DOD230: It's All About the Motion of the Ocean

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast whose episode today is 269. Nice.

0:00:34 Eli: Nice! 6 -9, 6 -7, 6, 7.

0:00:43 Tom: I'm Tom Curry, joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen. Hey, hey. So I had to call, I had actually text, we did, I, I did

0:00:49 Eli: Yeah, 69. I feel like we glossed over 69.

0:00:55 Tom: Text, speaking of 69, though, I had to text Eli the other day. I'm like, my fucking kids are walking around saying 6

0:01:00 Thomas: What is this gonna be? Okay, thank God.

0:01:00 Tom: -7, not 67, seven, but six, seven.

0:01:03 Eli: 6 - 7. Yeah.

0:01:03 Thomas: I was very worried. That's, that's funny.

0:01:03 Tom: And then they fucking laugh to themselves like it's a thing. And then they won't tell me what the fuck it is. And I fucking texted Eli's like, it's just 69. I'm like, God damn, that's stupid. Jesus fucking Christ. This is so stupid.

0:01:15 Thomas: I like it. I liked it.

0:01:16 Eli: I love the generational divide because like, we understand why 69 is funny, but we're like, 67 doesn't make any fucking sense.

0:01:25 Tom: But that's it.

0:01:25 Eli: Like, it's such a perfect encapsulation of like, like no because the two heads are performing cunnilingus on each other seven's not performing it's not sucking off a six yeah

0:01:33 Thomas: That's funny Oh, I thought they were just playing like it was meant something, but it didn't. You're saying they actually changed it?

0:01:39 Eli: No they changed 69 to six seven yeah

0:01:39 Thomas: They tried to do a conversion? Like the gen - a generational conversion?

0:01:41 Tom: But not even to 67 to six, 7. Yeah.

0:01:44 Eli: Six seven you're taking it wrong yeah six six seven saying it wrong nope

0:01:46 Thomas: 6 -7? Is it from a video or something? Why are they all doing it like that?

0:01:46 Tom: And they say it like that. Yeah, right. Right.

0:01:51 Tom: Thomas, nothing's from anything. You're looking, you're doing the wrong thing where you're looking for a comedic reference yeah

0:01:55 Thomas: Eli just had a specific way he was doing it. I don't know what that what's that from then. Oh, wow. Never mind. I'm on Tom's side of this one.

0:02:00 Eli: That's the way they say I don't know it's been culture now it's a thing so the difference is we had cultural touch points but they have social media right so we were like this quote that everyone is saying is from anchorman this quote that everyone says is from borat and they're like a tiktok said this and then one million other tiktoks said this so now we all say that but there's not like one unified point of culture

0:02:04 Tom: Thank you right

0:02:05 Thomas: This sucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:02:28 Tom: Yeah as an old it's fucking maddening like I'll just say like as an older like jesus this doesn't fucking connect to anything like even if you like ask them where like if you ask me where the fucking borat quote came from I'd be like it came from borat I could point at it

0:02:43 Eli: Six seven

0:02:44 Thomas: I for sure had the most embarrassing thing that you can have as a kid, which is I never knew what people were talking about and pretended I did and then got caught, which is the worst.

0:02:55 Eli: Oh that's the

0:02:57 Tom: This is my whole life right now thomas

0:02:57 Eli: Worst oh that'S yeah no the

0:02:57 Thomas: That was bad. No, but you're not a kid. So it doesn't fucking matter. This was, uh, this was bad?

0:03:02 Tom: That's true that is true that is true

0:03:03 Eli: And can I say there was nothing I loved more more than being the person who pointed that out when I was young

0:03:07 Thomas: Yeah, it probably was. Eli was a version of Eli.

0:03:09 Eli: Is to just turn to them and be like, Hey, what's that quote from? And they'd be like. You know, you proved to me, you know, but

0:03:18 Tom: I fucking hated you

0:03:20 Thomas: There was an extended that, that went on for sure. I went through all the BSing methods that you can do. You don't know it. Yeah, no, I mainly was just like, yeah, you know.

0:03:28 Eli: I also am aware of how bad a liar you are and how much you don't lie. Stop. Shut up. Good times. But gentlemen, do you know the only thing worse than the two and a half months Southern California me put Southern California baby Thomas through that why it's the auto ants the six seven of your podcasting experience you don't understand it you don't enjoy it you want it to go away head over to patreon .com forward slash to your old dads you'll get a commercial free version of every single show you get a little parenting story about Haley on last week's episode you can find all of that for as little as a dollar over at patreon. Com forward slash D and D minus.

0:03:36 Tom: Yeah it's about something

0:03:58 Thomas: Six seven what the fuck is it because no dnd you did it again dude what that's like the show you do the least

0:04:21 Eli: Dear old dance. Dear old dancing. It's because I say the thing on two shows.

0:04:22 Tom: Yeah dear old

0:04:22 Thomas: Too why would you do dnd minus

0:04:25 Eli: I don't say it on the other ones. I just say, dear old dance, yeah, rip into it.

0:04:27 Tom: Dads

0:04:27 Thomas: That's fair and this show and dnd D -Mind is really the same show like it's just so similar

0:04:34 Eli: Yeah, exactly. Six, seven. Nope.

