WTW62: January Littlejohn, Big Activist

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:03 Clip: What's so scary about the woke mob, how often you just don't see them coming.

0:00:11 Clip: Anywhere you see diversity, equity, and inclusion, you see Marxism, and you see woke principles being pushed.

0:00:19 Clip: Wokeness is a virus more dangerous than any pandemic hands down. The woke monster is here, and it's coming for everything, everything, everything, and everything. Instead of go -go boots, the seductress green M &M will now wear sneakers.

0:00:41 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Where There's Woke. This is episode 62. I'm Thomas. That over there is Lydia, today's or this mini-series' expert. How's it going, Lydia?

0:00:52 Lydia: Going all right I'm about to get real testy up in here yeah

0:00:57 Thomas: This one's bad. This one's real bad. Real, real, real bad, but I don't think this January Littlejohn is on the level.

0:00:59 Lydia: I agree with you let's

0:01:04 Thomas: We'll have to find out more about exactly why and why it was incredibly stupid to present this story the way that John Ronson did in part two here. Let's get over to it after this break that patrons didn't have to hear. All

0:01:16 Lydia: Do it um I am being mindful of how January is approaching all of these interactions. And 100% trust how she phrases anything Because, like, that is, like – that is a clear discrepancy there. If you were trying to be as supportive as you could, etc., etc., if you really trusted your daughter, I have a feeling she probably would have indicated that on her intake and you wouldn't have been in the dark.

0:01:35 Thomas: No fucking kidding yeah also what's what's the stakes here once again they had a meeting and she got to put her her of stuff or they got to but their prep I don't know I think as far as we understand she as she's still um anyway um one might wonder why are we we even hearing from this person? Like has happened here that is so alarming that we even know who this person is? Because right now, even by her own words, boy, even by her OWN telling of the story, which is obviously mostly bullshit, all that's happened is they had a meeting where they got her preferences after she sent an email saying, hey, however they want to handle it. She said, that's fine. What is the stakes here?

0:01:59 Lydia: Now she yeah yeah yeah mm -hmm yeah yeah yeah

0:02:31 Clip: Oh, you mean like, if you want us to not tell your parents, we won't? Correct. They were colluding with children to keep secrets from parents. And how is your relationship avec your daughter this point. It created a huge wedge because she was celebrated for this, where she wasn't celebrated when she was just a normal girl student going to school.

0:02:43 Thomas: Interesting. It created the wedge. Weird. Sorry. Why does that, that why create a wedge between you and your child? Her answer is it created a huge wedge because she was celebrated. What's, I'm sorry. What's the wedge? Is it that you're like resenting that they feel better about themselves now? Is that, is that the wedge because that sure sounds like what the wedge is to me oh scary music my

0:02:53 Lydia: I don't know I yeah self

0:03:07 Clip: What you have to understand is social transitioning is the first step toward medical transitioning. So we were horrified, we were scared, and we felt like we were the only ones not cheering her along this path of self -harm.

0:03:12 Thomas: God self

0:03:22 Clip: January did some digging and she discovered that the school, like schools all over Florida, had been working with a particular group to devise their LGBTQ support plans, a group called Equality Florida. And by 2020, Equality Florida had trained and partnered with 64 out of the 67 counties.

0:03:21 Lydia: -harm yeah yeah

0:03:22 Thomas: -harm wow oh shadowy group huh I

0:03:41 Clip: All had adopted these LGBTQ TTQ guides. Teachers were being trained that parents in this area are a danger to their children.

0:03:41 Thomas: God okay no

0:03:53 Clip: Coming out can literally result in abuse or homelessness.

0:03:53 Thomas: I don'T think that's what it is well it could

0:03:58 Clip: It actually said that in the guide. I was not a danger for my child. I

0:03:58 Lydia: Your parents French crappy.

0:03:58 Thomas: Could yeah that's not for the love of fucking christ I lydia did all the research I'm just listening and it's such obvious bullshit I'm sorry they are teaching them that their parents are dangerous well no the thing you quoted was like hey be aware essentially that this can be a problem they're like yeah we know this is a problem I the trans stuff is apparently scary to january little john she's probably also a homophobe but let's pretend she isn't for the sake of argument wouldn't you see the same thing if it was someone identifying as gay wouldn't wouldn't you want to be like okay I understand hey maybe I'm a super cool parent I would totally understand that my child uh is gay and I'm not gonna you know I'm gonna support them all that stuff but we're in fucking florida you don't think there's some parents who would be like oh fuck no and then abuse their kid like

0:04:03 Lydia: Doesn't matter.

