Trump Takes MAGA Senators on Field Trip, Allowing Dems To Confirm More Judges

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:00 Clip: You must never, ever give up or give in. You must keep the faith and keep your eyes on the prize. That is your calling. That is you mission. That is moral obligation. That is mandate. Get out there and do it. Get in the way. Change happens because people care. The people have the power to make this life free and beautiful. To make this live a wonderful adventure.

0:00:38 Clip: I still believe with all my heart, America can be a place where no child is left hungry, no community is left behind, and no one gets told they don't belong. Country is always worth it.

0:00:57 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Opening Arguments. This is episode 1090. I'm Thomas Smith. That over there is real life attorney Matt Cameron. How you doing, Matt?

0:01:06 Matt: I'm feeling great I'm having a fantastic day and I've got nothing but good news for you today

0:01:10 Thomas: Would seem impossible, but yes, we have a good news episode. We've had to go deep into the mines to delve. We found a balrog and we also found good news. It was not easy to do.

0:01:19 Matt: It's out there if you want to find it it is out there there's some good stuff happening that's

0:01:25 Thomas: But everyone has seen the headline, I'm sure, that Matt Gaetz has withdrawn from Attorney General consideration. Is good news, that is very good news

0:01:31 Matt: That's great news and I did get to keep the screenshot that I took already of his ex -account which he listed his bio as attorney general nominee so we'll have that forever

0:01:43 Thomas: What a doofus. I'm sorry. Dying to talk about it, but we'll wait till after the break because, you know, we want to present all the good news in once. We got to make sure we make the best of our good news.

0:01:52 Matt: Is a blitz of good news. I'm going to force feed you good news until you can't take it anymore, Thomas. We have a footnote too.

0:01:57 Thomas: Wow. Jeez. Are we even allowed to air such a product? No, I can't wait. Wait. We're going to take a break and get to all the good news. Before we do, please pledge at patreon.com slash support the show, support us delving for good news, it takes, it's like Bitcoin mining these days, it takes we had several, you know, computers chained together, just mining for that good news but we found it. We can only do so because of the support of amazing patrons at patreon.com slash law and we've got a lot awful movies scheduled again, can't wait to do that it'll be another fun bonus for this month and that's all available at patreon.com slash law so let's take our break and then we'll get to the good news all right where where I'm just handful good news everywhere where do we start sure

0:02:41 Matt: Let's talk about Matt Gaetz for a second, just because that was Monday's show and it was looking pretty bad. But I mean, we already knew that there was no way he was getting through the Senate if they held a vote. And he went on tour like you do before you're going to be nominated and tried to get some goodwill. Looks like he couldn't get any. And I'm sure you saw that the The House Ethics Committee refused to release the report. Mike Johnson is very clear that it will not be coming out.

0:03:02 Thomas: That seems weird, why would it not come out? Is there some reason that it wouldn't come out like I can't even I know I know facts don't seem to matter anymore, except a little bit. I just why? Any person within the sound of my voice, if you exist, maybe there's one who voted for Trump and thinks that the Democrats are the groomers or whatever. Like, why? Why would Republicans not release a report? Why do they block it? It's not just they're like, oh, we're not really they're blocking the effort to release lease it. And involving a major figure and underage girls. Block it? That seems weird.

0:03:35 Matt: But it's probably just too boring. You know, like who wants to read all that? It's probably a little bit boring. It's just probably just nothing. Say that the Senate Democrats might have hastened this along because yesterday they put out a letter to FBI Director Christopher Wray asking for a complete copy of the FBI investigation. So one way or another, I think a lot of this information was going to come out and maybe it still will. Well. There has to be somebody out there that has access to this report who can leak it,

0:03:58 Thomas: Well, my question. So, yes, he resigned from the House, but I wanted to check with you because the thinking online is he resigned from the 118th Congress, but not the 119th. I forget if we've talked about that before and so he could still just go back into the house for the next session is mean, I guess it makes sense because Imagine you resign. Let's say there's like a scandal. You resign from the house, but then you're like, oh, I've been proved innocent or something. And then you run again the next session. There's no reason why you couldn't win election. So I don't see why it would be any different than that, I Guess. It's just the timing of when he he resigned.

0:04:33 Matt: Resignation letter, he said he did not intend to take the oath of office in the new Congress. I don't think that's really binding. Yeah, he was really committing. Enough, if he thought he was going to get this job, but

0:04:42 Thomas: Or it might. OK, so here's my point. He comes back, then all of a sudden the ethics report stuff is like back on. Right. There's no reason that that would. So maybe the plan all along was he's getting out of the House either way because of this ethics scandal and because, let's face it, a lot of Republicans have left because it just sucks to be in like you do anything valuable like like a lot, you know, a lot of Republicans have left. Now he's one of them, obviously more MAGA of MAGA. So maybe he enjoyed just going on TV and talking trash all day long but or, either way, it sounds like maybe the he could technically get sworn back in with the next Congress, but he might not have wanted to.

0:05:16 Matt: Mean, I as we discussed last time, they have jurisdiction as long as he's a member of Congress and they could release that report anytime. I think they would have if he were still in Congress. So yeah, no, he's not legally bound to stick with his resignation as I understand it. He certainly could be sworn in again, but it's just that he said he wasn't going to, so so uncertain.

0:05:32 Thomas: And so I guess the question is, was that language of he doesn't intend to be sworn in? Was that because he thought he was gunna be attorney general or was that for some other reasons? We'll just wait and see. I don't, it sounds like There's no necessarily legal reason he can't. It'll just be his personal decision. But I just have to say, a few people on team four-dimensional chess. This was never a serious pick that are trying to do a victory lap right now or something. And they just, I don't think, are reading the content of the articles that are being shared on this because in the articles, it talks about how Trump was 100 % serious about this pick and was trying to make it happen. But what happened was it turns out there are still enough Republican senators who were like, no, I'm just not doing that. I'm not going to go with that nomination. And it only took like, again, what's the margin in the Senate now? I guess we're still waiting on one election, but only take like three or four to totally tank his nomination. I was perhaps too pessimistic that those three or four wouldn't exist anymore. I think I was wrong to be that pessimistic. I think there's still still that tiny handful of Republican senators who are not threatened enough by Trump to just go along with whatever he wants, which is good news. This is a good news show. That is good news.

