DOD211: Throuple to Couple to Throuple

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad, that's my thing I know now what I can offer you that no one else can Complete and under-dependent I'm a man, I'm sensitive I need to feel loved, I need part of being a father that I enjoy

0:00:29 Eli: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's not afraid of being afraid. I'm Eli Bosnick, and I'm joined once again by Thomas and Lydia Smith. Thomas, Lydia, welcome to the show.

0:00:35 Thomas: Interesting.

0:00:41 Lydia: Why, hello.

0:00:43 Thomas: Speaking of being afraid, we started talking about for some reason. Oh, it was the brushed teeth discussion, the dentist. I was reminded that I had the worst dentist appointment of my, of anyone's life. No, I can't, I'm uncomfortable with even

0:00:51 Lydia: Yes, I didn't even hear about it. Can you tell me? Really?

0:00:56 Eli: Oh, take us there.

0:00:56 Thomas: Talking about it, but, uh, oh, sorry. Did we establish Thomas still at a doctor's appointment? Sorry. We should have said, yeah,

0:01:01 Eli: Tom's still at a doctor's appointment. Sometimes we do two in a week. And you know what? Tom looks at his calendar and he says, fuck it. We're doing it anyways. Yeah, exactly. So there's nothing. Tom's not here. You're stuck with me and the Smiths. That's OK, because we're about to hear what

0:01:08 Thomas: Even better time to have a doctor. Disappointment dental talk baby as

0:01:15 Eli: Fucked up shit happened to T -Dog's talk. What happened?

0:01:19 Thomas: A millennial and as a me you know how much it takes for me to like complain about something to a person I'll complain about to you guys but like to a no no

0:01:27 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. I was like, wait a second.

0:01:29 Thomas: To a to be very clear either leave like not a tip or like complain to a manager type thing I haven't but I'm considering it that's how bad this was I might I might call and be like you you can't give me that dental hygienist again.

0:01:35 Eli: Yeah. No, for sure. Sure.

0:01:45 Thomas: Like it's, it was that fucking bad.

0:01:47 Eli: What happened? How bad?

0:01:47 Thomas: And you know how bad that has to be. They took out my teeth. I don't have, no, this

0:01:51 Eli: Yeah. They ripped your teeth out of your skull.

0:01:53 Thomas: Guy had maybe never done it before. And he was like shaking the whole time for like an hour. And so maybe, maybe he just shakes, which I have all the sympathy in order for, except if you're a dentist, then you can'T do that. You can't do it.

0:01:58 Lydia: My god. Oh no yeah

0:02:09 Eli: Except if you're in my mouth, except if you were in your mouth. Yeah.

0:02:09 Lydia: Yeah holding sharp instruments like yeah you can't do that

0:02:13 Thomas: Yeah. Even if he doesn't drop anything, you might not realize how fucking uncomfortable that is just like to be able to feel someone shaking while they're doing that. It's like the most uncomfortable thing ever. And then he can't do anything like he's.

0:02:27 Lydia: But it was just a cleaning right

0:02:28 Thomas: Yeah, just a cleaning. If it was an actual like, you know, filling or something, I'd be like, no, like I'm not doing this. It got close. It got close to where I was like, do I leave? Like, how do how do I? And it took forever. He couldn't I could tell that he just didn't know what he was doing or was too he just I don't know I don'T KNOW WHAT IT IS IF HE NEEDS LIKE A LOT MORE PRACTICE OR IF THAT'S HOW HE ALWAYS IS BUT IT WAS SO FUCKING BAD THAT LIKE ELI YOU WOULD HAVE BURNED THE PLACE DOWN BUT LIKE OTHER MILLENNIALS do you yeah

0:02:32 Lydia: With treatment yeah wow

0:02:59 Eli: I am the bad example. Cause someone like does the tiniest thing and I just get up and leave. I'll push over the whole, you know, they have that little tray of instruments. I'm just like, Oh, I flipped that thing over. You can't be a dentist right now. Cause that thing I flipped over. Yeah. Because the thing that happens in my head, and we've talked about this on the show before, is if someone else breaks the social contract, there is no social contract and there are no laws.

0:03:05 Thomas: The scene from batman the mirror the mirror

0:03:24 Eli: So my thing is like, oh my God, I would never tip of less than 25 % in an Uber unless he breaks the Social Contract. Then your car's my car now. This is my car. If we don't agree on rules, it's my card.

0:03:39 Lydia: You guys I think we're having our our first three bears moment the three of us together because I am the person that I would just hope I would never got them again I wouldn't say anything thing ever, ever.

0:03:49 Thomas: Well that's what I might be though I might be that if I call or email I'm like you can't give me that guy again that feels rough like I feel am I gonna cost someone their job but he really shouldn't be doing this job

0:04:01 Eli: Shouldn't be doing his job, should he?

0:04:02 Lydia: Did you get hurt at all or was it more just like anxiety? Okay.

0:04:04 Thomas: Only mildly only mildly no it wasn't anxiety it's just fucking weird just uncomfortable yeah it's just like god it's it's weird speaking of social contract you have a lot of abstract thoughts like that when someone's doing dental work on you that is shaking and doesn't know how to do it you're like boy you might wonder how I ended up here you know you're just like what to do in this if this guy was a murderer who was impersonating a dentist I could see see why that would work. Cause you'd be like, how long am I going to put up? Like after one stabbing, will I say something, you know, or like how, at what point of death will I be like? You know, this is not the best dental work. There's so much social convention going into that.

