DOD218: A Mathematical Formula for Mom's Libido?

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's all touched out. I'm Tom Curry. I am joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:37 Thomas: I don't know how to respond to that. What do we do?

0:00:40 Tom: Get in here, buddy. Get in there.

0:00:45 Eli: So now, are you a big spoon or a little spoon tom you strike me as a big spoon

0:00:49 Tom: I'm the big spoon, yeah. I've never been a little spoon.

0:00:51 Thomas: Are you guys only one type of spoon? What a sad existence.

0:00:54 Eli: Oh no you gotta be one type of spoon I would never no

0:00:56 Tom: Yeah, I can't imagine being little spooned.

0:00:56 Thomas: What? What? I'm heartbroken at the news of this.

0:01:03 Eli: I would take away your rights if you were a little spoon

0:01:09 Thomas: This may come from physical discomfort literally all the time. I can't be in one position for more than four seconds because everything hurts. So I'm constantly flipping spoons. You're telling me your wife doesn't come up behind you, give you a little, give you little neck anything? Give you a in bed, like a cuddles? You wouldn't snuggle with your wife as little spoon? What the fuck is wrong with you homophobes?

0:01:17 Eli: That's insane to me to say I would judo throw her is an understatement nope no no no yeah maybe this is

0:01:36 Thomas: I did

0:01:36 Eli: Like maybe I found the last remnant of my upstate new york upbringings homophobia

0:01:41 Thomas: Not anticipate this being an issue. I really didn't.

0:01:42 Eli: This might be gay fear no

0:01:46 Tom: You're not actually allowed as a man to be the little spoon in the Midwest. Like, you can't do it.

0:01:49 Eli: No the cops come break down your door and just shoot you a bunch yeah

0:01:51 Tom: Yeah, it's a whole... it would just never occur to me to not be the one that's the big spoon that's not how if

0:01:57 Thomas: I'm constantly the one that that's the default, but like you're never in the other, like you never just happened to be lying down toward the other direction.

0:02:06 Tom: I'm lying and I'm facing the other direction it's because I'm now asleep I've fallen asleep

0:02:11 Thomas: Okay. You can't be spooned in your sleep. Is that not something you can do?

0:02:13 Tom: If it happens I don't know what's happening I'm fucking asleep I have no idea

0:02:16 Eli: If you spoon me in my sleep I'm not just awake now I'm out of the building I've actually jumped clear through the window

0:02:23 Thomas: What the Fuck? What is happening right now? Am I being pranked?

0:02:25 Tom: Yeah I wouldn't mind I guess I wouldn'T mind it just it's not I don't know it's it would be insane I wouldnT be like I gotta get up and move it's just not our dynamic we wouldn'T that'd just be strange yeah

0:02:30 Thomas: I have, this is,

0:02:34 Eli: Can I be clear what spooning is because maybe we're picturing different things

0:02:38 Thomas: I can maybe, something's wrong here. I don't know what's happening I mean just just a little snuggle just a little yeah

0:02:42 Eli: Because I love snuggles I love cuddles and I Someone is on their side or on their back and is being held by the other person with the big spoon. Much like when you place two spoons together, your front is pressed firmly to their back.

0:02:51 Thomas: Both people really uh

0:03:06 Eli: And you're saying you enjoy having that done to you. Ugh.

0:03:06 Thomas: -huh you're saying this doesn't come up like just are you not snuggling enough to where different snuggle positions

0:03:12 Eli: No, because I would stab her with a knife.

0:03:17 Tom: I wouldn't mind. I just not. Yeah, no.

0:03:17 Thomas: You guys have like okay we're about to snuggle get on your mark I've taped it I fucking gaffer taped it out only one position we're allowed to snuggling

0:03:25 Eli: Yeah. I'm never standing on my head with my butthole spread wide open either, Thomas.

0:03:27 Thomas: Hon missing

0:03:29 Tom: I feel like this is the same thing as like when you hold hands, you've got like, this is how we hold hands. Right. Like your hands just meet. No. Like you hold hands.

0:03:29 Thomas: Out and sometimes you're holding hands briefly in different ways no what is wrong with you

0:03:39 Eli: But Thomas, what you're explaining is like, yeah, sometimes we hold hands normal, and sometimes I hold my hand in a little cone, and Lydia palms my entire hand in hers, and then slowly undulates her palm into the tips of my fingers going, who's daddy's milky boy?

0:03:40 Tom: Like this is how you hold your hands. Yeah look,

0:03:59 Thomas: People

0:03:58 Eli: Who's daddy's milky boy? Like, the notion that you're just like, Like, well, I can't hold my head still because I hockey too much, so sometimes I'm getting pegged is so fucking

0:04:00 Thomas: Sounds great I don't know what the fuck you're talking

0:04:08 Eli: Insane to me. Like, I want to be clear.

0:04:11 Tom: You're crazy.

0:04:11 Eli: If you want to get pegged, live and be well.

0:04:13 Thomas: About getting pegged has nothing to do with the discomfort I feel from

0:04:18 Eli: Getting pegged and being the little spoon is literally just a difference of penetration.

0:04:21 Thomas: Hockey yeah that's just a small difference notoriously

0:04:22 Tom: No that's the only, that's a pretty, pretty significant difference I wonder if part of it for me because I don't share Eli's weird homophobic thing with it like and I don'T at all like I donT care about that at all I think maybe the difference is like I'm so much bigger than hayley like I wonder If a size difference is not part of It's like i'M a hundred pounds

0:04:27 Thomas: Penetration is just a very minor detail let's cancel his ass yeah and sometimes it's funny that makes it fun it makes it funny it's a good

0:04:46 Tom: Bigger than she is like literally a hundred pounds bigger if she comes up behind me to hug me it's like

0:04:49 Eli: Sometimes Max gives me a bath instead of the other way around. What are you people doing?

0:04:52 Tom: She can it's Like look you ever like cuddle with your wife and like you go to like lay your head on her chest or something for and like Like, it's like, well, we can only do this for a little while. I'm crushing you. This is an unsustainable moment. She can lay her head on my chest for a week, and I don't know if she's there.

0:04:53 Thomas: Bit yeah you don't notice yeah yes

0:05:09 Tom: I put my body on top of her body, and she dies. She's like more weight, you know, like.

0:05:13 Eli: Yeah. You put your wife on your wife's body to put her out because she is on fire. That is the reason

0:05:19 Thomas: Yeah new more fun question and I can't wait to also be a freak weirdo although I think lydia's into this sometimes as well do you ever do the thing where just for fun you pretend like okay what if I died on top of you right now would you be able to get out of this have you ever like it's

0:05:32 Tom: No, but I know that answer.

0:05:35 Thomas: It's really funny I like because like I think lidia maybe overestimated her ability to like lift me off of her because I was like I'll just go dead you could Could you get out of it? Could you give up? If I died, right? If I had a stroke right now, could you give it up? That's a fun game.

0:05:37 Tom: That's really funny, though.

0:05:41 Eli: The answer

0:05:48 Thomas: You guys don't do enough fun stuff with your partner.

0:05:48 Eli: Was no can I say I'm a lot heavier than you thomas I think that would be a lot more

0:05:56 Thomas: I don't even think that's true.

0:05:57 Eli: That would be a lot more harm of my wife than I think I

0:05:58 Tom: That. Yeah, that game turns into an emergency real fast in the Curry house.