0:04:34 Tom: Yeah what's different about them six seven

0:04:36 Thomas: Question is it because the seven is more like just a guy with a dick and the six is more ladylike

0:04:41 Tom: No why are you looking for meaning that's the that's the problem no it's not it's look the reason is because it's a it's because it's not 69 no

0:04:43 Thomas: No there is a reason yeah

0:04:47 Eli: Guys, guys, we're living Thomas' life in microcosm right now. No, there's a reason. People are motivated by things and they have reason.

0:04:52 Thomas: Tom why would I take your word for what this is you don't have any fucking idea

0:04:59 Tom: I figured it out though the reason it's funny is because it's not 69

0:05:02 Eli: Six

0:04:59 Thomas: Oh don't did you okay that's how I took it the first time and I thought that would then Eli had me going the other

0:05:07 Eli: Seven

0:05:08 Tom: That just fuck that's not why something is funny I don't know I can't

0:05:12 Eli: Six seven

0:05:13 Thomas: Way okay well then I that's now I'm because that's How I took It initially I was like oh they're just saying it as though, and I was like, that's kind of funny. And then Eli said some shit about something that made me think the other way. God damn it, Eli. Yeah, no, you're right.

0:05:24 Tom: Yeah but Eli lies all the time you weave a tale

0:05:26 Eli: I don't lie all the time a weaver I'm a weaver and a

0:05:30 Tom: You weave a got it I fucking hate that shit.

0:05:32 Eli: Weave I'm not constrained by your limitations tom six

0:05:44 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:05:46 Tom: All right. So I read an article that I don't want to get too deep into for this episode, but it made me think about something that I wanted to talk to you guys about. And that is the idea of toxic male adequacy and specifically sexual adequacy. And the way that like male sexual adequency is sort of like weaponized.

0:05:57 Thomas: I'm so sexually adequate. It's toxic to you. Is that what you're saying? Like it's, it's dangerous to be around.

0:06:07 Eli: Seven

0:06:09 Tom: Right. So there's a couple of articles that I read that I thought were really interesting. So there was one about, it was like an advice column article, right? Right. And so this lady wrote in and she's like, yeah, my boyfriend, who is perfectly good at sex and has a perfectly normal sized dick, is absolutely convinced that he's got a small dick and he's bad at sex. And I have to constantly be reassuring him of these things. Right. And then I read a really interesting and really fucking dark long form article not that long ago about the sort of rise about the rise of. And it's kind of a shadow thing that happens of penile implants and like how fucking horrible these things are because the science isn't there. The medicine is no good. These are like horrible disfiguring operations very, very often. And like, it's all kind of happening sort of like underground.

0:06:39 Eli: That I sent

0:06:59 Thomas: That's why Elon can't fuck. That's what I heard. Yeah.

0:07:01 Tom: Wait, really?

0:07:02 Thomas: That's why all his kids are from artificial insemination. I've heard it's because, okay, this might be an Eli, but I, from what I've heard, this is like slightly more than an Eli button. I wouldn't like swear on it, but I've heard that the reason he can't fuck is because of a botched penile implant. That's what I've heard.

0:07:05 Tom: Wait, I had no idea. This is like one of those things we were just talking about. Like, Rick, what?

0:07:11 Eli: Him yep a weever weave what's

0:07:21 Tom: Really? Yeah.

0:07:22 Thomas: There's some amount of like agreement on this, but not, you know, it is true. Yeah, exactly.

0:07:26 Eli: Nice about it is even if it's not true it deserves to be true

0:07:30 Thomas: Even if it's not true, it is a botch.

0:07:32 Tom: If anybody in the world deserves a botched penile implant

0:07:36 Thomas: Yes, that dude is a botched penis implant.

0:07:36 Tom: It's elon musk like for sure yeah but

0:07:38 Eli: I think that would be my first two wishes for Magini. Yeah, no, and

0:07:42 Thomas: Two for both his penises. Just wanted to make sure. I want him to have a a bunch of penile implant. I wish that that wish definitely happened. I'm imagining. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck it. I mean, whatever. I don't need any, I don' t need much

0:07:47 Eli: I wish that that went exactly the way. I just want to make sure it didn't, like, mess up eventually. You know, let's throw the third wish in there, too. Let's really lock this bad boy in.

0:07:57 Tom: Like you know there are all the cultural reference that I want to just kind of bring up as a springboard for the conversation right so you know you'll see like a big fucking truck that's rolling coal and like what's the joke the joke is like that guy's got to be compensating for something right so that's a joke about male sexual adequacy and there are a thousand other examples that you can think of off the top of your head I don't need to go through them all right but like it's the idea like if somebody is good at something they fuck if somebody is like overcompensating for something they've got a small dick or they're bad in bed or they can't make a woman come or whatever right yeah like it all built into the same sort of toxic messaging that really says to men specifically your sexual Sexual performance and sexual skill and sexual physical adequacy is a stand -in for your manliness and is also a stand in for your own security.

0:08:30 Eli: They don't fuck.

0:08:50 Thomas: Your worth.

0:08:51 Tom: Right. Yeah. Well, and specifically, I'm insecure. That's why I have this big truck. Well what are you insecure about? Well, I've been secure about my place in the world. Nah, you're insecure about your sexual adequacy. It's a stand. It's a one to one stand in. And we have all these sort of jokes that we tell culturally that build and reinforce that that boys and young men and sort of, you know, grow up into and build their sort of sense of self hearing all of that stuff. And I thought it was really interesting. And especially when I read this article about these penile implants and like these dudes that are going and like seriously, like this article is so fucking dark because like these implants don't work and they're just absolutely disfiguring and like damaging. Imaging. Yeah.