0:04:47 Thomas: Just warning them for that and they'rejustifying that hey if the kid says there's a problem here by the way if you have a good relationship with with your kid, your kid will probably say, Oh no, my, my parents are supportive. Like I could imagine by the way, even were the kid, I don't, it's hard to put myself in, but it is just a, just If I were a kid and I felt like my parents were like, you know, they weren't doing an amazing job, but they were trying. And I was like, all right, they're, they'RE doing their best. I probably would, would be like, Oh yeah, you can still tell them. They're not quite fully there yet, but like, Like, you know, you can still communicate with them. I like I likely I'm just just going by my own intuitions, even if my parents were how January described them, herself, like even if they were like, well, we're kind of letting her handle it. Of I'd We're be like, yeah, no, you didn't. You can communicate to them about this. That's fine. Like, they're not really super supportive, but like they're also, you know, they don't have they're me out of the house. They're not beating

0:05:36 Thomas: Me. Yeah. Yeah, like I would probably answer like, yeah, you can include them, but like they're not super, you supportive. And it sounds like based on everything you read me that like there would probably be an intermediate level of thing there where they're not going to like keep secret. It sounded like the kid could be pretty, you customized with that. Like they could they could really like dictate how they want to do it to the level of detail of like substitute teachers. And so I imagine in January's child could have said that and could have said all that stuff. And then January probably would have been more included. Am I crazy?

0:05:36 Lydia: Not at risk for. Yeah mm hmm. Yeah yeah no I don't think you're crazy and I also want to drill down into this you says she's all about statistics right she she says that you know it's statistically impossible that all of these people could come out as part of the LGBTQ+ spectrum in some fashion. And then here she's saying, you of these things, you know, they're being taught that parents there's potential for harm there, etc. I'm not a danger to my child. It doesn't matter.

0:06:17 Thomas: Impossible. Yeah, I want to make very clear. She is insinuating that the default is to teach them that the parents are a problem. She is definitely saying that and that's fucking bullshit.

0:06:39 Lydia: Which is. So let me tell you specifically from the guide where the support plan was part of. So this is for Leon County specifically, but as she mentioned, Equality Florida, this nonprofit organization, did work with 64 out of 67 counties in Florida to develop these things. A lot of this language is from Equality Florida and the research that they've helped gather. So LGBTQ+ students are more than twice as likely to have attempted suicide as their heterosexual peers. More than 50% of transgender youth report having attempted suicide. Yeah.

0:07:19 Lydia: And, you know, they talk about bullying instances at school. And then specifically, transgender students are four times more likely to live in poverty. Plus students account for 7% of the general population, but they're more than 40% of homeless youth. That is something that is real and scary. And if that is the risk that you take by disclosing to parents, if you don't know that they're going to be supportive and loving, that's just not a that's not acceptable.

0:07:39 Thomas: That's really sad. Yeah. Is the cost to January right here? What is it? What is what is the costs? That's what I want to know. What is the actual fucking cost, you asshole?

0:08:01 Lydia: There are some statistics for you, January.

0:08:05 Clip: How did this get into our school system so fast? So how did it happen? How

0:08:09 Thomas: So fast? Trans people were just invented yesterday. Did it happen so fast?

0:08:14 Clip: Brandon worked full -time at Equality Florida until 2023. Just when he first joined, a decision was made inside the group. If we were going to stop things like Pulse from happening in the future, then we had to go to the source and uproot that hatred and bigotry where it starts. And so in the summer of 2016, Equality Florida launched the Safe and Healthy Schools program. And the goal was working alongside school districts to help reimagine a school system that treats all students with dignity and respect and tells lgbtq students that they are perfect exactly as they are so january literal john says that equality florida's training in schools leads to parents I read brandon the passage from the school guide that says the parents in this area might be a danger to their children

0:08:36 Thomas: To fuck over parents as hard as possible.

0:09:00 Thomas: Oh, cool. We're going to get the other side here.

