DOD173: Free-Range Parenting - Good Idea? Or Eli's Nightmare. Or Both.

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and utter dependence. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired. Yelling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:28 Eli: To Dear Old Dads the podcast that tom curry shows up to occasionally I'm eli bosnick and I'm joined as always by thomas smith but today we've got two special guests the one and only heath enright and the two and only lydia smith there's

0:00:33 Lydia: Hold on there's another lady out there are you telling me is she seeing anyone can we find this twin I joined today to announce Smith number four I'm just kidding just kidding everybody don't worry it's not happening

0:01:00 Heath: Scream

0:00:59 Eli: Yeah this one is actually just a scream it's just a single long howl lydia

0:01:08 Heath: Scombert smith love it let's

0:01:11 Lydia: Truly vasectomy

0:01:12 Eli: Now we're on the subject give us the your angle on the vasectomy update how close are you to just taking his scissors to Thomas while he sleeps. Give us your Remy update.

0:01:15 Lydia: Update

0:01:24 Eli: Cause we get that. We get the dad report. Give us, give us the mom's eye view.

0:01:22 Lydia: Um oh god oh god well one day I put on baby shark on repeat probably like 20 times in a row in the car because it was the only thing the only him from screaming yeah um and so I just listened to baby shark over and over and ever and over again um it was worth it because the other option is him screaming and that's it's way worse yeah it's worse yeah hon do you think I'm down playing it at all for the audience no you're not I have anything I'm under capturing I have more videos maybe I'll share them it's so bad it's bad

0:01:46 Eli: It's getting worse. They videos of Thomas doing pull -ups wall? Remy screams. I was going to say, uh, Lydia, would you like to take another crack at that? But joining me in the gaslighting of Thomas? Cause I do, I would say it's going to be a lot. Uh, we'll get there.

0:02:05 Lydia: No she can't fortunately my wife is not that's not part of her uh that's just not part who she is

0:02:13 Eli: We're good there, Eldog. We'll get There. All

0:02:14 Lydia: But yeah tom's Some lazy ass is in the ER or something. Some, you know, typical, like, excuse bullshit about an emergency, you know, maybe

0:02:21 Eli: It's fine. I'm sure he'll talk about it when he comes back and accepts the pay for this episode. Uh, so, but Heath, Heath, you're, you'RE awful quiet over there. So can you tell us, is there anything worse than we're making having children sound? Ha

0:02:26 Lydia: If he comes back.

0:02:38 Heath: Let's talk about some better help what do you got what do you got going oh

0:02:41 Lydia: We don't know. That's the beauty part of the auto ads. No one knows.

0:02:43 Eli: We don't know. That's the best part. Yeah.

0:02:45 Lydia: Add roulette.

0:02:45 Heath: Let's talk about a woman from Michigan screaming at me about like a crypto coin she invented because I'm in Michigan and listening to it

0:02:51 Lydia: Love it. Love it, no

0:02:53 Eli: Ooh, yes. Yes. Yes, my auto ads are very sure that I speak Spanish, but there is one way to get rid of the auto ads, podcast listener, and it's by supporting the show. Yes, over at Patreon.com/dearolddads, all spelled out. I remembered the name of the show, of the program that we're doing for the radio program. Over at Patreon dot com, Dear Old Daddy, get a commercial free extended version with a parenting episode. On this on the end of this show heath is gonna dox his kind of sort of step kid that'll be fun it's gonna give us their cell phone number actually on uh

0:03:01 Lydia: Way.

0:03:25 Heath: What hey

0:03:32 Eli: And then our patrons are really just gonna text whatever they want to that kid so stay tuned lock in lock out

0:03:39 Heath: Patrons get ready you're gonna get roasted hard nice

0:03:42 Lydia: I issue Tom an apology. I didn't realize how much he really is the glue that holds this thing together.

0:03:46 Eli: Things on the rails you know

0:03:48 Lydia: What is happening? I don't even know where we are right now. But yeah, we'll make it work.

0:03:49 Eli: 13 year old cell phone number patreon.com/dearolddads rip into it yes I didn't want I didn't want to I didn't want to set you up and then not have you rip into so yeah you will delete my audio and that's your rip into to it

0:03:57 Lydia: Rip into it. I beat you. Oh, please. I'm the number one ripper into itter. I don't know. It's true it's true

0:04:11 Eli: One's ripped in harder than lydia all speaking of ripping into your children today we're going to talk about irresponsible parenting in the guise of I don't know fucking now but here let me let me read you this article from my unbiased and very reasonable position called someone's gonna fuck my kid whatever could I have done to have stopped it this this article is the reason I am the crazy parent I am is because there's parents out there like this person that's fair thank you you know I appreciate the correction alright so this article comes to us from the business insider hey can we say little behind the scenes with Tom isn't here Tom has nothing but dog shit sources every time he drops like it's from the fucking Atlantic and Wall Street Journal and racism.com like he's never

0:04:31 Lydia: Neutral voice oh my god yeah I was gonna say I'm calling bullshit on that

0:04:43 Heath: It's not that is not why sounds

0:04:53 Lydia: Business insider where I go for my parenting tips racism

0:05:11 Eli: Read a parenting magazine but this is from business insider uh and it's called I set up a free range play date for our kids in our area parents take turns watching the group and we don't hover over them as they play uh

0:05:12 Lydia: racism.com

0:05:25 Heath: Super healthy you're against this and

0:05:26 Eli: Am against this of course because someone will kill these children yes

0:05:31 Heath: They might touch a grass

0:05:32 Lydia: I well first off there's no more danger Remy is ever in than when he's screaming in my house all day that's the most personal danger he's ever gonna be in public he's the danger really yeah these kids aren't locked in here no I'm I'm not locked in with these free-range kids these free range kids are locked in there with me yeah yeah but at first I was like oh great this is uh interesting free-range parenting and then I will say as much as I think Eli might be wrong about this early in the article it does say I read the anxious generation by fucking some anti-woke piece of shit okay well this is probably going to be bullshit but that aside I did want to talk about the free-rangedness of parenting and how not free-range it is but I thought having heath on that's a great opportunity to learn more about heath and I want to know heath were you a free range type kid did you did

0:05:40 Eli: That's that's true yeah locked in yeah ramshark how free range were you heathen right

0:06:25 Lydia: You have to go get your own toothpicks to put in your own sandwiches which is calluses.