0:09:34 Thomas: Yeah, but RFK assured me that the sign, yeah, they

0:09:37 Tom: And there's no shortage of people lining up to get these things. Right. Even though like women time and time again are like, yeah, we're not real worried about this. This is not like dick size is not particularly important. They don't give a shit.

0:09:48 Thomas: Really don't care that much.

0:09:51 Eli: That's the crazy thing, right? I mean, I'm sure there are some examples out there where you can find women saying the opposite, but, like the universally agreed upon position from women is what makes good lovers is like attention and gentleness and care and communication and men are like no it's hogs you want big meaty uncomfortable hogs no we actually don't want that I'm telling you right you want Big Meaty Hogs yeah

0:10:07 Tom: Yeah, man. Yeah well

0:10:10 Thomas: And if the girls who do want bigger it's not 10 fucking inches it's like oh yeah if it was it's you know if it's a little big it's Not they're not wanting like what men think of is like no you gotta have that foot long fucking thing you know yeah

0:10:29 Tom: And porn has absolutely informed an entire generation now two generations porn has influenced

0:10:32 Eli: It's been way more than

0:10:36 Tom: At least two generations yeah

0:10:37 Thomas: I was gonna say is it only widespread use

0:10:37 Eli: Two generations tom I don't know I got some nickelodeon videos to show you

0:10:39 Thomas: I've got some old French videos from the 1912 you know

0:10:40 Tom: Well yeah I like I know it's not invented recently but like the the rise of it and the yeah so So.

0:10:47 Thomas: Whatever yeah

0:10:50 Eli: You see how big that is? See how big that is, Tom? Yeah, exactly.

0:10:51 Thomas: Yeah and then and then the piano. Did they have the piano player playing for the porn?

0:10:59 Eli: But just with one hand.

0:11:00 Thomas: They had to play the old timey ragtime bow chicka bow wow, like for the piano though.

0:11:06 Eli: I thought just with one hand was a pretty good joke and I'm sad it was missed. I'd like to throw that out there. No, it's okay. It's okay, Tom. It's fine. That's what it is. No, it's fine,

0:11:08 Thomas: Not bad, not bad.

0:11:09 Tom: I missed it. I missed it. Oh God. It was just, it was in the chaos. It was lost amidst the struggle.

0:11:15 Thomas: In my joke instruction, the piano play was an artist who wasn't partaking in the thing, you know, but, but it's okay. If you want to go to a different joke reality, you can.

0:11:18 Eli: Tom, I know. It's a fine, you want to make it ugly, yeah.

0:11:25 Eli: But yeah, no, absolutely, the proliferation of of internet porn is a huge part of this right is just and and also just the fact that the internet drives you to more and more extreme forms of porn exactly

0:11:28 Thomas: For sure plus if it's like the major league baseball you know the old records because like the old timey porn they weren't finding the person who had the 18 24 inch you know there wasn't as many competitors this is what I'm saying you know like it was like before they integrated the leagues you know and the records for baseball were man this is a sports reference damn it all the old -timey baseball shit is bullshit because five white guys played and And nobody else played. Is my joke premise I was going with? I realize nobody knows baseball here.

0:11:59 Eli: What thomas is saying is he hates that we integrated baseball and he wishes that we never had

0:12:05 Tom: I think a lot of times too, about like the language that we use and and how the language that we use informs our sort of broader cultural beliefs. And like a lot of the insults that we used for men really revolve around sexual adequacy or sexual inadequacy. And it's like stand in for our manliness or our stand in, for like whether or not we're worthy or like valuable in the world. And I think that's like a really bad piece of like among the many other pieces, like there's a really fucked up piece of toxic masculinity that makes for bad Bad sexual experiences for men, for bad sexual experiences for women, or the people that men are having sex with, and like everybody is losing. And I'm sure you guys have seen the same thing online where women are saying in the comments section, here are the things that I like. And there's universal agreement that it's not dick size, or it's not being able to go all night or whatever it is. They're like, yeah, that's actually chafey after a while. Fucking settle down. There's all this stuff, but dudes dudes will argue. They will argue in the comments section with women about what women want in part, not entirely in part because the soup that we are swimming in, the insults that we level at men, how we conceive of their Mac, how we sort of like, like semantically and rhetorically tell men what their value is has reinforced this their whole lives. Right. And we'll continue to, even if you reject it those jokes won't go away right those jokes will still be part of like movies and television and the cultural sort of zeitgeist and I just think it's a really interesting piece of the masculine puzzle or the toxic masculine puzzle and I want to get your thoughts on it

0:13:04 Eli: Relax

0:13:20 Thomas: You do soup stuff? Awesome. I do soup step.

0:13:47 Eli: Sting well and it's also it's so hard to find a real touch point because it's so easy to make the joke and so hard to have the mature conversation right like you're 11 12 the first time you're hearing like big dick jokes or little dick jokes right it's just built into it was built into the fucking animaniacs right you can run subtle

0:14:10 Thomas: Jeez, I don't remember that episode.

0:14:10 Eli: Little dick joke jokes past young people and everyone's sort of like it's a raunchy thing but the kids won't get it but like that sexual maturity conversation about how to actually please a partner and how size matters and what but partners actually prefer communication, right? That's a conversation you're never required to have, let alone have it as an adult, right. It sort of reminds me of the Jan D 'Angelo, like white fragility thing where she explains, like you can never have dinner with Robin D 'ANGELO. Yeah. You never have a dinner with a person of color and nobody thinks that affects your ability to be a doctor.