0:06:45 Matt: And also, I mean, it helps that Trump probably couldn't have picked a less popular member of Congress. This is somebody everybody hates. So it made it pretty easy for them, I Think. It does open an interesting question because you remember last month, we talked about the list that was leaked of potential nominees and the second on that list. So the first on the list for attorney general was Jay Clayton at the time. And the second on that list was one Eileen Cannon. It is her chance to shine. Could still be her chance. It could still still be put in. She'd have to resign, but is it not impossible. And I was just wondering, yeah, get her out.

0:07:15 Thomas: Let's do the same thing with her. Can Trump just go through every awful person, nominate them, they resign from the thing they're currently doing, and then that would be great.

0:07:24 Matt: That's Because Jay Clayton has been nominated for SDNY, as we talked about, and he was a top pick for AG. Eileen cannon was second. Again, that was just a list that was released, leaked last month. It doesn't mean anything, but it could mean something. And certainly, I was wondering, you know, is it worse to have the totally unqualified creepy congressman or the barely qualified corrupt judge? It's a real toss -up. I don't know.

0:07:46 Matt: I mean, because it would be so bad if Eileen Cannon actually got that job because she dismissed a federal criminal case against the current president. I just have to say that. It'd be so bad. Just historically awful.

0:07:58 Thomas: Be hard to pick which is she less qualified for, though, being AG or being the judge that she currently is.

0:08:03 Matt: Ag for sure because she is at least at this point the best judge in fort pierce florida that's her job and only obviously uh so that is uh I unqualified good news that matt gaetz will not be the attorney general of the united states that was a worst case sure

0:08:11 Thomas: But yeah, absolutely. It good news. And it is good news that at least it means Trump, we're not in the territory of Trump can do literally whatever he wants with zero checks on it. I know I'm not trying to make this out like this is we're in great shape, but the of this show for the next however long is we want to give a realistic picture of what's happening. And that includes when something not as bad has happened. And I just hope people aren't taking that because it's really easy to be a a doomer. It takes no expertise to come on and be a doemer and just say the worst thing is going to happen every time. That's not, that's not helpful. I could, you could do that on your own. You don't need to listen to anybody to just have the opinion that the very worst thing has always going to happen. We're trying to give you a more accurate picture than that. And I think I'll say, I, it's hard to know. I could always do the Nate Silver thing of, well, I put the odds that he would be AG at 70%. If you remember, it is actually literally what Nate Silver did. I can always say, well the 30% happened, but I actually think I'm going to say I was wrong. I was pessimistic in terms of how much a few Republican senators would be willing to go against Trump. This is good news. So I think that means more willing to go again. And then I thought, I

0:08:43 Matt: That's fine for now yeah and odds are also based on if he actually got got through to a hearing. So he quit and

0:09:26 Thomas: Think my odds were just like, will it happen? Like, will we see him be? And I just was very worried. So, I also was pairing together the idea that there could be recess nomination. So yeah, I think I can go ahead and say that I put the ads a little too high in retrospect. But like, I just want to emphasize this wasn't a 4d chess move that by all reporting, this was what Trump wanted. Trump wanted this to happen. And senators, Republican senators, enough of them said there's zero effing way that I'm going to vote yes for this guy. And that is what happened. It wasn't 4d chest move. It It wasn't always intended that he would drop out. None of that is true.

0:09:29 Matt: That's true. He's trying to help you out there. Sure, of course.

0:10:00 Matt: Trump just really liked him quite a lot. They have a lot in common. Do you expect?

0:10:02 Thomas: They really do. Well, we just, Lydia and I recently watched a documentary, The Swamp on HBO, which we might, we might grab some clips up for TikTok or something. Cause there's some, there's Some really interesting stuff now. It's like, it's an interesting slice of time because it's from four years ago, but it gave me more of a picture of who this guy is. And he's like hard to say, like, he's more of a three -dimensional character. Character he is and he isn't he think does he's a a trump kiss ass and trump likes that and he responded well to it all

0:10:29 Matt: I will tell you, having listened to his book, which we'll be talking about soon, we'll have a lot to talk about here because, yeah, no, he is quite a character, but we should move on to some more good news. Is a very quick one since we're blissing through. I know if you saw this, but today, as of today, Donald Trump did not get a majority of the popular vote. Think that's fantastic news.

0:10:45 Thomas: Yep yep while I was projecting that uh along I will tell yep yep it is official um take a minor victory lap on that, all I did was use basic math, but like, again, we need to take more time either thinking this through yourself, doing the math yourself, or listening to people who do, because 100% of the internet talked about the voting after the few days after the election, as though those were the final results. And it is beyond belief that anyone who knows what they're talking about wouldn't already know how California works and how the vote was going to work. And from you can go back into the, into record. I had projected based on, you know, it's still based on an estimate, but based on just the estimates of the remaining vote that Trump would drop below 50%. I made that claim a while ago and here he is.

0:10:48 Matt: Official. 49.78 as of today. You go. And that's more math than I can or want to do. So good work. You know, don't let anybody tell you that Donald Trump has a mandate because they were really trying to write on that. It's not going to happen. It's not a mandate.

0:11:35 Thomas: Important to know.

0:11:36 Matt: Yeah, that'S it's just a quick and easy one. I also wanted to follow up on a story from OA1035, breaking news this morning as to the warrant from the International Criminal Court that has gone out.