0:06:03 Eli: Think if tom and I go dead on our wives our wives might go dead under us

0:06:06 Thomas: Yeah, no, that's true. You may have a point there. Okay, fine.

0:06:09 Tom: Yeah, this is a legitimate fear. Like, this ist a legitimate fea. Yeah.

0:06:13 Eli: Yeah but gentlemen do you know the only thing worse than Thomas cuddled up like a little shrimp inside Lydia's loving arms why it's the auto ads the being pegged by your no I think being pecked by your wife is fine I don't want to carry that baggage I think if you want to get pegged I very clear very clear

0:06:30 Thomas: It's nice. You can only get pegged in reverse cowgirl. That's the only manly way to be pegged.

0:06:37 Eli: Get pegged get pegged, however you I really want to be clear I think it's fine to get pegged I don'T think it's fine to be the little spoon I don't you shouldn't be able to get married if you're the little spoon but

0:06:48 Tom: This is bonkers.

0:06:50 Thomas: The only way Eli gets pegged is by being the big spoon and having like a giant like curved dildo that goes around and behind him that's the only way his wife's allowed to fake him yeah

0:07:00 Eli: I have to be behind for the pegging it's as a whole

0:07:01 Tom: This feels like those, like, internet things where somebody's like, Men can't carry umbrellas or sip from a straw.

0:07:08 Thomas: It does feel like that is what it feels like to be

0:07:10 Eli: Is it an ick when your husband chooses what he wants from a menu right that's me look I'm gonna I'm going to own it I'm I'll have a new anyways it's terrible and they shouldn't vote and you You can make them stop voting, the little spoons, over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dads. No, no, because Lydia will take it away from you. She'll reach around.

0:07:19 Tom: It's such a weird

0:07:14 Thomas: Honest what is happening what is happenin hey I should still get to vote oh it's true I always say I'm really just duplicating her vote or canceling it

0:07:37 Eli: Yeah, exactly. She'll read it. She'll get around you with her big, strong arms and pluck your vote out of your hand and you'll go, babe, no.

0:07:46 Eli: Patreon .com. Forward slash dear. Old dads. Rip into it.

0:07:50 Thomas: Out hashtag little spoon lives matter

0:07:53 Tom: Stance

0:08:00 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:08:01 Tom: We're talking about a story that I found on vice this is woman made a ton of men mad with her math lesson on mom libido but before we do thomas smith I need you to hear me for a second I'm gonna read what is structured like a math equation and you are not allowed on air air

0:08:10 Thomas: Apparently okay oh great here we go I'm not allowed to comment on the math

0:08:17 Tom: You are not allowed on air to fucking diagram the math yeah you can't you're not allowed to do it you're Not Allowed to Do It okay we're gonna try to get to what she what the point is and not what the math turns out to be

0:08:19 Eli: To solve it. And

0:08:20 Thomas: Fuck okay all right okay all Right I'm nothing if not a kind business partner spoon me this math

0:08:31 Eli: A little spoon. Yeah.

0:08:30 Tom: Okay all right so this is a tiktok I guess men did not like this tiktak so here's the math equation that she came up with it is in parentheses I know I know order of operations order of operations hours of sleep plus number of real meals eaten while seated and paren times partner support divided by the number of annoying comments that he's made minus number of times touched by children equals mom's

0:08:41 Thomas: I'm trying okay ah okay okay so many problems with me no I'm not gonna say it okay

0:09:04 Tom: Libido and so the point of this whole thing was really for this woman to say look libido is not just about sexual desire in a vacuum right like in a relationship and especially a relationship where there are children there is a multitude of different forces and supports and lack of supports and you know just the fact of having kids all of these things are going to affect her libido or might affect her libid at least in her experience she's saying this affects her libido and so one of the things that that she says and I thought this was really interesting is when she did the math for herself it was all like very good stuff she wrote like eight hours was asleep three meals a helpful husband a thousand toddler touches no fucking libido not a chance and I thought that was really interesting and I was really interested because one men fucking hate this so much

0:09:57 Eli: I do. It's true.

0:09:58 Thomas: Really what's the that part take me there I think a lot of that is in

0:10:00 Tom: So dudes went absolutely fucking bonkers around this thing people were absolutely like offended at the idea that there are factors I think outside of their control where their needs weren't going to get met a lot of it is but like I think what was interesting about her Her example is she had eight hours of sleep. She had three good meals. She had a helpful husband.

0:10:17 Thomas: In their control but yeah okay on a sec hold on a second I'm going through the terms of the equation and I'm doing so in a very non -mathematical way every single one of those elements is under their control hours of sleep you can help number of real meals eaten while seated you can help with that partner support that's literally you number of annoying comments you made that's also you number times touched by children guess what you can intervene in that you can have a hand in

0:10:41 Tom: That's the only one where I think number of times of hours or times being touched by children. I think that your ability to intervene on that is sometimes dependent on the situation where you might not have so much control. Like sometimes people breastfeed, right? And so like that, that may directly impact how much that person is being touched. Sometimes kids go through phases where all they want is mom, right. Right. And like, there's only so much you can do to intervene in that. So I think that the the being touched.

0:10:51 Thomas: That sure sure I go through those phases too all I want is to be a little spit oh what now that's a

0:11:09 Eli: And breastfeed yeah it's the same to me it's the same

0:11:17 Thomas: Crime yeah

0:11:19 Tom: So, all right, Eli, you did not like this. Tell me what you didn't like about this.

0:11:23 Eli: So look I want to say at the outset look I'm full of bad takes I'm apparently a homophobe because thomas is a fucking little I need to come up with a slur for little spoons

0:11:32 Thomas: They already exist apparently and you're you use them frequently of

0:11:36 Eli: But exactly apparently I'm over but I'm gonna pull out a second bad take for this episode because usually look a lot of what we do behind the the scenes is we find stupid men acting like pieces of shit and we go look at these stupid men acting like piece of shit. And we go, yeah, we can talk about this, right? How stupid men are and what pieces of they are. Now I will say at the outset that the male reactions listed in this article are fucking insane.

0:11:41 Thomas: Course yeah yeah yeah that's gonna be any article about any social media thing

0:12:08 Eli: To be clear, I don't agree with any of the male interactions to this take which is like what six o 'clock is time for fuck fuckums and if you don't if I if baby doesn't get fuck fuckum's at six o clock then I'm gonna divorce you and marry an ai now here's the thing I obviously think all of that is abhorrent that said I will say I have problems with quite literally 100 of this formula there is something about this formula and it introduces me to a concept that I I talk about all the time which is that I think there are women through no fault of their own I think they mean well I think it has to do with power dynamics and establishment who turn their husbands into babysitters they pay in fuck and what this equation shows me is that this person does not have a husband doesn't have a husband she has a babysitter who she pays in fuck And when he's a good babysitter he gets fuck and when he is a bad babysitter, no fuck for you little spoon No, no, no

0:12:27 Thomas: Though I've been a very bad

0:13:15 Eli: If my sex life is lowered by the amount of times you've been touched by our child the Problems that you have much like I discover you are cheating on me with a fuck robot though like I've just been touched Touched by our child who really needs me and wants me and I'm its major source of love right now. So I, ugh, like, yuck -o. It's really been a yucky part of my day how often I've been touched by our childhood. Forget fucking. I don't give a shit if we fucking. We talking about how you use minus our kid touching you as a factor for whether or not you're having a fun day.