0:14:35 Thomas: Robin D 'Angelo?

0:14:43 Eli: And when you tell white people that they're like, you want me to have to eat with a black person to be an actor. And you're like oh, okay. It reminds me of that, which is like, you can have sex your whole life without ever having a conversation about consent or communication or mutual pleasure or any of those things. But we will indoctrinate you with little dick, big dick jokes starting at age 10.

0:15:07 Tom: Yeah you also to that point like to a large degree culturally men are reluctant to even have this conversation because having it sort of signals that you are inadequate right like oh oh, well, why are we like, so if you begin this conversation, we're like, yeah, this fucking feels like a weird thing for us all to be like judging each other on. It's like, oh, like you wouldn't say that if you were sporting, you know, it's like a fucking settle down. Like, you know, so even like trying to have the conversation ends up being a signal of your own inadequacy, which of course no guy wants to signal out because then like the whole toxic masculinity's vicious cycle that ensues. It's a fucking mess.

0:15:47 Eli: Well, and it's also it's supported by the Internet. Right. Because so let me let me put on my old guy hat for a second here. That's what I call condoms.

0:15:56 Eli: When we were teens and we were all starting to do stuff with our girlfriends. Friends right you all just kind of yelled stuff at each other in as a way to exchange information right you'd be like oh yeah we've gotten to second base I've totally seen her scraps yeah she's got like 16 of them it's pretty cool her 16 scraps she yeah she was six

0:15:57 Thomas: Stupid. Stupid. I know what 69 is for sure. Yeah.

0:16:21 Eli: Seven right exactly it was that okay but that plus the internet right because when we were kids that was bad information and then hopefully another human corrected you right somewhere along the line maybe it was a partner maybe it wasn't right but now you go home and you google 16 sclarps and there's nine people with bipolar disorder all posting 100 times a day being like the 16 sclerps are the only way to have sex take my course at www .sclarpman .com right so there's just you have all of these businesses built up on the worst possible information and no way to determine bad information from good and even if you raise the most skeptical possible young person who's just like absolutely brilliant at telling what's true and what's false there is no arbiter of truth on the internet right so even if your kid goes oh 16sclarps .com let me check out well there's no attribution to that on wikipedia I can't really find it right even then there's no way for them to bring that back into their life because the truth isn't equally represented right it's not like after you visited 16sclarps .com you get to visit hey sex is about mutual consent dot com right they don't they don'T present you with an alternative that

0:16:52 Tom: Yeah, man. Right?

0:17:39 Thomas: That got harassed out of existence. Probably.

0:17:40 Eli: Got arrested out of exactly

0:17:40 Thomas: Yeah. Taken down DDG or DDoS. What is that? Yeah.

0:17:50 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:17:51 Thomas: I think something like penis size is the perfect thing to be an insult for dudes because like it's a private thing. It's an unchangeable thing. And it's a thing that just very easily naturally is going to feel like very threatening if that's wrong about you that's just such a go -to insult naturally like it's hard to I think fight that like natural tendency I feel like you know that's going to be pretty consistent and when it comes to like the truck thing I feel the insult toward men of that is often from a position of people who have had enough of men's shit wanting to insult men in the most insulting way they can like I I feel like that's how I have experienced that. That often comes from women. I don't know. I guess I'm just putting in a voice for like, I'm not sure this is all necessarily done from the perspective of a genuine problem that men have versus like, this is a go -to insult that's going to work. And men being in a position of dominance in our society, the one thing people might have as an insult or a way to even it out is trying to go to this, like the harshest possible insult all the time. You know what I mean? Does that make any sense? Sense. It's like, I

0:18:54 Thomas: Feel like it's more rhetorical maybe, but maybe not. Maybe too many people take it as like this actual truth. I don't know.

0:19:00 Tom: I don't think people take it as an actual truth. I guess the reason I brought that up as an example is kind of exactly what you were saying, is that there's really no reason that that that should even be an insult. That makes sense, right? So the fact that we keep hearing this, though, the factthat we keep getting this sort of subtle messaging, or not so subtle, messaging that's repetitive and comes from multiple sources, comes from men, comes from women, when you grow up as a person hearing these kinds of jokes, for example, and we know that to some degree the truth lies in jokes, right, there's a lot of things that we joke about that actually tell us a lot of things about our cultural values that are true. And so when you are sort of immersed in like, well, what are the insults? The way that we insult one another to a large degree tells everybody culturally these are our agreed upon values. So if one of the ways that like we're going to insult men is we're gonna insult men by by talking about them being bad in bed, you know, like I can't even make a girl come, you know like that or like has a little dick. When we talk about male sexual adequacy or inadequacy as an insult, growing up, the only way to take that is to be like, well, shit. One of the most important things about me as a person is my sexual adequancy. Part of my manliness, part of my value must and has to come from this element of who I am. Because if it wasn't true, then culturally, we wouldn't agree that this was something that was insulting. Right.