0:11:45 Thomas: I saw this as well, man. What a day.

0:11:46 Matt: Fantastic news. Yes, Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Yoav Galant have both been charged with a number of war crimes. I'll just run down what is included here. We discussed, this applies to any signatory to the Rome Statute for the International Clinical Court. That's 124 four countries will have to arrest them if they're in their jurisdiction. That does not include the United States, of course. We've never signed on to that.

0:12:07 Thomas: Maybe we should sign. Oh, why am I even saying that? Hey, that's something we could have pressured a Kamala Harris presidency to do. And who knows if it would work, but Hey, we could have at least had someone to pressure. No, we don't.

0:12:09 Matt: We should, but we won't. Included, not surprisingly, deprivation of humanitarian assistance, denying food and water, and a number of other human rights violations.

0:12:25 Thomas: Boy, I feel like there's a lot more than that, but okay.

0:12:28 Matt: That's a good start. They also charged Ibrahim al-Masri from Hamas as well, who was also in the running when they put that in back in March, when we talked about it. So it is official. It seemed like that was going to happen, but it has actually happened. And that is good news for justice.

0:12:40 Thomas: Is good news. I also just saw a headline that Justin Trudeau said they would arrest Netanyahu if he came to Canada, which is like, awesome. Yeah, imagine the world we could live in if everybody, including the United States, signed onto that. Mean, that could make a difference. At the very least, the war criminal would not be able to take retirement, take lovely travels around world. The world.

0:13:04 Matt: To quickly feature some good news out of the New York Trump case. I didn't really want to talk about Trump that much today, but just very quickly, Alvin Bragg is not lying down on this case. He's put in a letter on November 19th opposing the defendant's motion to dismiss because of course there was the immunity motion to discuss, but now Trump came back and wrote to the court and to the DA and said, well, I'm president now. So what are we doing? Basically, it's not even on immunity. He's just saying, I can't be sentenced. And Bragg made the very good point that these are post -trial criminal proceedings. We're in the sentencing phase here. You can't just dismiss the case. That's not how it works. He'd been convicted by a jury. And there was some thought that maybe Bragg would just lie down or that this case would go away somehow. But Bragg is asking for a briefing schedule. He is asking Merchan to continue this case and keep it going. And appreciate it. And this is sort of the way they've always written these letters. But the first sentence here, as a result of the election held on November 5th, 2024, defendant's inauguration as president will occur. I just love defendant's inaugural. It's just, just don't forget, he's still a

0:14:04 Matt: Criminal defendant. That's, that

0:14:04 Thomas: Doesn't often get common language in a sentencing document, in a brief, yeah,

0:14:07 Matt: Is a new one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's not opposing the stay of further proceedings, but he's saying this is not something we can just get rid of because he's going to be inaugurated as president. He was also trying to make some noise about the fact that you might remember he was trying to have the case removed to the Second Circuit Federal Court on spurious grounds, like nothing going on there. He's just trying to find any excuse he can to get it into federal court. And he's saying that's another reason too. That's just not happening. I mean, he was actually trying to argue in this letter that he has legal immunity from all criminal prosecution based on his current status as president -elect. He's trying to stretch it that far. He has already been convicted. This is not how it works. You just don't get out of it. So just a nice reminder that justice still exists. The rule of law still exists. And I think that's important. Well, speaking

0:14:43 Thomas: Well, yeah let's not get crazy. For now, this is still, yeah efforts are being made, I do appreciate that.

0:14:56 Matt: Of efforts on the rule of the law, we've got great news on Joe Biden's judicial nominees. They are chugging through. First of all, I just want to mention before we get to Biden's judicial nominees, generally speaking, the election was actually very good for judges on our side of things all around. We had good wins in places like Arkansas and Montana and North Carolina that weren't so good for the presidency. I think as of today or yesterday, Alison Riggs in North Carolina, a Supreme Court judge, looks like she won by about 600 votes.

0:15:21 Matt: It's going to trigger a recount, but yeah, good news there. And it seems like abortion was really a driving factor that people wanted to keep reasonable judges that would protect their rights, yeah, speaking of reasonable judges, we've got few nominees. Now, I just will remind everybody that Donald Trump got 19 nominees through the Senate in his lame duck session. So just let's start there. Point out one of those 19 nominees was, in fact, the best and only federal judge in Fort Pierce, Florida, Eileen Cannon. She made it through that in the lame duck. So we got stuck with her there.

0:15:21 Thomas: I saw that. Plus a Goes Goes to show how important it is.

0:15:51 Matt: Yeah, it really, really is. There was some thought that this was going to be tense on these things because you got your usual kind of Collins -Markowski mansion wobbling on trying to get these things through. But Republicans decided to make it a lot easier by just not showing up to a lot of these votes.

0:16:05 Thomas: I saw this headline and I was like, I wanted to check. Okay. Oh, in fact, I Saw a Headline Along the topic of good news, Matt, I got to ask. The headline was Trump's visit to Elon Musk's rocket launch, on he took like two Republican senators may get more of these nominees through than he might have otherwise. Now, this is one of those things where I almost didn't want to fact check it because it sounded too delightful. But, you know, it's OA. Let's fact check. Is that real?

0:16:07 Matt: So good. It's true. Is correct. And one of those was Ted Cruz, just not watching the shop, decided to go watch Elon Musk shoot off, in fact, the rocket launch. And again, I am a big space nerd and I want all of these things to work, even Elon Musk's. I want space to continue and I wanted to go forward. But I will say, the infinite

0:16:37 Thomas: Rocket yay well it should continue don't worry there's space isn't going anywhere man hey good news show space is still there yeah

0:16:53 Matt: Vastness of space does exist. Exist. But the point is, I want to go to space. I want to go there myself by the... Yeah, before I die, don't you?

