what great people Justin and Wayfarer were.

0:04:46 Lydia: I learned that they did absolutely nothing wrong and that there was no liability on their part whatsoever.

0:04:45 Thomas: Yeah that's genuinely like I don't even even know if that's okay ethically as a lawyer because like so so Friedman just to make sure this is clear for everybody Friedman represented the other side this guy who had cystic fibrosis felt that Wayfair ripped his screenplay off and Friedman wasn't able to fucking prevail for that guy in court at all it was dismissed and then that guy passes away and now Friedman's representing the other site of that and he's almost using this dead person's memory and saying well we found out in that case when I represented this person who passed away that actually they're great and they did nothing wrong. I don't even think you could do that. Well, yeah. Yeah.

0:04:56 Lydia: No, I don't think so. Yeah. Yep. Yep, yep.

0:05:28 Lydia: Yeah, that seems crazy to me. I don t think you can. I think even in death, that stuff is protected right like like how like I learned that they did absolutely nothing wrong like that would imply if it went to discovery or something that yeah and it's gross yeah

0:05:41 Thomas: It borders on violating attorney -client privilege, but it's also just, like, yeah, it's just gross. It's just a weird thing that you shouldn't do. Like, it just is, ugh.

0:05:48 Lydia: Yeah it's horrible friedman's a piece of shit so um yeah but that's an episode for another

0:05:51 Thomas: Yeah, he sucks so bad, which we already did on patreon .com slash gavelpod. So anyway, one thing I wanted to point out about this, it just doesn't seem to me that Baldoni understands when people are kissing his ass for certain And I don't think that Colleen Hoover was being super fake or anything, but when he emphasizes like, oh, Colleen Huber just recognized how great those movies were and how to be fantastic. And she was like, you should also be Ryle. It's like, okay, keep in mind that you're buying the book from her.

0:06:21 Thomas: I get the feeling that he doesn't understand when people might be maybe blowing a little smoke. She would have every incentive to be like, yeah, you're perfect for this project. This is great. You're amazing. You'd be great. Because then he's going to be more attached to it and want to spend more money on buying the rights or like, you know, like that serves her purposes. And I'm not saying that's what she did necessarily, but it does seem like he doesn'T understand people's incentives. And he just looks at if they said something nice about him. Yeah, that's great. You know, like, that - that's what it feels like to me. But, fair enough. She told Baldoni, you are the right person to make this movie. She says to the person who's going to spend money buying the movie rights

0:06:20 Lydia: Day yeah the words yeah yeah yeah

0:06:58 Thomas: From her. It's like literally a salesman telling you, you're the right person to buy this used car. She - she told me I'm good for this used car, guys!

0:07:04 Lydia: Well and it'S like honestly what this tells me what this tells me too is like reading through the emails back and forth the only I mean I don't think that she had offers yet for anything else this is pretty early right this is before it blew up on book talk um you know this is 2019

0:07:22 Thomas: Oh, yeah, cause they did kinda, you know, smart move. I'll give them credit for that. They got in on the - early on this.

0:07:27 Lydia: And she says in one of the emails to him I've actually been working on a script for it already along with a producer friend of mine who lives in la yada yada we sat down for a week and outlined it last month but I had to put a pause on it because I'm on deadline for this book I'm writing I think like she doesn't have time to do this and this might have been the first offer she got to turn this into a movie she had it you know a couple little requirements for it that he wouldn't crowdfund to do the production of it and things like that like yeah why wouldn't you want to seize on that

0:07:58 Thomas: You'd be perfect to buy the used car! Are yeah no and and then the emails are nice like I think they're fine the only thing that stuck out to me on the emails was him saying oh and I love the fact that there's no bad guys

0:07:59 Lydia: Opportunity yeah oh when did he say that

0:08:09 Thomas: I love that you held nothing back from the pain of Lillian Ryle's past I love it there are really no quote bad guys and it's like yeah is that true kind

0:08:17 Lydia: I think if you ask anyone who read the book like based off of the reaction that we've seen with the movie everyone is very clear like ryle is a bad guy I think so

0:08:25 Thomas: Of yeah I thought he was worse in the book right that's from that's my impression I haven't read the book but we watched the movie

0:08:29 Lydia: I think so yeah and so like for him like it's in black and white here where his interpretation of the book is that ryle's not a bad

0:08:38 Thomas: There's no bad guy the guy

0:08:39 Lydia: That you know he's he's a victim of his own trauma yeah and he's also not a bad like the way that Ryle is portrayed in the film is the way that justin baldoni interpreted him to be the entire

0:08:41 Thomas: Who's beats his partner yeah yeah I don't want to make too much of this, but it's just like, eh, that's kind of interesting. I don't think I would phrase it that way. I think it would be like, I think there are movies where you'd say there's no bad guys. The movie where someone is physically abusive with a woman is not a movie where I'd say that. I would say like, you know, like everyone is also a victim maybe. Like I'd Say like, yeah, no, it's people are also victims of their own trauma and they become bad people because of their trauma. Yeah. But I wouldn't say no bad guys like what? Yeah.

0:09:12 Lydia: Time and ryle would have benefited from therapy yeah yeah I guess my point is is that when people are getting upset about how they feel ryle is portrayed the answer here is justin baldoni like then you need to be upset with justin baldoni because that was always his interpretation since 2019 that was his interpretation of ryle and so obviously that's the way he wanted to play ryle too is that this idea that ryle is also not a bad guy

0:09:40 Thomas: So this is where we get to some new stuff I think Justin Baldoni is going to start to paint more of a picture of his and Lively's relationship which I actually think is relevant you know it is a little it's a little weird like you know we're getting one side of this but I think it's relevant to

0:09:49 Lydia: Yeah I think so too and it also feels invasive of course but yeah right

0:09:56 Thomas: Yeah and I think it's relative to his claims like like fair enough if he wants to claim in certain times that like hey we actually had this closeness that would justify some of the comments I'm making I think that's fair enough for him to make that defense and so I think It is relevant but I don't think we've seen much of this before at all right

0:10:08 Lydia: Right. Yeah, let's dig into this. In the beginning, it appeared that Baldoni and Lively would have a positive, collaborative, creative partnership. Baldoni & Lively worked closely in the early days of the film, trading ideas about filling key roles in the film's cast and crew. Their working relationship grew close. Baldoni &Lively shared stories and pictures from their lives, commiserated over family illnesses, and exchanged jokes and memes. Baldoni offered concern and support when Lively faced family health concerns. They texted almost daily, and a friendly banter established a comfortable dynamic that under typical circumstances would have made working together easy. Lively even felt comfortable enough to make silly jokes, redirecting a sweet compliment Baldoni gave. This is May 11th. So this is a couple of weeks before or a week, about a week before shooting began. Right.