0:20:27 Eli: Right and we all want to be good at sex and there's not shorthand for how to be Good at sex and we don't communicate it and we have have sort of left the weirdos on both sides to do the communicating when it comes to that right because like look there's nothing cringier than good sex education have you guys watched good sex education content those fucking glassy eyed perverts being like let's talk about what touches we do and don't enjoy fuck no get me andrew dice clay and a fucking austin texas comedian swearing about women rather than any of this fucking open communication bullshit

0:21:06 Tom: Well, and I think part of the thing that's interesting now is that like the kids are growing up. We all grew up in that space that I'm describing. That space continues to exist. But that male sexual inadequacy that's weaponized as insults, as jokes, as language that tells us that our value comes from this stuff. Now there are online grifters that have more reach than ever who are using that to radicalize kids.

0:21:32 Tom: That stuff is powerful because we all grow up as shitty, insecure garbage people. That's the entirety of like your teenage years is you're growing up and you're like, well, fucking I don't know who I am. This is the process of figuring it out. But now I'm doing it in this space where I have grown ass predators trying to turn me into an incel so they can sell me their fucking hustler university like this Andrew Tate shit, right? Right. Andrew Tate's shit is 100 percent based on a foundation of male sexual inadequacy.

0:22:06 Tom: A thousand percent of it. All these guys now are working to enhance and further and like deepen those insecurities that are sort of like built into the natural process of becoming as an a young person

0:22:22 Eli: Absolutely also it's the gun control argument right which is like you can't sell somebody you're fine and everybody's case is different in the same way you can'T sell gun control nobody buys ten thousand dollars worth of gun control and puts it on fancy mahogany racks in their basement that's why guns will always have more money than gun control right similarly andrew tate will always make money selling sexual inadequacy then we will selling fucking it's about communication and talk to your partner we can't give a 16 -week class called grind school on like ask her what she likes we'll want want lists right like you fucking it and all of those resources are out there for free because they were made by educators and grown -ups who want to make the world better right but people don't value things that are free when's the last time you heard of like young people getting swept up in the craze of the library no libraries are lame I want to pay 1999 to giggle squicks 9 000 my favorite streamer to tell me how to use my ball sack

0:23:24 Tom: Stuff

0:23:26 Thomas: You got to use that ball sack right. If you're not using that right, what are you even doing in bed?

0:23:30 Tom: The whole thing inside right yeah yeah a

0:23:31 Eli: You got to stop the whole thing is that that's exactly what it is not all at once and that's what giggle squicks will teach you is one order to stuff

0:23:31 Thomas: Duh. Well but not all at once. You You tease one ball, you tease one ball, then the other, you know, slowly.

0:23:39 Tom: Thousand

0:23:39 Eli: The balls in but look as long as we are in a pyramid of capitalism which which we are and is inescapable with the current political and economic structure that we are in, it will always, always be more valuable to con people out of money than it will be to give them good information.

0:23:58 Tom: Percent a thousand percent and like I really I don't know if this is true but like I feel anecdotally that almost every guy that I know has gone through some period of their life if they're being honest about it feeling or wondering or being insecure about that issue about the issue of their of their sexual adequacy either in terms of performance you know whether or not they're big enough whether or not they can get it up and keep it up whether or Not you know like they're satisfying to their partner I remember like being like a young person and being like worried like well what's the amount of time you're supposed to last what is the amount of time like if I enjoy this too much right like right away then I'm not gonna last long enough and I'm gonna be a two -pump jump right like that's a a joke you don't want to be that guy don't be that guy because you won't be a fucking man if you're that guy okay well that sucks I don't wanna be that and then you'll hear like well fuck if you last too long like that's a problem and you're like well what's the fucking perfect amount of time and then like you don'T even know like how that is supposed to work and I remember being very anxious about how long to last like how long is the right amount of

0:25:02 Eli: And the, and the only version of orgasm that young people, especially modern young people have been exposed to is the fucking clownish theatrics of pornography. So if your partner doesn't do that, when they come, you're like, you didn't really come.

0:25:10 Tom: Time right

0:25:14 Thomas: Oh, by the way, or fucking movies where they every they do like a few thrusts together, you know, and like and then they all it's a fucking dumb.

0:25:17 Eli: Movies, TV, yeah, everything. Right.

0:25:20 Tom: Right yeah and she comes like no problem to like it's like Like, yeah, like I remember being like genuinely like concerned about these things when I was a young person before I was even sexually active. These were things that were in. Yeah.

0:25:23 Eli: But her skin all comes off her body, so you know it was real?

0:25:36 Eli: Oh, way before you're sexually active. Oh, big time.

0:25:38 Tom: These were things I was like, well, shit, like obviously if you're not good in bed, like you're a shitty man, you're bad, dude, you suck. You can't make a woman come. Like there is a million jokes about how that makes you a shitty dude. So in some ways, like, you are already thinking about how to manage not just your orgasm but managing somebody else's orgasm before you've ever before this is like this is right before you even like touched a titty you know like you're already sort of like having these sort of a nerd yeah right yeah

0:26:00 Eli: Before you've met them, yeah. I haven't met you yet, but I know that if your skin doesn't come off the first time we have sex, I'm gonna kill myself. I'm nine.

0:26:13 Thomas: Was that from species or something? What joke are you doing?

0:26:14 Tom: I have no idea what he's referring to right

0:26:16 Eli: It's from Species? No, it's just like the other big exaggerated orgasm noises.