0:06:25 Heath: I was all the way free free range kid. Yeah. No, I, I whittled them down myself. It was like, go get me a switch. Go whittle me a toothpick. Yeah, but it was good. I learned, I learned from it. It made me tougher. My mouth, especially the tissue, the soft tissue of the palate toughens up.

0:06:33 Eli: You learned the important ways it's

0:06:44 Heath: It's like, you know, like the Muay Thai people, they did the shin bones get calcified. It is like that for

0:06:44 Eli: True he but the inside of his cheeks yeah exactly so younger members of our audience or for the members of the audience whose parents love them explain what you mean by free range was this riding bikes with your friends after school or is this what tom's mom didn't get arrested for like what are we talking about here

0:07:03 Heath: What did she not get arrested for?

0:07:08 Lydia: God.

0:07:08 Heath: Just so I'm clear.

0:07:08 Eli: His whole childhood one long series of things

0:07:09 Lydia: You name it. Yeah.

0:07:12 Heath: Oh, okay. No. So I definitely grew up in the time of like, yeah, you can go play outside, especially at, you know, once you're above super young ages, you go play sometimes outside. You don't need parental direct supervision at all moments. That would be crazy.

0:07:13 Lydia: What environment are you, are we talking like suburb environment, city environment, country environment? What are we, what are we we talking?

0:07:33 Heath: Yeah. I grew up in the suburbs, lived to park land. So So there was just grass everywhere or like soccer fields or tennis courts or baseball fields, whatever.

0:07:38 Lydia: That's cool. Yeah. Oh man.

0:07:42 Heath: So yeah, we'd go out, we pick up games of whatever, basketball, roller hockey, soccer. Yeah, all the time.

0:07:48 Eli: Without uh geolocating heath too quickly relatively close to his childhood home there is a baseball diamond that might as well have the american dream hanging from one of its fence posts just face blue shit running down its leg like if they could get gatsby up there that is heath's hometown yeah

0:08:07 Heath: Yeah, there's a little bust of me there. I was a pretty big deal at that little league field for a while.

0:08:10 Eli: Four and oh I don't know is that a sports thing four and own is a sports thing

0:08:13 Lydia: What how many

0:08:17 Heath: I was undefeated, but I was way more than four, you know.

0:08:19 Eli: How many is an impressive I donno how many times is it I

0:08:21 Lydia: Times do you think they play first off eli what unit this is the best what unit of time were you going for like what did you think that covered high school what would you he said four and oh all his whole childhood it's

0:08:32 Eli: Was thinking all the years I was thinking four years yeah

0:08:36 Heath: I won the, I was eight. I won, I wasn't eight.

0:08:39 Lydia: A biannual thing you play one game every two years I think it's roughly that's

0:08:42 Eli: That's how long baseball feels to be fair

0:08:45 Lydia: A good point you know you make a good place with you yeah no want to know for what did you mean

0:08:52 Eli: that'S what I meant I spent four years four I meant the number four I you know that

0:08:55 Lydia: Four no oh like four championships or something for high school is that where you were going with it okay kind

0:09:00 Eli: He struggled to come up with not realizing a number would have to be clarified uh what about you lydia were you a relatively free range kid yeah

0:09:06 Lydia: Of so the way that my house was when I um was young I grew up in a townhouse and um it was kind of uh near a pretty major road so we had like rules and stuff like we were only allowed to stay on our side of the road kind of thing but we could kind of go around in the neighborhood my sister and I would go like rollerblading and stuff um we had Like very specific rules still like we're not crossing that street by ourselves um yeah cars actually are really fucking dangerous to kids so yeah but then as I like you

0:09:37 Heath: Plus there's the greasers on the other side of that track so like

0:09:39 Lydia: Could

0:09:40 Eli: There was evil lydia's twin on the other side too that was really

0:09:41 Lydia: Snap at them but that's That's all. Oh, okay. But honestly, like, as I was growing up, I started doing theater just a ton. So I didn't really have, like a lot of free time. Like all my free time was spent in rehearsal. So I wasn't like out and about, you at parks a bunch. I was learning dances. Yeah. You happy, Eli?

0:10:02 Eli: As a fellow former theater kid it's pretty crazy how intense a rehearsal schedule they gave us for our shitty musicals huh yeah that just like a bunch of 10 and 11 year olds were like yeah we're doing six shows this week so it's pretty it's just like fucking do one do what it doesn't matter it's gonna be bad no matter what you do

0:10:08 Lydia: For nine year olds. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Know, ours were really, really good at my theater company.

0:10:22 Eli: Everyone says that Lydia every literally every no Lydia everyone says that

0:10:25 Lydia: We're going to talk about this later, Eli, because I have a lot to talk to you about about this. Well, let's talk about this because there's free range parenting. And then you're like, oh, well, Lydia, you know, she had people around. She wasn't doing that. So, you Know, from Eli's perspective, that's so much safer. Well, the first five or so years of our relationship was just her saying something about this experience and me being like, I think that was abusive. Yeah, I feel like I I think that guy sucked actually yeah oh no you see it was just the atmosphere of fear that you needed for nine and ten year olds yeah

0:10:55 Eli: I heard it when she said did theater that was what did theater means

0:10:59 Lydia: The only way to get truly majestic performances out of 10 and 11 year olds is a constant state of fear created by a male who runs yes yes this pointless fucking thing that doesn't need to exist if it causes trauma in children's lives yeah that's fair Yeah.