0:16:58 Thomas: You want to go to space holy shit no oh

0:17:03 Matt: I totally think so.

0:17:04 Thomas: I mean I have I have kids so I just for just stay with my kids I'm good the

0:17:08 Matt: Maybe an afternoon. I don'T want to GO TO MARS, necessarily, but just a little pop -up and back, you know?

0:17:10 Thomas: After okay if you're guaranteed that it's 100 safe and you're coming back then sure but I I just I'm sorry I'm space is rough it's not it's meant for us you know they don't talk about it enough not meant for humans yeah

0:17:21 Matt: It's pretty scary. One of your scarier places, yeah. But I want to point out that this actually did not entirely succeed this launch. So on top of that, they had to watch it crash into the ocean when it was supposed to have come back in the landing pad. So yeah, were four Senate Republicans that went out to watch that launch, and they got a bunch of judges through. And Trump was furious. He you took them, right? Did nobody do the math on this to figure this out?

0:17:29 Thomas: Even better. Yeah. But you did it, bud. You didn't. It's like if my kids asked me to let them do something like, all right, and then that goes wrong. I'm like, you assholes. No, that's kind of on me.

0:17:53 Matt: I mean, literally, he truthed, the Democrats are trying to stack the courts, capital C, with radical left judges on their way out the door. Republican senators need to show up and hold the line. It's very funny when you invited them to not show up.

0:18:07 Thomas: Might as well have a selfie with Ted Cruz like under that tweet. Like, yeah. You know, we didn't we haven't put it out yet. It'll be out very soon, but we had done that Nazi rally, the Nazi Trump rally in New York. And there's a moment at the end of that when Trump's speech in that, that is so funny because I'm pretty sure Trump, Trump tells a story of where he like saw the rocket launch from his, I don't know, window or something. It was like, is that Elon? Is dat you? And like called him. And then the way he talks about it is like, I'm pretty sure he thinks Elon is in the rocket. Like, think he might think that it's, it's amazing. So anyway, that'll be on where there's woke at some point. Yeah. It's it, the way He talks about, it is very, it could just be his awkward language, but it very much sounds like he thinks Ilan caught the rocket like himself with with the little member, the, catchy the thing. That one, it was that one. Anyway, very funny.

0:18:57 Matt: I think they thought, from what I understand, Kamala Harris is taking a well -deserved break in Hawaii, as she certainly should.

0:19:02 Thomas: Do whatever.

0:19:02 Matt: Dems have been doing what they're doing, and Joe Manchin is Joe Manchen, so I think maybe they thought it was going to be safe, but didn't quite do the math on that one. I

0:19:09 Thomas: Can Kamala take a vacation when she's in charge of the border, the everything? We learned during all the debates that she's actually in charge the entire nation. How does she do it?

0:19:15 Matt: That's right. The Biden -Harris administration. Harris -Biden administration by the time they were done.

0:19:21 Thomas: The Harris Harris administration.

0:19:22 Matt: Yeah, pretty much. Will say that Republicans have been doing everything they can to stretch this out. First thing, have you ever actually watched a roll call vote? I certainly have on C -SPAN, and it is painful to watch. It's just that, you know, they could easily just do the thing where they press the button and get the whole cloture vote where they close the things and send it on to the Senate. But Republicans are forcing roll call every time.

0:19:41 Thomas: They insist on the right. Yeah. Least it's

0:19:44 Matt: So it's taking hours.

0:19:44 Thomas: The Senate, not the House.

0:19:45 Matt: Yeah, that's so many more. But it still takes hours to go through every single nominee, every single roll call, vote, making sure that everybody's on the floor, everybody's voting. I'm not going to say that being a senator is necessarily a hard job, but that sounds painful, just sitting through all those things. Will say also notably that the Republicans did finally make a deal, even though didn't really need to do this, but they made a deal to allow the district court nominees to go through and to stop playing games with the roll call votes at the cost of four appellate nominees, which were already kind of troubled. Nominees are going to have some trouble. So that was John Thune's doing the new majority leader. But again, the good news is that we're going to get, we've already got 220 Biden judges in his entire term. Five more are being sent on as of time we're recording. There's going to be several more before we're done. Had a total of 234, and I think we've got a few more left to go, but we're still looking pretty good. I do have to appreciate that.

0:20:15 Thomas: Interesting. Is good. That's very good. Very important. More than we possibly the first time around. Although I think I think O .A. was shouting about that. But yeah, that's good. Very good news wow

0:20:41 Matt: I wanted to, in all of this, identify a hero, because I think it's good in these times to find our legal heroes. District Court Judge Algernon Marbley, the first Black federal judge in Ohio. He was appointed by Bill Clinton in November of 1997. He is 70 years old, and he has earned the right to retire. This man has been on the bench for a long time. But he decided, as of after the election, that he was not going to retire, because he was going to be replaced by Republicans. Republicans.

0:21:05 Thomas: Because there's not enough time to do that like now oh

0:21:07 Matt: Actually, I want to talk about how this works. It's kind of interesting. He had announced in October last year that he was going to be going into senior status, which is a semi -retirement. So basically, you get to maintain like a 25 % caseload, but it opens up a full -time vacancy by doing that because you're not a full time judge anymore. So he was counting on Biden being able to replace him. But unfortunately, due to the very stupid blue slip Senate rules, which are worth another talk at some time about how the home state senators can block these things. Like this shit shouldn't exist. This whole thing is a super racist history because it was used secretly before. Just a whole other thing. But now it's public at least. But yeah, no, it's been around a while.