0:04:08 Lydia: Disturbing. Yeah. Yeah. Freeze frame. Yeah,

0:04:46 Eli: Yeah. So much trust.

0:04:47 Thomas: Now, anyway, just remind me of that fucking sucked. I don't know. I'm not sure what,

0:04:50 Eli: But Thomas, you know the only thing worse than your dental appointment? Why, it's the auto ads. Yes, the auto adds streaming into your ears, ruining your podcast experience. But you can make them go away. You can make they go away like Thomas is going to make this man's dental career go away, yes. Over at patreon.com forward slash dear old dads where for our new 27 .36 dollar patron level we will send you the video of thomas's dental hygienist taking his own life most of you saw it on the news but uh after he miraculously rose through the ranks of dental hygienists school after the stroke that he had that of course killed his wife and daughter his His first ever day he operated on Thomas.

0:05:37 Eli: Thomas got him immediately fired and he killed himself on Twitch. And you can do all of that over at patreon.com forward slash dear old dads. You'll also get a commercial free version of every show. Little parenting story at the end. I made an Uber driver fear for his life with my weirdness. And you'll only know about it over at Patreon .com. Forward slash dear. Old. Dads. Rip into it.

0:05:37 Lydia: My god yeah

0:06:01 Thomas: Rip into my gums. He couldn't use the little mirror thing. He kept trying and would mess up and would stab me. And so, and this, this is true. Hold on. This is true, so he would just use his fingers. He started just holding my, holding my mouth open with his fingers, and I was like, I'm actually okay with this. This Is better, this Is better than you stabbing me in the gums repeatedly with a mirror. So just get it done.

0:06:07 Eli: It's just pink pink pink pink pink yeah just bouncing around in there so again to three bears it Lydia's got fingers in her mouth and she's like whatever I sure hope this doesn't happen again I'm instantly biting off the finger nom nom nom that's not a finger anymore that's a little apology snack thanks for the apology snack you want to feed me another one all right

0:06:55 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:06:58 Thomas: Dude, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry part of it too is I'm it's okay. It's a 25 minute drive and I'm so fucking busy. You know how bad it has to be for me to be like, I need another appointment. I need to come back here. I don't care if it is the best dentist of all time that I would be coming back to or the hygienist. You Know How, the threshold in our fucking busy lives for me to be no, I needs to go through this again with a different person on a different day where I drive a total of an hour roughly round trip. He could have taken three of my teeth before I would have said something. Yeah.

0:07:11 Eli: Smiths yeah no I think that he could have taken a tonsil or two and you would have been like oh well what are you gonna do yeah that seems intense all right well smiths I've gathered you here today because tom doesn't give a fuck about our podcast but I've also gathered you because we get a lot of questions over at the dear old dad's mailbox did you know that you can email us for our our admittedly piss -poor advice to thedads at drolldads.com. That's right, thedadds at drolldadds.com, send us an email for the advice you want us to read on the show. Don't send us an email, for private inquiry, because that's not what that email box is for. But we get a lot of questions about polyamory. And obviously, your boy Eli Bosnick, he works in polyamority whenever ever he gets a chance right I object during every wedding vows I just go oh me I think exclusive love is a bad construct uh that's why I don't get invited to a lot of weddings but smiths you're living the life you're living the dream as a poly family making it work in the healthiest possible way and so I thought you might join me in answering some of our listener poly questions questions.

0:07:59 Thomas: That's great advice. I want a better song than that. Can you try again?

0:08:49 Lydia: Yeah.

0:08:50 Eli: Listener Poly questions. All right. Yeah, exactly. Remix it.

0:08:53 Thomas: Okay. All right. I'm going to use them both. Stream them together. Yeah.

0:08:59 Eli: All right. Shall we jump in?

0:09:00 Thomas: Yeah, let's do it.

0:09:01 Eli: All right, Poly questions. Hey, dads. Long -time listener, first -time emailer. I just want to start this email with an apology to Tom as I'm sure this isn't your wheelhouse. Don't worry. I'm not going to bother to show up today.

0:09:14 Eli: There's a lot of literature now available about the different family dynamics and structures out there for child. Rearing? I assume rearing. Unfortunately, polyamory still seems to be a very taboo subject because we're not into the boys and girls, aren't we?

0:09:22 Thomas: Child.

0:09:29 Lydia: Yeah.

0:09:29 Eli: Do you intend on explaining polyamORY to your children? If you do, when slash how do you think you would do this? I'm in an ethical, non -monogamous relationship and worry about how to explain that. I want them to grow up understanding it's a choice me and my partner have made with love and respect for one another, but if they don't choose that for themselves that's okay I also don't want them to feel it's something that should be hidden any advice is much appreciated thank you for reading so smiths you're in this sitch talk to the people I've told you I am non-consensually monogamous because nobody wants to fuck me this is not an issue that has come up in my marriage in a really really really long time So, yeah, we are. This is not something that I can speak to. Certainly not while I had a child.

0:09:57 Thomas: Oh, so are you. What are you doing? No

0:10:20 Eli: So take us through it, Smiths.

0:10:22 Lydia: We haven't really like explicitly talked about this with the kids, but I will say I was driving the kids around one day and Phoebe and Arlo have been giving Remy like a hard time about his crushes at school because Remy has a couple couple crushes. At school and they ask him you know but

0:10:24 Thomas: I don't really want to talk to them about it yeah well he has names that he says

0:10:39 Lydia: Well the teachers have told me that they think he has a crush on this one person because he always wants to play with her and but he he likes that one little girl and then he also likes another little girl. And so then the kids will ask him you know oh do you want to marry so -and -so or do you wanna marry so and so.

