DOD198: The (Worst) Humans of New York

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and honor dependent. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired.

0:00:22 Clip: Telling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:28 Tom: Hello and welcome to Dear Old Dads. I'm Tom Curry and I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello gentlemen. Did you notice I skipped the intro? Did you

0:00:42 Eli: You did? Yeah.

0:00:36 Thomas: Didn't sound right. Was that something wrong about that? Huh? Oh, wow. Jeez.

0:00:50 Eli: Okay. Interesting.

0:00:51 Thomas: I mean, I'M, I' m heartbroken, but never

0:00:52 Tom: Real -time feedback. What think? We getting rid of it? We keeping it?

0:00:53 Eli: I wish run it past us and let us know.

0:00:56 Tom: We rip into it?

0:00:56 Eli: I'd win.

0:00:57 Thomas: Change anything ever.

0:00:58 Eli: Never change anything. That's the rule of podcasting.

0:01:00 Thomas: Ever.

0:01:01 Eli: Every

0:01:01 Tom: The silence when I just went into the second sentence instead of the first, guys?

0:01:04 Eli: Yeah.

0:01:04 Tom: It was just like, what is happening? There's no...

0:01:07 Eli: Was pretty echoey.

0:01:07 Tom: Here, we'll try this. Recording live!

0:01:08 Eli: Yeah, we didn't know what to do. We were lost. Ooh, I like that.

0:01:13 Tom: How's that?

0:01:13 Eli: Yes, make them think they're listening to Cogdiss.

0:01:12 Thomas: Don't think that's right. Yeah.

0:01:13 Tom: We'll do that? Yeah, that'll disappoint

0:01:16 Eli: Because then there will be more of them.

0:01:16 Tom: Them. Here we go. There'd be a lot more of them.

0:01:21 Eli: Wait a second. What's the Joe Rogan?

0:01:26 Thomas: Yeah, let's just do other shows. Yeah we're actually a cover podcast.

0:01:29 Eli: Drip. Drib.

0:01:30 Thomas: They don't have those yet. We're a tribute podcast.

0:01:31 Tom: We should be a cover podcast why are there no tribute there needs okay that's a fucking billion dollar idea is other tribute podcasts and they and they but like I want to cover another like straight up cover another podcast not just use a similar idea just

0:01:36 Thomas: Well there is. There's Yeah, your podcast partner started one.

0:01:47 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, just do. All right, this one's, you might recognize this one. It's called December 4th, 2014. Here we go. Hit it. I'm going to just do Joe Rogan from that date, I guess. I don't know. I don' t think there's a market for that. But, you know, let's try it. It's better than Quibi. Be

0:02:01 Eli: Like that's what they do.

0:02:04 Tom: Nobody knows who Quibi is. I don't know anybody that knows who he is. Then again, I don' t know very many people.

0:02:08 Eli: Everybody knows about Quibi. Quibi was

0:02:10 Tom: Nobody knew about Quibi. You guys made that up. I'm 100 % convinced of that.

0:02:10 Eli: Great. Quibby's great. But gentlemen, do you know the only thing shorter than the lifetime Quibi? The vertical video platform that was promising to sweep the nation with five to 15 minute television show episodes. Why? It's the auto ads. They're only 30 seconds at a time, but they're interrupted. Why don't you kill them? By heading over to Patreon .com forward slash D -Roll Dads. Patreon. Com forward slash d -roll dads.

0:02:34 Thomas: Rip

0:02:42 Eli: Ads as dead as Quibi. Rip into it. Quib into it?

0:02:46 Thomas: As in rip into it well

0:02:50 Eli: Quibi into it Yes!

0:02:46 Tom: Quib into it. So we're going to talk a little bit about a Humans of New York post. Thomas Smith dropped in the old company Slack the other day. I' m going to read this to you guys.