0:10:51 Thomas: Well that's like right before shooting right I think this stuff is valid evidence for someone who's been accused of something to bring up but I also think it's important for anyone evaluating the evidence to be like wait so this was before any of the sexual harassment so you're saying before the sexual harrassment we had a great relationship you know like so let's keep that in mind

0:11:07 Lydia: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So text messages back and forth a bit. Blake Lively says, I feel the same. It's such a good feeling to get work done that we're proud of and to do it together. It just clicks when we find it. And that's just as rewarding as filming it or editing it or marketing it or releasing it this is all storytelling this is why we do it thank you for your collaboration I'm really proud of what we're doing justin baldoni responds I like sentimental blake and blake lively responds never met her and then justin baldoni says I also like asshole blake don't worry okay good night and blick lively says I've met her so have my suppositories good night and then jason baldoni laugh reacted to so have myself suppository this was the nature of their relationship which made lively's later allegations all the more baffling Yeah, it's a joke. I don't know. Like, yeah. Yeah.

0:11:47 Thomas: Okay okay I mean sure I guess I don't know how to read that either way like I could read that either way. I don't really think it's that relevant because because this is before filming when all the allegations are yeah so

0:12:01 Lydia: I mean, and this could have continued to be their kind of relationship. Like had things gone different on set, but they didn't.

0:12:08 Thomas: I think what's interesting is as I go along with the timeline there's a lot in the timeline they're skipping here that's about like the body shame stuff it's just setting up her confessing to Justin that she's worried about her body etc etc so I don't know if they might reset that because maybe that'll be like a separate thing so yeah I don'T think we need to go over it now but I'm just flagging that just in case So here's the heading. Lively begins asserting control almost immediately. Let's see if we get anything important here.

0:12:26 Lydia: Yeah. Separate heading. Yeah, we've talked about the wardrobe. They talk about the Wardrobe.

0:12:39 Thomas: So we've gone over this, but let's see if this version of this incident differs from anything else we've heard from Justin, because we have heard this in his previous New York Times complaint, I think. But I think he has a decent point in terms of like, hey, we handed over control of the wardrobe and then these paparazzi shots like everyone hated him. I think that's a decent professional point, and he could use that when he's talking and dealing with Blake, but I don't really see it relevant to any of this. But it does lead into our, like, following these events, Baldoni approached Lively in her hair and makeup trailer where she was surrounded by her team to ask if they could speak after she was done getting her hair makeup done. Baldoni wanted to discuss necessary wardrobe adjustments, reassert his role as director, and get her on board with him having approval over her character's wardrobe. Because you remember, this was the one that I felt weird about how Blake described it.

0:13:28 Thomas: So, getting his description, they later had that conversation in her trailer. While professional, it took considerable time and was later grossly misrepresented in Lively's CRD complaint, which falsely characterized the exchange as a lengthy outburst that delayed filming and caused the crew to, quote, wait for hours while Baldoni cried in Lively's dressing room. On information and belief, Lively circulated this false account to the New York Times with the intention and result that it be widely published. Well, she's allowed to tell her version of a story, too. That's not anything. The conversation did not take hours, and any length of time it took was not because Baldoni cried for hours. In truth, rather than take heed of the concerns of the film's distributor and director, Lively took this time to, among other things, suggest to Baldoni that he was being gaslit by Sony, Heath, and the other producer, and to try to convince him to let her continue to take the helm. Baldoni did briefly become emotional during the conversation, but only in response to what he believed was a genuine compliment from Lively, praising his work as a director and actor in hindsight

0:13:53 Lydia: Mean that's the New York Times. Yeah mm-hmm.

0:14:44 Thomas: This was part and parcel of the ongoing pattern of manipulation and gaslighting by lively intended to continue to allow her autonomy over her wardrobe I don't know this was her allegation and maybe we should pull up her complaint this was weird and it was her saying he was crying over people calling her old or something I don'T know this is one where I feel the most suspicious of blake's account but also him saying he got emotional over her giving her him a genuine compliment let's say all that's true it feels weird in that context if justin's version is true and that justin had to have this hard conversation where he's like hey the order of choices aren't going well you need to let me be in control and recognizing that like again I'm taking justin'S word for it if that's the conversation and he's like hey uh yeah it's gonna be a tough conversation but he's admitting that she gave him a genuine compliment and he got emotional over it it's just a weird time for that you know what I I mean? Like that feels clueless to me. Like if I'm having to give someone bad news, like if I having to go to essentially an employee and be like, Hey, you kind of messed up this, uh, this thing. I'm going to have to kind of take control over this. Like that's a tough, uncomfortable conversation. And if that employee as part of it was like, yeah, you know, Thomas, you just, you're really good at this whole podcasting thing. And I was like. Thank you so much. You know, it's like, it'S a weird time for that. You know? Like, that's really, I would be like. Well, I appreciate it. It's another example of like, does he recognize why people are saying the things they're saying.

0:15:54 Thomas: You know, like I don't fully trust that he can.

0:15:54 Lydia: It could be that the way I am when I have to have tough conversations. I'm already on edge emotionally. It is hard and I've been in position as a manager and having tough conversations with employees where I can feel like I'm right there on the edge of the cliff emotionally, because it's tough, because It's hard. And I could see that relief coming from an opportunity where it feels like the other person is expressing some more emotional safety. I could See that being the part that allows you to express that feeling that's like pent up, pent up pent up. And it feeling like I m reacting to that compliment, because I was already at the edge from this uncomfortable conversation. I don't know. I could see that happening personally.

0:16:36 Thomas: I don' t know. I'm trying to think. I do n't think that if you were giving bad news to an employee and they paid you a compliment, I just don't think you would sit there and be like, no,

0:16:46 Lydia: Well, because I don'T know that it necessarily is like just, you know, hey, you're a really good manager. I think it could have been that there's conversation back and forth where the compliment is part of that conversation.