0:13:56 Thomas: Babysitter holy shit I don't know yet talk about a bad take this is worse than the little spoon incident of 2025 as a husband of a wife who has three kids you could get touched out a

0:13:59 Tom: Man. Yeah, it's a rough one. Do you not think, Eli? That being touched out is a thing?

0:14:12 Eli: Yeah, touched out, I completely understand. Touched out, I completely understand, I understand. Say like hey I just need a little break needing a break needing arrest all that kind of stuff when it comes into our fuck equation that's fucking insane right that like hey just so you know

0:14:26 Thomas: Lot our sacred fuck equation I swore a vow over our fuck equation okay we there were

0:14:31 Eli: The fucking today yeah the notion that because again like I understand needing a break I understand eating a rest I understand that it can have nothing to do with your partner but the idea that like momming that being touched by your child this incredibly important incredibly sacred vital part of your child's development that I as a dad should be watching my kid on your lap climbing all around and watching frozen I should be like now I'm not gonna get any pussy right like the the notion that I shouldbe jumping to tear my toddler off of you so that you're not too touched out to jerk me off late like that that is so again Again, it's not like me want fuck fuck, which I think would be awful. I think it would be terrible if you were like, no, you have to fuck me no matter how much the toddler. It's not about the fucks. It's não é sobre os fucks, você pode me fucker ou não me fuckar por qualquer razão whatsoever.

0:15:16 Tom: Except

0:15:31 Eli: I am saying that when you are going, hey, a really bad thing for me is when our child touches me like that. That is something to be dealt with, with a capital T.

0:15:43 Thomas: Witnesses boy yeah I don't know I'm not sure I can go with you there

0:15:43 Tom: This one yikes wow yeah I I don't know man like I don'T really get that I think it's okay for people to not always enjoy everything about being a mom or a dad in every moment that that happens

0:15:55 Eli: Totally fine. Again, I totally agree. You don't have to enjoy every second of being touched by your toddler no

0:16:00 Tom: But you kind of you're kind of saying that you are I mean you you are saying like that it is a problem like capital p problem if somebody is feeling put out touched out by being overwhelmed with being constantly touched by their child. I mean, you, you're pretty much implying that directly.

0:16:16 Eli: Again totally fine because again if it was energy

0:16:19 Tom: Then I'm not sure I understand. Okay.

0:16:20 Thomas: Yeah what's the distinction you're making

0:16:20 Eli: So it is the direct relationship between you being touched by our child and fucking

0:16:27 Tom: So, so let me, let me make sure I understand because if I, as a person am feeling like, okay, I spent my whole day being touched. I've had my whole Day. I've reached my limit of how much I want to be touched. You're not going to want to Be touched. How are you going to fuck without touching?

0:16:43 Eli: Again my issue is I think it's fine they're one their way but I would say it is always fine to take that as an understanding of the energy that you have to give but when the The way you think of your child is as an energy drain and specifically an energy drain for your relationship with your partner. You are asking for your child's happiness to be a choice that your partner makes.

0:16:44 Thomas: There are ways yeah I know I don'T know but like what look into the what the spirit behind this is because obviously we could be literalist about it and I'm doing a great job not going through the math I am doing such a good job but like if you take it from the approach of if this person or any person in her situation is going to try to account for why she might not have sexual desire on a given day or night this being one of the factors I mean is there some different way she should have phrased it I don't know what do you

0:17:12 Tom: I don't get that.

0:17:21 Eli: You're doing so good.

0:17:23 Tom: Yeah.

0:17:37 Eli: Yeah, a hundred percent.

0:17:38 Tom: I really genuinely don't Get this. Yeah, Yeah, I don't understand this at all.

0:17:40 Eli: When you make my child touching you a negative in your life, when what you want to talk about is, hey, oh boy, you know, I would have a nice thing, but this really negative thing happened to me that really took it out of me. And it's my relationship with my child. Again, this isn't about fucking for me. No one owes sex for any reason. The sex equation for me is, do you want to have sex? Yes or no? It is a very clear binary. Anything else, and I want to get to the other factors because there's a lot of problematic factors in this. There's a tremendous amount out about this that just turns husbands into again babysitters and caretakers that are paid and fucks right and you would never accept it with a reversed gender dynamic right power levels aside if I made a tiktok that was like dad's libido equals how many hours of golf I got to play multiplied by how hot you're looking right exact

0:18:32 Thomas: Think yeah how many meals she cooked while naked and when but in a

0:18:40 Tom: Wow, this is crazy.

0:18:41 Eli: Minus the amount of times I had to talk to her mom The internet would, rightly, skin all the skin off of my body.

0:18:49 Thomas: Yeah or they would make you into an influencer like what's his name that guy governor who's that guy again fuck who has the I'm

0:18:56 Eli: Andrew Tate,

0:18:58 Tom: But hang on a minute, because I have to jump in, even though, because I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I think you're saying. So I think it's important. The gender reverse would have to have essentially the same things. You could just, right, because like what this woman is describing is, hey, these are just basic human needs. Sleep, food, a little time and space to yourself. These are basic human need. So like to sort of like suggest that gender reversing it is, I get to go play golf with the guys is not the same. It's like what she's saying. Hold on.

0:19:26 Thomas: Not sure I agree with that I actually I'm not sure I agree with okay good

0:19:30 Eli: So I was exaggerating in the reversal?

0:19:32 Tom: I know you were, I just want to make sure the audience doesn't like misunderstand. Yeah.

0:19:34 Eli: Sure. I was exaggerated. And I would also point out that an exact one -to -one gender reversal wouldn't work for this because male and female power dynamics are different. The expectations in parenting are different, the one -for -one gender reversal doesn't work in any way. The reason I bring it up is that we understand that making a formula for whether or not you want to have sex with your partner is unhealthy. It's not good. It's Not Good. It's NOT Safe. It's...

0:20:01 Thomas: It's a creative exercise to make a point I'm maybe that's the the difference I'm looking at this as this woman's like partner probably does kind of suck you know even though she says not but like I look at this As how much is the typical male uh the typical dude the typical father not really pulling their weight parenting and here's how that affects the libido I mean I think you've said yourself eli that the biggest turnoff for women is when the dude becomes like a another like kid that they're taking care of so these to me look like things where it's like hey here's some ways that maybe dudes ought to recognize they are falling short when I'm not getting to have any meals eaten while seated or I'm not getting you know like I look at it like

0:20:43 Eli: I love that so much. I love dat so much, and if this were a conversation about the Mom Happy -O -Meter, or the Comfort -O Meter, or The Being Supported -O Meter, I would be 1 ,000 ,000 % on board for it, right? If this was just like, hey, this is the mom happiness score for today, I'd be like, fuck yeah, girl. And I would also completely and totally understand the being touched out part of things.

0:20:52 Thomas: That hmm that's fair well hold on I mean I also think that this this is another thing we've said that often that is women's sex drive the amount that they're happy with their partner the amount that their partner is doing the things that that they need in supporting them, that often is, like in my experience, synonymous with their sex drive.