0:02:59 Thomas: Lydia sent this to what eli and I I think and it was such a journey like I was ready to um ignore it because I you know it's humans in new york so I don't lydia sends me a thing and I gotta I'm not reading this I don't want to I don' t care but But then it was sent to both of us and was a reason. And gets progressively more insane to the point where we have to read it and it's delightful. I think it needs no further introduction, probably because

0:03:27 Tom: My God. Wish this wasn't in the first person. Know, like, you know, when you go to read something, you're like, I don't want to use my voice for this.

0:03:30 Thomas: We're getting your recording of it like you're no,

0:03:33 Eli: I'm gonna use these clips. Yeah Oh,

0:03:34 Tom: This is not good.

0:03:34 Thomas: Definitely use your voice for it, Tom. Wasn't at all a plan by me at all.

0:03:37 Tom: Fuck, all right. This is fun. This like older women. My longest relationship ever was a 43 -year -old woman. But even then, we're talking only four weeks, I'm actually kind of worried that I'll never fall in love. That's hot, for the most part, I really have one intention. Then after that happens, I went on two dates last week. With one of the girls, I was having a genuinely good time. We were talking, going deep. But then we had sex. And it was kind of like, if you gave it up like this and you just met me, then what's your value? When I wake up next to a girl the morning after and she's all in my face, there's just this feeling of disgust. I don't know how else to describe it.

0:04:11 Thomas: Jesus fucking Christ.

0:04:17 Tom: I'll barely look at them, barely hug, say the bare minimum, trying to get away. I dunno. I'm just bored of them. I've played sports my whole life and when you're playing sports you're constantly working towards something but if we were to play football and they gave us the championship right away then why do we have to work what's the point because it's already there it's like what do I do now what else can I work for

0:04:19 Thomas: My god this

0:04:26 Eli: That makes sense.

0:04:37 Thomas: Christ this is from the humans of new york men are the problem with society edition a collection

0:04:45 Eli: It's kind of deceptive to call this post Humans of New York, right? They should really rename the Facebook page Humans of NY and that one philosophical zombie.

0:04:48 Tom: You know

0:04:57 Thomas: This is the perfect embodiment of just yeah toxic masculinity and in the way it progressed yeah fuck boy yeah

0:05:02 Eli: Fuck boyery. Yeah.

0:05:04 Tom: A lot of women out there that are like, hey, I'm giving up. And you read this and I'm like, yeah, you should give up.

0:05:10 Eli: I get it. Yeah, absolutely.

0:05:11 Tom: Just keep looking. Do not keep looking, just read one of these posts and be like, if there's one of there's a hundred of these and there's no reason to hope anymore. This is just so bad.

0:05:21 Thomas: Now this looks like a pretty young kid what would would you think this kid's age is 20 20 early 20s yeah he's

0:05:25 Tom: 23, 26.

0:05:26 Eli: 20? Oh, I'd put him at like 20.

0:05:28 Tom: Oh, I'd give them a little older.

0:05:29 Thomas: Pretty young he could be anywhere in the in the early 20's yeah

0:05:32 Tom: In his early 20s and he's the worst. He should be pushed into a subway car in the front of a subway.

0:05:34 Thomas: He I think he should be studied I think you should be like okay we need to find out let's get to the bottom of this we don't

0:05:40 Eli: You can do both, Thomas. Could study him before the car.

0:05:43 Thomas: Need to study the coefficient of friction and you know gravity we need need to study like how do they yeah

0:05:47 Tom: When you posted this, I excited to talk about this for a couple of reasons. The first is this idea is not unique. When you poke around in online spaces, I see this kind of and there's an entire language that's developed around this. Like I want to read some of the parts that are just this kind language that I see all kinds of spaces that up, especially when guys are talking about women. So they say stuff like. It was kind of like, if you gave it up like this and you just met me, then what's your value?

0:06:16 Tom: That conversation, that word value, that like identifying human beings as like a value add, this idea that sort we've of like commodified and transactionalized love and relationships and human connection.

0:06:15 Thomas: What's your value the way you are putting that is so much better than what it actually is tom like you're like yeah commodifying humans and love it's like well no I would that's a step up I would gladly take that the yeah this is literally if you've had sex then you no longer have any value like

0:06:42 Eli: He probably values commodities. He's got that NFT of a monkey. He really cares about that.