0:09:01 Clip: Obviously you came from a family where things weren't great with your father but what's the thinking behind it so equality florada doesn't implement policy in schools. Equality Florida makes recommendations and helps work on support resources with schools. Sometimes the student is going to share something with a teacher before they're ready to talk about it with their parents. And so it is incredibly irresponsible for a teacher to take this trusted information and immediately run to the nearest phone, pick it up, call the parent and say, by the way, I think your kid might be gay. I

0:09:31 Thomas: That sounds very reasonable. Sure sounds like what I would have figured out just by listening and having any sort of literacy with any of this stuff. Now, I wonder what John Ronson's response is going to be to this incredibly reasonable claim about like in his mind, I don't know the ordering of the interviews and whatever in his process. But let's assume that he sounds like he's talked to January already at this point in his interviewing process. And he's like, well, what do you say about this? At that point, aren't you like, oh, yeah, no, that makes complete sense. OK, weird. Let's let's hear what he says instead that

0:10:00 Clip: Got so angry is because her child was 13 years old and until just a few weeks earlier, had never had a problem with her gender identity and so on.

0:10:09 Thomas: You know of.

0:10:10 Clip: You know, this was going around her child's friend group. Her nightmare vision was that the next thing she knew, there'd be some medical transitioning going on.

0:10:17 Thomas: What?

0:10:17 Clip: And the school knew about all of this kind of in concert with Equality Florida, but she was oblivious to it all.

0:10:22 Lydia: How?

0:10:23 Clip: Listen, I value - Problem

0:10:23 Thomas: Sorry, I'm sorry. What?

0:10:25 Lydia: It's very offensive.

0:10:27 Thomas: Yeah. Her nightmare vision is that a dragon would come and eat the family.

0:10:27 Lydia: The next thing she knew.

0:10:34 Thomas: Yeah, I'M sorry. All right, okay, you're describing something that's not real. Are we trying to, we're both sides in this, okay? We're both, this is a problem with both sides. Well, on one hand, here's this saint of a person who lost friends in a Pulse nightclub shooting, who is now trying to protect the lives of LGBTQ youth. There's one side of the activists that are, you know, just playing games with these people. The other side, well, it's someone who thinks that if their kid is trans, then the world will end and a doctor will kidnap them and in an unmarked van and then and transition them and cut off their boobs and stuff and just overnight. I mean, it's equal fears on is the thing. Like it's kind of equal fears. On one side, someone was, in uh, a shooting. Made a promise to try to help protect LGBTQ youth. Those are the two sides. Is what is really, really fucking irresponsible about Ronson here. He has just introduced. This is the first time in this episode that I can remember that I think january might have alluded to it slightly earlier but ronson is now bringing in the concept of medical transition now is it anywhere in the guide that you have you have all these materials right have everything we're talking about is

0:11:43 Thomas: There anything in there where it's like and also what we're going to do is we're gonna medically transition your child without telling the parents is there any even talk of medical transit they're not that's not what they're there to do. They're there to support the kid.

0:11:48 Lydia: Not. No. a safe environment for the child. Mm hmm, why

0:11:56 Thomas: I don't think they have anything the fuck to do with like the medical side of this, right?

0:12:01 Lydia: Would they?

0:12:01 Thomas: Yeah. They'd just be like, oh, okay. Well, if

0:12:03 Lydia: They have no legal authority over that at all.

0:12:07 Thomas: The, the closest thing I could see, and this is just pure speculation is maybe there'd be language on like, yeah. If your kid medically transitions, then we're going to like that. There'll be some process that we'll do to like help them along, but there probably isn't even that because it doesn't happen when they're this young, like at all.

0:12:22 Lydia: Well, if there's medication that would need to be administered during school hours, right, it would be treated like any other medication that you would do through the a nurse's office but that's not there it's not happening yeah

0:12:30 Thomas: And and, so, here is Ronson talking to a guy who lost friends in the Pulse nightclub shooting, who is doing saintly work of trying to protect trans youth, and he launches him with this insane, nonsense, fear -mongering statement. Statement. Oh, next she knew there's her fear is next. What is he going to say? And I don't know how this was edited because I feel like he probably had a different response. It'd be hard to imagine that he didn't respond to like that, that, how fucking absurd that was. Or maybe he's trying to be diplomatic. I don'T know. But like if were I him, I'd be like, sorry, medical transition. No one's going to medically transition your fucking kid. Anyway, I forget. Well, let's see what he says here oh

0:13:12 Lydia: Well you move on one more little pin I want to stick in here to John Ronson when he says you know this was going around her child's friend group hmm that sounds like something okay

0:13:25 Clip: On. You know this was going around to her child friend group, her nightmare vision was that the next thing she knew, there'd be some medical transitioning going on. And the school knew about all of this kind of in concert with Equality Florida, but she was oblivious to it all. Listen, I value the voice of a concerned parent, of course. Unfortunately, there is a concerted right -wing effort right now to paint transgender people as contagious, as a virus in society. And this idea that one day someone walks into your kid's classroom or follows them on TikTok talk, convinces them to become trans, and the next day they're walking into a plastic surgeon and saying, I think I'll take the double mastectomy today. That is not how any of that happens.