0:11:06 Eli: Of emotional and sometimes physical abuse yeah absolutely yeah the new london players yeah that's fair now

0:11:21 Lydia: I mean, we had parent chaperones and stuff like that. So, like, I mean it was to some degree kind of reminiscent of what this article was talking about. Right. It wasn't a parent for every single child. It was, you know, in this case it was one parent for 10 to 15 kids or something. And in ours there were X number of chaperons that were required per rehearsal. They were in charge of, you knows, sometimes like 40, 50 kids, 60 kids. It sort of depended on who was called. But, yeah. Yeah. But you wouldn't. That's interesting, though, because you wouldn'T consider that free range at all. It's like the outside part. You need to be outside. And like we weren't left to our own devices. Right. We weren't we weren'T kind of creating our own musicals like we had very, very specific things that we had to do during those rehearsal time periods.

0:12:01 Eli: You were putting on a professional production you had dance call you had some music rehearsal there's

0:12:06 Lydia: You're not wrong, Eli.

0:12:06 Heath: It'd be awesome if you

0:12:09 Eli: Not molestation time built into the schedule otherwise maybe that's

0:12:10 Lydia: Yes, I mean.

0:12:09 Heath: Just if you just ifyou just went out in the woods and like improvised a musical with your friends that'd beawesome we should have that

0:12:19 Lydia: So 4 -0 we we did do stuff like that at recess yeah yeah that's at school

0:12:20 Eli: What they go you go have

0:12:26 Heath: I that's that's important though the parents not always being there part because parents are in my experience especially with sports that's where my childhood was parents are psychopaths when it comes to sports and when we when we just played like pickup games it was so good it was like oh we just like played roller hockey together and there weren't parents there being insane it was just fun and good well

0:12:51 Eli: No one's telling anyone to get their head in the game whatever that means

0:12:54 Heath: I was but like you know not a parent I'm not an authority I

0:12:58 Lydia: Well check your privilege heath if you had if there was a single bullying situation then you were fucked so I don't know were you tall enough to not get bullied or something but

0:13:07 Heath: Tall and getting bullied unfortunately yeah all

0:13:09 Lydia: Then again the spy the bullying didn't matter if the if the coaches were there or not so now I think about it didn't really matter but like okay so heath how much of your you know day-to-day as a kid was just unsupervised like outside time that

0:13:23 Eli: Much of your day-to-day now it's unsupervised outside time

0:13:25 Lydia: Sounds

0:13:26 Heath: Both a lot so for for sure it was kind of just standard so I lived in in the burbs and there was a a of houses where a bunch of my friends lived that was pretty close also you know on the other side of this park so like a bunch of us were walking distance or biking distance from each other so pretty regularly on like just a weekend day when you're like 10 years old a handful of friends might just kind of come over and we'd have a start-up of soccer game on a Saturday afternoon or something like that.

0:13:54 Lydia: Great very sandlot yeah that's so this article was about do we cover enough of that it's it's a a group that they just go to like okay so they you put kids in a dog park essentially and then one one parent like watches over them so are you calling are this is like a negative thing you like because I feel like our chump kids Like they're just they're so they're so soft, you know, like they're so I love them, but like they could never walk to a place. And well, except Arlo, he already started doing that as a kid. But that's dangerous. Yeah.

0:13:57 Eli: That was it yeah no you got it yeah and yeah

0:14:28 Lydia: But like I sort of felt like if this existed with a trusted parent, like let's assume this is somebody, you Know, and they're not a murderer, child molester. Would Would you be like, oh, yeah, let's let's try this. Or is it just you're too scared of having. Go ahead.

0:14:41 Eli: So I have a trusted group of parents at this point my nerd dads there's like four nerd dads that are all friends and we all go to each other's houses and stuff but the notion that we would just be like it's your turn we sleep together in the same bed because we're real friends and unlike you guys we're not afraid not afraid to hold another man in our arms while we slumber

0:14:45 Lydia: They sleep together yes

0:15:01 Heath: I was picturing, like, stacked bunks. But, okay, you mingle it up sometimes.

0:15:02 Eli: Lydia

0:15:03 Lydia: This is the hotel situation the I do

0:15:05 Eli: Gets it Lydia gets that she's a theater kid thank you you are anyways but I would I would never just so there's so many facets here but the first facet right the facet that I think strikes me the most is the notion that you would put one parent in charge you take the one thing that's nice about having parent friends which is like we're all kind of watching each other's kids we're dividing up the workload and you're like hey you know your nightmare we multiply it now we multiply and if anything goes wrong we don't get to be friends anymore

0:15:10 Lydia: Cuddle time's the best time porno yeah okay but but what I liked about it though is the the rotating right so it's like this This weekend, so-and-so's in charge, but they're not in charge all the time. Rotational trauma. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know. I just, like, I know how valuable it is to me when I have, you Phoebe's friends, parents are like, you know, feel free to drop her off and, like. Leave. I'm like, oh, thank God. Yeah. I really appreciate it. We've had that happen a couple times. I'm, like, you deserve a Nobel Prize for even suggesting that. I know. And Anding. Yes, we have felt hesitant to do that, though, because it is weird to be like, we'll take your kid. Doesn't that seem I feel like we haven't done that because it feels odd to offer. Hey, deliver. I haven't your tasty kid to our doorstep. No, I haven't done it because we're working all the time and I don't want more kids here. So but

0:16:02 Eli: See I do it all the time because I'm it's a subtle way of saying hey hey I'm a better parent like if you need someone to take over for a little while just just so you know like we got it over here like maybe we'll teach him some math or make him a nutritious snack that he's never tasted before and his taste buds will explode with the freshness of our berries I'm just saying like if you want you can leave your kid here for a taste of the good life for a second can

0:16:47 Lydia: Did you ruin Remy then? Is that what it was? That like after you watched him, he's never been the same?

0:16:54 Eli: I say he was in our house for 45 minutes or however many hours because he fell asleep really quickly and then And he came back to you full of hunger for what? Bosnian freedom. Do you consider that?