0:21:43 Thomas: So it dates back that long I wasn't sure if this was some new way that like screwed us so yeah this is the rule just to explain it so the home state senators have to like sign off on the nominees for the federal spots in that state is that how it works what

0:21:58 Matt: And they have the right to hold it up indefinitely by not returning their blue slip. And so Joe Biden actually, yeah, right. In the early 90s, Joe Biden in the Senate formalized the rules a little, because the whole thing was very informal. It's been refined several times since then. But the fact is that in Ohio was represented by Democrat Sherrod Brown and one James David Vance. And Vance was not going to let any of Biden's nominees through. Biden didn't actually to put anybody into this seat. But once Judge Marbley saw where things were going with the election, he formally announced that he was not going into semi-retirement. He would return, and he remained in active status, which again, at the age of 70, when you've been on the bench since 1997, that is commendable. And he really deserves

0:22:02 Thomas: A what a great system. Yeah

0:22:34 Matt: To not be on the bench.

0:22:35 Thomas: Yeah let's get smart and this is one Not like rgb situation because there's just no there's no downside really it's like sure maybe if something happens health -wise yeah okay they they get to replace him, but they would have anyway. So, or maybe he holds out long enough, you know, to be replaced by a Democrat someday. So well done. I hero. Sorry, you have to keep doing judge stuff.

0:22:55 Matt: He seems to enjoy it, though. Let's hear from him real quick before we move on. I've

0:22:58 Clip: That my legacy will be that to all of the litigants who appeared before me that I was fair and I worked tirelessly, tirelessly if not relentlessly to do justice in their case. And even if they didn't have an ultimate resolution of their case, that they at least understood the legal rationale for not taking the actions that I did.

0:23:29 Matt: That's Judge Algernon Marbley. For your service. Self -owns are very much a theme of today's show. I wanted to talk about another amazing Republican self own in Wyoming. This was by request of Michael Rops's patron who asked us to cover this one. I'd miss this. A great story. It'S what we're talking about. About. Also, actually, I should give credit where it is due to a professional grade in -car audio guy who actually requested that we just cover good news today. And I thought, what a great idea. How hard can that be?

0:23:59 Thomas: Hard, but yeah.

0:24:00 Matt: No, it isn't. Life's right, Michael Rops. I want to address this Wyoming case. This is Judge Melissa Owens. She's a district court judge and state district court Judge in Wyoming. This is an abortion ban and it's pretty strict. It's a pretty typical kind of thing like this, but she's looking at two different laws in Wyoming. One of them is State Statute 366 -120, which is a flat ban on performing abortions in Wyoming, it states that the unborn baby is a member of the human race and therefore entitled to inalienable rights. Abortion, as defined in this act, is not health care. Instead of being health care, abortion is the intentional termination of the life of an unborn baby. So it's pretty typical right -wing abortion language. You get $20,000 fines, prison up to five years, strict definitions, the usual exceptions, what you'd expect. So all pretty normal. But also, in the same decision, she's looking at a medication abortion ban. That's under Wyoming state statute 35.6.138, which is pretty typical prohibition of prescription or using any medications for the purpose of performing abortions. So she's looking at both of these things in light of Wyoming's constitution, which is normal. We've been seeing that all over the country that we've had judges looking to see. For example, we talked about in Florida, about the weird originalism that was done there to find that the right to privacy does not include, for some reason, right to healthcare in Florida. Here's what happened. In

0:25:19 Matt: 38 to article one of the Wyoming Constitution, and it is entitled Right of Healthcare Access. Says each competent adult shall have the right to make his or her own healthcare decisions. And it has several other sections, but the purpose of this, and in fact, she goes into it in the decision about why they did this. Purpose of it was in response to Obamacare, to the Affordable Care Act, because of all the hysteria about death panels and rationing, right?

0:25:30 Thomas: Sounds, yeah.

0:25:46 Matt: So it's just along the lines of So what we've been talking about with all the ballot amendment questions that aren't really based on anything, right? So this hysteria over this. Yep. So this is an amazing cell phone.

0:25:42 Thomas: Yeah! Yes uh so good oh please tell me this is this oh

0:25:56 Matt: Yep. Plaintiffs brought 12 different constitutional challenges ranging from freedom of religion to equal protection, all the things you'd expect in an abortion challenge. But she just came out and said, I don't have to go any further. I can look at Section 38, this thing the voters passed. This is an enshrined constitutional right. And she underlined in the decision, abortion services are a pregnant woman's decision, because they were trying to argue that the best they could do here, and I think it was the only argument they could make, was that this didn't apply because when you are having an abortion, you're making a decision on behalf of another human. And actually said there's nothing in here that suggests that you can't make decisions on behalf of another person, but she wasn't even finding it's a person. That there's Nothing that prohibits you from making a decision that somehow affects someone else in this that is just a flat, straight up constitutional right, which means strict scrutiny applies.

0:26:42 Thomas: That is the best yeah

0:26:45 Matt: So good. So this is going to be appealed, obviously, but strict scrutiny requires that the government show that it's not presumptively unconstitutional, that there is some kind of compelling state interest.

0:26:53 Thomas: Strict scrutiny is very difficult to

0:26:56 Matt: Very harsh. Yep, yep. And it's very much going to work out well here, I think, because this is a solid decision. It's very well written, and we'll link to it. It's also not very difficult to get to when you have a constitutional amendment that is entitled right of healthcare access.

0:26:56 Thomas: Get past yeah yeah

0:27:11 Matt: They say in the law that it's not healthcare, but come on, of course it's healthcare. How could it not be healthcare? That's stupid. Stupid uh

0:27:10 Thomas: Yeah duh yeah just to get this all straight, that means that they tried to ban abortion but this idiotic constitutional amendment which I can't imagine was that easy to, you know, was that like a ballot thingy where they all yeah yeah, in wyoming they all got on their horses rode over to the polling station and they said we don't want no obamacare touching our health care decisions and they it's because they're worried about the death panels. And so they passed something that essentially guarantees now the right to abortion. And I mean, like you said, I'm sure it'll be appealed, but like could almost imagine that amendment having been written from the mindset of like, let's try to protect abortion. You know, like it would be, if you'd told me, well, you know, a group of childless cat ladies got together and were like, Let's write an amendment that protects abortion. And it had the same wording of like we will be able to make their own health care choices I would believe you. And so it's funny that, sense. Like, It makes sense that, pretty clear language, Matt, I'm no lawyer, but pretty clear language would now be protecting abortion against this attack, which is fantastic.