0:06:46 Tom: But It's just that language, though, but like I like I know that's what he's saying, but I want to I want I'm going to seize on that value language a little bit more because I see that all the time that in online spaces, men are constantly talking about high value, low value. What's your value? Where do they bring value? This idea of like value as a transactional like element of like how we should look at relationships and sex and like partnerships with other people. It's fucking endemic, man. It's everywhere. And dudes are into this. Dudes are super fucking into this, the bro dudes, the gym dudes, The fucking Huberman dudes, all those guys, they are a hundred percent into this this like idea that we can like maximize our return in some way that we Can think of relationships in terms of this transactional maximization model. It fucking everywhere.

0:07:45 Eli: Yeah, it important to recognize that this philosophy is winning, right?

0:07:50 Tom: Yes. Yeah. Thank you. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, Huberman.

0:07:52 Eli: Tait is more popular than we will ever be. Right. When he finally goes to prison and, you know, gets eaten by a bear or whatever society does, because they do see they consequences. I'm not saying he's not going to see consequences because I think people always confuse that. But like the general appeal of what Andrew it's magnitudes more appealing than what we have to say in any of our realms, in any our shows, about anything we ever choose to talk about. So I think a lot of the time, especially in leftist spaces, we talk about this like, isn't it crazy how wrong this one individual is? Isn't it how broken this one individuals is? But I think it's really important to acknowledge that what this young man is doing is simply voicing the dominant way that young men of his generation think about women and sex.

0:07:57 Tom: Andrew Yeah, because they sold this idea. Think about how that sentence about thinking about somebody in terms of then what's your value? I don't care what you did. Let's set the sex for just a moment, although it's the dominant part of the conversation. About any person, not in terms like, oh, I don' think we're compatible. The chemistry wasn't there. We just didn't click. Different Oh, ideas about how the world works. It's just not going to fit. No, like what is your value? Like what is the thing transactionally you bring to me that I need? Think about how different that is than his sentence that he led off with in his second or third sentence, which is, I'm kind of worried I'll never actually fall in love. This is somebody who doesn't understand that at cross purposes and they are mutually exclusive. He doesn't There's an enormous number of young people that don't understand that because they're being taught not to understand that.

0:09:37 Eli: Trump voter who's like, eggs is expensive, but they don't understand that Voting like... for Republicans is the reason their life is bad. So they just keep voting for Republicans harder because the Republicans are the only ones willing to tell them, like, we will change your life for the better. Right. Democrats actually will. But Republicans are The ones who are like, no, no. It's their fault and we're going to fix it. So They just like they just Keep pushing that cocaine button like the mouse in the trap and But they there's no connection. Right?

0:09:53 Tom: That

0:10:05 Thomas: Yeah?

0:10:05 Eli: There's no Connection between the two. Right and there's No situation no matter how direct correlated like I think about those parents whose young kid they're like three -year -old died of measles and they were like it wasn't that bad

0:10:16 Thomas: Wasn't bad. Wasn' that bad.

0:10:18 Tom: This kind of attitude, this kind nonsense, this value conversation, this transactionalizing of other people, this constantly looking into someone that you might have as your partner someday in terms of like, well, what do you give me? What do I get from you? What that idea that a partnership or a relationship is there to serve you in some way. And how bad that gets when the shit hits the fan and somebody just needs someone else for a short time or an extended time. Like, everybody can get into a transactional thing for a short period of time, but there's no sustainability. You're not growing old and fucking sitting rocking chairs together at 85 being able to keep up with the same transactional promises you made at 23.

0:10:40 Eli: You've

0:10:43 Thomas: Man.

0:11:03 Eli: Really maintained your values right

0:11:05 Tom: Yeah! You it's not how life works. But these guys are being told that this is what they're supposed to expect in order to give of themselves. They should get these certain valuable things in return. And it's like, hey, man, like that is not going to sustain. There's going to come a place where it breaks.