0:17:07 Lydia: I don't know, man. That's like saying Sauron had like a bad night and that's why. I'm not going to give Eli the credit of creating this.

0:17:16 Eli: Haven't watched the new Lord of the Rings. That's actually what happened. He just had a bad night and then he decided to be

0:17:21 Lydia: What I want to know is what the ratio is you know because nowadays too with the daycare in the school they got the ratio stuff it's one adult for how many depends on the age but yeah but it's not many and this situation in this article sounds like I don't know a dozen it may seem like to me anyway it's a lot of kids

0:17:38 Heath: Think they went up to 15 to 1 in the article.

0:17:40 Lydia: Which at that point the parent is just there to provide a body bag for whoever dies like that's not you know what I mean but like like a teacher is you know like a 1 to 24 ratio for a good class right and they're with them all day long this was a two-hour block for up to 15 kids doesn't mean there were going to be 15 kids and theyre all from ages 5 to 12 and I think that that's 5 to to 12 that's a that's a tough that's the other thing the age gap that's tough you don't want watch like your young kid playing with the older kids I don't know again supervised honestly but again it's not it's a it's not completely unsupervised if there's an emergency or a major issue and I'm sure knowing kids if someone's really really driving them crazy they're gonna run to that parent and go ahead and like tattle like that's gonna happen yeah

0:18:23 Heath: Thought the 15 to 1 was pretty good. I thought that was a good, like... faculty-to-student ratio. That's like a small liberal arts college. That's, like a seminar.

0:18:28 Lydia: Good point yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:18:31 Heath: That's good stuff.

0:18:31 Lydia: It's impressive. Yeah.

0:18:32 Eli: And to be fair, ages 5 to 15 is very similar to a college classroom. So he's on to something here. So, Heath, I have to ask, because, you know, as much as we joke about it, you are now at least in part a parent. Is this a, have you been in a situation where you're kind of sort of stepchild has had, in part because of step?

0:18:39 Heath: Thank you. You in part because step wow I

0:18:51 Eli: And also because I don't think you're really into it.

0:18:55 Lydia: Just mentally. Oh,

0:18:58 Heath: Parenting stuff like do do you practice at sports or I do like extra math stuff or extra whatever you know tutoring studying up for the test coming up stuff like that

0:19:03 Eli: This is true. You've done some tutoring. -hmm.

0:19:07 Lydia: That's awesome. Yeah. But you're not you're a full time, though. It's not like every day you wake up and you're parenting like actively. Yeah.

0:19:14 Eli: The stepchild is also old enough that I think it would be weird.

0:19:17 Heath: We're talking 14 year old yeah

0:19:18 Eli: A 14 year old if you're waking up and being like raisin bran they're like get out of here stranger get well my buddy uh occasionally max will be like I want to do when we're over at his house and he'll be like oh I can do it that's it that'S the extent is like he'll go wander off with Jonathan instead of with me that is exact that is my line of comfort and even then I do like uh all right that's like 20 Mississippi I think it's time for me to take back over again I don't know what if he's not

0:19:23 Heath: Put

0:19:48 Lydia: I mean, it's also different depending on the needs of the child. Like, yeah, I I don't know. You know, what's interesting is Arlo is like our most independent child, which the experiences of people with, know, I children possibly on the spectrum, I think are a different, you know, depending. It's just every every kid is different, because like Remy, on the other hand, our is the most needy just being like in the universe. Like there's no more needier being and I don't I guess we don't know what the fuck's going on with that guy but it's it's like it also depends on the kid you know oh

0:20:19 Eli: Hugely huge so for us like when it comes to Max right is such an independent player that he can do by himself for genuinely hours like I would not be worried about If he's within earshot, he's going to let me know what's going on. By contrast, if he's playing with other kids, cause he's not an amazing sharer. And, and we also, I think I've talked about this on the show before, but we set a precedent, right? Cause he just plays with us all the time. So we would build block towers and he would knock them down. Down then he gets into the real world where other children build block towers and they don't want him to knock him down but like that's the only way he has ever played that game so we've been spending the last year being like yeah sometimes kids want to right yeah well no we spent his whole life training yeah training him to be an asshole and we've Been desperately trying to undo our damage which is very funny because all we have gotten to negotiation wise is we've been like hey buddy you have to ask before you knock over someone's block tower so now my kid like some kind of weird prison yard situation whenever we go to like a play park or something we'll walk over to kids building blocks and be like can I knock down your can I destroy what you've made I want

0:20:51 Lydia: Training him to be an asshole undoing it yeah yeah trying to undo it right yeah yeah sorry

0:21:29 Eli: To see rome burn

0:21:29 Heath: Your hand in my pocket and let me knock down your tower why didn't you just have it be like hey don't knock down towers.

0:21:32 Eli: Yes exactly well that's the fun part of building towers you can't eliminate the fun of building towers well

0:21:41 Lydia: It's the architecture and

0:21:40 Heath: What? If I built a tower and a kid knocked it over, it could be my kid or not. I'm being like, hey, what the fuck?

0:21:43 Lydia: The design I'll knock you over yeah

0:21:49 Eli: I don't think you understand the funofknockingoveratowerthen

0:21:51 Heath: I would have said it nicer than that, but there would have been a lesson learned. It would have Been a teachable moment.