0:14:07 Clip: The truth is, in 2020 20 in Florida, when it came to gender reassignment surgery for minors, doctors followed the guidelines of the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Medical Association, both of which suggested that doctors affirm and work with each child on an individual, tailored basis, quote, considering the risks and benefits to each patient's unique circumstances, while making every effort to be aware of the doctor's own biases. But that's not the case in Florida anymore, for reasons you'll discover. On

0:14:05 Thomas: Hey I would like to look at the flow of logic of what has happened here at you've got a quote -unquote concerned parent and she is very worried about a meeting that happened without her even though she expressly consented to it and by the way what happened as a result of that meeting fucking nothing nothing bad like what what bad thing happen. Well, now there's a wedge because my daughter is having their gender affirmed and that's somehow bad. I don't like that's a ledge. What is the wedge?

0:14:45 Lydia: When I said that it was okay for them to express that gender at school.

0:15:10 Thomas: What is the fucking wedge other than when you're creating? That's all I like. There might be a wedge. The wedge might be, oh, I thought that they wouldn't affirm gender and I could continue to like, know, just tell my child that she's imagining it. And now like the child is, um, their gender affirmed and is doing better. So that's going to complicate my plan of not accepting their gender identity. That's, I'm sorry, that's not the school creating wedge. That'S you. So now Ronson in effort to uncover what's behind all this and the connections and what's going on, Ronson has said, ah, now remember that person from the beginning of the show, they are responsible because they're part of a group that's trying to save trans kids' lives, and so just recapping, there is nothing in there about medical transition, there's absolutely nothing about any part of this process ever at all that would affect the child and the the parents' decision and process of medically transitioning? Nothing. That's not how school works. Like what other part of school is it like, well, I didn't want to get this medical procedure aside from vaccines. Jeez, I guess there's that. But like what, yeah,

0:16:18 Lydia: Checks.

0:16:19 Thomas: What other parts of school is going to be like, they decided to do a whole plastic surgery procedure without my, that's just not how, school works.

0:16:26 Lydia: An appendectomy.

0:16:27 Thomas: Yeah. And he brings that in and asks it to the guy who's like, yeah, this is kind of fucking bullshit in so many words. Then his follow, his God voice follow up is

0:16:36 Clip: Day someone walks into your kid's classroom or follows them on TikTok, convinces them to become trans, and the next day they're walking into a plastic surgeon and saying, I think I'll take the double mastectomy today. That is not how any of that happens.

0:16:46 Thomas: It's not how it works. Here's the, here's The Follow -Up that he does do.

0:16:50 Clip: The truth is, in 20 -20 in Florida when it came to gender reassignment surgery for minors, Doctors followed the guidelines of the American Academy of Paediatrics and the American Medical Association, both of which suggested that doctors affirm and work with each child on an individual, tailored basis, quote, considering the risks and benefits to each patient's unique circumstances while making every effort to be aware of the doctor's own biases. That's not the case in Florida anymore, for reasons you'll discover.

0:16:52 Thomas: Truth is, what

0:17:21 Lydia: He doesn't say Brandon's right. There there is no medical transitioning happening at schools. It's the truth is doctors are expected to be affirming and affirmation can be a whole host of things. It doesn't necessarily mean conducting surgery to align your body with the gender you identify with. There's a whole other set of things that can happen.

0:17:26 Thomas: He says, the truth is, yeah, yeah. Is how it's presented. I strongly, strongly believe that rhetorically what he has done here is he has set set Brandon out. He set that up and said, look, this is just not how it happens. And he says, the truth is that doctors follow the guidelines. And I think the very clear implication is because the guidelines are to affirm. And that's what Brandon's guidelines, what Equality Florida's guidelines are, too, linking it together. Oh he's saying there's no this isn't how it happens but his equality florida's guidelines are about affirmation doctor's guidelines are bad affirmation so the implication is that actually brian brandon wasn't lying to me and they are like medically transitioning your kid like isn't that the clear like of the logic

0:18:30 Lydia: Think it could be interpreted that way. Yeah,

0:18:33 Thomas: What are the actual stats on medical transition do we know no the other thing says they follow the guideline like essentially what he says is experts follow the experts here'stheexperts recommendation here'stheexperts medical recommendation and at the time they followtheexpers is there some reason that that's not a good idea is there some reason what is the implication it's unclear it shouldn't be unclear I admit maybe the other interpretation is that he's actually confirming what Brandon's saying, but that doesn't really strike me as the tone and the flow of the logic of the conversation.