0:16:55 Thomas: I think the point I'm making is that would be making it about you at a really weird time. And I don't think you would do that. Like sitting there and being like, he's acknowledging again, it's funny how much this ends up being true. There's never a time where she alleges something and he's like this. Nothing nothing like this even happened because at first he does try to come out strong with a denial like no none of that and he's like well I did I did get emotional it was just kind of interesting to me I just feel like I mean maybe it could have happened the way you're saying but I just don't I know you and I don't think you would make this about you when you know you're in the situation where you as kind of the boss is having to give an employee bad news and I think to then I think it would take a pretty clueless person to then make it about them by tearing up at what they thought was a genuine compliment. Like, I just I just feel like that's really self-involved in a way that you wouldn't do.

0:17:15 Lydia: It's just a different interpretation. Right. Okay. Now I have Blake Lively's original complaint here so we can contrast how she described it. On the second day of filming, for example, Mr. Baldoni made the rest of the cast and crew wait for hours while he cried in Ms. Lively's dressing room, claiming social media commentators were saying that Ms. Lively looked old and unattractive based on paparazzi photos from the set. Ms. Lively tried to reassure him that she should look authentic in the scenes depicted in the photos, which were just after her character had been abused by her fictional husband rather than hot. Mr. Baldoni, however, appeared focused on Ms. Lives' sexual appeal above all else. His lengthy outburst caused a delay in shooting, forcing an emotional scene to be shot haphazardly.

0:18:24 Thomas: Yeah, I think the point I'm making is that isn't it clear from all the information we have here that, again, taking Baldoni at his word, clearly Blake Lively is trying to get her way and he's trying to Get His Way. And fair enough. And in this situation, it might be that Baldoni is right, because it sounds like maybe her costuming went wrong. I don't know. I'm even I'm given granting him all that. It still feels weird for him to take a compliment as a genuine moment for him to be like emotional over a compliment and not as part of this negotiation. Like, doesn't it clearly just seem like it would be part of like, hey, look, you're an amazing director and I get it. You got to make your choice here. But I think like, doesn't seem like you'd be part that. It just doesn't, it doesn't fit for me that he would be getting emotional in this moment over what he perceived as a genuinely compliment. Like this is a confrontation where he has to say, you don't get to do costumes anymore. And she's going to try to say yes I should still do costumes you

0:19:16 Thomas: Know like just seems like that that can't be have been an appropriate response I don't know yeah

0:19:19 Lydia: I just also think that this entire interaction was inappropriate we talked about it in a previous episode too where like the wardrobe supervisor should have been involved in this conversation I don't know why he felt like he's gonna have this conversation one -on -one with blake lively especially if it's feeling emotionally charged for him either through fear of confronting her or whatever the wardrobe supervisors should have Been involved because then that makes it very clear who is making the calls and you have production crew support on that as

0:19:29 Thomas: That's interesting yeah now paragraph 39 I think is maybe a new thing or at least presented in a new way

0:19:57 Lydia: Well as another example early in the pre-production stage lively sent baldoni a long text describing how directors never permitted her to write scenes for the movie she acted in nor gave her writing credits even making her hand scribble her suggestions for lines so that they could not be traced to her lively boasted that she had even written for her husband's movies then lively asked if she could quote, take a pass at writing the rooftop scene in It Ends With Us, in which the characters Ryle and Lily first meet. This pivotal scene, much beloved by book fans, was critical for setting the tone for the movie, so Baldoni was reluctant to allow an actor, rather than a union screenwriter, to rewrite this key scene. But Baldoni felt the need to allow Lively to rewrite the scene and agreed to take a look at what she put together.

0:20:41 Lydia: The draft of the rooftop seen that Lively sent Baldoni dramatically differed from what had been written originally.

0:20:46 Thomas: Yeah it would be weird if she took the trouble and it didn't I'm gonna write this scene it's the same

0:20:50 Lydia: Yeah. Baldoni was hesitant about many of the changes, but thanked Lively for her passion and diplomatically told her that the scene would likely end up being somewhere between the original version and Lively's version. Seemingly stung by Baldoni's exceedingly mild resistance, Lively did not respond and went silent for multiple days. Later, she confirmed in a text message below that Baldoni' response, quote, of course didn't feel great for me or another mega celebrity friend, Taylor Swift, and Ryan Reynolds, to have my passion praised instead of my specific contribution. Lively was referring to an earlier meeting where Lively summoned Baldoni to her New York penthouse, where Baldoni was greeted by Ryan Reynolds, who launched into enthusiastic praise for Lively's version of the scene. Hours later, as the meeting was ending, a famous and famously close friend of Reynolds and Lively, Taylor Swift, walked into the room and similarly began praising Lively script. Baldoni understood the subtext. He needed to comply with Lively direction for the script. Yeah. Yeah.

0:21:44 Thomas: Scene I guess that's one insane way to take it another way to be like all right they're kind of puffing her up you don't take it like it's Tony Soprano sure would be a shame if somebody didn't take into account this amazing script rewrite

0:21:58 Lydia: And then we get the Game of Thrones dragons reference. Yeah.

0:22:00 Thomas: Well hold on I want to go back because in the timeline we've got this in the pipeline so I want to see if that is like you know accurate to how he's representing it and I have to I don't know how to make this so I can fucking read it because it's such bad quality let's see let's read this exchange and keep in mind how he presented this so going back to the beginning lively sent Baldoni

0:22:06 Lydia: Early. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just double

0:22:47 Thomas: A long text describing how directors okay so we don't get at that I don't think he's post that we'll see if it shows up elsewhere in the timeline but I think the timeline's all in order there's no place where we get to see her say that she's boasted about writing for her husband's movies which is weird because again he includes this other stuff so that feels odd to me because it's kind of a shitty thing to say lively boasted that she had even written for her boyfriend's movies but not include that because maybe maybe you're misrepresenting that I know yeah

0:22:48 Lydia: Checking to make sure that we haven't missed that. No.