0:21:52 Eli: I use an I messages at my four-year-old while he just kicks blocks around and point was heath have you been in a other people's kids situation yet right where your step kid is there and there's also another child and that other child has been been like you're the adult in the room how has that been have you experienced it and how has it been if you have so

0:22:19 Heath: Haven't experienced much of that. Again, with a 14 year old, it's like, you high school friend comes over and hangs out and I'm not like, uh, authority figure, like making sure nothing goes wrong. Cause nothing is going gonna go wrong they're just hanging out they're like studying or they're talking or whatever so

0:22:31 Lydia: Just have to provide the pot

0:22:31 Eli: They want you to believe yeah they

0:22:34 Heath: And that's easy I have good stuff it's legal here even

0:22:38 Eli: They don't know they don'T know what's good they DON'T know what's bad yeah

0:22:41 Heath: If it was illegal here I'd have good stuff yeah no I haven't experienced the like you idea is like you would have to do some amount of parenting to another kid that's not your kid and that'S that weird line

0:22:49 Eli: That's that's the thing because whenever the in the nerd dads whenever a friend comes over and I am parenting another child I usually feel pretty good about it like I feel pretty comfortable with it one because just most kids are easier than mine but also just like I got it right like they first of all they can fucking talk right just a little they can all the way talk so they'll be like excuse me mr botnik where are the blueberries and I'm like oh fucking awesome great yeah uh you can't have any

0:23:16 Lydia: I ate him. Yeah.

0:23:18 Heath: I'll teach a little crokinole I'll be like way too serious about crokanole yeah for

0:23:24 Lydia: Man. I can't wait. Oh, I like that.

0:23:26 Eli: Get him in on the croak and all that's good that's a good plan that's

0:23:28 Lydia: Do we think that there's a problem here? I mean, this has been kind It's been a topic. It's that like there's kids don't have enough time kind of out of the strict view of a bunch of adults. And like there is a part of me that thinks it's definitely true to some extent. But I don't know how much I guess. Yeah.

0:23:44 Heath: That feels definitely true agree really

0:23:47 Lydia: And it's like for example when if ever would you have your kid walk to school? Know if you live nearby school. And Eli the answer is what never?

0:23:56 Eli: Never by himself so

0:23:58 Lydia: Yeah what if it's a half a mile?

0:24:01 Eli: 100 true 100 true the school where max will go to elementary school is 194 steps from the front door of my house and he will listen to me never do that walk by himself not one time with

0:24:18 Lydia: Do you mean by himself without you or like if he was going with friends? Yeah, is this a laziness thing?

0:24:22 Eli: His own legs I've got him in one of those robo things that they use from Boston dynamic. And I'm like, no, this is what this is for those walking wheelchairs that like take $10,000 worse.

0:24:35 Lydia: Like if He was going to walk to school with friends or something, is that okay? Is it just that you don't want him? Okay. Wow, interesting.

0:24:40 Lydia: Interesting take. Well, we know you could riddle that whole walk with cameras.

0:24:46 Eli: Absolutely not. Could, and I will.

0:24:47 Heath: I think we know he has and is still saying no they

0:24:49 Lydia: He probably already has. Yeah.

0:24:50 Eli: If my GoPro setup doesn't have any gaps, then I am open to the possibility.

0:24:54 Lydia: Eli's Eli's known who that shooter was for a while. I'm just not going to share.

0:24:58 Eli: Didn't. Yeah. Yeah. God. So sad.

0:25:01 Lydia: I shouldn't have confessed that on the air.

0:25:03 Eli: So sad.

0:25:04 Lydia: It is. I

0:25:05 Eli: Yummy. You guys see the pictures of his Twitter? What?

0:25:07 Lydia: We can't. We don't have a neighborhood. I don't know when this is. This is going out like weeks from what? A week and a half from now? I don't know. Should we? We'll still be yummy in a week and half.

0:25:12 Eli: He's Yummy. He didn't he didn't become not yummy in a week and a half. He got washboard abs.

0:25:17 Lydia: He's a Joe Rogan anti-woke bro, though.

0:25:20 Eli: Okay. That's fine.

0:25:21 Lydia: This fucking sucks.

0:25:22 Eli: We have to be forgiving as a community. Hey, hey, let me open up my heart for a second. Okay, we're skeptics. We had bad ideas and sometimes we redeem ourselves by shooting a guy in the head a bunch of times is he perfect no did he shoot a guy in the head yes open your hearts that's

0:25:38 Lydia: But did he get not enough free range parenting or too much is what the topic of the show is

0:25:45 Eli: A problem they say see I bet his mom wouldn't have let him shoot that guy or at the very least would have killed that old guy in that mcdonald's to make sure that nobody could have told on him that's what I'm saying is because here's my issue with the free range parenting right to get to the matter at hand right to voice my my concern. Let's say I agree to this. I never would. Right. But let's say agree to this. All right. My kid is just going to be in a fucking herd of other kids. And Doris from the playground who I've spoken to six times at both times, she's mentioned that she's got a new Stanley water, but I don't even know what that is. I don'T know the differences. I DON'T understand why a brand is important to her. I DON't understand where her brand loyalty comes from

0:26:23 Lydia: You guys

0:26:24 Heath: Keep it really warm or cold well

0:26:24 Lydia: Are gonna lose a lot of patrons

0:26:24 Eli: Dorsey's gonna watch it right and then I come back and he's crying that's not okay right what happened I don't know I was looking on I was on Amazon looking at the new Stanley. Okay, right? And that's the best right. Crying is the best case scenario if something terrible happens right like if he gets hurt and needs to go to the hospital you don't even need to die right if he just gets hurt now right because you can't the problem is that community has now failed you right so you can'T then go oh all right well I guess next week when it's my turn to watch I'm gonna fucking what's that what's the skater later Tonya Harding her kid and then it'll be even like

0:26:31 Lydia: Who do you kill yeah

0:27:07 Eli: The the problem IS that there's no out for like what if this goes wrong because the implied out is like yeah your kid might get hurt and something terrible might happen but like don't be a dick about it

0:27:22 Lydia: Don't know but I mean like like sometimes your kid gets hurt like when you're when you'RE the parent on duty like like and then Eli hits himself in his own balls yeah I

0:27:27 Heath: What I was gonna say too like max cries with you sometimes, right?

0:27:26 Eli: Incorrect incorrect false no no he's never cried in his whole life that's where you're that's Where You're Mistaken hey

0:27:37 Heath: Also, it an opportunity where Max gets mildly hurt and doesn't get taken to the hospital, unlike his normal situation.