0:11:23 Thomas: Me, it's way I guess I'm a little more forgiving of some amount of viewing things in a transactional manner than I am of what the fucking valuable things are. You know, it'S one thing to be like, yeah, you know, IT's a little transactional I get you know love and security and and I give them that same thing like looking at things in a bit of a transactional manner I can forgive but just being like well since she had sex with me now there's no value just means that you don't the things that you could even be value you literally can't love someone with that mindset like it's not even possible because if the thing you think is valuable about a person is the speed at which they had sex or something thing there's just nothing there that for you there's not connecting on any human level whatsoever at

0:11:49 Tom: 100%. Yeah. Yeah. I want to draw a distinction because I think it's important. And maybe this is just going to sound like semantics, but I think that there is a real distinction between emotional reciprocity and transactionalism. I think what you're describing is emotional reciprocy. And I think absolutely essential to being in a relationship. Otherwise, it's an unrequited love, right? Otherwise, Always a part of any kind of a healthy, loving relationship. But the kind of value talk that these guys are really like building and teaching boys and kids to embrace is a very like physical, financial, sexual. Are really tangible things that are not emotional reciprocity. That's what these guys are talking about. That is what is being preached, to your point, Eli, by Tates and such. And that is why guys like this are like, well, horrible, toxic, misogynist ideas and I can't fall in love.

0:12:18 Thomas: Least financial security is a thing Tom at least Financial Security is a thing that exists like speed at which you you sex is just not that like that that's even a consideration is just such a it's just so alien to me like that means you truly only value someone for their sexual interactions and parts and that's nothing right

0:13:10 Eli: Let

0:13:19 Tom: Well, it is fucking insane. You don't even value them for their sexual interaction so much, Thomas. In this scenario, you wanted the same thing they wanted. Right. When you did it, you were in the right and they were in wrong because women are this. This is that like you're supposed to not actually want to have sex with me. I'm supposed to have to sort of force it a little bit like I'm

0:13:29 Thomas: Fair yeah absolutely yeah yeah women are just a rubik's cube and it's like well I don't want it to be solved easily you know it's not about the experience of being with somebody or talking to them it's fucking insane

0:13:56 Tom: His final metaphor implies that this woman didn't play enough defense, right? So he's saying, hey, it's all about the coaching.

0:13:59 Thomas: She couldn't stay healthy you know they could yeah she

0:14:06 Tom: We got a shot at it this year if we can get everybody healthy. Get them off the bench. Get him in the game. That's the only way to score goals. But this again, it is pervasive. And Andrew Tate jokes that it's gay if you have sex for more than six or seven minutes. If a woman receives pleasure or enjoys the sex, that's not the point of it for a guy.

0:14:06 Thomas: Gotta get to get a better... Yeah. Poor gay dudes. They're like, God, I have to have... Wow. They're like, what if I only wanted to do it for a little bit of time? I'm trying to be gay here.

0:14:34 Eli: Am I some kind of straight guy do I become a woman guess my question is because we can sit in our echo chambers talking about how right we are and how wrong they are forever.

0:14:36 Thomas: Fuck. Yeah. Agreed. Okay. Let's do that.

0:14:50 Eli: Deal. Hey, my career. Like. What is there any reach across like how do we reach this young man right like I was thinking a lot so my my my private argument that I have these days is that I'm in like a very very pessimistic place politically and so what I talk to friends about is like what they think needs to change to have good politics, right? To win again, to reach across the aisle, whatever. And luckily all my friends are smart. I mean, they'd have to be because they're not small children, but like most of my friends, most of them are smarter than me. And so one of the things that comes up in those conversations quite a bit about like how we win the next election, how we went in the midterm, right. Is like, we have to start talking in the average American self -interest, right, being right isn't enough anymore like you need to start talking about like how lower class and lower middle class people are going to pay their bills and how you're going to cut their taxes and what you're gonna do for them and that the

0:14:53 Thomas: My career and even

0:15:48 Eli: Right

0:15:49 Thomas: That's wrong because it's we do do that already it just doesn't matter but yeah

0:15:50 Eli: Well so the problem is we do that but we don't necessarily talk about it as much right