0:26:19 Thomas: I don't Oh, OK. I thought you were I thought you're making a joke like since I said movies, you're talking about some specific horror movie where that happened or something

0:26:25 Eli: Let me weave! So I can speak to this personally in a way that I feel like neither of you gentlemen can, but feel free to chime in if it's true of you. So if you've attended a live show, you have seen my penis.

0:26:30 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:26:41 Eli: And so you know that I am not exactly packing. The problem is, you see your dad's dick when you're growing up all the time, because your dad is just around the house when you are little, and you're like, someday my dick is going to be as big as my dad's. What I was not aware of is that my dad was packing.

0:26:48 Thomas: It's true yep when you're little what really I thought I are you sure it's not just because you're small and every kid sees their dad oh okay

0:27:02 Eli: Na -na -na, na -na. Na -ra -ra, brah.

0:27:04 Thomas: The legend of your dad continues to

0:27:06 Eli: It was the problem in both directions. I'm small and he was big made it a terrible situation for everybody involved so that by the time I was sexually active I was positively convinced because genuinely and I mean this is going to sound like a silly thing to say I was convinced that women would see my penis and laugh like horror movie slow motion someone would finally agree to see my my penis and then they'd be like oh and then all the other kids from school would burst out of various doorways and various portacultuses in the room and be like right all at a different tone and all that stuff I cannot explain what a real worry that was for me and like look I've got to talk to my dad about it I got to talked to adults who I trusted in my life and sort of calmed down about it and then because I was so quickly and and again I want to say this like I have talked about being put into the kink scene very young that was bad for a lot of reasons but one of the good things about it is they very quickly talked about real pleasure and where real pleasure comes from and so that sort of dissuaded me from stuffing your balls in one at a time just the way the streamer taught you to yeah

0:27:40 Thomas: Grow yeah yeah comes from stuffing your balls one at a time into a woman's vagina if only I could have learned that

0:28:22 Eli: Yeah well 1999 a month but yeah I mean that was a absolutely huge problem for me I think I was like four partners in the first because I would always be like hey just so you know like I don't have a big dick right or I'd make a joke about right I used to have a joke that I would make like on a pretty regular basis that was like my dick's so small one time she spit on it and it drowned right but like I would joke about it I'd be funny about it right but I would like try and get ahead of that because I didn't want that

0:28:45 Tom: Now it's a good joke right

0:28:50 Eli: Situation and I'm not kidding I was like four or five sexual partners in before someone was like hey Just So You Know we don't care about that even a little and I was like I've seen several clowns dressed in sex makeup who've said the opposite and she was like yeah no those people are those people aren't sex clowns they're not real

0:29:06 Tom: Yeah it's funny how little the well it's not

0:29:11 Thomas: Earlier

0:29:10 Eli: My dick is hey tom you promised you wouldn't say that we said in the pre -show that you would not

0:29:13 Tom: Funny yeah I don't know no no well you send me pictures it's adorable it's Adorable is the right word.

0:29:16 Thomas: I like it's cute

0:29:19 Eli: Breathe it's because I keep dressing it up like a squirrel

0:29:22 Thomas: Yeah I like the top hat

0:29:23 Tom: I think the best joke you made about your dick was not intimidating. I think you called it that one time. They had not, yeah.

0:29:25 Eli: Yes exactly it's a social justice penis yeah

0:29:26 Thomas: Yeah well you did it at the you did the pajama party was really funny but it's such a brilliant move to like make it such a bit that now it's a meme now girls want to see your dick like to see how cute it is you know like that's fantastic Fantastic. Brilliant. Yeah.

0:29:39 Tom: The googly eyes really sell it. Like, I really think the googly eye would sell it, yeah,

0:29:41 Eli: It's honestly it's second only it's trending next to zing zing the monkey my dick and zing zing the

0:29:46 Thomas: Another internet thing that I hopefully Tom and I don't know. I don' t know what that is. We never know. We almost never know what you' re talking about.

0:29:48 Eli: Monkey what you don't know about zing zing monkey god zing things and monkeys

0:29:50 Tom: I don't, I never want to know about Zing Zing the monkey, it's, ah,

0:29:55 Eli: Zing zing. The monkey is a one -armed monkey who lives at a monastery in japan and she's super fat and she has a tick tock account where this guy comes and he feeds her all

0:29:55 Tom: God, I can't, no, it

0:30:02 Thomas: Got into my head. I don'' t know if he' s making this up.

0:30:04 Eli: These fruits and she's the best she's sassy and she attacks people and so now the monastery is covered in signs that are like don't try to pet zing -zing the monkey I'm

0:30:05 Tom: Doesn't even matter, oh my God, oh, this is a real thing,

0:30:13 Thomas: You know what' s amazing? I' m on the internet quite a lot, but I have a form of internet knowledge that Eli always knows. There' s a form on the internet that I know that Eli knows, and there' s a from of internet that Eli Eli knows that I don't have any idea about, which means Eli's like double me internet. You know, he's like, double, yeah.

0:30:29 Eli: In the trenches I'm I'm in the trenches.

0:30:31 Thomas: And then Tom just doesn't know the internet. You know?

0:30:35 Tom: And I'm getting, I'm about to remove myself even further, so yeah, it'S perfect, yeah Yeah, no internet. Yeah, I'm leaving.

0:30:36 Thomas: It's a three bears. Eli has two internets. I have one internet. Tom, no internets?

0:30:42 Eli: The Atlantic told me I'm afraid of gorilla glue this week. Okay, Tom. Thanks, buddy. They're using it to fuck kids. I'm sure they are, man. I'm not. I'm Not clicking that link. Not clicking it.