0:27:45 Lydia: It might be an opportunity that's true that's it might be an opportunity for Max to not get instantly taken to the hospital when something's wrong? Is that what you're saying?

0:27:45 Eli: I showed up for the podcast okay yeah he's he'll be confused he'll like okay I did scrape my knee but I'm not in an ambulance I don't understand you scrape your knee you're supposed to go in it you know like kids want a boo -boo for everything right like they go through that band -aid phase we're like right my son is like oh we call ambulance now right because you know food will be a little hot

0:28:07 Lydia: Max wants an ambulance. I do I do think, though, that like this.

0:28:17 Heath: Now he can only come in an ambulance when he's older. It's no good for

0:28:19 Eli: Setting him up for success

0:28:24 Lydia: I do think, though, that there is an element of this that would, for example, would be really good for Phoebe, because whenever Thomas and I are like, hey, hey, you guys like go play, go, go do your own thing. Sometimes we'll get like a lot of pushback. Like, I don't know what to do. There's nothing to do there's I'm bored, etc, etc. Whereas like we have, you know, half an acre for our backyard. And we're very fortunate for that. But like the kids, like if we tell them to go play outside, there's so much pushback for a while. And this idea that like, they don't Know what to play, if they're having to kind of create that space themselves and I feel like they would with more opportunities like that is only good for them to kind of like force them to figure out how to get out of boredom and to be creative and stuff we got a couple separate issues going on so there's... there's on one hand there's the the supervision issue which is one thing and then our issue which is we've accidentally exposed our kids to the most fun things that exist which is switch you know nintendo games and stuff and so You say

0:28:56 Eli: Blowjobs

0:29:25 Lydia: We. You say, we. I was not part of this. We, mistakes were made. We, uh-uh, uh-uh.

0:29:25 Eli: Collectively

0:29:32 Lydia: We are a household. I thought we were in on this together. Listen, I can only barely beat the rabbit. Yeah, yeah. Let's be real. It's me. And now, in Mario Odyssey, there's a bunch of rabbits.

0:29:32 Eli: Tribe yeah there's a rabbit the fuck's oh yeah

0:29:50 Lydia: There's tons of them. I get the first rabbit.

0:29:51 Eli: The first rabbit yeah okay sorry I

0:29:53 Lydia: That's all I can do.

0:29:53 Eli: Was picturing the rabbits in breath of the wild and I was like you just kill those man they don't have a they don'T how are you losing to the rabbit of

0:29:59 Lydia: They fight back but yeah on the other hand it's that where it's like they know they've they've drunk from the forbidden chalice of you know like just of just so much fun that like now when I tell arlo to do anything other than switch he literally just lays down to die like he's just like he is like no I I don't, nothing else is anything. And he just lays, he lays down like, like Yoda when, when he gives up with Luke's bullshit and just dies after just, and he just, Arlo just goes invisible and he's gone. Yeah.

0:30:11 Eli: Screen yeah yeah yeah Yeah. Yes.

0:30:34 Heath: Feels not great. That feels not right.

0:30:36 Eli: But it feels, but can I say

0:30:38 Heath: There's an anti-woke book about it that's probably wrong, but there's a kernel of truth to that book. It sounds like you're

0:30:38 Eli: As someone, but here's the thing. That's what I do. Right?

0:30:46 Lydia: Yeah.

0:30:46 Eli: Like if I was, if I was scrolling infinitely through my phone, which I do all the time until I'm asleep or crying. Right. And someone came by and they were like, go run around outside. I'd be like, no, don't want, especially if that person had absolute absolute authority over me heath

0:31:06 Lydia: Exactly. You're hitting on exactly the point, Eli, which is I get to the point.

0:31:10 Eli: I can hear you planning taking my phone away next time you see me and I would like you to stop it I'm

0:31:14 Heath: Going to be so happy. You're going to have like serotonin in your system again,

0:31:17 Eli: Not I don't make that that's why I take the pills I have to buy it from the store get

0:31:27 Lydia: Yeah, and it's like you're faced with a choice. Do I give in and just be like, or do I lie to my kid and be like? No, there's other things that are also fun. There's a stick and hoop game. I don't know. I don't have an answer for Arlo. I seriously am like, yeah, but but sometimes you got to do different things, you know, just like you got to do differently. He's like, there's no other things. I hate it. And then he just lays down. I'm like, all right, we'll just lay down then.

0:31:40 Eli: A hoop and yeah yeah

0:31:55 Heath: But you're, you're a hockey guy. Like playing pickup roller hockey is super fun. Right?

0:31:55 Eli: Max asked we

0:32:00 Lydia: Oh, for me. Yeah. But he can't do any of that stuff yet. So it's like when you're five to you are a little limited.

0:32:07 Heath: Little bit young. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

0:32:08 Lydia: But like we do. But then I think what does happen is eventually we can get them out there sometimes and they'll start doing stuff and it's this really like heartbreaking thing where they're all having fun like the three of them will be having fun I'll be like we've done it we've cracked the code and then arlo come in and be like so I can play switch now right and I'm like oh was it all a lie like were you just pretending I've

0:32:22 Eli: Did it we made it that that is the worst yeah where you do like a super fun thing with your kid for the day and and you're like, nailed it parenting -wise. And you expect them to at bedtime pull up their covers and be like, I guess I'm really blessed, aren't I, Daddy?

0:32:39 Lydia: Learned a valuable lesson here yeah god

0:32:41 Eli: Yeah, and instead they're just like, you said no iPad, and you're like, cool, fucking cool. Yeah, Max asked me the other day, for the first time ever, why iPad had a limit, and what would happen if we didn't have a limit on iPad.

0:32:55 Heath: What lie did you come up with?

0:32:56 Lydia: It's

0:32:57 Eli: So unfortunately, God, I wish I had lied, I was like, well, you know, daddies really have an unhealthy relationship with screens and it's really messed with my mental health and I don't want to put you in that position and he was like he might as well have turned to me and been like I'm three did you want to take that again yeah

0:33:08 Lydia: Like that's your fucking problem Do you need me to give you the queue line again? Okay, so why do we not have the iPad?