0:10:43 Eli: They're fucking.

0:10:44 Thomas: That's yeah well what I love about remy is he's been like yes he'll just be he'll own it and and the other thing about us is I'm not gonna tease any our kids for that at all like I'm never gonna I'm just like oh is there someone you like because I just think it's done I don' t like that like Like, I just hate that whole fucking thing.

0:10:58 Lydia: Yeah he loves No. The kids do that to each other. Yeah.

0:11:12 Eli: You don't like explicitly associating shame and physical affection. That's crazy. What weirdos.

0:11:17 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. But even before any influence of that, I feel like, because I hadn't even thought of it with Remy, because he's just the, first off, he's a wild animal. He's not, do you think about a fox like dating? No, I shouldn't. That's a bad example, because then I think all the furries will think about foxes. Do you think, do I think about the foxes? Do you, do think about porcupines dating? No, you probably do. Yeah, all that, nevermind. Raccoons? Yeah, you're right. Um, do you think about who your lizard is dating? Yeah, probably that too. God damn it. Okay. Well, anyway, Remy's a wild animal. Yeah.

0:11:23 Lydia: He's two and a half. Yes.

0:11:30 Eli: You just lost so many of our fucking patrons, Thomas. Yeah, hey, stop costing us money, Thomas, stop causing us money right now. Now, hey, furries, yes, a lot. They do that a lot, and they're the ones who pay our bills. Fucking check out a Patreon profile picture sometime, my man.

0:11:50 Lydia: Well, there's Ada and there's Alex. Yeah, Alex is the new one.

0:11:53 Thomas: Who was the, who was the girl, hun? Who was The, Otta? Yeah. So there's Otta. Oh, I didn't know there was Alex. Yeah. Ducks. They're the only ones.

0:12:01 Eli: Ducks, those children. Fuck yeah. What are their last names?

0:12:05 Lydia: Yes, Ada.

0:12:05 Thomas: Yeah. But Otta, he would just be like, yeah, Otter. And the funny thing was the kids would try to tease him. The big kids would try. Oh, Remy, who do you like? And he'd be like, Ada. And I'd be, like, yeah, fucking A. Awesome, dude.

0:12:17 Eli: Hell yeah.

0:12:17 Thomas: He'll just say it. He has no shame about it. I love it.

0:12:19 Lydia: So he liked Ada from the beginning, but then he and Alex are getting close. And I've been there for drop offs and pickups when Alex is getting dropped off and picked up. And they do have a connection.

0:12:23 Thomas: Oh, wow. Okay. That must be awkward.

0:12:29 Eli: You see that spark?

0:12:29 Lydia: They do have an connection. I'll be honest. I do.

0:12:30 Thomas: I see cold room when Ada comes in when Alex is still there. You know, it's just, oof, tension.

0:12:34 Lydia: I do And so I mentioned that to the kids. And so now the kids are teasing him about like, oh, who do you want to marry, Alex or Ada? And then, you know, he'll answer differently depending on the day. But one day we're driving around and they asked him and he answered. And then Phoebe was like, Mom, can you have a girlfriend or a boyfriend after you're married? And I was like. Well. Yeah. I mean, you can. It depends on what kind of relationship you want.

0:12:57 Thomas: Funny story. Yeah. You could.

0:13:02 Eli: One can. Why? What have you heard?

0:13:07 Thomas: Yeah. There's a lot of things Phoebe asks that feel like targeted in that way. But, but also she just is, she's our one observant child, brilliant observantchild who just notices things about the world and is like, hey, this is interesting. What about this?

0:13:08 Lydia: Like she knows. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:13:22 Thomas: Which I love. But yeah, it feels targeted, but I don't think it was. Was. Yeah.

0:13:24 Eli: You'd have to make some bokoblins be poly before arlo would

0:13:29 Thomas: Well, okay. On that note, we're playing Stardew Valley now. And so he actually does know about some of the rules of things because he's like, wait, can you marry a villager and then also marry another? I'm like, not in the Switch version, not the Nintendo Switch. We don't have the mods.

0:13:44 Eli: Understand daddy's gotta mod it wow

0:13:44 Thomas: There's a polyamory mod, but I don't like playing that stuff. I like playing just the Nintendo Switch version because it is what it is. I don'T like that it could be changed, all these these things. I want to just know what the game does, you know, exactly. Hey, everyone else. No, except I let everyone else do it though. I'm not, I'm actually judging people who, yeah. Anyway, sorry. So what was, so you answered, uh, yeah,

0:13:53 Eli: And you're a boomer that's and you just described every monogamous person I'll send you to jail if you mod your fucking stardom

0:14:07 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, I just answered, you know, that some people do have relationships like that. Every relationship is different. And some people are married and have a boyfriend or a girlfriend or multiple people or some people aren't married and have multiple partners. I don't know. I just kind of said, like, it depends on the people and the life that they want to have and the I don't know. That's the best I could do.

0:14:29 Eli: Here's my worry about that that's such a good answer but my worry About explaining it is that if if I gave max that that answer which is correct and he goes to school there might be an adult there who's not thinking of monogamy who will be like oh no there's just one mommy and one daddy or a mommy and a mommy and then I gotta go in and be like hey mrs levinson have you read the ethical slut why are you calling the police stop stop calling the peace oh

0:14:38 Lydia: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I think a similar thing could be said for religion. Right.