0:15:56 Thomas: We already I when I say we do that we already talk about it I think we already talked about and I think I think that's the next thing to do we don't have to sidetrack you with the argument but I do think that is the next things to do is to have a more populist like direct message but I also think what's actually happening is people just don't hear it because there's a entire misinformation media thing that so our message is never there but anyway I

0:16:14 Eli: I and that yeah no I think that's a part of it but my question is is there a reaching across the aisle for this kind of toxicity

0:16:21 Tom: Yeah, I that there is. And I think that like these guys have fallen under the sway of men who are providing a message to them on what masculinity can look like for them. Right. And they're saying in very real terms, these are the actions that you can take that will be you will be more successful in your life. Right, more plates, more dates, all that kind of stuff. Right I think these guys are he's articulating something in that second sentence.

0:16:47 Thomas: Very much thought that meant plates like at a restaurant yeah fuck

0:16:49 Tom: Dinner

0:16:49 Eli: Dinner plates. Yeah, I was also doing dinner. I was like, why would they want to eat more meal?

0:16:50 Tom: Plates.

0:16:51 Thomas: I was like maybe I like this okay maybe

0:16:53 Eli: I actually do like more.

0:16:53 Thomas: I'm into this yeah and

0:16:54 Eli: I want to like a little snack.

0:16:55 Tom: Like what

0:16:55 Thomas: I realized it's plates like lift weight lifting yeah

0:16:58 Tom: He's articulating is that he is afraid. So he is this thing that he's doing. He's following all the advice of the toxic shit. It's not working. He is not. And he is a freight. He has not experiencing connection. I think that these people are reachable. If you can point out, hey, man, you've been following this advice. And it's not like even if you want to transactionalize it, you're not getting the product you want, right? Having these experiences that you find unfulfilling. You're You're in the morning and feeling bad. Think if you capitalize on the fact that like, hey, man, these guys have sold you a bill of goods, have you followed the advice. And what do you have? You have loneliness.

0:17:25 Thomas: Except Except for those cougars. Yeah.

0:17:40 Tom: You have a lack of connection. Like there are better ways to do it. And I think like one of the ways that you can you can kind of maybe reach these people is to say, look, if we're going to transactionalize a relationship. Let's actually figure out what you want that to feel like and look like for you and have you have them describe it. Like, what do you want? That to be like, describe it? Think the first 10 times you do that with the same person, it's going to be horrible. It's going be a mess. The conversation is going to a fucking disaster because it's gonna be so defensive and it's If you just highlight that part, like is a guy who is afraid he'll never fall in love. If he's willing to say that, maybe there's a path to that vulnerability that you need in order to reach him.

0:18:27 Thomas: Got two thoughts. Thought is, I do think some amount of this is age and maturity. I think with dudes, I I'm not saying it's the whole thing, but I think younger dudes are more susceptible to this because you got the raging hormones going and it's just, I feel like it's a little easier to be blind to like the less directly sexual components of human relationships. You know I think it's just on average I mean like it's a little easier for these messages to to hit with young people but then I was also thinking tom I think you're on to something and I also think maybe we need to start you know appealing to like you know no one has more sex than married people like married people have more sex like it just this is not even close because like you just have a person to have sex with all the time if want or even not all the time like just people don't understand like think that being single it means yeah you're playing the field you're doing whatever it's like no no one has more sex than married people and it's not close maybe that's the way we market this you know like if you if that's what you're looking for turns I've got this one weird trick

0:19:19 Eli: It's called loving your partner forever.

0:19:21 Thomas: Get get a partner connect with them and you could do some amazing stuff it's fun like we should you know maybe we start the Andrew Tate but for like you relationships good relation he's already that though hmm yeah good relationship sex you know it's it's good time

0:19:29 Eli: Entertainment. Well, and and that brings up my other question, and I apologize because I feel like this has just been the solve society episode from from me. But like, does one begin to reach out to those people? You know, a story that I talk about a lot is like Tom and the used car salesman. The car salesmen was very much like, all right, Tom has more plates. Therefore, he must desire more dates. And.