0:21:21 Tom: There are two factors that I think this, this addresses that I Think maybe you're maybe dismissing or not seeing, or maybe you feel differently about, but I feel like the question that this seeks to answer is there's a bunch of dudes who are saying, I don't understand why she's not in the mood. And this video helps people to understand that that libido is contextual. And I think also there is a tremendous amount of guilt that women feel. I don't understand why I don'T feel in the mood. I donT feel in mood. Am I wrong? Am I abnormal? Am I the way? And this is a way for women to sort of validate one another to say, no, libido IS contextual. How in the world can you expect to feel in a mood if you're tired or you're hungry or somebody's been climbing on your body like a jungle gym for 12 hours today? It's okay. Hey, these things affect all of us. I think something like this answers two important social questions because there are a lot of people out there. There's a lot of dudes that are like, I don't know what to do. She's never in the mood. She used to be in the mode. And then we had kids and she's not in the mood. And so I'm just going to go golfing because, you know, I don't know

0:22:28 Tom: How to solve this problem. We only need again to read the comment section of anywhere to see that dudes don't get it. And we can read those same comment section and see that women feel guilty. And so I think revolving this around sex actually is important.

0:22:42 Eli: Let me point out why I think there's a flaw in this. And I think it's a pretty major flaw. If mom has had eight hours of sleep, no sassy comments, three sit down meals, and has not been touched a bunch, right? No touch. Dad took the kids out all day and has Not been touched. Does she owe her husband sex? Sex I think we all agree does

0:23:01 Tom: No, I think the likelihood is higher. Right.

0:23:01 Thomas: But that's not even what the equation says. The equation says her libido then would be good.

0:23:06 Eli: Mom have to by necessity be horny

0:23:10 Tom: No, no, I don't think that. And I don'T think that's the suggestion.

0:23:12 Eli: So no no I don't think it is either because I think this isn't actually about libido it's not actually a measure of libido because if it wasn't the libido score if it was that mom happiness score we could say oh yeah absolutely that's the mom happiness core and if she doesn't get the touches and she does get the eight hours of sleep and she doesn'T get the meals and she DOESN'T get THE shitty comments right the mom happiness score should be a 10 or whatever the number it is that right one on a 1 to 10 scale it should be attend but we all know that you can't decide when someone's libido should be higher or lower that libido is actually about how you feel in the moment what she is doing by using libido as the metric is she is using a common frustration for men which is that they're They're not sexually connecting with their partner enough and saying, well, it would be higher if you did these things when we know that it does not have to be.

0:23:14 Tom: Okay. What? Well, but let me, I still want to push on that.

0:24:11 Thomas: Well, it doesn't have to be, but maybe for her it would be. I don't know.

0:24:13 Tom: If you look at the idea of libido, and I think this is a common view, as having accelerants and breaks. Have you heard this theory before? Like there are things that you can do which act as an accelerant, and there are things which can be done which are a break on libido or sexual desire. The idea as a partner would be, look, I should eliminate all the things that are breaks that are under my control. If I'm trying to solve for this common problem that you're talking about, if I'm a guy and I'm saying like, hey, I want to connect more frequently or in a more fulfilling way or whatever with my spouse, and there's clearly a libido mismatch here that's occurring, you have to look at things, I think, in terms of saying, okay, well, what are the breaks? Like, are there things that are getting in the way? Okay, let's eliminate the things that get in the way. Are there accelerants that I can press? I can press the accelerants. What this does is it raises the likelihood of that libido change to occur. And if the libido exchange doesn't occur, then you get to have an entirely different conversation.

0:25:15 Tom: But you don't even get to, yeah, I think you do. Because you can't even have the conversation about libido if somebody is exhausted.

0:25:24 Tom: It's not even a fair thing to say. If I go to my wife and she's on four hours of sleep, three days in a row, and I want to open up a conversation about libido, I'm an asshole.

0:25:24 Thomas: I think Tom's right on. Yeah. Mm -jm.

0:25:35 Tom: What I need to do first is open up a conversation called, hey, we need to meet your basic fucking human needs before we even have a conversation about this, because these roadblocks are in place. It's unfair to even have another conversation in place If I remove the brakes, then I can say, okay, well, we know these things aren't it. And so there's a mismatch. And And so why is there a mismatch? Is there anything I can do? Maybe you can bridge the gap. Maybe you cant. But I don't even think you can have the conversation in a meaningful way until you address the things that are roadblocks, that are breaks in that system.

0:26:06 Eli: I think this makes a lot of assumptions about where men are and who they are. So because then built into that assumption is that all of men's basic needs are being met.

0:26:17 Thomas: Mm -mn.

0:26:17 Eli: And look, like, don't get me wrong, right? We talk about on this show all the time that like men need to do more. The reason we created this show was to set an example of healthy masculinity, and that means showing up more and doing more so most men aren't as tired, aren't as touched out, arenít as sleep -deprived, etc. But, like, the assumption of this formula is that libido is not affected by those things for men, right? Right. That men just want it all the time and that there are a series of tasks, Hercules, you have to accomplish things you have to do for me, parenting things you have to do for me before I will consider sex as a possibility. Yeah.

0:26:59 Tom: I don''t think that''s what''s being said at all. I think that's just a wild misinterpretation of what'' 's being said.

0:27:00 Thomas: Yeah, I don't really think that's, yeah, I agree.

0:27:05 Thomas: Let me do a simple example. Let me just see if this like would translate. Let's say, because for one, I think a lot of this is assumptions you're putting into it and you're trying to apply this equation universally. I think this is a very pretty specific thing someone's saying and they fall into the typical gender norm, which is the dude wants to have sex pretty much all the time. And, you know, obviously the woman doesn't feel that same way. And I think that describes a lot people. I don' t think it's everybody, but I think it describes a lof of people. And I thin this person is falling within that. What if there was a major problem in this country of dudes not washing their dicks? And, and this woman is like, boy, I sure would love to have sex with my husband, but he never washes his fucking dick. And she makes a thing. That's an equation that says, Hey, I would love to fuck you, but here's my equation for libido. It's one minus the, no, it's a, what would it be now? Now I have to think of the math. I turned the math part of my brain off to do this podcast. It said,

0:27:58 Thomas: You know, it is one times the amount of times you've washed your dick.

0:27:58 Eli: You've washed your dick. Right. Yeah.

0:28:01 Thomas: So if it's zero, it's now zero. You wouldn't be like, hold on. Does that mean if I wash my dick, I automatically get sick? I'd be like no. It's just the point of it is like these are factors that are getting in the way that men should pay attention to, dads should pay attention to.

0:28:16 Eli: I mean, look, let me get to the core of my hot take and then maybe you guys can break this down and show me where I'm wrong.

0:28:22 Thomas: There's more of a...

0:28:22 Eli: The core of my hot take is this, the factor for your libido should be whether or not you want to have sex with me. And if there is a list of chores for me to do that changes how much you do or do not want to Have sex with Me, sex is not about me.

0:28:43 Tom: Okay. All right. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think you''ve hit on it.

0:28:43 Thomas: It might not be about you for a, you know, like yeah.

0:28:47 Tom: Sex is not always about you. And I think the...

0:28:50 Eli: Cool, then don't have sex With Me.

0:28:51 Tom: Yeah, I won''t.

0:28:54 Eli: Hey, Tom, don't say hurtful things.

0:28:53 Thomas: Maybe you need to adopt this little spoon, little spoon position. Maybe you needs to spend some time I'm in the little spoon position to see what it looks like from back there.

0:28:59 Eli: Is that what they, do they whisper their list of chores to you while you're in your little spoon?