0:15:01 Thomas: We're already doing that.

0:15:01 Lydia: Like so we have those conversations with the kids and Phoebe doesn't as of right now, she says she doesn't believe in God, but she has conversations with her friends about it.

0:15:08 Thomas: And then have we told you that Arlo says he does? Did we tell you that?

0:15:10 Lydia: Oh, yeah, oh, yeah Yeah.

0:15:12 Thomas: Oh, it's so good. Yeah.

0:15:12 Lydia: Arlo's like, oh, yeah, no, God's real. And we're like, well, why do you think that? And he's like because. OK.

0:15:15 Thomas: And we have no fucking idea why he's saying it. It's so fun. He's kind of likes to fuck with people. Yeah he likes to just take on a contrarian opinion, which is so funny because in our family that means like taking on all the mainstream mainstream opinions? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think the vaccines are tested enough. We're like, God damn it.

0:15:18 Eli: No he's just trolling yeah right yeah this trump guy's got some good ideas I think elon musk might uh might really save us some money dad you gotta open your heart and

0:15:34 Lydia: He's also sticking to Rise of the Resistance being the ride at Disneyland where you go into outer space, literally like he's still hanging on to that. Oh, yeah. No, no. Nope. He did it with me this morning. He said none of my friends think that's actually going to space because kids aren't allowed to go to space.

0:15:44 Thomas: Wait, no, I thought he was messing with Phoebe about that. Okay. So here. Oh, really? Well, that was an interesting evolution because here's how that started. He doesn't literally believe we went to outer space, but I forget if I told the story he might now, but here's what I totally, I know my child. Here's what happened. What happened was when we went went on that ride. And then we were telling Phoebe, Hey, Phoebe this ride fucking rules best ride ever. And Arlo was telling her about it. And I was like, yeah, I had told Arlo we went into outer space. Cause he asked, you know, he's like, did we really go into space? And I just said like, what are you thinking? Yeah. And I'm like, Yeah, I'll go with you. You know? And so he says, we went to outer space and I'm Like, yeah. And Phoebe's like no, you didn't. And then I said, well, Phoebe trying to maybe get her to go and right. Cause she refused to do anything. She's too scared.

0:15:59 Lydia: Are you sure? OK.

0:16:27 Eli: Mind, I remember this. Yes, yeah.

0:16:29 Thomas: Yep. I was Like, well how would you know? You didn't go on the ride. I was You can't know unless you went on the right. And so that became the thing is that that it wasn't that Arlo thought we went to space. It was that Phoebe couldn't, it was almost like a hearsay evidence rule. Like Phoebe, couldn't technically disprove him. And so he was, he would get upset. Like if you'd be like, you didn't go to space and he would be crying. Like, no, you can't say that. Cause you didn'T go. Like, he'd be really upset that she couldn't know that. And I actually think it was that it was more about like the rules of like, she couldn'T contradict him on that. Cause she didn'T know that she was going to go to the space. She didn'T GO ON THE RIDE. And I think he takes some amount of pride in the fact that he would go on the ride and she wouldn'T. No, no, she didn't. Rise of the Resistance? No. Wait, are you sure? I thought that was a different one.

0:17:04 Lydia: But but she did eventually go on the ride. Yes, she did. Because, yes, remember, she was like screaming and wanting to leave. Yes. Positive. Nope. Nope, she went on that one. And she hid behind me when we went into the stormtrooper room. Yeah.

0:17:18 Thomas: What? Oh, okay.

0:17:19 Lydia: Yeah, she definitely went on.

0:17:18 Eli: That's how I remember it and I heard it second

0:17:22 Thomas: Okay. There was 10 that she didnít go on and I must have mixed it up. Sorry about that. But maybe she closed her eyes the whole time. So she didnís, maybe that was, there was a reason she still couldnít know. And that was what Arlo was saying. So it might have been that she hid, she just like closed her ears. She didnít know what was going on. The whole time maybe.

0:17:25 Eli: Hand

0:17:35 Thomas: But that was like, she was so mad that she couldnít contradict him without knowing. And now I think that turned into the truth for him. He's like, just believes that happened because of that parole evidence rule hearsay. Yeah.

0:17:44 Eli: It's how you're it's why your boomer parents voted for trump a second time is because because phoebe can't wasn't there on the ride and she didn't tell

0:17:49 Thomas: You can't tell me not to do that. I don't know. How did we get on this? Oh, the contrary opinions. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:17:55 Lydia: Well, talking about religion. Yeah I do

0:17:57 Thomas: Well, that's absolutely true, hon. Go ahead.

0:17:59 Lydia: Think it's one of those things where like the kids have been really open to talking about I mean like Arlo just kind of believes whatever Arlo believes. But like Phoebe's been having these conversations with us about like what we believe, different things that are important to us. Arlo has, you know, one of the kids in his class has two moms. And and so like like

0:18:15 Thomas: He has committed some hate crimes against him. Yeah.

0:18:17 Lydia: No. And so I think that there are opportunities to see that like not everything is necessarily like this cookie cutter, heteronormative, you you know, monogamous situation and like we can celebrate differences. And this is just another area where there are different relationship dynamics depending on the people. And as long as everyone's consenting and communicating, then that's not a bad thing. But I do I do see where you're coming from, Eli, too, about like kids can be very open and lovely and beautiful about accepting that. And adults are not.

0:18:45 Thomas: And adults aren't.