0:19:56 Eli: Tom's told this story on the air before, but in case people aren't familiar and that Tom was like, oh, no, that's not that's on how I feel. And I don't think it's how you feel. They had this really good conversation where at the very least in word, this guy like considered Tom's opinions. Right. And so there's that sort of one on one ministering and changing minds. But as people who have a platform, as people have a mic like just not reaching the Andrew Tate listeners of the world.

0:20:20 Thomas: We're not yeah no it's not the only one because he's in the gym you know where are you and I gonna meet up with this 23 year old fucking guy you don't have a 23 year old guy in your basement

0:20:27 Tom: I'm in the basement.

0:20:30 Eli: Well, because I also not not only do we have to meet up with the 23 year old guy, but I have to not dismiss him right away. Forget online spaces like I don't know about you, but like I've been in four rooms in the last 10 years filled with people who disagree with me. And instantly I'm like, oh, sorry. I hope all your children die painfully. Can everyone hear me? Sorry let me get the mic let me just let me give the mic I'm just gonna one second let me the mic thank you thank you I hope all your children die look I don't have so I also need to be the kind of person who doesn't dismiss people who's willing to have those conversations hey

0:21:07 Thomas: I think we start at home. I really think it's like, it's about our kids and then maybe, maybe kids around what?

0:21:11 Eli: Thomas don't dismiss women once you have sex with them okay you said start at home this is who I get to talk to is you max

0:21:19 Thomas: I don't live with you, but yeah, sure. Okay. Thank you. It's yeah. We got to raise our boys, right? Like that's

0:21:24 Eli: Max. Hey, buddy, if you ever notice that other women exist, don't fucking... No.

0:21:29 Tom: I I think more people are reachable than we think. I really do. Maybe this is totally stupid and overly optimistic, but I think what people want to hear, but because I think we've spent a lot of time, and we've talked about this on the show before, I think it's about a lot time socially figuring out what the things we shouldn't do and shouldn't be are for men. And I don't think we're done a very good job replacing it. I think that's created a vacuum that these guys swoop into, but I think an unfulfilling vacuum. And my experience with people, I'd think about the barbershop that I go to. It's a super masculine, super male place, bunch of young guys.

0:22:09 Thomas: Almost had to quit it because someone tried to throw him a ball maybe he almost had to leave forever

0:22:12 Eli: That's true, yeah.

0:22:12 Tom: I did, that's true. That's true, but

0:22:13 Eli: That famous moment.

0:22:14 Thomas: Why he carries a full wedding cake to every hair appointment every time yeah

0:22:15 Tom: I every, like I said, three tiers.

0:22:18 Eli: A big stack of pizza boxes, yeah,

0:22:20 Tom: Three tiers are nothing, Thomas, because somebody could still throw a ball over it unless you're covering your, yeah.

0:22:20 Thomas: They could they could it's fair

0:22:23 Eli: Humming that music. I mean,

0:22:25 Tom: But like what, what I've found at least for me is that like if you hear that kind of stuff, like often if you just like. Don't argue, but just approach it from a real place of like, hey, I don't think that that stuff actually works well for people. Just call it out. That attitude doesn't seem to actually get the results. What do you want to get out of that? Where does that lead you? People are shocked that you will engage them. And they'll engage back. It happens all the time. The guy at the fucking car dealership. We didn't argue. Had actually a suddenly very good conversation. Are more susceptible and more interested because this shit doesn't work because they're trying it and they're not fulfilled. They're trying

0:23:03 Thomas: What blows my mind is how how does this last any length of time like I get that's a it's message that appeals to I guess losers

0:23:08 Eli: You're talking to a guy who shocks himself awake.

0:23:12 Thomas: I mean like how doesthis message this illusion last anylength of time like you iget oh I'm I'm a impressionable young youth and I like see this message and undertake cool like one One interaction later, it should be like, oh, that didn't work. That was bullshit. Never mind. You know, like how.