0:27:30 Matt: It's a better referendum yeah to point that it was a summary judgment like straight up, this is not even a close to trial and yeah, uh, and it's permanent injunction, you know, they can appeal they can see what they can do but uh, it is unqualified good news as far as I'm concerned and uh okay just letting that That siren pass. It's just city of Austin's on fire or something.

0:28:42 Thomas: Unbelievable. Yeah. What is there? Zombie apocalypse? Would, it would be, if it were me, it Would Be the Shaun of the Dead. I would be podcasting through the zombie apocalypse, not knowing that it was happening. It would take me a long time, you know, work

0:28:59 Matt: Just take off your headphones and everybody's gone. Well, as you can hear, I'm around way too many people right now. But that does underscore a point that, so again, I've been having a great time on Blue Sky. Guy. And remember, of course, we're now in blue sky to open arcs.

0:29:02 Thomas: From home. Yeah, but I'm not around anyone, Matt. So I take an extra. Yep.

0:29:18 Matt: And one point that I keep seeing people making over and over again is that Donald Trump is just going to do whatever he wants and court orders don't matter. But I'm going to tell you, court orders do matter and they will continue to matter. And if we pretend they don't, if we concede that they don'T, then they really won't. So let's just continue to believe that there's a rule of law until there isn't.

0:29:35 Thomas: But especially looking at what happened with Matt Gaetz. Isn't true that everything, nothing matters. We can't do any, that's not true. It's not helpful. Want to be unrealistic, that's what I hope we can do is you, you still, even if you think he could just do whatever he wants, you Still got to fight every step of the way. You can't just give up ahead of time. Then you're part of it.

0:29:50 Matt: You got it. Absolutely. I don't do well in like crowds of more more than 15. I don't own a gun. I don't work out, but I can write briefs. That's what I can do right now. So that's what I'm going to do.

0:30:00 Thomas: And, and there, there is still a system and it does do things. It's oh

0:30:07 Matt: We still got good people like Agatha Marbley and Melissa Owens on the bench. So let's keep supporting them. Have got a fun footnote today know we haven't had footnotes for a couple weeks. I've missed them too. This is something that really went under the radar and I have to thank Kevin Underhill of lowering the bar for this story. This is a fantastic story. It is yet another RFK Jr. animal scandal that has gone unnoticed. And it is, this man cannot be trusted with animals. He can't even keep the worm in his brain alive. I mean,

0:30:29 Thomas: My god what is with this guy I would be surprised at this point if he ran it over accidentally what

0:30:43 Matt: Honestly, the first time I heard that story about him decapitating a whale and strapping its head to the car so that the juices were going down into his children, it's so gross. Who does that? Even in Massachusetts, we don't decapitate whales. And then, of course, dumping a dead bear in Central Park, who could forget, to the point that the New York Times covered it and was like, who dumped this dead bear in central park? And we didn't find out for another 10 years that it was RFK Jr.

0:30:49 Thomas: The fuck gross this guy incredible yeah that and meanwhile rfk was in the dead bear suit like we're all trying to figure out who did this the whole time uh

0:31:14 Matt: Well, this is an amazing conflagration of bird law and election law. And I am going to be springing a very new T3BE on you. It is not a bar exam question. Question. It is a bird exam question. Thomas is going to take the bird exam.

0:31:29 Thomas: Thomas takes the bird exam here we

0:31:30 Matt: We'll get there. First, I have to tell you what happened. So, RFK Jr., this is actually pretty important. I did not know this, but in New York State, he was actually disqualified, and a judge found that he committed fraud by saying that he lived in New York State, in a house in Katona, New York, in which it came out in this very long hearing that he had slept there maybe once. It must be be nice to have a house like that.

0:31:30 Thomas: Go now for what why did this matter yeah

0:31:51 Matt: Getting on the ballot as an independent in New York, he had listed his address. He said he was a New York resident. It didn't really matter. He didn't have to do that.

0:31:58 Thomas: I was gonna say wait for president because you don't obviously you don'T live in all the states that you run for president

0:32:03 Matt: But for whatever reason, when the committee put him on the petitions, they put that he was New York president and listed this address in Katona, New York. And one of the documents that he submitted to prove that he is a New New York resident was his New York falconry license, like you do. And it turns out RFK, like, you know, he's a regular guy. He just enjoys a little falconery on the weekends, real everyman kind of sport, you Know, and he is one of the 166 people who are licensed falconers in New York state.

0:32:16 Thomas: Falconry capital of the world yeah he is or was this bullshit? Oh okay

0:32:36 Matt: Really is. He is truly, and not only is he an enthusiastic falconer, Like since the age of 14, he actually helped to write the exam book, which we'll read from in a moment, for the New York falcon exam.

0:32:45 Thomas: He wrote the book on falconry.

0:32:48 Matt: And it's not easy to get a falconry license in New York state. It requires an 80 % to pass. And you have to pay a $40 fee every five years and file an annual falconery report. And I will just note that the falcon report requires you to report, first of all, how many raptors are in your possession. That's always good to know.

0:33:05 Thomas: Raptors?

0:33:06 Matt: Yeah. Raptors, not Velociraptors, just regular raptors.

0:33:07 Thomas: Sorry, what? Okay. What is a regular one? Is it like a big...

0:33:12 Matt: You know, like a bird of prey.

0:33:14 Thomas: Really? I didn't know this.