0:18:47 Lydia: And so when that makes its way to another adult, the situation that could happen there could be really stressful.

0:18:53 Eli: And that's my worry about being honest about like monogamy as a situation in my own home because I'm worried about max repeating that to an adult who will be unkind to him because they have heard that same thing about religion right is why I talk about like some families play santa right we've talked about playing santa some families pay santa so we don't ruin santa for other people and I have said exactly and I am laying the try I say like it's kind of a joke now because he isn't asking about it I'm like same thing as god right or like you know when we talk because he went to a jewish preschool for a little while and so there will be religious events and I will say they're going to hang out with their best friend god because I want to communicate two things one I don't respect or believe in the thing that they believe in but two they really care about it right because he understands best friends so I'll be like yeah you're talking to your best friend guy say hi to your friend god for me because I don' t want to be a friend of god I want him to understand that if you cross that line with people people who love you people who are gentle people who are kind will switch on a

0:19:14 Thomas: Cynthia let's play floor is lava with. Yeah

0:19:53 Eli: Dime they will switch on a diamond they will do anything they can to make you feel bad because you're making them feel scared right yeah it's cool it's a cool chill sitch to be in

0:19:57 Thomas: Isn't that fun isn't that great isn't awesome about our world so cool great thing I just when Lydia was describing like the fact that like kids are flexible and adults are the person in that conversation that in that scenario who is a child is the adult who can't accept that people are different like that's literally the child in that situation and we're trying to raise our kids to be the adults in those situations a hundred percent it will happen There's nothing more childish than trying to stick to any of those rigid dogmas about anything, fitting other people into your stupid fucking way of how you think things are. It's so childish. Our kids are going to have to be the adults in that room that are going to have manage the feelings of teachers or whoever who are telling them the opposite. And it's really it's really funny. And if not one thing, it'll be the other. You know, like if it's not some polyamory thing, it will be the religion thing or both.

0:20:46 Thomas: I'm not trying to disrupt their lives with any of this stuff, though. That's the that's the main thing I think Eli maybe that's what you were touching on too I know there are a lot of people who are like yeah normalize it be open and be whatever with you know and when it comes to kids I just want them to be able to have their thing and I don't want to have anything we're doing ever disrupt that or turn into something like I would feel too guilty about that that's too much of an imposition it's too much of a thing for me so it's I don't really I I don't know that I ever really want to talk to them about it in any serious way.

0:21:23 Lydia: I think it can be like a gradient almost, right? Like, I don't know that you necessarily have to explicitly say like, and now's when I go on my date with so -and -so who I'm seeing in addition to your mom or your dad.

0:21:34 Thomas: Well, if you always just say it's our friend, then literally the only difference is like, well, but they need to know that you're having sex with them. You know, it's like it's Like, why do the children need to Know that?

0:21:45 Lydia: And they don't. And I think like I think about this a lot with, you know, how like our just, you know, regular friends are part of our lives. And like, you know, the kids know a lot of our adult friends and they come to their birthday parties and they buy them presents. Occasionally we have dinners together. It's like that. It''s just like this expanded community. And then what's missing is, yeah, they don''t need to know what kind of fun I'm getting into with the other person. And that's okay. Yeah.

0:22:07 Eli: Right yeah and I think it's really important to recognize the difference between a different family structure right Because obviously, if you live with multiple partners, you should have that conversation. But I don't think there is, not to get Tom Curry up in this business, I shut off my recording and leave the podcast, not To Get All Tom Curry, but I don' t think my sex life is any of my child's business ever. I think we can talk about sex. I think that's a good thing. We can talk a little bit about consent. We can talked about things that are healthy and positive in relationships, but what goes on between me and Anna or what goes on between me and other people, that is none of Max's business. Just as his sex life will eventually be none of my business.

0:22:15 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. Sure. If you actually have multiple. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh really okay as soon as you uninstall the spy gadgets from

0:22:51 Eli: Right? When he is an adult who gets to make his own decisions. Right. Exactly. Now, when will I? Again, I'm never saying I'm right about that. Every so often this is the cycle that happens to me because I'm not on any of the social medias anymore. Except for TikTok because I love my TikToks. I got fed back in TikTok so I send people TikToks all the time. But aside from that, I'm not on any of the social medias anymore. And so what's been happening is a cycle happens where someone rediscovers my deep and abiding commitment to spy on my child. And they'll be like, you're a bad person. And I'm like, I agree.

0:23:24 Lydia: Oh, my God.

0:23:24 Eli: And they're like, well, you've defaced my argument. I never said it was right. I said I'm going to do it. But right, like there will be a point in Max's life where his sex life is none of my business. I, as his parent, can care about him just like you as your kids can care About you. I also think that's really important too, is that especially when it comes to casual non -monogamy in whatever form that may be, I think a lot of time, and I think the internet is a big problem creator for this, is like the need to overshare really gets into it. And I see that with single parents all the time, right? It's people who bring new partners to meet their kids too quickly and people who engage in new relationships or talk about their relationships or even divorces, right. Right. I can't tell you. You know, there's a divorce in my family where the mom was incredibly public about being upset with the dad

0:23:31 Thomas: Everything oh

0:24:15 Eli: During that divorce. And that's how I feel about that. It's like that is none of your kid's business, you know. And that'S really something that you got to keep to yourself.