0:23:19 Thomas: You read this then lively asked if she could quote take a pass at writing the rooftop scene let's read this so justin baldoni says new script coming to you shortly we worked on a lot of the lily and ryle stuff to make it more playful and sparkly parentheses thank you for giving me my new favorite word talk soon blake says so excited to read monday love a sparkle pass I just want to make sure I have that right because like the way he's describing this is weird to me I want to make sure I have everything right before I dig into it do you take any of that to mean she's worked on anything yet yeah me neither so it says new script going to you so this is him as a director sending the actor the script hey hey, here's a script. And she's like, hey, so excited to read Monday. Love a sparkle pass. And then she says, I lied. So excited to get to work on this movie. I can't wait till Monday already reading. My kids are going to kill me. They've had enough of me though, for Christ's sake. The meet cute scene is to me, the most important scene in the movie. Sets the tone and needs to feel extra special. You okay if I play around with some of the dialogue and give her a bit more agency and fun and send to you. It'll affect some of your lines too if I switch out some of hers, but anywhere we can amp their verbal ping pong slash folly, I think we'll be cooking with gas, right? Reel that audience in and make them fall desperately in love with these two. Then when the other shoe drops, ouch, the audience will be devastated. We can use some, all, or none of it. I just don't want to step on any toes, grateful

0:24:11 Lydia: Prayer hands, heart.

0:24:11 Thomas: Hands, heart. Now, why don't you read me now before we go on. Read the next two sentences of how he describes his reaction to this.

0:24:16 Lydia: This pivotal scene, much beloved by book fans, was critical for setting the tone for the movie. So Baldoni was reluctant to allow an actor rather than a union screenwriter to rewrite this key scene. But Baldoni felt the need to allow Lively to rewrite the scene and agreed to take a look at what she put together.

0:24:36 Thomas: Okay, so that's how he described it. Well, I'm reluctant to allow you rather than... Okay, I guess I'll look at what you put together. Let's look at his response in the message I just said. I'll read the message and you read the response. We can use some, all, or none of it. I just don't want to step on any toes.

0:24:47 Lydia: Justin responds, fuck yes.

0:24:55 Thomas: Oh, okay. Well, that's a whole lot different than how I'm reluctant. You said, fuck yes.

0:25:02 Lydia: I know I like trying to zoom in on the time too like did he think about like how quickly he was going to respond

0:25:03 Thomas: What? Yeah, it's four minutes later. I don't know.

0:25:09 Lydia: Four minutes later okay all right all right yeah

0:25:11 Thomas: I mean, it's a long text. I don't think it takes four minutes to read, but he says, fuck. Yes. I couldn't agree more. It's what I tried to do in this last pass and some of what I was hoping we could do together. What?

0:25:20 Lydia: I can only write and play with what I feel is your tone so much

0:25:26 Thomas: He's just lying about this exchange in his own fucking document.

0:25:26 Lydia: I need your help yeah yeah mm

0:25:30 Thomas: I mean, am I fucking crazy? It's his idea, actually. It's what I was hoping We Could Do Together. I can only write and play with what I feel is your tone so much. First scene is most important in film. It's why I'm okay with 10 pages. We rarely get to see that in films anymore. Go play and then we can see how it feels together.

0:25:49 Thomas: And she says, you're the absolute best. Thank you. You and what you did inspired me. Love what we're going to do. He reacted to that or whatever. Okay, next day, she says, I can send you my pass at the roof or just read with you when we get together next week. Let me know what you prefer. If you knew me in person longer, you'd have a sense of how flirty and yummy the ball busting would play. It's my love language, spicy and playfully bold, never with teeth. And him serving it back to her is just as important. You don't usually see both the man and the woman with such agency and humor. Anyway, I an act it out for you next week to make Make sure it comes through or I can send it now. Let me know what you prefer.

0:26:22 Lydia: Yeah, this ball-busting comment like really bothered people because they said like isn't that sexual harassment yeah and they said And never with teeth also really bothered people because they said it implied blowjobs.

0:26:25 Thomas: Why? What? So it's none of that is real. That's fake. Everything's not real. I know it's just stupid.

0:26:38 Lydia: Just sharing what the interwebs have said. Yeah.

0:26:41 Thomas: That's not even worthy of engagement. So fucking stupid. This is her saying this is how she wants to write the scene. And he says, sorry, I was just crying my eyes out as kids and family just left for another five weeks and it was a shit show. And he said, OK, fair enough. Yes. Send. It's so important to the film and can't wait to play and find it. I agree so much.

0:27:13 Thomas: And then she says that photo is devastating. I think it must have been a photo of his family.

0:27:14 Lydia: Here's another example. If you have a problem with Lily being the age that she's being, you have to blame Justin Baldoni for that. Yeah.

0:27:23 Thomas: Well, yes. Yes, and this is him being like, not only yes, but this was my idea. You should definitely write. Let's work together. I want you. Like, this is not a reluctant fucking anything. Anything if he wants to say that in his mind he was reluctant fine but that's not even close you can't even read it into this

0:27:42 Lydia: But then it also shows he's lying straight to her then. If that's what's happening in his mind, he's not even he's

0:27:51 Thomas: He's just lying it would be one thing if there were some ambiguous stuff and I would be all for like well you know you kind of got it - Blake's got to read the room here and see that he's saying well if he was like uh I don't know we've got this uh we've got it's all done already but yeah like I guess if you want to like jot a few things down maybe Maybe what can you know, like anything like that? Yeah.

0:27:58 Lydia: Yeah you could temper it and then we'll meet with Christy the screenwriter you know and see what makes

0:28:10 Thomas: If it was anything like, oh, I got to check on the rules of like, can you write, you know? Like if it's anything, anything likethat, I'd be like, yeah, OK, clearly he's implying even though he's the director, he should just be direct, whatever. But he's implying I would be all on his side in terms of like she's got to read that. There is nothing of that here. It is literally fuck yes is the response.

0:28:21 Lydia: Sense yeah

0:28:31 Thomas: And I was hoping we could. That's what I was helping we could do together. And yes, yes, definitely. Yes, do it. Yes.

0:28:28 Lydia: No no yeah

0:28:39 Thomas: It's crazy. Talk about retconning.

0:28:38 Lydia: Yeah I know yeah yeah

0:28:43 Thomas: So then it says April 9th. So that's a couple days later. Lively shares her notes on the rooftop scene. And isn't it interesting that it's notes in the complaint? This is, this is the same thing. So we're reading the complaint and we're reading the timeline filed with the complaint. The complaint says she did a draft and it was a whole different scene .And then the timeline says she shared her notes on the rooftops. That was a different things. I think lively shares her her notes on the roof. Sorry, reading from the timeline. Lively shares her notes on the rooftop scene with Baldoni and follows up with a text eagerly awaiting his thoughts. Baldoni responds via voice note, expressing his appreciation for her passion and edits. While he likes her changes, he envisions the final version landing somewhere between her take and the original. Now, we don't get any of that.