0:19:07 Lydia: Could have used some different words there to make that that clear?

0:19:09 Thomas: Yeah, make it clear which is correct on there. And now he says they no longer follow the medical recommendations. They are no longer using expert medical recommendations make this decision as a result of all this. So which side maybe is in the right then? If What we're saying is after January Littlejohn making a huge deal about this, they're no longer using medical fucking recommendations from the experts. They're doing something other than that. I feel like you could emphasize that a little bit.

0:19:39 Lydia: So to put this into perspective a little bit, Reuters put together data to demonstrate that diagnoses of among youth has grown. In this in the United States, patients ages 6 to 17, new diagnoses came in at 42,167. Now, the number of patients that initiated puberty blocker treatment, which is that first step generally with medical transition in 1,390 out of 42,167. I mean, like if you equated new diagnoses and they made that decision within that year. Yeah. And out of the entire country.

0:20:14 Thomas: In the whole country. One thousand kids in the entire country. We not think that that's probably legit? Like, I mean, that's such a tiny, tiny. Tiny, keep in mind, I don't know even how many people, you know, there we've talked about like the ways people can be born with, you Know, there's all kinds of ways people can be borne, intersex uh, kind of all that stuff, like setting aside, like, Oh, this new identifying as something. I mean, there are people where they're born intersex. And I know that they have to like, I make a decision at the time of birth. And it's like a of thousand thousand kids in the whole country in a given, what is that? A given year?

0:21:00 Thomas: Like, that's nothing. What the fuck are we talking about? For all, I'm just saying, like, who knows what that, if we were talking to a million kids, like okay, yeah, that would be concerning. I'd be like, what, a million? That's a, a thousand? That's fucking nothing in the whole country?

0:20:59 Lydia: And then let's take it to January's extreme nightmare, right? Top surgeries. Patients ages 13 to 17, that was puberty blockers.

0:21:23 Thomas: Because, I mean, I don't know. I'm sorry, that was only puberty blockers

0:21:26 Lydia: Yes. We go to top surgeries for patients ages 13 to 17 undergoing mastectomy that had a gender dysphoria diagnosis, in 2021, it was 282 in the whole country. It is uncommon in patients under age 18. Some children's hospitals and gender clinics don't even offer surgery to minors. They require that be an adult before deciding on procedures like that. And then if if you look at genital surgeries, there's an analysis of insurance claims to kind of identify how many within a given year. This doesn't have have a number tied to 2021 itself. But from 2019 to 2021, patients ages 13 to 17, there were 56 genital surgeries over the course of three years.

0:22:17 Thomas: Yeah, who knows what those circumstances are?

0:22:20 Lydia: Well, and I think that's the other interesting thing, too, is that, you know, you have folks that have overdeveloped breast tissue that identify as men so you have gynecomastia like that's top surgery and that's incredibly gender affirming for that individual

0:22:29 Thomas: Yeah. That's a good point. That's a great point. One in the January Little John camp would possibly ever argue with that. That's irreversible, though.

0:22:40 Lydia: I a friend who had it and had top surgery

0:22:42 Thomas: I remember somebody in school. I remember seeing a guy in school in like basketball camp and very confused because I was only in like, I think seventh grade. I was like, kind of looks like he has boobs a little bit. And yeah, no one in January's camp would ever, ever argue with the idea that that like, male identifying person would like, yeah, I want this affirms my gender to get these what kind of look like boobs removed.

0:23:04 Lydia: I'm uncomfortable in my body this way

0:23:06 Thomas: But that's permanent. It's a permanent decision. How could he know? Maybe want those when he ages into it. How could you make that decision? Decision.

0:23:14 Lydia: Because they're cis, it doesn't matter. Yeah.

0:23:16 Thomas: Exactly. And, and to that point, with um, these numbers, like, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it like, maybe it's mostly that, like, cause I really just don't think this happens much. They don't, really they let kids do this, you know?

0:23:28 Lydia: Yeah.