0:33:19 Eli: You want to do it you want try thanks for making it about you dad uh really excited to get ahead of that in therapy he makes uh really appreciate you jumping out in front there

0:33:29 Heath: Okay. I have a question about like pushing it one step further. So this one, this article was about one parent taking over, you know, a few kids up to 15 kids. They go to the park, they do some free play that the parents off to the side, just checking for emergencies right as I understand it the laws in a lot of places have changed since my childhood for sure when I was a kid at least above a certain age so I'm imagining I'm 10 absolutely I was like going to a park and playing some games no parents were there it was just kids hanging out playing games in the park and it was totally fine as I I understand it that's actually like illegal and you can get like cps called on you if you do that that's a insane as far as I'm concerned but like that's bad like we need to stop that and get rid of those laws right it's

0:34:13 Eli: Sorry

0:34:05 Lydia: Not a cell phone in the world. Oh, yeah, for sure. It is. Well, we're not going to, Heath. It's not going to happen. Too many Eli's in the world. Oh, makes this comment all the time from the sio I did back in the 80s where scientists look at the relative dangers of leaving your kid in a shaded parking spot in a car in a closed locked you know with a window cracked or whatever locked car shaded parking structure versus taking them across a parking lot and street to go to somewhere and it's massively scientifically unquestionably more dangerous to take them across the street and and you know potentially get hit by a car or whatever else and but it doesn't matter it's scientific data that has no bearing on react on what humans will do what our society will do because eli sits there And he says, yeah, but no, that doesn't, isn't right. We must report any kid who's ever left in a car that's perfectly shady and fine.

0:35:13 Eli: Me hit you with this. Let me hit with this because here's my thing, right? Right?

0:35:15 Lydia: The woman shouldn't have spilled McDonald's coffee on her. Is that what you're going to say?

0:35:18 Eli: Okay. First of all, don't even get me started. First of all.

0:35:19 Heath: Here's my thing. Data's not real. That's what's emotionally true is what Eli thinks.

0:35:24 Eli: Well, okay. You have to choose. Either you're on the lady burned herself argument or you're on the numbers matter argument. Okay. You have to pick. You have to pick. No. What I'm saying is here's a problem. If we get out there, right? Because right now we have never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever leave your baby in a car or any reason, right? We get out there and we offer any kind of subtlety to that, it is a matter of zero seconds until some lady's like they said that if the walmart is air conditioned inside I can leave him on the sunroof with tinfoil wrapped around his chest and so and then when I point out that she shouldn't have done that everyone's going to be like wow that kid had third degree burns you're a mean person that kid at three degrees you can't you can't make exceptions for stupid in this scenario and that's my problem with the free range parenting thing is like do I have parents that I would trust in that situation with my kid absolutely is everyone included in a 15 kid child care group gonna be someone I trust with my kids absolutely not

0:36:31 Lydia: That's fair do

0:36:32 Heath: But what about zero parents at a certain age is what is what I'm getting at. Like, we need that, too, right?

0:36:37 Eli: Yeah

0:36:38 Lydia: We I don't know does he does eli think we need that

0:36:41 Eli: What's weird is I think there's a really important turn where like childhood independence is like super duper duper important I just think it's way less young than most people think yeah

0:36:52 Heath: OK. OK, in terms of number, two questions. I'm going to get to that one. Like, what would your number be for that? But we were talking about walking to school. Max is now 12. and 194 steps to school. Is that cool?

0:37:05 Eli: Tweens tweens I'm in yeah

0:37:07 Heath: Okay, 10? No 10, yes 12. Okay, 11 on the line.

0:37:10 Eli: No yes 11

0:37:07 Lydia: Really okay interesting no at 10 he has to be old enough to get his walking license

0:37:15 Eli: 11 on the dollar yeah 11 on the dot seems good for me yeah developmentally

0:37:20 Heath: Interesting.

0:37:20 Lydia: Okay interesting we have like a little neighborhood group of kids that you know they they range in age from you know like second grade through sixth grade and they all walk to to school together and it's the cutest thing in the world and so I've asked phoebe and arlo arlo wants to do it now but I'm not allowed to let him because I'm supposed to drop him off he probably also wouldn't go with the other kids yeah he'd be like I want to do this

0:37:41 Eli: Lydia's just trying to kick arlo out the door hey y'all kids come take it she's got cigarette in her teeth rollers in her hair for For some reason.

0:37:50 Lydia: Yeah that's that's the no it's more just yeah he's so independent but he also he's so independent that he would also be independent from the kid group you know like whereas phoebes he's got an interesting thing where she and I worry about this for her long term yes she she will latch on to an other authority figure eventually and that may be an older kid like she she will at first be like no I never I can't leave mom and dad I can'T leave mom and dad but if there's a big kid then all of a sudden she's like mom and dad who like I'm now this big kid is my parent like and it's a little disturbing like her friend I feel like she feels that way about her best friend already like that she is super comfortable if that friend is around she'll just go running off like she wanted to say bye to me half the time um and that friend by the way calls me lydia calls me by my first oh my god fucking a yeah separate topic

0:38:39 Eli: Can we take a second? Because me and my buddy Barack talk about this all the time. I get that it's better than whatever the fucking sir ma 'am shit we grew up with.

0:38:40 Lydia: Yes no it's not well okay it's better than that yeah I hate that I

0:38:50 Eli: But god damn it. Every time a kid calls me by my first name. I am psychotic with rage.

0:38:54 Lydia: Don't accept it I don'T accept it look I'm not look i'M as a parent i'M not present enough for any of the kids friends to know my name but if but if they did I would not let them call me it Mr.

0:39:06 Eli: Arlo, I think you have a ghost in your house.