0:29:26 Thomas: Isn't it weird that he put all that last conversation in, but he won't put any of that in. He doesn't take a transcript of the voice note.

0:29:31 Lydia: He doesn't transcribe it or anything yeah

0:29:33 Thomas: He doesn't send any. He just posts her text. Happy Easter. What did you think of the pages. And that's it. And he characterizes the exchange in his words. Isn't it weird that he's not showing us that? Normally I'd say like, yeah, you don't have to show us, except you just showed us before that what the conversation was. I wonder why you're not showing US this one.

0:29:38 Lydia: Yeah and it's being totally misrepresented in the complaint we showed the differences there

0:29:54 Thomas: Yeah. Especially when in the complaint, you're going to make her sound like an asshole. Like you have to share. You don't get to do that because in the complainant to remind you what Lydia read us a second ago. Now he says the draft of the rooftop scene dramatically differed. Baldoni was hesitant about many of the changes, but thanked lively for her passion and diplomatically told her that the scene would likely end up being somewhere between the original version and Lively's version. We don't have any of that. We don'T see any of THAT. We DON'T see the pages. We DON't see the anything. We DONT... None of that, but he makes it out to be that she seemingly stung by Baldoni's exceedingly mild... Exceedingly mild resistance. Why didn't you show us what it was? Isn't that weird? You gave us all the other conversation, but now that it's something that you're making her out to being insane over, you're not going to show us WHAT it is? We'll just take your fucking word for it? Stung by Baldoni's exceedingly mild resistance. Lively did not respond. Okay. Why not show us that? Isn't that weird? Like, cause maybe what he actually did was be an asshole. I don't know. I don'T know. It's weird to make that the crux of a point you're making. And you clearly have the texts before that, but you won't show us this. Very suspicious to me.

0:31:04 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:31:04 Thomas: Later, she confirmed parentheses in a text message below that Baldoni response quote, of course, didn't feel great for me. Or I guess you're saying it's Taylor Swift to have my passion praised instead of my specific contribution. And it's like, I would love to evaluate this, but I don't know what the contribution was. I don'T know how he responded to it. And I don' like, maybe she's in the wrong here, but. I'm just very suspicious that he didn't show us any of that. And we're just supposed to take his word for it. Then he also, again, says later, after he says that thing about, you know, Tony Soprano saying, gee, it sure would be a shame if whatever. Later, Baldoni felt obliged to text Lively to say that he had liked her pages and hadn't needed Reynolds and her mega celebrity friend to pressure him lively responded that the two were her quote dragons lively went on to say so it's skipping a lot of this stuff do we get the full thing in the timeline I think but

0:31:51 Lydia: We get the full thing it's on page thirteen sets up on page 12. Yeah, because in between, she's sick and wants to speak to his health coach.

0:31:54 Thomas: That's way later though oh okay but in the complaint we get just a snippet of this giant exchange which is they reynolds and taylor swift I guess also know I'm not always good at making sure I'm seen and utilized for fear of threatening egos or fear of affecting the ease of the process they don't give give a shit about that. Bold, italics. And because of that, everyone listens to them with immense respect and enthusiasm. So I guess I have to stop worrying about people liking me. I don't, parentheses, I don's know emoji, emphasis added. Oh, okay. Sure. So just making

0:32:25 Lydia: The I don't know emoji. It's like the shruggy, the shrub person. Yeah.

0:32:31 Thomas: Sure to add the emojis. Okay. The message could not have been clearer. Baldoni was not just dealing with Lively. He was also facing Lively's dragons, two of the most influential and wealthy celebrities in the world who are not afraid to make things very difficult for him. What? What did that?

0:32:45 Lydia: Yeah?

0:32:45 Thomas: That, oh, so this is, this is also such bullshit. So I'm still just on the complaint here before, because the timeline has like a massive exchange that we're going to look through. But before we do that, he just gets to retcon whatever he wants. Because he says, again, he makes it out to be like a mafia -esque thing. Baldoni understood the subtext he needed to comply with Lively's direction for the script. And then he says later Baldoni felt obliged to text Lively to say that he liked her pages and hadn't needed Reynolds or her mega celebrity friend to pressure him. That's his version of it.

0:33:17 Thomas: The actual text in his own complaint just below that says, Great.

0:33:17 Lydia: The next page. Yeah.

0:33:21 Thomas: Also was working on rooftop scene today. I really love what you did. It really does help a lot. Makes it so much more fun and interesting. Parentheses. And I would have felt that way without Ryan and Taylor. Winky face. You really are a talent across the board. Really excited and grateful to do this together. What? Does that sound like, hey, I didn't need to be pressured by your mega celebrity friends. Like, I guess you could argue that he was thinking that, but I would read that if I were Blake I would read that as him being like oh maybe like oh I didn't need their encouragement and maybe him and I think this is how she did read it maybe he's saying hey you don't need to like get your friends to kind of like make those arguments too yeah like I would have felt that way but there's none of the sinister like oh the implication was clear cooperate or else like none of that is in there that's that's nothing it just feels so retconned to me and it's in his own complaint I think in the previous ones he's just retconning it he wasn't thinking that because there's no no indication. In this, I'll grant that he does say parenthetically, and I would have felt that way without Ryan and Taylor. Oh, it's in the... Wait, they didn't... Oh, that's

0:33:57 Lydia: Hype you up. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah they didn't redact her name. That's why we know the mega celebrity friend is Taylor Swift. Yeah.

0:34:25 Thomas: So funny. And that's in The Complaint, not even in the timeline.

0:34:30 Thomas: So resetting, the way he's describing this interaction is a shakedown. I'm not even exaggerating. The message could not have been clearer. Baldoni was not just dealing with Lively. He was also facing Lively's dragons, two of the most influential and wealthy celebrities in the world who are not afraid aid to make things very difficult for him. What?

0:34:47 Lydia: Yeah.

0:34:47 Thomas: So let's what evidence of that's a yeah, that's a major thing. What evidence is there that they're going to make life difficult for them? That's a pretty big claim. Well, we've got the full exchange in the timeline. I think maybe you and I should just do some acting. Oh, OK.