0:33:15 Matt: Raptors, yeah. Of course, the Velocireptors are related to birds like this, but raptors acquired during the calendar year. And the most concerning entry on this forum is raptors escaped or lost during the calender year.

0:33:27 Thomas: Jurassic Park situations caused...

0:33:30 Matt: Yeah. So part of the scandal is that it turns out that he might not have filed his annual Falcon reports for the last few years because they'd

0:33:38 Thomas: Amateur. Come on. You always file your annual falcon reports.

0:33:42 Matt: Be careful.

0:33:43 Thomas: Knows that.

0:33:43 Matt: Kevin Underhill, again, did amazing work. And lowering the bar is a funny site. I haven't looked at it in a long time, but the story just popped up. And he did some FOIAs. He did some actual journalism on this. And New York State was unable to provide Falcon reports from the last few years. But the reason that this actually matters is because he listed the same address on his falconry report and it turns out that to ECL section 3-0312Q false statements made on this application are punishable in accordance to section 210.45 of the New York State penal law. So RFK Jr. in fact committed a crime by lying about his Falcon license application and his Falcon report. Claimed to be a state resident and lied about his address. So that is not maybe the biggest scandal associated with Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

0:34:17 Thomas: By falcon attack

0:34:32 Matt: Maybe not the worst thing about him.

0:34:30 Thomas: No did he also behead several falcons or just the paperwork thing oh

0:34:36 Matt: Yeah, I mean, if he'd filed, maybe that's why he didn't file those reports from the last few years, because he's He's got some escaped or lost or bedded.

0:34:41 Thomas: He's got some falcon skeletons in the closet this

0:34:43 Matt: Are you hiding? Like, what's the cover up here? It's some hawks we have to account for.

0:34:48 Thomas: Isn't even qualified for falconry and now he's gonna be in charge of our health I

0:34:53 Matt: You know his falcons aren't vaccinated. So, you know, it's got to be a whole other problem.

0:34:56 Thomas: Bet they are birds are smart they're like I'm not listening to this idiot like I'm we're gonna go we're birds we'll go get vaccinated on our own we can fly

0:35:03 Matt: I got to run you by a quick falconry question because I know how much you love multiple choice questions.

0:35:08 Thomas: Is from the exam oh

0:35:10 Matt: Is from the exam I have picked. For our new feature, Thomas takes the bird exam. Obviously, it's going to be a recurring feature. We'll be doing this every week. I wanted to make sure this was a pop quiz because I didn't want to give you the chance to learn any of these words. There's a bunch of great words in here.

0:35:23 Thomas: Well you greatly overestimate my desire to actually do any sort of studying or research.

0:35:30 Matt: All right. Well, let's just go in. Let's do it. We're doing it live. 52, hacking. You think you know what hacking is, but you don't. Hacking is a process whereby, A, young accipiters or red -tailed hawks are allowed to get fully in a large chamber.

0:35:48 Thomas: What?

0:35:50 Matt: So many words there. Young excipitors or red -tailed hawks are allowed to get fully summed in a larger chamber. B, young raptors are allowed full -flight freedom till they begin to kill for themselves. What a great sport. Haggards and passage birds are quickly manned. Haggards and message birds. These are words. I recognize them as words. But D, none of the above. And so it's really three.

0:36:19 Thomas: Okay, let's see. Well, what do you mean? It could be none of the above. What are you talking about? I was trying to give this away I hacking I'm gonna say c it's

0:36:26 Matt: That's true. It could be none of them. That's right. We can't rule that out. Haggards and passage birds are quickly manned. I won't make you explain what that means, because I know you know what it means.

0:36:37 Thomas: Of course yeah well we should explain for the audience.

0:36:42 Matt: I don't seem to have that in my notes, but we're going to have to get a falconry expert for this one. But it turns out, I do know what the answer is.

0:36:45 Thomas: Don't know what the answer is oh okay what

0:36:48 Matt: The answer is B. Young raptors are allowed full flight freedom until they begin to kill for themselves.

0:36:48 Thomas: Is it man oh shit I didn't do my second thomas's second chance falcon firm that's

0:36:58 Matt: Well, the problem is when you're dealing with falcons, you only get one chance because you're dead. The answer is that wild hacking gives ISCs, that is E -Y -A -S -E -S, those are fledgling birds. I had to look that up. So many new words. Gives them exercise and training that mimics the experience in flying that they would get in the wild. So hacking, when you take them some full flight freedom to just kind of practice before they start getting their kills.

0:37:04 Thomas: Fair huh what a world of knowledge that I don't we don't know like that is I mean most things I feel like I know a couple things about like just an ADHD thing like I've just heard and absorbed something random I don't know any of that crap like I yeah I have this is a world that is as as I'm concerned someone created this all today like this may not have ever existed until you said it no

0:37:27 Matt: Know, that's how I felt. Yeah, it's nuts. Mean, haggars and passage birds are quickly manned. It does not even seem like a sentence to me. I don't even know where the verbs are.

0:37:53 Matt: I will say it does not seem that you're qualified to be our Health and Human Services Secretary. Well, you can't pass the BERT exam. What kind of HHS Secretariat?

0:37:58 Thomas: Me wait what yeah but at least I didn't forge my address I didn'T lie about where I live I'm just as qualified for falconry as rfk jr I think right now so I to the panel of falcons who are now considering my application they're just like I yeah

0:38:04 Matt: That's true. Make a point there. Looks pretty hard to become a Falconer, but I don't want to do it either.

0:38:21 Thomas: One question involved 47 words I've never heard of so yeah does seem hard well

0:38:25 Matt: Plus, you have to have a Falcon.

0:38:28 Thomas: That's the easiest step I already have that

0:38:29 Matt: Kind of suggesting that his Falcons might still live in New York at that address, but he doesn't. They don't wanna live in the same time zone as RFK. I get it, I get it.