0:23:22 Eli: What are you wearing? No, because the big I think a big part of the message is that women deserve your hate and disgust. And the negative experiences you have, I it sort of happens in reverse. I think you have a negative experience. You run to the Internet for empathy and the place on the Internet that will give you empathy for feeling rejected is those unhealthy, toxic masculinity spaces.

0:23:41 Thomas: Fair.

0:23:50 Tom: Or even if it's not empathy, I think also people run to the internet because they're like, hey, I don't understand. I'm trying to understand. And when you look at the way these YouTube videos and things are titled, they're titled in ways that are like, I can help you understand. This is explicable.

0:24:07 Eli: 10 reasons you're not making it work with the women in your life.

0:24:10 Tom: And it's like, well, I'm not making it work. Maybe this fits, maybe this resonates, maybe feels right. But genuinely believe that the power of all of that pales in comparison to a real open conversation one -on -one with a flesh human. Really do. Like there's no, you're not winning online, right? Because you're using the same fucking tools and those are shit tools and they've got more of them, but it works in person. My experience is that this works in people are so reachable in person in my experience. I mean, especially on issues where like embracing a philosophy of failure and loneliness and depression.

0:24:46 Thomas: Oh, I'll believe you. But I think Eli and I, especially me, we just never see these people. I don't. I'm more like, how have you ever interacted, A, with anyone and B, with one of these people? That never is going to happen for me.

0:24:55 Eli: I mean, it's that, but it's also like, this is just a depression thought, so by all means, dismiss this, but I've having this itch at the back of my head lately, which is usually a depression though, but everything's real bad right now. Like, everything's real broken. Everything's real twisted. Everybody's, like, ill and unhappy and sad and the economy's broken and jobs are less in supply. Like, I don't know anybody who's okay right now. The way. It just seems to be compounding in a way that is so far beyond. Like I feel like I'm in a war zone.

0:25:31 Eli: Right. Like, I feel like I have so little control over my life. All I can do is like survive. My life, sorry. I actually have a really wonderful amount of control over my life. I have very little control Over my life I only have, I have, that was involuntary There was no way I could stop my body from doing that. That was like a fart or a sneeze Um, no way I Can make things Better is crazy because most people make things better like one -on -one, but we have pretty big platforms. I mean, not on this show, but I still don't feel like we can make things. Better. Do you guys get where I'm coming with from that? Or am I, is that just like a, Eli's a sad boy doing a sad Boy monologue thought

0:25:40 Thomas: My life. Yeah.

0:26:14 Tom: I think I get where you're coming at with it, but I think you we're not making a global impact, it feels like we're now making any impact. But I know with real certainty, because I know if I've gotten the emails, you've gotten them. Males. Have made an impact in people's lives. I know it with real actual certainty that people feel differently about the world that they live in sometimes because of the things that we do and the things we say. I know that. So like, I do think that there's an, is it, are we, are reaching a hundred million people? No, we're not reaching a million people. We're not that big. Unfortunately, it's just not going to happen.

0:26:49 Eli: Not reaching 1 million people, right?

0:26:51 Tom: We're not touching those numbers, but we're doing nothing either. Got to kind in perspective, I think, is that most people walking around in the world have no platform, no microphone at all. They get to influence only the people that they literally reach out and touch in a day. We get to do that to some order of magnitude more. Whether it's one or two, it's more. It's more like I look at that. I'm like, all right, cool. Like that's better than I could have done otherwise. I got to accept that it's not a million people, but I'll tell you what, if I didn't have a platform like this, it would only be my kids and a handful of people at the barbershop and the kid at the car dealership. And that would be it. Know, I just think it's different. I don't minimize it like really like truly don't minimise it those

0:27:36 Thomas: I would say don't minimize affecting a handful of people you think the internet may also

0:27:40 Tom: I was talking like specifically right to Eli like right now like in that moment.

0:27:43 Thomas: I know well me too like I'm saying like the internet may give us the skewed idea of the scope of what we could ever even do or what we should feel like we should aspire to like we aren'T responsible for the whole world it doesn't I'm not saying you don't try your best obviously and if we had the platform to try to use it the best we can. But like we also I think it I think it makes us the internet makes everybody a little crazy. I think it makes Us think we have to fix everything. Otherwise we're doing nothing and really it's like a lot of people need to fix one thing, you know?