0:34:48 Lydia: Or he's going to be at the bottom of the Hudson with the fishes.

0:35:02 Lydia: Yeah I'll read Blake, you read Justin, and wish us luck everybody because some of these things are very blurry.

0:35:09 Thomas: Oh my God, it's so blurry.

0:35:11 Lydia: All right so Blake kicks us off. I took a look at Jenny scenes. Jenny being Jenny Bloom, the mother character, not Jenny Slate. It's always different when you read with yourself in mind as the character. I see why a higher caliber of talent isn't working out. It doesn't feel like Jenny has a point of view. If she's going to care so much but what's on the surface or appearances, we have to at minimum see what's underneath. We need to see where that comes from. Or if we don't have the runway, we need to give her more faceted depth in what we do see of her. I also think we're missing an opportunity to see more of Lily and her mother and vice versa. It would help make the characters pop and feel indelible. Anywhere we can undercut all the drama with irony, effervescent characters, and unexpectedness, our movie will sing. I think it's a quick pass that doesn't add page count I'm happy to take a run at it if you send me the script via fdx I can also play with anything else that needs a little magic to help fast track some of the conversations and rehearsals or if you prefer I stand down please let me know

0:36:04 Thomas: That's interesting. Or if you prefer If I stand down, please let me know.

0:36:07 Lydia: Yeah

0:36:07 Thomas: That seems, yeah, okay. So how do you respond? Hi, on with no more. Our domestic violence partner on this film. Respond shortly. Then I think you're exactly right. So well said. Happy for you to take a pass. Love what you did on the rooftop, but out of respect, we will want to run it back by Christy once done and get her eyes on it slash further tweaks to make sure her voice remains. I just canceled my next meeting and have an hour. Or do you want to hop on Zoom and we can jump into final draft together and collab in real time? And then he sends it like a picture or something. No, because he says, hope this makes you smile. And then it's like a like a photo of you. Like a picture of his kids or something,

0:36:38 Lydia: And then a zoom meeting link I think oh yeah yeah blake responds cute nailed her dolly so fun sorry I missed your text earlier and then we go over to the right instead of down if you you send me the fdx I'll work when I can steal moments and yes of course please send to blank which is I'm guessing christy that wasn't redacted earlier and why is it redactED it's a screenwriter we're all on the same team with the same

0:37:02 Thomas: Very weird. Great, also was working on rooftop scene today. I really love what you did. Wait, didn't he already say that? But it's a different, okay. I really loved what you said. It really helps a lot. Makes it so much more fun and interesting. Thing and I would have felt that way without ryan and taylor you really are a talent across the board really excited and grateful to do this together and then we get a long slittiest big moment

0:37:13 Lydia: Goal yeah yeah okay no bear with me folks that's very appreciated and means a lot I'm deeply inspired by the film we're going to make outside of the success of this book we have such an opportunity to not only surprise people who love the book but reach an even bigger audience by making an undeniably dynamic and also commercial film. The moment that excited me most the other day was when you said, you're not funny. You are going to kill that rooftop scene. You know it, I'm sure. Even though it was said in playful self -deprecation that we all participate in, it made me think of the process as a whole. Please know I trust that on the day you've got me, and I hope that you trust that I've got you if you want it. We're in this together, and we are two of the most determined people I know. We also have very high bars set for ourselves. To collaborate with that type of partner is a gift that neither of us will squander because we both care too much about the result and also the experience. I have no motives except for you to win. As a director, as an actor, as a studio, as a writer, if you win, I win. If you win our movie wins. We are aligned and I will bring everything I have to this. As for Taylor, it's redacted, and Ryan, and blank for

0:38:37 Lydia: That matter, I don't know who that is. I'm the luckiest motherfucker on the planet to have them as my dance moms level stage moms. They are embarrassingly effusive. That said, they're also my most trusted partners and the people I go to first with anything creative I touch. And I'm The Person They Each Go To First. That reciprocal creativity and support has been one of my life's greatest and most fulfilling gifts. When they loved and signed off on the pages, I felt good to send them to you. They asked what you thought specifically after. They checked in so many times. I told them that you laughed a bunch and said it's probably a blend, but you appreciate my passion so much, which of course didn't feel great for me or them to have my passion be praised instead of any specific contribution, or even just that you didn't like the pages, which was fine also. So I think they wanted you and me to see how they felt about the work because they've been by my side for far too many experiences where I've been overlooked. I spoke to you about this when we first met. They've watched me handwrite scripts because the director is too afraid to send the fdx file yet he scans and has someone hand type all 120 pages of my pencil rewrites they've watched me be hired as a writer and paid a significant fee for it but on the condition that I never ask for credit which I could give a shit about it's more the principle of the dynamics at play they've watched the other side of it too where I'm told it's signing on that I'm wanted as a true collaborator but once we get to work I'm really just wanted as I quote yes man audience and actor both blank Blank and Blank have established themselves as absolute titans as writers and storytellers outside of their primary gig, just singing or just acting or Blank just directing. Oh, maybe it's the Deadpool director. I'm so lucky to have them as creative barometers, but also to have them as the people who prop me up and make sure I'm seen for all I can and do offer because they know firsthand all I contribute. They also know I'm not always as good at making sure I am seen and utilized for fear of threatening egos or fear of affecting the ease of the process. Us. They don't give a shit about that. And because of that, everyone listens to them with immense respect and enthusiasm. So I guess I have to stop worrying about people liking me. If you ever get around to watching Game of Thrones, you'll appreciate that I'm Khaleesi, and like her, I happen to have a few dragons. For better or worse, but usually for better, because my dragons also protect those I fight for. So really, we all benefit from those gorgeous monsters of mine. You will too, I can promise you.

0:40:47 Thomas: Yeah so that's the dragons thing yeah it's kind of cringy I'm not a huge fan of it

0:40:51 Lydia: Yeah, as a Hollywood actor, ego, like, bleh.