0:29:03 Tom: Whether

0:29:02 Thomas: No, it's that they can't even see you. It's that it doesn't matter who's back there could

0:29:05 Eli: Mistress tells you all the things you must do before you get to be the big spoon again?

0:29:17 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:29:18 Tom: Or not somebody wants to do something is always contextually dependent. Whether or not I want to eat a sandwich might depend on when the last time I had a fucking sandwich was. It's contextually independent. So if I want to take you out to dinner, Eli, I'm not going to say, all right, the best time to ask you out, to go to dinner is seven minutes after you eat. And I'm going to invite you to a steakhouse, right? As a vegan, you don't want to have dinner with me. You don't love me as your friend. You don't want to have dinner with me like I did it badly. I did a bad job of creating a context that is most likely to get you to want to enjoy a dinner enjoy a meal with me, right? Like sex is not a thing that exists in a vacuum. It is a thing that exist in a relationship and a relationship exists in time and a space and a home with kids and with work and with sleep and with food and with all of these other factors and And I think to pretend that these things are sort of not to be considered meaningfully as mood breakers or mood creators, like there's an example like Dan Savage always gives, like the sex advice columnist, he's

0:30:25 Tom: Like, his joke is like for Valentine's day or whatever, fuck first because nobody wants to go out and have like a big fucking Italian dinner and come home and fuck on a bloated stomach. It's not because you don't want to have sex with that person. The advice isn't don't have sex. The advice is like, do this thing in the right order because you're more likely to be in the mood if you set these preconditions. This isn't a set of chores. And I think looking at this as a set of chores, because actually, if you look at what she said, she's like, I didn't sleep enough. That's not short.

0:30:31 Eli: Yes. I've heard this, yeah. Well, they're all things that he needs to do.

0:30:57 Tom: They're not. No, they're not, you're literally wrong about that. If I read this, I'm going to read it back to you because I think this is actually important. It's hours of sleep. That's something he did.

0:31:07 Tom: It might not be fixable. No. No this is important. It might not be fixable. That's the other thing people seem to not want to understand about libido is this might not Be something that can be fixed in the moment, or in the day or in the week or in a month, there might be periods of time where people are going through something. Like let's say she's got terrible intractable insomnia. You might do everything in your power to fix that problem. And it might be like, look, I'm fucking exhausted. I'm not into it. And you might be able to say like, all right.

0:31:07 Thomas: Be. Am

0:31:06 Eli: Oh, wait, but whose job is it to fix that situation?

0:31:38 Thomas: I the only one who gets hornier when I'm tired? What was with people?

0:31:41 Tom: But like, I think it's important to recognize that that maybe you can solve for some of these. Maybe you can remove some of the breaks. Maybe you cannot, and that is okay. It is still important to understand the factors that affect people's libido.

0:31:53 Eli: But you're giving me the equation is the issue that I have here. If she is speaking to men, specifically her husband, and she's saying, here's the equation, the presumption I'm making is that you're not just listing factors for no reason. You're telling me that I can affect those factors.

0:32:11 Tom: Then that is where I disagree with you. I think it might also just be, I would like to be understood. Sometimes we want to be misunderstood. Sometimes we can say to someone, hey, look, there is a lot of stuff that goes into my sexual desire, my libido, whatever. Some of it may be under your control. Some of them might not, but I want to being understood. In fact, it might be more important, I think, for people to understand, hey, this isn't actually about me. My wife's libido is low. And instead of me feeling hurt or taking damage or having bad self -esteem, I might be able to say, like, well, of course it is. She's exhausted. Right.

0:32:42 Thomas: Yeah, there's no nicer shirt you're going to wear. That's going to fix this or something, you know?

0:32:48 Eli: Right. Hmm.

0:32:48 Tom: Look, there. And that's super important. Yeah. Yeah. I think the idea that you can... Yeah, no, go on. I was just saying, I think the idea you can solve for all of these problems is a wrongheaded idea. But I think the idea the you can understand what drives libido and what damages libido is essential to understand. Because if I don't, then yeah, maybe if there's a mismatch, I'm going to feel bad about that. And I'm gonna take emotional or psychological damage or relational damage from that. When instead, I could be like, hey, I understand my partner better. And that's a better space but like not recognizing the context that create libido if you just pretend that it exists in a vacuum that's exclusively about why don't you love or desire me I think that's problem

0:32:50 Thomas: And I think that's common and important. Yeah, I think I want to take a middle position. Sorry, go ahead.

0:33:35 Eli: I thought he was doing the sarcasm thing where you cough like a fake answer to someone's thing, but he was just coughing.

0:33:39 Thomas: I wanted to answer, but my throat is killing me. I want To take a Middle Position on this one, which is that I do think the implication here is that it's things he can do. I do Think that that's the strong implication of the post. And where I maybe agree with Eli a little bit to take A Middle Position is if this were in the context of take a hypothetical 50 -50, it's two dudes who adopted a child, and it's It's exactly 50 -50 equal parenting thing. Like that would be kind of insane to be like, we're both the parents here. Why are you setting a bunch of like things that I need to achieve in order for you to be into me? But it's not in that context. Like I think the context is a lot of heterosexual marriages in this country. And I think it's within that context, I think if you divorce it from all contexts, then yeah, it does seem a little bit crazy. But I think The Important Thing here is that it can be sort of assumed that libido is going to be more or less okay in a relationship. All things being equal, like all things being taken care of, but these are, as Tom said, I think he was right on, these are the breaks. These are the, for this woman, these are the things that are getting in the way.

0:34:41 Tom: You think nothing should get in the way I mean because that's like I'll tell you you can be in a great relationship with somebody and things can get in the way people get sick

0:34:50 Eli: So for me, I think it's about anything can get in the way. Like the reason, maybe the core problem I have with this is the reason to have sex with someone or not have sex with someone is that you want to or don't want to have sex with someone. The minute you bring in outside labor, and Thomas, I think you make a great point. When you bring in outside forces, for instance, how much you let the toddler touch me tonight into our sex lives, I become a babysitter you paid in fine. That has nothing to do with me, right? Because the implication is you could bring Could I bring in an outside force to get you to sleep and three meals a day and then you'd fuck them?

0:35:22 Tom: Understand this

0:35:21 Thomas: What? Yeah, I don't think I get it. No, that's not.

0:35:32 Eli: Would you fuck the really good nanny that I hired?

0:35:33 Tom: No that's crazy

0:35:33 Thomas: Actually, that actually might, in her equation, solve the problem. If they hired somebody to help her get more hours of sleep and more meals and all that, maybe that's the way we're reading this differently. I would take that to mean she would have sex with the husband more.

0:35:45 Eli: Oh, I take that to mean she would have sex with the nanny because the nanny is the one reducing the factors.

0:35:46 Tom: Yeah a hundred percent no No, that's crazy. No.

0:35:48 Thomas: No, no, no. Mom libido doesn't mean, mom libido is the equation. It's not sexual attraction to the entity that does these things.

0:35:57 Tom: I get, okay, so I understand. Eli, I think I get your point.

0:36:00 Thomas: It's like, hold on. Look, another quick example. So sorry, Tom. What if for Tom, let's say we'll take Tom. I'm not going to take me. We'll take, cause I'm always down to fuck. There's no, there's no difference. I'm a hundred percent. My equation is just a hundred, but let's say Tom is stressed out of his mind. And how much will you notice? Yeah. Minus the makeup equation. Yeah. The bandage equation and the coefficient. No, but I'll take time. Just for fun. Tom is overworked to death. Let's say Tom is always DTF. And it's me and Tom. I'm not going to talk about Haley.