0:27:44 Tom: That's true

0:28:10 Eli: Yeah.

0:28:10 Tom: Yeah, well, and the problem, too, is that the democratization of like platforming like that with with the Internet makes us think that we all have the same responsibility. But we don't all have this responsibility. You have a responsibility that that is literally concomitant with the size of your audience. So and a lot of that is luck. A lot of it is random. A of that virality stuff is just, hey, there's nothing you could have done to plan it, to create it, People would be doing it all the time. It's like most of life is fucking luck. So you just you just kind of accept that and be like, yeah, all right. Sure. Like that person I'm looking at is reaching 100 million people. But that's not because they're it's just lucky. They got lucky in a way that like I didn't. But I reached I reached 100 people. I reached 10 people. That's got to fucking matter. Like, I feel like it does. When I read this, like Humans of New York post. Guy feels like somebody who's fucking reachable. He's describing experiences he's miserable in, He's not describing an experience where he's like having a good time. Very What evident here is he's a misogynist who doesn't understand how his misogyny is hurting him. But

0:29:17 Tom: He's somebody who can be made to understand that because he's hurt. Right? The fact that this isn't working, the fact that he doesn't feel good about it, that tells me this is a guy you could reach. You could probably reach this guy in an afternoon if you could sit and buy him a cup of coffee and get him to at least begin to shift. I guarantee this guy doesn't have a single platonic female friend, right?

0:29:41 Eli: Oh, for sure.

0:29:41 Thomas: Yeah.

0:29:42 Tom: Because he doesn't see, he's never been taught to see women as humans, as fully human. He's been taught as a commodity, as a kind of thing that he wants, that he is supposed to pursue, that is supposed provide value to him. He been taught that there is an an object object relationship here. But it's making him miserable. Think more of these fucking people are more miserable than we think. Most people are fucking sad. I really do. I think those people can be reached because it's not working. And if you can get them to open up even a little bit, some juice there. They are people having an experience.

0:30:24 Thomas: Also think we just need to get rid of the internet though because because it's like I like and by analogy.

0:30:28 Eli: That's a big part of it.

0:30:28 Tom: Well, dude, I mean, are you just now listening to me yelling for the last 10 years?

0:30:33 Thomas: By analogy now my solution in actual terms is you should have to have an identification. There should be no anonymous internet that would solve a lot of this, not all of it. But also I'm thinking of is like food, like processed bullshit food is not working for any of us. Like it's literally killing us. It's terrible. It's good for us in any way, but individuals can make it work in different ways. Like individuals can choose better diets and individuals can, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Individuals can educate people, but like that takes effort. It's swimming upstream. And it's this weird thing where you can take an attitude of like, well, yeah, but an individual can overcome that. So therefore the individual is to blame, which I think is, is the attitude. A lot of people take about these things. It's really unhealthy in my mind, or you can look at it like a systems problem and be like, yeah. If we could fucking solve the food supply a little bit, or if we, you know, that or what's the podcast equivalent of a GLP one maybe we need to do that whatever that is

0:31:31 Eli: Hardcore history. Because it kills you. Before we go, as a child, I was attacked by cameras. I still have flashbacks.

0:31:49 Tom: No, the last two were pretty good. The last two are actually pretty good, I didn't hate that.

0:31:54 Thomas: Appreciate it no they're better

0:31:55 Eli: Well, I've been selling them. I've

0:31:58 Tom: No, they were better written jokes, yeah.

0:31:59 Eli: Putting my whole jocussy into

0:32:01 Tom: Yeah, how's

0:32:07 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, tom smith who also wrote and recorded the intro music which is used with his permission this podcast is a production of daddy issues llc copyright 2022 all rights reserved

0:32:48 Thomas: Trying to be gay here.

0:32:49 Eli: My whole jocussy into this.

0:32:52 Thomas: I'm an impressionable young youth and

0:32:55 Eli: Are you wearing?