0:24:15 Thomas: Yeah no good no good yeah except tom should absolutely tell his kids about

0:24:26 Eli: Except Tom should acknowledge that his ex -wife exists. He should stop pretending he can't see her. It's weird when they're passing off Legos. He's just, oh, mystical ghost of the Legos, if you are there.

0:24:36 Thomas: No it's like those old like movies or whatever where you see the legos hanging on a string like going over to

0:24:47 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:24:48 Eli: So we got another question here. This one's a little trickier. I will not read the whole thing because it's very, very, really long, but essentially it is this. And the reason why I wanted to talk through this one is because I think it is sort of the other side of polyamory. And we certainly get this question quite a bit or questions like this quite a bet, which is like polyamoring for bandaid of relationship that has changed. And so basically, and forgive me, listener, because I'm going to sum up your email, which was very well -written and very like long and detailed, and I'm probably going to miss some of the subtleties and stuff, but this person is in a long -term relationship. They've been with their partner for 18 years, and this person's partner has realized that they are either demisexual or asexual.

0:25:29 Eli: For those of you who are unaware, demisexual means that you want romantic relationships, right? Asexual is when you either want romantic relations, but not sex, or sometimes you don't want either. It's a broad spectrum, there's, you know, the way to ask is the person, but this person has realized that they do not want sex in the relationship anymore. Obviously this was very distressing to our listener. Our listener doesn't want to pressure their partner. They still very much love their partner, and so the solution that they have come up with is that their partner has said, well, hey, if you want to to go get sex I am okay with you going and getting sex and I hear this a lot again I'm I am less in the poly community because the polycommunity kink community like all that kind of stuff used to be one in the same in a very different part in my life which I don't know if you know this is a 37 year old dad of a five -year -old

0:25:28 Thomas: Him yeah that's what Maui is

0:26:24 Eli: Uh not getting out to parties a lot anymore and if If I was, they'd be like, are you here to pick someone up?

0:26:25 Lydia: Just birthday parties. Yeah, exactly.

0:26:33 Eli: Did someone get too drunk and order an Uber? I don't understand. Why is your rabbi here? Why are you crying? It's fantastic. Why are You Crying is fantastic. The patrons will get that one. That's phenomenal. But that was something that happened a lot. Or more importantly, what I often heard happen is someone would have an affair, right? Or cheat, however you care to choose to use the terminology. And then rather than deal with the fallout, they would just decide they were poly, right?

0:26:36 Thomas: Right why are you

0:27:06 Lydia: Mm hmm, yeah.

0:27:07 Thomas: Crying yes

0:27:07 Eli: They would be like, oh, no, no. It's fine. We're poly. And so what I want to say when speaking to this listener, and I'd love to hear you two chime in on this as well, is that I actually don't think this is a healthy way to enter polyamory.

0:27:09 Thomas: That'll work

0:27:21 Eli: Because what you're talking about is a need in a relationship that used to be filled that's not being filled. And I think you're using polyamory to sort of bridge the gap there. And it may, you might find people who just want to fuck you and you just want to fuck them. And that's great. That's, that's awesome. Casual sex is great. If everyone is a consenting adult and is, you know, well -informed and all that stuff, nothing wrong with casual sex, but it doesn't solve the underlying issue that there was a need in the relationship, not being filled, that that relationship was

0:27:21 Thomas: Yeah yeah hmm

0:27:53 Eli: Entered into as a contract where here are my needs, here are mine needs. Yes, I can meet them. Right. And now that person has changed and that's okay. It doesn't mean that it's not okay for that person to change, but I don't think the solution is for them to sort of shoo you off to get your needs met rather than doing the work on acknowledging that, Hey, I'm not meeting your needs anymore. And a really good way to come to understand this is that if you stopped meeting your partner's emotional needs, we would all understand that was bad and your fault. And so when we turn that around, because I think there's been a little bit of a pendulum swing when it comes to sexual pressure, right? So I think we are aware generationally that the way people were pressured into having sex was awful. And we hate it. And we don't want anyone to be pressured into sex. And that sucks. And this listener expressed that a ton in their email and their message that they do not want to pressure their partner into sex. That's not what they want out of them. But I think that pendulum has swung so far the other way that it has now become, if you are a good person who doesn't want to pressure your partner into six, your partner gets to remove that from your relationship entirely.

0:29:04 Eli: And it's not their problem because in order for it to be their problem, well, then you would be pressuring them into sex, or then you Would be holding against them that they can't have sex, or then You would be holding Against them that They've discovered this new element to their sexuality. And that's not okay. So I'm just going to take on this whole burden. And I don't think that's healthy. As well -intentioned as it is, as generous as it ist, and as loving as I genuinely think it is. I don t think it's a healthy way to deal with this situation.

0:29:31 Lydia: I think that you can get to that point. I think like flipping on a switch, just go out and have sex with other people and then you saying, okay, I got the go -ahead and now I'm going to go out and have six with other women. I don't think that's a healthy way to approach it, but I think relationships can evolve, do evolve, and it might be that the relationship looks different for them now, but that means putting in the work to figure out how is this relationship going to look knowing X, Y, and Z. And this is the kind of person that I've grown to be. These are the kind of needs that I have developed or lost, et cetera, et cetera. And then from there, putting in that work, putting in that communication and stepping into that changed relationship dynamic. I think it's possible. It's hard. It is really hard.