0:36:07 Tom: I get what?

0:36:07 Eli: I was going to say, Thomas, you're a terrible example. Am I actively bleeding from my dick in a place that you would have to be touched in order to fuck? Oh there's a diagram of all the places he could be bleeding and he is

0:36:34 Thomas: He's always DTF me in our relationship, but he's like, Hey, here's the problem. The amount of libido that I have is honestly, it's good normally, but you got to subtract out how stressed I am from work. Like I'm just so stressed all the time at work that I just, I'm not into it. Sometimes I wouldn't be like, Oh, so you want to work? Like if work solves it, solves it. If you get a new assistant, it's like, no, No, it's like, that's a thing that's taken away from Tom's libido. I trust that Tom would fuck me normally.

0:36:36 Eli: Your tiny spoon

0:36:53 Tom: So if you get an assistant, yeah, yeah?

0:37:02 Thomas: He tells me all the time. That's why I'm his little spoon.

0:37:02 Eli: He does text you

0:37:05 Tom: Those text messages, keep them to yourselves. But I think, I get it. Eli, I think the heart of your concern, which is I think right -headed, although I disagree with you about most everything you've said, is that you don't want sex to be seen as a reward in a relationship for actions performed informed by one partner, like service done. Right. Am I, am I understand? Yeah. I, I 100 % agree with that. Right? I think sex as a reward is a deeply problematic way to structure a relationship and a sexual connection with somebody. I think six as a award for chores, sex as reward for listening to somebody, sex is a reward for appearing to care about somebody, which is by by the way, a lot of house things get structured. That's

0:37:52 Eli: Right

0:37:52 Tom: A nightmare. That is an absolute nightmare. I don't think that's actually the heart of what's being said here, but I understand that that's where you're going. I think that you've got, like, that is a concern I feel like is real. I think there's a very real concern. I Think relationships where sex is structured as a reward for doing the dishes and pitching in enough at home or whatever is a fucking mess. And I will say that's a super common message that men get. Like men get that message. I want to validate all of that for you. Men get that massage. I used to believe that. So as I will say, like, I'll raise my hand. I used to think, personally, because those messages, I was like, okay, cool, message received. Okay, cool. Message received. Like, as long as I do enough of these parts of labor and commit enough and do enough stuff at home then that is gonna result in a situation where like you know that it'll it'll create sexual desire that's not true that's like none of that is true and none of that is good and all of that is bad and that messaging is toxic and horrible and should be fucking ejected into space I do think that like focusing on like hey there are things which affect libido and some of them are within your control some of them are outside of your control, but libido is not a static thing.

0:38:50 Eli: Of course yeah

0:39:13 Tom: Libido is not something that is created because I love you and because you love me.

0:39:16 Thomas: You know, take my work example. Do you find that valid, Eli? Does that make sense? At least in itself. Now take that. Let me add one thing to it and then you can respond. Take that and then be like, okay, Lydia and I actually both work together on the podcast. If I was like, hey, I'm just too stressed from work. The implication could be like, yeah, okay, help me with the work and then I'll fuck you.

0:39:20 Eli: Yeah no I I think I

0:39:35 Thomas: And then you could read that as like, oh, I'm just trying to fuck someone for the work they're doing. That's an economic transaction. Like, no, I look at the raising the kids is kind of like that.

0:39:35 Eli: Right right yeah so I I think you both make really good points which is and let me let me say where I think I'm wrong I think this video is about an exercise in empathy. An exercise in understanding why I may or may not be in the mood. It is not a structured system of reward in order for you to earn sex. So as a way of measuring empathy, I think it's interesting. I have a lot of issues with it. I have, I have A LOT of issues With it. There's a lot Of follow -up conversations that I would want to have with my partner about the relationship between parenting and sex and all that kind of stuff. But that aside, as an exercise in empathy, I think it's very useful. I think, you know, it is impossible to divorce it from that baggage of do the dishes, you get sex, that men have been sent their whole lives, that is really toxic and harmful. And I think she is playing more into that dynamic than she is willing to admit. It I think she has I think she began this tiktok video on the mot of if I didn't have to be touched by my kids tonight I would fuck you and she has retreated to the bailey of oh well it's really about understanding why libido might be greater or lesser that this is about an exercise in empathy

0:41:06 Thomas: I still don't. I was almost with you until that last part. Tom, am I crazy? Like that still sounds totally reasonable. I want to make very clear. My libido does not change based on the kids pawing at me. It still has no connection to it. And so maybe that's the disconnect because I get it. But Lydia has expressed that when the kids are all over her all the time, yeah, it does affect her libido. So I don't understand. I wouldn't read that as some like, I don't even know how you're reading.

0:41:29 Thomas: I would read that is, well, that sucks. Maybe I can do something to help that. But I wouldn't read that is like, oh, that's a transaction that I'm making. You know, I don't get it.

0:41:42 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:41:43 Tom: I think too that there's a really big disconnect here in the way that like these conversations get framed that I think is really important to talk about. Like I think men hear something like this and they think, okay, because I want something that I'm not getting, I am going to solve this problem, right? Whereas I I think very often the other side of the equation is like, hey, if you want to know why this thing isn't happening, it's because of this. At least this is a factor to it. And rather than trying to understand and empathize to your point, Eli, rather than try to be like, Hey, I should actually understand my partner better. Men are like, well, I did the dishes. So I don't know why you're not fucking me. And it's, that's a problem, right? If the, if the thing is like look, I am trying to to say, there are these things that, that I am not feeling it. And these things are affecting it. And I think that actually should open up a broader conversation of, Hey, do you feel supported here? Like, do you feel loved? Like what way, in what ways can I show you love differently outside of a sexual environment? Because clearly there's a disconnect here and you don't feel taken care of. You don't feeling supported. You don't feel loved. You feel overworked at home. Like I hear that. Let's talk about that. And let's talk about that outside the context of sex.

0:43:03 Tom: That, I think, is very much what is trying to be... I think very often that conversation is very clumsily being alluded to. And I think the problem is that men hear, well, I want to solve this problem so that I meet my needs. I did the dishes. Wow.

0:43:15 Eli: Right but by putting it in the context of mom libido I think it is by definition in the context of sex I think it is by definition taking advantage of that baggage of do the dishes and I'll fuck you and I think I think it is being retreated to I just want some understanding I just want some empathy this is about work-life balance this is about parenting balance so that unless you are a man right because what this situation has resulted in is unless you you are a man who fulfills the formula and then still expects nothing. Unless you are a man, who fulfils the formula to make sure that I have all my needs met and then expects nothing, you are definitionally a villain. I know I'm the one who brought up sex. I'm the one who showed you the formula for mom libido. But here we are, you filled out the mom libido and if you tried to fill out that formula with mom libido in mind, you're a villain you're just in it for sex you're only doing nice things for sex this to me plays on some very very unhealthy dynamics about sex that I that I I think again I hear you I hear you on the empathy thing and if this had just been a how happy I am as a mom score I'd be a thousand percent in favor of it right or how much energy I have or how good I'm feeling or how loved Right? Like those conversations I am 100 % open to. It is when it is framed within the context of sexuality. And when that's, when that context of spirituality directly, in this case, because we're assuming monogamous partners, right? Right? When that context directly affects my sex life, I think we're not being honest if we don't admit that there is at least part of that dynamic being invoked. Part of that do the dishes and I'll fuck you dynamic being involved. Now, to be clear, and I want to be very clear because our audience can be very ungenerous. I am never saying you owe anyone sex ever under any circumstances, no matter what you do, no matter how you feel, I don't think anyone is ever owed sex. I think the only reason you should have sex is because you enthusiastically, with complete knowledge, want to have sex. But I think if you bring up my sex life in a conversation about housework, you are at least implying that I am going to have six if I do your housework.