0:40:54 Thomas: That's someone you're talking to being a little okay well but like here's one thing I'm realizing reading this let me make sure I get this straight correct me if I'm wrong we've got christy something writing the script right but baldoni seems to be co -writing or something because it always seems like from the context here that's like all right we've got we've worked this you know we've we've we've so he who's not also not a writer and is not credited he seems to Be like final say like right it's kind of what it seems like to me it's like we've Got Christy but he'll be like we're working on it we've

0:40:55 Lydia: Yeah. A little little extra yeah christy hall yeah not credited with writing no

0:41:28 Thomas: This we've whatever am I crazy like he's not the writer he's Not credited as the writer is it

0:41:33 Lydia: I I do think I think some of that's appropriate as a director right I think so I don't know that directors necessarily like are involved in the writing itself but I think they could say hey this scene isn't

0:41:44 Thomas: Yeah but that's not what's happening here this strikes me as like he's a writer like this is this there's no filming here we're not even close I think what you're describing is what makes sense is you're filming and the director's like boy this isn't working give me a rewrite or maybe we can play with some lines this is they're working out the script and he seems to be and look I'm not talking about this from a rules perspective or a credit perspective or an union I don't know anything about that I'm just talking about what would Blake feel like right now and I think there's There's this unquestioned sense that a lot of people have that like, well, it's valid that Justin Baldoni is working on his script. Who is this person coming

0:41:46 Lydia: Working yeah yeah

0:42:21 Thomas: In and barging in? Justin Baldani is not a fucking writer. He has no experience. He has so much less experience than Blake Lively and fucking Ryan Reynolds and Taylor Swift in terms of art. So here's this person, Blake Latively, with these genuinely talented, you know, Taylor Swift. I hear people like her quite a bit. She's genuinely, if you wanted to be like a name dropper, she's like the name you would drop. I don't blame Blake for being like, who the fuck is Justin Baldoni to be having final say on this script? Like, what even is that? You know, it's like, I would probably be this same way if I were in an equivalent situation. You know? Like if I'm doing a podcast and I'm going to collaborate with someone on like a new podcast and they've done like two years of podcasting and they're like, all right, well, Well, I've got, I'm with this person and we're working on the podcast and you know, uh, yeah, you can give me your notes, I guess. And it's like, if I felt like that person wasn't doing a great job, it would be hard to resist the temptation to be like, Hey, me and fucking Joe Rogan over here, you

0:43:19 Thomas: Know me and the top podcaster of the world. Yeah. Yeah. Me and Mark, Mark was saying that my ideas were pretty good and maybe you should fucking you. Nobody should listen to my ideas. Like, honestly, yeah. It's a little bit egotistical, but like, is that unearned for Blake?

0:43:19 Lydia: Mark maron yeah I think it's also because he didn't offer specific feedback he thanked her for her passion which is such a fuck you that feels it's hollow it's like he didn't even read it like that's what that reads like to me if he had responded and said like oh I really love um what you did with this particular line let's run it by christy see what she thinks and incorporate there I don't think you would have gotten any of this

0:43:40 Thomas: Like, yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's not dignifying her as a contributor. That really is. That really isthe key. Because if you look at that one spot where she says, or even if you didn't like it, like she just wants to be treated as some sort of equal here. And so give her the dignity of saying what she like. She took a lot of time on this and she ran it by again. Like, I don't fucking blame her. I think the dragons thing is a little cringe. But in terms of being like, imagine if I was like, hey, I had a rewrite for the podcast script. You know I'm trying to think who's the fucking newbie to podcast that could be our example lydia let's say lydia's in show we're not married and you're just like in charge of this project and I'm like hey I've been doing this a while could I help you you know like timeline wise that's pretty equivalent like baldonia has not fucking done anything he's done a little bit of work right and blake lively's been in this business a long ass time right and if I were like hey lydia I've got my friends mark maron and the

0:44:34 Lydia: I'm just green yeah yeah yeah yes and she was 15 yeah

0:44:53 Thomas: Daily or something you know just two of the biggest like like literally the biggest people. And I'm like, hey, I've done, not even like I'm taking over the whole thing. I'm just like, hey, there's this scene that's important. There's this podcast episode that's important. I've run it by fucking Albert Einstein and Barack Obama. And they're like, yeah, that's good. And then Lydia was like, I love your passion.

0:45:14 Thomas: Yeah, I'd be like, Albert Einstein and Barack Obama were like, that's kind of fucking dismissive.

0:45:18 Lydia: Yeah well it's it's treating it like you just handed a demo tape and you're a nobody off the street and like like it's just it's dismissive is a great word for

0:45:27 Thomas: A hundred percent. What bothers me so much about this whole interaction is the bias people don't realize they have when they just see, well, director, man, actor, he's in charge. And he, what he says, he doesn't have any fucking experience. He has no experience .He's done a couple of documentaries, right? I mean, like he has not written and directed a fictional thing before this, right. A movie.

0:45:45 Lydia: It yeah I mean yeah it's like a you know based on a real story type of films but that no no cloud clouds is a film yeah sabrina Carpenter's in it

0:45:49 Thomas: Oh, I thought it was a documentary. Oh it's a film. Oh okay. Oh fair enough. So he's done that. Sure. Okay. He's got one credit. He got one. Yeah. I'm not saying he doesn' get to be in charge of his thing. Sure, but I think people have a real sexism bias in that they look at him as the male authority figure who gets to be in charge of everything. And I think when you sign on Blake Lively to your project and she expresses at the outset that she wants to contribute and her friends, Ryan Reynolds is a pretty fucking successful actor, direct writer, you know, like Taylor Swift, that's a big

0:46:13 Lydia: And you've given her every indication to say that's okay yeah they're all business savvy yeah

0:46:26 Thomas: Goddamn names and you're wanting to contribute. And you're like, Hey, they think like, again, we don't see this, but maybe the way it was kind of sucked. Like maybe Blake's like, Oh, this writing is bad Because for some reason, Justin fucking Baldoni is in charge of it. I think this is totally valid of Blake. And at the very least, she's asking to be taken seriously and not to be like, oh, good passion.

0:46:48 Lydia: Yeah do you think if she didn't do the Khaleesi part of this I don't know that it necessarily means that people would have interpreted it more charitably like but I yeah

0:46:51 Thomas: Probably would have interpreted it more charitably. But yeah, yeah.

0:46:58 Lydia: I just feel like that piece everyone just really focuses in on that specific you know couple of sentences whereas the entire I mean the entire thing I read was her being like we're on the same team and explaining why Taylor and Ryan were involved in it and sort of her experiences leading up to that and like why she feels leaning on them is helpful for her and also like maybe she needs to stop caring so much about what people think and just express herself completely because they both feel empowered to do that and she should do that too that's such a different thing but then And everyone just decided to look at this Khaleesi thing and just talk about Khaleesie.