0:30:12 Thomas: Yeah well it really depends I didn't the email is too long eli but uh do you get the sense that this person do they want to be polyamorous or are are they just doing this to get, like you said, to just kind of address like a need hypothetically? Because that's the key. Yeah, because that's that is a little bit. I mean, it's still I, you know, I'm not going to tell anyone how to live their lives. That could still work. But like, if they're not actually polyamorous, just for the sake of argument, and it's like, well, I're going to go elsewhere to get this certain need. I don't know that that actually works if you aren't the kind of person who's polyamitous, because maybe you're the kind OF person who'S pretty mono. And then you kind of just start thinking about and feeling things for another person that's not your partner, because a lot of people are like that when it comes to sex and when it comes, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah.

0:30:28 Eli: Very much the latter is what the sound that I got from the... Yeah.

0:30:58 Lydia: I think that's fair. And I think that's part of the conversations and like the, you know, deep personal work that you have to do in part of this. And from my understanding that like there There are people who have stepped into or their relationships have evolved into this. And they do feel like maybe they're a little more monolening, but there is something regarding sex that's missing in their relationship. And it might be that they seek sex workers because they have a need that needs to be met. And so they seek someone who does this professionally where there is basically no chance that there's going to be romantic feelings evolving from that.

0:31:32 Lydia: I think some people pursue it that way. I think some people you know end up realizing that like perhaps this is actually okay like we can meet that need through these other methods instead I just think it's like it's such a personal journey based on the couple and the only way you're going to find something that's going to work for you guys is to have a lot of conversations about it. Yeah yeah yeah

0:31:54 Thomas: You just have to know you're on the same page, how, whatever that takes. It can't be that someone's like, well, I guess you could, if you need, you know, if she want to go out, you know?

0:32:02 Eli: And Thomas, you hit the nail exactly on the head, which is that there need to be a lot of conversations and the conversations can't be, well, I guess if that's what you need, then go ahead and get it. Right. That weight can't be put on your shoulders and you're going to want to take it on your shoulders because you don't want to pressure your partner into sex.

0:32:19 Eli: Right? You're goingto want to bea good person. I think this person uses male pronouns. At least they've certainly spoken like they use male pronouns I think they've referred to themselves as he, him at some point in the email, but like Like, you want to be a good guy, and you don't want to be a rapist. And that rules.

0:32:34 Eli: Like, fucking big ups on that one. But by the same token, you can go so far in accommodating your partner that you dismiss your own needs.

0:32:43 Thomas: Oh yeah. I wanted to return back to that. When it comes to this, I don't think this is any different. And I want to be careful because I'm not saying this about polyamory, but about this kind of situation. If someone tells you that, oh, it turns out I'm asexual, that's no different to me than saying, turns out, I'm gay.

0:33:00 Thomas: And we're not. That's virtually indistinguishable to me. Me. Maybe it wouldn't be to other people and that's fine. But I do not believe that if your partner, if unbeknownst to you, your partner was gay or trans and didn't know it or was in the closet or whatever, and they come out and that is great for them. They should live their lives. They should live their honest lives. I don't believe as a partner you have any obligation to remain with them if you don't feel that. I do n't think you do. I think that is forcing you to participate in a relationship dynamic or sexuality that you didn't sign up for necessarily. No, I'm not saying that means, you know, I're sure a lot of people would or they would make that choice and it's kind of individual. But I think there are a lot of people who talk about that as something they would have to like be there for. And it's like, I don't think you have that obligation to say, hey, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah.

0:33:41 Lydia: It's a valid choice for that to be the end of that particular relationship in that manner at least yeah yeah yeah,

0:33:45 Thomas: Or maybe it changes in some other thing. And that's what I think this same thing is. If someone, if I, because at the same time as I agree with everything Eli said about this not being the way to do this. I totally agree. I also think that the end result could work out to be this. Yeah.

0:34:02 Eli: Yeah, 100%. Right.

0:34:02 Thomas: But it's just a question of like, cause like, I know that if I were in this situation and I was with somebody who one day was like, Hey, I'm asexual. I'd be like, well, I's not doing that. So what do we want to, you know, how let's figure this out. You know, it'd be that's your needs that you have. I have my needs that I have. Can we figure a way to both have them met or not. That's the discussion. Yeah, yeah.

0:34:22 Eli: And your needs are valid. That your needs are real. And exactly like if your partner... This is why I love podcasting with the Smiths. I get to podcast with them twice this week but sometimes Thomas and Lydia, because my stupid brain, I'm just like don't see the worst thing ever don't say the worst things ever and I get to listen to Thomas lydia and they just say it's so smart and I'm like yeah that's what my brain wanted to say that's when I met I think I said that the pendulum has swung too far against rape but that's not what I meant I meant the smart thing the Smiths said they should talk more and I should talk less.

0:35:07 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:35:09 Lydia: I do want to recognize that this is the hardest way to be in a poly relationship also. Or in this case, it might be mono poly. I'm not not clear that there is some indication that the wife does enjoy some time with women but there's not necessarily like a sexual dynamic just you know some cuddles which I think is lovely but that is like it is hard and it

0:35:29 Thomas: Hmm. Interesting.

0:35:34 Eli: We're big homophobes here on Dear Old Dads, everybody. I don't know if you can tell.

0:35:36 Thomas: No, it's more like, is this, is that what's going on is what I'm thinking instead. Maybe.

0:35:42 Lydia: Could be it could but I just want to say I just wanna recognize for this listener that entering into a relationship dynamic like this when it's not present at the beginning is a a challenge. It's really hard, especially sounds like you guys have been together for a very long time. You have, you know, been married for a Very long time with three kids. And it's just going to be hard work, honestly, to have those conversations, but it's going to be fruitful.