0:45:47 Tom: Okay. So I think that that's... I think you are. Yeah, I think you're wildly wrong.

0:45:50 Eli: Am I wildly wrong? Thomas is quiet in the way that I usually only is when I'm very wrong.

0:45:56 Tom: I think you're wildly

0:45:57 Thomas: I think you're pretty off.

0:45:57 Tom: Off base with this. Yeah. I really do. Okay.

0:45:58 Eli: I'm never wrong, though, guys. Okay, let's just consider the fact that I'm never wrong.

0:46:04 Thomas: That's a good point.

0:46:04 Eli: Take as a given that I've never wronged.

0:46:04 Tom: Well, when you put it in that, let me offer a perspective that I think might be different. So I think that there are things where if these preconditions are met, I'm definitely not having sex, right? Like if I've got the flu, I am not having sex. That's it. I got the flu. I'm puking. I am NOT having sex. THAT'S IT. I'M FUCKING, I'M EXHAUSTED.

0:46:20 Eli: Thomas, you're going to have to try to relate to this part of the podcast. I know this was really... How long between pukes?

0:46:21 Thomas: Yeah, I'm trying. I don't, ah, man, I

0:46:23 Tom: Like I think for everybody yeah right yeah thomas is still

0:46:27 Thomas: Remember I had a gruesome injury one time and then, you know, we were going to go to bed and I was still moaning in pain. And, you Know, I was like, well, I still want to have sex though. She's like, what?

0:46:34 Eli: Still don't have sex, though.

0:46:36 Thomas: What? I was like, well now I really need it. Like I'm good. I'm dying. How, how am I going to fuck it? Yeah. It was just very, we had to be careful. It was again,

0:46:36 Tom: Should fool around yeah

0:46:36 Eli: We're not going to skip sex. Just don't do it on that side. It's very obvious. Yeah. I'll hang it off the edge of the bed.

0:46:45 Tom: Like I think like you kind of came close to it eli that if somebody is saying I don't feel entirely loved I don't feel entirely supported I feel stressed out I am not gonna like yes all of those things are gonna mean we're not having sex most people feel that

0:47:02 Thomas: It's libido. I really think you're just misreading it as the attraction to, or wanting to have sex with a person, but this is just her baseline libido I think this has to be read with the assumption that things are kind of hunky-dory normally you know you don't read this with the assumption that like if she meets a stranger on the street and they do these things for her she's gonna fuck that stranger this is within the context of a relationship where libido where attraction is there

0:47:03 Tom: Way right right yeah I think that's a crazy thing yeah right yeah there are there are things that kill our libido like and that's just a true thing like there are libido killing events contexts relationship styles and they may vary from person to person so if somebody says like hey these are the things that I this kills my libido if these needs aren't met that need is not gonna fire for me that's normal I think that's very normal and I don't think that says do the dishes and I'll fuck you but I think it does say if I don't feel supported at home, that's going to materially affect my desire to have sex. I think that's normal and that's very healthy and okay.

0:47:32 Thomas: Look

0:47:58 Eli: That really sounds like don't -do -the -dishes -and -I -won't -fuck -you. You and I think I think

0:48:02 Tom: Yeah, but look, the reverse can be true.

0:48:03 Thomas: I'm going into a diabetic coma I would fuck you but I don't have my insulin can you go get me my insulin over there oh am I just a drug mule for You'll only fuck me if I go get drugs for you is that what you're saying

0:48:14 Tom: Look, Eli, think of it. Let's cut dishes out of it real quick. And I know we got to wrap up, but let's cut dishes out of real quick and say, well, if I'm not nice to you, you're not going to fuck me? Well, yeah. Versus, well wait a minute. If I'm nice to sometimes you'll fuck me and sometimes you won't. Yes. Right. But if I'm not nice to you, you're never going to fuck me. Right. Yes, of course. If you're not nice to me, I'm never gonna fuck you. There are things that we do with and for our partners. And as a family where they're like, yeah, if these things don't get done, like I'm 100% of the time not going to be in the mood. I like if Haley and I are fighting, right? Like I we are not a couple that like, fucks after fighting, right like we are not a makeup sex couple right we are that's

0:48:35 Thomas: Yeah yeah yeah you do before

0:49:01 Tom: Not me I don't like it yeah yeah it's fuck first fuck first yeah I don't. That's

0:49:03 Eli: Valentine's day yeah

0:49:05 Thomas: Yeah you don't want to be in a full fight stomach you know you don' t want to I ate this whole

0:49:07 Eli: You've been I noticed you're starting to be kind of a bitch do you wanna do you want to bang one out some hand stuff

0:49:11 Tom: Take out dishes and say what about being nice why is that different because the answer is not if I'm nice then you're gonna fuck me if i'M nice then you might fuck me you might not but I'll tell you what if iM not nice you're definitely not fucking me so that's fair and that's normal

0:49:23 Thomas: Fight yeah yeah

0:49:31 Eli: Maybe it is setting up this causal relationship that makes me feel

0:49:35 Thomas: Yes of niceness to fucking yes 100 hundred

0:49:37 Eli: It makes me feel icky

0:49:40 Thomas: Percent don't want to have to be nice

0:49:40 Eli: I don't like causal I here's what I don'T I DON'T like when someone's like I I have a series of conditions around sex, and I'm like, whatever, whatever it is, right?

0:49:50 Tom: But everybody does

0:49:53 Thomas: It's not sex it's libido

0:49:54 Eli: And then, and you're like, okay, cool, all right, so, because the implication, because again, I want to be clear, because there's someone, I know for a fact, someone is going to lie about my opinion, right, there's nothing

0:50:08 Thomas: Who cares they don't need to it's already bad without

0:50:08 Eli: I can do to prevent someone from, right. It's already bad, it's already, it'S ALREADY a bad take, so you don't need to lie, right?, Because what people are going to imply about my opinion is that you ever owe someone sex, which is not what I'm saying.

0:50:12 Tom: Man

0:50:20 Thomas: That yeah yeah

0:50:20 Tom: Yeah I think you've been super clear on that

0:50:22 Eli: Right. But what I am saying is when you say, here are the conditions to enter my maze, traveler.

0:50:31 Eli: Sometimes you will enter the maze and sometimes you will not, but never with a green gem. I don't think that's how we should approach sex. I don't think my if you have a thing that's affecting my sex

0:50:46 Thomas: Lydia wants a green gem I'll get a fucking green gem what's your problem Yeah, I know.

0:50:49 Eli: Exactly that's the thing right is your the implication there is that if I come in with a red gem I'm getting sex

0:50:55 Thomas: All right. Okay. You can find the red gem. How hard is it to find a red gem?

0:50:56 Tom: All right like but like

0:51:00 Thomas: I brought a bunch of them.