0:47:34 Thomas: And they never criticize how much Justin's just lying. Like we've already pointed out that he gets to say, well, I was hesitant. And then his message is, fuck, yes. Like you come. Sorry. If that was Blake, can you imagine if Blake Lively had been like well, I hated it I didn't want to be with him. I don't want be around him and then the message is fuck Yes, they would rip her apart their ripper to shreds But he gets to just lie with impunity because people aren't gonna question the man ever Oh, that was the other thing I was gonna say in the next messages. We get messages from fucking Jamie Heath, too So we get two unqualified dingus is being like this Blake lively, huh? And it's fucking Justin Baldoni Jamie. What the fuck do they know was Jamie Heath? Heath, no, he has no experience in this. He was like a, like a songwriter or something.

0:48:19 Lydia: Yeah. No, they're just being misogynist. They're the men and so they know. Yeah.

0:48:23 Thomas: Yeah, he was a musician and not like a Taylor Swift musician. Like, yeah, Jamie Heath has this fucking army of fans that are like everything he writes. But I still want to say, if you are Justin Baldoni in this moment, you have every right to say all right, fucking my money, my movie, my company, my whatever. Fine.

0:48:26 Lydia: You haven't heard the albums, the Jamie Heath eras? Yeah. All of his eras. Yeah.

0:48:42 Thomas: I would think you were kind of an asshole, but like, I'd also get it. Like, I would also get the other way. If he was like, hey, cool, but I'm in charge here. I'm going to whatever. This is on him to manage this relationship. And what he is doing is completely either, either he's retconning this. And I think that's actually what it is. I think he's mostly retconing this. I think you was fine with this all along. I think made the one comment about like, Hey, I didn't really need them. And fair, like that's a fair comment, but I think retcon this to be like, I was fucking murdered and they threatened me with a wrench and we're going to beat me up. Like, I think it's just retcon all that.

0:49:12 Thomas: I don't think that. That's real. I think this is up for him to manage in his way if he wanted to say, hey, yeah, you're right, and manage this differently. And for all we see here, it seems like they got through it. It seems like he said, oh, yeah. Here, let me give you some more specific notes. And they kind of moved on, right? I mean, yeah

0:49:29 Lydia: I do think that there probably are examples where he's not good at being direct and honest with Blake for whatever reason. We do see examples of that.

0:49:36 Thomas: Or he's retconning. I do think it's important to say he might have been totally retconing it.

0:49:42 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think depending on the interaction and also it could be both to some degree. But what I think is clear, no matter what, is that he struggled in this role, obviously.

0:49:52 Thomas: Yeah, he's not a good leader because he has to have everyone be happy with him all the time. So he's one of those fake people.

0:49:56 Lydia: Yeah. He has to be the good guy all the time and can't deliver bad news.

0:50:00 Thomas: Yeah but I will say if none of this ever happened and this was a story of how he managed Blake in this moment, it wouldn't have been that bad because he did push back. Hey, I didn't need Taylor and Ryan. Fine. I think that's fine. Push back a little bit. And he said, hey, we got to run it by Christy. Fine, so I think what this was was pretty much fine. And then he retcons it into being a murder because he needs a story. And his story is they strong armed me out of control of my entire thing.

0:50:25 Thomas: And I just don't, I don't find it valid. I thing it's bullshit. Either that or he's just plain lying to her face and you can't hold her accountable for that. You're just fucking, fuck yes is your response. And that's supposed to mean fuck no. No, that doesn't work. But yeah, to your point about the Khaleesi, like I'm trying to think here. These people are Hollywood celebrities. They're, yeah, they're all going to be a fucking, a little, you know, it's a bit narcissistic, you Know?

0:50:48 Lydia: Yep.

0:50:49 Thomas: Like that's kind of weird. I think that's a, that's bit of a narcissistic worldview.

0:50:52 Lydia: Yeah I would I would never send a text message like that in my life yeah

0:50:56 Thomas: I see it as on par with pretty much everything else going on here. You know, doesn't really.

0:51:00 Lydia: And also also I don't think it gets to then detract from everything she's written previously either like that doesn't get to be the one sentence that you walk away from remembering unfortunately that's what happened

0:51:20 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:51:20 Thomas: So then he responds, hi, wow, wow. Wow, wow. Thank you for writing this. I have so much to say. I'm so sorry for the slow response. I gave a talk tonight to a bunch of Bahai youth in the city and your message came through while I was there and haven't had a second to respond. Going to send you a voice note when I get out of the Uber. Hope this doesn't wake you.

0:51:35 Lydia: So then we get a voice memo

0:51:38 Thomas: I think this gives us a chance to take a break here because we're 10% through this

0:51:44 Lydia: Oh my god we're gonna be doing this for like

0:51:46 Thomas: For the rest of our lives. But this voice memo was actually released before this amended complaint. Is that right?

0:51:46 Lydia: Six months yeah yeah this voice memo came out january 27th

0:51:57 Thomas: And reminder, the first complaint came out January 16th and this one we're reading is January 31st. So that means this voice memo came out similar to the rooftop video in the interim there. And I think we should take the opportunity, not only because it's relevant to this and it doesn't give us the text in this complaint, doesn't get us the transcription. Why don't we break from this complaint, do a one-off episode? Yeah.

0:52:01 Lydia: January 16th yep

0:52:22 Thomas: Let's talk about this voice memo. Cause we have some fucking thoughts and we could actually hear audio and we can talk about some of the reaction to it.

0:52:20 Lydia: Stand alone yeah oh god and then also if people don't want to hear his voice memo they can skip a whole episode yeah

0:52:32 Thomas: Well, we'll talk about it. But yeah, we'll give the appropriate trigger warnings. I think that's what we should do. So, all right. Well, I don't know what this edited down to, but in real time, this was about four to five months and we're 10% done.

0:52:45 Thomas: So in three and a half years, we should be done with this. Yeah. But we got to do it and I'm enjoying it. So hopefully the rest of it goes faster, but I'm excited to get to this voice memo episode because that'll be fun. That'll be fine.

0:52:45 Lydia: I have gray hair now

0:52:58 Thomas: All right. Well, that's all we'll do. See everyone later.

0:52:56 Lydia: Yeah see ya

0:53:23 Thomas: I guess that's one insane way to take it.