0:36:03 Eli: And also say this, because in the email, the listener is very much like, I guess I can go out and get laid, but I really just want to fuck my wife. Like, like one of the things that I want to invite this listener to, because we're talking a lot about like the ways in which we think this might not be cash money. And I've got to be honest, I think that there are a lot of ways in this is not is not cash money and is also not consensual that you might want to consider. Dinner is that you've been placed into a non -consensual situation and like what it means when your consent has been violated in a relationship dynamic. But if you decide to open the relationship, I would encourage you to open yourself to whatever those relationships turn into. Yeah. You might just get laid. That's cool. That is cash money, but you also might find a connection with another person. And like, here's the thing. You can read all the books in the world that you want, but not to overly romanticize or tell out of a turn, but like realizing that you can love more than one person, you know, to abuse the quote, it's like finding another ball room in your house, right?

0:36:24 Thomas: Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. A ball gag room in your house.

0:37:03 Eli: Like you, that there is, that, there is not a ball game room in your house. Like there's, there's not a limit on the amount of people you can love and the amount people you connect with and all those connections will be different and all those connections be wonderful. I think that's really important to clarify is that like, maybe Maybe the thing you go out and get could be great. Could be fantastic.

0:37:23 Thomas: Yeah. But I also it's important to clarify, is it OK, Eli, to outsource your wife's needs, for example, like I don't ever want to go on a hike. Like, I don't want to do it. I just don't, I don't have any interest in it. So exactly. Is it, it's the inverse. Like, is that okay?

0:37:37 Eli: Ooh, polyamory for the stuff you don't want to do with your partner. Yes. Yes. Oh my God, I would love that. Oh, that would be amazing.

0:37:46 Thomas: You know, not since not liking comic book movies back in 2012 have I felt so. Going on hikes is mandatory in dating profiles. They actually auto complete. That's the first thing that you have to say is going on a hike. And look, I don't mind the idea of that. Like the concept Like if someone paints what a hike looks like, that seems cool, you

0:38:00 Eli: Is that you love going on hikes? Oh, I mind the idea. I'm against it on principle. Mm -hmm.

0:38:12 Thomas: Know, like in the image of it, you know, but like actually doing it is you're just walking sweatily. It's not, there's no, it's just exactly. That's what I'm talking about.

0:38:19 Lydia: Well, I guess I'm not going on dates with you guys because I love hiking I love hiking I swipe left on your profile I

0:38:23 Thomas: I have outsourced.

0:38:23 Eli: You do? Because of how I look. I don't do any hobbies that a bobcat does to survive. You know what I'm saying? I don't do any. The minute a bobcat plays pickleball, I'll give up pickleball.

0:38:42 Thomas: They might.

0:38:49 Eli: All right. Smiths, we've filled the people in. We've let them know what the weirdos are up to. Tom will be here next week if you've missed him. Thank you all of you who reached out with your sympathies begging us to punish Tom. But no, no, we won't. Instead, we'll leave you with the dad joke.

0:38:43 Clip: DEAR OLD DADS

0:39:05 Thomas: Oh, wait, can I? I'm so sorry. Can I hijack this for a Father's Day dad joke? Here's what happened on Father's Day. Yeah, here's what I have on Father's Day. And I couldn't believe the icy cold reception in

0:39:10 Eli: A father's day dad joke from last week it's

0:39:17 Thomas: The room. So as a part of Father'S day on.

0:39:19 Eli: Because you'd been home all day crying, I thought

0:39:21 Thomas: Yeah. It's true. Unbeknownst to me, there is some sort of like, I guess, in the new house that Lydia's parents have moved into. There is a bunch of them just like staring off in a corner in part of the room that I was like, I don't know what's happening over there. I couldn'T see it. But I was like what is

0:39:32 Lydia: I guess Okay, it was my dad my sister and

0:39:36 Thomas: Going on and then yeah and then they're like hey come on over I was like oh what the fuck and they're like, we fixed this grandfather clock and I was like, oh that makes that all make sense because that was confusing there wasn't a TV or anything digital there no it was it seemed like it seemed like it and then so they fixed the clock they started they're, like, hey start the clock going and then there was this moment where they're, like, well we gotta see if it works and I said yeah only time will tell and

0:39:43 Lydia: Myself kind

0:39:49 Eli: You were doing a horror movie thing like there's a blair witch situation where they all turn around real fast

0:40:04 Thomas: No and everyone was, like what I was, Like come on it's Father's Day! That's so good! Only time will tell if it's gonna work! The grandfather clock?

0:40:06 Lydia: Of like this

0:40:07 Eli: Oh, unappreciated

0:40:15 Thomas: I appreciated my time. There was active silence and or like what? It was like, okay, okay.

0:40:14 Eli: Unappreciated un

0:40:21 Lydia: I chuckled.

0:40:22 Eli: Appreciated polyamory for someone to laugh at your dad jokes

0:40:24 Thomas: It was Father's Day! Come on!

0:40:29 Eli: Polly Kiddery, where you get a new kid who laughs at your jokes.

0:40:32 Thomas: No, I have Arlo, it's fine. I have the best kid in the world. Clone that kid. I wanted a hundred of them.

0:41:26 Eli: Don't worry, I'm not going to bother to show up today.

0:41:30 Thomas: You're just walking sweatily.

0:41:33 Eli: I never said it was right. I said I'm going to do it. Hey, Mrs. Levinson, have you read The Ethical Slut?