0:23:28 Thomas: Like, like if the parents didn't want to, who the fuck's paying for it? What do you think? All of a sudden medical care is just free now in this country. Like we all know how hard it is to get proper medical care at any time for anything but if you're a kid who wants to be trans oh yeah we'll just do it for free just but plastic surgery by the way yeah yeah exactly it's almost like this is a fucking moral panic that you should not be both sidesing god unbelievable okay where does this fucking nonsense go from here has

0:23:43 Lydia: Planned Parenthood doesn't do this. Yeah.

0:23:59 Clip: After the altercation with the school, January went public. She gave speeches and interviews. Sometimes it has to be said, leaving out an important fact. As the school district later told CNN, January had, quote, clearly instructed school staff via email to allow the child to take the lead on this and to do whatever you think is best. It's difficult for me to watch her use her story as a bludgeon against our community while she often fails to mention that she told the school district to go ahead and trust the child on how they should be respected in school. But January says she would never have said those things to the school if she knew where it would lead. I knew nothing

0:24:07 Thomas: To be said who what fuck's

0:24:40 Clip: About support plans or guides, so I don't know how it's even possible for me to consent to something I did not even know existed. In her speeches, January denounced groups like Equality Florida for their impact on schools. They have infiltrated the classrooms classrooms, and they are usurping parental authority. Putting guardrails in place for what is appropriate in a classroom is absolutely necessary under these situations. She sued the school too, but lost and is now appealing. And she contacted Casey DeSantis, the wife of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. DeSantas knew that lockdown meant that parents could suddenly see into their children's classrooms, some of them didn't like what they saw and he was tapping into that unease. He declared 2022 the year of the parent. As he began lining himself up to enter the race for president, he started telling January's story a lot, often embellishing the details. We had a mother from Leon County and her daughter was going to school. Some of the people at school decided that her daughter was really a boy and wanted to identify as a boy. So they changed her name, they changed her quote pronouns. They did these things without telling the mother. But the school didn't change her name. Nor,

0:24:57 Thomas: Sake yeah

0:25:54 Clip: As DeSantis claimed in other speeches, did they have her dressed like a boy. Some people in the school had decided that the daughter was really a boy and not a girl. So they changed the girl's name to a boy's name, had her dressed like a girl and doing all this stuff without telling her mother. I've watched videos of Ron DeSantis where he mentions your story. He does does seem to exaggerate it and twist it in the speeches.

0:26:08 Thomas: I that oh

0:26:18 Clip: So for instance, they didn't have her dressed like a boy. So much emphasis has been placed on that. The gaslighting I have experienced has been unreal.

0:26:17 Thomas: Yeah just yeah it's a little bit exaggeration what sorry

0:26:26 Clip: There are people that would rather focus on a detail like that than the actual evaluation that occurred with my daughter. And that is very frustrating to me.

0:26:27 Thomas: What what what oh

0:26:34 Lydia: We got to stop. Very frustrating to me, January, because Oh my God. She is insane to me. She says, I'm just a mother concerned about my kid. And then when something like this comes up where her child is being used as a political pawn to accomplish a conservative agenda at the state level with lies, with actual lies, it's gaslighting to point that out.

0:26:35 Thomas: My god unbelievable with lies I'm sorry a detail a detail oh just just details. The actual story is you authorize them to do this. And by the way, they had a meet. What fucking, what happened? They had a meeting. That's it.

0:27:17 Lydia: She's she is a political operative at this point. Like, I do not think she is. A good parent, honestly, the way that she does not. Well, yeah. But this specifically, how would you not say like, hey, don't use my kid that way? That's not how it happened.

0:27:26 Thomas: To say the least.

0:27:35 Lydia: That's inappropriate.

0:27:34 Thomas: Yeah. Well, yeah, I'm sorry. I want to line up the two stories because let's look at the gaslighting and what the, what the meaningless kind of detail is. So, the story is, she, your child, told the school they wanted to identify as non -disciplinary, and told you, by the way, you were in on that somewhat, and you wrote an email authorizing them to deal with that however they wanted, and the school to take the lead on it. We've already heard that to death and then when they did that they had a meeting and in the meeting your child expressed some preferences that they probably wrote down on a fucking piece of paper and filed or whatever now what else happened if we fucking know at this point if what happened next was that uh contrary to my child's will she was put in a male locker room and all the it was all whipped it out and like she if anything at all happened you know we would hear about it I'm struggling struggling to even figure out what the harm is by their telling of it what no point did john think to ask hey like what was the like harm though like something because it sounds for one she said that now her child is no longer identifies as trans um I don'T fucking take her word for anything but again just