0:30:48 Thomas: I won't know about that gorilla or whatever Eli talked about until the New York Times covers it. Yeah.

0:30:55 Eli: I don't think David Brooks has our best interest in mind as a civilization.

0:30:59 Tom: I was just like, I really think it's fascinating how much of this, like of so many of these topics around toxic masculinity come to how much men are creating this hellscape for ourselves. Because this whole conversation is a great example of, by and large, women aren't at, like, it's not that big a fucking deal, right? This is not that interesting. They're not obsessed over dick size, for example. They are not, generally speaking, worried about how long you're thrusting, right, like these are not worries that the female population is walking around contending with, right. Right. But we are worried they are. We are worried. They are because we are convinced by other dudes that our manliness, that our masculinity is tied up in this stuff. Right. And all of the language that we use suggests that all of this stuff is true. And the language, to be fair, that like women use to to insult men. And that's important as well, because we're all we're All living in the same toxic culture. Nobody's outside of that toxic culture,

0:31:09 Ad: [Ad break 4 — ad music]

0:32:11 Eli: Tom's trying his best, but he's not. He

0:32:12 Thomas: He has his own toxic culture.

0:32:13 Tom: Dude.

0:32:13 Eli: Can't unsubscribe from culture. Culture uh yeah

0:32:15 Tom: I'm fucking real close.

0:32:17 Thomas: Well, what's amazing is women have that same thing, though, because women have a whole bunch of things that they shame each other for that men do not give a shit about at all. I mean, really, truly at all, I mean to a wide degree, it feels like I guess that's just how it is with humans because we care about who we perceive ourselves as competing with, I think, and so we're just like whoever we think we're competing with, that's who we're the most worried about, and that's whose expectations we're kind of maybe putting on ourselves a lot. You know, I don't know. What do you think?

0:32:24 Tom: Do not care about it all yeah do not care at all yeah yeah no I think that that's very true and I think that it could be the stakes get ramped up when those competitive aspects connect into our sexual attractiveness or a sexual viability right because like just as social sexual creatures in the world that shit's a big deal like that shit just is a big thing and it's a big deal and a lot of people have a lot women far more than men, but a lot of people have really not cash money experiences around sex and sexuality. And if you've had a lifetime where you've had a number of non -cash money experiences around sex or sexuality, and then you've got this like insulated sort of toxic environment that's very competitive, that is a recipe for a lot of like really unhealthy dynamics and really unhealthy sort of like personal ideas of ourself and I just to tie it back like I think about that like long form article about all these dudes just deforming their dicks like just absolutely coming out of these surgeries having ruined their sex lives forever that's done now like that's just over now what's driving that what is driving that because it's women it's not them it's not them the call is coming from inside the house and the house is a bunch of dudes in the locker room like locker room talk is not donald trump talking about like a lot of real locker room talk you know very often is that's never the

0:34:13 Thomas: It's not talking about raping people. That's not weird.

0:34:16 Tom: Locker I've been in man but like real locker talk is this sort of like hyper masculine toxic space that does do a lot of like body shaming and sex shaming stuff for dudes and, like, builds itself around that.

0:34:29 Thomas: Perhaps that's why old dudes in the real locker rooms just whip their tiny dicks out and just stand there naked. What is that?

0:34:34 Eli: No are just walking around free balling it talking about stocks it's the best I can't wait to do it are you kidding oh it's The Best you're free that's what it

0:34:37 Thomas: That's the most universal thing. What happens when you're old that makes you decide that's what you all do?

0:34:46 Tom: That's it. Ha, ho, ho.

0:34:46 Thomas: It is so weird I

0:34:46 Eli: Is you're free you're retired your kids are out of college and you're just like look at my open butthole

0:34:50 Thomas: Could be free but that takes effort they're doing something that proactively takes effort it's remarkable, every gym okay here's the thing here's my question for you then expert in this, Eli Bosnick, is that every old dude or is it just that each gym you go to has that cadre of old dudes that wants to just stand there with totally naked in front of everybody for like 40 minutes and they all just go there to get their kicks you know like is that is it all old men or Or do the old men just find the one gym like they congregate to their own?

0:34:55 Eli: Yeah I love it oh yeah no I don't think it's all old men I think that they're a rare pair, beautiful breed. I think there's a certain point. It's like the horror face. You ever see a guy who's so old that like, if you wrap your lips over your teeth, like you're trying to pretend to be someone who doesn't have teeth. And then you open your eyes and make a scared face and open your mouth and make us scared face. Do you ever see an old guy walking around? He just looks like that all the time.

0:35:22 Thomas: OK, they're assigned a gym. And then I

0:35:45 Eli: And you're like, holy fucking shit. What happened to him? Right? Like, I don't know what disease. I don't know what thing that you get but that guy in various forms just lives in elder homes all throughout the nation. I think it's a milder form of that which is that I think it's like you're on your 50th birthday and your wife has just gotten up before you and you're just alone in your house and you realize no one's touched you in a loving way for a decade and you just go, I'm going to get my dick out at the I'm going to go down to the hockey stadium showers. Yep.

0:35:45 Tom: Ha, he, he. Hmm.

0:36:14 Thomas: Just want to show your penis to someone. Yeah. At California Family Fitness.

0:36:15 Tom: Ha, har, har. Ha, her, her.