0:38:36 Thomas: Yeah they're like we uh yeah we're uh I've been sleeping on the falcon couch if you know what I mean well yeah

0:38:43 Matt: And just to really make the point, RFK definitely lives in California and has for at at least 10 years. There's no question about that. And that's the court's finding.

0:38:50 Thomas: His wife who I cannot believe hasn't divorced him lives in california right cheryl hines so like speaking of cheryll hines please just just what what is the upside upside to this marriage? Like, what is the, what are getting out of it? What's the positive there? I don't, I don'T know. Maybe she sucks. I think she does suck. You'd have to suck. I'm sorry. You'd Have to suck to be married to this guy still right now. But like, if not, what Are you, What Are you doing? What'S the upside? Oh my God. Just spit up my Falcon.

0:39:14 Matt: And I saying the same thing that Olivia Nuzzi saw. I don't know. I really don't. But yeah, I know. Yeah . That's today's footnote, some Byrd law, some election law, and of course, some RFK Jr., who I'm sure will be an endless source of OA material for many years to come that's

0:39:33 Thomas: Right matt well uh us here at that backup beeper that's never stopping that's our new podcast it's just a backup I'm just gonna put up podcasts they're just backup beepers all day because why because why ever turn that off why ever stop doing what you're doing driver just do that forever what just how much how much earth is there left for you to back up you must surely have reached the end of the earth by now from what, or are you just sitting there doing nothing? Incredible. Anyway, from, from us here.

0:39:59 Matt: You do pretty pretty well in Boston. I got to say with that kind of a rant, that's a very Boston rant you just gave us.

0:40:05 Thomas: I, I'm, I I'm too cowardly. I ran into my podcast and then, uh, you know, in, in although no, I will say if someone has a backup Bieber going for that long, I do reach a level of like, I can't, this can't happen. I go out the window. This can't happened. Whatever this is, there's no no situation that could justify this. I would, I would maybe do that.

0:40:28 Matt: You're backing up for five miles, apparently.

0:40:31 Thomas: There's no, yeah, there's anyway, that's going to go figure that all out and, uh, enjoyable good news episode, truly good news. Um, my spirits are lifted. I feel ready and willing to fight a guy who's backing up forever. Thanks so much for listening.

0:40:48 Matt: We can all agree.

0:40:49 Thomas: We'll be recording a lot awful movies. That is a lot Plotawful Creeps Books. I can't wait because it turned our Matt Gaetz book reading from, oh my God, this guy's going to be attorney general to let's laugh at this guy who's now out of everything possibly.

0:41:06 Matt: This weird loser that, yeah, good times. Got a great one on Monday too. And then some more continuing the good news and things we can do and practical hope. We're going to keep it going here. We're not naive, but we know what to do.

0:41:08 Thomas: Can't Wait. So right. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. Please support the show, patreon.com/law, and we'll see you next time.

0:41:21 Clip: This podcast is a production of Opening Arguments Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved. It is produced and edited by Thomas Smith, who also provided the fabulous intro and outro music used with permission.

0:41:39 Thomas: Online is... Oh, wow, that's loud. We'll wait till...

0:41:42 Matt: We've got to let that go. Ohio, you have... Sorry, is that beeping?

0:41:45 Thomas: Because Yeah, we can. Yeah.

0:41:51 Matt: It's out of control. I don't know what is going on over there.

0:41:51 Thomas: It's pretty loud. Some backup. Yeah

0:41:57 Matt: I didn't even know what loading dock there is. Has been. That is, should fade away in a minute. On. I thought it was done.

0:42:05 Thomas: We That's still going. Yeah well we'll just wait yeah boy that is annoying they

0:42:10 Matt: It's don't know how much backing up you can do in the street, but but that

0:42:13 Thomas: Just park it and leave it in reverse like somehow it's on the whole time but

0:42:17 Matt: Seems like a good guy. And that beeping, it just keeps coming and going.

0:42:18 Thomas: Oh, wow. That's even louder now. Unreal. Yeah.

0:42:23 Matt: Yeah, I think maybe we're done. Maybe. Nope. I'm just going to peek outside. He's bad at backing up is my take on what's going on right now. I think he's, but he's just about in the garage. So this should wrap up any time now.

0:42:40 Thomas: In the garage? What is it?

0:42:44 Matt: The building across me is the home of the Boston Globe. I don't know what else is in there, but apparently there's a loading dock. Okay. I think she's in. I think we're good. So the, oh my, what is, okay.

0:42:58 Matt: How is this possible? I mean, I know this is the busiest time of day, but okay. All right. And that's a point that I've been continuing to make everybody okay I will say boston is an angry city but there is something going on I don't know what's in the water today but

0:43:11 Thomas: So is somebody just just like stuck somewhere from trying to back up and then everyone's mad at them so Yeah, hopefully nothing happened. But I think I still think the backup beeper was the key.

0:43:13 Matt: The Wow. I really hope everybody's okay. Yeah. Let's set it all off.

0:43:27 Thomas: Yeah, it's the catalyst. By the time I edit out all the sirens, it's probably a 20 minute episode. You talked a big talk about how easy it is to do a good new show. And then it's like, well, it's 15 minutes.

0:43:33 Matt: I still beeping but they were all good news stories like unqualified

0:43:45 Thomas: It was. Nothing we can do. But like, what is that? Why would it go on for so long?

0:43:49 Matt: Think we have to avoid the five o 'clock slot I think is that's that's on me do what I can to make sure we don't come up against rush hour here um

0:43:57 Thomas: They sure aren't rushing very much. Just seems to be sitting there with a backup beeper is all that's happening I

0:44:01 Matt: Every delivery in boston is arriving at this building at the same time so that's what happens um it just stopped. There we go just as I was about to hit stop on the recording okay Haggards and passage birds are quickly manned.