0:28:44 Thomas: Even from her perspective in talking about the harm well what was the harm nothing happened there's no surgery there's Noam medical whatever and now your kid is not even trans apparently so what was harm what was fucking harm and so that's the real story and then the lie that's being told is some people the government the governor of your fucking state who's not just on a state um of prominence is in national prominence yeah national province is telling a version of your story that is so fucking significantly changed that it's some people at the school decided your child was a boy when when they were actually a girl they one day hey we had a meeting and they called her into the office hey come in here whoever your name is um of nothing we've decided you're a boy how no fucking idea

0:29:07 Lydia: And running for president eventually. Yeah. Here's

0:29:30 Thomas: No idea yep here's your new name you will have these pronouns protein there's there's no option here there's you don't get to decide this is how it goes and don't tell your parents because your parents are evil and they're gonna harm you and that's that's the version and then when confronted with this by john in what little confrontation he does she says oh they would rather focus on a a little detail on a little detail I'm sorry a little detail the difference between my child transitioned versus the school decided to transition her against her and my will that's a little detail that's

0:29:31 Lydia: Your new name. Yeah. Yeah.

0:30:04 Thomas: Gaslighting me absurd how could you tell this with a straight face john oh

0:30:10 Lydia: Also like this really subtle anti -trans, like not believing trans people exist because her daughter never came out as a boy. Her daughter came out als non -binary. So now, like, not only is Ron DeSantis saying like literal lies, like that's also a lie. And you understood that there could exist in the world transgender people, maybe you didn't see it for your kid. But you understood and were supportive of that for the general public, you would have corrected that and said, like, well, that's not actually correct there. You know, my child never came out as a boy. They came out as non -binary. And here she just elides over all of that.

0:30:24 Thomas: Good point right right well that is a great point I

0:30:51 Lydia: And it just drives me crazy. It just drives my crazy. She's very clearly anti -trans.

0:30:55 Thomas: She's a trans anti -trans bigot activist of course I want to ask jon what he thinks jon do you think that trans kids exist I want Because I don't know, based on your both sides in here, which is really, really favoring one fucking anti -trans, anti -queer, by the way, Nazi -esque when you look at the rest of their platform side, you're very much giving them a seat here in your coverage. Coverage do you think that trans kids exist because if you do then this process isn't right john that trans kits are real what process would be correct like I actually think that's it's important because what I worry that is happening here, and I want to tell you, maybe I should have said this at the outset. Very much worry, and this is speculation. I want to make very clear. This is my worry. I worry. That John is anti -trans and is using this story to express skepticism of things that in my opinion, he shouldn't be expressing skepticism about. Because I don't understand how you would tell this story this perspective any other way. I really don't understanding how you'd tell it this way. If you were not anti -trans, let's assume you still want to both sides it. Okay, both sides. Wouldn't you ask January, hey, okay, Hey, January, your kid, okay. We'll go with you. We'll take your word for it. They weren't actually trans. January, you recognize there are trans kids, right? Do you think there are trans kids or not? Does he ever ask her that? January, do you think There Is Such a Thing as Trans People?

0:32:39 Lydia: He never asks her.

0:32:39 Thomas: Not? Why Why wouldn't you ask her that? Wouldn't important? Because right now what you're doing is you're giving her cover. You're giving her cover to speak as a concerned parent. She's a concerned parent. Who just, she's just concerned about how fast this process, maybe the process is a little too fast. Think I it's very important to know as a listener, if she's coming from that perspective or a perspective up, trans people actually don't fucking exist. So no process acceptable is to me. Important. But as we go through the more I learn I'm curious where john's coming from here and as of now um worried about that

0:33:14 Clip: We've got an all -star cast of folks here that are joining us. January Littlejohn, who's a parent from Leon County, who is going to speak. January got a wish. It is now Florida law that a student's gender identity should be disclosed to parents if the school is making accommodations for it, like allowing the child to use a different bathroom. And the Don't Say Gay bill itself has created some startling ripples. A fifth -grade teacher in Florida says she is under investigation after she showed her students Strange World, which is a 2022 animated Disney film that features a character who is both biracial and gay. Since last year, the district and school board have banned or restricted more than a dozen books and are currently evaluating roughly 200 more. One of those, quote, inappropriate books is And Tango Makes Three, a picture book based on the true story of two male penguins at the Central Park Zoo who raised a chick together. Michelangelo's classic David statue is the center of controversy in a Florida classroom. A private school principal in Florida resigned over it. According to the Tallahassee Democrat, she was ousted by angry parents after the Renaissance masterpiece was shown to sixth graders at Tallahassie Classical School.