0:39:09 Lydia: Sorry, would you really like turn to this, why is she calling you Lydia I don't understand it it's fucking weird she knows my name so she's like hey Lydia but you're

0:39:18 Eli: Lydia. Lydia, I'm totally with you because it's happened to me so many times. And every time in my head, I am like, I want to correct this child. I don't like being called by my first name by a child. But I don't. Because I hear the words forming on my tongue of, actually, it's Mr. Bosnick.

0:39:24 Lydia: Not going to I know no yeah

0:39:31 Eli: And then I shove my hand up my own ass.

0:39:32 Lydia: And then you kill yourself yeah yeah yeah we're all on the same page I think Eli and I are on the same page it's unacceptable but also Also, who's going to say anything about it? I don't know. I just, I guess I probably grew up calling my friends' parents their first name sometimes, like as I got a little older. Wow.

0:39:49 Eli: What?

0:39:50 Lydia: And you just tell me that now in our marriage. That's something I need to know day one.

0:39:55 Eli: Not for a million dollars.

0:39:56 Lydia: I would, I would either call them by their first names or if like I was really close with them, I'd call them like mom and dad. Like they would be, you know, more parents for me. I don't t know. You called other - I'd be like, I'll be like hey mom.

0:40:03 Heath: You'd call them mom and dad?

0:40:06 Eli: See. And now you made it sad, Lydia. Okay. We were all having a good time.

0:40:08 Lydia: My parents and I are very close.

0:40:10 Eli: I'm goof goof that's

0:40:10 Lydia: My parents and I are very close it would be like my best friends like parents and stuff I'd be like hey mom like and walk into their house and stuff why I

0:40:16 Eli: Very sad hey can you send this episode to your therapist I think they would really like it good

0:40:22 Lydia: It was full of love it was full of luck no but like Phoebe actually called out her friend she's like why are you calling her Lydia and yeah and I was like I didn't know what to say I just laughed well what did the friend say wasn't she like that's her name or something yeah she was like that'S her name and then she grabbed a bunch of presents for Phoebe so So I know we were hoping Phoebe would be the one to have the conversation. We should empower the kid. Hey, tell tell that little fucking asshole to call me Mr. Smith, will you? Will you tell that fucking kid?

0:40:30 Eli: I don't respect her mr smith mr smeth

0:40:52 Heath: It's also doctor and I will need a salute.

0:40:55 Eli: Reverend reverend maester

0:40:58 Lydia: That's exactly the thing. It has nothing to do with me. That's that's what's and Eli, I'm totally on the same page. That's why I probably will never say anything because our fucking boomer idiot parent generation was like, how dare you disrespect Mr. Bosnick or whatever, you know, how dare your disrespect Mr., but for me, it's like, well, I don't give a shit about me. It's like kid a shouldn't be doing that though. You know what I mean? It's this weird situation where I'm like, somebody tell that kid to not do that.

0:41:24 Eli: It's like when you see those videos of babies smoking you're like no they're not supposed to do that mr

0:41:28 Lydia: What? But I mean, like, like you guys, I mean I mean, Thomas, I know you hate calling like... Call me Mr. Smith! No, no, like your honor, right?

0:41:38 Heath: Call me dad.

0:41:38 Lydia: Like it's this idea of like these honorifics for what? Like what is the purpose really? Okay, but your honor is a bit of a... I guess all I'm saying is... You're going to an extreme from Mr. Smith to your honor. All I think is that kids have the capability of being polite and respectful without having to do a specific naming convention for who they're talking to. I'm not on a first name basis with Phoebe's little fucking friend.

0:41:34 Eli: Smith I don't

0:41:39 Heath: Wait I

0:42:04 Lydia: I don't know her.

0:42:03 Eli: Know you I don't know

0:42:05 Lydia: Yeah. I don't know. I feel like I know her . .

0:42:05 Heath: Still call my parents the

0:42:07 Lydia: .

0:42:07 Heath: Parents of my high school friends are still like mr riley and mrs like a hundred percent

0:42:10 Lydia: Hundred percent. Really? Till the day . . nd you die. Oh, no.

0:42:14 Eli: You absolutely fucking shot if I saw mr cohen right now I'm gonna be like hey what's up jerry apps I'll shoot myself in the mouth first is what I'll do right in the month when

0:42:21 Lydia: No, yeah. Never. My best friend's mom, Lisa . . Let me . . Okay, okay. Lydia, let me ask you this. What about your old teachers?

0:42:26 Eli: You're not calling her mommy

0:42:27 Lydia: Yeah. What about my teachers? What about . . ? Do you see an old teacher from fifth grade? Uh no

0:42:33 Heath: My teachers I call mommy and daddy

0:42:34 Eli: But it's a love thing it's with love wait

0:42:36 Lydia: My teachers yeah I would say my teachers are all mr and mrs with the exception of the one that had a relationship with someone oh yeah that I've like gotten to know post yeah yeah that person's just fuck whole

0:42:49 Eli: Hey hey fucking fucking what you know what we'll cover it on another episode all right gentlemen and lady before we go why do foot fetishists enjoy losing because they crave the taste of defeat all

0:42:52 Heath: It's not the bad version eli yeah boo

0:42:58 Lydia: Of defeat yeah that's good

0:43:11 Heath: Puns are stupid this

0:43:16 Lydia: Oh all right

0:43:22 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILF, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC. Copyright 2022. All rights reserved.

0:44:01 Lydia: It going red going lydia can't even see the screen that records and she's saying that do

0:44:02 Eli: Red but so helpful reddest

0:44:09 Heath: I'm also red joined

0:44:11 Lydia: I have have to do with my tombo or do oh elad you want to hello and welcome to dear old dad I don't what does he say I've done we've done 200 welcome to your old dads yeah welcome to deer old not this is for this is to be edited out yeah but

0:44:19 Heath: As always by thomas smith and eli bosnick hello yeah

0:44:20 Eli: Welcome teaser oh deleted how me mr botnik where are the blueberries and

0:44:34 Lydia: Else is anything. And