0:50:59 Eli: I I'm picturing thomas on his end of the computer with just every color gem

0:51:02 Tom: I bought every red gem in

0:51:03 Thomas: I got a bunch of different colors. I don't know. Whatever, whatever.

0:51:06 Eli: Yellow green. I painted this one blue because I couldn't find one that's it's is that crazy is this is this idea of saying hey this is when if you're not nice to me is when we have sex but when you are nice to me still it all just feels very like I have a bunch of rules about your sex life for

0:51:10 Tom: America but yes of course people have rules yeah that's just

0:51:28 Thomas: No, it's, I have a baseline attraction to you, but here are things you can do that will blow that.

0:51:33 Tom: Yeah everybody is that way like I like I could we could the mood could be absolutely just

0:51:39 Thomas: You got to wash your dick.

0:51:39 Tom: Right and then I could do something, yeah,

0:51:41 Eli: You let me

0:51:41 Thomas: If you don't wash your dick, I'm not fucking you.

0:51:44 Eli: Let me give an example we talked about this the other day in an episode I know we need to wrap up but we talked about this the other day in the episode

0:51:47 Thomas: All right, we're canceling the story.

0:51:49 Eli: Yes you know when I was younger there were a lot of sexual situations that I was in where someone would say hey and we talked about this when we had a listener who had a not cash money experience where someone would say hey I only want to do blank tonight and I would say hey that is totally okay let's not do anything because you don't feel comfortable and oftentimes that person would go no no I still want to do some stuff I just don't want to do this thing or I don't want to do that I'd only like to kiss tonight and all that and I'd say say, hey, I want you to feel entirely comfortable about sexual experience before we do anything. I don't want you to get caught up in the moment. I don't want you to change your mind. I don't want you to feel differently later. And so I would say, let's just hang out. Let's go get some dinner. Let's go to the movies. Let's do something in this non-sexual context so that that weight is not on the relationship. Now, largely, it was to make sure that person felt safe. That person got to enjoy their evening and not go, oh God, I really hope Eli doesn't try and push my boundaries. I really hope he doesn't try and push boundaries, which I think is a valid concern for a lot of the partners I had as a young person. But another reason was that my comfort was I never want another person to go, here's how much sex you've earned little boy, three steps forward and one step back. Unless we have literally written that as a scene, right? There's, there are a couple scenarios but she was dressed in leather you know what I'm saying where someone gets to make those kind of rules and it feels maybe this is just me maybe this isn't my homophobia against little spoons it feels real yucky for someone to tell me about my sex life in the context of chores is

0:53:38 Eli: I'm crazy

0:53:39 Tom: You're absolutely beside yourself bonkers. Yeah, I think that that's an insane take. Start to finish. Like, I don't, I think that's insane.

0:53:46 Eli: Thomas thomas crazy

0:53:49 Thomas: I mean, I think I've said, I, I think we're just circling. I don't know. I think it's just, you're reading, you're reading assumptions into this that,

0:53:53 Eli: Damn all right all right well I'm wrong I apologize I apologize for being wrong. I apologize.

0:53:58 Tom: Real quick, because it's not just your sex life. It's a sex life,

0:53:58 Thomas: And now I'm not going to fuck you. You need to be right more often or I'm NOT fucking you.

0:54:03 Tom: It's not just your sex life. Somebody isn't just making rules for your sex life, this is sex you're sharing with somebody. Everybody has to be on the same page and everybody gets to decide what turns them on and what turns them off. And if they communicate to you that these are the things that turn me off and when they're present in my life, I am not going to be able to be turned on. They're not making a comment just about your sex life. They're making a comment about the sex life you share together. And everybody in a sex life that they share together has veto power. I don't know. Yeah.

0:54:37 Thomas: Eli, let's talk about our fucking relationship. So you and I, to see if I can bring it home in an example. You, yeah, no, but let's pretend that our libidos are different. Well, no. I get to be me. I will fuck you whenever. Let's pretend your libido's different

0:54:39 Eli: Yes. Okay. Let's do it. Thomas will fuck me literally whenever. Okay. Let's say I think Adnan is innocent.

0:54:51 Thomas: Yeah or well what I was gonna say is let's say you get really bothered when I'm late to shit and you're tired of me being late or or not even me specifically just people in general and you see it as like when I am late to our sex sessions or our recordings you're like god damn it that makes me feel like thomas doesn't it makes me be like Thomas doesn't actually care about whatever and

0:55:06 Eli: I was waiting in this phone booth for hours.

0:55:12 Thomas: So you're you're look I'm normally DTF, you know me, Thomas. I'm I'm

0:55:12 Eli: I cut the hole in the phone booth.

0:55:18 Thomas: Into you but then you're but when you're it's one minus the times that you're late you know like I'm just, I don't feel it when you're late. Yeah, it's like, it just takes me out of the mood. I don't feel, you know, like sexy anymore. I don't want to do it. That's not saying like, okay, if you answer my riddles three, it's just like, here's a thing that I should probably look at if I'm worried about you being in the mood,

0:55:23 Tom: It's irritating yeah it's the same it's it's literally the same thing if something irritates me then like it's like saying like look I don't like to have sex when I have a rock in my shoe like okay well it's fine it doesn't mean that you want to have sex it doesn'T mean every time I don't have a rock in my shoe I want to have sex it just means that I don't ever want to have sex when there's a rock in my shoe I don't like to have sex when I'm irritated is a perfectly normal stance

0:55:45 Thomas: God, I'm missing out. You guys don't do anything fun, do you?

0:55:47 Eli: Oh, you got to do rock in your shoe sex, Tom. It's going to change your whole world.

0:56:02 Tom: To take I don't get it like I yeah being irritated isn't a turn on like yeah so cool oh

0:56:12 Eli: All right. I'll take your guys' word for it. I apologize in advance apologize to all the people hopefully you've listened to this show and you're not just listening to lies somewhere on a fucking twitter or whatever it is but I apologize in advanced wrong hi all right well maybe I'm wrong maybe I'm wrong I'm sure I'm wrong and I'm sorry I'm so sorry for being wrong gentlemen before we go why do sharks swim in salt water because pepper water would make them sneeze

0:56:35 Clip: Dear old dad

0:56:51 Thomas: I gotta tell the kids that one. I like that one,

0:56:51 Tom: God that's a good one that's

0:56:54 Eli: Yeah when I found that one I was like, Thomas is going to use that one on the kids.

0:56:57 Thomas: Though. So the parenting story is Eli's wrong. Everybody talk amongst yourselves.

0:57:02 Eli: Yeah, that's wrong. And I'm still a parent. And I'm still a parent. Talk disgust.

0:57:07 Tom: Terrible how

0:57:54 Eli: Boy, I can't hold my head still because I hockey too much. So sometimes I'm getting pegged.

0:58:00 Thomas: I'm not allowed to comment on the math. Fuck.

0:58:04 Tom: Are you gonna fuck without touching

0:58:08 Eli: But six o'clock is time for fuck fuckums.

0:58:12 Thomas: Boy, I sure would love to have sex with my husband, but he never washes his fucking dick.

0:58:18 Tom: But if I'm not nice to you you're never gonna fuck me

0:58:23 Thomas: Am I the only one who gets hornier when I'm tired?

0:58:26 Eli: Here are the conditions to enter my maze, traveler.