0:34:21 Clip: A lot of people are looking at what's happening in Florida and thinking, wow, he's really using stories like yours to sort of hammer people with the heavy hand of government. I don't know any parent that has that viewpoint. I don'T have experience with any of the things that you're asking me, frankly, I really am just commenting this as a mom.

0:34:19 Thomas: Fucking christ yeah

0:34:40 Clip: But really, January is a mother and an activist.

0:34:27 Thomas: What you don't what my I want to be very fair here I don't want to say and it wouldn't be fair to say Ronson is like endorsing all of this anti -trans don't say gay stuff that would not be there's no way like contextually there's I do not think that it would be fair to say that he's doing that but it sure doesn't seem like he's properly accounting for what's happening here or is covering it in the most truthful way that I think you should which is hey when it comes to these activists here's one side that has used a made up version of a story a made up versionof a story about one trans kid who nothing happened to to pass the don't say gay bill and has all these and to his credit he's covering all these ridiculous knock -on effects and it would not be appropriate to read him as of saying like, yeah, this is fine. No, he's covering these. He's talking about these things, the statue of David, because they are absurd and they're, I mean, downright scary and how ignorant and backward it is to be firing teachers for stuff like that. Does it feel like he properly accounts for how the root of this is a bullshit fake story about one trans kid who nothing happened to? Does it really feel like that proper weight is being given? He asked her about it and she's like, look, I don't know, man. All I did was stand behind the governor as he signed the don't say gay bill. I'm just a parent.

0:36:00 Lydia: And not just a parent. She is an activist and Ronson acknowledges that that she's an activist, but he doesn't really get into what kind of activist. She's a affiliated, senior fellow with Do No Harm. No Harm is Stanley Goldfarb's organization, an association of medical professionals that had a problem with DEI in the medical industry. They specifically say on their website, we are a national association of clinical professionals combating the attack on our health care system from woke activists. So they're anti anti -trans. Those are their two platforms. And she's a senior fellow on the anti -trans project, I guess, of Do No Harm.

0:36:27 Thomas: Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah. To be clear, she wasn't that before this though. It's not like she, oh, of course.

0:36:50 Lydia: Before her experience, but she was before John Ronson interviewed her.

0:36:56 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, of course, of

0:36:57 Lydia: And And she regularly gives speeches. We'll play a little bit from one in a bit. And her Twitter, her Twitter or her Facebook, it's all just a garbage fire. It's so bad. She is regularly retweeting libs of TikTok and wokeness. Last I week or so. She was retweeteing Gays Against Groomers and favorite person, James Lindsay. Um she she was helping promote just is like it was just a little side thing um helping promote his new book a couple months ago and she wrote I adore at conceptual james like a brother and proud to call him a friend aside from my husband he's the most brilliant man I know not only does james know what a woman is but he's trying to save our country from marxism them yeah

0:37:45 Thomas: Well, geez, what a genius. Only a 200 IQ could know what a a woman is. God.

0:37:52 Lydia: And recently he I just mentioned this to you earlier he tweeted this ridiculous thread that just like you scroll and scroll and it's nonsense and she retweeted it like she's one of his biggest fans um there you go yeah uh is certainly not just a concerned mom. Was at the time that this occurred, but then she decided to use it and create space for her in these political places. And,

0:38:25 Thomas: We're going to have to pause there for part two. My hands are, I wish we didn't have to, you know, I, if I had my way, it would all be in one convenient long episode at patreon .com slash where there's, oh wait, it is. Oh, amazing. That's awesome. So we We already did that, but non -patrons, you're going to have to wait for part three. And in part three, next time on Where There's Woke, yeah, is

0:38:44 Lydia: My god oh my God you guys you thought this was bad there is some real obvious stuff that I found that did not take me long at all but john ronson did he talk about it you're gonna have to find out the answer is no

0:39:01 Thomas: You open up BBC, is it just a couple of mice that do all the like research and fact checking? And it's not actually like, oh crap, darn it, it's just these mice. That's why none of this easy stuff was found. Maybe that's the problem. Tune in for part 3. I don't think this January Little John is on the level.

0:39:07 Lydia: It's gotta be it's gonna be