0:36:20 Eli: Cow or family, family, famous. I'm in a shower. And then I'm just going to stand naked like a statue. I am. What's that poem?

0:36:20 Thomas: Yeah. Yep. Yep.

0:36:28 Eli: I am something he is used to watch upon my nations and we that thing.

0:36:31 Tom: Ha, she, she.

0:36:31 Thomas: There was one where the guy was just naked using, like, a hand dryer to dry off his dick. Like, I swear to God, just like they're just. It's fucking crazy. Every, every. Okay. Thank God you hadn't chimed in.

0:36:38 Tom: Ha, hur, hur.

0:36:38 Eli: Dry your balls. It's the best. Yes. It's the fucking best. Yeah. Mm hmm.

0:36:41 Tom: Every locker room of every gym I've ever been to. You're not wrong. Yeah. This is cross-country.

0:36:46 Thomas: I was like, is Tom going to know and me universal? Okay. Every time just for this.

0:36:47 Eli: Oh, it's everywhere. Yeah. Yeah.

0:36:47 Tom: Yeah. No, no, I was. Yeah, no. This is every single gym. And I've joined a fair number of gyms in my life. Every gym, well, look, they kick me out. After I use the dryer a certain number of times, they kick you out, Thomas.

0:36:55 Eli: He's collecting them like Pokemon. It's the insertion that gets you, Tom. I've given you this note.

0:36:59 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. Okay, I get it.

0:37:03 Tom: It's a, you know, like, I don't want to be too, I wonder if it's because like at a certain age, you're no longer feeling sexually

0:37:05 Eli: I'm a broom.

0:37:07 Thomas: One ball at a time. You put one ball at it.

0:37:14 Tom: Competitive with other men, right? Like at a certain age, you're just like, yeah, like this is over. Oh, I dunno.

0:37:17 Thomas: No, this is a sexual thing though. This is a sexual thing. I swear to God.

0:37:20 Tom: Do you think, I know. No I think this is a total

0:37:23 Eli: This is an anti-sexual thing.

0:37:23 Tom: Yeah, I think so too. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. I've seen those dudes; they don't look excited you

0:37:24 Thomas: No, no fucking disagree. Disagree. Men getting their dicks out, first of all, just in terms of priors, men getting their dick out being a sexual thing is going to be like 99 % of the time a sexual think. But like, I think they enjoy the plausible deniability. They enjoy that. It's like, hey, it's a locker room. I'm just doing penis stuff. It' a locker room. We do penis stuff here. I think they get off on that ability to like just do that and have the plausible deniability. Who's going to call them out? Hey, do you want to not fucking have your dick in my face for an hour?

0:37:57 Thomas: Like just put your clothes. What? It's a locker room. It's locked. You know, no one's ever going to call them out on that. They're just not going to. Yeah, they're exactly. It's some old guy. Yep.

0:37:57 Eli: Yeah, and also they're old, right? It's locker room plus old. And so when you see it, you're not like, he's behaving. You're just like, I'll be around for 10 more minutes. He's free. He's free. I think it's about pure power. Pure power. I want to do it. I should do it. I don't want to go to a gym but I do want to get my dick out and wander around

0:38:15 Thomas: Yeah. I agree. Three. I want to do it. Good news. You can just go to the gym. Just do that part.

0:38:16 Tom: Could just join it. Yeah

0:38:25 Thomas: I feel like a lot of them do.

0:38:25 Eli: Yeah, it's worth the membership. Yeah.

0:38:27 Tom: I'm not here to work out I'm just here to flash Flashdong, that's all I'm here for.

0:38:30 Thomas: We have that membership tier, by the way. It's just get your dick out in the locker room.

0:38:33 Eli: Just the dong membership. You just get your own entrance. You come in through the showers. You go out through the showers. No one ever sees you on machine. It's the best There's a really fancy gym that's just opened up pretty close to me like 25 minutes away and they're like super duper well known as being like the palace of iron and I kind of want to join just to ruin that experience for a bunch of really strong people right just to walk over and be like I'm sorry gents are you using these two and a halves no you aren't all right if you need me I'll be looking at you while I do kettlebell swings wings. One, two, I'm doing a thousand. Three. I'm pumping myself up with an audio book.

0:39:16 Tom: Shush.

0:39:16 Eli: Go dungeon crawler Carl. You crawl that dungeon. All right, gentlemen, before we go, I've got some bad news. I found out that my girlfriend is a ghost. I knew it the moment she walked through the door.

0:39:20 Clip: DEAR OLD DADS

0:39:36 Tom: Oh my God. Oh my God.

0:39:36 Thomas: I love that one. That was a good one. I mean, actually, it doesn't make sense with the setup because like you found out she was a ghost, but then it happened right when she walked through the door. It's all right. It's fine. Eli hates me so much.

0:39:48 Eli: How dare you? How dare you?

0:39:50 Tom: We

0:40:42 Eli: You want big meaty hogs. What Thomas is saying is he hates that we integrated baseball and he wishes that we never had

0:40:52 Thomas: Oh, you do soup stuff? Awesome. I do soup step.

0:40:55 Tom: All grow up as shitty, insecure garbage people.

0:40:59 Eli: Let me weave look at my open butthole

0:41:04 Thomas: It's a locker room. We do penis stuff here.

0:41:06 Tom: I'm just here to flashdong. That's all I'm here for.

0:41:09 Eli: No it's hogs